Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Keith Carlock

Transcript

Keith Carlock · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer Keith Carlog. Keith, how'd you
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: get the gig with Steely Dan?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I was living in New York and playing with a
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: guitar player by the name of Wayne Krantz, who an
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: incredible guitar player. We had a trio that we were
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: playing at the fifty five Bar in New York, this
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: little die bar every Thursday, and it was myself Tim
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: LeFave and on bass and Wayne Krantz on guitar. Wayne
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: had played with Steely Dan in ninety six on their
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: tour I think it was the Art Crimes tour, and
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: so they were already aware of his music, fans of
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: his music, and they came out to hear us on occasion.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Donald and Walter both came at various times to hear
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the band, and at one point I remember Wayne telling
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: me you won't believe this man, but Donald wants to
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: play with us. He wants to sit in and play
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Rose with us one night, and I was like, I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: was freaking out. It was like, this is so cool.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: And I think they got together and learned some of
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: the music together, some of the heads and things that
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: would would help to prepare or whatever. And so that's
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: it happened one night on a Thursday night, and it
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: was probably late nineties. I was I'd been to New
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: York maybe maybe a year and a half at that point.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I had moved from Texas where I went to Cool
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: and he played the entire night and I remember him
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: sitting right in front of me. It was a small
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: little club. I don't know if you know of it,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: but it's a tiny little dive bar, but it's it's
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: got a lot of history and you know, kind of
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: a New York legendary place, you know, just where you
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: can just play music, play whatever you want, people come
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and listen, and really great vibe there anyway, And I
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: think that night will Lee was on bass because Tim
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: was out of town, couldn't make the gig, so Willie
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: was playing bass, myself, Wayne and Donald on Rhodes. And
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: it was one of those pinch yourself moments for me,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: where you know, I'm playing with three of my heroes, really,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you know, and you know, like I said, I'd only
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: been in New York for a little while, and so
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: it was incredible, had a great time and and that
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: was it. And then later, you know, like I said,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Walter was also coming down to hear us from time
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: to time, and you know, never thought it would turn
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: into anything. I didn't know, but they invited us to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: play or to come to their studio and record this band,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the Wayne Crench Trio. And it was a studio they
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: had at the time on the Upper East Side in
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: nineties somewhere and called River Sound. And we went in
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and Donald and Walter were both there. They were kind
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: of more or less producing it. From what it seemed like,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: we recorded all day long and we're getting some sounds
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: and I can remember working with Walter and some of
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: the drum sounds in the room and doing some tunings
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: things and changing some things and experimenting a little bit,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and and that was amazing, you know, just hanging with
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: them and getting to know them a little bit and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: seeing how they work in the studio and just it
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: was it was incredible. And it was maybe I don't
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: know how much longer it had been a while they
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: were going in the studio to record a song for
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Joni Mitchell tribute record, and they were recording the song
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Carrie from Blue and they asked me to come in.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I got called from the contractor, and of course I
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: was geeking out, like, oh my god, it's crazy because
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: just to be asked, you know, is one thing, but
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: then if they actually use what you do, you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: it's like a big feather in the cap for a musician,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you know, to be a part of a steely dan whatever,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: you know. So we I remember we got the the
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: track that day, got the rhythm track. They were just
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: wanting to get the drums, nice and consistent, solid track
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: and then they could just build from there. But I
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: think we got a nice rhythm track with everyone playing.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I remember Donald playing roads, Walter was playing bass, wish
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I could remember, and I think John Harrington was there
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: on guitar. Could have been Humocracken as well. Anyway, my
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: memory it's not perfect there, but it was. It was
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: an amazing session. I just I felt pretty good about it,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: and they weren't. They were into it. They finished the
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: song out. I don't think that that it ended up
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: being used. I remember that song because I guess they
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: changed the ginger and the lyrics or something to fit
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the mail that I found out she didn't like it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I asked all about that at one time. I guess
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: she wasn't. She didn't like it, so they didn't use
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: it for the record. That song actually reappeared on the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: internet after twenty years. It was I don't think it
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: was ever heard, and I found it and some people
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: posted it and I asked Donald about it, and he
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: told me that story that I don't think she liked that.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: We changed the lyrics, you know, a little bit to
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: fit you know, a mail instead of an email point
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of view or something like that. And then that was
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: my first experience recording with them for real, and you know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: if that was it, I was happy with that, you know,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: that was that was incredible. Then, you know, I guess
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: it was another I don't know, another year or so
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: or less. They were going to do a new record,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and they I think they really liked the process of
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: just coming in and getting the rhythm track and then
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: finishing it out, you know, finishing out the song right
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: away using the same rhythm section we would do. We
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: would come in and they asked me to record a
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: little bit more for this record. We'd come in and
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: do like two or three tracks at a time, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: they would you know, just basically trying to get a
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: nice rhythm track they could build from for this record
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: that would end up being everything must go that. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: can't remember what year it came out, maybe two thousand
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and two or three. So it was one of those
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: things where I didn't know if I would get called back,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: didn't know, you know, what to expect. But they kept
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: calling the same guys back, and it was turning into
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: a whole thing, a whole process where we would do
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: two or three songs at a time, go away, they'd
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: finish them out and then start again with another batch
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: of songs like that, and so that was that was great.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: It was really just incredible, you know, just to be
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: a part of that in the studio. You know, they're
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: kind of known for bringing in rhythm section after rhythm
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: section and changing things up. This was, you know, the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: first time in their history where they just kind of
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: stuck with one group of guys, you know, for the
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: core of the tracks. So that was pretty exciting to
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: be to be there as a part of that. And
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: then that we finished it out and you know, after
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: a course of many months, I remember nine to eleven
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: happening somewhere in the middle of that, and there was
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: a pause for a while, But I got a call
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: from Walter Becker before that they were going to go
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: out on the road in two thousand and three, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he asked me if I wanted to to go tour
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: with them, and of course, you know, I was yes,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how you know, that's kind
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: of how all it came about. It was just like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: one step at a time and it just kind of
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: snowballed into this thing where we it just became you know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: kind of I guess comfortable working together, and we had
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of time to kind of get to know
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: one another and work together and feel things out. And
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: so they you know, asked me that was a two
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: thousand and three tour, and I've I've been on every
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: tour ever since since two thousand and three.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the making of the album. You know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much a mystery of what really went on
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: in the studio. You know, Walter ultimately produced Donald fagan
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: solo album. Who was in control and what was the process?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Like I would say they were both equally in control.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: They would usually send me some kind of a demo
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: ahead of time, and if not, they'd play it in
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: the control room. Before we would go out and try
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: to track something. But it's most of the time I'd
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: get something ahead of time just to listen to. It
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: might have been something Donald just programmed in garage band
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: or something like that, you know, just just to have
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the idea down. And there was always a chart, you know.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I went to music school, so I could read, so
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: that's good, and so I would just kind of prepare
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: mentally about what I might want to do and just
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: have some ideas. But we would go in and just
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: start tracking. I mean, and I think it wasn't a
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: lot of direction at first. It was just let's just
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: play and we would we would turn on the there
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: was alway it's always a click. We'd play along to
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: the click and get get a nice groove happening before
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: rolling tape, which I always thought, that's really cool, you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I had never done that before where you're you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: usually it's just click in and go. We would just
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: kind of play for a while, kind of lock in
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: as a band, you know, until Donald was ready, and
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: then he lipped his hand and give the engineer the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: go ahead to turn to start rolling tape. And then
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: we'd stopped for like one second and I'd counted off
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: and you know, your body's kind of into the groove
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and everyone's kind of feeling it so that we can
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: just lock in from the start, which was pretty, uh
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: fascinating idea. But they were both you know, Donald was
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: playing roads well, Walter was playing bass. It felt like
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: we were just kind of a rhythm section, you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: working through the tunes. And it was it was a
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: lot of fun. It just felt like musicians playing together.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: It didn't feel like maybe what you hear, you know,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the stories back in the day where they're you know,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: in there like heckling the musicians or something, you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: and uh, it was. It was cool. It was maybe
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: they were just trying some you know, new ways of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: recording and uh and it it was. It was great.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: It was just great to be there, you know, part
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: of that whole thing.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me about if let's assume you got
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a demo, how would you literally prepare before you went in.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Just listening through? You know, I, if I don't have
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: a chart, I would try to just write down some
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: notes and things to remember, maybe some ideas in my
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you know what, just what just pops up right away,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: whatever my intuition might be that would sound good for
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the track. And I really, as I got deeper into it,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I realized that, you know, if I just stayed pretty
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: much with what the demo was doing, that they were
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: they were with that, like they just wanted a consistent,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: just bed of groove that they could they could build on. So,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't always know, and I didn't know
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: what the vocal line might be or what they're going
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to add to it later, you know, whether it's horns
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: or or other parts that might come in later. So
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: in a way, not knowing that you kind of you
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: don't want to get in the way of things while
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you're recording. So I think what I what I realized
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what that worked was just playing a nice you know,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: just solid maybe start with what the demo was playing
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: drum wise, and just kind of pick out what that
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: groove is or what that pattern might be, and just
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: start there and then let it evolve if need be,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: or whatever ideas that may they may have or I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: may have. But for the most part it seemed to
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: work to just just kind of stay there and.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: To what agree with the ultimately give you direction.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: You know, just it was more always about feel. It
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: was always like it wasn't necessary a lot of particular
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't technical. It was just trying to
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: get the thing to feel right the way that they
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: wanted it to feel. It's always about the groove and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: just a consistent groove that's happening that they really wanted.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And so that was my ultimate goal. I didn't want
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: to try to be too clever with it, you know,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: just try to make it feel good, keep it simple
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: for the most part, and just have a bed of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: something for them.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you have a special recording kit and what
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: do you bring to the studio?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, it depends on what the session is or
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: what I think might be needed. I mean I generally
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: have just basic, you know, five piece kit, kick drum,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: snare drum, maybe three toms, maybe four toms, you know,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: and and that's that's generally what what I'm used to playing.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Nothing too too crazy, it's pretty standard. I may change
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the snare drum depending on the track what might sound good,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes be feer snares kind of adds a
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: weight to the track to make it feel a little
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: weightier and pulled back, whereas a higher pitch snare can
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: kind of push things forward or just sound a little
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: bit more, you know, right in the middle of the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: bead kind of things like that. But you know, other
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: than that, I might change the tunings, what things. You
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: know that Steely Dan likes things to be pretty dry,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: so I would have everything muffled up pretty well. Some
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: people like it more open, meaning things ring out, you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the drums just ring and do their thing more and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: kind of resonate. So depending on the music, depending on
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: what they want, or if they just want me to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: do my thing, that's I kind of it just varies,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I just have to figure out what's going
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: to work on that day.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: So people always hear about tuning drums. What exactly is
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: tuning drums?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Ugh, it's really just I'm not scientific about it. To me,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: it's like it's really for me, it's just finding something
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: that feels good, that has a good bounce, you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: a good feel when I play it. But basically it's
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: just the tension of the head. So you just want
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to get a nice tone between the top and the
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: bottom head that works well together. And every drum kind
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of has a sweet spot range of the tone that
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: sounds good naturally, So you just kind of find that
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: whatever that drum wants to do. But yeah, I don't
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: think about it too much. I'm not one of those
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: people that tunes them to notes or anything specific. I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: just know where I like it, and it's mostly about
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the feel of it. I don't like it to be
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: fuddy and just feel like a pillow. I also don't
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: like it to feel like a table. I kind of
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: find the middle spot, you know, where it kind of
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: has a bounce, more like a rubber feel when you
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: play at your stick comes back, you know. That's what
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I like. Yeah, it's just everyone has their way of
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: doing things. It's very a personal thing and I just
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I just kind of wing it. After being in New
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: York for twenty something years, I played so many drum
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: sets that were trashed in clubs and where you just
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: go in or rehearsal halls or whatever and you just
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: have to deal, you know. I used to be really
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: particular when I was younger, had to be exactly right,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you know, or I'm not going to be comfortable. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I got to the point where, oh man, it doesn't
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: even matter. Whatever's easy and I'll make this work. And
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't take care of anything in those clubs.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So it's like you don't know what are going to get.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So I've learned to just make it work, you know.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I'll figure out a way to make them sound the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: best I can. And a lot of it's, you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: it's really in the player. It's not really just like
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: with any instrument, it's it's the player that makes it
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: makes it sound, you know.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And are you an equipment geek? Do you have tons
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of drums? Very relatively simple? What are you own?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Well, this this room right here, I would show you
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: if I could, but I don't want to mess up
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: with the camera. But I have I have a lot
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: of snare drums because snare drums kind of are important
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: when you're recording as far as getting different different sounds
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: and different vibes for the track. But I have I
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: have some old kits that I've collected. But I'm not
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a crazy vintage guy. But I do have a few things,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: some old Gretch kids that I've collected. I play Gretch
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: most of the time now, and uh, you know, I'd
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: say I have like three kits at home that I
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: interchange when I record from home, and then I don't know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I probably thirty snare drums or more. And I keep
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: a kit in New York. And you know, other than that,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: there's there's cartage places. If I'm traveling, I can use
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: their stuff or whatever, you know. But yeah, I have well,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I have my my touring kit as well, that's in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: New York that just stays there with with Steelee van Skier.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, i'd see there's like five or six kits
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: all together. So I'm not crazy, oh man, I just
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: am a fan of the sound of them. I'm a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: fan of the history. You know, a lot of my
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: favorite drummers played Dretch, so you know, like Mix Mitchell, like, uh,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: lots of lots of the greats. You know. I went
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: through a jazz phase in school, so I was really
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams and and uh, you
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: know a lot of the jazz guys played Gretch. It's
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: an American company that kind of there there they uh
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the Gretch building in Brooklyn. I used to see all
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the time crossing the Williamsburg Bridge. The building is still
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: there and it says Gretch on it and and that's
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: kind of where they started when they came over from Germany.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: The family, and it's just a really cool story, you know.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: They they it's just a classy uh vibe that they
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: have that I that I like. And it's they had
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: these really thin shells that had this resonance that they're
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: known for, and now they make lots of different stuff.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: What they're making now it's just as good as back
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: in the day, and so that's another plus. But yeah,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it's just taste. And I've just been a Gretch fan.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Every time I record, I usually use Gretch, even with
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Seely Dan.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So what is the difference between the different brands in
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: terms of sound and feel?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Well, these days, you know, everyone makes really high quality stuff.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: What you get used to. There's like an organic openness
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: about Gretch. For me, that's they're not trying too hard
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: to be high tech, Like they found something that worked
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and just stuck with it. From back in the I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: would say, you know, sixties and seventies eras, and that's
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: like all my favorite music is from that era, sixties
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and seventies and some of the eighties, and it just
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of those recordings in those days were Gretch
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and you just kind of, you know, I think that
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: that they you know, they just found something that worked,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you know, and it just it just kind of it
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: just stayed the same, and it just has that vibe.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It has that like I don't know, it's like a
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: warm tone that I really, I really dig, you know.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And what about symbols and heads.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of choices out there, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I've always been a Silgian guy who loves it. You know.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: That's just what I've always played, you know. You you
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: you kind of want to do what your heroes do
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: when you're young. You grow up and you you you
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: do notice those things, especially if you're as into it
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: as I was growing up and just wanted so hungry
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: for all the information, and you just kind of at
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: first you copy everything and then you figure out what
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: you're going to do with it all. And part of
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: it is the gear, you know. So Xilgion is kind
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: of a set of standard, just like gretched it for me.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And then there's in the in the head realm, there's
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: there's there's only a few companies that are out there
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that that are just kind of set the standard as well,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: with Remo or Evans is really great and I use
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Evans now, and it's just whatever is easy to you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: use her friendly and and they're not trying too hard
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: to be you know, because it's just drums, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: like it doesn't have to be rocket scientists making this stuff.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: It's just once you find something that works, that's just
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: how I am. I just I stick with it what
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And what is the life span of the head?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, It depends on if I'm bashing my brains out
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: or if I'm just playing uh, you know more normal.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Depends on the situation, but it can on the road,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: it can last you know, it's air drum is going
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: to go quicker because you're playing it more so those
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: can last a show or maybe two if I'm lucky,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: if it's a high energy, hard hitting thing if it's
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: if it's not, they can last months. You know. It
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: just depends on what's happening. But yeah, it varies, i'd say.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And what about the sticks?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: The sticks they last a long time for me, I
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: don't really I'm not a I don't break sticks a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: lot and I never have. And a lot of it
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I think has to do with my technique. You know,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not like I'm not hitting as hard as it
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: may look. I just use a lot of motion, a
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: lot of lift and motion, but I'm not The physics
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of it is more about the force behind it. But
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not like bashing into into the drum, you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I'm letting it rebound and it's I'm getting a big
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: sound because the momentum behind it. So it's just something
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I've worked on many for many years and tried to
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: figure out a way to get a big sound without
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: getting tired and hitting too hard. And what about the
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: width of the stick? The width of the stick, I
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: don't know. I have a size that I use, actually
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: have a stick, a signature stick with Vic Firth that
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I use, and it's it's probably somewhere in the middle.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It's not a tiny jazzy thing it's or a huge
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: rock thing. It's kind of in the middle. I don't
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: really know the diameter or the I don't really know
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: the details. But it feels good, it works, and the
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: beat of it, it's not too thick. It sounds good
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: on the symbols, and you know, I found something I like.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to Steely Dan. Granted you've been
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: working with him for twenty odd years, but the band
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: decides to go on the road. How much rehearsal is there.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: The first few tours we would rehearse probably two weeks
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: with just the rhythm section, and then another few I
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: don't know, I'm trying to think it could have been
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: more than that, which is the rhythm section including Donald Walter,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and then then I guess the horns and singers meaning
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the background singers would come in like another two weeks
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: after that, and we would do you know, I would
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: say five to six weeks of rehearsing if I remember correctly.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And then over the years as this band, it's been
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of the same personnel for a long time.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Now as we kind of started working more and more
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: in the later years, you know, it wouldn't rehearse as much.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: It would come together a lot quicker. So now we
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: will just do maybe maybe five days with them section
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: and three days with everyone else and then and then
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: go out. But there was a time where where they
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: when I first started working with them, they would do
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: a one long tour and then take a couple of
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: years off. So it I was lucky to find some
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: things in there that worked out for me, some incredible situations,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I was able to work with with staying
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and then there's a couple
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: of tours with James Taylor in there in between Steely
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Van working. There was what else. I did a tour
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: with John Mayer. I did a tour with h Toto
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Most recently Christopher Cross. A lot of
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of great a lot of a lot of
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: this music that, like I said, is kind of coming
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: from that A lot of it's coming from that same era,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: you know, which is the stuff that I love when
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: they used to make those records that were so crafted,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: you know, with all the session musicians, and I love
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. But yeah, it's it's pretty. It's kind
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: of turned into a machine after all the years. So
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: we we don't we don't have to rehearse as much.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: It usually depends on how much time has been between
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: the last time we played. You know, I guess Donald
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: will decide how much how much time we need to
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: feel comfortable.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And what about repertoire? Is Donald, you know you're gonna
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: rehearse everything you're gonna play. Is he gonna pull some
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: deep thing out? You're gonna play the same thing all
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of it's it's changed over the years,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: you know, because there's there's a set there's a standard
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: set list. I would say that has a lot of
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the same tunes, and then he'll switch out little sections
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: within that. But we would always do album nights at
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: the at the Beacon just where it started, and we
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: would do a couple of weeks at the Beacon. We
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: would do different album nights each night, so we would
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: do pretty much the whole repertoire at some point because
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: we would we would play the Royal Scam in its entirety,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: we would do Asia and its entirety. We did Countdown
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: to Ecstasy, we did Katie Live, We did you know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the entire records, and then the greatest hits after that.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: So it was it was really cool because you know,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: for us in the band, we got to play stuff
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: that we don't normally play, some of the deeper cuts
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: and uh and for the diehard fans that was that
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: was incredible. You know. We would do Donald's Nightfly record,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: or sometime during the seely Dan Knights, we would do
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: some of donald solo stuff. He would work those in
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: so it's always changing and then he would rearrange some
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: stuff that he was. You know, he gets tired of
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: playing them the exact same way. You know, some of
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: the older tracks he'll he'll rearrange every now and then.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So I think it's just because he gets bored and
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: ables to change it up.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Well, how about you. You're going on the road for
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: twenty years, certainly not every night, and you're playing the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: same songs. Are you still as excited? Do you get
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: bored you start thinking about your laundry?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I I don't. I don't really get bored.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I mean this it's you know, I obviously I have
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: nights where I'm more on than others, but I'm such
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a fan of the music, and I just I always
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: have a good time, some nice other than others, you know.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: But I'm definitely not thinking about laundry, you know, I could.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I know what I'm getting burnt out after a long tour,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: but I'm I still try to, like, you know, get
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: up there and nail it as best I can.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And what's the difference with Walter No longer? With us,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: it's a.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Huge dynamic that's missing. I mean, it's yeah, it's uh.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I guess all I can say is it's it's doable
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: because Donald is the singer. It's doable that we can
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: keep going or you know that Donald wants to keep
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: keep the band going. It's, uh, it works, but obviously
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: it's not the same. Uh. They had such a an incredible,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: you know relationship. It was it was always fun just
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: to see how they would bounce ideas off each other,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and it was, you know, half the time it was
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: it was over our heads, you know, just follow their
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: their sense of humor and their references and you know,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: just having that background together, growing up together. It was.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: It was cool to see that. And I'm sure it
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: must be weird for Donald to just be up there
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: without his partner of all those years. You know, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: can't imagine that. But it's it's you know, it's cool,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: and it's the music is what matters, and the fact
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: that Donald is wanting to keep it going. It's it's
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: a beautiful thing for everyone.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you said you went to school in Texas.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Where'd you grow up?
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I grew up in Mississippi. I was born in Greenville, Mississippi,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: which is in the Mississippi Delta.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: You know, most people are not that Mississippi savvy, you know,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: northern Mississippi is like Tennessee. Southern Mississippi is a world
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: up to itself. Where is that where you grew up?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And how far is the biggest town went, I'll give
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: me a little bit more.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, Greenville the delta is kind of like north Mississippi,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: like below Memphis. If you know where Memphis, Tennessee is
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: just like right below that. So it's in that area
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: kind of like I don't know, not central Mississippi, but
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: like maybe just below Memphis. That's kind of where I
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: was born. And then we moved south to the Jackson area,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: which is central centrally located in a town called Clinton, Mississippi,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: which is where I grew up from like age five
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: through high school. And then well, I mean it was
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: it was a great place to grow up. I mean,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of rich musical culture in that area,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and I was not quite aware of it all until
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I got older, but just being around people that knew
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: it could turn me on to things. You know. I
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: had some great teachers along the way, But I was
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: certainly influenced by New Orleans, which was not far you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans music. I really got heavily into that.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Of course, Memphis had the Stacks Recordings just up the road,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: so to speak, and then you had Muscle Shoals Alabama
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: not too far like that. Whole region is just really
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: rich of American music culture. That's pretty insane, you know,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and I learned more about it later. But it's just
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: cool to be from that. You know, it doesn't seem
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: it doesn't see. It seems rare. You know. There's not
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that say, yeah, I'm from Mississippi,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: so it's kind of I don't know, it's definitely a
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: communication starter, you know, people I didn't know people lived
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: in Mississippi.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So is your family have a long history in Mississippi.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: What did your father their mother do for a living.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: My yeah, both my parents were from there, well, I
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: guess the majority of their lives. I think my dad
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: was originally from Schenecade, New York. My mom was from there.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: She was a school teacher. She taught in elementary school
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: and I know she taught kindergarten at one point. My
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: dad was he worked at Mississippi Valley Gas Company in Jackson,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: and he was a corrosion engineer, which basically he had
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: accounts he would go to annually or semi annually. I
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: don't know exactly. I don't remember how it worked, but
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: he would just basically go and do leak at surveys
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and it was a natural natural gas accounts he would
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: have at various locations, and I guess if he found
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: a leak, he would get it fixed and you know
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. It probably was more involved in that,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: but that's that's really all I could. That's all I
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: knew at the time about it. But yeah, definitely not
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: musicians I was. I was just one of the weird
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: people that kind of figured out what they want to
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: do at an early age. It wasn't because of my family.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I had two I had two older sisters. They weren't
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: musicians really, but they I think played some piano, but they,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: you know, they weren't serious about it. But there was
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: always music in the house and that's kind of how
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it all started, just being around music all the time.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: What kind of music.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I can remember, just various stuff. I remember. Obviously we
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: were listening to a lot of you know, top forty
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: radio growing up in classic rock and stuff like that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: But I remember there were some Paul McCartney and Wings.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I remember the Beg's there some Beatles, there was you know,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: like popular music of the day. There was there was
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: trying to think various stuff, you know, and I think
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: listening to just really it was just a sponge, you know.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I was like listening to whatever, whatever I whatever was around,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and I was just drawn to the rhythm and and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: you know, drums and music. I just somehow knew that's
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: what I wanted to do.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Well, a little bit slower, How did you start playing
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the drums and the drums your first instrument?
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my first instrument. I I was I
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: was just trying to think, you know. I would watch
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the Johnny Carson Show and see Buddy Rich on there
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: or other. Ed Shaughnessy was the drummer in the band.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: It was like always, you know, musical guests that I'd
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: be into and and and then later I got into
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Late Night with David Letterman, which kind of started my
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: whole infatuation with New York City, and I knew I
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: wanted to go there. You know. At some point I
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: fell in love with New York. So, you know, I
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: guess my parents realized that I was into this thing,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and they got me the toy kits that a lot
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: of parents start out with to see how it goes,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to get too too locked in.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And those those paper heads they last about two days,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you know, and uh, and then I just kept wanting more.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And eventually I think someone recommended to my parents get
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: them a snare drum, you know, start there, and and
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: then I started just getting more and more into it,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: and I wanted a drum set. I got my first
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: drum set. I talked to my dad into it. I
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: think I was around nine ten, and that's when it
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: really got serious because I was just listening to all
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: kinds of different music in the house and just trying
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: to figure out what they were doing and just picking
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: out the parts, you know, by year. And the great
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: thing was is that I didn't just play drums by
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: myself for very long. There was there was some other
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: musicians in the neighborhood that I met that were older
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: than me that and they needed a drummer. It was
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: just perfect timing and we ended up putting this literally
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: a garage band together and we just played classic rock
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: and stuff that they were into. And this guy's name
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: was David Duncan. I remember going into his house. We'd
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: set up in his garage for a long time for
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: several years, and just practiced there, like almost every day,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: just playing, just just learning music. I think we finally
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: got some gigs, but it was just more about just
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: just the the escape of just going in that garage
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: and playing together and inviting people over as we were jamming.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: And and then eventually my parents realized that this wasn't
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: going to go away. They were they were like, okay,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: what are we going to do? So they they they
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: built a soundproof room in our garage, so that became
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: a place where we would rehearse and I would play.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I couldn't wait to get home from school to play,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: and always practicing, always playing, putting in the work, you know,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: just and then as soon as I could, I got
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: into the school programs and found some great teachers and
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: in the area. I wanted to do it all, you know.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be in the marching band. I wanted
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: to play. I was already the drummer. I was like,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: you know it, I think any musician can probably relate
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: like is a lot of us are kind of We're sensitive,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and we're introverted most of the time, and like this
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: is our kind of our self esteem and our identity
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: is these whatever we decide to play, you know, it
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: becomes like that's how I was anyway. I was just like, man,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: this is this is everything, and I became that the
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: drummer guy. You know, so everybody. But it was it
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: was a great time. It was a good, good place
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: to grow up. And I was around people that were
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: older than me that that was teaching me about playing
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: in a rhythm section and you know, what is the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: kick drum and the bass drum need to do? How
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: does that work together? And you know all those things
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: that that I learned at an early age, you know,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: just playing with people, playing with other humans, then just
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: sitting in a practice room by myself. It seems like
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: that's what a lot of young drummers are doing these days.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: They just they can play a lot of great stuff
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and they're putting out their Instagram videos, but it's you know,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they've really played in a band before.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: You know, you can kind of tell that they have
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: or not, you know, but I was lucky. I was
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: lucky to have that opportunity right away to play with
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: people and just kind of start there.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit more in playing in bands in
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: high school. I mean, was this you know we hear
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: from some people. Oh yeah, I played in clubs or
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I played every school dance. What was your situation?
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: We ended up well as far as school goes. I
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: got into the marching band, I did symphonic band, I
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: played other percussion instruments, and I had to, like, I
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: remember when it first started. I guess it was seventh grade,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the band program. I had to let the
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: band director know I was already a drummer, you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: like I'm not going to sit here and audition on,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: not going to work on my amishor on a tuba,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: you know, and let you pick what I'm going to play.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to play the drums, you know.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And it worked, it worked out. But but yeah, I
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: got to any any school band program that they had,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: whether it was we had a show choir, we didn't
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: have a jazz band. We had a show choir. I
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: was the drummer, and that it was like a song
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and dance group, you know, doing like a variety show
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: kind of thing, and you know, even trying to think
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what else was happening in the high school days. But
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: but I was playing, you know, in these bands when
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I get home from school. I think we finally I
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: got a gig or two at clubs and my parents
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: would have to take me and stay with me to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: get me in and that kind of thing, because I was,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, probably eleven twelve at this point, playing
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: in cars and yeah, so you know that my parents
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: were supportive. So that was cool that that was I
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: think because it was so foreign to them, this whole
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: musician thing, because it's just wasn't anything that they were.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: They just didn't know anything about it. So I think
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: they just kind of saw it as exciting because it
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: was so different from you know, what they had done
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: up until that point, and I was taking this risk,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: and I think they enjoyed that because it could have
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: gone the other way. You know, it could have been like,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? But luckily I had
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: they were open enough to deal with it. But yeah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: and then when I got into college, I went to
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: North Texas and and it's in the Dallas area in Denton, Texas.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I was, you know, previously playing a lot of rock
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: and R and B and soul music, groove music. I
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: was really into a lot of that I wanted to
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: learn more. I was getting more into progressive stuff and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: fusion jazz rock, kind of all that kind of thing
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: that was more sophisticated, and I wanted to get more
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: into the jazz thing because I didn't know a lot
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: about it. I was just starting to kind of dab
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: into it from teachers turning me on to stuff, and
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: so U and T University of North Texas is known
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: as a really good jazz program and jazz school. So
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: that's really why I just decided to go there because
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: I wanted to just challenge myself something new and different.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: And I had decided that, you know, I want to
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: do this New York thing, and and the jazz influence
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: was going to probably help that out, you know, just
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: just to kind of incorporate that into my playing where
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I could just kind of draw from that whenever I
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: need to. And but yeah, I was doing, you know,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: taking lessons in that genre of music and then playing
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: with various musicians in the Dallas area. I was, I
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: was playing. It got to a point where I was
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: playing seven nights a week and then also going to school,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: trying to go to school, you know, but I was
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: playing a lot. It was was almost like a training ground,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: you know, before I moved to New York. But there
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: was a lot of great players in Dallas. I think
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the school brings in a lot of talent and they
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: stick around and there's just a lot of great players there.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: At the time. This would have been you know, late eighties,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: early nineties, I guess. And I I was playing in
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: this band called Dallas Brass and Electric and we played
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the you know, a lot of
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: it was a cover band. We did what most of
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: those bands would do, but we also because of the
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: horn section, we'd play like Tower Power and Berthman and
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Fire Chicago and you know, just great horn music, R
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: and B stuff, and it was it was really great.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: It's really it was a great band and we played
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: all the time for years. I was in that band,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: and it just it did a lot for me growing
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: as a musician. It was. It was really a great time.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, it was just it was a
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: great time to be in in Texas and that at
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: that time at UNC, there was just a lot going on.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how it is now, but
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: at that time it was great.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that's outside the classroom certainly many musicians never
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: go to college, never mind music college. So in retrospect,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: what did you learn and was it to your benefit
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: in the classroom, I.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Think I gained more from just you know, getting out
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: and playing. But what was cool was being around peers
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: that turned me on to stuff, you know, turn me
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: onto music I didn't know about, or just just you know,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: check this out, you know kind of stuff. Just and
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: and getting together with other players and playing and just
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: growing that way, changing ideas. And had some great teachers
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: for sure. Ed sof was was the drum set teacher there,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: and he was it was pretty life changing what we
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: got into. So that was that was great. That part
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of it was great, But I think just being around
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: it and having that opportunity to grow, you know, before
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I made the big move, I think it was just
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: a it was it was you know, some people aren't
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: into the music school idea, but it works out well
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: for me. I think I was I kind of needed that.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I needed more time to figure stuff out, you know,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: before I went to the big city to see what
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: could happen.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: You know, so you graduate from college and take me
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: from there.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't graduate, I remember, I remember Ed so of
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: actually telling my mom, my teacher there, that yeah, Keith,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Keith could just should just go. Just let him go,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: let him see what happens. You know. I always thought
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: that was kind of cool that he went there, because
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: you would think he'd be like, oh, he's got to
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: finish his degree, but he was. He was cool enough
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: to tell my mom that. And my mom was like,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh. She was very, very very and you know,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: great great lady, but just just really conservative and it's
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: like you got to finish that degree kind of thing,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: you know. But anyway, so he convinced her that it
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: was okay.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: How far are you from a degree? How long were
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: you there?
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I was there for four years. I was
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: there from I guess eighty nine to ninety two, and
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: then I was still playing a lot in Dallas Fort
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Worth area. So I was working all the time, just
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: playing gigs, gig after gig, different types of stuff, a
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: little bit of session work here and there. There's a
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: lot of jingles going on in that in that area
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: at that time. And I stayed in Dallas for another
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I would say maybe three to four years, just gigging. Yeah,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: just gigging and just kind of getting my Like it
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: was I needed to get away from school to kind
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: of process everything and just kind of have time to
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: to figure out what just happened. You know, so much
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: information that it was good to just stop the classroom
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: stuff and just get out and play and focus on that.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: And I was practicing all the time, you know, it
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: was that time of when I put it in all
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: the hours. You know, just just I knew at some
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: point I was going to get out and see what
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: else I could find, you know, because because I pretty
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: much you know, you can make a decent living, I guess,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: but I had I just I just wanted to see
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: what else was out there. You know.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: So how did you end up going to New York?
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: How did I end up going?
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's the dream. You go to college
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: for four years, you spend more years in Dallas. People
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: always talking about going to the big city, and most
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: don't even make the effort.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, it was just time and I
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: and I I had some friends that went to school
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: with me that had previously moved there, so it felt like,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna know a few people already. And
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: then I just I just saved some dough It wasn't
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: a lot, but it was. I had a little bit
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: of a cushion there. And a guy that I went
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: to school with, his name was Josh Was. He let
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: me move in with him. He needed a roommate in
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: the East Village, and I just I drove up from Dallas,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: brought a few things, and a couple of friends helped
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: me unload, and there I was, you know, like I was.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: I knew I was going to live in Manhattan. I
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to live in the other boroughs or Jersey
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: or anything. I was going to be in the middle
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: of it. I wanted to just walk out my door
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: be in that city, just be there, you know, and
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I could walk down the street to hear any almost
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: any night of the week. I could go here like
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: some of my heroes play at a club, you know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: So that that was incredible. But I knew I wanted
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: to be in the city, and I was just gonna
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: go and see what could happen. Luckily, my roommate at
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: the time that all worked out. I was on Fifth
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Street between Second and Third Avenue, and uh I I
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: ended up. I guess it was maybe six months into
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: it or so being there that I got into a
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: few things where I was playing. I was playing at
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: the Bitter End on like every Sunday night they had
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a jam and I was asked to be like the
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the house drummer for the jam and that was, Oh,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: that was really fun because a lot of people came
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: in and you know, it was some there was some
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: really good players. There were something that weren't, but it
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: was it was a great place to hang and just
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: meet meet people. It was just just rotating, uh, you know,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: people just coming in and out and just playing all night.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: So it was really cool and a lot of stuff
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: came out of that, you know, just meeting those people.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: And because you know, this is pre social media and
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: I think it was pre cell phone. I remember having
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: a pager in those days. You know, the pager would
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: go off and you hope, you oh, I got a gig.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: You have to hurry up and call go to a payphone,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: you know. But yeah, I got into some situations really
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: that was really great. I ended up getting an audition
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: with Harry Belafonte and I got the gig and I
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: worked with him for a couple of years on and off,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: going on the road. Just some Vega shows did some
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: theater around the US, and that was great, great band,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: great musicians. We did a lot of eclectic music and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: different stuff, African music of course, all the hits and stuff.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: It was really fun. There was also I had a
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: contact from North Texas with Lou Marini Blue Lou from
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: you know, the Blues Brothers band, and you know, of
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: course he's done a million other things, but he's certainly
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: known for the Blues Brothers and we got to know
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: each other in Dallas. Whenever he would come back, he
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: has family there, he would come back and we ended
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: up he ended up sitting in with this band that
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I was playing, the horn band I was telling you about,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: and so we kind of kept in touch a little bit.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: I remember the days of back in those days, we
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: would you know, hand out business cards or it's kind
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: of it sounds silly now, but in a demo tape,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: you know, a cassette tape every now and then I
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: would hand them out and just hope for the best,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: you know, if someone cares enough to listen, and you
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: know whatever. But he was one of the guys that
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: actually responded, you know, and he dug what I when
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I gave him, and what he heard and I thought
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: that was really cool. And when I got to New York,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: he kind of took me under his wing. He like
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: introduced me to a lot of people and he and
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: he got me in with the Blues Brothers. I started
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: touring with those guys. It was like the original Blues
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Brothers band and I was. It was Steve Cropper, Duck
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Dunn was there some of the time when he wasn't
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: There was another bass player named Eric Udell. There was
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: you know, of course Lou on saxophone, Alan Rubin, mister
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: fabulous Birch Johnson was on trombone, Leon Pandarvis on keys.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Rusty Cloud would play keys sometimes when Leon wasn't there,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Matt guitar, Murphy like all the guys. Of course, Akroyd
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and Belushi weren't there. There was different singers. They had
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: a guy from New York named Tommy McDonald and Eddie
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Floyd knock on wood. Eddie Floyd would sing with the
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: band and we would go to Japan. We would go
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: all over Europe the blues festivals and various various things.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: People went nuts over that band, as they should. I mean,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: it's a party, you know. It was just like get
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: out there and played feel good music and people love
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: those songs. I mean, the whole Blues Brothers movie is
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: such a phenomenon. I mean there's there's kids that still
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: would show up dressed in the in the suits and
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: the hat and the glasses. You know. It was so cool. Uh,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: it was amazing. And that was my first experience, you know,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: traveling the world and playing music, you know, and it
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: was it was awesome, you know, just to play with
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: those guys and you know, they they basically came up
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: with with a lot of what I grew up loving
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and just you know, the whole Stacks thing and just
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: all those songs. Just so much history there, you know,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: just to kind of get a piece of that was fun.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Just to be work with those guys. It was I
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: learned a lot, you know, it was it was great.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: So I had the I had that going on. I
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: had the the the Harry Belafonte thing going on, and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: then I had this kind of more jazz oriented stuff,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: underground stuff with Wayne Krantz that I was mentioning earlier,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: which is how I met Donald Walter. So I was
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: able to get into some things in New York that
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: that it just kind of just snowballed and led to
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: other stuff, you know, and you know, that was it
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: was a very I just loved New York so much.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I just had like this infatuation with it that I
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: remember the first time I went there, I was I
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: was selected to be in the McDonald's All American High
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: School Band and I got to march in the Macy's
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: parade on the snare drum and we had like the
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: TV moment in front of Macy's and did our thing,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: and and I was just I mean, I was a
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: junior in high school and this being in the big city,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: marching down street, I was in heaven. I was like, man,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: this is where I'm going to live. This is it,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to do it. And I just knew.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I just knew from that point on, this is where
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: I was going to go, you know. And so I'm
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: just glad I did it. I'm glad I didn't chicken out,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: because it was definitely the most intimidating place to go,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: you know, at least to me.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: It was Okay, you're a drummer, you find your way.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: This is when sessions are still happening, and there are
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: other working musicians who are not going on the road
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: on a regular basis, So paint picture of what was
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: going on then and what your placing it was.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I have to say, you know, I moved to
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: New York around I guess it was ninety six, and
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I kind of missed the heyday of the session thing
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: when when things were killing. I mean, they were just
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: you know, these and eighties. From what I hear, it was,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: it was just like you would go to three or
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: four sessions a day and just you know, just studio
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: to studio and cunning records left and right, and I
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: just I missed all that. And so you know, I've
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: I've been able to do sessions more now than I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: did then, almost like it's kind of turned around. But
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: in those days when I first moved to New York,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: I was more or less I was kind of I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: was doing more live work, and I was on the
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: road all the time. And the only time I mean
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: just wasn't I wasn't really in the city. As much
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: as I could, I couldn't figure out a way to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: make it work just being in the city. I had
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: to go on the road. So yeah, I just think
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: missing that the era where it was really really happening
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: was a part of it. But I also just got
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I just found my niche where I was just kind
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: of this live drummer that it just seemed like that's
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: kind of where it went, you know, without I didn't
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: plan anything out. It just kind of went to that
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: place where I was just going from tour to tour
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: and the occasional session would come up. And I've done
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: some records that I'm really proud of, you know, over
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: the years. But it's I feel like I'm recording more
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: now than I did then.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're on the road. A do you like
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: being on the road and b are you happy? Or
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: you say I have a bigger dream than this.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I love the road. I love it. I love you know.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I'm older now, so I can't say I love, you know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: being tired all the time and things like that. When
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: I was you younger, it didn't matter. I could just
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: bounce back. And but I love touring and I love
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: playing live. I mean, that's what I really that's that's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: what you're getting paid for, is the show, which is
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: just two hours out of the day, you know, and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: then everything else is I guess I should say it
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: the other way you're getting paid for all the travel
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: and and you know, dealing with all that stuff. But
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: I but I love traveling and I love you know,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I got to see the world and do things that
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: I never thought was possible to experience. That was it's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: just been incredible. But I you know, I I yeah,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I I've just been really I like doing both.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: I like having the session side of things because it's
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: it's a lot more structured and you can experiment with
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: sounds and and you know, if possible, if there's time,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: you can really really experiment with approaches and things like that,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: whereas live it's just about the energy and the moment
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: with the audience, and there's there's nothing like that. I mean,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: that's what I love more than anything.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: So if you can go on the road with varying
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: acts till you can play no more physically, you're happy.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. So, Yeah, I'm just kind of taking
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: it day by day here.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're working with the Jazz Trio, et cetera.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: You get the gig in Steely Dan. That's one vertical
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to what do weed getting this gig in Steely Dan?
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: Does that change your profile and create opportunities.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Well day STEELYE. Dan definitely put me on the map,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you know, in a much bigger way. That it's because
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: you know, it was just the most high profile thing
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: that I had ever been a part of, and a
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: lot of people took notice like who is this new guy?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: You know, kind of came out of nowhere and it
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: opened up doors and it still does. You know. It's
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: it's such a It created a lot of opportunity for me,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: and there's just a credibility there that it puts you
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: on a higher rank if you've worked with them, and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: that's that's been amazing, I mean just to have have
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: the chance to work with those guys. But because it's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: it's so well revered and such a it's kind of
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: like it's the ultimate, you know, one of them. I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: think of those guys, man, I think I think of
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Becker and Fagan is like that's to me, it's like
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Lennon and McCartney, I mean, the they it's the American
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: version of that. I mean, they really just prolific songwriters
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: and changed changed music, you know, changed the whole course
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: of things, you know, and their whole unique story with
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: all the session musicians, all the I mean, so many
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: great players have played on their records, and just to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: be a part of that lineage of players, just to
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: be thought of in that clubs you know, super cool,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you say you played with Sting, you played
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: with James Taylor, you played with Toto. How does that happen?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: You're sitting at home and they say we want you
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: or do you come in and they feel you out,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: whether it's you're good, are you competing with people? Tell
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: me a little bit more.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: A lot of it is word of mouth. I think
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of it's the fact that I worked with
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Steely Dan. I think sometimes people would be in the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: audience and liked what they heard and maybe spread the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: word to someone. I mean, it's various things that just
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: organically happened and the stars aligned and somehow it happened.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: You know. I've never had a manager. I don't have
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I do everything myself. I don't I don't have any help.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: I just and if someone's interested, they either would call
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: me or I'd get a random email. I've always had
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: a presence online once that existed, and that's been a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: great tool to be there and to be uh, you know,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm reachable that way. And yeah, I think it's
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: just all those variousuations and uh, it's just kind of snowballs.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: So tell me about getting the gig with Sting and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: you play with these acts and then you stop playing
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: with them. What causes the end.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: They don't call you back? I don't know, that's that's
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: the you know. I think either they move on with
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: something else or I don't really have I don't always
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: have those answers, because yeah, I think it's uh, you
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: know you you I guess I've wondered that. I wondered, like, uh,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: what what goes on in someone's head to to make changes?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: And that that's me that's just kind of their right
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: to do, right, you know. But sometimes times it's just
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: scheduling conflicts or whatever, or sometimes you just don't you know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: once it's over, it's over.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: So how often is that they call you, and whether
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: it be people you've worked with four other people say
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: I just can't do it. I'm booked.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: It happened a lot at one point. It's it's been
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole COVID thing, you know, shut down
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: things for a while. So I'm just it almost feels
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: like it's still coming back, you know, but uh, it's
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: I guess that's the hard part about being an independent musician,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: you know sidemen where I'm trying to schedule things and
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: and then I know, well, this is you know, I
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: got to keep this open, and then it's like trying
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: to it's it becomes a mess. You know. This is
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: when I wish I had a manager sometimes you know,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: to deal with it. But but there's also slow periods
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: where you just uh waited out for the next thing
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: to happen. So yeah, it's it's just part of of
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: it's like an exciting part of the gig. And then
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: it's also it sucks because you don't know what's going
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: to happen next, But it's also exciting not knowing. Maybe
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: at least you have to tell yourself that.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: You know, so, how long might it be slow? And
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: how did you cope with COVID both emotionally and monetarily.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, slow periods are usually expected. Certain parts
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: of the year are usually slow, you know, like around
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: holiday time, at the end of the year through maybe
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: you know the next summer. Sometimes you know, it just
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: it just became kind of expected, but you never never
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: in my wildest dreams that we did. Anyone expect things
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: to shut down, the entire live music industry to just
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: completely shut down for whatever it was. It feels like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: three years, you know, two years pretty much. I mean
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: we were the first thing to go and the last
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: to come back. And you know, it was rough, you know,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: it was like very It was depressing because that was
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: what I did. I'm I'm I have to get out
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: and play, you know, I have to. I want to
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: move around and keep busy and and play shows. That's
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: what I do. But I was forced to find other
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: things to do. I was able to finally get a
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: home studio really up and running. I'd been wanting to
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: do that for years and just kept putting it off
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: because I was always in the road or always had
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: an excuse. But that's one thing that positive that came
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: out of it. I was able to get that up
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: and running. I had some engineers to help me, and
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I learned more about pro tools where I'm self sufficient.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: I can record drums from home and get really good sounds,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: and so that that's like something that was I guess
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: a blessing that came out of it. And I have
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: three young daughters, so that it was great to be
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: home with them and just to be a part of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: their lives a lot more than I would have been.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: And so that was great. I love that. And you know, financially,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: it was it was it was a challenge. It's a
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: long time, but it was really it felt like almost
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: three years of not the usual state income. Luckily, I've
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: always been a saber and I've invested and things like that.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not you know, that's another thing I really got
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: into it. It's learning more about how how the financial
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: world works and learning about all that stuff you know
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: that doesn't really get taught. You kind of own your
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: own with with all that. But that's been kind of
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: fun to learn about. And but yeah, it was rough
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and I and I applied for some of those PPP
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: loans and I got through it, and I had to
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: dip into some IRA money and that was a drag,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: but I got us through it, you know, And had
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: I not had that, we'd be screwed. Probably would have
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: had to sell my house or something.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, And now you're talking about your endorsement deal yet
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: with Vic Firth. To what degree do you have endorsement deals?
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: How do those work and when did those arrive?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Well, the endorsement stuff I have or with Gretch drums
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: who I've been with since I guess twenty twelve or
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: so Zilgin since the early days nineties, and Vic Firth sticks.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I have a signature model, so I get a little
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: bit of a royalty with the sales of that one.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: I also have a signature snare drum with Gretch that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: I get a royalty from, which is cool. But what
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: else am I missing? Oh Evan's drumheads. And then I
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: also have a deal with Earthworks Mics. That's what I
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: use on the road and also at home in the studio.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: You can see the drums behind me. This is where
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: I track. Actually, so it happened. You know, basically, once
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: you get a high profile gig or you're someone these days,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: it's different, but at least you know, I'm old school,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: so back back when you you just kind of had
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: to get a gig and have visibility, they would be
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: interested in signing you on. And I got to know
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: some of the guys. Being in New York, I was
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: able to have access to to that world a little
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: better when they would come to town for various things and
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: got to know some of the guys that the drum
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: companies and and so you know, it's good to have
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: a relationship with those guys. And it's not just about
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: getting free stuff, you know, it's it's really having a
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: relationship and and you know you're in it together. You know,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: you're out there pushing their brand, and then they're also
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: helping you with the gear. So it's and it really
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: comes in handy when you're on the road and you're
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: not on a tour like I've been on various tours,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: but different budget levels. You know, sometimes there's not a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: budget to bring all your stuff, so you're you're going
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: to get backline at every gig. So it's good to
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: have endorsements, especially in those situations, because they can help
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: you get what you need to each venue and make
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: sure it's what you want and that kind of thing,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: which can be great, but it's just an agreement, you Like,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: I got to know the guys and they would ask
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: me if I was interested, or I would tell them
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: I was interested, and you know, just work it out,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: work out a situation.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. Another thing you're into is education. Tell me about that.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: I've done a little bit of private teaching here and there,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: but I don't do a lot of it. I I
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: don't love I don't love it. I don't love teaching.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: But what I did find that I did enjoy was
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: just doing like the occasional like they call it clinics
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: or masterclass or something like that, where it's a group
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: of people, have an audience and it's just a one
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: time show where I just basically I'll do some playing
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: and I'll talk about some things and then open it
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: up for questions, and so it just kind of goes
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: wherever the audience takes it, you know. So it's really
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: a good way to kind of reach the level of
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: the people in the room where they're at, and they
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: can kind of just interactive, you know, you can kind
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: of feel it out and see what they might get
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: at it, what they interest are, and hope that they
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: can get something out of what I have there to
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: give and say. But I used to do a lot
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: of those. A lot of these companies that I'm involved
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: with would sponsor tours, you know, I would do like
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: a two week clinic tour, or if I was had
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: a day off somewhere, we could maybe schedule something at
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: a music store or university or school or whatever. It
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: might be drum shop or something. So I've done a
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: lot of those over the years, and I really enjoy it.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't seem to be a budget for it
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: like there used to be. I think the companies have
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: cut back on that funding that stuff. It's not that
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: not the same. But I have enjoyed doing that, and
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: I've done some drum camps where you spend like a
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: week with the students at various locations. I did one
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: in Greece a while back. I've done some in the UK,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: and there's there's a lot of communities, different places that
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: do these things every year, and so they'll call different
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: people every year to be a part of that. But
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: that's that's probably as far as it goes I've done.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: I did a DVD, an instruction of DVD that came
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: out like two thousand and eight, I think. But that's
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: that's the gist of it.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: Okay. So let's say they call you to work and
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: you're booked. Who do you tell them to call and
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: who are your drum favorites heroes living and dead?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: You know, if I I'll just say I'm not available,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: I guess, and if they if they or if I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: if I think of someone that I think would be
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: good for it, I'll certainly recommend someone. Of course, it
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: just depends on what it is and who I think
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: might be good for it. But as far as influences
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: and I I I always mess with this question because
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: there's so many I'll forget, but you know, going back
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: to like Keith Moon and John Bonham, uh, Mitch Mitchell,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Charlie Watts, like Steve Jordan, the New Orleans side of things.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: I love the Meters. That was a big influence to
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Goboo model LISTE was the drummer Great Dunner, Uh, David Garibaldi,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: Tower Power, Uh. In the jazz world, like, oh, there's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: so many I went through. Uh well in the jazz
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: world like Tony Williams and Alvin Jones and Jack d Jeanette,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: Bill Stewarts and and I like a lot. Uh She's
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Neil Peart was one that I grew up being a
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: huge rush band. So that was a big influence. Stuart
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Copeland with the Police, all the all the session guys
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: like Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdy, Rick Morata, Ed Green like
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: all these these are some of the ones that are
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: on all these Steely Dan records, you know, because being
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: being a part of that is, like I've always said,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: it's like the greatest drum school, Like because there's so
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: many great players on all those tracks from all those
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: records that getting to play them you're you're kind of
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: channeling them in a way night after night, but but
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: also making it your own. At the same time, you're
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: kind of like paying homage to that what they were
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: doing that day in the studio because it's so much
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: a part of the track, all those details that are
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: involved and the feel of it and how it all
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: works together in the rhythm section, everybody's part. You know,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: there's a focus there. But then it kind of turns
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: over the years, it's turned into me kind of doing
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: my version of it. It just morphs into that over time.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: But in the beginning, I was studying another records. Man,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: just you know, all those Steely Dan records, and there's
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: so many great great tracks. There's Dave Weckel, There's there's
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Dennis Chambers and Vinnie Kelly Uda, all these guys. Those
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: were like when I was in high school, those were
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: like everyone was listening to those those three guys. There's
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: so many man, I could, I'm gonna.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, well believe it at that, So we don't. Less
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: we talk about it, the more everybody's left out will
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: feel more comfortable. So we're not working with Steel Dan.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: If you go on your website, you're doing other gigs.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: What are you doing when you're not working with Steely Dan.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: We're going to go out with the Eagles momentarily and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: anything else booked down the pike.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of sessions from home. That's what
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of and that's been great
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: and really nice because it's kind of on my own,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: something on time, really and it's kind of nice to
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: have a little business from home and get to play
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of different types of music. And I just
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: get contacted online from various people from really all over
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: the world. It's it really is amazing. It freaks me
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: out that this is possible, that you can just send
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: your tracks, you know, I know it's I'm kind of
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: late to the game, but but it's it's really cool.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of that. I when I'm home,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: I do if I'm not on the road, I'm basically
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: we doing the dad thing. I have three three young daughters,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: and my wife Lynn, who you know, we just we're
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: just kind of They keep us so busy, man, It's
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: just so much going on in their lives, and I
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: try to be a part of it as much as
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: I can to be there. If I'm home, I'm there,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: you know. So that's a lot.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: But you're also on the road, not with Steely Dan.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah right. I did a tour with Christopher Cross this summer,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: which was great, a lot of fun. I did you
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: know the jazz thing comes up every now and then
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: I was in Japan at the Blue Note with with
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Robin Ford and Bill Evans, Darryl Jones from the Stones,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: I'm bass and that was so much fun. We were
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: there earlier this year. I even did a tour with
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: Wayne the Krantz Trio with Tim Lavay. We were out
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: earlier this year in Europe. So, I mean, there's always
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: stuff going on and it's fun. I like, I like
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: changing it up. I like I like doing different things,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: so it just keeps things fresh and fun.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just assume there's no work. Will you
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: wait for work to play or do you play every day?
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Back in the day, I would play a lot, but
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: now it's it's kind of I play if I if
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: I have the work, because otherwise I'm I'm busy with
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: the kiddos and stuff. You know.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: So let's say there was no work for two weeks,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: do you ever get a Handkory Man, I got to play?
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Or waiting for the call or the email.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, I'll play at that point, I'll probably play a
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: little bit. You know, I can't be without it too long.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: But but back in the old days, when I was younger, man,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: it was like I would flip out if I wasn't
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: playing every single day. I mean, you know, it's funny
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: how things change, But yeah, I was. It was extreme,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: really ridiculous.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Keith, I want to thank you for taking this
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: time to talk to me and my audience. How long
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: are you going on on the road with Steely Dan?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: How far out is that booked?
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: Right now? It's just September through November, and we start
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: rehearsals next week in New York and then we'll be
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: out Steely Dan and the Eagles, which should be a
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: lot of fun and killer night of music and yeah,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: and then we'll see what happens after that. Hopefully there's more.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: That's for sure. If you go to see Keith, you'll
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: know it's him behind the act. He's that dynamic and
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: that impressive in an event. Thanks again, Keith.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the interest. Man.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan and follow your newsletter and have
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: for years, and as does my wife, so it's really
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: an honor to be with you today. Man, Thank you well.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: It's great. I'm a huge fan of your music too.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Leftstats