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DDH - Conclave · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

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Dominus pasta roses. History's strange, it's alien,
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and it won't give us what we would like to have.
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headline@filmic.com Bad decisions.
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Dave Bowman is with us. That's not one of the bad
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decisions, by the way, although I kind of said so earlier.
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Anyway, Dave brings us. Dave does history every Tuesday
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in this hour. By the way, if you want to
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follow us on Instagram, it's at WMNB Radio.
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And today, something I'm going to learn something about other
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than what I've seen on movies or television, I know nothing
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really about the Catholic faith. I wasn't raised Catholic.
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I was raised in a Baptist Church.
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And while there are similarities in the belief system, the the
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traditions and structure are vastly different.
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And now the Catholic Church faced with picking a Pope after
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the death of Pope Francis. So, Dave, you weren't raised
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Catholic either, but you've dug into this a little bit, huh?
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I wasn't raised Catholic and of course I've changed my faith in
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growing up. I was raised in a church that
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had a similar process for choosing a leader, which you
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know, as a kid fascinated me. The the idea of the selection of
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a Pope fascinates me. The first one, I remember 7778
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when they chose, I think it was John Pope, Pope John Paul the
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first, who then died a month later or something like that.
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And then and then we went through it all again.
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Of course, this was all on the news, which back then it was
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much different. There's this fascinating mindset
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to this. As it got older, they started
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watching things. I I love the television show The
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Borgias. Yeah.
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I have not seen conclave but but the Borgias was fascinating me,
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probably because I really like Jeremy Irons.
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And so we get this, we get this mindset that electing a Pope is
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this, I don't know, crazy conclave that that results in
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all kinds of games of throne maneuvering.
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And maybe it Once Upon a time it was, And maybe to some degree it
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still is. None of us really know, because
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none of us have actually been locked into the Sistine Chapel
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with a bunch of other Cardinals to make those decisions.
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Are they sworn to secrecy about what goes on in there?
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Yes, this whole thing is we. Don't really know other than
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leaks right? It it's a political process, it
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looks like. It is a very political process
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and and even today we're seeing the politics of it.
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I've seen multiple discussions about what are we looking for in
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this new Pope? Are we looking for a
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conservative traditionalist, a conservative modernist, a
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progressive traditionalist, a progressive?
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This what you know, people are already lobbying.
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They're our website. I've seen a website out there
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that says we want this guy as Pope.
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And of course, you know, he, that guy supports their
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political vision and those sorts of things.
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We've seen arguments about whether or not we can have a
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woman Pope. Now the answer to that is no,
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but there are people. Which ended up being, well, no,
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I'm not, I can't say that. All right, this all takes me to
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my favorite meme of the last couple of days, which is maybe
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this time they'll pick a Catholic.
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Well, there is that. I'm all about irreverent humor
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and and sorry if you don't like it, that's just where I live,
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but. We have this vision, but like I
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said, it's right out of the Borgias or Conclave.
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We, we have this idea of how this thing works, but it's it's
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not really what happens. This is a centuries old
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tradition, goes back to the 1200s where the grown men and
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silks, ashes get locked into the Sistine Chapel.
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They have no phones, no staff with them, no DoorDash delivery,
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really no contact with the outside world except for food
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that is brought into them until they choose a new Pope.
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You almost, well, you almost think, how long can this take,
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right? It should be a fairly simple
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thing, but of course it's more complicated than that.
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The word conclave comes from the Latin cum clave, which means
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with a key mean the doors are literally locked to the Sistine
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Chapel. And this started back in 1274.
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We're going to talk about that in just a minute.
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This didn't used to be as simple as it is now.
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There was a time when there was a lot more intrigue to it.
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The, the presumption is that there's, you know, God is
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picking the vicar of Christ. And so there should be really
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not much, not much else involved with this.
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But as with all human endeavors, it does become a political Game
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of Thrones if you want, which of course, is how you ended up with
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a lot of the medieval popes who were, what's the word for it,
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Bill? Oh, yeah.
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Insane. These were people I was.
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Going to go with evil, but OK, we'll go with that.
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You know, it's how many, how many family members, how many
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children do they have and the likes of that.
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What we're all waiting for, though, is the smoke.
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Of course, conclave has not started yet.
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The, the funeral will be on Saturday.
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And then I, the rules are the conclave has to start.
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I believe it's within two weeks of the funeral.
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In the meantime, you've got, you know, some procedures in place,
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which by the way, do not. And if you're one of those
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people that is going to post this on Facebook, don't There is
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no Maxwell Silver Hammer. There is no Pope dead Pope
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Hammer so don't post that. That's a pure myth was
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completely made-up. There's this meme going around
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about the hit they probe in the head with the hammer three
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times, you know to see to make sure he's dead or to kill him.
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I guess is more likely, but it. And that may have happened in
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the past, but it not for the purpose stated.
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But yeah. But not since 1274.
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So don't post that meme. It's not true.
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Eventually we're going to get to the smoke, you know, white if
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you if if they've chosen a Pope, black if they don't.
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In and of itself, that whole thing is is a interesting
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sideline in history of how do you get the colors of smoke and
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what happens when it was raining and that sort of thing.
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All of those kinds of things in 19 O3.
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In case you were wondering if the politics gets involved,
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Austria Hungary Emperor Franz Joseph, we kind of talked about
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this week on what the frocks sort of he sent a message to a
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conclave saying no, that Pope, that guy cannot be Pope.
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And the other Cardinals were like, OK, we're going to make
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him Pope. And so, so even the politicians
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that try to get involved aren't, aren't always successful.
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We've seen Pope's resign Now we've we've gone through this
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process before. It's a process that we're
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vaguely familiar with, but it is ancient.
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It is a little mysterious. It's timeless.
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Does it involve the Holy Spirit? I have no idea.
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Is it a little bit of a House of Cards?
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Absolutely. But at the end of the day,
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choosing the Vicar of Christ is not just about divine guidance.
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It's about human nature, which is flawed, faithful and
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sometimes fantastically theatrical.
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And we pick it up in 60 seconds on Bill Mclaugh.
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Speaking of that app, make sure you set Bill, Mick live, WMNB
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and Dave's work as the top favorite presets there at the
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top of the app. And we're right there at your
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fingertips whenever you're ready for us.
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So only thing I know about this, Dave, is what I've seen in
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movies or television. And you know how accurate those
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tend to be. That's part of the problem,
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isn't it? I mean, yeah, when you're when
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you're doing a television show, you want to make it
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entertaining. So maybe it's accurate, maybe it
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isn't. I mean, like I said, I really
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like this TV show, Borges, But is that drama or is it really
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history? The answer is, well, a little.
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Bit of both. But not not as accurate as you
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would necessarily like to be of. Course, what you got me to
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thinking about when you talked about being locked in and only
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thing being brought in as food is a how big's the men's room
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because they don't need a women's room.
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And what are the lines like during a break?
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Come on. I see for me, being locked in
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the Sistine Chapel, as you know, I'm an art guy, would be absent.
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See, I would be so lost in looking at the artwork and just,
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oh, it'd be. Amazing.
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And I'm not an art guy, but that would be amazing.
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So my favorite painting in all of history is in the Sistine
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Chapel. So there you go.
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The of course the Pope has died. Pope Francis has in fact died.
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I think we can be sure of that. We will take our metaphorical
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silver hammer, whack em three times in that.
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We don't really do that, but it does.
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There is something about that, that this kind of funny, I
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guess. The period in term in in term
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now is known as the Seti vacante, which means literally
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the seat is empty. That during this time, the
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Cardinal Camolingo, which you may remember from the Dan Brown
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movie, his role, he confirms the Pope's death, he smashes the
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ring, he does all those kinds of things, and he begins the the 9
10:23
days of memorial and prayer. The God my Latin is so bad
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intergnum. This is a period between the
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death and the election of the successor.
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Now during this time, the, the Cardinal Occult College of
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Cardinals will become the temporary governing body of the
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church. They will take, they plan the,
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the funeral of the of the Pope, which they have, I believe now
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completed as of this morning. I saw on the news this morning,
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which leaves them ready for the funeral on Saturday.
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They're going to do some other things and we'll get into some
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of that coming up after the break.
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Is that Carmel lingo? Is he like in charge until they
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get a new leader? Sort of.
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He's like the administrator or something.
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Yeah, I'd, I'd make him more the administrator.
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They're not going to let him really be in charge.
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This isn't Hollywood. No, no, no, that's true because
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too many politicians in the room for that.
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We pick it up picking a Pope on Bill Mick live when we continue
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on WMMB. All the way from Silverdale, WA,
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here's Dave Bowman on Bill Mick Live.
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Richmond Transmission and Auto Service are our sponsor and it's
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Dave does history as it is on Tuesdays as it won't be next
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Tuesday, I'll be on vacation. But other than that, Dave is
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with us. And today we look at picking a
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Pope. And so they're getting ready to
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go in and no real leader for the church at this moment, Dave.
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And they've, they've got to make that decision.
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Yeah, it's, it's interesting the way they don't seem to have a
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specific leader, but of course they have this College of
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Cardinals who are spending each day meeting.
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They're they're meeting every day.
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They're reviewing the state of the global church.
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You know what, what kind of challenges lie ahead?
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They're they're talking to each other, they're sharing opinions.
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What what should we do? What are we looking for?
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Of course, they've organized the funeral and they've begun to
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organize the process of, of conclave.
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How much of this will be that way before we go into there?
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And they also build take oaths of secrecy.
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You were asking about that earlier.
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These are, these are to ensure the sacred integrity of the
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election process. Now, how much of that works out?
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Who knows? Now they cannot make any major
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decisions. There are no bishops appointed,
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no doctrinal decisions, no policy shifts, no change in the
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liturgy while the while the Pope is empty.
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It's not a power vacuum per SE, but it is kind of a power pause.
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So we're just kind of waiting for the next, you know,
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spiritual father to come along. And in the meantime, we just
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sort of put a hold on everything.
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Now, it wasn't always done this way.
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The, the conclave that we have today is a it's an invention of
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the, the medieval period. In 1270, I'm sorry, 1268, they
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held a papal election. They did not hold it in Rome.
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They held it in a little city off to the north there and this
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thing went on for three years. They couldn't make a call.
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They wouldn't make a call because there was so much
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political intrigue in this whole thing.
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And the city, of course, was expected to pay for all this.
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And these Cardinals were used to dining with the the best food
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and living the the high life. And they weren't exactly doing
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the Lord's work every day. As if you get my drift.
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But they were, they were dragging this on.
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In fact, several of the Cardinals died during this.
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One of them resigned. And this went on and on and on.
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And finally the people of the city where they were doing this
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got fed up with it. They, they were tired of paying
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for it. They were tired of this.
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And so the mayor of the town LED a little bit of a revolt.
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They went over to the building where the where the Cardinals
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were meeting and they tore the roof off the building and
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basically told them, OK, you're in here until you make a
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decision under the hot sun, rain, whatever happens, the
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doors are locked. You're not leaving until you
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pick a Pope. And three years after they
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started, they picked the Pope. This guy decided that what we
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need now is we need some rules for this.
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And so this is where the idea of conclave is going to come from
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out of this 12741274 Second Council of Lyon, where they are
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going to sit down and go, OK, now we need to figure out
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exactly how this is supposed to work.
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So Dave, this thing was set up back in the late 1200s and I'm
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sure it's had some changes since then.
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So what's the idea now? So in 1234, Pope Gregory the
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10th holds the second Count Council of Lyon, at which they
15:26
they address 5 issues. It doesn't really matter.
15:28
All five of them. Church reform trying to reunify
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with the Greek Orthodox Church? Clerical discipline because they
15:34
were having a problem with priests not behaving the way
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they were supposed to? Huh.
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No how? Does that work?
15:42
And of course, they wanted to fix the papal election disaster
15:45
that they'd just gone through. Oh, and by the way, for good
15:48
nature, we should probably invade the Holy Land again.
15:52
So let's plan a new crusade. Wow.
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Out of all of this, really what comes out of this is the con,
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what we know today as the Conclave.
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The idea here is Gregory the 10th says we're not.
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We're not doing that again. We we just can't.
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So from now on, the Cardinals will be locked up in conclave.
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They will have no external communication.
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Of course, we know how well that worked out.
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They will not have any luxuries. Now think about that.
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One of the big deals with Pope Francis is that he is humble and
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that he's, you know, he's being buried in a plain coffin.
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He lived in a he didn't live in the fancy apartment.
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You kind of assume this, you know, with, with Cardinals, but
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but they had to be reminded you, you don't get to live in luxury
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during all this. So that's kind of an incentive
16:44
to get it done. If you want to get back to your
16:47
regular question mark lifestyle, get a Pope elected and get out
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of here anyway. No wine, no fancy food, none of
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that stuff. You get a Oh, and by the way, he
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said every day you have to vote for a new Pope.
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You can't say, well, we're not voting today.
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You must vote every day. And they can vote up to four
17:07
times a day until that 2/3 majority is reached.
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And once you reach that conclave is done.
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And we'll be on our way that way.
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We, you know, we, we, this is the conclave in general as we
17:20
know it today. For the record, the
17:24
reunification with the Greek Orthodox Church didn't really
17:28
work and they did increase papal authority and discipline, but it
17:33
really became the key moment in organizing the Church after the
17:37
chaos of of the 12701268 to 1271 conclave.
17:42
So that was good. Right Now we're headed in the
17:45
right direction with this whole thing.
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Now, again, you could go back to, isn't the Holy Spirit
17:51
supposed to be running this? But it's a human endeavor, so,
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and we could get into the argument about God's will, but
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anytime you've got human beings involved, things are going to
18:03
get crazy. So here we are now the rules are
18:07
set. Cardinals have to be under 80
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years of age. I've always found that one
18:13
interesting because the Catholic Church kind of has a a term
18:20
limit built into this thing. If you're over 80, you can't.
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You don't. Even if you are a cardinal, you
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don't get to vote, you don't get any of that choice.
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There's a maximum of 120 electable electors That was set
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later by Pope Paul the 6th and the, the the conclave now is
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held in the Sistine Chapel with the fresco of the Last
18:40
Judgement, High secrecy, no phones, no contact with the
18:44
outside world. And you're staring up this
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painting the whole time of, you know, essentially the end of
18:50
humanity, the final judgement, where if you screw up and you
18:54
don't do what God says, you're going to hell, right?
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Is it a motivating factor? I don't know.
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When they yell out everyone out, extra ominous, everybody has to
19:07
leave. They seal it up.
19:09
And then each cardinal starts voting.
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They start writing a name. They walk up to the altar.
19:13
They cast their ballot. And they had can can vote up to
19:15
four times per day. Soon as someone gets 2/3 of the
19:19
majority, they have chosen a Pope.
19:24
And that's when the smoke comes in.
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The smoke, The smoke is, of course, black is no decision.
19:29
White is a decision. They had a lot of problems with
19:32
this smoke through the years. It's only been in the last
19:34
probably 50 years that they got that naked out because they
19:37
could. They could use certain chemicals
19:39
to make the smoke a right color. Before then, if the straw was
19:42
wet or something wasn't right, the smoke might have come out
19:47
the wrong color and you'd have problems then.
19:50
But for now, they've got that worked out.
19:53
So there's the good part. The bad parts, of course, are
19:58
there's a lot of history involved in this whole thing and
20:00
it doesn't always go the way it's intent.
20:04
I wonder what kind of campaign has been going on already and
20:07
and probably for years, right? I mean, the Pope was not a young
20:10
guy. It's been happening.
20:13
You don't have to. Have that to be interesting and
20:15
we'll take your calls relating to this as well when we continue
20:19
on Bill Mick live. Call Bill at 321-768-1240 or use
20:25
the Talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
20:29
Richmond transmission and auto service bringing us this hour
20:32
which is Dave does history on bill make live as we look at
20:35
selecting a Pope Dave getting ready to dive into the politics
20:39
of this thing and as with any human venture, I don't care if
20:43
it's business. I don't care if it's being a
20:46
sports official or in a coaches associate, there's politics
20:50
around it all. You better know how they're
20:52
played. Yeah, it's an, it's an amazing
20:55
thing. And I even, you know, having
21:00
grown up in a church and, and being something of a, of a
21:04
theologian and a man of faith myself, I, it's fascinating to
21:07
me the politics that goes into stuff, even even in choosing A
21:12
rabbi for a synagogue, the politics that gets involved is,
21:16
is pretty remarkable. So it's not all that surprising
21:19
then that conclaves have been, well, entertaining, I guess in a
21:27
very games of Thronian kind of way.
21:29
Of course, we're all somewhat familiar from the television
21:32
show with the Borgia, with Rodrigo Borgia and becoming Pope
21:35
Alexander the 6th. There is a lot of accuracy in
21:39
the description of that in his in the TV show where there's a
21:42
lot of bribery going on. There is probably, and I use
21:48
that word very advisedly, probably some homicide going on,
21:54
some murder. There's certainly a lot of that
21:58
kind of intrigue going into a man who really had none of the
22:03
qualifications that you would be looking for in the vicar of
22:06
Christ, you know, actually believing those kinds of things
22:10
that that are in the Scriptures, in the New Testament, keeping
22:13
the vows, those sorts of things. So it was.
22:16
Just more of another medieval Kingdom who happened to have
22:19
control of the church while they're.
22:20
At it's, it's very political because the church in the middle
22:23
medieval period is a political body.
22:26
You're right. I mean, you didn't get to be
22:28
king of a country unless you had the Pope's blessing.
22:32
So there was a lot of those kinds of things going into it.
22:34
There was a lot of conflict between kings and churches and
22:39
some kings supported it. Of course.
22:40
We talked about Henry the eighth during the during the break,
22:44
those chords of things, as we mentioned in 19 O3 Emperor Franz
22:49
Joseph of the Austria Hungary Empire.
22:53
That matters even though he was Austrian, because you know,
22:57
listen to the WTF, you'll get it.
23:00
Hungarians love podcast and Dave played to him this weekend and
23:03
they. They hate Austrians.
23:05
So at any rate, he he took it upon himself to explain to the
23:09
College of Cardinals that there's one cardinal there that
23:12
will not be chosen as Pope. So of course the Cardinals chose
23:16
that cardinal as Pope because they're not going to be pushed
23:19
around by some 2 bed emperor in in Hungary or Austria.
23:24
In 1978. Of course, we saw John Paul the
23:26
second, the first non Italian Pope in 455 years.
23:31
It's a lot of discussion this year about will we see that
23:35
again or will they go back to vests, those kinds of things.
23:37
And of course, in 2013, we had the selection of Pope Francis.
23:42
This was fascinating for me because at the time I was on the
23:44
air bill. And as you know, the station in
23:47
Modesto sits right next to Saint St.
23:51
Stanislaw Catholic Church. Well, it rents its facilities
23:55
from that church, yes. And we were absolutely able to
23:58
have the, the, the father from there come over and be on the
24:01
air and talk about this whole thing.
24:03
And going through that on the day that Francis was chosen, it
24:06
was, it was fascinating. It was interesting.
24:08
And of course, as an outsider watching this, you know,
24:14
sometimes you make assumptions, sometimes you make all these,
24:18
these kind of, you're not certain about things.
24:20
I mean, people come to synagogue, they're not sure how
24:23
to react. I've been to a Catholic Church.
24:26
I'm not sure when I'm supposed to stand up, when I'm supposed
24:28
to sit down. I've seen people come to a
24:31
Methodist Church. They're not sure, you know, what
24:33
page of the hymnal they're supposed to use.
24:35
It is kind of confusing. But at the same time, if it's
24:37
something you're very familiar with, there's a comfort to it
24:40
that that is there. There of course, been oddities
24:43
and conclaves. You've had conclaves to be moved
24:46
right in the middle of the vote. Like I said, the one had three
24:50
years. In 1978, we had a conclave that
24:53
chose a new Pope, and then he turned around and died 26 days
24:57
later. So, you know, it's things happen
25:01
and you got to be ready for it. But it is comforting to know
25:03
that the traditions are there. Now the questions become really
25:09
for those in the audience that are Catholic because neither
25:14
Bill nor I are. What are you looking for in this
25:17
new Pope? Are you looking for a
25:19
politically powerful Pope that's, you know, in the vein of
25:23
Alexander the 6th or Gregory the 10th, someone who is looking to
25:27
establish those kinds of things? Are you looking for somebody
25:28
more like Francis, who comes across as much more humble?
25:33
What are you looking for in this?
25:35
What? How much of this should be
25:37
secret? How much of it should be open?
25:40
And you know, what do you know and what are you?
25:43
What are your favorite memories of kind of anybody actually been
25:46
in the Vatican when this happens?
25:50
If so, we'd love to hear from you. 321-768-1240 or the
25:56
Talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
25:58
We pick it up in a minute on WMMB.
26:02
You mentioned the church that our stations in Modesto rented
26:06
from Dave. I had been to a Catholic funeral
26:09
once, had a friend I refereed basketball with.
26:12
He died in a car wreck very tragically.
26:14
And I went to that Catholic funeral, probably more exercise
26:18
than I'd had in a week, up and down and everything that went
26:20
on. And then went to one Catholic
26:23
service in my life, the the Christmas Eve Mass at that
26:27
church in Modesto. And it was a great service,
26:29
enjoyed everything that went on. They just did a great job with
26:32
it so. I'm a.
26:35
Things to learn here today. I'm a very liturgical person
26:38
myself. It's one of the reasons why I
26:40
appreciate Judaism so much is because of the liturgy.
26:44
And the Catholic liturgy is beautiful, the music is
26:46
fantastic. Don't always understand
26:48
everything that's going on, but sure, enjoy it.
26:51
Yeah. And and hey, this is a learning
26:52
experience for me and I've watched these things through the
26:54
years when they've happened, but it was curiosity and like you
26:58
said, it's secret, not a lot of detail.
27:00
Line one. You're up on Bill Mick live.
27:02
Good morning. Morning, Bill, Ed Melbourne.
27:04
Yeah, Ed, what do you think, man?
27:06
I believe my thoughts are the Pope was a socialist and a
27:12
communist from Argentina. Totally off topic of where we're
27:16
going here, but what do you want to see in a Pope, Ed?
27:19
Are you Catholic #1? Ed, not.
27:22
OK, again, kind of irrelevant to the discussion then let's move
27:27
forward. We're talking about, yeah, Dave
27:30
gets bingo on his bingo card. Thanks, Dave.
27:38
Not being Catholic, I have a curiosity of I would like to see
27:43
this process. Being a politically minded
27:46
person and liking to watch the interaction between people and
27:50
the political interplay, I would like to see that go on.
27:53
I think that's what makes some of the TV and some of the movies
27:55
so interesting. Yeah.
27:56
And of course it's it is intriguing because we do want to
28:00
know these these inside secrets. We all want to know the secrets.
28:04
As I was telling Bill during the break, I grew up in the church,
28:07
the Salvation Army, which actually, surprisingly to
28:10
people, has a similar process for selecting its new leader,
28:15
the general. The difference is the general,
28:17
the previous general doesn't have to die.
28:19
They just serve a fixed term and then they elect a new general or
28:24
they re elect the old general. Anyway, a very similar process.
28:28
And they call it the high council, where it's very
28:29
secretive. And you know, growing up as a
28:32
kid with high councils going on, there was always this, this
28:36
eager anticipation, I guess about it.
28:39
You know, who's going to, who's going to be, who's it going to
28:41
be? What, what are we looking for?
28:42
And of course, there are a lot of discussions right now about
28:46
what we're looking for. I've seen a breakdown of the
28:48
College of Cardinals, you know, hyper conservative,
28:52
conservative, moderate, moderate, left, whatever.
28:56
You got to have 2/3 and no particular group, at least as
29:00
defined, has that 2/3 right now. But with a.
29:06
With AI, wonder what the deals are.
29:08
Yeah, what are the deals to make my guy?
29:11
The guy, right? What do you have to what do you
29:13
have to exchange? What do you have to going to
29:15
tolerate to get your guy in there, to get that guy in there?
29:20
And and you never know what might happen.
29:22
There might be some random event that that ends up, you know, Dan
29:27
Browning, the whole thing, who knows?
29:29
But it it is fascinating to watch.
29:30
And of course, we we all do want to know the.
29:32
Secrets. Yeah, that's true.
29:36
And then there is you want it because it becomes a political
29:43
body, because it's the Congress, if you will.
29:47
You'll wonder about those who've gone in truly, dutifully,
29:54
prayerfully considering what their vote is going to be to
30:01
project God's will on this thing.
30:03
And how frustrated do they get with the politicians around him
30:06
trying to play games to get the. Job, right?
30:08
That's what you hope. You hope that this whole thing
30:10
is very religious. You hope that it's very focused
30:15
on, you know. Circumspect, right?
30:18
But of course it's human nature. And there's a there's a famous
30:20
saying about this whole thing, which of course, you know, these
30:23
Cardinals show up politicking. But the famous saying goes this
30:29
way. He who enters conclave as a Pope
30:34
exits as a cardinal. So don't walk in there thinking
30:38
you're going to be elected. Don't walk in there thinking
30:41
you're the leading guy because you're going to get your, your,
30:44
your ambitions are going to get smashed is what's going to
30:46
happen. I, I think there's something to
30:49
that. And as we watch over the next
30:50
few days, like I said, the funeral is going to be on
30:52
Saturday. Conclave has to start.
30:55
I believe it's within 16 days of the death.
30:58
I don't when they start the conclave, then you're going to
31:02
see a lot of that folks in the, in the, the in front of the
31:06
basilica there. You're going to see them waiting
31:07
for the smoke. You know, I, I kind of got a
31:09
feeling, Bill, that this is actually not going to be that
31:11
long of a conclave. That's just my gut feeling.
31:16
I don't know what. Interesting to think about.
31:18
Yeah, I don't know what makes. Me wonder as well is like
31:21
Congress, do you have the never Francis's guys?
31:26
I mean, you know, the, the, the Never Trumpers who are going to
31:29
be against whatever's going on and what, what quality qualities
31:32
do you look for? Do you look for political
31:34
leadership, administrative leadership?
31:36
Do you, are you looking for spiritual leadership, which is
31:40
what you would think this would be about?
31:42
But look at this massive organization that will run every
31:45
day without a Pope. Only there are certain things
31:48
they can't do. The business of of the Catholic
31:50
Church is going to go on today and.
31:52
Do you really want to be the guy that follows the really humble
31:54
guy who set an example of, you know, living like, like he was
31:59
supposed to? We're going to put in play Pope
32:02
Jimmy, the arrogant bastard. No, that's not the guy you want
32:05
to have. No.
32:07
We'll see what happens. We'll keep an eye on.
32:09
Holy cow, I probably shouldn't have said that.
32:14
Wrong country, Bill, Wrong country.
32:16
We've got face, we've got things to learn, lessons to pick up and
32:23
I hope they do well with this. I really do.
32:25
I'd like to see a big quick 1 and I don't know, not for me to
32:30
impose, but I have what I think would be good for them and
32:34
everybody. And of course that's what we do
32:36
here every day is tell everybody what we think is right and good.
32:40
And that's what you do tomorrow on a wide open Wednesday.
32:42
Richmond Transmission and Auto Service brought you the hour.
32:45
Thank you, Dave. See you in two weeks.
32:46
We'll see you then.