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Listener Mailbag: The fans aren't happy and want to know who is to blame · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: You have to put the blame on the players, blaming
0:02
Speaker 1: the coaches his escapegoat. The Cubs have done it far
0:06
Speaker 1: too often. Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks
0:17
Speaker 1: Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma, my co host Patrick Mooney
0:22
Speaker 1: and I recorded a podcast earlier today. It's listener feedback,
0:26
Speaker 1: your questions, your thoughts on the Cubs. Unsurprisingly, you are
0:31
Speaker 1: none too happy with the way things are going. Patrick
0:35
Speaker 1: is likely on his way back from San Francisco right now.
0:38
Speaker 1: Where the Cubs lost three or four, they salvaged that
0:41
Speaker 1: fourth one today. You know, it's good. It's good that
0:46
Speaker 1: they won a game, right, but I wouldn't take too
0:49
Speaker 1: much away from it other than hey, it was nice
0:52
Speaker 1: to see Hector, Narris and Porter Hodge look good. Bounce
0:56
Speaker 1: back for show to Inmanaga is important. Luke Little was good,
1:00
Speaker 1: Tyson Miller the bullpen, the pitching was good, right, and
1:02
Speaker 1: Shoda wasn't dominant, but he was much better than his
1:06
Speaker 1: last outing. It's important to see him just have average
1:11
Speaker 1: outings too, bounce back from tough, tough nights. So you'll
1:16
Speaker 1: take that win.
1:17
Speaker 2: It's they have a lot of work to do.
1:19
Speaker 1: Right, we're past the halfway point here and the Cubs
1:22
Speaker 1: are six games under five hundred. They are still a
1:26
Speaker 1: last place team. They're not playing well enough. I don't
1:30
Speaker 1: think anybody would disagree with that. That's why we got
1:34
Speaker 1: the questions that we did. Why don't we get.
1:37
Speaker 2: Right to that?
1:39
Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, let's hear what the fans have to say.
1:42
Speaker 1: Get to some of these questions. What do you what
1:45
Speaker 1: do you got for me?
1:45
Speaker 2: Here? All right?
1:47
Speaker 3: We got our guy Evan Altman wondering what beer is
1:53
Speaker 3: best suited to either drown out or celebrate these games.
1:56
Speaker 4: With the way the Cubs are playing. This is you
2:00
Speaker 4: got any.
2:00
Speaker 3: West Coast I Pas season's going down the drain and
2:04
Speaker 3: in San Francisco?
2:05
Speaker 4: What What's what are you drinking these days?
2:08
Speaker 2: Oh? Man?
2:08
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, I'm not as much into beer anymore.
2:12
Speaker 1: Just I mean, I still drink it. I still love beer.
2:15
Speaker 1: It's just I'm getting old and it gets heavy on you.
2:17
Speaker 1: So it's loggers mostly for me. Got to keep it light.
2:20
Speaker 1: It's ninety five degrees out here, but today's a beautiful day,
2:22
Speaker 1: but it's been ninety five degrees in Chicago. Listen, this
2:26
Speaker 1: Cub season is going down the drain quickly. Uh you need,
2:30
Speaker 1: you need the harder stuff than beer. So I suggest
2:33
Speaker 1: perusing the bourbon aisle, finding some good bourbon and sipping that,
2:37
Speaker 1: especially with these West Coast games. I know they're wrapping
2:40
Speaker 1: up now, no more West Coast games, but until l
2:45
Speaker 1: a right and that that the season may be well
2:47
Speaker 1: over by then. So uh so, uh, I say, I say,
2:52
Speaker 1: switched to bourbon and today would be you know, day drinking.
2:57
Speaker 2: But you know, just do what you gotta do.
3:00
Speaker 3: Another one for you here. I think this has been
3:03
Speaker 3: in a couple different spots. William Vogally, what is the
3:07
Speaker 3: likelihood that David Ross will get another chance to manage
3:09
Speaker 3: an MLB team? Was the industry consensus that he'd acquitted
3:14
Speaker 3: himself well as Cubs manager or that the dismissal after
3:17
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three was deserved. Do the Cub struggles this
3:20
Speaker 3: year make him look better in retrospect?
3:24
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Patrick, you and I like, neither
3:27
Speaker 1: of us like pointed to him at the end of
3:29
Speaker 1: the season and said, there's the issue. But I don't
3:32
Speaker 1: think anybody was like this guy is one of the
3:35
Speaker 1: top five.
3:36
Speaker 2: Managers in the game.
3:37
Speaker 1: I think the industry consensus that I got from scouts
3:42
Speaker 1: and executives around the league was was, you know, there
3:46
Speaker 1: are a few difference makers in the positive, there are
3:49
Speaker 1: a few difference makers in the negative, and a ton
3:52
Speaker 1: of guys that you just say, Okay, they're not hurting
3:56
Speaker 1: the team, they're not impacting the team significantly in a
3:58
Speaker 1: positive way.
3:59
Speaker 2: And Ross kind of fell in that category.
4:02
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean he couldn't go up or down, right,
4:05
Speaker 1: Like this happens with managers all the time.
4:08
Speaker 2: They get better.
4:09
Speaker 1: Terry Francona wasn't looked at in that way in his
4:12
Speaker 1: first go around, and he changed as a manager and grew.
4:17
Speaker 1: I always liked that about Ross. He was you and
4:20
Speaker 1: I have had plenty of conversations with him. He was
4:23
Speaker 1: open minded to making changes. I would even like, even
4:26
Speaker 1: when we talked off the record, I'd bring up like,
4:28
Speaker 1: this is what I think, you know, this is why
4:31
Speaker 1: I think I would slightly tweak this, or this is
4:34
Speaker 1: how I see this, and he'd often say like, oh,
4:37
Speaker 1: I see that point of view, this is why I'm
4:39
Speaker 1: doing it this way. And it was never like no,
4:41
Speaker 1: it's only my way or the highway. It was like
4:43
Speaker 1: he was open minded to these things. But he had
4:45
Speaker 1: reasons for why he was doing things. I think he's
4:49
Speaker 1: going to end up getting another managerial job at some point,
4:52
Speaker 1: Like he's well respected as a as a baseball guy
4:56
Speaker 1: in the industry. I don't know if he was like
4:59
Speaker 1: this hot manager, you know, candidate when the Cubs hired him.
5:03
Speaker 1: But you know that they they obviously respect him and
5:07
Speaker 1: had and had high expectations for his future as a manager.
5:12
Speaker 1: I just don't think it it, uh. I think this
5:14
Speaker 1: was more about opportunity than anything else. Really. You know,
5:20
Speaker 1: how often do you get a chance to get one
5:22
Speaker 1: of the best managers in the game, And that's how
5:24
Speaker 1: they viewed Craig Council. All right, Patrick, here's one for
5:30
Speaker 1: you from Jacob Zanella. This team isn't really in a
5:34
Speaker 1: great spot to sell. Do they buy for the future
5:37
Speaker 1: or just stay put? Is there any worry that Jed
5:41
Speaker 1: likes his prospects too much and won't trade them for
5:44
Speaker 1: major league talent?
5:47
Speaker 4: I mean Jed traded Anthony Rizzo, you know, so.
5:51
Speaker 3: I don't think there's a whole lot of attachment to
5:54
Speaker 3: any one player. I think there's an obsession with winning
5:59
Speaker 3: the the deal and extracting that surface surplus value. But yeah,
6:08
Speaker 3: they're they're kind of stuck here, and I do think
6:13
Speaker 3: these questions are going to get more frequent, They're going
6:16
Speaker 3: to get louder of like if they're still like seven
6:23
Speaker 3: under in a couple of weeks, and if you look
6:25
Speaker 3: at the schedule, as we discussed earlier, it gets a
6:28
Speaker 3: lot harder fast.
6:33
Speaker 4: We also know that Jed.
6:35
Speaker 3: Always wants to pick a lane and be active during
6:39
Speaker 3: these cycles, and so it's certainly getting a lot harder
6:44
Speaker 3: to see like, oh, well, these are our x number
6:49
Speaker 3: of best prospects, our best bets. They were probably already
6:52
Speaker 3: off the table. They're certainly off the table now, and
6:55
Speaker 3: then it becomes a lot harder to like convince ownership
7:02
Speaker 3: to put more money into it into this. I mean,
7:05
Speaker 3: that's just kind of the reality of the situation. I
7:08
Speaker 3: know there was a couple other questions about, you know
7:12
Speaker 3: what about a trade of someone like Nicol Horner or
7:17
Speaker 3: Justin Steele. I think that's certainly an interesting idea. I
7:24
Speaker 3: don't think we've seen this front office to be that
7:27
Speaker 3: sort of outside the box. I also think as soon
7:33
Speaker 3: as you do that, you'd probably wind up having to
7:38
Speaker 3: look for that exact same guy.
7:40
Speaker 4: I mean, Nico's hand. I don't know who wants to
7:46
Speaker 4: kind of acquire him at this point. He's also a
7:48
Speaker 4: great clubhouse influence.
7:51
Speaker 3: He's a type of guy you want to kind of
7:54
Speaker 3: build around and send example for all these other guys
7:57
Speaker 3: coming up. And I mean, you know, Justin Steele, sure,
8:01
Speaker 3: but like who's going to pitch Opening Day next year?
8:04
Speaker 4: And you know, I still think like.
8:08
Speaker 3: You would have to be blown away with like major
8:12
Speaker 3: league ready pieces, and teams just don't typically give that up.
8:17
Speaker 3: Like I don't look at this Cub's organization and they like,
8:19
Speaker 3: oh man, they really need more like interesting guys in
8:21
Speaker 3: a ball Seriously. Yeah, this I'm curious to get your
8:28
Speaker 3: take on this, says is from Tyler Dershel. H Is
8:34
Speaker 3: it fair to say this franchise is still slow when
8:37
Speaker 3: it comes to adjustments things like major league roster moves,
8:41
Speaker 3: batting order changes, call ups, et cetera. There just seems
8:45
Speaker 3: to be a lot of weight and see with everything,
8:48
Speaker 3: well said.
8:49
Speaker 1: Tyler, Yeah, it's this. Are they too slow to react
8:56
Speaker 1: to things? I mean, I I appreciate in baseball patients right,
9:01
Speaker 1: Like I've said this before on the podcast, the fans
9:03
Speaker 1: are always the first to want to make a change,
9:06
Speaker 1: whether it's getting Kyle Hendricks out of the rotation, changing
9:12
Speaker 1: the lineup order, benching this guy, trading that guy. So like,
9:17
Speaker 1: you can't be as reactive as some fans want it
9:22
Speaker 1: to be. It just it's not always the smart move.
9:26
Speaker 1: Are they Are they adjusting these specific things quick enough?
9:30
Speaker 2: I listen.
9:31
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's like shifting
9:36
Speaker 1: the lineup and things like that. I don't think that's
9:39
Speaker 1: what the problem is. I really think there's a lack
9:42
Speaker 1: of aggressiveness and willingness to really go and get like
9:47
Speaker 1: some of the the best players available, you know, whether
9:52
Speaker 1: it's in free agency, whether it's being more aggressive with
9:56
Speaker 1: trading prospects.
9:58
Speaker 2: I mean, you just answered the question about trading prospects.
10:02
Speaker 1: Jed has done that, and to be fair, like he
10:04
Speaker 1: was pretty aggressive moving Dj Hurs for Jamer Candelario last summer.
10:11
Speaker 1: You know that was a pretty aggressive move all things considered. Yeah,
10:15
Speaker 1: I mean, Ross, I think some of the injury stuff.
10:18
Speaker 2: Really ticks off fans.
10:20
Speaker 1: I think pull ups are always something that fans want
10:23
Speaker 1: to see when a team is struggling.
10:26
Speaker 2: I would like to see some aggressiveness right now with
10:29
Speaker 2: the bullpen.
10:30
Speaker 1: Although the bullpen was fine on Wednesday, right that the
10:35
Speaker 1: bullpen wasn't the issue.
10:36
Speaker 2: It continues to be the offense. I don't know.
10:39
Speaker 1: Do they need to be more aggressive when it comes
10:42
Speaker 1: to trying different players?
10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah?
10:46
Speaker 1: Maybe Listen, our buddy Jesse Rogers is all about Alexander Canario.
10:51
Speaker 1: He and I debate about it all the time. My
10:53
Speaker 1: point is I just don't think that changes much. Maybe
10:57
Speaker 1: it's worth trying, though that doesn't mean it's not worth trying.
11:00
Speaker 1: Do you need to be more aggressive with guys that
11:01
Speaker 1: aren't on the forty man? I think that's an interesting question.
11:05
Speaker 1: Is it worth pushing someone like Owen Casey? Is it
11:08
Speaker 1: worth like, okay, call up Matt shot a Triple A now, okay,
11:11
Speaker 1: get him a month in Triple A.
11:13
Speaker 2: If he does well, just bring him up?
11:15
Speaker 4: Is that?
11:17
Speaker 2: I think that can go two way, two different ways. Right.
11:20
Speaker 1: The guy can instantly hit, but it can also like
11:24
Speaker 1: screw up their development. Maybe they instantly hit like Kyle Schwarber,
11:28
Speaker 1: But you could make the argument that Kyle Schwarber was
11:30
Speaker 1: rushed too. He had so much more development that needed
11:34
Speaker 1: and he got a lot of it in the big leagues.
11:35
Speaker 1: Now he's a good ballplayer, and we know what he is, right,
11:39
Speaker 1: but it took a while to get there, so you
11:42
Speaker 1: can kind of stump the development and make it take
11:46
Speaker 1: make it end up being a longer process, even if
11:48
Speaker 1: you get immediate impact.
11:50
Speaker 2: I mean, Kyle Schwarber helped them win a World Series
11:52
Speaker 2: right on one leg.
11:53
Speaker 1: Essentially, he was insanely impactful when he came up in
11:57
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. So maybe it all ends up being worth it.
12:00
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm the one overthinking. Maybe they're the ones
12:03
Speaker 1: overthinking these things, right, uh, but but I do think
12:07
Speaker 1: they I don't think this is a rare thing. Like
12:11
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like the Orioles have so many
12:14
Speaker 1: prospects that they waited until they dominated every level before
12:19
Speaker 1: they came up. I mean, and Jackson Holiday came up,
12:21
Speaker 1: and I believe he's still back down, right, he hasn't
12:24
Speaker 1: been called back up. So like they're different, they're different.
12:30
Speaker 1: There are different ways to go about it. I'd have
12:32
Speaker 1: to go look and see who's super aggressive. I don't
12:36
Speaker 1: think the Cubs are any lesser more aggressive.
12:39
Speaker 4: Than Angels are pretty aggressive, right.
12:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't think you want to model the
12:43
Speaker 1: Angels batting order changes and things like that. Those are
12:49
Speaker 1: I think most progressive front offices and managers don't think
12:52
Speaker 1: those are that significant of a deal.
12:55
Speaker 2: Like and and he has shifted things around.
12:57
Speaker 1: We've had all sorts of different we've seen all sorts
12:59
Speaker 1: of different lineups this year because he's just trying to
13:02
Speaker 1: shake things up. And he even admitted he's like, I
13:04
Speaker 1: don't think it's that big of a deal, but I
13:05
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to make something happen, like when
13:07
Speaker 1: we add morel leading off and you know, putting different
13:10
Speaker 1: guys in the top three spots.
13:12
Speaker 2: He's trying to shake it up. It's I think a
13:14
Speaker 2: lot of.
13:15
Speaker 1: This is just like we're gonna have a few more
13:17
Speaker 1: questions where my answer is, let's just blame the players,
13:20
Speaker 1: stop putting the blame on other people. And if you want,
13:23
Speaker 1: you can blame Jed on that too, right, Like, that's
13:26
Speaker 1: that's part of it. I don't think I don't think
13:29
Speaker 1: you you absolve Jed for any of this because he
13:36
Speaker 1: is the one that put the put the put this
13:40
Speaker 1: team together. All right, Patrick, let's uh, let's go with
13:45
Speaker 1: or you know what, like if you do, do you
13:47
Speaker 1: have one right here?
13:49
Speaker 3: Just to yeah, jump out of order because it's a
13:51
Speaker 3: perfect segue after you say.
13:55
Speaker 4: It's time to blame the players.
13:56
Speaker 3: I got Vicky underscore one. I think it's Vicus sing
14:01
Speaker 3: I hope I'm pronouncing that's right?
14:03
Speaker 4: That right.
14:05
Speaker 3: Although it is easy to blame the hitting coach given
14:09
Speaker 3: the Wolfl offense for this team for this long, is
14:13
Speaker 3: he on the hot seat?
14:16
Speaker 4: Geez? You could say, I guess dustn't. Kelly is the
14:20
Speaker 4: primary hitting coach.
14:21
Speaker 3: But there's a group, a small army of other assistants
14:26
Speaker 3: and kind of analysts, and a front office going there
14:30
Speaker 3: as well.
14:30
Speaker 4: How do you look at the hitting group at this moment?
14:34
Speaker 2: Like, I just think it's such a cop out.
14:37
Speaker 1: And if if Jed were to choose to go this route,
14:40
Speaker 1: I think my route would be to rip Jed like,
14:45
Speaker 1: I think that would be an unacceptable answer to these
14:48
Speaker 1: this team's issues. Just one quick thing I want to
14:52
Speaker 1: I want to point out last year, Cleveland was twenty
14:56
Speaker 1: seventh in run scores, run runs scored. Okay, fire Chris Blaka, right,
15:01
Speaker 1: fire him, like what is he doing? He's he's terrible.
15:04
Speaker 1: He must be awful at his job. That team can't
15:07
Speaker 1: score runs. Now they are fifth in runs scored this
15:12
Speaker 1: year so promote Chris of Alaka greatest hitting coach ever?
15:16
Speaker 1: Right for yeah, Like it's just like last year Dustin
15:21
Speaker 1: Kelly was the answer. Greg Brown must have been the
15:23
Speaker 1: problem in twenty twenty two, Right, the cub scored the
15:26
Speaker 1: six most runs, and.
15:29
Speaker 2: Now and now.
15:30
Speaker 1: Dustin Kelly is the problem. I know that's not what
15:33
Speaker 1: he was saying, because was saying I don't I don't
15:38
Speaker 1: have the exact question in front of me, but it
15:39
Speaker 1: sounded like he was.
15:40
Speaker 2: He was just like asking when when does he get
15:43
Speaker 2: on there?
15:43
Speaker 4: It wasn't, It wasn't He just used the word blame.
15:46
Speaker 3: It was more kind of presenting the idea against right,
15:49
Speaker 3: you know, this is professional sports, is kind.
15:51
Speaker 1: Of yeah, I listen, you can blame the coaches. Maybe
15:55
Speaker 1: they're not maybe they're not doing their job. But Dustin
15:58
Speaker 1: Kelly was praised last year. Have like there was a
16:01
Speaker 1: lot of praise put his way after they put together
16:04
Speaker 1: a really strong offensive campaign.
16:07
Speaker 2: I just don't think it's his his issue, like I
16:10
Speaker 2: do not.
16:10
Speaker 1: I think this is roster construction, lack of a superstar,
16:15
Speaker 1: and some underperformance and just some abysmal performance with runners
16:20
Speaker 1: in scoring position. And I don't think he's preaching anything
16:23
Speaker 1: that would make me say, like, you can't.
16:26
Speaker 2: Preach that with runners in scoring position.
16:27
Speaker 1: You can't tell them to do these things with you know,
16:30
Speaker 1: they're not doing anything. They're not being taught anything wrong.
16:34
Speaker 1: They're being prepared in a proper manner. Because it worked
16:38
Speaker 1: last year and it was praise last year, and now
16:41
Speaker 1: it's not working. And I think it's on the players.
16:44
Speaker 1: I just think you have to put the blame on
16:46
Speaker 1: the players. Blaming the coaches is a scapegoat. The Cubs
16:51
Speaker 1: have done it far too often. How many hitting coaches
16:53
Speaker 1: have recovered in our time? Too many really good guys
16:59
Speaker 1: in the group, some of them, I mean, go back. Uh,
17:02
Speaker 1: isn't they rehired one of them?
17:05
Speaker 2: Yeah?
17:05
Speaker 1: And and where's where's James Rawson? Who was like there
17:08
Speaker 1: when I first started Yankees hitting coach that monster offense
17:14
Speaker 1: And he was he was one of the first scapegoats
17:17
Speaker 1: of the I believe of the THEO.
17:18
Speaker 2: Jed era correct or was that. Uh he was, he was.
17:22
Speaker 3: I think he's probably not the best scapegoat example, but
17:26
Speaker 3: he was definitely part of the the churn there.
17:28
Speaker 4: And I think that's the point too. I was just
17:31
Speaker 4: reading about him the other day.
17:35
Speaker 3: You know, you get to be a good hitting coach
17:38
Speaker 3: you have great hitters, Like if he brought Juan Soto
17:41
Speaker 3: into this lineup, I'm sure it would be saying how
17:43
Speaker 3: great Dustin Kelly is, which is what people were saying
17:47
Speaker 3: last year. To your point of that offense really unperformed
17:50
Speaker 3: expectations and even even April it looked like, okay, this
17:55
Speaker 3: is you know, this could be it.
17:57
Speaker 4: They were super high on it in spring training.
17:59
Speaker 2: Just have and worked.
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19:01
Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, I'm going to ask you a couple
19:03
Speaker 1: bullpen related questions.
19:05
Speaker 2: And there's a couple here.
19:06
Speaker 1: There's Peter Berg, there's someone else had a question about, Uh,
19:11
Speaker 1: I lost it, but it's so it's why do why
19:14
Speaker 1: does it seem the Cubs have trouble developing reliable bullpen arms?
19:17
Speaker 1: Someone else asked a question of essentially saying like, uh,
19:22
Speaker 1: what's the difference between developing a starting pitcher and a
19:25
Speaker 1: relief pitcher at the major league level? Because I think
19:27
Speaker 1: we've seen that the Cubs now, all of a sudden
19:29
Speaker 1: over the past two years, Okay, we kind of start
19:32
Speaker 1: trusting their their development when it comes to starting pitching.
19:35
Speaker 1: Why is it we're not seeing relief pitching being developed here?
19:41
Speaker 1: I think whatever your quote answer is, I think it's
19:44
Speaker 1: a complicated.
19:44
Speaker 2: One is the reality right.
19:46
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think in terms of kind of developing starters,
19:51
Speaker 3: are guys caught in between. I think we've seen a
19:53
Speaker 3: little bit of this with Hayden was was an esky
19:57
Speaker 3: who has great stuff and it's had a great moments.
20:00
Speaker 3: He looks the part, but has been caught in between
20:03
Speaker 3: a little bit. I mean, at the same time, Ben
20:06
Speaker 3: Brown has certainly looked great when he's been healthy. I
20:11
Speaker 3: do think if you zoom out, it's kind of part
20:14
Speaker 3: of a broader thing that I think Jed has been
20:17
Speaker 3: weighing or wrestling with of like how much runway are
20:21
Speaker 3: these guys going to get? Like Justin Steele had a
20:24
Speaker 3: lot of time to just kind of like settle in.
20:27
Speaker 3: I want to say it was after the twenty twenty
20:29
Speaker 3: one trade deadline of like, okay, here's like two months,
20:33
Speaker 3: and then you know, twenty twenty two was this, you know,
20:38
Speaker 3: obvious rebuild year to write off and you know the Cubs.
20:43
Speaker 4: Are not in that position.
20:45
Speaker 3: Even though they're not, you know, killing it right now,
20:48
Speaker 3: there were expectations to make the playoffs this year, and
20:51
Speaker 3: so it's harder to just kind of give.
20:54
Speaker 4: Guys a similar runway.
20:58
Speaker 3: I think, you know, you have a great feel for
21:01
Speaker 3: this Cub's pitching infrastructure. I think if we had done
21:04
Speaker 3: this mailbag at a different moment, you know, we'd be saying,
21:10
Speaker 3: you know, Julian Meriweather's great guy that they found off waivers,
21:14
Speaker 3: and look at Mark Leder Junior, and oh yeah, things
21:18
Speaker 3: click with Albert Hel's ale. Obviously, all three of those
21:22
Speaker 3: guys are injured, and I think that's a huge part
21:24
Speaker 3: of this that you can never feel like you have enough.
21:31
Speaker 3: And I do think if the offense was just producing
21:35
Speaker 3: a little bit more, we might be saying, like, how
21:39
Speaker 3: good this bullpen has been under the circumstances.
21:42
Speaker 4: I mean even taking Wednesday's game.
21:45
Speaker 3: You know, you do a bullpen day, bullpen night, and
21:51
Speaker 3: you keep the Giants off the board for six of
21:54
Speaker 3: the eight innings, give up a couple home runs. It's like,
21:58
Speaker 3: if you're the team, you know just that can pop
22:01
Speaker 3: a three run homer or put a little more pressure.
22:03
Speaker 4: On the other team, like it would look different. And
22:07
Speaker 4: there are guys like Tyson Miller. I mean we did
22:10
Speaker 4: not when that deal went down.
22:13
Speaker 3: We were like, oh, guy got a by how many
22:16
Speaker 3: teams in the last you know, year plus or whatever,
22:19
Speaker 3: And he looked really really good. And I also think too,
22:25
Speaker 3: like the defense has looked better, but it's not as
22:30
Speaker 3: good as they thought it would be. And that moment
22:33
Speaker 3: the other night when Seya Suzuki kind of jumps in
22:36
Speaker 3: the air, thinking the walls there, and the ball just
22:38
Speaker 3: flies by him and bounces around like that stuff matters. Otherwise,
22:44
Speaker 3: like Steel would have gone a little longer. That's kind
22:47
Speaker 3: of how they had scripted it. And then all of
22:49
Speaker 3: a sudden, you've got a double and it's a pressure,
22:52
Speaker 3: high leveraged situation, and you bring in Tyson earlier than
22:56
Speaker 3: you would have won it. And if they play a
22:59
Speaker 3: cleaner game, maybe Steele does go a little bit deeper,
23:04
Speaker 3: and maybe it's like Tyson with a clean inning in
23:08
Speaker 3: the ninth instead of kind of going a Colton Brewer
23:12
Speaker 3: and Drew Smiley and having the game a game you
23:14
Speaker 3: had to win, blow up on.
23:15
Speaker 1: You, all right, Patrick, I'm gonna I'm gonna answer a
23:19
Speaker 1: question here and we can wrap this up. But this
23:23
Speaker 1: is I think this is an interesting question, uh from Harbes.
23:27
Speaker 1: I vaguely remember there being a hit lab, but it's
23:30
Speaker 1: not discussed, like the pitch lab. Is that still a thing?
23:32
Speaker 1: How do you how do they want to address the
23:34
Speaker 1: struggles that Triple A players are having at the big
23:37
Speaker 1: league level. The lack of impact bats is concerning and
23:40
Speaker 1: stats from I who don't translate. Okay, so Triple A
23:43
Speaker 1: stats in general are not translating offensively. Uh, it's not
23:48
Speaker 1: a Cubs thing. It's a baseball thing. There's a lot
23:50
Speaker 1: of talk about the jump from Triple A to the
23:53
Speaker 1: big leagues. Is feels like as wide of a gap
23:55
Speaker 1: as it's ever been. You know, fewer, there's fewer minor
24:00
Speaker 1: league affiliates, you don't have the lower levels. You kind
24:02
Speaker 1: of have to rush move prospects, maybe a little faster
24:05
Speaker 1: than you would have in the past.
24:07
Speaker 2: That's one reason. Is there a hit lab? Yeah? So
24:10
Speaker 2: is there a Why do people talk about the pitch
24:13
Speaker 2: lab as more? I don't know.
24:15
Speaker 1: I think it became kind of a joke type thing
24:17
Speaker 1: when they were developing pitching and people talk about it more.
24:20
Speaker 2: It's not about these labs.
24:22
Speaker 1: It's about there's information gathered in there, and there's things
24:26
Speaker 1: you can work on. Very specifically. It really is about
24:28
Speaker 1: the coaching and how you interpret that that stuff and
24:31
Speaker 1: how you execute and and like you know, implement these
24:36
Speaker 1: ideas that are put in place. There are certainly things
24:38
Speaker 1: that I think are being tweaked. I do believe they have.
24:43
Speaker 1: So they believe in their hitting infrastructure, why haven't they
24:46
Speaker 1: developed a star? I mean that that's hard to answer
24:50
Speaker 1: that there really is, Like have the Orioles figured something
24:53
Speaker 1: out with hitting? I had a talk like two or
24:57
Speaker 1: three years ago with a hitting code about the idea
25:02
Speaker 1: of a hitting you know, like coordinator minor league guy,
25:06
Speaker 1: about the idea of like where's the next step? But
25:09
Speaker 1: like where where are things in player development? We took
25:11
Speaker 1: these huge leap leaps in player development over the past decade. Right,
25:15
Speaker 1: majority of it has been in pitching, right, that's just
25:19
Speaker 1: like it's easier to measure things. They figured out a
25:22
Speaker 1: lot of things when it comes to pitching development. So
25:26
Speaker 1: that's further ahead as far as like what we know
25:29
Speaker 1: about pitching development. The hitting development stuff was the next
25:32
Speaker 1: frontier that that coach really believed that was next and
25:36
Speaker 1: that they were starting to tap into some things in
25:39
Speaker 1: the game. Uh, maybe the Orioles were ahead, right. Gunnar
25:43
Speaker 1: Henderson was like a second round pick and he's what
25:46
Speaker 1: now fighting for an MVP on one of the best
25:49
Speaker 1: teams in baseball.
25:50
Speaker 2: Right, Like these are.
25:53
Speaker 1: These are things that are hard to until it becomes public.
25:57
Speaker 1: Really it's hard to talk about because they don't they're
26:00
Speaker 1: they're really secretive about this stuff until more teams have it,
26:04
Speaker 1: and then it kind of like gets leaked out and
26:06
Speaker 1: then then it's like, Okay, we don't need to be
26:07
Speaker 1: as secretive.
26:09
Speaker 2: But there there.
26:09
Speaker 1: Certainly is uh, there are, there is work being done.
26:14
Speaker 1: I did a piece where I went to Justin Stone's
26:17
Speaker 1: facility and I went through the stuff that they go through,
26:21
Speaker 1: like a modified version of it. It was it was
26:23
Speaker 1: fun to do and it was fun to write. They
26:27
Speaker 1: certainly do some crazy things. There are aspects of the
26:30
Speaker 1: game that are very different than there was ten fifteen
26:33
Speaker 1: years ago. As far as player development goes. Yeah, they
26:37
Speaker 1: need to develop, like we don't. Why haven't they developed
26:39
Speaker 1: a star? Well, they haven't. None of these guys have
26:43
Speaker 1: come up yet. I don't think Owen Case he's going
26:46
Speaker 1: to be an MVP candidate. I've been wrong before. Matt Shaw,
26:51
Speaker 1: I could see that, I could see him developing into
26:54
Speaker 1: a star.
26:54
Speaker 2: He's not there yet. He's only a double A, so
26:56
Speaker 2: we got to be patient on that. I don't know.
26:59
Speaker 1: I can't give you an answer why they haven't outside
27:02
Speaker 1: of I'm not sure if they have star talent, so
27:05
Speaker 1: they can't just make a star, like that's not really
27:10
Speaker 1: how it works, Like they need to get that star
27:13
Speaker 1: in the system, and a lot of times you have
27:15
Speaker 1: to make sure you develop, like yeah, maybe, like hey,
27:17
Speaker 1: if Matt Shaw becomes a star, do they get credit
27:20
Speaker 1: for that because he was drafted thirteen? If you get
27:23
Speaker 1: like an MVP candidate that draft at thirteen, do you
27:25
Speaker 1: get credit for that or do the industry screw up
27:27
Speaker 1: any drop too far.
27:29
Speaker 2: Or wherever he was drafted.
27:31
Speaker 1: I may be wrong on that number, but whatever, my
27:33
Speaker 1: point is, I don't think any of these guys are
27:36
Speaker 1: projected to be stars, so like to exceed those expectations,
27:41
Speaker 1: then you have like this elite development, right.
27:44
Speaker 2: I think the Cubs have good development. I think they're hoping.
27:47
Speaker 1: When I asked around in baseball, I never got them
27:51
Speaker 1: as an answer of who's best at player development?
27:54
Speaker 2: You know.
27:55
Speaker 1: I think the Cubs are hoping that they end up
27:57
Speaker 1: in that answer someday soon. They're not there yet. And
28:01
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a specific problem with them
28:05
Speaker 1: as much as it's just like the reality of the situation.
28:08
Speaker 1: I think player development is significantly better than it was
28:12
Speaker 1: for this team that five years ago. It's not producing
28:17
Speaker 1: the results that you want. As far as star talent
28:21
Speaker 1: with offensive players. I don't think that has as much
28:25
Speaker 1: to do with the player development as it does to
28:27
Speaker 1: do with the players. And that's not a knock on
28:30
Speaker 1: the players, because I do believe they have a lot
28:31
Speaker 1: of good players. Maybe Moises bi Asteros maybe that. I mean,
28:34
Speaker 1: that is a pretty good situation there. I mean, you
28:37
Speaker 1: got to give player development some credit there. Twenty year
28:40
Speaker 1: old already hitting at Triple A. So it's not all bad.
28:44
Speaker 1: It's and I get the question about not translating a
28:47
Speaker 1: Triple A.
28:49
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, thing right.
28:51
Speaker 2: We tried to temper Matt Murvis here. We did.
28:54
Speaker 1: We tried to say, like, I guys, I don't think
28:56
Speaker 1: he's the superstar you think he is. So there's stuff
29:00
Speaker 1: like that where it's just like, you know, I'm not
29:03
Speaker 1: sure who this guy is, but you can wonder like
29:08
Speaker 1: why isn't Pca hitting like he was in Triple A? Well,
29:10
Speaker 1: he had holes and we know about it, and I
29:12
Speaker 1: think this will be valuable, like we talked about last podcast.
29:15
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Northside territory. I'm Sahadiv Sharma.
29:20
Speaker 1: That's Patrick Mooney. Make sure to read our work at
29:23
Speaker 1: the Athletic. Make sure to subscribe, rate and review all
29:25
Speaker 1: that good stuff that you do for this podcast. We'll
29:28
Speaker 1: be back at you next week after a big Brewer series.
29:33
Speaker 1: We'll see if the Cubs can make it interesting or
29:36
Speaker 1: if they continue to flounder and then fall further below
29:38
Speaker 1: five hundred. Obviously it's time to turn things around. Otherwise,
29:44
Speaker 1: if you don't want to see what happened last summer
29:47
Speaker 1: where they have to climb back from ten games under,
29:49
Speaker 1: they were able to do so, but they couldn't finish.
29:51
Speaker 2: The job obviously gassed.
29:53
Speaker 1: In September, Jed Hoyer specifically said he wants to avoid
29:56
Speaker 1: that scenios scenario. So clearly it's past well past time
30:02
Speaker 1: that the Cubs get going here.
30:03
Speaker 2: Thanks again for listening. Take care,