Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 273: Hunting with Sharks

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Ep. 273: Hunting with Sharks · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. Okay,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Kimmy Werner, explain where we are. We are in Kailua
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: kona um in a house after three wonderful consecutive days
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of free diving and spear fishing. Now, uh, help help.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that listeners have that some listeners have the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: same confusion that I had. Is that break this down?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: If you say you're going to Hawaii and then people
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: say island. All the islands have cool names except for
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the one island, and you're supposed to say the Big Island.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And I was asking you, why does the Big Island
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: not have like why did the Big Island be the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Big Island? Why is it not a traditional name? And
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the Big Island does have about traditional name in the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: same way where there's Maui and Oahu and nat the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Big Island is Hawaii Island, and so it's a really
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: cool name, if not the coolest name. It's just gets
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: confusing because the state is also called Hawaii, and so
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: when you say you're going to Hawaii, it just needs
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: more specification, and so it just goes by its nickname
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: more commonly, which is the Big Island. Because all islands
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: have their true Hawaiian name and then they have their
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: English nickname. Maui is, the Valley Isle, is the garden Isle.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: But everyone just calls it by the Hawaiian names, except
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Hawaii Island. Um just gets called by its nickname, the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Big Island. You know, what I've found was interesting talking
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in the last couple of days is the um the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: difference like the mix of one disgusting fish for instance,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the mix of common English okay, like state side English
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: fish names Hawaiian fish names, but then sometimes you refer
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to fish by the Japanese Japanese fish names. Yes, is that?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: How were you brought up with that mix? I feel
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: like every local person connected to the ocean was brought
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: up with that mix. And and that's just one of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the cool things about Hawaii is just um, we have
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: just such a history of immigrants from all over the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: world that kind of came together and formed this melting
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: pot of a culture. And because the Japanese were, you know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: really good at eating fish, and that was already part
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of the cuisine. Um, they ended up making a lot
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of the food that became popular here, and so a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: lot of the Hawaiian fish, Um, they will have English
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: names in Hawaiian names, but a lot of people here
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: do refer to certain ones that are popular in Japanese
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: cuisine by the Japanese names. And that's all just because
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: of the immigrant days, the plantation days, and what real
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: quick like give the names for octopus? Like what what
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: is the what's the is there a there's gonna be
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a Hawaiian name for octopus? Right? The Hawaiian name is he,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and you will hear it more often um these days.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that's because there is an actual
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: intention for a resurgence of just really trying to bring
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: back the Hawaiian language. So these days people do try
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and be intentional if they're saying hey, um. But the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: much more common name that almost everyone calls it by
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: is taco, which is Japanese tacuaco. It was a stressful situation, Alright.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: We're also joined by I don't know, justin you're Kimmy's husband,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know, did you guys, like I don't know
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: what the whole name situation is a lot of people
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: will call me Justin. I kept my last name, Kimmy
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: kept her last name, and our son, Buddy Kimmy gave
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: him my last name. So it's the Buddy now with Turkowski.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Oh ye, good deal. Alright, you guys gotta chime in.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: We gotta cover off on some things we gotta say
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: at Cinematowski. At Cinematowski on the Instagram, on the Instagram.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: That's on the Instagram. That's me on Instagram. See some
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: impressive work. Yes, Okay, Hank. Now, if anything we talked
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: about catches your interest, chime in and we're gonna get
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: back to you, guys. Heavy Duty. We got talk first off,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: you Honest, not here because he's off in a in
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a not less tropical location. He's off filming, uh with
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Clay nucom for media or Hunts. Not Meeting Her Hunts.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: First episode of this season, hosted by Yanni No No,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: none other than Yanni Um, is out to watch on
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: YouTube right now, So go check that out. Everybody turned
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: out real heavy duty for y Honest before and they
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: will do so again. So that's our latest series on YouTube,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Meet Her Hunts. Um. Okay, we're gonna talk about wolves.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: For a minute, Kimmy, do you understand that wolves wolf management,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: wolves very divisive and the Rockies very divisive in the
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Upper Great Lakes. Yes, I have a devisive animal here
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in Hawaii, like our animal everybody likes to argue about,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: not as nothing as controversy as that. I wouldn't say, like,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: we definitely have you know, a lot of um animal
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: lovers who just don't really want people killing animals, and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: there's controversy kind of over that. But I don't think
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: we have any one particular well I can think of
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  Speaker 1: access here. You know, there's controversy because it's an invasive
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: species and it really does detriment to the land, but
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of the population really likes to eat them
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  Speaker 1: and hunt them, you know, but nothing like wolves. Wolves
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  Speaker 1: is pretty pretty big, and that's devisive, biflate, that's on
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the same side, we're like, oh cool, Like it's a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: problem to the environment, so us eating them and killing
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: them help save the land a good deal, you know. Yeah,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of interesting wolf bits in the news lately.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: The first one is kind of baffling to me. Um,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I wasn't there, and I don't really know about how
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: light these fellers got off. So a couple of guys
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: um near Wisdom, Montana, had apparently had a permit two
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: do kyote work of helicopters, So shooting shooting coyotes for depredation,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: livestock depredation out of helicopters, and they are mean to
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing here. They mistook a couple of wolves
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  Speaker 1: for a couple of coyotes, shot him, then when and
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: retreat him, retrieved him on a snow machine. Didn't self report.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I get this tracking with your understanding. Cow didn't self report.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: A couple of game wardens go out to pay these
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: guys a visit, and they have the wolves haven't turned
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: him in Um. According to what's out so far, they
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: didn't have landowner permission to hunt on that property. They
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: did not have wolf hunting permits, they didn't have wolf tanks.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: They did not self report yet the fine, what would
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you get the fine flaunt up being a whopping fo
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: bucks per person. No one had. I don't understand one
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: had four and thirty five. They didn't four one four
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: thirty five to the other. They didn't even They declined
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: to say who the helicopter operator was. The warden quarter
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: here was saying, had they told us the helicopter operator,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: we probably would have talked to them, But the suspects
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in this case wanted to leave them out of it. Normally,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: if you poach a gray wolf, there's there's like big
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: game restitution in Montana, So if you poach an animal Montana,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: they'll look at like what the value of the animal was, right, so,
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  Speaker 1: and what restitution does? It makes it be that if
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you're poaching trophy class animals, it makes it that you
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: could let's say you shoot a white tailed dough. You know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: like your your family is hungry whatever, you shoot a
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: white tailed doll in the summertime to eat it. Uh,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: the restitution end of that, it's gonna be way way
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: smaller than you shoot a trophy class white tail. They're
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: just gonna look at it different because the value to
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the states different. They paid no restitution. Normally, restitution on
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: a gray wolf was a thousand bucks. No forfeiture of
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: hunting privileges. They got breaks because they were rewarded for
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: their cooperation. Yet they didn't self report baffling to me.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not I don't even know what I'm
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  Speaker 1: saying should have happened but I would just if you
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  Speaker 1: told me, if you laid out like someone had a
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  Speaker 1: helicopter permit to shoot Kyles, shot a wolf, didn't tell
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  Speaker 1: anybody got caught later, I would have been like, man,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: that is their ass. The baffling part is they've they
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: said I believe they said that they didn't know they
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: were wolves until the deed was already done. Um and
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: then and and really at that point is where like
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  Speaker 1: the track record of of law breaking begins. So at
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that point they would be like, oh, I'm pretty sure
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: those are wolves. They go out on their snow machine
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  Speaker 1: and go out and they go, oh, now we're on
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  Speaker 1: the ground proofing the fact that yes, these are wolves.
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  Speaker 1: At that that is the exact point at which they
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: are supposed to call the game warden. You can't then
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: retrieve them, take them back because that would really cast
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  Speaker 1: a lot of doubt on the fact that they misidentified
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  Speaker 1: a wolf for a coyos and the wardens were tipped off. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: their plan was the skin and they had no plan
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  Speaker 1: to even report it. But anytime you kill the wolf
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: you have to report it. Yes, I mean, if you
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: kill the wolf, legally you're supposed to report it. And
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I think this is just like a really weird gray
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: area that that's not actually supposed to exist of what
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the social tolerance is. And and I know, for my
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: personal experience of being in that valley, just just walking
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: around being a new face in town, people are like, hey,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: do you you here to shoot wolves? You know? Um?
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: And I then this is very tongue in cheek information,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: but I know it to be fact. The landowner I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: had no idea this was going on, but was fine
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  Speaker 1: with it. My only comment here is only that I
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: would have said, man, that's gonna be their asses. Yeah, no,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: it you know. And and we've had some history in
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the state right where it's like, oh, I'm not sure
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: if the law would have landed that way for me
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: regarding wolves and the take of wolves. So when I
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: went to read that article in the Montana Standard, I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: had to take a survey. Not what the survey was like,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you have to like answer too, must you have to
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: answer marketing question? To read the article I wanted to
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: know of how likely are you to try to lose
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: weight in the next seven days? I put down not likely,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and then I was I was allowed access to read
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the article. Idaho speaking to speaking of wolves Idaho getting
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: real explain all this cow alright, so on as as
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I read on the meat eator dot com on the
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: gloves off taking the gloves off on wolf management. On
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Wednesday the fifth, the Governor of the State Idaho signed
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: into law Bill twelve eleven, which is legislative action against
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: wolves um And that's a big thing in the state
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of Idaho because the state of Idaho is supposed to
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: have an independent fishing game and an independent Fishing Game Commission.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Those commissioners can be and and typically are appointed by
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the governor of the state, but it's still considered independent
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of the general lawmaking of the state of that You
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: get your appointment from the governor, but that doesn't mean
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: you owe him your bidding. Correct. Same thing with you know,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, right right, even though presidents get very annoyed
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: when they're appointees, do not do their bidding exactly exactly
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and work very very hard to make sure if they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: have the appoint the ability to make an appointee, they're
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: they're damn sure gonna make make it happen. Underneath. You know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to say this, but you do understand
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: exactly right, but so like your fishing game Commission is
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: supposed to be balanced of UM, you know, some folks
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that understand the interests of the state. UM. So it's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: supposed to be representative of let's say, agriculture, recreation, hunting,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and outfitting for sure, outfitting, yeah, bird walk. You know,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like a good mix right of
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: of what the state interests are. UM. Anyway, so for
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the first time in the state of Idaho, we have
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: legislative overreach, if you will. UM that says, you know, basically,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: this is how we're going to handle a big game animal,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: which is what the wolf is considered to be in
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the state of Idaho, a big game animal. It's also
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: considered to be a big game animal in the state
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: of Montana. And the reason for that is this wasn't
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: an independent decision. In order to get state management of
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the wolf and get that animal off the endangered species list,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the state's made an agreement to say we're going to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: manage this animal this way. They came out with UH
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: management plan that was agreed upon, and then that's how
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: states got the ability to manage the wolf UH and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: hunters got to be able to hunt the wolf and
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: trappers gotta be able to trap the wolf. That was
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: an interesting thing if you look back to that decision
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: how you're going to manage It was interesting because when
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: they were first talking about the delistening thing in states
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: where need the states needed to come forward to say, Okay,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: if if we're gonna remove federal management of wolves, states
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: need to have management planning proposals. And I remember Wyoming
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: was an examsistent that they were going to manage wolves
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: is a big game animal in a certain core area
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: in the northwest corner of the state. But they wanted
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to basically take like a coyote style like they want
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to do like like coyote management the rest of the state.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And I remember that was amazing. They stuck to their
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: guns and got there. But initially I thought, man, you're crazy,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Like why not just do what Montana and Idaho were
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: doing and just do big game animal get the whole
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: thing over with. But they toughed it out and got
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: through and have like a management plan that's decidedly different
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: in that state, and and that is core to this bill, right,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the difference between a big game animal and environment. So
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a big game animal, wolves, big horn sheep, elk, deer,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: they're managed a certain way. Vermints which would be coyotes, skunks, raccoons,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: they're managed a certain way to where. Um, your big
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: game animals have seasons, they have tags, they have harvest
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: reports typically uh, and your environments are managed much more
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: loosely to where they are UH an opportunity animal of
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: opportunity if you if you will, UM, there's much more
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: leeway on how an individual chooses to manage that animal
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: when they come across it. So typically choose symbolmatic of
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like a low amount of public desire to yes, right,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: there's not there's not a big demand on the resources, correct, yeah, um.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And so Idaho has the wolf listed as big game animal,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: which means tags are required and there's a harvest report
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and involved. What this legislation does is um says, yes,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it's a big game animal, you are going to have
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to purchase a tag. But the means of take, the
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: legal means of take, will be of that of the coyote.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be legal to pursue this animal
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: in all the ways that you can legally pursue a coyote.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So it's a much more broader means of take, but
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you still have to have the tag, you still have
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to commit to your harvest report. YEA. For instance, you
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: can't run an elt down on a snow machine, but
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you can run and a coyote down on a snow machine.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: You can't use thermal vision thermal night vision to hunt
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: an elk, but you can for a coyote, right, And
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: so that's that's how these means of take are are
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: being broadened. It says here that in Idaho, like in
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: two thousand twenty, there was only eighty four confirmed wolf
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: kills on cattle. Yeah, very small percentage when you're thinking
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: of in the three year average, it's wolf kills per
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: year um, which is like very very small, like point
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: zero zero four. What's interesting is all these means of
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: take that you uh can use to pursue coyotes, we're
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: actually legal under depredation circumstances. If you had a depredation
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: incident regarding wolves and you went through the proper channels,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you could hunt wolves using thermal vision night vision, you
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: could uh, you know, you could be very aggressive as
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: if you were not hunting a big game in a
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: case on a case by case basis, on a case
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: by case basis. Same with those guys were just talking
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: about they were able to they had permits or you know,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: according to them I think, and maybe they did, I
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: don't know, had permits to aerial gun for coyotes. Exactly right,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: not just anybody can be like, you know what, let's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: run a helicopter this weekend, right, Um. So that that's
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: another great example. So there's all these things where it's like, well,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: how did we get to this point of saying, well,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: we have to take legislative action to provide for these things,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: many of which are already provided for in the state's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Predator Management Plan, of which wolves have a dual role
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of being a big game animal and a predator. Right.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Um chets point of how much livestock depredation there actually
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: is for how many animals are out there is very
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: very low. What Um is hard to consider is the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: stress factor of livestock on ground where where wolves are
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: just heavy predator numbers are where you could potentially have
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: animals stressed to where they're not putting on the amount
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: of weight that you would expect them to over a
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: typical amount of time on a typical pasture because you
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: get run ragged because they're getting run ragged. Um. You
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: could also have so you could have lighter animals, right
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you know, weight means cash in the bank for livestock person.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Or you could even have some instances where you are
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: not getting the calf recruitment or lamb recruitment um that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you typically would, so you have to um have way
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: more rams or bowls in with your cows for a
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: lot longer than you typically do. Um. You know, so
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: it just it adds up to more expense for these producers.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: And a lot of this is being pointed towards wolves.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: That that's an interesting counterpoint because when I was looking
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: at the egg well als looking at different states like
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the number of cows actually killed by wolves or sheep
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: killed by wolves, the numbers are low. Oh then you
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: go to people you're like, well one those are confirmed
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and a lot of guys that turn out livestock to
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: run um, they don't see it for months on end.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So you you go back and round everything up which
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: has been out of your site for many months, and
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: you get numbers to come back. There's there's an enormous
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: like there's a question mark leaning what they'll happened to him?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: You don't go out there and it's like you get
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: a mortality signal on a tracking collar and go out
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: there and confirm every one. So those are like confirmed
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: cases and they have to be confirmed to be compensated.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: So if you put three hundred out in two ninety,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: come back and you have no idea what the hell
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: happened to the other ten, you then don't go down
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and get your money from the middle. The Wolf Mitigation
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: program correct you. You have to bring out your BLM
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: officer or US Fishing Wildlife person take come check out
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that kill site, determine if it actually is a kill site.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you right now, there's a million ways
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: a sheep likes to die. Growing up in my family,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: we saw it all the time, and that's what we
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: just kind of chock it up to. It was like, boy,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: sheep just love to die, right, And then like the idea,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: but to go out with that though, the idea of
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: like stress induced abortion of of fetuses, and then we're
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: just the refusal to take yeah weight than the weight reduction.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: What it does is allows people to point and say, okay, yeah,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't lose that many that I know about. But
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: wolves are costing me a lot of money exactly, yep.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And then it kind of leaves a little bit of lingering.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: It's kind of proved me wrong, right right, And and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you know, I think with most cases, like there's there's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a there's some truth there. I'm sure like in in
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: certain areas there's some truth. Um, there's there's a meet
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: in the middle type of situation. Um. What's interesting though,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and I would certainly point the fact that, Um, what's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: interesting to me is like, why is this being taken
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: care of legislatively? When you look at the numbers of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: how Idaho Fishing Game has managed as an independent fishing
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: game has managed wolves. Um. There. So if you look
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: at it that when the very first season in Idaho
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you were allowed to hunt wolves, I believe you could
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: have five tags. There was no trapping season, and it
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: was confined to a very small area. As the wolf
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: population grew, there were more hunting tags and then trapping seasons.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: The area of take also expanded. Two. Now currently in
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the state of Idaho you can hunt wolves almost and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: this is before this legislation goes into effect, which I
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: think is going to be Junior July. Um, you can
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: hunt wolves three and sixty five days a year or
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: trap wolves almost three sixty five days a year in
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: all game management units throughout the entire state. That's already
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the case. That's already the case. You can get fifteen
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: hunting tags fifteen trapping tags. You're hunting tags can be
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: used for trapping as long as that season is open
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: to hunting at the time of take. And and you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to be clear that the trapping side of things is
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: just a much more effective means of taking wolves. Um.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And So you're seeing the state agency respond to the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: growth of wolves um and I think the biggest sticking
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: point is, like, what we're seeing is a social tolerance
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that is being been exceeded with a very large, an
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: influential group in the state of Idaho. We're saying, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: When the state Wildlife Management Plan four Wolves started, it
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: was a hundred and fifty wolves on the landscape. Yeah,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and it was funny about that number. Is that number
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: at that time was unsettling to some people. Yes, yes,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that's way too many. The estimated wolf population in state
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Idaho now is hundred wolves, right, And like wildlife management
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: is just not an exact science, Like everybody loves numbers,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: but they can't wrap their head around the fact that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: it's like counting anything wild is very hard to do. Like,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: there's a bunch of wild chickens around this house. Like
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: take a ballpark estimate of how many birds there are
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: at six? How'd you come up with that? He was like, well,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the first day, well I saw one softore. Yeah. Right,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: but uh, the state Idaho has a bunch of camera
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: traps out there. They do aerial surveys. Um, there's as
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: few as let's say, nine hundred, there's as many as
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: two thousand, and in the middle there's the number. I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: think that I don't think that anyone imagined when they
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: delisted wolves. Um, I don't think anyone imagined how ineffective
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: human hunters would prove to be. I think they I mean,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think that the idea was that you would
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like manipulate this dial and turn that up and down.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But it's like they've opened it wide up. I don't
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: know if it's a lack of motivation. I'm part of
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: the public. I think a lot of people buy the tags, like, oh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I'll run into one. I think the wolves have gotten
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: very smart. They avoid people and those numbers just grow
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: and grow and grow. And I think that people when
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: when they started these hunting seasons, they're supposed to be
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the end of wolves. Oh yeah. In the headlines, right,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it was like, the hunters are going to kill mall right.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: But and and I think you're wrong in the fact
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: that there were plenty of folks that have similar interest.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: A lot of the people in this room do a
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: lot of reading, and we're well versed on all the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: old trapper and mountain man books and stuff, and it's like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: if you read those things, the way we got rid
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of wolves was pumping a bunch of carcasses full of
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: strick nine, and whatever ate on them died, right, And
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of what ate on those carcasses were wolves.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And we did that everywhere the book I'm reading right now,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I keep talking about I want to do a full
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: report on Alaska's wolf man. When he was doing wolf work,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: he would go into an area where there was like
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a caribou herd that was getting too much predation on it,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and any patch of high ground around he would shoot
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a caribou, lace its carcass with strick nine and then
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: use also a little balls of fat that he would
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: also poison and scare at them all around, and that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: was his methodology. Yeah, the plinking away at him, it
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: was wholesale like, and asked him to how effective that was.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: He was working your cotsoby one time poisoning wolves and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a guy reported that he saw a group of nine wolves.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: It was like two black wolves and seven gray ones
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: calm off the sea ice and he's like, oh, it's interesting.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: A couple days later, goes to check one of his
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: bait stations. There's all nine of them, two black ones
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and seven gray phase laying around his bait station. Very effective,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: very effective, And I don't in any way think that
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: we need to return to that. But that was it
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: wasn't shooting at him. Doesn't say what else he's killing.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: He well, there's a picture of him doing a grip
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and grin with a wolverine that turned up as one
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of his bait stations, So I bet you can only imagine.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So basically, the legislation here, which which is going to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: become law in in junior July UM provides for a
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: lot of things that we're provided for with the intended
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: purpose of mitigating live scott livestock damage. UM now it's
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: up to the state agency to you to figure out
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: how to implement this program that that's been handed to them.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: And the scary thing to me, and this is I'm
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: not like trying to fearmonger here is uh before you
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: get into the scary part in the bill. The frustration
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: is that from the state legislator, it's that the frustrations
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that effishent game isn't doing enough. Yes, but if you
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: look at the numbers despite all the things you laid
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: out that they're doing, Like but but that's the criticism,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Like if you won't do your job, I'll do it
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: for you, right, And it's a lack of patience, right
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and and and really, yes, thank you for keeping me
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: on track, Like that's the problem wildlife management. Right. It
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: takes a lot of time because what they're doing is
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: they're making incremental adjustments to a growing population and they're
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out like the magic number for wolves
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: is forty. You have to remove fort of a population
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: in an area. There's only one study that backs this up,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: but that number is forty. If you can remove fort
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of the population, you'll see a decline, a gradual decline
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: overall in the wolf population come in. That's surprising to me.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And that's a lot of animals, right fort of a
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: total and overall population is a shipload. If you did
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that too, if you did that to a population of
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: mountain goats, they'd never recover. Oh no, no, So but
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: last year, the state of Idaho, under the current regulations,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: removed over thirty of the population of the overall population
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of wolves in the state of Idaho, which if you
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: put that in the context of big game animals, of
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: which it's classified like, you'd be turning some freaking heads
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: if you were removed of the white tail population someplace, right. Um,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: But that's not an apples to apples. So um. The
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: scary thing here is here is a social response two,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: a scientific management situation that says, what, by god, if
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna do something, we're gonna do something. I
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: have very very very serious doubts that the legislation is
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: going to result in some magical sixty percent reduction of
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the total overall wolf population in the state. And what
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: happens when that happens, is there going to be another
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: shoot from the hip social legislative response that says, Okay,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: then we do need to start poisoning on public land.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: You can poison through uh you know, uh certified agencies
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: on private land currently. But you know, you take the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: state Idaho. You got hundred wolves in the entire state
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: of Idaho. Dead center in the state is this impassable
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: chunk of ground that connects with Hall's Canyon, um the
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: frank Church Wilderness, which is two point four million acres.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Do the math on fred wolves covering two point four
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: million acres. Right, it's no big surprise that people aren't
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: running into wolves left, right and center. Right. You can
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: run into a lot of wolf tracks, but actually putting
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: eyes on one is tough. Um Like, we're not. I
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: just don't think we're gonna get to some astounding amount
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: of wolves with this legislative tool that all of a
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: sudden got pulled out of the toolbox. And what happens
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: when that reality sets in? Are we then going to
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: see this slippery slope which is the analogy we love
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: to use in the hunting world of more managing wildlife
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: through legislation. The headlines around this would tell you that
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be very effective. Writers. I had a whole
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: lawmakers pass bill to kill most of state's wolf population,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I don't think so, no, no, no,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I mean the we know some things are effective, right,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: we know trapping is effective, but effective trappers the overall
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: trapping population is very low. The very effective trappers within
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: that population is very very low. And I mean it's
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: a full time job through through the hunting reports, you know,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: because it's a big game animal. You gotta report your
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: heart of best in the state of Idaho. UM, there's
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: been one trapper who's filled his twenty tags, and that
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: that was from last two two thousand nineteen season, I believe,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: where you were limited to ten hunting tags ten trapping tags.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Talk to that guy, Oh, I would love to too.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: If you're listening, please right in. We'll give you a
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: hat or something, because that's an amazing feats. Would love
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: just to get a little bit of intel from that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: guy about what he goes about doing. Yeah, and I
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: guarantee it's not like, oh, well one weekend I went out.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: What's their end goal with that? Just to like the
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: people that want the wolves gone gone? I mean, if
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you think about eight in two thousand and twenty, going
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: back to that, there's a D two confer cattle that's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: pretty good in my opinion, but it's those other unforeseen things.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And then there's also there's also sort of like proxy stuff, right, Like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: there's an enormous amount of like it's it's not even
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: a debatable fact that it has ramifications for big game hunting,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: right But if a hunter says, hey, my problem with
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: having what I would call too many wolves is it
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: lowers the get the pool of animals out there for
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: people who want to hunt, because the people looking and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: be like, well, that's an illegitimate argument. So I think
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: it's in a little wait, there's sort of like taking
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: a thing that has some level of public sympathy, which
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: would be a livestock producers ability to stand business, right like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that seems important. And you take all of these different
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: anxieties about wolves, whether they come from people who have
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: what I would argue to be very ill founded concerns
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: about human welfare, legitimate concerns about wild game populations, legitimate
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: concerns about cattle shoes, and you kind of put it
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: into a place that seems like the best way you're
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: gonna win um for hunters to say, like, I want
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: there to be a lot more elk around because I
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: like to shoot at them. People like are very unsympathetic,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: even though that to me seems like an extremely rational argument,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: people are very unsympathetic to that. And from the Clearwater
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: North all the way, which is essentially the Panhandle, Idaho,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: if you look at it as a as a handle
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: with frame pan on the end um from the Clearwater
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: North there there's unmistage, Like there's no doubt there's been
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: a reduction in elk numbers in those zones. But that's
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: also where the bulk of the authorized wolf depredation like
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: aerial gunning, has gone on. And that's that's where like
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the big the hammer, sledge hammer sized tools and the
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: tool kit are coming out to reduce those those wolf
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: numbers in those zones. There's also the issue if you're
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: still running around with from the mid nineties when they
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: began to do reroductions, people had to put numbers out there,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: and you're you're at zero, right, You're at like effectively
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: zero wolves. So people say, what does success look like
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: to you? And they threw out some numbers that now
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: seemed like astonishingly low, but they were. They threw out
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: numbers that people could agree with. They're like oh, let's
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: say hundred fifty, you know, like low asked numbers, and
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: then people are like, wow, I guess if it's only
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: a hundred fifty, I can get on board with that, right,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I won't resist that as much. And then time goes
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on and they have es a predict protection. You hit
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: one fifty, and then the states say, okay, we're there,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: We're gonna go back to state management, and then people
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: use lawsuits to block those management plans for twenty years,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the one fifty we were
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: talking about is one thousand, five hundred, and people get
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: real used to that number. So then this number that
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: everybody agreed on one fifty, some of the proposals we
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: go back to one fifty. And how are you treated
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: in the media. You want to kill nine of the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: wolves and I don't know, I didn't come up with
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the number. You guys came up with the number even
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: even in this discussion. Right, what we're looking at is
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: this vacuum where it's the number of elk versus the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: number of wolves, and all the other factors aren't being
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: taken into account. Right, So from the Clearwater North, that's
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: like the Densest thickest pine forest in the state Idaho,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: which at the time of Lewis and Clark, they were like,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the natives around there, the Nez Perce were like, oh,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: there's no food up there, Like you're you're gonna starve
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: in the mountains. Right then, we had major catastrophic fires
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: um the big burn era right that ripped through there,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: along with heavy timber management, like heavy timber management with
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: which opened up a ton of country. There were elk
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: re reintroductions going on, so we you had fresh growth,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: rehab growth in that area and then constant timber production,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: more big burns in the thirties, constant timber production. It
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: was much more. It was a much better place to
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: be as an elk during that time. That very well
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: could have been the heyday of elk in that region,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: and it very well could be this real terrible meet
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in the middle situation of less timber management. Some of
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: that has to do with with um the lawsuit type
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: of situation around timber harvest, and we haven't had big
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: burns and you got wolves that are just really freaking
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: hard to get on in in big, dark, dark timber,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and that area grows really big bowls and really big
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: bucks because they're really hard to get on in big
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: dark timber two. Um. But you know, I was talking
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: with a buddy of mine and he's like, and I'm
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: not making fun of this guy in any way, but
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: he just said, he's like, my family has been hunting
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: in the exact same spot, killing elk for thirty five
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: years and we haven't seen I haven't seen an elk
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: in uh, you know, ten years or something like that.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: And it's it's hard to say, but it's like the
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: only thing that hasn't changed in that scenario is the
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: fact that you guys put your camp in the exact
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: same spot. Everything else has changed, forest management practices, everything
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: has changed. Like it's just it's not you don't live
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: in a vacuum, and it's it's so hard to contextualize
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. Now I'm really done. No, that's great.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Here's the interesting one. This this is like one of
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: those things. Uh, this is one of those pieces of
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: reporting where someone does something kind of crazy, has no
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: chance of passing, but it still makes the news everywhere.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: In Oregon. There's a bill, Um what's it called. It's
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: called the It's an initiative called the Abuse Neglect and
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Assault Exemption Modification Improvement Act, which would make it in Oregon.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: This is a bill put out there. An animal could
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: only be injured in cases of a human self defense.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: A veterinarian could still spay and neuter household pets, but
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: you would not be able to make it illegal to
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: kill livestock. Um. It would be illegal to force and pregnant,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: force impregnation on livestock, and would ban meat production in
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: the state of Oregon. That's like an interesting, very aggressive approach,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: but again it's almost like not worth even reporting. Actually
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: will never go anywhere, but it's interesting the sexual mutilation
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: aspect of it. Uh, Chester instead of bitcoin? Yep, you
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: know what you should have invested in? Well, everyone's saying
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: doge coin for us? Off Hollos Bitcoin, the Continuing Adventures
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: of Chester the investor. Come that's it come off? Um,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: It's it's just kind of up and down and up
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and nah, it's not petered out. It's just I think
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: it's still smart to dabble in it. Well, we had
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: our when we had our meat, did you buy a
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: meatcrafter knife or did you get one for free? When
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: we came out with our bench bade meatcrafter. I would
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: have loved one, though listen, there was there's a limited number.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: They're all gone. They were sold for three hundred bucks apiece.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: A guy has put one up on eBay. He got,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: uh thirty seven bids. The bidding on that knife closed
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: at one thousand, two five dollars plus twenty dollars shipping
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: and handling. Thirty seven bids. Knife now going for one
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: thousand two bucks. You got any more of those laying around?
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I just I just asked Casey how many we got,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: because we're gonna start our meat Eator auction house of oddities.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: And at first I didn't think that that because it's
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: an auction, it's for conservation spending. We're auction off weird
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: ship cool stuff. Like the first thing is Buck Bold,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: a birch bowl, a buckey bowl by Buck Bowing, all
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. We gotta bring home something from this trip.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Um and now we can put our own knives in there.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And now that they're like collectors, I can't believe that.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Uh, the suvied thing, even though I promise
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: not to talk about anymore. Um, that's still interesting though.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: So the whole with everybody who listens is aware of this.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: The conversation about the guy that warmed his birthing his
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: wife's birthing pool with a Suvie wand a pastor just
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: wrote in he's always struggled with getting his baptismal well,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: what do they call it? Just calls it the baptismal
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: three gallon Galvini I stock tank for baptizing people. He's
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: always struggled with watertown got himself Suvie. This keeps a
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: very comfortable temperature, but then pulls the wand out when
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: he has the baptism, when he has to baptize somebody.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: This reminds me of do you remember when we were
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: all sitting there freezing our butts off in the ripping
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: wind on a super icy lake this winter. We're talking
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: about methods keeping the ice hole from your generator in
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: the Suvie one. We run a shipload of su VI's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: out there. So this guy right here, genuine pastor doing
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: baptisms and Suvie heated water. He even send a picture. Uh, Kimmy,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: this I want you to win on this one. We've
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: been had. We were having a debate recently about how
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: why snap and turtles don't seem to want to bite
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: you underwater, but as soon as you lift him out,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: they want to bite you. The guy was saying, this
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: is this is apropo. Guy wrote, and I was in
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Hawaii a few years back. We decided to do a
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: guided storkling trip. He says. His family is very scared
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: of the ocean, so they were overloading the guide with
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: questions about what all will bite you. They got to
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: question about getting bit by sharks, They questioned about getting
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: stung by urchins, and then one of his cousins says,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: do the sea turtles ever bite? The guide laughed, acted
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: like it was the dumbest question he'd ever heard. Says
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: he's been diving for forty years. I never seen anyone
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: bit by a sea turtle. The guy goes on to say,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I shoot you not. Those were the last words that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: beach Bump said before hopping in the water and immediately
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: having a full grown, three pound piste off mama sea
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: turtle latch onto his stomach. Do you buy that? I do.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I know someone who got bit by a turtle. My
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: friend Angela's a spear fisher in Um. A turtle just
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: came up to her and bitter right on the butt
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: and they through the wet suit bolke skin, but still
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: love bite. But yeah, why do you think they're they
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: would bite? I honestly think that because that turtle was
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: kind of known, like it was in this place where
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: we'd go a lot for blue water diving for oos
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: and stuff. But in that type of diving you have
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: chum and and and turtles will eatum, they will eat octopus,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: will eat all kinds of things if if they're fed it.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of times people have
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: kind of got to know that turtle and maybe we're
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: feeding it, And so I think it was just kind
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: of a hay feed me thing. And so that story
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: that you just told, I bet if they're taking tourists
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: snarkling there, you know, there could be someone feeding the turtle.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: And I think that when they become like pets, they
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: want to ask for a snack and they don't have
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: any other way to ask. So as I've had one
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: bite my fin before ye diving and scared the ship
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: out of me, I didn't know what it was. And
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: there's a curiosity bite, I think more and anything. It
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't aggressive, and it's also pulling on your friend. Yeah,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: just real rightly though. Uh, this is interesting from Nature's
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: metal there day the sex changing tongue eating ocean house.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: You know about this cow, Yeah, it looks like that.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: A little alien. There's a bug. It's not a bug,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: there's an ocean house lays eggs on a ficious gills.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: They like snappers. His his Linarian name is Simon thoah
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: x Agua Xegua. I don't know they live inside uh
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: so that this picture is out of South Africa. Their
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: offspringer born in the ocean. A group of attached themselves
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: inside the gills of a fish. They like to target snappers.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Once they're tapped, one individual from the group will become
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: a female, a proto Andriddick hermaphrodite. She grows larger, so
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: one of them decides to become female. That one girls
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: big moves onto the tongue of the fish, clamps onto
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the fish's tongue, feeds off its blood, eventually cuts off
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: the blood supply to the tongue. The tongue atrophies and
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: falls off. Then the parasite assumes the responsibilities of the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: tongue and lives there as a tongue permanently. Everybody else
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: stays a male, and they all are. It's sort of
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: like bivy of mates hanging out on the gills. Boys,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: it's like the females. It's her little harem of males
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: stuck to the gill. The great picture. Oh here's the
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: one last thing that caught my attention. I'm on the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I get emails, and I used to I've tried to
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: not I've tried, like subscribe it. You can't unsubscribe, and
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Non'm glad I didn't unsubscribe, even though I've tried a
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: couple of times. From the Wildlife Conservation Society, they came
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: out with like they're sort of like rolling with the
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: social distancing thing, you know, and they're saying and they
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: came out with this research about how we need the
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: social or throwing out there that we should social distance
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: from animals better. And it looks at non consumptive recreation
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: and the impacts of non consumptive recreation on animals. And
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: they're putting out distances at which your presence screws with
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: wildlife waiting burns and song birds hundred nine yards hawks
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and eagles. You should stay four thirty seven yards away
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: from them mammal threshold distances a thousand yards for large
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: on that's like moose, you should stay fifty four yards
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: away from small rodents. Well there's a get go. Just
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: caught him off right here. Well, you're way too close
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: to his ask is eighteen inches. It's from from a
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: gecko fighting. That was an ambitious you should make a
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: little video that sweet meal. We've we've had qualified captain
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: and Nature is Metal in two days. Well I caught
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: it right there while we're talking about how you shouldn't
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: get so close to critters. But point being, that's a
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: really ambitious ask. Like, I don't know what people are
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: gonna do with those numbers. Boy, people in parks national
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: for us getting them to read a sign I think
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: is uh thousand yards from moves fifty yards from a chipmunk.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: It's a real hard Yeah, I can't picture just getting
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: much traction be real good for folks in the laser
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: range laser range finder industry that need to carry range
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: finder with you. I think what this report will do
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: is it I think that it will. It won't like
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: it would be horrifying to see this enacted by law,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: but I think it does make people asked people to
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: be aware of what their presence asked people to be
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: aware of what their presence around animals do. But when
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: I see an animal, I always want to go over
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: there and check it out. Oh yeah, I very rarely
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: moved by the desire to get farther away. And YouTube
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: is full of people like you. It's like, I don't know.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: It's worst thing would be that you're worrying wildlife. It's
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the way I would sell as You're just going up
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: there to have a look. Look look at that. Let's
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: go and have a look. It's just my instinct, man.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: So seeing this felt like I felt really singled out.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Fifty four yards from a chipmunk. My mom's head right
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: now as she sleeps is about three inches from a chipmunk. Chipmunk.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Then on the other side of the brick. All right,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Kimmy and Johnson, give yourself, give you guys a better,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: more thorough introduction. Now Red Talk Shop, Red Talk Hawaii
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: introduced myself. Both of you like give you like what
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: your stick is, what's your spe you know your spiel?
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: These are all Yiddish terms. I think, like what your
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: deal is. I'm Kimmy Werner and I was born and
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: raised here in Hawaii, Maui and grew up kind of
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: tagging along with my dad when he would go spear fishing.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And now I'm a spear fisher woman myself, and this
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: is my husband justin. How did you guys meet spear fishing? No,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I met on a gig. I got hired from Minnesota
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: to come to Hawaii to be a production assistant, and
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Kimmy was the talent on the show. And we worked
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: together for a while. And once work was done, we
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: um hung out. Yeah, yeah, we did the wind up
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: being that did that? How was that received by the
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: rest of the production team? Well? Good, Actually we waited
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: until it was kind of over, you know, just for
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: the sake of well, nothing happened on production. You guys
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: took a shine to each other. I just stared at
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: him a lot and and and then after production wrapped,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: like we did some filming here and then we went
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to Mexico and then after production wrapped. Um, then we
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: started talking and then I invited him to Hawaii. About him,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I liked that he was really nice and that he
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: worked really hard because it was um kind of a
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: ship show of a production, like it was really bad,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: and and there was a lot of tempers and stress
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and egos and all kinds of stuff that you just
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: really it wasn't a good feeling production a lot of times.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: And and Justin who had just taken a gig. He's
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: he was a cinematographer for snowboarding and bow hunting, but
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: he just took a gig as a p a just
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: because he wanted to come to Hawaii. And so he
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: was kind of working so hard rookie circles around a
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: lot of people, and I just noticed that he was
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: just always kind to everyone, and in the midst of
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: all that stress, it was just like something I could
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: tune into to not get irritated. And he had nice eyes,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: would you like, I remember just watching her goal pro.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I mean she was very kind to everyone, of course,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: and she cooked very well, which is really great, but
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: most of your kindness. But then I remember being blown
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: away on one of our trips, like I'm so new
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: at this point to the ocean. And when we were
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: in Mexico, she was wearing a goal pro and she
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: shot an ahi, And first of all, I didn't even
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: know you could like shoot fish underwater, which spear fishing.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know what it really because it's still
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: hanging from a tree. If you do that in Minnesota
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, now I hear about shooting Walleye and
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: then really um Montana, but so I remember watching that
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and I just thought like, holy sh it, this is
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: the most badass thing I've really ever seen, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: and her just like being able to do that in
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: control and then learning more of out her. But then um,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: once we were able to just spend time with each
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: other when she brought me, like I had like four
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: days off in between hunts. She brought me to uh Maui,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: where we ended up getting married like eight years later,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: and she came over from a different island, and she
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: brought venison, lobster and minpaci, which you guys learned about um.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: And then we fell in love and it was It's
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the same type of lifestyle that I grew up on,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: except for in Hawaii. You know, I was really attracted
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: to lakes and wilderness and hunting, and she was everything
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: about that, um, but in Hawaii, which was so foreign
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: to me. So now being here eight years, I felt
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: like a kid again, learning the ocean and learning a
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: whole new hunting tactic of of spear fishing, you know,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: learning the oceans, learning how to free dive and things
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: like that. So she really has changed my life in
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: such a great way. And it was kind of neat because, um,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: when after our four day first date, you know, when
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: we did fall in love and um, Justin, it was
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: kind of an interesting situation and because we wanted to
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: be together, I wanted to be in Hawaii, and so
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Justin was trying to figure out how to get here.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: But he was a snowboarding cinematographer and so it's not
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: like the easiest career to keep living in Hawaii and um,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and so it's just really neat that somehow I was
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: able to take this Minnesota boy and just like train
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: them to dive, and it ended up being the coolest
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: thing to like mold this person from scratch to be
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: this underwater cameraman who had no bad habits at all,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: and I could really just like teach him like where
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: to lay, how to how I hunt, And it ended
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: up just being really cool a good way to um
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: bring us together first of all. But now that we
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: still do that today, it's just it's pretty fun. Yeah,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: you guys worked together like a very fine tuned machine,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: but you know what each other is thinking. Yeah, without
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: And that's one thing. In water, you can't really communicate
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: right unless you stick your head up, and then you're
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: burning energy yelling or talking. You're trying to get that
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: person's attention. So it's just all like the more instinct
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: you can be, the better, because there are so many
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: times when I wanted to say things to to you
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: and to cow in the water, and I just like
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: I wish it was like hunting on land when when
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: someone's helping me, they're always whispering in my ear, and
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: that there's so how many times I want it's like
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: whisper in your ear, But I can't because you can't
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: talk underwater. And if I take my head out of
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the water to talk to you gotta take your head
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: of the water. At anytime your head's out of the water,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: it's not good because you're taking yourself out of that world.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: You're taking your eyes off that fish. And so it's
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: it's really um a difficult place to communicate with words.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: And so the more you learn to just watch somebody's
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: body language and understand what they're thinking and what they're doing,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: the more seamless. You become like a pack. Oh yeah,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: watching you do is very apparent, like it's it's I mean,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: it's it's fun to see like the level of i
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: mean communication and and just like flow that that's possible.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: You know what when you were what was your earliest
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: exposure to the ocean. My dad says I was four.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I remember it when I was five. But around four
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: or five, my dad um started letting me take along
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: with him to do what to go spear fishing. I
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: wouldn't spear fish, but my dad, um, that's how he
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: put food on the table. My parents didn't really have
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of money, and that's like literally how he
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: fed us was to go spear fishing and um. And
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: he always just says it's because when my mom was
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: working as a waitress, he couldn't afford a babysitter, so
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: he just started bringing me along. And at first he
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: would just told me on a bookieboard, but I'd always
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: want off the boogieboard. I don't want to see everything.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: So then my job was just to keep up, and
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: so all I would do is swim on the surface.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't help much, you know, I just tell him
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: what I wanted for dinner and watch him go down
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: and get it for me. But that was my earliest introduction.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Were your parents married, They were married? Yeah, And then
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: how far back he married was your was your father
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and mother both born in Hawaii. My mom was born
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: in Hawaii. My dad was born in New Mexico. Yeah,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: and he came here and took to just eating out
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: of the ocean. Yeah. He um, he was. Um. He
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: went to Vietnam and when he got out he kind
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: of didn't know what to do with himself. And he
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: moved to Hawaii in his early twenties and he was
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: taken in by this wonderful Hawaiian family. Um, we'll see
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: a combat veteran. He was in the Air Force and
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: um he was actually um um more of a mechanic
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: in the Air Force. But um, but yeah, he got
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: taken in by this beautiful, wonderful Hawaiian family who they
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: just taught him. Um. It was a the grandma of
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: the family that um that kind of got him into
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: spear fishing. When so, when you were little, did you
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: do you remember at because you gotta exposed to it
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: at four years old sometime around then, did you do
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: you remember ever registering fear of the ocean or did
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: did you miss did you skip that step? Oh? No?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I um. Everything about it was scary, like we would
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: have to you know. We would pull up at these
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: big tall cliffs and my mom would drop off. Sometimes
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: my mom would drop off my dad and I and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: then he'd have to put me on his back and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: we hiked down these cliffs and we jump off these
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: rocks and then we'd be in like crazy blue water
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: that you couldn't touch and you couldn't see, and we
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: would drift the coast down to another bay where my
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: mom would pick us up. And so a lot of
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: that was intimidating to me. And my dad would just
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: like he would just play these like tricks on me
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that he would It's true, but he would always like
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: look at me as soon as we pulled up and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: he knew I was scared. He would always just be like, wow, Cam,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: aren't you aren't you relieved? We just survived the most
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: dangerous part of our day, the car ride, Like, let's go,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: it's all downhill from here. And he'd always like say
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: stuff like that to kind of train me to think
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: about things differently. And and yeah, and sometimes I would
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: get in the water and I get distracted. I'd see
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: a beautiful turtle or something, and then I wasn't doing
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: my job of keeping up, and I would look up
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: and there he'd be, nowhere in sight, and I would
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: just be alone in the blue. And that was really
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: scary for me. But I'd have to like look at
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: the edge of my visibility, like just to see the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: bubbles left by his fins and just keep swimming that way. Um.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: But you know, I think it was just because I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: was so young, and I just my dad was like
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: my Superman in my in my eyes, you know, he
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: could in my eyes, he could do anything, especially at
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: that age, Like he was just my hero. And so
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: as long as I knew that I could see those
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: bubbles from his fins, as long as I knew that
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: I could see a silhouette, as long as I knew
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: he was anywhere around me, I just felt like, um,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: nothing bad could happen. So I think that helped me
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: overcome that fear, and he would always just really drive
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: it into me to relax. UM. But those days didn't
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: last forever because my parents did start making money very
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: shortly after that. Um, they saved up money to put
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: my mom into a community college when I was five
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: as well. She was fourty years old, first time going
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: to college. Um, two years later graduated, got a job
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: as an emergency room nurse, and my dad's company also
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: started taking off his construction company, and so then we
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: made money. They worked all the time, and we lived.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: We moved out of the shock in nature. We stopped
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: getting our food from the ocean. We got it from
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: grocery stores and restaurants, and that kind of all ended.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: And so I didn't actually take up spear fishing until
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I was twenty four years old. And the fears I
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: had to face as an adult, um rhein during the
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: ocean trying to get dinner, they were they were definitely
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: so you you didn't spearfish at all for all those years. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: it almost felt like I felt like I was really
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: lucky to have experienced that. But it's not something that
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: everyone does, you know, and um, it's definitely not something
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: that girls did. And and so I pretty much just
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: grew up like knowing that that was a passion of mine,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: knowing that like I had comfort and skills in the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: water every once in a while, like you know, every
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: time I got in the water, I try to go
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: and hold my breath and do stuff. But we just
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: didn't do it as often. And um, did you do
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: the other kids stuff in that age? Like that's like
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: the prime social age, right, like were you doing basketball
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: or organized sports for for school where you're surfing with
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: folks or yeah, I like playing in the ways and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: going bodyboard earting, I was on the swim team, Um,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: all these things that you know, we're never quite as
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: exciting as that first thing I did canoe paddling competitively. Um,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: but those were always my favorite memories. And my dad
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: and I would still go fishing bottom fishing for fun
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: and catch fish that way, but we just we didn't
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: spend as much time going diving in the way that
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: he used to when he would use that to feed us.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: And and so yeah, it wasn't until later in life
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: when I just realized, like, you know, that's not just
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: this nostalgic memory. It's like it's not something because I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: would look up the word nostalgia because I felt like
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: I was suffering from it because I really missed those days.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: And it remember it said like longing for something that
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: no longer exists. And I just thought that time of
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: my life of living that closely to nature and getting
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: food that way, Um, it was a time that I
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: was lucky to experience. But it doesn't really cist in
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: this modern world anymore as much. Um. But when I
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: realized that it still could, that was when I decided, like,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: I have to go see about this, you know, And
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: I went and I got my own spear. Um. I
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: couldn't get anyone to take me diving, to say, in
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: my life saw spear fishing and kind of a negative
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: light at that point. I think he had to do it.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: I think he he loved it. But I know that
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: when I was twenty four, when I did finally get
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: that spear, and I drove myself to the beach, and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: I remember I just had no idea what I was
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: doing when in the water started swimming, got super scared,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: like I wanted to turn around everything, and like I
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: had to use little tricks myself, because at one point
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I saw a little white break and I saw the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: bubbles and it made me feel calm, and so I
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: keep swimming that way. But anyway, by the end of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: that day, I was able to get some fish. Just
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: remembering what I saw my dad do and I was
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: able to get five fish, just like there was a
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: hole hole and coole and then pie gee. And that
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: day I just knew like I'm a changed person, Like
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the woman that came out of the water was just
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: like completely different woman. I felt accomplished. I felt like
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: a lioness. And I just felt like to take this
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: catch home and cook it, like this is the best
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: meal I've ever eaten. And it made me feel like
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I was falling in love. And I called my dad
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: up to tell him, and I remember being so happy
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: and just like because he was always wanting to know
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: what I was gonna do with my life, you know,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: like I just um, he knew like I was cooking,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: but I wasn't really into it. I would always talk
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: about doing art and he was just like those are
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: not careers, you know. And and when I finally told him, Dad,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I found what I what I'm gonna do. I thought
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: I would be so proud because it was what he
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: taught me. And I told him I'm gonna go diving.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a spear fisher, and he was just like,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: give me, I don't know where you're looking for the answers,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: but they're not going to be at the bottom of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the ocean. And I remember I was just so heart
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: broke in like he just totally like dismissed the whole
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: idea of it, and when I thought he'd be so happy, um,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: And I think it is because he related that to
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: being poor, to being so poor and struggling to you know,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: to survive and succeed. And when they did start making money,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: I guess, you know, that's what you do, is you
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: become successful so that you can give more to your
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: children than what you had and you can see them
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: go further then you went, you know, I guess as
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: parents dreams. And so when he saw me like gravitating
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: back to wanting that, um, it didn't sound like a
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: very good plan to him. You know, you kind of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: answered the question. But earlier I was going to ask
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: you if you know, you were just making a funny
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: point or being glib when you said that he took
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: you because he didn't have a babysitter, And I was
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: going to press you on if that was totally fair
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: or not. But I'm now it seems like he wasn't.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: In his mind, he definitely wasn't giving you like this
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: great gift to teach you to be in the ocean.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: It was pragmatic. I mean, that's what he you know,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: that's what he says, like. But in my mind, he
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: had to know he was giving me such a great
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: gift because if he said we're going diving tomorrow, I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: was the one knocking on his bedroom door at five
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: in the morning saying, I think the sun's coming up,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: let's go. You know, so he knew that I loved it.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Were you an only child? No, I, Um, I have
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: to older half brothers, but they're out of the house already,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: they're much older. And so it was my sister and
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: I who are just a year apart. And she was
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: always invited to come, but just never really took to it.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: And she also my parents gave us like the choice
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: if we wanted to go to preschool or not. I
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: chose no, she chose yes. So she had to go
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: live with my grandparents to go to preschool. Yeah. Um,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: what other like what other ideas were you pursuing to
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: to make a living? And then also what does it
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: mean to spear fish for a living? Like, just tell
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: give people a glimpse of what you're not selling fish, right,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: So so give people a glimpse of what that looks like. Yeah,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: well so the other ideas. I mean, I knew I
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: liked cooking, and I knew I liked food, so I
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: got a degree in culinary arts and I was working
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry. But I was just so bored there,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Like I just was working with ingredients that meant nothing
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: to me that we're flown in from Afar and frozen,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: and I was making the same thing every single night
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: and just feeling like this is not creative. Um. I
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: also can I also tried to, you know, do art
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: for a while, and I really enjoyed that because it
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: gave me the freedom to go spear fishing. Um. But
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I really barely got by on selling paintings. That was
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: very hard. Um. And I never really knew how you
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: would make money as a spear fisher because I wasn't
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: a commercial fisher. UM. I just knew that's what I
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: wanted to do. I didn't even the approach it as
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: a career. I just looked at like, if I can
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: paint paintings and sell them so that when the weather
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: is nice, I can get up and go, that's a
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: win for me if I can survive just doing this.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: But eventually, um, I got better and better at it.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: I ended up winning the national championships and started getting
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: attention for it, and then um it just ended up
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: turning into a career where people wanted me to, you know,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: use their gear, use their their products, and give it
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: a try and get photos with it. And took a
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: long time, but like I would say, ten years after
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: doing that, I finally started realizing that everybody was making
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: money off of me, and I could probably start asking
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: to get paid for it. Yeah, I got Can you
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: explain a little bit the um where free diving plays
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: into spear fishing and your challenges and emergen like going
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: into that world free diving is how you spear fish.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: I know that you can definitely do it on scuba
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: and do it with tanks, but I find it just
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: so much more in tune to just hold your breath
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: and go down and hunt like that because you're not
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: you're not making all these bubbles and you're not scaring
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: fish away like that, and there's not I just feel
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: like it just makes the most sense to go down
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: on a single breath of air and and try and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: get this done. Um. It's definitely challenging, but um, but
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: it makes you more a part of the ocean, and
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I think the animals start to you. You learn to
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: move different with that, and it just like it really
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: teaches you this finesse that UM is all a part
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: of hunting. And when it comes to free diving, I
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: mean there's there's so many challenges that come with it.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: And I think just taking that drop into the unknown
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: and just leaving air behind and getting further and further
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: away from it, UM and then just trying to just
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: trying to figure things out with this with this time limit,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to trying to understand things and stock things.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: And if you could just stay down there forever, it
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: would be a lot easier. But the thing is that
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: you always you always gotta go, and so it's UM,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: it's definitely challenging. How long can you How long can
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you hold your breath underwater? The longest I've ever held
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: it underwater was four minutes or forty five seconds, But
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: that wasn't like actively hunting at all. When I'm actively hunting,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: it's like I try and keep it around two minutes.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: And the main reason why is because you have to
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: recover on the surface for twice as long so that
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you don't get hypoxic and blackout. And true, if you
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: hold your bath for two minutes, you have to recover
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: for four minutes. That's a long time stay on the surface. Um,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want that to be any longer. So
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I also feel like if I can't bring a fish
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: in to me within like a minute and a half,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: I should probably try a different technique and try a
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: different strategy rather than just try and wait it out.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: And what's the deepest you've dove, And what's the normal
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: what do you consider like a normal comfortable maximum diving depth?
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: The deepest I dove was a hundred and fifty nine
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: ft and that was just like, oh, I want to
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: see if I can go touch the bottom and come back.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: And that's all I did, just turn and burn. But
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: it was just neat to be down that deep and
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: feel that pressure. Um. But I would say comfortable. I mean,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: like yesterday's diving, we were hitting the bottom at about
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: seventy five and watch you go down and lay on
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: the bottom as a couple, and the water so clear
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: you can see it from the surface. Steve and I
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: as your support crew on the surface. Yeah, we go
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: out of those like so, swim straight down seventy five
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: ft of water, lay on the bottom, frown how long
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: and what event? Just so cool to shoot one of
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: those big cuckus. So but it's amazing. Yeah, And that's
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: the thing too, It's like you you know, it's one
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: thing to go down to seventy five ft and hang out,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: but you're not just seventy five and a big shark
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: swims up to you, which we saw that yesterday, and
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: like that can really take a lot of oxygen out
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: of you right there is just having that reaction of
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: fear um or you shule burn oxygen anytime you get flustered,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Um that burns a lot of oxygen. And or having
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: if I shot a fish and it ends up fighting me,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: ends up tangling on a rock. You know, all of
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: that at depth can just wipe you out. So it's
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: um something you gotta do carefully, can you uh you
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: know you said if you can't bring a fish in
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: within a minute and a half, but you don't have
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: you're not like throwing lures or bait or anything to
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: bring fish in, because can you explain what bringing fish
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: in means totally, and it was so fun to watch
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: you both learned that over the past few days. Is
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: because a lot of people think that to hunt to fish,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: you know, just hold your breath in, swim up to
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: a fish, and go shoot it. At some times Chester
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: is just on them. They know he's on them. Sometimes
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: that might work and he's just on them. But most
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: of the time, like with smart fish or you know,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: really nice fish that you want to get, um, that's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: they're not going to stand for that. That you can't
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: outswim a fish, and so if you start swimming towards it,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: they're just gonna outswim you and go away. Um. And
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: so my strategy is I just I go to a
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: bottom and and I know they can see me. It's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: not like it's not like I really am trying not
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to let them see me. I actually want them to
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: see me. And I land on the bottom. But then
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: that's when I just try and I try to melt
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: into the bottom. I try and just mold my body
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: around wherever I'm lying, if it's on a rock or
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: in a sand pocket, I try and just become a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: part of that environment so that they see this creature
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: come down and then they kind of see it disappear
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: because that's going to peak their curiosity. That's gonna make
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: them want to see what was that, you know. And
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: and then I hide my eyes. That's important because the
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: minute they see my big old eyeball is looking at them,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: that can really freak them out. So if I just
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: keep hiding my eyes, they'll keep wanting to see them
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: because I feel like when you make eye contact, that's
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: like a part of recognizing, you know, And so so
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I don't want them to see my eyes. I'm always
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: trying to hide my eyes, so I'm always kind of
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: turning away, and it makes it like this passive or
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: shy looking body language, and that can definitely bring them in.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: But there's also just tricks of fluffing sand, you know,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: just taking sand and just throwing up clouds of sand. Again,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: even that I want to do it so gently because
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I don't want to burn out my energy, and just
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: this motion of fluffing sand, there's sometimes where I'm like, oh,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: that was a little too powerful, you know, like calm
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: it down, Kimmy, Like, don't waste your energy. But so
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: you want to use the least amount of energy possible
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: to do things like fluff sand or just to kind
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: of scratch the rock, scratch the coral um, do things
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: like that, because all they mimic things. You know, the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: sand it mimics when a stingray is feeding at the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: bottom because its wings are flapping and it's fluffing sand
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: and it's overturning food and nutrients that fish come in
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: and want to eat, so it's mimicking that. Or if
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: you like scratch rocks together, mimics fish that eat off
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: the rocks, and and so all that kind of stuff
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: will also help bring fish into you. When you're saying
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: that you don't care about that, you'll come down. You're
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: you're not trying to like hide your arrival, right if
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: you were just in the last couple of days, when
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: you're fishing together, if you're looking down and you're you're
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: looking down ut below you a surgeon fish, you don't um,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, looking down on a parrot fish. Give me
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: the word um. So you don't think you're gonna drop
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: down way over here and then creep in there. You're
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: just like, I'm just here and I'm gonna melt to
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: the bottom and I'm not even gonna try to like,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: you can do both. You can? You do try to
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: stalk in? Um, you do, try to sneak up on.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: We didn't do too much of that these past few days,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: but I definitely do that well. Sometimes drop in one
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: area and then just slither slither, you know, around the
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: rocks and creep in. I try. I try what I'm
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: on the bottom. I trying not to kick too much,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: so if I can just kind of pull myself forward, Um,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: I'll use my hands and do that. Um. But yeah,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of times I do. I stay low and
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: I creep in. Does it work too? Because I always
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think I ever did it successfully? But does
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: it work? To be like the fish goes behind a rock,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: you like, now's my chance? Yeah, so you can really
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: like get away with something. He doesn't know what went
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: on thinking I was going to do that, but I
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: don't know that I did that. Yeah. I mean it's
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: it's trickier than you think because a lot of times
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: they're onto you and they're going behind that rock to
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: make you think they're coming around, and they're just digging
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: out the other way. But every once in a while
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: you can find one that's just not quite paying attention
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: to you and you can see oh and definitely once
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: you see them tuck away where they can't see you,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: that's when you make your move, and you make it quickly.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: If they're not looking, you move fast. I think it's
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: hard to describe. So like if if you're a hunter,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: archery or rifle really in a place where you spot
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: in stock game. The what we were hunt fish in
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: was a very spot and stockable zone. So there's lots
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: of variation and the landscape. There's drops, there's rises, there's
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: there's little passes in the rocks, there's um lots of
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: opportunity to to get behind things and and try to creep.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: But it's so it's like looking through spotting scope when
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: you're looking at it from the surface, um through your goggles,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: things get flat and then when you get down on
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: the bottom, it's amazing how all this how big it is,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: how big the terrain is um and it just I
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: have like a finite finite amount of drops in me
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: like breaking from the surface and getting on bottom, and
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: you're trying to squeeze all the knowledge out of all
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: of those drops to be more effective on your next one.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: But it's it's amazing when you get that the idea
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: of how big that bottom topography is, and then it's like,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: oh god, how do I keep track of where that was?
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: It's amazing to even hear you say that, because I
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: feel like most people beginning at diving they don't even
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: get that, Like they don't even get it at all,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Like they're so fixated on the fact that they see
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: a fish or they have to hold their breath and there.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: It's just the way that you guys were able to
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: actually take the time to read the environment. It's it's
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: it's so cool. It really just showed me how much
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: hunting on land has to cross over because that's everything,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: you know. It's like that time when you're just like
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: on the surface kind of checking out what you can
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: see below and um and planning your job, planning like
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: how you're going to approach, where you're gonna land, what
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: shadows you're going to use, what structure you're gonna use
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: In one like you have to pay attention because some
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: rocks are way too big where if you land right
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: in front of them, think it's a good hiding place,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: but you just blocked out your vision completely. It does
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: you know, good? You know, and you guys are really
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: choosing good approaches and good hiding places. Yea. And in lhunting,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: I'd always tell people that's a good spot to view nature,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: but we're here to kill nature. Like when you bear
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: yourself into a treat and then you realize that there's
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: nothing you can do. It's like a good good job
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: you kind of laid out when you were laying out
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: our our trip. I knew we had a few days. Um,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: you laid out a sort of progression for us, and
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: it was a progression in terms of what we were after,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: how um, the conditions we were after it in the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: equipment we used. Can you walk through that progression? Definitely?
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: And I really respect that you guys actually did it
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: in that way where we started off, you know, basically
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: with three prongs, you know, looking looking under rocks, looking
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: for a small fry fish that that you really got
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: to get close to you and m with a three
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: prong a simple poll spear. There's no sugar mechanism, nothing
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: like that. Just a rubber band on one end and
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: three prongs on the other. And it's all human power.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: You have to hold it to keep it cocked. And um,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: you really have to get close to your prey, like
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: you have to sometimes just get in there, let your
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: eyes are I think it isn't. And if you have
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: like an eight foot poll spear, what do you think
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: it is in inches? I mean you're close close? Oh yeah,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: i'd say, I mean I wouldn't. I wouldn't take a
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: shot more than three ft away. That would be really far,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: really far. Yeah. I just say a lot of that
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: stuff is I feel like you're you're eighteen inches away
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: from it. Yeah, even closer. Yeah, like the spear point
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: is is close. It's not even not even really like aiming.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: You're kind of you're kind of pinning and pointing with
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: your finger. You would be making them very uncomfortable. You've
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: in their personal's face. That's good. But what I like
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: about that is that you have to get that close
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: to your prey and then you your prey. You know,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: these little fish they dart, they dart back and forth. Yeah,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: and and then it really tests like kind of your
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: instincts and your reactions because the minute you let go
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: of that spirit and let it fly, like you're committing
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: to you know, to hitting that fish. And so you're
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: really kind of leading the fish where you think it's
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: gonna go, or just like you know, letting go when
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: you think they're gonna stop. And and then when you
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: do that, it's not over. Like it's just a three
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: prong and so oftentimes you gotta then pin your fish
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: and pounce like a cat. And so I just think,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: like just really honing those like responses, those like quick
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: reactions are are so good to just hone your overall
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: hunting vibe. But then the next step what we after
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: three prongings, we did get spear guns and trying to
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: hold different technique which is so much less aggressive you know,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: where it's stalking and it's waiting. And it doesn't mean
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: it's at all easier because it's just a different technique, um,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: but I think that it's a really good progression to
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: have to kind of start off like super primitive and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: just like instincts and jumping and you know and doing
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: whatever you can throwing yourself at those fish. Really and
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: you guys were throwing yourself on dry reef at some points,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: you know, um to then having to switch it and
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: go to this like much more stealthy, much more quiet,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: much like less movement um type of hunting, and the
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: spear gun will obviously give you more range, but um,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's just a really good way to keep
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: stepping it up. Then, So go on to the next
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: stage though, And also, can you help me with the
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: what what the hell is that? Because we grew up
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: when I was ten years old, I came to Hawaii
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: and my family, my dad had He was a salesman,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: like sold insurance, and he sold enough insurance like win
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: a trip through Metropolitan Life. I don't know if that's
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: even still a company. He sold enough insurance to win
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: a trip to Hawaii. So when I was Tammy came
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: to Hawaiian he bought us a spear and I remember
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: my brother coming in and had a giant, puffed up
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: puffer fish on the end of that thing. But we
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: took it home with us and realized that it was
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: very effective on blue gills, but very illegal, and we
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: grew up calling it the Hawaiian sling. But that's not
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: what it is. It's I mean, people call it that
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: all the time, and when they do, I know that
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: they're referring to a three pronged post bear. But Hawaiian
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: slings are a little different because they're more like these
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: these old style like hinge guys that would have shafts
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: that would just like free fly like bow and arrow
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: kind and hit your fish. Um and and and I yeah,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: but so a three prong isn't really necessarily it's really
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: the term as a pole spear. And it has a
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: three pronged head on it. Yes, it's a poll spear.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: And then talk a little bit about the different species
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: we were after. So we started off going after um
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: manpachi um which live in the holes and have big guys.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: That's what the three prong and cole is on surgeon
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: fish um. But then we then we moved up and
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: we said, okay, today our goal is going to be
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: parrot fish, who and and para fisher are tough to
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: shoot in Hawaii. There's something where a lot of other
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: species are gonna kind of come in and you gotta
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: let them come and you just gotta wait and and
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: if you take a shot at any of them, the
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: parrot fish will go away. So you just kind of
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: have to wait and pass and wait and pass. And
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: that parrot fish well eventually maybe come in. But even
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: the way that they swim, it's like it's something that
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: um it isn't always the easiest to track, especially i'd
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: say in shallower waters, like swinging a gun around in
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: the shallows, it just um, it gets a little more difficult.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, we went after parrot fish and um.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: And then after we accomplished that, then we went after
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: after job fish in the deep. Explain that whole process,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: because that was kind of interesting. Wasn't that fine? It
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: was just so with that we went out. We went
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: out to this drop off. We went out to like
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: this sixty ft ledge that drops off into the blue
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: and um, and that's a really good place to get
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: job fish or or how we call them, you know
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: uku in Hawaii, um gray snappers. And what we did
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: we we brought out some bait and just started breaking
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: off pieces and letting them fall to the bottom. And
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: our goal was to get the uku to leave the
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: bottom and come up and start eating the chum so
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: that you guys say, just go down and shoot him
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: from the surface shoodn't below the surface. That was that
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: was the goal. On when it was amazing that we
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: actually did get to see that. But they get smart
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: so fast. I have to say, this is where like
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: your calm, confident explanation of what was going to happen
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: at the point may have um maybe cost us one
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: encounter because it was like, Okay, so what's gonna happen
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: is we're gonna go out, We're gonna start dropping little
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: bits of chum these sardines, and then the trigger fish
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: are gonna come in, and then some other fish are
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: going to come in, and then the gray snappers going
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: to kind of come in, and then then they're gonna
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: get kind of competitive, and then they're gonna start eating
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: up the chain. And it just like read out exact
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: clear that way, like in a book, like and I
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: think Steve and I were both sitting there like okay,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: so now the snapper are here, So what's going to
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: happen in no time? And I was like, holy man,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get a lot of But I also said,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: I also said, and then they're going to go away,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: and then they're gonna get smart, Like I also said,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: like they're gonna come up, they're gonna do this, but
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: after a while, like they're gonna get smart. And but yeah,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: that really happened fast. But yeah, it was one of
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: those moments where when that big there's two of them,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: but one was just extra big when when I started
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: coming up and doing its thing in like fifteen feet
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: of water. Like if I could have been whispering in
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: your ear, I would have just been saying, go go, go,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: go go. But you know, I don't want to freak
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: you out. It's also new and it's hard to respond, right. Well,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's I mean, I have only recently dabbled
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: in bow hunting, and I freeze sometimes, you know, when
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: the opportunity is there. But the thing about spear fishing
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: is that you also have to hold your breath, you know,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: And that's like, I feel like a whole another level
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: when you get excited and you just realize like, oh
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: my gosh, there's a fish. Okay, I gotta go and
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: I gotta get ready, But then you actually have to
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: think about leaving this beautiful thing called air. That really
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: it's nice when you're kind of excited and you know, flustered,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: it's nice to breathe. Um. So it is a lot
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: too to go for it. But um but yeah, there's
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: some opportunities where it's like, you know, if you're hunting
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: the reef and you see that parrot fish, where yeah,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: you can wait, you can plant you can wait till
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: you're ready, and then the opportunities like yesterday, when that
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: fish comes up from the depth, it's like, nope, sorry,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: you gotta some way. It's gotta go now. You don't
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: have time. You just I think it warrant, like we
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: have to bring up just how clear the the water
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: so clear, it's it's kind of gets not there. I
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: mean it is, but it's kind of it's not there.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: But you can be at the surface where we were
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: in sevent water when you can see the rocks, you're
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: you're you're in seventy five ft of water, but you're
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: looking and if a fish did the right thing on
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: the bottom, you would see it there. I mean, there's
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: things you're gonna miss, but you could like feasibly see it.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: And it was overcast, so I can only imagine it
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: feels full sun what you see. But you can see
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: down that deep and Kimmy is taking anchovies right and
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: you're breaking them in a half or breaking them in thirds,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: and they fall very slowly. They kind of create like
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: a slimy cloud of scales. So you got to move
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: off to the side because if you're looking down, like
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: if you imagine you're in the water and you're dropping
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: something that's falling slowly. If you're looking down the sort
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: of shaft created by its descent, there's a lot of
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: oil and scale which obscures your vision, so you want
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: to you move off to the side, and then you're
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: kind of you're you're peering in at this the cylinder
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: stuff dropping um. And when something first shows up at
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the bottom, it's like when you hear I always talk
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: about this. It's like if you hear a turkey gobble
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: way off, or you hear it vehicle way off. You
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: know it's there, but you don't. You look to your
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: buddy to be like, did I just hear that? And
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: the first fish you see, I'm like, you know, it
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: catches you where you think you're hallucinating, And I remember Cali,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: like you saw one and I couldn't see it, and
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: it's frustrating, but also in there it is. And then
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: you guys are so good at shapes. I don't even
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: know what the hell I'm looking at. When those sharks
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: showed up, I'm like, hey, I know that fish, but
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: I was like a lot of times you're like, I
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, man, And then i'd get all excited about
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: a shape and you you kind of like be like,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: that's not the right shape. And so the one thing
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: that did show up that I like the second just
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: because my very limited ocean experience, a tuna showed up
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: in there and I was like, you know, and you
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: were very much yeah that that was incredible. The sky
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: and he just in there having his day so different
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: from the other fish, Like it's almost like there's no fear,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: just bursting and shaking in there and these diagonal patterns
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: and just coming right up to us because he's just
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: so fast. And I drove, I've dove down to try
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: to like and I got down eye level with him
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: and this sun I hadn't thought of. But he's moving
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: so quickly. The gun I had as a ninety I
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: think it's a ninety ninety. What is it? It's a
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: ninety shafts, but what is the measurement? I can't remember.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: It is okay, um, the fish is moving so fast
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: and the resistance of the water is strong enough you
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: can't track it. Like if he comes swinging by, you're
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: not It's like you're shooting at a duck where you're
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: like swing your shotgun through his line of travel, you
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: physically can't move the gun on fast enough to track it,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: and so you're kind of like in this sort of
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: intercepting it. And if I had had five minutes of breath,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: I would have gotten a I mean I took a
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: hail mary at it. Yeah, that wasn't a hail mary.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: That was every one of us that we were watching you.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: We all thought it was in the bag. And that
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: was justin woke up this boy. The first thing you
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: said was God, oh my god, I would have been
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: so cool if Steve just shot that. Do not like
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: because it was that close like it was, that wasn't
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: I would not because that's not a hail mary at all.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: That was like, oh, he's gonna get it. Like, but
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: they're just so fast that even the people watching it
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: happen from a distance, I think it's going to happen,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: and I just didn't, you know, speaking with Rick Smith
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: about this situation, he made this comparison, which which is
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: kind of right. It's like, oddly enough, the turkey hunting
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: of the spear fishing world, where you get down there
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: and you get set up in a certain direction for
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: this turkey and the turkey's watching you so you can't.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: You can only move your guns so fast right, so
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: you can't position yourself even though he's gobl into your
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: right now and then to the left right you can
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: do like how muchever you get all my situation pointed
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: over that way exactly. Yeah, how do you can? You
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: guys talk about how you know what the hell sharks
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: or what, and then how you know what mood they're
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: in and what their purposes are. I mean, I guess
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: it's just it's a body language thing where if they
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: come in and they're just like swimming slow, they seem calm.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: If their fins are kind of out like the wings
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: of an airplane, that's a good sign that the sharks,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: you know, not really gonna attack or do anything to
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: eggro Um when they are putting their fins down, putting
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: them in a downwards and angle. If they start kind
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: of arching their back, if they start um flexing their gills, um,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: that means they're pretty piste. And and if they're moving
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: just really erratically and quickly and making these turns, um
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: that that is not always a good sign either. Um
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: off though sometimes Yeah, is it a competition thing, Yeah,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: it can be, so it can be territorial, it can
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: definitely be Um. Some some sharks can just be big bullies,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: you know, and they just see you on their turf
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: and they just, um, they just kind of want to
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: bully you and um, and sometimes I feel like, yeah,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: they're they're the ones that just are there to steal
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: your lunch, you know, so that they're coming in, they're
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: checking you out, and they're telling you that they're the boss,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: and then if you shoot a fish, they're going to
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: be the ones to take that fish. And still you
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: kind of have to face the bully. And so that's
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: why even with those, you know, the smaller sharks that
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: you kind of just saw me going down there and
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: just kind of tapping them, you know, I wasn't wasn't
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: hurting them with it, poking them, but I was. I'm
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: gonna interject here because that's not quite what I saw,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: because Yeah, from my perspective, was one of the favorite
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: things I saw over a couple of days is in
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: that you know, chum situation that Steve described very very well. Um,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: two black tip reef sharks came in and we're doing
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: their thing, and to me, I saw it very clearly
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: as the high school bully in the hallway, right, But
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: in this scenario, Kimmy was the bully and she was
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: swimming down and the black Tip was kind of like
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: mixing around but gradually coming up, and they just like
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: passed each other like two kids in the hallway, and
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: she just gave that black tip a little elbow shot
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: basically close. She kept going shark diverted this. I loved it.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: It was great. I got a shot of that, Like
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: she just moved right through it, And I was like,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: did that thing hit her in the head, But she
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: just like didn't even it didn't even phase her. She
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: just by my head. So that's also why it was
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: so close to what were you concerned when you asked
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: her about that? I noticed that you asked her about
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: how it came up to her face. Were you like
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: concerned or you just curious? I was more curious. I
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: was like, how close did you get to that thing?
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know, I trust her. I have, like
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: I feel safer with Kimmy in the water. Obviously she's
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: taught me all that, but I have complete confidence in
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Kimmy in those circumstances where I do. I do have
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: confidence by myself, but when I'm in the water with Kimmy,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: her knowledge is ridiculous. Even when we saw that bigger Galapagos,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: I was just like, hey, that's something I think I
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: pointed to you. Ryan. I'm like, hey, that's something to
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: just be aware of because it is decent size and
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: it was moving quickly at the bottom of that laughed. Yeah.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: Was I was like, oh, man, like, because that one
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: was a big shark, that was a goalopogus, and and
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: the way that that one came in. But I also
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: have to say, we're chumming, okay, so that's a different story.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: Like like I can't just call these sharks bullies. If
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: I was just there minding my own business spear fishing
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: or swimming, and the shark came in and started swimming
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: like that, and then I'd be like, okay, like we
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: really got a face off and and pay attention. When
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: you say big shark, how do you what do you
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: mean by that? What would you say? How will I know?
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: I think I had said it. I thought it was
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: like eight to ten eight ft. Maybe that's when you
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: can really tell it's big. Is the thickness of it
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: is what I could kind of seeking. Yeah, thicken and
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: fast and and yeah, and the way it kind of
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: came in and started eating chumm and doing those movements,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, man, were that shark? I
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, how how are we going to
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: tell this shark that he not the bully on the
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: bully you know? And um, but it took off. But
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: then when those when those other two smaller ones came. Basically,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not too concerned about those sharks biting us because
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: we're so much bigger than them, and I just don't
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: think that they would look at something so much bigger
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: than them and say, oh, yeah, that's my prey. So
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: I wasn't concerned about them attacking any of us are
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: like that. But I was just thinking, I don't want
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: them getting too confident in getting food off of us,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: because that's what they're doing, is they're just getting really
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: confident in eating food that was coming from us. And
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: then what if an uku comes up and one of
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: you shoot it, then they're they're like, oh, we've been
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: taking his lunch all day, this one's mine, and there
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: goes your fish. And so what I was trying to
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: do when I was going down there and kind of like, hey,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: stop eating that chump. Hey, you stop eating that chump.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: That's my chump. That's my chump. No, that's my chump. Is.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to mama in them and tell
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: them like, um, this this food is just mine, you know, like,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: and I'm not okay with you taking it um, and
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: let them know that as long as I was there,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: that is the presence I'm gonna carry because that way,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: if we shot a fish. Um, if one of you
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: shot a fish and you're bringing it up in a
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: fishing distress, that's what's gonna bring in sharks, and that's
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: what's gonna kind of turn them into like almost that
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: frenzy state is like those vibrations of a fish, and
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: distress more than blood or anything else, it just hits
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: their lateral line, those vibrations, and it activates that. It's
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: they're gonna eat, They're gonna take a bite. And once
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: one shark commits to a bite, you'll see sharks just
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. Yeah. And so even though they
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: weren't a threat to us, if one of them had
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: committed to taking a bite out of a spirit fish,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: that situation can escalate quickly because the minute one takes
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: a bite. All the other ones in the name hood
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: are like, oh that's that's a buffet and you'll just
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: watching get vaporized and and so basically I wanted to
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: just show my dominance so that that way, if you
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: guys shot a fish, I would know that all I
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: have to do is just swim down towards your fish
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: and just get bite her fish, and those sharks would
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: know like, oh, she's back, not ours the menal ladies
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: down here, Yeah, exactly. Steve kind of brought this up, um,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: but how often do YouTube spending as much time in
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: the water as you do, like get concerned in situations
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: like you know, it's it's hard for me because even
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: just wh when you turn to me and you're like, hey,
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: you know you see that, Like that's something to be
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: aware of. Um, in my position, it's almost like I
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: may as well never even seen the Glockwell shark, because like,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: now that I'm aware of it, what the hell does
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: that mean to me? Like I don't know how right
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: to me is it? Like Okay, don't even if I
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: get a great shot at something, don't don't shoot it?
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: Or right, I see, you guys aren't getting out of
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: the water. So it obviously doesn't mean that. Yeah, I
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: think what it more meant is we're still going to
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: shoot fish, but let's all be aware. Maybe we should
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: have to talk about this, but let's all be aware
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: that when somebody shoots a fish, the rest of us
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: need to protect that fish, you know, protect that person
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: pulling in that fish, and just and and just swim
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: towards the shark like that's that's usually if I'm concerned,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: I'll swim towards the shark, okay. And I feel like
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: there's bigger concerns more than we usually have with sharks,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of the concerns most times like weather
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: chain or where's the boat or oncoming boats or but
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like concerns is of shark usually isn't at
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: our top level for the most part. Would you agree, Yeah, Currents,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: currents are much more of a concern separating. You know,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: if you're like further out in the water, currents pick
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: up and you separate, that's a bigger concern than most anything.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: But I definitely like you, definitely, yeah. I have been
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: in situations where, um, where a tiger sharks swimming straight
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: at you on the surface and you're not just gonna
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: ignore it and turn around and say I'm not concerned,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and um, or you're on the surface in
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: a great white swimming straight up at you, and you're
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: gonna pay attention, you know, So definitely I'm concerned. I
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: just think that there's a difference between reacting out a
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: panic and just responding accordingly. And the number one thing
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: I think I always just keep learning in those situations
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: is I can't outswim a shark, you know, and so
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: the only way that truly handle it is to is
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: to face off with it. I mean, yeah, you could
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: like just leave and get out of the water, but um,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna ask, Like, if if you
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: see a great white or a tiger shark, that's not
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: like all right, time to get out. It's just time
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: to be hyper aware. But keep doing what you're doing.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: I personally, I think those encounters are really cool. And so,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: you know, Steve was saying earlier, like you see something like,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: oh wow, let's go check that out, you know, And
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: so I just think they're they're they're pretty, they're pretty cool,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: and they demand my attention because there, yeah, they're frightening,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: but they're special and um, and so I just like
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: to check them out and and see how it is.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: And like I said, if there's a tiger shark to
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: swimming straight at me on the surface, it is nerve
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: racking because now I know, oh man, I gotta swim
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: right at this tiger shark, you know, and like I
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: have no other choice. Like that is what I'm gonna do.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to meet you with the same energy
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: you're meeting me. And you're not like you're gonna know
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: that if you're curious in me, I'm just as curious
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: in you. That's how I stand. And and so it's
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: not always like what I feel like doing in the moment,
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: but you just do it and you just and then
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: next thing you know, you're playing chicken with a shark.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: But it's like that's what you you need to do.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: And then when it turns, it's like it gets kind
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: of ticked off and irritated, you know, and it might
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: do it again, but you just keep meeting just keep
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: meeting it, and um. Usually you can just defuse the situation. Um.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: And then it's just it is a really cool encounter.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: Let's say yesterday we're chumming a fourteen ft great white
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: starts circling around, blows you you like. You wouldn't have
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: automatically called it off. It's mere presence wouldn't make you
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: call it off. You have to see more and to
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: figure out what was going on. I probably wouldn't be
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: at all focused on Uku's anymore. I wouldn't be like, everyone,
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: let's keep spear fishing, um, because all of my attention
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: would be on that great white shark. Definitely. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: there's difference in sharks, you know, Um and cal Hang
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: on the chum bag. Tell people about your the story
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: you're telling about the sperm whale. Oh yeah, so that
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: was That was in Um Dominica and I was on
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: the surface of the ocean um and and a sperm
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: whale was was swimming along and it ended up swimming
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: on the surface and we ended up like pretty much
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: just meeting up head on on the surface. It was
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: about thirty ft away from me. And there's a photo
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: of this there is It's incredible. And um, I know
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: because when I asked me how far away were you
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: and I said thirty ft, I was like, I'm gonna
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: look at that photo to make sure I'm not exaggerating
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: and it really was. It was a very close encounter. Um.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: And as soon as it was about thirty feet away,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: it just used its tail, which makes a lot of
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: bubbles and turbulence to use that big tail and use
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: its tail, and it just flipped itself completely upside down
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: and then it just opened its mouth and I could
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: I could see I could see all its teeth, you know,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: even from there, and that was a pretty intimidating experience.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: But um, but then after that, I just gently rolled
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: back over and very gracefully kind of didn't dive down,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: and just dove down into the depths and was gone.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: And later I learned from scientists that sperm whales, you know,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: they have huge heads, the hugest on the planet. And
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: because I was just like right in the middle of
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: its site, it could just it couldn't see me with
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: both eyes, and so it had to turn upside down
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: in order to be able to see me, see what
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: I was. And then they're hearing it come from the inside,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: and so so they had to open its mouth so
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: that it could hear me. And so it was just
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: it was just a way of like shaking hands, you know,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: getting a better look. Yeah, and the photo kind of
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: captures the moment where it's inverted. Yeah, in the gate,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: was that what's the scariest thing you've run into? Like
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: the scariest moment you've had? Well, I mean when it
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: comes to animals, I think, yeah, my first time with
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: a great white in in the water. Um, they're just
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: so big, you know, They're just so big and so fat,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: and I just always thought of them as these ambush
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: predators that he's gonna eat you. Um, and and so
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: I think just like having that, you know, that idea
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: in your head and knowing that like that is what
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: they can do and do to their prey. When you
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: see a fat, big, great white shark in the water
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: with you, yeah, it's it's pretty intimidating. Um. But that
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: experience ended up being just a really beautiful, peaceful one
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: where I just got into a groove with this shark
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: and ended up being a really cool shark. And that's
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: one thing that I've noticed too, is a lot of
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: times the bigger the shark, the more calm their presence.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: It's just and and like the little ones, little pesky ones,
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: they can be kind of more like the bitey, punky ones.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: They just got more experience what they're dealing with them.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know this because you said it to me.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: I know it just from having read about you when
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: you started out in spearfishing, Um, you in some way
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: registered or had the feeling of like not being taken
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: seriously by guys. What does that? Probably maybe I'm putting
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: words in your mouth, but I know that it's like
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: a thing that you've lived through. I mean, I mean
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: I can't really say that completely at all. Um, I
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: don't know if I ever really said that. I mean,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: I know that, I know that I definitely yeah, I
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: mean there's truth to that. I know. I caught a
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: lot of guys by surprise because they just aren't used
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: to seeing They weren't used to seeing a girl who
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: spiritfish is Yeah, okay, there's definitely a lot of guys
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: who didn't take me seriously and probably because um, I
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: was a girl and they just wouldn't associate those two
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: things together. And even if I say I spear fish,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: they probably just don't quite believe me. But um, so, like,
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: what does it look like? I mean, what does that
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: exchange look like? If you're in if you're in a thing,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: is it just that that you don't that you're not
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: invited to go along or you mentioned it and people
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: think that you can't be serious. Yeah, but I hate
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: to even just say like, oh, guys, because because it
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: was guys that that taught me to spearfish too, Like
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: it was it was the guys that did believe in me,
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: that took me more seriously than I ever could have
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: taken myself, who mentored me, who just like believed in me,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: believed in me, believe me. It was you know, it
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: was all men who who took me under their wing
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: and did that. So we're just talking about different humans,
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: and and yes, out of out of like all these
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: different humans there, there were definitely some men who just
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't register that a girl could be doing this um
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: and it just looked like things like we'd be at
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: like spear fishing tournaments and they'd be talking about like,
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: oh man, I'm gonna go do this trip in Cabbo
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: and get yellow fantuna and I'm just like sitting at
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: the table and like nodding my head and then then
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: look over and they'll be like, oh, like, I mean
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about, Kimmy. It's like equivalent to you
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: like going on all expense paid for a shopping spree,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like, ball, It's like, what are you
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: even talking about? Like I was into the tuna story,
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I like things like that, and and and
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: it's just funny, Like you know, some guys are just
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: like they just can't quite figure it out, like how
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: is that possible? It can't be possible that that, um,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: this girl can do that whatever, So they just ask
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: you really funny questions. Then you can just tell that
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: they just don't quite believe you. You know, do you
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: take it as a is it damaging? Is it amusing,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: you know, to get the like to get the flak
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: or or to be that to feel like you're treated
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: as a sort of special individual because of being a
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: spear fisher woman. Um, I mean m I think it's
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: for the most part, like all the uh oh, the
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: silly stuff with the irritating stuff is just not even
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: it's neither just not really worth my time. And it's
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: just like that's when you know, like those aren't my people,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: you know. And and then like I said, and then
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: I just I've had I just had way too many
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: of encounters of the opposite though, of like people who
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: just treating me like a diver like that's and that's
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: what I always wanted it. That's what like I love
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: before about like you know, sometimes just putting your your
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: hood on and whatever you kind of just like look
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: the same as everybody else. And and I think that
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: was it more than anything, is that I didn't want
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: to be I didn't want to be just good for
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: a girl, which that was one of the weird like
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: compliment you again from the ones that were intimidated by you.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: And I didn't want to be like, oh yeah, that's
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: that's pretty good for a girl exactly, like oh yeah,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: she's good. Oh yeah, I heard she's good for a girl,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: you know, And I just like don't. I don't. That's
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: not I didn't like that, But I also did it like, um,
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: the idea of like oh I'm trying to be better
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: than the boys, you know, Um, I that would be
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: like ascribed to you as a motivation totally yeah yeah,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: And I mean it was always sad and like good
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: hearted fun and that's fine and didn't bother me. But
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: the truth was, it's just like I just wanted to
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: be a good diver, that's all. Like I wanted to
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: be and and the guys that um I ended up
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: just like, you know, becoming super friends when it became
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: my mentors, like that's just how they saw me. And
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: and it was just that was just the best feeling
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: in the world, you know, just to just do just
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: to be part of this club where um, yeah, you're
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: just you're you're just trying to be a good diver.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: Do you like sitting here having this conversation like this
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: part of this conversation. Is it annoying? Like could just
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: be totally honest, I'm just like I'm always curious how
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: to navigate this like that sort of question. Is it
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: annoying to you that I asked you that? No, it's not.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: I mean I think, like I think if I first
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: thought when you asked me that though, if I'm honest,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, are you trying to be considerate? You know,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: like is that like a like is that like, um,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: like a polite thing to do is to like look
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: at how things are for women these days and and
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: this and that. I don't know. That was like one
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: of the first things I went in my head. But
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: it doesn't at all annoy me because I think, Okay,
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: another thing I have to say, I think it is
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: an important question. I think it's a very important question.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: And before I used to not think that, and I
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: wondered why people ask me that so much. Um And
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: an example would be that I used to always enter
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: co ed um dive tournaments, right, and so it be
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: me and a bunch of dudes basically, And and then
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: more girls started getting into these tournaments, and then they
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: started like having um like like protesting them or whatever,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: like they needed a women's division, and they saw it
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't fair if they didn't have a women's division. And
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: I was the first one that was just like no, no, no, no, no, like,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: why the heck would you do that? Like are you
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: kidding me? Because I was just like I want to
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: be a good diver, and and I was just like
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: I go home, and I just remember just telling my
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: sister like, oh, man, like I really liked all these girls,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: but now they're getting all crazy and wanting to have
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: like women's division. I don't get it. Why so that
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: like three of us can enter and three of us
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: can walk away with trophies? Like why would they want
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: to do that? Why don't we just dive as divers?
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: And my and that was seriously my point of view.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: And then my sister she just looked at me and
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, it must be nice. It must be
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: nice for you to say that, and and I didn't
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: quite get it. And then she's like, okay, me, don't
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: you get it? Like she's like, you're the exception to
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: the rule in so many ways. And she's like, she's like,
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: dad took you in the water since you were five
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: years old, and like, granted it didn't happen all my life,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: but it did happen for like a good few years
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: pretty solid where I was in the water, developing this comfort,
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: developing this belonging, you know. And she's like, can you
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: know how many other guys do you know that their
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: dads did that for them? And I could think of everybody,
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: you know, if not their dad's, their uncles or someone.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: And she's like, okay, now, how many other girls do
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: you know where their dads did that to them? And
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: I honestly could not think of a single person, like,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: not one single person, And that to me just like
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: change yourself. I was like, oh my god, you're so right.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: Like every single guy that I went to high school with,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: I grew up with like they were the ones that
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: would die because their dads or uncles taught them. And
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know a single woman who like was given
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: that same opportunity. And and then she's like, so, now
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: think about like, you know, it was already intimidating for
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: you to to get back into it on your own,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: but the thing that got you through was those early
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: years of being taken along like with someone that you
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: felt safe with, you know. And she's like, if no
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: girl has ever experienced that ever, And now they see
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: you achieving what you're achieving, and that inspires them and
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: they want to get into it. But they didn't. They
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: didn't have like what you had, you know, and you
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: don't even want to give them their own division. I
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: was just like, give it, give it to us a
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: little gut check. I think that in asking it just
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: or in talking about it, for where it's interesting to
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: me is that participation rates and some of the activities
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: that I hold near and dear and that like participation
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: rates are so overwhelmingly male. And I think that you
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: would you would look at it and find that you
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: know that there's that there's probably some physiological underpinnings to
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: explain some of it right in some cases, like like
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: I think if you removed any kind of like social
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: cultural aspect, do I really think that of the population
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: of people that hunters fishes would be male? Like I
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: just feel like it's probably still tilt that way, just
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: in terms of I don't know, man like like like
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: physiology or or something like maybe I can't really speak
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: to diving. I think that for free diving, I mean
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: I would have to say, like I think women would
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: really Yeah, I think when I get at that, like
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: a couple of things that reasons when I say physiological
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: is is if you look at different cultures around the world, Okay, Um,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: even cultures that hadn't had contact with one another for
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: perhaps tens of thousands of years would develop along these
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: similar lines where you had had that that like the
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: hunting class, like the members of the society that gauge
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: and hunting and fishing. Um, if you look at indigenous
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: cultures and age jow in Africa, South America, North America,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: you want up saying that all these independently developed cultures
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: also developed this thing where it was predominantly it was
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: predominantly men, right, not for free diving. Now, free diving
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: it's the women like Um. Justin and I actually we
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: went to Korea to meet the Henon and they're these
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: like old lady divers because they're kind of they are
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: the last of their kind. It's something that hasn't really
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: been passed on. But Um, for centuries they've been the
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: one free diving for um, for sea snails, for um, abalone,
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: for horn konk and um sustaining their whole island, you know.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: And they finding the Japanese culture too with the Ama
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: and they were like shellfish diverse, pariol divers. Yeah, and UM.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: And it turned out that UM, I mean the story
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: I hear is that for the curree yuh. Actually at
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: first it was the men that that would do it,
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: but then UM, But then I think what happened is
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: Japan invaded Korea, put this tax on on the working
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: people of this island, Jju and UM. And so there's
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: kind of a loophole because attacks only applied to the
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: men because they were the workers. And so the men
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: taught their wives to dive. But then they ended up
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: being so much better at it anyway. And the reasons
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: why it's because they had um the more fat and
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: so they could stay warmer in the cold water, but
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: they also could hold their breath longer. And then so
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: the women kind of did it because they weren't getting
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: tax and then they ended up being so much better
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: at it that they became like they were the ones
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: that sustained the family. To this day, there's still the ones.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: We went and we interviewed these women and talked to them,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: and they're the ones that they they put their their
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: husbands into college or whatever it is. They they take
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: care of the whole family financially, they take care of
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: the commune nitty because they're the ones that make the
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: money because they're the ones that can dive. And so
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: I really think that there's something different about about free
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: diving because you don't need to be like that physically strong.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: I feel, you know, like I probably can't load your
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: gun and cow like, but I don't need to because
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: I know I can bring the fish closer to what
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: I was gonna get at with the what I wanted
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: to get at in the long run. Around. The thing
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: about physiology is I'm saying like, even if there is
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: some physiological element or something just about like aggressiveness or whatever,
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: to hell, right, then I think that we've had, like
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: we've had social and cultural overlays that have definitely impacted that.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: And what originally got me thinking about it was, Remember
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: I was talking to a guy that looks at democrat
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing demographics, and he was pointing out that, um,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: that uh, a woman who hunts and fishes, there's a
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: greater likelihood that they are in a family where there
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: were no boys or where were they were the first child.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: That guys will like that that guys have historically been
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: like basically, oh, I guess you can go because I
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: don't have a son to bring, you know, And I
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: think that that's like a that's an actual thing. I
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: mean we've tried to I I perhaps um and having
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: a daughter, like I feel like I perhaps try to overcompensate,
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: um under like instructions from my wife too. The minut
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: she found out she's having a girl, She's like, you
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: are not going to treat her different than the boys.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: And so to hold up on that, I feel like I,
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: um maybe do the opposite and lean on her a
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: little more heavily or like have hot like have higher
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: expectations to sort of demonstrate how, um, how good I'm
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: doing right, like I need like I want my progress
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: to be measured by hers in a way that winds
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: up putting a little bit of unfair you know, like
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: an unfair expectation, you know. So my like when she
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: was eight years old, like this year, I really was like,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get a turkey. We'n get turkey, We're getting
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: a turkey. It was coming from me very much like that.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: I needed, like I need you to do that to
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: undo the stereotype that you're not responsible for, you know.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: So it's just become a thing of interest to me.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: And then we hear from people who feel um no,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: well oftentimes here from people who feel like like unwelcome
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: by guys who sort of seem to want these this
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: this world to be guy centric or find comfort in that.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I guess I can. I can
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: relate to all of that. I think that, yeah, because
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: I do see like some guys just they're used to
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: it being a certain way, and they're afraid that if
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of girls come into the scene, it's
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: just going to change the vibe of it, you know,
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: And it's just interesting, like on the edge of a
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: recruitment type conversation here and yeah kind of. Um so,
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: could you speak just briefly, um, as like spear fishing
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: as a community is it would you say it's a
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: welcoming community? Um? Is there part of spear fishing that
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: like wants to like mentor people and bring more people
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: into the space or is it is it kind of
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: an insular community that it's like, hey, man, there's only
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: so many fish in the ocean. I think it's both.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: I think you gotta earn it. And so it's like
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna be handed to you. Doors might not
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: just be open for you. You know, it's not something
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: where it's like, hey, welcome, let's show you the ropes
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: and um take you to our fishing spots and teach
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: you how to do this. I don't think that, you know,
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: it is fishing that people are going to be protective
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: and secretive and keep to themselves in a certain way. UM. So,
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: maybe getting a foot in the door isn't just like
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: an easy hand out. But I think that if you
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: want it bad enough, like if you try hard enough,
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: and if it's just something you're really passionate about. UM,
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm just telling my own story, but like,
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: and you do it, You're gonna earn the respect of
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: this community. And then all of a sudden, doors are
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: gonna open and invites are gonna start coming. And and
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: I think I kind of like it that way, like
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: I just you know, um, and I think maybe in
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: a way that's even why I was like, now, you
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: guys gotta go three pronging first, you know, like you know,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: it's just like you don't just roll up here and
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: put a spear gun in your hand and I'm gonna
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: take you and shoot a big fish like you didn't
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: earn it yet, you know, And so so so I
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: guess I think it's a very wonderful, tight knit, beautiful
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: community that I do think is welcoming. But I think
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: it's the more you earn respect, the more welcoming it's
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: going to be. Do you see a similar path in
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: your bow hunting career? I mean, honestly, with bow hunting,
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've spent um. I feel like I
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: feel like I've earned respect as a spear fisher woman
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: to the point where bow hunters look at me and
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: say like, oh, you know, like and and they I
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: feel like the doors have opened almost too easily where um,
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: like you, your spear fishing credentials have have put some
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: sort of like have got to me at least my
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: spear fishing credentials have all of a sudden made like
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: to me, it feels like a lot of people welco
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: at me, welcome me into bow hunting. Yeah, and I
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: think that's nice, But I think I almost shy away
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: from it because I it just sometimes feels like a
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: little too spoiled for me, Like I, um, you know
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: it's really I really appreciate it, but um, but I
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: feel like sometimes when things are just like handed to you,
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't feel right, I guess I could say.
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: And so I've actually shied away from it a lot
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: because I have been I have gotten a lot of
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: offers and opportunities and and gear and stuff. When I
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: get and I'm like, I'm such a big cook, Like
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: I don't deserve this, Like this person deserves this, Like
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: you should really be giving it to this person because
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: I see her working her butt off, you know, whereas
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: me like I didn't earn any of this, and so
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: I kind of have shied away from it. And what
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: has actually made me um crossover, just in this past
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: week was that it was all those old dive mentors
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: that I just speak so highly of who really trained
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: me and diving. They're all bow hunters now and um,
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: and they called me up and they said, you know, hey,
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: let's get together and do a sheet punt. And like
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: those guys they're gonna tell me to do anything, I'm
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: gonna do it, like and so I just said sure,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: and they're like, Okay, have you been shooting your bow?
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: Like nope, Okay, Well meet me at the range. And
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: I just like and I'll just listen to them because
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, they're just like they're my they're my teachers.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: And so then it just clicked naturally. And these guys, um,
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: yeah I met you know, help me dial things in
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: with my bow. Um, I'm just yeah, And I just
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: like maybe I feel like I somehow with them. I
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: feel like, oh, I have paid my dues, you know
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: many times, fay my dues in this crew, and so
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: when when they're gonna tell me to do something, I'm
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: just gonna listen. And it was just such a cool
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: learning process. And and then um, when we did go
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: on a hunt, it was really neat because the sheep
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: that we saw you know, my my friend Calais, who
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: was my dive mentor, he just say, oh, Kimmy, like
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: they're sheep up there. But honestly, there's not enough trees.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: That's all all lava really crunchy and noisy. The only
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: way you could possibly close this gap is if you
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: go alone. I can't go with you, like go. And
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: that was like the first time I felt like confident
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: in myself because he's the guy that he would tell
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: me like, I know you never told this deep before,
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: but today I know you can do it, go to
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: the bottom. And he would he would do that to me.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: And so when he told me go, it was like
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: this nostalgic bliss and like prime anything. I'm like, I'm going,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: you know. And and so now I feel like, yeah,
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: like I I feel like ready to embrace that, whereas
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: before when it's just like people I don't know, like
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: it's so nice and I'm not at all complaining. I
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: really am happy that I have bows and stuff, you know,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: but just like sending me stuff, I just started to
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: feel a little too privileged, where um, it made me
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: kind of even back away from it more. I can't
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: speak to the gear end of it. But in terms
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: of the invitations and stuff end of it, I think
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: that what you're experiencing is, like we talked about the transfer,
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: is that you've hit um level of extreme competency at
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: something that is recognized as being hard. So it's an
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: easy jump for people to make to assume that if
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: you can do that, if you can excel in that space, UM,
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: that you would be a great asset to have along
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: in this space. If I hear like, if if I'm
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: hanging out with a soldier right who's gone through and done,
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: you know, like they became like a special Operations soldier
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: UM and lived in that world and excelled in that world.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: I have like zero apprehensions about going on a backpack
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: hunt because I'm like, I don't really know that, but
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: understand that to be like some hard ship you obviously
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: are really good at that. I can imagine that that
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: would jump over and then you'd be welcome here because
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: it's it's it requires spatial awareness, acquires like organization acquires,
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: an ability just to stay calm and think, it requires
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: an ability to get along with other people around you, um,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: and so it's like easy to to make the jump.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 1: So I think that you're probably just being uh. People
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: are like, maybe I don't even know that much about
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: that ship. I understand that's extremely challenging. If you're that
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: good at that, this will be a walk in the park. Yeah,
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess you're right. And I just, um,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: I guess I never really thought it would necessarily cross
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: over the same. And it wasn't until those guys who
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: have pretty much like well you know, trained me from scratch,
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: who they pretty much said that exactly like what you
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: just said, they said it to me. Um, No, you
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: you've got this like if you said, like all of
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: a sudden, like I'm gonna be like way into tennis. Um,
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know that you would then right find that
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: you would infiltrate that world just because And then it
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: was so neat when I when I did stock that
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: sheep to see how much it did cross over, like
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: it really like I had no one else there to
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: ask or or to blame or to do anything any
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: decision I made with my own, and I just had
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: to look at that environment in front of me, and
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: I just looked for for the shadows in the level.
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: I looked for like where to couch down. All that
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff and that it really it was very similar. Uh. Oh,
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: I gotta ask something real quick to you boys chester Chester.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: Uh talk about your impressions. Had you dove in salt
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: water before? No? I tried, No, really, I mean I
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: was on a snorkeling excursion kind of as we're fishing
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: one time in Mexico, and uh, I remember our guide
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: getting out and like diving down to the bottom and
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 1: like looking for stuff and trying that and failing miserably.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: That was with my family back in the day. But yeah,
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: I was really really excited to try it. Watching you
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: guys um the first day, I didn't have a spear gun.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: I was just swimming around with a snorkel looking at stuff.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: And it is a different world. Like from the top,
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: you just can't, I mean from out of the water.
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: From out of the water, what's going on? You get
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: down there and it it's like cracks and cliffs and
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 1: crevices and um fish everywhere. And I the next day
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: I ended up carrying around a three prong with some
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: from some fins that I found here at the rental house,
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: and uh, I borrowed dirts snorkel and was like messing
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: around so you probably borrowed a little bit of chew two.
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: Definitely borrowed a little bit. I need some of that, no, um,
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I was swimming around by myself, and um,
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: I was able to like get to the bottom and
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: was like trying to like imagine, Okay, there's like a
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: cliff here, so I'm gonna try and dive get to
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: the edge of that and like peek over it, you know.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: And then you peek over and you're like, now I
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: have no idea what I should go after, you know. Um.
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: But I ended up I think, like sticking a fish
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: and I didn't get him. It was like one of
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: the ones that you guys had in the cooler with
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: that three prong But then Steve came up and helped
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: me out got I got the big spear gun um.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: And then you know, I was following Steve and he'd
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: point out a fish and I look at him and
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: sucking water and then spit it out again and point
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: out the fish again, you know, and uh, I ended up.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: I think it was like the first got lucky, probably
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: the first one or the second one that he pointed out,
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: dove down and and shot and was surprised. It's just
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: got him right behind the head, and um, you were
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: more surprised in the fish maybe. Yeah. I was like,
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: holy God, look at Steve and he's like a good job.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: And I got my first fish, So it was awesome.
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: Proceeded to miss uh quite a few after and then
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: pick my head on the surface and go see where
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: Steve was and swim over there so you could load
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 1: the gun again. But it was awesome and I could
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: get into this for sure. Yeah, you feel the same way, Seth.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: You're not a water man. You're a water man, but
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: you like to you like to probe the world with
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: your walleye jig. Yeah. Yeah, I was telling you earlier.
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: I like to feel the bottom with my my walleye
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: jig rout and look at it. But no, it was
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: my first time. I snorkeled a couple of times, like
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: up in Maine on the lake when I was younger,
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: but first time in the ocean, and when I first
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: jumped in just getting used to everything, it was just
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: like very stressful at first, like panic mode. I want
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: to point out that it was u um, you know,
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: like on a scale of one to ten of sort
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: of like stressful places too to jump in I feel
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: like it was over five because we were up in
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: the rocks and there was yeah, some crashing waves. Is
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: that like you're in some like lagoon. Yeah, it wasn't
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: still water. You feel the forest of the swells coming
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: in and in the noise element. I think, like you
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: probably can't relate to say more, Kenny, but like there's
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: a there's a stress inducing element to like the water
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: moving bubbles in the water mouth will kind of make
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: everything more intense. And the alarming thing to me was
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 1: like my mask wasn't quite right, and I was like
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: getting water up my nose and water down my tube
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: and just trying to breathe that stash. Yeah, just trying
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: to like you know, breathe normally while looking down in
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: the water. Was was this like struggle at first? Once
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: kept trying to encourage Seth to find something different to
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: do with his hands. Yeah, I was just trying to
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: like swim. But yeah, once I kind of got the
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: hang of it and settled down, it was awesome after
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: hovering over, you know, being in the air, right, you're
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: over the ocean for a couple of days. When you
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 1: got your when you got your face down there and
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: looked around what was your feeling of finally, Oh, it
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: was just like yeah, you like after beating in the
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: boat for so many days, just like trying to picture
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: what's going on down there. It's so different from when
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: you actually stick your face down the wall and you're like, oh,
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: that's what's down here, Like this is cool? Yeah, um,
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 1: but no, it's cool. I definitely want to do it
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: again and eventually at that point where I go down,
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: start hunting, dive down. On another note, real quick, the
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: clearing part, Like I basically got my eyeballs sucked out
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: of my head yesterday, broke some blood vessels. Yeah, some
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: blood was drawn on this track. Yeah. Yeah, when you
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: when you go down, everyone is so focused on equalizing
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: your ears and clearing your ears. But um, that air
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: in your mask definitely starts to compress and compressing it. It
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: It will suck your eyeballs right out if you don't
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: equalize your mask too. Yeah, Kimmy, do you have any
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: uh final things you'd like to talk about that you
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: wish I had asked about and didn't ask And then
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: also how can people go and see um the work
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: that you and Justin put together and like like how
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: should people go find you. I think I just um
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: more so like curious to you guys, to you and caw,
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: like I just want to hear from you about like
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: you know, how how how it was, like how this
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: whole trip was if you what you feel like you learn?
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: Because I know on day one I told you like
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: Hawaii is not necessarily the best place to come as
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: a beginner, um because it's hard. You know, the fish
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: are smart, like they might be everywhere and you can
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: see them, but they're definitely don't make it easy on
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: you and um, and so more than just me getting
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: you on a fish, like, I think the bigger goal
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: would be like really to learn how to hunt underwater.
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: And for me personally, even though I said that to you,
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: I was blown a way as we just did it
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: day after day after day, and I really wish we
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: were still doing it right now. Um, just watching you
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 1: guys go through these steps and to me it felt
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 1: like you were just learning so much constantly, and I
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: just kind of want to know, like, yeah, what was
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: that like, Like what did you learn? What did it
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: feel like? Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I yes,
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: for me, you know, it's like uh, you know, big
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: win and and kind of a little disappointing at the
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: same time, because like I knew coming into this trip
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: that one of the things that I really had to
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: fight was just like my eagerness and excitement. And I
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: was so excited to be in the water and so excited,
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: and and I was every single day, every like every
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: minute of every day. You know, it's like, uh, Chester
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 1: in a candy shop, right, He's gonna grab everything you can,
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: like really really really going after it. UM And you know,
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 1: I kind of failed at that really, Like I was
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 1: just so excited, like elevated heart rate the whole time,
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 1: just trying to just just really trying to uh you know,
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 1: it's like the old you know, I got a dad
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: as a football coach ort or football coach as a
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 1: dad who was like, you know, go go, go, go go,
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 1: and for me, instead of like calming down and slowing down,
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: it's like just work really hard and pushed through. It
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: is kind of steal what what comes out, and I
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: just need to get a better better handle on that. UM.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 1: But the consistency of finding like very legitimate opportunities, like
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: I absolutely no the first time I did this, UM
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: part of me was like definitely gott Key had some
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: success but definitely got lucky doing it. Um, I wonder
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 1: if I could pull that off again. And you know,
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 1: after this trip, like like I know I can get food,
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: which is awesome and a huge accomplishment, right, So like, um,
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: the consistency of finding those really good opportunities, even though
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't capitalize on all of them or even a
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: third of them, probably, um, is a huge accomplishment. Oh
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 1: my god. But just the fact that you capitalize on
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 1: even like even if it's just one, Like I just
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 1: think that's not that's a huge win. Like you shot
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 1: a legitimateho, like you shot a parrot fish Like that
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 1: was like when I told people you guys were coming,
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 1: Like one of the first thing they said was, well,
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 1: there's no way they'd be able to shoot a new
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: who And like like I just think, um, now, the
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: fact that you accomplished that, Like I don't I don't
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: even know if you realized what you pomplished, because that's
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's it's
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: like bitter sweet, I guess what I'm getting at. Like
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 1: watching uh, you know you ingin in the water, like
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 1: part of me is like almost in panic. Mode of like,
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 1: oh my god, did you like squander this opportunity? Did
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 1: you not leach enough knowledge out of those two? Like,
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: while you know it's it's right here, did did you
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 1: not get enough out of him? You know that's and
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: maybe that's just being in the learning curve, you know.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: I think if my head to look where I got
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: this trip, um you have, Like I don't want to
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 1: explain a little bit about my history with being curious
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: about it is um. I mentioned earlier we got that
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 1: pols beer when I was ten, and we would go
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 1: out in our lake with an onion sack and shoot
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 1: blue gulls off the bed and stuffed into an onion
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: sack illegally, but like when you're a little kid, you
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: can do things like if you were growing up in
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 1: that lake, it would last five minutes. But his kids
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 1: like kids, right, So I've always had a little bit
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 1: of that curiosity about it, um. And I always had
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of problems in my ears when I was
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 1: a kid, getting water in my ears, going to like
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: ear drum problems, my mom bringing me to the medstop
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 1: like and I uh, I felt like I can't, like
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: I'll never be able to spearfish because but my my
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: I suffer from my ears all the time, ear infections,
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 1: all kinds of jump um. And then when I started
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 1: to get I kind of presented my friend Greg Fons,
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 1: like this problem. He said that many people feel they
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 1: have that problem. He's always hearing about people that can't
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: dive because the ears. But it's just a lot of
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: things you need to learn. It's a learned thing. And
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: had some of my first like real legitimate spear fishing experiences,
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 1: and he started to supply me with some equipment and
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: kind of walked me through the gear. And then I
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 1: was in this world of of uh with the actual gear,
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 1: which is hard to get used to, and then being
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 1: in the water and like trying to learn through a
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: thing that you told yourself you can't do, Like like
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 1: I just didn't think I could go under water to
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 1: any real depth six ten ft whatever because I thought
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: my ears would get hurt. So I was struggling to
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: understand the gear, struggling to get over my fear of
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: what would happen to my ears and how to stop
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 1: that from happening to my ears, and then just being
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable in an ocean environment and the unknowns right because
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: I spent so much time and very comfortable around fresh water,
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: but um, there's just a lot less going on as
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: much less it's it's much less dynamic environment anywhere in
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: fresh water, so it's not moving as much, there's not
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: as much depth, there's not as much abundance of life,
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: there's not all the unknowns. You know, I could tell
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 1: you most lakes category I said, there is not a
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: fish longer than this in this lake, and say it
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 1: with like a lot of certainty that that's the case.
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 1: But in the oceans, like ship, I don't know. It's stressful. Um,
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: So I think it for a long time now, the
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 1: last few years, for sure, I've talked about how like
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 1: I want to be a spear fisherman, I would like
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: to be a spear fisherman. Um on this trip, or
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 1: like the couple of days of pretty intense training and
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 1: exercise we had, I finally got to a point a
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 1: little bit where I was like, I got comfortable with
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 1: the equipment and I wasn't at any I caught moments
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: where I wasn't having like a nagging problem of not
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: understanding some aspect of the equipment, like knowing what the
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: lead is supposed to feel like my mask isn't inexplicably
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: leaking all the time, right, and and I like know
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 1: how to load my own gun, and when it's messed up,
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 1: I'm able to quickly ascertain what's messed up. I don't
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: need to go ask somebody. So to hit that point
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: where I'm I I I'm comfortable with the gear finally,
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: and I can finally look around and I can finally
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: understand at least what I need to know about my ears,
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: Like there's a there's a pathway to like get like
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 1: here's where my problem occurs. And sometimes I'm able to
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 1: do it. Sometimes I don't, but I'm able to be
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 1: like here's why that didn't Here's why that dive didn't work.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: I guess I for the first Like there's a day
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: or two days here where I felt like, um, I
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 1: was actually spear fishing and that wasn't just overwhelmed with
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: anxiety and like what the hell is this thing for?
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 1: And why is that that way? And is it normal
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 1: that I can't see ship because it's all foggy? You know?
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't drink a gallon of salt water today because
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: I can't remember where the snorkel isn't isn't or Greg
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 1: Fons remember this. I didn't lose my snorkel. You know.
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 1: I just like God, like I'm here, I'm actually here.
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 1: I'm fishing, you know, And I felt good, man, it
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 1: felt good to be like to have some moments where
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 1: I was there. Yeah. I think it was really good
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 1: that you guys both It seems that you both came
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 1: with a lot of that just figured out which was cool.
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 1: Like you guys both seem to have your gear dialed
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 1: and every because like even um, you know when when
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 1: Seth was talking about just like getting in as you
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 1: get a whole different world, and like I all, like
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 1: I think, was like that must just be so crazy
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 1: to just have your face in the water for the
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: first time and just to tell yourself to breathe, you know,
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 1: like we're not used to breathing through snarkles, and when
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 1: you are used to your face being wet and in water,
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 1: like I would think that just your reflex would be
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: And I see all the time people just put their
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 1: head out of the water to breathe. They don't want
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: to breathe thro their snarkle. They don't trust it, and
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: it takes a long time. I think to get kind
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 1: of dialed and comfortable with your gear then with yeah,
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: this crazy different world, and I guess I'm yeah, I'm
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 1: just glad that you guys put in the time that
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 1: you did prior because you came. I don't know, I
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 1: feel I feel like you're both spear fisher men, like
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 1: I definitely do. I think, UM, when I hear you say, oh,
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 1: I want to be a spear fisherman, like you know,
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I know that you could go and, like
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 1: you said, get dinner and go feed yourself like like exactly,
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 1: even just like found an octopus. And I know that
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff happens by chance. It happens like when
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: you're just in the right place at the right time.
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: But that is spear fishing. And UM, I just think
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's super cool to see that you guys can
• 2:32:29
  Speaker 1: now enter this underwater world and just leave with dinner,
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: you know, very cool, very cool. Can I ask what
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: you two are doing next? Yeah? And roll in the
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 1: how do people find you? Part of that? Um? We
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: have no idea what we're really doing. UM, but we
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, we created a YouTube channel. We created a
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 1: YouTube stop real quick because like the WI the first
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 1: time that we actually met. So we met through some friends.
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 1: Kimmy was doing a talk in in Catching, where I
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: used to live, and and we ended up having many
• 2:33:07
  Speaker 1: many talks when we overlapped on that trip, and and uh,
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 1: there was It's it's funny that one of the conversations
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: was like, uh, Kimmy's an international traveler, international woman of mystery,
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 1: like going all around the world spear fishing everywhere, and
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 1: and just got this incredibly supportive boyfriend, a long time boyfriend. Um,
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 1: justin at home, and you had set this like, um
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 1: kind of date for yourself for benchmark to like, well,
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 1: I thought I would start a family at this point,
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 1: but that's kind of I've already passed that now. And
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 1: there's all these other events and and things going on right. Uh,
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 1: but you know, like as the world turns, it's like married, baby,
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 1: and and so what's next. Yeah, that that is that's
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 1: all very true. Um. And it's crazy like with that
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 1: transition from going from just like traveling all the time constantly,
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 1: see then all of that is coming to a screeching
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 1: halt um with with having a baby and then COVID
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: happening at the exact same time. Um, we I ended
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 1: up staying home and it's ended up being the smoothest transition.
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 1: Um somehow, Like I thought i'd get itchy, I thought
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 1: I'd missed traveling, and Justin and I just ended up
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 1: creating this YouTube channel together and just really filming the
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 1: adventures of everyone backyard. It's a lot of spear fishing
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 1: pretty much every episode. We're going out, going, diving, getting food,
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 1: cooking it up, trying to do it all with our
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 1: baby buddy in toe and um and that is a
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 1: whole another fun adventure and challenge of its own, and
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 1: it's just kept me so entertained and kept us so busy. Um.
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 1: And we've done that for a year now. We put
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 1: out an episode a week for a year, one year
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 1: and we just finished that year and now we're just
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 1: trying to feel where the inspiration is going. Yeah, take
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 1: a great break and kind of recollect. That's a lot
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 1: of work. One episode a week with the baby that
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 1: was a what's the YouTube channel? It's just called Kimmy Werner. Yeah.
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's like at kay, I am I Space
• 2:35:25
  Speaker 1: Warner and on Instagram you're Kimmy Swimmy. I am Kimmy Swimmy. Yeah.
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 1: It is k I am I underscore s W I
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: M M y and uh we're here filming so with
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 1: with with Kimmy as a guest on our show, which
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 1: will come out on Netflix next fall. And Justin all
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 1: the underwater photography you'll be all see his handy word
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 1: which the clips we're seeing good watching you guys the
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: Holy Holy our favorite fish and just the surge and
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: getting whacked against rocks and just like you guys coming
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 1: up with one because it's not easy, and seeing how
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: much you learned in those couple of days and applying
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 1: it to like going back to the three prong and
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 1: going back to small fish. You guys succeeded and that
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 1: was really cool. Yeah, Justin had to wear a lot
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 1: of hats, So I feel like we really need to
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 1: make sure he gets his do here when you watch
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 1: when you watch um, when you watch me Eating on
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 1: Netflix and you get to the spearfishing episode with Kimmy
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 1: all the underwater workers, Justin he was a mentor. Might
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 1: I might put on the credits that I did it?
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 1: Know you guys, do you all have shots because you
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 1: were wearing GoPros and stuff, so you guys get credit, right? No, No, cinema.
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, spell your deal out, uh cinema c I
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 1: N E M A t OW s k I. My
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 1: name is Justin Turkowsky a combination of it. But yeah
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 1: and then um yeah, So check these guys out on Instagram,
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 1: check out the YouTube channel, and thanks and stay tuned
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 1: because we'll you will get up close and personal with
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 1: Kimmy Werner on an upcoming episode of Meat Eater, which will,
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 1: like I said, will come out next fall. So till
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 1: then hangs off. All right, thanks guys, appreciate it, Thank you,
• 2:37:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys,