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The typical traits of the Rich 250 in 2026 · The Money Puzzle

0:10
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm
0:13
Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. Now tomorrow Friday. The Rich
0:18
Speaker 1: two fifty, the nation's Rich list, is published by The Australian,
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Speaker 1: and I want to ask my special guest, John Stencil,
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Speaker 1: who is the editor of The Rich two fifty, what
0:30
Speaker 1: the traits are in common? What traits do these people,
0:34
Speaker 1: these two hundred and fifty people who have amassed enormous fortunes,
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Speaker 1: what do they have in common? And we're going to
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Speaker 1: map those traits against particular characters who've arrived on the list.
0:45
Speaker 1: It's going to be fascinating. It always is when I
0:47
Speaker 1: have you on the show. John, How are you very well? James,
0:50
Speaker 1: very well. You're in your nationwide multi state publicity carnival
0:55
Speaker 1: what you do each year for the Rich too fifty,
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Speaker 1: which is great. And I've got the magazine in front
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Speaker 1: of me. You can hear me leafing through the pages here,
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Speaker 1: the gloss the glossy pages, folks of the magazine, which
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Speaker 1: comes out as I say, today, Friday, the twentieth of March. Now, John,
1:11
Speaker 1: I mean you you're much deeper into this, but certain
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Speaker 1: sort of commonality sort of struck me. A psychotic approach
1:18
Speaker 1: to work, That's definitely one. We'll talk about that in
1:21
Speaker 1: the moment. Who might sort of come to the party
1:23
Speaker 1: on that one? A few other things though, Like I mean,
1:25
Speaker 1: was there it seems to me behind the behind the lines,
1:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot of couples that now was there always
1:31
Speaker 1: a lot of couples that start with that one? The
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Speaker 1: sort of that maybe a trait? Will you tell me?
1:37
Speaker 1: But is it a trait that it's often now and
1:40
Speaker 1: more often now couple power really at the top end
1:44
Speaker 1: of the list, especially with the newer you know, once
1:46
Speaker 1: upon a time it was always jackal John was inveriably male,
1:49
Speaker 1: and I see that more and more of the newer
1:51
Speaker 1: entries are couples and declared as such.
1:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's the couples that go into
1:55
Speaker 2: business together, right, So the husband and wafted you as
1:58
Speaker 2: usually and they well, it seems to be so far
2:02
Speaker 2: that their marriages or their partnership survive and their business
2:06
Speaker 2: partnerships survive as well. So look, there's probably ups and
2:09
Speaker 2: downs in both, right, but yeah, there's definitely the case
2:11
Speaker 2: when Canva is the clear example with Melanie Perkins in
2:13
Speaker 2: cliff over Breath. They have an incredible global business. But
2:17
Speaker 2: there is some others as well that are coming through,
2:20
Speaker 2: like Daniel and Georgia Kontos, which is White Fox boutique. James,
2:24
Speaker 2: you are, you're a fashionable fellow, but I don't know
2:26
Speaker 2: if you are aware of all.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm head to two and fight Fox. No I'm not,
2:30
Speaker 1: but I do see the advertising John and so.
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Speaker 2: They're literally working together and you know, obviously in the
2:36
Speaker 2: cases of the contost is buying huge mansions together, two
2:39
Speaker 2: to live in. So look, that's the ultimates of work
2:42
Speaker 2: home balance or something like that, work and life balance.
2:44
Speaker 1: So that's yeah.
2:45
Speaker 2: Look, there's always been people who have gone into partnership
2:48
Speaker 2: in business, you know, whether it's your business partners, right,
2:50
Speaker 2: co CEOs or co founders. There's a lot of those,
2:53
Speaker 2: but there's an increasing amount of marriages that definitely bleed
2:55
Speaker 2: into business too.
2:57
Speaker 1: And mail coppers. You know, I searched like Mike cannon
3:00
Speaker 1: Brooks and Scott Farkhar obviously at the very top there.
3:03
Speaker 1: And it's interesting some of the older people on the
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Speaker 1: list as well. So there is that I suppose support
3:11
Speaker 1: from a partner, but I mentioned at the start of
3:13
Speaker 1: the cycle work ethic. You've got a profile of this guy.
3:18
Speaker 1: He is in Florida, Gowana funds management. Tell us about
3:24
Speaker 1: him and tell us about his regime, which I must
3:27
Speaker 1: say I would love to invest in him. I don't
3:30
Speaker 1: know if he'd be much fun to be with, really,
3:33
Speaker 1: since he works from he says from four in the
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Speaker 1: morning till six in the evening, three hundred and sixty
3:39
Speaker 1: four days a year, and kind of cools it off
3:41
Speaker 1: a bit on Christmas Day. Tell us about him.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he makes Christmas lunch at James. But yeah, the
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Speaker 2: guy's name is Robert Hillmer, and I'm really really fruscinated
3:49
Speaker 2: with him because he's he's gone to America and made
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Speaker 2: a success of himself. Right, he's in funds management, going
3:54
Speaker 2: to capital. He invests in a lot of early stage
3:57
Speaker 2: or pre IPO tech companies. So obviously there's been a
3:59
Speaker 2: lot of those that have gone extremely well. But he's
4:03
Speaker 2: clearly a very regimented and disciplined person and he calls
4:06
Speaker 2: it his foundation of success. Now, what's the foundation of success?
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Speaker 2: He gets up at four o'clock pretty much walks out
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Speaker 2: the door straight away. No shower, doesn't check his forwhad
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Speaker 2: you know? People work up and they check their phone
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Speaker 2: and check their stocks or whatever they do. He doesn't
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Speaker 2: do that. He gets up, he's out the door within
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Speaker 2: five minutes. He's got the same clothes laid out every day,
4:27
Speaker 2: you know, so sneakers now he's in Florida, right, so shorts,
4:30
Speaker 2: t shirt. He's also in the tech world. So he's
4:33
Speaker 2: looking pretty cool too. How he goes gets to the office. Now,
4:36
Speaker 2: this is when he starts working. But the difference is
4:39
Speaker 2: that he's doing it between the hot it's the hot
4:41
Speaker 2: and cold treatment, right, So he's got the infrared going
4:44
Speaker 2: and he gets into the sauna. But because he's got
4:46
Speaker 2: the Wi Fi in there, and even if he's sitting
4:48
Speaker 2: there in four four degrees sort of cool, you know,
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Speaker 2: he's still checking his phone then and he's working then.
4:54
Speaker 2: So so he's got that sort.
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Speaker 1: Of physical it's working in disauna.
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Speaker 2: He's got the physical discipline to do that.
5:00
Speaker 1: And he works from four and the more until six
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Speaker 1: in the evening. It's amazing, isn't it? But you know,
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Speaker 1: I wonder what do you think of this? I do
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Speaker 1: think that people who work like that, and we can
5:10
Speaker 1: map this onto our listeners. By that, I mean we
5:13
Speaker 1: don't all have to make eight hundred million or eighty million.
5:16
Speaker 1: But it does strike me if you work like that.
5:18
Speaker 1: I see little shops around the city and sometimes you
5:24
Speaker 1: see a shop and you say, oh, that's not going
5:26
Speaker 1: to work, and then it surprises you and then you
5:28
Speaker 1: realize the person is there every day down't to dusk.
5:32
Speaker 1: They never chose. Sometimes they work Saturday six days. I
5:35
Speaker 1: can think of people who work six and a half days,
5:37
Speaker 1: and I think in a way, if you work like that,
5:40
Speaker 1: you're unlikely to fail really, and then these guys maybe
5:43
Speaker 1: parlay it at an extraordinary exponential level. So there's that
5:47
Speaker 1: really extraordinarily hard work and resilience as it seems to
5:50
Speaker 1: be a common trait. You have Roberts there as well,
5:54
Speaker 1: and that's an interesting story. Just tell us a little
5:56
Speaker 1: bit about that aspect of hard work and resilience with him,
5:59
Speaker 1: because he was in some way it's a lucky He
6:02
Speaker 1: was a lucky guy. He was a door he was
6:04
Speaker 1: the son of a tycoon. He need not have worked
6:07
Speaker 1: as he does work. Tell us a little about him
6:09
Speaker 1: and who he is.
6:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tim Roberts. He's the son of John Roberts, a
6:12
Speaker 2: Multiplex founder. So Multiplex big and massive construction company that
6:15
Speaker 2: was founded in Perth by his late father. Back in
6:17
Speaker 2: the day. They pretty well known for constructing the Wembley Stadium,
6:21
Speaker 2: the new Wembley Stadium in London and actually losing because
6:23
Speaker 2: the disaster, losing a bit of doe on that, and
6:25
Speaker 2: the family themselves actually were well, you know, they felt
6:28
Speaker 2: bad about it, so to speak, and they put in
6:29
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars of their own money to sort of
6:31
Speaker 2: you know, shore it up. Yeah. Look, Tim, he doesn't
6:34
Speaker 2: need to work, you right, He's got Warburton, which is
6:36
Speaker 2: his investment and sort of philanthropic business. He broke his
6:40
Speaker 2: private jet deals, He's invested in a lot of companies.
6:42
Speaker 2: He does a lot of private equity and other investment stuff.
6:45
Speaker 2: So look, he's someone that sort of jets around as
6:47
Speaker 2: well literally and also does a lot of philanthropic stuff
6:50
Speaker 2: back in Perth. Now, you know, the telephon's a huge
6:52
Speaker 2: thing in Perth. Kerry Stokes runs and Kerry's actually but
6:55
Speaker 2: you know, said some very kind things about Tim. He's
6:58
Speaker 2: got a bit of a mixed reputation. But I think
7:00
Speaker 2: a Kidney's story in the addition sort of draws out,
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Speaker 2: you know, a bit of the sort of good side
7:03
Speaker 2: about him and a bit of that sort of you know,
7:05
Speaker 2: hard work side too.
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Speaker 1: But it's interesting that he has a deeper ethic when
7:12
Speaker 1: it was entirely unnecessary, you might say, financially.
7:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, I think another on that, James, And maybe
7:18
Speaker 2: there's a bit of you know, proving yourself too, Like
7:20
Speaker 2: I mean, you'd know that, you know, the famous Richard
7:22
Speaker 2: Pratt stories of him always walking the factory floors are busy.
7:25
Speaker 2: What was it He'd always be in there at five o'clock.
7:28
Speaker 2: So his son Anthony made sure that you get up
7:30
Speaker 2: and be in there at four o'clock. Or that's probably
7:33
Speaker 2: you know, not quite getting the timing right, But there's
7:35
Speaker 2: always that as well, So you know, I think sort
7:37
Speaker 2: of probably there's a lot of people in that next
7:39
Speaker 2: generation that feel they need to prove themselves and just
7:42
Speaker 2: be slightly better at it, if that makes sense.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's another driver, because I mean, at a point,
7:48
Speaker 1: what's fascinating I think about the rich list to us
7:52
Speaker 1: is they go way beyond the point of fortune or
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Speaker 1: how much you need or even an impressive fortune or
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Speaker 1: fortune by us Australian standards. What's the entry dollar level
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Speaker 1: this year?
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Speaker 2: Just to me seven and fifty millionimes.
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Speaker 1: Seven hundred fifty to get on the list. Seven hundred
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Speaker 1: and fifty million, rock bottom. You scrape in at the bottom. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So let's just keep going on the straight. So we
8:15
Speaker 1: talked about work, We talked about resilience, We talked about
8:20
Speaker 1: support in the way of a partner, and increasing and
8:22
Speaker 1: increasingly maybe it was always there, but an increasingly public
8:27
Speaker 1: dimension of rich Lister's confidence. Now this is the quality
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Speaker 1: I think that sets them apart, this extraordinary confidence. I
8:36
Speaker 1: want to zone in on two guys that I never
8:39
Speaker 1: heard of before. The is it? Are they Roberts as well?
8:43
Speaker 2: Then?
8:44
Speaker 1: Yes, ir e N. Tell us about ir e N
8:47
Speaker 1: because we all know next TC, but the next the
8:51
Speaker 1: next d C story as a data center AI driven
8:56
Speaker 1: next CC is just ticking along compared to these guys.
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Speaker 1: Tell us there and story.
9:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they originally started as a pitcoin mining company
9:03
Speaker 2: and listened on the NASDAQ only a couple of years
9:06
Speaker 2: in new existence. This is a few years ago now.
9:09
Speaker 2: They jumped the AX and they had that confidence to
9:12
Speaker 2: sort of take it globally and they identified data center
9:15
Speaker 2: sites or places they could build these data centers in
9:18
Speaker 2: North America and they've gone to some really obscure places
9:21
Speaker 2: in British Columbia and Canada and Texas as well.
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Speaker 1: But that was their brilliance, right, that was the brilliance.
9:27
Speaker 1: So explain why that was the strategy that made them.
9:34
Speaker 1: How much are they worth?
9:35
Speaker 2: They're worth, yeah, they're worth, but nine hundred and fifty
9:37
Speaker 2: million combined. So this is share price stuff, right, Yeah,
9:41
Speaker 2: this is like.
9:42
Speaker 1: A billionaire brother two brothers that no one knows, so
9:46
Speaker 1: most people don't know. But explain how they did it,
9:49
Speaker 1: what that strategy was.
9:50
Speaker 2: Well, that's literally going when no one's gone before, so
9:52
Speaker 2: to speak. So you know, they find places small towns,
9:56
Speaker 2: for example in Canada where they might have been a
9:58
Speaker 2: paper mill that's closed down and that we're using you know,
10:00
Speaker 2: sort of hydro power for that. And so they go
10:03
Speaker 2: and build a data center and tap into that renewable
10:05
Speaker 2: power if you want to call it. Or there's excess
10:08
Speaker 2: supply of electricity you know in particular places in Texas,
10:11
Speaker 2: so they go and build a data center there and
10:14
Speaker 2: sort of tap so that what they're saying is they're
10:17
Speaker 2: not necessarily sarily taking the energy from you know, households
10:20
Speaker 2: and so on it. So they're building it in these
10:22
Speaker 2: places where you know they're a long way, but you
10:24
Speaker 2: know you can transport the power, you know, back to
10:27
Speaker 2: where it needs to go. And obviously you've got to
10:28
Speaker 2: do the deals with the Hyperscalers and Microsoft's are the
10:31
Speaker 2: metas of the world as well. So but they, Yeah,
10:34
Speaker 2: a couple of Australian brothers. You know, they grew up
10:37
Speaker 2: they've worked at Macquarie, so they've got that Mcquarie sort
10:40
Speaker 2: of deal making ethos as well. I think that's really
10:42
Speaker 2: stood them in good stead. And you know, they know infrastructure,
10:45
Speaker 2: they know, you know, they know where there's excess capacity
10:48
Speaker 2: that they can tap into, and they've had that confidence
10:50
Speaker 2: to literally go, as I said, where no one's gone before.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they have this hyper confidence. These Hyperscalers, they
10:58
Speaker 1: have the resilience. And we talk about the work ethic
11:02
Speaker 1: on other I want to just one or two other
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Speaker 1: lines I think that may have in common which are
11:07
Speaker 1: really worth exploring. We'll come back to it after the break.
11:09
Speaker 1: One of them is obviously the capacity to make deals,
11:12
Speaker 1: but others are quite practical, aren't they that anyone could
11:15
Speaker 1: apply to anyone listening to the show, Which is like
11:17
Speaker 1: keeping things really tight budgeting ruthlessly, which very few of
11:21
Speaker 1: us do what I expect. We'll be back in a moment. Hello,
11:31
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby.
11:35
Speaker 1: Welcome aboard again everybody. I am talking to. John Stencil Too,
11:39
Speaker 1: is the editor of The Australian's Richest two point fifty,
11:43
Speaker 1: which is out on Friday, the twentieth of March. Every
11:48
Speaker 1: year is different. We're going to talk in a minute
11:50
Speaker 1: about the sort of big picture of the helicopter review
11:52
Speaker 1: of the list, because it actually tells us quite a lot,
11:54
Speaker 1: I think as investors as well. But I wanted to
11:56
Speaker 1: just finish off on this John about particular traits, the
12:00
Speaker 1: traits we see that are common to the people on
12:04
Speaker 1: this list, to or two hundred and fifty of them
12:07
Speaker 1: and their partners. I'm surprised. One of the things is
12:11
Speaker 1: like this kind of ruthlessness in budgeting. And I'm thinking
12:15
Speaker 1: of people like Mike canon Brooks at at Lassie and
12:18
Speaker 1: Richard White at wise Tech and how tough they are
12:23
Speaker 1: and making quick decisions like they have five thousands of
12:26
Speaker 1: people this year. Haven't they explained little about what's going
12:28
Speaker 1: on with those guys.
12:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, so lastly in yeah, that was last week actually,
12:32
Speaker 2: they talked about that they need to get rid of
12:34
Speaker 2: sack sixteen hundred people. Richard White did the same thing
12:37
Speaker 2: at wires Tech a couple of weeks earlier, two thousand people.
12:40
Speaker 2: So yeah, what are we talking about three three, three
12:42
Speaker 2: and a half, three thousand, six hundred people. That's yeah,
12:44
Speaker 2: it's that's cost cutting and that's keeping it now, keeping
12:48
Speaker 2: a tight reigin on costs. So that's I think that's
12:51
Speaker 2: the that's that discipline to know, you know what the
12:54
Speaker 2: bottom line is, you know what's on your balance sheet,
12:56
Speaker 2: and to see where trends are going. Now. You could
12:58
Speaker 2: argue with both of them, giving that they share is down,
13:00
Speaker 2: that they have been a little bit slow to move
13:02
Speaker 2: on that front. But they've moved now, and they've moved
13:05
Speaker 2: very quickly. And it's probably an argument without lassing that
13:08
Speaker 2: there may be the market hasn't rewarded them yet for
13:11
Speaker 2: not cutting deeply enough. But yes, so there's a real
13:14
Speaker 2: tight rain on costs, and I think there's that's a
13:17
Speaker 2: trait that's common with a lot of these people in
13:19
Speaker 2: business that are on the list that you have, you know,
13:22
Speaker 2: maybe retail businesses. Thinking like a Jack Cowen, for example,
13:25
Speaker 2: who knows exactly what's going on at Hungry Jacks when
13:28
Speaker 2: it comes to all the input costs. He's talking out
13:31
Speaker 2: Global Food Forum in the last couple of days with
13:33
Speaker 2: the Australian about you know, he knows what's going on
13:35
Speaker 2: with Fuelly, knows what's going on when all the sort
13:37
Speaker 2: of inputs that go in there so so tight rain
13:39
Speaker 2: on costs. And it's that ability to move quickly when
13:42
Speaker 2: you need to cut unfortunately and cut jobs and things
13:45
Speaker 2: like that as well.
13:46
Speaker 1: And this sort of snapshot obviously all the time in
13:51
Speaker 1: their heads basically of the budget that they have for
13:54
Speaker 1: their own businesses. Regardless of the scared of those businesses.
13:57
Speaker 2: I think a lot of them, all of them just
13:59
Speaker 2: about would be very very comgnizant of what's on their
14:01
Speaker 2: balance sheet at all times when it comes to either
14:03
Speaker 2: their businesses and even their personal wealth as well.
14:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, personal wealth, which of course would be high. I'm
14:11
Speaker 1: sure one thing we can all do, folks well with
14:13
Speaker 1: a bit of luck, which is common and particularly common
14:16
Speaker 1: to people at the very top of the list. Don't
14:18
Speaker 1: going to name them. Gina Reinert Number one, Harry Trigamov
14:21
Speaker 1: number two. Who else is there? Carry is still longevity,
14:28
Speaker 1: live a long time compound. It's It's really powerful, isn't it.
14:32
Speaker 1: If you live a long time and you don't blow it,
14:36
Speaker 1: it really builds that compound.
14:37
Speaker 2: Interesting thing, isn't it. James and Alex Wastlets and those
14:40
Speaker 2: people like that are in the Fundage talk about that
14:42
Speaker 2: if you make some money, you keep it in there
14:44
Speaker 2: and it just keeps you compounding and growing. So yeah,
14:46
Speaker 2: I think that. I mean it goes back a little
14:48
Speaker 2: bit to perseverance as well, and perhaps but the fear
14:50
Speaker 2: of not knowing what they'll do if they're not in
14:52
Speaker 2: their business. I mean, Harry Triggerabof is ninety three now
14:54
Speaker 2: and he's still it might be a little bit harder
14:56
Speaker 2: for him to get around, but I still see him
14:57
Speaker 2: charging around. I know he was down in Melbourne, you know,
15:00
Speaker 2: for the tennis in January. He still turns up to things.
15:02
Speaker 2: He's ninety three, he still turns up to the office
15:05
Speaker 2: every single day. He knows what's going on. He knows
15:07
Speaker 2: all the he knows all the sheets they call him.
15:10
Speaker 2: He knows all the financial information line by line in
15:13
Speaker 2: his company. He has his grandson in there now like
15:15
Speaker 2: as the sort of heir apparent, But it's no doubt
15:18
Speaker 2: that Harry is still running that show in a mental capacity.
15:21
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think you're making money and you're keeping
15:23
Speaker 2: it in there and it keeps growing and growing. But
15:26
Speaker 2: you're also still in charge for all those years too.
15:29
Speaker 1: I suppose the lesson for investors is, no, what's in
15:31
Speaker 1: your portfolio, don't let anything, don't turn your you know,
15:35
Speaker 1: don't lose sight of what you've got. If you've got
15:38
Speaker 1: fifteen shares, do you know how they are all going?
15:41
Speaker 1: Do you know that the story has changed quite quickly
15:43
Speaker 1: on some If you had a at Lassian do you
15:46
Speaker 1: know that it's down sixty percent from the top in
15:48
Speaker 1: the blink of an eye. So you've got to keep
15:50
Speaker 1: a really close eye on that. Now, Okay, let's talk
15:53
Speaker 1: about the broader list. One thing I think people would
15:56
Speaker 1: find interesting as a sort of because the list is
15:58
Speaker 1: such a sort of window into the wider world, is
16:01
Speaker 1: that I think it's the first time in so many
16:04
Speaker 1: years that the total value of the list is less
16:06
Speaker 1: than it used to be. Yeah, what happened there.
16:10
Speaker 2: That's correct, And the reason for that, I think it's
16:12
Speaker 2: technology and it's a shift, a little shift with a
16:15
Speaker 2: little a large shift in wealth numbers as to what's
16:19
Speaker 2: going on inside that technology sector. So the people that
16:22
Speaker 2: we that come on the list, like we're talking about
16:24
Speaker 2: with the Iron Brothers. Oliver Curtis is another notable example.
16:27
Speaker 2: You might him from his inside a trading jail term
16:30
Speaker 2: about a decade ago, and now he's back.
16:32
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's now on this he's now ahead of
16:34
Speaker 1: this company called firms FI or m Us, which is
16:38
Speaker 1: this super hot pre IPO stock. Yes, with I suppose
16:42
Speaker 1: it has to be said, a colorful character in charge.
16:46
Speaker 2: So it's an AI. It's an AI theme there. So
16:49
Speaker 2: the AI companies are growing rapidly in value. So Curtis
16:53
Speaker 2: is a billionaire one point three billion dollars on paper
16:56
Speaker 2: that he's got invaluation in his six billion dollar company.
16:58
Speaker 2: So you got the Iron Brothers are coming up as well.
17:01
Speaker 2: Other and then on the other hand, the software companies
17:04
Speaker 2: like the Atlasians and the Wires Texts, they've been marked
17:07
Speaker 2: down there and their major falls are the major so
17:09
Speaker 2: their falls are the major reason for the overall falls.
17:12
Speaker 2: So you've got AI attacking the software companies. So the
17:15
Speaker 2: AI guys are going up and the software companies are
17:18
Speaker 2: going down. So that's what's happening inside the technology sector. Overarching, though,
17:23
Speaker 2: there's some of those old industries that are back in fashion,
17:27
Speaker 2: so to speak, coal mining, real estate manufacturing. They're perennials
17:32
Speaker 2: and they're not as volatile as these other stocks or
17:35
Speaker 2: these other companies are.
17:38
Speaker 1: So it does actually mirror the market considerably, doesn't it,
17:42
Speaker 1: With the AI, for instance, being perhaps overplaced and overhyped
17:46
Speaker 1: the software the threat to software by AI being reflected
17:50
Speaker 1: in the falling fortunes of some of the bigger players
17:53
Speaker 1: such as Wistech, such as the Atlassian due who have
17:57
Speaker 1: dropped down the list a little bit. I noticed that
18:00
Speaker 1: we're talking about partnerships Melanie Perkins and Cliff Obrect there
18:04
Speaker 1: remain there at the top five, five and six. If
18:07
Speaker 1: they were listed John on the share market. Do you
18:10
Speaker 1: reckon they're the slid more.
18:12
Speaker 2: I suspect they probably will, and I think you're going
18:14
Speaker 2: to see some cuts in valuation for that. Privately, over time,
18:17
Speaker 2: I cut them down a little bit for what they
18:19
Speaker 2: would have been sort of, you know, five six months ago.
18:21
Speaker 2: But I reckon that as time goes on this year,
18:24
Speaker 2: there probably will be evaluation cut given what what else
18:27
Speaker 2: is happening. The one thing with Canva, though, in comparison
18:30
Speaker 2: to Atlassian, for example, is that from all reports, Canva
18:34
Speaker 2: has been profitable for quite a while now. So at
18:37
Speaker 2: Lassian has not been profitable for the last ten years.
18:39
Speaker 2: They've lost about three and a half billion dollars in
18:41
Speaker 2: that time. The market is telling them that need to
18:44
Speaker 2: get profitable Canva. You know when we see if we
18:48
Speaker 2: see prepo documents come through, should sow some pretty healthy
18:51
Speaker 2: profits modu. That's what the Atlasian documents showed ten years
18:55
Speaker 2: ago as well. And then they ACU he did a
18:57
Speaker 2: lot of spending and slind lost for a long time,
18:59
Speaker 2: and they were that were being valued on a revenue
19:02
Speaker 2: multiple rather than net profits and stuff like that. So
19:04
Speaker 2: Canva could be a little bit different. I'll be fasciname
19:06
Speaker 2: to say what happens there.
19:08
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll be back in a moment, folks, I want
19:10
Speaker 1: to take it. I want to take you to a
19:11
Speaker 1: little sort of four wind trip across the list and
19:14
Speaker 1: one or two questions as well. Talk to Hello, welcome
19:25
Speaker 1: back to the Australians Money Pazza. I'm James Kirkby talking
19:27
Speaker 1: to John Stencold, which two fifty editor a couple of
19:32
Speaker 1: random ones for you, John question without notice? Are you ready?
19:36
Speaker 1: This is like the buzzer question in the quiz show.
19:38
Speaker 1: Why is Nikola Forrest valued more than Andrew Forrest? She's
19:43
Speaker 1: at seventeen point nine billion and he's at sixteen point
19:47
Speaker 1: seven billion. Has anyone asked you this? Including Andrew Forest.
19:50
Speaker 2: I can't devolve what's guys on behind the scenes when
19:52
Speaker 2: we talk to these billionaires for the list, James, but
19:55
Speaker 2: it is a talking point. I can assow you Nikola
19:57
Speaker 2: in her own name has fifty million more Fortescue shares
20:02
Speaker 2: than Andrew does. The rest of their wealth is fifty
20:06
Speaker 2: to fifty. So they own Tatterrang, which is a private
20:09
Speaker 2: they're private sort of investment empire, which owns Ara and
20:11
Speaker 2: Williams and a whole stack of other assets that is.
20:14
Speaker 1: Fifty to fifty.
20:15
Speaker 2: But she has fifty million Fortescue shares in her own
20:19
Speaker 2: name through a thing called Coaxial, which is her own.
20:22
Speaker 2: Now that may be some sort of assettlement thing or
20:26
Speaker 2: a marriage sort of breakup thing. It's a clear thing
20:28
Speaker 2: though It's definitely there on paper. So yes, now, Twiggy,
20:33
Speaker 2: Andrew Forrest is the founder, but obviously Nichola has been
20:36
Speaker 2: there for step of the way and she's got those
20:38
Speaker 2: assets in her own name.
20:39
Speaker 1: Now, well, it's a very interesting day mansion today. I
20:42
Speaker 1: must see in the list and cut my eye and
20:45
Speaker 1: I maybe Italy. I imagine it catches the eye of money.
20:48
Speaker 1: All right, just tell me for you personally, what was
20:53
Speaker 1: the story that jumped out?
20:54
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed a story that's that Liam Mendes and
20:57
Speaker 2: Angelica Snowden wrote about a guy called Russell Wilson who's
21:01
Speaker 2: Coinspot founder. Now Coinspot being a really huge coin and
21:05
Speaker 2: another cryptocurrency broker here.
21:07
Speaker 1: In Australia, crypto empire.
21:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got a couple of million customers. No one
21:11
Speaker 2: knows about this founder. He's living pretty anonymously in Berrick
21:14
Speaker 2: in Melbourne's outskirts, and yeah he was up in space
21:17
Speaker 2: on Jeff Bezos' spaceship last year. He almost lost his
21:21
Speaker 2: company through big scam by a couple of very ordinary
21:24
Speaker 2: people in the UK a few years ago. So it's
21:26
Speaker 2: an incredible tale of like of wealth but also like you,
21:30
Speaker 2: persistence and perseverance, secrecy and almost losing it as well.
21:35
Speaker 2: He's very low key, very low I've called him the
21:38
Speaker 2: most reclusive billionaire in Australia.
21:40
Speaker 1: So how did you get at this reclusive billionaire?
21:43
Speaker 2: Well, we found some court documents in the UK that
21:45
Speaker 2: were a fascinating read. It's actually a very positive story.
21:48
Speaker 2: He didn't want to be found and we tracked him
21:50
Speaker 2: down through going to an office that doesn't really exist,
21:53
Speaker 2: and houses and a coffee shop that he owns in
21:55
Speaker 2: Berwick as well, So he's around.
21:58
Speaker 1: Well I imagine if he's in Bury, which is a very
22:00
Speaker 1: nice part of the world in outer Melbourne as you
22:03
Speaker 1: head over towards Gippstand, but it wouldn't be full of billionaires,
22:07
Speaker 1: not at all. No, Yeah, isn't that interesting? Okay, very good?
22:12
Speaker 1: I want you to just if you have a moment, John,
22:14
Speaker 1: I did want you to also help us with some
22:17
Speaker 1: questions and I think they're appropriate for you, John. I
22:20
Speaker 1: kept them for you, especially first ones from Anna. She says,
22:23
Speaker 1: you've had guests covering the attractions of private credit. But
22:26
Speaker 1: I read that many of the wealthy Stourne are getting
22:29
Speaker 1: out of our listed assets such as private credit. Is
22:31
Speaker 1: it too late to get in? First thing, John, in
22:34
Speaker 1: your group, anyone in the private credit space.
22:37
Speaker 2: There's quite a few that dabble in that private credit
22:39
Speaker 2: or private lending. It feels like there was a bit
22:41
Speaker 2: of a trend of family officers getting into private credit
22:43
Speaker 2: and lending lending for proper developments. I have to say
22:47
Speaker 2: that a few of them. I've taken some haircuts on those.
22:50
Speaker 2: You know, they've leant to some unfortunately, like you know,
22:52
Speaker 2: questionable or projects that haven't gone particularly well. So I
22:57
Speaker 2: think some of it looks, you know, some of those
22:59
Speaker 2: wealthy family offices particular, really polledy in I've had some
23:02
Speaker 2: very good returns, but there's been a mixed bag, probably
23:05
Speaker 2: more recently. So it's outside it's a bit of a cautionary.
23:07
Speaker 1: Tile, okay. And then I mean, obviously, at the point
23:12
Speaker 1: I had been making, and I think the guests we're
23:14
Speaker 1: making on the show regularly, was that private credit was
23:16
Speaker 1: probably splendid investment when there wasn't many people doing it.
23:20
Speaker 1: But once you've had a rush into a sector which
23:24
Speaker 1: is notoriously opaque and will remain so, and it will
23:27
Speaker 1: always be so there's always risks, and those risks are
23:31
Speaker 1: really playing out in the US at the moment, of course,
23:34
Speaker 1: But there's been some fairly big scares in that area,
23:37
Speaker 1: and we've had some locally as well, and I think
23:39
Speaker 1: there's more to come. Is it too late to get in?
23:42
Speaker 1: It's never too late to get into a terrific, excellent,
23:45
Speaker 1: first class, high quality private credit fund. I'm afraid the
23:49
Speaker 1: chances I think of the everyday investor getting into one
23:52
Speaker 1: of those is slim that that will be my answer. Okay,
23:54
Speaker 1: have a really interesting question from Carl, and I've been
23:57
Speaker 1: waiting to do this question for some time. Here's Karl's question.
24:01
Speaker 1: I've been looking into Guzman Egomez, which folks you would
24:05
Speaker 1: know as the Mexican food chain that's listed on the
24:08
Speaker 1: share market. While I was initially surprised by the explosive
24:12
Speaker 1: share growth following its sisting, I still find it difficult
24:14
Speaker 1: to justify their evaluation. Interestingly, the price is roughly ten
24:18
Speaker 1: bucks below its listing price. Even investor believes they have
24:23
Speaker 1: a valid insight that the company is overpriced, how do
24:26
Speaker 1: they go about shorting it? Okay, thank you, Carl. Guzmany Gomez, Well,
24:31
Speaker 1: those guys they're not on the list, are they then
24:33
Speaker 1: behind it? No?
24:34
Speaker 2: There, they were going quite well for a while and
24:36
Speaker 2: probably worth a few hundred million dollars. But as your
24:38
Speaker 2: question says that the share process gone down a lot lately.
24:41
Speaker 1: Not only has it gone down, it's below the IPO price,
24:43
Speaker 1: which is unforgivable I think for a growth stock, and
24:46
Speaker 1: it was always a toll order I think for an
24:48
Speaker 1: Australian company to bring Mexican food into the US, which
24:51
Speaker 1: is what the big promise was at the time of
24:53
Speaker 1: the listing, and they certainly don't seem to have managed
24:56
Speaker 1: that in their latest numbers. But Carl, you would know
25:00
Speaker 1: all about that. So shorting, honest and how do you short?
25:04
Speaker 1: I think we'll come back to you on this. I mean,
25:06
Speaker 1: the most obvious way I think for the everyday investor
25:09
Speaker 1: to get into shortening is to buy a long short
25:11
Speaker 1: fund and then get someone else to do the shorting
25:14
Speaker 1: for you, because shorting is an extremely extremely specialist, high
25:21
Speaker 1: skill area and very few people, and very few people
25:24
Speaker 1: in Australia can do it because if you win, you
25:26
Speaker 1: win big, but if you lose, you lose everything. So
25:31
Speaker 1: we'll be all cautious about suggesting you try it yourself.
25:34
Speaker 1: Cart maybe we'll come back and have a mention of
25:36
Speaker 1: some of the long short funds that are out there.
25:38
Speaker 1: There's a couple of big ones that are very well known.
25:41
Speaker 1: But I won't mention one because I can only think
25:44
Speaker 1: of one, and I always like to mention several if
25:46
Speaker 1: I do at the one time. Okay, terrific. Kay, thank
25:48
Speaker 1: you very much, John Stenzhold.
25:50
Speaker 2: Thanks James, it's always a pleasure.
25:51
Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show today. Of course,
25:54
Speaker 1: the list comes out on Friday, that is today, Friday,
25:58
Speaker 1: the twentieth of March. I mentioned this because it only
26:01
Speaker 1: comes out once, rather like the Titanic. Okay, you can
26:04
Speaker 1: only get it once. It comes out in the paper March,
26:07
Speaker 1: so get it while you can. Today's show was produced
26:10
Speaker 1: by Leah Sammon Glue and I'd love to have some
26:12
Speaker 1: more questions of all types. Observations, comments and criticisms are
26:17
Speaker 1: all welcome. The email is the Money Puzzle at the
26:20
Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au. Talk to you soon.