Latest / Best of Business / Jenee Tibshraeny: NZ Herald Wellington business editor on Uber fighting back against 2022 employment ruling

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Jenee Tibshraeny: NZ Herald Wellington business editor on Uber fighting back against 2022 employment ruling · Best of Business

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  Speaker 2: Uber's in the Supreme Court this week fighting a twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty two ruling. This ruling classified four drivers as employees.
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  Speaker 2: The company reckons drivers have too much freedom to be
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  Speaker 2: treated as employees and should not receive leave and kei
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  Speaker 2: we Saver contributions, among other things. Jane tips Trainee is
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  Speaker 2: The Herald's Wellington Business editor and is with us tonight. Hi, Jane, Evening, Ryan.
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  Speaker 2: So the unions presented their evidence this morning. What do
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  Speaker 2: they argue?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: The unions say that these drivers definitely are employees. They
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  Speaker 3: say that the level of control that Uber has over
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  Speaker 3: the way they go about making their income is so restrictive.
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  Speaker 3: They call it a sort of relentless and intensive. They
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  Speaker 3: say it's so intense that there is no way that
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  Speaker 3: these drivers are in fact contractors. So, you know, the
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  Speaker 3: lawyers for the unions ran through a number of things.
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  Speaker 3: They sort of picked apart the contracts that drivers you know,
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  Speaker 3: sign with Uber, saying that the drivers have basically no
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  Speaker 3: power in these so these contracts are non negotiable and
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  Speaker 3: Uber can change the terms and conditions as it wishes,
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  Speaker 3: and the drivers kind of have no choice but to
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  Speaker 3: agree to these.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So they basically say they had no choice but
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  Speaker 2: to accept when Uber cut their fares.
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  Speaker 3: That's right. So one of the examples that the lawyer
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  Speaker 3: used was dating back a few years now, but he said,
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  Speaker 3: you know that Uber changed the fares so that the
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  Speaker 3: drivers received less income and also changed the way that
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  Speaker 3: the fares were calculated, and they just had to sort
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  Speaker 3: of suck it up and deal with it. So one
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  Speaker 3: of the things that's been debated in court is the
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  Speaker 3: level of control that Uber had. Another thing that's been
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  Speaker 3: debated is just how related Uber is to the business.
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  Speaker 3: So Uber makes the case it says, well, actually, we're
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  Speaker 3: not that involved. We just provide the platform and the
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  Speaker 3: real agreement is between the driver and the passenger. But
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  Speaker 3: the unions say that's not right. Uber plays a big
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  Speaker 3: role because Uber sets the fair, then Uber collects the fare,
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  Speaker 3: and then you know, gives the driver their cut from there.
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  Speaker 3: And Uber controls things like the sorts of information it
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  Speaker 3: gives the drivers. It penalizes the drivers if they don't
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  Speaker 3: get good ratings. The unions went so fast to say
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  Speaker 3: that Uber actually, you know, penalizes the drivers if they
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  Speaker 3: do something wrong when they're not even driving. So the unions,
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  Speaker 3: the judges just sitting in court for a bit of
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  Speaker 3: the time. The judges seem quite receptive to the union's argument.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, Uber also said, well, our drivers want this,
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  Speaker 3: Like they've surveyed the drivers. They love the flexible they
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  Speaker 3: can apparently apparently they love the flexibility they can choose
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  Speaker 3: when they work. And you know, Uber says they agree
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  Speaker 3: to this contract, no one forces them to sign it.
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  Speaker 3: So it's a tough call.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, what has Uber's defense been saying.
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  Speaker 3: Well, basically that the flexibility is such that it's that
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  Speaker 3: you can't possibly call the driver's employees. Now, Uber has
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  Speaker 3: been fighting this battle all around the world, and it
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  Speaker 3: says that the sort of contractor model is, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's central to the way it operates. So the fact
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  Speaker 3: it's taken it to the Supreme Court, you know, shows
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  Speaker 3: how significant this is for Uber. A thing Ryan that's
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  Speaker 3: happening here in the background is that the government is
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  Speaker 3: actually in the process of changing the law. So it's
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  Speaker 3: a bit more prescriptive on you know, what exactly constitutes
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  Speaker 3: being a contractor versus an employee. So the effect of
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  Speaker 3: this case could be significant for other people in the
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  Speaker 3: goog economy, but perhaps the the salience of it might
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  Speaker 3: not be as great because the government is actually changing
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  Speaker 3: the law to provide some clarity in the space.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating case. We'll keep watching that. It's still going.
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  Speaker 2: Is it presumably in the Supreme Court there, Jane.
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  Speaker 3: I think it wrapped up today. It will set down
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  Speaker 3: for two days, so I guess it'll take the judges
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  Speaker 3: some time to deliberate. But it'll be interesting to see
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  Speaker 3: whether the outcome is announced before the law has.
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  Speaker 2: Changed or not.
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  Speaker 3: So it's quite a bit there for the lawyers to digest.
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  Speaker 2: I think absolutely, and one might sort of null and
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  Speaker 2: void the other anyway, Jenny, appreciate your time. Jenne to
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  Speaker 2: trainee and the New Zealand Herald, Wellington Business Editor.
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