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The Comstock Act and Abortion · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha stuff.
0:07
Speaker 2: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and today we
0:20
Speaker 2: are doing an episode that was originally a Monday Mini
0:23
Speaker 2: but it just got too big about everything that's going on.
0:27
Speaker 2: Are some specific things that are going on, excuse me,
0:30
Speaker 2: with abortion in the United States recently in reproductive rights
0:33
Speaker 2: in the United States, and a lot of it is
0:35
Speaker 2: changing very rapidly. So today, as we record this, the
0:39
Speaker 2: day is March fifth, twenty twenty four. I did write
0:44
Speaker 2: a lot of this about a week ago because again
0:45
Speaker 2: I thought this was going to be a Monday Mini,
0:48
Speaker 2: but I updated it today.
0:50
Speaker 3: So is today sleeper Tuesday? Does that mean things?
0:54
Speaker 1: Does mean things? Oh?
0:57
Speaker 3: Dear? Apparently get donuts. But I think it's really important
1:00
Speaker 3: that I remember this voting season, y'all, and this this
1:03
Speaker 3: should impass. I think most of our listeners already are
1:07
Speaker 3: on point, but just a reminder.
1:09
Speaker 2: This shows why it's so important because a lot of
1:12
Speaker 2: this happened because Trump appointed judges that did what he said.
1:15
Speaker 1: They were going to do.
1:16
Speaker 2: He's pretty much out ban abortion. So YEAP voting does matter.
1:22
Speaker 2: As frustrating as it can be to hear that quick
1:25
Speaker 2: content warning, there's going to be nothing to in depth
1:28
Speaker 2: but mentions of rape and suicide. Also, this is a
1:31
Speaker 2: very US focused episode, but we would love to hear
1:35
Speaker 2: what is going on in the US and around the world,
1:39
Speaker 2: because you know, we're focusing kind of on something pretty
1:42
Speaker 2: specific here, but there's a there's a lot of ground
1:46
Speaker 2: that we have been meaning to talk about and haven't. Yeah,
1:49
Speaker 2: it's because of just scheduling and stuff. So just let
1:52
Speaker 2: us know what's going on for you where you are.
1:55
Speaker 2: And also, this is a primer since it was originally
1:59
Speaker 2: going to be a mini There's a lot more we
2:02
Speaker 2: could go into with all of this, because originally I
2:06
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about the Comstock Act, but it just
2:11
Speaker 2: became difficult to separate that from everything else that's going
2:14
Speaker 2: on and why we need to talk about the Comstock Act. Okay, So,
2:20
Speaker 2: as many of you probably heard, in February twenty twenty four,
2:22
Speaker 2: the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos count as
2:26
Speaker 2: children essentially, Therefore, if they are destroyed for whatever reason,
2:31
Speaker 2: people can be tried for wrongful death of this embryo.
2:35
Speaker 2: This decision obviously has huge ramifications, and it is part
2:39
Speaker 2: of a larger push for so called fetal personhood.
2:44
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that title just oh my god. Yeah, it's
2:48
Speaker 3: so ridiculous that you can't help, but like just scoff.
2:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's been a lot of like you know,
2:56
Speaker 2: in the darkest this dark time, there's been a lot
2:59
Speaker 2: of like those that mean I can ride the carpool
3:02
Speaker 2: like a lot.
3:03
Speaker 3: Videos have been pretty priceless of like treating little little
3:09
Speaker 3: embryo slash peachtree dishes as as children.
3:14
Speaker 2: Yes, right, but states are going forward with this. Fourteen
3:20
Speaker 2: states have introduced fetal personhood pushes or laws, and at
3:26
Speaker 2: least two have been enacted. After this decision, Alabama's fertility
3:31
Speaker 2: clinics were sent into absolute chaos. Like legally, no one
3:35
Speaker 2: was sure what was going on here. The decision did
3:38
Speaker 2: use a lot of Western Christian religious language, which is
3:41
Speaker 2: no surprise. Companies have already stopped shipping frozen embryos and
3:47
Speaker 2: multiple places have stopped all IVF services after this. And
3:53
Speaker 2: just a reminder, all kinds of things might cause someone
3:57
Speaker 2: to seek out IVF, including infertility caused by cancer or
4:00
Speaker 2: a bunch of other stuff, which I think is getting
4:03
Speaker 2: left out a lot of some conversations, but really it
4:06
Speaker 2: shouldn't matter that should just be available to people. The
4:09
Speaker 2: case was brought after some frozen embryos were dropped and
4:12
Speaker 2: the potential parents in question alleged that it constituted wrongful death. Essentially,
4:17
Speaker 2: the parents in question had stopped pursuing IVF, but they
4:22
Speaker 2: wanted their embryos to stay frozen. The patients somehow got
4:26
Speaker 2: into the freezer, touched something and got like freezer burned
4:31
Speaker 2: and knocked over some embryos.
4:32
Speaker 1: And so the.
4:34
Speaker 2: Parents' parents in this question were suing for wrongful death
4:41
Speaker 2: because of that.
4:42
Speaker 3: Oh, so they themselves over because they're not going to
4:46
Speaker 3: be able to get the service at all. Yeah, Oh,
4:51
Speaker 3: they didn't.
4:52
Speaker 1: They get through a lot of people didn't think things through.
4:54
Speaker 3: Which I feel like should be the tagline for any
4:57
Speaker 3: of these flaws, just saying they didn't think this through. No,
5:04
Speaker 3: even people haven't warned them, but they didn't.
5:08
Speaker 2: No, sorry, yes, Well, and then it was so unpopular
5:16
Speaker 2: after this happened, and people were freaking out rightfully so
5:21
Speaker 2: about what it meant that even Trump denounced it. A
5:25
Speaker 2: bunch of other Republicans did too, but these were like
5:29
Speaker 2: Trump appointed judges that made the decision. Amy Cony Barrett
5:34
Speaker 2: is on record supporting an organization that agreed that embryo's
5:37
Speaker 2: constituted his people, so again appointed by Trump. And the
5:40
Speaker 2: sad fact is almost every Republican supports IVF for certain reasons.
5:46
Speaker 2: But they allowed for this to happen and voted for this,
5:50
Speaker 2: like they created the situation with their extremist anti abortionarytoric,
5:54
Speaker 2: like they the environment they've been cultivating allowed for this.
6:00
Speaker 2: And one of the big issues, other than stripping people's
6:03
Speaker 2: rights is just again, legally, how does this look? Because yeah,
6:08
Speaker 2: that means there's a whole freezer of children, I guess,
6:12
Speaker 2: And this means that people have to pay to store
6:16
Speaker 2: them forever.
6:18
Speaker 3: Like, so what happens if I are not viable?
6:21
Speaker 1: We have to you have to keep them so even.
6:24
Speaker 3: Though they can never actually successfully be Yes, true fetuses
6:29
Speaker 3: like just women are all going to be like we're
6:32
Speaker 3: all about to be arrested.
6:35
Speaker 2: I mean yes, because you and I were when we
6:37
Speaker 2: were discussing this. We were talking about which we'll talk
6:40
Speaker 2: about a bit more in a second. There's already this
6:43
Speaker 2: push about using contraceptives is killing children. This could be
6:51
Speaker 2: applied to so many other things. And yes, from what
6:56
Speaker 2: I understand, at least, how the law is now, which
7:00
Speaker 2: they are trying to change because they're all panicking again.
7:04
Speaker 2: Didn't think it through that even if you can't, you
7:08
Speaker 2: just can't throw away a frozen embryo, it doesn't matter
7:11
Speaker 2: whatever the case. So that means that, yes, you have
7:15
Speaker 2: to pay for the storage forever like it will pass
7:17
Speaker 2: on to the kids like actual living kids around their kids,
7:23
Speaker 2: And they don't have an answer for what happens if
7:26
Speaker 2: the entire family line dies out. If like that means
7:28
Speaker 2: the government has to pay for them. Yes, there have
7:34
Speaker 2: been a lot of viral clips of conservatives who championed
7:37
Speaker 2: this ruling realizing in real time when they are saying
7:40
Speaker 2: that they want more kids that A, I guess you
7:42
Speaker 2: have them already a frozen embryos count and that be
7:47
Speaker 2: This directly negatively impacts IVF for people who are actively
7:50
Speaker 2: trying for and desperately want kids. So that's awful, But
7:55
Speaker 2: that is only one piece of the damage here. There
7:58
Speaker 2: are genetic tests that could be affected to some providers
8:00
Speaker 2: will probably stop engaging in IVF altogether because there is
8:03
Speaker 2: a risk of damaging embryos in the process. And we
8:07
Speaker 2: are now talking about a level of control and extremism
8:09
Speaker 2: that reveals that, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about,
8:11
Speaker 2: Like we've already known this, but this is very clear.
8:14
Speaker 2: But apparently they're still realizing it, and they they are
8:20
Speaker 2: with the ones enabling this, and they'll never change their
8:24
Speaker 2: tune because that's just the problem with American politics, Like
8:27
Speaker 2: especially for conservatives who have like held hands with so
8:30
Speaker 2: many dangerous sex to get power, even if their stances
8:34
Speaker 2: are largely unpopular, right like, even if this is largely unpopular.
8:39
Speaker 3: You know, I'm wondering because we've talked about it in
8:41
Speaker 3: our Surrogacy episode a little bit, but a lot of
8:44
Speaker 3: these clinics are money makers, Like this is, yeah, this
8:48
Speaker 3: is gonna hit some businesses pretty hard. I can't imagine
8:54
Speaker 3: as pro capitalists, pro money, pro corporation, that most of
8:59
Speaker 3: these are publics are that they're not going to get
9:02
Speaker 3: some real big like pushback. Yeah the money they're taking away.
9:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we definitely are going to talk about another
9:11
Speaker 2: example of that that is happening. So I mean, don't
9:15
Speaker 2: get me wrong, they are scrambling right now, but they're
9:17
Speaker 2: trying to like they're they're trying to walk this fine
9:21
Speaker 2: line of like, oh well IVF for you know, heterosexual
9:26
Speaker 2: couples only for them, because then that's good.
9:31
Speaker 1: But otherwise no, But then.
9:35
Speaker 2: What about the embryo though, because now you said they're
9:37
Speaker 2: all people, they're all children. Yeah, all right, So one
9:53
Speaker 2: thing is IVF, yes, is very expensive for people who
9:58
Speaker 2: are seeking it out and really shouldn't paused unless that
10:03
Speaker 2: is what the patients want, like, but if you want
10:05
Speaker 2: it to succeed, then it should be paused, which is
10:07
Speaker 2: what is happening right for people in Alabama.
10:10
Speaker 3: Right as from MSNBC, they say as a result of IVF,
10:14
Speaker 3: there are as many as one point five million frozen
10:17
Speaker 3: embryos in the country. The Alabama decision might mean that
10:21
Speaker 3: some of these embryos need to remain frozen forever, at
10:24
Speaker 3: least until someone uses them. Otherwise, anyone who destroys the
10:29
Speaker 3: embryos or even uses them for research could face claims
10:33
Speaker 3: for wrongful death and be liable for millions of dollars
10:36
Speaker 3: in damage.
10:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, and infertility impacts about fifteen percent of US couples,
10:42
Speaker 2: So that's that's pretty big. As I said, infertility is
10:46
Speaker 2: not the only reason people use IVF, but that's still
10:49
Speaker 2: a pretty big number. And yes, I have as I said,
10:52
Speaker 2: I did see a bunch of quote like lighter questions
10:54
Speaker 2: of this ruling, like if embryos count as dependence now,
10:59
Speaker 2: like it just so many impacts that clearly we're not considered.
11:03
Speaker 3: So I mean, at what point can they be charged?
11:05
Speaker 3: Can people be charged with abandonment? And it's never going
11:08
Speaker 3: to be men? So right then? Also it kind of
11:11
Speaker 3: says men are useless because we can't even have children.
11:14
Speaker 1: That's true, so men for I'm sure that was not
11:20
Speaker 1: what they wanted.
11:21
Speaker 3: That's what I'm going to take away from it. That's
11:23
Speaker 3: the that's the highlight.
11:28
Speaker 2: Well, as we've been mentioning, there has been a really
11:31
Speaker 2: big pushback to this, including measures proposed to protect IVF
11:34
Speaker 2: and Alabama like this is ongoing right now, including one
11:37
Speaker 2: that would quote provides civil and criminal immunity to persons
11:41
Speaker 2: providing goods and services related to in vitro fertilization except
11:44
Speaker 2: acts or emission that are intentional and not arising from
11:48
Speaker 2: or related to IVF services, But it does not correct
11:52
Speaker 2: the fundamental underlying problem of fetal personhood. I guess there's
12:00
Speaker 2: states are following suit with this, including Florida, but Florida's
12:03
Speaker 2: Paul's theirs. After what happened in Alabama, and it's really
12:07
Speaker 2: showcased just how tenuous access to reproductive rights have been
12:12
Speaker 2: after the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which is what
12:15
Speaker 2: we were scared of, which is what we were saying.
12:18
Speaker 2: This is part of that, and now we are seeing
12:22
Speaker 2: something else, and it is the return of the Comstock Acts. Yes,
12:29
Speaker 2: which I just remember today. A villain in one of
12:32
Speaker 2: my favorite video games is named Comstock and he's kind
12:35
Speaker 2: of like this, and now I'm.
12:36
Speaker 3: Like, probablyless purposeful, probably was, probably was.
12:41
Speaker 1: The world he created was very bad. I should tell
12:44
Speaker 1: you something. He should be right up there together. I'm
12:47
Speaker 1: just kidding.
12:50
Speaker 2: So, Yes, one of the chilling implications of this and
12:56
Speaker 2: of this conversation and conservative push that has been going
12:58
Speaker 2: on for a while around productive rights concerns the abortion
13:02
Speaker 2: pill and the Comstock Acts, which some ultra conservatives believe
13:05
Speaker 2: bans abortion on a federal level already. So what is
13:10
Speaker 2: the Comstock Act. It is a nineteenth century anti vice
13:14
Speaker 2: law that has now become the center of an anti
13:16
Speaker 2: abortion push to ban the mailing of abortion pills like mifipristone,
13:20
Speaker 2: which is currently used in about half of all abortions
13:23
Speaker 2: in the US. It was passed in eighteen seventy three
13:26
Speaker 2: and was named after a deeply religious anti vice crusader,
13:29
Speaker 2: Anthony Comstock, who was reportedly a serial masturbador and definitely
13:35
Speaker 2: a racist, homophobic, misogynist, And it was designed to prevent
13:39
Speaker 2: the mailing of contraceptives quote obscene, lewde, lascivious, indecent, filthy
13:44
Speaker 2: or vile article, matter, thing, device, or substance, and any
13:47
Speaker 2: quote instrument, substance, drug, medicine, or thing that could aid
13:51
Speaker 2: in an abortion, which was expounded on in nineteen oh nine.
13:56
Speaker 3: Right, I feel like this is one of those the
13:57
Speaker 3: calls coming from inside the house, Joyce.
14:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, okay.
14:03
Speaker 3: So Comstock believed that the mere existence of these things,
14:06
Speaker 3: and even nudity and art was behind all of society's ills. Again,
14:11
Speaker 3: he seems to be flaming victims because he yes, never
14:16
Speaker 3: mind and his own perceived shortcomings. Yes, so they made
14:19
Speaker 3: me sin. He had been quote horrified by the amount
14:23
Speaker 3: of porn and alcohol he saw his fellow soldiers consume.
14:27
Speaker 3: As a Union soldier, so he wanted it all band
14:30
Speaker 3: to sanitize America. But even at that time he was
14:36
Speaker 3: seen as extreme. This was the Victorian era. Just as
14:40
Speaker 3: a reminder, they even had a word to make fun
14:44
Speaker 3: of his intense views, Comstockery.
14:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just to reiterate even at that time they
14:51
Speaker 2: thought he was much.
14:52
Speaker 3: Serial masturbator, which they probably witnessed. Let's just be real clear.
14:59
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:00
Speaker 2: So this term consackery was first popularized by George Bernard Shaw,
15:05
Speaker 2: and it was sort of used by a lot of
15:07
Speaker 2: Europeans to mock what they saw is American backwardness and
15:10
Speaker 2: puritanical nature. So it was at first it was like,
15:13
Speaker 2: what are those Americans doing with their comstockery? But then
15:16
Speaker 2: people start to use it in the US too.
15:19
Speaker 3: So that's I wonder if he has family. I hope
15:22
Speaker 3: they are ashamed. Oh no, I'm sorry. I don't want
15:24
Speaker 3: but I don't know them. They're sure, they're nice people,
15:26
Speaker 3: but I'm wondering they're like, why the did he have
15:28
Speaker 3: to do this? And now our names? Yeah, like caught
15:32
Speaker 3: up in this anyway. So Comstock wrote in his book
15:35
Speaker 3: Traps for the Young quote, the most infamous scoundrel may
15:39
Speaker 3: send the violens matter to the purest boy or girl.
15:42
Speaker 3: And this is being done systematically, Oh dear.
15:47
Speaker 2: Yes, he was allegedly largely influenced by the death of
15:50
Speaker 2: his mother and childbirth, but he had no knowledge of
15:54
Speaker 2: women's bodies, reproductive health, medicine, etc. Uh So yeah. Also
16:00
Speaker 2: of note, given some of his previous quotes, not that
16:04
Speaker 2: I think we should be putting too much stock in Comstock,
16:06
Speaker 2: but he actually wouldn't have been opposed to legal abortion.
16:10
Speaker 2: It was the quote back alley heavy quotes abortions he
16:14
Speaker 2: wanted to stop.
16:14
Speaker 3: When he won abortions because if childbirth was the reason
16:17
Speaker 3: she died, right, not having a child.
16:21
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he did write about it, So I like, again,
16:26
Speaker 2: he was not against abortion person at large, just what
16:32
Speaker 2: he viewed as.
16:35
Speaker 1: Yeah again, heavy quotes back after abortion.
16:37
Speaker 3: But however, he was against the women's suffrage movement, surprise, surprise.
16:43
Speaker 3: And this was a time when a lot of things
16:45
Speaker 3: around gender rolls in the US were in flux. Women
16:48
Speaker 3: pressing for the fight to vote, fighting marital rape and
16:51
Speaker 3: drunkenness with temperance, seeking financial rights, all things that scared
16:55
Speaker 3: people like Comstock when it came to the stability of
16:59
Speaker 3: the family right.
17:01
Speaker 2: Another big factor in this was that generally speaking, abortion
17:04
Speaker 2: was legal in the US until quote quickening are when
17:08
Speaker 2: the pregnant person could feel a fetus move, which was
17:10
Speaker 2: around four or five months. Prior to that, it was
17:13
Speaker 2: generally accepted that pregnant folks could make their own decision,
17:18
Speaker 2: usually involving a midwife who was a woman. This didn't
17:21
Speaker 2: sit well with typically male physicians who wanted that money,
17:27
Speaker 2: so they wanted to drive women out of their profession
17:29
Speaker 2: and consolidate their business make more money. Another was another
17:34
Speaker 2: fact is that Anglo Saxon women white women weren't having
17:37
Speaker 2: as many babies, so you get Comstock coming out of
17:39
Speaker 2: the woods, like, whoa, that's my impression of Comstock, right.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:49
Speaker 2: Still, that didn't stop Comstock from convincing Congress with a
17:52
Speaker 2: collection of quote obscene items and materials that he called
17:56
Speaker 2: his Chamber of Horrors to pass the COMPS Acts, and
18:01
Speaker 2: he was granted the role of special Agent at the
18:03
Speaker 2: US Post Office so that he could monitor the mail legally.
18:08
Speaker 2: Thousands were prosecuted, subject to fines, jail time, or labor.
18:11
Speaker 2: It could be for something like a letter that you
18:13
Speaker 2: sent to your spouse. Some died by suicide and one
18:17
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty tons of literature was confiscated and destroyed.
18:21
Speaker 2: This was something he bragged about before he died. In
18:24
Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen of notes towards like obscenity were not defined
18:28
Speaker 2: and left to people like Comstock to determine. Which is great,
18:31
Speaker 2: That's just great.
18:32
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a similar story to what's
18:34
Speaker 3: happening with the Florida governor. Like he's having to backtrack
18:38
Speaker 3: a little bit, and this is his legend because he's
18:40
Speaker 3: the one that's doing the same nonsense today. You know
18:45
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like Desantas is doing like we got
18:48
Speaker 3: to make sure we were protecting our children. There's so
18:51
Speaker 3: many obscenities, and now he's having to back up. We're like, well,
18:53
Speaker 3: wha what It didn't mean this much. I'm just kidding
18:55
Speaker 3: because he knows he's about to be placed in history
18:58
Speaker 3: at this level.
19:00
Speaker 2: Right, right, I mean I hope so. But Comstart seemed
19:05
Speaker 2: real proud of it.
19:06
Speaker 3: Right. Maybe he's learning, but but h.
19:22
Speaker 2: In eighteen seventy eight, Comstock had Madame Restell, a well
19:26
Speaker 2: known abortion provider, arrested. She died by suicide, and to
19:31
Speaker 2: do all this he worked with the police and the YMCA,
19:34
Speaker 2: which formed the New York Society for the Suppression of
19:37
Speaker 2: Vice in part in order to enforce this act and
19:40
Speaker 2: their logo literally features some man burning books.
19:44
Speaker 3: Again, I feel like that could be also representation. So
19:51
Speaker 3: in nineteen fifteen, reproductive rights activist Mary where Dennett was
19:55
Speaker 3: charged with violating the Comstock Act after distributing pamphlets about
19:59
Speaker 3: sex education, even though she included this quote. At present, unfortunately,
20:04
Speaker 3: it is against the law to give people information as
20:06
Speaker 3: to how to manage their sex relations so that no
20:09
Speaker 3: baby will be created. This was overturned in a historic
20:12
Speaker 3: landmark free speech case. Kind of good.
20:15
Speaker 2: I want to come back to that because I was surprised.
20:18
Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be a worse outcome.
20:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, I want to come back to that. But
20:22
Speaker 2: just a note, famous artworks and books like Ulysses were
20:25
Speaker 2: subject to this act, and so Ulysses Americans would like
20:29
Speaker 2: get it contraband from Europe because it was like a
20:32
Speaker 2: hugely popular book and you couldn't get it in the
20:34
Speaker 2: US because of this Comstock Act. So it had a
20:38
Speaker 2: far reaching impact, but it hasn't really been enforced since
20:43
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties when judges argued that the language was
20:46
Speaker 2: way too broad and could literally ban things like surgical gloves.
20:50
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen thirty six it was further specified
20:53
Speaker 2: that the Comstock Act referred only to illegal items used
20:57
Speaker 2: for an abortion. In the seventies, contraceptives was removed from
21:02
Speaker 2: the language of the Acts.
21:03
Speaker 1: And the passing of Roe v.
21:04
Speaker 2: Wade basically rendered it inert. The nineteen sixty five case
21:09
Speaker 2: Griswold versus Connecticut had previously weakened it, ruling that contraception
21:13
Speaker 2: was legal for married couples because before they could technically
21:16
Speaker 2: get prison time forgetting it. So now Roe v. Wade
21:22
Speaker 2: has been overturned and a lot of these protections went
21:24
Speaker 2: away again. Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization, which led
21:29
Speaker 2: to rose overturning, was mentioned in the Alabama court ruling
21:32
Speaker 2: about IVF fifteen times. Now, anti abortion crusaders are looking
21:38
Speaker 2: to use Roe v. Wade not being there to bring
21:41
Speaker 2: the Comstock Acts back. In fact, after Rose overturned, the
21:45
Speaker 2: Biden administration officially released a memo saying the Comstock Act
21:49
Speaker 2: does not apply to abortion bills, which it doesn't like
21:52
Speaker 2: even as it is now because they've updated it, but
21:56
Speaker 2: they're still looking to change it and use it. In
22:00
Speaker 2: April twenty twenty three, a federal judge appointed by Trump
22:03
Speaker 2: and Texas ruled that when the FDA approved mifipristone two
22:07
Speaker 2: decades ago, they did so illegally, pointing to what they
22:11
Speaker 2: called serious safety concerns, which he has is bull The
22:15
Speaker 2: Biden administration and the judge. Manufacturer appealed, we've talked about
22:19
Speaker 2: this before. At the same time, a judge in Washington
22:23
Speaker 2: ruled that the government must allow for access to this drug.
22:26
Speaker 2: Attorney generals and over twenty states have warned companies like
22:30
Speaker 2: Walgreens and CBS they could get in legal trouble if
22:33
Speaker 2: they mailed the drug. The same judge from the Texas
22:36
Speaker 2: ruling Casmeric claimed that fathers have the constitutional right to
22:42
Speaker 2: control their daughter's access to birth controls.
22:46
Speaker 3: Which were the mother, even though the matriarch is supposed
22:49
Speaker 3: to be raising the children.
22:51
Speaker 2: Hey, it is very strange from Fox who's a quote?
22:56
Speaker 2: Because Marek has claimed that being transgender is a quote
22:58
Speaker 2: mental disorder and that gay people are disordered. In a
23:02
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen article, he denounced a so called sexual revolution,
23:05
Speaker 2: which sought public affirmation of the lie that the human
23:08
Speaker 2: person is an autonomous blob of silly putty, unconstrained by
23:12
Speaker 2: nature our biology, and that marriage, sexuality, gender identity, and
23:16
Speaker 2: even the unborn child must yield to the erotic desires
23:19
Speaker 2: of liberated adults. So this is what we're talking about.
23:23
Speaker 2: The people who are making these rulings here what they think.
23:28
Speaker 3: And for him to name children as like being erotic
23:31
Speaker 3: for adults again, I'm like, I'm really thinking you might
23:34
Speaker 3: be telling on yourself, which is what we see too often.
23:39
Speaker 1: We do, indeed, we do.
23:40
Speaker 2: Indeed, So that whole this whole thing started after a
23:47
Speaker 2: drag fundraising event to prevent LGBTQ plus suicide was shut
23:51
Speaker 2: down and the students running the event sued, saying it
23:54
Speaker 2: infringed on their First Amendment free speech rights. But this
23:58
Speaker 2: judge argued there was a historical legal president against sexualized speech,
24:04
Speaker 2: citing the Comstock Act. YEP, a different guy in Texas
24:09
Speaker 2: again this I was like, this is a story for
24:11
Speaker 2: another episode. But briefly, he led this charge to make
24:14
Speaker 2: his city a quote sanctuary for the unborn and twenty nineteen,
24:19
Speaker 2: which was unanimously agreed upon amongst the all male votees.
24:24
Speaker 2: As part of the effort, he contacted attorney Jonathan Mitchell and,
24:28
Speaker 2: according to Miss Magazine quote, Mitchell submitted an amachust cure.
24:32
Speaker 2: A friend of the court brief in Dabbs on behalf
24:35
Speaker 2: of Texas Right to Life, which he denied that women
24:38
Speaker 2: need access to abortion in order to have control over
24:40
Speaker 2: their reproductive lives, arguing instead that they can simply refrain
24:44
Speaker 2: from having sex. This was also a part of the
24:48
Speaker 2: whole bounty hunter thing in Texas that rewards people for
24:51
Speaker 2: reporting anyone even remotely potentially involved in an abortion.
24:56
Speaker 1: Yep.
24:58
Speaker 2: The quote continues as Mitchell expounded to a town commission
25:02
Speaker 2: meeting in Edgewood, New Mexico. Such a victory quote would
25:05
Speaker 2: be a defeat far more catastrophic than dabs for the
25:08
Speaker 2: supporters of abortion access. A ruling of that sort would
25:11
Speaker 2: effectively ban abortion nationwide, making it possible for abortions to
25:15
Speaker 2: be performed even in blue states, because even though the
25:19
Speaker 2: Comstock law does not ban abortion literally, it bans the
25:22
Speaker 2: shipment or receipt of any abortion related equipment. This ruling
25:26
Speaker 2: was limited to mifipristone, but providers did say that they
25:30
Speaker 2: would pivot to another drug, misaprostol, if necessary, which is
25:33
Speaker 2: typically prescribed for things like stomach ulcers but can be
25:37
Speaker 2: used for abortions. Also safe. However, it's also under a threat.
25:41
Speaker 3: Right so from the Guardian, But in practice, a ban
25:46
Speaker 3: on sending abortion tools through the mail or commercial transit
25:49
Speaker 3: is a ban on having those abortion tools altogether, both
25:52
Speaker 3: for medical and surgical abortions. After all, the pharmacists who
25:55
Speaker 3: dispense abortion pills at a CVS or a community clinic,
25:59
Speaker 3: even in illegal state, does not manufacture the medicines herself.
26:03
Speaker 3: She receives them in a shipment from a pharmaceutical distributor,
26:06
Speaker 3: usually in the mail or in the delivery shipment. Similarly,
26:09
Speaker 3: the doctor, nurse or midwife who performs a dilation and
26:12
Speaker 3: a cure tach surgical abortion does not weld her own
26:15
Speaker 3: speculums or forge her own cures. She does not manufacture
26:19
Speaker 3: her own syringes to administer antibiotics or painkillers, and she
26:23
Speaker 3: does not mold her own plastic hot water bottles to
26:27
Speaker 3: give to her patients for aftercare. She buys these as
26:30
Speaker 3: she buys all other medical supplies, through the system of
26:33
Speaker 3: commerce through which Americans fulfill most of their knees and
26:36
Speaker 3: conduct most of their lives. It is the anti choice
26:39
Speaker 3: movements aimed to remove abortion from that system of normal commerce,
26:44
Speaker 3: requiring providers to create alternative supply chairs the same way
26:49
Speaker 3: the anti choice movement has removed abortion from the broader
26:52
Speaker 3: system of normal medicine, requiring providers to create alternative clinics.
26:57
Speaker 3: The anti choice movement wouldn't need an Act of Congress
27:01
Speaker 3: or even a judicial ruling. All it would need is
27:05
Speaker 3: to say it was enforcing a law already on the books.
27:08
Speaker 2: Right, which is why we've heard Republicans start to bring
27:12
Speaker 2: up the Comstock Act more and more because this is
27:15
Speaker 2: what they're talking about doing. Just a reminder, all of
27:19
Speaker 2: this is hugely unpopular. A majority of American support access
27:23
Speaker 2: to safe abortions. The Comstock Act was hugely unpopular even then,
27:29
Speaker 2: but he got it through using the same tactics that
27:32
Speaker 2: we're seeing now. Also, I know we say this every time,
27:34
Speaker 2: but those drugs we've been discussing are safe. They've been
27:37
Speaker 2: proven safe.
27:37
Speaker 3: They're safe, They're completely completely safe. Literally the level of
27:42
Speaker 3: side effugs is along with Thailand all.
27:44
Speaker 2: Yes, completely safe, and you can still get them.
27:51
Speaker 1: So don't don't think that that's what we're saying.
27:55
Speaker 2: That's just something we need to be vigilant about because
27:59
Speaker 2: this is what they're they're looking at doing. There is
28:02
Speaker 2: a push to repeal the Comstock Acts, but given our
28:07
Speaker 2: current political climate, it's an uphill battle. And another note,
28:12
Speaker 2: it wouldn't ban abortion drugs outright, it would just pretty
28:16
Speaker 2: much again they're not thinking this through because you use
28:18
Speaker 2: surgical gloves for other things like but it would make
28:23
Speaker 2: it very, very very difficult to get them. And this
28:26
Speaker 2: is all connected. This is all linked, like what we've
28:28
Speaker 2: been talking about, banning books, banning abortion, the role of police,
28:31
Speaker 2: the role of surveillance, like this is what we're saying
28:34
Speaker 2: when we talk about intersectional feminism and why it is
28:36
Speaker 2: all connected. And on top of that, it is really
28:40
Speaker 2: distressing that we've gotten these numbers about burst from rapes
28:43
Speaker 2: because people were not able to access abortion, which is
28:46
Speaker 2: frightening in terms of lack of access, but also in
28:49
Speaker 2: what it suggests about rape numbers. And you know, to
28:55
Speaker 2: be clear, if you want an abortion, a safe abortion,
28:58
Speaker 2: you should be able to get one. This is very
29:00
Speaker 2: troubling data. But there have been some wins for reproductive
29:07
Speaker 2: rights in the US, including in conservative states and elsewhere,
29:11
Speaker 2: because of people doing the work and fighting back. So
29:13
Speaker 2: that's something else like it can be very disheartening to
29:19
Speaker 2: hear something like this, and it is it is, but
29:24
Speaker 2: there are also so many people fighting and who aren't
29:27
Speaker 2: giving up and who are doing these things, and it
29:29
Speaker 2: does matter, so keep that in mind. And also outside
29:33
Speaker 2: of the US, for instance, France just enshrined abortion rights
29:38
Speaker 2: into their constitution in March of twenty twenty four. As
29:40
Speaker 2: we record this, and a lot of people said that
29:44
Speaker 2: we're interviewed about it that in part.
29:46
Speaker 1: After seeing what happened in the US.
29:47
Speaker 3: So exactly, Yep, we're a cautionary tell wonderful.
29:51
Speaker 2: Wonderful Yes. As we said at the top, I'm sure
29:57
Speaker 2: we'll be revisiting this a lot. There's a lot of
30:01
Speaker 2: that we need to go back to that's happened around
30:03
Speaker 2: abortion in the US. But also, listeners, if you have
30:06
Speaker 2: any resources, if you live anywhere in the US or
30:12
Speaker 2: outside of the US, where you've been involved in something
30:15
Speaker 2: around abortion, or there's something going on you think we
30:18
Speaker 2: should know about, please please please let us know.
30:21
Speaker 1: That is so.
30:21
Speaker 2: Valuable to us. You can email U at Stephania mom
30:25
Speaker 2: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
30:27
Speaker 2: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
30:29
Speaker 2: that stuff. I never told you. We have a tea
30:31
Speaker 2: public store and we have a book that has a
30:33
Speaker 2: whole chapter on abortion productive rights that you can get
30:38
Speaker 2: wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
30:41
Speaker 2: super ducer Christina, executive ducer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
30:44
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stefan ever
30:46
Speaker 2: told you the prodection of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
30:48
Speaker 2: my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
30:50
Speaker 2: app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite show