Latest / Skin Anarchy / Tom Allison, Co-Founder of CeraVe

Transcript

Tom Allison, Co-Founder of CeraVe · Skin Anarchy

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: With Bonnet voice API, you can provide the call experience your customers expect any from call analytics and virtual assistants to automatic speech recognition and exit speech in multiple languages.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Your customer service team can help more people in more places.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And with in that voice, your customers can easily contact you the moment they have a question.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take your calls to the next level with Vontage Voice API.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Learn more at Vontage.com.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is Ekta, and wow, do I have a guest today?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am super excited for this interview.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've been truly, truly looking forward to it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is by far one of the best brands I think um any dermatologist can recommend that I can recommend.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So um without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the co-founder of Everyone's Beloved brand, Sarah V, Tom Allison.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Tom, I'm so, so honored that you even said yes to coming on the show.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much, Ecta, and thank you so much for your interest.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I'm equally excited and congratulations on all your success as well.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very much um excited to learn from you and to learn about the brand's journey and just how everything came to be.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really where I want to start is um kind of having you walk us down memory lane and just uh just tell us where it all began, really.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, absolutely.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the connected dots for the audience.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I like to say is uh first and foremost, I have a going-on 20-plus year career in dermatology pharmaceutical product development from an RX as well as an over-the-counter standpoint.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Although obviously, with the success of Cereby, I spent the majority of my time in the over-the-counter space.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: However, I think it'll connect the dots for the audience as to kind of how we started this brand and why it's uh I think so successful today.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, to take you back to you know memory lane and to give you the e True Hollywood story, if you will, the Saraby brand, the Saraby brand was started in 2004, really brand ideation in 2004, and was part of a pharmaceutical company.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So this company was based in Fort Worth, Texas.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was a small derm-focused pharma company called Health Point Dermatology, of which we changed the name to Coreia Laboratories, C-O-R-I-A.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So you might see some Corea labels.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's when, you know, you can see some Cerebi labels before we change it to the modern look it is today.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can find some labeling out there online if you do a Google search, and that's where Coreia comes to play.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Coreia Laboratories, as I mentioned, was a pharmaceutical company that developed prescription topical medications for a variety of diseases, diseases like rosacea, atopic dermatitis, psoriasis, some of these other uh, you know, mostly well-known dermatology uh, you know, patients and and and visits for patients.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, one of the reasons why we started this RV brand was that any good pharmaceutical company will have what we call a diversified portfolio.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the problem with RX medications when it comes to trying to build a business is you're only as good as your patent life says it is.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because we know when a drug goes off patent, you get basically generic intrusion and you lose that revenue stream.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the business cases for starting the Cerebi business was uh the need to diversify the portfolio.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually had a dermatologist once explain to me, and I think it's a really good analogy for the audience to understand how dermatologists think about cleansers and moisturizers.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, think about a cardiologist and how a cardiologist will use diet and exercise to get a patient better.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same thing for dermatologists.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: They use cleansers and moisturizers, just like a cardiologist will use diet and exercise.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're not controlling the cleansing the cleansing environment correctly and the subsequent follow-up with moisturization, you're really asking that prescription medication to work over time.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, in short, start it as part of a pharmaceutical company to diversify our portfolio and build kind of this cleanse, treat, and moisturize regimen that dermatologists uh you know use even today.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I really like that analogy, actually.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it applies to almost every field in medicine because you don't want, you know, with patients for us, like they tell us, you know, your first line therapy is always getting the patient to baseline.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what is baseline, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it really does make sense.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I really, you know, I I want to actually um my first question really is for you that your products, I mean, CeraVee, when I think of CeraVee and and the way it's used and who uses it and how the consumers have reacted um so positively to the brand, it makes me think of it as almost like a a benchmark, you know, in the skincare space.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to really um, you know, I want to go down that road of like um how the idea of the products came to be in terms of like, you know, the formulations, because I know they're very versatile in who can use them and you know how often they can be used.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to kind of walk us down that path as well.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for that compliment, you know, regarding Cerebi as a benchmark for the industry.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's uh we're quite proud of what we developed.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you, I think our secret development sauce has always been the fact that the brand has been developed with dermatologists from day one.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm talking even before we ever had formulations, our first formulations, which was a hydrating cleanser, moisturizing cream, and moisturizing lotion.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: We worked with dermatologists to figure out if we're gonna build a brand from scratch, we thought it would make just most sense to get the input of those that know skin the best, the dermatologists, and kind of build this with them uh from the ground up.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And with that said, as we talk about the technologies and perhaps why you know we've been able to not only stay relevant but continue to wear share and you know, win share and market, continue to have brand love and increasing you know our business year over year, it's because of the performance of the product.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: And and I can honestly say, Acty, that ties back to our relationship with dermatology.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a great example of that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: The name Cera V actually stands for two important technologies.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: The C E R A is the you know, the Sarah stands for ceramides, which uh, you know, I'm sure you've covered on your show before with other guests or know yourself.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of your audience are probably getting familiar with how important ceramides are.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: But the dermatologists are the ones that pointed us to using this ingredient in the first place.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, before CeraV came on the mass market, you couldn't find ceramides in skincare.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's basically everyone's what I'll call varsity version of their moisturizer.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, their ultra form of name XYZ brand will now include ceramides to pay attention to the skin barrier.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we can really attribute this idea of using ceramides as a base which is consistent across the entire line to our dermatologist partners who understood the science behind them, you know, to kind of go a little bit into what ceramides and how they matter and why we think it's an important foundation to our skincare brand.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you think about your skin cells as being bricks stacked up on top of each other, you know, when it's working well, when you have healthy skin, glowy skin, your your bricks are stacked neatly together in a very uniform way with what we call the lipid bilayer, a lipid matrix.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that would be basically the mortar that would hold that brick so that brick wall together.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, 50% of that mortar that holds your skin cells together, that protects your skin cells, keeps them healthy longer, that's comprised of ceramides.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, what the dermatologist said is listen, there's a few ways about going developing skincare.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: One, you could do a do-no-harm approach, and there's a lot of brands that animate on that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or you could do uh an approach of which is, you know, the greasier the better, right?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: We know that the greasier or heavier occlusive substances really occlude the skin to prevent that transebolerma water loss, to prevent uh, you know, to prevent bad things from going into your skin is another approach.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: What the dermatologist asked us to do is animate with ceramides to maybe address why there's an issue in the first place.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, because ceramides are actually, you know, it it for me it's very interesting that you know ceramides are really the hallmark here for the brand because you know, a lot of people don't talk about this either, is that there's a most of the skin conditions that we hear about are really because of deficiencies in ceramides as well.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, it's very, very interesting that you're bringing up this idea.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And from a science perspective, I think it's the most intuitive thing I've seen a brand do is to create something with something that's so essential for the skin barrier, you know, and it's it's really, really interesting how you came to this decision.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that on your website you list ceramides one, three, and six, two are the ones you use.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to know how you came to that.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because of the literature out there, or is it was it just the dermatologists doing their own research, or how did that get narrowed down?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a great question, Mecta.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually both.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot of great studies dating back to the 90s, and what they were doing, Nectar, was they're biopsying healthy skin versus diseased skin.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: So common skin conditions like eczema, atopic dermatitis, acne, and measuring what was in those conditions that wasn't in healthy skin, and what was in healthy skin that's not in those conditions.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And what happened was they're started to really animate and look at the skin barrier and the structure and function of the way skin properly works, and we're finding a deficiency in ceramides, but not just any ceramides.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Ceramides one, three, and six were coming up across a lot of different diseases.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the literature pointed it to us.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of the literature is the physicians that we can we can even continue to work with today really looked at that science as well and really pointed us down the right path to say, listen, it it's not just about including any ceramides, but you need to include the right one with or known to be deficients through you know the normal inflammatory process of the skin trying to heal itself.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, aside from the diseases that I talked about, the science is now really pointing to inflammation in the skin causes barrier degradation.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if you peel that onion back one level further, it's really a lot of it is comprised of ceramide loss as well as cholesterol-free fatty acids.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that's a really excellent point.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And also, like, you know, um, I really want to go back to that.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I the first thing you had said a minute ago was that, you know, a lot of companies make their whole their big, you know, nighttime cream, you know, if their ceramide cream.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's you're absolutely right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes this like almost overpriced, you know, just sensationalized idea of like, okay, this is the super cream, you know, but it's like ceramides are so essential, like you pointed out, and you know, like the brand stands for that it just makes me wonder like, you know, how why would why are you putting that message out there?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's also leading to people not learning about um, you know, just the essential nature of these molecules in our skin.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that's why I think for me, like when I look at the brand and I look at Cereb's like just overall role in this industry, I do that's why I say it's it's it's a benchmark.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's really it's raised the bar to a level because it's forcing consumers to understand what is the skin and what is the skin barrier made up of.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the kind of brands that for me, you know, as a consumer and as a medical professional, that I can get behind because you're putting your it's no fluff.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really what I'm trying to say.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's no fluff.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I I wanna, you know, that I want to actually move on to the second component.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know you had said the the first part of the name, but the VE, can you explain that to us?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what that's I would love to.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it's interesting.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And this will really bring us back to pharmaceutical company that started this brand.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because of pharmaceuticals' discipline, pharmaceutical companies exist that not only identify those ingredients that are used to treat the issue, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And ceramized or what we talked about already, but you need to strategically figure out how to get those ingredients to where they need to go to work.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where VE comes into play.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: So the VE stands for something called multivesicular emulsion.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And what this is, is the ability to control release of actives over time.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually a technology that was birthed out of the launch of a prescription medication called salic.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you're very familiar with ingredients like salicylic acid and ammonium lactate.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: These are very potent, very effective keratolytic desmolytics that can be used to smooth out skin, to get some rid of some of those patchy, you know, scaly uh sections of your elbows and knees, keratosis polaris, some of these other ingredients that SALX or diseases that SALLX was used for.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: One of the issues of the collateral damages with keratolytics is irritation.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: They work so well that people then start to build a tolerability issue, which then they jump off of medication, and then uh you know the doctors and the patients back to square one, and they're not really getting that clinical outcome that they desire.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we developed this uh this MVE technology to help control the disbursement of those actives over time, which led to really efficient efficacy, but also very, very low tolerability, even with a 6% salic cell salicylic acid combination and ammonia octate, which normally would irritate skin.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: You could even use salex on open fissures, open wounds with no irritation.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, as we're taking you back to 2004, developing this range, the other thing that the dermatologist said, because they were so familiar with the MBE technology, is you got to use MBE.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And what MVE does is basically produces this concentric layers, almost think about it as an onion, where that outer layer gets dispersed on the second, on the third, then the fourth, and it's really an efficient distribution of actives and ingredients.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: I want to react to something also you mentioned, which is given that example of kind of uh how ceramides are now used and that really expensive night cream, they tend to be associated with being very expensive, etc.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the fact, it's the truth.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's one of the reasons why I think it's not a mass commodity ingredient, like let's say hyalonic acid or salicylic acid is, is because of the cost.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's that's what we have entered into our contract with dermatologists, though.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are utilizing these ingredients in the right clinical percentages, developing them into the skin or delivering them into the skin with a technology like MVE, yet still offering a pound jar of moisturizing cream for around 15 bucks.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because when we were animating, developing this product line with dermatologists, that came crystal clear from them.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, we paint, we treat the whole patient.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: These diseases tend to be chronic.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: It does us no good giving two ounces of a moisturizing product when they need to use it all over their, you know, their arms, legs, uh, trunk, et cetera, for a lot of the conditions that we have built uh the back and the reputation of this brand on.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean, I think that's that's something that I really, you know, you answered really my question.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, uh, you know, led into it is that you're doing something that is so it's so technology driven, it's so technology forward and science forward, and very much on the cutting edge of um skin health.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really cheap, you know, if you compare it to any other skin line in the sense that it's it's good quality, it's it's great science, and it's available to everybody.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And how the heck did you do that?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like how did you how did you pull that off?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really amazing.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, now we're you know, you can start enjoying economies of scale and that thing as you get larger, but it was really, I could say one of the things you could probably point to the success of the brand, it was owned by the right people at the right time.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when we started the brand, didn't have those economies of scale, or you know, you could say, as I know a lot of your business to business people are listening to this, you know, uh, and startups and people thinking about getting into the skincare game, you know, as part of your audience, you know, margin was an issue at first.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: But when we were building this as part of a pharmaceutical company, we needed to take the you know the entire patient into consideration, realizing that people that go see a dermatologist usually spend$50 to$75 on a co-paid before they even see the doctor.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: The medications can be expensive.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, these are conditions that are chronic.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's one of the things when we develop the range uh that we we stayed true to.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, and with that said, you know, very happy that since L'Oreal has acquired Cera V since 2017, is they also believe in that mission.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: And um, it helps us deliver what what our purpose, our brand purpose is, which is to deliver therapeutic skincare for all.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we try to make it as accessible as possible.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you could probably point to the fact that our packaging tends to be a little bit more on the simpler side.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're developing products, you really have to make a few choices.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and one of the other big expenditures can tends to be packaging.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh what Cera V chooses to do is is like invest all in the juice versus the package, you know.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I mean I love to do it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the packaging, I get you.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's very like, you know, um, it does remind you of the doctor's office.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It does remind you of, you know, a but I mean, I think the idea here is that if you have a skin condition or you have a skin concern, I mean, you know, you need to find the product that's gonna work for you.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I actually appreciate that about Cera V is that the packaging actually kind of complements, you know, what the brand's all about, which is the no fluff.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what you need.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is these are the ingredients you need to, you know, help your skin.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, this that's what you're getting.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, sometimes with skincare brands, I often get um, you know, very frustrated.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like my medical side of my brain gets very frustrated because I'm like, okay, cool, you've got the you know, 15 different gems on it, but it's like, you know, what does it do?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't understand what the actual function is.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's definitely this double-sidedness to that, you know, in terms of like the looks of products and why consumers are buying it and all that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean, I think I think of it as a good thing.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And also going back to this conversation I had about, you know, what clean brands mean or what good brands are.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was talking on this panel the other week, and I was trying to remind people that, you know, a good brand is a brand that you're gonna use, like the product from the beginning to the end.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're doing that, that's all that matters.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that at the end of the day, that tells you more about anything than than any kind of packaging or label or whatever.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean, I think that's really well said.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and as we've been building this through the years, I mean, that is definitely what we used as our own internal scorecard, which was not so much getting the first purchase, but what was a repeat purchase rate, you know.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and pretty happy to say within the kind of that mass world, we we are we are definitely at the top of the charts there.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also a reason why, you know, a company like I think L'Oreal acquired it, which was they're looking at this brand in 2017 that was several hundred million dollars in gross sales at the time with very little awareness, you know, within the US population.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: So they looked at this opportunity.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, L'Oreal being fantastic marketers, great storytellers, great brand builders, and thought, you know, not only in the US as a big brand, but we could make it bigger and continue to do the things that we do, but also globally it was nowhere to be found.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: So um it's been a really nice, uh, a nice complement to the Sereby success.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: And going back to something I said before, kind of taking you back to the, you know, the start of the company, very humble beginnings as part of a pharmaceutical company.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's no doubt that the success of the brand also is that it was owned by the right people at the right time of its life cycle.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I I think that that's just good business, you know.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, that's very difficult for many entrepreneurs to really kind of like I guess get to that point is is figuring out, you know, what the best business strategy is.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I often see, like, you know, from the business side, I see a lot of people that are just overpricing their stuff or they're just not, you know, thinking long term.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me wonder is like, you know, what what are you really trying to achieve like monetarily for your brand?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what are you really trying to, you know, get out of this whole experience, like in terms of as an entrepreneur, as a businessman or a businesswoman.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, yeah, it's very interesting that, you know, the journey has been the way it has been for Servi.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but I do want to I want to get back to the science a little bit because I want to mention this, and I think a lot of people don't really focus on this a lot with the brand, or at least I don't see it, you know, on the social media, is that this uh ceramide component is actually also that pH balancing system, too.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So people talk about skin pH, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're always like, well, you gotta have products that are good for the skin pH.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, what is good skin pH?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's obviously gonna be what the skin's made up of.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's again, going back to your point about ceramides, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, I feel like this conversation really needs to be like, I what I'm trying to say is like, you know, the the products are made to really just, I guess, for lack of a better term, mimic.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's already there, you know?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that I I I I don't see a lot of brands really focusing on is just kind of, you know, do do what is already there naturally in your skin.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, stop trying to like disrupt that because that's gonna cause problems.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: So no, I think I think it's well said.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, our ceramides are are what we call skin identical physiological lipids, and what we try to do in our formulation design is is kind of mimic the way your skin naturally reacts or is built.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, as I said before, kind of, you know, when when you have dryness in your skin, as we'll give you an example, and we talked about that brick wall.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'll give you another another analogy that I think is easy to digest for the audience.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like to say that uh, you know, your skin are like shower tiles.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: When you have a leak in your shower, the leak is not happening through the actual tiles themselves.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do you need to do?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: You need to re-grout your wall, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Your tile in order to prevent that from uh leaking through the shower.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the same principle.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: When you have dry skin, you're not losing moisture from the skin cells themselves.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: They'll shrink because they're dehydrated, but you're actually losing the water between the cracks in your skin.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: And to bring it full circle back to what you're saying before, that is our design is try to mimic what's naturally happening and not to, you know, cause any more issues or more any more um, you know, try to be too fancy beyond uh allowing yourself, you know, your skin to heal itself as well, you know, and it will if you if you calm the inflammation down, prevent bad stuff from getting in, you can get a great clinical result from your skin just kind of doing what it needs to do to repair.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I totally agree.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know that's that's really the point here.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I want to actually ask you, Tom, because I I am very, very curious.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you know, the skincare industry, as you know, probably much better than I do, it's it's always evolving, it's always churning out new products and new ideas, and you know, there's this new trend always coming out, I feel like, you know, and um how does the brand react to that overall?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that Cera V is pretty solid, you know, in your range, and you guys have really something for everybody, I feel like.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I'm just curious from you know, the RD side, like when you see, you know, hey, a new trend is popping up where everyone's using, you know, uh more assets or more whatever, like how do how is the pro what is the process like on the RD side for reality?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, first of all, we certainly listen to our patients and our consumers, you know, as to what they'd like to see from the brand, what uh, you know, what ingredients are relevant within the marketplace.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: We definitely look into that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: However, what I'll say is our muse is the dermatologist.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I we know who these people are.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say dermatologists, I'm talking about the people that actually teach other dermatologists.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: They're the ones that actually do the clinical research and studies of any medication that goes for the FDA.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: So if we're animating, for example, an acne, these are the varsity of acne dermatologists that we work with to make sure that we are building the very best option uh you know from the ground up with their input.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, what the dermatologist does a really good job for us, though, is building synergy of ingredients.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if there is something that uh a dermatologist would like to animate on, we can build something together.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if it's say, let's say we we launched this acne foaming cream cleanser, it's a 4% benzyl peroxide.
• 25:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Benzyl peroxide's been around for years, a very effective medication in a cleanser form, typically, you know, is very effective as well to prep that skin before Rx medication to follow.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we work the dermatologist to use other ingredients, you know, ceramizer we talked about across the platform, as well as the vehicle.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how much foaming action should it have?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: What are the instructions on how long it should sit in the certain, you know, on the surface of the skin for that BPO to be activated?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, these kind of things we let the dermatologist kind of drive us that way, which is really different.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're not a company that develops something and then asks the dermatologist to fit it in or to retrofit what we've already built.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: We build this thing from scratch with them and to ensure that we get it right.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you, like consistency and performance of product are what breeds what I call reputation and trust.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, what's happened as we've built this thing for the better part of 17 years is now when we launch something, the dermatology community knows that their teachers have already looked at this and have signed off on it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been a nice evolution of how we've built this RV brand with dermatologists.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually why it says under the label develop with dermatologists.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's a huge feature.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: It goes a lot of times unnoticed, but it is part of our logo lockup.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: It means so much.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I'm really I'm I'm glad you pointed that out because I mean, I actually I definitely noticed it though, I will say, you know, as a consumer before long before this interview was planned, it was definitely something I noticed.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's truly, you know, it really goes back to the the thing I said earlier about why the brand is a benchmark.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for me, I have uh immense respect for the fact that you just mentioned that you work with dermatologists who teach the dermatologists.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that because you know, I have grown up in an academia-based, you know, environment my whole life.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been in a lab since I was seven years old.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've you know, I've seen the people who are the professors for the people who become the MDs tomorrow, you know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so these these individuals are really the real experts.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that you are able to say as a brand that no, we work with the the people who are telling them what to, you know, like teaching them what to do in their dermatological.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's huge.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is a huge statement.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, you know, to take it to a different level and completely build upon what you just said.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the people that know the ingredient, it's the people that actually proved the ingredient worked in the first place.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's that's the difference.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what sets you guys apart right there.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had this entire conversation.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think it was a no, it wasn't a conversation, it was a rant on my own.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I went on to my podcast and I was like complaining because I was like, you can't just approach, you know, skin health from this like clinical standpoint.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be more, you know, also research grounded.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly my was my point was, you know, you you can't ignore the work of the people behind, you know, figuring out why things work the way they do.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the real experts.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I really value that that you guys have put so much weight into that, and that is such a building block and like the real DNA of your brand.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you can't really do better than that, you know, when you ask me from a science perspective, it can't really get better than that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I want to actually, I want to move the conversation um into the direction of just like really how you've built up your um reputation in the in the social media space and in the community, because I know that, you know, obviously TikTok and social media has played a big role because every day there's a new video, someone's using some sort of Cerebee product, you know, um, in a routine or they're making a whole routine out of the brand, which is amazing.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how has that really been?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, has the brand had to, you know, have you guys had to push out anything from your end, you know, in terms of like trying to market the brand, or has it just been more natural and the community's just picked up on it?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think both, although I'll point more to the organic piece that's probably what has contributed overwhelmingly to the success of the brand, especially call it last three, four years.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Again, post-L'Oreal acquisition, you know, doing more activity on social media, you know, and I think if you're consuming any of the stuff that we're putting out there today, we're really trying to bring the voice of the dermatologist to the community.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we do this series called Cereby Skin Chats, where we once a month will bring a well-known dermatologist.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of times they're social media savvy, you know, not necessarily those podium uh, you know, physicians that are kind of more the teachers.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll we'll we'll tackle a different subject with them, you know.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it might be um, you know, uh black skin, ethnic skin, challenges that happen, you know, bringing a well-known dermatologist, done a real lot of research in this industry, you know, this side of the, you know, this side of the industry, and and walk them through and let them be the voice and give their, you know, their give that, give the floor to them to teach our audience just what's happening within the skin as one of our, I think, unique platforms.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think CeraVee's also been a brand that's been loved for a long time, and it's been kind of that word of mouth is the way we've grown it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, although we've gone quote unquote viral, right, through TikTok, through really an amazing um uh growth from that standpoint during, especially during COVID and lockdown when when people were were trying to drive more self-treatment and barrier have had a different relationship with their skin barrier, right?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Whether they're wearing masks and started getting irritation or they're using hand sanitizers and stuff, that's those that those activities are very much barrier disruptive.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: So they started seeking solutions, etc.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: We went viral, you know, for a few reasons through that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: However, to backtrack and give an example of word of mouth, how we've been kind of a loved brand you know, under the radar, you know, in channels where we didn't create content, you know, in 2019 and 2020, for example, and skincare at you know, skincare addicts channel on Reddit, we were the number one recommended brand by those, you know, million plus consumers, you know, uh ingredient enthusiasts, you know, entrepreneurs, that kind of thing.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I think a lot of that has pointed to the organic, you know, love that we get just because of the performance and and how we make a difference in people's skin.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I bring you back to TikTok, if you consumed any of that content, it really started with this well-known influencer named Hiram.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: He got uh he he put out there some content of an of a regimen that he really believed in for especially blemished skin or acne, you know, acne-prone skin.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: A few patients followed, a few consumers, a few of his uh brand followers uh, you know, followed that recommendation.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Cera V Cleanser and Moisturizer are part of it, and got great results and decided to, you know, uh uh you know do a duet with him and and and do some posting.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think it was just inspirational.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of kids at home during COVID that had were going through the same issues and were inspired by the results that that uh you know a few of those early uh you know user-generated content uh creators uh put out there on the TikTok platform.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um even pre-COVID though, Tom.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, I mean if if we're being honest, yeah, I I can definitely see how uh COVID had played into it.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I definitely get your point, but I think even pre-COVID, I discovered Cerebi pre-COVID.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me as a consumer, um the the real contenders and the I guess you could say, you know, the the competition for you guys, for me as a consumer, looking at the shelf, you know, and Walgreens was Neutrogena or Clean and Clear.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I personally am not trying to be, you know, to be very transparent, actually.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Clean and clear was a nightmare for me.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: They broke me out.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: That company I remember being a teenager trying it, I it broke me out.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Terrible situation.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So when I first picked up the products, I was, you know, I was looking and I was like, okay, I'm gonna give it a go.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I tried the product and I realized how much the quality is different compared to a lot of the drugstore brands that we see.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a huge for me an eye-opener that this is truly a brand that it's yeah, it's available and the accessibility is off the charts and it's amazing you guys are so accessible, but you're really a very um, I don't know, I mean, I don't know what the name is, luxury brand or you know, a high-end, I don't know.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many different terminologies in marketing, you know.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know the labeling, but my point is it's a very quality-driven brand.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that I think it extends beyond social media, but I can definitely see your point with COVID and it blowing up because of TikTok.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's well said, too.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it certainly was before COVID.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the rise of the skin influencer, the dermatologist in the marketplace trying to build their own social media presence, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: All these things, as as things like Instagram and Snapchat came into our lives, it provided a nice platform for some of these, you know, skin influencers to kind of get in the game.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and if you're a skin influencer non-physician, you know, not having interviewed all of them, but I I think it's pretty safe to say one of the reasons and one of the ways that they develop their content is to listen to dermatologists, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And if dermatologists is recommending therapy, then they then we become part of their recommended list of products and stuff.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you can certainly point to that.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: And like I mentioned before, you know, even the AAD is really trying to encourage dermatologists to get in front of the consumer using social media platforms to dispel myths, to provide skin education out to the consumer.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: So more people are aware of how amazing and how important your skin is.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like to give this analogy, which is, and I think it's really an indictment and something that we all need to do and improve.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: And channels that you have built, like this podcast, are certainly well on its way.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: But if you asked every 10-year-old in the United States why fluoride is used in toothpaste, they'd be able verbatim to say back to you to prevent cavities, right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you asked the same question to the 10-year-old, what does your skin do for you, you'd have you'd get answers all over the map.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it provides an opportunity, I think, for the industry, and we want to be a champion of that on Cera V to really drive a deeper, richer understanding uh of people for their, you know, for their skin.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because if people become more educated on how important your skin is, largest organ, all those other things that we know, um, you know, uh a brand like CeraV will always win because they'll be seeking then the right formulation at the right value, um, you know, in the right format, uh, you know, to keep their skin healthy.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's also maybe the future of what skincare looks like, which I'll say, even in the physician level, is far too reactive.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have a problem, therefore I need to see a solution or an ingredient to more proactive, uh, keeping your healthy, your your skin healthy.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Going back to that TikTok example, I think one of the greatest outcomes of that was you saw teenagers, Gen Z, thinking about multi-step regimen skincare, cleansing based off their skin type, moisturizing to prepare, you know, to repair, restore their moisture barrier, you know, using their words versus skin barrier.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then also probably the best thing they're doing is using SPF skin, you know, skincare as well.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think education's a huge opportunity and uh one that our entire industry, you know, owes uh the US population.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I and that was actually what I was about to lead into, actually, was the education part because I think for your brand, especially, I think the education comes very naturally because again, this I think this really just you know comes full circle because it really goes back to being a transparent brand.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um when it, you know, even with the packaging, even with the, you know, everything, the naming, the packaging, everything has to be transparent because I think that really is the hallmark and the foundation on which true education is built.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, people when they, you know, I the videos I've seen and the social media presence I've seen, a lot of people, you know, that's where they start with is the name of the brand.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll explain, you know, how we talked about it, the ceramides, and you know, they'll start there.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, you know, for me, the the biggest question was what, you know, in terms of the education aspect, what it what are some things that the brand has taken initiative towards, you know, in terms of uh spreading awareness about skin health.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know you guys are already doing a lot, you know, you have a really strong science foundation, but I'm just curious.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's two things.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I already talked about this Cereby skin chat and kind of gave like the black skin example, you know.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love we get amazing letters from consumers because we're let's you know, let's say, you know, black skin is different than Caucasian skin, has different challenges like post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, keloids, something called sodium, you know, pseudopoliculitis barbay, which is those razor bumps.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: If we're able to bring a dermatologist on our platform to walk the audience through how to mitigate some of those challenges and take the time to explain, you know, they're on our channel for 30 minutes on an Instagram live.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're able to give really good sound advice.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens is we get these great testimonials, these amazing letters of people that are following that content, because we're providing that subject matter expert.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we've done topics like atopic dermatitis, topics like acne, uh, you know, fungal acne, another thing that's a misconception out there, etc.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been a great platform.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Something else we're really excited about is um uh a product, uh, a campaign called Sun Heroes.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So this came out of a dermatologist from Chicago, Dr.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Amy Brodsky, who developed this idea.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And what it is, it's going to be a curriculum for dermatologists to be able to go into middle schools and teach middle school students about the importance of sunscreens, skin cancer, and SPF use.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really trying to think and kind of talk the talk, you know, um uh or walk the talk of what we're talking about to try to drive these programs that can really make a difference uh from an educational standpoint for for you know the consumers out there.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope it turns into a more successful version of the DARE program, except for skin health.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're yeah, that would be great to see.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that's brilliant.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's absolutely brilliant.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think you gotta catch kids early because that's when they're the most receptive.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, for especially with skin health, you know, it's truly something that everyone needs to know about, especially with SPF, especially with protecting ourselves.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, those are things that I think should be taught on even the most rudimentary level of education, you know, in terms of I mean, I have a whole different perspective about where I think medicine should start being, you know, start being taught in terms of uh education.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you're doing that.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really, really great um next step for the industry.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I really urge all the brands listening or founders listening, you know, to kind of, you know, take this forward.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a great idea.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, education, there's never enough of it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, you know, with this podcast, that's really the foundation on which I started the podcast was to hopefully educate somebody, you know, um listening about something.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I really like that.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that your brand is is focused on that.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, and just in closing, you know, I want to ask you though, because um there are a lot of people out there that, you know, they want to create a brand that is so beloved and so trusted, right?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that trust with a consumer, I think, is one of the hardest things for any entrepreneur to achieve.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to give some advice if you can offer some advice, because um I think that's something that we can all work on.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, how how has that journey been for you, you know, just being with Sarah V and building that trust with your consumers?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's a really fair question and and to also build upon what you just said before, which acted like the platform that you're developed through Skincare Anarchy is great.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and I appreciate also the audience that you're giving the ability to also teach those that are following you know the content uh about skin.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, for those entrepreneurs out there, I want to remind everybody that Cera V came from very, very humble beginnings.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: So to give you an idea of million-dollar sales first year, three items.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, not you know, three SKUs, three three formulas with just one uh one size.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: So uh a 12-ounce moisturizing lotion, a 16-ounce moisturizing tub jar of cream, and a 12-ounce hydrating cleanser.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Those three individual items is how Cera V launched, and we stayed with those three formulas, just those three formulas.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I repeat, just three formulas for five years.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Consistency and product performance breeds reputation and trust.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think the mistake a lot of people make is they run out way too quickly.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: They try to be one thing for, you know, one brand for all different types of issues that the skin could face, launch right away with 25 different varieties of whatever.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And uh CeraV was built, you know, humble beginnings, three formulas, bottom shelf of your local drugstore, and uh built this thing to what it is today, which is like a top five, I think, skincare brand in the world.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I definitely think so as well.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's that's great advice, though, Tom.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for that.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, I hope you really paid heed because that's a huge point.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And to really get that formula right and to really, you know, make sure what you're putting out there is is is good.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a huge, huge point.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really thankful to you, and I'm really thankful to your uh to your whole team for um allowing this to happen.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've been just so humbled and honored to to host you and the brand.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for coming on to the show.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for your interest and and for the audience.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we really appreciate everyone's uh support and brand love.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening out there, I'm gonna tag everything in the post.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if you haven't already, I'm sure all of you have, go check out Sarah V.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, get some fun stuff for the holidays for your friends who know nothing about skin health.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of the brands that you can gift very easily, and it's gonna be, you know, most likely a good choice uh for everyone.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: So go check it out.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Leave us some comments, some feedback.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions for Tom's team, leave them in the comment section.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'll definitely uh pass them along.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you again, Tom, and happy holidays.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Decta.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Be well.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.