Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Michael Donkor - From Stockbroker to Financial Planner & Personal branding on Social Media

Transcript

Michael Donkor - From Stockbroker to Financial Planner & Personal branding on Social Media · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Michael Doncor.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Michael is a financial planner in the City of London, and he shares with us today his career journey from personal banking into stockbroking and trading into financial planning.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about those transferable skills that he learned within stockbroking and why he decided then to become a financial planner.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: He shares with us the first couple of years of being a trainee financial advisor.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what to expect and really how to position yourself.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he shares some hints and tips around this.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as like many other financial planners, he is working on his own personal brand.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: So he shares with us today about his own personal brand experience, the challenges he's coming up against, and the successes that he's had.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this segment of the podcast will be really interesting to anybody who's looking to elevate themselves online.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Also, as well, we talk about what it's like being a black man within financial services.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Today I am joined by Michael Doncor, who is a financial planner uh in the great city of London.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Michael, thank you very much for joining me today.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: No worries, buddy.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You good?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm great.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm great to be fair.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, just kind of getting my stride together with work and um you know, just you know, trying to cope with this whole COVID situation, yeah, right.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And everything.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm in a good place.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mentally, I'm in a good place.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what's important at the moment that I I feel positive about things in general, even though you know there's a lot going on and a lot to be worried about.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I feel okay.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good man.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, what were you were you sort of um working from home during COVID?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, did you have an office and all of that in in London?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Were you working with part of a team or have you always been home-based flexible?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Did it affect your working life at all?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it did.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I I was previously working um at a practice in Canary Wharf uh in February, um, left that practice, um, was was looking to move into a new practice um around March, April, I think it was April, and then um the COVID um and lockdown situation happened, and that just kind of shifted things.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was mainly because I was considering an employed role and um, you know, the the practices that I was speaking to um naturally wanted to kind of wait it out and see how things were.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for a couple of months I was pretty much um at home with the family, um not doing too much, just catching up with people.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I would say freelancing, but just doing a bit of work with with a few odd people.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I finally got into a role, uh, one of the other things I had to do was wait for my license.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um, naturally, when you move into certain companies um in the financial industry, you need to be um regulated by the FCA.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I had to wait for my license, which took a couple of months before I could actually uh get off the ground, basically.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's interesting then, because obviously I went a recruitment agency and very what similar things happened.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a great big pipeline of candidates that you know had all accepted offers and were all due to start.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And all these companies were like, Well, we can't get them to start now, we don't know when they're gonna start.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we lost this great big pipeline of business.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: I nearly lost my mind.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then and now you're thinking, shit, when are these guys gonna start?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you were one of the you were one one of those people really, because it affected obviously affected me as a as a as a recruiter and and a great, big, great big pipeline, and a team of people that were hoping their candidates would start and they'd be earning some bonuses and all that sort of stuff.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, on the other end of it, there are people like you that were in limbo, you know, you couldn't start the job.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And was that an employed?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So were you going from and were you going into an employed role or were you going to a self-employed employee role?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was kind of weighing up the option of an employed role with um this whole COVID situation, and um, you know, me still feeling like uh um fairly new in the industry because I've been doing it for about three years, and I've I've every time I've I've gone to certain places or spoken to people, especially the more experienced advisors, they've been in the game for like 15-20 years or so.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was I was kind of looking at an opportunity to to learn off a few other people as well, um, and and go into an employed role.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, the you know, some of the companies that I was looking at um had to hold back because they they wasn't sure whether they should be recruiting anybody and um they just needed to recalculate everything and make those decisions.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um that just left me in limbo.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, right.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so were you sort of screwed on salary and stuff like that?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have an income coming in?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, um I had just savings that I was uh using, and um you know, I was waiting to move into a eventually into a self-employed role, yeah, with another practice.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I signed up with that company, um naturally for me to start advising fully, I had to get my FCA license, and that took um about a couple months.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a big delay, wasn't there?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: There was a huge delay on that getting people authorized.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, these things happen, isn't it?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny though, because yeah, it's frustrating, but you know, we we're talking about it today because obviously the news came out yesterday, and we're sort of sitting there thinking, oh for God's sake, I hope we don't have to go through all of this again, you know, it's very stressful.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: But hasn't it gone so quickly?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such a difficult, it was such a difficult time.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, dare I say use the word unprecedented because it's been bashed around so many times.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it was, it was really difficult, and it was because we no one had a clue what was going on and how we're gonna pay the bills and all that type of stuff.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's amazing how we get through it, you know, the resilience and we get through it, and we come out come out the other side.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this kind of news yesterday, nobody wants to see COVID sort of fire up again, nobody wants to go into a lockdown.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't believe that's going to happen.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but at the same time, kind of I think people this time though, everybody I'm speaking to just seems to be more positive about it and being a bit more pragmatic and um more sensible about it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like you don't have to send everybody home.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to make sure that it's clean and that people can, they're not sitting on each other's laps, and you know, we've we've we've sort of moved into technology so we can do video talk and you know, people can still go into offices, you're not banned from going in your office until there's unless there's a complete lockdown again, which I don't think will happen.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think we'll be okay.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we're moving in the right direction.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it felt like uh I mean, the first time it was a panic, wasn't it?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like nobody knows what's going on, nobody knows where they're gonna be, if they're still gonna be in their jobs, if there's even gonna be any jobs uh going forward, and then they locked everyone down, and you couldn't go anywhere, and everyone's buying up all the toilet paper and the what was that about?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: That was mental.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: You look back on that, and it's like, what are you doing, you lunatics?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: That is so weird, isn't it?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like looking back on people's mentality, it's crazy because it it did create all of that um paranoia, you know, and being at home, and you know, I remember being at home and thinking, like, I'm down to one toilet roll, like am I not gonna be able to get the toilet roll for the family, and just thinking that literally there's no toilet roll around, and and this was the main like vein of my life at the time, you know, in terms of what was going on, besides the fact that I was waiting to move into another job and I couldn't get one, and and just kind of floating around a little bit.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just a crazy time, but I think I got through it with having the family around, you know, um building a routine, yeah, uh building a routine for the kids because I needed to keep them motivated, keep them um positive.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: They had no idea what was going on as well.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a bit of an educational uh side of things for for them as well and for us as as parents, and um, you know, just trying to keep everyone in in the kind of positive mindset, really.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, man.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right, great.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: So you're on the Financial Planner Life podcast today.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: As I sort of mentioned to you, the podcast is all about really talking about your experiences of being a financial planner, how you got into the industry, the ups and downs, and stuff like that to hopefully inspire other people, our listeners, and um hopefully we'll talk about a few other things about financial planning as well that um might not get spoken about.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um, what would be really great for our listeners and for me to understand would be um first off, not everybody grows up saying, I want to be a financial planner when I grow up.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I always love to start with understanding how is it you got into financial services and why did you choose to become a financial planner?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit funny.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was um when I left uh university, um I started working in the bank.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was working based in East London.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was there for about close to two years, and I was in a personal banking uh capacity, so I was you know kind of doing the meet and greet, opening accounts, credit cards, loans, um, you know, and then it got to a position where um I started working alongside the mortgage advisors and the financial advisors in the branches, and that was my first experience of kind of financial advice.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um I had a financial advisor that that was going across various branches and um meeting clients, and I was kind of like, I want to do what you do, and um started to speak to him a bit more about his role, start to understand that, and and that's when I got the first taste of kind of financial advice, financial planning.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a lot of what I was doing was, you know, somebody will come in, um, they would have maybe a concern about something to do with their bank account, and I might speak to them about um insurance or pensions or just any anything outside of that, and then direct them to the financial advisor, and then they might end up um becoming a client of his.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that just really interested me.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what I essentially did was try to uh move into that role at the bank that I was in, and um they said to me that um I'd need to move into mortgages first, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which was a little bit weird for me because I in my head I was thinking, I want to do financial advice.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you moving me into mortgages?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I didn't understand at the time, and I was a bit frustrated, and I basically started doing a bit of digging around and um noticed the the CIFA, the certificate for financial advisors at the time.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So this was about 2009, 2010.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I remember going back to my manager to say, look, you know, I'll be honest, I just found this qualification, I could probably do this and just go to another bank and um be a financial advisor.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bit, you know, kind of cheeky of me, but I I I kind of thought that this was the path, and um, they didn't really want to help me with that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I left the bank, started studying that qualification, did the first exam, which was like the UK regulation exam, and somehow stumbled across um my CISI uh level three exams for securities, and just switched into that and started studying uh to be a broker.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was a bit weird.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of shifted my energy from that kind of financial aspect into trading and investing and became a broker after I got my qualifications for that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ended doing that, ended up doing that for about six years, six or seven years.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I turned 30, I think I got to a point where I was like, you know, I'm actually ready to get into this properly and take this seriously, start thinking about the long term.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I made the jump into wealth management and financial advice.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it started at the bank then.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's very common that a bank would want to then push you down the route of becoming a mortgage advisor before you became a financial planner.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I was about to tell you that was very much the training ground for financial planners, you know, pre pre-RDR.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when we had loads and loads of financial advisors going around, the bank shutting all their advice side down completely killed the training ground for good financial planners.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, not too keen on mortgages, you decided to then step outside of that, do your CIFA qualification with a blast in the past there.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then whilst doing that, you understood that, oh, actually, there's another area here, it's stockbroken, it's investment management, and you looked at the CISI qualification.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Again, not unusual.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the world of stockbroken investment management sounds quite sexy, doesn't it?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like 22, 23 at the time, and I was at that mindset, you know, I want to be uh Wolf of Wall Street, yeah, in the room at the time, you know, those kind of films I was watching, and um, you know, I I just really was interested in you know, kind of trading the market and not knowing that there was a difference between being a trader and being a broker, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then did my qualifications, I did my level three um in um securities.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um once I got that, um, I found a role as a junior broker or junior equity dealer, so to speak, and um moved into that profession.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I was doing that for about a year and a half.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's the difference then between trading and stock breaking?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when you know, being a broker is is all about being the middleman.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you're essentially um on the sales side, you're you're on the phone, you have your clients, you know, um your research department might have um investment opportunities for you to present to your to your clients.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: You may have some of your own, and you're effectively calling your clients to trade uh on their behalf.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I would be advising them on investments that we felt as a company um could benefit them and advise them to put a certain amount into investing in the market.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um now the difference between that and a trader is a trader is usually someone that's sitting in front of the screen trading, you know, maybe prop trading, uh trading the company's money, trading for their own in terms of their own uh finances as such, um, and making money for the company.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um the broking side was more of a kind of like a sell-oriented role because it was a lot about being on the phone, um, speaking to your clients daily, uh keeping them up to date with their portfolios or their trades, um, and you know, telling them when to buy and more importantly, telling them when to sell.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot more interaction with the client.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: I suppose in that role as well, you're dealing with the highs and lows.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: You could be phoning your client up and sort of telling them about something fantastic or something brilliant that's just happened with their investments, but at the same time, you're telling me you just lost a shitload of money.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So and I was, you know, kind of in the space where I was looking at um small cap shares, so the aim um industry, the aim market, as well as the main market.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there'll be times where you know, naturally we would inform clients of the risks, but there'll be times where you you know you have to make that call and say, Oh, I'll just let you know like you lost all your money on that investment, or you know, that investment's gone up 30, 40 percent, what you want to do about it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, they're not always nice conversations uh to have, um, but the whole emphasis of that role is to um you know keep keep going, keep trading, keep finding ideas for the client uh to benefit from, hopefully.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, you know, keep it, keep it going basically.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you just have to get a bit of thick skin because you you got used to some some clients not being happy with stuff, you know.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's kind of a very uh fickle industry, you know.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes sometimes the investment goes well and and you're their best friend, and then when it goes bad, they hate your guts and they don't want to pick up the phone to you, and you know, it happens, and you just have to get some thick skin and get used to it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So when you look at the films like Ball for Ball Street and whatnot, yeah, you know, is what's the reality of of working as a broker or as a trader?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a bit sort of work hard, play hard?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it a bit like that, or is that quite false, that image?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think when I was there, it it was like that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably more so because the guys that I um learned from, they they were really serious about um, you know, you get in on time, um, you take things seriously, you you do your trades, um, you take care of your you own your stock.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we allocate something to you, you make sure that you find um someone to to to to place that stock to.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you take ownership of that stock.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that that was that always stuck to me in terms of you know how I um operated on a day-to-day basis.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was you know, kind of work hard.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you would get rewarded, and and not just from a monetary uh way, but you know, the guys that I was working with, um, the guys that were managing me and mentoring me, um, you know, they they it was like a family unit, you know, would take they'll take me out, they'll put an arm around me, and you know, well done, let's go out for a drink, let's let's let's stay in touch.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was it wasn't just uh, you know, you go into the office, they shout at you the whole day, and then you go home and you you start crying in your bed because you got well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was really um a tight-knit uh network, which which I really enjoyed that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, as I kind of got went through my process and my experience because I eventually became uh a manager of um brokers and and training um certain individuals, you know, I felt I felt that kind of disappeared a little bit because I felt there wasn't much discipline there.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the the younger generation um kind of assumed that it was an easy win.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you get in and you know, you get on the phone and you make a few trades and then you go down the pub and have a piss-up and then you know, happy days from there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there was a lot of hard work in it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember you know getting so many no's and you know um having I remember one time I um when I was first started out and you know jumping on the phone and trying to call a client and it didn't go as well as I thought.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um I won't say his name, but the guy that was mentoring at the time just grabbed the phone to put the phone down.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that was shit, let's start again.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, that that kind of stuff just sticks to me because it it just reminded me that you know I need to be um I need to be prepared when I'm when I'm going into these kind of situations and um you know at least be confident in in what you're about to say and how you're about to go about things, even if it doesn't go as planned, even if it doesn't go in your favor.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just about being um prepared.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of the time a lot of um the guys that I ended up dealing with later on in life were just from what I saw, um, thought that they they could just walk into the role and just um you know make money, and it it wasn't like that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: A bit of an ego trip, like you know, someone thinks they're a bit special, thinks they're a bit cool, they can walk in there, do the job no matter what, but actually it's tough as nails, isn't it?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I think it I think also it's a bit of entitlement, and it might be, you know, with this kind of new age, um this new day where um you know being politically correct and you can't do certain things, and you know, I it's funny because I remember stuff like you know, it is I'll probably get in trouble for some of this stuff, but I remember stuff like having to do push-ups if I if I if I didn't do the right trade and stuff like that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I I used to appreciate that more because in my head, you know, it was do push-ups or lose money because I was either getting cut on my commission or I was doing push-ups, and I'd be happy doing 20-30 push-ups.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, you know, when I got into that role and I was trying to ill instill that, they were like, No, I know my rights.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh mate, you're talking to like this.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: I run a recruitment company, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: When I the this I'm four, I'm thirty well, I'm 39 next week.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now I totally get where you're coming from.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this whole snowflake generation, this is the thing we've got to be kind of careful with because you know, there are things that shouldn't happen.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one guy I know.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's one guy I know used to make make kids dress up in a chicken outfit and make them run run around town in a chicken outfit, you know, stuff like that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's wrong, you know, because it's bullying and stuff.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, there were some things that I had to do, go through that hard way.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I look back on it and I think, you know what?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: No pain, no gain.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it builds, I think sometimes it builds character.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we're kind of worried as managers now to even kind of say anything to try to instill a bit of I don't know, like grit, yeah, because you're worried you're gonna upset somebody and they're gonna take time off.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And they're definitely like people are well more entitled and people only my recruiters are gonna be listening to this, they're gonna be kicking my ass.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: But honestly, I'm the nightmare.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've had to step away from it because I'm more on the marketing side now, because my style and my approach is direct.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I I'm I'm like David Goggins, mate, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I want I'm about just like stay hard, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it can it can screw people up a little bit and um the last thing you want to do is that it was a crazy time and you know I I loved it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it so much because I think it really built me as a as an individual, you know.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't always as as I didn't always feel as confident as I as I have been.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of that helped, you know, a lot of that helped because I and again, you know, I wouldn't I don't want to touch on colour all the time, but you know, I was I was like the the the the the the one black guy in the in the building making trades and you know I'll be on the phone and I'll be conscious about whether the guy on the other end knows that I'm black or yeah they are familiar, they can hear my if I might have a bit of a twang in my voice and they can tell.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at certain times it would it would happen then feeling uncomfortable in some scenarios, but you know, you just kind of got used to it, you know, and it and eventually didn't become a disadvantage, you just just kind of used it to my advantage, really.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think as well being black as a broker and predominantly being telephone?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is it predominantly telephone-based work?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was predominantly telephone-based at the time.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So moving from like stockbroking trading and then moving into financial planning when you then become more face-to-face, did you feel more uncomfortable being a black man and becoming a financial planner?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously there aren't a great deal of black financial, there's no huge amount of black financial planners.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you think about financial services, you think middle-aged white man, don't you?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm thinking moving from telephone bases where perhaps you've built that confidence up to then move face to face.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel um nervous at all when you met clients?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to say no, obviously.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a little bit, a little bit, because you know, it's all about first impression, you know.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um naturally on the phone, you you don't need to worry too much about that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the relationship, it's about the communication, you know.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I got used to being able to kind of uh speak to people over the phone and and I wouldn't say read them, but understand what they were saying and and have a conversation with them in a certain way.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, kind of walking into um financial advice and and going into a meeting and them not knowing what I looked like and questioning whether that would be a problem.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a conversation you have with yourself, it is something that you you do sometimes build up those walls that you're gonna walk in and think, oh, maybe this guy, you know, might, like you said, I might meet an old uh 50-year-old white guy and he might he might think, What's this?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who's this young black kid here trying to tell me how to um manage my money?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that kind of thought does run through your mind sometimes.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's one of those things where it is you, it's it's you that's creating that paranoia, that yeah, um anxiety, and you just have to go in with confidence that you know you know what you know, you are who you are, and if they like you, they like you, if they don't, they don't, and and just kind of you know go with the flow.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And have you uh so you know, I see as we're on the subject of it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever experienced any prejudice or racism um being a financial planner or working in financial services?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so um I I guess the best way to put it would be um I'd say I don't think I could prove it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's usually what what this whole racism uh conversation is about.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a lot of the time you can't always prove that someone's being racist to you, but but you almost can feel it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there's been a few conversations I've had, especially when I was broken, because I think what was funny about the broken side was um there'd be times when I'd go through conversations with people and then they'd realize later on that I was black, and then that was a surprise and my oh yeah, um, my friend down the road is a black guy as well.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have coffee together, you know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just one of those things, and and when I went into the space of um meeting people, I think sometimes if I went and did the first meeting and I didn't get a second meeting, I would question if it was because I was black, but I'd never be able to tell, you know, there's no way for me to tell.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone, nobody's outly right said, hey, look, you know, I don't really deal with these guys, so uh, I think we just leave it from here.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but sometimes you might get the feeling, and and I think that's why it's it's a bit hard to have those arguments sometimes because you can feel it, but if you go back and tell somebody and they don't understand and they don't really uh experience those feelings, then it's hard for them to even believe you.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think um black people are underrepresented in financial services?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, uh, and the only reason I would say that is um it I think it comes from both sides.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's a case that um there isn't that many significant black people in in high positions, um, but also I think the the younger black generation are not actively looking um all the time for those people in those positions.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're starting to look there now, and and and maybe it's because they are becoming a bit more accessible, maybe because uh we are starting to show ourselves a bit more, maybe because we are starting to get those opportunities.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I remember going to companies and and they are speaking about um diversity and you know, kind of um you know, bringing more black people in, not necessarily in the senior roles, but bringing more black people in and um adding them to the face of uh some of their marketing as such, and and just making sure that there are a lot more people around.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I remember when I I was growing up, I don't remember um knowing any kind of black financial advisors or black brokers um that I could look up to essentially and say, okay, you look like me.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's possible for me to get to that level.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think now we're starting to see that a bit more.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I do feel that um it is a little bit, but I think it's getting better.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's getting better because a lot of people my age and younger want to be in those positions, so they're not just looking for people that are of colour in that position, they're they're trying to get there so that they can be that example for others as well.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, 100%.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um the more I think that a great way to, and you're saying it there, more it's like having more women in more senior positions will only um attract more women to the profession, but that's only if those women within those senior positions um are actually outspoken and are putting themselves out there on social media, for example.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And want to be in those positions.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and want to be in those positions, and it's exactly the same with anybody of any colour.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like, you know, if you if you want to get this, you know, if you want more people to join the industry or or to follow, there needs to be good role models.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Those good role models need to then put themselves out there and talk about the industry as a whole to um to be um influencers, if you like, to the minorities that aren't in the profession.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I think that's a really important thing.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that was one of the things that sort of drew me to you, really, because I was um I was talking to somebody from um Quilter and they mentioned you and you were going through a period of looking at your personal brand and changing, you know, your personal brand and how well you came across and all of that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And but when I looked at your website, I really liked your your website, and I really liked your personal brand that you're starting to build.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you are a black man, you are a financial planner, you've got your family on there and everything, just a stylish-looking guy.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked at that and I thought, that's exactly the type of that's a great image for a financial planner, you know, and it's going to only attract people, you know, young black guys or girls that are going to be looking at you, and white girls and guys as well, or any ethnicity, gonna be looking at someone like you and thinking, that guy's cool.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, I won't mind getting into financial planning.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I that's the first thing I got when I looked at your at your branding, which is why we sort of got talking originally, wasn't it?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we started talking about personal branding and the importance and the importance of it.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll we'll sort of crack onto that in a bit, actually, because I think that's a really nice area for us to talk about.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: So your journey sort of started within the bank, you've got into broken, you've done really well within broking.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've moved then from broken.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what made you move from broken then into financial planning?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously years ago you had an idea in your head that you were going to be a financial planner, moved away from it, got into broken, but at what stage was it?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: What was the turning point for you to leave stockbroking in trading and then become a financial planner?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So this was around uh 2017, and um I was in a senior management role and managing the team with two two of my other colleagues that um one of them I've um or two of them actually I was working with for the majority of my broken career.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, naturally in in that kind of space, I just felt like um it was very short-termish.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was constantly chasing um every month.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see you almost feel like starting from zero every month um with that kind of space.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was turning 30, uh, my life crisis was kicking in.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh an early one, an early one.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, early one.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just kind of felt like it was it was a good time for me to to kind of reflect on everything and and say, look, I'm ready to kind of take this this step into this this world of financial advice, uh, this long-term plan in terms of of building my client network and and building my funds under management.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I started thinking more about my my family in terms of what I wanted to provide for them.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel as a broker, I was very sometimesh, you know, in terms of how I was operating.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, money was coming in, but uh a lot of the time I felt like I was just um thinking about myself uh in in in some instances, which is a bit weird.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I'd I'd I'd make money, I'd I'd put money inside for the family.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: In my head, I was like, okay, you lot are good.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I'm going out and going to the club or I'm going to um meet the boys at um you know down the park for a drink after work or so.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it just kind of felt like uh an ongoing thing, and I didn't feel like I was progressing to where I needed to be, um, you know, to be, you know, take care of my family properly and you know become the man that I wanted to be.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I I decided to to leave um Stop Broken, and I did get headhunted by a company that asked me to join them, and it was quite a unique um proposition because they wanted me to go to uh Switzerland and work with them, which was a bit random at the time, to be fair.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I was at that space where I thought, you know, I'm having a midlife crisis, why not?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how it goes.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um but naturally I wanted to get into financial advice at the time, financial planning.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I I spoke to misses and you know.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Did you hold the qualifications at that stage to become a were you level four qualified when you were leaving broking and then moved over to Yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: So what did you do?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: When did you when did you get those qualifications?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Did you start studying whilst you were broking?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or was that yeah?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So what what essentially happened was uh throughout my broken career, um, I started off at level three and then the RDR kicked in around 2013, 2014.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the company I was at was was quite um you know forward-thinking, wanted us to be qualified quite early on.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think by the time the RDR kicked in, I'd already done my level four qualification.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was already qualified um for level four in terms of uh securities.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I moved into another place, I did my derivatives uh qualification as well.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I went to Switzerland, assuming that that was enough to be an advisor out there, not realizing that it was still quite heavily unregulated out there.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't fully qualified uh to give advice in the UK as a financial advisor.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I went out to Switzerland and was basically working on the offshore market and learning my trade there.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um offshore bonds and uh Q opses and moving into that space.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I didn't I didn't stay out there long, I was out there for about six months.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't comfortable, I was there by myself.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I left the family to go out there.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was really at that space at the time, I was really thinking about going out there and moving the family out there, um, just in terms of um kind of standards of living.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I eventually came back and went to a big wealth management firm in the UK, and that's when I got my uh investment advice diploma, which was the level four qualification to be a financial advisor here.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that and then started uh working in the financial advisory space in the UK, and that was in 2018, I think it was.
• 35:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you did something quite typical, which is go and work offshore.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people, you know, especially younger guys, will go offshore with the promise that the streets are paved with gold and there's loads of money to be earned, it's uncapped commissions.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, the dream that was sold to you about the company you went to, I think it was Guardian Wealth, wasn't it?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: You went to was the dream that you were sold, was the reality match?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did the reality match the dream or um because it's a lot, it's it's A, it's very hard offshore, it's a very tough blog.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but B, sometimes it's over sold as being this amazing job and it's great opportunity when in fact you're smashing the phones 24-7 and um it's a real kind of diluted uh market.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and I think it's a it's a mixture of things.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was my naivete as well, yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think I I kind of went in thinking it was fully regulated, I was I was fully qualified to do this, um, and and maybe didn't do as much due diligence as I should have um going into that space.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also, yeah, there was an element of you know, you could be the biggest financial advisor out here, and um there was a lot more grafting out there than um I originally thought I was okay with that because I was used to um you know the way I was brought up in the broken industry, I was I was kind of comfortable with that, but I just didn't like the um the idea that um they had taken me out of my comfort zone, which naturally I probably should have been taken out of my comfort zone, but being thrown into this deep end um by myself, um without the family, and still not 100% sure what was going on.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just for me, um at the age that I was at, and with all of the well, I'm not gonna say baggage, but with with um knowing that I had the family back home.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: The baggage, that's the sort of thing that I would say.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly the sort of thing that I would say, the baggage, the wife, yeah, the wife and the kids nightmare.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, just just having the uh the wife and the kids back home and just thinking um this wasn't comfortable.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: It just wasn't comfortable.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if I was maybe you know 24, 25, and having the same mentality, having the graft in, yeah, I think it might have been uh a different space.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I would have stayed out a bit longer.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the guys that I was working out there, um, who was at that age, I think just came out uni.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: He I think he's still out there, or he was out there for you know another year or so.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think it was just the situation that I was in, it just didn't feel right for me to stay there.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I came back.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wrong time of your life, isn't it?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it was a wrong time of my life.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm I'm grateful for the experience because it did open my eyes to the good and the bad of this industry.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know it it happens, it happens, and you know, that's that's been what my journey's been about.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's how I've been able to learn.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of what I've done has been through trial and error.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know that it's definitely the best way to learn.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, some people can just fall, you know, luckily into a role within financial planning, and within a couple of years they're earning serious cash and you know, they're just lucky that they found the right path.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas some other people try different routes, you know, they go offshore, they might go self-employed, they might go employed, you know, it's there's so many different avenues and so many different routes within financial planning.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: And a part of this podcast is really to sort of talk about that and to open it up.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had a guy come on talking about his business over in um Abu Dhabi.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the guy earns over a million dollars a year, so he's incredibly successful on the offshore market.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it was important to me to bring people on to the podcast who have had a really positive experience out there because I know there are people out there that do really well.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: But also what you've just rightfully said there is it's it's about the time of your life.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's one thing I would say to people if they're gonna go offshore, and probably you back me up on this, is just take stock of exactly what it is you're leaving behind and how much of a pull on your emotions and how much of a pull uh you know on you as a person is it gonna take away because the job is hard, it's commission-based, and you know, it's a lifestyle.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting out there.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lifestyle.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was a complete shift to my lifestyle.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was uh the city boy, I was I was making money, I was comfortable, um, I had the family around me, and then bam, I'm in Geneva, I'm in a a two-bedroom apartment by myself.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I don't know how to get to the office.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to figure out um the language, you know, everyone speaking the different language there.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit uncomfortable.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's not that many black people there.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I say that, but in terms of the space that I was in, there wasn't that many black people there as well.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was it was hard for me to kind of bounce off um, you know, everybody or certain individuals that were from London that all from like um reading or those kind of areas that I was familiar with.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was just a completely different uh environment for me.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it I think it's one of those things, like you're saying, that you need to be out there long enough to get comfortable with it before you can know if it's gonna work for you or not.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I don't think six months was uh a long enough time for me to figure it out.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe if I gave myself a year, year and a half, then I'd fully know, you know what it's working, brilliant.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can stay.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it's not working out like it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let me let me go back anyway.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I struggle, like going out somewhere because I had an opportunity and um I really considered it.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I would struggle with I couldn't, you know, my wife leaving my wife here, my my daughter.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's I would I would certainly struggle, and I think the pull of money sometimes is is it's when you when you're younger, the pull of money is far greater than when you start to get older.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And when you get start to get older, you value different things, don't you?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't, you know, the paycheck at the end of the day isn't you you start to learn that doesn't actually make you happy.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the shift, that was the shift for me because I think I was still effectively chasing money at the time when I made the move.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when I came back, I realized that's that's that wasn't the main um thing for me.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't what was keeping me going.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically being happy and kind of providing for my family and taking care of them and purpose being with yeah, having the purpose, being being being the dad to my kids and uh being a husband to my wife.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think um do you believe in that?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, when you kind of like have purpose, like I'm kind of like I'm I I was blindsided by money, property, prestige, all the things that come with you know, ambition, all that kind of stuff.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're all they're all good things, ambition, etc.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: But it can also be really detrimental to your to your well-being and to your health, I think, and to your mental health.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: But when I shifted my mindset over to purpose and having meaning in my life and just not caring so much about what other people had and what I, you know, a house and what if I why have I not got that and they've got it, and you know, how much I you know, I was always obsessed with trying to earn a hundred grand a year and stuff, like stuff like that.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as I dropped that, it's like a weight lifted from my shoulders, and then I started doing things I actually really enjoyed doing.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: And by doing that and having that purpose, I'm finding that more doors are opening.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm yeah, you know, it's less about the money, but the money starts coming to you.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think it's because your your um your focus shifts because when you're just thinking about the money, you're you're not thinking about how is how it's coming in and the opportunities that could come to you that could generate those funds, and you're just like, I need to just do this job and earn this X amount of money.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I went out there with that same mentality if I just do this and do this, I'm just gonna earn loads of money and I'm gonna be brilliant, and I'll bring the family over and everything will be sweet.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I wasn't happy, I just wasn't happy out there, and you know, I came back and like you said, you know, for me, I think um the purpose of being happy and making sure that my family are happy and you know, having the right mentality in terms of how I look at finances as well, um, and how I help other people look at finances was was probably more important to me than just saying, look, I need to I need to be on six figures, I need to be doing this.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, that that was the kind of money that I was eventually making as a broker.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I left that to go into to this space and you know kind of start building from scratch again and and kind of take it from there.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the the money doesn't really make the man, isn't it?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, it doesn't.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's interesting then because it's a good that's good it's a good thing to to hit home here as well, especially for people that feel like everybody wants to have a bit of money.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Money opens, you know, money does can make your life better and it can sort of open doors for you and make make yourself more comfortable.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's about having as much, it's about having enough money to be comfortable, isn't it?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there is you don't need to have millions of pounds, you don't need hundreds, hundreds of thousands of pounds is about being comfortable.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that certainly transcends over into financial planning and doing the job of a financial planner is sort of building that relationship with clients and getting them to understand well, how much money do you actually need?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: What is it you actually require to retire, or what does retirement look like to you?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you want to send your kids to go to school?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, let's be realistic and work out exactly how much you need.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it also works in the same way as yourself looking for a job.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you've walked away from a really high-paying, stockbreaking job where you've built a skill, you've done well, you've got up to management, you've then taken a right plunge over into Geneva.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Fair play for doing that, but what a baptism of fire and a learning for you to then come back to the new UK.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Were you thinking, shit, where do I go now?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know, did doors open for you straight away?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I do remember when I came back, I was kind of just thinking, okay, well, I'll just figure out from here.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I still want to be in this space, you know, it's only just begun.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I remember my dad speaking to me and saying stuff like, oh, maybe you should go back into broken and stuff.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, I don't want to, it's not it's not really where my passion, you know, my purpose was.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it just didn't feel right to even try and go back into that space.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I within probably say three to four months of of being back home, um, I moved into another space.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there were the opportunities were there, they were flowing.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was good because I felt that I had a little bit of time to actually decide where I wanted to go and why I wanted to be there.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I had a bit of time with the family as well after being back.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, again, purpose.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was thinking about where I want to be, who I want to work with, what I'm trying to achieve.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um I moved into uh a company in Canary Wharf and started working there.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that was around 2018 or so.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you come back from Guardian, come back from Geneva, back to London, back into Canary Wharf.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the company you were working for was St.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place, then, was it?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: So were you working as a partner, working as a self-employed, you know, did you go through their academy or did you join as a as an employee?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: How what you know what did it look like getting into getting into your role within the UK?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I worked as a um associate partner, uh, working for a practice.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I didn't go through the academy, so to speak.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went through a practice that is underneath St.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, um, which was in one of the at the top five practices there.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was it was quite intense in terms of um how they operate.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're they're really uh good at getting people up and running and uh training and everything, and um they're they're really serious about um making it work for for individuals and um you know really um pushing people to be successful um there.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a good opportunity for me to be in a good learning experience as well.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had um one or two colleagues that I used to work with as brokers that was in that space as well.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when I came back from Switzerland, they were you know very keen, encouraging them, you've got to come here.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's hard, but you know, you can really do well here.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I really want you to come back and come work with me, and you can you know, I can help you and everything.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that that's what really encouraged me to go there and you know start building again.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, just touching on the kind of um looking up to somebody, you know, I had had those those guys, um, one guy in particular, um uh guy called uh Stacy Saber, um, that I used to work as a broker that moved into that space.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, that that was uh one of the individuals that helped me kind of um give me the confidence to say I can I can go into this space and and do that.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I didn't have anybody else, you know.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: We spoke about not having that many black people there.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'd never even seen that many black people in that space to kind of reach out to and have that kind of conversation.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it was nice to have someone like him there, but you know, again, I'd be you know, I think a lot more younger people would be keen to move into these spaces if they do start to see people like myself in this kind of space and and um knowing that there's these opportunities there as well.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely, and the sort of power of having a mentor as well is always gonna help anybody out within their first few years and um continuing through their career as well.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you had your mentor there at St.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place that was helping you.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you went in at St.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place underneath um one of the large partner practices, um, and you've obviously had no experience really of full financial planning at this at this stage.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: So this is like really your first your first financial planning job.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what was your perception before you went into the reality of what the actual job of a financial planner does?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I guess it was it was still kind of linked to the the the bank in terms of um you know you're you're in a nice office in Canary Wolf, uh a client walks in and they need the financial advisor.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they need your help.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're desperate, they don't know what they're doing with their finances, um their money's all over the place, they're in debt, or um they are uh they've got loads of money.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they're they're sitting on a yacht somewhere, they got loads of money, and they just want someone to manage it because they don't have time to do it themselves because they're enjoying life too much.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there was that initial perception that you know everything would come to me, and that and I'd and I'd have to kind of figure out what to do with it.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was interesting because it was the complete opposite.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had to go out and get it, I had to go out and look for it, um, had to push for it, I had to again graft and you know, do the chasing and you know, get familiar with doing the running around and you know, running from one office to another and going to meet people and and being comfortable with that, and having that impression in my head that I'm gonna jump into this office and this guy's not gonna know that I'm a black guy and sit in front of him and give an impression and you know he'd be comfortable with me and say, I like this guy, let me um let me work with him and then hopefully become a client of mine.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just the complete opposite of what I originally thought.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it gave me uh ample time to kind of realize that this is what it's gonna look like, this is what you need to do, um, and this is how you need to be comfortable with it and just go in and and you know kind of see how it goes.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because that's so true.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, and that's the thing I want to kind of hit home is that yeah, it's not as easy as people think.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there is that perception.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is why people from bank assurance really struggled when they went into like the the IFA world and the independent world you know, after RDR kicked them all out of the bank, because they were so used to people walking through their front door of the branch and sitting down with them and saying, Can you help me?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um they weren't used to actually making those outbound calls, that grafting, that booking appointments, the building relationships with clients to get referrals, the um working with introducers and you know, putting in the time going for drinks and socializing and networking to establish yourself within your niche, if you like, or your arena as being the go-to guy when it came to financial planning, because it didn't, it doesn't land on your lap unless the company is, you know, got some insane marketing generating loads of leads, or you're walking into a business where you're inheriting a client bank, for instance.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you certainly weren't doing that at St.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place, I would imagine.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, you were it was it was hardcraft.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of one thing I I I want to get across to people who are thinking about becoming a financial planner is that you know you might you're gonna have to work hard, you know.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: You ain't just sitting there and someone's walking into your room and and sitting down with you and saying, Here's a million quid, can you invest it for me?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, can you give us a kind of overview of the types of things that you that you have to do within your first couple of years or even to today's day, you know, to today, what things do you have to do to be able to win new client relationships?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, in terms of um being that at that practice at SJP, there was a lot of uh emphasis of I wouldn't say going above and beyond, but um putting a lot of work in place to show your value.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of emphasis of you know going to see the client, um showing them that you know what you're doing, showing them your confidence, showing them your expertise, um, um, instilling that need in them, or making them understand um that they do need your services.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, staying on top of them because I think in this kind of day and age, you know, I was I was in the mid, I was in Canary Wolf, I was in the mix of things.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm going around to meet other city professionals.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: These guys um working on trading floors, working in compliance, working in all these spaces, they don't have time.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you almost have to convince them that they need your help because they don't have time to realize it themselves most of the time.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was a hard graph, you know, you're on the phone, you're um sending out emails, you're you're chasing people, um, you're you're networking, you're going out to to meet people.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you if you have clients, you're you're looking to um generate referrals from from those clients as well.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it is a it is a constant, I wouldn't say push, but it's a constant uh request or so to to always be looking to uh to to help someone or to do business, depending on how you want to look at it.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can't sit on your loyals, you can't really just sit and assume that's gonna come to you.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't work like that.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, I'll be honest, for me, I felt I felt um, you know, and I felt this in most kind of ways, um, you know, being being a the black guy, the one guy in the in the room, or the one or two guys, because there wasn't that many guys at the time in there, and and some of them would probably speak to it as well, that you felt that you had to do above and beyond to get in line with everybody else.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it just felt like that's always been the way.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: So and and I think maybe with me, I I was kind of assuming like, nah, you know, it's just I'm I'm just like everybody else.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could just kind of walk in and yeah, and give the same energy and not have to give 120% where everyone's giving them 100% and and get the same result.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, it was a constant, it was a constant chase, constant chase with with finding uh new clients and such.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: Can you sort of look back and you can sort of remember the first time you actually generated a client that was a fee-paying client?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can you sort of remember that?
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember um the first client I got from there, and it was it was weird because um I I wasn't sure if I still knew what I was doing.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, because I was I was going through the process that they wanted me to go through, but I was kind of just doing it in my own way, yeah.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think at the time I'd done it in like the first month or so.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was quite surprised myself.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was in terms of when I got signed off to go out, and you know, because you had to go through a process of uh training and compliance and you know, um role plays and all this kind of stuff, and then okay, you're ready to go out, you got your SPS from the CISI, you're qualified, you're good to go, your license is in, you can go out now.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's literally, you know, here's a meeting, go see this guy.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was one of the first, you know, probably people that I went to meet.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I met him in the calf, uh, I met him in a Costa.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we sat down, I did the meeting with him.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, had the tie on everything, you know, he looked apart, we're going through it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling very confident.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: I go through the first meeting, he's happy for the next one.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: I go back to the office and they're like, How did it go?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, he wants another meeting, he wants to sit down with me.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Oh, okay, well done.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting there, like, oh, okay, brilliant.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Went through the whole process with him and eventually went to the last meeting where um he agreed to become a client of mine.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a bit weird because I left, like, I didn't I didn't know how to feel about it because I thought like it wasn't supposed to happen.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bit weird, and I just remember him going back to the office and and being like, Yeah, so he signed up.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my manager um happy for me, but at the same time, it was kind of like, oh, you know, he was a low-hanging fruit uh kind of impression.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I almost felt like it was an easy one as opposed to um I did all the hard work to kind of get it through.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't know how to feel about it.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of felt like, oh, I've still got so much more to do.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was an easy, it was an easy win.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got so much more to do to get um a better client or bigger client or more clients.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was uh the first experience, and it was it was a nice feeling because I felt like I was in my element.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: I felt uh very comfortable in terms of how I was doing things, the conversations um I had, and and you know, at the same time I had somebody with me.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um they were quite good in terms of you know having maybe someone in compliance or someone uh from an experienced background with you to kind of watch you and make sure that you're doing it properly before they go, okay, well, you know, just kind of figure out for yourself and go on your own.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a nice experience.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, man.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: So what about sort of your first?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you've been you know, you were working for St.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: James's place for two years, and um obviously you're in a kind of training capacity, you know, you are learning within those first two years.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what advice would you give to an aspiring financial planner who is wanting to become an advisor?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: What advice would you give a trainee financial planner in their first year of being a financial planner?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um find a way to be comfortable in your own skin.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the the reason I say that is because um, you know, I I feel like when I was doing well in that role, it was because I was being me.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when I wasn't doing well, it's because I was trying to be somebody else.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um it didn't work for me at times.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was times when I was I was following procedural protocol or following a process that was being emulated by somebody else.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I tried to replicate that, it didn't work because it just wasn't me.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for me it was it was important, and you know, going through this process, it was important for me to realize that um I am who I am, you know, the way I talk, the way I I look, the way I move, um, you know, the way I operate, that's me.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna change.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I might get a bit wiser, I might learn a few more things, but in terms of how I communicate and I operate, uh, I'm not gonna change that much.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think um with some of these places, they they just need to be familiar with the idea of molding the person um into who they're going to be and not molding them into who you want them to be.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: So what you're saying there is like in your first year, don't feel you have to be something you're not, be true and authentic to yourself and be comfortable in your own skin because being you and who you are is what it's all about, and that's what people you're gonna build relationships, aren't you, with clients who like you as a person, otherwise you're turning up to meetings and you're pretending to be somebody you're not, and that's exhausting, isn't it?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is, it is, and I've tried it, and sometimes it's worked, and sometimes it hasn't, and it doesn't feel comfortable.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just don't think it's it's a lasting uh process, and I think for for some of those people that were following it, it was something that they were comfortable with um in themselves in terms of how they are and how they operate, and and for me over time, it it wasn't working for me.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: It it wasn't um, you know, I'm I'm I'm a very positive guy, um, I'm very optimistic about how I do things.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes it doesn't always um uh work or come across as um uh creating urgency or um creating any kind of uh fear as such, but um that's me.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's how I am.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't I don't I I don't feel comfortable um any other way.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I can still do the job.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel for some of these other people, they just need to be able to um get into this this space but be comfortable with who they are as as a person, and over time they will be successful for it.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well that leads us on to a little bit around sort of um what we were talking about on the telephone before we had the podcast, really, because you've gone from St.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place, you've left St.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: James's place now, and you've gone over to Alexander House Financial Planning, and which is quilt part of Quilter, isn't it?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you've also set up your own website, haven't you?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: Your own website, your own now.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: Does that mean you're an an appointed representative, or is that a personal brand approach?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: What is it you're you're building at the moment?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a this is the interesting part.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um when I when I left uh SJP, I was in this kind of limbo space of um what happens next.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was in a position where I started building the network where people were asking me to come on um certain um presentations, events to speak about wealth management.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so in my head I was thinking, well, I still want to go and speak about wealth management, but I can't go as Michael, uh associate partner of SJP.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember speaking to um a colleague of mine before I left SJP, and he, you know, he was one of the uh the reasons that I set up the website.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke to him about what I was doing in terms of my networking, and he was like, Do you have your own brand?
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What are you talking about?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, like, you know, you as Michael Doncle, the the wealth manager, do people know you as your brand?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's when you know kind of hit me that I need to get my website.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I got a colleague to help me set up uh a website for me.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the one that you're looking at now, it was just a very generic one page of me and um a bit of information about what I do.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went to this event and kind of spoke about wealth management and just kind of went in as me um talking about wealth management, giving some information about it, um, and just being open with everything.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm not SJP, you know, um an experienced wealth manager, um, and and this is what I've learned, this is what um I understand of this space.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I was thinking to you know, kind of a young um demographic at the time as well, kind of late 20s, early 30s as well.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: So just trying to get them into understanding what wealth management was, and that just kind of led me to start building my my website and building my personal brand.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, to answer the question, um it is just a personal brand of me.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not uh appointed representative, I work for an appointed representative.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was very conscious that um I didn't want to turn it into a like a legitimate legal brand because then it I feel that there would almost be some conflict of interest there.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in a sense I work for I work for a practice, I'm working in partnership with a practice.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is me, this is who you're gonna get when you um sit down with me and um work with me, and um this is what I'm about.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's what I really wanted to do with the website.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: It leads it down the path again, doesn't it?
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: Of what you and this is where we're going with it with you, I think.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the conversation I had over the phone.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you want to be your authentic self.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you want people to do business, you know, with Michael, um, not with the company, you know, the company you're working for is the company you're working for.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's the company that you do the financial planning through.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: But as a, you know, as a financial planner, as a wealth manager, you want to you want people to know who you are, understand who you are, and build that relationship with you personally.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: And by having that personal brand and starting with a website and showing your authentic self, people can buy in and like you.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said to you, like I like your website, I think it's really fresh, and I think it's very um uh you know, very engaging and and and and and I can I can buy into you.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like all the pictures on there of you are really good, it's professional, but it's also friendly and it's modern and it looks dynamic.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't it doesn't bore me, you know?
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that St.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place had a real problem with was not allowing individual financial planners to actually build upon their personal brands, and they were really pushing the whole St.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place brand.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, don't get me wrong, they're billion and billions under manager.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're doing pretty well, they're doing pretty well for themselves.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: However, I don't think that brand works well when you're trying to talk to multiple different audiences, yeah.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: And especially in the kind of LinkedIn and and and digital age that we're in, and there's some really cool, funky brands and tech companies out there, and you want to come across as like like a bit of a you know, a bit like like you're in the know and not some stuffy soup turning up, like you know, does that make sense?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it does, it does, because you know, even going to meetings at times, you know, I'd I'd I remember going to meetings and naturally so, you know, I I like I like wearing my suits, I like putting my tie on um on occasion and I like dressing the part.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um I I don't mind going to certain meetings and and looking that way.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you know, when I was a broker, I didn't wear a tie.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I walked in like this on occasion, and you know, as I became more experienced, you know, I kind of had the freedom to go in sometimes like this, but on occasion I'll wear a tie.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I would go into meetings and feel overdressed.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I might be meeting a young guy that's in his mid-20s, that's working in investment banking, he's on 200 grand, and um he's walking in uh with his shirt open and um he's rolled up sleeves and he's just popped in from lunch and he's he's got a bit of time and he's a bit laid back, and I'm sitting there all like to talk about wealth management, and he's just looking at me like, Who's this prick this talk?
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit uncomfortable, and and I could feel it as well.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'd yeah, I'd leave those meetings feeling uncomfortable because I wasn't being meet, I wasn't being genuine.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I think that's kind of changing, and it also depends on um your audience, you know.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was meeting a uh a much older uh person, then yeah, naturally I would assume that you know I think it's important first impression that I have my tire, and then you know, they see me in a certain way, and you know, they see me uh being serious about things.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but if I'm meeting a guy that's or a uh a girl that's um around my age group and they're feeling quite relaxed, then it's okay, then then yeah, I'd feel that we should be oh I should be able to come in with that kind of conversation, have that uh that that look and feel comfortable with that.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I like the positioning as well.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: I like you know, you you you you you put yourself down as a obviously you're a you're a financial planner, you're a financial advisor, but you're also that's a financial coach.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: So going for that kind of financial coach angle, and that's a yeah, a very kind of trendy thing at the moment within financial planning.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody's doing it, but um, it's a very Australian, very American, you know, and I think more so in the younger generation or the sort of generation coming, you know, your 30s to 40s, I think coaching is kind of like a nice, it's like, oh, I've got a financial coach.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: This person's gonna coach me with my money, perhaps coach me around behaviors around my money, etc.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, have you sort of is that something that you are going to expand on?
• 1:09:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_02: Coaching side, you know, and why would you expand on the coaching side?
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I I kind of I wouldn't say I stumbled into it, but um I think I went to a life coaching course.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and the reasoning behind that, I had um a supervisor at SJP that was uh very keen on life coaching and understood the the concept of it, and she kind of introduced me into it, and I thought that it would help with my kind of my skill set in terms of the wealth management side of things.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I went to that course and it just kind of opened my eyes to this whole you know, live coaching, um, you know, speaking to people and understanding their concerns and trying to work with that.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt it kind of it felt quite natural with with me, how I operate as such.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just kind of thought about trying to proposition that uh to a few individuals while I was doing my wealth management um pitches on certain events, and I had one or two people reach out to me, which was quite nice because I wasn't expecting it, and and started um looking at that avenue and trying to help them.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then what started to happen was the the people I was speaking to were younger individuals in, say, the the corporate world that wasn't really sure how to get up in into the next stage of their life or such.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I noticed with this whole process was that um a lot of uh these individuals' feelings and their relationship with money um was um you know kind of very uh positively correlated.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if they if their money was in a good position, they were in a great position.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: If their money was bad, they was in a bad position.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't like that because they couldn't operate properly.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they if they weren't if they were having a bad day or they were having a bad month or whatever the situation was, um, then they couldn't do their job, they they they couldn't uh think about how to get out of the rap race or get out of their hole, so to speak.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, for me, I just kind of felt that um again we're chasing money, but we should be chasing happiness and trying to separate the two.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even if you're in a negative position with your finances, you can still be in a positive position with yourself and get yourself out of that.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and take yourself to the next level.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've been through it.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think a lot of people are going through at the moment in terms of what's happening with COVID and you know, people losing their jobs, redundancies, and everything, and you know, still feeling that there is a way to get you to get you where you need to be, essentially.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I kind of moved into that space, and and what I want to do with that is is really um, you know, help people that are interested in in learning about wealth management or interested in kind of um being financially literate.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I'm just not there yet.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're just not at that level to be in wealth management, but they're at that level where they can kind of sit with me and I can educate them on my experiences and and my understanding of finance and and help them get to a certain level that I didn't get to.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I was a broke, I didn't I didn't have someone like me.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had someone like me, essentially, to kind of build me to where I think you're right there.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um the more you can build a relationship with those types of people because the the better you're gonna be, I think, in the future.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're 33 years old.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say in the next seven, seven years you build some really strong relationships through coaching um or perhaps sharing really valuable content on LinkedIn, Instagram, or whatever it is that you might well do, you're building the relationship with the next generation of wealth, aren't you?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because the next big thing is this transition of wealth.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's going to be a huge amount of wealth being transferred down to the next generation.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're watching and listening to you, whether you're at a seminar, whether you're an online seminar or you're speaking on a podcast or you're putting some video content out or whatever it is you might well be doing, if you're building the relationship with you when it comes to actually investing a larger sum of money, yeah, they're going to turn to you, aren't they?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're talking to them and educating them about different financial situations that are going to be coming up in their lives, perhaps buying a house, or you know, you've got kids, you know, be thought about, you know, how you're going to pay the school fees.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in your 30s, you start thinking about pensions a bit more and you know, and and all those things that you put to one side in your 20s because you're getting pissed up every single day, you know, you're having a bit of a laugh.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think um this is where I'm starting to see some financial planners, um, especially the younger financial planners, really sort of starting to carve a niche and find that area.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's about building that strong personal brand and being accessible as well, and making yourself accessible and making yourself authentic and being trustworthy.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the quickest and best ways to do that is by putting content out there on social media, and you know, you can you can come across with a really specific topic.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: It could be like, I don't know, how to buy, you know, how to buy a how to buy a mortgage, you know, what to expect when you're when you're gonna buy a mortgage.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: You put that piece of content out there, if it's if it's really if it's if if it's produced really well, it doesn't even have to produce well in respect of what camera you use or anything, but if the if the message comes across really clearly, someone goes, damn, do you know what?
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've been thinking that, and that guy's just answered my question.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So instantly they're gonna follow you and they're gonna start buying into you.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they think, I think financial advisor, I think Michael, I'm gonna go back to Michael's page.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Michael talks about that a lot, and I think personal branding is is huge and it's gonna be a big thing in financial planning, and not enough financial planners are really doing it.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think your website and what you're doing and your thought process around it is definitely moving in the right direction.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, have you stepped into social media and started looking at videos or creating contents and and and building upon that personal brand to speak to a wider audience?
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we we we we spoke about this briefly on the phone, and you know, that's basically the next step for me.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of what I want to do.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm I'm learning and seeing from the likes of like um, you know, I'll give a shout out to Emmanuel Eman Effect and um seeing what he's been doing and um just kind of thinking about the ideas um money jar, um, these kind of places that are um bringing out good content and showing showing the world and you know, uh the social media that they're here, they're available.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can you can speak to them, um, they're giving you good content, uh, you can work with them.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um more importantly, you can learn from them.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn from them.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's something that I want to do.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really want to be in a position where I can provide some content that people can really learn.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I I always look at from a perspective of, again, I I I never had me at my age, you know, at the age when I was making a lot of money and nobody pulled me inside and said, hey, you know, you had the extra five, six hundred pounds here.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you put aside for your kids instead of uh go down and buy a few more bottles in the club or or go to the pub and you know buy another round for the boys?
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't have that conversation with anybody.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had to figure it out by myself.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I just want a lot of the younger generation to kind of realize that you can still live your life and you know enjoy things, but you know, there are um other things that will become more important to you, and the sooner this you start, the better it will be.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the key things is just understanding how your finances work.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: I 100% agree with you.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Financial education is such a massive thing at the moment, and it can be done so well.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's about the message, how you come across.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, as we said before, you know, it's about being true and authentic and building that trust.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think sometimes people feel like um, especially financial planners, they don't really want to give away anything for free.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't they don't, you know, because so well, when I'm gonna give it away for free, they should pay for that.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um that's a very old school mentality because I've found the more I give away, the more I get back.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a tricky one because you know, um nobody really um says that stuff about accountants or solicitors, um, but they're we're no different from them in terms of um providing a service and um adding value to a client's lifestyle.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the only the only difference I feel in most cases is that um I wouldn't say the work's already done, but if you if you look at from an accountant's perspective, they they're looking at things retrospectively because usually you go to an accountant after you you have all this pile of money and you don't know what kind of tax uh you need to pay um before the taxman gets to you.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you've already done most of the work, and then the accountant comes in and just corrects it for you.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um whereas a financial planner um has to be forward thinking and look at what you're about to do, and then put in the steps for you to do it in the right way.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's gonna benefit you.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's not easy for people to see that.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but more importantly, um, it's like it's like the iceberg effect.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_00: They don't see what's underneath, like the hours you put in, the time that you have to put in to actually review someone's pension or understand their situation.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, speak to your your back office department, speak to your power planners, um, chase up um LOA's letters of authority for your pension information, for your ISO information, speak to you about stuff that you may have not even thought about yourself.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um wills, wills is is one of the big things that a lot of people um uh don't really think about doing.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's about 73% or so of people between 18 to 54 don't have wills.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you ask them about it, they're like, no, I don't, but I'll I'll get to it.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they never get to it.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, if they had a financial planner, they'd probably do it.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: But all of this costs, you know, you get what you pay for at the end of the day.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the that's the one side.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you want a proper service, you have to pay for it.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_00: But also, you know, we're in a space where content is king almost.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's important that people can understand what you're capable of, um, what you can provide.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I think also, which is something that I'm learning as as well, um, who are you trying to position this content to?
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, who do you want to help?
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to be your clients?
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to work with essentially?
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's important to kind of put some of that stuff out there um so that they understand why they should come to you.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think you're right there.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's like a tip of the iceberg thing.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think what somebody, when when I think about giving something away, it's about sort of showing them um something like we mentioned there about wills.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So a good piece of content around that in my head would be like, this is what would happen if you die.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or this is what will happen when your wife dies or partner dies.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_02: These are the things that could could happen.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_02: It could be in you know, estate planning, inheritance tax, there could be lots of different things, you know, you know, lack of life cover, children, you know, not being able to pay the mortgage, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden you're sort of expressing and you're showing the grim reality of not having a protection or a will in place, for example.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And when someone sits there and they listen to that and they can hear it and they connect with it and go, well, that's how I feel, I get that, but I don't understand it.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So is you kind of clearly define, look, this is the risk, this is the worry of not having it, this is what I can do to help you.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you click the link below, you'll land on a page, and all I need to do is put your personal details in, and I'll give you a call and I'll talk you through it.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden, that free piece of content is like leading them into going, okay, well, like he's totally talking to me because this is because everybody has that worry and that fear in their minds of what would happen, but yet you have to simplify it to make them go, I'm connected to that.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's a two-minute video, it's not a boring bloody video or a document or a slideshow or PowerPoint presentation.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's what are you going to do when you what what what would what would happen to your family if you were to die?
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's some really good ad I think there's is it Tom, I think, Tom.co.uk.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_02: You see him on Instagram all the time if you're a bloke and a dad.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's always like some, they're always interviewing some some wife or someone whose dad, you know, whose partner's died.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they're talking about life cover, aren't they?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the impact.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I look at it, and my girlfriend, my wife tags me in them.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Have you done this?
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, I don't want to be in this situation.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that again, it's that financial education.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's leading them into giving them something that gives them clarity and understanding.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next stage is, well shit, how do I do it?
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So then it's going, come and see me, click here and do it this way.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's combining personal brand, it's combining video, it's combining content, making sure you're getting it out there, but also leading them to a page or leading them to a landing page or a way to then get in contact with you simply.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: It could be like download if you want the full guide, download the guide here.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_02: They give you your details and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's you know it's a powerful tool, and I think you can do that very well through video.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can do it very well.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sitting there and having someone write an article for you is great for your website, for example, because it builds SEO and all of that.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if someone's typing on the internet, how you know what do I do when I die?
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_02: The reality is you can pinpoint people in their 30s and 40s on Instagram with a bloody great message, and it's done.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you might have it's it's you know, that's the so that's when I I look at the personal brand side of it, and that's where I see the value from a financial planner investing in it.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I see there's such a huge opportunity there because as bugger all advisors, not many of them doing that, doing that, and there's a shitload of clients out there that needs servicing and need advice.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_00: The market has, you know, naturally, because of the qualification side of things, there isn't as many advisors out there as there used to be.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's still people out there that still need the advice.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this the scary part of it is a lot of them don't realise that, um, or they think that they don't need it, but they've never had the conversation to check uh most of the time.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it and I think it is just about um, like you said, some of this content will educate them, and some of them, some of this content will open them to the reality that actually um I was supposed to do it last year, I didn't do it, I need to do it, I need to do it.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why haven't I done it?
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's because I don't have a financial advisor.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like, why haven't I done my taxes?
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't have an accountant.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I haven't I signed my contracts because you don't have a solicitor.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're the kind of um thought process that people need to have.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, it can be it can be costly at some times, but like I said, you get what you pay for in in most cases.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you if you find the right person, they should add value to you.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I think is more important about it.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_00: They should add value to you.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you feel cheated, it's probably because you didn't get um the value out of it.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about, again, you know, you you mentioned it, I think, earlier on, whereas where you can spend a lot of your time as a financial planner rushing around having these first meetings, can't you?
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the time it's potentially people fishing for information.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're kind of they're kind of like, okay, well, I'll sit down and I'll talk to them, you know, and yeah, you might have their attent undivided attention for sort of an hour, but how much of that hour do they really digest?
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's about kind of picking the things that are the most important.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if you could sit down with a thousand people like that and tell them the key things that are the most important to them, how powerful is that?
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the that's the part that I think if I was going down the financial planning route myself, I would just be building upon my personal brand.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be just constantly putting out content that was engaging, interesting, building trust and building the relationship.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because although they might not buy from me there and then, they will buy from me in a year's time, or they'll recommend me to one of their friends who's just inherited a load of money.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll say, I follow this guy, he's amazing.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, speak to him.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's the he's the man, he's the one, he's the one in the know.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I would I would be doing that sort of thing.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what that's what every advisor really wants.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they want to work with a good network of clients.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they don't always want to be chasing.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are happy with it, but yeah, the idea is they want to help.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say who they want to help, but they want to be in a position where um the person that comes to them actually wants their help, yeah, actually wants their help, needs their help, as opposed to them always trying to fish to justify kissing frogs, isn't it?
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, it's you can't do it too, you can't do it over and over again.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_00: It it does get frustrating.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think the older you get, the more frustrating it gets.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're you're so in tune with this wealth of knowledge, this wisdom, and you're sitting in front of this guy, and you can clearly see that he needs your help, but he's so stubborn because he's watched 20 videos of how to set up his own pension, yeah, how to trade ETFs, how to buy cryptocurrency and and all this other stuff.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, he's the financial advisor.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, yeah.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's figured out that he's his own financial advisor, yet he has no qualifications whatsoever.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's all, you know, we all go on to Google now, don't we, to self-diagnose any kind of headache we've got, you know.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I've got a headache.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got, you know, we're all we're all bloody doctors now, you know.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're and as the information highway grows and grows and grows, and our access to to him to to qu and also to access to some quite good quality information, yeah, um, I think people are become wiser and smarter.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what it's about is it's about it's you know, I want to be super fit, so I'm gonna follow somebody who's uh I'm gonna follow Jamie, James, James, what's his name, Wicks.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna follow him.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be a financial advisor, so I'm gonna follow Martin Lewis.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_02: You can't you can't do it all, you know?
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And whenever I've been yeah, whenever I've been the most successful in my life, right?
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's because I've I've built a relationship with a person.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a mentor.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very much of a believer that you surround yourself with.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_02: An expert in something that you're not.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if I've got money issues, I turn to an expert in money.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_02: If I've got personal um if I've got mental health problems, I talk to a mental health expert.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_02: If I want to talk to somebody about addiction, I talk to an addiction expert.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I've got these people around me and I turn to them.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the power is being that person that someone turns to.
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_02: And they turn to that person initially through social media.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_02: They screen them now, don't they?
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you scream through social media and you build that relationship.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's like getting into veganism.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you look at vegan, you know, I was really getting trying to get into veganism.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to be a vegan.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, and then you start following like vegan chefs or vegan, and then I was like, well, I'm working out loads.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to not eat protein.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you start following a vegan um, you know, bodybuilder, and you're like, wow, oh.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to pick, don't you, your your mentors.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about, am I a mentor?
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Am I adding value to somebody's life all the time?
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can I can I do that without in without being too pushy?
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the beautiful thing.
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when you set that personal brand up, and that's the pathway you're on.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I want you to continue that because I think that you're absolutely perfect.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a distinct lack of black financial planners, right?
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's as simple as that.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's a distinct lack of black financial planners, and and you perfectly fit them fit the mold, you know?
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, absolutely age.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all that.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you just and I think if you if you work on that now and you really build that out, you're gonna establish a really good, solid following of people that want to use your services in the future.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You just got to keep on building upon that personal brand, building upon the content and putting things out there that people want to know, and they will come to you and they'll and they'll start to to gradually come to you.
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um I agree with you.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know you've really helped me in terms of uh the conversation we had uh recently because you know I I was that guy that was scared to put content out.
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm still that guy.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I still scared to put content out because I'm not familiar with it.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm new to this space.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm I'm I'm I just feel like I'm a finance guy.
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I work in finance, I've always worked in finance.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um putting out content is is an is a new kind of space for me, and and being comfortable with that is is um something I need to get something I need to get used to as well.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important for people to to hear um me as a as a as a black financial advisor, um my my journey, which is why I put that on my website as well, yeah but but also what what content I want to bring out, what kind of information I want to provide, and what kind of individuals I want to help as well, what kind of small businesses I want to help as well.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think um I think picking a niche as well is something that people don't do.
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_02: They try to think, well, I can give advice to that person, that person, that person.
• 1:30:58
  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, you actually can.
• 1:31:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if you also pick a niche, so for example, if I was a financial planner, I would become the financial planner to the recruitment industry.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's no financial planner that I know that markets himself is a financial planner to the recruitment industry.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I do that?
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've done 13 years within recruitment.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know that recruiters earn a lot of money and piss it up against the wall.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also have been a business owner.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of recruiters that earn good money then step into, usually step into um running their own recruitment companies.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of recruitment companies out there, and being a business owner in recruitment is stressful.
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And also you start earning loads of money, you don't quite know what to do with it, and it all becomes you're a business owner and you've got money and and you've probably got no experience of financial services.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden you step in and it's like, right, okay, well, let's look at your staff, let's look at the well-being and the financial well-being of your staff because it's a stressful job.
• 1:31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got any pensions in place?
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's look at that for them as well.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_02: But let's look at you, let's look at what we can do to help you.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Are your goals in, you know, are your financial personal financial goals in line with your business goals?
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's becoming that kind of businessy, coachy financial planner type coaching.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I would do it.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I would go, right, I'll set myself up there, I'll establish all my niches, it's a great big load of people, it's UK wide, it's bloody worldwide, and I know there's a load of people I can talk to, which means then I can narrow down my content.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like if it's it's like um I had a lad on who used to be a professional football player, so his niche is for professional football players.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he was a pro footballer, left the left football.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's a perfect example of being that 1% that made it in football and then didn't.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and how easy it is to leave the game and have no money.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he's working with those guys, educating them, working with agents and saying to agents, look, you said you've got wealth management across your door, but you're not offering any.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Let me be that person.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he's becoming the financial advisor to the football industry, you know.
• 1:32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in Michaela Green, I had on, um, who um she was the first black um chartered female financial planner in the UK, and she likes working with agents, she loves music.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_02: So she works with agents and musicians and entertainers, and she's really starting to establish herself as that niche.
• 1:33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's and when you do that, all of a sudden you think narrowing down will actually make things more difficult for you.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, what it does is it opens up everything to you.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that that for me, that's something that I'm still, you know, fairly new trying to figure out, and only realizing now that I need to kind of build my niche and just kind of build from there.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you go into this space, you know, asking about it earlier on, you you feel like you need to chase everyone.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you you need to get as many kinds as possible.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what they look like, it doesn't matter how much they earn them, it doesn't matter what they're doing, but they they need to be a certain uh criteria, and you just need to get them on board.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think over time you start to realize actually, I need to just kind of fill out this niche and and just focus on that and be an expert in in that space.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think what what always used to work for me, you know, when when I moved into Broken, I had I had a lot of friends around me that were trying to build their own businesses and want me to do businesses and stuff with them.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I just had to focus on broken um so that I could make it work because it wasn't gonna work otherwise.
• 1:34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I realized that it wasn't very straightforward, it wasn't um that easy for me to just get the qualifications and be in it.
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to learn it, I needed to understand it, I needed to understand me in it, and it took time, it took me kind of figuring out things over time to be good at it.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just one of those things you need to find your niche, um, you need to focus on what that looks like and what kind of content you can you can provide to them.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's something I'm still learning and still looking to do.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the things that I'm seeing in other financial planners who are starting to find a niche as well, one of them is this going back to what your coaching is.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned about like life-centered financial planning, yeah, and understanding that life-centered financial planning, but also understanding the behaviors and the psychology of what we do as humans.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then once you can understand that, then you can start to really sort of tap into what people's fears are, not to exploit their fears, but to help bring them to the surface so they themselves can understand why they are fearful, why they are struggling in certain scenarios.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_02: And again, that's that people really want to be helped.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's again another area that I would all, if I was a planner, that I would be utilizing is becoming this well-being person.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm going to make your life better.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make your life happier.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not just about having loads of money, it's about lots of other things.
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's about what you, you know, it's back, you know, if you want to go on those nice holidays, it's if you want to go traveling, it's the house that you're getting.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to be here to help you be realistic and set realistic expectations.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not just, you're not just looking at Instagram and thinking that your life should be that way when actually you can have a beautiful life.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're just you're setting a bar way too high.
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um that type of thing people find really because they then get the chance to open up to a trusted person.
• 1:36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't think anybody really likes to say they don't understand something.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_02: And money is one of those things where people they don't want to be seen to being almost like it's I'm stupid.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it and I think, as you rightfully pointed out, lack of financial education, we're all there's plenty of people that knew bugger all about money.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've experienced that a lot um speaking to, and it's not just black people, um, but I've experienced that a lot speaking to younger people, uh, some people in the black community as well, where um, you know, I've been in I've been in finance since I left uni.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I've been experiencing a lot from credit cards, debts, loans, mortgages, all this kind of stuff.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it sometimes it still surprises me when I might speak to someone and they might say stuff like, I've never had a credit card.
• 1:36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what?
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 1:36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone has a credit card, but it's just because some people were brought up in a way where they're not comfortable with leveraging debt, which is fine for some people, it makes sense.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just sometimes crazy that some of these individuals have never experienced this stuff, but then start thinking about moving into the space of wanting to have a mortgage and you know taking themselves to another level, but not being comfortable with having this small debt over here and knowing how to manage it, and and thinking that they're just gonna get a mortgage just because they want to have a mortgage, yeah.
• 1:37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not understanding how the system looks at things.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it is about that their education and and making sure that they understand um that you know you know money is just um a tool, isn't it?
• 1:37:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's just um a medium of transferring from one to another.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't dictate your life, it doesn't it should have really dictated your life.
• 1:37:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I'm starting to learn that it's just an it's just an energy, it's out there, yeah.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do you can construct things in your life, and that that energy of that money energy can flow towards you or it can flow away from you, but if and it's just then your connection with it and how much of your how much of yourself do you put in it and and and how detrimental is that then to your well-being?
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're living constantly in what you want, you're you're fucked, aren't you?
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you're never happy.
• 1:38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I always when I was broken, the the mentality was, you know, I remember uh the guys I used to work with was like, spend your money, make it back, you know, don't don't worry about it.
• 1:38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just you know, it's never ending this month.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's never ending.
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, you know, you made five, ten grand this month, brilliant.
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Spend it, don't worry, you'll make it back next month.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the mentality, and you just got into a little bit of a rhythm of um, okay, it's fine, I'll I can do what I want with it, I can swander it, I can just splash out and go here, go on holiday and do that, and and then I'll be back to zero and I'll just make it back again.
• 1:38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it helped in terms of being um persistent and and and chasing and um having that motivation, but then it didn't really help me in terms of uh starting to say for my future and for my family and all that kind of stuff because I just didn't have that mentality to go, let me put this some of it here, which then makes you anxious, doesn't it?
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_02: It then makes you anxious because the the more you realize that you can't sustain that life and making that money in a high pressure environment, because inevitably you get burnout, and I experienced that like I was you know raking in like 10 grand a month, and all of a sudden I was like, This isn't actually making me happy, and then I got down, and then I got burnt out, and then I was like, Oh, and I've just spent all that money.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's crazy, and and yeah, man, I think um depending on your your background as well, and the reason I say that is because um I remember working in some of these places and and seeing the different work effort from someone that had come from I wouldn't say privileged background, but someone that didn't essentially need the money, you know, they they didn't need to um do the grafting because if they lost the job, it wasn't the end of the world for them.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then seeing somebody that you know, like myself, that might have come from an area where I wasn't always around money in a certain way.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and once I saw it, I was like, I don't want to lose it.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to work hard to keep it, I need to have it around me, but then not necessarily knowing what to do with it.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a bit of an endless cycle, you know.
• 1:40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You you felt good, you had the instant gratification, and then you back on the low, and then you build yourself back up, and it was just constant, and it was it was never ending.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you're gonna be able to do that.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you're starting to be positive.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're starting to be like what you're starting to do here is you're starting to understand the persona of the type of person that you need to be talking to.
• 1:40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_02: High earners, perhaps in their 30s and 40s, who know really that they should be doing something with their money, but they're not doing it.
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's about and and you're then going through that, and you're there, you're around the same age as them as well, and you've experienced what they've experienced.
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or perhaps people in their 20s could be working as city brokers, stock brokers, high-earning job titles.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can go into LinkedIn, for example, start connecting with job people of certain job titles that you know are high earners, and that's a really useful way of building good clients through LinkedIn, is just targeting people by job title and what they earn, and then starting to build that relationship and then putting content in front of them.
• 1:41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because, as you rightfully said, when you're a trader yourself and when you're trying to build clients in the city, people are busy and they need to be able to digest that information and build the relationship before they meet you.
• 1:41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a great way of doing it is connecting with them and then giving them content, and then they'll come to you, or you can then reach out to them and they'll say is like, Do you know what?
• 1:41:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen your content, Michael, I like it.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I get it.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_02: I phone people up and I'm like, Hey, how are you doing?
• 1:41:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's Sam from Financial Planet Life.
• 1:41:55
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, yeah, I've seen your videos, I've never spoken to them before ever, but they know me, and it's like a hell of an easier conversation to have.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's the kind of power in it.
• 1:42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Michael, the biggest hurdle, yeah.
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that is a big that is a big hurdle.
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Michael, I've got to draw this to an end because I've got um um well, that's the end of the podcast.
• 1:42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:42:16
  SPEAKER_02: I could talk to you all day about this, and um, I think what we'll do, Michael, as well is um we'll catch up anyway, and um yeah, we'll talk about this personal branding stuff and um how potentially I can help you and um give you some hints and tips and pointers.
• 1:42:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and the aim for me at the moment is to create a really decent personal branding workshop that gets people thinking about the persona of the the audience that they want to target and how to get over hurdles such as what are people gonna think of me, what content should I put out, how do I do it, what tools do I need, is it gonna cost me loads of money?
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_02: All these things that stop us from doing it, and then setting like a plan of action.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody goes, right, within eight weeks, I know that I'm gonna put out 10, 15, 20 pieces of content.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of that, we could actually see what value that's actually added.
• 1:43:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm that's the sort of thing that I want to do.
• 1:43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is a workshop like that where it encourages and guides you to do the work yourself.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the biggest things around personal brand is that you have to do the work yourself, no one's gonna do it for you.
• 1:43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no one can tell you who you are, yeah.
• 1:43:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, and that's the do you know what?
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is though, right?
• 1:43:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can pull a mobile phone up, record into your mobile phone in 15 minutes, put some subtitles on it, whip it out of the door, and it's job done.
• 1:43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes people can overcomplicate it.
• 1:43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's my problem there.
• 1:43:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the one thing that you you told me before, and and I I'm still struggling to kind of get my head around of just it, and it's almost just executing.
• 1:43:54
  SPEAKER_00: It sometimes it's not even just a case of you know what you want to say, but it's just actually executing and feeling comfortable in your own skin with what you've created and what you put out there, and you know, just being unapologetic about it, you know.
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:44:10
  SPEAKER_02: As long as you believe if it's something that you would tell somebody face to face, yeah, you should feel confident to put it on your social media and tell everyone.
• 1:44:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 1:44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I might write that down.
• 1:44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I like that, I might write that down.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that that's but that's the truth, isn't it?
• 1:44:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's the authentic again.
• 1:44:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if I'm confident to tell somebody face to face and it's not a lie and I'm not misleading or anything like that, then why shouldn't I tell everybody?
• 1:44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, put yourself on a platform and do it because that's what it's about, you know.
• 1:44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, sometimes someone might not like your personality, they might not like what you look like.
• 1:44:48
  SPEAKER_02: So what?
• 1:44:48
  SPEAKER_02: How many people what you're gonna walk into you go out and you get you go into a room full of 50 women, right?
• 1:44:52
  SPEAKER_02: I tell you what, not all of them are gonna like you, you know.
• 1:44:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can't you can't surprise, but you're probably right, yeah.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can't please yeah, it doesn't happen to me.
• 1:45:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm swamped, it's a nightmare.
• 1:45:06
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, you can't please all the people all the time, and you can't, you know, it's as simple as that.
• 1:45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think once you get that lodged in your head, the fear leaves you.
• 1:45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, what I've found that it's done huge things for my confidence.
• 1:45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm okay with I know there's financial advisors out there probably look at me going, Oh, this guy's a dipstick, you know, a recruiter trying to talk about financial planning.
• 1:45:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, no, and other people come to me saying, Thank you so much for your content, you know, it's really helping me.
• 1:45:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I gravitate towards.
• 1:45:36
  SPEAKER_02: If I know that there's 10, 15 people in a week that come to me and say they love my stuff, I'm doing something right, aren't I?
• 1:45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that that that I think that was a key thing for me.
• 1:45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think being able to show myself through this website and be comfortable with who I am and not worry about what other people think, because I think that's always held me back.
• 1:45:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm a I have been and I probably always will be a people pleaser to in one way, shape, or form.
• 1:46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think over time I've just started and I'm still learning to just be comfortable with who I am and not too focused about what other people think about me and what what I look like and how talking, all this kind of stuff.
• 1:46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there's still people out there for me to help, irrespective of that.
• 1:46:23
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, mate.
• 1:46:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I tell you what, being being yourself, you attract the right people.
• 1:46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the and another thing I'll say on that is that why pretend to be somebody you're not?
• 1:46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're going to build a long-term relationship with somebody, you need to get on with them.
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:46:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and they need to like you, exactly.
• 1:46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you're just putting on all your airs and graces all the time and you're living a lie.
• 1:46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to have that one weekend where you change into somebody else, and they're like, Who's this guy?
• 1:46:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, you want you want people to see you see everything about you and you know, laugh at your jokes and cringe at you sometimes and all of that.
• 1:46:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, I think that's what it's about.
• 1:47:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you're certainly on the right path, and that was another reason why I wanted to get you on the podcast because I because I know that you're on the right path.
• 1:47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you're early at the early stage of your career.
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're definitely from a from someone on the outside looking in, yeah, you've got it there, mate.
• 1:47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Just go with it and we'll and we'll um, you know, and I'll um I'll keep in contact with you, mate.
• 1:47:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:47:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and see and see where the road takes us.
• 1:47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 1:47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that, really appreciate that, Sam.
• 1:47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good.
• 1:47:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really like this.
• 1:47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
• 1:47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Top man, well, thank you so much for being a guest.
• 1:47:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you shared loads of content today that I think would be really interesting to anybody that's thinking about a career within financial planning and um also looking to to to sort of you know get ahead in the game, really.
• 1:47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:47:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, thank you so much for your um time today.
• 1:47:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um I'll get the podcast tops and tailed, and I'll let you know when I'm releasing it.
• 1:47:46
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:47:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, thanks.
• 1:47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 1:47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sweet.