Latest / The MillionaireByMorning‘s Podcast / Why Culture is Your Only Competitive Advantage
Transcript
- Rashad Thirlkill: Hello and welcome back to the Millionaire by Morning Podcast Show. Hey, you don't know what you don't know, but I guarantee if you listen and learn, then you'll grow. I'm your host, Rashad Thurloke. For years we've been taught that success belongs to the toughest person in the room, the one willing to outwork everyone else. But what if that's no longer enough? What if the leaders who would dominate the next decade aren't simply the smartest or the most relentless? But the ones who know how to lead with emotional intelligence, authenticity, and purpose. Today's guest believes the future belongs to heart-led leaders. After decades in education, communications, executive leadership, and organizational development, he's helping leaders create cultures where trust grows, people flourish, and performance actually improves. He's the founder of W. Bruce Cameron Consulting, author of Fragments to Freedom. and a nationally recognized speaker on leadership in the age of artificial intelligence. Please help me welcome Bruce Cameron. Bruce: What a nice introduction, Rashad. Thanks. That's a great smile too. Rashad Thirlkill: Alright, man. Yeah, we got a lot to talk about here. We got a lot to talk about, a lot to discuss. I want to thank you for being here, man. you could have been anywhere in the world today, but you are here with me and my listeners, and we are very grateful for that. And let's jump right into it. So Bruce, every Bruce: Thank you for the invitation. My pleasure. Mm-hmm. Rashad Thirlkill: expert has a moment when everything changes. What happened in your own career that convinced you traditional leadership was no longer enough? Bruce: It w i it wasn't so much Rishad a seminal moment like a lightning bolt. As much as it was a career development. I started off in education with emotionally disturbed teenagers. I don't know whether that's the politically correct thing to to call them now, but it's these these kids that couldn't make it in the normal streamlined classroom. But what I found is when you engage them emotionally, that they were bright they were they were wanting to connect and it it opened some doors in my mind for me. It made me think of of that group of people differently. And so it started there and then as in advertising first in making connections with people I found that for instance in my time with McDonald's the I was on the advertising side of that business. And as owner operators, what you want to do, they want to make more money and get more transactions. And so that became like the era of 99 cent Big Mac or you know, some some other promotion. And what I realized over time was I could drive them in to the restaurant. I could drive you as a as a customer in to get the ninety-nine cent Big Mac, but you wouldn't come back. And that owner operator actually lost money on the ninety nine cents. So What I realized was over time and then became an advertising executive with Taco Bell, as well as other d different clients, all of it was about how do I get more people through the door and spending more money. And for me it became, you know, if we can engage those people emotionally. then they're gonna have a better customer experience, they're gonna enjoy their time there better, they're gonna stay longer, spend more money, and return more often. And that's in fact what happened. And so it's it's part of the back of the house business as well as the front of the house business. So it was kind of an evolution over time. Rashad Thirlkill: Evolution. Okay. So with that being said, I'm pretty sure people are now interested in what you did as far as advertising for these big huge companies, Taco Bell and McDonalds. What what I guess what's your background story on that? Bruce: the background is is a degree in psychology many moons ago and became a regional advertising director in a number of different states for both of those, Taco Bell and McDonald's and KFC, Pizza Hut. And it and then went out on my own, with a a consulting firm called frontline marketing and where I put the what I just described to you into practice with current clients as well as additional clients. That idea of if I can engage the back of the house, the the frontline workers, and to have a better experience with other and with their the customers that were coming through the door, then could I actually make them more productive, could I bring more money through the door into the bottom line? And in fact that's what we were able to do. So So had frontline marketing for about 15 years, got wooed back into a W-2 from a big client here in in Denver where I was director of communications for six and a half years, seven years I guess. and they allowed me to build culture within their corporation, two hundred plus Taco Bell restaurants, Pizza Huts, KFCs in five states. And so that I was able to do what I love to do, which is helping make people be helping them to become the best version of themselves and to do that what we want to do is we wanna connect. We want that human connection. And this company allowed me to do that. and now I've gone back out on my own with W Bruce Cameron Consulting, doing the same thing with a lot of different businesses and organizations and doing keynote speeches and and that sort of thing. Rashad Thirlkill: So man, that's a huge jump. From just the Mindset of leadership back then to the mindset of leadership now. And what I mean by jump is you have people that were Glenn Gary, kick ass, take no names in the advertising space, in management, period. And now you have white glove service. You you kinda have to the younger generation, you know you have to be real, real I don't want to say soft, but you have to be understanding, really understanding. So are you seeing that with Bruce Cameron consulting now? Bruce: Here's what you see, Rashad, and I'm gonna call you on the carpet with using soft skills. Not because it's only you, because it's that's people call them soft skills, being kind, being empathetic, being compassionate, being polite. Those are considered soft skills. What I've come to recognize that they are is power they're power skills. Because regardless, those businesses and those leaders, those grit Those grit leaders that you're talking that you're referencing, Rashad, they're still there. They're my way or the highway. This is the goal. I need you to bring up your sales by 5%. No, go do it. And you are sent on Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: your merry way and you're expected to return with that. But what's happening is grit is becoming. obsolete. And what's taking its place is what I call heart led leaders. And they are not j The the the mistake that's sometimes people make is thinking heart-led leaders are soft. They're nice people using soft skills. And that's not actually what they are at all. They are human development strategists. And Rashad, by that I mean they are individuals that understand that if you're congruent in your head and your heart. then if you can make a connection with me relationship-wise first, if you if I can gain your trust, then I can download the actual rational things that I need you to do, get sales up by five percent. Because you're gonna be more open to me leading you to say, okay, here's how we're going to get up our sales up five percent. And you're you will allow me to coach you. If you you look like you are or have been in the past an athlete, think of your coaches. Now maybe maybe some of were that, you know But y I'll bet that you had a really great coach that not only demanded a lot from you, but helped you understand how you could Get there. And he did that by connecting with your heart and who you were as an individual. And that's what heart-led leaders do. They connect with you as an individual and then use power skills like empathy, like like compassion to help guide you to to become the very best that you can be. Does that make sense? Rashad Thirlkill: Yes, totally. Totally. I I thought about Tony Dungey, who was the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. And when you were saying that I'm thinking of Tony Dungey. Yeah. Bruce: It's a great example, yeah. Yeah. Kevin McConnell, Minnesota Vikings. I got to meet him last year, actually at a seminar I was at. And he's he's the I don't know whether you've ever met him, but he's the nicest guy. And he said, you know, I was a terrible quarterback. But I and he and he backed anyway, he says I was a terrible quarterback. But I'm a really good coach because my my players trust me. They know I'm not gonna that we're in this whole thing together, whether we win or whether we lose. You know, and they know that I'm gonna be the last one off the field. And they are not gonna get embarrassed without me being there to support them. And he said that that's why I'm a really good coach is because of the connection that I have with my players. So even Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: w though I wasn't a really good at athlete, although we made it to the NFL, so, you know, who are we to talk? Right. But anyway, Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Right. Bruce: th those are great examples, yeah. Yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah, definitely. Are we at a are we at a confusing time in society? And what I mean by that is Corporate America Awards hustle. We have a hustle a hustle culture that you see all the time. Social media. Social media celebrates burnout. there's coaches for burnout now, but it's just not it's not considered just the worst thing. Business books Celebrate grinding. You Bruce: Mm-hmm. Rashad Thirlkill: have these coaches out here that's like, you know, take a cold shower, get up four a.m. in the morning, take a five mile run, and then come back at eight o'clock, make phone calls till five o'clock in the afternoon, and then do it all over again in the morning. So that's pretty much the strategy. that hustle culture has made and if you turn on any social media sites, that's what you see. W where are we in society based on the work culture as a part of art as opposed to the whole culture? Bruce: Wa well, I was that guy for for, you know, thirty years. I was that guy. and I was successful. regardless of whether you count that as as income or prom promotions and titles or companies that I worked for, you know, I I would have been considered successful. And I was that two AM guy. Here's where we are, Rashad. Those companies make money. Absolutely. and I sp I've spent much of my career since Becoming a heart-led leader in trying to push companies that rock uphill. They get it intellectually. Any CEO you talk to is gonna say, Of course I want my my employees to be happy, of course I want them to stay, of course I want them to have a good time at their job. But they're they're disconnecting that's head mentality, that's grit mentality, that's what you're describing. What they're missing is that we're human beings and organizations, whether you c whether it's a team or whether it's a a business or whether it's a family. We're living breathing organisms. Your business is made up of people. And without people, it doesn't work. And so if you just here's where grid actually came from. This I don't know whether you know this, but it might be interesting for you and your listeners. It actually comes from a Western European white background where When factories were created, they put us into the factory and we were widgets. We were putting the screws, you know, the bolts on the screws. And when you gave out, then you were retired. And a new widget was brought in because we gotta put so many nuts on bolts a day. And when you came to the new world, there was nothing here. There was no roads, not no buildings. And so you needed a grit mentality of work till they die, until they're no longer any good, and then they give out and then you retire them. But we've evolved beyond that. We know that we need people. We know that we need to be able to connect. We want to be loved. And y what you're starting to see, what I see now, is you're actually starting to see the word love used within business. I don't know whether you're old enough well, y you'll know this. Leave your personal life at the door when you come to work. Well, it just doesn't happen. Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: Any business you've been in, you know around the water cooler, I'm talking about the breakup, I'm talking about the problem with my kids, I'm talking about, you know, what I did with my partner. It it it it just doesn't work. We bring our whole selves to work. And so it's just recognizing that that's actually what businesses are. And the leader that can recognize that and actually have that kind of courage. To take the time to engage with that team member, whoever it is, and as a real person, that person will go through will run through brick walls for you. And again, to use that sports analogy, that's what great teams do. They buy into the coach. And it's not because the coach drove you into the ground, maybe they did, but they had a humanity about them as well. They celebrated your victories, they celebrated your improvements, and that you got something from them. So it's not that leaders that drive me forward and say just go get it done aren't successful. Of course they are. But you're gonna find less and less of them because we're gonna refuse to do it. And that's what you're seeing with with new generations. It's not that they don't want to work, but they expect to be cared for. They expect to learn and grow within the within the business. They expect a fair wage. And they expect that they're gonna have a leader that they can trust that's actually going to care about them as a human being. and that's why I say the next evolution of leadership is the emotional intelligence with the rational intelligence. That's who's gonna win in this game. Rashad Thirlkill: I believe it. I believe it. Bruce, I'll tell you a story, man. I I was employed, you know, either trying to work for myself or a W-2 employee. And I was working in warehouses as as I was getting my college education. And Bruce: Mm-hmm. Rashad Thirlkill: so I was far removed from I was far removed from the time that the internet kind of the younger millennials start going into the workspace. So I was still in the the grit era. I was everywhere that I went, whether it was a workshop or if I did have a let's say a call center job or a job where I was just working basically in a cubicle, I had to wear some type of casual suit. or some type of casual, you know, get up. And what happened is Bruce: Yeah, yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: I ended up getting a job through a marketing company. Now, this was after Google, after I knew about Silicon Valley, after I heard about how Google offices operate. I've heard about it, I've never seen it. So I put on my suit and tie and I walked in this new job and it's kids skateboarding and eating outside. And you can bring your dog to work. And I was just, man, I was so outside of myself. And it's it's kind of funny because I didn't I didn't have any clothes other than that to wear to work. So like the first two weeks, I was just like this old man in suits and ties. And it was so funny, man. But I totally get what you're saying. There has been a change. And and I think with the older generation, we don't know that there has been a change. We don't really understand that change. But it is definitely it's not the grit anymore. I met the CEO. The CEO was actually getting coffee at the same time I was getting coffee. Bruce: Yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: It wasn't until like a week later that he had a meeting and introduced himself as the CEO because he didn't have on a suit and tie. He had on just plain clothing. And so yeah, it's it's All my other jobs you'll never see the CEO. He was never amongst the common people. So I see the difference, man, and yeah, I get what you're saying. Bruce: It I'll I'll see your story and give you another one back. The just recently, you know, we had Artemis that, you know, the four astronauts that went around the moon, right? And I happened to listen to four separate interviews from them, one from each of the four astronauts. And they were separate interviews. But here's what they did. Each one, Rashad, said One of the reasons that their mission was so successful was because of love. Now, Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: here's the best of the best, right? The right stuff. These are the people that we hold up that astronauts are, you know, they're they're cut above. They could have used anything. They could have said the technology is the best, the training is the best, you know, the weather was perfect. They could have picked all anything. And what they d each one picked in a separate interview is is love. And they used it differently. They said it was the love of each other while we were together as a team. It was the love of the support team that that helped us. It was the love of our families that supported us during this difficult training and operation. But each one of them used the term the feeling of love. And that's why I say that the world is changing. We're evolving. It's no longer a taboo for everybody. If our astronauts can start talking about love as being important to success, then our CEOs can certainly start talking about it. To me it was a it was a it was an important moment. Rashad Thirlkill: You know, it's funny that you mentioned that word love because I say all the time, what was it, the sixties? When was it that the hippies and the love was all about and everyone was free? I think Bruce: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: that's what we're seeing nowadays. It's like everyone is you can be who you wanna be, you can be free. Bruce: Yeah, we're trying. We're trying to get back there, aren't we? And and I think you Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah, definitely. Bruce: to your point about older people like myself, I work with a lot of them that are working with a younger generation. And they're working with them in first jobs, you know, like in restaurants, for instance. And they and a lot of them will say, Boy, this generation is just doesn't have any work ethic. Now, I've I disagree with that. Wholeheartedly. I've raised two kids. Now they're in their thirties. And I watched but I watch them. And I'm the one that raised them. And I'm the one that taught them. If you don't have a leader that's gonna support you, that's gonna train you, that's gonna coach you, that's gonna give you expectations, that's gonna care about you, if you're having a bad day, if they're not coming up to you and Saying, do you need a couple of minutes? Or would you like to talk? Or if they can see that you're having a bad time, if they're not coming up to you, if they're not giving you opportunities to learn and grow and promote yourself and learn new skills, then don't stay there. And that's Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: And I don't think I'm un unusual. I think it is my generation, maybe our generation, that said to our kids, you don't have to stay at a place that you don't like, that's treating you badly. Move on to find somebody Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Right. Bruce: who will support you, who will care about you, who will promote you to to all that you can be, to the best version of yourself. Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. And to and and to add to that, that's a definite and to add to it, they don't care so much about money like the older generation did. They want to know if you're giving back to society. They wanna know what humanitarian efforts is this company a part of. Bruce: Exactly. Yeah. And again, we taught him that. We said, you know, yeah, you gotta give some you gotta give back. You know, it's it's not all about the dollar. Yes, of course you gotta pay your bills. Yeah, of course. It it plays a part in it. But yeah, they're looking for they understand that this life is a gift. Rashad Thirlkill: Fulfillment. Yeah. Bruce: And okay, what how do I get everything that I can out of this gift? Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: And part of that is relationships, you know? Rashad Thirlkill: And part of it part of it as well is seeing what your parents did, seeing were they able to be there for you? Were they, you know, the the hustle and the bustle was was it hustle culture for them? They were trying to get a promotion. We we were lashkey child children. We had to open our own doors, Bruce: Mm-hmm. Rashad Thirlkill: be there by ourselves, cook for ourselves. So a lot of these younger children, they don't want that for themselves. They They're traveling. Bruce: Yeah. It that is such a great point. I actually hadn't thought of it the way you just you put it, Rashad, but I think they are absolutely are looking at their parents at broken homes and d you know, they never saw dad or w mom or whatever 'cause they were working two jobs or they were working all night or whatever it was, right? And they Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: said they don't look happy. Rashad Thirlkill: Exactly. Exactly. Bruce: And maybe they got the new car and that's Good. That's cool, but they're not you know, I would Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: have much preferred to have two parents or whatever. I think you're right. I think Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: they're absolutely that pendulum is swinging saying there's gotta be a better way to do this. And I think leadership in companies can't just go through a churn and burn. You can't put me up there and say do it or you're fired. You can, you can. But I switching to AI a little bit. it what I'm learning, you know, there's a lot of fear that AI is going to replace jobs, and it is, it is. But there there was a lot of I'm seeing actually, interestingly enough, out of the IT world that IT professionals are now saying that the biggest skill that they need that they don't have is how to get along with people. Because you mentioned Silicon Valley and stuff and when they when that came along, you know, you had people showing up in hoodies and, you know, didn't dress for business meetings and came in late and because they were all that in a bag of chips and didn't have to actually get along with people. Now in this mature market of IT and dealing with AI and and th they need to actually understand what their clients need. They can't they they need to go backwards and develop their human relation, their emotional intelligence to actually Rashad Thirlkill: Wow. Bruce: get along with people. And it's not me saying it, it's them saying it. That's what we need to know. We don't know how to shake hands. We don't know how to, you know, look people in the eye. We don't know Rashad Thirlkill: Wow. Bruce: those those skills that you're calling soft skills are that they're saying, No, you're right. These are the power skills. Because if I can't talk to you. You're not gonna hire me. G it's very awkward, Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Very awkward. May it'll be very awkward. Bruce: right? 'Cause we're not gonna be able to communicate about what you want and what I can supply. It it's matured to that level that now it it there's a human connection that has to happen. You know. Rashad Thirlkill: Wow. I I've never thought of it that way, but you're right. They were busy building code with their head down. Bruce: Exactly. Exactly. And everybody was buying it. As soon as you brought it it was like, okay, yeah. We don't know what we're buying, but but now we know. But now we know what we're buying and there's more opportunities and we're smarter about IT now, about asking for what we need. And so now you as the purveyor, the vendor, need to be able to talk to me about what you can Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: offer me and understand what my problem is so that you can actually bring me the correct solution if Rashad Thirlkill: Wow. Bruce: you got it. Rashad Thirlkill: Bruce, let me ask you this. how important is culture in an organization? Bruce: It's everything. Rashad, it's everything. It's everything. The and I believe it starts with a vision. And most companies that I go to, and you can think about your own company, I won't put you on the spot, don't have a vision. They may have a mission statement that's up on a wall somewhere. That's up, you know, a paragraph of sorry, gobbledygook. It's a mission is really short. It's aspirational. So it's not, we're gonna raise sales five percent every year. It's not that. It's aspirational meaning it's the North Star. To your point about people want to know that they're part of something larger than themselves. Now it doesn't have to be we're gonna feed the homeless. It it can be about your business, but it's How are we going what difference do we make? Why is this business here? Why why does it exist? Why does it bring value? And that's what the the vision is. And it needs to be simple so that everybody can understand it. You know, from the CEO to the frontline worker. They need to be able to understand it. And then you need about no more than three core values. And those core values then support that vision. And so whether you're a family or whether you're a multi million dollar organization with lots of different departments, human resources and you know, operations and sales and marketing and they everything that they do decision that they make should go through those core values. And everybody that you hire, everybody that you onboard should have an understanding of what those core values are because they become the filter that funnels you through the vision. So before you make a decision, right, you look at the core value and say, okay, does that support our vision of wanting to get to this level? Does it does that make And if it doesn't, Rashad Thirlkill: It does. Bruce: it might be a great idea, but if it doesn't support it, then it goes over here. Because you only want to there's no there's only so much time in the day and and in our lives. And so we want to make sure that the decisions we're making are aligned with our vision and our core values should be the filter that makes sense to to that. Rashad Thirlkill: That's good, man. A as a as a as a marketer, I'm looking at it as a sales funnel. And what it is Bruce: You get Rashad Thirlkill: is your message needs to go through your sales funnel. Bruce: There you go, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Cause we because as a marketer, you can have a ton of great ideas, right? But it becomes squirrel. And if you've Rashad Thirlkill: Yep. That's right. Bruce: got your v and to to your initial question, how important is culture? Yeah, because if I don't believe in your culture, doesn't make me a bad person, but it makes me the wrong person. Because I'm gonna I'm gonna cause friction. Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: I'm gonna cause because I'm gonna be trying to go over here and you're gonna be saying, Our culture is this. You know, we're gonna and you know, in Chick fil A they say, My my pleasure. versus thank you. That's part of their culture. They're closed on Sundays. That's part of their culture. So if you come in and say, Hey, you know what, we should be open on Sundays or let's have a meeting, a business meeting on Sunday 'cause we're not at work. Well you're Your intentions may be great, Rishad, but the culture at Chick-fil-A says, No. We're gonna be closed on Sunday and that's the time that we're staying at home with our families. And we're Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: not having business meetings. So you may be that might be a great idea, but you're causing friction. And if you make your employees come in and have a meeting with you on Sunday, you're again you're y y you know what I mean? It doesn't mean you're a bad person. Rashad Thirlkill: You're against the culture. Bruce: It just means you you're not fitting the culture. And and if you change from my pleasure, they decided on my pleasure because i be whatever reasons they decided on, it doesn't matter for this conversation. But if you just but if you go into Chick-fil-A and you're managing Chick-fil-A and you say, No, I want you to say thank you, there's a there's a friction that's happening there. Doesn't Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: mean that thank you isn't a good thing to say, but you're against the culture. Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah, definitely. So Bruce: So you always want to be hiring people that are within your culture because you're just flowing downstream so much faster. Right? Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Bruce: Everybody gets it. Rashad Thirlkill: Is this this very intriguing? the example that you just gave. Is this something that's a part of your book, Fragments to Freedom? Bruce: I i no, it's not. It's Fragments to Freedom is about choice. So maybe in a w in a i this guy wakes up in a field, Rashad, and he has he's at the foot of a mountain, he ha and he wakes up with no memory. So he doesn't know where he came from, he doesn't know who he's been, he has no memory of his life and he has no memory of who he is. So he doesn't know his name. And he can stay there, and maybe somebody will come and save him. Or he can take a step. And the whole book turns on that choice. And so it's about it's about understanding that we have choices. and that God gave us that. God gave us the the ability to make a choice. And he doesn't I don't believe he he judges us on it that but how we respond to the circumstances that come to us is our choice. And so it's a book about that. You can be the victim, and and just live in the idea that this choice th that this circumstance happened to me and bad things happen to all of us. You know, that's just that is life. Nobody gets through it just smooth sailing. And i it's so what do you do with that circumstance? And that becomes your choice. How do you react to that circumstance? How do you react to the idea that you don't know what your life was, you don't know who you were, you don't know who your loved ones are or were or why you're in the situation that you're in. And so it's a book about choice. And it doesn't it doesn't Rashad Thirlkill: Got it. All right. Bruce: make a decision for you. it doesn't say, you know, should you start as a blank slate and move on from there or should you try and learn who you were before. It it gives you reflection questions at the end where you might be able to think through that and make a decision for yourself. But it doesn't say one is right and one is wrong. because what he finds on it on his mountain is, you know what? Maybe I can just start right here. You know? He encounters generosity, he encounters kindness, courage, persistence, and maybe he decides to just start there. Or maybe he goes back and finds out who he was and who his family was and what his business was and he continues from there. So it's that. It that's what the Rashad Thirlkill: Well. Bruce: book's about. Rashad Thirlkill: Choose your own adventure. Bruce: Your own adventure. Rashad Thirlkill: Awesome. So Bruce, how do you yourself personally internalize everything and stay grounded? When when you could have you you could have just kept it at grit, but you move forward to heart led leadership. What do you do to stay grounded in ten internally when the pressure increases? Do you Do you read? What is you know, what is your getaway? How do you do it? Bruce: What I what I learned to do and I work on it every day, Rashad, so what I'm about to say is is always a work in progress, but it was learning to surrender and learning that and maybe that's the theme of this interview or this conversation, heart-led leadership is a paradox. You think that they're soft people. using soft skills. But heart led leaders are actually very strategic people using power skills. It's a paradox. you think they're gonna be weak, but they're actually the strongest leaders in the room because they take the time to look at you as a person. Surrender is often thought of as weakness, as failing, as quitting. And what I learned through my life was that surrender is actually power. There's power in surrender because it's not quitting, it's not giving up. It's just deciding that some things are too heavy to carry any further and having the courage to put them down. Because when you put down things, stresses in your life, whatever you're doing, right? When they get to be too heavy, having the courage to put down rather than grit and just keep going and keep going and keep going until you're burnt out. the the the power is in letting it go and setting it down because what it opens up is this whole creative solution. Because think about grit. It says put one foot in front of the other, climb up the mountain until you get there. That's what grit is. So it puts these blinders on you. With surrender, what it says is, Okay, I'm putting this down because I don't know what to do any longer. I can't go any further. I'm done. and The grid and resilience isn't working any longer. And so when you put it down, all of a sudden you get it's not that you gave up the goal, it's that now you can see different ways to get there. You can see different paths up the mountain, you can see different trails, you can see different solutions that you hadn't been able to to to to look at before. Because because you had your mind you had your your focus just on putting one foot in front of the other. So I I'd surrender. That's what I do. I I continually surrender each and every day and and that is probably my strongest power at the moment. Put it down. And look for the other solution. Rashad Thirlkill: Wow. That's pretty powerful. Okay, Bruce, we're going to move on Bruce: Does that make sense to you? Rashad Thirlkill: to a section I call the rapid fire section. Yeah, I get it. I've heard something like that before. Bruce: No good. Rashad Thirlkill: but I totally get it. I get the concept of it. Bruce: Hard. 'Cause we always want to pull it back, right? You know. Rashad Thirlkill: Bit. Yeah. Bruce: And whether it's God or universe or whatever you do, whatever you believe in is a higher power, we say, Okay, you take this, because I can't do it, and then we pull it back and say, Yeah, but do it this way Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah. Right. Give yeah. well well the what I'm taught is to give it to God and kind of just you know, let him deal with it. Let him deal with it. What's that? Bruce: But it's hard to leave it there, or it has been for me. It's it's been hard to leave it there for me. That's it, that's where the practice comes in. Here, God, I'm Rashad Thirlkill: Right. Bruce: leaving it with you. But God, if you would do it this way, I'd kind of appreciate it. Anyway, tell me rapid fire. What are we doing there? Rashad Thirlkill: Yeah, yeah. This how I was looking at it. Okay, so Rapid Fire, the this is the Rapid Fire segment. Answer with one word or one sentence. Okay, complete this sentence. Success without blank isn't success. Bruce: Kindness. Rashad Thirlkill: One leadership habit everyone should stop doing immediately. Bruce: Ooh, one leadership mm. thinking you have all the answers. Rashad Thirlkill: One habit everyone should start tomorrow morning. Bruce: Saying hello. Rashad Thirlkill: Best investment you've ever made. Bruce: Having kids. Rashad Thirlkill: Favorite leadership book besides your own? Bruce: boy. I've read a lot of them. Best Leadership Book. The Carpenter by John Gordon is a good one. It's a parable, it's an easy read. Rashad Thirlkill: What's one question nobody asks you but you wish they would? Bruce: are you happy? Rashad Thirlkill: That's a good one. That's a good one. All right. So that's it, man. All right. That's it. End of the rapid fire session. So in closing, Bruce, for those wanting to learn more about heart-led leadership, where can they connect with you? Bruce: well thank you for asking. the website is W. Bruce Cameron Consulting. W. Bruce Cameron Consulting. The you can find me on LinkedIn. And my phone number is three one two nine five two nine nine five two. Rashad Thirlkill: There you go. All right, man. So, to anyone that's out there listening, this has been an amazing conversation. when you can speak with someone who has a background of success and they come on the Millionaire by Morning podcast and is able to have a conversation while giving you tips and tricks and kind of showing you what you should be doing to be successful as well. We really appreciate these type of people, these guests for coming on and you particularly Bruce, I would like to thank you for being here today. Bruce: Thank you, Rashad. You were you were a wonderful host and you made it very easy and I appreciate it. Thank you. I'll bet you're a hard led leader, man. Rashad Thirlkill: Thanks, man. Thanks. yeah. definitely. I I yeah, we'll talk about that offline, but yeah, most definitely. Bruce: Yeah. Rashad Thirlkill: So to everyone out here, out there that's listening to this podcast, remember the motto, keep making moves, make money and make meaningful memories. Until next time, we'll see you later.