Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Police follow trail of blood, find gorgeous mom bludgeoned dead with office tape gun

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Police follow trail of blood, find gorgeous mom bludgeoned dead with office tape gun · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. Yes man, my uncle on France.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'nial Fishers, Scientistic and I just walked in her office
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and I think somebody had killed somebody upstairs in her office. Okay,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: what makes you think somebody kills him about? He's laying
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: there on the ground covered up and there's blood all
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: over up the floor in the office. Okay, So what's
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the address there? Seventy three eighty three and fire drive. Okay,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: if it's somebody that worked there, yeah, it looks like
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: her name is Michelle Marketby. She usually comes in early
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: on Mondays and they got her like her whole body's
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: covered with plastic and that you can't see her head
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: or anything and obviously's dead, right, yes, sir, yes man? Okank?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: What to name? Yes for us? Okay, Hello, somebody was
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: in there? But time did you get in? Faber' clarkley
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: If people come in usually Michelle on Mondays, get your
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: seven o'clock I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. What happened to Michelle might
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: be a gorgeous young mother of two found dead at
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the laboratory where she worked. The mystery intensifies might be
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: leaving behind two little girls ages seven and ten. Joining
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  Speaker 1: me an all star panel. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: jacksonvill State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: on Amazon rightnown California psycho Alice, doctor Bethany Marshall, judge,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: lawyer anchor. You can find her at asked You, Wilcot
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: dot com and Crime online dot com. Investigative reporter Robin Willinski,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the author of Beautiful Life CSI behind the Casey Anthony
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Trial Robert Willinski. They find this young mom of two
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: covered in blood, in a pool of blood at her workplace.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: My very first question is where was her husband. Her
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: husband is at home with the girls. Mommy is at
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: work where she is the HR human resources manager at
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Thermo Fisher Scientific Nancy. This is a company. She's the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: HR manager a lot of men that work there. She
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  Speaker 1: does the payroll and she organizes oral the personnel matters.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: She is not involved in the science or the packing
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: at the company. So in HR you get a lot
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of enemies. We all know that. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: LA psycho analyst, HR, the dreaded to syllables in every corporation,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you know, human resources. When they come down the hall,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: everybody look busy and starts smiling because everything is awesome.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Everything is cool when you're part of a team. That's
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: what happens when HR strolls in. So Miss Mogby Michelle
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: sixteen years in HR at Thermophisher Scientific, a biotech company HR.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Why does everybody hate HR so much? HR is the
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  Speaker 1: person to whom anybody who has a dispute with another
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: employee reports their dissatisfaction. HR is like mommy in a
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  Speaker 1: big dysfunctional work family. HR knows where all the body's buried,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: knows all the secrets. HR, the person who works in HR,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: can really get you in trouble if she's not on
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: your side. So I actually have a few patients who
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: are in HR, and they really struggle with mental health
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: issues because they're always reprimanding people. They're the person that
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: if somebody's fired, they prepare the final paperwork. They have
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to sit in the room, they have to escort the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: person to you know, pack up their belongings before they
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: leave the building. They take the key card and the keys.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: It's a very stressful position for the person in HR.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And also they're very alienated from people in the company
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: because everybody's afraid of those Well, I was about to say,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: it's not that they're bad people. Everyone's afraid of them.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: You see HR heading toward you, you're not afraid. You
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: don't think they're gonna say, hey, you want to go
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: get a cup of coffee? Oh no, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: no no. Can breathe a sigh relief when they keep
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: on walking. But you know that's interesting. Somebody way up
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: on high decides to fire hatchet job somebody, and then
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: it's on HR to do the deed. And you're right,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: they know where all the bodies are buried than everybody's secrets.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, well, let's just take for example
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: in the recent past all the complaints sex harassment. HR
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: has probably been knowing about those for years, and they
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: will probably reprimand the person, and they probably fuss it
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: in the person. They'll probably make them take leave or
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  Speaker 1: make them go to some kind of a sensitivity class,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and then they walk buy in the hall they're like mhmm,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, how can you even look at people when
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  Speaker 1: you know all the stuff about them? And the HR
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  Speaker 1: employees can't tell they're at least not supposed to tell
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: what they know, so they carry it around with them.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Michelle Motby in that position, she's found in a pool
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  Speaker 1: of blood. What else can we learn from the nine
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  Speaker 1: one one call? Yesterday? No, No, nobody was yesterday at all. Okay,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: so this morning, and so the last time somebody would
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: have been there would have been last Friday, Friday, if
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: they would have left her on eight o'clock at night. Okay,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: so it looks like a homicide, correct, yes, ma'am. Okay,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: was that her office? No? You well, it's no. She's
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: on the outside. We have a mezzanine. Well, the blood
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  Speaker 1: is right by her office door. It looks like she
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: never got in her office. She didn't, so she couldn't
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  Speaker 1: have jumped, No, ma'am. Yeah, she's looking lay in place,
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  Speaker 1: faced on her hands. Okay. I don't want anybody to
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  Speaker 1: pack anything. Any guys, just opened the door time behind
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  Speaker 1: the back. I think she's like I said, and I
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: had somebody covered her body with plastic or something. Okay,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: And you said there's blood outside the office door, Yes, ma'am,
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  Speaker 1: it's a big pile of blood. Is there any weapons
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  Speaker 1: laying around that you can see? No, ma'am oh. When
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you have the victim with her hands tied behind their back,
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  Speaker 1: and remember, this is just not a story. This is
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this beautiful young mom with two little girls, making her
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: living in an HR division of a biotech company, never
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  Speaker 1: misses work, steadfast, comes home to her children, no drama,
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  Speaker 1: no running around, no secret affairs, no embezzling, nothing like this,
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  Speaker 1: and she ends up dead. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, everything changed when I heard the words
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: her hands were tied behind her back. That changes who
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  Speaker 1: the killer is. Yeah, it does. It changes the rattling
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  Speaker 1: home of the way you look at this thing, and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you know what would be the purpose behind binding this
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: poor woman in her place of business. One of the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: things that you think about is potentially there's some kind
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: of gain, some kind of robbery that's in progress at
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that point in tom where you're trying to restrain her
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to keep her from thwarting your efforts to do what
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you have to do as a perpetrator. It really kicks
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it up to a different level. Nancy. The aspect of
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Michelle Martby's hands being tied behind her back before she
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: was murdered does lead cops into an entirely different direction.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: What more can we learn from that nine one one call?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I want you to stay on the file with me. Okay.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: How many other office people are there? Now? There's a maintenanceening,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: a cleaning man. He's the one with me when we
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: found her, okay, because he's seen the blood. And then
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I went in an orman's bathroom and immense bathroom nose
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: and there and we see more blood. It was by
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the door leading to the measaninge when I opened up
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: the meazanie and I looked at her right and now
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: she's leaning. Okay, you two are the I two that
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: had been up there, a correct Okay, whatever you do,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: like I said, don't let anybody else go up there.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Never keep everybody from going up there. And her other
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: acco every money, they'll have to walk past you. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: there is. It's there's another stirwell, okay, can you send us.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Can you send that man it's man maybe to keep
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: them keep anybody from going upstairs. Sure, yeah, okay, but
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: sure yeah, Bobby, And make sure nobody thumbs up the
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  Speaker 1: stairs by the lobby. You go up here and in
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the lobbies, and just don't letting nobody up the stairs
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  Speaker 1: this mezzanine. Mezzanine you said, it's an outside mezzanine. No, No,
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  Speaker 1: it's an inside inside. Yes. And she's been having any
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: trouble at work with anyone? No, nothing, I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: No man not giving any calls or hadn't said anything
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: about anything. No. And we were looking for people, other victims,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator, or any obvious signs of evidence. Okay, when
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: you walked in the hallway, did you see at what
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you said? You saw blood on the well? You said
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: in the hallway on the floor in front of the door.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: There was blood going up to the door, and then
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: we just basically followed the blood to see if there
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: was an effect. Blood belonged to another victim, and we
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: went through and then you could see blood looked to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: be small blood stains on the carpet. Okay, do you
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: see any blood on the walls or any on any
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: vertical circuit. I don't remember seeing any. You were hearing
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: what Sheriff's deputy Anthony Lusty describes to the other cops
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: he sees on the scene with me. Robin Willinski. Crime
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Ashley Walcott judge, lawyer, anchor
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: California's psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and forensics expert and author
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan to Ashley Wilcott, you know, we were
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  Speaker 1: talking earlier about the fact that she has been in
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  Speaker 1: HR for all this time and the secrets she must
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: know on the majority of people that work there at
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the biotech company. The fact that her hands were tied
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  Speaker 1: behind her back at another detail to this, a subtle
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: but significant detail. The big pictures she's been murdered, but
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: who would come in with the items necessary to bind
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: someone possibly torture them. That gives a different significance and
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: meaning to the clues on the scene. Ashley, And what's
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: your take on the fact that she had been in
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  Speaker 1: HR for so long? Well, a couple of things. Number One,
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  Speaker 1: the fact that she's been in HR for so long
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: she knows not only all of the individuals names who
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: are for the company, she knows everything about them in
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: terms of their payroll, what they make, if they're working
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: or not, all of those things. That's her job responsibility.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: She has knowledge and a specialized knowledge about everybody in
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  Speaker 1: that company. Second, as to the binding behind the hands
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  Speaker 1: behind her back. Yes, I agree, somebody had to that's
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: pre premeditation right there. Somebody knew what they were doing.
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  Speaker 1: They wanted to incapacitate her. So it's not just a
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  Speaker 1: fit of rage, Oh I'm going to kill this person.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: It's I'm going to incapacitate this person. Perhaps they did
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: that to keep her so she couldn't escape or do
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: anything while they asked her questions, while they who knows
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  Speaker 1: what they did to her before they actually murdered her.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: To me, that is so significant that one little detailed
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to say premeditation plan. Take a listen to share. Stalwarth
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: describes for us the blood evidence once we got into
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the hallway into the office area appeared to be a
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: large spot, red spot at the kind of at the
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: base of a wall, if you will. I would consider
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it to be a fairly decent size amount. And then
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: there was looking further into the office area, one of
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the doors to the offices looked like it had had
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: fresh primarks that were not consistent with any other door
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: in the area. Two areas that I felt like stood
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: out to me to be and this again this is
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: kind of on the fly, but two areas that I
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: felt like We're important to protect you know, I want
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: to talk to you. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. How apropos in
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: this case? What was the cause of death of Michelle Mockbey, Nancy.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: This is a particularly brutal case because at the end
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: of the day, her cause of death was as a
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: result of bludgeoning otherwise known as blunt for trauma. That
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: means that a heavy object was used to literally beat
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: this poor woman to death, Nancy. That's why there is
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: so much. There's just a copious amount of blood. There's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of impacts that are that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: have occurred all over the surface of her body. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's particularly brutal death, you know. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: LA psychoanalyst, a bludgeoning death is somewhat akin to a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: stabbing death or a strangulation, uh, not asphyxiation in the
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: smothering sense, but literature or manual, particularly manual strangulation, in
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that the perpetrator is extremely close to the victim and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: is really face to face inches away from the victim's
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: face at the time. A bludgeoning requires very close contact
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: at the very least arm's length, Nancy. When I hear
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: about this crime, this homicide, that her hands were tied
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: behind her act, there's a certain overkill quality. I feel
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: that whoever did this was quite premeditated, obviously wanted her gone,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: but did not know how to kill her. I mean,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: it could be one of two things, a rage attack,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: or it could be that the person who wanted her
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: gone didn't know how to do it in a better way.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: It's not a very good way to put it, but
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: wanted her gone and could only think a bludgeoning and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: bludgeoning and bludgeoning until she was dead. It just seems
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: so crude to me. A crude form of homicide. Somebody
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: who's not sophisticated, somebody who's at the lower echelons of society,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't think ahead before murdering her to prepare
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a dumb sight for the body. It's just like catches
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: her by surprise and then does it in whatever way
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: comes to his mind in that particular moment. Nancy, go ahead.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: One thing I'd like to add here, with the binding
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of the hands, it kind of reaches out to me
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: someone there literally might be an element of torture involved
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: in this in the fact that you have this individual restrain,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the fact that she struck so many times and so brutally.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: This may have been an attempt to you know, direct
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: anger at her, or it could have been an attempt
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to extract information from her as this thing began to escalate,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and finally she winds up dead. She died of blunt
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: force trauma. That's true, Joe Scott Morgan. But the medical
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: examiner also notes cuts on her wrists. What does that mean?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, this certainly was no suicide, So why would
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the purp have cut her wrists? I don't know, you know,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: it goes back to this other idea of how the
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: depth of these cuts, the orientation of these cuts. Was
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: it meant to inflict further pain on this poor woman,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: or were there strength so tight that maybe in an
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: attempt to restrain her, her wrist were cut. That's a
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: question that I don't know that I can necessarily answer,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: but it certainly leaves a lot to the imagination. Doctor
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst familiarity breeze contempt that much contempt
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that you would bind her cut her wrists, possibly with
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the bindings and bludge in her dead well, I agree
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan that maybe the perpetrator was trying
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to extract information from her. We're talking about the fact
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: that she's in HR. She knows, as Ashley Willcott said,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: she has a very specialized knowledge about everybody in the company.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Whoever did this bound her hands first and then began
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to bludge in her. Was this perpetrator trying to get
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: her to talk? Was this perpetrator trying to find out
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: if she knew that he had committed some kind of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: crime or heard something in the in the company that
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: would get him into trouble and then it just either
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: got out of hand or escalated, or maybe maybe she said, look,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I have something about you in my file. We have
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a file on you, and he felt that if he
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: killed her that he could also get expunge whatever was
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: in his record at the company. Speaking of coworkers and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: familiarity breeding contempt, turns out that Michelle mcby's husband also
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: worked at Thermo Fisher. In fact, Dan Mightby the second
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: in command supervisor at Thermo Fisher, and we learned he
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: had a seven hundred thousand dollars insurance policy on who
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: else but his wife Michelle Guys walked in her office
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: or I think somebody killed somebody upstairs in her office, okay,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: thank somebody laying the kind around covered up and there's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: blood all over up the floor in the office. Okay.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So what's the addresser? Seventy three eighty three and fire drive. Okay,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: if it's somebody that worked there, Yeah, it looks like
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: her name is Michelle Marca Be. She usually comes in
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: early on Mondays and they got her like her whole
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: body's covered with plastic in that you can't see her
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: head or anything, and obvious she's dead, right, yes, sir,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: yes man? Okay? What's your name as Jeska? Why? Uska? Okay?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: How how long has it been since somebody was in
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: there but a Friday? What time did you get in?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Five O'clockly, if people come in and usually Michelle on Mondays,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: get your seven o'clock Who blooded Michelle might be dead
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: on the one morning a week she comes in early
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: when no one else would be around at the time
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: she gets in joining me right now. Ashley Wilcott judge
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a lawyer anchor. You can find her at Ashley Wilcot
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: dot com. What about it, Ashley, What about motive. Let's
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: talk about motive, follow the money. How many times do
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: we see that that's the motive? And speaking of money,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: is it true, Ashley Wilcot, that while the husband got
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: nearly a million dollars life insurance policy, he still hadn't
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: paid off her headstone. You know, that's what they're saying.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? That's a lot of money to get.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Why in the world would you not take care of
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: your deceased wife? First begs the question, doesn't it seven
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars as a result of this? So again,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it might add to the motive. Well,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I remember dotor Bethany Marshall, California psychoanalyst, a murder case
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I tried. It's a very very difficult case where a millionaire.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: This is what happened. He hit his head, his wife
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in the head. Then he said, how us on fire?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And he crawls out a window. It's like two o'clock
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: in the morning. As I recall, he's fully dressed, shoes, belt, pants, shirt, wallet, glasses,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the works and goes in lays all our romanesque in
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the front. Neighbor's yard. While the house burns down, the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: fire department pulls up. They talked to him for about
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: three minutes before he goes, oh yeah, my wife's in there. Okay.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And I tried every which way at trial to get
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: in evidence that he had not paid the funeral bill.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And this man had millions. I wouldn't pay the funeral bill.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: He hated her that much. I did not get it in.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: By the way, it never came into evidence. But the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: same principle here it makes it. It doesn't prove anything, no,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: which is why the judge would not let me let
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: it in, although I thought it was a valid circumstance evidence.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: But in this case, the fact that he hasn't paid
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: for the headstone, you know, it doesn't prove anything, but
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it might add into evidence for a jury. I think
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it adds nancy because it shows possible contempt for the decease,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you know. Ashley Wilcott pointed out that there are players
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: in this scenario who can benefit in some way, perhaps
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: financially or where there's money involved. That would be either
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: an employee or the husband with a life insurance policy.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But there are other motivators for homicide too. There's contempt
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: or as we saw with Scott Peterson, he was having
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: multiple affairs and he didn't want the unborn baby. So
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: you know, there's also the getting the wife out of
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the way because I want an idealized life away from her,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and the fact that the husband did not pay for
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: her Headstone says that maybe there's a certain lack of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: regard or he was detached from her or wanted her
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: out of the way for some reason. The husband as
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: a viable person of interest, as a husband always is
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: when a woman is founded and vice versa. But Robert Wilenski,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life CSI,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: behind the Casey Anthony Trial on Amazon, Robin, what can
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you tell me about the falsification of a work records
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and time card? So one of the people, it has
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to be crystal clear that at this scene, when we're
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: hearing these nine one one calls and people are calling in,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: there's a finite amount of people in this huge building.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: There's a deceased HR lady who's doing time cards on
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: a Monday morning as the HR people do, and then
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: there's a janitor, and then there's the guy that you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: hear on the nine one one call another employee, So
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that's three people to my account, and the husband isn't
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: on scene. And so this whole time card issue is
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: is that this janitor who is not actually an employee
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: of the company. He owns his own janitorial services company
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: with his wife. And this guy bills separately as an
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: independent contractor. Like you had somebody coming in and getting
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: rid of the roaches or the bugs, and then they
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: send you a separate bill. He's a contractor and his
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: time card is three times what it should be. So
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: if he's saying, well, I worked four hours a day,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: there's an allegation that, well, he's actually working twelve hours
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a day, and so he's trying to dip in and
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: get more money and the HR lady who's dead on
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the floor knows about it. Wow, Okay, so we're looking
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: at potential motives everywhere, and then we learn is there
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: a break in the case is their security video? Take
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a listen. Several truck drivers who were already parked a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Thermo official or scientific in the overnight hours before Michelle
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Mockbey died. One of them was there hours before. Here's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: why that was important for a minute, because there is
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: security video that shows a man walking around an adjacent
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: business the night before she was found dead. It was
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: not either of those truck drivers. Take a listen to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: news reporter and Jeanette Levy. Garland Latham used to work
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: at the warehouse. He was questioned about the so called
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: random dude in this surveillance video. He was seen walking
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: through the parking lot just nine hours before the murder.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: The attorneys say detectives didn't try hard enough to identify him.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: You know, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, I used to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: tell juries, what do you want a video? But in
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: this case we have a video. But what good is it? Yeah?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: What good is it? It's good for the defense because
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you know it's their job, Nancy, that any case that's created,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: obviously by the prosecution, is to poke holes in it.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: You always they always want to, you know, kind of
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: drum up this idea that what if it could be
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: somebody else? There's an alternate explanation, And that's why this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: video is significant. It's almost like a real life game
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: of clue. There were thirteen employees present at the workplace
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the morning of Michelle Mokby's murder, who would have known
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: she would be there early that Monday morning, giving someone
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to bludgeon her dead, leaving her there her
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: hands still bound behind her back. So systematically the thirteen
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: are held. Do we even know it is one of
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the thirteen, but systematically each one is held and questioned
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, and we were looking for people,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: other victims, the perpetrator, or any obvious signs of evidence. Okay,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: when you walked in the hallway, did you see at
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: what you said? You saw blood on the bele you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: said in the hallway on the floor in front of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the door, there was blood going up to the door
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: and den we just basically followed the blood to see
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: if there was an effect. Blood belonged to another victim,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and we went through and then you could see blood
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: looked to be small blood stains on the carpet. Okay,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: do you see any blood on the walls or any
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: on any vertical circuit. I don't remember Deputy Anthony Lusty
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: describing under questioning what he saw at the same And
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: remember the door to Michelle Mockby's office had pri marks
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: on it. Somebody wanted in, somebody was after her. What
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: she bleeding. Is that what the trail of blood is?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: While she did the bludgeonings start before she got into
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: her office. Did she get into her office, locked the door,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and the door was then pride open and the bludgeoning continued.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Remember this is a young and beautiful soccer mom of
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: two little girls. I'm looking at them right now with
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: her in the middle of them. Everybody all three big
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: beautiful smiles. The school even says their thoughts and prayers
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: with the family. She had been a member of the PTA,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the parent teacher organization. Everyone in their neighborhood said they
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: loved their daughters, they took care of them, that their
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: family was the center of their life. She was even
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: a girl Scout cookie mom. I mean doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: she scrubbed in sunshine. Who would do this to her? Well,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: we have two possible people. We have the husband who
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: didn't pay for the tombstone or the headstone, and we
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: have the janitor who has falsified all of his billing.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And right now it sounds like an Eggita Christie novel
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Thirteen people are being held to people. It does It
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't fact there was, In fact, there was a spoof
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: on one of her novels that the twins watched and
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: with me, and it's exactly like this. Well, you say
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that there are two suspects, there were thirteen people at
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: the work site the morning she was murdered, and we
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: learned also that there was a forty foot trail of
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: blood leading to her office Joe Scott Morgan. So we've
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: got thirteen narrowed down to three at the office by
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the police, discounting the husband. And Robin Lynskey tells me
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: he has an alibi that he's at home with the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: children at the time. Forty foot trail of blood, what
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: does that mean? Well, the trail itself, you have to
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: be able to distinguish it. Are they droplets of blood
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: or they drag marks, because that's going to give you
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: an indication as to what happened. Let's just say that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: she was beaten in another place. The difference is is
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that were these drag marks or were they droplets. If
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: they were droplets, that trail that they're talking about, it
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: is going to give an indication that she was upright
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and moving. The blood is dropping away from her body
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: as she moves to and fro. If it was a
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: drag mark. That means that there was an attempt, probably
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to spirit the body away to another location. That means
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: she's incapacitated and you're dragging the blood just like if
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: people at home will think about dragging a dirty mop
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: along the floor. You're leaving this somebody that wanted her dead.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: And it started outside of her office and they began
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: bludging her outside of her office forty feet that blood trail.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: She gets to her office, locks her door, the door's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: pride open. I'm curious as to where the blood trail started.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: We know she got there before six am, and that
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: really does rule out the husband because he is at
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: home with the girls. Now just ninety minutes later or less,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: her body is discovered savagely beaten, and there are more
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: details to the discovery of her body. Her skull was
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: fractured in four separate places. There was a plastic bag
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: literally soaked with her blood, placed over her face. That
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: is highly significant, doctor Bethany Marshall. Highly significant that the
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: killer covered her face well. The killer did not want
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to look her in the face. The killer did not
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: to see her looking back at him as a witness
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to what he had just done. This is very common
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: for perpetrators to put a bag over somebody's head, or
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: if they dump a pod body out in the woods
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to cover it up or cover up the face. It's
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: as if in some ways they do not want to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: be seen. Also, as Joe Scott Morgan pointed out, if
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: whoever did this bludgend her in one spot and then
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: drug her forty feet, were they trying to contain the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: bleeding from the most profuse spot? And there are a
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: lot of blood vessels around the scalp right, so if
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: this is where she was bludgened, they could have tried
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to like stave off the bleeding, put the bag over
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: the head and then drag her with the least amount
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: of blood in that trail. Other items taken at the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: scene included, and this is highly highly significant, a tape gun.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: A tape gun believed by law enforcement to actually be
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the murder weapon. That tells me a lot Because the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: tape gun is there on the scene, the perp didn't
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: bring it with him, so was this a crime of passion,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: an instant crime, and a crime of the moment. We
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: also learned her hands were not bound wise by ziptized
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: or handcuffs, which would likely have been brought to the scene,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: but by tape tape packing tape which was there on
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the scene, also scattered around her body. And I find
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: this to be the single most probitive evidence or time
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: cards time cards. Robert Lensky explain the significance, Well, the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: significance to me is that it's very possible that there
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: was some sort of verbal altercation, an argument between possibly
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: the janitor and the HR lady. Perhaps they encounter each other.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe he knows because he's cleaning before everybody's getting to
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: work on Monday morning, that you know, I'm going out
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: on a limb here, And maybe there's a confrontation because
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: she's the HR lady and she knows that there's a
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: scam going on. She knows based on the outside video
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: security cameras of the perimeter of this huge warehouse and building,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: who is coming in when, with the janitor's bucket and
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the mop and the bags and this and that, And
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: maybe she had the time cards in her hand, coming
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: into work early, as all HR managers do at my
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: other places of business on Monday morning, my HR manager
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: does my time card, and perhaps the time time cards
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: were in her hand and there was an argument, and hey,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: you're trying to scam this company. Well, also significantly, not
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: not just what was at the crime scene, but Joe
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, as a forensics expert, you look at what
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: was not at the crime scene. Duly, the guy with
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the big lucrative business on the side, the janitor there,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: his time cards were missing. Joe Scott. Yeah, that's a
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: huge red flag, isn't it. Nancy. You know the idea
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that that out of all of those time cards doctor
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Bethany had mentioned how they're scattered about the floor. You
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: had mentioned how they're scattered about the floor, and out
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of all those cards, is there are missing, So that
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that gives us an indication that maybe these have been
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: rifled through in order to identify a specific set. You're
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: going in there with purpose. But he went in just
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned. This is fascinating to me, Nancy. You
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: talked about the tape that her hands were bound with,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and also this tape gun. In forensic and in attacks
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: like this, that tape gun, if in fact that was
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: used to ask the weapon to kill her with, that's
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: referred to as a weapon of convenience. That's not something
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you'd come prepared with. It's something that you it's a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: reactionary event where you grab the closest thing that you
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: can in order to facilitate facilitate these fatal blows. A
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: dead bolt, the padlock had just been put on her
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: office door. Had someone been stealing time cards or changing them? Listen,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Will the jury find the defendant David Dooley guilty of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: murder under Instruction number four signed by the four person
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: term prey physical evidence verdict fourm B we the jury
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: find the defendant David Duley guilty of term physical evidence
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: under evidence under Instruction number five. To this day, there's
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: a strong contingent that claims David Dooley is innocent and
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that the husband did it, or that anybody did it
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: beside David Dooley, But the jury has spoken. Nancy Grace
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off, Goodbye Friend,