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What I've Learnt - Elia Donati · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, chef Elia Donati is a passionate young entrepreneur who has a deep appreciation for his Italian heritage and the power of food to bring people together.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Recently cooking for the rock star Harry Styles as he traversed our country to sell out shows, Elia is used to feeding and entertaining.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's a celebrity or a private dinner, it's about nurturing others.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Having spent the past nine years in Australia, he's blended his cultural background with his experiences to create a unique and very creative approach to food service and entertainment.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Eliot believes that food is not just about nourishment but also about evoking emotions and creating memorable moments.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: He takes pride in using his culinary skills to create dishes that not only taste amazing, but they also have a story to tell.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whether he's catering for a small gathering or hosting a large event, Eliot is committed to providing his guests with an unforgettable culinary experience that brings people together meaningfully.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know how it goes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: You host a dinner party and spend most of your time preparing food, washing dishes and ensuring perfection.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: When the night is over, you feel frustrated and wish you'd spent more time with your guests, and I can certainly relate to that.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: This problem led Eliot to start his personal chef business, drawing on 20 years of industry experience and passion for cooking.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: With over 200 satisfied customers, he's proud to say that we have honed our skills and can consistently deliver on exceptional dining experience.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're thrilled to have Elia join us on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the beautiful intro.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I certainly I love what you do, and I think it actually appeals to a lot of people who love the idea of nurturing, which is a big theme of what you do.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So arriving in Australia from Italy almost a decade ago, tell me what you missed when you got here and how it got you thinking.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so at first definitely there was a bit of a cultural shock.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, many things are different.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really like different, by the way, but they're just different.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we we're humans, we like things to be the same, and uh, when they're different, we go like, oh, okay, what's going on?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have my friends, and I could not speak the language, and definitely I did not have my mom holding my hand.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't there, she she's still back in Italy, yeah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she is, and she still holds my hand in um in a way.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's always, always, always available for me anytime for anything, which is I'm very lucky for it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And also I note that some of the dishes that you do were inspired by your mom and and cooking with her.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in a way you've carried her with you, you've brought her with you to our shores in your heart.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even part of the experience, what I say, how I structured it, and the the actual core reason of why I do what I do, it's because of her, because of my dad, because of what they uh allowed me to um to experience when I was younger and you know, in in their home.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what you bring to the table, literally.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a sense of nurturing and caring for others, and really the notion which which you and I have spoken of of bringing everybody around a table is a very special thing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it while it comes culturally, it's something that you come from, not everybody does.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's a it's an homage to that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I try to do because every chef has his own way to cook, to present dishes, um my own take.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's definitely in the food, but also in the experience.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the way I engage with the people at the table, the way I provide extra value to the night, and um and all the service from the time that I uh buzz uh because I've arrived at your house to the time that you shake my hand and you say you thank me um for the beautiful night.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in between must be taken care of.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you clean up as well, which is pretty impressive because actually we talked about that because, and obviously, it's the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival coming up, so it's very relevant that you and I talk about the power of food, and food and culinary wisdom is very much a thing in Melbourne, particularly, but obviously in Australia and Sydney as well, and in many of our states.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you've sort of arrived in Australia at a very exciting time with the opening of lots of restaurants, but obviously you were hit by the pandemic like everybody else.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: During that time, did you find that?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously it's great, we've got the festival coming up and we've got everybody out and about again.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: But do you find that during that time you had a lot of need for private dining in homes?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and how did that affect your business?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there was a big need.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, there was no way I could proceed and do that and do that because um people couldn't gather and I couldn't be in in their home.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just not possible.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I've offered some food and uh I found a job in a local delicatessing and that needed some help.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I went there and I actually learned even more about uh Italian ingredients and Italian cheeses.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: They've got over a hundred cheeses, and you know, you never stop learning, you know, because I'm from Italy and I'm a chef, I know all about every single ingredient.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really, really nice experience, and I got to learn some recipes I uh didn't know, um, especially for the variety of chefs that were there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was what it was an interesting time, but it was really cool that it was on and off as soon as people could gather, I was able to book in people.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really good sign, and um that kept me going for sure, uh, not just uh financially, but also you know, in my in my mind, and um and uh then in November when uh they released us from the final toughest lockdown ever.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um, yeah, it has been uh uh basically booming.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had to uh give up the other job and just do this full time and make sure I bring all I have to my customers.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's to your credit, actually, Elia, because what you did is you took that window of time, which was tough for many people, particularly in hospitality, and you used it as a time of learning and growth.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's to your credit because it is actually not easy, and a lot of people fell through the cracks, and it's great to see that you're you know, you're now embracing and doing what you love to do.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you you did mention that there was quite there's now post-pandemic, obviously, as everything's just gone pretty full steam, uh, the need for personal chefing and private chefing.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And can you just talk to me about the distinction of those two?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because one is yeah, so so let's just just clarify.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Even for me at the beginning, I thought it was just uh a choice of wording, and I liked the private chef a little bit more.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: It felt a little bit more exclusive, but then I looked into it, and there's actually uh a bit of a distinction, and apparently the personal chef is mostly what I do all the time, so bring in all the ingredients for one particular occasion, which could be recurring or every now and again, but the private chef is someone that comes into your house and uh cooks for just you and your family on more of a weekly basis, uh maybe one or two or three days a week.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not uh a fancy dinner or something, it's more like um I just want somebody to cook really healthy, good meals for us.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we're busy, we just yeah, like people have cleaners, people can have shelves as well.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same thing.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so yeah, we found uh some people need that as well.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we we we've been filling that gap as well, but that's the distinction.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's really helpful.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now I do know that you did do some private chefing for Harry Styles when he was here, and I I would imagine that that that would have been an incredible experience, and a lot of I'm sure he was reasonably authentic, but you never know.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: But how did you find that that experience?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did it did it uh I thought it was gonna be more overwhelming, uh, probably because I was catering for him and his um very little crew that was with him and traveling from Melbourne to Sydney.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like I said, catering for them and the food was already ready.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just brought it to the uh aircraft, um, uh took a couple of photos um with uh the staff uh with the plane and not with them.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but so it was not as overwhelming as I was thinking.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: However, um, especially when they landed, um the staff texted me and she said the manager she said, um, as always, uh, we're very happy with the food.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and Aristotle and everyone traveling said it was absolutely amazing.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: The taste of it, the quality, and everything.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: They were really, really happy.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was a last-minute thing, so the Jack Company obviously was happy for me to do that.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so they said, Yeah, we want you every time we depart from Melbourne.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, these kind of things, you know, make you feel pretty good.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you should feel good.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose, I suppose the other thing is really whether you're a celebrity or whether you're not, it's about good food, good quality food, and also just nurturing and to have the right person in your home or your aircraft in this in this instance, is important and you know, to be present, but not to be, I suppose, um, invasive.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think that's something that I've observed in the brief time that I've spoken to you.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: You seem to be very respectful of the role that you have.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for bringing that up.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say uh my dad is the uh business side of uh that I've uh um taken, and my mom is the emotional side that I've taken on.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um from my mom, I've taken this um very deeply.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I can tell how people are feeling, and you know I'm very sensitive to changes and to how they feel and how the night is going, and I have my food on the accelerator and brake the whole time trying to make sure I am fitting because you're not coming to my restaurant where I cook that rest that recipe every single time the same, and that's what you know what you're getting.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming to you, so I need to be able to fit in with you and with your guests.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there might be a party where I get offered a lot of drinks and it's all um you know doesn't really matter what's going on.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's very fine, has to be perfect.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't it's not like I can make jokes, but they don't really go with the kind of vibe, or sometimes uh too much or too less.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta rate the room.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta rate the room.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find that I can I can do that and people appreciate it because if I was to pay someone to do that and I had some friends over, and I wanted to, for example, or a customer over saying we're talking about business, maybe, and we wanna be sort of relaxed but serious about things.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want the chef to come and you know joke with us and you know make sure.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but sometimes it might be the case.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's a pretty much, I think.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think from my impression, I can see earlier that's something that you work and have honed quite well.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of your well, first of all, a very important question, I suppose, is let's talk about like I can see like for working mums and I know myself working, although my children are older now, but when they were little, to have somebody who could help me with some of the meals at times was great.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'm working and I can afford it, but how ex how how expensive?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I know you have different tiers, and without going into specifics, because I know there's many variables, um, but I know you do try and have also an affordable option for people, you know, particularly the regular private chefing.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so how much thought has gone into how you structure everything?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so exactly.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have obviously our uh five-star experience, uh, where there's me and only another couple of chefs that can do and that I trust to wear this this shirt with this logo to do that to represent the brand and what we stand for.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they respect the way and uh we we build the nine and we do everything, and it's a five-star uh sort of experience with all the best ingredients, best uh everything.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's no limit of time, you know.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you need to go outside for a smoke, if you want to take a break, you know, there's no that sort of pressure.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: While, you know, for something a little bit more affordable or maybe more ongoing, it could be that um we could find uh another chef that uh just comes and serves the food that we have already prepared in our uh professional kitchen.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of um we want to differentiate uh also from the catering because we're not we don't want to go against catering companies, uh, we just want to do uh uh catering with some help.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you still get sort of the same thing, really good food served, so you don't have to do much.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh someone that looks after the kitchen cleaning everything, but it's not a full-on chef experience, five-star one.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or or we can also do the sun catering where we prepare the food and uh we deliver it to you, and it's either already warm or or cold, or these these are the main ones.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's variables, yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and that's why it's good, I think, because you do offer a diversity of experience.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me, and how have you found the supply chain and what's been happening?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of obviously there was a lot of issues in the restaurant business, and certainly staff is a big issue, um, which I think is somewhat improving, but it's slow to get better.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: What's your impression about the way hospitality is at the moment in Australia?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's recovering?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is, uh, it is getting a lot better.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um also because I think um this is normal and it happens, but it was going to ruin a little bit the industry if he if he was to keep going that way.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean by that is chefs are now taking advantage of the leverage that they have because they can't restaurant owners, they can't find chefs, then they pay them a lot and more, and then more, and then more, and then more.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then that comes down all the way to us that we go to the restaurant and we pay a lot more.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a balance, and it would be nice if we try to stay within a range and we don't go too out of balance.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree, because it becomes um unattainable and unaffordable, but also it puts pr what you're saying is it put puts pressure on the whole supply chain and the system becomes overloaded if you've got too much high-end pressure.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's a really good point.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me what's one of your favorite dishes that you love cooking, and I know you've got quite a few.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Your tiramisu, which I have tasted, is phenomenal, I have to say.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's I think it's your mum's recipe, or you were telling me.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh I used to cry as a as a kid, cry uh as in um I didn't want the biscuit inside and the coffee.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a good match.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think it was a good match, especially, you know, when you're a kid, you don't really like the coffee, it's it's beer.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and so my mom started making it with um chocolate drops.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that was amazing.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just the cream and chocolate.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that was insane.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, so that's my mom uh my mom's um recipe to make sure it is very, very fluffy and also kind of light considering what you're eating.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Mascarponi is um pretty fairy cheese, which is why it's so tasty.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: But as in what's my favorite uh thing to cook, um definitely meat.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been a butcher for less than a year.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to learn how to carve all the meat and where all the cuts are coming from, and yeah, all these sort of things.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, not because you're a chef, you know everything about everything.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to learn more about meat and I just love it.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't brag about about many things, but I can definitely cook a steak because I cook a lot of them.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I would uh definitely put that uh that uh thumbs up on that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your your steak from what I've tasted is very good.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so tell me also, do you think that the need for home chefing has changed?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there is more of a demand than there used to be?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I've been in the uh business of home chefs for three years, not a very, very long time.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what was happening before very much.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think, however, there has been definitely an increase in uh competition in the past few years.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of chefs probably are realizing it's um a nicer way to do your job.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit more enjoyable, probably gives you a little bit more freedom as well in terms of uh lifestyle, probably a few reasons like that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: To give it a go.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a bit of a competition.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is for you.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: The idea really of nurturing and bringing how you grew up to the table for others to enjoy.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any um particular experience that you've had with a family or a group that you really relish or that really brought home to you how special it is what you do?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is there somebody that you know some experience?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple of uh bits here and there that they come to mind.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um one was um uh which we haven't talked about this, but we also offer entertainment and we can do packages where we we make it more affordable and and also for the reason that we want to uh support local talents as well.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And as a matter of fact, this uh guy, there's a friend of mine used to work with um long long time ago in the kitchen, was a chef as well.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: He said to me at the end, he was playing the guitar in one of my functions that night.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: He said to me, Thank you so much, because I've been here for I can't remember how many years, but I've never never ever been paid for what I like to do, which is playing guitar.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you made it possible.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh wow, that's um that's gonna be something, you know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's I thought it was really, really cool.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes entertainers they they struggle a little bit to uh be able to be booked and um be known as well.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good to be a vehicle for them as well, to be known.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is we work very closely with uh Airbnb here in in Elaine, Greysons, and they they've been fantastic uh with uh with me and um uh every every time there are families there, it's just such a Family environment, and you can see they they have this beautiful home with uh everything you can imagine: cinema, bar, swimming pool, a lot of entertainment.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the core thing is seeing that the family gets together.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they they have wine, they stay with the kids, they have fun, uh, they stay together, they wake up in the same house, they stay together the whole time.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh bonding is what what I like about this whole thing.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, absolutely, and you know, a bonfire, this this sort of yeah, just creating oh, it just sounds beautiful because it's what you're about, and I think Elia, that's that's why you can do it from the heart, because I understand that's where you come from, that notion.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think it's a great way for people to, if they want to have a family weekend away or something where there's a little bit of that TLC and where generally it's not always the woman, but often the woman's running around cooking and preparing.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sometimes it's the men, but it is actually it can becomes quite exhausting.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know I've done done it myself, and I I think it can be quite exhausting and daunting when you actually want to do it because you want everyone there, but you'll also realize that you know it's a lot of planning and preparing.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you, I really know that you seem to understand that, and that's that's a great sensitivity that you have, and it's it's a value that that I think people can embrace.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I certainly hope one day to be able to use you in that way too, because I like the notion of the support, the caring and the nurturing.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely, and being able to socialize properly, we want to facilitate that for people.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to thank you so much, Elia, for joining us on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is just been a joy to have you share your journey, share your story, and I look forward to seeing what you do next.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And please stay in touch with us, and we'll have to um make sure that we keep abreast of what you are doing next.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, as a matter of fact, uh um there's this course I'm coming up with.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to help people through this course, and uh I would be happy if you could then share the link.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because I've I've always thought how can I help people um with the skills that I have, and I think this course is my vehicle to do that and to help people uh bring better food and healthier food, their family table, and by doing that, you know, they get to uh strengthen their um uh family bonds and their relationship, they get to sit at the table together, they get to share the moment together because there's beautiful food um at the table.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: That course, so can you you will um what is the link?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: We can put it on um the Instagram when we actually post your podcast.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone would love to learn from you like you've learned from others.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Pope.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Have a beautiful day.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Elia.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Love Deb.