Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / EP 9: Jill Cohen

Transcript

EP 9: Jill Cohen · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

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  Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
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  have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
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  got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
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  How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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  and most importantly, find joy.
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  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
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  New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
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  Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
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  You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
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  How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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  and most importantly, find joy.
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  Welcome back to live free, ride free.
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  Self actualization.
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  Now, it's not always what we think it is.
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  I realized in the opening interviews of this show that I have been
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  interviewing quite a lot of people who have been doing big things.
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  In a very noticeable sort of a way in the world which is wonderful,
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  but I, I reflected on this.
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  And I realized that there's an millions, probably billions,
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  hopefully billions of people out there living self actualized lives.
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  You would never hear of the everyday heroes, the unsung heroes, but not
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  just heroes that the people who just simply are self actualized and
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  they're not doing it in a way that is.
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  in front of audiences.
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  Not that there's anything wrong with doing it in front of audiences, but
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  it means that we can sometimes miss the meaning of what self actualization
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  is because self actualization is actually a very personal process.
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  What everyone's own successes is very, very much seen through
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  their prism, their lens.
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  And so that made me As I was having this thought, I rather Synchronis,
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  synchronistically got a WhatsApp from a, a very dear old friend of
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  mine, Jill Cohen, and I'm gonna let Jill Cohen tell you about her life.
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  But suffice to say, before we begin, I would say that Jill Cohen is one of
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  the most self-actualized people I know.
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  She's not famous she's not public yet she completely, completely lives life
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  on her own terms, very successfully, and in a way that I know has inspired
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  pretty much everyone who's come into contact with her, and has healed actually
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  many people who've come into contact with her, but has also reached out into
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  the wider world and had quite a lot of ripple effect influence, just without
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  fanfare and I think that there, if you're listening, And you've been thinking,
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  yeah, you know, Roo, you're saying all these very successful people that
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  you're, you're interviewing is awesome.
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  What about the ordinary people who are just out there self actualizing,
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  you know, and they're so busy self actualizing that they haven't got time
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  to make websites about it or whatever.
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  What about that?
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  And I think that's a very valid point.
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  So, you don't have to be a celebrity to be self actualized.
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  Quite the opposite, in fact.
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  So Jill Cohen, welcome to Live Free Ride Free.
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  Thank you so much for coming on.
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  Jill Cohen: Welcome.
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  Thank you, Rupert.
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  And so honored to be here with you.
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  Your abilities and skills of bringing out the true nature
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  in people is just mind blowing.
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  And I'm so honored to be here to be peeled back.
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  I'm so curious to see who shows up.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Well, you do, it's going to be a great honor.
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  Before, what I really want to ask you, so let's just go, who are you Jill Cohen?
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  Jill Cohen: I'm a little chickpea, just being cooked, ripened in this life.
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  I am here and present.
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  I was born to two parents that deeply, deeply loved me, grandparents that just
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  adored me and thought the world of me.
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  And that gave me such fertile soil to grow in possibility being seen,
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  being loved and just saw this life as such an opportunity to serve, to
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  love, to give, to grow, to nourish.
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  nurture and be part of and dance fully, fully, fully expressed.
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  So many I feel like I've just been given this magical lifetime.
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  I feel like an old soul.
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  I feel like I've lived through so many different cultures and ways of life.
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  I feel like I can relate to every grain of sand on the planet.
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  So tell us lifetime, just
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  Rupert Isaacson: tell us, tell us what you do.
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  What do you
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  Jill Cohen: do?
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  So I, right now, in this present time, I have been for the past 40 some
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  odd years started touching people.
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  I began when I was 13, working with clay and touching the clay.
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  And could do it like, like right away.
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  And then as that grew over the years, I just saw that the clay and the
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  process of clay becoming a pot and the human element that came into it.
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  And just the manifestation and the alchemy of the elements coming together creates
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  just this amazing vessel that holds life.
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  Did pottery for many years.
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  I was living in Southern California.
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  I had a studio with my husband and my two little babies, and we were
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  given notice that we had to move.
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  So we moved and didn't want to start up a whole new pottery,
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  so I began touching people.
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  I thought, this is such a natural progression, it's not much different,
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  and, and there's more interaction.
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  The clay, you're dirty, you're alone in the studio, and it's, It's awesome.
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  I loved it.
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  But it was like there was so much more richness in working with the
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  human added to all the other elements.
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  And started touching people and built a practice.
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  People were requesting my touch.
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  So I thought, okay, this is my new livelihood.
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  It was just like given to me.
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  And started to see how the emotions, our mental attitudes our backgrounds.
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  We're all in that tissue, that fiber, that fabric and after a few years, I
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  was just teachers just showed up for me.
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  It's just, I have, I kind of have to close my eyes to not have too many
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  because I'm, I've been not that's not hungry, but just fertile soil
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  for this little baby to grow in.
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  And I've just found beautiful teachers to help me learn.
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  Direct ways of getting to the core.
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  What's at the heart of the human dilemma of living here.
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  So I was led to I worked with fellow from Chicago that had the school of
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  school of massage, but it wasn't massage.
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  We didn't use oil.
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  He worked on athletes and dancers and it was.
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  Really fun created.
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  He showed me techniques of how to create space in the body through
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  movement and and deepening and it was almost like sinking your hands
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  and clay or you can't force the clay.
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  I knew that as a potter.
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  You try to force the clay and it just flops over and really doesn't give a shit.
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  So the clay really taught me, how to feel in my hands and it's an extension of my
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  heart and the air, my mind and the waters, my emotions and the fire of spirit and
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  things started to wake up under my hands.
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  I could feel the elements dance and I could feel where there
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  were imbalances, where there was lack of movement and freedom.
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  And it's just, I could feel in myself, it's like.
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  I just want to be free.
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  I just want to be able to move.
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  I want to be able to express and what keeps us stuck and I could really see
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  how the mind and the belief systems keep our fabric, our tissue stuck and
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  that the water element that you have to add to the clay is that the emotion.
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  So the emotion needs to be in there to lubricate the mind to free up Stagnant
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  belief systems that keep us stuck so much.
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  What it is.
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  It's like the mind.
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  It's it's it's it's our attitude.
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  That's our only free will is our attitude and when we can step outside
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  of that, when we can touch into the pain as being information and
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  not a bad thing that we need to get away from, but actually informant.
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  Things start to unravel, the layers start to unravel, and
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  the fear starts to drop away.
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  And it gets juicy and you want to go deeper.
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  So I was led to a teacher.
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  I was looking, I had moved to, gosh, this goes off to I had started my
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  practice and then went on vacation with my mom to Greece, felt like I
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  needed to just get out of town and.
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  Get some perspective on life and ended up meeting a Swede on vacation
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  and he asked me to marry him within the first hour and a half.
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  And I said, okay, I have to go home and get divorced, but did that and ended up
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  moving to Sweden and my practice kind of
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  changed.
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  It was going I had a, I had a I deepen.
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  Do I want to become a acupuncturist and really work with the
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  elements in the meridians?
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  Do I want to become a physical therapist and be a doctor?
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  Anyway, I didn't want to do that.
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  Long story short, sailed partway around the world, left the Sweden, Panama,
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  ended up coming back to Santa Cruz where I really always wanted to live.
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  Since I was, since I graduated high school, I moved my best friend up
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  here and said, I'm coming back.
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  So I came back here and was.
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  Gosh, given a massage practice a friend of mine was a chiropractor and her
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  massage therapist left town, left her high and dry and I was able to jump
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  in and fill in and didn't really, I blended, I did a little bit of massage.
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  Because that's what the chiropractic office wanted to, but within months,
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  I searched and went, okay, do I want to do rolfing went to a demo for that.
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  That didn't really do it.
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  Cranial sacral work, no, I need to be more, I'm more, I'm more young,
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  I'm more hands on, I'm more, I want it to be more expensive, expansive
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  than just holding the cranial rhythm.
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  And then I was working on a world class athlete.
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  And she had found something called myofascial release, and
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  she went and got a session.
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  She called me from the office, put me on the phone with the
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  receptionist, said, Jill, you got to learn this and make an appointment
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  and get treated and figure it out.
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  So I did.
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  And I was blown away.
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  The woman touched me, she worked in my belly and my psoas.
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  And it was like, boom, the birth of my son came up.
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  I'm sobbing.
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  I'm reliving this whole thing and letting go of, I actually had him in
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  a hospital and that was traumatic.
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  And I thought, wow, this shit's awesome.
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  Just, you know, showed me techniques of how to really get into the emotion
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  and into the mental belief systems and the places where I felt stuck, where
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  I couldn't access my power and, yeah, I called the office, John Barnes, my
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  fashion release, sign me up, when's your next seminar and went and did
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  a 10 day seminar and just went, holy shit, this is awesome, but it looks
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  so big because there's no protocol.
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  You learn techniques, but you really have to feel the body.
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  You have to listen.
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  You have to really bring in your intuition.
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  You have to deeply feel and look at the big picture.
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  And it's like, yeah, this is good.
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  This is juicy.
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  This will challenge me.
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  And I found my calling, my teacher, I could almost mouth.
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  You know, as he's teaching, it was like, it was so, it's so resonated with me
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  and came home and it was like worked on.
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  People started doing the techniques.
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  When I get a phone call from him, will you come and assist?
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  And that began a 15 year journey, 15 year journey of, of assisting
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  in the work and really deepening.
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  And and my practice was just booming.
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  I was seeing 5 to 7 people a day.
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  It was ridiculous.
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  And going to Sedona and traveling around the country to assist in his seminars
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  and yeah, and people were getting better.
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  People were, their lives were changing.
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  People were changing.
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  People were leaving, you know, relationships.
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  People were leaving jobs.
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  People were really looking from that expansive place where they
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  actually had space inside of themselves to start to imagine.
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  You know, what is possible.
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  So the work has just been a life away and the way knows the way.
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  So in a journey, it's like there's no separation between that work and life.
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  And then I started working on horses.
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  Horses have been in my life for most of my life.
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  From the beginning of having to babysit the little kid next door to be able
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  to get my, to rent my horse, to go to my lessons So then my stepdad bringing
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  a horse, surprising me so very busy practice up until I cut back the pandemic.
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  Thank God.
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  I'm so grateful.
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  It gave me my 1st sabbatical year time of not working and got
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  some big time to reflect and and start to slow down a little bit.
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  Yeah, where that dove tails into my mother coming and backtracking
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  to meeting you, Rupert, which was a pretty cosmic experience.
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  I don't even know if
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  Rupert Isaacson: I've shared with you.
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  Let me, let me go to your mother and let me go to how you met me because this is
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  going to inform readers listeners, the, the, the, the key word here is stuck.
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  And basically what you're saying is you have built a phenomenally
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  successful, you know, without a website, without any social media,
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  without any cheerleaders or pom poms.
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  My, sort of, myofascial release practice that began with pottery
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  went through intuitive touch and then went through formal training.
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  And now I do know, I, I, I, Jill, Jill Cohen listeners is a well kept secret.
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  Santa Cruz, California is one of the world's most beautiful places and an
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  awful lot of people want to live there.
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  So, of course, it's very expensive and to be able to, through a bodywork practice,
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  buy land, have horses, look after people, support people, as well as running the
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  business and keeping people on site, while at the same time being a complete
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  and total hippie, which is no insult.
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  And what I mean by that, because I'm a total hippie too,
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  is the hippies had it right.
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  And what I mean by the hippies had it right was that the
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  counterculture had it right.
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  The counterculture came along in, in, in direct as a direct answer
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  to what had created World War II and what created colonialism
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  that had led up to World War II.
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  And Those of us who were born during the counterculture.
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  I was born in 67.
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  When were you born Jill?
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  I was born at 54, right?
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  So The counterculture was happening and it was happening for a very good reason,
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  but we know that it People think that it imploded and people think now if
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  you say to people, Oh, you know, you're just a hippie or that person's a hippie.
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  It's almost like a a pejorative and to my mind.
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  No No, it's actually the highest compliment because not only
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  do the hippies get it, right?
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  but all of the areas now where the real estate is the highest in the world is
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  because they were ex hippie communes or Ex artist communes who went in there and
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  created an atmosphere and an ambiance and an aesthetic That then other people wanted
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  to come in and share in whether that's Santa Fe or whether that's the left bank
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  of Paris or whether that's East London or actually Notting Hill in London or all
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  these areas that we think of as so shishi, they, they, they were all hippie communes.
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  And this will always happen because the hippies are the pioneers and
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  what they're about is quality of life and quality of values and belief
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  and basically living through love and, and, and nature and aesthetics.
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  And community.
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  And so that you have done that talk like he'd be act like he'd be look like he'd be
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  live like he'd be while building a really solid business that gets people unstuck.
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  And the reason why I want to go to this word stuck is because you've had, I know,
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  quite a few times in your life when you've been, and you've had to walk the talk,
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  and now even, one could say, you are very stuck, and that's why I wanted you to come
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  on the show, because it's, listeners, it's not like Jill Kerwin is coming on saying,
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  oh yeah, you know, I sort of made it into hippie paradise, and I sort of live in
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  a Gaudi garden in Barcelona, you know, independent of any sort of cares or woes,
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  quite the opposite, quite the opposite.
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  It's almost like life has thrown at you, Jill, okay, you want to
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  deal with stuckness, try this one, try this one, try this one.
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  And you keep like sinking those baskets, sinking those baskets.
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  So before we go into where you've been stuck and how your people
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  might think you're stuck now, yet are actually self actualized, let's
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  dial right back to the beginning.
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  Jill Cohen: I was born in Houston, Texas on an Air Force base.
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  My mom got pregnant a year before my dad was out.
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  So we lived in, yeah, outside of Houston there.
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  And what was funny is God, it really, Goes into really my work of being
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  in my mommy's belly and she didn't acknowledge she was pregnant with me
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  until she was like, 5 months pregnant.
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  And I'm just going, why am I walking around?
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  Not wanting anybody to look at me if they're, you know, if they
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  see that I'm here, it's like, I always had that feeling of Jill.
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  What are you doing here?
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  That I was going to get asked to leave.
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  Yeah.
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  So I got to do the Leonard or rebirthing work back in the 70s and discover that.
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  Oh, that's not mine.
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  That was hers.
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  You know.
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  And, but that stuckness, it was like that stuckness, it's, it's just, it's
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  like the stuckness, it's like the pain, it's an informant, it's information
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  and the stuckness is going into it.
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  It's like using the compression, it's like, it's like the piece of coal being
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  compressed and then it's like it's so compressed and then boom, it's a freaking
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  star, it's a diamond, it explodes.
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  Rupert Isaacson: So, okay, so you're born in 54.
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  In this Air Force base, outside of Houston, but you're, you're Jewish, you,
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  you talk like a New Yorker, your folks were from New York, moved up to New York.
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  Jill Cohen: Yep.
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  Nope, my parents were both.
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  My father from the Bronx and my mother from Brooklyn and their families
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  from Romania and Ukraine Ashkenazis
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  Rupert Isaacson: Ashkenazis Ashkenazis.
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  Yeah from Eastern Europe like my my Jewish heritage is that
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  side to you Ukraine Lithuania?
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  Okay How how long do you live in?
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  How long do you live in New York?
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  How practicing Jewish was your family?
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  How Ashkenazi was?
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  Jill Cohen: Yeah, so my mom's, my maternal side were not very, they went
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  to temple my uncle was bar mitzvahed, girls didn't get bar mitzvahed
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  then, but on my mom's side, and they were, they were Jewish, absolutely.
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  They acknowledged their heritage, but they weren't practicing.
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  So much my father's side grandpa Irving was he came from Romania
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  as a little three year old boy with his dad landed in New York.
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  Mom had died in Romania and grandpa was a very religious man, but very, very humble.
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  Didn't push it.
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  We had Passover.
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  The prayers, you know, ran through my head, but I was
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  never sent to Sunday school.
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  Thank God.
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  I went with a friend once and I just went, you believe this crap?
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  So that was kind of like, I was into Baba Ram Dass.
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  I was into Be Here Now.
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  I was into All that but there was something deep in my soul about I mean,
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  I see fiddler on the, fiddler on the roof and I sob, I sob, I sob, I sob
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  through the entire, I'm deeply, deeply
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  Rupert Isaacson: touched.
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  It's a tribal thing.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  Jill Cohen: It's so tribal, so tribal deeply.
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  It's, it's ingrained in me and probably many, many lifetimes.
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  But we lived in New York for about 3 years when I, by the time I
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  was 3, we moved to to California.
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  My dad got a job working for his uncle that worked in the.
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  Office furniture business.
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  We lived right below the Hollywood Hills sign.
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  It was awesome, in Beachwood Village.
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  And, lived there.
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  My dad started to do well.
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  My little brother was born.
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  And then we moved to the San Fernando Valley.
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  Got a house right above Ventura Boulevard.
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  And It was kind of cool.
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  Back then it was awesome.
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  It was, it's totally different now.
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  But back then it really was a cool
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  Rupert Isaacson: place.
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  What made it so cool back then?
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  It was more rural?
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  Jill Cohen: It was a little bit more rural, but it was a little
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  bit more it wasn't so glitzy.
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  It was just, I mean, I could walk barefoot Ventura Boulevard and now it's like
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  everybody's in heels and sunglasses, you know, the whole, that whole deal.
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  Movie intricacy started, I used to see the Beverly Hills, Billy granny on her motor
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  scooter with a little dog in the basket.
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  The hearty, hearty guy lived 2 blocks over and there were movie stars
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  everywhere, but it was so down to earth.
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  It it was a community.
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  It was a great community.
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  We could play in the streets and play in the, play in the, you know, empty
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  lots and until the sun went down and now it's like kids are, don't even.
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  Walk around at all.
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  Everybody's on a cell phone and in a car, but it was a great place.
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  It was a great place and and I got into horses.
• 23:38
  My parents, they took me to Pickwick stables in Burbank and they put me in.
• 23:44
  I rode with the California Rangers.
• 23:45
  We learned equitation and formation writing and all that.
• 23:49
  And that was really fun.
• 23:51
  It was begging, you know, begging for rides to get to the barn.
• 23:59
  Yeah, did that.
• 24:00
  Yeah.
• 24:02
  Growing up, wasn't so much into school, but I was definitely into
• 24:07
  art and gymnastics, jewelry, pottery.
• 24:11
  Those were my big subjects and I did graduate somehow, but when I was 13.
• 24:19
  Yeah, no, you go ahead when I was 13, there was 8th grade art class and there
• 24:25
  was a kick wheel in the corner and I just saw it and went for it and got on it.
• 24:29
  And I was able to actually center the clay and make a pot.
• 24:33
  And the teacher, you know, let me stay on it.
• 24:35
  The whole year was awesome.
• 24:36
  And then my mother saw that my interest and there was a pottery
• 24:40
  studio called the muddy wheel, right?
• 24:41
  On metro Boulevard, like, Just a block up from our house, I could walk and there
• 24:46
  was an amazing apprentice program there.
• 24:48
  And she put me into that program.
• 24:49
  There was an incredible master Potter there, Fred Wilson black
• 24:54
  man, just brilliant and created this whole apprentice program
• 24:58
  for kids and, and for adults.
• 25:01
  I mean, we had pottery lessons for anybody I was.
• 25:05
  Really learned to throw pots to make, make clay, make glazes, fire the kiln.
• 25:12
  My parents would let me stay up till midnight because we were firing the kiln
• 25:15
  and then we would go to pottery shows, sell our ware had a gallery in front.
• 25:19
  I bought my 1st car with my own money when I was 17 love doing that.
• 25:25
  That really.
• 25:26
  That really gave me my kickstart into being self actualized that
• 25:32
  I could do what I loved at 15.
• 25:34
  I was teaching adult throwing classes and I was like, my God,
• 25:39
  this is freedom and I have a car and I can go drive to the beach.
• 25:43
  You know, I can do.
• 25:45
  Yeah, I had a life.
• 25:45
  I had freedom.
• 25:46
  I had, it gave me my wheels that I was then able to explore life and gave me it.
• 25:56
  Yeah, livelihood.
• 25:58
  You know, when I was 18, my grandparents had left me a little
• 26:01
  bit of money for education.
• 26:03
  So my parents were just brilliant.
• 26:05
  They didn't even talk about college.
• 26:07
  They signed me up to go down to San Miguel de Allende to pottery
• 26:10
  school for 3 months and do large pot growing and glaze calculation and.
• 26:15
  You know, that's what I got to do.
• 26:17
  And on the way home, I hitchhiked to Cihuatanejo, and
• 26:21
  met some interesting people.
• 26:23
  You
• 26:24
  Rupert Isaacson: hitchhiked from San Miguel de Allende Miguel de Allende
• 26:28
  Jill Cohen: down to Cihuatanejo.
• 26:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Mexico, down, up and down.
• 26:32
  And this is what year?
• 26:35
  Jill Cohen: This was in 72.
• 26:37
  Okay, so the year when I, so in 72, when I graduated high school 1st, they gave
• 26:42
  me the opportunity of going with the American Institute for foreign studies.
• 26:47
  There were maybe 20 other kids from my graduating class that met up with with
• 26:51
  with pods of, you know, graduates go into Europe and we all met in South Hampton.
• 26:58
  England.
• 26:59
  And we went to the University of Southampton for three weeks and
• 27:02
  took Archaeology, Anthropology, you know, English Lit, all that stuff.
• 27:06
  It was a blast.
• 27:08
  And then we ended up making our way, trains and planes, across
• 27:11
  Europe and ended up in Venice and boarded the original love boat.
• 27:17
  But they put us kids in the belly of the boat and we partied.
• 27:20
  We had a blast and travelled the entire Mediterranean.
• 27:26
  And
• 27:28
  Rupert Isaacson: this all happened through pottery.
• 27:32
  Jill Cohen: Well, no, my grandparents had passed, had passed away and
• 27:36
  left me a little bit of money for education, but my parents, this
• 27:39
  was American and it's too far.
• 27:41
  Rupert Isaacson: Indeed.
• 27:41
  But if you hadn't had, if you hadn't already been exploring pottery
• 27:46
  to the degree that you did where you were already No, exactly.
• 27:49
  Yeah.
• 27:49
  Self actualized to whatever degree through it, then these experiences
• 27:53
  would be meaningless, right?
• 27:54
  You, you, or at least It would have just been a party.
• 27:57
  But no, you, you, you'd already explored how to.
• 28:00
  Jill Cohen: And I was pissed off because they had signed
• 28:01
  me up for, for San Miguel day.
• 28:04
  Yeah.
• 28:04
  They signed me up for San Miguel day and day.
• 28:06
  And then the pottery studio, they were going to Japan and they were
• 28:09
  going to study with a raccoon master.
• 28:11
  And it was like, I was going, you gotta let me do this.
• 28:13
  It was like, it was like, you know, one or the other, they said, no,
• 28:18
  you already signed up for this.
• 28:19
  You're going to do this.
• 28:21
  And, and it was a, it was, it was an amazing experience of traveling.
• 28:24
  It was my first time, yeah, going to Greece, going to Italy, going
• 28:28
  to Israel, which was just amazing.
• 28:33
  Yeah.
• 28:33
  And discovering, starting to travel.
• 28:35
  So that was the beginning of my traveling and exploring the world.
• 28:39
  I've been everywhere.
• 28:40
  And
• 28:40
  Rupert Isaacson: then you come, you, you come, you come back
• 28:42
  to California after all this.
• 28:45
  And you how old?
• 28:46
  Jill Cohen: I was 18.
• 28:48
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 28:49
  And
• 28:50
  Jill Cohen: and then they put me on the plane New Year's Eve.
• 28:52
  They put me on the plane to fly to Guadalajara on my own.
• 28:55
  I had to find the bus to go over the mountains to San Miguel de Allende.
• 29:00
  They booked a room for me for 2 nights.
• 29:04
  And then I had to find, you know, I found other people in school.
• 29:07
  We all rented a house and did art and lived together.
• 29:12
  It was my first time being out of the house, finding other
• 29:15
  people that had common interests
• 29:17
  had some great adventures.
• 29:19
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm sure this was what year 70s?
• 29:22
  Yeah.
• 29:22
  Jill Cohen: So 73.
• 29:24
  This was the beginning of
• 29:25
  Rupert Isaacson: 73, right?
• 29:26
  So, so we're in the we're in the height of the counterculture here I think I think
• 29:30
  people often think that the counterculture began and ended in the 60s And of course
• 29:33
  it didn't it just sort of got going a bit in the 50s found its feet and its wings in
• 29:38
  the 60s Flap the wings and took off in the 70s and sort of has been soaring around
• 29:43
  the the metaverse ever since At what point did you dive fully into full on hippiedom?
• 29:55
  And how did you marry that with your...
• 30:00
  It was straight up.
• 30:02
  your, like, making it all work financially and so on.
• 30:05
  Because people often think those are two very different things.
• 30:07
  And clearly they're not, but talk us through that.
• 30:10
  Jill Cohen: So, a couple of things.
• 30:12
  I guess the counterculture, whatever the hippie it was, I think
• 30:16
  when I was 15, I saw there was a documentary on slaughterhouses
• 30:20
  and it fucking blew my mind.
• 30:21
  How inhumane that was.
• 30:23
  I was at my girlfriend's house.
• 30:24
  We went through and we threw everything away out of the freezer.
• 30:27
  It was disgusting.
• 30:28
  I became a vegetarian.
• 30:29
  It was like, why do we have to take life to sustain life?
• 30:34
  So that began that and then wanting healthy food and then.
• 30:40
  Yeah, when I'm the kid's dad and the beginning of that, I
• 30:43
  was, I had my kids at 20 and 21.
• 30:46
  So, backing up, I got home from Mexico, went and met all my pottery friends.
• 30:51
  They were at a pottery show.
• 30:53
  My best friend.
• 30:54
  Yeah, she was there too.
• 30:55
  She was dating this guy, but they were getting ready to break up.
• 30:58
  And I kind of, I was into him.
• 31:02
  And so we ended up getting together.
• 31:04
  I, I got home from Mexico.
• 31:07
  I got a call from, a pottery teacher that I had met over one of the summers,
• 31:12
  I think it was 17 on kill building up in Idlewild, and he kind of knew I was he was
• 31:19
  waiting for me to graduate high school.
• 31:21
  And he called me and asked me to come apprentice with him and hired
• 31:24
  me basically to work for him.
• 31:26
  So I said, yeah, if I can bring my boyfriend.
• 31:28
  So I brought.
• 31:29
  My boyfriend at the time, which is now my kid's dad and yeah, he learned to build
• 31:35
  kilns and make clay and I worked in the studio and eventually and we lived with
• 31:40
  him and eventually he and his girlfriend moved out and we took that house over
• 31:45
  and that's when we start our family.
• 31:47
  We had our garden and it was all really about growing your own food.
• 31:51
  So you have healthy, good food to eat.
• 31:53
  And I had my babies and Yeah, we were hippies.
• 31:56
  We were just wanting to live a good, clean life and live on the land.
• 32:02
  It was, I remember the book, Touch the Earth what was happening
• 32:06
  with all the First Nation people and the inhumanity with that.
• 32:10
  And that started to awaken in me and how they had it all.
• 32:17
  You know, it was, Going back to the earth started studying herbs
• 32:22
  Jethro Kloss wrote back to Eden.
• 32:27
  So it was all the natural remedies and teas and herbs dry brushing and
• 32:36
  yeah, how to take care of ourselves.
• 32:37
  We weren't taught that in school.
• 32:39
  So that was really my awakening to yeah, we call hippies, hippies were
• 32:45
  just wanting to live in nature with.
• 32:50
  The earth and the elements and, and caring about each other and having it
• 32:58
  more about what's, you know, in our hearts and what brings us joy rather
• 33:04
  than making the great, or getting the job or having the degree or any of that.
• 33:09
  How can we live in harmony with the creatures and each
• 33:13
  other and ourselves and,
• 33:17
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
• 33:17
  You, you married this to a very, very good sense of business.
• 33:23
  Yes.
• 33:24
  Why were those two things not diametrically opposed?
• 33:31
  Jill Cohen: Because of who my parents were.
• 33:33
  My dad, he saw my love for pottery and thought, okay, how, instead of shoving
• 33:39
  her into a university, you know, he gave me opportunities to actually
• 33:43
  put my, my dad was a hands on person.
• 33:46
  God, he could do a lecture.
• 33:47
  He was an amazing shipwright.
• 33:50
  I mean, he could remodel the entire house.
• 33:52
  He could do all the plumbing.
• 33:53
  He could do all the wiring and he learned that from his father.
• 33:57
  Who was an attorney who worked his way as a little Romanian boy working for
• 34:03
  his father, who was a tailor to put himself through Columbia Law School.
• 34:08
  This comes, this is in my, these are my ancestors.
• 34:11
  This is a genetic
• 34:18
  part of my fiber.
• 34:21
  It's like, anything's possible.
• 34:22
  It came from that.
• 34:24
  And you gotta do it.
• 34:24
  You do it.
• 34:25
  You work hard.
• 34:26
  I mean, my dad would put me under the house and I'd be running wires and,
• 34:29
  you know, we did, we, we, we worked.
• 34:32
  We did it.
• 34:33
  Yeah, people
• 34:33
  Rupert Isaacson: often think that hippiness was somehow a counter thing
• 34:37
  to work, not opting out of work.
• 34:40
  And it seems that it really wasn't.
• 34:42
  No.
• 34:43
  Jill Cohen: Oh, my God.
• 34:44
  Yeah, we built our own kiln.
• 34:45
  We made our, you know, our own clay.
• 34:47
  It was, it was like, we worked, we planted our garden.
• 34:50
  I had a horse in my backyard and it was you know, I, I tie dyed my own clothes.
• 34:55
  I sewed my own clothes, you know, it was like, it was work.
• 34:58
  It was, you make it, you do it, you want it, you create it.
• 35:01
  And it was like, my parents showed me that my mother gave me the, yeah.
• 35:06
  support that Jill, you can do and be anything you want to do.
• 35:10
  It's like, and I believed her and my dad showed me how you just do
• 35:15
  Rupert Isaacson: it.
• 35:15
  We know that you went from this successful business in pottery to one in human clay.
• 35:28
  Talk us through the, from one to the other.
• 35:32
  And by the way, have you taken pottery with you?
• 35:36
  Jill Cohen: Yeah, I can sit.
• 35:38
  I sat down at a potter's wheel a few years ago and I was like, boom,
• 35:42
  I hadn't done it for 20 years.
• 35:44
  And it's all that's in my hands.
• 35:47
  It's, it's, it's there.
• 35:48
  It's I still, I'm still a potter.
• 35:53
  I'm not doing it as a living and I'm kind of somebody that gets
• 35:55
  into things when I get into it.
• 35:57
  I get into it fully.
• 35:59
  I'm.
• 36:00
  Not a half ass, so it's like, I'm not going to go to the college and
• 36:03
  throw pots and then have to, it's like, I've got to have my own studio.
• 36:07
  So I really looked at it and I love the clay and I love that.
• 36:10
  But I, but I still get to be a potter with people.
• 36:13
  I get to still touch the clay in with the human element added.
• 36:20
  to it with the water, earth, fire, and
• 36:22
  Rupert Isaacson: air.
• 36:23
  Talk us again through, how did you, how did that jump happen?
• 36:28
  Jill Cohen: Well, we were, we were living, we were living in our house, we were
• 36:31
  renting, we were renting this little place, we had a huge piece of land, had
• 36:35
  a pottery studio, we had our, we sold our pots in front of our house, the dog would
• 36:40
  bark, they'd ring the bell, we'd come out.
• 36:43
  And sell pots and then we got 30 days notice.
• 36:46
  We had to move.
• 36:48
  So in that time, I had gone, my best friend had moved to Austin, Texas.
• 36:53
  Austin was just an awesome little town back then in 79.
• 36:58
  It was really because the year John Lennon died.
• 37:00
  I remember that distinctly.
• 37:03
  And the first Whole Foods yeah, so, so I went and visited, visited my friend.
• 37:09
  I said, I want to live here, so I rented a place and I came home and
• 37:12
  I said, we're moving to Austin.
• 37:13
  Let's pack it up.
• 37:15
  And we, we, I had a flatbed truck and we had a Volkswagen
• 37:19
  bus and we caravan to Austin.
• 37:22
  We brought the kill on the back and we had the dog and the bird and the
• 37:26
  kids and we moved to Austin and, I worked for, I worked with, with Joy.
• 37:34
  She had your heart's desire.
• 37:35
  We did vegetarian and catering and housecleaning.
• 37:38
  So we did that together for a couple of years.
• 37:41
  And then I started touching people and then people started
• 37:44
  to ask me to touch them.
• 37:45
  And I thought, well, why, why don't
• 37:47
  Rupert Isaacson: you start to touch people?
• 37:48
  Well, you weren't doing that before.
• 37:51
  And then suddenly you were, there's no, there's some connection story there.
• 37:55
  What is it?
• 37:56
  The
• 37:56
  Jill Cohen: pain.
• 37:57
  I mean, people's pain.
• 37:58
  If I could touch people and it helped them release pain, it was just...
• 38:03
  Rupert Isaacson: But you presumably might have been doing that before, or did you
• 38:06
  suddenly only start doing that in Austin?
• 38:08
  And if so, why?
• 38:09
  No,
• 38:10
  Jill Cohen: Ross and I, so we would, we would, yeah, we were throwing pots.
• 38:13
  I was unloading tons of clay and it's hard work and...
• 38:20
  We, I went and found this book called the book of massage and it had techniques of
• 38:33
  different massage techniques of how to.
• 38:37
  You know, work on the shoulders or it was just, it was a hand illustrated book
• 38:42
  called the book of massage and we, we would practice techniques on each other.
• 38:46
  And I was like, oh, this is an, you know, it came really easily.
• 38:50
  It was kind of a no brainer.
• 38:51
  It's like, I knew how to touch clay and after a while, got good
• 38:55
  at it and it just transferred over from my hands to people and.
• 39:04
  Didn't want to start up another business of pottery that was too much groundwork.
• 39:10
  So I guess I just, I don't know.
• 39:12
  It was just, I'm drawn to people.
• 39:15
  It's like, that's how I connect is through touch.
• 39:17
  It's really how I connect is through touch.
• 39:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 39:21
  So now you're, so yeah, basically you were working your body out massively
• 39:26
  through unloading all this care.
• 39:27
  I know you, you're, you're one of these people who looks small and frail.
• 39:31
  You're five foot or so or five foot one and you're slightly built and so on but
• 39:36
  I know how Actually, you know, like many people like that actually much much much
• 39:41
  stronger than you appear But you have this sort of live Dancers, you know physique.
• 39:47
  So that's some toll is being taken as you're you know Unloading
• 39:53
  these many many tons of clay.
• 39:55
  Actually, it would be the same whatever physique you had.
• 39:57
  So you get interested in Massage and touch simply because you and your partner are
• 40:03
  hurting because you're working so hard.
• 40:05
  Exactly.
• 40:06
  Exactly
• 40:06
  Jill Cohen: That's the
• 40:09
  Rupert Isaacson: missing piece for me and then and then you start
• 40:12
  transferring that over to other people and people start going.
• 40:14
  Oh, actually sure.
• 40:15
  You're good at this Wow, I feel better.
• 40:17
  So you decide to take it further and we know from what you said earlier,
• 40:22
  that you Then from there found your way to the releasing Of the, what's now
• 40:29
  mainstream, but back then was by no means mainstream, you know, myofascial relief.
• 40:35
  People didn't even know what it was.
• 40:35
  Now people do.
• 40:37
  Now people pay, you know, big bucks for it.
• 40:38
  But back then it was a, you know, a fringe thing at best, but you've
• 40:42
  been exploring this for decades and helping people become unstuck.
• 40:48
  And yet you found yourself stuck quite a few times.
• 40:55
  So talk us through.
• 40:57
  The various stucknesses from the green ones over to the red ones
• 41:05
  How has this practice of yours?
• 41:10
  Allowed you to continue to self actualize even when it's like you've taken a
• 41:16
  blind turn in the labyrinth and have hit the dead end I think many many
• 41:19
  listeners here and this is why I want you to prick up your ears listeners
• 41:23
  if you think you're stuck If you think you've been stuck for years, you're
• 41:29
  listening to a podcast like this.
• 41:32
  Of course, every single person on this podcast has been stuck at various
• 41:35
  times, but I think Jill has a particular relationship with this and therefore some
• 41:40
  really good pearls of wisdom for you.
• 41:42
  So Jill, your stucknesses, how have you gotten through them?
• 41:48
  Jill Cohen: The way out is in, I had to go deeper, I had to
• 41:51
  really go in and feel and feel the stuckness, really face it dead on.
• 41:58
  And I mean, I've had, I've been a pretty introspective person.
• 42:07
  I've
• 42:08
  I had to really go into my stuckness.
• 42:10
  I had to feel the limitations of it.
• 42:13
  What was
• 42:13
  Rupert Isaacson: stuckness number one, would you say?
• 42:15
  What was the first big one that came and went, you're not
• 42:18
  moving any fucking further?
• 42:21
  You're now stuck.
• 42:21
  Sequoia.
• 42:22
  Okay.
• 42:23
  Sequoia.
• 42:24
  Tell us
• 42:24
  Jill Cohen: about Sequoia.
• 42:25
  Sequoia is my grandson.
• 42:26
  He's 20.
• 42:27
  He just turned 23 and I was at his birth, I got to assist in his birth and that
• 42:38
  little guy when he was six months old, he looked at me and it was like, it was like
• 42:44
  a shockwave went through me and I just realized you've come here to teach me.
• 42:50
  This, you're the reason I'm here now, this, you're my teacher.
• 42:54
  You're my big teacher.
• 42:55
  It struck me so deeply.
• 42:57
  There's something about him.
• 42:59
  And as we watched him, he was, you know, he didn't talk.
• 43:06
  He would line things up.
• 43:08
  Yeah, he'd come in the house and he'd line shoes up, he'd pull, drag pairs
• 43:12
  across my oak floors to line them up and went, huh, something's going on.
• 43:19
  And I had a woman that was a special ed teacher from Berkeley and I said, you
• 43:28
  know, would you come meet my grandson?
• 43:31
  And she said, yeah, he's definitely autistic.
• 43:34
  He is on the spectrum deeply.
• 43:36
  And I said, will you come talk to my daughter?
• 43:39
  And she said she's gonna hate me and it was like the most devastating
• 43:47
  thing because this child that had been born as my teacher,
• 43:51
  just this golden, brilliant being
• 43:55
  was just differently expressed, really.
• 43:59
  But it felt like just...
• 44:02
  devastation
• 44:03
  the challenges and the ability to communicate.
• 44:06
  And yes, his abilities were profound.
• 44:10
  But it was like, I could see the and feel the devastation
• 44:15
  in my daughter and son in law.
• 44:18
  And that pain was just like an arrow in my heart.
• 44:29
  And
• 44:34
  the love,
• 44:39
  just so deep, that I couldn't.
• 44:43
  make it different.
• 44:44
  I couldn't change it.
• 44:45
  So I went into it and
• 44:52
  let go of the label
• 44:56
  and was just with his humanness, how he showed up and it brought
• 45:05
  me into a whole new world of experience of what is possible.
• 45:11
  Yeah, I felt the stuckness.
• 45:13
  It was just like an arrow in my heart in the pain.
• 45:17
  Rupert Isaacson: This is of course, where we first met.
• 45:19
  So, for the listeners, I met Jill Right when the horse boy movie and book came
• 45:25
  out in 2009, and we were doing, we did a screening in Berkeley, California,
• 45:29
  if you remember, and you came up and talked to me afterwards and said,
• 45:33
  I've got this grandson and so on.
• 45:35
  And what was interesting was right before you, someone had
• 45:38
  come to talk to me who was.
• 45:41
  Completely, basically nonverbal, who came with a minder, who wasn't
• 45:45
  autistic, but had suffered from a 40 year old man, terrible, terrible,
• 45:50
  terrible Lyme's, Lyme's disease.
• 45:53
  And was absolutely stuck inside himself and the effort of expression
• 45:59
  caused his entire body to tremble and could barely get words out.
• 46:03
  And I was just dealing with the opening up of what autism and
• 46:12
  neuropsychiatric and neurocognitive.
• 46:15
  Some medically based some less medically based can do I was just beginning to
• 46:19
  because the movie had come out the book I'm out so, you know people were
• 46:22
  coming and presenting themselves in front of me and I was beginning to the
• 46:29
  next person who came up to to talk to me and I was already I was just sort
• 46:32
  of recovering from the basically the sort of the the 20 minute education
• 46:37
  that this dude had just put me through.
• 46:40
  I didn't even know about limes.
• 46:41
  You know, I sort of knew that something called limes existed.
• 46:43
  I had no idea it could harm or affect a person like this.
• 46:46
  And I'm just, you know, processing that.
• 46:49
  I remember you show up and you say, look, I've got this grandson
• 46:52
  who's kind of like your son.
• 46:54
  And we, I remember thinking immediately when I met you, Oh, tribe member.
• 47:02
  And you know, I have, I have an Ashkenazi, an Ashkenazi Jewish
• 47:07
  side of my family as well.
• 47:08
  And I'm a great believer that probably we're all sorts of cousins really because
• 47:13
  it wasn't that big of a population and then it got blown into the diaspora.
• 47:18
  And then you came out to text ironically to Austin, which for so long with Sequoia.
• 47:26
  And I remember looking at Siquoia and going, wow, he's.
• 47:30
  He's more severe than my kid.
• 47:32
  He's, he's, he's in another league and I saw the
• 47:37
  the intensity of the effort and the uncertainty and the devotion and the
• 47:47
  In German you say schwerigkeit, you know, the, the, the, the, the,
• 47:51
  the weight of this whole thing.
• 47:54
  And yet you retained, you and your daughter actually retained joy
• 48:00
  and imparted this into Sequoia.
• 48:03
  I know that there were many ups and downs later with Sequoia,
• 48:09
  yet it stuck you in some ways.
• 48:12
  In that you had to then basically turn over your land, your practice, your...
• 48:19
  Forces your time, your life to be in service to your grandson.
• 48:27
  And then I remember you saying, you know, sometimes there'd be
• 48:31
  something happening and I'd say, Oh, Joel, do you want to come to this?
• 48:33
  He'd be like, Rue, I can't, I'm, I, I, I'm stuck yet.
• 48:37
  I have to do this and, and, and me thinking, yeah, yeah, you're right.
• 48:41
  You, you do.
• 48:43
  But.
• 48:45
  Wanting to honor the
• 48:50
  the devotion that you were that you were making How did you feel your quote unquote
• 48:58
  stuckness with suddenly saying no, okay I've just got to sit here in Santa Cruz
• 49:02
  and create a world for my for my Grandson who can't yet deal with the outside world.
• 49:10
  How do you feel that that stuckness?
• 49:13
  Unstuck you or how do you feel?
• 49:16
  How do you feel it self actualized you?
• 49:19
  Jill Cohen: So I have been so deeply guided.
• 49:22
  I mean, so to back up before I met you, I was back riding with Sequoia.
• 49:27
  It was happening the first time the kids brought him to the ranch.
• 49:30
  I said, here, hand him on up to me.
• 49:31
  This was before I met you, no horseplay happening.
• 49:34
  I was just listening to the inner guidance.
• 49:37
  Give him to me, sat him in the saddle in front of me.
• 49:40
  He was nonverbal, pretty much nonverbal.
• 49:44
  We walk off and in 30 seconds, he's singing the ABC song with the
• 49:50
  little tune, A, B, C, D, singing.
• 49:52
  And then he goes into some little cowboy jingle.
• 49:55
  And I'm just like, I come back, I ride to the kids, tears are flowing.
• 49:59
  It's like, he's here.
• 50:01
  It's like, this is, I go, there's something here.
• 50:03
  So started riding with him regularly.
• 50:07
  And then maybe a year later, my mare was just ready to give birth.
• 50:13
  She was in the pasture with another mare that had just had a baby.
• 50:17
  That was six months old and I said, you know, to the mayor, I
• 50:20
  said, I said, I said, Rosie, you're on take care of things tonight.
• 50:25
  You know, like, take care of my mayor.
• 50:26
  I know she's going to get birth give birth.
• 50:28
  And as I'm driving out of the ranch, I hear this voice, this vision that says
• 50:34
  you need to go find the Mongolian healers.
• 50:39
  Boom left with that months later, somebody says, Hey, there's this movie documentary
• 50:47
  that's been made called the horse boy.
• 50:50
  It's.
• 50:50
  showing up in Berkeley, you might want to go check it out.
• 50:53
  And that's when I got online, got tickets, made sure.
• 50:57
  And then I met you.
• 50:59
  How do you feel?
• 51:00
  So guidance.
• 51:01
  So the inner guidance and listening and where, where did I got unstuck?
• 51:06
  It was like, I stayed open
• 51:09
  Rupert Isaacson: in the self actualization thing.
• 51:12
  You know, a lot of people might feel if they're in a situation like
• 51:15
  that, where you're serving a special needs kid or a sick family member
• 51:21
  or something and you've just got to fucking stay there probably for years.
• 51:30
  You've by now built against the odds, you know, most mainstream Westerners
• 51:39
  feel that, you know, you can't be a good capitalist and be a hippie or
• 51:43
  you can't be a good capitalist and be a tree hugger and we know this is not
• 51:45
  true at all, but you've proved it.
• 51:47
  You've, you've by this time built your business, you've bought land in.
• 51:51
  Santa Cruz, California, which is ridiculous expensive and you've got
• 51:55
  horses and you've got these beautiful yurts and you're doing this amazing body
• 51:59
  work and you don't even have to advertise it now everyone and their dog is trying
• 52:02
  to come to you, turning people away.
• 52:04
  And you've, you've traveled all over the world.
• 52:06
  As you say, you, you were married to the Swede.
• 52:08
  You were married to this other guy.
• 52:09
  You, you, you've sailed all over the world.
• 52:11
  You, you, you, you lived here.
• 52:13
  You live there.
• 52:13
  You've been in Mexico.
• 52:14
  This is that and suddenly screeching hole.
• 52:19
  And.
• 52:20
  I also know that when you have a big special needs thing like this come
• 52:25
  into your life, it can, it can throw a massive spanner into the wrench of
• 52:29
  your business, because the time that it takes to look after this person
• 52:35
  takes time from making a living.
• 52:40
  How did the process with your...
• 52:43
  grandson help you self actualize
• 52:45
  Jill Cohen: further?
• 52:47
  I did my work.
• 52:48
  I felt my feelings.
• 52:49
  I did my own interpersonal work.
• 52:52
  I raged.
• 52:54
  Okay.
• 52:54
  I raged and I cried and I screamed and I stomped and, and, and I did it
• 53:00
  consciously by choice because I knew going in the way, you know, the way in is out.
• 53:09
  Okay.
• 53:11
  Rupert Isaacson: The way in is out.
• 53:12
  That sounds awfully close to Marcus Aurelius.
• 53:15
  What stands in that was a stoic philosopher.
• 53:18
  What stands in the way.
• 53:20
  The impediment to action increases action.
• 53:22
  What stands in the way becomes the way.
• 53:25
  Can you go deeper with this for us?
• 53:26
  Yeah.
• 53:26
  Yeah.
• 53:30
  Jill Cohen: And the way knows the way it's trusting the way
• 53:32
  it's trusting mother life.
• 53:33
  It's trusting the, it's like, you're not going to paddle upstream.
• 53:38
  That's ridiculous.
• 53:38
  That's ridiculous.
• 53:41
  You know train comes down the track you get on or you're gonna get dragged.
• 53:47
  Yeah, so
• 53:48
  Rupert Isaacson: I went into it Okay, so you you you you you go into your feelings
• 53:52
  you rage consciously you cry consciously You go into your feelings you get in the
• 53:58
  canoe you go downstream not upstream.
• 54:01
  Where does it bring you out?
• 54:04
  I trust mother life What happened though?
• 54:07
  Tell us the story.
• 54:09
  What, what, what you, you, you then, you then went away from that
• 54:13
  brief time that we had together with Sequoia in Austin on our ranch.
• 54:17
  You then had many, many years of somewhat what to the outside
• 54:22
  I could look like a stuckness.
• 54:23
  How, how did that, where did it leave you?
• 54:25
  Where did it bring you?
• 54:27
  Jill Cohen: I stayed present with my life.
• 54:29
  I stayed, you know.
• 54:31
  Picking up a lot of horseshit.
• 54:32
  That's where I'd get my biggest revelations.
• 54:34
  I stayed, you know, I showed up for work.
• 54:37
  I did my laundry.
• 54:39
  I, I, I stayed with it.
• 54:42
  I cared.
• 54:42
  I cried.
• 54:43
  I felt the pain.
• 54:44
  And I knew that, you know, I had to pay my mortgage.
• 54:50
  You got to pay property taxes.
• 54:51
  You got to eat.
• 54:52
  I want a good life.
• 54:53
  I'm going to show up.
• 54:54
  My father showed me that you don't give up.
• 54:57
  You just keep, you do it and it's, and it's, it's I don't know, I'm stubborn,
• 55:03
  I'm, I'm strong willed and and I'm passionate about life and I'm deeply
• 55:09
  grateful for this human birth, sort of, most of the time, sometimes it sucks.
• 55:17
  But I allow myself to feel the feels and I go into it.
• 55:21
  I don't push it away.
• 55:22
  I don't I own it.
• 55:24
  I don't want to be a victim.
• 55:26
  It's like, I'm too, my ego's too big for that.
• 55:29
  I set intentions.
• 55:31
  I look into the future.
• 55:32
  What do I want in my life?
• 55:34
  I don't want to be, I don't want to stay stuck.
• 55:37
  I want to, in my stuckness, I want to be fucking great in my stuckness.
• 55:41
  I don't want to be a miserable, you know, I don't want to waste this lifetime.
• 55:47
  Rupert Isaacson: I suppose you could argue that clay is a, is a, is a, is a material
• 55:53
  that is both stuck and unstuck, right?
• 55:54
  It's, it's, it's, it cloys and it fires and then it holds for thousands
• 56:01
  of years, possibly even fossilizes.
• 56:04
  And at the same time, it's totally malleable within its stuckness.
• 56:09
  Where did the.
• 56:11
  journey with Sequoia and not just Sequoia because I know that you gave up a lot,
• 56:16
  you know, proportion of your property, not just to him, but to his parents and you,
• 56:22
  you gave over a lot of your living space.
• 56:25
  To this, you didn't run away from it.
• 56:27
  Well,
• 56:27
  Jill Cohen: actually, okay, I have to be fully honest.
• 56:30
  I owned my old house.
• 56:31
  Rachel and Leon and I said, let's bring the horses home.
• 56:35
  This is the way, you know, the horse is amazing.
• 56:39
  Let's let's group together.
• 56:41
  So, I was a landlady ran into my place out.
• 56:44
  I still owned the house.
• 56:46
  The bank wouldn't loan me the money.
• 56:49
  To go in so really the house is theirs.
• 56:53
  And yet I am a silent partner because the bank loan loan, but if
• 56:57
  we sell, I've got a big piece of this
• 57:00
  Rupert Isaacson: right.
• 57:00
  But nonetheless, you set up that whole structure.
• 57:03
  That's.
• 57:03
  And then you had to be physically present.
• 57:06
  You couldn't be like, well, you know, I'll have, I'll have Sequoia maybe
• 57:09
  one, one weekend in three, perhaps.
• 57:12
  You're like, all the time, hands
• 57:20
  Jill Cohen: in the clay.
• 57:20
  He, his It was, yeah, in it there's so many people out there that they, they
• 57:26
  know it off as our special ed teachers or whatever, unless you live with
• 57:31
  it day and night, you really get it.
• 57:35
  It's huge, huge, huge, huge to windows broken and holes and walls, even not
• 57:41
  in a angry, pick up a stick and boom.
• 57:45
  He's singing at the top of his lungs and banging here with the stick banging there.
• 57:48
  There goes a window.
• 57:49
  There it goes.
• 57:50
  You know, it's like, it's just in the fridge getting something out.
• 57:55
  Fridge doors open cashews everywhere.
• 58:00
  It's just, it's constant.
• 58:01
  Thank God he sang and he was, he did find his voice.
• 58:04
  Then we knew where he was.
• 58:05
  That was a good thing.
• 58:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so, you have a son who's so severely autistic that
• 58:12
  you then get real estate create a, basically a family compound where you,
• 58:18
  your daughter and your son in law can live with the horses because you're
• 58:21
  getting communication with the horses.
• 58:24
  But then you 24 seven looking after your grandson with,
• 58:33
  enormously demanding special needs.
• 58:35
  He's incontinent.
• 58:36
  He's tantruming.
• 58:37
  He's like, my son was, he's wild.
• 58:40
  He's all over the place.
• 58:40
  He breaks stuff.
• 58:41
  He, you know, but you've created the safe thing for him.
• 58:44
  How do you keep earning a living while this is going on?
• 58:49
  I
• 58:49
  Jill Cohen: have my little treatment room and pretty much he went to school for a
• 58:56
  time, but then that wasn't really great.
• 58:59
  So brought a home and yeah, Rachel is home with them.
• 59:02
  Sometimes Leon would have to come and help.
• 59:04
  I could treat I was on the property in my studio and work.
• 59:09
  There were times when I got surprised visited visits where he'd come
• 59:13
  barging into my treatment room.
• 59:15
  And luckily, all my clients were aware and.
• 59:17
  Loving and thank God these kids are amazing.
• 59:22
  I mean, there's just, even though they're, you know, outside out of the
• 59:25
  box, they're, they're mostly beautiful.
• 59:29
  And and they're just being them.
• 59:31
  So, yeah, I'd get disrupted.
• 59:34
  Yeah, he's barged into my treatment rooms.
• 59:38
  A few times but it's just kind of all part of the part of life.
• 59:43
  And then
• 59:44
  Rupert Isaacson: how, how would you say that this stuckness, you're now after
• 59:47
  all this travel, after this life between different continents and cities and
• 59:52
  sailing around the world and from earning your own living through your hands from
• 59:58
  a teenager, and now suddenly you're stuck, you're stuck on this property.
• 1:00:02
  And Well,
• 1:00:03
  Jill Cohen: frankly, I was I was stuck with my horses.
• 1:00:06
  I was stuck with my family.
• 1:00:07
  I was stuck where I love.
• 1:00:10
  I'm not a big, I don't, I've traveled the world.
• 1:00:13
  I feel like I've been.
• 1:00:14
  So it was like, kind of like, like, I thought, okay, I guess I'm done.
• 1:00:18
  I mean, it did kind of yeah, when I had to cancel my trip.
• 1:00:23
  Back to see you guys and ride with Sophia.
• 1:00:25
  That was, that was a pisser.
• 1:00:28
  And at the same time, Rachel was super sick too.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, man, everything, everything kind of came together at that point.
• 1:00:37
  But it was like, you got to do what's at hand.
• 1:00:40
  It's, it's not, there wasn't, I'm not going to complain about it or be a victim.
• 1:00:47
  It's like, I still want to be able to drive my own boat.
• 1:00:51
  So I owned it and went into it and just saw this is where I am.
• 1:00:54
  This is how life is and I'm going to live my life a hundred
• 1:00:58
  percent right where it is.
• 1:01:00
  And what did you,
• 1:01:03
  Rupert Isaacson: what did you do to, to, to deal with the frustration of it all?
• 1:01:11
  Jill Cohen: I wasn't even able to travel that much anymore.
• 1:01:17
  I got some body work, but not very much.
• 1:01:20
  Luckily, my daughter's trained in the work that I do.
• 1:01:22
  We could work on each other and actually Leon's pretty good too.
• 1:01:25
  So we would work on each other.
• 1:01:28
  Smoke pot, dance, get pissed off, garden.
• 1:01:32
  I could take the horses out, go ride.
• 1:01:35
  Did you rage and hit pillows?
• 1:01:38
  I sometimes yeah, but I could do it therapeutically.
• 1:01:41
  I mean, it was like, yeah, you got to get it out.
• 1:01:44
  It's like, yeah, I've raged.
• 1:01:47
  I can.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah, I could explode.
• 1:01:50
  You know, I could, and in the my fascial work assisting
• 1:01:54
  that's that was kind of my job.
• 1:01:55
  I was good at, like, setting rooms on fire and getting
• 1:01:58
  everybody to rage many pillows.
• 1:02:00
  We had a room.
• 1:02:00
  Yeah, 100 students once and I got rocking and rolling and it's just
• 1:02:05
  amazing when you can get that out.
• 1:02:07
  It's like how the aliveness, you know, instead of, instead of smoldering in it
• 1:02:13
  and getting small in it, I got big in it and I, or, and I'd sit up on the hill.
• 1:02:18
  I'd get outside in nature.
• 1:02:20
  That was my biggest thing.
• 1:02:21
  Thank God we have seven acres here and I can get out and get away from people.
• 1:02:25
  I can go down and be with the horses, but really just, I need.
• 1:02:29
  A lot of what I needed was perspective, and that's what really, really helped me.
• 1:02:36
  God, I remember one time having that thought that, yeah, they could lock
• 1:02:39
  me up in a prison cell, but they can't take me outside of myself.
• 1:02:43
  And I can close my eyes, and the world is so fucking expansive.
• 1:02:46
  It's amazing.
• 1:02:48
  So it's like, it's like there is no real stuckness.
• 1:02:51
  It's like you can feel, eh.
• 1:02:54
  You know, it's like, yeah, I would have liked to have been going places
• 1:02:58
  and coming to visit and ride with you and but it was what it was mine to do
• 1:03:03
  to care for my mom and to be here and support my kids and Sequoia and love.
• 1:03:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, now you said your mom.
• 1:03:10
  So for the listeners, our internet pros, I'm getting Jill to, to
• 1:03:17
  retell what she already told me.
• 1:03:19
  So what happened is you're in the midst of this whole thing with being
• 1:03:22
  a sort of full time Carer for a, a very severely autistic grandson
• 1:03:27
  Jill Cohen: and wanting to set up a horse boy camp and, you know, do stuff.
• 1:03:31
  You're wanting to expand that like, ah,
• 1:03:34
  Rupert Isaacson: and then something happens.
• 1:03:35
  What happens with your mom?
• 1:03:36
  What happens with your mom?
• 1:03:38
  Mom,
• 1:03:38
  Jill Cohen: she gets diagnosed with lung cancer and thank
• 1:03:41
  god they found it soon enough.
• 1:03:42
  She had a good oncologist.
• 1:03:45
  So I went down every three weeks I would drive.
• 1:03:47
  I have to LA about a 6 hour drive and go through, you know, be there to support her
• 1:03:52
  with her chemo and just buy good food and stock her freezer with really good food
• 1:03:58
  and make sure that she had the nutritional support to get her through this.
• 1:04:01
  Because she's been my.
• 1:04:04
  Biggest cheerleader in life.
• 1:04:05
  Yeah, did that and came home and went back and came home and went
• 1:04:10
  back and she ended up getting through it went in through remission.
• 1:04:14
  But at this point, she's what?
• 1:04:16
  83 years old.
• 1:04:18
  She'll be.
• 1:04:19
  Yeah, she'll be 89 in August and she had been working but got to a point where
• 1:04:24
  she was not as clear as she had been.
• 1:04:28
  It started to lose her confidence and didn't feel that she could really,
• 1:04:34
  didn't want to live on her own anymore.
• 1:04:36
  So she called and said, can I come live with you?
• 1:04:38
  And I said, okay.
• 1:04:39
  I live in a yurt.
• 1:04:41
  I live on the land and she had a beautiful spotless apartment and gorgeous.
• 1:04:46
  Decoration.
• 1:04:47
  And, you know, it's like, this is a change.
• 1:04:49
  I live in a fricking yurt and there's dirt everywhere.
• 1:04:53
  And it, she didn't skip a beat, man.
• 1:04:56
  She came up here and just loved it and would sit on my deck and she could see
• 1:05:01
  the horses and loves my little dogs and the birds, and I got to bring my mom to
• 1:05:06
  the country, what an opportunity for her that had been a city girl her whole life.
• 1:05:10
  And she got to actually touch the earth.
• 1:05:14
  You know, it was such a gift to be able to share that with her and to
• 1:05:21
  expand her life experience a little bit, but slowly it's been, it's
• 1:05:27
  been a little over five years now.
• 1:05:29
  And, and I was excited she was going to come live with me cause we used to
• 1:05:33
  love to play Scrabble and I pulled out the Scrabble board when she first came
• 1:05:37
  to move and she forgot how to play.
• 1:05:40
  I don't know.
• 1:05:40
  Fuck.
• 1:05:42
  And she was good.
• 1:05:44
  Rupert Isaacson: The dementia.
• 1:05:45
  Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Dementia.
• 1:05:46
  Dementia.
• 1:05:47
  So, so you go, so you go, you go,
• 1:05:51
  Jill Cohen: autism.
• 1:05:52
  I go, I can do dementia, I can do autism, I can do
• 1:05:55
  Rupert Isaacson: dementia.
• 1:05:55
  What?
• 1:05:56
  Dementia.
• 1:05:58
  Yeah.
• 1:05:59
  And now you're, you're still looking after your...
• 1:06:03
  Mother with dementia in a year.
• 1:06:05
  Yes.
• 1:06:06
  Jill Cohen: I put up a second year.
• 1:06:08
  So she has a little her own little bedroom and then we have the big yard
• 1:06:12
  and I built an awesome bath house in between and But it's like she's getting
• 1:06:18
  I she's my little girl and she's kind of It's like, as long as I'm good and I
• 1:06:23
  keep myself together, I'm not a bitch.
• 1:06:27
  She's sweet as pie.
• 1:06:29
  She's just this little girl, wakes up smiling every day, but she's
• 1:06:33
  putting her underwear on backwards.
• 1:06:35
  She's gets up at the middle of the night.
• 1:06:37
  What am I supposed to be doing?
• 1:06:38
  And it's like three in the morning, you're supposed to be sleeping on.
• 1:06:42
  And it's like, I'm seeing it just slipping and slipping and slipping.
• 1:06:45
  And.
• 1:06:47
  It's like, you know, it's like I, I go in and I feel the vulnerability, she's
• 1:06:51
  aware of what's happening and I feel her vulnerability and and her fear, but her
• 1:06:58
  fear isn't that big because she trusts me.
• 1:07:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:07:03
  So, for the listeners, you don't know what's just happened here.
• 1:07:06
  I thought Jo was looking away from the camera and as she was
• 1:07:11
  looking away from the camera.
• 1:07:13
  Gub Rowan, my own beautiful, amazing autistic son, who's here in Germany,
• 1:07:20
  who just arrived on an aeroplane from Copenhagen today and found his
• 1:07:26
  own way from the airport here to our little town in north of Frankfurt
• 1:07:32
  and has his own house, has his own car, is at college has been.
• 1:07:36
  Going all over Germany by himself.
• 1:07:38
  And he's just coming to say hi!
• 1:07:40
  You're
• 1:07:40
  Jill Cohen: awesome, Scab!
• 1:07:41
  I miss you so much.
• 1:07:42
  I miss your big hugs.
• 1:07:43
  Oh
• 1:07:43
  Rupert Isaacson: my god.
• 1:07:44
  Scab, I'm just gonna put the, I'm just gonna put the microphone on you.
• 1:07:48
  Do you want to say a quick word to, to, to...
• 1:07:51
  But wait, wait, wait till I put these on you.
• 1:07:53
  And now, fire away.
• 1:07:59
  Hang on one further second.
• 1:08:02
  Alright.
• 1:08:03
  Hello, aren't you from square peg?
• 1:08:06
  It's Jill.
• 1:08:06
  I
• 1:08:06
  Jill Cohen: am from down, down the road from square peg.
• 1:08:10
  Rupert Isaacson: Oh, dad Jill, how are
• 1:08:13
  Jill Cohen: you doing?
• 1:08:14
  I'm doing well.
• 1:08:15
  It's good to see you.
• 1:08:17
  I love you.
• 1:08:18
  Oh, thank you.
• 1:08:20
  I remember your wonderful hugs when you and dad would take me to the airport.
• 1:08:25
  Oh, I can feel them.
• 1:08:28
  I know.
• 1:08:28
  Rupert Isaacson: I remember a time when I was into a rock
• 1:08:31
  radio station when you came too.
• 1:08:34
  Jill Cohen: In Austin.
• 1:08:36
  Totally.
• 1:08:36
  Totally.
• 1:08:37
  You were into Smokey and the Bandit, as I recall.
• 1:08:41
  Oh, that
• 1:08:41
  Rupert Isaacson: still happens from time to
• 1:08:42
  Jill Cohen: time.
• 1:08:43
  It does.
• 1:08:45
  Oh, and Madagascar.
• 1:08:47
  Our favorite movie.
• 1:08:49
  Oh, I've met so
• 1:08:51
  Rupert Isaacson: many fans along the way.
• 1:08:55
  Aww.
• 1:08:56
  I find it so
• 1:08:57
  Jill Cohen: fun to quote it.
• 1:08:59
  Yeah, well, it's so beautiful to see you and you're just growing up
• 1:09:03
  and just a magnificent human being.
• 1:09:06
  I love you.
• 1:09:07
  I'm also side hugging
• 1:09:08
  Rupert Isaacson: my little bro, Kyrian.
• 1:09:10
  Jill Cohen: All right.
• 1:09:12
  Well, that
• 1:09:15
  Rupert Isaacson: was a, that was a visit from royalty.
• 1:09:18
  Jill Cohen: What a treat.
• 1:09:20
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:09:21
  I can still feel his last hug I got from him at the airport.
• 1:09:26
  Rupert Isaacson: The hugs just get better.
• 1:09:27
  And then he's coming to live in Europe next year.
• 1:09:30
  It's all wonderful as his world expands.
• 1:09:35
  So that's
• 1:09:35
  Jill Cohen: where you can't be stuck.
• 1:09:37
  It's like, how can you be stuck in that?
• 1:09:40
  Exactly.
• 1:09:40
  Well, exactly.
• 1:09:40
  Rupert Isaacson: It's like, hello?
• 1:09:41
  But I, I think listeners need to, to, could you talk them through that?
• 1:09:48
  Like you said, I got big within the stuckness and we saw that now,
• 1:09:51
  you know, Rowan coming in and.
• 1:09:54
  Just blowing our world open in that beautiful way.
• 1:09:58
  How did your experience, how has your experience of having to basically go into
• 1:10:03
  service to sequoia, to then your mother's cancer while doing sequoia, then to your
• 1:10:11
  mother's dementia while also with sequoia.
• 1:10:15
  How has this apparent stuckness actually been self actualizing?
• 1:10:21
  Jill Cohen: It just, it's deepening my quest for my own self
• 1:10:25
  compassion and my own self love.
• 1:10:27
  It's taking me to an inner journey of loving myself.
• 1:10:32
  It's like, yeah, the way out is in and it's like self realization
• 1:10:36
  and then boom, once you realize.
• 1:10:39
  You know, self realizes there's, there's it all pops.
• 1:10:44
  Rupert Isaacson: What have you realized about yourself through this?
• 1:10:48
  Jill Cohen: That I care deeply.
• 1:10:50
  And it's been external a lot of the time and it's starting to turn.
• 1:10:59
  It's starting to turn inward.
• 1:11:02
  Really that there is no other that they're just we're all doing this
• 1:11:05
  earth block and we all have this very similar challenges at the core.
• 1:11:12
  They may look different with different people, but everybody.
• 1:11:16
  Has to get up, everybody has to eat.
• 1:11:19
  Everybody has to, you know, find a way to provide and
• 1:11:25
  I've got music that keeps popping on that.
• 1:11:27
  I have to turn off that we're really all doing this.
• 1:11:33
  Our, our journeys are all kind of the same in the fundamental human
• 1:11:42
  condition of finding joy our own self expression to, I don't know,
• 1:11:52
  it's, it's, it's not my nature to
• 1:11:58
  go in and feel sorry for myself or feel like somebody did it to me, or
• 1:12:05
  I was bad, so I'm being punished, or it's, it's like my nature expanding
• 1:12:13
  into life and I can't deny that.
• 1:12:17
  It's like, it's about joy.
• 1:12:21
  It's about love.
• 1:12:21
  It's about service.
• 1:12:22
  It's like, I, it's,
• 1:12:24
  Rupert Isaacson: it's, is it service that sets
• 1:12:27
  Jill Cohen: one free?
• 1:12:29
  Oh, absolutely.
• 1:12:30
  That's all there is.
• 1:12:31
  That's all.
• 1:12:32
  There is a service.
• 1:12:33
  And in service we, we come to love ourselves in our humanity, in service.
• 1:12:40
  All there is a service really, or, or we're in denial of what life.
• 1:12:46
  The opportunity of life.
• 1:12:48
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:12:48
  So you say in service we learn to love ourselves.
• 1:12:51
  Yeah.
• 1:12:52
  In service we learned about ourselves.
• 1:12:53
  I was gonna ask you.
• 1:12:56
  in this self actualization through apparent stuckness while helping other
• 1:13:02
  people to become unstuck through.
• 1:13:06
  Jill Cohen: How can you be stuck in loving other and serving?
• 1:13:09
  It's like, it's, it doesn't, it's like magnets resist.
• 1:13:13
  It's like you can't serve and not love or it's not service.
• 1:13:19
  It's.
• 1:13:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:13:20
  But some people, some people self martyr.
• 1:13:22
  How have you, and I'm sniffing the wind here.
• 1:13:27
  I'm not smelling burning Marta here.
• 1:13:29
  So, There's no, there's no barbecue smell.
• 1:13:32
  Quite the opposite.
• 1:13:34
  What, how have you learned?
• 1:13:37
  What, how, what techniques have you learned for self love and
• 1:13:42
  resilience through all this?
• 1:13:47
  Drinking
• 1:13:47
  Jill Cohen: water, keeping the, keeping the fluids moving, keeping my heart
• 1:13:52
  open, allowing myself to feel, to cry.
• 1:13:56
  When you say keeping
• 1:13:56
  Rupert Isaacson: your heart open though, what do you...
• 1:13:58
  What's the nuts and bolts of that?
• 1:14:01
  It's it's it's because that's almost like a trite thing to say, right?
• 1:14:05
  But how do you actually do that?
• 1:14:07
  What's I
• 1:14:07
  Jill Cohen: keep my feet on the ground.
• 1:14:09
  I feel supported by light.
• 1:14:12
  I I've the earth.
• 1:14:13
  It's it's like this You know this round ball.
• 1:14:17
  It's like it's I get its support being supported and held and I'm
• 1:14:21
  being guided when I quiet down and listen There's constant guidance.
• 1:14:28
  When I don't know what to do, I quiet down and I ask my heart and
• 1:14:32
  boom, the answer's right there.
• 1:14:34
  There's no mind.
• 1:14:35
  There's no figuring it out.
• 1:14:36
  It's like it's quieting down and I'm listening.
• 1:14:41
  But how does
• 1:14:41
  Rupert Isaacson: that help you love yourself more?
• 1:14:43
  Jill Cohen: It's the attention, it's the focus, it brings me home into my heart
• 1:14:51
  it's, and being grateful, the gratitude comes with that it's like, fuck, I could
• 1:14:59
  have incarnated in India, I could have been a beggar on the street, I could have
• 1:15:02
  been a kid that's arm was broken so their parents could beg to keep me alive I've
• 1:15:07
  seen that, you've seen that gratitude.
• 1:15:12
  It's like, I have air to breathe, I have water to drink, I have family to
• 1:15:18
  love and if I didn't have family, I could love my neighbor, I could love
• 1:15:22
  the creatures, the bugs, the birds, the, it's the presence, and the listening,
• 1:15:29
  and the just, oh, keeping our eyes open, and God, I had a dream the other
• 1:15:33
  night that I was running this beautiful trail, and I was running with my eyes
• 1:15:37
  closed, and the trail was right there in front of me, and I didn't even have
• 1:15:41
  to, I could see with my eyes closed.
• 1:15:45
  So, even to not have external sight, we have internal sight.
• 1:15:51
  We have internal listening, even if we're deaf and we can't, deaf and we
• 1:15:54
  can't hear, we have internal hearing.
• 1:15:57
  We have our senses that bring us to our senses.
• 1:16:03
  And how can you not
• 1:16:03
  Rupert Isaacson: be grateful?
• 1:16:05
  I was going to ask if gratitude is part of this because I find
• 1:16:11
  Jill Cohen: more and more.
• 1:16:12
  I think I thank every chicken for every egg they lay.
• 1:16:15
  I cannot pick up a chicken, an egg without saying thank you.
• 1:16:19
  It's every morning to wake up.
• 1:16:23
  Thank you.
• 1:16:24
  It's for every meal.
• 1:16:25
  It's like, and it wasn't that my parents taught me to say thank you.
• 1:16:29
  It's just thank you.
• 1:16:31
  It's, it's with every breath that I can inhale, it's like it's to have this human
• 1:16:39
  experience to be able to experience the range, to be able to experience the depth
• 1:16:45
  of life and the connection and things that feel like such roadblocks to be.
• 1:16:50
  I remember being in the arena with you, and I remember just being just.
• 1:16:56
  It's so filled that if, if Sequoia wasn't autistic, I would have never known you.
• 1:17:01
  I would have never had the joy of exploring life and feeling
• 1:17:06
  the depth of connection and the depth of aliveness and the
• 1:17:10
  it's like, how did I get so lucky to have it all line up?
• 1:17:15
  It just feels like I'm just, it's like the, it's like every step is just laid.
• 1:17:22
  And I think it is for everybody.
• 1:17:24
  It's just the noticing.
• 1:17:26
  It's just the willingness to quiet down and notice and to get out of that
• 1:17:32
  constant dialogue That takes us from being present being in the present moment so
• 1:17:41
  Rupert Isaacson: so it's Okay, so service gratitude You continue to you're living
• 1:17:51
  in there on this land in these yurts.
• 1:17:53
  You continue to have this successful business you your horses are there
• 1:17:57
  Tell us about Sequoia So when I first met you this is now going back
• 1:18:03
  over over 10 years Sequoia is now 18
• 1:18:07
  Jill Cohen: years.
• 1:18:08
  Wow.
• 1:18:08
  He's
• 1:18:09
  Rupert Isaacson: 23 so
• 1:18:14
  Where's he at now and Where's he on his way to?
• 1:18:21
  Jill Cohen: He is living at the beginning of the pandemic.
• 1:18:24
  It was getting out of hand.
• 1:18:25
  Rachel and Leon, it's just, it's amazing that they're still married.
• 1:18:29
  They're figuring it out.
• 1:18:30
  They're working it.
• 1:18:31
  They're actually doing great.
• 1:18:35
  And it's not the way they thought it was going to look.
• 1:18:39
  Rachel needed a break, a mental, emotional break.
• 1:18:42
  So she left for a few months and then the pandemic hit and Sequoia was here with
• 1:18:48
  Leon and I and a caretaker here, there.
• 1:18:52
  And he got bigger and bigger, and it was becoming unsafe for him, for
• 1:18:59
  the house everything was, it was getting to be really safe, unsafe,
• 1:19:07
  so they called social services and.
• 1:19:11
  The only thing that they could find was there was a rehab place down in Palm
• 1:19:16
  Springs that he could get into and we thought, oh, this was going to be really
• 1:19:19
  great year long program and then the pandemic hit everything got locked down.
• 1:19:27
  They freaked out.
• 1:19:28
  He ended up.
• 1:19:28
  Severely medicated because they didn't know how to handle him.
• 1:19:32
  They didn't know how to be with COVID, not even knowing what COVID was.
• 1:19:38
  We thought we'd be able to go down and visit him every month.
• 1:19:40
  And after a month, it was locked down.
• 1:19:42
  And so he'd been down there.
• 1:19:44
  And in that they promised that they would find a good living situation.
• 1:19:49
  For him, because it wasn't becoming, it wasn't sustainable anymore.
• 1:19:52
  And I, I have some deep regrets.
• 1:19:54
  If not, I was doing my best with my mom and working, but so he's in a group
• 1:20:00
  home about 40 minutes away from here.
• 1:20:03
  There's 3 other fellows about his age and size, and they've got
• 1:20:07
  round the care help and they're all very loving, but they're stuck.
• 1:20:12
  They're just, it's like, everything's just.
• 1:20:14
  At a standstill and
• 1:20:17
  he's surviving, but not really thriving and it's the biggest.
• 1:20:26
  And I've got my mom and I feel in one sense stuck and he's safe and
• 1:20:34
  Rachel and Leon, we do see him.
• 1:20:36
  We do.
• 1:20:36
  They do FaceTime.
• 1:20:37
  They're in communication with his caretakers and doctors and all that there.
• 1:20:43
  It's definitely really hands on.
• 1:20:45
  He eats a good, clean, organic diet, any extra supplements.
• 1:20:49
  It's like they're really working with us.
• 1:20:52
  And yet he's not, I, he's, he's not thriving.
• 1:21:00
  Rupert Isaacson: What do you think, what do you think is going to be the
• 1:21:04
  way through that stuckness for him, given that you've some experience
• 1:21:12
  in getting through stuckness?
• 1:21:15
  What does your gut say?
• 1:21:21
  Jill Cohen: Getting him out of there, even if he has to go to
• 1:21:23
  Ireland to live somewhere kind of more, you know, it's like, you
• 1:21:28
  know, Rachel Lance go so far away.
• 1:21:30
  I said, but he's so far away.
• 1:21:33
  Anyways find a place.
• 1:21:35
  It's like, God, if I had the resources to set something up where it was safe,
• 1:21:40
  it's like, like an island where they could be free and be in nature and.
• 1:21:46
  have the boundaries of the water, he can swim.
• 1:21:50
  So that would be safe, but to find a natural place for him to
• 1:21:54
  be able to, he's nature boy, he loves, he's outside all the time.
• 1:21:58
  Rupert Isaacson: And in, in the place where he's staying, they,
• 1:22:01
  they, they can, he can do that.
• 1:22:02
  He can live that way.
• 1:22:03
  Yeah.
• 1:22:04
  Jill Cohen: There's a backyard, but it's like we wanted them to
• 1:22:06
  get a pool to get a trampoline.
• 1:22:08
  They won't get a trampoline because it's dangerous.
• 1:22:11
  They can't have a pool because.
• 1:22:13
  It's dangerous.
• 1:22:14
  And it's just, so he's got a big fenced in backyard and he could ride his bike a
• 1:22:19
  little bit and he can at least sit on the earth, he can at least sit in the dirt.
• 1:22:24
  Rupert Isaacson: But he's not able to go down to the beach, to
• 1:22:28
  the water, to the forest, to the,
• 1:22:33
  Jill Cohen: yeah.
• 1:22:33
  Because the caretakers have to be able to keep up with them, and they're so
• 1:22:36
  underpaid, and so unfed, and yeah, and and not really educated in what's
• 1:22:43
  Rupert Isaacson: possible.
• 1:22:44
  It's funny you said Ireland.
• 1:22:47
  There is a man called David Doyle, who will not be a guest.
• 1:22:51
  He keeps refusing to be a guest on it.
• 1:22:54
  Show, but I work with David very closely and David is as close as I
• 1:22:59
  have come to meeting the modern day incarnation of the Wizard Merlin.
• 1:23:04
  And he has a severely autistic daughter who also had a great response to horses
• 1:23:11
  and saw a demo of Horse Boy Method that we did in 2012 in Limerick in Ireland.
• 1:23:19
  And he went and set up a place called Li Skin at Farm.
• 1:23:24
  Which is exactly what you've described and the young adults and
• 1:23:30
  adults whose families are maxed out.
• 1:23:37
  They, they cycle through, they spend a few weeks there, and then they cycle back
• 1:23:41
  home, and then they cycle through again.
• 1:23:43
  It's, it's, it's a cyclical thing, and then some of them go on out to something
• 1:23:50
  more independent, and some of them don't, but they all thrive and then
• 1:23:53
  become working parts of the community.
• 1:23:56
  And he's now setting up
• 1:23:57
  And I'm going to put you in touch with him because, and the reason I'm having
• 1:24:04
  this conversation with you here on this podcast is that if you're listening
• 1:24:07
  listeners, this is how things happen.
• 1:24:11
  So unstuckness seems To my mind to happen often through conversation that it's
• 1:24:19
  almost like you say to the okay universe show me the you know You're all powerful.
• 1:24:27
  So all power right already, you know Um, and then one throws that out there with a
• 1:24:33
  bit of gratitude and boom a conversation comes up where the next potential
• 1:24:39
  Think coming and it's so funny to me.
• 1:24:40
  He said even Ireland like out of the blue.
• 1:24:43
  Why did you say, why just Ireland?
• 1:24:45
  You know, all the way in California, there's a bazillion
• 1:24:48
  places in America, surely.
• 1:24:50
  However, it just so happens that in Ireland there is a man
• 1:24:53
  who's setting up these places.
• 1:24:55
  And then there's, there's somebody else who is just in the early stages
• 1:24:59
  of beginning to set up something rather similar around people with schizophrenia.
• 1:25:05
  young adults who've fallen through the cracks, particularly with narcotic
• 1:25:09
  induced schizophrenia, you know, from the very strong forms of overly
• 1:25:13
  syntheticized marijuana that, you know, have come in, in the last 10 or 20 years,
• 1:25:19
  you know, which is very different to the marijuana that we used to smoke.
• 1:25:22
  It's now a completely different thing.
• 1:25:24
  It's, it's, you know, it's so full of THC, it's almost like doing acid and it can,
• 1:25:29
  it can spark psychosis in some people.
• 1:25:31
  So the world has changed, but it, for listeners, I know this, this podcast
• 1:25:36
  seems unusually informal in that like scub came in, Rowan came in and we're
• 1:25:41
  talking with him and now we're riffing in this way, but this is how it's done.
• 1:25:47
  Don't, wouldn't you agree, Jill, that, that it's about reaching out and asking
• 1:25:52
  for help and having conversations with people and not self martyring
• 1:25:58
  and doing this kind of stubborn.
• 1:26:00
  It's good to be stubborn in some ways.
• 1:26:02
  I'm going to get the job done, but not in that I'm going to do it all myself.
• 1:26:09
  Jill Cohen: Right.
• 1:26:09
  It's dreaming ourselves
• 1:26:11
  Rupert Isaacson: awake, dreaming ourselves awake.
• 1:26:14
  Go on.
• 1:26:15
  What do you mean by that?
• 1:26:16
  That
• 1:26:17
  Jill Cohen: it's, we had to dream it to, to have conversations and
• 1:26:21
  dream and start to visualize.
• 1:26:23
  And then it's like, and then it's like, we can see the vision.
• 1:26:27
  I mean, that's how I, it's like the vision came.
• 1:26:30
  You need to find Mongolian healer and boom, there's, you know,
• 1:26:34
  there's a horseplay which led it's.
• 1:26:38
  Dreaming ourselves awake into actualization, dreaming ourselves, we
• 1:26:43
  have to dream it, we have to desire it.
• 1:26:46
  I mean, desire can lead us down so many roads, but it's like the desire for
• 1:26:51
  Sequoia to be happy and fully expressed and living, you know, fully in joy and,
• 1:26:57
  Rupert Isaacson: absolutely.
• 1:26:58
  It seems that we're, we're, we're going to the territory here, which is
• 1:27:01
  good territory of law of attraction.
• 1:27:03
  And this, this idea of when you're unhappy with something, you know,
• 1:27:08
  one's experience of being unhappy with something launches Abraham Hicks
• 1:27:13
  people would say is a rocket of desire.
• 1:27:16
  And those rockets of desire that seem to come out of
• 1:27:19
  frustration in fact set in motion.
• 1:27:23
  The solutions however, there is a danger there of if we turn our
• 1:27:29
  attention to what we don't like and what we don't want all the time, then
• 1:27:32
  we just kind of get more of that.
• 1:27:35
  But, but if we can identify in a certain moment, I want this and then
• 1:27:43
  start to turn our attention to that thing then manifestation can occur.
• 1:27:49
  There's something I really like in the Bible.
• 1:27:51
  Even though I'm not religious there's many great things in the Bible, and
• 1:27:55
  one of them is this business of turning the other cheek in the New Testament.
• 1:27:59
  And when I was growing up, you know, I thought, well, that's
• 1:28:02
  just being a pussy, you know.
• 1:28:04
  Why would you do that?
• 1:28:05
  You know, turn around and smack him.
• 1:28:07
  And then I realized through mentorship and teaching that, not through my
• 1:28:12
  own realizations because I'm not that intelligent, that What it
• 1:28:17
  meant was turning your attention.
• 1:28:19
  So literally your gaze if you turn your gaze from this thing over here That's
• 1:28:23
  causing you discomfort and dis ease.
• 1:28:27
  You can turn your face.
• 1:28:30
  It's to turn your gaze You actually have to move your head Yes You turn
• 1:28:33
  your cheek to look at something that is working in your life or that you
• 1:28:37
  do desire or that is positive and you Simply start going in that direction
• 1:28:41
  because that's now where you're looking you go in the direction where you
• 1:28:43
  look That's how we ride our horses.
• 1:28:47
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:28:48
  Body weight, you know, the horse follows it.
• 1:28:51
  So, that was something I wanted to ask you about.
• 1:28:54
  You seem to be good at manifesting.
• 1:28:57
  You manifested from an early age in your teens, there you were, buying
• 1:29:04
  your first car and going around the world from your pottery, and
• 1:29:09
  then started to use human clay.
• 1:29:13
  And it's done the same thing and you've manifested what many people would look at
• 1:29:18
  it as a dream life when you had to move your The internet froze so Jill had to
• 1:29:24
  move her laptop into her main house from her treatment room and I got a lovely look
• 1:29:30
  at her property And as we were walking through all those oaks I was thinking
• 1:29:34
  that's not bad for someone who's Made their living through body work as a, as a
• 1:29:39
  hippie to buy a piece of land like that.
• 1:29:41
  That's, that's not too shabby.
• 1:29:42
  I make good money.
• 1:29:44
  Yeah.
• 1:29:44
  Yeah.
• 1:29:45
  But, but, you know, a lot of people.
• 1:29:46
  Jill Cohen: And I work three and a half hours a day.
• 1:29:49
  Wow.
• 1:29:49
  Take care of my mom.
• 1:29:50
  And.
• 1:29:52
  Rupert Isaacson: Wow.
• 1:29:52
  So, so, so how does one manifest that?
• 1:29:56
  Because you know
• 1:29:58
  Jill Cohen: desire
• 1:29:58
  Rupert Isaacson: desire go on talk to us
• 1:30:00
  Jill Cohen: more about that So it's like I think it's like yeah from a
• 1:30:03
  spiritual point of view It's like that's what brings us, you know into
• 1:30:07
  another hurt a human birth is our own our unrealized Desires, so it's like
• 1:30:13
  we just keep those desires those, you know, just keep keep moving it That's
• 1:30:20
  how we get it through desire through wanting it and then action How does
• 1:30:25
  Rupert Isaacson: one, how does one desire long term things that have
• 1:30:30
  not manifested without falling into a trap of frustration, and
• 1:30:34
  then putting one's attention on what one therefore doesn't have?
• 1:30:38
  How does one dance the dance between the frustration of desires
• 1:30:42
  that take time to fulfill, to be fulfilled, years, decades even,
• 1:30:45
  without falling into that frustration trap where things can't manifest?
• 1:30:51
  Hmm.
• 1:30:53
  What's the secret?
• 1:30:53
  What's the key?
• 1:30:54
  What's the key?
• 1:30:56
  There's
• 1:30:59
  Jill Cohen: staying focused to where you want to go.
• 1:31:02
  Sometimes it takes time.
• 1:31:05
  Sometimes you have to pause when you don't know what to do next.
• 1:31:09
  And you wait and you listen.
• 1:31:10
  And you, you, like you say, you have the conversations, you have the
• 1:31:15
  conversations and out of the conversation that we don't have to do it all alone.
• 1:31:19
  I mean,
• 1:31:22
  Rupert Isaacson: You weren't always able to work three
• 1:31:24
  hours a day to make good money.
• 1:31:27
  How does one go from.
• 1:31:30
  having to work 15 hours a day to working three hours a day so that
• 1:31:35
  you can make good money and still look after your mom with dementia?
• 1:31:38
  Jill Cohen: You raise your rates raise my rates in time.
• 1:31:43
  I mean, I've got a way, I've got a pretty good waiting list.
• 1:31:46
  I'm booked out about six weeks and I've got a pretty good waiting list.
• 1:31:49
  So if anybody changes, I'm just, Oh, cool.
• 1:31:52
  Then somebody else is going to be able to get in.
• 1:31:54
  I don't stress about scarcity.
• 1:31:56
  I focus on service.
• 1:32:00
  There are people that are in pain that want to get out.
• 1:32:02
  You can't come.
• 1:32:03
  Okay.
• 1:32:03
  Somebody else does want to come.
• 1:32:05
  So it's, it's being, yeah, it's, it's like that pathway of, of service and it just
• 1:32:14
  life shows up.
• 1:32:15
  It's like the, the, the, the Z's part, but
• 1:32:19
  Rupert Isaacson: you say, raise your rates.
• 1:32:20
  Now that's an interesting one.
• 1:32:21
  So a lot of us undervalue ourselves
• 1:32:24
  Jill Cohen: and I think absolutely.
• 1:32:26
  And I still
• 1:32:26
  Rupert Isaacson: do.
• 1:32:27
  Right.
• 1:32:27
  Yeah.
• 1:32:28
  And you know, we might go through some years of imposter syndrome.
• 1:32:32
  Before we realized actually no, we're quite good at our shtick.
• 1:32:35
  We've now been in it for long enough to know that we're good enough.
• 1:32:37
  However, one thing I would say about you, it's one thing to glibly say raise
• 1:32:42
  your rates, but of course you can't raise your rates and have it work unless people
• 1:32:48
  feel that you're worth those rates.
• 1:32:50
  And presumably you're worth those rates because this is back
• 1:32:54
  to self actualization again.
• 1:32:56
  Jill Cohen: Because I do my own inner work.
• 1:32:57
  I can't take people further than I've been so I do my own work.
• 1:33:01
  If I'm going to help somebody that's got emotional blocks or that's what I
• 1:33:04
  do is a lot of emotional tracing work and inner child work and even past life
• 1:33:09
  work and ancestral work and it's like it unless I go in and I do my own work.
• 1:33:15
  I mean, I do plant medicine journeys.
• 1:33:17
  I go in and I, I, I face my.
• 1:33:20
  Myself and it's like if I can do that, then I can guide others
• 1:33:23
  to go in and support them and facing what their roadblocks are.
• 1:33:29
  So you can't take people further than you've been yourself.
• 1:33:32
  I, I know that I get frustrated and I get stuck and I go, okay, Jill, you
• 1:33:37
  need to go deeper when it gets hard.
• 1:33:39
  Go deeper.
• 1:33:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Right?
• 1:33:41
  Right.
• 1:33:41
  So it's really about upskilling, isn't it?
• 1:33:43
  So, I mean, whether those upskills are spiritual or whether they're learning
• 1:33:48
  a skill like a computer program.
• 1:33:50
  Or another way of riding a horse, or a professional skill of some sort.
• 1:33:55
  Or all of the above, which it seems that you do.
• 1:33:57
  It seems that this forever student thing...
• 1:34:00
  Humility
• 1:34:02
  Jill Cohen: of being a beginner humility.
• 1:34:04
  It's like, oh, maybe I don't know everything.
• 1:34:07
  Maybe I need to go learn.
• 1:34:08
  Maybe I need to go deepen my skills.
• 1:34:11
  It's yeah, the humility that I don't know.
• 1:34:13
  And and then, and I come back, I've been practicing 48 years
• 1:34:16
  and I work on my treatment room.
• 1:34:18
  I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
• 1:34:19
  And I just have to trust and show up and listen and and the way we'll.
• 1:34:24
  The way we'll show the way the way we'll, you know, I got to get in the
• 1:34:28
  canoe and I can't dance around it.
• 1:34:33
  You got to do your work.
• 1:34:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Something came into my mind while you were talking about clay and
• 1:34:41
  then human clay, which goes to the heart of the Ashkenazi Jewish story, which some
• 1:34:50
  listeners may know is a magical story.
• 1:34:52
  If you don't, let me just talk you through it quickly.
• 1:34:55
  So, Ashkenazi Judaism, the east, the Jews of Eastern Europe, the
• 1:35:00
  fiddler on the roof Jews who then ended up in New York and South
• 1:35:05
  Africa, which is my family and so on.
• 1:35:07
  They were actually originally not from there.
• 1:35:09
  They were originally from Spain and Portugal.
• 1:35:14
  And yeah, and they were kicked out with, If they got out alive at the end of the
• 1:35:21
  15th century, when the final reconquest of Spain happened and Spain became
• 1:35:28
  under Ferdinand of Isabella, who then sent people off to the new world, who
• 1:35:32
  conquered the last Moorish kingdom of Granada and made Spain Christian again.
• 1:35:37
  And basically if you didn't convert.
• 1:35:40
  If you were Jewish, it had been a, it had been a haven for Judaism and
• 1:35:43
  a very enlightened form of Judaism.
• 1:35:45
  In fact, an alchemical form of Judaism, in fact, a magical practice form of
• 1:35:49
  Judaism called Kabbalah and which came out of the middle ages there
• 1:35:54
  mostly in Spain with a mixture with Islam and, and, and Sufism and so on.
• 1:35:59
  And of course this was anathema and the Spanish inquisition was formed
• 1:36:03
  under Ferdinand and Isabella and went after these people massively.
• 1:36:06
  And if you didn't convert, you were.
• 1:36:09
  Killed nastily and even if you did convert a lot of times you were killed nastily
• 1:36:14
  And so a lot of them went east into the Ottoman Empire, which was a safe haven
• 1:36:20
  Istanbul's now, you know Constantinople Byzantium and then from there a lot of
• 1:36:24
  them up into Up the Black Sea and then settling in the areas north of there
• 1:36:30
  was now Lithuania and Ukraine and so on yeah, and One of the stories that comes
• 1:36:37
  out of that magical Kabbalistic form of Judaism, which is a mystic form of
• 1:36:45
  Judaism, about trying to, the world being in disharmony and trying to bring it back
• 1:36:50
  to harmony through magical use of sacred geometry and numbers and all these sorts
• 1:36:54
  of things was the Legend of the Golem.
• 1:36:59
  And the Legend of the Golem is it, some people say it happened in Vilnius in
• 1:37:05
  Lithuania and some people say it happened in Prague and some people say it happened
• 1:37:09
  here and some people say it seems to be Part of a general consciousness that there
• 1:37:12
  was a the rabbi low was his name who was so in tune with the kabbalah that he could
• 1:37:19
  speak to angels and that when they were going to Attack the ghetto the christians
• 1:37:25
  were going to attack the ghetto At the behest of the king because of course the
• 1:37:29
  jews had been lending the king money and the king didn't want to pay it Back so
• 1:37:32
  it's much easier to just go kill them all.
• 1:37:35
  The rabbi low works through the Kabbalah and takes clay and creates a life in
• 1:37:43
  clay, a golem, this giant made of clay, who lumbers off into the night and saves
• 1:37:52
  the day basically pushes back the torch bearing pitchfork waving hordes who are
• 1:37:56
  going to come and rape, rape and kill everybody in the, in the, in the ghetto.
• 1:38:01
  The reason the word ghetto comes from the Jewish thing, the name of the,
• 1:38:06
  the ghetto is the area of Venice.
• 1:38:08
  where the Jews lived that and it's now come to mean, and it had a
• 1:38:12
  wall around it, like as many Jewish areas did in European cities.
• 1:38:16
  And now that's come to be a ubiquitous term for any neighborhood that is
• 1:38:21
  underserved and enclosed in some way, but it, the ghetto is still there.
• 1:38:25
  It's called the ghetto in in Venice.
• 1:38:29
  That's where it comes from.
• 1:38:30
  And so it's interesting to me.
• 1:38:34
  That there you are working in human clay.
• 1:38:36
  You're coming out of these Ashkenazi roots.
• 1:38:38
  You're manifesting Suffering suffering and joy in the face of
• 1:38:42
  suffering that's fiddler on the roof.
• 1:38:43
  That's the Ashkenazi Jewish experience That's the that's why
• 1:38:47
  we cry when we see that film Yeah spirit the indomitable human spirit.
• 1:38:53
  Yeah, is that not self actualization
• 1:38:57
  Jill Cohen: that absolutely is Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:39:02
  That's what that human spirit for life and for joy and our, I mean,
• 1:39:09
  birthright of what it is to be human, to be joyous, dance and celebrate.
• 1:39:16
  And that we have love and we have the senses to experience
• 1:39:20
  each other and commune and
• 1:39:26
  touch and affect and feed and toast and celebrate
• 1:39:33
  Rupert Isaacson: each other, laugh,
• 1:39:35
  Jill Cohen: yeah, ecstatic dance.
• 1:39:37
  I mean, the Sufis were, you know, they spun to find that ecstatic joy.
• 1:39:43
  We danced the Hora, you know, the Greek dance on tables.
• 1:39:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:39:50
  Dance is a huge thing.
• 1:39:51
  Jill Cohen: And music, music connects us.
• 1:39:54
  Music connects us.
• 1:39:57
  Yeah.
• 1:39:57
  That's one thing Sequoia sang.
• 1:40:00
  We always knew where he was.
• 1:40:02
  He was singing and he would, it was like his little voice.
• 1:40:05
  Sequoia and dancing.
• 1:40:06
  I mean, he would listen to a Katy Perry song once on YouTube and he knew every
• 1:40:12
  word and he would just belt it out.
• 1:40:15
  And that's, that was, that's when he's the most joyous is when he's singing.
• 1:40:20
  He loves music.
• 1:40:21
  Loves music.
• 1:40:23
  I've got the cutest videos and Rachel dancing and yeah, singing, whether it's
• 1:40:28
  on top of old Smokey or, you know, Katy Perry songs, or Is it important to dance?
• 1:40:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Is it important to dance around your kitchen?
• 1:40:39
  Jill Cohen: It's so important to dance.
• 1:40:41
  Oh my, that's what I do with mom when she gets in it.
• 1:40:43
  I turn, I turn music on.
• 1:40:45
  She loves music and we just dance.
• 1:40:48
  We dance, we dance.
• 1:40:52
  Dancing's awesome because that's our, in tribal, that's what the dance
• 1:40:57
  we, there's dance, there's singing.
• 1:41:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Right?
• 1:41:01
  It's that, that the dancing rituals are, are what are healing.
• 1:41:05
  Yeah, there's,
• 1:41:05
  Jill Cohen: there's no place like moves our body, moves ourselves, produces the
• 1:41:09
  oxys and they, you know, it's Keeping our joy, moving it through our spines
• 1:41:14
  and feeling alive feeling, even when I cry, even when I'm sad, I'm grateful
• 1:41:21
  that I can feel, that I can feel that deep I love to sob, to be moved to
• 1:41:27
  sobbing, to, to, to just be so deeply moved, whether it be, you know, in deep
• 1:41:32
  sadness or grief or, or, or sobbing and joy, I mean, it's, it's, it kind
• 1:41:38
  of meets in that place that it's, yeah.
• 1:41:41
  Indistinguishable.
• 1:41:43
  And that's when we feel our aliveness.
• 1:41:47
  Rupert Isaacson: So yeah, there's a, there's, there's a neuroscience to that,
• 1:41:49
  of course, which is that hip rocking movement, you know, dancing, sex any
• 1:41:54
  any empathetic touch brings oxytocin.
• 1:41:57
  Oxytocin is not just feel good hormone.
• 1:42:00
  It's communication hormone.
• 1:42:01
  It's strategy hormone.
• 1:42:03
  It's where you begin to strategize with the other people in your group about
• 1:42:07
  how do we get out of this dilemma.
• 1:42:11
  How do we figure out the next few years blah blah blah without oxytocin our brains
• 1:42:17
  can't do that Steratonin the same thing produced in the gut through the movement
• 1:42:24
  The endorphins that come you talk about sobbing so any Sobbing a good cry brings
• 1:42:29
  endorphins a good meal brings endorphins lots of hard exercise brings endorphins
• 1:42:33
  another Happiness hormone and therefore dopamine where you figure it out The
• 1:42:38
  figuring out the figuring out because all of this you talked about being moved
• 1:42:43
  to do all of these things you have to move would you say that when you feel
• 1:42:47
  stuck and you talked about going deeper?
• 1:42:50
  In stuckness there you are with sequoia.
• 1:42:52
  There you are with your mother's cancer There you are with your mother's dementia
• 1:42:56
  Is it the actual physical movement that leads to the emotional movement that leads
• 1:43:01
  to the movement where you can manifest?
• 1:43:03
  Your way through.
• 1:43:03
  Yeah,
• 1:43:04
  Jill Cohen: sometimes I'll just sit on my ball and I'll bounce or I'll stand
• 1:43:07
  and just Jiggle everything getting all my cells going and everything just bouncing
• 1:43:14
  and moving and livening and awakening And every little cell of my body.
• 1:43:18
  It's happy And you know, it's it's just and in in and in all the cells is all
• 1:43:23
  the information Oh my god ourselves every cell holds the information of
• 1:43:30
  everything in our body, every function.
• 1:43:32
  And it's like just waking all those cells up, getting them going and
• 1:43:35
  community and connection, connection, feeling the connection, feeling
• 1:43:43
  Rupert Isaacson: how, when you're, when you're isolated, I mean, you're there
• 1:43:48
  somewhat in isolation in a rural property.
• 1:43:50
  It's very beautiful, but it's somewhat in isolation.
• 1:43:53
  A lot of people end up isolated because they have the autistic kid that's going
• 1:43:58
  to kick off in the supermarket so they don't want to go out, or they're just so
• 1:44:04
  snowed under, overwhelmed with the demands at home that go, how do you keep that
• 1:44:09
  connection going when you're in isolation?
• 1:44:14
  Jill Cohen: There's just, I mean, look in the dirt.
• 1:44:16
  There's bugs.
• 1:44:17
  That's like, we're never alone.
• 1:44:19
  We think, you know, I went through one time.
• 1:44:21
  I remember it was like, long time ago, beginning of my journey.
• 1:44:24
  I think I was in Sedona and I thought, oh, I feel so alone.
• 1:44:27
  And it was like, I went out on the rocks and I took my drum and I
• 1:44:30
  started drumming and it was like, I looked down and there's bugs down
• 1:44:33
  there and there's clouds up there.
• 1:44:35
  And it's like, it's like, it's the illusion of aloneness.
• 1:44:39
  It's the illusion of seclusion.
• 1:44:41
  It's the illusion of it's it's like, try to be alone.
• 1:44:45
  You can't be alone.
• 1:44:46
  There's like, go try to be alone.
• 1:44:48
  You can't be alone.
• 1:44:49
  There's, there's, there's life everywhere.
• 1:44:54
  We're sitting on a planet that is connected to everything.
• 1:44:57
  And through the mycelium, we're totally connected.
• 1:45:00
  We're not, we, every, all the waters flow together.
• 1:45:03
  It's like, we're never, we can't be alone.
• 1:45:06
  Even if we want to be alone, we can't be alone.
• 1:45:07
  And it's the illusion of aloneness.
• 1:45:09
  It's the illusion of
• 1:45:10
  Rupert Isaacson: the aloneness.
• 1:45:11
  Is it allowing yourself to go trans species?
• 1:45:15
  Yeah,
• 1:45:16
  Jill Cohen: yeah.
• 1:45:17
  Just have to quiet down and be still and present and you, you start to feel
• 1:45:22
  the connections and the communication and you can hear you know, your
• 1:45:28
  horses talking and the dogs and the birds and the crows and it's like...
• 1:45:34
  It's yeah, well, if we can quiet down enough to hear, there's,
• 1:45:40
  it's constant communication.
• 1:45:41
  It's communing.
• 1:45:44
  Rupert Isaacson: So movement, movement.
• 1:45:47
  But it sounds also like nature, therefore, the trans species thing.
• 1:45:51
  The connection to the, to the great web.
• 1:45:54
  So I guess if you're sitting in a room, not moving, looking
• 1:45:59
  at a computer screen, and...
• 1:46:01
  Not going outside into It's not Okay, so those two things would you
• 1:46:08
  Jill Cohen: say go outside sit on the ground go outside
• 1:46:13
  look at the clouds Go outside.
• 1:46:16
  You've got to be able to find a leaf or something.
• 1:46:18
  There's birds or There's yeah, get outside, get your
• 1:46:24
  feet dirty, touch the earth.
• 1:46:28
  Rupert Isaacson: Now you're gonna, we're gonna have some listeners who might feel,
• 1:46:33
  I hate going outside, going outside is mosquitoes, going outside is getting dirty
• 1:46:39
  and gritty, going outside is, you know.
• 1:46:42
  That just sounds like a bunch of hippie BS to me.
• 1:46:45
  What's your answer to that?
• 1:46:47
  Jill Cohen: Well, then stay stuck.
• 1:46:48
  Stay stuck, Vin.
• 1:46:49
  Go for it.
• 1:46:51
  It's your choice.
• 1:46:53
  There's a choice.
• 1:46:54
  Go get dirty.
• 1:46:55
  See what it feels like to be dirty.
• 1:46:56
  You may fall in love with the dirt, you know?
• 1:46:59
  You may fall in love with a bug.
• 1:47:01
  Rupert Isaacson: It seems to me very much that in the course of the work
• 1:47:05
  that I do, where one's dealing with depression or trauma or something like
• 1:47:11
  that, and that what it often seems to come down to for me is sadness.
• 1:47:16
  That there's a profound sadness.
• 1:47:18
  Running through our culture, which the more I look at it seems to
• 1:47:24
  come from a disassociation with the environment that we are pre
• 1:47:30
  programmed as an organism to be in.
• 1:47:33
  If you, if you put a goldfish in a bowl, it's going to be a bit depressed.
• 1:47:39
  If you, if it's swimming out there in the river, okay, predator might
• 1:47:42
  get it, but nonetheless, it's again, self actualized or whatever.
• 1:47:46
  But we're like zoo animals.
• 1:47:48
  And even zoos have evolved.
• 1:47:50
  Conditioned.
• 1:47:51
  Well, and they've evolved now.
• 1:47:52
  They've got great habitats and, you know, they've learned from the past
• 1:47:55
  and now can create happiness for animals and rebreed endangered species
• 1:48:01
  that they put back in the wild.
• 1:48:03
  But we're not putting ourselves back in the wild, are we?
• 1:48:07
  Jill Cohen: It's the old messaging.
• 1:48:08
  It's like somebody said, Oh, don't get dirty.
• 1:48:10
  You'll get sick.
• 1:48:11
  There's germs or it's the programming.
• 1:48:13
  It's like, you know, or don't do that because you've got to do this.
• 1:48:18
  And it's the programming that we're spoon fed that comes down from the
• 1:48:25
  grandmas and the grandmas and grandmas.
• 1:48:27
  It's like, who said that?
• 1:48:29
  It's like, it's like, unsay it, say something else,
• 1:48:34
  choose something different.
• 1:48:36
  Rupert Isaacson: It's really interesting.
• 1:48:37
  Yesterday I was, I live in Germany, as some listeners know, and we drove
• 1:48:42
  north to a family reunion in a very rural area of Hessen, where we live.
• 1:48:49
  And Hessen is the area where the Brothers Grimm stories mostly come from.
• 1:48:54
  The north part of Hessen.
• 1:48:55
  It's a lot of forest.
• 1:48:57
  And Little Red Riding Hood.
• 1:48:59
  Comes from scary stories.
• 1:49:01
  They were scary stories little red riding hood comes from a the area around
• 1:49:05
  a town called asphalt which is a very beautiful little gothic town still today
• 1:49:11
  and You think of it as this girl who?
• 1:49:15
  Was you know a bit of a free spirit going through the woods and of course, it's the
• 1:49:20
  big bad wolf Yeah, and it's it's basically a story about don't don't be a free
• 1:49:24
  spirit the little red riding hood I didn't realize until yesterday what the, the,
• 1:49:31
  it, it's a mistranslation from the German.
• 1:49:33
  It's a Rosenkappchen.
• 1:49:34
  It's a little red riding, it's a little red cap.
• 1:49:37
  And these little caps that they wore, that they made the girls wear 200
• 1:49:41
  years ago was like this little square red thing fixed on the top of the head
• 1:49:52
  with a, it's like, a bit like a hijab.
• 1:49:55
  with, with a, with, with, with all the hair tied rigidly back
• 1:50:00
  and in this top knot on the, with, with this sort of red thing.
• 1:50:04
  And then a hijab basically around the jaws, around the face,
• 1:50:08
  basically keeping the jaw shut.
• 1:50:10
  So you didn't talk too much.
• 1:50:12
  Wound tight of black.
• 1:50:15
  Material and the women had to walk around like this for their entire life from
• 1:50:21
  being a little girl Keep their mouth shut.
• 1:50:22
  Keep their mouth shut and you know, don't go self expressed.
• 1:50:25
  So weirdly you think you think of okay You know 200 years ago.
• 1:50:29
  It was so much better.
• 1:50:30
  You know, the world was more natural And then you have these
• 1:50:36
  stories about don't go touch nature.
• 1:50:39
  That's the big bad wolf.
• 1:50:40
  Don't go walk through the forest by yourself and Toe the line.
• 1:50:45
  Germs.
• 1:50:46
  Germs.
• 1:50:46
  Yeah.
• 1:50:46
  And
• 1:50:46
  Jill Cohen: everybody's got stomach problems.
• 1:50:50
  Rupert Isaacson: From not enough germs.
• 1:50:50
  Yeah.
• 1:50:51
  From not enough germs.
• 1:50:52
  And the stomach problems become brain problems because brain health and
• 1:50:55
  gut health are connected obviously.
• 1:50:58
  Yeah.
• 1:50:59
  So when people are stuck, Jill,
• 1:51:05
  and they're saying, they say, I'm in Jill's situation.
• 1:51:09
  I'm stuck looking after a sick relative.
• 1:51:12
  I'm stuck.
• 1:51:13
  Looking after a special needs kid.
• 1:51:14
  I'm stuck.
• 1:51:17
  Give us your one, two, three of
• 1:51:20
  Jill Cohen: unstuck.
• 1:51:20
  Go outside and look around.
• 1:51:25
  Just go outside and look around.
• 1:51:28
  It's that's just the dirt.
• 1:51:31
  Sit on the dirt.
• 1:51:32
  Notice, listen to a bird.
• 1:51:34
  How can you not be joyful listening to a bird?
• 1:51:37
  It takes you into the present moment of the chirp.
• 1:51:40
  It's like, it's so easy to just go outside.
• 1:51:44
  I mean, there's.
• 1:51:46
  I mean, we can see clouds here.
• 1:51:48
  It's not smart.
• 1:51:50
  I mean, it's just kind of laying on Lake Austin, you know, it's like,
• 1:51:55
  just go outside and look at a cloud.
• 1:51:57
  And everything is just, it expands your awareness.
• 1:52:00
  It takes you out of that tight, stuck, trapped place to expansion of what's
• 1:52:06
  possible and start to dream yourself awake
• 1:52:10
  Rupert Isaacson: to go outside.
• 1:52:13
  So move, that's the go outside bit, move, move, and then go
• 1:52:17
  outside and then put your feet
• 1:52:18
  Jill Cohen: on the ground and your head in the clouds and the head
• 1:52:23
  in the clouds and get bit, expand.
• 1:52:26
  Just let yourself dream what could, you know, you know, to drink out
• 1:52:31
  what people are afraid to dream.
• 1:52:34
  It's like, who am I to dream?
• 1:52:36
  It's it's like dream there.
• 1:52:37
  Nobody, nobody's died from crying.
• 1:52:40
  Nobody's.
• 1:52:41
  Nobody's, it doesn't hurt anything to dream and you start to dream and you
• 1:52:48
  any things become possible even if it's one little thing, one little thought.
• 1:52:58
  Rupert Isaacson: When did we move away from dreaming as a culture?
• 1:53:01
  That's an interesting one, isn't it?
• 1:53:02
  That you have, we have this thing called mythology, right?
• 1:53:06
  We have this thing called religion.
• 1:53:07
  We have, what are those but dreams?
• 1:53:08
  You know, we have this thing called culture.
• 1:53:10
  What is culture but an idea that somebody had and other people had ideas, which
• 1:53:15
  meant that it came together for a culture, which those ideas had to be.
• 1:53:18
  Thoughts at some point which thought is aka dream and then you've got
• 1:53:23
  no choice about dreaming Right.
• 1:53:24
  Anyway, your brain daydreams whether you want to or not, of
• 1:53:27
  course you dream at night When did we decide that that was something
• 1:53:33
  to put as a oh, you're a dreamer.
• 1:53:34
  You're just a dreamer Well, when did that become a bad
• 1:53:37
  Jill Cohen: right in school stop daydreaming pay attention It's like isn't
• 1:53:41
  that that part of the brain or little to be able to dream in our imagination?
• 1:53:48
  Hmm.
• 1:53:48
  That imagination, it wasn't okay to just space out.
• 1:53:52
  You know?
• 1:53:54
  It's like, come back here.
• 1:53:56
  Stop dreaming.
• 1:53:58
  Yeah.
• 1:53:58
  In school.
• 1:54:00
  In school.
• 1:54:00
  Stop daydreaming or pay attention.
• 1:54:04
  Rupert Isaacson: And of course, what was school?
• 1:54:05
  School was a way to get people to work in the factories.
• 1:54:08
  Exactly right.
• 1:54:09
  Where indoctrinate to dream.
• 1:54:12
  No one's gonna, no one's gonna dream their way into a factory, or no one's gonna
• 1:54:16
  dream their way into being cannon fodder.
• 1:54:18
  I mean, unless you give them shit dreams, I mean, I guess you could argue
• 1:54:22
  that the young Russians that, you know, sign up for Wagner private minute, you
• 1:54:27
  know, mercenary company or whatever have been down such a shit rabbit hole of
• 1:54:32
  depression that that's the only dream they can dream to get out of that.
• 1:54:36
  But it's complete manipulation.
• 1:54:38
  They're being manipulated by men in power to go and die in that tens
• 1:54:42
  of thousands on the battlefield.
• 1:54:44
  And of course that's been going on for thousands of years.
• 1:54:46
  But it seems to be about social control and manipulation.
• 1:54:49
  Wouldn't you agree?
• 1:54:51
  Jill Cohen: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:54:52
  Because in the old traditions, it's like, you know, I've I've gone into
• 1:54:56
  the Kiva and we dream for like four days and that's when we let go and let
• 1:55:01
  our spirits fly in the inner realms and get informed of what's possible.
• 1:55:09
  Rupert Isaacson: And it seems to me that, I mean, you're, you're
• 1:55:11
  the living proof of this, that you can, you can have these values.
• 1:55:16
  Movement, nature, go outside, dance around the kitchen go into go on a
• 1:55:20
  vision quest of four days, be a total hippie, and yet still make money.
• 1:55:24
  And yet still run a business.
• 1:55:26
  It's as if, again, back to where we began, that people think that
• 1:55:30
  these two things are somehow mutually exclusive from each other.
• 1:55:33
  And what I've found, again, through this Live Free, Ride Free podcast, but
• 1:55:36
  that's partly why I decided to do it, was that most people I know who are the
• 1:55:41
  most successful, they dream all the time.
• 1:55:44
  And they, they really prioritize it.
• 1:55:46
  They, they, they go...
• 1:55:49
  Jill Cohen: I love my dream
• 1:55:49
  Rupert Isaacson: time.
• 1:55:51
  So is, is, is that, is that really the key to unstuckness?
• 1:55:56
  Is the dreaming.
• 1:55:59
  Jill Cohen: It's a piece of it.
• 1:56:01
  It's a big piece of it is to dream and to, and to, and it's that
• 1:56:07
  young, that, that young messaging.
• 1:56:10
  Sometimes we have to, it's like, our parents are done bringing us up.
• 1:56:13
  We're 18 or 21.
• 1:56:14
  We're on our own.
• 1:56:15
  And then we get to continue to raise ourselves.
• 1:56:18
  And give ourselves that positive, you know, like my mother, when I was
• 1:56:22
  young, she told me, Jill, you can do and be whatever you want to be, do.
• 1:56:26
  It was like, there was no limits.
• 1:56:27
  It was like, that was the messaging they gave me.
• 1:56:29
  I was like, oh, oh, oh.
• 1:56:33
  And it's, and, and even if people didn't get that when they were
• 1:56:38
  little, they can begin now.
• 1:56:39
  We need to then take over our own parenting and continue to raise
• 1:56:46
  that stuck inner child, which is.
• 1:56:49
  You know, some of the work that I do is going back to the wounds of
• 1:56:53
  the inner child and letting them self express and get it out and yell
• 1:56:58
  and scream and cry and fear and.
• 1:57:01
  All that and then go in as the parent or have them bring their higher self
• 1:57:09
  in to then say, well, what's possible.
• 1:57:12
  What qualities do you want to give that little child that they didn't
• 1:57:16
  get when they were young and have them receive those qualities to be
• 1:57:20
  able to dream and imagine a quality.
• 1:57:24
  And and release that old wounded part and begin to raise and
• 1:57:29
  foster our own woundedness.
• 1:57:35
  Rupert Isaacson: It's our birthright.
• 1:57:37
  Jill Cohen: It's our birthright.
• 1:57:38
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 1:57:39
  Right.
• 1:57:40
  It's everybody's birthright to, to actually to live
• 1:57:44
  through their imagination.
• 1:57:45
  And it's the reality of life that you, everyone does actually live through
• 1:57:49
  their imagination whether they think it or not, whether they realize it or not,
• 1:57:53
  they, they, they think something up.
• 1:57:56
  And they go off into that reality.
• 1:57:57
  That's
• 1:57:58
  Jill Cohen: creation.
• 1:57:58
  That's creativity.
• 1:58:01
  An artist creates from something from nothing.
• 1:58:04
  Right, but
• 1:58:04
  Rupert Isaacson: even, even, even when one's saying...
• 1:58:08
  Angst, and yeah.
• 1:58:10
  Paint the angst.
• 1:58:11
  Jill Cohen: Okay.
• 1:58:12
  Express it.
• 1:58:13
  Don't let it stay in there, but express it.
• 1:58:16
  Express it.
• 1:58:17
  Let it get big.
• 1:58:18
  Exaggerate
• 1:58:19
  Rupert Isaacson: it.
• 1:58:19
  And then if you do that, how does that in the law of attraction,
• 1:58:23
  not just make more of it come?
• 1:58:26
  Jill Cohen: You focus on something, you focus on what you want.
• 1:58:29
  It's like you go into your heart and go, what do I really want?
• 1:58:32
  So many people have no clue what they want.
• 1:58:34
  They don't want this, but they, they don't have a clue of what
• 1:58:37
  they want, how they want it to be.
• 1:58:40
  It's like, well, you don't like this, but.
• 1:58:43
  What do you like and then be in the realm of, Oh, this brings me joy.
• 1:58:47
  That brings me joy.
• 1:58:48
  And then it just, it kind of blossoms, it grows and percolates and bubbles up.
• 1:58:52
  And then it's like, you go, Oh yeah, it's like, yeah, I had a client that
• 1:58:56
  was just got back from Greece and they spent five days swimming three miles a
• 1:59:01
  day and I just went, Oh my God, I forgot how much I love to swim in the ocean.
• 1:59:07
  And it's like, I'm going to go get myself a new wetsuit and.
• 1:59:11
  There's a group that swims Sunday mornings and I'm going to start swimming again
• 1:59:16
  because I love to be in the ocean I love to swim and it was just through that.
• 1:59:19
  Oh, yeah, I remember.
• 1:59:21
  Oh, that sounds fun It's like starting to imagine and then feel and then oh, yeah
• 1:59:27
  I remember what that feels like to be in the ocean and moving my body and breathing
• 1:59:31
  and being in the you know But so eels and
• 1:59:35
  Rupert Isaacson: so we talk about dream time Earlier in this podcast,
• 1:59:39
  we talked about that you need to go talk to people in order to find
• 1:59:44
  solutions, reach out for help, but also, you know, have conversations.
• 1:59:49
  I think you just hit on something.
• 1:59:49
  What is a conversation but a shared dream?
• 1:59:52
  Jill Cohen: A shared dream.
• 1:59:54
  Absolutely.
• 1:59:55
  We share our dreams.
• 1:59:56
  And that's something that I would do with a group of people that I was with.
• 2:00:00
  We were studying Mayan medicine wheel and the directions and
• 2:00:06
  we would go into the Kiva.
• 2:00:07
  We would dream for four days in the wintertime.
• 2:00:10
  We'd go in and our dreams would come and then we would share our
• 2:00:13
  dreams and we would inspire each each other and, and awaken them.
• 2:00:19
  Forgot forgotten dreams, you know, sometimes we have these
• 2:00:22
  dreams and then we push them away.
• 2:00:24
  We forget them.
• 2:00:25
  Then we remind each other of shared dreams and and it all starts to happen.
• 2:00:33
  It's like, oh, yeah, I had that idea.
• 2:00:35
  I forgot about that.
• 2:00:37
  And it's the isolation.
• 2:00:38
  It's just staying.
• 2:00:41
  And touch is so important.
• 2:00:43
  It's like staying in touch with people, but, but touch is so important.
• 2:00:47
  It's like, it's like, I can touch somebody and it wakes up memories.
• 2:00:51
  Just that touch and being in touch and connected and having
• 2:00:57
  ourselves all be touched.
• 2:00:59
  And then.
• 2:01:01
  Resonated and then they all remember because I think all our memories are
• 2:01:05
  stored in ourselves and the water of life.
• 2:01:11
  What do we do to remember to become whole again to be member to remember,
• 2:01:17
  there's a lot in, you know, there's a lot of bullshit that we don't need to
• 2:01:20
  remember, but there are a lot of core things that to remember, to remember
• 2:01:25
  what clean, fresh water tastes like and crisp air in our nostrils to
• 2:01:31
  remember those feelings of aliveness.
• 2:01:33
  And then when we start to remember, it's like, Oh yeah.
• 2:01:37
  And that awakens the desire and, and moves us forward.
• 2:01:41
  And then we We share it, and we talk about it, and we're a
• 2:01:44
  community, and let's do this.
• 2:01:48
  Rupert Isaacson: What do we do?
• 2:01:49
  What does somebody do?
• 2:01:50
  You talk about touch.
• 2:01:51
  So, for example, there's the good and the bad of the social media age.
• 2:01:55
  The good of the social media age is, look, here we are, we're talking on Zoom.
• 2:01:58
  I'm in Germany.
• 2:01:59
  You're in California.
• 2:02:00
  We're in touch.
• 2:02:01
  We're sharing the stream.
• 2:02:03
  We're, we're communicating.
• 2:02:04
  Of course, we already know each other, but even if we didn't, we could do this.
• 2:02:08
  Yeah.
• 2:02:08
  Jill Cohen: Yeah.
• 2:02:09
  Yeah, I didn't know you when I didn't know you.
• 2:02:11
  Right.
• 2:02:11
  Rupert Isaacson: However, however, you know, the not so good side of social media
• 2:02:16
  is staring into a computer all day not being in physical contact with people,
• 2:02:19
  not being in actual contact with people.
• 2:02:20
  And one has to find that balance.
• 2:02:22
  Okay, fine.
• 2:02:24
  Go get touched.
• 2:02:25
  Yeah, so how do you, what do you do if you live a life where
• 2:02:29
  you've got no one to touch?
• 2:02:30
  What do you do to, to, to make sure that that...
• 2:02:35
  You touch yourself.
• 2:02:37
  Jill Cohen: Okay.
• 2:02:37
  I mean, you can talk.
• 2:02:39
  We've got ourselves, right?
• 2:02:41
  Ourselves.
• 2:02:42
  I do self work on myself all the time.
• 2:02:44
  What else?
• 2:02:45
  I'm always massaging myself.
• 2:02:47
  And then I'm drinking water, drinking good water, hydrating.
• 2:02:53
  That's fluidity movement.
• 2:02:55
  We had the fluidity, the water.
• 2:02:57
  And then, and then the fluidity is like the emotions start to
• 2:03:01
  come up and then the feelings.
• 2:03:02
  And then we, and then we have the longing Comes to be with other people and then
• 2:03:07
  we reach out even if it's just talking to somebody or sharing Your sadness or you're
• 2:03:14
  stuck in you you you're you're stuck in this you you reach out you talk about it
• 2:03:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Is this is this also where the the the getting out of one
• 2:03:23
  species thing happens to be useful?
• 2:03:25
  So for example, let's say You haven't got a human in your life that you can touch.
• 2:03:30
  Okay, you can touch yourself.
• 2:03:31
  You could also book a massage, but but you can pet a dog, right?
• 2:03:36
  Yeah.
• 2:03:37
  And you can put your hand on the earth and you can go and hug a tree.
• 2:03:43
  And the tree hugging thing is so interesting to me, how
• 2:03:48
  people feel so weird about it.
• 2:03:51
  And then the science got done on it.
• 2:03:52
  And of course, what did they find?
• 2:03:54
  But that the electromagnetic frequency is being thrown out by large trees.
• 2:04:00
  Enormous and
• 2:04:01
  Jill Cohen: enormous because those roots go into the earth and the roots touch
• 2:04:05
  all the other roots and all the mycelium, you know, that spreads over that's
• 2:04:09
  Rupert Isaacson: the earth itself made
• 2:04:10
  Jill Cohen: and then the communication comes and you start hearing things
• 2:04:15
  Rupert Isaacson: and it just flat out makes you feel good.
• 2:04:17
  You know, I mean, you might feel silly, you might feel self
• 2:04:19
  conscious, but it feels good.
• 2:04:21
  So it's the idea of touch, the idea of don't, don't
• 2:04:24
  limit it to one's own species.
• 2:04:26
  Now think, think about rocks, think about animals.
• 2:04:28
  Think about.
• 2:04:30
  Think about the air moving on your skin, or as you said, the cold water,
• 2:04:35
  you know, being in the water, whether it's internally moving through you or
• 2:04:39
  moving in the ocean, that's all touched.
• 2:04:41
  And that
• 2:04:41
  Jill Cohen: connects us and then we're connected and then we're not as alone.
• 2:04:45
  We're not as secluded.
• 2:04:49
  Rupert Isaacson: So there are always solutions, we just have to dream them up.
• 2:04:52
  Jill Cohen: Yeah, we have to be willing to get, to be, we have to
• 2:04:55
  be willing to go deeper into our stuckness, to have it be so stuck
• 2:05:01
  that you just can't be stuck anymore.
• 2:05:03
  Is that...
• 2:05:03
  I mean, it's just...
• 2:05:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Is that what you find in sort of all, all mythologies?
• 2:05:11
  This idea of the journey through the underworld, is that what that is?
• 2:05:16
  Jill Cohen: Yeah, I think so.
• 2:05:18
  The mystery.
• 2:05:20
  Curiosity.
• 2:05:21
  Curiosity is soft.
• 2:05:25
  And openness.
• 2:05:28
  Because if you're curious, stuckness is contraction and small and tight.
• 2:05:34
  Curiosity is like, Oh, maybe there is something out there.
• 2:05:37
  Oh, maybe there is a possibility of not having to be stuck.
• 2:05:43
  The possibility.
• 2:05:45
  Rupert Isaacson: And what is curiosity, I suppose, but movement?
• 2:05:47
  Because the moment you're curious about something, you move towards it.
• 2:05:51
  Yeah.
• 2:05:51
  You just, you just do, right?
• 2:05:52
  Physically, mentally, emotionally, you move towards it.
• 2:05:55
  You can't
• 2:05:55
  Jill Cohen: help it.
• 2:05:56
  Yeah.
• 2:05:56
  Yeah.
• 2:05:57
  Because we're hunting animals.
• 2:05:58
  And that's how children are.
• 2:06:00
  They're curious because they're just, everything's new and they haven't been
• 2:06:06
  programmed yet to don't touch, don't get dirty, don't talk to that person.
• 2:06:12
  Rupert Isaacson: It's joy, curiosity.
• 2:06:16
  Jill Cohen: I think joy, yeah, it's like a full expression of being alive
• 2:06:24
  is joy is the expression of aliveness of every little cell in the curious of
• 2:06:33
  not knowing we're stuck when we think we know everything we're stuck being
• 2:06:38
  open to the possibility of, oh, that we
• 2:06:41
  Rupert Isaacson: can be stuck without knowing we're stuck.
• 2:06:44
  That's interesting.
• 2:06:45
  Oh yeah.
• 2:06:45
  So yeah, so you can know you're stuck.
• 2:06:47
  There you are.
• 2:06:47
  Oh yeah.
• 2:06:48
  You're, you're, you are doing Sequoia 24 7.
• 2:06:50
  There you are doing your mother's cancer.
• 2:06:52
  There you are, you're doing your mother's dementia and you say, okay, I'm stuck.
• 2:06:55
  I'm actually physically can't mo leave this property.
• 2:06:58
  I'm stuck.
• 2:06:59
  But you're right actually.
• 2:07:01
  But I can dream.
• 2:07:03
  You dream and I can dream and I can dream what's next.
• 2:07:04
  And imagine, or I could be moving through life making, you know,
• 2:07:10
  apparently successful, but not really curious about anything and not.
• 2:07:15
  Not developing, that's pretty
• 2:07:16
  Jill Cohen: stuck, that's stuck, that would be stuck in
• 2:07:19
  my, that's a different stuck.
• 2:07:20
  It's a less, it's kind of a covert stuckness.
• 2:07:24
  That's obvious.
• 2:07:27
  Yeah.
• 2:07:29
  Yeah.
• 2:07:30
  Just going down those, those neural pathways that have
• 2:07:32
  just been there forever.
• 2:07:34
  And you're not even aware there's another track to go down.
• 2:07:39
  Sometimes we need to take wrong turns in life.
• 2:07:42
  Well,
• 2:07:43
  Rupert Isaacson: absolutely.
• 2:07:43
  I was just last night interviewing for the other podcast, which
• 2:07:47
  is Equine Assisted World.
• 2:07:49
  I was interviewing Dr.
• 2:07:50
  Steven Peters, who's a neuroscientist and neurosurgeon who also happens to be a
• 2:07:54
  horseman and also happens to be autistic.
• 2:07:57
  And he said, Ru, it all comes down to axons and dendrites.
• 2:08:01
  And I said, what do you mean?
• 2:08:03
  And he said, well, if you're curious.
• 2:08:06
  What happens is you reach out and you touch things and you have these sensory
• 2:08:11
  experiences Which then inform your brain about what's out there and that causes
• 2:08:16
  your brain to forge new neural pathways First in big ways that are called axons
• 2:08:21
  and then out in little like branches and then Dendrites Little twigs which are the
• 2:08:28
  dendrites and that these need to when they find other dendrites they fuse with them
• 2:08:33
  And then create neural pathways and that you can always create new neural pathways.
• 2:08:37
  But if you don't do that, that's basically what depression is.
• 2:08:39
  And that's what he said.
• 2:08:40
  Rupert.
• 2:08:40
  It's.
• 2:08:41
  Exactly.
• 2:08:42
  And he said, you've got to be your own internal gardener, your own internal
• 2:08:45
  forester to create as many dendrites in your brain as you possibly can.
• 2:08:49
  And it was so nice to have it sort of put in those.
• 2:08:54
  Okay.
• 2:08:54
  Dendrites.
• 2:08:55
  I'm on it.
• 2:08:55
  Let's go get some dendrites.
• 2:08:58
  Jill Cohen: Well, that's what John Barnes, my, my, a fascial teacher, he says,
• 2:09:01
  you know, it's depression only leads to something happens and then you have a
• 2:09:05
  decision, you make a decision about it and then you don't do anything about it.
• 2:09:09
  And then everything tightens up and you're stuck and it's like, just put your hand
• 2:09:15
  on somebody and then it's like, create space and do neural pathways open up
• 2:09:20
  the river can flow the fluids can flow.
• 2:09:23
  Right?
• 2:09:24
  And so it's.
• 2:09:25
  Rupert Isaacson: And petting the dog, putting the hand on the earth,
• 2:09:27
  hugging the tree, jumping in the water, that, what's that going to do?
• 2:09:29
  It cause dendrites in your brain.
• 2:09:30
  It's going to create new neural
• 2:09:31
  Jill Cohen: pathways.
• 2:09:32
  Absolutely.
• 2:09:33
  Yes.
• 2:09:33
  And awakened and alive and, and yeah, because depression is
• 2:09:39
  Rupert Isaacson: stuck.
• 2:09:40
  They ought to teach us neuroscience in school, shouldn't they?
• 2:09:44
  Because if they, can you imagine if one got these, these, these user manuals to
• 2:09:47
  the brain, you know, these basic concepts, 10, you know, that one could go on and.
• 2:09:56
  Yeah.
• 2:09:56
  Instead of having to try to prize these neuroscientists out of their
• 2:10:00
  ivory towers to come and talk to us.
• 2:10:02
  Right.
• 2:10:03
  But, you know, when he said that,
• 2:10:04
  Jill Cohen: it's like, and only if you go to college or university or yeah.
• 2:10:08
  Rupert Isaacson: But anyone
• 2:10:09
  Jill Cohen: can.
• 2:10:11
  Right.
• 2:10:11
  Your kids or the littles could do it.
• 2:10:13
  Yeah,
• 2:10:13
  Rupert Isaacson: exactly.
• 2:10:14
  Exactly.
• 2:10:15
  In fact, I'd say the younger the kid, the more they get it because
• 2:10:18
  they're not, you know, you can.
• 2:10:20
  Right.
• 2:10:21
  Jill Cohen: It's a simple, they don't have a ton of belief systems that push it out.
• 2:10:25
  Yeah.
• 2:10:25
  Right.
• 2:10:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 2:10:26
  Yeah.
• 2:10:28
  Dendrites.
• 2:10:28
  Cool.
• 2:10:29
  Dendrites.
• 2:10:31
  Dendrites and love it.
• 2:10:32
  Getting unstuck.
• 2:10:33
  Axons, dendrites.
• 2:10:35
  Get your ass moving
• 2:10:37
  Jill Cohen: out.
• 2:10:37
  Get your boot, get
• 2:10:39
  Rupert Isaacson: your booty moving.
• 2:10:40
  Alright, listen.
• 2:10:43
  But I need to do . Yeah.
• 2:10:44
  I know you've sat here looking at this screen for a while.
• 2:10:47
  Well, let's begin to wrap up.
• 2:10:50
  What are you dreaming?
• 2:10:51
  Where are you dreaming yourself to now?
• 2:10:53
  In this apparent stuckness, where, where, where, where you're going,
• 2:10:57
  Jill Cohen: I'm dreaming a future for Sequoia.
• 2:11:00
  That's really where my biggest stuckness is.
• 2:11:02
  My mom has lived a beautiful life.
• 2:11:04
  I'm caring for her.
• 2:11:06
  She's, and it's like, at some point, her journey is going to conclude
• 2:11:11
  and I will have time and energy and making good money and saving money.
• 2:11:18
  And I want to keep having conversations of what's possible for Sequoia and
• 2:11:24
  all the kids that are out there on the spectrum, because that's the biggest
• 2:11:27
  pain, stuckness that, you know, like my mom said the other day, she was
• 2:11:33
  in one of her mood and she goes, if I was gone, you'd be totally happy.
• 2:11:36
  I said, no.
• 2:11:37
  I've got square.
• 2:11:39
  It's like, I'm never going to be happy until I feel that he is living his,
• 2:11:43
  he's always going to be autistic.
• 2:11:44
  I love that with them.
• 2:11:45
  It's like we were in Scotland and being, it was like, it was so
• 2:11:48
  much fricking fun being autistic.
• 2:11:50
  It's like, so free.
• 2:11:52
  It's like, as Scott says, it's like ego lists.
• 2:11:55
  It's like to just be you without any.
• 2:11:59
  You know, committee, they're saying you shouldn't do that.
• 2:12:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so the new dream, the dendrites are going to come, the
• 2:12:08
  new dendrites are going to come through now dreaming this life for Sequoia.
• 2:12:16
  What's that life?
• 2:12:18
  So shut your eyes, tell us, let your dendrites fuse, and tell us the picture.
• 2:12:26
  What does it look like?
• 2:12:27
  What's happening in Sequoia's life?
• 2:12:29
  And then.
• 2:12:30
  How do we dream ourselves?
• 2:12:31
  I
• 2:12:31
  Jill Cohen: can see him out in nature, being able to wander being able to sit
• 2:12:37
  on the ground, being able to eat from the garden, be able to pick berries
• 2:12:43
  being able to swim in the lake being able to sing at the top of his lungs
• 2:12:48
  and feel fully expressed and joyous.
• 2:12:52
  To have community around him that loves him and supports him
• 2:13:01
  Rupert Isaacson: as part of this dream.
• 2:13:04
  Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you say what you were going
• 2:13:05
  Jill Cohen: to say.
• 2:13:06
  Just to be able to have peace inside of his own body.
• 2:13:14
  Yeah, for the, for the, for the volume to come down for him.
• 2:13:18
  I think the volume's so turned up.
• 2:13:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Because service is so integral to human happiness and
• 2:13:27
  joy, how in this can Sequoia find his way to service, to be of service,
• 2:13:35
  so that he can find that mature type of fulfillment and happiness?
• 2:13:41
  Where do you see him serving?
• 2:13:44
  Jill Cohen: I have to see him out of his stuckness.
• 2:13:48
  I
• 2:13:49
  can see him.
• 2:13:51
  Wow.
• 2:13:52
  I had a vision many, many years ago, and he was little and projecting
• 2:13:56
  out in time, and he came, and he goes, Grandma, come, we're going
• 2:14:00
  to go into the kiva now and dream.
• 2:14:03
  It's time to go in and dream for our people.
• 2:14:06
  Dream for our community.
• 2:14:08
  Like a shaman.
• 2:14:08
  He's a dreamer.
• 2:14:10
  He's a
• 2:14:10
  Rupert Isaacson: shaman.
• 2:14:11
  He's a dreamer.
• 2:14:12
  Like an active dreamer to help people
• 2:14:13
  Jill Cohen: dream.
• 2:14:14
  Come on, Grandma, it's time for us to go and dream.
• 2:14:16
  Dream for our
• 2:14:18
  Rupert Isaacson: people.
• 2:14:20
  That sounds, that sounds achievable.
• 2:14:23
  Yeah, it does.
• 2:14:24
  That sounds doable.
• 2:14:25
  I mean, one can build a Kiva.
• 2:14:27
  you a dream I had.
• 2:14:31
  You know, Scub just showed up an hour ago, so.
• 2:14:35
  So, I had this, I had this dream when he was about three and
• 2:14:39
  at his most severely autistic.
• 2:14:42
  And the dream was, I arrive at this airport and this tall, young,
• 2:14:50
  handsome young man comes and picks me up and we get in his car.
• 2:14:55
  And And that, you know, he's always taller than me.
• 2:14:59
  I'm looking up at him, carrying my bags, you know, he's a real young gentleman.
• 2:15:03
  And we get in his car and then we're driving off to
• 2:15:05
  wherever, and it's, it's him.
• 2:15:08
  And I remember thinking, I don't know how the fuck I'm going to get to that.
• 2:15:12
  That's impossible.
• 2:15:14
  But it's, it's clear as day.
• 2:15:16
  It's in my mind.
• 2:15:17
  It's in my dream.
• 2:15:19
  But I do know that it's the direction in which I want to go.
• 2:15:22
  Well, in 2021, 15 years after having had that dream, a waking dream.
• 2:15:32
  I arrived at Austin Airport, I flew back to Texas.
• 2:15:36
  Scub came and picked me up, and he was, he was being totally autistic, right?
• 2:15:40
  He was, he was there, dimming away in the, in the arrivals area.
• 2:15:45
  But nonetheless, tall, taller than me, good looking young man,
• 2:15:50
  built, has shown up to get me.
• 2:15:54
  And we go walking out of the airport to his car, it's his car, he's driving.
• 2:16:03
  And, as I'm putting the bag, well actually he puts my bags in,
• 2:16:08
  because he's always a gentleman.
• 2:16:10
  And I get in the passenger seat and he starts to back out and
• 2:16:15
  I go, oh fuck, it happened.
• 2:16:18
  This is it.
• 2:16:20
  It, it happened.
• 2:16:22
  I dreamt it and it happened.
• 2:16:25
  And it happened.
• 2:16:26
  And then two nights later, we went to see a couple of friends and I said,
• 2:16:32
  you know, Scub, I'm going to drink a couple of beers when we go, so will
• 2:16:35
  you be all right driving me back?
• 2:16:36
  And I thought it was freaking out that we were even having
• 2:16:38
  this type of conversation.
• 2:16:40
  And, and I found myself in the passenger seat again at night, we're driving,
• 2:16:49
  we're leaving the pub where we've been.
• 2:16:51
  It's raining.
• 2:16:52
  So he's driving in the rain in five lanes of traffic, you know, on
• 2:16:55
  the changing lanes on the freeway.
• 2:16:58
  And I'm looking at him going, I used to, you used to be.
• 2:17:03
  Non verbal and incontinent, and here am I now, non verbal
• 2:17:07
  Jill Cohen: and incontinent.
• 2:17:07
  And tantruming in the back seat.
• 2:17:09
  Right.
• 2:17:09
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm the one now non verbal and incontinent in this ad.
• 2:17:13
  And we've totally shifted roles.
• 2:17:15
  You know, so your, your dream that you just articulated
• 2:17:19
  for sure is going to happen.
• 2:17:21
  Yeah.
• 2:17:21
  And maybe it takes a certain frustration to start launching that
• 2:17:26
  rocket of desire, but for him to be able to be a person that helps other
• 2:17:30
  people to, that's called coaching.
• 2:17:31
  That's life coaching.
• 2:17:32
  That's, you know, and you know, and there's autistic
• 2:17:35
  people out there doing it.
• 2:17:36
  You know, Dr.
• 2:17:37
  Peter, Steve Temple Grandin, Rowan, there's, there's lots of
• 2:17:42
  people out there who are pretty severely autistic who go on to have.
• 2:17:45
  Careers.
• 2:17:46
  And so let's make that dream happen.
• 2:17:48
  Yeah, let's, let's, he's in there.
• 2:17:50
  Let's build that.
• 2:17:50
  Let's do that.
• 2:17:51
  Let's build that.
• 2:17:51
  Kiva.
• 2:17:52
  I'd love to go dream with Sequoia.
• 2:17:55
  The best heal I ever knew in the Kalahari.
• 2:17:57
  The Bushman Besa was, the name was completely autistic.
• 2:18:02
  Never looked you in the eye.
• 2:18:03
  Flat, rocked, spoken completely with us.
• 2:18:06
  Wow.
• 2:18:07
  He people, you know, people travel from all thousands of
• 2:18:10
  miles for healings from him.
• 2:18:12
  Jill Cohen: Why not?
• 2:18:12
  It doesn't have to look a certain way.
• 2:18:16
  That's if we get stuck, those dendrites are stuck and it's like we
• 2:18:20
  think it has to look a certain way.
• 2:18:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 2:18:23
  So I'd be very happy to put my dendrites in.
• 2:18:26
  Oh, for purely selfish reasons, I would love to go to that Kiva, you know.
• 2:18:33
  Jill Cohen: And dream ourselves
• 2:18:34
  Rupert Isaacson: awake.
• 2:18:34
  And dream ourselves awake.
• 2:18:36
  Yeah.
• 2:18:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:18:37
  Jill Cohen: Dreams ourselves awake.
• 2:18:40
  Rupert Isaacson: So we, we dream ourselves, dream ourselves out of
• 2:18:43
  stuckness by dreaming ourselves.
• 2:18:44
  Jill Cohen: Yes.
• 2:18:45
  Alive.
• 2:18:46
  We dream ourselves alive.
• 2:18:48
  And Helen Keller, she says it takes a person who's wide awake
• 2:18:51
  to have their dreams come true.
• 2:18:53
  We need to be awake.
• 2:18:54
  We can't be stuck in those neural pathways and asleep at the wheel.
• 2:19:00
  We have to dream ourselves awake to have our dreams come true.
• 2:19:05
  Yeah.
• 2:19:06
  Okay.
• 2:19:07
  Our heart's desires, those desires, yeah, those rockets of desire.
• 2:19:12
  And when they're from the heart, they're,
• 2:19:15
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
• 2:19:17
  And for that, we need to move, connect, dream.
• 2:19:21
  Jill Cohen: Yeah.
• 2:19:22
  Stay grateful, stay grounded, stay in our hearts.
• 2:19:27
  Stay present.
• 2:19:28
  Rupert Isaacson: Get into nature.
• 2:19:30
  Notice stuff.
• 2:19:31
  Yeah, get into nature.
• 2:19:33
  Be connected.
• 2:19:34
  Jill Cohen: Hug a tree.
• 2:19:35
  Hug each other.
• 2:19:38
  Yeah.
• 2:19:38
  Yeah, we're hugging and dancing and singing and moving and
• 2:19:42
  celebrating in life until life is a celebration and not stop until then.
• 2:19:48
  Yeah.
• 2:19:51
  What else is there
• 2:19:52
  Rupert Isaacson: to do?
• 2:19:54
  It's true.
• 2:19:55
  I can't think of anything else really.
• 2:19:57
  Jill Cohen: I know.
• 2:20:00
  Go ride a horse.
• 2:20:01
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, yeah, but that's, that's the same
• 2:20:02
  thing, just in a different way.
• 2:20:03
  Just hugging it with your legs.
• 2:20:04
  Exactly.
• 2:20:05
  Instead of your, yeah, absolutely.
• 2:20:06
  Yeah.
• 2:20:07
  Yeah.
• 2:20:08
  Jill Cohen: And your butt.
• 2:20:09
  Beautiful.
• 2:20:10
  So my dream is to come and ride with you guys.
• 2:20:14
  Yeah.
• 2:20:15
  And go to Portugal, visit my friends in Portugal.
• 2:20:18
  Go, I mean, my dream before the cancer, it was, I was headed to
• 2:20:23
  Portugal to go see Sophia and
• 2:20:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Valencia.
• 2:20:28
  Yes.
• 2:20:29
  Those people who, dunno, the Valencia family in Portugal, the, the Valencia
• 2:20:32
  family in Portugal are the, are the apogee of classical dressage alive on the planet.
• 2:20:38
  When you enter that stable, it's like you've gone back to the 18th century.
• 2:20:43
  But yes, come, come here to Germany along the
• 2:20:45
  Jill Cohen: way.
• 2:20:45
  And those are the roots before we got stuck in Odessa and Ukraine
• 2:20:49
  in the beginning in the 1500s.
• 2:20:50
  That's true, that's true.
• 2:20:51
  I want to go home.
• 2:20:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's through the Iberian Peninsula.
• 2:20:55
  The, well, obviously, initially Judea, but That hasn't been home for since the Romans
• 2:21:02
  sacked it, you know, in 77 AD Romans.
• 2:21:06
  Yeah, well, hey,
• 2:21:09
  Jill Cohen: Home is where the heart is.
• 2:21:11
  Home is where we dream.
• 2:21:12
  Yeah.
• 2:21:14
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 2:21:14
  So consider that dream done.
• 2:21:16
  The, the, the invitation is wide open.
• 2:21:19
  When you have a chance, hop on a plane, come here.
• 2:21:21
  The horses are ready for you.
• 2:21:23
  The forest is waiting but until then we'll dream.
• 2:21:26
  Thank you.
• 2:21:29
  So, normally at the end of one of these podcasts, I give people websites
• 2:21:34
  and emails for people to contact.
• 2:21:37
  It doesn't sound like that's what we're going to do here, Jill, does it?
• 2:21:42
  Jill Cohen: No, if you find me, find me.
• 2:21:44
  It's you
• 2:21:44
  Rupert Isaacson: don't have
• 2:21:45
  Jill Cohen: a website, do you?
• 2:21:47
  I don't have a website.
• 2:21:48
  I don't really have the time to maintain it and life is flowing.
• 2:21:51
  The river, my river is flowing and I'm working to keep, you know, right,
• 2:21:56
  keep everything moving and flowing and
• 2:22:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, your business is entirely word of mouth.
• 2:22:03
  I know but listen listeners, if you've got a question for Jill, if you're in this
• 2:22:09
  situation, if you're Feeling stuck for really good reasons, like you actually
• 2:22:14
  are stuck physically, you're looking after somebody, you're, you, you, you can't move
• 2:22:17
  from the situation, and you're wondering what to do, and you want to send her a
• 2:22:20
  question, or benefit from her wisdom, send us an email here so, just write
• 2:22:29
  it to info, at info at horseboyworld.
• 2:22:37
  com.
• 2:22:37
  Info at horseboyworld.
• 2:22:38
  com.
• 2:22:38
  Just say question for Jill, and what we'll do is we'll relay those
• 2:22:42
  questions, we'll collate them, collect them, and then we'll get Jill back
• 2:22:46
  on and she'll answer them for you.
• 2:22:48
  How about that?
• 2:22:48
  Beautiful.
• 2:22:50
  All right, Jill.
• 2:22:51
  Mmm.
• 2:22:52
  Jill Cohen: It's been a treat.
• 2:22:52
  Thank you.
• 2:22:55
  It's been...
• 2:22:57
  Rupert Isaacson: Till next time.
• 2:22:58
  Oh, pleasure.
• 2:22:59
  I'm going to go off and have a bit of a drink.
• 2:23:00
  You know what I'm going to do right now?
• 2:23:02
  I'm going to go, because it's getting dark here, I'm going to take Rowan,
• 2:23:06
  we're going to go down into the creek.
• 2:23:09
  That's outside the house here, and we're going to go look at
• 2:23:11
  fireflies while we walk the dog.
• 2:23:13
  Jill Cohen: Beautiful!
• 2:23:13
  And it's a full moon out.
• 2:23:16
  Go dream, and we will connect.
• 2:23:18
  I'll go look at the moon, too.
• 2:23:20
  Very good.
• 2:23:21
  Be in dream time together.
• 2:23:23
  All
• 2:23:23
  Rupert Isaacson: right.
• 2:23:24
  All right.
• 2:23:24
  I'll be very sensitive.
• 2:23:25
  Love you.
• 2:23:25
  Okay.
• 2:23:26
  Love you, too.
• 2:23:27
  All right.
• 2:23:28
  Till next time.
• 2:23:30
  Jill Cohen: Bye.
• 2:23:31
  Bye.
• 2:23:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for joining us.
• 2:23:33
  We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
• 2:23:35
  Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online
• 2:23:40
  courses and live workshops in Horse Boy Method, movement Method, and Athena.
• 2:23:46
  These evidence-based programs have helped children, veterans, and people
• 2:23:51
  dealing with trauma around the world.
• 2:23:53
  We also offer a horse training program and self-care program
• 2:23:57
  for riders on long ride home.com.
• 2:24:01
  These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that
• 2:24:05
  bring you and your horse joy.
• 2:24:07
  For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.
• 2:24:12
  See you on the next show.
• 2:24:13
  And please remember to press, subscribe and share.