Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why Telling Kids to Use Their Words Doesn't Always Work [a Listener Q&A]

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Why Telling Kids to Use Their Words Doesn't Always Work [a Listener Q&A] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast where you
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  Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every day. Tuesday means tricky questions.
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  Speaker 1: Today we have one about five-year-olds lashing out, being a
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  Speaker 1: little bit dysregulated. What do we do to get regulation happening?
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  Speaker 1: How do we talk to our kids about behaving in
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  Speaker 1: social rather than anti-social ways? That and more is coming
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  Speaker 1: up right after this. Stay with us. Hello, it's the
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  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast where you get real parenting solutions every
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  Speaker 1: single day. We're Justin and Kylie Coulson. We're parents of
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  Speaker 1: six kids, six daughters, and we have raised six five-year-olds,
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  Speaker 1: which means we've been through it all. Today, it's a
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  Speaker 1: tricky question about a five-year-old who is having a bit
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  Speaker 1: of a struggle. Even though school is almost finished for
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  Speaker 1: the year or in the final term, let's talk about
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  Speaker 1: that in a sec. But if you have a tricky
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  Speaker 1: question that you would like to ask us, you can
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  Speaker 1: hit us up by sending us a voice note to
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  Speaker 1: podcasts at happyfamilies.com.au. That's podcasts with an S at happyfamilies.com.au. Alternatively,
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  Speaker 1: just visit the website, happyfamilies.com.au. When you scroll down on
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  Speaker 1: the homepage, you see a spot where you can press
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  Speaker 1: record and start talking, just like Amy, who sent us
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  Speaker 1: this question.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, Kylie and Dr. Justin. I have a tricky question today.
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  Speaker 2: My five-year-old son, who's in prep, has started to physically
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  Speaker 2: lash out and hit his friends when he is really
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  Speaker 2: frustrated or angry or feels like something is unfair. I
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  Speaker 2: have heard that this is happening with other children in
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  Speaker 2: the classroom as well, which makes me feel like maybe
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  Speaker 2: there are some things that could be done differently in
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  Speaker 2: the classroom to help support the feelings of the children
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  Speaker 2: before they get this big. But at the end of
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  Speaker 2: the day, I just want to make sure my kid
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  Speaker 2: isn't hurting other children. And he's using his words instead
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  Speaker 2: of his hands. I have tried to talk to him
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  Speaker 2: about positive ways to release your emotions, to talk about things,
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  Speaker 2: to use your words. I try to get him to
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  Speaker 2: release a lot of his physical energy throughout the day
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  Speaker 2: at the park, on his bike, on his scooter, on
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  Speaker 2: the trampoline. But I'm just at a bit of a loss.
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  Speaker 2: When I hear that he has hit at school, what
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  Speaker 2: should I do? Please help.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Kylie, kids lashing out at school, a five-year-old
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  Speaker 1: little boy who isn't feeling great. First thing that comes
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  Speaker 1: to mind is that when you are the parent and
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  Speaker 1: you find out that your child has been doing this,
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  Speaker 1: it's just the worst feeling ever. You feel like you're
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  Speaker 1: just not getting it right. And I can hear in
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  Speaker 1: Amy's voice note that sense of, oh, we're trying to
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  Speaker 1: have the conversation. It's not going any, what are we
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  Speaker 1: supposed to do here?
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  Speaker 3: I can remember getting a phone call from the school
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  Speaker 3: when our eldest was six. We had to go and
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  Speaker 3: meet with the teacher. And when we went in, we
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  Speaker 3: were met with a nice, beautiful drawing on the carpet.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: We had taught our six-year-old that when she had big emotions,
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  Speaker 3: that was really good to draw it out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And she could do as big a scribble as she wanted.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: We forgot to mention that it needed to be on paper.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: And the teacher was most upset that she'd taken her
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  Speaker 3: anger out on the carpet. So we have experienced these
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  Speaker 3: emotions a lot over the years.
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  Speaker 1: So as I listen to Amy's question, there's a couple
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  Speaker 1: of things that come to mind. The first, and she's
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  Speaker 1: pinpointed something that I was going to say, but it's
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  Speaker 1: worth emphasising. culture of the school, the culture of the
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  Speaker 1: classroom is important. And it seems that this kind of
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  Speaker 1: behavior is happening beyond just her child. What is modeled
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  Speaker 1: will be replicated. And it may be this child, Amy's child,
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  Speaker 1: it might be other kids that are starting it off.
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  Speaker 1: But when there is dysfunction, dysregulation in the classroom, other
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  Speaker 1: kids start to learn, oh, okay, so this is where
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  Speaker 1: the boundary is rather than having the boundary a little
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  Speaker 1: bit higher. So This is one of those tricky ones, though,
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  Speaker 1: where as a parent, it's very, very hard to sit
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  Speaker 1: down and say to the teacher, tell me about the
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  Speaker 1: culture in the classroom. That's not going to work. And
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even recommend it if I was a teacher. Sorry,
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  Speaker 1: I spend enough time talking with teachers to know that
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  Speaker 1: they don't tend to respond well when a parent starts
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  Speaker 1: asking them about what's going on in the classroom or
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  Speaker 1: making suggestions about how they could do their job. I
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  Speaker 1: will share one exception. I wish every teacher could hear
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  Speaker 1: and know this story. There was a teacher... In southwestern Sydney,
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  Speaker 1: who was approached by a parent of a grade nine
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  Speaker 1: girl who was very, very challenging. And this parent just unleashed,
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  Speaker 1: really let the teacher have it. I can't believe you
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  Speaker 1: think you're a good teacher. What are you doing in
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  Speaker 1: this school? My daughter's failing. My daughter's having this experience
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  Speaker 1: and that experience because of you gave him a really
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  Speaker 1: hard time. She was not polite about it at all.
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  Speaker 1: Most teachers would be understandably aggrieved and probably aggravated. This
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  Speaker 1: particular teacher, he paused and literally he said to her,
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  Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you've come to talk to me
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  Speaker 1: about this. I am struggling with your daughter. And the
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  Speaker 1: fact that you care so much means a great deal
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  Speaker 1: for me and for her. And in that gratitude that
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  Speaker 1: he expressed, he essentially turned her from an enemy into
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  Speaker 1: an ally. And I ought to work on that. However,
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  Speaker 1: that's a very unusual response. And I wouldn't be recommending
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  Speaker 1: it to you, Amy. Next thing that strikes me... as
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  Speaker 1: being really important to highlight is just the developmental trajectory
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  Speaker 1: of young boys. Girls and boys are fairly similar in
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  Speaker 1: their trajectory, although boys tend to be a little bit
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  Speaker 1: slower in their social development, even their cognitive development, and
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  Speaker 1: certainly their regulatory development, the ability that they have to
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  Speaker 1: regulate their emotions. And so Amy used the words I
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  Speaker 1: want him to use his words rather than his hands.
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  Speaker 1: And that's right. That's an appropriate desire. And also at
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  Speaker 1: this age, it's something that we do want to be teaching,
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  Speaker 1: but not all kids are quite there yet. And the
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  Speaker 1: great irony from a neurological point of view is that
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  Speaker 1: when somebody gets really emotional, all the blood and all
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  Speaker 1: the oxygen that is required to run the brain moves
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  Speaker 1: away from the areas where our words are created and
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  Speaker 1: where our thinking happens, and it flushes and floods our
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  Speaker 1: emotional system instead.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And so if you don't have any blood or any
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  Speaker 1: oxygen going to the areas that you need, it's all
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  Speaker 1: going to that emotional center. That means that the areas
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  Speaker 1: that you need can't function. They can't fire. The areas
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  Speaker 1: that I'm talking about here, can I just flex for
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  Speaker 1: a moment? They're called Wernicke's area and Broca's area. That's
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  Speaker 1: where speech production, language production, that's where all that happens.
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  Speaker 1: The ability to hear and understand and compute the words.
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  Speaker 1: There's no signaling happening there. There's no blood. There's no
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  Speaker 1: oxygen there. It's all in the emotional part of the brain,
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  Speaker 1: which is further back and a little bit lower down.
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  Speaker 1: And so essentially what happens is you say, I want
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  Speaker 1: you to use your words. But just like you and
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  Speaker 1: I as adults, when we get really emotional, sometimes we
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  Speaker 1: can't find the words we need. It's even more the
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  Speaker 1: case with kids because their brains just, they haven't learned
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  Speaker 1: the regulatory requirements that we have.
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  Speaker 3: So one of the skills that we taught our youngest,
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  Speaker 3: because she really struggled with this as well, motion regulation
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  Speaker 3: was huge for her. Instead of trying to focus on
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  Speaker 3: words that were hard to find.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: It was encouraging her to take a breath. If she
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  Speaker 3: could take one or two deep breaths, when you could
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  Speaker 3: see the frustration building in her, it was enough to
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  Speaker 3: break the circuit. The challenge is you as the parent
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  Speaker 3: are not standing there as you're watching this.
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  Speaker 1: No, this is happening in the classroom.
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  Speaker 3: Happening.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And it's really tricky. But if you can practice that
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  Speaker 3: with your child when you're in their space, hopefully over time,
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  Speaker 3: they're actually going to take that on board.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this really awesome quote from an ancient Stoic
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  Speaker 1: philosopher whose name escapes me right now. And he said,
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  Speaker 1: under pressure, we revert to our most practiced habits. So
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  Speaker 1: what we're really trying to get to here, and after
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  Speaker 1: the break, I'm going to talk about the habits that
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  Speaker 1: we can practice and the way that we can help
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  Speaker 1: Amy's son. But it's really about getting the reps in
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  Speaker 1: when there's less pressure so that when the pressure comes.
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  Speaker 3: It's your natural response.
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  Speaker 1: Spot on, yeah. So the last thing I want to
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  Speaker 1: say before the break is this. When it comes to
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  Speaker 1: effective emotion regulation... researchers believe that kids have it figured
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  Speaker 1: out reasonably well in most circumstances, somewhere between the age
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  Speaker 1: of eight and 10. Now, obviously, we know plenty of
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  Speaker 1: adults who are not very good at it, plenty of
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  Speaker 1: teenagers who struggle with it. Emotion regulation is not guaranteed
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  Speaker 1: to be in place by eight to 10 years of age,
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  Speaker 1: but kids usually get pretty half decent at it by
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  Speaker 1: about then. So we're talking about a five-year-old, a six-year-old.
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  Speaker 1: This is something that is still developing and developing slowly,
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  Speaker 1: not nearly fast enough for us. So we're After the break,
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  Speaker 1: let's talk about what we can do to help kids
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  Speaker 1: to regulate better, given that they don't have theory of mind,
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  Speaker 1: they don't have emotional regulation capacities, they don't have behavior
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  Speaker 1: regulation capacities, and they don't have the ability to use
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  Speaker 1: their words the way that we want them to.
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  Speaker 3: That's next.
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  Speaker 1: It's another tricky question that we're answering on the Happy
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  Speaker 1: Families podcast today. Kylie, you've highlighted the importance of practice
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  Speaker 1: at home as one useful strategy that parents can use
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  Speaker 1: when kids are becoming dysregulated at school. Before I jump in,
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  Speaker 1: is there any other strategy or idea that you've found
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  Speaker 1: helpful with our six kids or that comes to mind
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  Speaker 1: for you?
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  Speaker 3: When your child comes home and you know that they've
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  Speaker 3: had a hard day, or you may have had a
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  Speaker 3: message from the teacher to say that something's gone wrong
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  Speaker 3: in the classroom that day, berating our children or flooding
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  Speaker 3: them with questions and Our own emotions around those experiences
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  Speaker 3: are only going to impact them negatively. So creating a
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  Speaker 3: beautiful space where your kids can come home, they can
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  Speaker 3: have some cuddles, they can spend some time, you know,
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  Speaker 3: just kind of letting it all go before you sit
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  Speaker 3: down and have gentle conversations with them. about how they
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  Speaker 3: might respond differently. It's really important.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So let me jump into two things. I'm
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  Speaker 1: only going to share two brief ones because I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to give Amy too much to have to comb through.
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  Speaker 1: The first is this. When we have conversations with our kids,
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  Speaker 1: it ties in with what you're saying here. When emotions
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  Speaker 1: are hot or high, There's not a lot that soaks
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  Speaker 1: in or sinks in. And so therefore, it's way better
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  Speaker 1: to have conversations when emotions are cool. And that includes
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  Speaker 1: maybe a role play or a bit of a dress rehearsal,
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  Speaker 1: those kinds of things. When emotions are cool, the kids
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  Speaker 1: get to practice it so that when they're in the
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  Speaker 1: hot seat and they're ready to blow up, they can remember, oh,
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  Speaker 1: hang on, yesterday afternoon I did this thing and it worked.
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  Speaker 1: But the second thing that I want to emphasize is
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  Speaker 1: that we're talking about five-year-olds here. And so usually on
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  Speaker 1: Thursday afternoon, they're not going to be in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of this moment with another classmate where they're ready to
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  Speaker 1: lash out and go, oh, hang on. Yesterday afternoon, mum
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  Speaker 1: and I did a little practice and I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: do it right now. They might, but it's unlikely. So
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  Speaker 1: the best thing that we can do outside of talking
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  Speaker 1: about it and practicing it at home is just literally
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  Speaker 1: sitting down and problem solving. The more that the kids
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  Speaker 1: can come up with their own solutions, come up with
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  Speaker 1: their own ideas, even if it's as simple as saying,
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  Speaker 1: I need to go and get help. I need to
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  Speaker 1: ask somebody if they can be involved. I need to
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  Speaker 1: walk away. I need to go get a drink. I
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  Speaker 1: need to go to the bathroom. Anything that they can
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  Speaker 1: do to make safer, healthier, wiser decisions in the moment.
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  Speaker 1: That's what we're working towards. Amy, I would recommend that
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  Speaker 1: no matter how much you talk about this, it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be a little bit of hard work with a five-year-old.
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  Speaker 1: The good news is he's going to get better at
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  Speaker 1: it over time. And the more you work on it
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  Speaker 1: together and have nice, easy, comfortable, relaxed conversations about it
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  Speaker 1: and solve problems together, the better he will get at it.
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  Speaker 3: I think coming from a place of compassion, So often
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  Speaker 3: we see them as the aggressor and so we want
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  Speaker 3: to get them in trouble because they've done the wrong thing.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we just want to teach them to not do
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  Speaker 1: it anymore, right? Best of intentions.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. But if our children feel like their emotions and
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  Speaker 3: feelings are understood and that you're coming from a place
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  Speaker 3: of compassion, today seems like it was a really hard day.
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  Speaker 3: And acknowledging that, it gives them, they feel safe to
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  Speaker 3: be able to then explore.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect. Let's wrap up with this. A lot of
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  Speaker 1: this has to do with maturity. This is very much
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  Speaker 1: a developmental issue. But some of it has to do
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  Speaker 1: with culture, potentially, in the classroom. And one other element
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  Speaker 1: really matters here. If you were to never have a
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  Speaker 1: conversation with your child about this stuff at all and
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  Speaker 1: just hope that they'll mature out of it, there's a
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  Speaker 1: chance that they might. But depending on the surrounding prevailing culture,
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  Speaker 1: there's also a chance that it will be aggravated. It
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  Speaker 1: will get worse. We had one of our children in
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  Speaker 1: a class where there was some really disturbing behavior and
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  Speaker 1: it did not get better. It required our ongoing intervention.
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  Speaker 1: But with conversations combined with your child's development, there's every
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  Speaker 1: reason to expect that he will start to get the
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  Speaker 1: hang of it sometime in the next three months or
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  Speaker 1: six months or nine months or perhaps the next 12 months.
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  Speaker 1: Every child works on a different developmental time frame. You
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  Speaker 1: can create or at least influence the culture enormously by
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  Speaker 1: the quality of the conversations that you have. And those
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  Speaker 1: conversations really matter. So good luck, Amy. Thanks so much
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  Speaker 1: for your tricky question. We hope that's been helpful. If
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: you have a tricky question, email us, podcasts at happyfamilies.com.au.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Send us a voice note and we'll do everything we
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: can to answer it on the pod. Alternatively, happyfamilies.com.au. Scroll down,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: press the record button and start. talking we appreciate so
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: much the work of justin raw from bridge media he
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: looks after sound and audio engineering and also mim hammond
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: who provides our admin and other support more information to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: make your family happier is available at happyfamilies.com.au the pod
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: is back on thursday with a conversation with dr joe
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: winchester about kids deciding on careers it's that time of
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: the year where school is starting to wind up for
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: our seniors what do you want to do with the
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: rest of your life We'll talk about that question and
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: more in our next episode of the Happy Families podcast.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: See you then.