Latest / The Book Deal / The Writing Deal: Tina checks in on Madeleine and Natasha in the editing trenches

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The Writing Deal: Tina checks in on Madeleine and Natasha in the editing trenches · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: The Book Deal Podcast Where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals, to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina Strachan: So no matter what stage of writing you're at, we've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Tina Strachan: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Natasha Rai: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Madeleine Cleary: One deal at a time The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on, and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Tash, Mads, it's...
• 0:58
  Tina Strachan: I'm so glad that we managed to find a little bit of time this week to have a chat, because we didn't think it was gonna happen, did we?
• 1:05
  Tina Strachan: I- Nope you girls are deep, deep in the editing trenches, aren't you?
• 1:11
  Natasha Rai: Yep.
• 1:12
  Tina Strachan: I'm so glad you've been able to come up for a little bit of air, as everyone can hear from the excitement in their voices.
• 1:19
  Tina Strachan: Deep in editing trenches, so thank you for pop- popping up, and I'm so glad that we've managed to get some fresh air into you ladies.
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: And maybe a little bit of a reset, but this is book two now, editing for book two, very exciting.
• 1:32
  Tina Strachan: So you have done it before, but, I don't know, I think every time's different, and that's what we're gonna get into.
• 1:37
  Tina Strachan: But it's not just editing because writing is your full-time job.
• 1:41
  Tina Strachan: You have other jobs, very big...
• 1:43
  Tina Strachan: You both have big, important and quite y- sort of tricky occupations.
• 1:47
  Tina Strachan: They're not jobs that you can just take and leave, and not to mention family commitments as well, which are always there.
• 1:53
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, can we have a little chat about that?
• 1:54
  Tina Strachan: How are you managing to fit it in?
• 1:56
  Tina Strachan: Let's do a check first.
• 1:57
  Tina Strachan: Ladies, Mads, where are we at?
• 1:59
  Tina Strachan: How's your current emotional state?
• 2:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh you guys saw me wolf down my lunch just before this.
• 2:05
  Tina Strachan: It was a sight, I have to say.
• 2:07
  Tina Strachan: It...
• 2:07
  Tina Strachan: I think it was a bowl of pasta, and it disappeared in-
• 2:10
  Natasha Rai: I
• 2:10
  Tina Strachan: know, I
• 2:11
  Natasha Rai: was actually quite
• 2:12
  Tina Strachan: impressed 30
• 2:13
  Madeleine Cleary: seconds.
• 2:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 2:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Me too.
• 2:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 2:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, just trying to...
• 2:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, how do you balance everything?
• 2:16
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't know.
• 2:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Currently recording this, and I'm hoping it's gonna be okay,'cause I'm s- hotspotting off my phone,'cause I couldn't work out how to connect to the, my workplace's internet.
• 2:27
  Madeleine Cleary: We're recording this podcast while I'm at my workplace.
• 2:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm on my lunch break, if my boss is listening, so don't worry, it's not on work time.
• 2:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Trying to, just balance everything.
• 2:36
  Madeleine Cleary: So this morning, I was up on the 7:07 train working away on my edits in my 50-minute train ride, trying to get through it.
• 2:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I think the...
• 2:46
  Madeleine Cleary: honestly, the edits are actually going okay.
• 2:49
  Madeleine Cleary: It's just, how do you stop feeling guilty about pushing back things?
• 2:56
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'm someone who, I'm a Type A personality, I admit it.
• 3:00
  Madeleine Cleary: I like to do everything, and I don't like to say no, and I don't like to disappoint people.
• 3:05
  Madeleine Cleary: And yeah, so for context I have received my edits back about a week ago and I've been given three weeks, which is a really tight deadline.
• 3:15
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's not copy edits, it's like a full, like a structural edit, a second round.
• 3:20
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's funny,'cause when I received it, I was like,"Oh, really?
• 3:23
  Madeleine Cleary: I thought maybe we could go straight to copy edits after the last one." But- reading through the comments from my editor and my publisher they were on point and they were so right.
• 3:32
  Madeleine Cleary: And they're so lovely.
• 3:33
  Madeleine Cleary: They did say,"If you need more time, let us know.
• 3:35
  Madeleine Cleary: We can try and work things around." But again, I'm a type A personality and I wanna deliver on deadline and on schedule.
• 3:41
  Madeleine Cleary: So yeah, in my mind I was like,"Okay, I'm gonna reschedule my whole life for the next three weeks and just focus on the edits," but that was not possible.
• 3:49
  Madeleine Cleary: I felt, yeah, I th- I...
• 3:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And I was saying this in the chat, I think I'm a type of person who actually needs to get out, and I'm a bit of an extrovert, and I get energy from people.
• 4:00
  Madeleine Cleary: And so even if I was not working, I think I'd find it really difficult to just stay at home all day and just do my edits'Cause I just think it's physically not possible.
• 4:09
  Madeleine Cleary: So on Saturday Melbourne Demons, my favorite, were playing against the top side, Fremantle, and my dad was going, and my bestie and her parents, and I almost pulled out.
• 4:21
  Madeleine Cleary: I almost said no.
• 4:23
  Madeleine Cleary: And,'cause it's like a whole day, right?
• 4:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Pretty much.
• 4:26
  Madeleine Cleary: And I decided to go, and I brought my laptop on the train to do my edits and stuff.
• 4:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Sorry, this is a very long answer to your s- question, Tina, but this is where my head is at.
• 4:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Had the best we won by four points.
• 4:37
  Tina Strachan: And we- It was a great game.
• 4:38
  Tina Strachan: Go D's.
• 4:40
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 4:40
  Tina Strachan: There was a lot of screaming out of my my husband's from Melbourne- Oh, cool and his family were up as well, so there was a lot of yelling.
• 4:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh my gosh, it w- being there was the best It was honestly probably the best day of my life, I actually think.
• 4:52
  Tina Strachan: Wow.
• 4:53
  Madeleine Cleary: It was so wonderful.
• 4:54
  Madeleine Cleary: We were all I was, like, hugging strangers.
• 4:57
  Madeleine Cleary: I had tears.
• 4:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Everyone was crying.
• 4:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Wow.
• 4:58
  Madeleine Cleary: It was just so wonderful.
• 5:00
  Madeleine Cleary: And and then I went home, and then I went and babysat my nieces that night, and I was exhausted, and I was happy, and I was joyful, and I was like,"Oh, my God, if I'd said no to all these things, I would've just missed out on life," right?
• 5:12
  Madeleine Cleary: 'Cause life doesn't stop when your edits come in.
• 5:14
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 5:15
  Tina Strachan: And do you think it's s- almost like it increases your productivity as well?
• 5:19
  Tina Strachan: Because which kind of sounds counterintuitive, but it's like the whole meditation thing.
• 5:23
  Tina Strachan: If you'd stayed home and tried to push through hours and hours more of edits, you possibly wouldn't have been that productive anyway, or it would've been rubbish, even not worth it.
• 5:31
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 5:31
  Tina Strachan: While we're sitting there, we're beating,
• 5:32
  Madeleine Cleary: beating the top side on the ladder- That's right and it's three games till the finals, and I'm just so excited.
• 5:38
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's so funny,'cause I've I feel so bad,'cause Oh, we have to have make our big announcement as well.
• 5:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 5:43
  Madeleine Cleary: We can announce this, which we will in a sec, but I'll we'll talk about that funny thing that- I mentioned, and what might happen.
• 5:49
  Madeleine Cleary: When we
• 5:49
  Tina Strachan: announce.
• 5:50
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 5:50
  Tina Strachan: Yes, I know-'cause that is cool.
• 5:52
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 5:52
  Tina Strachan: So I'm loving that.
• 5:53
  Tina Strachan: And I love that sort of, a- advice there, Mads.
• 5:57
  Tina Strachan: For those,'cause everybody's different, but potentially for your- like yourself as an extrovert and other extroverts come these really busy times with deadlines, sometimes it is good to just get out and keep doing your thing, or socializing, or making that contact.
• 6:09
  Tina Strachan: It's a circuit breaker.
• 6:09
  Tina Strachan: It maybe refreshes you for some really good writing when you get back to it, instead of just trying to slog through.
• 6:16
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree, and it makes I agree with you, Tina.
• 6:17
  Madeleine Cleary: It makes you more productive.
• 6:18
  Madeleine Cleary: That, 50 minutes on the train, super productive.
• 6:21
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 6:22
  Tina Strachan: Yes, I love that.
• 6:23
  Tina Strachan: And what about you, Tash?
• 6:24
  Tina Strachan: Ch- mental health check, how we going?
• 6:26
  Natasha Rai: Wow.
• 6:27
  Natasha Rai: My experience of edits is so different to yours, Mads.
• 6:31
  Natasha Rai: Because I am one of those people who can literally sit for eight hours- Yeah, same and just be completely immersed, which is what I've been doing.
• 6:38
  Natasha Rai: Because I'm literally on the same deadline as you are.
• 6:41
  Natasha Rai: I had three weeks, and while it's a copy edit- no one could ever mistake my manuscript as being one generated by AI because she has literally edited every single sentence in this 100,000 page of words, sorry, manuscript.
• 6:59
  Natasha Rai: So I'm literally sentence by sentence checking out the voice, the rhythm, if it's matches me, blah, blah, blah before I accept...
• 7:05
  Natasha Rai: And she's just moving things around.
• 7:06
  Natasha Rai: She's not rewriting anything, but she's been so thorough.
• 7:09
  Natasha Rai: And then alongside the copy edits, there are some structural changes that are still needed.
• 7:15
  Natasha Rai: So I've been doing the opposite of you because I've found that the few social things I have kept, all I can do is think about my edits.
• 7:23
  Natasha Rai: And I just bore the shit out of people by going-"And so I'll have to do this, and then I have to do this." And my non-writer friends are just like okay, so just do it." But my, my writer friends are like,"Oh my God, get home now.
• 7:35
  Natasha Rai: Do it." Yes.
• 7:36
  Natasha Rai: And also, I guess for me it's a tricky situation because I had received my structural edits...
• 7:46
  Natasha Rai: No, I had w- bef- while I was waiting for my copy editors to come back, my publisher, Pantera Press, was consolidated into Hardie Grant, and they no longer exist in that form.
• 7:57
  Natasha Rai: And so now I have a new publisher.
• 7:59
  Natasha Rai: So it's been a, a rollercoaster's probably not the right word, more like a plunging into the depths that I didn't know were there.
• 8:07
  Natasha Rai: And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just obviously lots of change in a very short p- period of time, while the book has to keep going through all these different stages of editing.
• 8:18
  Natasha Rai: So yeah, it's just a lot.
• 8:21
  Natasha Rai: It's
• 8:22
  Madeleine Cleary: really tough, Tash.
• 8:23
  Madeleine Cleary: It's significant, isn't it?
• 8:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 8:24
  Madeleine Cleary: At this point in the book as well,'cause you, you want...
• 8:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I suppose the o- the other thing you're always thinking is you're like, I w- you want people, to support it, and they will.
• 8:32
  Madeleine Cleary: They absolutely will support it.
• 8:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Of course they
• 8:33
  Natasha Rai: will, yes.
• 8:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Because you've poured so much of yourself into this- Yeah and you want it to have the easiest journey to publication, but sometimes- Exactly that's not always the way it goes.
• 8:41
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 8:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 8:42
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 8:43
  Natasha Rai: So I'm finding that for me, focused, long, like long days are qui- quite good.
• 8:49
  Natasha Rai: And I've realized that it's, it...
• 8:51
  Natasha Rai: while it's great for the creative part of me and the brain part I am noticing like my body is"Can you please move now?" So I have to remind myself that I can get it done in the time.
• 9:04
  Natasha Rai: 'Cause I'm like you, I'm like, I cannot have any d- extensions.
• 9:08
  Natasha Rai: They haven't offered me one, in all fairness, and I haven't asked because I'm just like I have to get it back by that time." So yeah,
• 9:16
  Madeleine Cleary: it's real.
• 9:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Why do we do it to ourselves?
• 9:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Like-
• 9:17
  Tina Strachan: Cause we wanna be the teacher's pet, okay?
• 9:19
  Tina Strachan: We just wanna do the right thing, and we want our publishers to love us, that's why.
• 9:23
  Natasha Rai: I know, and I'm like, not only am I a massive book nerd, but I'm like a massive rule nerd too.
• 9:28
  Natasha Rai: If someone says to me,"Don't go there," even if I really want to, I'll be like,"Okay," and I just won't do it.
• 9:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you ever ask to, for an extension, Tina, when you were doing The Weight?
• 9:36
  Tina Strachan: I did in the end.
• 9:37
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I did for something...
• 9:41
  Tina Strachan: Oh, look, I had COVID at one point, right?
• 9:43
  Tina Strachan: The week that I, it was due, and my brain just couldn't do it.
• 9:47
  Tina Strachan: It couldn't function.
• 9:48
  Tina Strachan: And I just would open it up, and I'd just stare at the screen.
• 9:51
  Tina Strachan: I think everyone's had COVID now, right?
• 9:52
  Tina Strachan: We all understand what that brain fog is and-
• 9:54
  Natasha Rai: And
• 9:55
  Tina Strachan: all I wanted to do was, like, lie on the couch and just stare at the wall.
• 9:57
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, so I'd open up my computer and just stare at it like,"What is even happening?" I just co- I couldn't string it together.
• 10:04
  Tina Strachan: And, of course, they were so fine with extending it.
• 10:07
  Tina Strachan: I just, I was just like,"I just need another week," or two, I think it was in the end.
• 10:11
  Tina Strachan: And everyone I know who has asked for extensions, it's always been so fine.
• 10:16
  Tina Strachan: I'm sure there's times where it's probably not fine.
• 10:19
  Tina Strachan: Although I'd say the publishers maybe do work in a little bit of space for this kind of thing to happen, or there might be a little bit of give or take, I suppose- with some, with the next kind of cogs in the wheel that, that we come up to.
• 10:31
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 10:32
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:33
  Tina Strachan: So-
• 10:33
  Natasha Rai: Yeah and I really wanna ask you, Tina, in a moment about what you've been up to, but I just wanna say one last thing.
• 10:38
  Natasha Rai: You know how a couple of episodes ago we were talking about- learning to write the book.
• 10:44
  Natasha Rai: We were talking about how the experience of writing book two or an, or a second book, or even third, fourth, et cetera.
• 10:50
  Natasha Rai: I was thinking about this the other day.
• 10:52
  Natasha Rai: Just like when, as readers, you pick up a book and you s- and you have to figure out how to read the book, and the author is showing you how to read it, I th- I feel it feels to me that the editing process is teaching me how to actually make this book better,'cause I actually didn't know until now.
• 11:13
  Natasha Rai: And all the- That's
• 11:14
  Madeleine Cleary: great
• 11:15
  Natasha Rai: yeah, and all of this feedback, while it's hardcore and it's, it's str- in, in some parts stressful, it's also really clarifying things.
• 11:22
  Natasha Rai: Oh, I didn't know that this was missing, or I didn't know I could do that and this could be better.
• 11:28
  Natasha Rai: So I'm really learning about my own book, so which is really cool.
• 11:32
  Madeleine Cleary: And Tash, w- with An Onslaught of Light, did y- what was the copy edit like?
• 11:36
  Madeleine Cleary: 'Cause I, I remember you'd done actually a lot of structural work before- Yeah you even got picked up.
• 11:40
  Madeleine Cleary: So you And you were really far ahead in an, in advance- Yes of publication as well.
• 11:44
  Madeleine Cleary: So what was your copy edit?
• 11:46
  Natasha Rai: Oh, it was so light.
• 11:47
  Natasha Rai: And I remember- my publisher at the time, Kate, was saying,"This is the lightest copy edit I've ever seen." Which now makes sense to me looking back, because I did so much work on it.
• 11:56
  Natasha Rai: And the last editor that I worked with before I started submitting, she went sentence level with me.
• 12:02
  Natasha Rai: That's how much she cared about the manuscript,
• 12:05
  Tina Strachan: but you have ti- you had time, right?
• 12:07
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, I had so much time.
• 12:07
  Natasha Rai: This is
• 12:07
  Tina Strachan: the difference, I think, when you have a deadline- is you're not submitting it when you've had enough when you've had all that time to sit on it.
• 12:16
  Tina Strachan: True.
• 12:16
  Tina Strachan: True.
• 12:16
  Tina Strachan: If, it, when it's your work before you start submitting it, you take as long as you want, and you can sit on it and you can put it away and you do all that sort of stuff to it.
• 12:25
  Tina Strachan: And you do your own structural edits as time goes on.
• 12:27
  Tina Strachan: And like you said, you're learning how to write it.
• 12:29
  Tina Strachan: That would've been a natural process anyway.
• 12:32
  Tina Strachan: It's just- Y- yeah, you feel like you're doing it through this editing process in this squeezed amount of time, but you probably would have done that anyway, but now it just feels a little bit more maybe rushed or something because-
• 12:44
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, it's just a much tighter time.
• 12:47
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:48
  Natasha Rai: But it- it's good to just realize that too, that this is actually I'm learning lots, and it's- Yeah it's really good.
• 12:55
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 12:55
  Madeleine Cleary: I completely agree.
• 12:56
  Madeleine Cleary: I, I f- find it's funny'cause when I submitted my first structural edit I thought,"Oh, I've done this before.
• 13:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I think this is good now.
• 13:04
  Madeleine Cleary: I think it's ready for the next editing stage." And that- that's ha-'cause I just had that feeling.
• 13:09
  Madeleine Cleary: And when it came back, I felt like I'd done something wrong, like I hadn't p- I hadn't hit the mark.
• 13:15
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I actually apologized to my publisher and my editor,"I'm so sorry that it wasn't fully formed and'cause I thought it was, and I'm sorry that we have to go through this." And in the email as well, another point where I thought I'd failed was she'd said,"After this we'll also do another line level edit," so kind of that sentence by sentence, Tash, before it even goes to a copy.
• 13:34
  Madeleine Cleary: And I was thinking,"Oh, my God, it's Is it really bad?
• 13:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Is this really bad?" And and then, reading through the feedback I was like no, they're right." And thinking about it more, the reason why they're wanting to do all this is'cause they really care about the
• 13:48
  Natasha Rai: book.
• 13:48
  Natasha Rai: Absolutely.
• 13:48
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 13:48
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 13:49
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And they wanna get it into the best, its best format, like what you were saying, Tash.
• 13:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Madeleine Cleary: You're now starting to see what this book is, and I think I will have that experience- Yes in the next sort of couple arounds.
• 14:00
  Natasha Rai: And if you need to feel better, Mads, I can send you my copy edits with all her track changes.
• 14:05
  Natasha Rai: Do you
• 14:06
  Madeleine Cleary: know, my, my editor wrote back immediately.
• 14:08
  Madeleine Cleary: She's like,"Don't apologize." She's like,"Nobody gets it right the first time."
• 14:13
  Tina Strachan: This is a process, and it's teamwork now, and that's the difference too.
• 14:16
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 14:16
  Tina Strachan: And you certainly do get your manuscript to a point where you're like, I can either sit on it for six months or, I could send it to somebody to help me look at it with different eyes." And I guess that's what your publishers are- now, and look, they have to give us a deadline'cause otherwise we just never submit it.
• 14:32
  Tina Strachan: We tinker on it, with it for, years.
• 14:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, that's right.
• 14:36
  Madeleine Cleary: And also we're managing, books that are like 100,000 words and- complex plots and- characters and stories and arcs, and we're all doing that in our brain- just in our little individual brain.
• 14:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Like-
• 14:47
  Tina Strachan: It's a lot of
• 14:47
  Madeleine Cleary: course we're not gonna get it right?
• 14:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Type A personality.
• 14:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 14:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Why?
• 14:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Why?
• 14:52
  Tina Strachan: It is, and it is because they care,'cause yes I remember you messaging something about that recently.
• 14:57
  Tina Strachan: I could see you, and I forgot to i- respond back'cause my response was going to be,"It is just because they wanna make it as good as they can be." And when you do those big structural edits, that's when you do sometimes stuff up the lines anyway bec- And yeah, so you do need to go back through and have that big line edit again and then do the copy edit, otherwise you can miss stuff.
• 15:16
  Tina Strachan: It's great that they're putting in that time and effort.
• 15:19
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause maybe some place, some publishers or some authors just don't also get that amount of rounds potentially as well.
• 15:24
  Tina Strachan: Yes, because I've been watching you too on the, from the outside looking in because I'm not in any big editing phase at all.
• 15:31
  Tina Strachan: I'm in the fun, creative, flowy world of just r- of writing and creating at the moment.
• 15:37
  Tina Strachan: So I can see it from the outside.
• 15:39
  Tina Strachan: I can see where you're at and I, I think you even said from the outside looking in, I can see what's happening here, and you're doing the actual process that we all do every single time, and we know it, but when we're in it, we just lose that hindsight of this is where we go.
• 15:53
  Tina Strachan: We take these dips.
• 15:54
  Tina Strachan: We doubt ourselves.
• 15:55
  Tina Strachan: We go this is rubbish.
• 15:56
  Tina Strachan: This is terrible.
• 15:57
  Tina Strachan: Why did they even sign this book?
• 15:58
  Tina Strachan: What are they even thinking?
• 16:00
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna apologize to my publisher," when it's the...
• 16:02
  Tina Strachan: it's like, no, this is the process.
• 16:04
  Tina Strachan: We doubt ourselves.
• 16:05
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 16:05
  Natasha Rai: I a- I apologized to my publisher too.
• 16:07
  Natasha Rai: I was like,"I think your colleague made a mistake when they took this to acquisitions." I actually said that.
• 16:12
  Tina Strachan: What?
• 16:13
  Natasha Rai: And she was looking at me.
• 16:13
  Natasha Rai: She was like- What?
• 16:14
  Natasha Rai: "No, that's not...
• 16:15
  Natasha Rai: No."
• 16:17
  Tina Strachan: It's the process.
• 16:18
  Tina Strachan: It's all p- signed authors, published authors, or new authors, it's just the process that...
• 16:24
  Tina Strachan: It's just the mandatory process.
• 16:25
  Tina Strachan: We all have to go through it.
• 16:27
  Tina Strachan: That's
• 16:27
  Madeleine Cleary: it.
• 16:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I highly recommend everyone has a Tina Strachan in their life as well to- Oh, I agree help with these things because honestly, Tina has been carrying this podcast for the last two months, I would say.
• 16:36
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 16:39
  Tina Strachan: Oh, lucky I love it, and I love you girls no.
• 16:42
  Tina Strachan: Oh, no, it's been fun.
• 16:43
  Tina Strachan: Thank you, Tina.
• 16:44
  Tina Strachan: And we take our turn, we take our turns, don't we?
• 16:45
  Tina Strachan: Yes, we all...
• 16:46
  Tina Strachan: It all ebbs and flows
• 16:52
  Lisa Nan Ju: Hi, I'm Lisa Nan Ju, and I'm super excited to introduce you to my debut novel, Mother Waters.
• 16:59
  Lisa Nan Ju: This is a book about the ocean and grief and scientific obsession.
• 17:04
  Lisa Nan Ju: At the heart of this book is Charlie, a marine scientist who leaves her oppressive marriage and embarks on an expedition to a mysterious ocean trench where her father disappeared when she was young.
• 17:17
  Lisa Nan Ju: The person financing this mission is Dexter, the entitled son of a billionaire who's grappling with his own father's legacy.
• 17:25
  Lisa Nan Ju: As Charlie and Dexter descend into the trench, they find themselves uncovering not just the dazzling creatures of the deep, but also their own buried histories.
• 17:35
  Lisa Nan Ju: Mother Waters combines the ecological creepiness of annihilation with some of that egoistic greed that we love from Succession.
• 17:44
  Lisa Nan Ju: It's a haunting literary adventure, exploring the lengths to which we'll go to get answers.
• 17:51
  Lisa Nan Ju: Mother Waters is published by Affirm Press, and it's out now in all good bookstores.
• 17:59
  Madeleine Cleary: what are you up to, Tina?
• 18:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, what are you up to?
• 18:03
  Madeleine Cleary: What's left on the flowy- Give us some good news yeah, the flowy
• 18:04
  Tina Strachan: side?
• 18:04
  Tina Strachan: Flowy creative.
• 18:04
  Tina Strachan: Oh, okay.
• 18:05
  Tina Strachan: Lots of flowy creative writing at the moment, which has been super fun playing with a few ideas.
• 18:11
  Tina Strachan: But also, so we're in August at the moment, and August is basically book month for k- children's literature.
• 18:20
  Tina Strachan: The Children's Book Council of Australia have an actual, designated Book Week, which is next week, and that's when the schools do their...
• 18:29
  Tina Strachan: A lot of school author talks, and like the Dress Up Book Week parade thing, which is always very cool.
• 18:35
  Tina Strachan: And so that's the main week, but it's like over the last, few years or more spread out past that and, it's not just that week where authors are doing talks.
• 18:44
  Tina Strachan: It's all throughout the month, and even flowing into September, and just lots of other events that are surrounding that week.
• 18:50
  Tina Strachan: So I've got a few events coming up.
• 18:53
  Tina Strachan: I've got two this weekend.
• 18:54
  Tina Strachan: I'm on the Sunshine Coast this weekend.
• 18:55
  Tina Strachan: I've got some school visits over the next couple of weeks.
• 18:58
  Tina Strachan: And so preparing for that because as fun as they are, you do always have to...
• 19:03
  Tina Strachan: I feel like I'm always updating my presentations before I go because things have changed or I come up with a new idea or, you see what works and then, or what doesn't work, and then you wanna change it a little bit for next time.
• 19:14
  Tina Strachan: So that takes up a fair bit of time as well doing that, and just the admin of, liaising with the schools and the venues and preparing.
• 19:20
  Tina Strachan: I've got my box of goodies with all my, little bits and pieces and I'm, making sure I've got enough little activity sheets and all those sorts of things.
• 19:27
  Tina Strachan: But and then, we have another very big event in September, don't we?
• 19:33
  Tina Strachan: Who wants to do the honors in in announcing-
• 19:36
  Madeleine Cleary: You do it, Tina
• 19:37
  Tina Strachan: our fun event.
• 19:37
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 19:37
  Madeleine Cleary: you do it.
• 19:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 19:39
  Tina Strachan: The Book Deal podcast is going to be hosting a live podcast episode, live podcast chat with our special guest of honor, Toni Jordan, and it will be at the- Woo woo-hoo.
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: It'll be at the Emerging Writers' Festival in Melbourne
• 19:56
  Madeleine Cleary: next week- Melbourne
• 19:56
  Tina Strachan: next month.
• 19:57
  Tina Strachan: I've forgotten the dates.
• 19:58
  Tina Strachan: Who remembers them?
• 19:59
  Madeleine Cleary: 12th of September.
• 20:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Let me just double-check my calendar.
• 20:03
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, like a month from today.
• 20:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Ah, so exciting.
• 20:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Very exciting.
• 20:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, Saturday the 12th, 4:15 PM, and it's part of the National Writers' Conference at the Emerging Writer Centre.
• 20:13
  Madeleine Cleary: So you can purchase a ticket for both days,'cause it's over that whole weekend, and you can attend.
• 20:18
  Madeleine Cleary: They've got some amazing sessions for emerging writers.
• 20:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Not just emerging, but also established writers as well.
• 20:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Or you can just come to our session.
• 20:25
  Madeleine Cleary: So you can purchase an individual ticket.
• 20:27
  Madeleine Cleary: It's gonna be really fun.
• 20:27
  Madeleine Cleary: It's at the Wheeler Centre.
• 20:29
  Madeleine Cleary: It's a beautiful venue.
• 20:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Toni Jordan's gonna be our agony aunt, so you can ask whatever question you want, and we're gonna...
• 20:36
  Madeleine Cleary: We've got a way to submit anonymous questions as well, so that way you can submit anything you like and she'll answer it live on stage.
• 20:43
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's gonna be really fun, and we get to be together in person.
• 20:46
  Tina Strachan: Yay.
• 20:46
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 20:46
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 20:47
  Tina Strachan: I don't know what part I'm more excited about.
• 20:49
  Tina Strachan: Coming, seeing you guys in person.
• 20:51
  Tina Strachan: Just hanging out hanging out with Toni Jordan, being at the Emerging Writers' Festival.
• 20:56
  Tina Strachan: The whole weekend's gonna be pretty amazing.
• 20:58
  Tina Strachan: But like you said Mads, there is a way that people can submit their questions before the event.
• 21:04
  Tina Strachan: So we have a link, and I'll link it in the show notes.
• 21:06
  Tina Strachan: It's also you can get to it from our Instagram page.
• 21:09
  Tina Strachan: It's just a Jotform.
• 21:11
  Tina Strachan: It's just simply you pop in whatever question you want.
• 21:13
  Tina Strachan: Make it juicy, make it scary, make it controversial.
• 21:16
  Tina Strachan: We don't mind.
• 21:17
  Tina Strachan: Toni's keen for it.
• 21:18
  Tina Strachan: She's down for it.
• 21:19
  Tina Strachan: So anything that you wanna ask about publishing, writing.
• 21:22
  Tina Strachan: We've got a couple so far, some agents, some, some really good questions so far.
• 21:25
  Tina Strachan: So if you have a burning question that you wanna ask, now's the time.
• 21:29
  Tina Strachan: Even if you can't be in there, be there in person, send us the question anyway, because the episode is rec- is going to be recorded, so we will play that on, the podcast.
• 21:38
  Tina Strachan: You'll be able to listen to it through however you listen to your podcasts.
• 21:41
  Tina Strachan: And
• 21:41
  Madeleine Cleary: we've just- obviously, if you are here in Melbourne, you should definitely come.
• 21:44
  Madeleine Cleary: It's gonna be a great opportunity to be there live in person with Toni.
• 21:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'm sure she'll be signing books at the end as well.
• 21:51
  Madeleine Cleary: So if you wanted to come up and say hi afterwards, I'm sure she would be most willing.
• 21:55
  Tina Strachan: Because we did something last year very similar, didn't we in Sydney, and we did with Hayley Scrivener.
• 21:59
  Tina Strachan: She was our agony aunt, and that was hugely successful, a ton of fun.
• 22:03
  Tina Strachan: And we think we'll probably, we're gonna try and make it a yearly thing, aren't we?
• 22:06
  Tina Strachan: A live podcast- Yes with an awesome agony aunt guest.
• 22:08
  Tina Strachan: So stay
• 22:09
  Madeleine Cleary: tuned.
• 22:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, and the, the little thing that I wanted to mention earlier is there is a risk that we won't be able to, Yeah have dinner afterwards- Yeah because Melbourne Demons might be in the finals.
• 22:20
  Tina Strachan: Madeleine's already warned us that she may have to ditch us because she'll have to go from that to the Melbourne Demons game.
• 22:26
  Tina Strachan: Who knows?
• 22:26
  Tina Strachan: It's okay.
• 22:26
  Natasha Rai: Tina, you and I will make our own fun.
• 22:28
  Tina Strachan: Yes,
• 22:28
  Madeleine Cleary: we will.
• 22:29
  Madeleine Cleary: You've flown all the way to Melbourne.
• 22:30
  Madeleine Cleary: No.
• 22:30
  Madeleine Cleary: You're not allowed to have fun.
• 22:31
  Madeleine Cleary: You just have to go back home- Oh,
• 22:33
  Tina Strachan: okay
• 22:33
  Madeleine Cleary: sit in silence while I- go to the football,'cause I don't wanna have- Yes any FOMO, so-
• 22:37
  Tina Strachan: Yeah have no fun We'll definitely do that.
• 22:39
  Tina Strachan: You won't be thinking about us.
• 22:40
  Tina Strachan: You'll be too busy watching the game.
• 22:41
  Tina Strachan: I know how huge it would be.
• 22:43
  Tina Strachan: And hugging
• 22:43
  Natasha Rai: strangers and crying.
• 22:44
  Natasha Rai: Exactly.
• 22:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Tina Strachan: Or or- And we may be doing the same, just not at the footy.
• 22:52
  Tina Strachan: It depends how the edits go.
• 22:53
  Tina Strachan: It's all, it's
• 22:55
  Madeleine Cleary: all good.
• 22:56
  Madeleine Cleary: There might be- Oh a big party after the final, so look.
• 22:58
  Tina Strachan: We'll meet you there.
• 22:59
  Tina Strachan: We'll meet you there.
• 23:00
  Madeleine Cleary: It's two worlds colliding.
• 23:01
  Tina Strachan: It is.
• 23:01
  Tina Strachan: It's perfect.
• 23:02
  Tina Strachan: Perfect.
• 23:03
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 23:03
  Tina Strachan: All right.
• 23:04
  Tina Strachan: Ladies, I don't wanna take up too much of your time because you need to get back to work, you need to get back to edits.
• 23:09
  Tina Strachan: So you've given us some good tips and advice already for editing.
• 23:14
  Tina Strachan: Tell me, w- do you have any...
• 23:15
  Tina Strachan: What's your number one tip for anyone going through the editing process or about to come up to the editing process?
• 23:24
  Natasha Rai: Okay, I've got one.
• 23:24
  Natasha Rai: I've been noticing that sometimes when the editor's been asking questions, I get really defensive, when I read them in the manuscript.
• 23:31
  Natasha Rai: And so every time I do that, I just take a beat, and I'm like,"What am I getting so upset about?" And 100% of the time now it's because she's found a problem that I secretly know about, but I was hoping I'd somehow, y- I don't know what, something.
• 23:46
  Natasha Rai: And so it's forcing me to just be really clear-eyed about what's still missing, and thinking very specifically about things that I can fix.
• 23:57
  Natasha Rai: So it's not like broad strokes, I don't know about this.
• 24:00
  Natasha Rai: It's very specific questions.
• 24:02
  Natasha Rai: And actually, while it's hard to read them and to accept that there's still things that need to be fixed, it's hugely helpful.
• 24:11
  Natasha Rai: So if you're getting very specific feedback, pay attention.
• 24:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,'cause they always I find that.
• 24:16
  Tina Strachan: If you If you've been thinking it yourself, there's a reason for it, and they will always find it, and tell you and call you out on it, always.
• 24:24
  Tina Strachan: But that sometimes you do just need those, that extra pair of eyes and that extra voice to tell you.
• 24:29
  Tina Strachan: What about you, Mads?
• 24:30
  Tina Strachan: What have you got?
• 24:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, and a- actually, just to add to that as well, sometimes you might not even be thinking it, but it, like you feel it in your gut.
• 24:37
  Madeleine Cleary: That there's some kind of issue, but you're not sure what it is, and you can't articulate what that is.
• 24:40
  Madeleine Cleary: They always pick it up, don't they?
• 24:42
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 24:44
  Tina Strachan: That's good.
• 24:45
  Tina Strachan: That's the beauty of it, though, isn't it?
• 24:46
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 24:47
  Madeleine Cleary: I think my top tip goes back to what we were talking about earlier.
• 24:50
  Madeleine Cleary: There's no need to apologize You haven't got it wrong.
• 24:55
  Madeleine Cleary: This is a process.
• 24:57
  Madeleine Cleary: You've gotta trust the process.
• 24:58
  Madeleine Cleary: And I maybe need to take my own advice, but just go with it.
• 25:02
  Madeleine Cleary: You haven't failed anything.
• 25:04
  Madeleine Cleary: And also maybe to en- enjoy it as well, because like you said, Tina, you're watching from the outside, you've got that hindsight.
• 25:11
  Madeleine Cleary: You you understand the hindsight.
• 25:12
  Madeleine Cleary: We're right in the middle of it.
• 25:13
  Madeleine Cleary: But this is exciting too.
• 25:15
  Madeleine Cleary: It is exciting to see the book take shape.
• 25:16
  Madeleine Cleary: And Tash said earlier it really starts to become the book that it's meant to be- which is really cool.
• 25:21
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 25:22
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I think I explained it to you ladies in a message actually, that it is, much like having a baby.
• 25:27
  Tina Strachan: You
• 25:28
  Madeleine Cleary: know?
• 25:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Not that we know.
• 25:29
  Madeleine Cleary: We know-
• 25:30
  Tina Strachan: That- Yeah, exactly.
• 25:30
  Tina Strachan: We don't
• 25:30
  Natasha Rai: know
• 25:31
  Tina Strachan: but you're birthing a book is the thing, right?
• 25:33
  Tina Strachan: So it's very similar, I think.
• 25:36
  Tina Strachan: It's painful, it hurts.
• 25:39
  Tina Strachan: You cry.
• 25:39
  Tina Strachan: It's messy.
• 25:39
  Tina Strachan: It's messy.
• 25:40
  Tina Strachan: It's messy.
• 25:41
  Tina Strachan: It You cry.
• 25:42
  Tina Strachan: It wrecks your body.
• 25:44
  Tina Strachan: You just You're never the same again afterwards, but in a really good way.
• 25:49
  Tina Strachan: And it's the endorphins and it's all those lovely chemicals that flood your body afterwards and the hormones and all the things that make you actually forget that time, because I bet when you guys came into edit, you'd forgotten, the nitty-gritty and of the, and the mental space and how you felt last time.
• 26:05
  Tina Strachan: And then it comes back to you- and you're like,"Oh my God, what have I done?
• 26:07
  Tina Strachan: Why am I doing this again?" And
• 26:09
  Madeleine Cleary: then- It's true,'cause you're like,"Oh I've birthed one before, surely birthing a second-" Nothing.
• 26:13
  Madeleine Cleary: It's
• 26:13
  Tina Strachan: the
• 26:13
  Madeleine Cleary: same.
• 26:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah,
• 26:14
  Tina Strachan: exactly.
• 26:14
  Tina Strachan: Makes you forget the pa- Yeah makes you forget the pain, and then you go through it again.
• 26:18
  Tina Strachan: And so just remember, in a couple months you will forget the pain again, and then you'll have this beautiful book baby to show
• 26:24
  Natasha Rai: for it.
• 26:24
  Natasha Rai: Aw.
• 26:25
  Tina Strachan: Aw.
• 26:25
  Tina Strachan: And you'll feel
• 26:26
  Madeleine Cleary: proud.
• 26:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Thanks, Tina.
• 26:26
  Madeleine Cleary: So
• 26:27
  Tina Strachan: that's my top
• 26:27
  Madeleine Cleary: tip.
• 26:28
  Madeleine Cleary: I actually- Thanks, Tina feel better.
• 26:29
  Natasha Rai: I actually do as well.
• 26:31
  Natasha Rai: I'm like- Oh, good i'm birthing." Oh, maybe not.
• 26:33
  Natasha Rai: Doing We don't need me shouting, I'm birthing." That's
• 26:37
  Madeleine Cleary: gonna be the promo for our new intro, I think.
• 26:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, we're not cutting that.
• 26:42
  Madeleine Cleary: That's not getting cut.
• 26:45
  Tina Strachan: Oh, no, you ladies are incredible.
• 26:47
  Tina Strachan: You're doing amazing things
• 26:48
  Natasha Rai: can I just do one final plug?
• 26:50
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 26:51
  Natasha Rai: Tina?
• 26:51
  Natasha Rai: A year ago- You and I, in a couple of days- Landed on Magnetic Island.
• 26:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 26:57
  Natasha Rai: Don't we-
• 26:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Don't raise this.
• 26:58
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm still pained over this.
• 27:01
  Natasha Rai: So for listeners who wanna go back to our old eps, Tina and I did a very special episode from Magnetic Island.
• 27:08
  Natasha Rai: Straight after she jumped in the pool.
• 27:10
  Natasha Rai: I remember.
• 27:10
  Tina Strachan: Literally straight after.
• 27:11
  Natasha Rai: Literally straight after.
• 27:12
  Natasha Rai: That was a great time.
• 27:13
  Natasha Rai: It was.
• 27:14
  Natasha Rai: So feel free to go back in the archives and check that one.
• 27:16
  Madeleine Cleary: And especially in winter, it's a nice thing to imagine, isn't
• 27:18
  Tina Strachan: it?
• 27:18
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 27:18
  Tina Strachan: Yes, the Writers on the Reef residency, that was.
• 27:21
  Tina Strachan: And James Cook University and the Ro- Roderick Centre.
• 27:24
  Tina Strachan: They, though, this year's residents would be probably planning to leave soon.
• 27:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:29
  Tina Strachan: Already there.
• 27:30
  Tina Strachan: I think so.
• 27:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:31
  Tina Strachan: So yes, go back and listen to it.
• 27:33
  Tina Strachan: Lots of hot tips.
• 27:34
  Tina Strachan: We interview Nicole Crowe, who's also a author- But gives us lots of hot tips on how to make a cracker of a submission to increase your chances of being the next residence- Exactly on the beautiful Magnetic Island.
• 27:47
  Tina Strachan: So-
• 27:48
  Natasha Rai: Exactly
• 27:48
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna go back and look at the photos now.
• 27:50
  Natasha Rai: Me too.
• 27:52
  Tina Strachan: All right, ladies, get back to it.
• 27:53
  Tina Strachan: Go do those edits.
• 27:55
  Natasha Rai: Thanks.
• 27:56
  Natasha Rai: Thanks.
• 27:56
  Natasha Rai: Bye.
• 27:57
  Natasha Rai: Bye.
• 27:58
  Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: If you are enjoying the pod, we'd really appreciate you following or sharing the show in your podcast directory, checking us out on Instagram and Facebook, or supporting us through our Patreon community at patreon.com/thebookdealpodcast