Latest / The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast / Will This Be Kevin Stefanski's Final Month as the Browns Head Coach? - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 12/2/25

Transcript

Will This Be Kevin Stefanski's Final Month as the Browns Head Coach? - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 12/2/25 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Dog's Podcast with your hosts, Lake Renaker, Justin Charles, and Josh All.
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, what's up, Browns fans.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to another episode of the Dog's Podcast.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Josh All, you're host today on a very snowy morning here in my neck of the woods in Ohio, wherever you guys are at.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the weather's like, but if the roads are slick and icy, and covered in snow, make sure you guys have a safe,
0:36
[SPEAKER_00]: commute to work and wherever you're going today.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to get into some things from the game on Sunday.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously the Browns dropping yet another one at home to the 49ers this time.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got some things to look forward to next week against the Titans when they come to town and then we're going to dive into some of the blunders and some coaching things and a little bit of quarterback drama that seems to be coming up yet again.
1:01
[SPEAKER_00]: in Cleveland Brown's, well, the history of the Cleveland Brown's quarterback situation, just another chapter.
1:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure.
1:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll get into all that.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure you guys remember if you want to join the dog pack, be part of our dog pack discord episodes that we do live every Thursday to preview the upcoming game.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be doing the Titans preview this Thursday at 5 p.m. Eastern in the discord.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Go to join the dogs dot com becoming official dog pack
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, the 24-7 chat in the dog-pack community on discord, the diehard browns fans that are in there, guys, gals from all over the country, all over the world.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: There are browns fans from everywhere in there and it's just a ton of fun.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great place to be.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus you get the opportunity to play fancy football with us each season.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: and then also we're going to be doing the dog pack discord live episodes beyond the season.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: After the games are over, no more previews.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking draft and free agency, maybe a new coaching surge, coaching hires, all that kind of stuff live every week in the discourse.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you guys have to join the dogs dot com.
2:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And one last thing I want to remind you guys, we are going to do a live watch party on Sunday for the Browns Titan's Game Cam Ward versus Shidorah Sanders.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be for what we're dubbing the suckable three because remember suckable one.
2:27
[SPEAKER_00]: was Browns v. Jets suck bull two was Browns v. Raiders and now suck bull three is Browns v Titans, but at least we get to see these two top quarterback prospects from 2025 with camorcia doorstanders facing off.
2:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be tracking miles Garrett Sachs if if
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he can set the sack record in this game.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be watching this.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be with you guys live for the entire game.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to kick it off about 12.45 about 15 minutes before the game.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Do a little pre game show talking all that kind of stuff.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Justin fingers crossed will be with us for the live stream.
3:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He did get a message from him.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He does appear to be alive and apparently well.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is good.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That is good.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I know he's just got a lot going on right now.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, why you just got a broken ankle.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got the kids like just.
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: his life is is very hectic, but we did get some communication from Justin so I appreciate everybody who was concerned about his well-being.
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so the live stream is going to be a ton of fun.
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be with you guys for the whole game.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, we'll do a little post game wrap up at the end.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So there won't be a live reaction show Sunday night because obviously we'll be reacting with you during the whole game and all that kind of stuff.
3:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you tune in Sunday 1245 on YouTube.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We will be live.
3:40
[SPEAKER_00]: watch party for the Titans and Browns game.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's kick things off here with some notes on injuries unfortunately.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They are starting to really pile up for the Browns here late in the season and we've got things starting off with right guard Wyatt Teller.
3:56
[SPEAKER_00]: They've already come out and said that he will be out for Sunday's game with a calf injury.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: This one's interesting because the Browns had already been rotating Wyatt Teller and Tevin Jenkins that right guard in this most previous gaming and supporting Niners, which was apparently a planned coaches decision.
4:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Wyatt Teller said it was his performance based.
4:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He hadn't really been playing up to what the expectations were.
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So the team wanted to get an extended look at Tevin Jenkins.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is something I've kind of been talking about all season was the Browns could at some point be looking to extend heaven Jenkins as part of the offensive line heading into 2026.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And it looks like they're trying now to get that evaluation.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So with only four games remaining after this week.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So tellers already missing this week and then there's only four games left after that with a calf injury and we know that those can really be nagging and
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Coupled with the fact that the team has already taken some action here to get Tevin Jenkins on the field to get their evaluation of him.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We could very well have seen why it tellers last game on the field for the Cleveland Browns.
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really sad and sucks because it was his 100th start for the Browns.
5:12
[SPEAKER_00]: He got what honored or you know, acknowledged before the game for his 100th start.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: for the team.
5:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in that 100 start is whenever they're starting to rotate a back up into C if maybe he can play better, the anteller or at least be part of the future.
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think an extension for why a teller anymore is in the cards for the Browns.
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So it sucks because we love why a teller is one of our favorite Browns maybe ever.
5:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But the writing might be on the wall here for teller.
5:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, moving next to him right tackle Jack Conklin is back in concussion protocol once again.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the second time this year and that's also like a 99% chance pretty much 100 if you ask me.
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He won't be available for the game on Sunday.
5:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Browns aren't going to have their starting right guard or they're starting right tackle, which means uh...
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We had KT Leviston come in on Sunday, so I imagine he'll be the one to get the start at right tackle against the Titans.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just disgusting that your best depth option at tackle is the guy we signed off the Rams practice squad before the season.
6:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love to know what the heck happened to Cornelius Lucas.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so excited that the Brown signed him to be the swing tackle before the season.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: He played so well for Washington over his years there.
6:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a, whether it was backup, right or left tackle, there were games that he started right and left tackle and he played very well for them.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this year he comes to Cleveland and suddenly he just sucks so bad that he's not even active for games and KT freaking Leviston is your swing tackle instead.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: just unreal.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Just unreal.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the drop-off and talent when players come to Cleveland versus what they had done before and after Cleveland, that really needs to be investigated.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we've also got Dylan Samson.
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He was ruled out with a calf injury in the 49ers game, Kevin Sefancy said he's more day-to-day, so there's a chance that he'll be available on okay to play on Sunday.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Samson's a guy we need.
7:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a guy we need.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We last week, Jerome Ford was already dealing with a hamstring injury and practice.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He ended up being okay
7:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't care if you're going forward to 100% healthy.
7:28
[SPEAKER_00]: He's now a guy went on the field anyway.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So we need Dylan Samson healthy and ready to go.
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the big one.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the one, this is the one, the job.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, all injuries suck, but this one just flat out sucks the most.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Mleek Collins, veteran defensive tackle.
7:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Season ending surgery for a quad injury that he sustained on Sunday.
7:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys remember he got carted off the field.
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And what has been the best season of his entire career?
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a guy who's had a good career.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: In the NFL, 30 years old, he's played many years.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was the best he was on pace to have his best statistical season and everything.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: He already had six and a half sacks.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: this season, which is his new career high already with five games remaining, 25 tackles, seven tackles for loss and 13 quarterback hits.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a monster pairing on the defensive line with Miles Garrett.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: These two benefited and helped each other so freaking, much Miles Garrett.
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no question in my mind.
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That miles Garrett sack totals right now in the fact that he's on this whole of fame, you know, best season in NFL history trajectory at the defensive end position this is
8:46
[SPEAKER_00]: This is in large part due to the presence of Malik Collins on the interior.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm not taking anything away from like Mason Graham, like the Malik Collins Mason Graham pairing in the interior has been for rocious this year.
8:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been so good.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It has helped miles cared.
9:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It helped Alex right getting an extension.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys all help each other.
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys have been feeding off of each other.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the best defensive front we've ever seen in Cleveland.
9:10
[SPEAKER_00]: At least in my memory.
9:13
[SPEAKER_00]: and Malik Collins was a humongous part of that.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So losing him for the rest of the season sucks.
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, obviously, at this point in the season, the brown suck, we're not going to play else or anything like that, like that.
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That was never in the question.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the biggest things we've got left remaining, aside from watching Shador Sanders continue to develop and grow and see what he can do, is watching Miles Garrett set this single season sack record.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's easily going to be the deep boy.
9:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll be the defensive player of the year this year.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're witnessing another great historic season from Miles Garrett.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's going to be a first-bell at Hall of Famer.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I try to say his often as I can't appreciate what you're watching.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're watching Brown's games, even though they suck,
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: watch the greatness that is Miles Garrett because you'll remember this for the rest of your lives.
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You won't remember, you'll tell your kids and grandkids, I remember watching Miles Garrett because they'll see his face, they'll hear about the whole family, he'll be on broadcast, whatever he does later in life.
10:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You will be able to point back and say, I watched the season that he obliterated the NFL single season sack record.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's happening right now.
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And it could even happen on Sunday.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's only four sacks of ways.
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got 19 right now.
10:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He needs four more sacks to hold the record by himself.
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: The record is 22 and a half by Michael Strahan and TJ Watts.
10:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he gets four more, he's at 23 boom.
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The record is his and if you guys saw this, I don't know, I didn't understand what was going on because I wasn't listening.
10:38
[SPEAKER_00]: to the actual broadcast when I was watching the game, but because I had it on mute, I was doing baby stuff and we had Thanksgiving, but Miles Garrett had 25 written on his arm tape during the game, and the reporter asked him about it, and he said that something about the total sex that he's gearing up for, that he would like to hit this season, was written on his...
11:02
[SPEAKER_00]: equipment somewhere or whatever.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So they found the 25 on his tape and said, okay, he's he's going to for 25 sacks this season.
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of got to railed there talking about Miles Garrett, but the reason I'm talking so much about Miles Garrett having this career season is tied to the fact that Malik Collins was on this defensive line with him.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So huge loss for the Brown's big, big loss for the Brown's defense.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know what else to say.
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like Millie Collins.
11:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very thrilled to have him on the team.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited for what he can do coming back next season.
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: He's under contract again, so that's great.
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: This was one of the best off-season signings for Andrew Barry.
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about Cornelius Lucas coming here and being a good, what we thought was a good off-season signing and turning into a pile of nothing.
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on the other side of the coin, the other side of the ball, you got Malik Collins.
11:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a great, we thought was a great offseason signing and has turned into exactly that.
11:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So thoughts and prayers make Malik Collins hope your recovery goes well, get back on that field, even stronger and more powerful next year.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's always tough to come in here with a lot of hype and positivity after a loss, especially at excruciating loss.
12:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Sunday was, there will be some positivity.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some definitely some good things to talk about.
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to that here in a little bit, but right now I want to talk about at 3 and 9.
12:27
[SPEAKER_00]: The Cleveland Browns now have their fourth losing season under Kevin Stephansky.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That is four out of six.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, if Joe Flackwebs said this before, if Joe Flacko had not signed here in 2023, it would most likely be five losing seasons out of six because the Browns were not going to go to the playoffs or achieve a winning record with DTR quarterback.
12:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the position we were in, if you remember, in 2023 things were looking pretty bleak.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Four of the Browns before Joe Flacco came in here and saved our behinds.
12:59
[SPEAKER_00]: 2025, this season will now become the Browns 23rd, losing season since they returned to the NFL in 1999.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So it has been 27 seasons since 1999 and we have only had four winning seasons.
13:15
[SPEAKER_00]: in that span.
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to all you new Browns fans.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't understand yet, why Browns fans can be so cynical or negative about things about the team, about all this stuff?
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, right, there's your answer.
13:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We have been nothing.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We have seen nothing, but abject failure from this organization's 23 losing seasons, 42 different starting
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We are still here.
13:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We are the most loyal fan base in all of sports.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't hear an argument against it.
13:49
[SPEAKER_00]: This organization 100% does not deserve us.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: but we're still not going anywhere.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We will be here and we will be ridiculing this organization until they get it right because I'm not a ship jumper.
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going somewhere else where I think the grass is greener.
14:06
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my team.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my city.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I will root for this team until I die.
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will also criticize this organization for not putting the best product possible on the field and this season has been nowhere close to the best product.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So that takes him into this.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Bubba Ventrone, still here, not fired.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, Kevin Stephansky does not ever fire underperforming coordinators during the season.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He never has and he never will.
14:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, there's only five games left this season.
14:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just...
14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: pack it in.
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's individual things to look for, but as far as the team goes, it's over.
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Joe Woods, the first three years under Kevin defense was terrible, but Kevin kept him for three years before we firing him.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: My pre-first special teams coordinator before that, three years also before firing him.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Alex VanPelt four years before he got fired, still not sure why they fired Alex VanPelt other than the organization likely said you have to get a new offensive coordinator in here to try to work with Dishon Watson, got to make this work, whatever.
15:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But either way, that was a very bad decision because the team has been so much worse since VanPelt left and then they fired Kevin Err, I can Dorsey last year after just one season.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So now,
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: if and this is a big if if Kevin's defense he stays in Cleveland beyond the season.
15:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Bubba ventrown.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, no doubt he'll be fired.
15:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He would be the second special team coordinator fired in the fifth coordinator fired under Kevin's defense in six years.
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: five coordinator firings in six years, like Jake Bern said on a previous podcast with me.
15:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He said at some point, Kevin, the common denominator is you.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Special teams have been very bad every season under Kevin Stephanski in the last five years.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The Browns have given up five touchdowns on returns.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the most in the NFL.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: On Sunday, special teams allowed a 66 yard return to our 15 yard line set up the 49ers early score.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Gage Larva Dan muffed not one, not two, but three puns.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He recovered the first two.
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: on the third.
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Malachi Corley catches a kick off going out of bounds at the five yard line.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: How does any returner?
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about it, perfect.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: How does any returner college or pro not know to just let it go out of bounds?
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't kick out of bounds.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a penalty.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the ball at the freaking 40 yard line.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost midfield.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, we lose 35 yards of field position and start the drive basically on our own goal line because of a blunder by the returner.
16:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that hold the buckle nearly ended in the offense getting a safety.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a bismal football that we watch here in Cleveland.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and just for anybody who doesn't know this, Bubba Ventrone is not just the Brown Special Teams coordinator.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He is also the assisted head coach.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You wonder why this team looks so poorly coached every week?
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because they are.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because they are.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You got the wrong people in the wrong positions.
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to hear excuses about having gun players and bad personnel and all this stuff.
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: This crap has been happening every year that Kevin's been here.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Harold Fan and Jr. Was asked about the fumbled snap on the fourth and one QV sneak I'm going to get into this now.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He took the blame and said that he needs to execute the play he needs to get the snap or he should have just called timeout.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: No!
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Harold, you're a freaking tight end, you're a rookie, you're taking your first career NFL snap under center in a high pressure situation in your own territory because your moronic head coach has no sense or situational awareness about him.
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Harold, calling time out is not on you.
18:20
[SPEAKER_00]: not on you young man.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on your head coach.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And he did not stop the play like he should have.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know like Sunday night Blake said he didn't mind the Browns going for him fourth down on their own 33, but you know what I do.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a big problem with it.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The score was 10 to 8.
18:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a close game.
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You're keeping it tight with a good team on your home field.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's halfway through the third quarter.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You just got stuffed on 3rd and 1.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Punt the freaking ball away and let your number one defense and the league go out on the field and try to make something happen.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Miles Garrett to that point had been coming within inches of multiple sacks.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Already in this game, you're facing a quarterback Brock Pretty who just threw three interceptions less than a week ago and he has seven picks thrown in four games.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, you decided to have your rookie tight end.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Take this snap and try to cube sneak it.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The kids never taken a snap in a game before.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: The players weren't lined up properly.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Shedores out there trying to direct traffic.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: The play clocks running down.
19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You got why it tell they're running on the field.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They're rushing to try to get the play off.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And they fumble the snap.
19:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Any decent head coach would have seen all that chaos taking place on the field on your own 33 yard line in a two-point game.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: and you would have quickly called timeout, reassessed, gotten your wits about you and punted the damn ball.
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You got a rookie quarterback in his second career start.
19:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You're putting people in, this is what I hate about Kevin Safansky, this is what I hate.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Every week he gets grilled and asked this crap in the media, press conferences, all that kind of stuff and he says, we're trying to put our players in the best position to succeed.
19:56
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're not.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's not!
19:59
[SPEAKER_00]: How is going for it on 4th and 1 on your own 33 with a stupid, stupid play call?
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: In any way, putting anybody in the position to succeed, you are putting should doorstanders behind the eight ball.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: 49ers get an easy score, they go up, it's 17 to eight.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as you get down, they're taking away the run, you are putting should doorstanders in a terrible position, terrible.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not helping him, you're not helping anybody.
20:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I am just, you guys know, I'm done with Kevin Stephansky.
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And just this crap has happened way too much, way too often, over six years and done.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to move on.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of moving on, let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back.
20:41
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22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, thanks you guys for listening and on that now.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's ready for the latest edition of Quarterback Drama in Cleveland?
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I debated even talking about this, but it's getting way too much traction on social media to just ignore.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So clearly people who are interested in talking about it, so let's dive in here.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got Dylan Gabriel's fiancé, her name is Zoe Caswell.
22:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Now again, if you guys...
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know a lot about her at all other than what's been going on here, but she's going viral right now on Brown's Twitter for her latest post after the game after the 49ers game.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And her caption on her TikTok video says this, Brown's lost again, what's new with a crying laughter emoji.
22:58
[SPEAKER_00]: There was also another video where she was arguing with somebody in the comments and she wrote, quote, actually everyone in the building wants Dylan to play, but you wouldn't know that because you've never played in the NFL or been a couch, right?
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm certain the person she was talking to has never been a couch, but he's probably also never been a coach, which I think is what she's trying to write there.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But hey, not everybody's spell checks or even reads back what they write before they post it publicly.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Now people are taking her comments on TikTok and linking them to the things that Dylan Gabriel has said earlier in the season that we touched on back when it happened.
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: The his there's performers and there's entertainers comment and then the if you're always waiting for the perfect time comment people would were attacking him saying well he was taken under hands shots at should or Sanders with those comments and things like that and it's like now I think in the in the context of those comments I think you can draw that
23:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You can draw a parallel between a lot of things even if they don't exist.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's a little more interesting with his fiance coming out here in pretty much throwing shade at Shador, it seems like, and the team, because her man is not the starting quarterback.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So all I really know about this is that Gabriel's fiance doing this, saying these things, making these videos, saying, post in these comments, it's not helping anyone.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And remember, Shador Sanders got hammered in the media.
24:25
[SPEAKER_00]: The national media unfairly I might add for being quote, immature and not handling the backup role very well.
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: All that dude ever did was talk about being ready for his moment and supporting Dylan Gabriel.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He even told fans to stop chanting for him when Dylan Gabriel was the starter because he said it doesn't help him.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants Dylan to be the most confident version of himself when he takes the field.
24:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Chanting for Shador doesn't help that.
24:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He told fans to just stop doing that.
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So right now it seems like maybe we got a Dylan Gabriel and his family circus problem going on here.
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I know, and you guys let me know in the comments if you agree or not, but this is obviously my opinion, but I am very confident in saying this.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The Browns completely wasted a third round pick on Dylan Gabriel.
25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Wasted it.
25:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The second that Shador Sanders pick was announced at 144 that 94 pick on Dylan Gabriel was instantly wasted.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Wash.
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said this before.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as the Browns drafted Shador, there was an expiration date on Dylan Gabriel's opportunity in Cleveland no matter what he did on the field.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: People were always going to be looking past him, looking at Shador Sanders and waiting for Shador to get on the field.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: There were so many freaking players that we could have taken instead of doing Gabriel.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I've highlighted a few of these on social media in the past week or so.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: There was Jared Wilson, the offensive guard that went to the Patriots.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that was either the pick or two picks after doing Gabriel.
26:03
[SPEAKER_00]: There was Xavier Watts, the safety from Notre Dame that I really wanted the Browns to take.
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Me and Kenny Mac did episodes last year talking about prospects and Xavier Watts was one of the players that we highlighted Kenny was big on him.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, man, if the Browns could get Xavier Watts somewhere in the second round, that would be awesome for our defense.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He ends up going two or three picks after Dylan Gabriel late in the third round.
26:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We could have had him and he's like an all rookie team type player for the Falcons this year.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And we could have had him.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, we took Dylan Gabriel instead.
26:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So many players we could have had.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And that whole evaluation of the quarterback physician, the decision making from Kevin's to fancy on Dylan Gabriel being the guy to take first team reps all summer long like all that stuff is another reason why I just can't deal with Kevin anymore.
26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: this team.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust this coaching staff with quarterback evaluation.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want them pick an accorded back next year.
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If the team comes out and says we are definitely taking a quarterback in 2026 and I want to fire everybody and bring in somebody else to make that decision.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust you guys at all.
27:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Periods.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want you doing it.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So we actually have a voice note here from Claude, which I think this is actually a pretty good spot to play this.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, first time voicemail leader, Canadian, grew up, bread across the lake, Eriot, Ontario, my mom's American, grew up in Newclet.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you guys.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Love what you're doing.
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I've learned a lot, but what I want to say is when it's the Vanski talks about Shidorah, when they ask them questions and whatnot, I hate you can clearly see the guy does not like Shidorah, that through his body language.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure that's set, but my conspiracy on it is like, do you think like back of the day, Deon rubs to Fanski the wrong way?
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they're not driving, right?
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And as for Shidorah starting, I'm stoked, but I don't think Gabriel should be overlooked, like the guy knows ball, and he was in the draft for a reason.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess like is there a situation where Gabriel doesn't leave but is more like on the coaching staff and you have a quarterback and a coach or assistant coach.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but they like wrote together because my fear is we send Gabriel away.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Miami or something and next thing, you know, he's balling it.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, talk found.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me say this before I address a lot of things in your voicemail cloud number one thank you for calling in love here from people for the first time it's great if you want to leave a voicemail go to the docs podcast dot com tap live voicemail you can record your message listen to a back re-recorded if you don't like it send it in or you can just leave a mess you can actually just type a message right there on the website and send it to us on where read on the show we got another one of those here coming up in a little bit
28:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So I understand the sentiment of being concerned that a Browns player will leave the Browns go somewhere else and have success.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I get it.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That happens a lot.
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That happens a ton.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that'll ever happen with Dylan Gabriel.
29:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, you can take Dylan Gabriel and put him, I don't care.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Put him on the dolphins, put him somewhere else, put him on another team.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Put them on the Vikings, send them to Kevin O'Connell.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't change the fact that he has no arms strength.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't change the fact that he's short as hell, and he can't see over the line.
29:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that stuff is all still the same.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that they saw, the beat reporters in training camp and preseason all this stuff at practice and when they were saying, hey look, this guy does not look like an NFL quarterback this guy is struggling, he doesn't look good.
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that they reported is exactly what we saw in the field, exactly what we saw play out.
29:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried about Dylan Gabriel going anywhere else and having success.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think he is what he is.
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a bad pick.
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a bad pick.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He should have gone 6 or 7th round in the draft if he was going to be drafted.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably should have been a UDFA, but you know, leave it to Cleveland to do an Anthony Schwarzenegger guy way before he ever should have been taken based on what traits.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really not sure.
30:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what the analytics said about a small quarterback with sub par arm strength.
30:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, whatever, whatever.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I think, honestly, there was a lot of about that pic that was Kevin's defense.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably lobbying for Dylan Gabriel because
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was the general manager, if it was Andrew Barry in the front office that had such strong conviction that Dylan Gabriel is the guy to take here in the third round.
30:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to use this pick on him.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to give him an opportunity this year.
30:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They never were to take another quarter back in the draft, especially not should or Sanders.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's rift.
30:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's two different paths of sight being seen here by the coaching staff, Kevin Stefanski, and the front office, General Manager Andrew Barry, and I think it spells doom for Kevin in the end.
30:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But coming back to your question about doing Gabriel.
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really sure what you're getting that clawed as far as, like, you think that he'll just retire as a player and, and the Browns will sign him onto the coaching staff after one season in the NFL.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's a 24 or 25 year old kid, like he's he's in the prime of his athletic, you know.
31:23
[SPEAKER_00]: physical prior like career like he's he wants to play football.
31:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not he's not going to be a coach.
31:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's ever been a situation where anything like that has ever happened where a rookie quarterback or player has just retired and then signed on to the coaching staff.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd be a super young coach.
31:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the question.
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's any world in which that is even a possibility.
31:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll just leave it at that.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: If anybody wants to chime in the comments, go right ahead.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate hearing from everybody as always.
31:56
[SPEAKER_00]: What I want to talk about then is Dylan Giebriel versus obviously Shidorah Sanders.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: What I wanted to compare specifically is, second career starts, okay.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Second career starts for these guys.
32:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And how things played out with the context of their preparation.
32:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you ride just said it a little bit ago, Dylan Gabriel by the time he was starting for the Browns had had multiple reps.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: practices, opportunities with the first team offense, with the starting line, with the starting receivers, all that kind of stuff.
32:40
[SPEAKER_00]: By the time Shidorah Sanders got to his second start for the Browns, he had had two weeks of that kind of prep with the starters, with first team reps and everything.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So Dylan Gabriel has had months and months and months of preparation to gear him up for his first two starts.
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Shidorah Sanders had none of that.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: None of that.
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that's important to keep in the context when you're comparing these two performances.
33:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's an argument to be made here that Dylan Gabriel's second start was actually easier than Shador's second start because the 49ers defense coach by Robert Sala while they are decimated by injuries.
33:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still a very tough defense and he's still a very, very good defensive coordinator.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: the Steelers.
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That was Dylan Gabriel's second career star.
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the opponent.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Their defense, if you watch the Steelers this year, their defense is struggling.
33:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Their defense is giving up a lot of yards, a lot of plays to other teams, and that is who Dylan Gabriel got to face.
33:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm not sitting here saying the Steelers are a pushover or a bad defense.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, I think comparing the two, I just think Shador might have had the more difficult matchup whenever he got his second
33:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's fair.
33:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not you guys let me know.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But in these two starts.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So people are obviously split on, excuse me, should our standards performance here?
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: In his second start, this past week and against the 49ers, he was 16 of 25 for 149 yards, that's six yards on average and one touchdown no picks.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: He took three sacks for 34 yards lost.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: remember I got some context with those two uh they gave who he has a passer rating of 93.6 so not not a bad passer rating but they gave it ESPN gives him a QBR of 16.1 so another super low abysmal QBR rating and I did a whole thing last week about why
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this metric from ESPN because I'm really seeing now people have said this to me for years and now I'm on board like this this is a flawed metric because they're given Shador Sanders 16 to 25 that was what 64% completion.
34:53
[SPEAKER_00]: 149 yards attached down no picks and he has a 16.1 QBR.
34:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That is super low.
35:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Gabriel had almost two times higher QBR and that started against the Steelers.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a 30.4 QBR.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though his passer rating was 66.3 shodores was 90 what?
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: 93.96 point something?
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Gabriel 66.3 pass rating, but the QBR ESPN has him double what Shidorah was at 30.4, and Dylan Gabriel stats were 29 of 52, 221 yards, no touchdowns, no pitch, just a 4.3 average, six sacks.
35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Gabriel took six sacks in that game.
35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he only had 38 yards,
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Gabriel had twice as many.
35:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So the sack thing for Shidorah said this on Sunday night, I'll reiterate it now in the last six competitive quarters of Cleveland Browns football.
35:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the four quarters of the Oakland Raider, Oakland.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: The Las Vegas Raiders game and the first two quarters, I could even say the first two and a half quarters of the 49ers game, Shidorah Sanders took a total of two sacks.
36:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Two sacks for not very many yards lost because I think his one sack against the Raiders was only three yards lost.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The two big crippling, you know, big lost yardage sacks occurred after the game was already gone for the Browns.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We were down multiple scores to face get already out or been out coached to the point where this game was over, and should or standard was trying to make plays.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really fault, and maybe I should go back and watch the tape one more time.
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not really falchid or Sanders for his play in the fourth quarter of that game.
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Because what else are you, what else do you want to rookie quarterback in his second start with minimal preparation to this point?
36:55
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want him to do?
36:57
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to, this kid is a winner.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a baller.
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what he does.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes out there and tries to find and will his team to win.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's a little different than the NFL than it was in college.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get down by multiple scores, especially when you are the Cleveland Browns, it's over.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's over.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no coming back.
37:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going back to college football mindset.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go out here and I'm going to play hero ball and just try to, you know, have a deep bomb play, a deep bomb touchdown.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't fault him for that.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's his second start.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: He's 23 years old.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what do people genuinely want him to do in that situation?
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The first two and a half quarters when the game was only a two point game.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a competitive contest.
37:43
[SPEAKER_00]: He played great in my opinion.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not saying like other world layer anything like that, but for what he is for a rookie and his second start with very minimal practice reps to this point and his experiences next to none in the NFL at this point.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what more we want him to do.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't know what more.
38:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We want him to do so.
38:07
[SPEAKER_00]: just just looking at those two, those two starts.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The second career start for Dylan Gabriel and the second career start for Shidorah Sanders.
38:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The outcome of the game pretty much the same.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The Browns lost to the Steelers 23 to 9 and the Browns lost to the 49ers 26 to 8.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So either way, the second career start for both of these guys did not go well on the scoreboard.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... i do believe should or senders vastly all performed what dill and gave her was able to do because remember dill and gave her had fifty two pass attempts he got fifty two opportunities to throw the ball and he had no touch sounds and he had about six passes if you remember the stealers game and they have zero interceptions turnover worthy plays were pretty high because he threw a lot of passes that hit stealer defenders hands but we're just dropped fortunately for the browns
39:00
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39:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Last thing I want to talk about here, so, and people are going to, I see this all over social media, you know, his, his PFF grade so far this season is one of the worst in the league is QBR's, one of the worst in the league.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You get to remember when those numbers, when those grades and things are being factored in for the season, they're including the second half of that Baltimore Raven's game that, I don't, I'm sorry.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't count that for sure, because he wasn't supposed to be in there.
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't prepared.
40:00
[SPEAKER_00]: He had to remember zero first team reps.
40:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Zero reps with the first team.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever before that time he stepped on field.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Why tellers said the offensive line was getting together in the tunnel at halftime to try to learn his cadence.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So no, I'm not going to include the second half of the Raiders game in my evaluation.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So over in PFF, I'm looking at weeks 12 and 13.
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So the two weeks that should door Sanders started games and actually had a week of practice to prep.
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: how did he compare in those two weeks to the other quarterbacks in the league?
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing that I really like to look at here, yards per attempt.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is one of the big things that you know, we're knocking these other quarterbacks for the Browns, especially Dillon Gabriel.
40:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's saying, well, all should doorstanders is throw check downs and passes behind the line of scrimmage.
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: His yards per attempt over his two starts, six highest in the league, over the last two weeks, 8.0, 8.0 yards per attempt, the highest is 10.2, which is James Winston, and then you got deck press, got Drake, May Trevor Lawrence, Matthew Stafford at 8.2, and then should door Sanders at 8.0, six highest yards per average.
41:14
[SPEAKER_00]: In the league over the last two weeks, since he has been named the starter, I like that.
41:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like that.
41:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So then, you know, let's look at, like, A dot, the highest, of course, again, James Winston.
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: This is average depth of target.
41:29
[SPEAKER_00]: 12.8 should door Sanders is 16th at same as his yards per average.
41:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Average depth of target is 8.0.
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That is just what we've got.
41:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Drake May at 8.5, Baker May field at 8.2, Caleb Williams at 8.2, Matthew Stafford at 8.0, and Shidorah Sanders at 8.0 average depth of targets.
41:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to dispel some of these false narratives that all you do is just throw the ball behind the line of the screen.
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: His average depth of target is eight yards.
42:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That is right on pace with some of the the high performing
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: he is doing fine.
42:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at like his completion percentage over those two weeks is 60% so not, you know, not stellar but at the same time it's not terrible.
42:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What I always do like to look at is a just a completion percentage and his adjusted completion percentage is 72.5.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: because it includes some throw or not.
42:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, include some, what is it?
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, a Jessica, it includes the drop passes.
42:35
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, I think he's got two drop passes in here, a 6.9% drop rate from his team because they suck.
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
42:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else so now that the big thing that he's getting knocked for is his time to throw is definitely the longest in the NFL at three point three seconds on average time to throw over his two starts but again.
42:58
[SPEAKER_00]: People are looking at time to throw and saying, all he's doing is holding the ball.
43:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes and no, now there are times when holding the ball is a bad thing, there's times when holding the ball is a, it's okay.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to talk about that in context with the other players around him in a second.
43:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But remember, like the touchdown to Harold Fanon down the sideline, well, if he throws the ball, it gets through the ball in two seconds.
43:21
[SPEAKER_00]: then he's checking it down.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He's checking it down because there's no way Harrel fan that route doesn't develop and he doesn't get wide open down the sideline for that touchdown.
43:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But Shindor Sanders was able to step up, navigate the pocket, take, I think he took like a step to the left, steps up, holds the ball for an extra second ends just enough time to get Harrel fan and wide open and it's a touchdown strike.
43:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So holding the ball, well, the the connotation of that is yes, it's a bad thing.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's what are you doing with the ball when you're holding it?
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So, at 3.3 time to throw, 3.3 seconds, yes.
43:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the longest time to throw over the last two weeks in the NFL.
44:00
[SPEAKER_00]: 2.3.29, just what, what is that eight?
44:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been a long time since my math class.
44:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a thousand of a second, less than maybe less than should or standard correct me if I'm wrong.
44:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys will.
44:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Tyrod Taylor at 3.29, then you got Lamar Jackson.
44:18
[SPEAKER_00]: MVP Lamar Jackson at 3.27, and then Patrick Mahomes, 3.23, Bow Knicks, 3.21.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Brock Perty, 3.07, Jackson Dart, 3.15, Shoulders at 3.3, I get it.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got the highest time to throw, but it's not like he's the only one holding the ball that long to try to make a play.
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the people, the names in this list, they are, they're the guys that aren't just standing in the pocket and biting sacks because they don't know where to go with the ball.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's guys that are holding the ball, navigating the pocket, creating a little separation to try to let things develop to make a play.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not trying to like, just make excuses for Shador and paint all this stuff.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, I'm just trying to give it context.
45:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to give it some context to say, all the stuff you see is not black and white.
45:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of it is gray.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: When you see somebody post on social media that, oh, Shador Sanders is terrible because he has a 3.3 time to throw blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess that means Lamar Jackson's terrible because he's at 3.27.
45:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess Patrick Maholm sucks because he's at 3.23.
45:26
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
45:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about the situations in which they are taking that much time to throw the ball.
45:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he's only been sacked four times over two weeks with that time to throw.
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, only twice in competitive football situations.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm encouraged by that.
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's kind of my underlying theme here.
45:49
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm trying to get at.
45:50
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the positive part of the show today.
45:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm encouraged.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I am encouraged on what I have seen from Shador Sanders' NFL passer rating over the last two weeks combined as a 90.8.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, where does that rank?
46:06
[SPEAKER_00]: A 90.8 is 17th in the NFL.
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You read your best mark right now over the last two weeks.
46:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Jordan Love at 1-11.
46:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, who's a round should or Sanders?
46:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You got Jalen Hertz at a 92.2.
46:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Sam Darnord at a 92.8.
46:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got Joe Burrow and his one start was an 83.7 cam ward.
46:27
[SPEAKER_00]: The number one pick was an 81.1 over the last two weeks.
46:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Shidorah Sanders over the last two weeks has a higher passer rating in those two games than cam ward does.
46:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's be encouraged.
46:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's be encouraged because what we see on the field and I said this is somebody on social media the other day.
46:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They said the numbers are telling us that she doors a bus and I said, I don't give a shit about the numbers.
46:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.
46:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll talk about them, but the other reason I'll even talk about his numbers is because he's passing the main test for me and that's the eye test.
47:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The brown suck, the brown suck, they're three and nine.
47:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We're probably going to be getting a new head coach next year.
47:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We need all new receivers.
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We need all new offensive line.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The only test that matters from here on out the rest of season is the eye test.
47:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Does should door Sanders look like an NFL quarterback?
47:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he look like he can play in this league?
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm telling you, if you're just going to look at numbers, always completion percentages and up with this guy or that guy, we don't have receivers.
47:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We drop passes all the time.
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have good blocking.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have good coaching.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have good scheme.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have anything.
47:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm not going to look at numbers alone to make an assessment on Shador Sanders.
47:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I see with my eyes when I watch him play?
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And he looks good to me.
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He looks good for what he is.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: for his situation right now.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Only two starts in the NFL with no practice hardly with the first team with no priority being given to him to this point until he was named the starter.
48:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he has handled himself well and the thing was to door Sanders.
48:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Any Cleveland quarterback of primarily him you're gonna have to coach up yourself, bud.
48:14
[SPEAKER_00]: that this coaching staff has never developed a quarterback.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They've never even made the right decision the quarterback.
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They picked Dylan Gabriel over you.
48:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They prioritized him.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: They had him slated so far ahead of you.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And in two games, you've already shown way more than he's ever shown, capable of doing.
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to coach yourself should or you're going to have to be in the film.
48:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to be practicing.
48:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to be running your reps. You've got to do it.
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I love about Shador Sanders is I think he's capable of that.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's capable.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what made Baker Mayfield such a good quarterback for Cleveland because you've got to be able to survive and find a way to somehow thrive in a very adverse situation with a coaching staff that sucks, that doesn't help your development, a team that's not good, players around you that aren't great, like you have to have internal fortitude and determination and drive and such strong self confidence.
49:17
[SPEAKER_00]: that you will not be shaken by all this other garbage.
49:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I think Shador Sanders can do and can be for the Brown.
49:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me know what you guys think in the comments, where am I right, where am I wrong?
49:29
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you guys see, wish a door, do you think, you know, we need to see more delingibre or you guys know I'm completely out on that.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think this is it for Kevin Stephanscare?
49:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We doing a coaching search podcast series, come January or are we gonna be doing a wire we keep in this guy?
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: series.
49:46
[SPEAKER_00]: In January, I appreciate you guys tuning in.
49:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you guys.
49:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the best audience in the world.
49:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Best fan base in sports.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said at the top of the show.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you guys had to join the dogs.com.
49:57
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to be part of the dog pack discord episodes live on Thursdays.
50:00
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be previewing the Titans game this week during that session.
50:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we will be live watch party.
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: during the Titan's Browns game on Sunday on YouTube.
50:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you guys tune in during the game and just watch the game with us.
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang out.
50:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first time we've done a watch party since the Sean Watson's first game when he came back from suspension against the Houston Texan.
50:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's gonna be a ton of fun, we're excited to do it, and excited to have you guys join us.
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me know in the comments, all your thoughts and opinions about this.
50:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, if you wanna get your thoughts and opinions on the show, go to join, oh, you know what?
50:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, let's take a quick time out here.
50:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I did have a message.
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I said this, I'm so sorry.
50:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Chris from the website, I wanted to get to your message.
50:46
[SPEAKER_00]: from the website.
50:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, you can go to our website, thedocspodcast.com, leave a voicemail or just write a message, send it in, Chris on the website.
50:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I am so sorry, again, that I hold you to the end for this.
50:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a little carried away with my shit or standard stuff, but he says, what's up, dogs?
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw something and gives me a little promise about next season.
51:03
[SPEAKER_00]: A.B.
51:03
[SPEAKER_00]: is related to the Eagles GM and the way he is turned, the Eagles into a top five team in football, similar to how A.B.
51:10
[SPEAKER_00]: is creating the Browns.
51:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's hard to believe since it's been 2020.
51:14
[SPEAKER_00]: but hear me out.
51:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Now real quick, I don't believe it's the GM because that's how he rose men.
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's Andrew Barry's twin brother.
51:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to look this up on the fly here.
51:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's Andrew Barry's twin brother Adam Barry, who is a former Goldman Sachs executive.
51:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He's now part of the Philadelphia Eagles front office.
51:34
[SPEAKER_00]: He is not their GM.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how he rosemen.
51:37
[SPEAKER_00]: so I just want to make sure we clarify that.
51:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But he says Chris says equals GM boosted their D line to make it hard for a lead quarterback to be successful.
51:46
[SPEAKER_00]: All game based on this season our D line has been number one in a lot of categories.
51:51
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
51:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about that earlier with the loss of the lead callants.
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Two, he says have a dominant running back room.
51:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The Eagles has say quann Parkley.
51:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Quenchon Judkins and Sanders.
52:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing you mean Raheem Sanders, because the Shador Sanders is a quarterback.
52:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm guessing you mean Raheem, and I would scratch that name out since he ain't not play and for the Browns at all and say Dylan Samson.
52:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Number three says draft a quarterback who was successful in college and people didn't think he will be good enough for the NFL.
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Jalen Hertz was the second round pick lost his job in college to Tua.
52:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We drafted Shador Sanders and Dylan Gabriel.
52:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
52:31
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
52:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to draw that parallel between hurts being doubted in the NFL after, you know, showing some decent things in college.
52:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
52:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see that.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Number four draft weapons for their young quarterback and bolster the offensive line.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Based on how the Eagles have done it and been successful, we are on a very similar path.
52:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Just need to see what happens this next off season.
52:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine you mean that we are currently in the draft, weapons, and bolster, the online phase of this whole plan.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, this was a long message, but this season is cooked.
53:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to be optimistic for next year and years to come with my boy.
53:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Should I see a quarter of a pack of dogs?
53:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Wolf Wolf, thanks Chris, appreciate the message, yeah.
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, there are a lot of things the Browns do that are that is emulating of the Eagles obviously because Andrew Barry came from there his twin brother works there like I get it like then and the Eagles are a good team to emulate yourselves after because they do things very well the way they they handle the cap.
53:29
[SPEAKER_00]: way they do player contracts and things it's it's browns and and equals that that do it the way they do it and I think it's successful for the most part the problem is the way the brown it's similar the way they they handle the cat the problem is the browns
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: do it with players who probably aren't very deserving of those contracts sometimes sometimes they are sometimes they do it the right players you know they extend a grant delpit he comes out and has a parole season and things like that sometimes they do it to Sean Watson and then he never plays for your team and when he does he sucks so yeah I just I feel like the Eagles don't make those mistakes so that's where we need to get better but
54:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, appreciate the message.
54:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Claude, appreciate the voicemail earlier.
54:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody else, we will see you on Thursday at 5 p.m. Eastern in the discord live.
54:18
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a dog pack member, if you are not a dog pack member or not yet a dog pack member, I know you guys are thinking about it.
54:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys want to check it out.
54:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's $25 a month, even.
54:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Jump in, see what it's like.
54:27
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't like it after a month or so, how you can cancel, it's okay, no harm to foul.
54:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We still love all you guys, but anyway, that episode will be released Thursday evening.
54:36
[SPEAKER_00]: To preview the Titan's game for which we will be live for the entirety of that contest on Sunday.
54:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So tune in, we got big things coming this week.
54:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Five games left for the Browns.
54:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang with us.
54:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got this evaluation of Shoulder Sanders and the sack record to monitor for Miles Garrett.
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: There are good things still to watch for the Browns
54:56
[SPEAKER_00]: and we might be on Coach DeFanci's final month.
55:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Hit the Browns.
55:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see how it goes.
55:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate you guys.
55:03
[SPEAKER_00]: See you Thursday.
55:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Go Browns.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Dogs Podcast.
55:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Twitter at The Dogs Podcast.
55:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Get your thoughts on the show at The Dogs Podcast.
55:38
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode is sponsored by Butcher Box for Pets.
55:41
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56:54
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