Latest / The Leading Yourself Podcast / What Seven Conversations Taught Me About Leadership | Professor Kene Igweonu
Transcript
- Kene Igweonu: Hello and welcome to the Leading Yourself podcast with me, Kene Igweonu. This is the finale for season one, and I'm really pleased to be bringing this to you. Thank you very much. If you stay with me throughout this season, I want to say a huge thank you for being with me throughout this season. This final series of this season is really about trying to bring everything together. This season has been about deeper questions. ⁓ it's about it's been about This is in re this This first season of the podcast has really been about asking some deeper questions. Questions about who you are when leadership becomes difficult. Every guest has answered this question very differently, but they've all kept returning to the same territory about values, about identity, purpose, relationships, integrity, balance, self-awareness, adaptability, and the discipline of remaining remaining and the discipline of remaining oneself under pressure. So, what I want to offer here is a reflection, my personal reflection on this season one of the Leading Yourself podcast. I've had seven conversations with seven amazing individuals. Very seven and I've had seven conversations with seven amazing humans. What this seven conversations have taught me is what this final episode of season one is all about. What has it taught me about leading yourself? So, welcome to a special episode of the Leading Yourself podcast. When I started this podcast, I wasn't entirely sure where it would go. I had spent years leading in universities, working with leaders across different sectors, and reflecting on my own leadership journey. But creating a podcast felt different. There is a vulnerability to putting something into the world and not knowing whether anyone was gonna listen. And of course, I had my own personal vulnerability around the insecurity of how is my voice gonna sound in a podcast? ⁓ could I articulate things the way people understand it? Can I will I am I gonna be able to ask my guests the right sort of questions to really get at the root of their leadership style and their leadership values? ⁓ all those things played in my mind. And I've I've actually, if I'm to confess, I've had this vision, this dream of starting this podcast for about two years now. And each time I kept putting it off because it was just one fear or the other, one limitation or the other. Kept holding me back from doing it. And at the end, I I I just had to come to a point when I think, you know what? It's not going to be perfect, right? It's never going to be perfect. And I think I'm going to get better with each episode. And I must say, ⁓ I've done seven episodes in this season one. And I am getting better. I will get better. So just in case you're out there thinking, ⁓ why is he saying things this particular way? Why is he not framing this? Why is he not ⁓ you know following up on this question? Why is it not as polished as some of the podcast ⁓ presenters that you listen to? I'm coming. I will get better. That is my commitment to you. ⁓ I will get better because I want to make sure we are putting out quality content to you, but I also want to make sure that it's a podcast that you enjoy listening to, but ⁓ really allows you to reflect on your leadership and to get better in your leadership. So I remember wondering whether I should even start this podcast in the first place and whether I was able to do it. Would anyone be interested in another conversation about leadership? Did I really have something useful to contribute? And perhaps more importantly, was I willing to learn publicly? Because this is as much about learning myself as it is about hoping that you learn from what my guests on this episode ⁓ dif di from what my guest on the different episodes of this podcast have to offer. And perhaps more importantly, was I willing to learn publicly with everyone, the whole world watching me learn. Because this podcast is as much about me learning, learning more about leadership, how to be a better human and a better leader, as it is about hoping that my audience, you listening right now, will learn from the wisdom of my guests. Looking back now after this. First seven episodes, I'm very grateful that I started. I am indeed grateful that I started. For all those who encouraged me to just go for it, I want to say a special thank you to you. Thanks for encouraging me to just put aside all my you know, limiting thoughts and just go for it. So thank you very much. I'm grateful that you were there as part of this journey to encourage me to get started. And I'm grateful that I did start it. Over seven conversations. I have spoken to leaders from higher education, leaders from healthcare, global healthcare, from business and from the creative industries. I've spoken to leaders from different countries, as well, different sectors, leaders who who who have had different leadership journeys. And yet, what surprises me most, and yet what surprises me, And yet, what surprised me most. was not how often. And yet, What surprised me most was how often they returned to the same fundamental questions. Not questions about strategy. Not questions about organizational structure. Not even questions about their titles. And they did have some hefty titles, but questions about character, leadership character, personal character. They all returned Time and again to questions about identity, leadership identity. They returned to questions about values, personal values, as well as leadership values. Questions about who we become when leadership becomes difficult, when it becomes challenging. This particular episode is not trying to offer a summary of the entire season one, just let's just to be clear. It is a reflection on what I have learned from listening to these amazing leaders from season one. My very first episode, the very first conversation was with a Professor David Mba, who is Vice Chancellor of Birmingham City University here in the UK. David spoke passionately about leadership as impact, the impact that leaders make. That was quite central to what David was trying to say in that episode. He talked about not just impact for the sake of impact, so not impact for his own sake. But impact grounded in values. And that's really important. And one idea stayed with me from that conversation. David talked about the importance of ensuring that our personal values align with the values of the organization that we serve. And I thought this was absolutely important, absolutely essential, because when personal and organizational values are aligned, difficult decisions become clearer. That was my one huge takeaway from the conversation with David, Professor David of Birmingham City University. When your personal values and your organizational values are aligned, then it becomes just maybe a little bit easier to make those difficult leadership decisions that you need to make because you know you're making it from a place of aligned value, of a personal and organizational value that is one. That's really, really important. ⁓ What struck me was ⁓ Professor David Mba's reminder that leadership is ultimately stewardship. The question is not simply what authority do I have? But one of what positive difference can I make while I'm here? While you're in your organization right now? What positive difference can you make? That is a profoundly worthwhile way of thinking about leadership, wouldn't you think? I certainly think so. My second conversation focused on the human side of leadership. This in this episode two, in that episode two, and in that episode two, my conversation was with ⁓ Anna Coatsworth, who from Canada, who lives in Canada. It took us into a territory that leaders do not always discuss openly. And you you you'll you'll see why. We talked about self-awareness, we talked about personal growth. We talked about therapy. I don't think leaders talk about therapy enough in the open. And that was one of the things that Anna brought to our conversation. We talked about identity, the vital work of understanding ourselves before we can try to understand other people. Anna spoke about how leadership development is often less about acquiring new techniques and more about understanding why we behave the way we do. So that's something to think about. It helps you to, yes, absolutely, acquire some new skills, but it's less about that. It's about understanding why you do the things you do, why you speak the way you speak, why you interact with your colleagues or those that you lead the way you do. I was particularly struck by Anna's hockey analogy. For years she had operated with the mindset of a goalkeeper in a hockey match, protecting, defending, containing the risks that is in the organization until she said she realized that the next stage of leadership required something different for her. And that is the same, that is true for many of us, certainly for me. It required stepping forward, not just playing defensive, but stepping out in the front, stepping forward, leading from the front, not simply protecting the organization, but helping to shape its future. That, in a nutshell, is leadership. That insight applies to many of us. Like I said, it certainly applies to me. Sometimes the habits that make us successful in one season of our leadership journey or growth becomes a limitation in the very next season of our leadership growth. So my third guest was Dr. Atul Shinagare, and we looked at the pursuit of balance, balance in leadership. Dr. Atul Shinagare introduced a theme that appeared quite repeatedly throughout the season. He talked about balance, he talked about "not balance" as a destination. So balance on the one hand, and not having balance as a destination. It talked about balance as a pursuit. It described leadership as a continual attempt to do right by patients. At all works in healthcare. And so it talked about leadership from that perspective as a continual attempt to do right by the patients, while also doing right by your staff, by his staff. It talks about holding competing responsibilities without neglecting either. So the patient on the one hand. And your staff, on the other hand, and not neglecting any of them. He spoke honestly about the personal cost of leadership, the temptation to carry on working and take work home with you, to allow leadership responsibilities to consume family life. And his realization that leadership is unsustainable unless we care about ourselves too. So self-care is really, really important in leadership. And that is something that has really come home to me recently, having lost my dad quite recently, and just coming to that place where I realize that I do have to take better care of myself because I'm a better leader when I'm well, when I'm in a good ⁓ mental state. as well. So that's a really useful reminder for me, and I hope for you as well. That's a really useful reminder for me, and I hope for you as well. And that is that leadership is unsustainable unless we care about ourselves too. Leadership requires sacrifice, absolutely, but it should not require self-destruction. That is the key. My next guest, Guest number four on episode four, was ⁓ Dr. Andre Dick from the United States. Andre talked about authenticity under pressure. He spoke about something I have thought about many times since the conversation I had with him. And that is the difference between proving and improving. Proving on the one hand and improving. So he gave this wonderful analogy earlier in our careers. Many of us spent our time proving ourselves, trying to prove that we can do the job and do it well. We spent time building our CVs, collecting achievements. Seeking validation from peers, from bosses, from you know the sector. But Andre described a shift from proving to improving. And I thought that was really something. He talked about this shift from asking, how do I demonstrate my what? to asking how do I become a better version of myself. He also challenged this notion of performative leadership, the gap between what leaders say and how people actually experience them in the workplace. And he said that that distinction matters, and I absolutely agree with him. because leadership is credibility. Because leadership credibility is not built through statements. It is built through consistency. People trust what they can repeatedly experience, not just what you say. Not just what they occasionally hear from us. So that's really important. We've got to leave our leadership. Guest on episode five was Ewan, Iwan. Guest on a guest on a My guest on episode five was Ewan Hamilton, who works with ⁓ Experian. He talked about leadership as a team sport. And that really, I know, important analogy, especially now that ⁓ the World Cup is going on. My conversation with Ewan Hamilton reminded me that leadership is rarely about individual pursuit. He described leadership as a team sport. The importance of surrounding yourself with people who will challenge you, not people who simply agree with you and everything you say. Not people who tell you what you want to hear, but people who help you to think better and to lead better. He also spoke about something many ⁓ new leaders eventually discover. As they grow in their leadership, you will get things wrong. Let me say that again. You will get things wrong. And quite often as well, I must add. Leadership maturity comes from accepting this reality rather than pretending otherwise that we're going to be perfect all the time. I think this is a liberating thought, don't you? That we do we will get things wrong. And that helps us to prepare better. So the goal is not perfection, the goal is learning. The goal is learning. If you're perfect already, there's nothing to learn. But if you accept that you as a leader, you're gonna get things wrong, then there is room for growth, there's room to learn. My next guest in episode six was ⁓ Wanda, Dr. ⁓ Wanda Rutledge-Gordon who and we spoke around this ⁓ theme of integrity when it matters most. Dr. Wanda Gordon brought extraordinary clarity to the conversation we had. Again and again, she returned to the concept, this idea of integrity. Not as an abstract principle, but a daily practice, a way of living, a way of making decisions, a way of conducting difficult conversations. She reminded us that self-awareness, responsibility, consistency, emotional intelligence, and vision all begin with leading oneself. And one of the phrases from my conversation with Dr. Wanda got on that stay with me is this phrase: Your presence speaks before your voice does. Think about that. Your presence speaks before your voice does. People observe us long before they listen to what we have to say. And they often learn more from what we do than from what we say. So really important to make sure that our ⁓ doing matches what we are saying. My guest number seven on episode seven was my very good friend, ⁓ Professor Rathna Ramanathan, who is a Provost and ⁓ Exec Dean at the University of the Arts London. This final conversation was really, really you know powerful. Rathna offered a perspective shaped by design practice, ⁓ which is her academic and research background. She described leadership as iterative. So you iterate, you learn, you grow. Not something that is fixed, but something that changes at and all the time. So it changes and it grows as you learn. It's not something that is also completed, something that grow, but rather it's something that gradually shaped, something that is gradually shaped and reshaped. But rather something that is gradually shaped and reshaped through reflection and through action. She also spoke powerfully about holding two time zones simultaneously. She talked about the present and the future. those two time zones, present and the future. She talked about caring for care caring. She talked about caring deeply for people as they are today, while also preparing institutions for realities that have not yet arrived. So that's that present and the future. She talked about this tension that we see in leadership, about how do you hold the moment in a way that still speaks to the future as you prepare for that future. That tension may be one of the defining challenges of senior leadership, the tension between the present and the future. And there are rarely easy answers. So, what have I learned, you may ask? When I look across the seven conversations, these seven different conversations, I see some common themes. I've already talked about some of those at the beginning of this ⁓ recording. I see that leadership begins with values and continues with values. Leadership requires self-awareness. If you want to be an impactful leader, you want to must have self-awareness. Leadership demands courage. Leadership is relational, it is learned. And perhaps more importantly, leadership is not primarily about position, it is about practice. My seven guests hold different roles in different organizations: Vice Chancellor, Provost and Executive Executive Dean, Provost and Executive Dean, Senior Vice President, Chief Financial Officer, Healthcare Leader, Business Leader, Academic and Research Leader. But none of them define leadership primarily through their title. They define it through leadership behavior, through personal character, through leadership choices, through personal and leadership habits through personal and organizational values. And that's a really important lens to look at it. So ⁓ as I engage in these conversations, I often found myself reflecting on my own journey. And that's really important too because I'm learning through this as well. The younger version of me thought leadership was about becoming something, because that was what I often saw modeled in the leaders that were ahead of me. The older version of me, the older, increasingly believes that leadership is about becoming more fully yourself. So becoming more fully myself, my authentic self. Not a lesser version, not a copied version, not a performed version as well. Just simply being yourself, being myself, the real me. The real you. That does something automatically when we think that way. It takes reflection. That does not happen automatically. It takes reflection, practice, feedback, failure, and sometimes it takes unlearning some of the things you thought you already figured out. And this brings me to season two of the podcast, which is going to be rolling out from next month. Season two ⁓ is themed unlearning, the courage to let go. That's what we're gonna be exploring throughout this season two. Whereas in this first season, we explored we we explored the idea of ⁓ leading yourself. In this next season, we're gonna be looking at on learning, the courage to let go. So if season one explored what it means to lead oneself in order to lead others better, then season two is gonna ask a very different question. It asks Season two is going to ask a very different question. If season one explored what it means to lead oneself in order to lead others well, then season two is going to ask a different question. What must I let go of? What beliefs no longer serve me, or indeed the organization I work for? What habits have become limitations? What assumptions need revisiting? What identities have become too small for who I am becoming? Because growth is not only about learning. Sometimes growth requires to unlearn some of the things that we thought we already know. And unlearning often requires courage. I hope you will join me for season two as we explore that journey together. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being with me throughout this first season of the podcast. I really appreciate that. I hope you've grown. I hope you've learned. I hope you're developing and transforming into the leader that you ought to be, because when the leader gets better, then the organization has a brilliant chance of getting better. Thank you very much and goodbye.