Latest / Pelvic PT Rising / Authenticity & Value in Cash-Based Care: An Interview with Danny Matta

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Authenticity & Value in Cash-Based Care: An Interview with Danny Matta · Pelvic PT Rising

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: In the last 10 years, our field has gone from an unknown specialty to a household name.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This brings unprecedented opportunities, but we need to rise up to meet them and give our patients the care that they deserve.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: In order to help others get better, we need to be better.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This podcast will help you to become more confident with your patients, more successful in your practice or business and a leader in pelvic health, and we're going to have some fun along the way.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Join us as we rise together.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We're Jesse and Nicole Cozine, founders of Pelvic Sanity Physical Therapy and the creators of the Pelvic PT Huddle, and this is Pelvic PT Rising.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Pelvic PT Rising podcast with Jesse and Nicole Cozine.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, nicole, hello.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I am so excited that we have Danny Matei on the podcast with us this time.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: This is going to be a whole lot of firsts for us, nicole, so this podcast is actually going to be simulcast if that's the right word as a Pelvic PT Rising podcast, but also on Danny's podcast, the PT Entrepreneur podcast, and it is just so great to talk to Danny.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: He's one of my favorite people to actually just sit down and talk with whenever we get a chance, whether it's on air, in person, whatever it is, he's awesome.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Super awesome and what's funny is that we were kind of trying to figure out when did we actually get connected with Danny, what the heck happened.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And we do a quick shout out to Chantay Cofield in the podcast that we did with Danny, but Chantay actually introduced me to Danny.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'd sort of heard of him and what he was doing and I was talking to Chantay a little bit about Pelvic Sanity's growth and what we needed to, what next steps we needed to do in terms of taking it to the next level, and Chantay was like, oh, you need to reach out to my friend, danny Matei, and that was gosh, I don't know.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: 2017, 2018?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: .
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: No, actually it was winter of 2019.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And then it was so interesting because we did a discovery call with Danny and there was one of the more influential things that we've done.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: We actually didn't end up working with him for a couple of different reasons.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: We were on the larger side at that point for what he was working with and we weren't sure that the performance model really translates to Pelvic Health and still think that there's a lot of differences between those two models.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: But just left that call so impressed with him and his honesty and just how matter of fact he was with.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Here are the parts of my program that I think could be really beneficial.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Here are the things that aren't as helpful for you or that you might be past, and it's just a decision for you on whether that seems to make sense, and I always loved that style.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I've been on quite a few discovery calls for different programs over the years and I've always hated that hard sell, push you to do something, sales tactic stuff and he was so not like that, just so genuine and honest, and I've always wanted to emulate that with the way that we market and the way that we talk to you guys.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: So huge influence on us from that and we were thinking, of course, too.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: 2019, winter we're rocking and rolling.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: We've got five full-time clinicians.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: We're growing like gangbusters.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: We're growing out of our space.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: There's literally nothing that could happen that could slow us down.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: The world would literally have to stop in order for pelvic sanity and it did, then it did and in retrospect that was when pelvic PT rising was born, honestly, and so it's just interesting to look back and see where life took a turn and overall we've always followed what Danny's been doing.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: We've always really respected what he's done in terms of the business coaching Honestly, being a pioneer in the cash-based business mentorship that he's one of the founders of doing that and we've just always really respected everything that he's done.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So we're pretty excited and it's kind of like a full circle moment to have him on our podcast and a couple of just things we want to point out because you got to listen to this whole entire podcast.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I know it's a little bit longer than the pelvic PT rising stuff that you normally do, but, man, please listen to the full thing because I think a lot of things that you'll start to hear with convergent evolution about cash-based business models, both in pelvic and the performance side, and also a through line with when you're choosing a business coach.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: We want you to find your people.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: We have a really funny evolution of the conversation where Danny describes what his retreats are like in his program.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: They're like boot camps.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: They're just giving them up at 5.30 in the morning.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: They're doing burpees on the beach, they're doing all those things and we're just like, oh yeah, we took people out on a boat and had a glass of wine.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: We took some wine, did sound bath.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: The next day People are crying because of the epiphanies they had during this sound bath and yoga experience.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So I'm like I will not be getting up and doing any sort of burpee on the beach, I will lay there in Savasana.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So, anyways, I just feel like it was a really.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It's a really cool moment and you have to see how we ended up getting to that moment in the podcast, so make sure you listen to the full thing.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and check out Danny's stuff.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Especially if you are any kind of performance based person, he is your guy.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Honestly, he's fantastic.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Love all the stuff that he does.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: He's got the PT entrepreneur podcast.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: He's got his business as PT Biz.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: That's physicaltherapybizcom.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: You can find him on Instagram, danny Matei PT.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: We'll put those in the show notes as well, but he's a great person to follow, has a great perspective and whether or not it translates necessarily to pelvic health, it's always thoughtful, it's always genuine, it's always authentic and I really appreciate that about him.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: So hope you guys are going to enjoy this conversation with Danny Matei.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Guys, we are so excited to be joined today by Danny Matei of PT Biz.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Danny, it is so good to be talking with you.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like this interview is a long time coming.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had, honestly, for the last what 20 minutes or so we've been talking before the podcast, and it's been great just with that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: So I'm excited to just have a conversation with the two of you, especially because of how influential you are within the pelvic health world, pelvic practice world, and that's such a growing niche.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: It's interesting to me because I remember when I went to PT school, we had a professor and I went to Baylor I was in the army.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: No one wanted to go do pelvic health, right, like it was like we're sports ortho only, and she was like let me tell everybody in this room something, so like if you want job security, you go into pelvic health, and here's why.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: So he goes.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: There's way more vaginas than there are pelvic health providers, and at the time, I was like I don't know what you're talking about.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Like I just want to deal with like ACL injuries.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: It's obviously not just women's health.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: It's because everyone has a pelvic floor, but the growth of that niche in particular seems faster than any other niche in the profession.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Maybe I'm like biased with that.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: I'd love to know what you think with that, though, because it does seem like it's exploded, especially over the last like five years.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally has exploded.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And so Sarah Reardon was at our Pelvicon conference.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: So she's the vagina whisperer and she's based out of New Orleans, right, so she was like she's a huge person on social media.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: She's got more than like 500,000 followers.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: She posted on at the Pelvicon stage a growth chart of the search term of pelvic floor and it is literally an exponential growth pattern on the number of people that are searching it, and so I think that it's one of the specialties in physical therapy that has really benefited from social media and the just overall educational piece that goes along with all the kinds of pelvic floor disorders.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what's driving a lot of people to be like, hey, that is a problem, I do deal with that and I don't want to.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, now, where do we go?
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And so we're like in a perfect place to like capture that excitement about you can get help for something that people have been suffering for for years.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's where some of that comes with.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: That growth chart was pretty nuts.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I think that works so well in the cash model too, because you're going directly to the consumer, Whereas in the insurance model you have to go and change the mind of a doctor to get them to prescribe physical therapy after a baby.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that's going to take this generation of doctors, frankly, just dying off and just bringing a whole new one in.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: That's like a 30 year process, Like we don't have time for that shit.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And this is where you're seeing like cash practices take off, just like you're seeing in the performance space being able to educate and put that information out there and get patients to come to them directly.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've always been surprised it feels like the US is decades behind other countries in terms of the pelvic health approach, especially it just being intertwined with the birth process.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Like I remember, I had a chance to go teach down in Australia.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: This is when I was working for the Stretz and we were teaching movement mobility concepts at a gym and I was talking to a physio and she worked with postpartum women and she was saying that you know, obviously it's a socialized medical system but she's like you know, it's just like part of it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Like you know, you have a baby and then they have their visits lined up pre and post and it's not really like a choice, it's not.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: It's not a choice, but it's just very accepted, it's part of the process and I'm like that's totally different than us.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like most people don't even know what that is.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: They just tell you to do a bunch of kiegels and then you're going to be good to go.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: We obviously know that's not the case.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: So I've always been interested in in like I don't know if it's just because it's a third party payer model or whatever it might be, and maybe they're trying to like not have to pay for certain things, but I just couldn't understand why, if we know this is such an important thing, is it not just part of the process?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're, we're as confused as you are.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Like it seriously is like one of our huge I can get on a soapbox on it for like an hour.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: We will not be doing that on this podcast, but it seriously it's so.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous when you think about, like, the amount of time that you are pregnant, which also creates just a ton of pelvic floor issues just by the body changes that happen.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: And then also you have this marathon of a physical event, right, you've been, I'm sure, in the room with Ashley when she's had two, right.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: So it's just like it's pretty gnarly.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And then everyone, and then you have a new blight to take care of.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And then it's like, yeah, good luck, you just freaking tore muscle Things have been strained for now, you know, a year and good luck.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: So.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: But you're right in that it's automatic in some other countries and it's not here, and so I think that's again where, like, just the overall education of the person experiencing the issues has really driven a lot of the seeking help for these things.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we also say that Danny and you and I can probably attest to this.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I think there's a huge gendered piece of this too, because it was seen that public health was a women's focused thing, and still the predominant patient population is female.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Like if you or I had passed like a bowling ball out of our butt, like we would be in the doctor's office like demanding care.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Right, how many erectile dysfunction pills are there out there?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: You can't turn on the television without seeing all that stuff.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And yet it's like, oh cool, like a pat on the back, you just had a baby.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Good luck with the rest of your life.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's crazy.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Well, we wouldn't have a baby, that's what would happen.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: The population zero.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: We're good, we'll just let it end.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Because the male pelvic health patients that we see are so different.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: It's like y'all have something wrong with your penis and it's like the world is ending.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I will do whatever it is.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: You want to stick your finger at my butt?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Totally fine.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Can I come 12 times a week?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Will that fix it faster?
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: We just need to get this fixed, because it needs to be erect when I want it to be erect, we need to have an orgasm when we want that to happen, and all of the things.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: So it's actually I love working with men in that way because they're like so motivated to get whenever it is like fixed.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: It's so fun Talk about sales man.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: You know it's like you got to sell them on the why, like it's not hard to sell that right?
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: If something's not working that's important to you, it's very obvious why you need to get some help.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: In fact, we had a practice that we had a chance to work with for a while, and its name is Lance Franks.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you know Lance.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Lance and your pants.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Lance and your pants.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: The best eyes.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I go, bro, that's the best social media handle I've ever heard of for what you do.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I remember talking to him and I'm like this is just, it's a bigger problem than people are probably aware of.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: But to have visibility and to also make like less I don't know intense for people, make it a little bit, you know, funnier, even with the name of the social media account.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Well, like the education side, it was great and he had people flying in from like all over the world to work with them.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I'm like this is amazing, right, but obviously there is a problem, there's a niche that can, that can solve it, and the value for what we do is obviously there, right, Regardless of whatever insurance says.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: I think that's one thing that I've noticed with the businesses that we've had a chance to work with and most of the public health practices that we work with, they're like very sports, like ortho, return to movement, you know, like running, lifting, that kind of stuff.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: That's my primary sort of, I guess, experience.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: But even with that, what I found is they seem to the virality of helping somebody and then the friends that they talk to is like no other niche that I've ever seen.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, totally, Because, and it's just so intertwined in that could you go to soccer game and then like, what else are you talking about?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: It's just like.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: It's just like a little social circle, so built in social circle for those people that have kids and stuff.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, word of mouth referrals are like huge for us and we still have to teach people how to ask for them and stuff like that and help people to be able to talk about something that is, you know, not your typical dinner table conversation.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: But again, I feel like the more people have heard about it, now it's not so super weird to talk about it, which is just really really cool to see from someone that has absolutely no problem talking about anything like that.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: It's just really fun.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Have you guys seen a big transition in the time that you've had your practice from, At least for me?
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I noticed initially I was selling people on why they would want to go somewhere where they weren't using their insurance, and now what I see is there's way more options, so it's like, well, why would I choose you?
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you've noticed the same thing in terms of your area, which I would much rather have that second conversation, meaning there's more awareness and all that but have you noticed any big changes that have happened during the time from you start your practice to now?
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think 100%, and I think that's it was actually really interesting.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: We were talking about this when we did a big website revamp, and now this is actually how we teach our mentees to think about too is exactly that way, danny is how are you setting yourself apart?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: It used to be enough to have a website that just says, hey, we could help you, right when it was just a brand new thing.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Hey, they recognize their name on it like great.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Now it's saying, hey, why is this better than the hospital place?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Why is this better than the ortho place that does this as an add on and has a curtain instead of a door?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Right, and you're 100% right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: We ended up having to revamp and do a lot of new things with yet just explaining to folks exactly what they should be looking for.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Same thing with what you guys are doing.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Like, what should it look like to have great physical therapy?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Now it's more than just you need it.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: It's informed consumer, which is, again, I think, really plays well to a cash practice in a place that spends time with people and especially in a public health setting.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's, it's critical.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like more of an education element.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: You know, like I always talk to people about it in terms of work, clinicians, but it seems like we're more like consultants for the human body, like people.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: You know, this is like our vehicle in life, right, like it's.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: It's not us, it's just how we get around, Like we're something we probably can't even explain, but like we're the drivers of all this stuff.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: But the body is our vehicle in life and and being able to educate someone on things that we know that we maybe take for granted, even simple stuff.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Like I've been training with a friend of mine and he basically was like, hey, what should I do for working out?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, do you don't have time to program for you?
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Like, are you serious?
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Like you honestly want to like work out?
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, I haven't worked out in like 20 years.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: I said, okay, I trained from six to seven, monday through Friday, in my garage.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Here you can show up, don't be late, you're going to do what I do, all modify stuff for you.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: And he's come three months in a row now, straight right, and he's lost like 25 pounds.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: He's not taking prescription medication anymore.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Like his sleep is so much better, his energy is so much better, his back doesn't hurt anymore and he's like oh my God, this is the greatest thing I've ever done, when, when more people do this, you know, and I go yeah, I know, dude, I get it Like I talk about this all the time.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: You know, just like train effectively, whatever, but we take it for granted so much.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: And what's funny to me is this guy's in wine sales.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: So he sells like wine to restaurants and builds out wine menus and all kinds of stuff like really interesting guy.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: But he's like my junior sales guys make more than your like senior physical therapists make and you guys have a doctorate and you're helping people with literally life changing, muscle skull tinnitus and other health injuries.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: He is like why is that?
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Like that Right, there's such a mismatch and I don't really know the answer.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I'd love to know what you guys think in terms of like why is what we do undervalued by the economy?
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: But like selling liquor is far more valuable, I guess.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two ways to make your back pain go away, and only one of them involves drinking wine.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Right, that's right, but I don't know.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's an insurance thing top down.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: That's the game that everybody's been trapped in and playing, and it kind of goes into the money mindset thing that you have to see.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: We see it all the time as we're coaching folks.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I don't even think that.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: First of all, none of you guys as clinicians got into this for the money.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Right, you got into it because of what you love doing and helping people and all the things, and there's nothing except for now, I think, cash physical therapy.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: That is taking the roof off of the limits that have been imposed by an insurance company.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: That was just the limit of what could happen, and if everybody is getting the same ish reimbursement from the insurance company, then all of you guys as clinicians have a cap on what you can make in order to have that be a profitable business.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And now I feel like cash is coming along and taking the roof off of that and as cash based business owners, we can afford to pay our people more.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: We make more ourselves.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I think that's really the only thing I see changing any of that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: What do you think, cole?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of agree.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think that.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really have any much more to say about that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Good job, jesse.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Well done.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well done.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: It is fascinating and there's a lot of us too.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I think that's the other thing is there's a lot of schools and we're like one of the more profitable graduate education programs to have, not for us but for the actual universities, which I always thought was fascinating.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I was like I guess we are, huh, no wonder there's so many damn PT programs and the average debt coming out is like in the 140s range, you know, for people graduating in PT school and the average starting salary is like half that right.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: But what does that tell me about those people is they are doing this because it's not about the money.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: They're doing it because they want to help people, like the service element of it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: But this sort of idea of like a service or a labor of love, if you were going to say, right, it's like it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from actually making a good living, especially for something that the individual actually values far more than insurance does.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: And I always found that is so interesting and it's it's, but it's getting people to realize that that are clinicians.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: That's the hard part, I know, for you, like when you work with people on the money mindset stuff.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: How do you help them through that Like, how do you help them realize you're worth a lot more than $120 a visit, which is Medicare says what you're worth.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and honestly, I had to work through that quite a bit myself and Jesse.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I think being outside of the field helped me a lot to be like, oh yeah, like I am helping people with way more than just the one thing that they came in here for.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And so now I mean we have changed the way that we talk to people coming in about like I want you to leave public sanity a better person.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: It's like that's the vehicle to a better life, like public sanity coming into here once a week for this short amount of time that you're going to be here in the big scheme of things is like you're going to be a better person.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've always had that inherently in my vision, but then I was always capped with insurance and whatever, and so now that we can actually build that into our business model, I think it's been really, really cool to see how we can truly transform people.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: But I do find it interesting to be on the coaching side now, because I don't feel like people articulate very well what they're good at, what they can help people with, and I feel like they're still operating in a box that PT schools showed them and insurance companies show them, and so that's what I feel like has been really interesting to try to get them out of that, because not only is it money mindset, but now it's a confidence thing, it's being able to actually say I'm really good at this thing, my skill set, I can help you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And I know that in the physical therapy world we're so often like, oh, we don't fix people, but it's like we fucking do actually, like we have a lot of skills that can fix the shit that you commit for, like I get that it's a shared model of goal setting and all that bullshit, but like also it's like we have a big, huge skill set and a knowledge based about the body that's really valuable that not anywhere else in the medical community has.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So I feel like and I don't know if you see this, I'm going to throw that question back to you too Like, how do you coach that?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Because we just see it so difficult.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: We say like, when we're talking about like build, even talking about on their website, like okay, what makes you different?
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: And they're like silence.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I cannot say it Like, do you find that difficult for folks too?
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I think copywriting in general is very hard, so if we're talking about expressing yourself through words in a succinct way on a website, that's really hard, right?
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I feel like what they associate themselves with is whatever their credentials are and we're credentialed, we love credentials.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: You know Really Letters, all the things.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, yes, and the more letters the better.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: But no one knows what that means, except for other clinicians, right, and that's it.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: So I feel like the challenge is they don't really know what their value is.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: They've never really been shown it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: There's no table where they can go look it up.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: I guess you can look at insurance, but that's like $75 a visit.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: You'd see as many people as you can see.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: You know it's a terrible model.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: So part of it, I think, is making associations between other industries that are generally like B for service models, and I mean Legals and Easy One, cpas, other professionals in some degree.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: But if you look at even where we're at now with insurance deductibles being so high and I'll give you a great example like I had to go to the dermatologist for the first time, I think, in my life a year ago and I go in there and it was something like super simple and the lady was I spent maybe 10 minutes with the actual dermatologist, right, and we have a very high deductible.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: We're self-employed, it is what it is, and I leave there.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like I spent 10 minutes with this person and it was $400.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like what the hell, man?
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I did the math on it and I think this is an incredible hourly rate, good for this for this person.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: But I did not feel like I got $400 worth of value from this person while I was there, considering she basically just googled something while I was in the office and I'm like man, I can go in to a good cash-based provider for a musculoskeletal injury and I feel like I leave there knowing so much more, feeling, hey, maybe I'm unsure and it's I'm anxious about, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to do this, this or this or and there's lots of different types of problems that we help people with but either way, it's causing stress, it's causing them to have to worry about something and even if after that first initial evaluation, they're like okay, I feel like I'm in the right place, I feel like this person has listened to me, they understand me, I have a plan for it of what we're going to do, like that's incredibly valuable and very rare in the medical community almost non-existent in the medical community, right?
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: So I think for them if we can say just think about these experiences compared to these other ones and what you know, your attorney is charging to put together a document per hour, like you're not going to be very close to that, but do you feel like what you do is just as valuable as a non-compete agreement or something like that for a business Like I?
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: And I think that's where they started to see the difference.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: It also helps when they start to see their first patients come through.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: So once they start to see their first patients come through, and those people are just like this is amazing and they start sending everybody like if they felt like you were robbing them, they wouldn't tell their brother to come and see you.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: You know they just wouldn't say anything because they'd be embarrassed.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: They just got swindled by somebody and I think that's what we were thinking and it's so irrational when you think about it.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: But we're so scared to have that conversation because we would do it for free.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And that's what's an interesting, odd sort of frustration for people.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Is you like this so much?
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: You would do it for free, which is amazing, but life isn't free.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: You got to pay your mortgage, you got to buy groceries and also, just because you would do for free doesn't mean it's not really really valuable.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: And what a cool opportunity to do something you would do for free and make a great living doing the same thing.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: It's like such a great way to, you know, match them up together.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: So that's usually where we end up going with people, but it's a continual problem, I think, for people.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I would say it took me years, honestly, years, before I felt comfortable and I didn't even have like any sort of option for people to see more than one visit, and I didn't even schedule follow ups.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Like when I first started working with people, I'd be like yeah, I mean, if you feel like you need to come back, just my schedules online, come back and see me.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: They're like Well, I obviously want to, so can you schedule?
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Now I'm like Well, you know, just do what.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: You get home, maybe change your mind.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Like I would talk them out of coming to see me because I was so scared to talk about money.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: It was so dumb.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: So I can relate.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: I think we all can and we should, because we're not doing this, because we're trying to make a bunch of money.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I honestly never thought I'd make more than $100,000 a year in my career ever and I was cool with that.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: That's why I went to school for it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I was like All right, that's fine, I'm good with that, I really I like this career.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: I think I'll want to do it every day.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: So it's a continual problem, but I think it's worth solving.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: The people that you have to solve it with are very much worth helping because they're doing it the right way.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's so fun to see that little light bulb turn on and folks, and, and then them getting excited and them getting better, because then I feel like it's like a positive feedback system, right.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: It's like when they believe it, then it's easier to say, and then it's you know, now the next sale or whatever you want to call it, is that much easier.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I think sometimes as business owners, it almost is a little easier.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Most things are more difficult when you get employees.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Sometimes this actually helps with the money mindset piece, though, because now it's not yourself that you're protecting, you're protecting your employees and wanting to provide this amazing job that you wish you'd been able to have and help them pay off their student loan debt, and all that and I think that can sometimes be it takes it away from like feeling you're taking the person's money and putting it in your pocket.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: You're taking it and you're providing these amazing jobs.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes can really help with that, and I think it's always interesting too.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: We've a couple of times given people homework to go out and like spend money on yourself.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: If you're not willing to go, spend $150 to get a massage or to go to acupuncture or go to a mental health therapist, you don't even know what the feeling is like for the people who are in your office, Like you've never actually been put yourself in that patient's position and all of a sudden they go and it's like oh wait, I did love that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I wish they had booked me out more.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I wish that there's something about that too, of just experiencing it from the patient side?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I think yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm interested.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I had a real fucked up relationship with money.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: It was like very much, you know, like scarcity, mindset, depression era, grandparents that would like boil a ham and we'd eat that the whole week, that we would visit them.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: So for me, it was always just like I viewed money as this really scarce thing that there was never enough of.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: That's a really unhealthy way to look at it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: And on the flip side, I see some people and they just they're like they have no respect for whatsoever.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: They always find themselves in consumer debt and really bad place.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: So how was that for you?
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Because I'm assuming, based on our conversation, you have a relatively healthy relationship with money and everything that goes around that now, but, like, how was it for you getting there?
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Which side did you have to come from?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Were you more like me where it was like more scarcity, or was it more like oh, this is just whatever and it's completely fruitless.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So what's actually really interesting is that Jesse and I have very different backgrounds and we've actually had to work on sort of coming to our own like cuisine, like Jesse and Nicole, family money mindset and money rolls, and we were really big fans of Ramit Sivhi, right, yeah, right.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So, but I came from so my dad is like firstborn Mexican son who, like you know, didn't go to school and, you know, just learned to trade and computer sales and stuff and then he, like built his own family money.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: But I always feel like he lived well above his means trying to provide for us, and so I never saw like responsible money management.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: It was always like it'll be there, here you are, and then we never got taught how to manage it well.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So what that looked like for me in PT school was I'm going to invest in myself, I'm going to take out the maximum amount of student loans and I'm going to spend that student loan money like it's my job, because of course I'm going to come out with a doctorate and I'm going to make good money in air quotes and when I come out not understanding that, that, that the debt to income ratio is really a problem in our field, and so I mean, I had like massive negative net worth.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't wasn't even tracking anything, my spending habits were not great.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: And then I come to Jesse, who comes from a very entrepreneurial family and you can go and speak to your your experience.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one, and it is interesting that we're all on one side of this and I don't think anybody ever comes into this just ready to go on their money mindset stuff.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: But I was definitely on the other side.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I was frugal and I was proud of it.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: It was actually really hard for me, as the business grew and we got more successful, to enjoy the fruits of that, whereas, like I was so responsible.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: It was just sitting in the bank and cool like great, we've socked that away and make sure you put that and we make sure we max out the 401k and the IRA and all the things.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: And not being able to, you know, you know, I like look down on people who drove a nice car.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It was like, oh, I see somebody rolling down street number, say, because I'm going to walk in front of them, I'm gonna walk real slow, screw them by the Mercedes.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: And then Jesse drove like an old Subaru that like yeah it was Flintstone in my ass around town because the engine didn't work right, and you know so I think we actually ended up being really good for each other and kind of coming into like a healthier.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: But you're right, it's a huge thing.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It's been something we've been working on for 10 years.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: We do monthly, like Cozine Inc, planning meetings with finances and net worth and all that stuff, because I don't know, I think a lot of people only have negative conversations about money.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And then it's obviously and you know this better than anybody, danny it's amplified when you guys are in business together too.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: It's not just your personal finances, but now you have the potential conflict of maybe disagreeing about how to spend money in the business or how much to take out Like.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that if you're not on the same page as a married couple with that too, it's going to be a problem.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I think that's probably the biggest sort of stressor for a relationship.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: From what I've seen and fortunately for Ashley and I, she's very much.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: She's like yeah, I just think you're better at this to me, so like, just fill me in on what I need to know and I'll sit her down and like what kind of what you're talking about?
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: A couple times a year I'm very to be very infrequent when I do this, but when I do, it has to be short and like to the point.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: It's like here's where we're at, here's where we're at, you know, this time last year she's like, oh cool, we're in a good spot, right, whatever.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: But also she comes from you know, a military enlisted, you know one parent working background.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Like they didn't have a lot of money, so it wasn't like it's not like she's trying to keep up with her friends that are all like ball out of control or something like that, right, which is really helpful, and I think that can cause a lot of stress, but like having that sort of ability to be basically conservative but not be a miser is a hard thing to do.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I'm actually I'm reading this book right now on this topic.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever heard of this book, but you probably really like it.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: It's called Taking Stock and it is a relatively short book, which helps me because I will drop off like halfway through most books.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: But this was written by a physician who was an internal med doc, had his own practice and he basically got into the fire movement you know the financial independence, retire, early retired, got bored and was like, well, what do I want to do?
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: You know, what is it that I'm interested in?
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: And he realized that he wanted to become a hospice physician.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: So just at the end of people's lives, and what's really interesting about it is it's like he was writing stories of people at the end of their life.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: They're talking about what they wish they would have done different or that they are like, really proud that they did.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Very similar to like the the regrets of the dying, I believe is the book that was written about the hospice nurse in Australia.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: That kind of wrote the five most common regrets.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: But this is basically how do you take this sort of like vehicle that we all need to understand and money, but not let it consume you, not let it negatively ruin you because you don't know how to manage it and line it up with what you are, what you value, which is hard, because I don't think a lot of people actually look at, well, what do I want this to support?
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Not necessarily like what do I need to do in order to get this is what most people do.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: So I ironically, I'm actually listening to it right now and I found it like just so spot on to have that sort of healthy, healthy balance and to have that perspective of people that are like, like we see people throughout their whole lifespan, but not right before they die.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Right, like that's a different perspective.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: We get to see like, what does it look like when you have good health?
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: What are you doing to maintain yourself when you're you're in your 70s, 80s and you're cognitively sharp and physically, physically able to do what you want to do?
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: And to see his perspective on this and him choosing to go back to is really fascinating.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: So you know, I think that most people, from what I see, they really struggle with this.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's one of the biggest struggles that most people, that most people have, and as soon as, like, you're able to get that compartmentalized or not really organized, I should say the stress is so much better.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: You know just even something you're talking about, like tracking net worth.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: That's something that I started doing a few years ago and when I first had to like get everything together and compile everything, and I'm like this sucks man, like I got to find out what all these account numbers are in us and and like do I have insurance?
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: And.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: But now it takes me about 15 minutes a month, maybe 20 minutes, unless I'm really trying to dive into something every month.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: As soon as I'm done, I'm like I feel so good.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you just sort of it lets your brain just calm the hell down.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because whether I can or not, it's what we have to deal with.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: And then I don't know, I found that doing that like helps our goal setting a lot better, and then we can actually like compartmentalize our goals a little bit differently, because now we know it's like, okay, we're good doing with doing what we're doing.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: And then and that was a not some, that was something that, like, jesse had to teach me like I didn't know how to be thoughtful about that, you know, and I was always just being like Matt's and there's a big red sign over there.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to look at it, you know and they'll be like well, I'm just going to put this on the credit card then.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, it's frustrating yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: For your spouse like and that's, or this can apply to a business partner as well.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Right, because it's that times a lot more with a business partner, because this is you're running your business, right?
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: So if you have one business partner that hasn't had a respect for money, or one business partner that's just like no, no, we can't do that.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: We can't do anything Like, we can't do anything fun.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: We can enjoy anything like it's, it sucks and like.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Finding that middle path, I think, is very, very challenging and takes a lot of conversations that a lot of people avoid, because normally if that conversation has friction it leads to, you know, to a fight and then so they're like all right, why don't want that?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: So they just don't even talk about it.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Totally One.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Business finance is so related to your personal finance and business stress is so related to that stuff as well.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: So this we actually in our training stuff we talk a ton about network.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: It's the thing I probably get the most pushback on for people for all those same reasons, danny.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Right, it's like, oh, it's going to be such a pain.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I don't want to look at my student loan debt.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: What if my number is negative?
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: But man, I always liken it to if you had like one number that could perfectly encapsulate your health, your cholesterol, your exercise, whatever else you were doing.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Like you had one number like we would look at that and that would be an important thing to look at, like that's what net worth is for your financial health.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like there is a number like that that actually encapsulates all that stuff.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And so sometimes when people are so in the weeds with oh my gosh, I had these many cancellations this week, or I had this person know show, or this person asked for their money back on a package or whatever that is, I feel like that's usually coming from a place of financial, personal financial issue and not knowing your numbers there.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times when we actually work through, like what does the business need to be making?
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: How many patients do you actually need to be seeing to grow your net worth, to be going in the right direction with where you want to be going?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: It's way lower than people expect and it just takes that entire stress off where you only need to see 12 patients a week or whatever it is for you, and you see 13,.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Even if you had 12 cancellations, who cares?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: You still saw 13, like you're going in the right direction here.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: That's a great point.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I haven't thought of it as like that, like an internal comparison right, like if it's like one blood biomarker you could pull and you're like, oh I'm good, you know that doesn't quite exist yet, that I know of at least.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: But on the on the net worth side, what I think I think you're right about is if you have a negative net worth which there are people listening to this that do, and I've been there as well and at least you need to know where you're fucking starting.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Because if you don't even know, then how are you going to know if you're making progress?
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: So if the stress of it is causing you to avoid it that much, you've got to realize that, like that's not a healthy thing.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: You need to just understand that this is where I'm at now.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, cool, I'm there.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: This is where I'm at now.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: But if you're doing the right things each month, what is nice about network tracking is you will see that go the right direction, and that's positive reinforcement.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: That's a very positive thing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's still negative, but it's not as negative as it was the month before or the year before.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: And now that I've been doing this for a few years, what's really interesting is to go back and look at, like you know, months, like three, four years ago, and you're like dang, look at us.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: We've been doing a really good job.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Like we've been making like intelligent decisions and we've been doing the right, right things and moving towards the goals that we have.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: I am interested, though, for you, like, what do you assign value to that?
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: You're like no, we do want to spend money on these things.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Like, what in your life do you value?
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Like, oh no, I'm totally down to spend money on whatever it might be.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: It's so funny.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: We just had a whole revamp of this conversation for us based on, like we're meets money rules and thinking about spending extravagantly and where can we increase that?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I mean one thing that we just did literally like a week ago as we went and got a membership at, like a bougie gym.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that like like real bougie right.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Like what's so busy about it?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Like no, there's like a bar in there it's like a club right, and so you know this club type thing.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: It's got that kind of feel.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: It's got a steam room, it's got I mean get a massage there, Like.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: But that for us was like, why are we skimping on our own health Kind of like what we're talking about about.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: If we expect our patients to come in and pay for a better health experience, better outcomes, like we have to be willing to do that ourselves, that's a big one for me.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, and we've also done like things that seem little, but like I'm flying to Boston and I'm taking a red eye because I'm in my mom era and so I'm like I don't want to be away from Clay for so long, but so I'm going first class, you know.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: So it's like awesome.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because to me it like makes sense.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I would have never done that, like even three years ago.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: What are people going to think?
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I would have never even said it on a public podcast like that.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Like there's no.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I mean I would have been like very much like, oh no, what are people going to think about that?
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: But to me it's like, yeah, it fucking makes sense and it's going to make my trip more enjoyable and I can hit the ground running on Thursday and like I mean that stuff like that.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I think we've decided that it's okay to spend money on things for convenience, things that make our life more convenient, things that make us healthier, and that's like some of the stuff that we've, even over the last year, have changed quite a bit of.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: That's such a great question.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: What's it for you, danny?
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: What were you and Ashley want to spend more on, or spend more extravagantly on?
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: This is something that, for us, we intentionally like a lot of what like we want to do because we're not going to move, but yet we both grew up moving.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: A decent amount is travel, you know, with our kids, and it's exposing.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot of value a number of ways.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Number one exposing yourself to the way other people view things and think and different parts of the country or the world, allows you to like, kind of like, take yourself out of the, the matrix which is our life on a day to day, you know, and be like oh, it is interesting, you know why they do this this way.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Or like a good example for us, like we recently took our kids to Montreal.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: They have this fall break and so we go up there for fall break and it's it's like Europe light.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Right, it's one of my favorite cities, actually, it's a great spot and so there's people speaking French and they like the public transportation is different and they value like different things as well, Like it's they stay up later, the culture is a little different, some of the food is very different, and we even went on like there's a huge outdoor market there I think it's Jean Toulon market, and it's basically like the huge open-air market and they could try all kinds of just crazy stuff that we would never really find here in Atlanta.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: And you know, for them to get exposed to those things is is really interesting.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: But what we like about it, as well as this concept, it's called memory dividends and we have this and I would write this is like my favorite thing we bought in years and this is actually.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to take any credit for this.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Ashley said get me this for Christmas.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: So I got it, for it's called a skybridge and I'm late to the party on this.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: It's basically a.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: It's like a big iPad that on it you can have chores like so all of our kids chores are on there so they can check them off in the morning or during the day.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: They all check off it like explodes, like confetti, so that's they love.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: That was awesome to do their chores more.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Then are all the whole family calendars on there like what are we making for dinner that day?
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Like everything that we have going on, because our life is kind of wild with all the stuff our kids are doing.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: But the other part is it syncs to your phone and all your pictures randomly rotate through this, right?
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: So, like you know, I was sitting this morning like drinking my coffee and there's these pictures of like us in Acadia National Park with our kids, or in we went up to the soft youth mountains in Idaho, or when we went to Hawaii and like, and you're like, oh dang, that's awesome.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: I forgot about that, but then it's a memory dividend that pops back up.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: So I view travel as, Just say, it's a huge investment for us.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: It's the thing that we probably value the most number one because we had to spend time with our family, but also just because it's such a crazy impressive world, like a, and things are so different and it's A shame to just never see some of those.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: If you have the ability to do it and as entrepreneurs, you know, we do have an opportunity if we're successful to generate time and financial freedom.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Right Now, some people might want to go out and buy a horse and maybe they're super into cars and like that, it's like art to them and they, you know, they love it and like that's, they get a lot of Benefit from that and like for me, it's not really my thing, right, I would rather go to some trip with my, with my kids and and I would spend my money on that.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: So that's the number one thing that I would say that we really look at it, we budget that into our year.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, here's these trips and our kids get.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: They get a fall break.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: It's kind of weird how it landed, as it's a super short summer.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: They get a fall break in October.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: They get the whole week of Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas, they get a February break and they get an April break for a week.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we get these.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: It's almost pseudo year round school, so they only have eight weeks in the summer.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: But on these little week long breaks, we're always like where we going, what's the next place we're going?
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: And it's long enough to go a lot of places and spend enough time somewhere to get to.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: You know, experience it at least.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: And also, now that we work with so many people all over the country and and throughout you know Canada and like we can ask people like, yeah, what do we do here?
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Or we'll meet up with them and we're like it's so fun to be able to expose Our kids to all these different areas.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: So that's number one thing for us for sure.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that meet up with them, have it be a tax write off because you had to go meet with your, your person out there.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I was thinking it through, daddy, where's the next like big trip, if we look like on the two or three year horizon, like, where's the dream trip for you guys?
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: This summer we're going to go to Italy and France and this is like I feel like a dick saying this stuff sometimes.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Like listen, let me get you some perspective, okay.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Like 10 years of entrepreneurship, fucking each shit for years, you know, grow, grow a couple of businesses and you get to the point where you know you have the opportunity to spend money on something like this, and so, anyway, I have a lot of perspective for that and I appreciate it to be able to take three weeks of my family and go to Europe.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: It's huge.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Mainly the time side is tough.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: The money side is tough as well, but that's the next one for us, and as I feel like we'll talk about travel and you're like Sound like an asshole, but anyway, so for me, like I just wanted people to have perspective for what that really takes as well, as if that's what you value, like you got a bill towards that.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: We knew we wanted to do stuff like that, and so we're going to go.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: We're flying into Venice.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: We go from Venice to Lake Garda.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: There's a huge amusement park, the biggest park in Italy on Lake Garda.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: We're taking our kids to Gardaland is what is called.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: We go to Verona.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: There's a policy and like a mini coliseum there that they do concerts and operas in.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: So we're going to go see an opera in a Roman Coliseum fucking nuts, it's crazy.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Then we go down to Bologna and then Florence and we have a bunch of little side trips were taken there and then we fly up to Paris and we're going to check out Paris pre Olympics, so before everything's crazy there, but they have the Olympics, you know the summer and then we fly back.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: So we're learning Italian as a family not very well, but we are experienced that, we're looking, we try to learn about the culture and the history and we try to learn about the language and then and then we go and we try to experience it and try to do as much as we can without being Just crazy tourists, you know, and enjoy the, enjoy the area and, yeah, we love it.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: It's one of our, our favorite things to do.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: So that's up next for us.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Cool, that sounds incredible, and I think that's one of the things I don't know.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: If you fell into this trap early in your career with this, danny, but Forgetting why you're doing it, forgetting why you're working so hard, I remember, like the first three or four years really, everything that we did before covid.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Honestly, covid was such a blessing in disguise for us To force us to slow down, but we would have said, hey, we're doing this for time freedom, we're doing this so that we can travel before we have kids, we're doing this so we can do all these different things.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And we didn't do any of it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: We were just working 80 hours a week, both of us.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes it takes it's one of the things I really love about coaching folks too Sometimes it takes that outside perspective to just be like what are you doing this for?
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with you as far as covid is concerned, because I think that for me, I think that's the busiest thing we ever were leading up to to, you know, march 2020, and it was a forced pause for people that don't pause, like for Ashley and I, that's just.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: That's just.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: We're very similar to you guys, right, it's just like no, we have shit to do and this, we've taken on these obligations.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: We have people that don't pause.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: We have people to support.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: We felt a lot of pressure during covid to be able to support our staff more than anything.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: That was probably the scariest thing for us was like man, we didn't know what to do, didn't know how long we have the clinic closed or what we would do on the finance side.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: We had like six months of cash reserves that we just keep on hands because we're Try to be very fiscally conservative.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Luckily for us, that was like a huge, you know, savior for us from a stress standpoint.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, even leading into that man, I mean I was still.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: I was still doing stuff for the stirrets.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: I was still, you know, we had started really ramping up PT biz and I just was overwhelmed.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: I had so much stuff going on like within from November 2019.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I had serious panic attack, like leading up to an event that we had thought like Like a real panic attack.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: I thought I had a heart attack.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: I thought it was dying like.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: And I was in my.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: I was in my house, going downstairs.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: I mean I have an office in our basement.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: I'm going down the stairs and I like literally cripple.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I'm like slumped over, think I'm gonna die.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: It seems like lasted forever.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: It probably was, I don't even know 20 seconds, but it felt like forever.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: And just when it ended I was like oh, and then I went right back to what I was doing.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: I didn't tell anybody.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Didn't tell anybody in January.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: I get shingles and like all down my leg and what the fuck is this?
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: red shit on my leg.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know why does it feel like someone's electrocuting me and you know so.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: It's like these months leading up to it.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: This is all November 2019, january 2020.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: March rolls around and it's like boom, everything stops and it's probably the greatest thing that's ever happened to me personally, health wise, because it forced me to slow down and then I was like, well, I can't go back to that shit again, like that was too much, it was I took too much on.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people they get to that place and maybe they don't have that Hard stop.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: They don't have that realization that they just can't keep pushing.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: So the burnout side is a real thing and I don't know if we can talk about it and people can be like, yeah, I don't want to be like Danny think I'm gonna die in my basement, you know, and I'm just gonna avoid that.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: It's like I wish you could, but you might not be able to.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: You might just have to go through something really challenging and realize that like, wow, this isn't really worth it.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: And what you're telling yourself that you're doing?
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: Are you really doing it for the reasons you say, or you doing it because you're scared of something else that might happen, like you're moving away from fear.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: You're running away from something is you don't want to fail or whatever it might be, versus you know you get pulled towards things that are really important and compelling.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm doing that a lot more now versus, for whatever reason, just feeling very, very motivated to try to like, not fail or prove people wrong or whatever might be just unhealthy.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: You know, deep down, you know I think that I'm right there with you and for you guys, like it's hard to turn that off.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know, have you struggled with actually finding that balance?
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I think for you a little bit more than me, jesse, but and I can remember I mean Danny, I feel like I was on your podcast I don't know exactly when, but it was certainly pre covid and it was like I've got five clinicians, it was like multi clinician practice, like we were In it.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: And I feel like without that pause, we hadn't started the podcast yet, we had not started business.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: We barely started business coaching.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: We out of covid came public pt rising, both clinical and business side.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: But we have also had to make sure that we're not doing the same thing again.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: We're not just being like, okay, cool, now we have public sanity still and we have public pt rising and we have public on.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: So we've had to make sure that everything is a lot more streamlined and goal focused and not just doing stuff just to do stuff.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: And I like what you said to about not just doing something because you see it done wrong and you want to do it better, but to take everything else out of, put your blinders on, be like what do I want to do, what do we want to do?
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Who do we want to impact?
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And not look at we're doing it because of any other outside influence other than we just want Our own mental focus to be dialed in some make sense.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah well, make sense to me, yeah it's not the, I'm not the one you gotta convince.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: It is a little bit of a struggle and having, you know, one year old and trying to be there with him and spend time with the, I mean that was a big challenge for us as we were doing it and you know, I think it's gonna be interesting this year.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: We've really tried to slow down.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I think the other thing that every entrepreneur comes to at some point is their own limitation, where you start off as the backstop and especially when it's just you like it's only you and then you get to a point where you're hiring people but it's still you who's on the hook or you're the one who's filling the gaps when there's a problem or a crisis.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where we were at public sanity for so long and really working to build a better team to, frankly, over hire and over invest in our administrative staff.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: We have an amazing administrative staff now.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: We didn't have to have that before because I would just go in after everybody was done and fix everything in the evening, right, it's like, well, shoot, it doesn't really matter, we can hire whoever, because I'm gonna be there and overseeing the whole thing, and it's been a real learning curve for us over the last three or four years to being able to truly get great people Empower them.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: We've been doing that in the rising coaching program now for the first time in the last three or four months and it's been incredible as well to see people who have gone through All of our programs now being able to turn that around and teach people beneath them.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: And again it's about leveraging our ability to do some of this stuff and having a bigger impact Then we could ever do when we were handling all the one on one calls ourselves or Burning the candle at both ends to try to make all that stuff happen.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: So Clays made us a little bit more deliberate about that, yeah, and then just one other thing personally to share with everybody honestly, because I feel like I didn't realize what that postpartum period was really gonna be like and I don't know how it was for your guys family, but I feel like we were awesome and rocked it for like four months and then, and we're like what's everyone talking about?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: This is simple, like.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: And then all the sudden it's like we knew that that are kind of like immediate, protected, immediate postpartum time was that.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: That immediate protection was up, and now we're like starting to get back into stuff and that's where I really started to like Freak out with like, oh my god, what are you gonna do?
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Like I don't understand clays changing like every day.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: We don't have the childcare set up that we need.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I am feeling like really pulled and Weird about letting anyone else take care of him, even though I really also miss the business part of stuff, and I want to get back to that.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: And you just I just felt like right at that like four to six month mark, like a whole set of different postpartum issues hit and we started fighting more, and before it was like where this United front and clays are the best thing that ever happened to us and we went through some fertility struggles.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: We were just like stoked that that happened, that clay was actually here, and then all the sudden, the reality of him being here was like, oh, this is very different.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: And so we had like a not that long ago, six months ago, had this sort of other sort of come to Jesus time with like what are we really gonna do now?
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: How are we gonna structure our time?
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: How are we gonna prioritize being with clay and like it's cool that we had the opportunities to do what we needed to do financially in order to make our life the way that it is now Because of all the hard work that we did for ten years prior was like really a neat thing, but it was definitely very hard, and so for anyone else, that is like A lot of people I'm sure you work with a lot of folks that are Want to start their own business after they have a baby right.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: That's like kind of like a natural sort of thing to sort of be okay, cool, I'm gonna quit my job and go on my maternity leave and then I'm gonna start my business.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: That was a huge surprise to me that I had a hard time in the middle of the first postpartum year, versus like right at the beginning.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: I think it's tough.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, kids are freaking hard, man.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: Like they scream, they cry, they keep you up, right, if you really think if you were trying to Break someone mentally.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: You just have like really annoying noises constantly and disrupt their sleep and then they sort of pin you against each other, where you're just like I need time to do this and I need time to do this and next thing you know you're like your best friend, who you're in this way that you guys are just Reckling at each other and it's because this person that you brought into the world, that you absolutely love, is literally driving you crazy.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: And no one gives you a book on how to do like this, like they give you instruction.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: It's crazy.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: They let you go home with this baby.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: This like human being with literally no experience none.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: And family dynamics change like that was another interesting thing for us, where it's like Now the sun running to deal with all this different family stuff that we never had to deal with before and we're just like this for the birds, like, can I get?
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I want to give back for a second.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Can someone?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Like take care of him for like a month while we figure out.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, it's true.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: Or like, yeah, god forbid, you spend three minutes longer at Christmas with one family than another, and then, yeah, dennis is like they lose their shit, right.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: So the thing is like it's like right, it is what it is and it's amazing as at that, but it's these.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: I think these challenges are.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: They're not unique to people in general, but in the entrepreneurship space, because you put so much on yourself, so much work capacity, there's so much risk as well.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: I don't think they can have a respect for the risk that you take, and we get used to it, we completely get used to it, but there is a level of risk there that is a stressor, an underlying stressor, and then you add these other things into the equation and it just makes it so hard.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: But I think, for the two of you I'd be interested to hear, though, like okay, you have all this challenge, but then you take a step back and you're like, wow, what are we trying to build towards?
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Like what are you trying to get your businesses to create for you on the life side, for you and for you to play?
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: And then, if you have any other kids as well, like what came from that?
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: That's like, I guess your clarity.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: They came out of all that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go Putting us on the spot.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: But I think for me, danny, it was more living and enjoying the moments that we have with Clay.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I was always such a future planner and like, oh, if I put this number in and I run a compound interest calculator, then we could retire at 52 with just enough to get us by.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: And then if we don't take social right that was very much me and I think it's been a clarion call Is that right now for us, the time, flexibility, the time freedom to be able to spend time with him in this time is more important than growing as fast as we could possibly grow or having a second pelvic standard location or taking as many coaching clients as we could possibly squeeze onto the schedule.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: That's just not our priority anymore and I think there's a freedom in that as well.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: When you take that step back and you get a little bit more of a holistic view of your life and where you want the business to go, that you can then start to really invest your time in the things that actually move the needle in the business.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: And one of the coolest things we were just doing kind of our year end review from last year and we do usually a thing that where we go through our time and we say what do we want to do more of, what do we need to cut and what do we need to keep doing, and we had hit I was super proud of this last year all of those for both Nicole and I of like doing more of the things that really matter and then getting this other stuff off our plate, whether that's automating it, delegating it, outsourcing it, whatever that was and I think that priority forced us to do that and I think it made us significantly better business owners.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Ultimately is having that time limitation.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: And then also interesting too, because I feel like once the goal isn't just to get more business owners into our program or more of someone to buy another clinical education course that I do.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: It's not about like how many people are doing it, it's that we're going to be able to create something like that process driven goal instead of our results driven goal.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Right, it's like the process now is us to be able to take a step back and look and be like what is the Pelvic Health Field really need right now?
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: And then we can carve out time to create that like in the cool way that that works.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Then then we're going to.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: We've already seen that more people are like blocking to us.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: I feel like, because we've shifted our mindset a little bit on, it's not about the number of people that come and spend money or do anything like that, it's like it's a neat perspective to be able to craft you know, this is where I sometimes I don't know how this stuff works the idea of you change your underlying sort of approach and really align that with what you're trying to do on the personal side and as well as in the profession, what you really are trying to do to help the profession improve and grow, which is something I actually I would say for the two of you I very much respect you doing, because in the coaching space there's a lot of people that are really great marketers but not necessarily.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: They're not necessarily interested in moving the profession forward.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: They're interested in just making money and they view it as an opportunity.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: But it's transparent after a while.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Right, it's like people can tell and if you don't have true passion for trying to help this profession, it gets.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: There's better opportunities other places like you could go somewhere else, you know, and then maybe they will and they'll figure that out.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: But I think, once you align yourself with what you're trying to do, it's funny how it seems like the right people just gravitate towards you and, like I said, I don't actually understand how that works or why, or whatever.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: But I can tell I've experienced something similar to myself where you're basically just doing what you're supposed to do, and when you do that and when you say the thing you're supposed to say because they're truly what you feel, then the right people resonate with that and they end up wanting to work with you as well.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: So I think it's worth the effort of being very intentional about thinking about these things, because it may not seem like it's really going to be great for the business when you do that and you sit down and you're like, wow, like why am I doing this, what don't we need to be doing, or what should we be doing, more of what is maybe the right thing to do instead of the easy thing to do, and once you really nail that, it's crazy just how much easier it is to achieve the business goals.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know, that might sound a bit woo and maybe I've lost some people here where they're like they lost the fuck of mine, but it's true.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: You know, and I don't, like I said, I don't understand it.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: All I know is it definitely works and it works with your practice, but it also works with.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: It works with life.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you're putting something out there that isn't truly who you are, the way you feel about things, like you're going to really put yourself in a place where you're repelling people that maybe you should have a relationship with, or you should, you know, be in a community with, or whatever.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: Because the first thing is you got to realize what do you want to do, who are you, and from there start to make decisions based off of that, instead of trying to be cool for somebody else or, you know, make a decision based on revenue exclusively.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: It just doesn't work in the long term.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: And I feel, like you know, when we set up, public sanity there was especially from a non clinician like Jesse there was a couple of things where at the very beginning, we had to be like what is the right thing to do for these patients with public health concerns?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: And the right thing to do is to make sure that we never compromise on one on one treatment sessions and like a really nice calm atmosphere with like a really solid door and, like you know, bougie stuff on the table, warmers and all kinds of essential oils going and all kinds of stuff right, and because and it was very good that we did that so early on, because there were times when business guy over here is like I mean, have you seen our essential oil budget?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: It's our second biggest line item.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: It's like linens, credit card fees and then lavender.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Like what the hell is this?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: on the budget here right.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: But it's like, but those are the things that like there's like no way we'll not practice this way.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: And same thing.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: We've done that now for business, like what do these people that are starting their own cash based PT practices need?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: And it's if we have coaches, it's great coaches that have been successful.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: It's proven systems.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: It's transparent numbers with.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: We pull before and afterwards all the time, like we report back what types of numbers people are getting in our programs.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I know you do the same and you're reporting on that, like some of the other.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that not every coach does that right, because if you actually looked at those numbers, they might not be that great.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: And that's not to say like I'm not trying to bash anybody one person, but it's like when you're driven by getting results for other people, then that then you're again we're aligning in what we know needs to be happening for the profession and for the successful life of the person that's going to work with us, and like that's really what drives all of our decision making that way.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: So it I don't think it's very woo woo.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: I tend to be a little bit more woo woo than a lot of people might think.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I really believe in that, like being truly authentic to yourself, you're going to attract the right people, and both on the business side and, honestly, patient side we all are patients at public sanity are fricking awesome.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a whole podcast on the two percenters.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Because it's also like when you are aligned that way and most people are attracted to you by that and you have people coming into your office that are just really awesome people as well, like there's 2%, that's very easy to spot.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: That's like how did you get here?
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Like you're being a pain in the ass, like you're not abiding by our policies and, honestly, like get the fuck out.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't want you to be here and it's, and it's not.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: We're not worried about losing that patient revenue by saying, like, actually we're not a good fit for you, you need to go to another clinic, and I just feel like there's all that is to say is that, like that alignment of who you're trying to help and who you are as a person is like really what ends up making you just like exponentially that much more successful.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: I think it sounds easy to just be authentically yourself, and it seems like it's the most difficult thing out there.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: And, danny, I would just want to say I, like I respect the hell out of everything that you put out and do, because you can feel that emanating from you, like when, when I first read the fucking insurance, you had to like change the name on that.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Is this true?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's still on Amazon.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: When we revised it, we you did change the name, mainly because most social media platforms have changed their policies on allowing profanity.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Even if you put an asterisk where the you would be, it's still there.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: It's, in fact, people more people buy that than the revised copy that we actually like.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: Put marketing dollars behind, which is funny and ironic and also irritating for our marketing company.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: But but you know, yes, like anyway.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does exist.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Still to define it.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: But just to give you your do there.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've read a lot of business books from folks and I feel like 98% of the kind of book that that is is oh, here's all of these success stories now by my program.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that work and right, and I really genuinely I read that and I get so frustrated with those other things and when I read what you put out it's like man, every word in there.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: You're literally just trying to help people with that and you never see that.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: It's always some sort of like slick thing.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: And we've even had people like came to us for business coaching who literally said we looked at their thing and like, look at their numbers, they're failing as a business.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: And they said it's okay, I'm just going to go out and coach other people now.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, easier money.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Literally someone said that to us and they apply.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: I mean they put up.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: All you need is like a website and a couple of suckers.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Really, that's so frustrating for us and it is just hard sometimes to remember that long term thing is man just just being authentic, putting your stuff out there, putting stuff out that you really think is going to help other people and that is going to eventually lead to that success.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we're seeing kind of that you have a longer term view of this than we do, having been coaching for a longer time.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: So the PT-Biz been a thing like at least 10 years.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: I started working with people like on a one-on-one basis in.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: It was the end of 2015.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: And that would take like three month contracts.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: You know, with people were and actually kind of before that, but not in a structured way.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: But I would take three months contracts and I'd be like, hey, here's the deal, I'm going to work with you for three months, I'm going to try to help you with whatever I can help you with.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's going to work.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: And even with people when I first started working with it, I was like, if I can't help you, then like I'll just give your money back.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: I actually don't know if this is going to work, but I need you to actually pay something, so you'll pay attention.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: So, and that was it, and I actually did that.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: Actually with one practice out of the Bay Area that I was like this didn't fucking work and and a lot of it had to do, it was above my pay grade, it was more infrastructure stuff I didn't understand, and so I was like, uh, sorry, no worries, you don't actually owe me anything.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: So I appreciate it and and so that's how we started and a lot of it was irritating to me in some ways, because people would like reach out and I would.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: I would answer all these questions and my wife would sort of like actually started to get mad because I'm sitting on the couch while she's trying to, like, you know, spend some time with me.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: And I'm like following up with people that are just asking me business questions as we're trying to run a business and raising kids.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: And so finally, like you know, one of my mentors he was like hey, just put a monetary dollar amount on it and the right people will say yes, the wrong people will say no.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: But more people started to say yes than I expected.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: So then, you know, it kind of went that direction.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: But I would say the thing that happened that was interesting for me was when we first like I spent a year with seven practice owners and I was like, all right, I'll spend a year working just with these seven, but we're going to get together at the end and we're going to meet up at our office, we'll do a day just kind of working through some business stuff and we'll see how we like it.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: But when we got those people together it was so fun, it was like one of the more fun times that I've ever had it, I was like this is crazy.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: This is literally great for me.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: I love this, it's so fun and you know they're like they're paying to get help with their business.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: But then when I got a chance to connect all of them you know many of these first seven people that we worked with like they're really good friends, like some of them are in the other people's like wedding parties and stuff and it's and I'm like, wow, this is cool, so like there's a connection, a community sort of piece to it that we really really liked and realized that like this is a missing link, I think for a lot of folks was to have that ability to connect with another clinical entrepreneur that is treating people similarly but also trying to grow a business like that.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: And that's really that was a turning point for us, because we're still I mean, we still were growing and running a practice and all the things that come along with that.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: And I think that's the difference for a lot of people, and for the two of you as well is like to have legitimate, like experience with running a business and then actually be a good coach which is not doesn't always go hand in hand and actually enjoy coaching people.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: That combination is pretty rare and it's the reason why you know you tend to see really good results and and you sell your conference out, like you know, every year and it's and it's because you actually have that combination, which I think is is very rare.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: And the other thing, too, is that I'm not bashing on all coaches because because, like, I feel like it is a bad rap for a good reason.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: You know there's a lot of people that are, they have a course on this and that or whatever, and but outcomes, truly getting outcomes for people it's hard you take it personally If they don't do what they're supposed to do.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: It's hard when, when you want something more than somebody wants it for themselves, like that sucks.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: But it's also like the outcome, like we were talking about, you know, earlier, like I think about in the last 12 months, like the people we work with work like 65,000 new patients and I think the net effect of what are the physical activities those people can do now versus before, and like the enjoyment they get with being around the people they like to be around do the things like to do, and so you know the net effect of that is really such a profound driver for some of the challenges, especially with any business, but this one in particular has unique challenges I'm sure you guys have realized, as, as you know, you're working with people all over the place and remote teams and stuff like that, but you come back to it.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: I mean it's pretty amazing.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: We get a chance to do that, regardless of the outcome.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: You know, like we've kind of all, I feel like we're kind of playing with house money at this point, so being able to like, do something fun and really help other people along the way, like what an amazing mix.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: You know, we could be selling fidget spinners and be fucking miserable and well, but most people for I've found I don't know if you've noticed this too but like most of my friends that I've met that are wealthy, they're either unhealthy or unhappy Very few of them have ever met that are wealthy, they're happy and they're healthy.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: They physically, mentally, relationships, all that and I'm like this is not.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: This should be the norm.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: Why the hell can't we have more of this?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: You know, and that's really for us at least.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: Our reason for what we do now is driving more towards that.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: We just happen to do it with most performance based clinicians.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so fun to see, Danny, this like convergent evolution in your story and ours and same.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: We had similar aha moments when we put people together and realize it's not about just like oh, here's this business tactic.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's about the community.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: It's about, I mean, all the stuff that you guys do is clinicians.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Right is the accountability is the community.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: And we had our first like business retreat for our people out here and had that same kind of aha moment where we rented out a boat and took them around the harbor.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's cool, it's like and public pts.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I think they traumatized the poor bartender on this boat.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: He still is in therapy, right, but you get a group of like 50 public pts together and they're drinking and the poor guy like learned more about anatomy and that hour long cruise than he ever wanted to know.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: I take.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't even know he had a pelvic floor Right.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: And now we?
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: realize he has a problem and that we can help.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: And yeah, his relationship is failing and all the things.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: I think that's great, but it's also what's cool about it is they're uniquely different cultures, and that's what I find.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: You know what people need to find and if you're listening to this, like you know you got to realize, like, where are your people?
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: If you're looking for, like help with your business and you want like a community element and coaching wrapped around it, like you got to figure out, like, where are your people?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: Because, like, if you come to an event that I'm doing, like we're doing a hard fucking workout at six o'clock in the morning on like Thursday morning, right Like this is the kind of people that we gravitate towards.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: The vast majority of people are showing up and they look like they're ready to burpees at any point in time.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: You know and when you do it to us.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: We're doing sound bath on the beach and people are crying.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, right?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: Because they had an epiphany, right.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: And even though we might have similar business principles that apply across the board, it's not packaged the same way and you need to find the people that are the right fit for you, because that community of people I always talk about, like skill set, is important.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: You're going to learn.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: You know people, processes, sales, marketing, finance, all that stuff.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: You need to know that stuff.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: Like it or not, you got to do it if you want to run a business.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: But, like the network side of the other side, right, it's like these are people that if you, you could stop in any city where anybody in our community is at and hit them up to grab dinner and it'd be a great conversation because you'd have such, you know so much in common and you're driving towards similar goals.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: That's what I think for a lot of people they're missing that Like we're so isolated, we're so compartmentalized and, especially as clinicians that are trying to do like, do something in business it's not a lot of us and to connect with other people like that they can celebrate wins with you that understand the challenges that your brother or your friend who works somewhere else maybe doesn't and think you're crazy because you started a business Like all of a sudden.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: Now you have this not to say it's like a support group or whatever, but it's like people that are in your corner that want to see you be successful and they want to help you out.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: And it's not just us, it's like everybody, and that's the net effect of that is just very powerful and it's hard to lose if you really go down that route and you find your right group of people and sometimes you're in the wrong place and that's okay too.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: You got to maybe bounce around and find the one that is the best fit for you.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I, we totally agree with that.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I feel like that's an excellent way to kind of end this, danny.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: That pretty much sums it up.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like we could talk for another like four or five hours.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe we just will offline, but Dude, yeah, you know what's funny.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, I feel like this is a very enjoyable conversation for me, and I lose track of time with stuff like this, Like it's a I have no idea how long we've been talking, but for me that it's just like such a fun activity, it's such an energizing thing to do.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: I'll leave here and I'll have more energy than whenever we started and I just really appreciate a you know candid conversation about this stuff, to hear your perspective on things.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: It is very refreshing to hear how, how much overlap and similarities there were finding, and for me at least, it's like okay, cool, we're definitely doing the right thing, we're on the right path to have that, you know, to reinforce by what you're doing.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: So I appreciate it.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: I hope everybody likes this conversation.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: You know I've been trying to do more of these with people that I respect Some of it is is for you, but a lot of it is for me and just being able to like, connect and share ideas, and so hopefully you know you find value in this as much as as I have, and hopefully you guys have as well.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: And a real quick shout out to the person who connected us.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I knew who you were and stuff before, but Shantay Cofield, you know you were on her podcast recently.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: She's a good friend of mine, so shout out to her for one of the most authentic people I've ever met.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: She's great Talk about a great example of somebody that's just into the shit they're into, right.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: You know like she's and I appreciate that about her probably more than anything else you know, like I, just I just really, and it's not.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: People like her are just like so rare and I wish there were more of them.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: You know, like that's really it right.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: It's just like be yourself.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: You'll attract the people that are right for you.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: Be into what you're into, be into volleyball.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: If you're into volleyball, move from you know, do Jersey, where it's cold, to somewhere warm.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: That's what you want to do.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: But, like, dude, sit down and think about what you want your life to be like right, build it around that.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a great example of like what Shantay has done.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: And then, yeah, I'm very thankful that she connected us and and we got to do that first podcast and I remember I was like man, you got to start a podcast, you're going to awesome at this.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: Like there's certain people I talked to that are just you're like natural great communicator and this, this platform, and to see like how much reach you've had is amazing because you know it's so helpful and the ideas you share and the people you talk to.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's great.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah, shantay, thank you so much.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, cool Well, thanks, danny, for your time today and had just awesome conversation and we will be in touch a lot of time.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, thanks again, danny, that is, and just again, for being what you are to the field, the way that you're pushing things forward like we see that that's inspirational to us and I know you've the trickle down effect of the stuff that you're doing and we hope some of the stuff that we're doing, I think, really is changing things and we've seen it you've seen it in just the last five, 10 years how big this movement is growing, that the number of people that are being touched, the number of employees who have amazing jobs or they actually get to work one on one with the patient, like oh yeah, that's it.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: It is really, really cool to see and you've been an inspiration to us along the whole journey.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: So we just want to say thank you and so great to have you on for the conversation today.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for the conversation.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: I look forward to this one coming out.