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Shrek Forever After · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, z
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: EFFI bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Shrektel Cast.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Whoas twenty twenty four baby nothing matters anymore and we're
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: rebranding women. It's over intersectionality.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: It's all about Shreks now, it's all.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: About Shrek hates being a father. After one week, it's
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: so hard, it stinks. We don't like it. Oh, raising
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: my own children. I feel fucking sick in my head.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: What would the Shrektel test be? Oh?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I think this? Okay? I was gonna make an argument
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: that this movie really passes attractile test because it's like,
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: how many Shreks are talking to each other about being
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Shrek in this movie. Like there's a whole sequence whereas
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: just like Shreks are talking to Shreks are talking to Shreks,
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: and they're talking about liberating Shreks. I'm like, this is like,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: this is the Shrek Dell test.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: All.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: It was like it's almost like you know when you
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: see seeing in a Marvel movie that it's like, oh,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: someone told Kevin Faigey about the Bechdel Test, and now
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: he's like, well, just have something, have something, and it
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: feels forced. It was like that, but with like four
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: hundred Shreks.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I there's a John ham Shrek. There's a unbelieveable Craig
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Robinson Shrek.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: There is a Craig Robinson Shrek. There's a Kristin Shawl Shrek.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: No witch, but there is a everyone is Jane Lynch's Shrek.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: There is a Jane Lynch Shrek. And if that's not
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: twenty ten, tell me what is.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I mean? Seriously, the witches have green skin. You think
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: there would be solid among the witches and the Shreks.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And I have some thoughts on that, and I have
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: some thoughts on that. And also like the randomest man
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: in the world, Walt Dorn, who no offense to Walt Dorn,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: but who are you? It's baffling. Anyways, He's truly some guy.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: He like works in animation and they're like, you're fun,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: and it's like he, I mean, whatever, whatever. This is
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: a main feed. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name's
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Jimmie Loftis.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminis lens. Before
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: we even get into more details about that, the Shrek sinle?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: What Intershrek sinle? Excuse me, I can't try to say
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Intershrek sinle?
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: No feminist lens.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Do you see your isaacly I did see it and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I loved it.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you Aten.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Before we talk any more about intertrectionality, yep, I would
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: love to plug the tour that we have coming up. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So you might have already heard listeners that Jamie and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I are going on tour and it's for the most
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: part a tour where we are covering the movie Barbie,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: so get excited. We are doing shows in San Francisco
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: for SF Sketch Fest on February first, then we're scooping
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: over to Sacramento. We're doing a show on Barbie that
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: unfortunately is already sold out, but we are doing a
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: second show on the Wolf of Wall Street because we're like,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: we got to double up on Margot Robbie movies.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Which is such a confusing thing to pair with Barbie
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: that it is not yet sold out and you could
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: still get tickets to it.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we were like, should we do Oppenheimer And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: then we were unanimously like, no, we should not, thank you,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: so we're doing Wolf of Wall Street instead. There are
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: still tickets available to that show in Sacramento on February second.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: On February third, we will be in Dallas covering Barbie.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Still tickets to that show available. On February fifth, we
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: will be in Austin, and then we're scooting back to
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: California to do a show in San Diego on February tenth,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and all of those shows are also us covering Barbie,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna have a blast. We have so much
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: fun during the live shows. We do extra things. We
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: do slide shows, we do games, we wear fun outfits.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: There's lots of goofs. We usually eat on stage, you know,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: There's always a meet and greed afterwards. There's tour exclusive birch.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: It's a blast and actually I feel like to transition
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: back to the main episode that today we'll have a
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: similar vibe because they tend to be kind of chaotic
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: and fun. We like to cover fun movies live and
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: we also love to cover fun but also socially impactful
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: movies to start the But if you would like to
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: get tickets to that that tour, which you should, Yes,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: you can go to the link in the bio or
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: go to link tree our link tree which is l
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I n K t R dot ee slash Bechdel Cast
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: pain in the ass. Well worth it and we'll see
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: you at the show.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But now back to Shrek.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Back to the Shrektel cast. Yeah, okay, so this is
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. I feel like, because our show has been
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: around for so long, we're reaching the end of a
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: lot of franchises we've been covering for for many years.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, we fortunately they made a season two of
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: the Santa claus Is for us to cover with Grace
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: this year. But you know, for a while, it seemed
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: like we were we were gonna be out right, and
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: we have. We still have the Puss and Booth spin offs.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: But this is the final canonical Shrek movie we have
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: not covered on the show. We're covering Shrek now forever after.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Should we tell people what the Buckdel cast test is?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Well, we already discussed the Shrektel test, and I think
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: that covers it now. Yeah, the show is named after
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: the Bechdel Test, although we only ever use it as
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate larger conversations about representation
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: and intersectionality.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: And the truth.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And it is a media metric created by Allison Bechdel
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: along with her pal Liz Wallace, and so it's often
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It was a test that
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: first appeared in Allison Bechdel's Duck to Watch Out For
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: in the eighties, examining how women rarely speak to each
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: other in movies, and specifically queer women in the representation
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: of them in mainstream cinema. So that was what the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: test was originally. There are many versions of it. Ours
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names?
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: about something other than a man? And we especially like
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: it if the conversation has some kind of like narrative
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: oomph to.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: It, a little hoof, a little oof, a little fun.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So yes, that is the Bechdel Test. Not to
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: be confused with the Shrektel test, which.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: We already we don't even need to talk about it
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: again because we already know that this movie heartily passes heavily.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: But yeah, today we are talking about Shrek Forever after
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Shrek four. Many call it Shrek Forever after it was
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: released in twenty ten, which I know because I went
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: on a date to see this movie in high school.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much. It made three quarters of a
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: billion dollars, which is a really shocking statistic for a
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: movie that is both eighty minutes long and horrible, not
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: very good. I would say this is the weakest installed.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: It's the weakest installment for me by a country mile.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Really, It's just I find Shrek the Third to be
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a lot less.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Enjoyable Shrek the Third. I mean, I guess that this
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: one is mercifully shorter.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: It's not even they're both like eighty one minutes long.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, Okay, I mean I guess I the third
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: one is with Arty right ARTI pendrive.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake, isn't it?
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: For some reason, the justin Timberlake one is pretty bad.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I still feel like Shrek four takes it for me, uh,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: just because of the internal messaging. I feel like, you know,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: in Shrek one, and we've talked about this show, how
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Shrek changed everything. And I'm just quoting James Gun when
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I say that, Yeah, yeah, of course Shrek changed everything.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And I think that that is unfortunately, whether you like
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: it or not, that is true. Yeah, Shrek changed children's
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: entertainment for a long time, forever after, even forever after.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: It ain't ogre till it's ogre to quote the poster
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: of this movie.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: But the tagline of the movie.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Yes, because this was marketed as the final chapter. Oh,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: that's which I mean in terms of canonical Shrek movies,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: it's the you know, it's been fourteen years now, it's
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: been fourteen years and I can still smell the fresh farts. Wow.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: We have options, But in any case, I feel like
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: this franchise starts with like Fiona, who, as we've talked
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: about over the years, is she a you know, perfect
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: feminist character. No, but I feel like she is like disenfranchised.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Does the movies go on like Shrek One Fiona is
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: the best Fiona, and then we just see her like
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: wifified and in Shrek Forever After, which we'll talk about,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: we see an alternate reality Fiona where she is more empowered. Yes,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: but also there's all I don't know I think that
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: this the Shrek Forever After kind of fucked with my
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: head because we just covered because we're recording this in
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: late December, we just did our live show about It's
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: a Wonderful Life, and I'm just bowled over with how
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: many feature films there are about how the world would
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: be a shithole if one man didn't exist. I just
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: don't buy it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're on the same wavelength as per usual. Because
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I finished this movie, I was like, Wow, that was
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: just the exact same plot as It's a Wonderful Life. However,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: which movie do I like more? I think that Shrek
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Forever After is a better movie than It's a Wonderful Life.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And I know that is probably one of the most
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: controversial statements ever made, But I have a master's degree
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: in film and screenwriting, which I would never mention, but
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: it does give me the credibility to say that, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: you have to believe me, and you have to agree
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: with me because of my credentials.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I respect your a pion, Yeah, thank you so much,
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: our respect your opinion. This movie stinks. This movie is stinky,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: stinky poop poop. But but who's going to argue with
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: a quarter billion or three quarters of a billion dollars.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: I have one last thing to say before we talk
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: about this. For over an hour, I was thinking about
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: the year twenty ten, right, Obama's first term. Yeah, remember
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: that in any case, Shrek as a popular You know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: this is a decade that Shrek owns true, right, Yes,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: but things in movies are shifting. Shrek Forever After did
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: it make seven hundred and fifty six million dollars. It
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: sure did, But that is less money than Shrek the
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Third Maid and even less money than Shrek two made.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Wo So Shrek's on the downturn.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: And also four movies in a decade, that's a lot.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: That's a lot. That's you know, we've maybe reached peak
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Shrek saturation. We've also I've got Kung Fu Panda, right,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: We've got other DreamWorks that comes out in two thousand
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: and eight, kind of coming for Shrek's Crown, that comes
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: up between Shrek the Third and Shrek Forever After. But
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: most pertinently, and I feel like you know where I'm
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: going with this. Oh, I already know a very important
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: movie comes out in twenty ten, and I would say
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: derails Shrek's chances at being a powerful franchise for over
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: a decade. Okay, maybe even a more dominant species. I mean,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: do you know what movie I'm talking about?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Obviously you're talking about Despicable Me starring the Minions.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, I had to check because I also went on
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: a date in high school to see Despicable of Me.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Of course, because when I was in high school I
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: was ten.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if you remember this, but I
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: went back and re listened to our Shrek the Third
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: episode in which you very publicly and openly say that
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you got fingered during the screen of Shrek the Third
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: in the theater.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: I wasn't going to bring that up today because New
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Year knew me. But you're right, I have to No, no, no,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: don't edit it out. I need to own my past.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: You're right, and you would be right to say it.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Wow. I really don't know how to look out for
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: myself whatsoever. Okay, So running the numbers, Running the numbers,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: because a little film called Despicable Me comes out in
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: twenty ten. Let's see how close they came out together. Okay,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Despicable Me starring of course grew in Le Mignon's that
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: comes out June ninth. Shrek Forever After, I think would
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: come out a little earlier. Yes, April May, in wide
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: release May twenty first.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: That's my sister's birthday.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Wow, she must have been so thrilled this year.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, she was.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: So they come out within a month of each other.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Now I'm looking at domestic gross because Shrek Forever After
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: it's got global clout, right, so it takes despicable me
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: over in worldwide gross, but domestic grows. Something fascinating happens.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Despicable me edges. Shrek for Americans are done with this guy.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: American said, no, we won't give him any more than
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty eight million dollars, seven hundred and
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: thirty six, seven hundred eighty seven dollars. Okay, But these
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: new guys, the Minions, they're like, wait, big Green guy,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: more like little little Yellow guy, because they give the
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: minions two hundred and fifty one million, five hundred and
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: thirteen thousand, nine hundred and eighty five dollars just a
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: smidge more.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Uh huh.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And I just think that's it. There's sort of like
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: a changing of the because Shrek changed everything. But also
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: you gotta hang up that leather vest at some point.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Pals It's true. Well, and now we are in minion era.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: We are in the minion era Shrek era over except
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I know if you google is Shrek five happening? I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: know the answer is Shrek five is slated to come
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: out in twenty twenty five, So we are actually not
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: done with Shrek.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: And I'm I'm thrilled and I think I honestly, as
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: I was watching this movie, I was telling my boyfriend
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: was like, I really think if Shrek came back after
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: fifteen years and he's been on a fascinating I mean,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: and I'm not going to get into my history of
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the Shrek culture. I know I've done on the show before,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: but he'd been on this fascinating journey where he's like
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: kind of a big joke but also so beloved that
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like Shrek would be Shrek five would make
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: a billion dollars if it was good. If it was good,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: it would make a billion dollars if it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Was like Shrek two quality.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Exactly, or even I mean, I think we can even
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: dream bigger the last Oh yeah, and also I wanted
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: to say, the next highest grossing movie after Despicable Me
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: was inception. I just thought that was funn.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, I think.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And also the minions have been you know, dominant for
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: you know, over ten years, going on fifteen years now,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: so it's it's time for a challenger to enter the ring.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Certainly not gonna be Secret Life of motherfucking Pets, I'll
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: tell you that much boo toy story for dogs. Try harder.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, anyway, okay, so you what's your history for
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Shrek four. I had never seen it before. This was
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: the only Shrek installment that I well, not including I
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: haven't seen the first Puss and Boots movie. I famously
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: love Puss and Boots the Last Wish, which came out
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: in late twenty twenty two.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I finally saw it a couple of weeks ago. It's great.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Do you think, isn't it so good? It's really good,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and it's beautiful. It's so well animated. Yeah, Visually it's amazing,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Narratively it's amazing. Thematically, it's amazing. I love that movie. Anyway,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I had never seen Shrek four because yeah, by the
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: time time twenty ten rolled around, I think I did
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: have Shrek fatigue, and yeah, I just wasn't we were
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: suffering enthusiastic about it anymore. So I didn't see it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's my short history with Shrek Forever after.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: But you saw it in theaters?
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, I did, and I have nothing else to say.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Cool cool, cool, All right, Well, Shelby dive deeper into
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: it and do the recap.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Oh I guess I should say I also did not
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: like this movie when it came out. In my opinion
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: has not been unfortunately, you know, time has not healed
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: that wound for me. I still don't like it.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I see for me. The ranking goes as follows Shrek
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: two number one, Shrek one number two, Shruk four number three,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and then Shrek three number four. Wow, amazing, I'm going
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: to and.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Thret four, three and four are both so storid. Yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: they might be tied for last because I kind of
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: forgot about the whole the justin Timberlake of it all
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: that was really challenging. But I also hate, like, I
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: just feel like rumpel Stiltskin should just be far Quad again.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Why are we? Why are we doing rumpel Stiltskin. Can't
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: we just like give far Quad a magic wand like
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's the same.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Character Yeah, I'm just fatigued. It's annoying. Should I say
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: what the movie is about?
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break first, and then we'll come
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: back for the recap. We're back, all right? Here is
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: this Shrek Forever?
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: After buckle In.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: The movie opens on the standard Shrek storybook opening, explaining
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: that Fiona's parents, the King and Queen, had locked Fiona
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: in a tower guarded by a dress, but as time
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: wore on and her curse still hadn't been broken, they
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: had to resort to desperate measures. So we cut to
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: the King and Queen approaching rumpel stilt Skin, voiced by
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: what's his name again, Walt Dorn.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: I feel so bad, but I'm like, who is this bad? It?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess, I guess it's kind of a
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: double standard because you're like, oh, who voices the minions?
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Pierre Colfet, That's who. But he also is like some
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: random guy in animation. But he's not some random guy
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: and animation anymore. I mean, fortunately, Walt Dorn still some
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: random guy and animation where Pierre Coffin has transcended and
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: is the voice of every minion.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Wow. Amazing.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Anyways, random guy don't know, Okay.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: So they approach rumpel Stiltskin to see if he can
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: put an end to Fiona's curse that turns her into
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: an ogre at night, and rumpel Stiltskin's like, yeah, I'll
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: do it, and in exchange, you have to sign away
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the kingdom far far away.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: These damn parents are just terrific. Maybe it's maybe it's
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: like commentary or something, but they just, like in each
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: and every movie, they mismanage and gamble their people's lives
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: away because they're embarrassed of their daughter's physical appearance.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: It's so bad, yep, okay. So they are about to
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: sign away their kingdom in exchange for like Fiona's curse
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: to be lifted, but just then someone comes in to
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: be like Princess Fiona has been saved parentheses by Shrek,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and this makes Rumpelstiltskin furious because he wants control over
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: far far away. We then cut to Shrek in his swamp.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: He and Fiona are raising their three ogre babies.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: As promised at the end of Shrek the Third. Can
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I just say and let me know if this is
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: at a pocket? I hate looking at those damn Ogre babies.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: They look like shit. They're so oh I hate they
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: make me sick to look they look like adults.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: It's upsetting. I don't like them either.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: The least you can do when you're making animated anything
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: is ensure that you can make a baby version of
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: your character. That's cute. That's the Muppet baby law. Like,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: it's not that hard. I don't think that it would
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: have been impossible to make a cute Shrek baby or
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: a cute The fact that the Donkey dragon babies also
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: look like shit scary. That's a slam dunk. That's so cute.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: But they fuck it up, they fake time it up.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know what.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know what they're doing, but I know what
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: they aren't doing.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Uh. We see Shrek and Fiona. Of course Donkey and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Puss and Boots are also there. But the monotony and
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: repetitiveness of life is really getting to Shrek. Also, people
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: aren't scared of Ogres the way they used to be.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: They're not scared of Shrek anymore, which is abundantly clear
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: when they go too far far away for Shrek and
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Fiona's kids birthday party.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: There's a lot to be said about this whole, like
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Shrek is fatigued of being a parent, while we're led
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: to believe Fiona it just comes naturally to her. We'll
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: talk about that. Yeah, but can I just say the
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: little kid who says dude, they roar, uh huh. I
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: was laughing.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: See, I hated him.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Every time he said it, I was laughing.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I hate Wow.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: That was the one laugh this movie got out of me.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And then when Shrek roars he says, I love you daddy,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I was laughing.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I think this movie got zero laughs out of me.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Every joke Wow falls flat on its face.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: It's ivan. The movie sucks ass, but I liked with
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: the kids. I love your daddy, yuck. Fair enough, fair enough.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I only have an undergrad so yeah, it's just I
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: have simple taste.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: It's okay, It's okay. So anyway, the party goes horribly
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: wrong and no one is taking Shrek seriously, and he's like, ugh,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I wish things would just go back to the way
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: they were when I could do everything I wanted, whenever
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I wanted. And Fiona is like, okay, ungrateful much.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you ungrateful piece of shit? You have every like
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: and then she like lists out everything that's going well
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: with his life. I'm like, damn, I'm jealous of Shrek.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: He really does have it all.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: He's he's got a lot that you would think he
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: would be grateful for, but he's not. And so they
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: both storm off in different directions. And then who does
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Shrek bump into? Who had overheard this whole conversation. It's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Rumpel still skined, and he's like and.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: His big old goose. Which did you grow up with
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: the story of rumpel Stiltskin. I don't know what the
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: fuck his whole deal is.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I do, yes, I did grow up with that story.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I don't remember him having a goose, but I do
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: know this story, all.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Right, I'll take it to Google. Does Rumpel stelt skin?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I guess he was a character on Once upon a Time.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: This is the point where someone in our is like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: someone hits our Apple podcast reviews are like, Jamie didn't
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: do enough research to even know if rumpel Stiltskin has
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: canonically has a goose. I'm not seeing goose. I'm not
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: seeing goose. I am seeing a page for Fifi the
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Goose on Wiki Shrek.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it seems like it's only canon to Shrek.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Lore, a Shrek innovation. Yeah wow.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Also, we did this last time too for Shrek the Third,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: but we still haven't said the word Shrekian yet.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I mean give it time.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it'll come up organically, right, It's okay.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So Rumpelstiltskin is like, hey, Shrek, I will make a
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: deal with you that will let you be the ogre
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that you used to be, you know, like feared. You
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: can do that for a day in exchange for just
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: any other day in your life. So Shrek would just
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: have to like give up a day from his past,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: and it could be like a day when he was
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: a baby that he wouldn't even remember. So he's like,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: sounds like a great deal to me. So Shrek signs
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: this contract with Rumpelstiltskin, and as soon as he does,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: he is transported to this reality where sure enough everyone
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: fears him, and Shrek is loving it at first, but
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: then he goes to his swamp, but it's all dried
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: up and abandoned, and he's like, what's going on? What's
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: happening here? Then he is attacked and captured by a
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: group of witches and the next Shrek knows he's in
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a carriage that's being pulled by Donkey, but Donkey does
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: not recognize him. And this is where you start to
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: realize that this movie and It's a Wonderful Life have
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: basically the same plot.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: YEP, because it's like, why is this movie coming out
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: in May? I honestly feel like if this movie was
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: just like more transparent about what it's obviously doing, I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: just released it as like cause there were Shrek Christmas specials, Yeah,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'd be less annoyed with it if
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: they just were like, this is like, it's a wonderful Shrek.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: You're like, sure, fine, I don't know why I would
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: be less I like, but it's trying to like pass
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: itself off as I don't know, I just like just
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: say it's a wonderful Shrek or.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: It's a Shrekian life. It's true, and there you go.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: It's a shreky in text, it is everything about.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: That anyway, Shrek is in this alternate reality where he
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: never met Donkey, where far far Away is in shambles,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and they.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Also imply that if Shrek didn't break this stigma against Ogres,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: that the Ogres would be extremely oppressed. Like without Shrek,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: the ogres are like a severe underclass in society to
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the point where they have to revolt. I'm just like,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I just don't give Shrek that much credit, no right,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's fine, you know, like you
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: but it's like he's one guy, you know, he's one
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: unremarkable guy. That's kind of his whole thing. Yeah, what right? Anyways,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Anyway, all these things are different and we'll come to
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: find out more soon. But the witches who are rumbel
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Stiltskin's minions, okay.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, they're trying trying to be but it's too late.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: It's too late.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: So they take Shrek to Rumbelstiltskin's palace and he is
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: delighted to see Shrek because he's the one who made
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: this all possible. Because the day that Rumpelstiltskin took from
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Shrek was the day that he was born, which means
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Shrek never even existed, which means he never rescued or
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: even met Fiona. It means that when this day comes
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: to an end, Shrek will cease to exist.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: And he'll like explode into light. Which seemed so dramatic.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: My stakes are high.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I and this is you know, spoiler alert for
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: this eighty minute movie. This episode will be longer than
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: the movie. But I think that it was quite bold
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: in a living in twenty twenty four. Now, let's say,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: in a world where all children's movies are too cowardly
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to murder their protagonist in the fourth installment, I think
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: it's shocked. I think it is rather shocking that we
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: do see Shrek fully die. I mean only for like
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: two minutes, but you're still damn they killed Shrek. I
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: killed his ass, they got his ass. Loved that.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, Shrek never existing also means that Rumpel's
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Stiltskin was able to seize control of Far Far Away,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: which is why he wanted this whole thing to happen,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: which is why he made this deal with Shrek, etc.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So Rumpel Stiltskin finally has what he wants, so Shrek
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: grabs Donkey and they escape from the palace. Shrek gets
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Donkey to trust him, and then Donkey tells him about
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the secret exit clause to the contract that Shrek had signed,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: and the way to render this contract null and void
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: is for Shrek to have true Love's kiss and then
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: we're like, okay, wait a minute, exit clause Santa Claus three,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: the escape clause.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: This is a Christmas movie. I kept writing that down
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: like another Christmas thing. There's a Santa Claus in the
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Just why did this movie come out in May?
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Not sure?
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So Shrek is like, okay, I have to go
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: find Truelove's kiss with Fiona. He realizes that if he
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: never rescued her from the dragon guarded tower, she must
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: still be there. But when he goes to the tower,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: she's not there. So he's like, okay, well, if I
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: didn't save her, then who did?
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Because he cannot conceive of a world in which Fiona
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: could escape the tower on her own.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Well, neither could the first Shrek movie, So I know
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: he's a flaw. He's okay. So Shrek and Donkey continue
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: their search for Fiona, and they stumble upon an Ogre community.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: There this resistance group who is fire against Rumpelstiltskin and
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: his oppressive regime, and their leader is Fiona.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Ooh, and it's a great reveal shot. It is, yes
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: and really brings out I'm certain we've talked about this
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: in past episodes. Really brings out how weak Cameron Diaz's
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: voice acting is, because we get this amazing reveal of
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Fiona and then Cameron Dia like, I love Camera Diaz,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: but like she's not a very strong voice actor and
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: doesn't improve of her time, and so you get like
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: this incredibly animated like Fiona's hair is whipping around, she's
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: wearing this warrior off it, and then she's like, okay, guys,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: let's okay, everyone, time to go into battle. And you're like, yea, yay.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I've always thought that Cameron Diaz was not well cast.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: It's as roll right, which is challenging because it's like,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I don't it's in that way inadvertently because of how
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: these movies are structured. You were coming down on basically
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: the only woman who's meaningfully in the movie. But uh,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: but also we've been shielding her for years. I just
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: have to say, how I feel that's fair. Okay, guys,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: let's go into battle. You're like, oh my god, oh
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: my god.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so we get this revealed that Fiona is the
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: leader of this revolution, and of course she does not
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: know Shrek because they have never met in this alternate reality.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So Shrek tries to woo Fiona, but she's too busy
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: planning an attack on rumpel Stiltskin and his witches that night. Also,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: we learn that Puss and Boots is her pet cat,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: although he's not the you know, fierce assassin we know
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: him to be anymore. He's a quote unquote lazy house cat.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And we'll talk more about the implications and choices that
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: were made with this character. Anyway, So Shrek is trying
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: to win Fiona over, and so he goes to her
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: and they start this kind of like play fighting thing
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: and they're vibing, but still no kiss. Meanwhile, Rumpelstiltskin wants
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: to find Shrek to prevent him from kissing Fiona because
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want this contract to be nullified because it
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: would mean the end of his empire. So he hires
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: a bounty hunter to find Shrek, who turns out to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: be the Pied Piper. And this is when I was like, Okay,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: why would you interro just have Puss in Boots, Yeah,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: be the assassin that gets hired, bring that thing back
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: in that makes more sense, And then it's baffling. Yeah,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it would be maybe too similar to the plot of
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Shrek too. But that's a callback that would make sense
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: where then Shrek would have to like, you know, do
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: something similar to like get Pussing Boots on his side
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and just like why why why is Pied Piper here?
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Like worst I did fill in minion I've ever seen.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: I didn't, especially in a year where we're being introduced
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: to the minions and Shrek's bringing who to the tape
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: like no wonder, no wonder you were dethroned king, No,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: but I agree with you. I hadn't thought of it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: That's that's a really smart fix for that too, And
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: a far more logical use of puss in Boots character
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: because he really is like he's used as a fat
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: shaming site gag basically, and then he kind of like
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: doesn't do anything the whole movie. He uterly does nothing
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: to the point where it's like egregious and at one
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: point I left because they're just trying to justify his presence,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: so which is like, also, if you're paying Antonio banderis,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: please use him like it's wired either way. But there's
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: like at one point where Shrek and Fiona spoiler like
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: they have to fall bug in love, and there's a
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: point where they're like they're vibing, and then it just
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: cuts to Puss and Boots and he's like wow, You're like,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: why is he here? He's just like wow.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Sense anyway, So the assassin for some reason or the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: bounty hunter is the Pied Piper, and then when the
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Ogres launched their attack against rumpel Stiltskin, it's actually a
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: trap laid by the Pied Piper, and then he plays
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: his flute and it like forces them to dance, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: that's how he bounty hunts them question marks. Exhausting, but
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Shrek and Fiona manage to get away m hmm. So
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: they're like on the run. And also he's trying to
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: prove to her that he is her true love and
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: that he knows a bunch of stuff about her.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Including well and he's also like, what if I forcibly
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: kissed you with that convinced you huh?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: He does that many many times. It's disgusting. But he's like, look,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I know all this stuff about you, including your curse
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: where you're human during the day, and he's like, so
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: kiss me, and she does basically just to I think,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: get him to shut up and leave her alone. Yeah,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: but the kiss doesn't change anything because.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Because why would it. She's a revolution. Yeah, I just
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: hate that, Like, I mean it's complicated to the extent
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: that you know, like without Shrek's presence in this world, right,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Like the Shreks are oppressed. That's bad. However, it's also
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: presented that it's equally bad that Fiona is the leader
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: of a revolution, which is not bad. That's like a
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: fun like it's it's so weird how Fiona is characterized
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: over the years, where it's like she it just feels
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: like antiquated, even for the two thousands to be like, well,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: she would be much happier if she was just the
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: mother of newborn triplets than if she were the you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: like warrior goddess of the Shreks, right, I don't I
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: feel like we can split the difference there a little
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: or not, you know.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Like it's just it's the same kind of like empty
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: feminism that we've seen throughout the entire franchise, where like
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: there will be moments where like Fiona gets one little
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: scene where she does something that vaguely seems empowering, but
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: when you actually look at it closely, it's a very
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: hollow gesture or it has weird implications. The same thing's
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: happening here.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: The same thing's happening, and she.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: At this time does not love Shrek, so when she
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: kisses him, it doesn't break the contract with ruppel Stiltskin.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: And I thought, I because I of course I didn't
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: remember what happened in this movie, fully because I was
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: busy doing what pegot. But like I sort of was like,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: far be it for me to think this Shrek. I
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: feel like this happens in every Shrek movie, where it's
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: like they have an opportunity to do something cool and
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: interesting and then they're like, nah, we're not gonna, We're
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: not gonna. You're like, okay, sorry, never mind.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah they don't. Sorry for having any expectations.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Go God, sorry for thinking that the franchise could grow.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Ugh yeah right anyway, So rumpel Stiltskin, desperate to stop Shrek,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: and Fiona puts out a call basically saying that whoever
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: brings them in rumpel Stiltskin will grant them any wish
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: they desire. So Shrek realizes he can use this to
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: his advantage, and he turns himself in in exchange for
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: freeing all of the ogres that the Pied Piper had captured,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: except rumpel Stiltskin refuses to release Fiona since she's only
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: half ogre. So now she and Shrek are captured together
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and Rumpelstiltskin unleashes dragon on them, but they work together
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: to best the dragon and defeat Rumpel still skin, but.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Then Shrek dies so abrupt too.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, because it's dawn, which means Shrek's time is up,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: and he starts to fade away, which I.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Kind of forgot was gonna happen.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and she kisses him, but he disappears, but
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: just kidding. The kiss worked, and this alternate reality vanishes.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: We're transported back to Shrek's children's birthday party and Shrek
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: is like, wow, Fiona, I love you, babe. I always
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: thought it was me who rescued you from the dragons Keep,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: but really it was you who rescued me the enda
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: and you're just like and then a smash Mouth cover starts.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Weezer, that's Weezer. It's Weezer covering smash Mouth covering the monkeys.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: And at this point we're like, we got to retire
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Shrek for fifteen years. He's got go in the vault.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I think that they did talk about inception a song
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: within a song within a song.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Wa wha, all right, let's take a break, will help
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: her be right back? All right, and we're back.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: As with all things Shrekian, uh, this movie did suck,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: But I do think that there is a fair amount
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: to talk about, especially in regards to I just like
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: if in Shrek five we could like get an arc
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: for Fiona, that's like we're saying on par with Shrek
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: two and let's say better because we have the benefit
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: of fifteen years, right, But Shrek four sucks for fiot.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: It's so weird because it and speaking to the empty feminism,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: which I feel like is yeah, it's very very prevalent
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: and again like best done in the earlier installments, not
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: the later ones, which is depressing. But like the message
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: of this movie for women is bad as you, but
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: we see a lot of cool stuff, which is weird.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: I feel like that there is like a sort of
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: game of forty chess being played because you get to
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: see Fiona in a position of power where she's respected
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: and hyper competent, and like, I think the sequences where
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: she's fighting and like leading is really cool. There is
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: sort of I know that there's Jane Lynch's character is
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: a woman coded Shrek, but outside of that, it appears
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: that it's kind of a Smurfette situation like most of
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: the Shrek's overwhelmingly male, which is Minyon coded. I will say, true,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: but obviously not as effective if John Hamm is actually
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: in Minion's one, so he's kind of double dipping when
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: you think about it. And also, wait is he Yeah,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: he plays Sandra Bulls groovy husband in Minions and he's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: Minions one, not Despicable Me one, not Despicable Me. We're
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: talking this spinoff franchise, I see the real moneymaker.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen Minions one all the way through.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, we should watch it on Christmas?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, we should cover it on the podcast.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: I would love to. I mean, I've seen it so
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: many times, and not to mention Rise of Group, like,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I saw that one in the theaters and.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: It's so cute. I love it. Yeah. Twenty tway four,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: it's a Minions year, thank god. Twenty twenty three were
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: we were panting, starving, like what was gonna happen to us?
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Thankfully we're back. But but yeah, I mean, and good
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: for John hann for sensing which way the wind was blowing.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: But in any case, I don't know, like Fiona is
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: in a position of huge power. We find out that
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: she has liberated herself from the tower, which I think
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: is cool and like, because this is all established, I
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: almost wished at the end of Shrek four, instead of
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Shrek being pulled back to his normal reality where we've
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: seen Fiona for two movies, now be pushed into these
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: traditional roles, which, as we say, oh it like, we're
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: not saying that these are bad roles to be in
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: to want to be married or to be a parent,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: but they are stereotypical roles that are you know whatever,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: you know what we're talking about. That's all we see
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Fiona do in these movies anymore. And I was really
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: hoping that they went to some like third location where
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: there could be some like I think that would have
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: been cool, where they like went to an alternate reality
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: where Fiona could have access to both of these, where
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: she could be a warrior, because she's always been a
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: really like fighty character since the first movie. She's been
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: a good fighter and like a world where she could
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: you know, have both of these. I feel like that
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be out of the question in this world. But
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: instead Shrek is just sent back to the world where
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: we've seen Fiona turned into a very like unchallenging wife
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: and mother character, and Shrek is just like, Wow, I'm
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: so grateful that you're like this, and you're like.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Ugh, right, no, yeah, no. This movie can't imagine a
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: world and suggests that like, if you are, you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: a warrior and the leader of a revolution, you would
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: not also be a parent like that. It's like you're
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: one or the other. And if you are a parent,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: then you have to live this like hyper domesticated life
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: and that goes for Fiona and Shrek, and that's why
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: he tries to like escape. So, like I said, I
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: went back and listened to our Shrek the third episode
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: and a big criticism, thank you. A big criticism we
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: had about that movie was that it reinforces a gendered
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: trope of like men and being very reluctant to become
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: parents and women being hyper enthusiastic about becoming a parent.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: In this movie, we're already kind of touched on this,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: but it does something similar in the sense that we
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: see Shrek growing increasingly bored, frustrated, disillusioned with domestic life
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, taking care of his three babies.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: He's tired of the monotony of it. But we do
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: not see Fiona feeling this way, which reinforces a similar
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: gendered trope of like, oh, well, women don't mind doing
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: the same domestic tasks over and over. Women don't mind
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: the monotony that might accompany that. Right, She's happily doing it,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: and she's never getting frustrated or bored because women just
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: inherently love that kind of work. But men, well, of
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: course they're going to get bored and yearn for something
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: more exciting. They're going to yearn for their days when
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: they were a bachelor and they weren't, you know, like
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: weighed down by this ball and chain. And of course
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: their masculinity will feel threatened now that they have to
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: stay at home and do domestic tasks and take care
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: of a family.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Which is like exacerbated by the fact that the movie
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't even bother to like add the trophy layer to
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: make it seem like Shrek has a job, like he
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: does it, he does it. They're both stay at home parents,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: but like and and also it's like I think that
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: these are easy as I know that we've talked about
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: this in others Trek installments. There's easy small effixes that
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: allow Fiona to participate more fully in the plot. If
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: they're both burned out as new parents, that totally changes
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: the dynamic of that because you're like, yeah, parents of
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: newborn triplets that are being like surveilled by the far
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: far away paparazzi or whatever. That would be exhausting for
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: both of them, But she is shielded by mother powers
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: that like don't just add on these tropes but like
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: fundamentally exclude her from the plot. Like there's maybe I
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: mean it was still suck because it's like Shrek four,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: but like there's a version of this where they could
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: go through this journey together and see the alternate version
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: of reality of like what if both of them didn't
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: exist and if Fiona doesn't exist. Honestly, I'm more inclined
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: to believe that Ogres would be more oppressed versus Shrek
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: because she is an Ogre who is a princess. Like
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: that actually makes like, yeah, talking it out now, that
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: makes a lot more sense that like Fiona has far
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: more to do with like the you know, ogres are
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: scary stigma being removed from that community than Shrek does
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: because she came out as an ogre and everyone still
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: loved her.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, hello, end of Shrek one, it.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Was like an earth shattering moment.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: It changed the world. Yeah, right, there's that. So there's
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: a bunch of different things going on with Shrek one.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: He's frustrated with the monotony of domestic life. He's also ungrateful,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: you know, despite having, as Fiona points out, three beautiful children,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: a wife, a wife who loves him, friends who adore him.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: He's just acting very ungrateful and unappreciative of it. And
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: then on top of that, he doesn't like that people
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: are no longer afraid of him, and he wants to
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: go back to the good old days where people were
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: afraid of ogres, when the world made sense. And I'm like, okay,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: maga vibe yikes.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Maga, maga before maga. Yeah, I mean it's super weird,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know, in the Shrek world. I'll let
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: that slide where it's like, Okay, he misses what he
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: was a scary oak, but I feel like that's just telegraphic,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: like I miss my bachelor days like you were saying earlier.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: But it's also like let Fiona in on that, that's
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Yeah, he doesn't bother to openly communicate
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: any of these frustrations or these feelings with Fiona. He
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: doesn't say anything like, Hey, I've been overwhelmed, I've been frustrated.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: Here are my needs that aren't being met? Like can
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: we work on this together to like try to figure
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: out a solution. And also, hey, Fiona, how are you feeling?
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: Is any of this getting to you? Like they don't
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: have any conversation like that, and Shrek is like famously
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: bad at being inter relent, but it's like, why can't
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: we just let his character grow a little because it
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: gets exhausting and you would I mean, it's been nine
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: years Shrek and again to come to Fiona's defense here,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: like it makes far more sense for her to be
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: like shaken by this shift because she has you know,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: I forget how much time is canonically passed and Shrek won,
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: but like she has gone through far more big changes
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: in her life in the last several Shrek years than Shrek.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: She was still she's still got tower PTSD. She and
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: then she's like coming out as an ogre, which is
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: a huge deal in this world, right, the whole Shrek
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: two of it all. Like she is married now, she's
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: living in a swamp. She's had three kids. Like there
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: it again, her life has changed more and unfortunate not
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: to be like I feel like I'm starting to sound
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: like a royalist, but like her just because of who
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: she is. Unfortunately, she's like Prince she I'll say it.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: She's the Princess Da far far away. She's the people's princess.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: And I feel like it's disrespectful for Shrek Prince Charles
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: over here, not exactly, not exact and exact one to one,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: but he's a flop. He's not the most interesting character.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: It's like disrespectful to even have Fiona voice by Cameron Diaz.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, but it's too late. It's twenty three years
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: too late to fix that. So let's just give her something.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Let's give her something and the kids look like shit.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Come on, I didn't we know that these animators can
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: make something look cute because uh put some boots with
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: his big eyes.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, it felt very yeah,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: like it something fat. I mean, I guess you can't
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: like overestimate the amount of cynicism that goes into a
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: franchise like this, except for Dispicable to me, which is
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: you know, pure. They would never do anything for me
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: merchandising purvises, holding my vampire minion who watches me while
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: I create content.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, but but seriously, you guys, no, I feel like
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: they they It's almost like advantageous for them to have
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: these shots and sequences of Fiona as a warrior because
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: of it, and then they can put it in the
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: trailer and be like, oh, se Fiona.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: But then the status quo is always re established, as
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: it is with in a time and time again. And
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: then also, I mean all those yucky things that we
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: touched on during the recap where Shrek is so convinced
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: that like all he has to do is give her
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: a kiss, he doesn't have to grow as a person,
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: which he I would say, arguably doesn't in this movie
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: really at all. Right, Okay, well, I guess he learns
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: to be grateful for his wife, but like does he
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: See, That's what I was trying to figure out. So
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: instead of him, you know, trying to have an open
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and honest conversation about his feelings with Fiona. Instead, he
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: storms off and then makes a deal with the first
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: sleazy guy he finds, which ends up having these dire consequences.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: So the rest of the plot is him having to
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: like fix this situation, and the lesson he ends up
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: quote unquote learning is, oh, I didn't know what I
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: had until it was gone, and I should learn to
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: appreciate the love I share with my family and friends.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And sure that's a valid lesson to learn, but I'm
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: trying to, Like, I guess they just have mixed feelings
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: about stories like this where a man has to learn
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: emotional intelligence or a man you know, has to have
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: this emotional redemption arc because on one hand, I'm very
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: for men learning and growing emotionally, but sure women are
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: rarely given arcs like this in stories because women are
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: expected to already have this emotional intelligence because of a
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: you know, gendered expectation that women are nurturing and tuned
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: into their feelings and things like that, whereas men it's
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: just like, well, of course they're gonna start out being
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: you know, not very emotionally intelligent and they have to
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: learn these things, and they kind of barely learn them,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: and it takes this whole epic saga for them to
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: figure these things out. And then I'm right, does he
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: even learn it? Because at the end he doesn't apologize
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: to Fiona when he's like back at the party. He
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't like say, wow, I've been acting horribly. He just
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: says like, it was actually you who rescued me, which
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: is I feel like what people say to the like
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: the pets that they adopt.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was like you talk her to her
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: like she's a damn dog, like oh my god. Yeah.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, he doesn't apologize and say like, hey, sorry
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: for being an ungrateful little shit. He's just like you
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: rescued me.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: And I just feel like.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: It's very a very like oversimplified version.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: It's a freaking mess. It's a freaking mess. It's a disaster,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: it's a catastrophe. It stinks. It's gotta go, like.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Right, And then with Fiona like okay, yes, this is
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: an alternate reality where Shrek never saved her, so she
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: saved herself from the dragon guarded tower, which again is
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: like something that the movie Shrek won couldn't even conceive.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: Of and shocking.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Why don't we get a flashback of like her saving
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: herself showing how she did that. Maybe it informs why
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: she becomes such an effective leader of a revolution. You know,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: there's like again, it's just like this empty well of
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: course she's the leader. Now why well you don't have
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: to know about that. It just happened. It just glasses
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: over everything.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: It stinks. It stinks. Yeah, I mean I totally agree.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: Where it's like the things that this movie makes narrative
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: space for acting as if it only has eighty minutes
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: to exist or it'll die, Like it's yeah, and this,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: And I know we've talked about this before, but I
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: was reminded of it again in this installment of Shrek.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: That Fiona and Dragon, that is the dragon that guarded
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: her tower for over a decade. And why do these
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: two characters not have a relationship at all? Like it
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: could even be contentious, it would make sense, but it's
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: so weird, like because they introduce Dragon in the alternate
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: reality at the end, but it's only so that Donkey
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: and Dragon can fall in love again. But the way
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: that it's like these are the two characters of the
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: four of the two married couples, Fiona and Dragon have
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: known each other for the longest, but they have no relationship.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: They act like, oh, our husbands are friends, so I
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: guess we hang out. I'm like, this dragon was going
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: to kill you for ten years, like, how do you
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: have no feelings on? Like? And I think that that
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: could also it would. It feels very Shrekian there it is.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: It feels very Shrekian to put two characters that were
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: like at severe odds. They'd be like, oh, we get
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Martini is now we hang out blah blah blah, like
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: whatever it is established some sort of relationship like why,
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like the franchise thinks so
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: little of the two women. And also Dragon can't talk great.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: But the two women who you see most frequently, which
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: are Fiona and Dragon, they have the longest relationship and
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: they're like, eh, no one cares, well, not true, we care.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Also, why can't drag I mean basically every other dragon tall.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: We got Puss and Boots. He's talking. We got the
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: three little pigs, they're always talking. We got the wolf.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: The wolf is talking. We got a sentient gingerbread man
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: who gets eaten because of the thing we were hinting
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: at as far as like Puss and Boots, he's now
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: a fat character, and the movie takes every opportunity to
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: make very like fat shamy jokes, which is.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Very in step with what the franchise is always in,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: as well as the no homo like vampire oh ye
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: kissy joke at the like it's all just like bluff
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: and you already suggested a far better utility of that carriac.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Of Puss and Boots.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of pus, Pus, there's so many better uses of Puss.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Here's how you use puss.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: I have a master's degree, and I know how to
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: use Puss in this movie.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: And well, since you mentioned that like queer phobic vampire thing,
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: that's just like a fleeting moment in a quick scene
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: where the King and Queen are riding their carriage through
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: what seems to be coded as like a medieval trailer park,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: and all of the people there are made to seem
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: like weird and scary, and it's just like this a
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: very obviously like classist like, yeah, oh, if you live
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: in a trailer park, you're a freaking weirdo.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Which is weird because like this movie is all all
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: over the map with that too, because the Shreks are
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: presented as an underclass that are like staging a revolution
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: and are to be rooted for this Like this movie
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: can't even decide how they feel about Green, Like they
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: can't even decide what they feel about Green, because we
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: also have true the witches as the they work for
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: rumbel stilts Can. Again, I don't know, rumpel stilts Can
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Lore please come for me. I guess, Like, God, I'm
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: so tired, but like, I don't get I mean, And
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: we've talked extensively on other episodes about a lot of
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: the stereotyping that exists around witches. There's a lot of
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: heavy stereotyping around older women and also a lot of
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: antisemitic tropes that come up in the animation style, which
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: is which I think is not challenged in this movie whatsoever,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: for sure, And even outside of that, you're just like,
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: why do the witches work for rumpel stilt Skit Like
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: it's really, I don't know, it's a mess.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know it they just the Shrek writers and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: director aka Mess. Movie was written by Josh Klausner and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Darren Lemkey and directed by Mike Mitchell. Uh, they just
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: kind of do whatever the hell they want.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: It's so funny because it was like directed by Mike Mitchell.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, I loved I love Doe Boys
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: Boys.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Wow, Mitch, what a what a even even bigger multi
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: hyphen it that we imagine different Mike Mitchell. But in
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: my mind, Mitch directed Shrek Forever After. He also directed
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: all of the other Mike Mitchell movies. Can I rattle
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: them off?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: My buddy? Mitch also directed Sky High, Deuce, Bigelow, Mail, Chick,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: Alvin and the Chipmunks, chip Wrecked, whoa Trolls? Okay, He's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: killing it, Lego Movie two, and Kung Fu Panda four
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: or so. Yeah, if you're a fan of the Dope Boys,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: guess what, there's more where that came from and it's
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: four incredible.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. Do you have anything else that you want to
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: talk about? Because I've pretty much come to the end
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: of my notes.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: Let's see, let's see. Uh, well, I guess I just
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: wanted to get back to Rumpelstiltskin and I think, just
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: even from writing perspective, is a really really weak character,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: like a stinky character that felt like a retread of
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: far Quad. For I was like, could they not get
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: the original voice actor of far Quad back? Like, oh sorry,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: I put some respect on his name. I just thought,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: like a really weak villain. For the third and the fourth.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Also has nothing to do with the Rumpelstiltskin narrative, which
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: is all about like, I will give you whatever you
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: want if you're able to guess my name, and if not,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to steal all your babies away from you.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: That's the lore of Rumpelstiltskin. And then none of that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: appears except for like him making shady deals.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: I guess see the babies technically disappear. I guess it's
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: a no. I mean that's me giving it too much credit.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: That's a stretch.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I think it's weird that this movie
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: ultimately comes down and Fiona would be like clearly establishes
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: Fiona would be cooler if she hadn't met Shrek.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: True, I mean that is true, like.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Objectively and also taking it like again, just there's so
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: many more interesting ways for this movie to go because
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: if we know now in twenty ten, something that seemed obvious, right,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: but like that Fiona eventually would have escaped the tower
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: on her own. I think that that should send Shrek
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: into more of a crisis than it does. Like, yeah,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: I think it's interesting. I had this written down as well,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: where it's like, if I I, as Shrek.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Saw that Fiona would have h comma Shrek, unlike Ikmma
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: tana Ikamma Frankenstein.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Two of my favorite movies. If I Shrek found out
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: that Fionda would have escaped the tower on her own
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: and become a revolutionary leader if she had never met me,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: I would be like, hold on, maybe, like I would
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: have the kind of crisis where it's like, wow, maybe
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: I really don't matter, Like there's a whole like I mean,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: and I know that that's complicated by the fact that,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: for some reason, without Shrek, the Shreks are more marginalized
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: then they would. They seem to be like exploited for
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: like it seems like they're being used as slaves to
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: Ruympel still looking too, which is a disaster.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: He seems to specifically target and capture Shreks and enslave them.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I don't understand, but this is the first time we're
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: even ever learning about other Shreks in this world because
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Aside from Fiona, there are no other Ogres until the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: fourth movie, and then suddenly there's a whole community of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: which begs the question where have these other Shreks been.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: Which is actually a really scary image to see. Like
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: You're just like, oh, I feel like I'm having a nightmare.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: It's jarring.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just honestly, I don't think that this
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: franchise is equipped to deal with the topic of slavery.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: I will bravely say that, And I don't think that
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: they should have tried. I guess, like it's that plot
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: point made me very uncomfortable. And also to suggest that
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: without Shrek there would be many more Shreks, but they
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: would be enslaved. You're like, I'd hate this. I hate
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: every second of this, Like this is a really, really
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: brutal tangle to put into this story that they are
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: not able to write themselves out of. It's a disaster.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: That's bad. But then on the other hand, I did
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: like how the Shreks as a community were characterized, where
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: they were stage a revolution. They call Shrek a I
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: think John Aham Shrek calls regular a comrade in arms.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: You're like, that's kind of fun. They're like preparing to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: take down their oppressors. It's kind of like, woahoo, this
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: is cool. And you know, alternate reality, Fiona is very active.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: She is planning the revolution, right, Craig, I think it's
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: Craig Robinson, Shrek has a chimney choga stand. You're like, wow,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: epic random Bacon Humor twenty ten whatever. But but like
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: I I liked how like I just think again, it's
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: interesting to establish like this canon of there's a whole
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: Shrek community and they're essentially like revolutionaryas that are going
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: to topple the overclass.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: And that feed to be confused with the ogre class.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: The ogre class topples the overclass. Whoa and this alternate
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: university university sorry, this ALTI universe implies, in a way
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: that is also under explored, that Fiona has abandoned the
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: idea of monarchy like she in a way that she
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: doesn't in the main franchise. She maintains a relationship with royalty.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: She maintains like she is like a badass in not
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: to I feel like that's over used, but like she's
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: really really cool in this altered because she like rejects
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: the monarchy she becomes an underground revolutionary and uses what
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: she knows about the monarchy to get the Ogres into
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: the palace into like tap like it's all really really
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: cool again and then if you like think it through,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: which you're not supposed to, right, this is like lobotomy
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: brain filmmaking. But like that, Shrek is also totally fine
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: meeting and connecting with this whole community of Ogres and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: just losing that why.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know Shrek. Once he does learn that,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: like you know, what Fiona could have done or what
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: she's capable of if he wasn't involved in her life,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: and you would think the thought would cross his mind,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: like wow, maybe I've been holding her back. So when
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: he does show up again in like Shrek Prime reality,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: he needs to be like miss Shrek. I feel like
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: he needs to be like, hey, babe, like let me
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: help you see your full potential here You're like, you know,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: like is there anything else you want to be doing
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: with your life? Like right, I don't know, it's just.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: Where at that point, Like but at this point, it's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: like it's not even clear at the end of the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: movie if he's ever going to tell her that this happened.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Probably not, I would say, maybe he's not, which is
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: so scary. It's like the end of what was that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: movie we recently covered, Ruby sparks yes, yes, or like
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: at the end he's like, I'm not gonna tell her
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: that I was freaking creep.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: You're like, this absolutely sucks. This stinks as truly.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: The last thing I wanted to touch on was something
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: that comes up a few different times throughout the movie
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: is a discussion of Fiona being quote only half Ogre,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: and then at one point Shrek says something like, well,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: you're not a real ogre. You know, you spent half
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: of your life in a palace. And Fiona, I mean,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: I don't want to necessarily, you know, judge her for
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: how she responds to this, but it's something that I
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: feel like you could equate with, like a person in
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: the real world having a dual identity in some way,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: for example, people who are mixed race, or people who
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: are the child of immigrants and have two or more
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: cultures that are a part of their identity, or just
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: you know, like anyone who's gotten criticized for you know,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: not being xyz enough, you know, when for example, again
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: mixed race people are told, oh, you know, you're not
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: black enough, or you're not Asian enough, or you know,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: whatever the case may be, basically being told like you're
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: not one thing or the other, so you don't belong
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: in either space. I think that would be an interesting
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Not that I think the Shrek movies are capable of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: exploring this any further, but it does get brought up.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Well any any more than the Harry Potter universe was
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: equipped to explore that through Hermion's character. True, I feel
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: like you have a very similar I mean not to
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: bring up Harry Potter, but like, I think it's a
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: similar plot point brought up in the same era that
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: also kind of like was always trying to start that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: but then never quite you know, did.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: Doesn't know how to actually like, yeah, have a character
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: deal with this. Shrek says something like really cruel to her.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: He says, you're not a real Ogre. He's saying this
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: to her as she is like an Ogre.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: Running the Ogre Revolution, and what are you talking about,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: you fucking asshole.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I just it would have again, it would have been
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: cool if that could have been explored more thoughtfully and thoroughly,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: and if we saw like how people saying that to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: her makes Fiona feel because like this is something that
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: like Fiona would likely struggle with or deal with or
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like have feelings about, but we barely see that.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: And also for her own husband to have such a
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: callous way of speaking with her about it, for sure,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: which feels like a step back from what we hear
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: in the first Shrek movie where he is like, that's
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: part of why she falls for him is because he
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: is accepting of who she is in all parts of
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: who she is. But then like they have a couple
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: of kids, and he's like, you're not a real ogre.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: I mean I think that, yeah, these I that it
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: does seem like being mixed race is the clear implication
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: that's being made through Fiona's character. But you're right, like
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: it's I can see, you know, especially in a media
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: property this broad that it could be you know, used
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: for viewers to connect who are coming from a lot
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: of different points of marginalization, and it just basically says
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: like no, Shrek says you gotta pick a lane, and
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: you're like, that doesn't make any fucking sense, And it
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: also just like doesn't even make sense with who we
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: know this character to be, which is why they had
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: to retire him for fifteen years so he could really
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: think about what he said. Yeah, another another big missed opportunity.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: The last thing I wanted to say.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: Is between Shrek the Third and Shrek Forever after another
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: Shrek property came out in two thousand and eight and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: it was on Broadway.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: And it was called Shrek the Musical, right, and I
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: am very intimately familiar with this musical. I didn't get
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: to see it on Broadway, unfortunately, but I have seen
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: several local productions of it. I've seen it seven times,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: oh my god. And I've also watched it a lot.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: There's a professional Broadway recording of it that exists on
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know where it's currently streaming. Generally, with the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: other Shreks, it is really difficult to watch Broadway great.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: Brian Darcy James, who is a decorated Broadway veteran, play
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Shrek beside Sutton Foster, another like Broadway legend playing Fiona,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: and you're just like, what am I watching? And how
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: much money must they have been paid? I hope right?
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: As well as another Daniel Breaker plays Donkey extra like
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: John Tartaglia won a Tony for playing Pinocchio. You're just like,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: this is a nightmare, this is disaster, right, But I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: do love it. I think it is. It's an adaptation
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: of Shrek one that I think honestly worked better than
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: Shrek one. I think it has more emotional punch it
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: gives Shrek. I think so. I just I was thinking
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: about that because this I think opened and closed on
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Broadway between the third and the fourth movie. But it
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: does add to Shrek lore. I don't know. You know,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: if we're talking to the Shrek team and we say,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: is Shrek the musical on Broadway canonical to the Shrek universe,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: I think they would say, I don't care. But in
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: a world where they did care, we would have a
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: little bit of context for Shrek that includes, I think
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: mainly the thrust of it explains why he got mean.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: It implies that he was thrown out by his parents, right.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: I remember that he was when he was very young,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: because that's Ogre tradition, is like to harden yourself to
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: the world in the Ogre like fashion. You get tossed
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: out by your parents when you're very young, and so
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: that's how you become like a hardened Ogre right, and
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: again it's just like, Wow, we have this incredible lore
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: going into Shrek the fourth Edit's like the Broadway musical
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: that won Tony's somehow, by the way, it won one.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: It won Best Costume Design. Sorry John Tartaglia didn't win
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: a Tony for that, but you know, it won a
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: couple drama desks as well. It was nominated for a Grammy.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying it got more than it should have.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, certainly, it just makes me really sad to
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: think of like an actor as good as Brian Darcy
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: James having to get into Shrek makeup every day for
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: eight shows a week. That just seems like a horrible
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: way to have to live. I think about that sometimes. Anyways,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to mention that there was a I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: think probably my favorite Shrek thing is Shrek the Musical
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: because also the music is like good. It's like I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: I think so, I mean, I have a nostalgic attachment
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: to it because I've seen it seven times and like
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: many things Shrek, you know, started as a joke became
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: real over time. But like, the music is good. I
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: would recommend if you're popping on the soundtrack Build a
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: Wall is like a bon Jovi song. It's wild that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: Shrek is singing, and also its pre Trump like it.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: You know, harder to listen to the song build a Wall,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: but he meant he means an emotional wall to keep
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: out pain and hurt. That's another good one. Don't Let
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: Me Go is Donkey's song when he's trying to be
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: Shrek's friend. Iconic song I Know It's Today, A great
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: song for Fiona. Oh god, it's just all I'll admit,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: it's all good. Yeah. So I would say my review
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: of Shrek four is watch Shrek.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: The musical, okay, And my review of Shrek four is
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: watch Puss in Boots the Last Wish.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, incredible? Okay. So we know that this movie
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: passes the Shrek Doel test, Yes, but does it pass
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: the Bechdel test? Well, no, Let's start the year twenty
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: twenty four out on a hard and clear No. The
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: witches talk to each other, but it's only about Shrek,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: and I don't know if we're really given. They're credited
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: with names, but I don't remember learning them canonically.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't address each other by name. No, And yeah,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: they're talking about Shrek, and Fiona doesn't talk to any
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: other women.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: She does. She talks to I think Jane Lynch Shrek, gretched.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: She talks to Gretchen, good name, gret pretty awesome, but gretched,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: I don't believe responds she's making a military plan and
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: they are like the dual smurfets of the town. Also,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: there is one joke at Gretchen's expense where it's implied
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: in this Smurf like Ogre kingdom that everyone has the
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: hots for Fiona but she doesn't. Oh, that is one
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: thing that we didn't get to that even in the
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: world where Fiona is a revolutionary leader, she still can't
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: have it all. Like she has to choose being a
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: war which is which is fundamentally what this movie comes
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: down to. You have to choose having a relationship with
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: a family or being a revolutionary leader and never the
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: Twain shall meet. But they're in a conversation like that
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: I forget where they're like, oh, you know, nothing will
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: convince Fiona to be in a relationship because blah blah
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and Gratch It's like it would convince me,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: and everyone's like, eh, we're not attracted to you and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: you're like, okay, anyways, it doesn't pass the backdel test.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: But what about uh, let's get it coming hot. First
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: nipple scale of the year, Caitlin get pumps?
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: All right? Zero do.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: Do do?
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Do?
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: Do? Do? Do do do?
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so on our scale of zero to five nipples,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: where we rate the movie examining it through an intersectional
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: an interstrectional yes, lens, I would say, I'm going to
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: give this a half nipple. As much as I enjoy
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: seeing the very you know, fleeting moments of Fiona as
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: a revolutionary leader, as a warrior, it's surrounded by a
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: bunch of other gender tropy implications and just all the
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: fat phobia around the puss and boots character. And at
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, this is a story about
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: like a man learning an emotional lesson. He's learning to
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: be more emotionally intelligent and grateful, but also what does
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: he learn. He doesn't learn to communicate any more effectively
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: and open up emotionally to his partner. He learns that
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: he needs to be grateful. But if you have to
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: like have your entire life stripped away from you to
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: learn that lesson, I don't know. Try harder go to therapy,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: like you need to learn gratitude wells.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: And also just as as a Shrek fan demonstrates, I
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: think a real I just realize the sentence I'm about
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: to say demonstrates are real stagnancy and the character development
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: of Shrek. Yeah, you're just like We've had four movies.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: Shrek should be past this stuff now. He's been working
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: through this ship for the whole franchise.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: My goodness. Yeah, he's very static. He never seems to
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: learn or change, and he gets himself into the same
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: high jinks for the same reasons over and over again,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: for Christe's sake. So it's annoying and I will give
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: I'll give my half nipple. I mean, I'm inclined to
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: give it to Fiona.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the alternate universe Fiona.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Alternate universe Fiona.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna give this movie no nipples. I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: was so disappointed. I've been disappointed in this movie for
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: almost fourteen years now, and I don't think I have
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: any nipples to give this time. I feel like, yeah,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: this is like a I think. And also because I
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: I did like, it's a wonderful life, far better than
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: I like Shrek. Forever After. But I feel like it's
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: not an identical but a similar plot and takeaway that
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: like is like worse or at least equally considerate of
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: its woman character almost seventy years later. It's such a bummer, right,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: so I simply have no nipples to give it this time.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: I can't give it any like well it was of
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: the time, like it wasn't. And I would love to
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: see Shrek five written by not two Like, guys, what
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: if that happened?
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: We should write Shrek five.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: I can't.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: I can't handle the pressure. It's too much, at least
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: in Shrek Forever After. When we see alternate reality Fiona,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: she isn't a quote unquote old spinster librarian that's true,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: is a loser because Shrek never married her. She's a winner.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: It's awesome.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: That's the one improvement that we've made in seventy years.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: It's not enough. Yeah, no, no nipples from Jamie. And
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: with that, twenty twenty four is off to the traces.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: We're Shrek the hall. We've shreked the halls and now
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: and now we're off to the traces.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: I also just say, okay, last I just think it's
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: really funny and no offense to the Felicies of the world.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: But I think it was such an underwhelming line to
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: be like, I've always wanted a daughter named Felicia, and
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: you're like, okay, wow, why.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: All of our Felicia listeners just unsubscribed.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: I just it's such a like. No, I mean, I
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: would it would be weird if they said either of
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: our names. You're like, that's a pretty normal, like, that's really.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted a baby Shrek named Caitlin.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Anyways, Happy twenty twenty four. We're rigging
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: it in as always, and again, just another reminder if
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: you want to check out our tour tickets, that's on
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: our link tree, which is linked in the description of
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: this that's San Francisco, Sacramento, d Austin, and San Diego
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: coming up at the beginning of next month. And you
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: can follow us in all the normal places on Instagram,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: and we still post on the platform formerly known as Twitter,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: so that's where you can find us.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, and you can also subscribe to our Patreon aka maatreon,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: where we release two bonus episodes every month, plus you'll
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: get access to the back catalog of one hundred and
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: fifty ish bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. This month is
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Dance December and we're covering Flash Dance and Save the
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Last Dance, So.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: We're celebrating a little late this year. You'll forgive us.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean we never, I
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: mean Portman July has been celebrated in every other month based.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: You're damn right. And you can also get our birch
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: at teapublic dot com slash Bechdel Cast. And again, if
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: you're going to those tour shows, we will have tour
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: exclusive merch at the meet and greet, so that'll be
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: a blast. And we also have an exciting January plan
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: for you, so stay tuned. Gang We love.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Shreculator, sh reculator, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: information about the podcast, please visit link Tree Slash Bechdel
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: Cast