Latest / Basic Folk / Paul Brady on Tina Turner, Irish Music and Not Being Too Famous, ep. 324

Transcript

Paul Brady on Tina Turner, Irish Music and Not Being Too Famous, ep. 324 · Basic Folk

0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi and welcome to basic folk where we have honest conversations with folk musicians on the blue grass situation.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Cindy House and I host this podcast.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for finding us today.
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Today on the podcast we have legendary Irish musician Paul Brady who has just released a ridiculously massive box set called The Archives.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about that in his whole career.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: coming up in just a minute before we fully get into it.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about ways to stay in touch here.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: The best way to do so is to sign up for our monthly newsletter.
0:49
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0:56
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0:58
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1:01
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1:09
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1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: The link is in the show notes to make your contribution or you can go to basicfolk.com slash donate.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't take a lot to make a difference five bucks a month.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: really helpful.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thanks.
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, it is still summer time.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you are having a good summer.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We are up north of Portland right now.
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in Maine.
1:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fabulous.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Spending some time in the woods with the dog off leash wearing her orange vest so that when she runs off into the woods,
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see her because I do have the dog off the leash anxiety, but, you know, it's helpful to be able to work through it real time.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And the dog is good, you know, she comes back.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've been, that's what I've been working on this summer.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, on to Paul Brady.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob Dylan, once called Paul Brady, a secret hero and mentored as a compliment.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The Irish songwriting legend has not been bothered by the fact that his profile has not risen as high as some of his peers.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Starting off in the world of traditional Irish music, Brady spent some time in the hugely influential Irish group Planckstein until they disbanded in
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: After that, he and bandmate Andy Irving recorded a record together of trad music.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: In nineteen eighty one, he released an album of original songs titled Hard Station that was based on his experience of growing up during the troubles in northern Ireland.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a huge left turn for him stylistically and in being so personal with his writing.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: After that Brady songwriting career took off, he has written songs for Bonnie Rate, Santana, and Tina Turner among many others.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: In our conversation, he reflects on his upbringing and how music served as a reliable companion growing up.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He also discusses his parents' artistic influences, particularly his father's passion for acting and how it shaped his own stage performances.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We touch on themes of perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and the inherent pressures of the music industry.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Additionally, Paul talks about his latest massive box at the archive, which features rare demos, live recordings, and unique collaborations, offering a comprehensive look at his extensive body of work.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll take a listen to a track that is available on the archive.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a live version of his song, Wheel of Heartbreak.
3:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get to our conversation with Paul Brady on basic folk.
4:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Who can keep a money from dancing on the floor?
4:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Who can hold a feeling to this morning?
4:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm who can stop a lover?
4:49
[SPEAKER_03]: From loving you no more?
4:53
[SPEAKER_05]: I must do what I have to keep on earning So much waiting So much waiting So much waiting How much of you drawing my son
5:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not showing too weak of heartbreak Feel it getting, feel it getting, feel it rocking roll Hope we may wait for thee to look
5:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I went for thee to live
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to talk to you.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been like feeling butterflies all day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so pumped.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being on the podcast.
6:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm so pleased to be here.
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very pleased.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So just a little bit of a little bit about me.
6:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sort of grew up in like the Boston folks scene.
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got to see you perform one time at Club has seen and Brian O'Donovan was coordinating that show and he was he was a of pall of mine.
6:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And we miss him dearly.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and DJ.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
6:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've really great.
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been apologize if I mispronounced the name of your hometown.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me try it out.
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Strab on.
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Strab on.
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We did it right.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
6:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have heard you talk about being shy and feeling like a second class citizen growing up Catholic.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: in Strabon, a northern Ireland border town.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was during the troubles and you said, music was my friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It never talked back and never bullied me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What did music and its companionship mean to you growing up and how do you relate to that now?
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it wasn't just during the troubles that discrimination was felt widely in Northern Ireland.
7:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, ever since I was born, which is in the late forties, definitely, we knew we were living in a state that wasn't designed for us.
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So that lasted, yeah, and too large degree has kind of gone now, but it's still a bit there.
7:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Music to me, you know, I was like,
7:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I was very into music from a very early age.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: My mother boasts that when I was eighteen months old, I sang the melody to a song called Now Is The Hour, which was an Anglicized Version apparently of an old Maori New Zealand song, which was a big hit at the time.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: in the UK.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So music was with me from ever and it was the most reliable thing to me in the world because I kind of had a architectural knowledge instinct of what music was.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a new where everything was in the building and any music I heard coming at me, I was able to put into
8:37
[SPEAKER_02]: my musical building in a way that made sense to me, and I was just musical from day one.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Your parents were both teachers and as you were saying really into music.
8:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dad was an actor on the side, but it was his passion and he was a natural at it.
8:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And you weren't necessarily a natural actor.
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I heard that over the course of your career, there would be times where you would try to emulate him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So how have you seen his influence in your stage performances throughout your career?
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, a lot of the songs I write involve personages and people who are communicating with each other.
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[SPEAKER_02]: within the song.
9:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's almost like a little drama, each song that I wrote when I performed, that it was like a little short drama.
9:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always performed the song almost as an actor, as well as a singer.
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And that basically was total influence from my father.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I just loved the way he became someone else when he stood up in front of the people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and I suppose that's what I've always inspired to do, to be, to be kind of larger than life in a way.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do have a question about the beast later on in the interview.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like when you were first learning music, you were talking about this earlier, you had a voracious appetite and a natural talent for music, but you also in turn had a very good work ethic and held yourself to a very high standard when it came to performance.
10:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think from from what I
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[SPEAKER_00]: from what I've discovered, but where did that work ethic and high standard come from and then where are those attributes in you today?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, you know, I always believe you're going to do something to it, right?
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: and that was the same as regarding performance for me.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I always felt a performance was a kind of an entity outside of myself and I was sort of being the conduit for whatever was coming through that I had informed by the song I had just written and I just felt that if I opened front of people I just wanted
11:08
[SPEAKER_02]: be as good as I can be, as I suppose.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And that puts pressure on me, I mean, I am probably a bit of a perfectionist, and that is something which takes a lot of energy away from other things.
11:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny to learn that you sometimes suffer from imposter syndrome and then to hear that you are a bit of a perfectionist, but like
11:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm a highly anxious person, but I'm like a chill anxious person, so like people cannot tell.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you're telling me that you're a perfectionist and you, and I read that you haven't, you haven't posture syndrome from time to time, it's like almost kind of unbelievable because of how naturally you make it seem and how effortless it seems.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: from the outside world.
12:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's exactly, I mean, that explains it exactly, because it's effortless to me.
12:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard for me to hugely value it.
12:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So therefore I go ahead thinking that, if this is just what I feel about it, I mean, I'm not expecting anybody else to feel any better about it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's probably where the imposter syndrome originates.
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to appreciate your baseline, Paul.
12:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, as I get older, I do.
12:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, to be honest, at the moment, I don't really feel I'm even in the music business.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I do what I want to do when I want, you know, I say no more often than than I ever did.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm more and more content
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[SPEAKER_02]: with what it is that I was and I have become and what I've produced.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't go around singing from the rooftops about it, but I know kind of feel that, you know, I did something, you know.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Well speaking of singing, your singing voice is one of my favorites.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How did your singing style evolve?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like who are some vocalists that inspired you and how have you come to relate to your voice?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Talking about baseline here.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, my first audience with my voice, such as it was then, as a teenager in my early twenties, a college, I was like trying to emulate other singers, like Rachel, like Randy Newman, like Tina Turner, even you know.
13:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I was into soul music in a big way in the late sixty-seven days.
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was very much aware of Irish traditional music because if you grow up in Ireland and as a musician, you can't avoid it.
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's everywhere.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it seemed to me to be something that wasn't part of my passion at the time.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: in the mid sixties.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was more into rock and roll on pop music and I'm very pleased about that because I built up a playing repertoire and a singing style repertoire which stood me in good stead later in my career when I came when I fell in love again with Irish music and I began to
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: just fascinated by the whole art of singing and you know it's the stylized nature of singing, the sound of voice as it sings through different traditional disciplines and I began to really just enjoy having fun with on one song
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: singing in a certain way and on the next song singing in a completely different way, stylistically and physically and emotionally.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's always been a very fertile ground for me singing and I suppose fundamentally although I've written a lot of songs and all that, I fundamentally I think I'm just a singer, you know.
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me get this straight.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You are left-handed, but you play guitar right-handed.
15:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You taught yourself guitar when you were eleven.
15:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So you play and you write right-handed, although you kick a football or a soccer ball, with your left foot, which is
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Fun fact, but you know, what challenges are even like amusing things?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Have you come across because of that ambidexturistness?
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm not sure.
16:10
[SPEAKER_02]: about the upsides of the world.
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was forcefully changed as there was a paranoia in Britain and Ireland in the early fifties about kids who were left handed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That they were going to be disadvantaged in later life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Can you believe it's not that long ago?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My mom is left handed and she went through the same thing, except she remained left handed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the prejudice against left-handed people is amazing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you go back to the Latin words, Sinestra, it means the left-hand, the Sinestra, and that came into English as sinister.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:55
[SPEAKER_02]: People with left-handed, you gotta watch them.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was changed around about my age of ten or eleven.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I found that very difficult because I was very into art at the time.
17:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I never quite knew which hand to employ when I was painting and drawing.
17:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also meant that I
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: taught myself guitar, my brain said, I was left-handed, but my hands were singing, I was right-handed.
17:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So I ended up developing a style of playing guitar which was totally weird and individual, I have to say, an unusual, which I think has contributed in some way to the fact, to the sound that I make when I play guitar.
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have, I just have put up with that, you know, except I've accepted it.
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So we were talking about traditional Irish music and at one point you became really well known for your interpretation of that type of music, which you said was always in the background growing up.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as a teen, thanks to the Clancy Brothers, you became more aware after going to college, playing in some bands you've turned to traditional music playing with the Johnston's Planckstee and your duo with Andy Irving.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So performing all these Irish songs that you didn't write, what did that teach you about crawling inside of someone else's experience?
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: What did it teach you about being Irish?
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: What two different questions?
18:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, it was a total of old fasts for me, you know, turning about when I, when I, this were talking in nineteen sixty seven, though, when I was asked to join a folk group, which was famous in Ireland, and I had just come on, on the back of a number one hit with a human recall song, the traveling people, and
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So I probably wasn't hugely into traditional music at the time and I will confess that I joined the Johnston's more as a career move rather than a musical direction change in the beginning.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But before long, when I was in the group, I had fell under the spell of that whole other form of music, my own traditional music.
19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: and bit by bit it began to completely dominate me and I put my whole rock and pop and blues thing to the side for the whole decade basically of the of the seventies and
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a very hugely enjoyable thing to me.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: As I said earlier that I found my voice there, my own voice singing our own songs, the traditional songs and why what I liked about them was they were stories.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: and fellow characters, and as I said earlier, had allowed me to act the most as dramatic events the songs.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this was in the era where a lot of people got up and sang, fifteen verse songs, a really dead palm, without any kind of
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: emotional, obviously emotional input from them.
20:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It was all like very just, let's get it out there.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I always felt that the songs were bigger than that, that they were more exciting than that and they needed a bit of drama in the delivery of them.
20:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So rightly, wrongly, that's the root I took in terms of how I related to those songs and it found a whole lot of voice for me.
20:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.
20:49
[SPEAKER_00]: After hearing jury raffordies Baker Street, you were inspired to write your own songs that would eventually become hardstation, which came out in nineteen eighty one.
20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That record was released when you were thirty four years old.
21:02
[SPEAKER_00]: One major source of inspiration was your childhood growing up in northern Ireland during the troubles.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What was it like to revisit that experience as somebody in their thirties and how did it think it helped you process any leftover feelings?
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I kind of, when I left Northern Ireland, I kind of knew I would never ever live there again because I
21:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't put up with the atmosphere that pertained in that area where you never knew who you were talking to and there was kind of resistance and suspicion all the time and it was just not a place I really felt I wanted to spend the rest of my life and so I moved to Dublin and of course then with the Johnson's I spent three years in London and
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: couple of years in America.
21:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure where we go into this particular piece.
22:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can just alert me to what was it like what the inspiration for hardstation, what was it like to revisit that experience that you had as a child when you were in in your thirty says an adult.
22:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, her station was me coming back to the music that I'd left for the whole seven days, you know?
22:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was a kind of an immediate conversion, as you said, when I heard Jerry Raffey sing in Baker Street.
22:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I knew Jerry Raffey.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Jerry Raffey, at the time, I went to London with the Johnson's, was in the group with Billy Conway.
22:42
[SPEAKER_02]: and Tom Harvey called the humble bombs.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were on the same label as those transatlantic records.
22:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I knew Jerry as a folk singer and I knew he'd be starting to write songs.
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, our past would have crossed at the Cambridge Folk Festival and various places in Scotland.
22:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean a few sessions later at night where he played acoustic songs and
23:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was totally unprepared for hearing Baker Street and immediately I kind of felt this is what I want to do.
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to write songs myself and
23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The only way I could approach that was in a way to cut off what I had been for the previous decade.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And because I didn't know how to write songs, I tried a few earlier in the seventies, where I was still with the Johnston's.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But there were kind of songs that I didn't feel I could stand up behind ten years later.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was new to songwriting in nineteen seventy-nine eighty.
23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew I had a long way to go before I could enter this very rapidly room.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was in a hurry.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in a hurry and I knew that I just had to walk away from trial and music.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I figured out what else was inside me and how to get it out.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
24:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So could you go a little bit into what what that was like because you are hardcore into Irish music?
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You started writing songs in nineteen seventy eight and then hard station came out in nineteen eighty one which is not that many years in between.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So what did you do to get your head out of that trad space like figure out what was happening in popular music and then develop your own style very quickly.
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a bit of a difficult, you know, because by the end of the seventies, I was a solo performer.
24:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I put out welcome here kind of stranger in nineteen seventy eight and I was still I was quite a popular solo performer in the island of the time.
24:51
[SPEAKER_02]: and making a reasonably good living.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I stopped performing in the traditional world, I mean, all that living standard disappeared and I found myself, you know, for two or three years, finding a tough enough to get by financially.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But I knew I had to do it because
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there came a time at the end of the seventies, particularly just when I finished the welcome here kind of stranger album.
25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew that I was never going to be a virtuoso traditional musician.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, and I was always going to be, you know, sort of just have enough chops to support my voice.
25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of felt in a way that if I moved away from traditional music, I wouldn't be
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: leading it forever, that I just had to put it on the back burner.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I said earlier, see what else existed inside me.
25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't hard to do at the time, but it had consequences, which took a couple of years.
26:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it wasn't really until eight, two, eight, three again that I began to make a good live on this musician.
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see.
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Those kinds of consequences.
26:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was that came at a time.
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We had our first child Sarah in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you think being so deep into Irish traditional music impacted the type of writer and musician that you've become?
26:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I mean, I brought with me from traditional music, a loss of melody.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Irish traditional songs are just all about melodies.
26:54
[SPEAKER_02]: They're one line melodies, independently beautiful in many ways.
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to keep, I wanted to write good strong melodies that were memorable.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also wanted to write lyrics that
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: to me were real about what was happening to me and what was happening in the island of the time.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And that would have been another direct line down from what traditional songs were mostly about in the formerly as kind of bringing news from Paris to Paris, you know, stories.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted my songs
27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: to be stories and I wanted them to be strong melodies and not that I issued rhythm or anything because I love rhythm but certainly melody came from folk music into my songwriting.
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You've called yourself politically non-aligned.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about political writing either from others or from yourself like what value do you see in political songwriting?
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I've not only against people who are political songwriters, but I suppose my position stems from a part of my nature, which is a propensity to see all points of view all the time.
28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not a way to be a politician.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: To be a politician, you need to pick on one thing and drive it home.
28:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean,
28:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I would constantly see people in the public eye, in the political arena, saying things, and I would end up saying, yeah, but one about, you know, and so like I was, that's when I say non-aligned.
28:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I've always been suspicious of certainty.
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've always been able to see everybody's point of view.
29:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I'm not suggesting that that's the best way to live one's life, but I kind of have accepted it.
29:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the sort of beast I am, you know?
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go with the beast again.
29:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a question about the island, which is a song that does not appear on the archive.
29:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You wrote the island criticizing the arm struggle during the troubles.
29:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It was released in nineteen eighty six and it was not the cool thing to do at the time to release a song like that.
29:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You were chastised and even attacked.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: How have you reflected on the message of that song since it's released?
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the funny thing is that there's nothing that's so long as saying the modern shouldn't say in a political party here would disagree with not, you know, it's just like back then, thirty years ago or whatever, I'm many years ago with it, fifty years ago.
30:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a different scenario, a different world world together.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: and uh... nineteen eighty six yeah it's not fifty years ago it's almost forty almost thirty nine years ago i was born and eighty two so not quite fifty i was wary of of the big statement from the podium
30:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always saw, it's from the individual's point of view.
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm very reluctant to paraphrase the island because it's such a complex song, even to me.
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know how I wrote it.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a complex, as the problem was, extremely complex.
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Isabel's simplest way to say it is that I've always believed that change happens from the inside out rather than the outside in.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just felt that if we could
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: If we could change the way we related to each other on an individual level, it would make a huge difference in the world.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And rather than big sweeps, gross sweeps of the pan from the podium, you know, you know, that's just my point of view.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I said, I don't like to paraphrase the island.
31:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It took me by surprise and still does to be honest.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Powerful song.
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: As an Irish musician who's found popularity in the United States and beyond, like how responsible do you feel in representing Northern Ireland and Ireland's history and what it means to be Irish?
32:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it doesn't certainly back like a heavy weight, you know, but I do see all around me in Ireland, a huge amount of great music, not all of which gets its fair time in the public's eye.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think we're a musical people, and I think that we have a strong individual stamp
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: to the style of music we make and I'm proud of that and I'm proud to be part of us.
32:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's nice when people outside Ireland get it.
32:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's, I think the Irish, do you, or something you have to get?
32:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the same as American view on things, musically.
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a whole different animal alter.
32:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't really say beast.
32:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a whole lot.
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a whole lot around them all all together.
33:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's own thing.
33:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm happy to be
33:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And amongst us.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We should do like like a Mark's Brothers like secret word on basic folk during interviews.
33:15
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have people guess what the secret word is.
33:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously this interview would be beast.
33:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You've had many other high-profile artists cover your songs, Bonnie Rate, Santa Ana, Tina Turner, was a big one for you, and she recorded your song, Steel Claw, on her album Private Dancer.
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: She went on to cover Paradisees here, which you said, that's a song that expresses my feminine side, so it was good fit for Tina.
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So how does songwriting and you weren't specifically writing Paradisees here for a woman, but in terms of like,
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Thinking about like the women's perspective, writing songs, thinking about maybe a woman would record this song.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: How does that help you understand your feminine side?
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, dear, dear, that's a hard question.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'd start off by saying, I've only once ever in about three hundred songs written a song to commission.
34:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And in that case, the artist didn't record it.
34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I never write songs for people.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I always write songs for myself and as not expression of who I am at the moment I'm writing and or who I am in my memory of who I might have been or who I might aspire to be in the future or whatever.
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So all the covers I've had have been accidental largely, you know, I mean
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the Tina Turner thing happened by accident.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: When her manager Roger Davies, her manager at the time, who took her from obscurity, which she had sung to in the seventies, and decided he was going to her, you know, Harold, her comeback.
35:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He was looking for songs for her first album, and he approached my manager at the time Ed Bicknell.
35:12
[SPEAKER_02]: who was managing dire straits at the time, and asked did he have any, you know, with Mark Knopfler have any songs that might suit Tina as a turneder.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: He did the song, Private Dancer, which became the title track of the album.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But Roger asked, do you have any other artists?
35:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I have this Irish singer-songwriter Paul Brady and he's written a lot of songs and he's possibly got a song that would suit Tina.
35:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how that happened.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, that might never have happened if Ed and had not had dinner, you know, that night.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, it's a huge honor once anybody else wants to record your song.
35:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge validation of your song and by extension, you're sorry, self, you know.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's always a bit of a shock in the arm.
36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, and it didn't hurt, you know, career wise in terms of, you know, I had a lot, not a lot of covers from major artists at a time when there was still some money in the publishing world, you know, so I was lucky.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm very grateful that, but I'm also
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: encouraged and made a little more confident by the fact that so many people have related to nonsense, I was written about and liked what I've had to say for myself.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's made me feel a little bit more confident in the words.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is a question that's kind of on that, uh, that same vein.
37:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit of a setup, so settle in here.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob Dylan famously called you a secret hero.
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's an abridge version if people don't know the quote from Dylan.
37:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, people get too famous too fast these days and it destroys them.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He named checks you, Tom waits, Leonard Cohen and others at guys who got it down.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: which is like cool to be named check by Bob Dylan but then it's like basically a backhanded compliment.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've said of the topic, it had never particularly bothered me that I wasn't getting the same attention from the media because that comes with its downsides.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get the downside of it but I was always delighted to be included with my fellow peers which you were just speaking to.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: how did you like come to that conclusion like when did it start feeling better to hold company amongst your musical comrades versus like getting the fame, getting the fortune?
38:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I just I never liked the the fame aspect of it to be honest.
38:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's nice to be recognized and and, you know, when I go out and Ireland, like I was, I would, I want to see Bonnie Radlast night and time and, you know, I course I was recognized
38:19
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, by lots of people at the gig because I'm well known and Ireland, you know, and that's nice, but that's a sort of a one-on-one, you know, peer thing.
38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The whole media of promotion was something that scared the life of me and I just never felt, I never felt I could meet up
38:43
[SPEAKER_02]: with the demands that were thrown at me.
38:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I was with measure record labels, you know, it was always, how are we going to get Paul on the daytime radio?
38:53
[SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to get him hit?
38:54
[SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to get this, you know, can somebody clean him up?
38:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Bloody blah, you know, you know, I mean, I just hated all that shit, you know, and, you know,
39:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And but it came with the territory like, you know, in many instances, if you didn't have that attention, you didn't make a good living.
39:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had to balance these things all through my career.
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I just go close enough to the more of the promotion animal to try and make them feel that I wasn't sort of
39:31
[SPEAKER_02]: being holding back and frustrating them.
39:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I would pull away as soon as I felt I was getting in trouble.
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I just never felt comfortable in the world, in the front line of fame.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I felt it was just, I like to say I never felt out of fashion because I was never in fashion.
40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: How was Bonnie last night?
40:02
[SPEAKER_02]: She was stunning.
40:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That was her second night in Dublin.
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was there.
40:08
[SPEAKER_02]: She came in about a week before the shows.
40:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And we hung for a while.
40:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's singing better than ever.
40:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And the band is stonking, you know?
40:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It is just two great shows.
40:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she's off to England, tomorrow and then over to Europe and it's great to see her still struggling her stuff.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's very cool.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So your latest is this huge collection called the archive.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And it came about thanks to working with Malcolm Mills of the last music company, which is a record label in England.
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You said he likes dealing with artists like me, whose music he enjoys, but haven't been famous enough to like the average man of the street unless you're an Ireland.
41:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that you Paul, you have come across all kinds in the music industry, but what does it mean to work with people like Malcolm who value your talents and gifts over your massive amounts of fame and how hard is it to find those people?
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like pretty much everything that's happened in my career has happened by accident.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: The people that met that have been instrumental in lifting me up have always been accidental.
41:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was with Malcolm, he approached me two or three years ago just
41:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, to say that he was setting up his own label and he was interested in artists, you know, who he felt the music has value, but that weren't like if you like at the forefront of the public's imagination all the time.
42:06
[SPEAKER_02]: He started to take over my catalog and he came up with the idea of the archives.
42:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I had just released a book, an autobiography called Crazy Dreams in, at twenty-twenty-two.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And he had read that in a way that had cemented his notion that I might be an artist that he would like to work with.
42:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we met loads of times.
42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It took about a year to put the archives together.
42:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was a great pleasure to do it because I found myself gravitating towards an awful lot of stuff that, you know, the first home demos of songs that later became very well known in a professionally recorded sense.
43:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I heard them initially back when I wrote the song, I kind of thought, well, you know, that demos very crude and, you know,
43:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, nobody's going to want to listen to that, you know, and I have to go and read recorded for real.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: When I started in the archive, I began to find all these old demos that I made and I began to think
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, there was a great spark of life in all that and, and, and, and why did I kind of close them off and so so the archive is about lots of homes stuff I've done.
43:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Also lots of collaborations with other artists that only appeared once off on an album compilation album or something and you know, as gone by the wayside.
43:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Some live stuff.
43:53
[SPEAKER_02]: some, you know, remixes of stuff that I never felt, I got quite right.
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a booklet with about sixty pages of, of memorabilia, which is lots of, you know, articles, interviews, photographs, posters from the last fifty years, you know?
44:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard your mom had a lot of that stuff.
44:17
[SPEAKER_02]: She did, yeah, my mother kept loads of scrapbooks, you know,
44:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing to see some of the stuff now, yeah.
44:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, I think if you're familiar with my music and you like it, well, I think this archive is, we should give you a lot of fun because it could, you know, I'm sort of a lot of questions you might have had about who I was, what particular time and, you know, and, you know, if you, if you don't know anything about me, there's a few tracks on it that certainly might grab your attention.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
44:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to go back to the topic of perfectionism because listening to you talk about listening back to an old demo or at the time, you're like, oh, no one's going to want to hear this.
45:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of sounds like a perfectionist monster taking over.
45:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like did that occur to you while you were going through the songs that could be included on the archive?
45:18
[SPEAKER_02]: No, well, I mean, I was exactly the opposite.
45:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I put the perfectionists out of the grass and kept them outside.
45:27
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you do it, Paul?
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I grew a lot older.
45:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It happened rather than me doing it.
45:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
45:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so close to it that I can't really tell, you know, but I mean, loads of people have come up to me saying that it's the perfect thing for me to do with this time of my career.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's sixty-four tracks on it.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Four CDs.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: No vinyl folks, I know, but believe me, the CDs on this way back.
46:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You heard it from me first.
46:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So like you're saying, there are so many songs on this collection and it features all the different types of music that you've played over the course of your career.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It just seems like a massive undertaking to sequence this collection of music.
46:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So what was your approach in arranging the order of the songs?
46:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I suppose, you know, there's four CDs, so I kind of felt each CD should start with a bit of a bang.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so I kind of, some of the more sex here still faceables, I, I stuck at the start of the CDs and then they're only by the middle of the CD.
46:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I'm going all kinds of interspectors and by the end of the, of the CD.
46:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more hasoteric, it's the CD goes on.
46:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and at the end of the CD there's always a weak slap in the face just in case you thought you you figured it all out
47:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is actually not the first time you've looked back over your career.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking of, like, in two thousand one, you played all those shows at Vickers Street in Dublin with many special guests where you revisited much of your extensive catalog.
47:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So in general, like, what do you enjoy about looking back?
47:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how does it help you in moving forward?
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And how does it help you stay in the present?
47:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's kind of weird because back back in in in in in two thousand and one I was getting lifetime achievement awards and I'm going, you know, hey guys, here here here I am twenty eight five years later still here folks, you know, so it's like, do you want me to move the sides?
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: No, so I think most I think a large part of my
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Best work was done in the in the in the nauties and and I'm very proud of all those albums I put out down and you know I can't believe how long I've been in this business you know and how I'm still kind of you know enjoying it big big time
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll do one more question and then a really quick lightning round.
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And guess what this question is about.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, it's about the beast, which is what you call your on stage appearance.
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I understand if you don't play shows for a while, it's kind of hard for you to sit down or even like sit still.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You love when you get to be on stage.
48:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you're just, quote, left-feeling like Paul Brady.
48:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: How does the beast help you when you're being Paul Brady?
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how do they overlap in like a venn diagram?
48:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's, it's not, it's, it's not really an overlapping.
48:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a complete change of personality.
49:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I become inhabitants by, by,
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: an alter ego or another person or let me, let's call it the beast.
49:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I almost just opened myself up and I don't know what's coming next half the time.
49:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never been a, you know, I've played with loads of artists and they go out on, I mean, I've opened for lots of artists.
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: in the past and they go out on stage and they play the same thing every single night almost to the note, you know.
49:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the complete opposite of that.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know what I'm going to play next.
49:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I just blur it out and that's because in a way I've got out of the way.
49:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I've let this beast come through that seems to
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: No more about me getting a strange way that I know myself.
50:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
50:05
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Paul, quick lighting around and then I'll let you go.
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So in thinking of growing up, what would your parents have brought to the neighborhood potluck?
50:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the partner neighborhood park lock means.
50:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like everybody gets together for a big dinner and somebody in each person brings a dish like a homemade dish.
50:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
50:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the term for that in Ireland?
50:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't happen in Ireland.
50:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
50:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
50:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a mishmash of dishes.
50:38
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
50:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really like to that.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand that concept at all.
50:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You mean like a community that gets together?
50:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, has a meal?
50:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a, or just like a group of friends, you're having dinner and it's a potluck and everybody brings a dish and the host is like, I'm gonna make a roast and then everybody brings side dishes.
51:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
51:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, people didn't eat out or even, when I grew up in the fifties in Ireland, people didn't go to dinner and all of our people's houses, you know, there was none of that.
51:17
[SPEAKER_00]: This question is bombed.
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks so.
51:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be that one.
51:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
51:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I learned something though.
51:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no pot look in Ireland.
51:26
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
51:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Next question, what is your sound check song?
51:30
[SPEAKER_02]: My sound check song at the moment is harvest time from an album called unfinished business.
51:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I came out around, I don't know, twenty, fifteen or something.
51:44
[SPEAKER_02]: because it allows me to reach all parts of my voice in a short space of time.
51:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've only started, I actually never, ever did warm-up exercises for my voice in my entire career until about a year ago.
52:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I lost my voice at a concert in Belfast, which wasn't to do with my voice per se.
52:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I had an infection which hit my voice and I lost it for ten days.
52:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of scared me.
52:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I took me quite a while to feel like singing again.
52:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So since that's about a year and a half ago, I've started
52:31
[SPEAKER_02]: doing vocal exercise now.
52:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I marry them up with finger exercises.
52:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I have one of these little hard, hard balls that you squeeze to tighten the muscles in your arms.
52:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So I exercise my fingers and my voice at the same time.
52:49
[SPEAKER_00]: My gosh, hilarious.
52:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
52:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your favorite mythical creature?
52:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, dear.
52:58
[SPEAKER_02]: A bear made.
53:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
53:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
53:02
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the last one.
53:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the most beautiful place you've ever been?
53:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh dear.
53:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh dear.
53:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't answer that.
53:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That one bomb too.
53:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm afraid so.
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sorry.
53:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
53:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the, yeah, it's fine.
53:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I appreciate talking to you.
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a blast getting ready for this interview and listening to all your music and I had a lot of fun.
53:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Good, thanks.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I enjoyed talking to you, Cindy, and I hope this recording of my own will win this way to you without salt.
53:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure it will.
53:41
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode of Basic Folk was produced by Anthony Cabrera.
53:45
[SPEAKER_00]: The trick Strauss composes our music.
53:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Basic Folk is on the Bluegrass situation podcast network.
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find all of our episodes there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can check us out on folkalli.com or folkalli's mobile app.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can search for basic folk on the Series XM app.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can go to our website, basicfolk.com or find us wherever you get your shows.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoyed this episode, maybe you should share it with a friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps a friend that really enjoys that Magnar's hard cider or a nice Guinness every once in a while and just really enjoys a good traditional Irish tune.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Send it to that friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, thanks for listening all the way to the end.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you next time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.