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The Fertility Journey of a Trauma Surgeon: First Hand Wisdom and Perspectives · Love and Science Fertility

• 0:33
  Speaker 1: All right, we have a super fun episode today.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: We have a conversation with Dr Chrissy Guidry, who is a trauma surgeon and just an amazing human who does a ton with advocacy for, you know, for everyone really, who is trying to build a family and who may also happen to be in medicine, and so this is just a wonderful conversation we're going to have, candidly, to talk about clean living and how we can clean up our minds, clean up our homes, clean up our bodies, um, and really clean up our relationships too, so that we can really engage in this process, um, in the best way possible.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And just for anyone listening out there, you know we're going to be posting this on both of our podcasts and you know for my whole body optimism listeners, this is just so exciting that I get to speak and have this conversation with Dr Erica Bove.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: She is an REI and a fertility coach, which, if you don't know what REI is, you probably are not in the fertility world.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: But you need to know.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Reproductive endocrinologists have a huge impact on the world of when patients like me have issues getting pregnant and we need some assistance, whether it be, you know, just a logistics it's who you go to.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: It's like if you had a heart condition, you went to a cardiologist.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: This is who you go to whenever you have fertility problems and things come up like that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited for the conversation today.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and so tell me so.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I, you know, as you said, I'm a fertility coach and a fertility physician.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I was a physician first and then, as I was getting into my work specifically with women physicians, but really with all women professionals, I just found that, you know, making that transition from being a physician to being a patient is a super complicated, like in one hour you're on the other side of the equation.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Then it's almost like you kind of cross over this fence and you're like wait, you know, I'm the one providing the care and now, now I'm the one receiving the care.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It's like this very dynamic situation and you know, with every other thing in life, right, and on the path of medicine, it's like okay, you work hard and then you get a result.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: The fertility journey could not be more opposite.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Right, you can do every single thing, you can go to every appointment, you can be on all the supplements and, you know, have the best exercise regimen and all those things and at the end of the day, like you talk about in a lot of your podcasts and writings, it's a possibility and it's not guaranteed.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And so I'd love to sort of talk about that sort of paradox of what it's like to be in a situation of from your own you're so generous with your own experience what is it like to be in a situation where the equation is not work harder and then you get what you want, but you kind of have to think outside the box and figure out some other ways of going about this?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's so important that you bring that up because there's so many healthcare professionals that are just striving for excellence and I think that's ingrained in this from you know, maybe even before medical school.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: You know, we go to medical school it's like you study this, you go to this, you do this practical and you get this result and you get congratulated.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: You, you match into a program.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: You, you know, get these good reviews.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: You, you have all these things and and then you get to this point in your life where you're like okay, well, the natural progression is, okay, I'm going to get my career, then I'm going to meet someone, then I'm going to have a baby.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: You know, da, da, da.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And when that doesn't happen, the way that you had anticipated to you kind of is there's a lot of self harm in that.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: You know, emotionally, because you're like, wait, like I have proved to myself and the world that if I worked hard enough, I, you know.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And and of course, the um, the most unhelpful advice ever is just go on a vacation, just don't stress.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: You know all these different things.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: And even I mean honestly, even REI is telling me okay, maybe you should back off and you shouldn't be a trauma surgeon anymore and and I think what you know along the way I had to realize and and this was through my own fertility coach and a lot of spiritual coaching and things like that is is really the stressors in life.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Should, maybe they should be avoided.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: There's some of them that you can avoid by making conscious decisions, but, honestly, it's not to avoid them completely, because we would be ignorant to do that.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: It is to develop mechanisms of how we can change our nervous system, our emotional guidance system, for us to respond in a way that is so much more mindful, so much more emotionally mature, that we can use those experiences, those stressors, to actually grow and change the way we think, actually grow and change the way we think and the way people act around us.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: It's like it's, it's just a, it's a mind blowing experience and and and really when, when, when I realized that I started realizing over and over how this fertility journey is happening for me.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, that's so powerful.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: That is so powerful, yeah, and like and and.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Whenever I coach people that are in the fertility side of things and and most of my clients are just wanting to clean up their lives they want better longevity, they want more vitality in life, they want to feel better, and you know, and, and, and it really comes down to what has happened in your life that has allowed you to let this new door open up.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I'm a divorced person and, although I would never wish that on any single human in this planet, I say it was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because I was so stuck and stagnant in my own growth and by my life truly shattering into a thousand pieces, I had to look and say, okay, how is this going to go back together?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: You know what needs to be created new, and I'm just so grateful for that experience now.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And hey, it still causes a tremendous amount of pain in my life.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, it still causes a tremendous amount of pain in my life.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: But what you start to realize is that the pain and the beauty, they kind of coexist and it's very and like the people that I've met, you know, through my own process, my own journey, it's like I never would have met those people, I never would have had that growth.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: And so again, would I, you know, choose to go through door one, you know again, you know that was you know.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: But you're right, this, these things happen for us, and I always tell my clients and my patients, like spoiler alert, this is not going to be the last hard thing that happens.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: This is an exercise in how do we handle hard things?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: What resources do we need to pull in?
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: What judgments do we need to set aside so that we can?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Then, you know, when the next hard thing happens, we're like oh guess what?
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Like I've been through hard territories, I know how to handle these things and we're a more evolved version of ourselves.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally, I will.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you cause I know we should talk about different ways of how to get pregnant, because you know, I know a lot of people have reached out to me about donor eggs, surrogacy, you know even IUI and IVF even you know, some people are very against IVF and because I think they just don't have enough education and knowledge about it or they haven't talked to anybody, they haven't heard expertise on it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So can you tell the listeners a little bit about if I were your patient coming in, that is, you know, later in their career, and they wanted to get sort of quote unquote screen for infertility, what kind of steps would you take them through as far as like labs or whatever?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: You know, my thinking on this is that time is not on our side when it comes to fertility, so we always, always want to do as many things in parallel as possible.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: So you might take the approach oh, we'll do this, and if that's normal, then we'll do this.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: That is not how I function.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I say infertility is not usually one giant thing.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: It's usually a few things that line up to keep people subfertile, and so let's check what we can, of all the things we can.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: There's still things that are being developed and things that are going to come out in the next 10, 20 years, of course, but I think of things in like buckets, to kind of keep things simple.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So I think of the ovary bucket, right, so that's going to be the egg reserve testing that looks at how is a person doing for their age in terms of egg number.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Now, the hard part is none of these are qualitative tests, so they're not going to say anything about egg quality, and I think that's really the holy grail.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: But you know, I can say, okay for a 40 year old woman.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: You know you're on the good side of the numbers or the not so good side of the numbers, and that can influence the counseling.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: So what are those tests?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Antimullerian hormone is a blood test.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: That is an egg number test.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I gave my I'm dating myself, but I gave my grand rounds as a second year resident because nobody even knew what it was back then.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: But now it's became, like, I know, like the mainstay of care for egg number and that really also tells us response to medications if people end up getting a treatment cycle or more than that.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And then there's also the follicle stimulating hormone in the estrogen.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Those tests need to be drawn at the same time.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: They need to be drawn at a certain point in the cycle to be interpreted.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Many people don't know that they're generally like a seesaw when one goes up, the other goes down, and so, generally speaking, I think of our bodies like a thermostat.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: When the ovaries are struggling, the brain then starts like sort of revving up the system and say, hey, you know, turn up the temperature.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: So the brain temporarily works harder for the ovaries to do their job.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And so I can get a window into the communication between the brain and the ovaries when I can check those two tests.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And then there's the ultrasound.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: So there was basically like an internal ultrasound that looks at the ovaries.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Ovaries it's nice if they look like chocolate chip cookies, right With lots of follicles, but if they don't look that way, that can suggest a low egg number.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: And also it's kind of like the AMH look at response to medication.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So that's like you say in your podcast.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: That is extremely simple technology.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: That is a blood test and an ultrasound.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: We're not talking like invasive cardiac screening here.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: This is like really simple stuff.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: So that's the first thing.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: You know, if there is somebody who has a male partner with sperm, then we get what's called a semen analysis.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Thankfully, in COVID we had this idea where maybe men should produce sperm at home.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So, if you know, that's a lot less awkward than coming into the fertility clinic.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: So there was ways that you can even take a cup, bring it to your home, produce the sperm sample at home, bring it back into the clinic, um, and that's just.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a super simple thing to do.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I will say many men are often reluctant to do it, but it's truly just pretty straightforward in terms of what that is and that looks at sperm number, motility and shape as well Um, number, motility and shape as well.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And then you know, there's that sort of anatomical testing in terms of the uterus and the fallopian tubes.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Not everybody needs the full shebang to make sure all the tubes are open and connected and everything, but really just an anatomical assessment to say, okay, does the uterus overall look normal?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Are there any anything poking into the uterus that would act like an IUD?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Are there any blockages anywhere?
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And, you know, is there anything?
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Any ovarian masses like?
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Anything that looks like the structure itself would make it harder to get pregnant or stay pregnant.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And then there's that sort of big bucket of like preconception labs and so just like and you're talking about clean eating and all those things.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: We want to make sure that the human is optimized to be a pregnant person.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So complete blood count, thyroid, rubella, chicken pox, no-transcript people can get pregnant.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: That data then starts the springboard for where things may not be connecting if somebody is having infertility, and then sort of a tailored approach to what that person might need and what options exist.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Now I'm curious um because you know I do a couple of no-transcript.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: We are at the point with a lot of this fertility knowledge and therapy where sometimes the things that we can test, we don't quite know what to do with those results as of yet.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And so the same thing with the vaginal microbiome, the uterine microbiome is having an IUD influence that in a negative way, like we have all these questions and we can do a biopsy and say, like this is, this is the smattering of what we see, but in terms of how we handle that, it's really complex because there aren't a ton of really good data, you know, well-designed studies that show us exactly what we should do in those situations.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: And so I will say it often is after people have, you know, a few unsuccessful cycles, where then people start to look and say, ok, well, let's grasp at straws, because we don't really know what this means, but maybe it could sort of have it have an impact.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And so I really hope that that's in that category of things that we'll see over the next several years in terms of like a little bit more guidance in terms of what to do.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Um, I very much tell my patients and my clients that intuitive eating is so powerful because it is not a one size fits all thing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You know I can eat the same thing as you and we would process that totally differently.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And so really keeping a diary figuring out what foods make people feel strong, what foods drain people's energy um, you know, with PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome you know there are certain guidelines around carbohydrates and protein and and protein and sort of different combinations of those things.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious your perspective, what have you found in terms of the gut microbiome, in terms of helping your people or even yourself?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: You?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: You know, for myself and my people.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: You know I, I personally take a spore biotic twice a day and I know a lot.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I've spoken to a lot of gastroenterologists about this and they have said that maybe that's overkill.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: But I know that whenever I'm not on this spore biotic, maybe it's a placebo thing in my mind, but I do feel like my gut doesn't feel as good.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I feel less bloating whenever I'm on it.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: But then also I tailor my diet around, you know, feeding my gut microbiome, like my whole you know eating capacity during a day and what I coach people do is, you know, go toward foods that are non-bloating, non-gut disruptive things.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You know I barely.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: You know I practice the 80, 20 lifestyle.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So you know I do have my 20% where you know I go off the deep end sometimes with stuff.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: But you know, typically my day doesn't include gluten, um, especially in the United States, because you know of of all the the tainted gluten out there.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I totally believe that's true and I stick more with sweeteners like honey, maple syrup, coconut, sugar, things of that nature that are more simple and really foods that have simple ingredients.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: To me, the more simple they are, the more cleaner it is for your whole body and your, your mental capacity, you're operating in a better stance and your gut's happy.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: The gut brain access is, I think, is a big thing, and especially talking to surgeons, I just recently presented and had a lot of people ask me a lot of questions about it at a conference.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, just talking about what you're eating when you're on call, like that, is so important, because if we're feeding our body trash, how are we expected to treat our patients less than trash?
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You know, like what, like it's?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's not even sometimes cause you know a lot of physicians.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: They're like oh, we're doing it for the patient, we're doing it for the patient, patient.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Well, take care of yourself, for the patient and feed your body cleaner things, feed the gut microbiome, which is ultimately what you're doing.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Um, so you know, I do a lot of polyphenols in my diet, um, a lot of omega threes, um, things like that that are all lots of antioxidants.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: There's actually a lot of data for antioxidants too.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know a lot of this has like biological plausibility, but there's actually studies on antioxidants in terms of mitochondria and egg energy, and you know, in terms of animal and human data, that the and so I do really do talk to my patients a lot about that as well.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, recently I've gotten I don't know if you've gotten into Dr Casey means, but I have read.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I read her book several months ago when it came out and it really is.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Just so many times during her book I was like amen, sister, I was like this is exactly what I'm talking about, you know.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: But you know, I think she just makes it very clear about the mitochondria and the energy source and things like that.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So I definitely think that you know the changes that we made in our lives for clean living, to better our, my ovarian quality that was my number one goal in the beginning of it really led me into this.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: This conundrum of okay, well, it didn't really make my quality of my eggs better because I ultimately didn't use my own egg for our, the child that I'm carrying now, but I do feel like my longevity, my health span, all of that has been significantly increased.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And you know like you look at some of the labs that you get tested.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You know I'm 42 years old and all my testing is, I would say, under the Casey Means, normal, because that is not the normal that is on your lab test when you get at an annual wellness exam, correct?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I mean, I think that the clean living really has impacted our lives in that regard and you know there's and clean living doesn't just apply to what we put on our skins and what we put in our bodies, but it's also about mindset, and we briefly talked about this before we press record and I'd love to hear your thoughts about, from a coaching and REI perspective.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: How much does mindset and more of like a spiritual work happen in your clients, your patients?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: journey?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: That's such a beautiful question.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I love your perspective.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: You know what I tell my patients, and I'm also very spiritually led and driven, and I tell my patients that there's this sweet spot.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: You have to believe enough that it is possible.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Right, and that happens to us because we get shut down with all the bad news and all the negative tests are like no, it's not possible.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: It's like the door has to be cracked because you've got to believe it's possible and then we have to let go of the outcome.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: That is the hardest thing to do.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And if you look at like 12 steps or any major spiritual discipline, it's like in that letting go and that turning it over to a higher power that is so powerful.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: And so I've had patients, you know, walk in the room to do an embryo transfer.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Dr Bove, I'm telling you this isn't going to work, and you know.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: And then with love, I say like, like you know, let's do some breathing, like let me give you a hug, like what can we do?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: That you believe it's possible.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Because if you're telling me with 100% certainty it's not going to work, I promise you it.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: You, your uterus is going to shut down your energetic fields.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: We don't talk about the energetic body at all that is so involved in receptivity and openness to this process.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, we don't know exactly the effects of stress, we don't know exactly.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: But that closed offness it doesn't help for sure.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Right, nothing is a hundred percent.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I just say this process is a whole series of vectors and we want every single vector possible in alignment to allow this to happen.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And the mindset is actually a really big piece of that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And, hey, it probably does lower cortisol levels, it probably does some of those scientific things that you know, we know about, and, plus, it just feels better.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It just feels better to go about your day and to to kind of have this sort of piece that like go about your day, and to to kind of have this sort of peace that, like you know, I can trust myself, like there's going to be a pathway to parenthood for me, like all will be well Cause.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's like on the other side, but what if this doesn't happen?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: What if that doesn't happen?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: What if I don't become a parent?
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I say, listen, every single person who wants to become a parent is going to become a parent.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It may not be your strong plan, a right.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: You will become an awesome parent.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: You just got to stick with the process.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Trust your doctor, you know.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Trust your coach.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Lean in, you know.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Pray, let go, you know.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Whatever your process is.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: But I really think it's, it's all of it, it's not just one thing, and that's why I actually named my practice love and science, because I think it actually takes both.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: So I totally agree.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So you, I'm sure that you did a lot of like your mindset evolved right, I'm sure, throughout your fertility journey.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit about what you know now and what you've learned that maybe you wish you could tell yourself that sort of younger version of yourself when you were first starting this process?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I have a lot to say on that and you know it's such a good question, it's such a good topic that so many people have, you know, asked me about that, are at that crossroads, saying do I go donor egg or do I go through a whole another cycle of IVF?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: No-transcript, and that just rushed me.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I think that that is oftentimes spoken way too soon in a conversation and maybe that's just like what I heard and maybe she said other things at the same time.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: But to people that are out there listening, when you're in that similar situation, that is the only thing you're going to hear and it's going to be devastating to hear it because it is again that whole.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I can work to accomplish X, y and Z.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Why can I work and accomplish this?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: To have my own egg, use it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And then you kind, I kind of went through this phase where it was it was denial.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: This phase where it was, it was denial.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: It was denial because it was.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: No, you know, like I've I've proven this I've fought adversities before.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Like I can, I can do this.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: And so it was like you know.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: And and of course you hear all these stories.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Oh well, such and such just stopped trying and they got pregnant.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: That can happen to you.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Why don't you just stop trying?
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: And then it would happen, you know.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, I kind of fooled myself to believe, oh well, okay, I'm going to, we're going to stop trying, then it's going to happen.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And so I kind of went through different phases of emotions and then I ultimately realized that I had to grieve not having my own genetic child.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And when I went through the process of that grief, it was big and a lot of people even now they are going through it and they can't see past not having genetics passed on to their child, not having genetics passed on to their child.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: And really, what I had to come to the conclusion was my that I knew I was going to be a mother.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I had no doubt that.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I had the desire in my heart and, as Rosanna Austin, my fertility coach, says, the desire in your heart to be a mom is there for a reason.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: You're going to be a mom, yes.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And so really, I had to go through this process of why am I trying to be God in this situation?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Why am I trying to direct how my baby is going to come into this world, to come into this world and I truly believe we see time as like a here's now.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Here was the future and here was the past.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: But God, universe, source, sees things as a collective and our baby's soul was in that collective and our baby.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: What if our baby was like I don't want to come into the world that way that you are trying to force me to come into that world and I had to get on the same page with what, the meaning, what the, the just the purpose of this fertility journey.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: What was it doing in my life?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: What doors was it closing?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: What doors was it opening?
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: The people I was meeting, the incredible opportunity that I get to share with other people fertility and clean living, now just so different that I would have never gotten to do if we would have had this baby the way I intended to have this baby and then just really accepting receiving science and love from this child, that this is how he wanted to come to us.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And you know, and I remember talking to my sister in law, she's a social worker, so she like processes things just so straightforward and it's just been, you know, a big rock in talking me through a lot of these things.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Is she's like is.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: She's like you're going to know when you're going to have to go to donor A.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Don't force it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Everybody's different and you're going to know.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is when my time is and I trust the process of, and I'm and I'm you're going to be grateful for the process when you get to that point.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Then, that area in your life, you're going to receive your baby and it really was powerful because I really had to.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people ask me on social media like how many times did you go through IVF before you decided to get a donor egg?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And I tell people like it is different for everyone and you can't put a number on the times that you want to go through IVF before you go to donor egg.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: It has got to be a personal reception of the process that you just receive.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: That science is amazing how like I'm so grateful that I have this opportunity, that I can actually carry a child that is not my DNA and I get to raise this child.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: That is going to be our baby.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: That's right, and also epigenetics too.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's fascinating.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Epigenetics.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you genetics?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: yeah, and you know that, yeah, a lot of people get, um, you know, attached to epigenetics.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes too is just like you know, like yes, the baby will change.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I have a friend who, um, she has a donor egg baby and it is so crazy because she has this like gap in between her teeth.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and her baby has, like the little girl has, a gap in between her teeth.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like that is just so cool, like I don't even understand it, but it's just, it's so precious you know it is and you're right.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think, stepping back to realize this is about a soul, this is about housing a soul, this is about parenting a soul and what's that pathway going to be?
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And you know it's, it's, it's a process, and I think that all of infertility is grief, right?
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I think that if we, if we think about it, thinking about the different stages, and grief is nonlinear and all those things, like we are not taught as humans and you probably see this in your work as a trauma surgeon we are not taught how to process grief.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: We are taught to numb our feelings, we're taught to distract ourselves.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: We're not taught about, you know, bargaining or acceptance, or you know it's not even okay to feel sad.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: You know, like, make yourself feel better, but sometimes you need to sit in the sadness and let those emotions and grief is hard.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: The only way through grief is through grief.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: There's no like I'm going to take this like side back, road exit, and then I'm going to end up on the other side, like it does this profound work right on us, but it's, it's necessary work for us to be able to move on forward.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: And so I guess, how would you sort of what would you say to somebody who is, like, afraid of those strong feelings?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Because it, you know, I always say no feeling it's going to kill you but, like it's going to be, it might be pretty, pretty tough in the meantime.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: It's a great question because you know, I get that, um, I get those questions.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: A lot is like how did I sort of cross over?
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: And how did I become okay with using donor egg?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And I would say, you know, I always ask the person asking me like, what is your intent in having this baby?
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Is it truly you just want to replicate your genetics in this human population?
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Is that, is that it?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And most people, when they think about it like that, they're like, no, like I want to be a mom, like I want to be able to raise this little one, to have the values and the, the, the goal, you know.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Like I want to set them up, I want to love on them, I want to be able to put a good human out into the world.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Well, all those different qualities don't necessarily need you to pass your genetics on to that child.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And if you're like and and I had to, really, you know, tell myself, like I need to let go of the, how I need to let go of the, how you know like, how do we get there?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Like you're going to be a mom, you're going to, you know, like, and it's interesting is like, through the process I was almost more okay with adopting than doing donor egg and then, after I thought about it after a while, I was like, no, like how lucky am I that I can actually have the opportunity to carry a child and be able to, you know, participate in this.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So I would say, what's your goal in having a child?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I would say, what's your goal in having a child?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: And if it is just to have your own genetics in this world to pass on, then maybe you need some self-reflection and some, um, some ego coaching, because that is your ego speaking.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Um, I would say, you know, like, what is what in you?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: There's got to be something in your past like shame, guilt of letting go of the how.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Like you know, like, join facebook groups, join other communities that are talking about other moms that are having donor egg babies, donor embryo babies, growing their family in different ways than just sort of the culturistic, natural way of doing things.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: You know, there are so many people that are having donor egg and donor embryo babies that we're just not even talking about it as much, and I feel like people that are in this situation who don't want to move forward.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: They're feeling alone, yeah, and if they felt like they had more people to support them, more people and you know I've had them say well, what is this kid going to resent me?
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Is this kid going to you know this, that and the other?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you look at the history of adopted children, you know I know several adopted friends and I don't.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's a lot of resentment to their parents.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: No, no, I'm actually in the process of compiling a group of books for children, you know, at different ages.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I, if you find a list that's already been started, let me know.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: You know I don't.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I tend not to reinvent the wheel, but I've been getting this question so many times from moms who are like I just want to, you know, be able to help with the narrative Right.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: And I think that's really important too, because I think, if we think these things through, it's like you know, our narrative is our narrative right.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: You sort of it's what's in your heart, we loved you so of it's what's in your heart.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: We loved you so much, right, that that we, we wanted to have you so much and and this was our pathway to having you like it's it's.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's super powerful to think about the fact that, um, you know, it's a story it's a story of love.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: It's a love story, right, it totally is.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: It totally is.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: You know, and and once you make the decision and I will say just for people who are out there that are trying to decide and you make the decision to use donor egg, it's not easy.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: After you make the decision, there's still a lot of steps that you have to go through in order to get to the fertilized eggs, to the transfers to you.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: You know the next steps to carrying the pregnancy and all those things Choosing a donor.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Choosing a donor we went through six different donors before we got to our seventh one, and this was, you know, really, you know digging deep, you know, and maybe I'm just like you know, like I wanted their whole charts.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I wanted their, their family practice visits, and that's important, you know it's been recently talked about, is you know like how that should be available for intended parents.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: But you know, I will say, also is and I tell this to my coaching clients just about other things in life but if you think about having your baby, I know this is like so simple to think about, but we all use Amazon, yeah, and if I place an order on Amazon, I say buy now, it's mine, right, so that thing is coming to me, that thing is coming to me Now.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you can't select, if FedEx is going to bring it to you, ups, Amazon carrier, usps there's all kinds of different ways that that package will get to you and surely the timing of that is going to be very different based on where it's coming from and all these different things.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: But when you decide that you are going to be a mother, you've pressed the buy now button.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: That's right, and you have got to stick that in your mind, whether it be affirmations, meditation, prayer, centering, that that baby is on its way to you that's right, that is so powerful, that's right.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And we talk about manifestation and allowing.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: This is like.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: It's like that visioning.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: You know it is happening, it is happening and I am, you know, co-creating right with this greater universe, this greater power, right, wow, that's.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I get asked by my clients and I don't have a great answer, and my patients too.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And so this, this concept of disloyalty, and and so I've heard it on both sides like, oh, my husband just can't imagine his sperm combining with another woman's egg.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: He feels like that's infidelity, like I've heard that more times than I can count.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I've also heard on the other side you know it's disloyal to myself to give up on my own DNA.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And you know, I listen, I validate.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: This has not been my exact journey, so it's a little harder.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: What would you say to those people where that is their primary barrier is this sort of notion that they're doing something wrong by making that choice?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you a couple of things.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: So my husband and I had to discuss this at length, you know, when we were trying to go through the journey, because you know I, you know you could use donor embryo and for people that don't know the difference between donor egg and donor embryo out there, donor egg is, you know, if we had a donor that just donated her egg, I mean we paid for it and then my husband's sperm fertilized it, well, we could have gone.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: The other route is to look for donor embryos that were already fertilized with someone else's eggs, someone else's sperm.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: So the question about this loyalty, you know I think it comes down to it's a couple specific things.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: So it has to come down to how does your spouse feel about having their sperm long-term joined with an egg?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: That is not you and you raising that child.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's perfectly okay if they're like I'm not good with that, and then you know maybe their next option is donor embryo.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: And then you know maybe their next option is donor embryo.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we came to the conclusion.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: You know is and I I had to come to this too is like if we have a little girl, and then what if there is something that we find out later in life that was genetic in my infertility pathway that I then passed on to her?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I I kind of like that helped me to let go of that genetic passing on too, because why do I want to continue this generational thing?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Um, but you know, I think that's a couple decision and I don't feel like it's dishonest or disloyal, I just feel like it's something that you know.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: It's another choice Now for me giving up on my own genetics.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Don't know, I I think that was part of the grieving process and, um, the this loyalty to myself.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I had to see that that was maybe egotistic.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: It's a thought.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Coaching would say that's a thought, yeah, yeah and it's just a thought and it wasn't something that was going to change the way, you know, we directed our goals, our actions and our our you know outcomes.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You know it's, it's, it's really, it was just.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of decisions these days we rely so much on our ego and we don't rely on the divine presence that's trying to work through us and through us to make, you know, connections and love one another and and things like that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: We let our ego get in the way and then our ego makes our decisions, and so it it, I mean it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: It it comes with time.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: You know, time and practice, and you can't expect fertility warriors just to, um, you know, listen to those podcasts and decide, oh yeah, I'm going to not think about the loyalty to you know, just gratitude, abundance, all those things that are in this present moment, that are here for you now that you're going to miss out on if you don't just wake up and smell the roses right here.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: That and that, combined with in grief, it's the pathway through.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, cause if you can grieve it, then you can go through and release those attachments and say, okay, I'm here for it.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Whatever form that takes that acceptance, I accept this.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: This will, this will and my will are now united Right.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Right and I always say you know grief and like terrible grief is normal, yeah, but it's not always necessary.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And what do you have to do?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: You have to make steps, you have to take actions and you have autonomy to make those decisions, to connect with others, to get a coach to do this, to make that grief a little less painful for you.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like we could talk for hours about this.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that you know I mean your journey and you know you're now with child and you know it's.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: It's just it's, it's beautiful, it's just like I always say life is strange and beautiful, all at the same time.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: And it's like, could you?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: ever have, like you know, predicted this.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: You know, but it's like this is your life and you know, here you are and continuing to use your voice, continuing to advocate, continuing to connect with other women, other people.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: It's just, I don't know.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we just realize that, like our they call it the wounded healer, right.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Like, sometimes, our deepest pains in life are connected with how we're meant to heal the world, and I think you're a living example of that.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So if people have heard this and they haven't really heard of us yet, you know your listeners and my listeners.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you, Dr Guidry?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I have Instagram.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: It's it's whole body optimism and you could just go to Instagram at whole body optimism.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Look me up, Give me a follow, come and comment or message me.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to connect in any way possible.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: You can go to my website to easy whole body optimismcom, Um, and find me there too.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: So tell my listeners how did they get in touch with you?
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Very parallel, so the most comprehensive place is my website love and science fertilitycom.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: I'm also on Instagram and Facebook under Love and Science Fertility.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I like same.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I love a DM, I love a comment.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I also have, you know, this podcast, and so I think we should all follow each other's podcast.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: The world's a better place with inspiring podcasts.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: As we drive, as we do our laundry, as we, you know, there's always room for inspiration.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: So I loved connecting with you today and I know this is really the beginning of a very fruitful collaboration and friendship.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Totally, totally, I love it.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: It was awesome.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you Until the next time, okay.