Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Alanis Morissette's 'Jagged Little Pill': A 30-Year Retrospective [Episode 298]

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Alanis Morissette's 'Jagged Little Pill': A 30-Year Retrospective [Episode 298] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On this episode of Book Down Rock, Elenis Morissets Jagged
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Little Pill turns thirty, a deep dive into the making
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: of the album, its songs, and it's lasting impact. Thirty
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: years later, We're totally booked rock and roll.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, rock bad,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: roll out. I totally booked. Welcome back to Book Down
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Rock Americ Sanitch. This month marks the thirtieth anniversary of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest albums of the nineties and one
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of the biggest albums of all time. That's Elnis Morisset's
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Jagged Little Pill. And with us to talk about the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: album is Selena Fragassi, author of the new book Atlantis
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: thirty Years of Jagged Little Pill. Selena, Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me thirty.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Years man, Time Flies, Time Flies. I was about twenty
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: two when this album came out, and I remember it
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: very well. Let's start there, because you talk about this
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in the introduction. Can you share with us the story
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of where you were when you first heard Jagged Little
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Pill and the very important words that your uncle told
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you after listening.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, I was in a car of all places.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's purposeful though, you know Alanti's and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: cars for much of album inner videos, But I was
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: in a car. I was thirteen years old and this
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: album came out. I was going to Catholic school, so
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I was very sheltered and innocent, and my uncle was
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: a huge fan of singer songwriters, in particular women voices
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: in the nineties, and the CD had just come out.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: He had it on in the car. You Ought Too
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: came on and that line came on, and I was like,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: oh my god, what are we listening to. I can't
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: hear these words. And he said something very meaningful to me,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and he said, I know this doesn't make sense to
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: you now, but in a couple of years, play this album,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: remember Alanta's, Remember Jag a Little Pill, because it will
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: mean something to you. And that memory is just so
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: strong in my head because and of course it became true.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: It meant so much to me and still does.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So true because it was something to write in and
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the introduction that underscores the album's ability to affect you
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: throughout the years as you grow into adulthood. Specific songs
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: that would rise up from the rest and connect with
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: you all depending on where you were in your life.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I think now I'm obviously thirty years older
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: like we all are, and I have a stepdaughter in
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: my life, so I think about how these songs maybe
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: take on different meaning coming from like a parental role
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: or just being more mature at the stage in my
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: life and thinking how I'm also wanting to try to
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: be perfect in my career now. So yeah, these songs
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: are such universal themes that it really just this album
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: just grows with you, and it's so universal that it
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: crosses the lifespan.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: She had some great musical influences early on Bob Dylan
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: now listening to her play the harmonica, and now I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: think about after reading the book, I know that's where
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: she was inspired to play the harmonica. But also I
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: see why she's such a great lyricist because she was
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: very well read as a child.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was so in the household. She had a brother,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Wade and her older brother and they were not allowed
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to really watch TV. It was more about reading and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the arts, and she was a very well read kid.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And she started writing from the age of ten. She
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: wrote her first song. I literally had a song published
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: at ten, which is crazy, but yeah, and the house
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: had her parents were very into folk music. That really
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: became instrumental when she started working with Lindsay and Morgan,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: who were a full grew out of Canada. They actually
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: helped her when she was a child because they believed
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: in her. And so, you know, in addition to Bob Dylan,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: there was Libya Newton John, there was Madonna. As she
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: got older, she loved Shnead O'Connor. So yeah, there's a
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: lot of a big melting plot of influences that came
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: with Alani's.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Jagged Little Pill was Alanis's first international release, but she
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: had released two albums before this. Not sure how many
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: people know about this, but she was a big star
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: in Canada. Give us a brief lead up to the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: point when Alanis records this album. She wasn't even twenty,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: but there was concern that her career was over at
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the age of twenty.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible to think about because she did start
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: so young and there was such promise. She was signed
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: to MCA Records Canada when she was fourteen years old,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: and she released two albums when in nineteen ninety one
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: and nineteen ninety two back to back, and they were
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: very pop. They were very contemporary Paula Abdul Janet Jackson
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: kind of influences. Only in Canada. They were never distributed
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: in America. There were I think a few reasons for that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I think they tried to get them distributed here, but
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: we already had the gamut of our own pop stars
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: here and they just thought it would be overcrowded. And
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: fortunately at that time, it was the idea of we
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: already have this token woman, we don't need more, sadly,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and so I don't think many Americans really knew about
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: that until more recently, that she had this Canadian pop
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: star past. But if you listen to the second album,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: it's called Now is the Time. There's a track on
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: there called real World, and if you watch the video
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: you can see hints of the jagged songwriters starting to emerge.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: She's making some very big statements about the world and
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: being a woman, and they're very provocative in the video,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: and her label was telling her, you can't do this.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: You were such a huge star. She won Juno Awards
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: for the day view that she had self titled the
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: year prior. You Can't change you're our money maker right now,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: and she said the heck, I can't, and she was
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: dropped by them. She calls it a blessing in disguise,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: and she very could have well been a one hit
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: wonder and not ever become an international star because stage
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: just relegated to Canada. But things changed for her.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: There were important people we need to mention because they
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: play a huge role. Tell us about Scott Welch first.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Scott Welch was her Jagged Little pill Era manager,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: so not her first manager, but during the Jagged Little
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: pill Era and I actually talked to him for this book.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: He stayed with her for about ten years, but he
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: was very instrumental. He knew the an R rep from
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: MCAA Records Canada, John Alexander, who really believed in Alanis.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: He was going to sign her when she was fourteen,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and even when MCAA dropped her, he gave Seed money
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: for her to really keep going with it and come
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: to America. And Scott knew Glenn Ballard, who of course
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: became Alanis collaborator, co writer, producer, and it just all
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: the puzzle pieces kind of came to and the way
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: that Scott an Alanis's early publicist Mitch Schneider, who I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: also talked in the book. The way that they really
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: marketed her granted her. The opportunities they got her were
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: very very well thought out, and I think all of
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: that kind of had a domino effect in terms of
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: how this snowballed.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Glenn Ballard and Alanis hit it off immediately. It's such
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a great story. Let's get to that now. I have
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to read this excerpt from your book before asking you
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: how they met. You're right quote. In reality, the modesty
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: with which Jagged Little Pill was made is remarkable and
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: stands in star contrast to the cultural juggernaut and record
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: breaker the album became in the years after. Not only
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: were there three number one singles that dominated the Billboard charts,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: but when the album topped the Billboard two hundred in
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: October nineteen ninety five and stayed there for twelve weeks,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the feat made Alanis the first Canadian woman to ever
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: do so. Later, when the record was nominated for nine
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Grammy Awards across three cycles and netted five wins, most
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: importantly Album of the Year, it turned Alanis into the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: youngest person ever at that point to nab that honor.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: To date, Jagged Littlepill has sold thirty million albums, has
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: been edified on best selling lists in thirteen countries, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: remains one of the best selling albums of the nineteen nineties.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And to think it all started over a simple cup
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: of tea. So tell us how the two met and
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: how quickly they hit it off despite being an unlikely pair,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: right at least on the surface.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because they seem like it right. There
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: was a big age discrepancy. Glenn was about twenty years
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: older than her. Glenn had already had a career, very
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: successful career in music. He was an apprentice of Quincy
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Jones back in the day. He had worked with Wilson
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Phillips and Paula Abdul, had a ton of hits to
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: his name, and he was approached by the management and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Scott Walchin John Alexander about this Canadian songwriter and would
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: he give her a chance and something about like the
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: demos he kind of heard her previous albums, He heard
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: something and he wanted to And so it's really kind
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: of interesting because at the time I started working together
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Glenn's studio in Encino, California, there had just been a
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: major earth quay, and he didn't even have the full
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: setup going at that point, and they met at a diner.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: They just met over a cup of tea. They started
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: talking and immediately they found synchronicity in their viewpoints on life,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: on philosophy and spirituality, on just the state of the world.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: And the thing that was really special buck lenn Is
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Zlana's had been so very much controlled as a teen
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: pop star in Canada. She had people who were so
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: overarching that they had led to eating disorders because they
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: were trying to control what she was eating so she
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: would look at in videos. Glenn was the complete opposite.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: He gave her freedom. He wasn't wing clipping. He was
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: actually asking her very poignant questions of who are you,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: what do you want to be known as, what do
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you want to say? And he opened up this platform
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: for her to really express herself. The thing that I
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: find really interesting about their partnership is that they both
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: came from the pop world. They both had this polish
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: on the works that they did, and they made this
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: album that was so raw and honest and done in
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: one takes. It was the lead opposite of how they
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: both had worked before, and it was this magical chemistry
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: they came upon.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: He talks about how not being on a record label
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: yet was a factor since they weren't forced to write
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: for the radio or an A and R guy, but
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: still a huge risk to open up like she did.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Where do you think that fearlessness to bear those raw
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: emotions came from.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I think you said it. I think the fact that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: there was no powers that be who had them tied
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: to the chain of money. There was no one saying
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: what they had to do to fit some kind of
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: vision or a marketing plan. They were able to just
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: create for creation's sake, like in their own little laboratory.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And I think because they had no restrictions, and because
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Glenn really asked her very leading question, she was able
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to really express it. But all of this in her
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: had been building up for years. She had some extremely
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: harrowing experiences as a pop star in Canada, Like I mentioned,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: the eating disorders, very inappropriate relationship with elder men who
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: now we would see that almost to find a statutory rape.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Just really horrific things that happened to her. And so
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: as she got older and matured and was developing her opinions,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: on things, all this bubble to the surface on jacket Littleboo.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she addresses eating disorders, sexuality, anxiety, depression, religious dogma. Yeah,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and as you right later, it all out bear on
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the table like a radical centerfold, daring you not to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: turn away. Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out
• 10:29
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• 10:33
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• 10:42
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• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the show. So, Lena Fragassi's the author of Alana's Thirty
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Years of Jagged Little Pill. Two tracks on the album
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you say mark turning points in the writing of this album,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: ironic and perfect. Can you explain why those two songs
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: were so pivotal.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Ironic was actually one of the first songs that they
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: wrote together. In the beginning, Glenn was kind of holding
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: her hands and walking her through the stage. Ironic was
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: the first song she fully wrote herself. She did not
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: want it on the album, and Glenn pressed her, this
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: is a great song. We've got to have it. And
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: of course, to this day we all know that she
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: kind of got the meaning of the word wrong, but
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: it's so powerful it's changed our perception of the word.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: People say ironic all the time and they mean coincidence,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: but that's really because of that song. So that was
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: one turning point. The other was Perfect. That song was
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: one of the most confessional that Alani's really poured her
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: heart into. She had struggled with being a perfectionist her
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: entire life of people pleaser. She wanted to do that
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: with her parents, with the people who were part of
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the record label in Canada, with her team. And the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: thing that's really pivotal about Perfect is that they shopped
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: around every single record label for this album. Nobody was
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: biting Atlantic, Virgin, Interscope, nobody, and through some interconnections, Glenn
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: was able to get a time with Maverick Records, which
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: was run by Madonna at the time, but a small label.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: But they had to go like that day, right at
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: that time to do this impromptu audition. Alana's had no
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: makeup on, she was in sweatpants, and it was the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: moment she played perfect that GUYO Siri, who was one
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: of the executives who is now Madonna's manager, knew that
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: he had to sign her. It was that song, but
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: it was her playing it in a way where she
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: wasn't like trying hard. She was just herself in sweatpants
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: playing the song, and it made the song even more meaningful.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Let's go through the album's six singles. The album opens
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: with All I Really Want. It was the last song
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: written for the album. Glenn Ballad says Alanis was really
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: spent by the time they put this song. Together.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. But that line about the sweater, you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the backwards inside out. They just thought that was a
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: great opening to the album because that really was like
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: the question leading into the rest of the album to come.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: They worked hard on this album, Oh.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, they just I mean, but they were churning
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: out stuff so fast, like almost every day. They had
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: a new song come out, so.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Within thirty minutes they wrote their first song together.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You know, Alanis really said that if a
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: song can't come out in forty five minutes, it wasn't
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: meant to be written. She was always very stream of
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: consciousness and the idea of like first thought, best thought,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: let's not edit this too much. It's why she refused
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: to redo her vocals and any of these songs.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: The lead single from the album's track Too You Ought
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to Know. A couple famous musicians appear on the track.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Didn't even know this for the longest time. Dave Navarro
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: on guitar, Flee on bass. Were they in the same
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: studio at the time this was I can't remember the story.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: There was some connection.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was actually through Guio Siri, who knew Madonna.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: He was part of Mavericks, so he knew Lee and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Dave read Hutchley. Peppers were on two at the time,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: and I think the idea was they were really trying
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: to figure out where to kind of pivot or put Alanis.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: You know, alternative radio was breaking at the time, it
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: was super huge, and I think there was an idea
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that she could find her footing in there, but they
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: needed to have this really strong rock backbone, and so
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: those two of course added to the album. And Yeah,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I just I think k Rock then was like, sure
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: we should play this because look who's on it.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Elena's thought about changing the lyrics at one point, but
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Glenn Ballor talked her out of it. Why did she
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: want the lyrics to be changed?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I think she almost thought, am I going too far?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Should I really be saying these things? And I think
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: she at a point had qualms of opening up as
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: much as she did, and that of course being the
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: first song, which was her decision, but I think she
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: had a moment to pause and maybe reconsider hand.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: In my pocket. She and Glenn were being hard on
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: themselves to come up with this song on this particular day.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So Elena's decided to start write about whatever's on my mind,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: whatever I'm feeling.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that song is such a great kind of
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: snapshot of life in your twenties, all the contradictions, all
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the weird ways life kind of confuses you. And it
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: was just what she was thinking about and a great
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: example of her stream of consciousness writing.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: And then you learn another huge crossover hit number six
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: on Billboard about life lessons and how they can be
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: hard pills to swallow. Alanis she did swallow some hard
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: pills when she arrived in La. If you could talk
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: about that, she was robbed at gunpoint.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird. Alana's has been robbed several times in
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: her life, super strange. But the most pivotal was when
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: here she was this innocent Canadian fresh to La and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: got a stark slap in the face of reality. When
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: she was walking home one night from the gym. She
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: had two backpacks with her one header Jim Gear. One
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: had her lyrics in her notebook with the material of
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Jagged Little Pill, and she was robbed at gunpoint and
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: she was on the ground and she was just praying
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in her head, please take the one bag and not
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: my backpack with the lyrics in it, And thankfully.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: They did it head over feet. When she wrote this,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: she was experiencing a new kind of relationship.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everyone thinks, you know, she was tagged as
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: this angry young woman when she came to the surface,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: because if you ought to know, and the passion in
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: that song. But there's so many emotions on this album.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And however, her feet is really about feeling in love,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and it was about a friend who had turned into
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: something more. And it was just really pure emotion about
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: feeling very content with.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Someone and didn't need the drama. Yeah, it was somebody
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: she felt safe with. Interesting, and you did mention ironic.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: This all started with something she said while she and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Glenn were having lunch.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they actually would meet from meals. It's how
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: they would start their sessions. They would just have a
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: conversation tea food in a studio and that's how they
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: would get the sort of wheels moving and turning to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: start creating the song for that day.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And I had no idea she took so much heat
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: from the grammar police on the song. I really didn't
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: know who cares. The song's great, But yeah, she could
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: have called it coincidental, right, I.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Know, but like I wouldn't have the same ring to it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But it's you know, she's been a good sport about it.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: She's readone the song for modern times. You know, she
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: did it during COVID about waiting for your Amazon package
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to arrive. I mean she's gonna.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So of the six singles, you got a personal pick,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and why.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: My favorite is actually not a single on the album,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and it's changed over time, So I would probably have
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: said in the beginning it's you ought to know but
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: like most people. But I think as time went on
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and as I listened to this album and researched this book,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: it really became right through You.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Oh I love that song.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love the music on that song.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I love the passion on that song. There's just so
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: much she's taking aim at very specific people. Everyone thinks
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: on you want to know who's that song about? Is
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: it Uncle Joey? We still don't know. Right Through You
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: was about the label executives that would not give her
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the time of day and kept trying to change her.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Uncle Joey from full House, Full House, Yeah, right right boy, Yeah,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: right through You. Mary Jane's great though. I love that one,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: great song forgiven perfect Yeah. One of the other ones,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: uh not the die and wake Up?
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: What does Jagged Littlepill mean to you today? Three decades
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: later when you listen to it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: It's such an empowerment album and I feel like, you know,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: she was struggling with so many different emotions when she
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: wrote it, but it's so convincing in a way of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: just taking the power back and feeling conviction and who
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you are and not being ashamed of all the feelings
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: you have. And I think I speak for a whole
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: chorus of women and singer songwriters in particular who have
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: talked about the impact of this album. And I don't
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: think even today we'd have the amount of confessional, incredible
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: songwriters we do without Alana's paving in this way. So
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I think of it as just a gay crasher, as
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: a classic that we're still going to talk about in
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: thirty years, and as an album that resonates with a
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: lot of people, but in particular a lot of a
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: lot of women who just finally felt we can have
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: a multitude of emotions and not feel bad about it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I would love to know the demographics of the fans
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of Alanti's in this album, because as a guy, I
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: love it, so I wonder how many guys I don't.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I haven't looked like I should check out some of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the videos the live concert's like a lot of guys
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in the audience. I'm assuming, yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, obviously it's kewed, very female centric,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: but men love this album, and I think because yeah,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: she has feminist anthems on it, of course, But this
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: album really is just about life in your twenties, and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it's angsty and it's rebellious and just it's so poetic
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and wordy, and so there's ways to grab so many
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: different people into it. That that's again, it's what makes
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: it universal. And just has lived on this song.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking she was like a young female Springsteen
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: when she came.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: That's a great point.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: She's still I think she's out on tour right now.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: She is, and I just saw her last summer actually,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: and she is doing a summer tour this year, I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: believe as well, but and festivals this year or two.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: She just played Beach Life. But she plays a lot
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of these songs of course, because it's the music that
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: really resonated with people. I don't think it would ever
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: have been possible to follow this up with anything near
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: as monolithic. I mean, thirty three million albums worldwide, nothing
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: to shake your heat at. But she has kept going,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and she's allowed her own journey as a woman, as
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a mother really dictate what she starts writing about as well.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: She's always felt like this big sister to a lot
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: of people because she's talking about very topical things that
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: people are going through at different stages in their life.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Alana's thirty years of Jagged Little Pill, It's out now.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: You can find it where her books are sold, look
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: forward at your nearest bookstore. You can always go to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: booked on rock dot com to find your nearest independent bookstore.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And where can people find you online?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm everywhere. I'm on all the social media channels
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: besides TikTok, I feel like I'm just probably too old
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: for that, but Facebook, Instagram, x all at Selena Fergossi,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I'm the only one with my name, so if you
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: find it, it's me.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Great Selena, congratulations. The book is amazing and you can't
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: find a better publisher than Motor Books. They always do
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a fantastic job putting these books together, so it's a
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: home run.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, Eric, I appreciate the kind words.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: That's it in the box.