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Dining with Ghosts: Table for two please... you and the Ghost that is. · Family Tree Food Stories

• 0:03
  Nancy May: Hey, everybody, it's Nancy May co host of Family Tree Food and Stories.
• 0:07
  And my other co host, Celia Lovely, is off stirring up some interesting
• 0:13
  family food stories with other guests.
• 0:16
  She'll be back in another show.
• 0:18
  But until then, This episode is going to be a little on the spooky
• 0:23
  side, It's Halloween, and we're excited to have as our friend and our
• 0:29
  guest, And fellow podcaster, Leo York.
• 0:32
  Leo is the host of, get this, The 13th Floor.
• 0:38
  How perfect is that?
• 0:40
  He has a few pet tarantulas.
• 0:42
  I'd really be interested to know what kind of food you belly
• 0:46
  up to the bar with the girls.
• 0:47
  and his favorite, is named Pumpkin.
• 0:52
  You couldn't think of a better name.
• 0:54
  To start a show, go On Family Tree Food Stories with Pumpkin
• 0:58
  the Tarantula on Halloween.
• 1:00
  Leo York: absolutely.
• 1:00
  Nancy May: So with that, Leo, let's jump into the show because we talked
• 1:04
  a little bit about hauntings of restaurants, we talk about hauntings
• 1:09
  of barns and houses and whatnot, but there's some famous restaurants out there
• 1:13
  that are haunted that you know about.
• 1:15
  Leo York: Yeah, big time.
• 1:16
  Yeah, I think restaurants might be in the running for places
• 1:19
  most likely to be haunted.
• 1:21
  It's, it's kind of peculiar.
• 1:22
  but, the first entry is in Wisconsin.
• 1:24
  it's a really unique thing, the Walker House.
• 1:27
  And one thing that stands out immediately is it was originally a cave.
• 1:31
  And I can't think of too many places where you could have a restaurant, even
• 1:35
  conceptually, from a cave, but what had happened in the early 19th century,
• 1:40
  there were Cornish miners, and Cornwall in England is known for its mines, and
• 1:44
  it's known for its pasties, which is the food that miners would take into
• 1:48
  the mines with them, you know, these savory pies, because it was easy to
• 1:52
  pack, and you didn't have to worry about getting coal dust on it, because you
• 1:54
  could just throw it away the next day.
• 1:56
  The end little bit.
• 1:57
  the crust, I guess you could say if you got coal dust on it.
• 2:01
  This wasn't a coal mine though, in Wisconsin.
• 2:03
  It was, a limestone mine and they were mining out the limestone and
• 2:07
  they brought their superstitions with them from Cornwall.
• 2:10
  More on that in a lit in a little bit.
• 2:12
  but eventually as this, mine got converted into a little house for the
• 2:16
  miners, it just kept getting expanded upon until eventually it became.
• 2:21
  a tavern slash restaurant, and it's a pretty good size at this point, and it's
• 2:25
  made out of the limestone that, they were drawn straight out of the caves.
• 2:29
  What's interesting about it in terms of, spookiness is a few things.
• 2:33
  One, the co owner, Kathy Valancourt, she says that she's hired, psychics
• 2:37
  and paranormal investigators, and they found several ghosts.
• 2:40
  There was a fella who, was hanged nearby, legally, like, you know,
• 2:44
  wasn't, uh, Wasn't anything
• 2:46
  Nancy May: to the gallows kind of
• 2:47
  Leo York: know, he was off to the gallows.
• 2:48
  apparently people see him, William Caffey, and he's looking for his head.
• 2:52
  I don't know if it came off during the hanging or what, that's surprising.
• 2:57
  there was the lady in black and presumably she helped Lincoln
• 3:00
  ride his Gettysburg Address.
• 3:02
  There's a little girl in a blue dress who runs up and down the
• 3:04
  hallway looking for her room.
• 3:06
  And my favorite ghost at this particular place, There's a cat that presumably.
• 3:11
  Does cat things, it sunbathes, it walks around, it may not even
• 3:14
  know it's a ghost, really, there's a ghost cat at the Walker House,
• 3:17
  Nancy May: So people actually see the ghost cat
• 3:19
  Leo York: people see a cat, people see the Lady in Black, and people see, um,
• 3:23
  William Caffey, there's been several reports of all three, there's presumably
• 3:27
  a lot more ghosts, but those are like the more notable ones in the area,
• 3:32
  Nancy May: geez, I, you talk about, ghosts in restaurants.
• 3:34
  I wonder, Whether any of them ever sat down at a table and had
• 3:39
  a sample of a meal with a guest
• 3:41
  Leo York: you know, that, that might be why restaurants are haunted, maybe there's
• 3:44
  something about the social environment that's kinda nice, and, I don't know
• 3:48
  if they can eat or not, but maybe just being around food is, comforting.
• 3:51
  Nancy May: Yeah, this is, this sounds kind of crazy, but as kids, you
• 3:54
  know, Casper, the friendly ghost, the ghost would eat whatever it
• 3:57
  is and it would fall out of them.
• 3:58
  What a waste of a good steak, right?
• 4:03
  Leo York: Absolutely.
• 4:04
  Well, another weird thing about the Walker House that's very unique is,
• 4:08
  I mentioned that those Cornish miners brought some of their folklore with them.
• 4:11
  And in Cornwall, there's an elf like spirit, usually pretty
• 4:14
  mischievous, and inspired a Stephen King story called Tommyknockers.
• 4:18
  And that's what they're called, they're called Tommyknockers,
• 4:20
  and they're known to haunt mines.
• 4:22
  Well, these Cornish miners claimed that they were Tommyknockers, and
• 4:24
  they would give them little offerings of their pasties in this, area.
• 4:28
  And presumably there are Tommyknockers, it's probably the only other
• 4:31
  place outside of Cornwall where people will say that they exist.
• 4:35
  True to its name, the pub sells pasties and other Cornish fare, things
• 4:39
  that Tommyknockers would like, So,
• 4:41
  Nancy May: do they do mischievous things?
• 4:43
  I mean, they're being offered food, so I guess you could say, They're
• 4:47
  kind of part of the menu, I don't know
• 4:49
  Leo York: yeah, It's, they're, they're mischievous, and so the
• 4:51
  food offerings are to keep things,
• 4:54
  Nancy May: at bay and
• 4:54
  calm
• 4:55
  Leo York: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:57
  Don't cause a cave in at the mines, here's, here's a pasty.
• 4:59
  Nancy May: shut up and eat your meal, of thing, right?
• 5:03
  So there's another one That we talked about, that's in Washington DC as
• 5:06
  well, or is it Washington State?
• 5:08
  Leo York: oh, you're talking about Billy's?
• 5:09
  Yeah, Billy's is in It's in Washington State,
• 5:12
  and it's a weird place.
• 5:14
  I think just alone the history, like even ignoring the ghostly
• 5:20
  elements, is just kind of nuts.
• 5:22
  it was originally a brothel, and that, that alone, you know, there's,
• 5:27
  there's restaurants that were originally brothels, but this one was
• 5:30
  presumably named after a serial killer.
• 5:34
  So, like, why?
• 5:35
  Like, it's just such an odd choice.
• 5:37
  Billy is actually named after Billy Grohl, who was a serial killer.
• 5:43
  Like, that's what they named it after.
• 5:45
  And there were bullet holes where one of the madams, shot a pimp So
• 5:49
  it's, it's got a macabre history.
• 5:50
  And it's one of those places where you get a lot of different, I guess
• 5:54
  you could say sensory phenomena.
• 5:56
  People smell cigarettes, even though cigarettes have been
• 5:59
  banned there for a long time.
• 6:02
  People get
• 6:02
  Nancy May: in a restaurant, that's been banned for years.
• 6:04
  Yeah.
• 6:05
  Leo York: Exactly, but people still smell, I guess, ghost cigarettes.
• 6:09
  And, sudden music, children giggling, and poltergeist activity, like cups
• 6:14
  flying off the wall, things like that.
• 6:16
  So it, it doesn't have a specific ghost, associated with it so much as Auditory,
• 6:23
  Olfactory, and Poltergeist like phenomena, which to me, I associate those kinds
• 6:29
  of things with more, I guess you could say, nefarious places, more malevolent
• 6:34
  places, and this seems to have an air of malevolence about it, because instead of
• 6:38
  seeing somebody like a figure sitting down, you're hearing and smelling and
• 6:43
  seeing, uh, more, more activity than anything, like, again, poltergeist
• 6:48
  activity, objects moving on their own,
• 6:51
  Nancy May: That's almost more frightening if you see something, it gives you an
• 6:54
  idea that at least you think what you see is somewhat real, but when you can't and
• 7:00
  all of a sudden things are flying around.
• 7:03
  That's kind of creepy.
• 7:04
  Leo York: Yeah, full agreement there.
• 7:05
  Yeah, I'd much rather see a specter than a poltergeist.
• 7:08
  Nancy May: I'm not sure I want to see any of them.
• 7:10
  the whole idea of those kind of creeps me out, but I think we're
• 7:13
  fascinated about the idea anyway.
• 7:14
  And years back, my uncle was living in Maryland and I was
• 7:19
  doing a trip down in the DC area.
• 7:21
  And so we met for lunch one afternoon in Annapolis and we had lunch and
• 7:26
  it was the time between the end of the lunch crowd had already gone.
• 7:30
  And the dinner crowd hadn't quite gotten in, and there's a tavern down
• 7:35
  there, or it's called the Middletown Tavern, and you said that taverns
• 7:39
  tend to be the most haunted, or at least it seems like taverns.
• 7:42
  I guess
• 7:43
  Leo York: Something about, something about history and alcohol lends
• 7:46
  itself
• 7:46
  Nancy May: The wild and crazy times at the bar.
• 7:49
  But they said that there were ghosts there, so apparently there's a ghost by
• 7:54
  the name of Ronald who runs around wearing Revolutionary Warrior clothing and looks
• 7:58
  out the window and There you'll smell the smoke of the cigar and occasionally
• 8:03
  he'll toss a glass or plate off the shelf, but after a couple of glasses of wine
• 8:09
  with your favorite uncle and a full meal and I had to change the train back to D.
• 8:14
  C.
• 8:14
  I'm like, oh no, where is the, where is the ladies?
• 8:17
  It was upstairs.
• 8:18
  In a dark hallway, in the creaky, eee, you know, the creaky stairs, eee, eee,
• 8:24
  eee, I'm thinking, oh my god, I can hear the ghost right, right, right now.
• 8:28
  So I'm going up the stairs, and there was a big hall upstairs that
• 8:32
  was closed and dark with the chairs that were lined up against the wall.
• 8:36
  It was probably some event hall.
• 8:37
  But it was dark, and I was alone, and the ladies room was down the hall, and I don't
• 8:42
  think I peed so fast in my entire life.
• 8:47
  Leo York: That should be in the Yelp reviews for that place.
• 8:49
  Nancy May: That's right, go to the ladies room, pee fast.
• 8:52
  Get out of there.
• 8:54
  I didn't see anything, and I drank no more water, just in case I
• 8:58
  had to use the ladies room again.
• 8:59
  So that was my ghost experience.
• 9:02
  But you have another one as well, too.
• 9:04
  Leo York: yeah, this one is very old.
• 9:06
  Early, early 19th century.
• 9:09
  And it's got one of the strangest names, too, and it's called Ear Inn.
• 9:13
  And it's in New York City, But during Prohibition, it was a speakeasy, and it
• 9:18
  managed to stay open after Prohibition, too, and that alone is just really
• 9:22
  impressive, because generally speaking, places that serve alcohol didn't survive
• 9:26
  Prohibition, and so to be that old, and then to make it, you know, That far, and
• 9:31
  then to become a speakeasy, and then to reopen, that's, that's really unique.
• 9:36
  One of the cool things about it is it was used for a lot of different things.
• 9:39
  it was obviously an inn based on the name, and it was a bar and a speakeasy,
• 9:45
  which is just an illegal bar, but it was also used for all sorts of other things.
• 9:49
  it was a place to gamble, it was a brothel, it was a doctor's office.
• 9:53
  just a whole bunch of different uses, which is probably why it stayed that long.
• 9:56
  But one of the most notable things about it is it has a very old ghost.
• 10:00
  And that, is somebody that they call Mickey.
• 10:03
  And this was a place where, a lot of sailors would gamble and drink
• 10:07
  and eat and just enjoy themselves.
• 10:09
  And sometimes it would even be a boarding house for them, so they would stay there.
• 10:13
  until, short leave ended, and as a result, Mickey here is a sailor, and
• 10:18
  he's been waiting for his clipper ship to come back for over a hundred years.
• 10:23
  And so, not only do you have a ghost, but you've got a ghost with a name, and
• 10:26
  a ghost with what appears to be like a past and a personality to go with it.
• 10:31
  Nancy May: So how did they find the name?
• 10:32
  Did they make the name up for them, or?
• 10:34
  is iit they know who this guy is.
• 10:36
  Leo York: I'm assuming they called him Mickey, and I've
• 10:38
  got a theory on that, actually.
• 10:40
  but.
• 10:41
  It's clearly not really his name, but he's wearing, like, old sailor clothes,
• 10:46
  and he's just sitting there and waiting.
• 10:48
  So that's the story behind it, just observing him.
• 10:51
  This is a sailor waiting for the ship to come back, and, you know, he doesn't
• 10:54
  know that it's been a century, probably.
• 10:56
  but as for the name, I have a theory, and I don't know this for sure, but
• 11:01
  there is a, drug that was really popular in Prohibition, In fact, it's one of
• 11:06
  the things that killed Hank Williams.
• 11:09
  and it was, it was called a Mickey.
• 11:11
  And you would hear this, especially in old movies, people would
• 11:13
  make it almost as a thread.
• 11:15
  It was called Mickey Finn.
• 11:15
  And it was named after a guy who actually would incapacitate people and rob them.
• 11:19
  That was what it
• 11:20
  Nancy May: I didn't realize
• 11:21
  Leo York: for.
• 11:21
  Nancy May: drink.
• 11:22
  Yep.
• 11:22
  Leo York: there was a bartender back in the day and, he ran a Lone
• 11:26
  Star Saloon, uh, back in, Chicago.
• 11:29
  And And the, when was that, like, I want to say late 19th, early 20th century,
• 11:34
  but because he was knocking people out with this material, chloral hydrate.
• 11:39
  That's why it got that name, and like, yeah, if you watch old movies, that
• 11:42
  happens all the time, where people talk about slipping somebody a Mickey.
• 11:45
  So, I wonder if, uh, I wonder if people would see this guy, and the
• 11:50
  prevailing theory was, Oh, you're, you're seeing things, somebody slipped Joe
• 11:53
  Mickey, and it just stuck as his name.
• 11:55
  That's my theory, but, you know, I can't
• 11:57
  substantiate it,
• 11:58
  with a
• 11:58
  lot of data.
• 11:59
  There we go, you know.
• 12:01
  Nancy May: I love that.
• 12:02
  speaking of ghosts and restaurants, the Old Union Oyster House in Boston, I guess
• 12:08
  Boston's kind of known for ghosts anyway.
• 12:10
  You've got Salem that's not too far away around the corner, but
• 12:14
  think of Old New England homes.
• 12:16
  My parents had a house down towards the Cape that, was known by the
• 12:20
  locals as Oldfield Farm because the Oldfields had it beforehand.
• 12:23
  And my mom told me after they had left that there were at least two
• 12:27
  incidences where she saw this white smoke come out of their bedroom
• 12:32
  closet, pass over their bed in the middle of the night, and out the door.
• 12:35
  So she thought it was Mrs.
• 12:36
  Oldfield who loved to garden.
• 12:39
  But there was definitely a creepy feeling on the upside of that
• 12:42
  house in the middle of the night.
• 12:43
  Something about going to the bathroom with me and ghosts, but I would get up
• 12:47
  in the middle of the night and I would never open my eyes to go to the bathroom.
• 12:51
  I'd feel my way down the hall and think, okay, I hope I don't feel anything either.
• 12:57
  Leo York: Oh, Yeah,
• 12:58
  Nancy May: but the old Union Oyster House is supposedly haunted in Boston and
• 13:02
  that's got kind of an interesting history.
• 13:04
  It's known as Well, they think it's the oldest restaurant in the United
• 13:08
  States where it was established in 1826,
• 13:11
  and it was first a dry good store.
• 13:14
  So it's been a couple of things too.
• 13:15
  It was the Continental Army paymaster headquarters,
• 13:19
  and then after that, and Oystermen, because oysters were big in Boston,
• 13:23
  they did the oyster fishing.
• 13:25
  I think actually think oyster fishing is stronger in Norwalk, Connecticut today.
• 13:29
  It's one of the bigger oyster areas.
• 13:31
  But, it was Hayes Atwood that, or Hawes Atwood, that was the oyster
• 13:35
  man who built the famous curved bar.
• 13:38
  at the restaurant, and you can see it.
• 13:40
  Anybody who's been to Boston, you'll see it in the front of the door, which big
• 13:43
  front windows that they've got, And as you enter the door, and Danny Webster
• 13:47
  used to hang out there and eat oysters, so I don't know if Danny Webster's ghost
• 13:52
  is there, but, I guess they were trying to be virile eating their oysters.
• 13:59
  But, the other story is that they say the ghost of JFK haunts the restaurant,
• 14:05
  Leo York: Oh, wow.
• 14:06
  Nancy May: so that's kind of cool.
• 14:07
  he hangs out in a, in his favorite booth called the Kennedy booth, and I
• 14:13
  thought, well, jeez, you know, if you hang out at the booth with the Kennedys,
• 14:16
  do you hang out with Marilyn, too?
• 14:19
  Leo York: Yeah, interesting.
• 14:20
  They must have good oysters if you're, you're willing to like, not only uh,
• 14:25
  not let death stand in the way, but to, to be killed in, I think Texas,
• 14:28
  he made his way all the way up.
• 14:30
  Nancy May: Right?
• 14:30
  I never thought about it that way.
• 14:33
  Well, anyway, there's a lot of stories about restaurants that are haunted and I
• 14:38
  don't think about food that's haunted, but certainly restaurants that are haunted.
• 14:42
  There are tons of others that are out there, but those are the
• 14:44
  ones that are the most famous.
• 14:46
  There's the White Horse Tavern in Rhode Island.
• 14:48
  It also has one.
• 14:49
  And, do you know about the Cascades Restaurant at the
• 14:51
  Stanley Hotel in Colorado?
• 14:53
  Leo York: Ah, I know about the Stanley Hotel, but not
• 14:55
  the restaurant in particular.
• 14:57
  Nancy May: Well, maybe it's the hotel that they hear piano music and children
• 15:01
  running around, but they said it was the Cascades Restaurant, so maybe
• 15:04
  Leo York: Interesting.
• 15:06
  Well yeah, isn't the Stanley Hotel, isn't that what inspired the Shining?
• 15:09
  I'm pretty sure.
• 15:10
  Nancy May: Was it?
• 15:10
  Leo York: Yeah, I think so.
• 15:12
  Yeah, like, I've heard stories from multiple people about, at that place.
• 15:16
  It's, it's definitely, um, there's something malevolent and
• 15:20
  strange going on at that place.
• 15:21
  Nancy May: if it's The Shining, it wasn't really a friendly ghost, it
• 15:24
  was kind of a creepy, nasty ghost.
• 15:27
  Leo York: Almost certainly.
• 15:28
  Nancy May: Well, Speaking of ghosts and restaurants, do you have a favorite
• 15:31
  meal that you like on Halloween?
• 15:34
  Leo York: I'm not a picky eater, but when it comes to Halloween, I gotta
• 15:37
  have something chocolatey, and I gotta have, something, uh, autumnal,
• 15:41
  you know, like maybe butternut squash or something like that.
• 15:44
  But, the restaurant.
• 15:45
  Pretty close by to me has, Chocolate Creme Brulee, and I, it's a
• 15:49
  favorite around this time of year.
• 15:51
  Nancy May: I'd say my biggest challenge on Halloween is to stay
• 15:54
  away from the Halloween candy.
• 15:57
  Leo York: Uh, I'm sure.
• 15:58
  Mm.
• 15:59
  Nancy May: but other than that, to me the fall is clam chowder, whether it be
• 16:03
  New England Or, Manhattan clam chowder.
• 16:06
  And I didn't know about this, but just before we left Connecticut and moved
• 16:09
  down to Florida, there's something called Rhode Island clam chowder.
• 16:12
  Have you heard of that?
• 16:13
  Leo York: know, I'm interested.
• 16:15
  Nancy May: So Rhode Island clam chowder is actually a clear broth.
• 16:18
  Leo York: Yeah.
• 16:18
  Nancy May: no cream, there's no tomatoes, there's nothing in it.
• 16:20
  So they just use the clam juice and lots of tomatoes and potatoes,
• 16:24
  and I guess that's, that's it?
• 16:26
  Leo York: That sounds pretty good.
• 16:28
  Yeah,
• 16:28
  Yeah, unfortunately I'm landlocked, but I, I do like, shellfish,
• 16:31
  so yeah, that sounds good.
• 16:33
  Nancy May: Well, on that note, I'm going to ask one last question.
• 16:36
  So, I am not a tarantula aficionado.
• 16:40
  Sorry, Pumpkin.
• 16:41
  But what does Pumpkin like on Halloween?
• 16:44
  Leo York: uh, Umkin, the weirdest thing about her personality, and I didn't even
• 16:48
  know it was a personality quirk until, I started getting other tarantulas and
• 16:52
  realized like, oh, this is just her.
• 16:54
  she is so weird about taking a bath.
• 16:56
  She takes baths all the time, and, And it's very rare at this point for me to
• 17:01
  check in on her at night and not see her over a, I give her water out of a little
• 17:06
  bottle cap, like twist off bottle cap, and um, usually she'll take a bath in it and
• 17:11
  if, if it's empty she'll just stand over it and wait for me to fill it up, so, I,
• 17:16
  I guarantee she'll take a bath Halloween night, that's, that's kind of a guarantee.
• 17:20
  Nancy May: Well, we'll give Pumpkin maybe a spa night on Halloween
• 17:23
  and let
• 17:23
  Leo York: we go.
• 17:24
  Nancy May: A little candle, tarantula candle, a little, I don't know,
• 17:30
  maybe a piece of pumpkin pie?
• 17:32
  Ha, ha, ha.
• 17:35
  of tarantulas having personalities, but thank you for sharing that.
• 17:38
  And
• 17:39
  I hope that you and Pumpkin have a wonderful Halloween and
• 17:43
  maybe share a bite together.
• 17:46
  Leo York: Sounds good.
• 17:48
  Thanks so much, you too.
• 17:50
  Nancy May: That's it, friends.
• 17:52
  We're going to come back with more Family Tree Food and Stories, but
• 17:56
  before we go, please check out our book, My Family Tree Food and Stories.
• 18:00
  There'll be more information and details on that shortly because
• 18:03
  we are launching that or it's releasing on November 1st, next week.
• 18:08
  So stay tuned.
• 18:09
  There's a lot more in store.
• 18:10
  We'll see you soon, and we'll hear you soon.
• 18:12
  Thanks.
• 18:13
  Bye bye.
• 18:13
  And ciao!
• 18:14
  Leo York: Bye.