Latest / Beyond the Ribbon Cut / Ep. 8 - Justin Groenert (Evansville Regional Economic Partnership)
Transcript
- speaker-0: If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. The one job that we have as chambers is to create the environment that allows our businesses to be successful. And ribbon cuttings are great and events are great and networking is great, but if we're not helping set the stage at a policy level, we're not really doing our jobs. I think to the best of our ability. Hi. speaker-1: I'm Ted, and I build software for Chambers of Commerce. For the past decade, chamber tools were all built the same way. One clunky system for every chamber. But if I've learned one thing, it's that no two chambers are alike. This speaker-0: That's why on this speaker-1: show we go beyond the ribbon cut with top chamber leaders to share the unique programs, processes, and what makes their chamber work. And to give you new ideas you can take back to your chamber. This is Beyond the Ribbon Cut. Welcome back to Beyond the Ribbon Cut, the podcast for chamber leaders. I'm your host, Ted Wind from Diagonal for Chambers. And my guest today is Justin Grainer, Chief Strategy Officer of the Evansville Regional Economic Partnership in Indiana. Justin, thank you so much for coming on the show today. speaker-0: Pleasure, thanks for having me. speaker-1: We're excited to kick it off here. Now, to get started, I'd love if you could give our listeners at home a little bit of the lay of the land. What is the Evansville Regional Economic Partnership? And what does kind of the business community in southwest Indiana look like? speaker-0: Sure. We are a four county regional economic development entity and a two-county chamber of commerce. Five years ago, three legacy organizations here in Evansville and Southwest Indiana merged into a bigger, sort of more focused organization. So we are the regional economic development entity for Gibson, Posey, Warwick, and Vandenberg counties. We are the local economic development entity, so the LEDO for Vandenbergen Posey, and we are the Chamber of Commerce for Vandenbergen Posey. So we have multiple facets to what we do. It is a a lot of territory to cover, but and we also have our our sports commission as well. So they bring in high profile NCAA sporting events. We had the Central Zones US swimming tournament three weeks ago here where there were seven hundred swimmers at our natatorium. So we are in the sports game as well, which is a lot of fun, especially come March when we host the OVC tournament for the men and the women. So we punched the first tickets into the big dance here in Evansville, which is a lot of fun. So you know, from a business community perspective, we are the third biggest city in the state. We are a tri-state region with northwest Kentucky and southeast Illinois, kind of all merging together. We have a really good relationship. obviously with our friends in Kentucky. We don't really do as much with with Illinois from our from our regional, you know, focus. But that's not to say that we have any issues with with our friends in Illinois. We just don't have a lot of of interactions there. But again, we're a heavy manufacturing state of a heavy manufacturing region. you go back to World War Two, we supplied most of the ammunition and the LST boats and the P forty seven bombers. So we are a fairly large manufacturing region. Obviously we have two very large hospital systems. We have three colleges and universities here, the University of Southern Indiana, the University of Evansville, and Ivy Tech Community College. So we have a very nice higher ed footprint as well. So it's a it's a dynamic community collaboration really is everything here. And we'll talk more about that, I'm sure, as we we get this conversation going. speaker-1: Definitely, definitely. And, you know, as you mentioned, a lot of those legacy organizations coming together, that also means kind of increased member expectations too. Could you share a little bit more of kind of what members expect from an organization that's both a chamber but also an economic development? speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, I think it's driving, it's building a workforce that stays. It's having a dynamic community that recruits dynamic people here and keeps them here. It's finding those quality of place projects that again encourage people to live, work, and play here. And I think it's one of the things that we do really well. The chamber, you know, has won national chamber of the year in twenty sixteen, so ten years ago. So we have always sort of been on the front of really exciting stuff. And I think our members appreciate that. I know our board meetings rarely stick to an hour because there's just so much we're trying to to fit in. So I I think, yeah, it does, it certainly makes us all bring our A game. But I think it also instead of having board members and three different staffs, you know, running. Around three organizations trying to collaborate. Now we're all on the same roof and we're all kind of going the same way. So I think it's been a real asset to the community. I think the three organizations were successful in what they did, but you know, COVID and a lot of the the world that we've sort of shifted into has sort of laid the reality out that we would work better together. And I think that's proven to be right. So I mean, like any merger, it's it's it's always bumpy and interesting. And You know, I I came in kind of two years into the merger, but again, I knew most of the players from my previous stent at the Southwest Indina Chamber. So, you know, it was like coming home, but the walk on the elevator was a little different. It took me about six weeks to take the left off the elevator and not the right to my old office. speaker-1: I love that 100%. And I mean, one of the reasons why I'm so excited to have you on today's episode is we really want to talk about advocacy work. One thing that's so incredible about your chamber is you know, just take a look on your website. There's a whole tab dedicated to all the different ad advocacy programs that you guys are doing. We're going to be jumping into that shortly. But before that, I'd love if we could share a little bit more about. your background, right? So you are pretty involved in government, the political scene before kind of crossing over into chamber work. Could you share a little bit more about that road and maybe what it taught you about kind of being a chamber leader? speaker-0: Absolutely. So I I went to college at Western Kentucky University, thought I was gonna be a journalist. I made it through my first class period of my first journalism class and was like, nope, this isn't gonna be it. And so I got into political science and and I worked for the football team. So, you know, fast forward a couple of years, you're about to graduate. And I'm like, am I gonna do the football thing and do laundry for the rest of my life? Or am I gonna go into politics and and go down the the public service route? Fortunately enough, I ended up going down the route of of public service and was fortunate enough to get a couple of really cool internships with Ron Lewis, who is the congressman for Kentucky Second, the summer after I graduated in his district office. And it's amazing what happens when you learn how to work that phone system because you get to be the really cool intern that doesn't have to be babysat on the phones. And that that, you know, really great experience in a district office opened my eyes to a whole different world of a role of what what government officials do and sort of left that sort of imprint in the back of my mind. you know, I was fortunate enough to to go to Washington. I interned for Senator Mitch McConnell in the fall of of four and then worked on Capitol Hill after that. So was doing policy work, writing letters, responding to constituent mail, giving tours, which might have been the coolest job I ever got to do, is wandering around the Capitol with with constituents and telling stories about all the the cool places within the Capitol building. And then just sort of, you know, got to a point where that boss had retired. I moved to Nashville for a year and realized I wasn't made for a cubicle and had the opportunity to move home to run a congressional campaign for a guy that was a cardiothoracic surgeon, Larry Bouchon, who who was running for office in 2010. That's what got me to Evansville again after kind of figuring I'd never move home again. You know how that goes? The boomerang swung back and worked for him for for several years and got to that point where two-year cycle is not a really great way to sort of plan out your life. And the Southwest Indiana Chamber had their government affairs position opened. And I think Christie'd kind of heard my name around. And I had, you know, I heard about it and made a couple quick phone calls. And I'll never forget during the interview. Christy asked me, you know, where I saw myself in five years. And I literally, before I could stop myself, I laughed out loud because I didn't know what a five year, I didn't know what five years looked like because you're so ingrained in a congressional cycle that you can't look two years ahead. You could be really good at your job, but somebody does something that you had nothing to do with and you're out of a job. And so I laughed and thought I wasn't gonna get the job because I had insulted her somehow. She thought it was hilarious later when I told her that story. And she hired me as the government affairs guy. At the Southwest Indian Chamber, and it changed everything. I kind of came into it as this guy that was going to be a lobbyist, and this was just sort of the first step of moving to Indy or moving back to DC and doing the high powered lobbying thing. Cause that's just what you do, right? She kept telling me, No, I think you're a chamber guy. And I'm like, no. No. And I'll tell you, I was at Midwest Institute. was my first full day of of class. And it was probably the after lunch session. And I texted her and I said, Damn it, Christy, you're right. I'm a chamber guy. And she goes, I knew it. And it's been that way ever since. You know, I took a one year stint as as chief of staff to our state treasurer. And that was an opportunity I just I couldn't pass up. But it took me not real long to realize I I needed to get back in. And and Christy Gillenwater was in Chattanooga and called and said, You're moving. And that was the job interview. And I moved to Chattanooga and now I've been in chamber world ever since. So again, I think it's just It's the impact you can have on a community in a way that isn't as cutthroat as politics can get. You get to do all the fun stuff without having to do the brass knuckle stuff that has to happen. And I've been very fortunate to be able to work in places that I've really I've come to care about. Like when you get to come home and work on your hometown, like that means more to me than it's more than just a job, right? Because My family still lives here. My parents are still here. My, you know, we moved back and with a three month old and he's gonna grow up here. And our second daughter is gonna grow up here. It's been a really cool, unique experience to be able to come home twice now. I've told my mother that the boomerang's buried in the backyard at this point. Because of the impact you can have on communities that mean something to you that made you who you are. That's been really the imp cool thing for me. And I'm I'm grateful that I got the opportunity to come back in the current role I have and still get to kind of do the things that make Devonsville the great place it is. speaker-1: I love that and common theme on the pod with almost everyone we talk to. It's like once you get a taste of the chamber world, it brings you in. speaker-0: That's exactly right, man. It it's it's it's a thing. And you know, I think the other thing too about Chamber World is I don't know that I've met anybody that I'm not friends with. You know what I mean? Like it's just this wild community of people that get it. And we're all in it together and we know it. And there's very little competition. There's very little elbow, you know, R and D is Robin Duplicate, not researching. And so, you know, I think that is as much of of why I love it as anything else. I mean, the people that I've met through this line of work are people that I'll talk to if and when I ever do something else, you know, those relationships won't go away. And I think that's really the cool thing about this industry and what we all get to do. speaker-1: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Now, I'd love to kind of dive into the meat of the episode. Obviously, you know, your background in government, in politics, really, I think set you up in a strong position to do some of this really incredible advocacy work. However, something you know we hear from chamber leaders constantly is we do the ribbon cuttings, we do the networking events, the awards dinners, all those things, but When it comes to advocacy work, we're always trying to figure out how's the best way to play this, especially when it involves the big scary word of politics, right? We d we don't wanna lose any members. You've bet your whole career really on the opposite and embracing this advocacy work as much as possible. Can you make the case? Why is advocacy one of the biggest value ads a chamber can offer? speaker-0: Well, I think one of the things that I've learned or I've heard, I've got a couple of quotes that have stuck with me throughout my career. And I heard Governor Daniels say it once, and I think it's been attributed to Al Capone at one point, but if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And to me, the one job that we have as chambers is to make our businesses in an environment that can make them successful. And ribbon cuttings are great and events are great and networking is great, but if we're not helping set the stage at a policy level, we're not really doing our jobs, I think, to the best of our ability. I think the other thing that gets gets conflated is advocacy versus politics, right? They're they're two different things. They're cousins and they they run parallel. So you have to be aware of it. But the idea that you're getting into politics because you're advocating a position on a policy that is detrimental to your businesses is not the same thing. And I think it comes back to, you know, separating those two things out. I think it's making sure that you have the right relationships with. the elected officials at the city council, at in your state delegation, at the federal level, depending on what the issue is. And if you're in front of them and they know who you are and you have done the work of figuring out where your members are, your voice matters and it needs to be at the table. Like every chamber, where you've seen one chamber, you've seen one chamber, you've seen one advocacy department, you've seen one advocacy department. There's a thousand ways, you know, to eat a whale. It's Which tack do you want to take? And I think it's understanding that it's not a high-powered lobbyist or having a pack or all of sort of the more sophisticated things chambers can do. It's as simple as going to a city council meeting and being seen. It's having a cell phone number of a city councilman that you know and trust to have a conversation when some of your businesses find a problem. It's knowing who your state representatives are and following your state chambers policy work to know what's going on. I think I think all of those things are government affairs, right? And so I think it's it's not letting the scope of the work overtake the importance of the work, and starting small, figuring out who those people on your membership team are or in your membership that want to be involved in public policy, you know, creating a committee. Those sorts of things are pretty standard and easy. And then it's just showing up and being seen. And at some point someone's gonna ask, hey, why is the chamber here? And, you know, it could just be, look, we're just paying attention. And that in and of itself sends a message, right? So I think all of those things are why we should be doing this at a higher level because we live in a dynamic world that's changing. Faster than any of us can keep up with. And if we're having a hard time keeping up with it, you know the small business owner on Main Street that's just trying to keep his lights on don't have time. So it's really our job and our responsibility, I think, as chamber professionals to help that guy who doesn't have time for it to know that his interests are being protected and and advocated for at whatever level of government that is. You don't have to scale Washington, right? Like Have your congressman come in for a round table and that be the extent of it, but you're giving them the access that they wouldn't normally have. And I think being a convener and being that sort of tip of the spear in terms of getting your members educated on just what's happening is a great first step. Yeah. speaker-1: And you talked about that, like not letting the scope of the work overtake the importance of it. I'd love if we could get into the playbook a little bit. And obviously every chambers advocacy program is gonna look a little bit different, but some of your highlights, right? In Sha Chattanooga, you ran public policy for four years. You did annual day at the state house, federal focused programming. Could you walk us through how you stood up an advocacy program from scratch? speaker-0: Sure. In fairness, we had a really good program in Evansville. And, you know, Steve Schaefer and Sally Rideout, who's now our contract lobbyist here in Evansville, like I had people that had done it before that had, you know, congressional experience and state house experience before me was really how I learned how to do it. And I'm grateful for for those relationships. And I also came to it with with relationships at the federal level. That, you know, were relevant too, which helped. But moving to Chattanooga, all of those relationships went away. I had one two phone numbers when I moved there, and they were both people from Evansville that had moved to Chattanooga. So I knew nobody, right? And Chattanooga had been involved in public policy, and they had a government affairs committee, but they didn't have a staffer that was dedicated just to public policy. They were doing workforce, they were doing education programming, they were doing a whole bunch of other stuff. And when Christy got there, You know, she saw the value of workforce and education work being its own standalone thing. And she understood the value of of government affairs being its own thing. So from that standpoint, you know, I didn't walk into it cold. There was a government affairs committee, but they didn't have the expertise and having people that were in the state house all the time. And and there were a couple of political missteps that happened that got everybody kind of stared into their own shadow a little bit that we really kind of put processes in place first to kind of help mitigate some of that. You know, during the legislative session, I was there at least a day a week, visiting with with legislators across the board with our legislative agenda, having a dynamic board, I think a committee is helpful because they're the ones that are going to help give you, you know, real-time feedback of what is important to the broader membership. They have relationships that I didn't have that they could help. Me bridge some of those early relationships with legislators outside of just our delegation and could give me, you know, the good word to those elected officials, because I was the guy from Indiana, right? I wasn't from Chattanooga. And there's, you know, you go down south, there's a certain suspect, right? You're not from around here. And you had to kind of fight that a little bit. And then and I think we did okay there. So from there, it's once you get sort of the backbone of it, it it's really just how how can you Give your members access, right? I mean, to me, that is as big a piece of it. So, you know, a day at the state house is is really, I think, one of the more important things that a chamber can do because it's one thing when you talk to a legislator in their backyard, right? Where they're looking for things to do. It's a different conversation. When you show up to the state house and you show up to Washington. They're in the middle of a committee hearing and they're in the committee and they're in the middle of walking hallways with every lobbyist they've seen every day for the entirety of the legislative session. And they see 15 of of their businesses show up in the hallway, that leaves a a lasting mark. Because A, they're friendly faces in most cases, right? They're they're constituents. And that puts you at the head of the line, you know, in terms of of getting a meeting or Again, sending that message that we're involved and we're engaged. So I think I think something like that is very important. in terms of federal focus, that was an event that they had never really done before, where we would kind of have a conversation with some sort of I don't want to say nonpartisan, but sort of not a hyper political partisan speaker that could give some objective view of what was going on in Washington. And then we would do a Q<unk>A with, you know, one of the two state US senators and and the congressmen and kind of get the perspective from the local perspective. So those are events I think that are are fairly easy to do. Again, most of your elected officials are looking for opportunities like that to get in a room with, 50 to 100 of their constituents. And those are some easy things that you can do and make some money off of, quite frankly, because you can sell tickets and and there's not a a a large lift. Stay at the state house in in Chattanooga, we would rent a bus and and take a bus up in in Evansville. Everybody just meets at the Capitol at the prescribed time and they all just drive up themselves. So, you know, you don't have to take it, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money to do these things. It's a lot of it's the coordinating the meetings and coordinating where you're gonna, you know, meet in the state house. I think there's some some coordination there that that you do need to kind of keep tabs on. But, you know There's there's a hundred ways to do it. And I and I think it's just it's just committing to doing it and then letting your volunteers kinda help with meetings and and that sort of thing. speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I love how in the beginning there you talked a little bit about some of the best ways you learned how to effectively run some of these advocacy programs was through collaboration with some of the folks that have already have already done it, right? Whether that's other chamber leaders, whether that's other folks that are involved in shaping public policy. I think that ties really nicely into some of the really big wins that you guys have been having recently, right? So you just pulled in ninety-five million dollars across two rounds of Indiana's Ready program and are also working on a huge project for the I-69 Ohio River crossing that's slated for completion in twenty thirty-one. For wins that are are that large, can you talk a little bit more about kind of how collaboration plays a role? speaker-0: Sure. I mean, for us, collaboration was everything. You know, going back even further than ready, one of the projects that we worked on when Mike Pence was governor was a thing called regional cities. And, you know, it really was sort of you you could look at the Oklahoma City maps model as to kind of how they wanted to model it, where regions like the city of Oklahoma had seven projects. They were going to pass a A one cent sales tax to fund those seven projects. And there was no changing the projects. You you voted on the plan up or down and and that was it. And and so Indiana, in trying to sort of promote promote a more regional approach to economic development, said, We're gonna try this out. We're gonna pilot it. We're gonna give away two awards of I think forty five million, maybe. I I I can't remember. It's been a it's been a while, but it was, it was a significant chunk of money. But the idea was regions were going to put plans together for a set number of projects that had local government buy-in, that had private sector buy-in, and the state was going to come alongside and kind of of do the butt for money, right? So they were going to put 45 million into two communities, and we all had to pitch what were the projects. And in in Southwest Indiana, it was four counties. It was the four counties that we've talked about. And we did it really well because we've had a regional approach to economic development for a long time. So Gibson County and Posey County and Warwick County and Vandenberg County all kind of knew Evansville was going to be the anchor, but everybody else, A, benefits when Evansville wins. And B, to leverage that win with wins around the region, nobody kind of, you know, started elbowing. And we were able to kind of get buy-in from everybody very early and and we've led the state in that effort. And based on the success of of regional cities, then Indiana went into the Ready projects and it's the same similar concept where Communities and regions put together set plans based on kind of what guidelines the state wants you to focus on, whether it's housing or quality of place or whatever. And we've been able to to win maximum amounts of money out of those two programs. And the results are literally billions of dollars of economic impact in Southwest Indiana. It's really been a huge catalyst for us, certainly in terms of right sizing our housing supply, some of those quality of place, you know, measures that that just you wouldn't be able to do without sort of a coordinated effort of bringing private dollars, local dollars, and state dollars together. We've been able to capitalize on that. So collaboration's really been the secret sauce in Southwest Indiana for a long time. And in shifting gears to the the Ohio River crossing, You know, Indiana or Evansville had long been the largest city in the country without a direct route to its state capital. For whatever reason, when they did the the nineteen fifties interstate program, they they failed to complete I-69. They built it from Michigan to Fort Wayne to Indianapolis and then stopped. And so, you know, for sixty years we've been talking about trying to get I-69 completed from Evansville to Indianapolis. we were also laser focused on it that when Mitch Daniels passed major moves and we were going to get Evansville to Indianapolis, everybody was super pumped as and rightly so. One of those kind of great days to be around when Mitch did the ribbon cutting and he was on his motorcycle on a an interstate that that wasn't open yet, we could all drive as fast as we wanted. It was kind of fun. But we realized shortly thereafter that there's a river right behind you know, Evansville. And and I-69 just becomes a cul de sac if we don't build a bridge to connect Kentucky, which then moves it, you know, basically gets you unfettered interstate access from Canada to Memphis. So we we very quickly built on the momentum from I-69. And it was one of those unique deals where I think one of the last meetings I had as a congressional staffer with Congressman Bouchon was about the I 69 bridge. And literally two weeks later, I think one of the first meetings I had at the other end of the table was as the government affairs guy about the I-69 bridge. So that's really been sort of my my big passion project as a government affairs guy in southwest Indiana. But it literally took the collaboration of the chamber in Henderson and the Chamber in Evansville saying, hey, look, like we've got to get this done. And we built the separate entity that's housed at EREP called Bridgelink. And it was local government officials, it was local business leaders in Henderson and Evansville coming together and saying, Hey, look, we got to get this bridge done. And, you know, we've got some very passionate people that don't take no for an answer. I think that certainly helps. And, you know, that have Rolodexes that could pick up the phone and call the governor and call the the DOT chairs. I mean, we picked the right people to really sort of make our case. You know, trailer construction, you know, is a massive bridge builder It's in our backyard in Evansville. He was very helpful in c sort of laying out what was a realistic price tag for a bridge. We tackled, you know, what are ways that we could finance it. And we said from the beginning, we're gonna have to toll it. It's gonna be a toll project. And we led on the education piece on that, because no one wants tolls, right? Till until they do, until until you gotta build something big, right? And so we took the lumps on that early and we said, hey, look, this is gonna be a toll project. And we had local governments passing resolutions supporting you know, tolling the bridge to get it going. And before long, you now have this like coalition of of two communities in two different states growing the same way, speaking from the same playbook. You know, the legislators on both sides of the river were supportive and talking to each other. I mean, we had a couple of roundtables with the Kentucky delegations and Indiana delegations in the state house talking to each other, saying, Hey, look, you've got to talk to your guys. We'll talk to our guys and we've got to get yes. And so We recently had a group from both Kentucky and Indiana met with U.S. Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, in his office. And I'll bet you there were seven members of Congress. There were two DOT, both state DOTs, the governor of one state, chief of staff to the other governor, in the meeting. And he walks in and he goes, I've never seen two states. In the same room talking the same way ever. I mean, and I think that's the kind of thing that that if you can pull off as a chamberer, you can get a lot done. And, you know, we've been working on this bridge for 13 years, which sounds like a long time, but in the span of a federal bridge that's going to be probably 1.2 billion when it's done, that's pretty lightning fast to get all of the hoops done. And it was because we had the right people, we found the right people. at the table. We had a moment in time when transportation infrastructure was the thing. we met the moment and we got it done. And and again, you know, Indiana's approach work is going to finish in September, October probably. We'll know the design build team in early November and and it's off to the races to build a bridge. So in twenty thirty one, I look forward to to having one last bridge link meeting when we cut the ribbon on that thing. So yeah. Yeah. So again, that was it's been kinda neat to be able to come back. When I left it was it was you know, we were in the environmental phase, so it was at a pretty good point. To be able to come back and kind of now get to see the project through has been really, really probably the most fun about coming home. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, those big wins obviously are are are so incredible and such cool stories to hear about. I do want to bring it back though for the chamber leaders listening that, you know, maybe only have two or three staff, right? And not a dedicated advocacy team or anything like that. Where do they start in getting advocacy off the ground? If you go back to maybe your your time in Chattanooga or or times when advocacy was just getting started, you had to build it from scratch. Where where does the small chamber Sure. speaker-0: Started here. I I think it's a having a conversation with your board and getting them comfortable with the idea of we need to probably have some idea of where our members are. If you can have a government affairs committee, it's it's who are those who are those people in your membership portfolio that maybe have a government affairs person that that can come to a meeting once a month and kind of help be those eyes and ears. when they're in the state house, if you don't have the ability to spend a lot of time in the hallways, find those companies that do, because they're there and lean on them for some advice. You know, outside of the committee, pull your membership. like what are what are the important issues? I think getting a handle what are the pinch points for your businesses? What are the policy issues at the local level and the state level that matter? And then I think it's it's once you kind of know that and you have some dedicated members that are interested in helping you out. Then you can come up with the, okay, well, maybe we do need to start going to a city council meeting and talking about X, or, you know, maybe we do need to have a day at the State House and and try to gauge interest that way. You know, a blurb in your newsletter, you know, everybody communicates. I think that's an easy way to get feedback or at least educate your members on on things that you're working on or that you're interested in from a policy perspective. And I think those are some easy starting points. And then from there you sort of build it out, right? Once you kind of get a handle on on where your members are, then okay, what are the policy positions that we can take that we can send? You know, what are the four or five pillar things that we care about? Taxes, infrastructure, childcare, fighting the fight on data centers one way or the other. Like, you know, pick pick what are the things that are really sort of matter to your community and to your members, and then pick one or two of them and just start kind of small and let it organically grow. Cause as your members see success, you will get more people involved. You will get more expertise there. And as government leaders start to to trust that, you know, you're not playing politics, but that you're just trying to educate them on where their constituents are, they'll start looking to you. And and I think that's that's really where the the secret sauce is, is when they start asking you, hey, what do you guys think about this? Or we're we're thinking about this. Do you know, where do you think the business community is gonna come down on it? and that's that's as much relational as it is, you know, a system or or or a process, right? So I think having those relationships is really important. And and then, being able to articulate your story I think is really important to you. Like what do you members care about? speaker-1: Bread and butter, I think, of every every every chamber, right? Is the relationships there. speaker-0: And and I and you cannot undersell those. And again, it's it's even if it's not let's let's have a government affairs committee and it's not, you know, let's write a big policy agenda, have a round table. You know, host your elected officials and let your businesses have an opportunity to talk directly to them. I mean, it it's as simple I mean it can be as simple as that. And I think elected officials learn as much or more that way than they do any other way anyway. And so even if you're not taking a policy position, be the convener. You know, be the place where the city council and the mayor or state rep can come and get 15 to 20 of your business members in a room and say, hey, look, let's talk. what are your issues? I'm going to talk about kind of what I'm working on. And then, you know, what what do you need help with? And I think that is as much an advocacy win as anything, right? Because that's really where you're directly giving your members value. speaker-1: Hundred percent, hundred percent. Really well said. And I I think it covered a lot of great ground there, Justin. Last question we like to ask all our guests on the show, closes every episode out. What's one last piece of advice you'd give to the other chamber leaders that are listening into the show today? speaker-0: Go Institute. Go through Institute. I think you will learn a ton of information. If you're a CEO and you're a seasoned CEO, you'll you'll find something new that you haven't thought of. I I think the value that I had in my my four years there from 2015 to 2018 in Midwest was, you know, I came into to government affairs from government. I didn't come from Chamber World, right? And it's a different thing. Like it it took me a long time to kind of figure it out. But I really kind of had my my focus was I'm the government affairs guy. I don't need to, I don't care about membership. I don't care about event. I mean, I did, but you know, I'm not getting involved. Like I'm right here. And I think the thing that Institute taught me as a staffer was was I had a better understanding of how all the pieces fit and how my work could enhance. their work in ways that I had never even considered. And I think again, when you're the guy that is a value ad, finding ways for you to engage with your membership team and your, your, stack of members that you're trying to sell, if I need to go on a meeting, ask me to go on a meeting and I'll sell the public policy piece to it. Or do we need to have a public policy event that we haven't thought of before? How do we get more people to lunch with the governor or, you know, create a policy focus event? You know, that just wasn't on my radar before I went through Institute. So it really was very eye-opening. I've met some of the best people in my life through Institute. And and I it it does certainly also give you a sense of solitude that every time you feel like you're on an island by yourself dealing with an issue, believe me, there are 15 other chamber people that are your friends that are dealing with the same thing. So Go to institute would be my one big piece of advice. Build your Rolodex as much as you can and then call because they'll answer. Those are kind of my two sort of I'll I'll leave you with that. Love it. speaker-1: Love it. And I think on today's episode, obviously, you know, the broader theme was advocacy. But I think the thing that really stuck out to me was whether it was just we talked about with Institute, whether it's working with other communities and in other states to get large advocacy projects done, whether it's, you know, engaging with your members, bringing them in to city meetings, town halls, state state house visits, et cetera. The key thing with all of this is collaboration. Between you, your constituents, other chamberleaders, et cetera. So I mean, I think that is one of the biggest takeaways today. As both Justin and I mentioned earlier, a big thing we want chamberleaders doing is R R, Rob and Rob speaker-0: R D R and D. speaker-1: and Duplicate. Rob and Duplicate, check out the Evansville Regional Economic Partnership. We have their links in the description below. Especially check out that advocacy tab. There's some lot of great insights that you can take and utilize at your chamber as well. But I just want to say again, Justin, thank you so much for coming on the pod. And to everyone listening, thanks for tuning in to be on the ribbon cut. We'll catch you on the next episode.