Latest / Soul Salon with Ayandastood / This ONE money mindset keeping women STUCK — and it's NOT what you think

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This ONE money mindset keeping women STUCK — and it's NOT what you think · Soul Salon with Ayandastood

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Sometimes people think money is a taboo topic.
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My mom would always say to me,
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make your own money so that even if you get married,
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you never have to.
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What do you see as the top money block holding people back?
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The big thing that kept me stuck was this.
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It's so crucial in this reality.
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Money is the vessel of.
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I think anything can happen,
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but also knowing that you can always bounce back.
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Don't allow yourself to be limited by.
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Maybe you know too much about money.
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What does that mean to you?
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If it all falls and crashes, but I'm still alive,
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that means I have a chance to start something again.
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what does the soul mean to you?
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So to me, the soul is probably...
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Grace, welcome to the Soul Salon.
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Can I first just say the blue?
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It's like I'm being given life.
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I'm taking the deepest inhale I've taken.
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You know, when you breathe sometimes and you're like,
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I should breathe like this more often.
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That is how I'm feeling with this blue suit.
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So thank you for bringing the energy that color can bring to us.
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You know, it's actually so potent.
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So it's a delight to have you.
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And I'm really receiving a lot from you right now.
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So I appreciate you.
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Thank you so much, Ayanda.
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I think my younger self would be so happy to be sitting in this room with you.
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I have a big thing about expanders.
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And I think that in my younger years, you were a big expander.
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So I'm happy to be here with my shades of blue.
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Yes.
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And I'm so excited to get into this conversation.
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Oh, my word.
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I love that.
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younger grace is here with us my younger self is here with us and i love that full circle moment
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of like expanders and how when we are then in touch with each other like you are here as an
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expander of this work and an expander of the wisdom of this space so we thank you for being here i
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thank you for being here and the first question i would love to ask you is first just to introduce
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yourself in your own words so i like to introduce myself by three p's starting off by professionally
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I'm a multi-hyphenate venture builder.
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So I focused on a lot of things throughout my life to try to figure out what my purpose is.
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But currently I'm focused on ultra high net worth advisory.
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And I've always said that I think a big way that I exercise my profession is by making dreams a reality.
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So I spent the last three years doing Luxury Concierge and it was all about making the craziest dreams come true.
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But even before that, I think that my big thing is about how you change something from vision to reality through strategy and capital.
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so whether that's luxury concierge or helping people figure out their careers um my big purpose
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so going on to my next p is getting money into women's hands so i believe that my big purpose
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is around women's economic justice and the reason is i think you don't even need a reason but the
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data shows that women are more likely to put money back into their communities whether that's into
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their families whether that's into their personal community supporting their friends businesses or
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their philanthropic efforts so i am majorly passionate about making sure that we get money
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into women's hands through business specifically and venture capital so globally less than three
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percent of venture capital money goes to women's businesses and i think that's something that needs
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to change um and something that i'm really deeply passionate about and i guess where my purpose and
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my profession intersect and then personally i'm a self-declared bread winning pilates princess
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I love movement I love family I love the concept of financial independence and I think that's why
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I'm deeply passionate about getting money into women's hands I think more than venture capital
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or all of those statistics I think there's a big connection between financial independence autonomy
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and preserving the dignity of women and how they're able to move throughout life and the core
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of my world is deep connection to my family to my friends to myself to god and just love
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big part of who i am wow that was so potent and structured i'm like p p p that was amazing oh
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my word you say professional purpose personal it was so beautiful and then where the intersections
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are and this big theme around unlocking financial freedom and independence for women in the world
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in South Africa, it's so crucial, you know, in this reality, money is the vessel of freedom,
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of being able to make certain choices.
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I love how you said, move through the world with,
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you know, feeling resourced.
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And so that's an incredible passion.
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How did you come to that
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passion?
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You know, because it can be taboo to talk about money, to talk about abundance,
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to call yourself a Pilates princess.
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Like that's really a reclamation of sorts, especially
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in terms of our history as black South Africans in this context.
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So I'm just very curious,
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how did you reclaim that for yourself and then find yourself as a channel for this work for other
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women so my mom's a big inspiration my mom and my grandmother um i think my mom also just given the
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times um but my grandmother was in accounting and then my mom's in construction um and she's i've
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watched her move throughout the world and that has really really painted the color of entrepreneurship
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making your own money my mom would always say to me make your own money so that even if you get
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married you never have to explain why you want to buy lipstick I love that I think that's always
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just stayed deeply in my head when I was younger I think I had the privilege of being able to watch
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my mom evolve and improve and make more wealth for herself um but she always made it meaningful
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for me I don't think I was I don't know like I always say to my sisters I didn't a lot of things
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that they did growing up I didn't do um but I don't feel like I was deprived of a childhood so
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I would go into meetings with my mom and my mom would ask me, what do you think?
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And I would make
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proposals.
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And if I was ever asking for anything, it wouldn't just be like a request.
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I would
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quantify it and justify it and give a return on investment with my very like short ability in
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finance.
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But I think that was really helpful in terms of teaching me that you need to have a
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voice, but also there is power with having finance and capital.
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People listen to the people of finance
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and capital um but also if you do have finance and capital it's your i guess assignment is something
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that my grandmother taught to open up the doors for other people your voice is important but
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sometimes in certain areas other people's voices are more important and if you have the capital
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you can open up that door so i think growing up i just always knew that money is not just money for
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the sake of hoarding it and i think sometimes there's this aspect that you have money and like
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you're a bad person or money is evil i don't think so at all i think money is access and i'm really
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big on how do we expand access i'm also really aware of the fact that i may not be the most
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knowledgeable person in every sector but if i have the access i can open up that access for other
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people i think in our household it was never money was never a taboo topic i think i knew a bit too
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much about money like that's what i'm working through in therapy is like maybe i know a bit
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too much or i've adopted too many other perspectives and i'm big on like recreating
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perspectives for myself, but I don't think it's something that women should shy away from.
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And I
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think I also have incredible mentors that have like helped me work through that as well.
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And
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coaches.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Oh my word.
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It's very powerful to hear you speak on this and speak about almost
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how your childhood, your family, like it's so interesting how it all connects to our purpose.
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And somehow some, sometimes people are trying to honor the legacy they've been given.
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Other times
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they're actually trying to, you know, heal from and, and create sort of like alchemize what they've
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gone through.
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And so it's incredible that you've been placed in this sort of family context,
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your mom, your step dad, like all these people who have supported this mission somehow.
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And then I also am really curious by what you said about maybe, you know, too much about money.
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What does that mean to you?
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So I realized this later in therapy that I stress about money
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personally.
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So like in a venture perspective, I just always have this thing that like money will
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show up i'm like it doesn't matter how money will show up if it's like we need to refine something
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let's refine it but there's enough money in the world to go around i don't believe like a scarce
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like in scarcity around money but i did realize that probably part of my quest for financial
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independence was maybe knowing a bit too much about how finances work so i don't think like i
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said my parents didn't keep a lot like my mom specifically she was very honest about like how
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a business can run and so sometimes I saw people's businesses failing um and I think as a child I
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would interpret that as like if you're super prepared as a person your business will never
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fail and now as someone that's had businesses I'm like you can do everything in the world
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sometimes it's not the time sometimes there's no capital sometimes it's certain factors but I think
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it took a lot of my life worrying about finances to be I think that was like a big part of my quest
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for financial independence which is interesting like sometimes I'll look at people my age and the
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people that I'm close to and they like have no worries in the world and I'm like I'm trying to
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have no worries and money is there and it's in abundance and I I think anything can happen but
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also knowing that you can always bounce back is important so I think that was more so it
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wow something that I'm tapping into also so there's a lot of people who are listening to
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this who are very like spiritual and soulful people and I think there is there are narratives
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like you said earlier that about what money is and what money does and the idea that money is evil
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and it feels like you have healed that belief.
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And I do think that belief doesn't serve us.
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There's a difference between how money is structured in society,
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things like capitalism or greed or any of these things
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and the actual energy frequency exchange of money.
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And so how have you, when you are in the presence of someone
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who feels a bit resistant to this message,
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like how do you walk them through that?
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Like, you know, you said you feel deep connection to God, love, family.
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And a lot of people can feel that there's like an opposition
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when I also, I don't hold that there is.
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But I'm so curious, like how you reconcile
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and put into harmony all of these things
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that for some people may not be in harmony.
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So I did say I spent a lot of time
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doing luxury concierge.
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And I think that's maybe where I express more
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my feelings and beliefs around abundance.
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And I think, of course, not to clients.
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I mean, I had like clients that
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I don't think they had any money blockers.
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But I think in my personal capacity,
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it was always really interesting
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to like watch people hesitate.
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And for me to reaffirm the fact that
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there is so much money in the world and you could have so much money in the world um it doesn't make
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you a bad person to have a lot of money in the world so i'd listen to i think personally that's
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maybe where i'm more expressive around money because i do agree with you like sometimes people
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think money is a taboo topic but i would always i would listen to like the dreams of my my friends
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especially who i consider my siblings as well um and i'd be like i think you could do more like
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if my friend wants to i don't know go on a private plane i know people have feelings about private
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planes i'm like maybe you can get a yacht too i don't know and it's not necessarily about the
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thing i don't think anything about money has to do with the actual material thing i think it's
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about the deeper meaning so for me money is freedom and very a lot of the time i'm trying
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to listen to like deeply what are you craving and if that's freedom like let's speak about the
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freedom and know that there are no limits to it um and i think going back to the whole quote about
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like shoot for the moon if you don't get there you'll land on the stars even if you don't get
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a private car like yacht or you don't get a jet like i know people have feelings on that it's just
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like believing that you can do anything is really deeply important to me so something where it comes
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up a lot is when people speak about business and i think people have a lot of hesitations around it
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my big thing is like just go for it if you fail i know people who are like the most successful like
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business venture builders and maybe they feel like six or seven or eight times i think that's really
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important for people to speak about and learn that like failure is not where we end failure is like
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how we move forward so i think my big key around personal relationships and people that i work with
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is how much more can we expand your dream and not because my dream is your dream my dream is like to
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see people when including myself but it's more so to make sure that you see that there are no barriers
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and where there are barriers i think we can work around everything i truly deeply believe that
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maybe not in the timeline that you expect but i do believe everything can be figured out if you
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have the desire on your heart it's probably because the future version of you already has it
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so I always try and keep that in mind that is so delicious I feel like there are people who come
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into our field as friends or as mentors or as a voice on a podcast who are there to be that voice
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of a more expanded possibility of how could we think bigger how could you dream more how could
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you stop limiting yourself and who bring that like limitless consciousness which it seems like you
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give to people.
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And I think in entrepreneurship, especially, especially as a founder, you know,
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like I hold, have a business and that your responsibility to this consciousness or this
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entity, however you relate to it is to be that limitless mind who can hold any future and who can
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dream even bigger, because if you're limiting your business, you know, you're the one person
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who is the mother or parent or creator.
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You are being tasked with actually doing the opposite.
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You mentioned the word money blocks.
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And I think that's something that a lot of people are like
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working through like blocks to receiving, what do you see as maybe the most common,
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the top money block, holding people back, holding women back in your life, holding people back that
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you know, um, around money and what it is and what it can be.
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I think a big thing to mention
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that I maybe didn't say first is a lot of the people around my life have a big purpose around
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impact.
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So I think that also affects the way that I have conversations, right?
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I think if someone's
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listening to this and they're like, Oh, so gracious, tell people to go get private jets and
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yes that's not it at all i think the people in my life the people that i attract the people that i
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come around often their greatest desire is to have an impact um and so i think that changes
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things completely with money blocks and i don't think i've worked through all my money blocks to
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be very honest but a big key that i try and get people to really unpack in anything money or other
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aspects of life is like what are you deeply craving so if it's impact i believe that you're
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attracted to that because there's maybe someone who needs that impact right it's never about the
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thing in and of itself which is what i always try and unblock and unlock in people but when it comes
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to women i think the big thing is always like i just wish women would ask for more like just
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you can if you like sit in the venture capital space and listen to the pictures and i'm not
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saying like all pictures made by men are bad absolutely not but a lot of men are super audacious
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and I think it's actually a great thing to learn from instead of just like looking at it and being
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like oh that's really terrible or I I would look at it as like how can I learn more from that so
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my mom grew up in construction which is a very big male dominated space and I would always watch
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how she just moved so effortlessly she was never really scared I don't know if like internally she
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was scared and never said it but I never ever got that impression I don't think anyone who's worked
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with her gets that impression and so in my life when I would um when I'm starting off an
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entrepreneurship a lot of my friends that were entrepreneurs at that time were actually men
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and i would always ask like what gives you the freedom to do that what makes you think that
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that's like okay to do i would just ask questions and so i think now and how i move across life when
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i come across people who maybe do have money blocks or other blocks in life is like ask deeper
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questions and try get to the root of like what is it that you actually want i don't ever think it's
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a thing even if like your dream is having a birkin bag i don't know that that's like actually what
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you seek and so one what i also try and do is like whatever you're deeply craving if it is freedom
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is try and identify what other parts of life you already have it in so that you know that it's easy
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to attract it and then see the thing that you're trying to attract so if it is a book and like
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that's just a marker of something that i'm trying to track but i already have freedom
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and maybe i'm trying to expand freedom um but if the big purpose around my life and like i said i
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think the helpful thing in my life is a lot of people i'm surrounded by want to make an impact
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if it's like we want to make an impact one it means that we're never gatekeeping from each other
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if i can see an ability or an opportunity for you to create a greater impact with someone else in my
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circle then let's make that impact we expand it it's not for ourselves it's for other people
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and i think when you start to look at it from that sense so not just like the physical manifestation
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of it of like the number or the actual thing if you start to see it as like freedom or making an
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impact or empowering people i'm very big on like people also having a voice um and realizing there's
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a really great investor entrepreneur named debbie with screw and she just says you have to realize
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that you do need money a lot of time for people to actually listen to what you're pitching and to
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make an impact in where you're trying to make an impact and that's why we need to put more money
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into women's hands and so i think if you like think about the outer aspect of what you're trying to
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attract and not the physical thing i think it becomes a bit easier not not like not that there
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won't be any resistance I definitely think there's natural resistance I still deal with like
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resistance but I think it's greater when you see that there's a bigger purpose I also think with
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money specifically I was always raised that I'm blessed to be a blessing to others um and that's
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something my grandmother would always say and that stays with me and I think I also attract people
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who have the same mentality so it's like if you are winning and you are abundant but the purpose
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is to help bless others that's important and also again I go back to the fact that I don't think
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you know everything everywhere so i have been in an entrepreneurial fellowship i think for the last
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nine years and one of the most important things i learned is sometimes your job is really just
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to place capital into people's hands because they understand the community better um it's not about
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thinking that you know better because maybe you have a degree or you have all this experience
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sometimes your only job is like let's place capital and help people use this capital effectively
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because they know their communities best um and so i don't know i think it's a collective
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responsibility for improving society improving our communities and improving the country and
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maybe the world like if we get to that point yeah thank you for that clarification around like
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impact i think the people attracted to this work are very impact driven people and i love how you
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shared that the people you attract whatever desire they have has a greater collective impact of them
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having it or them even pursuing that desire who they become in the pursuit of that freedom or of
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that for me, beauty and money are very connected.
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Just like the idea that you could get the thing
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that's most beautiful, not most functional.
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And reclaiming that,
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because I think beauty is so undermined
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because it's connected to the feminine
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and it's so life-giving,
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like the blue you're wearing today
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and beauty can mean so many different things.
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But I think it's important to like know
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that it is tied to a deeper purpose.
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And I love what you said,
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that the people who feel almost like
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the most unworthiness blocks with money
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are the same people who were it in their hands
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would actually make the biggest impact on the world.
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So I appreciate that, that insight and that foresight.
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And so I'm really curious as someone who's also, you know, you mentioned that you love
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love, you love God.
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How do you tie this work to your relationship to the divine?
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I think that's really interesting because I've been dealing with that for the last eight,
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nine months.
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I wouldn't call it a breakdown, but I think I had like an existential crisis around whether
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I was creating impact.
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and impact's important to me so I'm not someone who can do anything mindlessly I have to understand
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what I'm doing and why so I was a big why kid as a child I'd be like why are we doing this like
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it was probably really tiring to my mom but I'm also very fixated on like my brother should always
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ask why you need to ask why as opposed to just adopting other people's perspectives
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and so I think in the beginning of my business it was like oh this is really great and it's
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fruitful and it's making money and it's making revenue and it's attractive to investors
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but I didn't really see what the greater impact was.
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And I think I somewhat, maybe still narrowly,
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but it's important to me to define impact
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in the sense of making a difference in community.
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So I could be making an impact into my clients' lives
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by making sure that they get what they want
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and they're happy and they had a great experience.
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And that's all wonderful.
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And I don't think that's not important.
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But for me, a greater thing is making impact in communities
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and impacting communities is not just like
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giving people money.
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It's more so empowering people to make decisions
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around their own community problems.
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and how do we empower more people to do that.
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I'm also a strategic consultant.
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So I was like, I'm doing all these things
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and yes, the capital is there,
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but I don't feel anything in my heart.
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I feel kind of numb
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and I think it became harder and harder to like wake up
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because I do think my connection with God
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and one of the things I'm called to is like,
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impact is one of them,
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but impact through helping other people realize themselves
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and like realize their dreams and visions.
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um so i did a whole career pivot and that's yeah that's been like eight nine months in the making
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wow where i decided to focus more on women's economic justice and how we make that possible
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in big and small ways so like if it's that i'm pitching or that i'm helping other women like
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figure out how they get capital into their businesses um and spend more time more like
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connecting other women and seeing how they could grow their businesses together i think that that's
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really important um i also spend a lot of time more in philanthropic efforts but i i'm really
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lucky in the sense a lot of my friends run really great like charities and foundations and spending
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time with what they do so for my birthday last year i did a wellness and wine party but all the
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it was all for charity so i asked everyone to not give me a gift and like for us to donate to charity
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collectively but my grandmother again was always big on like we can't just give money you actually
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have to spend time seeing that what you do matters and it makes a difference and i had a great
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opportunity to spend more time with the remy foundation and education outreach and just see
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what they do why they do it what motivates you to do what you do and the impact that you're making
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um and ultimately that led me back to coming to how do i get more money into women's hands so
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i'm now pivoting back into the finance sector and that's why i'm doing like high net worth
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advisory but more with the purpose of helping see how we can strategically place money into
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people's hands while making sure that people get what they're seeking so of course people aren't
21:46
just giving money for it to well some people I mean I always say I don't hoard money I would
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love money to like make a greater impact but to make sure that you reach people's objectives but
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also empower other people and I think that that's maybe brought me back to my connection with God
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to say that like again I don't think God wants us to hoard money or keep money for any reason
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but to make a greater impact with it and I guess also show people how they could make a greater
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impact and that's made me feel more alive in my day-to-day so I think that's probably my greatest
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connection with it but again always coming back to what my grandmother said that I'm blessed to
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be a blessing and I think we all are in any sense it's not just monetary it could be your gifts it
22:26
could be your talent it could be whatever you choose to do with your time however it goes it's
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never for you it's a blessing for other people and I think that I also receive other people's
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love in that way like some people can just exist and I'm like you didn't know that you're existing
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but you changed my life in the way that you exist.
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And I think that's really important.
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It also just makes me feel so alive.
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Like you said, to hear your grandmother's words
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in this space with us, blessed to be a blessing.
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That's so stunning and poetic and a great reminder.
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And I appreciate you sharing this deepening
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into integrity that you've been on
23:00
because and deepening into purpose.
23:02
I feel like it really mirrors like the collective moment
23:04
many people are in where they,
23:07
especially with COVID and everything,
23:08
there was like this dropping in of like, okay, what do I want to, if you, if I have the access,
23:13
or if I can envision a life where I'm living in deeper alignment and I'm having an impact and I'm
23:20
doing something that honors my soul's expression and gifts, um, what would that look like?
23:24
Even
23:25
just that idea can unlock so much.
23:26
So it's beautiful to see that you are finding ways to
23:29
integrate these different parts of yourself in a way that feels really aligned with the work that
23:33
you're doing and coming home to how you know your purpose channels through you so with that i'm very
23:39
curious is the soul salon you mentioned deepening into what you feel your relationship with god was
23:46
guiding you more closer towards what does the soul or spirit mean to you i just want to say
23:51
firstly that's my favorite question that you ask people i love hearing what people think the soul
23:56
right um so to me the soul is probably the closest that i am to god and where god resides within me
24:04
and i definitely think that that's the part that supersedes anything else that's like physical or
24:10
that we see with our actual eyes and so i tend to think of it as like the guide to my higher self
24:15
because i believe that that's where god resides in me i think the background behind that was always
24:20
growing up with the notion or understanding that when we die we leave everything behind but our
24:25
souls go to heaven um and so i think i've always just conceptualized it as like that's where god
24:30
resides within me um but also that's my highest frequency of love like i always think about when
24:36
you speak about soulmates and not necessarily in a romantic sense but more so platonically i'm like
24:42
the woman in my life especially are all my soulmates i don't have one soulmate so i'm like
24:47
if you can live like that that's probably your highest frequency or like the highest point of
24:52
love that you can express to other people um that supersedes through time um whether we die whether
24:58
we live like when we're no longer here i'm always like i hope you knew my soul well enough to know
25:03
that i love you even when i'm not physically here oh so that was so beautiful that's how i see the
25:09
soul oh i hope you know my soul well enough to know that i love you even though i'm not still
25:14
here ah physically oh my word that was so stunning i love love love that i love that place within you
25:22
and I love what you said about soulmates and friendship and oh that is so juicy juicy juicy
25:27
I'm so that is so scrumptious and I adore listening to people explore that question so I'm glad that
25:33
it resonates with you as well do you feel like you have always felt tapped into that space within
25:38
yourself that God that higher self not in the way that I wanted to be so I think my conception as a
25:47
child around like my soul and being with god was i was always fixated on being a good person um like
25:53
i had i really struggled with that until i was like probably my later 20s and my therapist was
25:57
like what does that mean to be a good person and why are you so obsessed with it when i was younger
26:02
i think i always thought like being in tap with my soul and loving people meant making sure that
26:07
everyone was happy um even to like the own detriment of my own happiness i don't think i
26:12
ever thought about my own happiness it's just like if everyone's happy then i am happy and that was
26:16
probably the biggest ways that i betrayed myself as a person was by prioritizing everybody else's
26:22
happiness so i don't know that my i mean i don't ever like shame my younger self i always think
26:30
you do the best you can with your intentions at that time how you understand yourself how you
26:34
understand the world um but i wouldn't say that it was at the point that i wanted it to be until
26:39
maybe 2023 i would say like that was my big marker where i was like okay what does it actually mean
26:46
to like love the way that I want to love and not just for the ability to try and make everyone
26:51
around me happy and think that that's my happiness because it's not yeah oh wow it resonates with me
26:59
deeply that shift into like good person especially also like good daughter good girl good woman
27:04
and how that conditions you to play small and how that conditions you to like shrink yourself and
27:09
abandon yourself and be of service to others and not yourself but also that deepest part of yourself
27:14
that if you honor that desire,
27:16
it will lead to more for everyone,
27:18
including you,
27:19
because you also deserve to receive.
27:20
I know that something that is deeply of meaning to you
27:24
is this topic of self-betrayal.
27:26
And I love that you've taken us there.
27:28
What do you feel like your relationship is
27:30
to this message around betraying ourselves
27:33
and the ways we do so?
27:34
And what has been your deepest lesson
27:37
in reclaiming that deep soul self?
27:40
So I think I said to you first
27:41
that it's like the quiet cost of self-betrayal.
27:43
But when I was thinking about it,
27:44
I was like, it actually gets really loud.
27:46
Loud, exactly.
27:46
It gets so loud.
27:48
You think you're making small sacrifices
27:49
and then it's like one day you wake up
27:51
and you're like, is this the life that I want to live?
27:53
So I think to get a bit more personal,
27:56
I struggled.
27:58
I still somewhat struggle with it,
27:59
but not as much with anticipatory grief,
28:01
which I didn't have the words for it when I was younger.
28:06
But I just always had the feeling that,
28:08
well, not feeling,
28:09
I always had the fear that people are going to die.
28:10
People are going to die.
28:11
And I think that that's what motivated me
28:14
for reasons that i don't really know i do know one of the things that like i explored in therapy
28:18
was the fact that when i was in grade one my brother passed away and so i think that that
28:22
was like a big thing for me to try and make sense of because it felt like i i don't know i grew up
28:27
always feeling like you can control everything but clearly you cannot control death um and that
28:32
led to a big pivot in me feeling like if i can't control when people die i just want to make sure
28:37
that they were always happy with me and i don't have like massive regret wow um which that had
28:43
nothing to do with my brother my brother passed away when he was really young so i don't think
28:46
i thought that oh he wasn't happy with me but i just always felt this i guess it was my form of
28:52
trying to exercise control and that wasn't my intention but i think subconsciously i was just
28:56
trying to make sure that when people die i don't ever feel like we were at odds with one another
29:01
like i want to know that we were happy with one another um and so i think that was probably how
29:07
the cost of self-betrayal crept in because i measured everything by how happy is everyone
29:11
else around me if you're happy with me then that means we're good that means our relationship is
29:16
harmonious that means we're really peaceful but that also means i was never expressing myself
29:20
um i would probably end up building a lot of resentment towards people which wasn't really
29:25
fair because i was never saying what i wanted it was just like as long as you're happy then we're
29:29
happy and we have peace um but i i think i was like slowly building a lot of resentment towards
29:35
other people and not knowing how to express it i think the deeper part of betrayal was i never
29:39
allowed myself to think about what is it that I want it was my ability to measure success when I
29:44
was younger I would say up until my early 20s was around like do I achieve the external markers of
29:49
success and if yes then I'm happy I don't really think I that's like a key for happiness and then
29:55
personally it was more around if I keep everyone around me happy then I'm happy and life is good
30:01
it was not good it was not good I was having panic attacks all the time um and I think it like went
30:09
on to a very long time up until I I remember saying to a lot of people that I was close to
30:12
that I feel like I lost my voice and that sounds a bit strange when you explain it all a little bit
30:16
woo woo but I could speak of course I didn't like physically lose my voice I did physically go
30:22
through a lot of health challenges and I think that that was just a lot of my stress and self
30:27
betrayal manifesting itself and just also the choices that I was making I was like logically
30:32
I would never make these choices like if I had to look at someone else I would never let them make
30:36
these choices but i'm making these choices and they're clearly a betrayal of myself um and all
30:43
in the name of keeping everyone really happy and i think the one day i was in uni and it was my final
30:49
exam um and i think i just got tired of like pulling in all night and i was like if you and
30:55
it was completely unrelated to what was happening at the time i used to love watching the sunset in
30:59
uni like i love all nighters not the healthiest thing but i do love like staying up and trying to
31:03
like wait for the sunset um sunrise and i was like if you keep bending yourself over backwards
31:09
to make other people happy and to perform for the convenience of others eventually you're gonna break
31:15
and realize that no one ever asked you to actually bend yourself like backwards or perform for their
31:19
convenience so you need to pick what's actually gonna be in alignment with you and what truly
31:24
resonates with you um so i think that is where like the deep passion comes from in it um and
31:30
obviously there are consequences that come from putting everyone first like i said i had like
31:35
a lot of health challenges that took a long time to work through um i don't ever have like regret
31:40
or shame but i do always think about this time could have been better used and i try not to hold
31:46
that against myself because you do the best with what you know at the time um but i do always think
31:52
about the relationships that i entered in that time and i'm like i don't think that was the best
31:56
thing for you but you were operating from this place of like how do i make everyone else happy
31:59
and also like how do I make everyone a star I remember waking up and being like I don't want
32:04
to make everyone the main character in my life I I'm the main character of my own life like everyone
32:09
is there and everyone can shine but I don't want to always feel like I'm an extra in the episode of
32:14
like the life of so-and-so um so I think that's perhaps where I realized like I was betraying
32:19
myself for a really long time I love how you started where you said I thought the costs were
32:23
quiet of self-betrayal but like they're huge you know what you said about your panic attacks and
32:27
the physical way your body was screaming for, you know, boundaries for being who you were destined
32:34
to be, which is the star of your own story.
32:36
And I also deeply appreciate you sharing your story of
32:39
your grief with your brother in grade one, and that carry you carry with you, you know, in some
32:43
capacity.
32:44
And, um, it's beautiful to see how you've with your therapist and with yourself,
32:49
like found meaning or found understanding and given us the language of anticipatory grief,
32:55
which we'll go into in a second because I'm really curious to learn more about that
32:58
but that sunrise moment where you realize like wow if I keep bending myself over I will break
33:05
what do you feel like you needed to hear most in that moment you know I know that a lot of people
33:09
have or are or maybe be witnessing someone in their life going through that self-betrayal that
33:14
reaches its its culmination point where you're like you know what I cannot keep doing this to
33:18
myself so what did you need to hear in that moment and I love that you said that you're
33:23
holding yourself with grace that you did the best that you could with the information you had
33:27
but i'm so curious like if you now could go to that grace and give her either words or an embrace
33:33
what would you say i think i did hear the words that i needed to say at the time and not from
33:38
myself actually i there was someone in my life that i'd known for years um and i think we went
33:44
through a lot of challenges together but also like great things together um and she pointed out to me
33:51
that I have a lot of empathy for other people.
33:53
So I was going through a lot of things.
33:55
I think at that time it was mainly like
33:56
I was in a really terrible relationship.
33:58
And I'd always say to her,
34:00
I'm in this relationship,
34:01
but I would feel really terrible
34:03
if I ever like had kids with this person
34:04
and my kids asked me,
34:05
why would you make this my father?
34:08
And then she said to me,
34:09
why do you feel so much grace and love and empathy
34:12
for kids that don't exist when you already are living?
34:17
And I think that was exactly what I needed to hear
34:20
that I would always put other people first.
34:22
So even in that relationship,
34:24
I was always very conscious of like,
34:26
I don't want other people to know what's happening
34:28
because I don't want them to stress and worry about me
34:30
or think badly of this or think badly of the person.
34:33
She was like, you think for a lot of people,
34:35
except for yourself.
34:37
And I would want everyone to know that,
34:38
like, it's okay to think of yourself.
34:40
It's not selfish.
34:41
I actually think it's one of the most empowering things
34:44
that you can do is to think for yourself.
34:46
And when I say think for yourself,
34:47
I think sometimes when you're an intellectual person,
34:49
you like oh i can figure everything out intellectually and i'm really smart and i'm
34:53
really capable but i think sometimes high functioning women maybe abandon the emotional
34:58
intelligence part um and just make it as like okay if everything else is fine then i'm fine
35:03
i really do think the big thing i'd say is like think about what actually sets your heart on fire
35:08
and if you don't know what that's also so okay like life is a constant rediscovery of things so
35:13
i think so that was in 2023 and then i spent the last few years of my life rediscovering what
35:18
actually makes me happy so going back to what made my younger self happy um or things i mean
35:23
my younger self wanted to do and couldn't do um or maybe things that i didn't like i was a very
35:27
serious kid i was like reading i would read a lot i would like go to meetings with my mom i wanted
35:32
to like fast track life i wanted to be like a ceo by 17 i had like very big ambitions as a kid
35:39
and i think i allowed myself to just be like being in my 20s i was like we're only going to be in our
35:44
20s for 10 years of our life let's just live it out responsibly of course but just like not to be
35:50
super strict with myself and so my thing would just be like figure out what it is that you want
35:55
figure out what sets your heart on fire and if you don't know i actually think you're in like
36:01
you're in the perfect place because you're about to have the journey of a lifetime i think
36:04
the last three two and a half three years of my life have been amazing because i allowed myself
36:09
to just figure things out and where there were no answers or i felt like i was coming to like
36:14
a hard boundary it's okay to pivot like it's okay to make mistakes that was also another really big
36:19
thing i never liked making mistakes and part of growing up was like it's okay to make a mistake
36:24
so i would say think of yourself first um it's not selfish there's nothing wrong with it um and
36:32
i think express the same empathy sympathy feelings that you have for other people for yourself so
36:37
like i am really protective of the people that i love in my life and i want the best for them
36:42
and so it kind of states that i should want the best for myself as well so the love and empathy
36:47
and care that you're able to give to others give that to yourself to like give it to yourself first
36:51
if you actually can so that you can pour into others and not from an empty cup um but yeah i
36:56
think those were the words that it sticks with me to this day wow that she said you have a lot of
37:02
empathy for kids that don't exist yet wow um and so i try look at that like for myself and
37:08
maybe nurture my inner child because that that child exists to me um but also like love myself
37:13
and care for myself and have empathy for myself and not leave myself down like weird strange paths
37:19
yeah i really resonate with relationships to men being the space of self-betrayal and
37:26
the opportunity to shift that integrate that into how we love ourselves and then also raise
37:30
our standards for how we relate to anyone in our life and so it's just oh it's very very resonant
37:36
to hear you express that being such a loving person to everyone else.
37:40
And what you said earlier,
37:42
which was like, if I saw someone making the choices I was making, I would be like,
37:45
ring the alarm, you know, like I would be like, let's get her some support.
37:49
And so reclaiming
37:50
that what is framed as selfishness, because we live in a patriarchal society that wants us to
37:55
deplete ourselves constantly so that we can give to everyone but ourselves.
38:00
And also we just live
38:01
in a world that does lend itself to self-betrayal, I feel.
38:06
So it's a gift that you had someone in
38:08
your life who spoke words of truth and power to you and woke you up.
38:13
And I feel in those moments,
38:16
friendship is just such a powerful, oh, it's a bomb.
38:18
It's just, it's an expander.
38:20
It's really
38:21
powerful when we do have people in our lives willing to hold that mirror and say, girl,
38:25
we can do more like you do now for people.
38:28
We can dream bigger.
38:29
We can ask for more and for
38:30
ourselves so i love that very very much and so in that reclamation of these past three years
38:39
i'm so curious because there may be someone listening to this who's in that betrayal
38:43
and i'm wondering like what you would say to a person who maybe has the intellect and awareness
38:50
well the awareness to know they're betraying themselves but is not yet ready to act on that
38:54
awareness i think i was like that for a really long time um i would always say so i had a lot
39:01
of shifts in relationships but there are people who held me down in that season and i always say
39:06
logically i know that what i'm doing is not great um but awareness is an action so i don't i i felt
39:13
stuck in like how do i go from awareness to action um and i think it can be different for
39:20
every single person but i think my big thing then was allowing myself to let go of certain timelines
39:26
and the expectations of other people um and also saying okay if it all falls and crashes but i'm
39:32
still alive that means i have a chance to start something again and i think sometimes something
39:37
that can keep people stuck and i don't know a big thing that kept me stuck was the sunken cost
39:40
fallacy so i think for instance the big mark of like the dysfunction in my life is this relationship
39:47
that i stayed in and the sunken cost fallacy was like oh i've been with this person for so long
39:50
might as well be with this person for so long and then I think I treated everything like that so it
39:54
was like I was doing my second law degree and I was like oh I might as well just be a lawyer if
39:58
you've got two law degrees and it was like I didn't want to be a lawyer um I love law I love
40:03
what it means but I was like I don't want to do this and I I remember I knew that like the first
40:09
three weeks of my second law degree and I said my friend's an attorney and I said I don't know I
40:13
don't think I want to do this but I never felt the courage to say that um and the day that my friend
40:19
said to me like you have a lot of empathy for people that aren't alive yet i was like i think
40:23
i should have empathy for myself and the quicker i can break what doesn't actually like what isn't
40:29
for me and release what isn't for me the quicker i can get into what is so i think as daunting as
40:34
it can be to feel like oh i'm in this place but i don't know what to do about it the quicker you
40:39
let go of what's not meant for you even if it means you feel like you're going to be left with
40:42
nothing which i don't think you're left with nothing but if you feel like you're going to
40:45
be left with nothing that's great that means there's space for all the good to come in but
40:49
if you're holding on so tightly to what's not for you you're not even letting space for like
40:53
even like a little bit of magic to happen you're so fixated on like how can i make this happen and
40:58
work for me and sometimes like that's actually not what's meant to work for you um we can take
41:02
the lessons from this and apply them into the rest of our lives and the quicker we get there
41:07
the quicker we can get into what is for us um so i think that was a realization i had to come to
41:13
it also meant leaving a lot of friendship so and as much as i speak about friendship i think
41:18
friendship is one of the greatest things in this world like my sisters know that i love them with
41:22
my whole whole heart um and my brother and my other brothers but i i think i did have to go
41:30
for a period with like being like it's okay if i don't have anyone to navigate me through this
41:34
um and i i was saying this to my sister the other day i was like had i not let go of what wasn't for
41:39
me i would have never met you guys i was like i i would have never had that experience i couldn't
41:43
of even in like my mind conceptualized those friendships so i always think about ephesians
41:48
320 when i think of my friendships which is like god will give you abundantly more than you can ask
41:52
or imagine um and i was like had i not let go and i was holding on to what i think this is like
41:57
functional in my life i would have never met the people that i have in my life now
42:00
but i think you have to be okay with losing everything and what i mean by that is just
42:05
losing things the way that you see them right now um and recognize that there's gonna be a lot
42:10
of greatness that comes even if it doesn't come immediately but i think just like giving the step
42:14
of like okay god or whoever your creator is or whatever you believe in i'm willing to genuinely
42:19
let this go you're gonna attract more um and i danced through a lot of it like i really believe
42:27
people have gotten a bit too serious so my younger sister's sister who's also my younger sister
42:31
always says i think people take themselves too seriously maybe everyone doesn't like to dance
42:36
but i'm like you get up on a couch and dance like dance it away i feel like you heal through a lot
42:41
of that but just be willing to let everything go and know that you can restart something way better
42:48
um i even say that sometimes in business when it's like we have to like sometimes you're holding
42:52
on to a business again for sunken cause fallacy reasons well that's been it for me and it's
42:56
sometimes like if you let go we can actually maybe make something a bit greater so i would say like
43:01
allow yourself to let go like and be okay with it and trust like and be okay with uncertainty i think
43:08
that's another thing is sometimes people are holding on to certain things because they're
43:11
certain about it but i'm also like i have a big thing about humans where i'm like you actually
43:15
can't be certain about humans when you commit to someone in whatever capacity you're committing to
43:20
like being with someone through all the changes in their life and they're also committing to be
43:23
with you through all the changes in their life so there's no uncertainty and really like there's no
43:27
actual certainty in relationships um and if that's all you're holding on to like i fear just let go
43:32
like just just let go let go i always say to my friends give it a year come back to me in a year
43:37
so sometimes my friends are in bad relationships i say leave don't date anyone for a year let's
43:42
have this conversation again in a year and tell me and no one's ever come back and said oh that
43:46
was terrible everyone's like oh this was great i started a business i did this i had time for this
43:51
I always say let go give it a year give it to whoever your creator is come back in a year if
43:57
if you watch this episode and you're like I did it for you and I hated it I'll sit with you like
44:01
let's let's work it out together but I'm like let go of everything and give it a year and let's see
44:07
and I always think it works out for the better for sure for sure for sure oh my word and leaping
44:14
into the unknown I love what you said about it's gonna allow it's going to if you let go
44:19
something that is in deeper alignment and integrity will show up.
44:23
There's so much magic
44:23
you just shared that I, in this whole conversation, there's so much more that you are, that you are
44:28
giving that a person can possibly mirror or reflect back.
44:31
But something that really, I just
44:33
feel so deeply into is friendship and what you said about your friends being your soulmates and
44:38
your soul sisters and your deep love for them and what they've given you.
44:43
And what you said about
44:45
you received more than you ever thought was possible.
44:48
Like we're not taught to dream of
44:49
friendship.
44:49
We're not taught that it can be the most expansive, delicious, sacred space in our
44:54
lives.
44:55
And so I just love that what you shared and you shared a verse about this around just how,
45:00
you know, your higher power, your creator, your universe, your cosmos can give you more than
45:04
you've ever imagined is possible.
45:05
It just, Ooh, it's so, so juicy.
45:08
And then something else you
45:09
mentioned quite a few times, which for anyone who doesn't know, can you explain to them what
45:12
the sunk cost fallacy is and how that shows up in our lives in terms of how we betray ourselves
45:19
yeah so i'm probably not giving like the very clear like webster dictionary definition but it's
45:24
basically a theory that sometimes we feel called to hold on to things just because we've held on
45:29
to things for really long so if you've been in a relationship let's say you've been in a relationship
45:32
for one year and then you're like okay well i've been with this person for a year and instead of
45:36
going out to find another person i'd rather just spend my the rest of my life with this person i
45:40
think that's how it deeply showed up for me in friendships and relationships that well the
45:45
relationship i was in at the time um but also my timelines that i was like super attached to and
45:50
that came in the form of my career so i think i was six when i decided i wanted to be a lawyer
45:55
and then i held on to that for years even though i actually did not want to be a lawyer um and so i
46:00
think it's just this idea of holding on to things even when you can see and feel that it's not in
46:05
alignment just because you told yourself that this is the story for your life and you've done it for
46:09
so many years um and so i'm not gonna let go of this i'm just gonna hold on to it even with
46:14
businesses sometimes people will be like oh i have this business for 10 years so i'm gonna keep going
46:17
um and maybe those 10 years were great but maybe it's time to like unlock and go on to something
46:23
different so that's how it's grown up for me it's been mostly in my commitment to timelines that
46:29
actually no longer serve my highest self um and to relationships that also no longer serve my
46:33
highest self because i'm really fixed i was always really big on like well if i'm i'm a long-time
46:39
friends so like a lot of my long-time friendships are like 12 years 14 years wow um and so when i
46:44
had to let go of certain people that i'd known for so much of my life i don't know i think i
46:49
also used to measure time as like a qualifier to be like if you can know someone for this song like
46:53
i don't know what i thought it meant but i was like that means it's a good thing and sometimes
46:57
it's not like sometimes people hold you through a season and i think you can respect and love that
47:02
for what it is and honor that version of yourself but also honor that you're a different person and
47:06
it doesn't resonate totally and like i said i think relationships specifically are actually a
47:12
commitment of being with someone who's going to change constantly and sometimes it's just like
47:17
i may not resonate with your change that doesn't make me a bad person or you a bad person i think
47:21
we should just be free to like let it go so it is the concept of holding on to things based on like
47:27
how much time you spent on them love it oh my word uh um you mentioned expectations and how we
47:34
you know bend ourselves in order to
47:39
meet expectations that are not necessarily our own yeah and
47:50
I'm curious what an expectation that you've been invited to let go of has been
47:58
there are probably so many there's probably so many um i think the biggest one that comes to mind
48:08
but probably because it resonates with us collectively i think within my friendship
48:12
group is the expectations that come with being expansion of your family um which i think a lot
48:19
of people don't really explore um or i think people don't explore with a lot of nuance um
48:27
and i think there's gratitude for everything that people have and like what your parents can give
48:31
you and how far your parents have gotten you and i think acknowledging that and the privileges that
48:35
come with that i don't think we should be like averse to recognizing that but i also think
48:40
the expectations that come with like oh you are an expansion of a name there was a really good
48:46
episode done um podcast episode with kanye and gugu where they spoke about like expectations
48:51
around surnames um and what that really means and i think that's like a great deep dive to go on
48:56
but i think a really big like expectation i'm trying to let go of is like just be yourself
49:02
i don't know like becoming my own person whatever that means um and honoring what's most in alignment
49:08
because i think that when you honor what's most in alignment you will end up like that has a net
49:13
positive benefit on everyone everyone but if i feel so compelled to go down a specific timeline
49:19
or path with like this whole concept that i'm honoring someone else or like i'm extending
49:25
i think like legacy politics are really interesting to me um i don't know maybe it's because i don't
49:31
have a kid but i'm like whatever my kid wants to do do i just like pray that it's like legal and
49:35
in alignment what's right um and that you honor yourself and that you're kind to people um not
49:42
so much about like what is it that you do i don't i i don't i don't fixate so much on that so i think
49:47
that's like the big expectation that i'm trying to let go of um i also think a lot of us or maybe
49:56
just i yeah i think a lot of people are raised with like respect and honor your parents which
49:59
is really important i i don't i'm not saying like let's disregard that but i i also think
50:06
like striking a balance between realizing and coming into alignment with who you are and not
50:11
feeling the pressure of like i must comply with like a certain timeline or expectation to like
50:17
meet and make other people in my life happy um and so i i think the family thing is a really big i
50:22
think it's what i said to you where i said within my friendship group we had a really big time of
50:27
like we don't want to be perceived by anyone else and i think that came from like sometimes people
50:31
come in with expectations of who you are or they think they know who you are because they know
50:35
certain things about like your family or that sort of thing and it's like well maybe i'm not that i
50:40
don't know like maybe my whole family likes oranges but i like apples wow um and not even
50:45
that i want to do anything with it when i was really young my mom's not a big journaler but
50:48
when i was young my mom wrote like a tips book for me and it was just like all these random tips in
50:54
life and it was like safety tips and just like growing up tips she's not a big i don't know what
50:59
i i'd actually be fascinated to ask her what made her write all that out i don't know if she's like
51:03
writing out for herself and then gave it to me um but i treat my journals in that way where it's
51:08
like it's a lot of life lessons so my journaling isn't like i i went down to town and samantha
51:13
like did this it's not i never write anyone's name it has nobody's name in it it's more so
51:18
like what lessons did i take from this so when i am in the sky i don't know i always just see it
51:23
as like yes you're on earth but you're not you're not really right so the possibilities are endless
51:29
like what is like if you could have anything you want in this moment like what is it and why so
51:34
like my big things are always more on the why like what and sometimes i think that's a big
51:38
indicator to what i'm craving um so if i'm like i want to do this then it's like why um something i
51:45
an exercise i tend to do and i don't do it as often but i used to do it a lot when i would travel was
51:50
write out a dream day in my life um but not a dream day in my life on like holiday it was more
51:55
so dream day in my life my everyday life yes i don't like my day to look the same every day so
52:01
I'll write out like four or five versions.
52:03
And then a big thing for me is like,
52:05
I'll reflect back on that.
52:08
And then I'll ask myself why that whole plane ride,
52:11
like,
52:11
what does it mean that I want to wake up and go to Pilates?
52:13
Like,
52:14
what is the deeper like meaning of that or that I want to be able to come
52:18
home and have lunch?
52:19
I don't,
52:19
I don't want to sit in an office the whole day,
52:21
or maybe I do want to sit in the whole office in this point in my life.
52:24
And just think about that.
52:26
And then another thing I like to do in planes,
52:28
I don't always have the time,
52:29
but I will take that time to write future letters to myself even if I don't fly I do try to get into
52:35
the habit of writing myself a future letter every month um but in the plane like that's the best
52:40
time to do it and then I'm always just like one day you have all these things to look back on
52:44
um I also think I watched too many like I watched 50 first dates too many times and so maybe it was
52:50
like informed by the fact that one day you may lose your memory oh and so like come back and
52:53
read this but no one's name is in it so I'm like it would just be lessons I guess and like what I
52:58
want to know how i felt about people um i just want to know who i'm talking about because i don't
53:03
write anyone's name yes how do you define a future letter so when i started it was more so i was in a
53:10
rut in my life um and at the time i think i was just trying to like every time i write i hope
53:16
you're out of this relationship like i hope you're living life and you're out of this relationship
53:20
and you're having so much fun um sometimes i'll look at my goals um so i'll date it to certain
53:27
times i'll always write myself a future letter for my next birthday i'll always write myself
53:30
a future letter for um new year's i'll always write myself random ones throughout the year
53:37
and so a lot of times it will it used to be very goals driven like i hope by the time you're
53:42
reading this you've done that um i try not to put as much pressure on myself now so now it'll
53:48
actually just be like what am i loving so i have this um document in my notes where every month
53:53
I'll write like what I'm loving what are the songs that I'm really liking right now what emojis do I
53:57
use it's like all the random fun things that you you're not really gonna remember but I want to
54:02
remember what were my favorite moments this month what was profound so I'll have that as a notes
54:08
a document in my notes app and then I just translate that into a letter to be like oh this
54:13
is what you really loved um I use future me so it's all digital I don't write that out physically
54:19
and sort of like a
54:20
momentum and just to come back on
54:22
and I'm like oh this is what I really I love music
54:24
and music is such a big part of my life so it's always
54:26
like I just want to feel like I'm in this
54:28
area again and I'll listen
54:30
to that and yeah it's just more like
54:32
this is what I'm loving in my life right now
54:35
this is what I'm thinking about so sometimes
54:37
I don't always finish my thoughts
54:39
and so a big important thing for me is to
54:40
be like I'm really curious about this
54:42
right now I don't know where this is going to go
54:44
maybe this is something I act on maybe it's not
54:46
something i act on um i try not to place too much pressure on myself right now so it's like if i
54:51
write this in a future letter and maybe i'm getting it back in six months maybe in six months i've
54:55
learned enough lessons or whatever i need and i'm now at the perfect time to act on what i was
54:59
curious about um but it really is just like a reminder of what is happening in life right now
55:05
um what's fun what do i not like um the greatest thing is also if i'm struggling with something
55:10
and i say like oh like this is a challenge in my life and then i read it and i'm like oh this is
55:15
no longer challenging my life and like great you can overcome things yes um so that's how so it
55:21
used to be very goals-based and i guess that's a way that you could do it but now it's more like
55:26
what's happening in life right now like tell tell your future self like what's happening right now
55:31
and then it's always like oh i now have the answers to whatever's happening
55:34
then yeah you are nourishing us with such juicy practices the dream life like a day in your dream
55:40
life and also what you said about like the why like why do i want that what does that represent
55:45
to me.
55:45
I'll never forget one of my friends who wants to leave her corporate job.
55:48
She was like,
55:49
you know what I want?
55:50
I just want to be able to go outside in the middle of the day.
55:54
Like I want to
55:54
see 12 PM outside an office.
55:57
I want to go to Pilates at 12.
55:58
I want to, and it was about the
56:00
deeper why.
56:01
And then also what you're sharing about, what am I loving right now?
56:04
I love keeping
56:04
track of all the things that you're loving.
56:06
And I really enjoy the idea of this digital diary of
56:10
love and of magic and of being able to look back on that and then the future me practice is the app
56:16
called future me it's a website i don't think a website i don't know that it has an app and then
56:20
you pay like a little bit a month it's not even i don't think it's my day i think you pay annually
56:25
now to the time capsule yeah i you used to never pay for it i don't know but like
56:31
businesses have costs yeah totally capitalism like i get why they have to charge you but it's
56:36
not that i don't know if it's like two dollars like for a year subscription something you did
56:40
mention that i know a lot of people watching this or listening to this would relate to is your
56:45
diagnosis of adhd at 23 if there's anything you feel called to share or i just feel like it's an
56:51
important cultural conversation and so i just wanted to create space so i my diagnosis is
56:58
really interesting but i think the one thing i do wish is like i wish i'd been diagnosed earlier
57:03
because I think it gives you language to understand certain things.
57:08
And as opposed to being super hard on myself.
57:10
So that's something I've had to work through therapy on is like,
57:13
I can be really kind to other people and I can say like really hectic things to myself.
57:16
Hectic is the word.
57:19
And it's always like, had I had that vocabulary then,
57:24
I could have had more sustainable practices.
57:26
So even when I work with people, someone will say the strategy is not working for me.
57:30
sometimes I think like how can we do this alternatively because I don't I'm not neurotypical
57:36
um but it did result in me just burning myself out I guess my whole life through
57:40
yeah so it wasn't like a I got diagnosed when I was first in law school but that was like very
57:47
that was a very like it was a quick thing when they diagnosed me and when I moved to England
57:52
because I couldn't get my script there I had to go through like really extensive assessments and like
57:57
commentary from people in my lives and they were like asking questions and i was like
58:01
this is so interesting like that's why i would do this like my mom used to just say i was a moody
58:06
kid and then when they were doing my assessments i was like i wasn't a moody kid like clearly there
58:10
was something deeper going on um my time management i think naming those things so it's not an excuse
58:17
i'll never ever i don't believe in it being an excuse and the reason i say that is because i
58:22
obviously have the resources to counter certain things i think it's a very different conversation
58:26
if maybe someone is sitting with adhd and they're like i struggle with this like i never want people
58:30
to feel judged i think everything is so different but for me it's like if you have the resources i'm
58:34
really strict on this and my friends know i'm like if you have the resources to fix something
58:38
i can only hold so much empathy for you and that's the exact same thing with myself um but having that
58:43
language and like navigating through that was like it means i'm gonna set my alarm like 10 20 minutes
58:48
earlier or like the time earlier um and things like that and i can work in this way i i hyper
58:55
focus a lot which is like a great thing but it needs to be controlled so it just means i can't
59:00
work and like do seven million things in one day um sometimes i have to like business means like
59:05
sometimes you have to do things in a certain way but at my ultimate like peak flow i like time
59:11
blocking certain things and on that day it's like there must be a theme so maybe today's strategy
59:15
but i need to do strategy across like all these different clients and all these businesses i think
59:19
it just empowered me more um whereas i think the language that we used to have around neurodivergence
59:24
as kids and i do want to say like maybe in south africa because in the uk it's not
59:30
looked down upon um it's something that people are really open about it's something where
59:36
i don't i haven't lived in a country that makes as many accommodations as the uk does for people
59:41
that are struggling with neurodivergence there's obviously a nuance in the sense that it takes a
59:45
really long time to get diagnosed there so i already had the benefit of being diagnosed but
59:49
i had to wait 18 months for a diagnosis from them yeah the nhs is going through some really
59:54
hectic things 18 months um and some people wait even longer um and so yeah i think that's maybe
1:00:01
the the issue that they have but once you are diagnosed once you have that diagnosis i've never
1:00:06
seen an environment that's so willing to make accommodations um it was really interesting to
1:00:11
see that comparison between my university experience here versus there because there
1:00:16
they work with people um whereas here i think it was always seen as like you're spoon feeding kids
1:00:20
or like you're not allowing kids to be independent and i'm like no i actually just think you guys
1:00:24
don't know how to make a like a curriculum that can accommodate for everyone so even when i said
1:00:29
i went to wrestle group uni in the in the uk you can choose certain like subjects but you also can
1:00:35
choose how you want to be examined i think that's really important because not every like neuro
1:00:40
divergent person performs under neurotypical conditions i can burn myself out to do that
1:00:45
like that's what high school taught me and like do really well in it but i would also like to have a
1:00:49
soul at the end of it i don't want to like burn myself out for the point of like achieving certain
1:00:53
things so um i think that's one thing like moving to the uk made me realize is i wish our education
1:00:59
system was maybe a more yeah i think open to it um but also didn't like negatively label it um
1:01:08
and like maybe taught teachers how to pick it up a lot quicker because i think here it's like if
1:01:11
you're high performing and you get good marks they like you can't be neurodivergent and i'm like
1:01:15
trust me like so many people i know are like yeah we got diagnosed when we were much later because
1:01:20
it was just seen as oh you get good marks and you're really high performing so you can't be
1:01:24
neurodivergent um and if you are like i just think we need to take away like the stigma from all the
1:01:29
language um yeah so i the one like law elective i did used to speak about persons with disabilities
1:01:37
as opposed to calling someone a disabled person um and i think the language around it is really
1:01:42
important um but also just not to paint people with a brush of like oh i think i think most
1:01:49
people in my life are neurodivergent so i think that's another thing and i'm like those are
1:01:53
honestly a lot of the smartest people i know i yeah especially like sometimes i look at the people
1:02:00
i know with autism and i'm like they're just really incredibly honest and i think i wish we
1:02:04
could all be that honest and like save ourselves some time um i think if we started to look at it
1:02:10
like that because i think there is a lot of superpower around it um and it's just people
1:02:16
say differently abled i don't know that i like that but i just think you have different competencies
1:02:19
um but you can also be extremely talented in things that are not neurotypical so i think
1:02:26
that's been my experience i've never it's never been like oh it means you can't do this i think
1:02:30
i was raised in a home where it's like you can do whatever you want to do and i grew up knowing that
1:02:34
i could do whatever i want to do and then i got diagnosed so much later in life and it was like
1:02:38
i've achieved so much i don't think this takes away from what i'm able to achieve in life or not
1:02:43
but i do think the language is really important in understanding yourself and not like getting
1:02:48
mad at yourself for things that maybe it's like oh i just needed to manage this differently because
1:02:52
i think differently to a neurotypical person um so i would i would love great awareness around that
1:02:57
especially in school but especially in universities i don't think universities here are like very
1:03:03
tailored towards neurodivergence so yeah that's like my that's been my experience
1:03:10
thank you for explaining that and also contrasting two systems and how you've seen it can be
1:03:15
and so like that creates the possibility of how can we have more institutions like you've shared
1:03:19
that are more accommodating and how can we in an interpersonal way honor these different capacities
1:03:25
and superpowers and it feels like it's like the society that is disabled in that it's not
1:03:29
actually an accommodating place for all minds and all beings rather than the person the person has
1:03:34
their gifts has their capacities and like all things in life we all have our strengths and we
1:03:39
all have the things that do not come easy to us but there's like a deep intelligence in that like
1:03:44
we're meant to yeah um so i appreciate you explaining that and i think a lot of people
1:03:47
will feel seen by that and also what you said about oh if you're high functioning it is othered
1:03:53
it is sort of like erased or diminished in some way in the stigma you mentioned i think trevor
1:03:58
Noah, like coming out, like coming out, even Trevor Noah sharing his diagnosis later in life
1:04:03
is such a beautiful example of how like the image and the narrative around what it means to be
1:04:07
neurodivergent is so different from the diverse realities of what that can look like.
1:04:12
So, um,
1:04:13
yeah, I really appreciate you expressing that and sharing that.
1:04:16
Is there anything you wish
1:04:18
people actually in general, I feel we, when we talk about self-betrayal, often we individualize
1:04:24
a solution of like how can I honor myself and what I deeply love about friendships that are
1:04:28
an integrity like you said is like we help each other honor ourselves like your friend did with
1:04:33
you and like you do with your friends so how can we be spaces that like call each other to be our
1:04:39
most authentic self I do think it starts with the self um and like I said if you want to attract
1:04:46
certain things I really think you deeply need to think about like how you express them I don't
1:04:51
thing that means you have to be perfect at it right i think even an intention is enough um maybe
1:04:56
if like intention is i wish people listen to me better it's like well how can i create space for
1:05:00
people to do that i like to say not necessarily that the prize is that oh one day someone is
1:05:06
going to listen to you really well i think sometimes the prize is the actual journey of that
1:05:10
so if it's like you're seeking certain things in your life seeing how you attract that in your
1:05:15
community is important because you could have friends right like and then it's like it's not
1:05:18
helpful at all so you could still be self-betraying yourself your friendships could be a form of
1:05:22
self-betrayal which sometimes was my experience but i think you need to get really clear on like
1:05:26
what is it that you want keeping in mind that you can always change it that i always feel like
1:05:30
people need to recognize that you're not static like if you want to wake up one day and you're
1:05:34
like oh maybe i actually want friends who like horse riding that's okay like that that's there's
1:05:39
space for that there's a reason why you have that desire but get really clear on that um and i think
1:05:45
maybe i went about in a very like extreme way but get rid of anything that's like very opposite to
1:05:50
what you want so like if it's like i want honesty and accountability i used to be so big on like i
1:05:54
need to forgive everyone i was like you know what i forgive you i don't have to have you in my space
1:05:58
because i need to open up space for people understand why this is important to me and
1:06:02
the people who maybe are aligned with you will think that dishonesty is okay but i'm not that
1:06:06
person so like let's separate um i think that's important because the reason is there is so much
1:06:12
power and vulnerability but i also think we have to be realistic and understand that people can use
1:06:18
your vulnerability in really ugly ways and so i do believe in like cultivating a safe space with
1:06:24
discernment um and be intentional about that and like be discerning because i don't necessarily
1:06:29
think like if we're going to make this a collective thing it has to be with people that are safe people
1:06:32
that i trust um where it's okay like recognizing that not everyone has capacity at the same time i
1:06:39
think that's like one of the greatest things with my friendship group is maybe it's because like
1:06:42
there's so many of us but it's like i have to hold space for the fact that maybe you don't have
1:06:47
capacity at this time but i do um and maybe like i can help with your capacity um having friendships
1:06:54
like that and then places where you can be really open around self-betrayal and like people who are
1:06:58
honest i used to struggle with having friendships where it was like everything seemed like really
1:07:02
nice and we were all happy but then no one could be honest like and if i'm like being honest with
1:07:06
you and saying hey like maybe that's not the best like way to go about it it would be taken as a
1:07:11
personal attack my friendships now i always say that i love you and i trust you with so much of
1:07:17
myself in my life that if i thought you had bad intentions i need to go re-look at myself and i
1:07:24
think that that's a really important thing i'm not saying that people don't have like weird
1:07:27
friendship dynamics but i think the core part is like always be clear on what you want and who you
1:07:31
are um and before wanting to blame the next person i think there's a little bit of self-reflection
1:07:36
and like why would i choose that person that was something i had to ask myself for a really long
1:07:40
time it's like if i think this person is this which they very well could be what was it about
1:07:44
me that attracted that person um in order to cultivate a safe space because i can't be
1:07:49
vulnerable in a place that's not safe and i can't work through self-betrayal if it's like not safe
1:07:54
um and i think it can be incredibly damaging even if you're like i want to be vulnerable and then
1:07:58
you're vulnerable and it's like not the most aligned space i always always always emphasize
1:08:03
like a safe space but also deeply have the belief that i'm going to find safe people like i'll watch
1:08:09
people say like oh i don't know like all my friends in the past hurt me i'm not disregarding
1:08:13
that but i like i you need to walk more in the narrative around like if this exists if i have
1:08:18
this desire it means it exists like if i want safe spaces it means they exist and sometimes you don't
1:08:24
have to cultivate that like i said my friendships now and my relationships now aren't things that i
1:08:30
like yes i show up for them but i could have never imagined that myself so you have to leave space
1:08:35
for like if i want this it means it exists and it could even exist in a way better form than what i
1:08:39
would envision myself um but it's like create a safe space where you can be open and honest like
1:08:46
i think about a lot of things that i speak about now with my friends i'm like i would have never
1:08:49
shared that i was like such a private person i always used to hide like i never used to share
1:08:55
anything actually i used to be like an overly private person because i think i've been burnt
1:08:58
in the past um and now it'll just be like oh friend i'm going through this and then my friends
1:09:03
be like yeah I'm going through this and I'm like oh my gosh like we can speak about this I don't
1:09:08
I think that's really beautiful but you can only do that in a space that's safe like that's all I
1:09:12
can advocate for is like create what you believe is a safe space be that safe space even if you
1:09:18
get burnt my grandmother would always tell me because I was always like I have like such a big
1:09:21
heart and I feel like people take advantage of that she was like don't like change your heart
1:09:26
for like how people respond to you like there's a reason God gave you that heart obviously be
1:09:31
discerning with it like that was a big thing my grandmother would say to me but she was like
1:09:34
there's a reason god gave you the heart that you do and eventually it's all gonna make sense
1:09:38
um and so it does make like at this point in my life i'm like it totally makes sense because i
1:09:42
have like people around me who have even bigger hearts um and who protect their hearts but it's
1:09:48
important to have a safe space otherwise i think you can burn yourself out and like trying to like
1:09:53
be accountable to yourself
1:10:00
i relate so deeply to where you ended off with oh yeah we can say this like that hyper independence
1:10:06
in childhood or in your life where you've always internalized things and you haven't had that
1:10:10
confidant or those people who were safe people to to share your deepest truth with and as you're
1:10:15
saying the words like even in an embodied way you cannot believe like you are in a place in your
1:10:20
life and in a setting where you feel comfortable i have that with my best friend alex where i'm like
1:10:24
wow, I'm really telling you this, like, this is really happening.
1:10:27
This is me.
1:10:29
Um, and what a gift
1:10:30
I feel like that's also ancestral healing.
1:10:32
Cause I think we've also maybe learned or internalized
1:10:35
that hyper independence from women or people in our lives who had to be, you know, um, or at least
1:10:39
in my case, like, I feel like there's such a, uh, privilege to being soft and being allowed to be,
1:10:46
and leaning into your softness and not having to be strong, you know, all the time or having to
1:10:51
put on a face.
1:10:52
So it's beautiful to hear that.
1:10:54
And I just love what you've cultivated with your
1:10:56
friends.
1:10:57
And I think someone listening to this may think, how do I get friends like these?
1:11:01
Like,
1:11:01
this is incredible.
1:11:02
How have you cultivated this friend group?
1:11:04
Especially the fact that it's a
1:11:05
group.
1:11:06
Cause I find people who have a lot of deep friendships, they'll often be like one,
1:11:09
like petals.
1:11:10
I think they call it where it's like one, one, one.
1:11:12
It's very rare to find like a high
1:11:14
vibrational, like group of like aligned souls.
1:11:17
So how have you found your soul siblings, your soul
1:11:19
sisters i love my soul siblings so much i can talk about them every day oh my gosh i love them
1:11:25
so much um i think they're a mind of god's love in my life every day and like the way that they
1:11:31
show up and just are themselves i really do credit it to god i was saying this to my friend the other
1:11:36
day and she was speaking about how like she feels like she has a sense of misalignment in a friendship
1:11:39
group and i was like i think it's important to honor yourself i think it's like so much more
1:11:44
important to focus on what you want as opposed to what didn't work yes i think sometimes people get
1:11:49
so caught up in like oh so and so is a bad person i i don't no one's a bad person i don't ever think
1:11:54
so intrinsically or i come to the the the conclusion that we have good and bad in us
1:11:59
um and so it's probably just a case of misalignment like i said unless it's like something that's like
1:12:03
deeply objectively morally wrong and even that's subjective because my morals are not the same as
1:12:07
the next person's one um but i really do believe again like i said earlier you have to honor what
1:12:13
it is that you want in this time in your life acknowledging that it can change um and let go of
1:12:19
everything else that is not that um and i think at the time it was more so i was consciously
1:12:24
manifesting things around my career and maybe finances um and the thing that kept coming up
1:12:29
was like okay yeah but your relationships don't mirror what you want like you want freedom but
1:12:34
you want to surround yourself with people where you feel like you can't be free i feel like there's
1:12:38
a contradiction there um so i do that and that's why i say you have to go into the deeper why of
1:12:44
what you want because it's all interconnected like if it is that you want freedom well you
1:12:49
should also honor that in your friendships and like what it is that you want in your friendships
1:12:53
um someone once told me to like pray over my friendships and i don't think i got that advice
1:12:59
until much later in my life because i think i used to take it as like pray that your friends
1:13:02
don't die every day like i said i have oh yes i just put true grief i had so i would like
1:13:07
sit there my first apartment i had like a list and it was like i just have a lot of friends so
1:13:13
was like maybe every day i was praying for like eight or nine people to not die and then still
1:13:17
praying for my family and myself so i was like this is not really like i don't know that this
1:13:22
is what i was supposed to be doing that's not sustainable i still pray for my friends but i
1:13:25
think in a way more sustainable way um but i think i just got really honest with god or whoever your
1:13:30
creator is or like whatever you're manifesting to be like i want to be seen in this way um i want
1:13:36
to be able to show up in this way i love loving i i never want to not love so i don't want to be
1:13:41
around people where i have to feel like if i love you this way is it going to be calculated are you
1:13:45
going to do this i just want to love freely um and i think i also got to the point of like
1:13:50
my love is so big and expansive even if someone does me wrong i can still show up in that way
1:13:55
again like it takes away nothing from me that you did something wrong and i wrong is like maybe how
1:14:00
it showed up to me i don't know what your nuance or like what you were thinking was but it's like
1:14:05
i love loving and i'm never gonna stop loving um and this is how this is what love means to me and
1:14:11
I think you need to define that for yourself constantly.
1:14:13
I also just think, and I don't know that everyone is that way.
1:14:16
Cause now I'm like, if someone ever said this to me, I'd be like,
1:14:18
I do not think about anything romantic,
1:14:20
but I think it is important to like decenter romantic love.
1:14:23
I used to think,
1:14:24
I think I used to put a lot of emphasis onto like romance to be like,
1:14:27
it has to be all encompassing and it needs to be everything.
1:14:31
And now that I have really good friendships, I'm like, no,
1:14:33
it like adds to my life and maybe there's different dynamics,
1:14:37
but all those things I wanted, I still have in friendship.
1:14:41
and maybe even better in friendship i think sometimes women show up so much better in men
1:14:45
in terms of like nurturing one another um and that might be like a biological difference that's cool
1:14:50
that's fine but it's like i i you need to be really intentional about what you want put yourself out
1:14:56
there like i say this sometimes to like a lot of the older people in my life who are maybe in more
1:15:01
male-dominated careers and they're like oh like i speak about like if you wanted like my big things
1:15:06
i speak about women friendship and relationships all the time um and i have some people in my life
1:15:10
or like i've been burnt by women or like and i'm like yeah cool they're like billions of women out
1:15:15
there right let's go find the women that are for you let's not focus on like where you've been
1:15:20
burnt we also don't know what that put like what that came to and like you can honor that as like
1:15:24
i don't want that in my life so sometimes i also say if you have something that you don't want in
1:15:27
your life pick like take note of it to be like i never want to feel like this again i don't like
1:15:32
this behavior and keep that as like okay moving thing i'm like this is what i want in friendships
1:15:37
and relationships um i will be very honest and say my big friendship group maybe the reason why
1:15:43
it is so big is because my so they're all yeah let's break this down to biology and like soul
1:15:49
level at a soul level we're all siblings but my the one big part of our friendship group they're
1:15:54
all biological siblings so like there's like a big part of them where it's i always say to them
1:15:59
i think they're such great friends because they technically don't need any of us like they
1:16:04
they could throw a party by themselves and it's like a full party how many are they lots
1:16:09
there's lots of them um and for them it's also like family so deep ingrained that even like the
1:16:15
cousins are siblings yes totally it's very and they operate as like everyone is a sibling
1:16:20
and so i always say like i know that you guys love us because you actually don't need us like
1:16:24
some people maybe are like i need friends i'm like the only sibling i'm like the only child i'm
1:16:28
i'm not an only child but some people might look at it from that perspective of i need lots of
1:16:32
people in my life whereas with them i'm always like i know that you guys love us because you
1:16:35
don't actually like there's you can choose to just be friends with each other and they have the
1:16:39
greatest sibling relationship and friendships with each other so it's not even like oh you just have
1:16:44
to be friends because no they are great i always like i give big credit to their mom um and i'm
1:16:50
like because not everyone could do that someone could have messed it up but you deeply honor your
1:16:54
kids and allow them to show up as who they are they're not even like identical i can't explain
1:16:59
each and every single one of them brings out a different part in me so i'm like you cultivated
1:17:04
an environment for your kids to feel comfortable to be exactly who they are um and i just learned
1:17:09
so much from that so i think that's also like a big hack that i should be honest about like
1:17:13
there's a big part of it that's like everyone's siblings but i don't know that we have any only
1:17:17
children in our friendship group so it's also like all the siblings also become like like and like
1:17:22
not even in like a we can go like we went to cape town for kind of music last year
1:17:29
i love kind of music oh my goodness that's like a big part of my soul oh my goodness what wow
1:17:38
my young so my friend's younger sibling who's also like my young sibling was there and it was
1:17:43
it was like are you okay are you good do you need anything like if i go anywhere and like my sibling
1:17:48
like my friend's siblings are they who are also my siblings i'll be like is there anything that
1:17:51
you need so it's like all the siblings also become friends like we may not see each other all the
1:17:56
time but it's like all the siblings become friends um and yeah so i think that's like a big part of
1:18:02
it is like it's very family orientated wow all the siblings are together um for instance like
1:18:10
everyone's my soulmate but like if i say like one of my key soulmates and like on this planet is one
1:18:14
of my best friends but she doesn't live in the same city but her siblings do i'll go see her
1:18:18
siblings all the time and they're like my little siblings like we'll go have a time and they teach
1:18:23
me something different so i think that we all maybe envision community in similar ways and i
1:18:28
think it's always best to be around people who like i like i said i know i don't know that i i
1:18:34
i'm attracted to or like attract people that are not like family orientated i really would struggle
1:18:40
with certain things around that um i think find like what light senses your heart on fire um but
1:18:46
also another thing sorry we all have like really good friend-in-laws and my one sister felicity
1:18:52
she is a good cupid for friendships like i always say that i'm like that's your talent
1:18:57
she brought us all together like maybe she should be the creator she can come tell everyone on how
1:19:00
to make friends she brought us all together like collectively wow um she's really good at that
1:19:06
she's like a good friendship cupid oh so yeah i think maybe like she holds the keys like better
1:19:11
than that but it is it's like a very big group of like friends that have all become siblings and
1:19:15
like friend-in-laws um and because my friends pick good friends i also feel like you would never pick
1:19:21
bad so like even my friend-in-laws i'm comfortable with obviously to different like levels some of
1:19:26
them i may see once a year others i might see every week and then you naturally build relationships
1:19:31
in that way as well um but we don't have a scarcity mindset there's always abundance so
1:19:37
i think that's also like a different thing with us it's never like i can be your only best friend
1:19:41
like it's never that it's like i'm excited that you're hanging out with your other best friend
1:19:46
um are your other friends okay like is everyone doing well like i will sit on the phone and be
1:19:50
like is so and so okay are they fine are they good are they doing well last time they were
1:19:55
struggling with this okay oh this person is silent are they fine so i think that's also just like
1:20:00
be around people that attract good people like i always say to my friends even if they have
1:20:04
friendship problems with other people i never take it as like there's something wrong with
1:20:08
that person i'm always like you have shown me that you have like the ability to make good
1:20:13
friendships so maybe this is more misalignment or like an issue that can be resolved i'll never be
1:20:17
like yeah like samantha's it's because i don't have a samantha in my life but i'll never be like
1:20:22
samantha is a bad friend it's more like you guys love each other and like i know that you want the
1:20:26
best for each other so like how do we work around it in that way um and like let's work because i
1:20:32
know that that makes you happy so like let's figure it out all together so yeah i think that's
1:20:36
the key for us wow oh my word this is a school this is a lesson that is such a cool and oh i love
1:20:43
the different forms of kinship that can exist.
1:20:45
And I love how this family has then opened up to
1:20:48
like receive more family and the friend-in-law and the language you have around this group.
1:20:52
It's so unique.
1:20:53
And, uh, may we all find more and more forms of creative community that come from
1:20:59
our own values, our own highest spirit and self.
1:21:01
Um, and it sounds just so expansive and nurturing.
1:21:04
So the, the asking after everyone, like we do like in, in, I mean, that's a big part of like
1:21:08
my biological family is like, how's this person?
1:21:11
How's this person?
1:21:11
So it's incredible when
1:21:13
people have that, like, ah, it makes me so happy that you have that.
1:21:17
And that the people
1:21:18
in this group really have each other's souls, backs, all the things.
1:21:22
And it also is just,
1:21:23
it's interesting to me as like what you think a conversation will be about and then like where
1:21:28
it emerges and where it is.
1:21:29
So I just appreciate that someone here is thinking, oh, I want to be
1:21:33
a friendship Cupid or like they're receiving some sort of community message about maybe someone in
1:21:38
their life, who has been their connector.
1:21:39
Like it's a divine role, you know, that is,
1:21:42
and it's interesting again, cause going back to like, what do you do?
1:21:45
Things like that.
1:21:45
It's like,
1:21:46
well, no, one's going to say that, but that's actually what they do.
1:21:48
You know, that friend
1:21:49
Felicity, like, thank you for your work.
1:21:52
Um, so anyways, what a gift, um, before we transition
1:21:56
to the soul salon closing, it's been, I could ask you so many things and I'm so, oh wait, actually
1:22:01
the one thing I do want to ask you about, because I did say that we would go to it before I ask the
1:22:06
pre-question to the closing is about anticipatory grief and i love how you mentioned praying for all
1:22:11
your friends that they do not die um can you just tell us what that is i love how it gave you
1:22:15
language so my therapist was the one that told me this i didn't really know i just always thought i
1:22:20
have anxiety which i do and like was i dealt with anxiety was medicated for anxiety um but i just
1:22:27
always had this impending sense of doom that people were gonna die like even from childhood
1:22:31
it was and I like I said I know the one mark of my life was my brother passing away but even before
1:22:38
that like my mom would like very easily tell you I'd wait at the door like waiting for my mom to
1:22:43
come home from work or like call incessantly and like be like I I don't I don't 100% know where
1:22:51
it comes from but I can see like markers in my life around it um and I don't have a fear of dying
1:22:56
so that's actually so that's something I spoke to my friend about when we were speaking about like
1:23:01
and it was a friend i was actually getting to know and like now we're much closer friends and i was
1:23:04
like i have anticipatory grief and she was like i do too and then we explained her anticipatory
1:23:08
grief is around her dying mine is like i always say you actually can't threaten me with dying me
1:23:13
like if you want to like hold me hostage i always have my friends and family like let them do
1:23:16
whatever they want to do like i'm actually not scared i have a bigger thing around like friends
1:23:20
and family i think that also is like why i i think deeply around having kids because i'm like i
1:23:26
wouldn't want to project that onto my kids i'd want my kids to like live freely and not have to
1:23:30
worry about like me having anxiety around people like dying um it came out a lot when i was in uni
1:23:39
but i think that's when i started therapy that like i was always and another thing that i think
1:23:44
triggered it was when i was doing my first degree at uct it was a time where like a lot of people
1:23:48
were passing away through suicide so i think like that was like a big trigger event um to me
1:23:54
I don't think there's a solution but it's like coming to an acceptance that people do die I think
1:24:00
a really healing part for me was when my grandmother did pass away like my grandmother
1:24:05
was maybe my first soulmate on this planet like that's my goal um I think everyone thought I was
1:24:11
gonna break and like fall apart and I I think I did as well um but I didn't like of course I was
1:24:18
sad in their moments where I'm like I wish she was still here but I'm also like she's at peace and
1:24:23
her spirit is everywhere with me and like she lives in my heart forever so i don't necessarily
1:24:27
know that there's like a solution to it um but i think naming it was really important because
1:24:33
it also filtered into how i dealt with a lot of things so for instance i would never express
1:24:36
things like if you made me unhappy i'd never say it because my fear was if you die and we're
1:24:40
fighting like and i think it's also because i had an instance with someone where um before they
1:24:45
passed away we weren't getting along because they'd done something to me and i just didn't
1:24:48
know how to express it and then we resolved it and then they passed away and then i had this
1:24:52
thing around like if they had passed away before we resolved it i don't know that i would have like
1:24:56
coped so i think it's like more so coming to acceptance around life does happen no one lives
1:25:03
forever if anything like if i can just show up and that's why i always say i want people to know
1:25:08
like even when i'm not here even when you're not here like may you always know my soul loved you
1:25:12
with all that it could like in its moment um but i am also more like people do die it's unfortunate
1:25:19
it um i think maybe that's also why i'm obsessed with documenting things like i just want memories
1:25:23
but it's never gonna like i would always say to my therapist i would want to know how i could love
1:25:27
someone so much that it would never like i would never feel it when they pass away the reality is
1:25:30
like you are gonna feel it like there's never gonna be like a point in life where it's like
1:25:35
i love them so much i don't miss them like you're gonna miss someone i think that's also okay that's
1:25:39
like that's great we had so many memories and like you played such a big role in my life i am less
1:25:46
anxious but like i also think again the people in my life have played a big role around that
1:25:52
when i became open about the fact that like i struggle with this i'm anxious about this
1:25:56
um so all my friends that are all siblings they will like they can wake up tomorrow and leave
1:26:00
and like i i week i could wake up and think oh we're in the same city and then like two seconds
1:26:05
later it's like oh no they're in china and i'm like you went to china and you didn't tell me
1:26:09
um but i think being more expressive about it meant that all the people in my life were more
1:26:14
open and honest about how they approach certain situations so it was like oh we never knew that
1:26:19
anyone cares that much you know that and i'm like i just want to know that you're alive and safe um
1:26:23
and having a safe space to express that is important so i think it is also around the
1:26:28
community that you cultivate as opposed to people who are like that's so silly like no it's not
1:26:33
silly it matters to you um yeah so i think it is like the community that i have right now therapy
1:26:40
has also been a really big help um and coming to the exception that people do die like there's
1:26:46
there's not so much we can do to control it people eventually die and like make the best that you can
1:26:51
like while everyone is here wow an eternal truth we are invited to be in touch with thank you for
1:27:02
sharing that it's i'm sure if anyone is maybe didn't have that language of anticipatory grief
1:27:08
and just the way that your community continues to show up and meet you at each level of vulnerability
1:27:13
that you offer them is so beautiful.
1:27:15
And, um, it's interesting what you said about how, like,
1:27:18
you are deeply concerned for the death of your friends and family, but not so much your own.
1:27:22
And it sort of ties to the, um, treating other people or treating yourself the way you wouldn't
1:27:28
treat others.
1:27:28
It's interesting how we value ourselves or like how we, where we locate our
1:27:33
worth because I'm curious I'm just fascinated by that because it's like we fear losing what we
1:27:37
deeply like value but maybe it's also related to your relationship with God and yourself as eternal
1:27:43
I'm wondering if anything comes up but I'm also aware of the fact that they may like kick us out
1:27:48
of this studio but it's just a gift gift to listen to you express that because grief is a part of our
1:27:54
lives death is a part of our lives but it there aren't as many spaces as they need to be to really
1:27:59
talk about it yeah definitely before we go to our closing ritual i just wanted to create space is
1:28:05
there anything that either felt unheard or felt like you wanted to express that you didn't get
1:28:10
a chance to express no i love this i'll i'll be back in a year um i don't really have any i feel
1:28:18
like i've i've yapped a lot but my big thing is like if anyone is sitting out there like
1:28:23
waiting to create something like go and create it um you don't know i feel like i also learned a lot
1:28:28
that from you it's like you don't know who needs it and i never feel like you're creating for the
1:28:32
self most times you're creating and it resonates and you build a community um i think maybe so
1:28:38
i've sat on with a lot of people now that like want to start businesses and i'm like just do it
1:28:42
um never be afraid of failure because you can fail forward and love like at the end of the day all we
1:28:48
have is love we have a lot of things but like i think love is like what makes the world go around
1:28:53
so yeah i share that belief with you oh yes love love love and oh i know someone needed to hear
1:29:00
that create especially with businesses yes especially with whatever you are creating
1:29:04
can you share that delicious quote on entrepreneurship that you oh yes i had to go so
1:29:09
i said i believe deeply especially in this country that entrepreneurship is an act of hope um it's
1:29:16
especially with how things are in south africa i think sometimes we focus on a lot of the negative
1:29:21
or where there's limitations but i think to believe and know that you can create something
1:29:26
and solve a problem or make someone's life better is an act of hope in the face of limited resources
1:29:33
um or dire circumstances but i also think one of the greatest things about our country
1:29:38
is the entrepreneurial community um i don't think there's any shame in failing like i hope that
1:29:43
everyone knows that that that is sometimes what hope is like people are so happy to express hope
1:29:48
in other ways and relationship and i'm like if you want to start a business do it there's someone
1:29:52
who needs it um and there's always an open door like i i love speaking to women about businesses
1:29:57
sometimes my capacity is where i live but like i will always be here to listen to any woman who
1:30:02
wants to start anything um because that is ultimately an act of hope that you believe
1:30:06
that you can change something about our country whether it's through improving lives or improving
1:30:11
infrastructure or changing the way we deliver service and nothing is like ever insignificant
1:30:16
significant like nothing if some if it exists in your head someone wants it oh and we can all do
1:30:21
this even if seven million of us started the same business i promise you it's going to thrive like
1:30:25
don't allow yourself to be limited by scarcity so definitely um and if you are a woman wanting
1:30:30
to start a business socially gathering also has like a business division oh um where they it's
1:30:34
called we do business she means business sorry she means business that's what it's called um
1:30:40
but there's always communities and there's always so many people that are willing to share
1:30:46
and have a moment with anyone to honor that.
1:30:49
Like it's a calling.
1:30:50
So please follow it.
1:30:51
Like that's my big thing.
1:30:53
That's my big thing.
1:30:56
I love it.
1:30:57
Oh my word.
1:30:58
That's magical.
1:30:59
It's a calling.
1:31:00
Honor it.
1:31:01
There's been such a theme of vision
1:31:04
and speaking to the world we want to see,
1:31:06
speaking to the future you want to see
1:31:08
rather than, you know, as you said with friendship,
1:31:10
don't name all the things you don't want,
1:31:12
like speak into what you do.
1:31:13
And I do think a business is that speaking.
1:31:15
It is that voice of what is possible and of vision.
1:31:18
And I think it's so important that people who have been marginalized, women, queer people,
1:31:22
non-binary people, like speak into that void with what our vision is.
1:31:26
What do we think should exist?
1:31:27
What do we think, you know, should be and should be in the world?
1:31:31
So yes, create, create, create and take this as a sign.
1:31:35
So we will close with six questions where your invitation is to share in one or two
1:31:39
sentences.
1:31:40
It's been a gift to hear you speak.
1:31:42
and I love the full circle moment.
1:31:43
I'm so grateful that this work has supported you.
1:31:46
And so it's wonderful that you are here supporting us
1:31:49
through your work and through your words.
1:31:50
Okay, so the sixth question.
1:31:52
The first is one illusion that I do not believe is?
1:31:58
I don't believe in scarcity.
1:32:00
There's so much abundance in everything, in everything.
1:32:04
Ooh, I love it.
1:32:05
And that was like another full circle
1:32:07
because you started there
1:32:08
when you were speaking about desires
1:32:09
and money and money blocks and abundant thinking.
1:32:12
And then now where we are now,
1:32:14
what you said with starting a business,
1:32:15
like even if we all started the same business,
1:32:17
that was very powerful
1:32:18
because that's a huge thing that blocks people.
1:32:20
What if someone else?
1:32:21
Yeah, love that.
1:32:22
Okay, the second question is something
1:32:25
that I find really sacred
1:32:26
that a lot of the world treats as ordinary.
1:32:29
Dancing.
1:32:30
Please get up on a couch and dance.
1:32:31
I love it.
1:32:32
I mean, please respect the property of other people,
1:32:35
but just dance, like go out and dance
1:32:37
and have a good time.
1:32:39
yay have fun I love how it's always the couch yes like have fun someone needs this couch aspect of
1:32:45
the dancing I'm like maybe I don't dance on couches enough I love that respect the property
1:32:51
so great um okay the third thing is the most sacred part of my life right now is
1:32:58
my deep connections to my family and my friends that have become family for sure
1:33:03
yeah you've been a channel for this message of family and chosen family and oh
1:33:07
wow okay the fourth question is something i am no longer available for is
1:33:15
so many things dishonoring myself for the convenience of others
1:33:21
yes yes i love the quote let your love for yourself be stronger than any need you have
1:33:29
for approval yeah yes yes yes i don't know who said it but someone said it okay the fifth question
1:33:35
is if you the listener the viewer if you only receive actually let's not if you the sole sibling
1:33:41
only receive one gem or insight from this conversation i hope oh that would be
1:33:48
oh i'm never one person but let me try let me try to connect in alignment whatever that means
1:33:57
for you like connect in alignment um and believe in expansion over scarcity um and not like go
1:34:05
very like this could be a whole long thing but i always say if you see someone who has something
1:34:09
you like as opposed to like feeling like oh it means i don't have it that's an expander like i
1:34:14
i could there's a whole episode on like expansion but see it as an expansion that is possible for
1:34:20
you um as opposed to feeling like oh that means i can't have it i think the world would be a much
1:34:24
better place if we looked at things like that absolutely oh my word yes uh as someone who's
1:34:30
like a recovering jealous person, I'm really working on that.
1:34:34
And it's really helped me so
1:34:35
much of like, Oh my word, they have that.
1:34:37
She has that.
1:34:37
That means that's possible.
1:34:38
Look, I'm like,
1:34:39
thank you for showing me what's possible.
1:34:40
That's my mantra.
1:34:41
And I see someone like,
1:34:43
like scarcity abundance.
1:34:44
Thank you for showing me what's possible.
1:34:46
Incredible.
1:34:46
And may you be
1:34:47
even more successful than I could even hope that you could be like, I like praying for people who
1:34:52
I originally feel, or like, I like manifesting the success of people who I originally felt a
1:34:57
bit of contraction around.
1:34:58
I'm like, Oh no, it means that I'm not good.
1:35:00
And it's like, no,
1:35:01
am I would, may you go even further?
1:35:03
Okay.
1:35:03
Sorry.
1:35:04
I got distracted.
1:35:05
Um, the sixth question is if my
1:35:09
inner child, younger grace walked through that door, I would say to her, you're doing amazing,
1:35:15
sweetie.
1:35:18
It's just so good.
1:35:19
I mean, it is, uh, yeah, you know, it's such a good, it's so good.
1:35:23
wonderful okay wonderful any final words or offerings for the listener or my word
1:35:30
wonderful amazing any final words um i just want to say thank you for expanding our worlds
1:35:37
i'm not going to go into the whole long tangent about it but so i was saying to my sister that
1:35:41
i viewed you as an expansive force from when i was 16 and it inspired you and one other person
1:35:46
i'm not going to name because i don't name people's names but i love that you guys both
1:35:51
really expanded my world in terms of what i thought was possible especially as a black woman
1:35:57
in the world um so thank you for your expansion thank you for all that you share thank you for
1:36:02
the opportunity to come here um and i love all that you do and i can't wait to be back in a year
1:36:08
um and i can't wait for all the success that the soul salon continues to see
1:36:12
ah thank you i receive that receive receive receive oh i feel that it feels so good my inner
1:36:18
child my whole self loves receiving so i loves praise loves that feeling of feeling seen like
1:36:25
oh i did something good like so i appreciate you naming that it's beautiful to hear how this work
1:36:29
and how my work has supported you and um i'm just i really received that i'm so grateful it's been a
1:36:35
gift and yes one year from now and yes you'll be seeing grace in the soul salon once more i love
1:36:41
that invitation um that that reclamation what is it what is even the word um i love that declaration
1:36:49
it's been manifested it has already happened so thank you thank you grace i'm so grateful
1:36:54
and where can people find you my very private self i love what you said i don't want to name
1:37:01
her because i don't name people's names so my most public platform is my tiktok okay
1:37:08
share with the world okay azure in the blue um because that was the time where i didn't want
1:37:13
anyone to know i was on tiktok okay that i do share with the world and i share everything around
1:37:17
it my instagram is grezzia underscore azure although i definitely think i'll be changing
1:37:22
my name at some point i'm trying to like get back to what resonates with me yes um and that's pretty
1:37:27
much about it i don't share a lot like i said like i came here because i know i can comfortably
1:37:32
share with you um but those are the places you'll find me if you if you like business i'm always on
1:37:37
linkedin like i'm speaking more to people there than anywhere else yes um and in real life i'm
1:37:43
i go to all not all but a lot of socially gatherings things i okay believe in supporting
1:37:48
a lot of my friends if you like pilates you'll find me a pilates yes um but yeah i am a very
1:37:54
private person but i welcome aligned connection always oh yeah yes oh my gosh i love that so much
1:38:03
wow I'm a very private person but I welcome a land connection always I love that it's so beautiful
1:38:07
we get to choose what resonates with us and continue to play and dance with how we express
1:38:12
ourselves in the world and also our boundaries for how what we're not available for so I adore that
1:38:17
and I'm grateful that this has been a cozy space for your consciousness to land and one thing that
1:38:23
you've mentioned is that you are really invested in helping women turn their visions into reality
1:38:30
so what is one vision in your heart that we can all manifest with you
1:38:36
to give 800 million dollars to women businesses
1:38:38
and then more i'm sure there's a lot more in the world wow specifically south african women wow
1:38:48
can you say that again to give 800 million dollars to south african led and owned women businesses
1:38:54
and there's still space for more of course if there's there's so much investor money that
1:38:58
exists out there we all felt that oh my goodness that's so powerful today yeah it started business
1:39:06
the capital is loading the business today oh my word that's so powerful i feel the richness of
1:39:11
that like the abundance of that the possibility and the ripple effects of those women having that
1:39:15
access like you mentioned oh you are on purpose we are so grateful to be learning from you and
1:39:20
we will stay in touch with you and we will also honor your desire not to be perceived so we'll
1:39:25
find a way may the right people find grace and no one else no i trust if they're here if they're
1:39:29
still here they're the right people that's true that's very true okay wow well thank you so much
1:39:34
grace we'll see you in a year and it's been such a gift to be with you your blue continues to
1:39:38
nourish me and i'm so excited to re-listen to this thank you to the soul siblings watching or
1:39:43
listening to this we are sending so much love to you a delicious message from this is that love
1:39:48
is the ultimate and so who can you go and make feel loved in this moment who might you go and
1:39:54
give your love to, including yourself?
1:39:56
As Grace said, it starts with yourself.
1:39:58
And how can you, if you are in a space where you think you may be betraying yourself
1:40:03
with love and compassion and no blame and no shame, how can you honor that voice inside you
1:40:08
that is asking for more alignment, integrity, and truth?
1:40:10
I'm going to be asking myself that question.
1:40:13
Thank you for traveling with us.
1:40:14
My darling, my love, my soul sibling, thank you for stepping
1:40:19
into the soul salon.
1:40:20
If you are still hearing or watching this, we are soul siblings.
1:40:23
We are
1:40:24
resonating on the same frequency.
1:40:26
And so something you may struggle with that I struggle with is the
1:40:29
fear of being seen.
1:40:31
You know that visibility is involved in you living your creative purpose and
1:40:35
being in your power, serving the collective through your gifts, through your magic, through
1:40:40
your medicine.
1:40:41
In order to do that, you know you need to be more seen than you are allowing yourself
1:40:46
to be right now.
1:40:48
I have a gift just for you, heart made for us on this frequency.
1:40:53
And it is a free
1:40:53
ebook called the soulful visibility guide that is soulful visibility.
1:40:59
Like we don't just want to be
1:41:00
seen.
1:41:00
We want to be felt.
1:41:01
We want to be heard.
1:41:02
We want to move and be moved.
1:41:04
So I do have a free
1:41:05
gift for you.
1:41:06
And all you need to do is go to my website.
1:41:09
I understood.com.
1:41:11
And there you will be
1:41:12
able to input your email address and receive this directly to your inbox.
1:41:16
This is such a juicy and
1:41:18
delicious guide and I change the free offering every few months.
1:41:22
So, you know, get it while you
1:41:24
can.
1:41:24
All the links are in the show notes.
1:41:26
So thank you so much.
1:41:27
I love you and I will see you on the
1:41:29
next soul session.
1:41:30
Okay.
1:41:30
I love you.
1:41:31
Bye.