Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 84. Brendan Dunne, Deputy Editor at Complex & Co-Host 'Full Size Run'

Transcript

84. Brendan Dunne, Deputy Editor at Complex & Co-Host 'Full Size Run' · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey Handlers, Emily a body here with episode eighty four
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: of Hurdle, a podcast that talks to everyone from entrepreneurs
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to top CEOs and athletes about how they've gotten through
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: tough times hurdles of sorts by leaning in to wellness. Today,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I am really amped to bring you my conversation with
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a good friend of mine. His name is Brendan Dunn.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He is a deputy editor at Complex. Before we get
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to that, a quick shout out to my sponsor.
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• 1:11
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• 1:50
  Speaker 1: All right, mister Brendan done, And I'm gonna be honest here.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I selfishly really just wanted to record this episode with
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Brendan because I love spending time with him. We met
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: about five five years ago, was on a group run
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that was organized by Nike, and he really is just
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: one of the kindest guys I know and someone that
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I'm honored to call a good friend. In today's episode,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: he offers up a lot of insight into the hard
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: work it took him to get to where he is
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: today in his career, as well as the dedication it
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: took for him to get to where he is as
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a runner. We talk about how cool that is, right,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: just the idea that we can call ourselves runners. Brendan
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: in this episode recaps his first marathon, which was Chicago
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: this year, and just how the sport of running has
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: changed him for the better and that he has finally
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: learned the importance and the value of completely dedicating himself
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to any given goal or a task, and how special
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: it is to see something all the way through.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Oh and one other note.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: At one point, I do reference that I thought that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: my splits for Chicago or seven forty six miles. Disclaimer,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately my time was like a seven fifty
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: seven overall average pace.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: So not trying to get the facts wrong here.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Y'all know the drill when it comes to interacting with
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: me at Hurdle Podcast at Emilia Body, I am absolutely
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: loving that as an understatement the videos of you guys
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: lasen up using the hashtag the lace up. It's fun
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to see us all inspiring one another to get out
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: and get active. And I also want to give a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: shout out to my good friend Kenny Santucci. He's a
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: past guest on the pod and he is also organizing
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: a really amazing day putting together at New York City's
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: first charitable fitness and wellness experiences called Strong New York.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: At Strong, you can get access to the industries, top trainers, doctors, nutritionists,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: mental health professionals, wellness experts, all of the people from
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: all around the country and it's one day of workouts, workshops, panels, seminars,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: all the goodness. It's Sunday, December fifteenth, twenty nineteen. I'm
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: going to try to get there myself, and I would
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: love for you guys to check it out.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: If you're in the New York City area.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: You can just head on over to Strong New York
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen dot event bright dot com. Again, that's Strong
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: New York twenty nineteen dot event bright dot com to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: grab your ticket today. Huge thanks to my friends at
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: MOSS for the studio space for this episode. You can
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: check them out in the show notes. If you have
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: a hurdle moment of your own to share, you just
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: want to say hi, you can always reach me over
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: on email. It's Emily at hurdle dot us. And a happy,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. You know how grateful
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I am to have you guys in my little corner
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: of the interwebs. I hope that the holiday brings you
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: some quality time with the people you love, maybe a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: turkey trot and of course some good ease. And with that,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: let's get to hurdling.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Today. I'm sitting down with Brendan Dunn.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: He's the deputy editor at Complex dot com and co
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: host of Full Size Run show.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: That's right, that's me, what's up? How are you? Emily?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: You know, this might be the first time I've sat
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: down with someone that I feel like has a better
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: voice for this than me.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Really, that's that's incredibly flattering. That's incredibly flattering. I've been
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: exercising this rich baritone since about the age of thirteen
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: and finally making some money off of this.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So full disclosure, I've known Brendan for some time now.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: How many years do you think valid question? Maybe four
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: years at least.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been a fitness journalist probably for seven years, okay,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: six years.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I've been sneaker after that for about the same time,
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: but our past didn't cross immediately. But yeah, I have
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: maybe four or five years.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I stuck of time. Yes, we've done a
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: little bit of traveling together.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, we've been to different corners of the world. Have
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: we been out of the country out of the country
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: together on any press trips?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I don't believe. So.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I think all of my press trips that have taken
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: me international have been female focus.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Got you, So those are important, They are important. Those
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: are important.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Basically, what I'm getting at is, ideally you guys will
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: feel the repertoire.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: That we have here.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling it right now.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, uh, Brandon, where are you from?
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: This is a difficult question because you know, it's kind
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: of about like where I identify with more. But I'm
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: going to give you the long answer since we have time.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: I'm originally from Oregon. I was born in Astoria, Oregon.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: I lived there for the first seven or eight years
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: of my life. Then I moved with my mother to Idaho,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: and so I kind of grew up in Idaho, lived
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: there from you know, age eight to eighteen or something
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: like that, and then moved back to Oregon for college,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: so very much split my time between the two places,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: you know, going from one parent to another parent and
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: things like that. So I am from Oregon and also
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: from Idaho.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: From both yeah, sultaneously.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: If someone asked me at a party, I'll just say
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Oregon to get that's the short answer, And that's the
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: place I maybe feel more connected to.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to start answering questions as though
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I'm only answering them at a party.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's you know, if you want to save time.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's definitely an efficient way to move through life.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Growing up. Were tell me about life growing up?
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Oh? Which part? The whole? The whole thing, because we
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: do have time, but we don't have that much time.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: No, Well, talk to me about like growing up. So
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: you grew up with your mom?
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yep. I grew up with my mother and
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: a few you know, I have four siblings. I have
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: three brothers and one sister. And it was my younger
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: brother and my older brother living with my mother in Idaho.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: And then my mother remarried and we grew up there
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: with my stepfather, and then one of my brothers moved
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: back to Oregon. It's it's a long, very complicated story.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: But one of my brothers moved back to Oregon to
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: live with my father and we would go be with
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: him in the summers and things like that. But you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: the house was always very busy because also my my sister,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: my older sister lived in Idaho at the time, and
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: she was starting a family of her own. So my
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: nieces and nephews were always around and in the house
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: and lived with us at different points, So it was
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: always a busy household.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Busy Yeah, kind of like what is like for you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: these days?
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, frantic that that's very much a through line. Yeah,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: For whatever reason, I keep myself very active, even though
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I necessarily like that or prefer that.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: It just seems like what I need to do or
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: what I am how I am faded to behave.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I feel that.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about what you do now so we
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: can kind of throughline that as we can end our discussion.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So what do you do at Complex?
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: So I'm a deputy editor at Complex right now. I
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: work on the Snapchat Discover platform that we have there,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: which is a daily editorial program serving up a variety
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: of hip hop news to are audience. Of millions. So
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: I run a team of about seven people and kind
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: of help us focus in on which stories we want
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: to tell, and help write a lot of the copy
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: for the channel and edit some of it and then
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: help assign that to designers who can turn these things
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: into basically little MP four videos that people on the
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: app can see. And that takes up a lot of
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: my time there. That's not the most glamorous part of
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: my job there. But the other thing that takes up
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: my time is a gig co hosting Full Size Run,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: which is a weekly sneaker talk show we do and
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: it's been in different forms throughout the various years, but
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: right now we're on YouTube. It's myself and two other
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: co hosts, Matt Welty, a guy who I've worked with
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: a complex since I've been there for five years now,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: and then Trinidad James, the rapper who's also a friend.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: And yeah, we do that once a week and it's
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: a load of fun.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Did you ever think that you would be the kind
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of guy that was on a regular show like that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: No, it happened very gradually too, so it wasn't It
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: wasn't like an overnight thing. You know, these things never are.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: But it wasn't something I was necessarily vying for or
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: something I thought about a lot, because I came into
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: this just writing, you know, And I came into this
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: too a point where social media wasn't quite so important.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: So so many times the people I looked up to
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: were the people I was adjacent to were just bylines.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: You know. There weren't photos. You know, there was maybe
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: a small photo, and but you didn't really get a
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: sense of this person was trying to market themselves and
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: in the way that people do now with their Twitter
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: and their Instagram. I'm going off on a tangent here,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: but I say all that to say it wasn't an
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: intentive mine from the beginning to be quite so famous
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: as I am now.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: So fain well, I mean, let's just tell the hurdlers
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: what's up. There is someone in the universe that has
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a Brendan Dunn tattoo.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And again I'm glad you laughed. Not because
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: I thought it was particularly funny when I said that
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I'm famous, but because I was saying it facetiously. But
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: also that is true on some level, people do actually
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: follow me to the extent that someone did put my
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: face on their body without without my knowledge or consent.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Where is it? I think it's on their leg. Maybe
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know the photo. I think you've seen the photo.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: It's not totally sure, and I don't want to. I
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: don't want to pry at it too much because I might,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe find some things I don't necessarily want
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: to know. But yeah, yeah, a portrait of me on
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: someone's body. And I also want to caveat this with
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: the person who has the tattoo of me, he also
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: has a lot of tattoos, so he's like a tattoo guy.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: You know. You see these people who are very decorated.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: So it's not like I am the sole tattoo on
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: this person's body. You know, I am among many.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I believe I respect that to each their own.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: YEA, one day, maybe one day, you too will have
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: some sort of tribute to yourself on your body. Yeah, okay,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: So talk to me about your interest in sneakers then,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: because from our previous discussions, I am in the know
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: that you were really on this track.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: You've been really on this path for a little while now.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I kind of got into sneakers as a kid,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: just being on the Internet, having access to different subcultures
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: and realizing that there were people obsessed with very niche things,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: things so far outside of the mainstream, or that there
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: was knowledge to be had around things so underground as footwear,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: you know, as limited edition shoes. Who designed these things,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: how many of them came out, When did they come out,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: where did they come out, Why are they important? What
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: did they signify? So I started learning about those things
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: in the mid two thousands. A lot of people their
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: entry point came through sports or seeing a particular player,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: oftentimes Michael Jordan on TV and being attached to the
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: shoes or gravitating toward the footwear they had. That wasn't
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: my story because I didn't really care about sports in
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: a large way growing up, you know, even geographically, like
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: I grew up again, going back to where I'm quote
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: unquote from, I grew up in Idaho and there were
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: no professional sports teams around, and I didn't you know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I had no particular allegiances when it came to that.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: We didn't have more than one channel on TV, so
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: it sports just wasn't a big part of my life.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: So my entry point, the sneakers thing came less to
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: that and more through just being online. When this stuff
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: really boomed, well maybe not really boomed now is when
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: it's really booming. But when this stuff started to bubble
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: up in like the mid two thousands, two thousand and
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: five around there.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And so with that interest, what did you
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: do with it.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: At the time.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: At the time, I knew I wanted a sneaker collection.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: I knew I wanted I mean, I knew I wanted
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: at least one pair of shoes. But also it was like,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: when in the future can I have many pairs of shoes?
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: You know? Right away, I knew it wasn't enough to
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: have just one because you can't just have the one
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: pair and show up with them every day, you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: you have to you have to have a rotation or
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: a couple different things to choose from. So I knew
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: that I had to build something, and I knew I
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: had to understand why certain things were important or was
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: this actually a cool shoe? You know, just because this
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: was a NIKESB. NIKESB was one of the things I
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: was really into when I first got into it. Yeah,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: this is a NIKESB, but is it the right one?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: And and I don't say that to say, like the
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: right one in terms of just what other people were wearing.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: But is it the premium model or is it the
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: model that artists really cared about, or or is it
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: one that's actually special. So so it was it was
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: learning that and trying to figure out how I could
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: get shoes too, because it wasn't quite so easy back then,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: you know, and I didn't have any money.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: On top of that, and maybe the timeline here.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: This is probably like two thousand and five or six
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: two thousand, I think two thousand and.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Five, you know, just graduating high school.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I graduated high school two thousand and seven, So by
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: the time I graduated high school, I had like a
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: a few like cool pairs of sneakers at that point.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it was just like the last couple of
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: years of high school, like paying attention to those sort
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: of things and trying to scheme around how I could
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: get a cool pair of shoes or get a couple
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: cool pairs of shoes and keep those things clean and
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: also buy some graphic T shirts that I.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Thought were cool and bringing it all together.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like one one thing was
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: never enough.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And so when does the transition happen from just wanting
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to collect cool shoes and own cool shoes and some
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: graphic te's so then transitioning into wow, like I want
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: to talk about this stuff.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't happen until years later, and it wasn't
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: something I thought about till years later. You know, I
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: took a year off after high school and then I
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: was in college, and in college I was very much
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: focused on sneakers and spending absurd amounts of student loan
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: money on sneakers. You know what I mean. You get
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the refund check, like after you pay off your tuition
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: and your your your housing and stuff like that, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: you have just like thousands of dollars and you're like, yeah,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: of course I'm going to spend this on sneakers.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: So most expensive pair of sneakers you've ever purchased.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: So, actually, it's funny the most expensive, don't. I don't
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: pay resell for stuff that often, especially now because I
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the privileged position of knowing people in the industry
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: who can help me out. But the most expensive pair,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: I'll say it's shoes because it's kind of somewhere in
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: between a sneaker and a shoe. But it's this Japanese
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: brand scheme where they make very high end reproductions of
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: classic models. So they'll take like a famous Nike silhouette,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: like the Air Force one, and they'll do it in
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: this raw leather, but strip it of all the brandings
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: so they don't get sued, and they'll charge one thousand
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: dollars for it. So I have one of those shoes
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: that they did of the New Balance thirteen hundred, the
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Hender Scheme version of it, and it's it's it's almost
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: a sneaker and it's got kind of a hard bottom.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: So I don't know if it technically qualifies, but I
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: think I paid. I bought them from Japan, and I
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: think I paid like six hundred and fifty dollars for them.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: That's last thing I expected you to say.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's really on the high Like after that,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: it's really like a lot of like three point fifty,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: you know, two eighty things like that. So more often
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: than that, I am selling those things and a sidebar.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: How do you store.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Them in a yeah, not in a way that they should.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Every every day I go home and I look around
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: my room and I see hundreds and hundreds of pairs
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: of shoes, and I and I think about that very question.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: How you know, what is the solution here? I'm really
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: getting close to the point of storage of a mini
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: storage unit separate from where I live, because it would
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: be so mentally freeing to erase my space of all
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: those extra things. You know, I have, like I said,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: a ton of pairs in my room, and then they
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: naturally accrue at my office as well. So there's probably
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: sixty pairs at my office right now, which sounds like
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: a lot, But when you look at sixty pairs of shoes,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: it doesn't look like a lot. Like it's very easy
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to just stack them up and you lose track. But
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: and then I have maybe eighty pairs on the West
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Coast too, from when I moved out here, and I
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: left a bunch of stuff back there, So it's a
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: it's a transcontinental collection.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, So it's ever growing. They don't store them well.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And the most you've ever played for sneakers is a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: little shy of seven hundred dollars. Yeah, talk to me
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: about when you first start writing about sneakers.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that happened in college. I think it was
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: my junior year of college. At this time, I was
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: so far into it that every day there were a
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: handful of websites I was reading to try and get
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: as much information as I could about again, what was releasing,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: why it's important, what's the history of this thing, Where
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: did these come from? And also spending time on forums
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: like Nike Talk, where a lot of the information was
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: available first, or a lot of the information that websites
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: weren't necessarily covering that was that was in there, and
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: again some of the longer history of collecting and designs
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: and things like that. So one of the websites I
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: was reading at the time was Sneaker News, and again
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: I think this is my junior year, maybe my sophomore year,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure it was my junior year. They
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: had a just a small banner on the site basically
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: saying that they were looking for freelance writers. And I
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: knew at that point that I was capable in terms
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: of writing. My sneaker knowledge wasn't great, you know, I
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: hadn't been into it for that long, and a lot
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: of times the resources around these things are not not
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: as adequate as they should be. So was my sneaker
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: knowledge where it really needed to be at that point. No,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: But I figured I can write, and I figured I
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: can learn, So so I sent them some small samples,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: you know, per the assignment that they'd asked for in
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the banner, and I can't remember how long it was
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I could find in my email, you know, the first
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: response I got from them, But eventually I heard back.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: And the first stuff I was doing for them was
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: actually for this website, Sneaker News. But the guy who
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: founded it and who owns it still you ming, he
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: has a family of websites, And so I was writing
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: for different sites in the network to kind I kind
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: of had the training wheels on, you know what I mean.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: So I would write for those sites and have some
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: people oversee me and turn in quick blog posts and
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: things like that, and then I kind of eventually graduated
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: to writing for Sneaker News. And I think by the
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: time I was writing there, it was my senior year
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: of college, and at that point I was taking less
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: and less classes, I had more free time, so I
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: was filling up my schedule basically with a lot of
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: time spent freelancing, making money, learning about shoes, and just
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: generally enjoying having some small, tiny role in the industry
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: because this was something by that time I was so
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: obsessed with. It was my hobby, you know what I mean.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's pretty admirable because a lot
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: of people would say, like I want to get into this,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I want to do this, but they don't take the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: initiative to actually go out of their way to do
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: something that might be seen by some as inconvenient, like
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you were going out of your way to write for
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: this site that didn't really aside from fulfill your interests,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: like give you all that much at.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: The time, I mean, they gave me. I don't want
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: to put it that way, because to me at the time,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: it was everything. Yeah, it was everything they could give
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: me to be able to make money, you know, to
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: be in sneakers. It felt it did feel like a lot.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: And I'm incredibly thankful to the people there who mentored
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: me and who brought me into this. The guy I
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: mentioned before you ming John Kim, Aaron k r. That
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: was that was huge for me, especially being so far
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: away from you know, they were based in New York
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: and well, I went to the University of Oregon and
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: that's a very important school with respect to the history
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: of sneakers and Nike, you know, which has its roots there.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: It still felt like I was far away from the industry,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: even though like he headquarters in Beaverton in Portland was,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: you know, a couple hours north. I still felt so
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: removed from all that. So to have this team put
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: me in the industry and have some trust in me,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it felt like a lot. It felt like if it
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: was a big moment.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Do you're a guy that likes writing about sneakers but
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: not necessarily in the conventional athletic sneaker.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Sense, Yeah, I would say not at all. And that like,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: like I said, like how I got into it. You know,
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: a lot of people were first interested at sneakers because
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: of sports. Again, that wasn't me. And the same thing
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: in college, like when I was really spending a lot
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: of money on sneakers or really really putting myself in
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: that world, it was like I wasn't doing any of
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: the associated activities. You know. Again, despite being at the
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: University of Oregon, where you know, where everybody, well not everybody,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: but where so many people who are important to Nike
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: came from Bill Bowerman, Phil Knight, Tinker Hatfield, I wasn't
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: running you know what I mean. My dorm freshman year
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: was across the street, literally across the street from Hayward Field,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: where Bill Bouerman coached Phil Knight. You know, that's hallow
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: ground in terms of sneakers, in terms of Nike, in
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: terms of the University of organ I was not invested
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: in that at all, or like I really in college,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: my level of physical activity was probably limited to the
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: few pe type courses that I took, mostly as a joke.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I took fencing. I took a fencing class. The University
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: of Oregan is a quarter system, so it's ten weeks
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: per quarter. Actually dropped out of my fencing class seven
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: weeks in because I was too embarrassed to carry on. Basically,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I'm left handed, and it was such a pain because
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: the instructor would go through the drills for the whole class,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: and then at the end of it he would go, now,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: of course, if you're left handed, this is all reversed
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: and kind of looked down to me at the end
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: of the line. And it was such a pain and
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I wasn't it wasn't really enjoying it. So I quit
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: that seven weeks in. You know, three weeks shy of
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: completing the course. I don't know how much of it
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: I retained now I think also I took a ping
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: pong course. I skipped ping pong one, went straight to
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: ping pong two. That was not advised. No, it was
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: not because of my skill at all. You know. I
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: think now I'm decent, and now I could hold my
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: own in ping pong two. But the teacher of that
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: course also a bit of an asshole. He referred to
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: me as Lefty the whole time, you know, and he
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: was constantly mocking my complete and total lack of skills,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: you know, wondering why I hadn't just gone to ping
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: pong one in the first place. And so so that
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: really those things I did finish that one, though I did.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I did stick it out in ping pong two, so
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I wasn't a quitter there. But yeah, other than that,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: my my amount of physical activity was really limited in college.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Got minimal physical activity, yes, minimal physical activity.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Maximal like eating Chinese food from Safeway.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I actually would really like to eat some Chinese food,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: but not from Safeway.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I haven't had Chinese food in a very long time.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: A big hack I had back in the day actually
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: the Chinese food from Safeway was that I knew exactly
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: when they would put it on sale because it'd been
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: sitting under a heat lamp all day. So at like
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: five PM, I would walk to the Safeway that was
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: about two blocks from my college house in Eugene in Oregon,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: and I would get it for you know, four dollars
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: or five dollars incredibly discounted rate and enjoy some crusty
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: low Maine back on my couch and.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Not entirely mad about that, because that's like I can
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: tell you we're the best French fries in like the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Fairfield County, Connecticut area are because I used to be
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: obsessed with French fries and they happened to be at
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the Maritime Aquarium in Okay.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Would they put them on sale or anything like it a.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Super deal overpriced, like you're getting something delicious and worth
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the investment.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you. A similar deal that I really
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: enjoyed as an adolescent was where I grew up in Idaho,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: on the edge of town. There was this one gas
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: station that was right by this bridge right before you
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: left town, and we figured out that they would put
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: all the food again under the heat lamp, like the
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: deli food, the jalapinio poppers and the chicken fingers and
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: the corn dogs and things like that. Right at six pm,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: they would put all on sale and you get each
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: item for twenty five cents. So you would walk in
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: there with two dollars and you would eat like a
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: king because you would have every like, you know, a
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: tepid piece of fried food you could ask for.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: What else could you ask for?
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe? Yeah, yeah it was yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, So not active in college.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: But we're not talking about the food I ate anymore.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah we're not. We're not there anymore. But I mean
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: we cross paths when you do become active.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, because because I became active even like eventually being
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: in the sneaker world. So out of college, I moved
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: to New York right after I graduated to become a
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: full time part of the team at Sneaker News. I
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: worked there for a number of years before eventually joining
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Complex and Soul Collector, which is a subsidiary of Complex,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: And through through those outlets, I start doing a lot
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: of press events. And that's how you and I met,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: because I assume we met at a Nike event, right
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: like Bosth. Of the times we see each other, it's
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: at a Nike.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Event, probably something like that.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I think we've definitely interacted in a capacity that also
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: involves Rebok and Asex.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Probably Adidas too. I'm sure I've seen you at some
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Adidas part.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we just you know, in the circle.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the mix, but definitely in the mix in
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: an active way.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, definitely. And this is probably like the part
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: of it is going to sound like a giant Nike commercial,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and I apologize to anyone listening for that, but I
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: do genuinely appreciate like the extent to which they've pushed
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: me towards physical activity and how many people I've met
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: through Nike, yourself included, who have made physical activity or
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: regular EXE a more constant part of my life, you
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: know what I mean?
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Collectivity a daily habit.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's almost daily for me.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Taking a break from today's episode to give my sponsor,
• 27:18
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• 27:23
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• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Let's get back to it.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about what it was like for
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: you at first when you started, because we're talking physical
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: activity as a whole, but really we're talking running. So
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: talk to me about kind of the barriers to entry
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: for you when you started running, What was going on
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: in your life when you started running, and how that
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: kind of played.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Out for you.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Actually, the funny thing I think before I ever
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: started running with Nike or you know, at the urging
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: of a brand, was a woman I was dating at
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: the time was super into running, and she was training
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: for marathons and half marathons and things like that. And
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: so we would go running and she would just try
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and get me to run, like, at first, even a mile,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: and I remember the pain of running a mile. You know,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: this is probably twenty and thirteen or maybe twenty fourteen.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: And then eventually it was like, well, can you run
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: two miles? Can you run a loop around Prospect Park
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: which is three point three miles? And to me that
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: was that was the real goal at the time, was
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: like running a loop around Prospect Park that that path
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: on the inside, which is three point three miles. Around
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: that time, I eventually started doing Nike running programs, you
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: know the stuff they used to do out of forty
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: five Grand Street, a studio Nike had downtown here in
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: New York. The Fastest Mile, Well did you do that
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: for the fast the Fastest mile program was a good time.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Oh so many. I mean we went out to Eugene.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: When you first started running with the woman that you
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: were dating at the time, was it hard for you
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to get over this idea that she was just so
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: much better out it than you?
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: You know, I didn't look at it quite like that,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: I don't think, because I think it was more selfish almost,
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: and more like I can't do this thing. It wasn't
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: like a gap between I mean, there was a gap
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: between us obviously in how much we could run or
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: how active we were at the time, but it was
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: more like I was more focused on what I couldn't
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: do than what she could do. That sounds selfish, but
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: it was. It was more about, damn, why can't I
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: just do one mile? Yeah? Or after that two miles,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: three point three miles, you know what I mean?
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: And when you started running, because you did make reference
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: to the Fastest Mile Program, which was essentially what I
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: think was maybe an eight or ten week program that
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I Folkes at Nike put together where they encouraged different
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: journalist members of the media to train to learn how
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: fast they could run a mile. So before that time,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: had you even considered or experimented with what speed meant
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: for you and your running?
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: No, definitely not. I think the only real experience I
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: had with that was I believe in seventh grade we
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: had to run a mile. It was said to say
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: thing for you growing up.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like the physical fit.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: There's like a proper national president the presidential physical thing.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Really was it the president who urged us to do
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: it at the time?
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Is it think the president?
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: We have George W. Bush to blame, But I'm just.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Saying, like I think it was called the presidential physical fitness.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, we're not sure which president, but something.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: That made you feel inferior.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, all.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: These benchmarks and if you didn't hit them, then you
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: like failed.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I really hadn't run with the idea of timing
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: something since then, So that's a gap of you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: at least ten years, you know, probably twelve years. You know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: A funny story actually, even going back to the level
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: of my physical activity in high school, was that in
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: high school I was worried about getting my PE credits
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: to graduate, and you needed two PE credits and you
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: could you could play sports, and every season of sports
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: you played was worth half of credit. So if you
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: played sports all four years in high school, you would
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: satisfy your pee requirement. So it was getting towards the
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: end of my my time in high school. This is
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: to go back again two thousand and five or you know,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I graduated two thousand and seven. But I was getting
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: worried about I promise the story is relevant. I was
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: getting worried about how to satisfy these requirements. And I thought, oh,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: maybe I could join the tennis team. I don't know,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: some easy team to join that doesn't require you know, tennis,
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: wasn't it. I can't play tennis then or now the
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: clock's taking it's my senior year, Okay. I figure out
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: one way to do it is to take a college
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: yoga course. I respect that because I didn't want to
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: do any of the real like sweaty, sporty in the
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: gym type stuff that was happening in actual high school.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: I actually think there was a class called life Sports
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: that was a total alternative to that that I still
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: strayed away from. But through North Idaho College, I had
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: a satellite campus and the small town in Idaho that
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: I lived in, and I was able to take a
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: college yoga course. So that was one of my credits
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: out of the way. The other credit I still didn't
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: know what to do. And again, this is my senior
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: year and the months are falling off the calendar and
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out of plan. So I signed
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: up for an online jogging course. I know it sounds absurd,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: but it's true. What's more absurd than me signing up
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: for the courses that I never actually completed it and
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: there was nobody There was no proctor, there was nobody
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: overseeing this. All I really had to do was like
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: chill out a log each week and write some assignments
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: and submit them online or whatever. I didn't do it.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: You know, we paid the money for it. I didn't
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: do it. So again, there are so few months left
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: before I'm supposed to graduate, where I have to figure
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: out how to get this other PE credit. You know,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I've wasted the money on the online jogging course. I
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: got the yoga thing out of the way. I'm feeling
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: limber or whatever whatever, but I'm only halfway there. So
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: my mom, God bless her, she was a counselor in
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: another school in the district, and she said, this is
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: what we're gonna do. I am going to become your
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: quote unquote instructor for a quote unquote at home homeschooled
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: PE course of jogging or another one of yoga. It
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: was either jogging or yoga. But she said, just write
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: an essay about what you learned in this make belief
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: course that we had at home in this time together,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: of this physical activity. I will submit to paperwork. You
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: will get your credit. And by that means I was
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: able to graduate high school.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: So I would pay money.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: To see the I wow, I don't know if anybody
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: would have it. I really, I don't know. You know
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: who knows.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: It's probably handwritten how.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Much those documents exist now. But that's yeah, that's that's
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: how a verse I was to this stuff in high school. Right.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: So, but now we're old and we're running fast.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, many decades later, no, or a decade in it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was that like for you?
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to I'm trying to really recall those early days.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Like I think oftentimes I'm just a quitter when it
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: comes to that stuff. So it was like, wow, I
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: have to I have to really learn to finish these things.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Whether again, this is Nike's Fastest Mile program, where, like
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: you said, it was eight or ten weeks and the
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: goal at the end of it is to set a
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: pr and a mile. I mean, I didn't really have
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: a pr at the time, but I had a time.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: I was aiming for a six minute mile, which seemed
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: doable but also difficult. And every week with the drills
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: or the practices we had to do, it was just like,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: I just have to finish these things. That was a
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: tough thing for me. Not not the starting of it,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: or like the waking up early or the spending the
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: extra time. It was just like when you are ninety
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: percent of the way through an exercise or through something
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: that Joe Holder, you know, a Nike Master trainer who
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: I know and love, and I think you can say
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: the same, is telling you to do and you're just like,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: all I want to do is not do this thing?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: How can this thing possibly help me in the long run?
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: All I am is in pain right now? You know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Joe Holder telling me and my hips are too tight
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: or you know whatever, just telling me I have to
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: run a little bit further. Yeah, it was just like that,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: That's what it was. It was how can I how
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: can I find the strength to complete these things every
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: every week? Again, this is a small level. We're talking
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: about training to run a mile, So I don't want
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: anybody to hear this and think like, oh, he's complaining
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: so much about you know, this training thing. Yes it was.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: It was not, in retrospect very hard or very intense,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: but at the time it felt like it. Or for me,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: you know, based on how much physical exercise I'd done
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: for the ten years prior, it seemed like a lot.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's interpretive, right, Like when
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I started running every day one summer, I ran a
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: half mile.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a mile.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I did it every day, and it sucked every day
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: those like fourteen minutes and twenty seconds that it took.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, was awful, Yes, but that was awful.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And like I deemed it to be difficult obviously, like
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: someone else is going to go out there and cruise
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: through that mile and then be like, let's go do
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: something else, Right, I didn't feel that way.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Right, So everybody's not even close. Everybody's different.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: So you, through this exercise, though, learn a little bit
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: about the importance of sticking with something and seeing it through.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure that and please correct me if I'm wrong.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: That that kind of starts to apply to maybe some
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: other things you have gone on in your life.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, And I think part of it was
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: just like that idea of finishing things or really like
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: being able to stay strong to the duration of a
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: task or the duration of a program, or you know,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: like finding a way to be disciplined. That's kind of
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: always been the excuse I give myself when I when
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: I dedicate myself to these pursuits. Is just like even
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: if I don't maybe you know, maybe it's too much
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: of a back door to not hit goals. But I'm
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: always like, this to me is about an exercise and discipline.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: It's about being there every week, or it's about dedicating
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: your time to it, even if you don't hear again,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of like realizing now, like, oh, maybe I
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: need to rethink that, because maybe that's why I don't
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: always hit my goals. You know. Going back to this
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: fastest mile thing. The goal I had set for myself
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: was six minutes, and I ran a mile in six
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: minutes and seven seconds. But then a year later I
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: finally returned to it and I was like, I know
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I can do this, and I had my brother past
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: me out and I did like five point fifty two
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: or something like that, and finally finally achieved that. But yeah,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: I think part of what it did for me was
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: helped me really have an eye toward discipline or have
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: a hunger for that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Taking a break from today's episode to give my sponsor
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Whoop a shout out. Now, you guys know, I geek
• 38:33
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• 38:36
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• 38:40
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• 38:43
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• 38:48
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• 38:53
  Speaker 2: A little insight into that. Every morning when you wake up.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And you open the Whoop app, users are prompted to
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: throw in some of their own insight as to what's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: been going on. So I wake up and I tell
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: the app whether or not I drink alcohol before bed,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: did I use a screen device before bed? Was I
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: sharing my bed with someone else? And all of these factors,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: as we know, can definitely impact sleep. Woop users also
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: experience injuries sixty percent less often when using the whoopstrap,
• 39:20
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• 39:26
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• 39:29
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• 39:43
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• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the code hurdle at checkout and optimize the way you train. Firstly,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: my marathon, my mile PR is also six oh seven,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: although yours.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Is five point fifty two.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Did you set it?
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: No?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I said it so the fastest mile. I think my
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: mile pr was six twenty one.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: And this was what year did they do that program?
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Man? I want to say it was like four years ago.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds about right.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: And this year I set a six oh seven in
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Mile.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Beautiful.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But from this program and the discipline you learned, obviously
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: that's something that inspired you to keep running, to keep
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: moving and do some other stuff. I mean, just the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: simple sentence, a simple scenario you just presented. Like a
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: year later, I had my brother pace me to run
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: another mile the Brandon three years before the fastest mile
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: experiment wouldn't have been like, you know, what we should
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: do tomorrow, we should pace another mile?
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Not at all, Yeah, not at all. And it was
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: funny because it just kind of naturally ratcheted up from
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: there where It's like we started at one mile and
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: you know, again at the time that seemed quite difficult
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: or it seemed like a long distance to try and
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: push myself for that pace now so much more manageable.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: But from there I started doing random five k's and
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: things like that. I think the next thing that I
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: really trained for was Hood to Coast, which is a
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety nine mile relay race in Oregon.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: So there was a very emotional thing for me too,
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: because you know, being back where I am quote unquote
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: from depending on how we want to look at it.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: And I think we did that again with Nike. Like
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: I said, I Nike is not paying me for this,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: but I do so much appreciate all the support they've
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: given me and all the things they've introduced me to
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: and how much they've turned me into a runner. And
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: I do owe a lot to that. Well, I don't
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: owe a lot to them. Niki is not paying me
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: for that, but I'm appreciative for that. So we did
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Hood to Coast. I think that was in two thousand
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: and it's two years ago, twenty seventeen. Yeap. That was.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: That was like the next thing where you know, like
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: I was running pretty regularly between those programs, but that
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: was the next thing where it was like a prolonged
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: training period, and it was it was so much more serious.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: It was not you know, a mile is it's over
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: in six minutes hopefully in my case six or seven.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: But the Hood to Coast thing, again, this is a
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: one hundred ninety an hole relay race. You have a
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: big team of twelve people and you are embarking on
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: this journey for thirty hours or so of running for
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: five miles and then sleeping for a little bit, and
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: then getting back up and running for another seven miles
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: and sleeping for a bit and then running for five
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: more miles to put all these things together. So that
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: was the next time that I had like a program
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: where every week I was supposed to spend x amount
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: of time doing this and figuring out how to run
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: hills properly and things like that. So yeah, and then
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: half marathons and then am I getting am I getting
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: ahead of it, dadding or now you're not getting ahead?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: So what I think two things to highlight.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: First of all, I love that you said the sentence
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: I have them to think that I am a runner.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I think still like I'm recording.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: A podcast tomorrow night with like that as a complete
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: podcast for runners yea, And they asked me to be
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: on it. And I was getting ready this morning thinking
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: about the things that I want to highlight there tomorrow.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And despite being a certified run coach and an eight
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: time marathoner, I still want sometimes eight time, eight time,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I get to say eight Now it's kind of fun
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: when I say it like that, though, I still like,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: don't I have imposter syndrome?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: No matter what? You know what I mean? So I
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: love that you just so you just like I'm a runner,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I am.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: I finally I'm finally embracing that. I feel like now
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: that you know it's been a number of years, you
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: know a lot of it too, is like you have
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: the vocab of it right, like you know, like splits
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: are and you know you can talk about your pr
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and you can maybe go home and see some metals
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: on it. So you need some real context yeah, you need,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: you need, you need to collect things. Maybe it's kind
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: of the same again me collecting things. You know, before
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: it was sneakers. Now it's all this knowledge and stuff
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: about what I can do to actually consider myself a runner,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: and I think I'm there now.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I like that I'm going to start also believing that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: For me or for you. Okay, you know, come.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: On, I no, no, I'm here here.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want the hurdlers to think that, like, I
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: don't understand that I have earned the dinner. And I
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: still felt, I still feel some days that I'm like, Wow,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy that I'm this person, you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: and we've gotten to this place. I want to, with
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: respect to our time, also segue a little bit into
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: something else I want to highlight, which was that you
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: were saying that you were really proud that you stuck
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: with something, and it wasn't so much about the amount
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: of time that you completed that original fastest smile in
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: as much as it was that you were proud that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you did it. With relevance to your recently completed first marathon.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: I did it.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: You did it the Chicago Marathon, and you went into
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: this marathon and we were. We were in Chicago together,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: you went into this marathon. I also feel like I
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: need to like give a little context to the sentences
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: that we.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Say, like so colloquially, like we were in these places together.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Because I think for the normal person, it's like, oh,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: so you guys booked a trip and you went to
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Chicago together. We both went to run Chicago. We happened
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: to be there at the same time. I think the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: industry that we are in, we keep like throwing out
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: all these events and these things that we go do.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: We're very fortunate that we get to develop these friendships
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: and relationships with people and then in turn like travel
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: too similar places.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you just go, You just go somewhere and you're like, oh,
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: you're here, beautiful.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's funny.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's funny because I'm like, yeah, we went
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: to Chicago, and it's like, oh, so you guys booked
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: a trip and like we say, and like what you say, we.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Were in Chicago together. We both ran the marathon.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: And I know, going into Chicago you had like a
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: very like serious goal for yourself despite it being your
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: first marathon, which is an ill advice thing for a
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: first time marathon or two.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Have I'm glad I know that now, Emily, you do.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Why are we talking about my marathon Timeit stop? Why
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: are we talking about my marathon time and not your marathons?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about because this Okay, before we go.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: On the record, okay, before we go on the record
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: with my marathon time or my you know journey in
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: the marathon, can we please at least mention your marathon time.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: My marathon time is three twenty eighth eight beautiful. I
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: can't drop the mic because of our current setup, but
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: if I could drop it in that.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: That would be an appropriate place. Okay, as long as
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: we get that out the way, because I don't want
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: to sit you're talking about my you know, marathon time
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: if we do not at least acknowledge.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: You're very sweet. So we go into the corral korl E.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: And we're getting ready to start the marathon, and you
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: are you're actually.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: I'm asking you a million questions about what the protocol
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: is because a marathon, to me, is so complicated. And again,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: I live a privileged life with respect to these races,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: because I always have someone at Nike telling me what
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: to do and where to go and how to act generally.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: So that's part of my thing with running too, is
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: that it's been so much a community thing for me,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: despite me, despite the actual act of running being so
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: much a solo endeavor. I always have people who I
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: rely on when I'm running, you know, like we've ran
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: a number of times together in whatever event or race,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: and you know, I never have a watch or a phone,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: so I'm always leeching off someone else being like, Hey,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: what's this pace here? How far did we go? Things
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: like that. So that morning you were helping my coworker
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Gerald and myself. You were helping us, like, you know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: we had never run a marathon before, so we were
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: like where do we go? What do we do? Where
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: do we check it out?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Like I was like leading like my little ducklings around.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my god.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: But the thing is is that you went in with
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: a very specific goal, having done a lot of the
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: work and holding really consistent paces and things like that,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: despite doing a ton of traveling, like you did that
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: insane training run in Tokyo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, forever be
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: probably one of the most insane training runs I've ever
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: oh speak about.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: I just you know, it was so important to me
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: to not drop days out of my training regimen. That's
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: not so that's not so military, you know regiment, but
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: you know the schedule I had, and I was I
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: was always so worried about slacking in some way, so
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: I'd be frantically texting the various Nike affiliated coaches who
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I rely on, you know, Coach Finley, Coach Jess Woods,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Joe Holder, people who have all come to again and
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: again for support, and being like, is it okay to
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: skip this day? What should I do? How do I
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: how do I readjust? But yeah, I was traveling a
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: lot in the month before Chicago, and I was in Tokyo,
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: and I knew I had to do I knew I
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: had to do fourteen miles at some point and twenty
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: miles at some point. So I went out one night
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: and I was like, it was three am, and I said,
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: this is the twenty mile run right here. I feel
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: okay about it. And I found I think, I think
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: that the place I originally wanted to run there was
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: some construction, because there's a lot of construction going on
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: in Tokyo now for the twenty twenty Olympics. So I
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: found another place there was like a three mile loop,
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: and I was doing that again and again, and it
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: was wet out because it had rained, and all these
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: government workers just staring at me, and I got pretty
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: far through it, but then I was like, no, I
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: have to stop. This is absurd. It's four am. This
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: is not going to work. And I think I did
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: fourteen miles that night. But then I went back a
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: few days later. This is during my Chicago Marathon training
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: while I was in Tokyo. I went back a few
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: days later and there was this loop i'd found that
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: was I think the loop was one twenty five meters
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: and I said, well, this is this is like the
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: simplest way I can get this done, The most efficient
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: way I can get this twenty mile run doone is
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: to just go to this loop and do it twenty
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: four times and then add a little bit on top
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: and I'll be there. That'll be That'll be twenty miles.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: So that, yeah, that was That was one of the
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: longest runs I did during that training. Was just loop
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: and it was just the math of Okay, just do
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: eight loops first, and do another eight, and then there'll
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: be a hard eight at the end, and then that's twenty.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: It was it well, I mean again, like going back
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: to this idea that for so long when you were
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: younger you struggled with not like leaving something partly done
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: right and get to this point now, like running has
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: given you so much in the scheme of your productivity,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: in your diligence, and then that one hundred percent is
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: just so appable, I'm sure to even the success that
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: you've seen a complex like you've held a few different titles,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and that's because of persistence, I'm sure.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's just the ability to just see something through.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: And it's harder for me to do in physical activity
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: that it is for me to do in other parts
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: of my life. So sometimes I feel like the transfer
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: is more I transfer that to my approach to staying active, exercising,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: running and things like that, because I feel like I'm
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: I'm better at it outside of the realm of the physical,
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: do you know what I mean?
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seems that it's starting to work out
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: pretty well for you. So you run the marathon, yes,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: and how does it go?
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: Ups and downs? There were ups and downs. The course
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: is pretty flat, because as you said, despite the course
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: being pretty flat, they were ups and downs. My goal
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: time was three hours and thirty minutes. And first of all,
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: I hate how much time there is leading up to
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: the marathon and how many instances in which you have
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: to say, yeah, I'm running a marathon, just as small talk.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: Not to be one of those people who talks about
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: it all the time. And then someone asks you, oh,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: what's your goal, and then you have to say the
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: goal and then they tell you congratulations. What do you
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: mean congratulations. I haven't done anything yet. I've done a
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: lot of training. But you know I would say, oh,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: three thirty, which is an eight minute pace throughout twenty
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: six point two miles, and say wow, that's really fast,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: and I say, well, I haven't. I haven't done it yet. Yeah,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: in theory it would, it would be reasonably fast if
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: I actually did it. But I haven't done it yet.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: So my final time for the marathon was far far
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: off from that. It was four hours and fourteen minutes around.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: I actually don't I should have the official.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Time like you shouldn't.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: Haven't very much memorized, maybe tattooed on my body. But
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: I started out way too fast. And you know, we
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: had talked about it, you and I had talked about it. Basically,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: the approach is to just find a pace group and
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: stay with that pace group and figure out where that
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: pace group is relative to your goal and to your
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: physical ability. And this is one of the things I
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: realized I'm deficient. And when it comes to running, is that,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: like I said earlier, I rely on other people a lot.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: And I think after that race, I realized I maybe
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: rely on other people too much and don't have enough
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: awareness of exactly how fast I'm running or exactly where
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: I am and things like that, because in the first
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: couple miles I couldn't find a pace group. Everybody had
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: been telling me, oh, you could find a pace group.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: You know, you can find the person holding a stick
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: up that says on that stick a sign if you
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: run with me for this whole thing, you will finish
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: in this amount of time. And I was looking for
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: the person with the three thirty the three thirty stick,
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: you know, I couldn't find them. I was running. I
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: didn't really know. Again, I don't wear a watch. I
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: don't have a phone. And that's not a great idea,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: but I mean I don't have a phone. I don't
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: run with a phone. But I couldn't, you know. So
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: I just I would just find people who felt like
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: they were going around where I was comfortable with and
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: run with them. Eventually I found a pace group and
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: it was the three twenty five pace group, which is,
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: you know, significantly faster than the three thirty pace group.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: So do you know off the tip of your head
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: what a three twenty five. I mean, you were pretty
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: close to it. So do you know what pace that is?
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: My three twenty eight was like a seventh of Jesus.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I say this out lod like a
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: seven forty six. Yeah, overall pace.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe maybe maybe around seven thirty or something like.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: That, at least seven thirty five.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So agree, not mathematicians were journalists.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: I'm just a blogger. But I was with that three
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: twenty five pace group and it felt fine, you know.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: I was with them for fifteen miles or something like that,
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: and I really thought in my head at some point, oh,
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do this at this pace. I fell
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: apart eventually, I think around Again. I don't have the
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: exact numbers because I kind of like, you know, it's
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: in the past now, but I should I should know
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: the exact story, but around like probably sixteen or seventeen miles,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: I slowed down a little bit and then I really
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: just like stopped. I didn't, you know, my back was
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: in pain, and just my energy in general was I
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: don't want to say depleted, because your energy is never
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: really depleted, despite what you think, but it was low,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: and I just I knew, I knew I had done
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: something wrong.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: What made you not quit?
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: The thing is I did kind of quit. It felt
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: like I was quitting when it, you know, like I was,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: I was walking. There was like a span of probably
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: two miles where I was walking, and I was just thinking,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: oh my god, I spent these weeks and months preparing
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: for this thing, and I've fallen short, and now I
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: will have to go through the shame the next eight
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: miles or whatever. I just walking this thing like I
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: knew I was. I was resigned to do it that way,
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: and it was you know, usually I run A lot
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: of people make fun of me because I'm always running
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: in shorts like this, even in the winter, you know,
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: and I'm never really that cold. But I was so
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: cold in that moment in those Chicago streets with the
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: wind blowing and I wasn't moving anymore, and I had
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: on a tank top and shorts, and everything seemed to
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: slow me down. And you know, there's all these people
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: cheering you on and telling you you got this, and
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know who you are. Who were
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: you to tell me that I've got this? Or I'm
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: you know, I look great. I don't know I was,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: you know, I was a kid, just like getting angry,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: like you know, everybody, everybody on the side is telling
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: me I still have it under control. I'm like, what
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: have you? What have you accomplished? You don't know, you know,
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: And then I really thought I was gonna walk the
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: you know, the rest of it, the last eight miles
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: or seven miles or whatever, you know what. One one
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: piece of pain I remember particularly was that my my elbow,
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: like the the connectors in my arm really hurt, like
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: when I would like swing my arm back and forth,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: you know, even if I would try to run a
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: little bit, because it felt so cold and so stiff.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Eventually I found Knocks, you know, a guy who's been
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: affiliated with Nike running programs here in New York for
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: a while. He I think it was around on the
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: course where the three three run two group was which
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: is like a Chicago base run was it?
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Is it twenty one?
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Okay? Wow, so this is see this is the story
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: is a little bit different than I remember it in
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: my head. But this guy knocks you know who I've
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: run with through Nike a number of times. He saw
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: me and he saw how much I was struggling. And
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: I still need to reach out to him personally and
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: just thank him so much because he he he ran
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: up to me and he was ready to just give
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: me his jacket and I was like, no, no, I'm good.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: You know, he's definitely giving me water, he's giving me things,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: a drink, He's trying to figure out what do you need?
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: What do he and he walked with me for at
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: least half a mile and eventually finally found like a
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: space blanket for me to just wrap around me because
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: he could tell, you know, at that at the very least,
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: I was cold and needed something to just like stay
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: you know, awake or you know this sounds so dramatic,
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: but you know, just stay alive at that point, and
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: that was the first thing where I was like, Okay,
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: this is going to help me get through this, because
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: up to that point in the marathon, in terms of
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: me breaking down or me falling apart. I was like,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm gonna Yeah, I got you.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: How am I going to move for these last eight miles?
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: You know, eight miles, six miles whatever it was. So
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: that was start running, That was the first step.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: What then, but then you move? Start moving again?
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: It took me a while, you know, I I I was,
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: I was mad, and I was frustrated, and I was
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: huddled under this blanket kind of trying to, you know,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: cower and disappear and just be invisible, you know, just
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: looking straight ahead, not looking at any of the people
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: cheering me on or going past me, just trying to
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: detach myself from that whole thing, because really I didn't
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: feel like I was in the race in any way
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: at that point, and I was upset, but also I
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: was more just like I just need to finish this thing.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: And I think I walked for for a while longer,
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: and what eventually made me move again. You know, I
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: would try to for a little bit, but I just
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: couldn't really like run run. I was and I was
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: walking mostly. I think I would like sway from side
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: to side, of the street, depending on where the sunlight
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: is because I felt so cold. But at one point
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: somebody bumped into me and it was a guy who
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: was running with his friends, and his friend said his
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: friend said, you're a fucking idiot. And I had no
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: idea if this guy was talking to me or to
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: his friend and some something. If for whatever reason, I
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: wanted to know, I you know, I'm not like an
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: aggress person in the least. I have never been in
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: a fight. I you know, do not enjoy violence in
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: any form. But if I felt like like primarily like
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: aggressive or you know, there's some weird like deep lizard
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: brain thing where I was just like I reacted to
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: that this person bumping into me and this guy saying
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: you're a fucking idiot, and I was like, are you me?
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: I was like, are you talking to me? Like I've
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: literally never been like are you talking to me? You
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: know that's not me at all, But like this happened,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm going to catch up. I
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: need like are they talking to me? Like what is
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: he talking? I'm an idiot? Or that guy's So I
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: just started running after them, and I had the blanket
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: around and like and I have this space blanket around
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: my shoulders and I'm finally like I'm moving again, And
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: for whatever reason, that was the thing where I'm actually
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: like running, I'm actually doing you know, where you could
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: consider at this point jogging or running. And from there
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: I managed to finish the race running and that's you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of people have asked me how how the
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: marathon went, and I've told them I I've told them
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: not great. But I'm proud of what I did. I'm
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: not proud of my time, but I'm proud of the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: fact that I had had a chance to completely break
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: down or completely let it go, and I didn't. I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: managed to come out of that somehow, you know, and
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: I ran an okay pace for the last three miles.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: You know, I especially like the last mile and a half.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: I feel like I really pushed it and really gave
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: my effort, and at the end felt like I gave
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: a proper effort, even though the plan was not executed
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: at all, really, you know, in terms of how fast
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: I was supposed to be going and how fast I
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: ended up going. And you know, all the people I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: know who passed me and saw me, you know, broken
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: down there.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: I saw you. I know, I'm so bummed that I didn't.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: No, it's it's best you. It's best you didn't because
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: it wouldn't.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: But I think it's so beautiful.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Basically, your takeaway is really special because it we science
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: has said that we remember experiences often by how we
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: finish them. So you finished that marathon strong, and that's
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: really awesome. But you can walk away and have this
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: wise smart takeaway from a truly once in a lifetime experience.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I hope once in a lifetime. I hope next time
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: I don't break down in the middle.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, where there's the will, there's the way, right,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like for me during that marathon, I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: just kept telling myself two things.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: One was just like, come back to calm.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Every time where I started to feel it all worked up,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: is just come back to calm. And then I literally
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: convinced myself that I was not going to hit the wall.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is not an option for you
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: at this point. You've come too far to only come
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: this far, Like it's on now the closer I got
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: to the finish line and was still like hitting those
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: those pieces for me, So I just I think it's
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: really special that you did it like that and that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: now you have the opportunity to build from that. Yeah,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, there's a reason why that happened in
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: that way for you. And it really just sounds to
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: me like kind of a pinnacle moment, not necessarily definitely
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: a life long hurdle moment for sure, but a pinnacle
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: for you and that you and that exercise in that race,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: you had the opportunity to exercise something that you had
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: literally been struggling with your entire life.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like your entire finishing. Yeah, just finishing. And so
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: I think that's pretty dope.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was funny because when I finished, I knew.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: I knew at that time that I was so far
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: off from my goal, but I wasn't disappointed by that
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: at all. And I think even seeing some of the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: other people who were there with us in the tent afterwards,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: I probably looked quite emotional, and someone told me that
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: my lips were blue, I guess from how cold it was.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: But I wasn't at all emotional because I was sad
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: about having been so far off from what I wanted
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: to do. I was just emotional over having done it.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Overlooking at my phone, and seeing all the people who
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: I cared about, who were messaging me, or who had
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: texted me or called me, you know, before or after
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: to see how I was doing, or to congratulate me,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: or to give me support of some kind. All those
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: things were bigger than the fact that I had, for
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: a portion of it, failed so miserably or fallen so
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: far from what I felt like I was there to do.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: There's a lesson in every failure. All right, We're winding
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: down two last questions for you.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: First question, You are probably in a career that a
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: lot of people look at as pretty freakinstellar. When you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: look at your time either at Secret News at Complex
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: and you think about the best piece of advice that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: you have been offered in your career, what do you.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Think about I think one of the best pieces of advice.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know if this is the single best, but
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: it's up there because you know it's memorable and it's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: what's coming to mind now is gu named Nick Schomberger,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: who used to who used to be my boss at
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: Complex and he's he's actually at Nike now in Beaverton.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: But he kind of told me once that he wanted
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: me to be in positions that would challenge me, and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: he wanted me to do things that would actually push me.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: You know, we all know what we're capable of, but
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: we don't know what we're not capable of. And I
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: think that that kind of made me realize that, or
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: kind of made me focus on not necessarily doing what
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: would satisfy me versus doing what would challenge me. That's
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: not that sounds so uh, that sounds like I'm totally
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: dedicated to doing what's challenging me all the time. I'm
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: not quite there yet, but it's a it's a thing
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: that has reminded me that that's important. I'm not there yet,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: I don't want to. I am not so so so
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: such a monk that I am, you know.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Not quite monks status, right, non andy putticum right? Okay,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: And the last question, please you have the opportunity to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: offer the Brendan a piece of advice when he is
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: kind of just getting into the swing of things with
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: this running thing. I almost feel like I want you
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: to talk to the Brendan who is challenging himself to
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: run his first ever fastest mile, because at that point
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: that was when you really for the first time had
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: to shove this. I have the opportunity to give up
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: to the side.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: It's it's so simple, but it's really just finish, you know,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: it's the end is in sight. You've done this before.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: You know what you have to do to get there.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: Just finish.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I love it. Thanks man, Yeah, me the best.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Please take a moment leave a quick review by clicking
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: the link with the description to this episode. We all
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear about yours.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle dot us.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Connect with the podcast on Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle Podcast.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Brendan. Where do they find you? How do they keep
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: up with you? Give me the deats.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: They can find me at Brendan Dunn on Instagram that's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: b r e n d A n d U n
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: n E. I guess they can also find me there
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: on Twitter, but my Twitter is like a super duper
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: secret private. Don't follow me, don't tweet at me because
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: I won't look at it. Yeah. That's also. You can
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: definitely watch Full Size Run on YouTube every week at
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: six pm Eastern and you know, click the like button
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: to leave a comment. About how good my skin looks.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: You know, stuff, stuff like that is all. It is
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: all appreciated. Maybe even get my face tattooed on your
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: body if you if you really feel like a dedicated fan.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me Emily.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: At Emily a body. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: next time.