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Chip is Back! · Mental Health and the Mission of the Church

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel almost like a reboot has happened with your zeal for ministry?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Pick that wording apart.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Does it feel like a reboot of excitement?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna answer it in kind of a weird way.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably one of my biggest fears because I don't want my life to get out of control again.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, it was a thought that came from outside of me in the land of the living.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, God, that brings me such peace.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: That brings me back to that place of just like, I know this is gonna be okay.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: I said, is there something wrong with me?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Why aren't I freaking out?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then immediately, here's the thought I heard.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during a storm.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Man.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that's exactly what I feel like.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at peace in the back of the boat during a storm.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Said take a deep breath, and I thought it was never gonna stop.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: It just kept going.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was beautiful.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was just beautiful.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for our listeners' sake, this is actually the first time that I've actually gotten to really talk with Chip, who is my friend and pastor and mentor.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've texted back and forth some, but it brings my heart joy to see you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am looking forward to spending this time so people can really get a thorough update because your family sucked at it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you enjoy hearing your family last episode?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: What was that like, man?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I really did, Joey.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't sure how it was gonna go, where it was gonna go.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, truthfully, I'm I'm proud of them.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm proud of the way they they talked about the the experience we went through together, but I'm proud of how they talked about their faith and they were honest, you know, like my son was honest.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: There were some things said that, you know, uh a dad likes to hear, you know.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: There were some things said that I mean, quite honestly, I don't know that I've ever heard exactly that same way.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was very, very proud and pleased, and I like my kids.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: I like my wife.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Just as just as people.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: I like how they think.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: They all have a kind of a core basic care for other people and issues, you know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: They get involved in different ways, of course, to different degrees.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was pretty pleased.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: I really was.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd never met any of your kids, so that was neat to get some FaceTime.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I could I could imagine as a as a dad listening to that, it's just I don't know.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you needed any sort of confirmation of anything, but just to hear it, you know, it's gotta be kind of cool.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it was cool to, you know, it was cool to hear their you know, their perspective of of the whole process we've been through together.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, some of it, I was out of it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Right.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you did a great job, Joey.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: You really did.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was this whole time I've been fishing for a compliment and I finally got it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know you, Joey.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: I know what I know what fuels your I won't even finish that statement.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I I am curious, was there any surprises or new findings there?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh wow, I I didn't know they thought that, or I didn't know that's a great question.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: I guess the surprise for me would be I'm being watched more than I probably realized.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't mean like in a you know weird way, but obviously you want to have an influence in your kids' lives.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: And um again, I'm not a perfect human being and whatever, but I was pleased to to know that I am having a an influence in my kids' lives and and the experience kind of up the ante on that.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I love some of the observations they made, man.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, both Colleen and the kids.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was cool, very cool.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So want to dig into some questions that get into some deeper thoughts, gets into the the future.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear whatever you're willing to share about the life that was lost in order for you to have new lungs.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to start here with just what's been the hardest part of the journey.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you can go anywhere with this, but if you wanted, I I I would like to know whether the mental angst of not knowing how all of this was gonna pain it, uh pan out like before the transplant was that harder than the actual physical pain associated with the actual transplant.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and again, I you know, I feel like some of it may sound weird, although my my kids and Colleen kind of set this up.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: I um I mean, gosh, Joey, and and you and I've told you this back when it was happening.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: I had such a the only phrase I came up with was it was like an effortless piece.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just knew, I don't mean like I knew it was weird, Joey.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: I just had deep in my the core of my being, I knew it was gonna be okay.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the the liver biopsy, those two, three, four days, whatever it was, um, that was rough because I knew we were gonna get a phone call or a doctor visit that was gonna say uh you're gonna remain a you know a candidate for lungs or we're gonna watch you die a slow, unpleasant death.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: That was tricky for sure, but I still deep down knew, felt it was gonna be okay.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: And here's part of how I knew that was real.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I hit some really low spots in those three or four days, it didn't take much to pull me out of it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like Greg, Greg texts me a song, a Brandon Lake song, something like Fear is Not My Future or something like that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like man.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I just knew it.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, why would God bring me this far?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Why would He bring me such hope?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when when you when you say that you knew everything was going to be okay, you're not talking about the even if I pass away eternity.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you mean you had a piece that everything was going to be okay and your life was gonna continue.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: That I was not leaving, I was not finished.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think I might have shared on one of our brief uh updates that uh it was during that darkest part there when, and again, just in case people don't know, uh I had to have a let right at the end.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like we were about to be put on the list for transplant, and uh we meet with one of the doctors and he says, We've got one more issue.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we're thinking, you know, what color's your favorite color or something?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, uh, you know, we just we just weren't prepared for it to be an issue.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: And he proceeds to say, we've seen some indications of something in your liver.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: There's a test we need to do, and if the test falls one way, you cannot get lungs.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and basically that was saying you're going to die of this disease and not very far in the future.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so we had the the biopsy done, I can't remember, Thursday or something, and we had to wait till Monday to get the word, and we didn't get called on Monday until like seven o'clock that night.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: That was tough.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I can remember during that stretch, I can still picture I was standing at at the window of my condo looking out the porch.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'd I'd been praying and I'd heard I heard just a couple of things bubble up in my spirit.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and one of them was in the land of the living.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I think that's a scripture.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: And sure enough, I looked it up and it said um something like how miserable I'd be if I didn't believe that I was going to see the goodness of God in the land of the living.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that thing just like I you know it's kind of like when that happens, it's kind of like I almost look around, like, did I make that up?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it was not an audible voice, but it was so obviously not not self-initiated or self-perpetuated.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, it was a thought that came from outside of me in the land of the living.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I think I mishared some of this, Joey, but then same same kind of little moment with God.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, God, that brings me such peace.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: That brings me back to that place of just like I know this is gonna be okay.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and here's what I said.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Is there something wrong with me?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why aren't I freaking out?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Why, what's the deal?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then immediately, here's the thought I heard.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus was asleep in the back of the boat during a storm.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Man.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that's exactly what I feel like.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at peace in the back of the boat during a storm.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like God was reassuring me, number one, you're gonna enjoy my presence in the land of the living.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: And number two, that peace you're feeling is what I want you to feel.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot we could say there, Joey.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: When when when this whole thing first started, I knew remember now that the initial awareness that something was wrong was eight years ago.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: About six years ago, we got the definitive uh diagnosis and you know, realized this is not something that just kind of comes and goes.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I don't know, somewhere three, four years ago when it started to affect me in bigger ways.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I had to make up my mind.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: How, how, how, how are you fighting this, dude?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna do?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Are you gonna are you gonna go the the the warp speed spiritual warfare route and call everybody you know, get sea coast, going, you know, I'm I'm on staff at a wonderful big church.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I really felt, I really felt this, I I I this may bother some people, but I really felt checked by the Holy Spirit.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of don't want you to do that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you don't want me to do that, or I don't want to do that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: What are we talking about here?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because I didn't really want to do that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I travel and and get around and whatever, and I just didn't want, I didn't want go to speak at a church and some random people in the foyer asking me how I'm doing.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: I just didn't want that.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: But here's what I felt like God said.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I came from the faith movement, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we learned how to believe God and you know, stand on his word, and I was doing that to a degree.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Not to the degree I used to would have, though.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And here's what I felt like God said.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want you to faith your way through this.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to trust your way through this.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a difference for sure.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the and the way we were kind of taught, in some circles, some places I'm sure it was healthier, it was almost like a form of works.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: You speak the right thing, you you you guard your tongue, you this, that, and the other.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: And how I feel like it translated for me, Joey, was I mean, I've been on the clock with God for uh 48 years, almost 49 now.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: And the way it the way it translated for me was I know you, God.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't mean perfectly and totally, but I I know you.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I genuinely trust you.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, he said, that's what I want you to stand on.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to stand on my character, our relationship.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, let's uh let me throw in an honest thing here.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm a person who values spending time with God listening.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did that, and what I felt like God said was it's going to get worse before it gets better.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember that.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: And basically, I felt like he was telling me you're going to have a transplant.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, again, not to unnecessarily freak people out, but he was basically saying a supernatural healing's probably not in the mix here.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: But a supernatural event is.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it when you made the distinct distinction between faith and trust, like is that like a permanent shift in that you look back and you realize that you had been missing a piece these last 48 years, that you've been more of a faith guy and name it, claim it, and like that's more of a forceful, active, like I gotta, I gotta have faith so God would move, and you've permanently shifted to a more trusting, or was that situational?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what God asked you to do in this situation.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it a theological shift in your relationship?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll answer the best I can, and you tell me.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't use that phrasing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: I would call it the necessary uh sequential process of growth and learning and and and developing a relationship with someone.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everybody would say trust is a key part of a relationship.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, trust is Joey texts me and says, Hey, let's do a podcast at four o'clock on Thursday.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: You and I've known each other long enough that you know I'm gonna be here, I know you're gonna be here, I trust you.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: That makes it fun.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it where I know you're gonna come and you're gonna you I'm gonna feel like you care about what I'm saying.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna feel like you're you're not doing this.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let me check this off.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel uh listened to, I feel heard.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what I'm getting at is that's trust, but it's built on top of faith.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've walked with you for how long now, Joey?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: 13 years.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I I know you pretty stinking well.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even longer than that, yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if that makes sense, but faith, the way we're taught it, and there's more to it than that, of course, but it is confidence in somebody's word.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do they do what they say?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Do they mean what they say?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Do they say what they mean?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And but I believe it evolves into this just steady, and I think that's what you're trying to get at, correct me.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, it translates into this steady shift of like I find myself through that whole process and in other situations.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, even at the worst, man, even the whole liver thing, it was not a it was not a struggle for me to say, God, I trust you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Even if this ends poorly, I I I trust you.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna take care of my wife, you're gonna take care of my kids.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: You get a kick out of this, uh, our our closeness.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually, uh won't get into it because it's not really relevant to the conversation, but before I told my therapist something this morning, I literally said, I know I've told Chip this, but I don't even think I've told you this.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she knows who you are.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, I you know, I want to just remark on how it really is crazy having this longer conversation with you for the first time, knowing that you're breathing through different lungs.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a noticeable, like last time we've had a conversation like this, it uh like I would edit out most of your extra breaths just because it was very apparent.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's now you just sound normal, you know, like normal, healthy lungs.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how are you doing physically?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like just in general, yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a abrasive thing that you've gone through just you know, a measly couple months ago, not even that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, a couple of thoughts I had when you were saying what you were saying.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh, you know, I go to rehab, which is basically working out because what's one of the best you can do is get your your body in better shape.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's slow going right now, to be honest with you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've lost so much weight and whatever.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing the last exercise and it was rough.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was, you know, for where I'm at.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was kind of a stepper sort of thing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: I hope this will make sense.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: I told my therapy my therapist there, the rehab, and then I told Colleen, that's the first time in probably five years I have broken a sweat.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what that means is I couldn't breathe hard enough to make my body sweat prior to the search.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is that making sense?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Was that a realization at that point?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow, I haven't sweat in five years, or did you know that?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm very I'm very aware of it because you know Kelly and I work work out have worked out for years.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: About three to five years ago, I noticed that my muscles wanted to do more, but my lungs couldn't.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't work out hard enough to sweat.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like we get through a 45-minute, you know, kind of lower intensity, pretty intense workout, and I wouldn't even be sweating because I had to stop so many times.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm on the thing that today, and I'm about halfway through the 15 minutes on that particular uh device, and I thought, you're starting to sweat, dude.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I can dig this.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: I can dig this.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Another way to say it, Joey, is like you were asking me about where I'm at.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, gosh, there's so much that the the surgery is rougher than I thought, to be honest.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, oh gosh, dude.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: And the recovery, you know, I mean, think about what we were talking about a minute ago, and you know, I I had this sense of peace, and you know, it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and God's gonna get me through this.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then all, you know, whatever.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's sort of a spiritually romanticness, or you know, there's something kind of cool about that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: We get the call that the I'm just being honest.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're tickled right now, man.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: We we get the call that I have lungs that are available if I want them.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: I went into shock, dude.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I thought I knew I knew what was about to happen.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now I had no idea how bad it was gonna be, but I'm not stupid.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, you know, this is great, but they're about to cut you open, dude.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: And and I and here's my thought.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: We were on James Island driving to John's Island to see our son and his family, and we get the call, we have lungs, we need you to get home and get back, get to the hospital.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and Colleen's all excited, and I'm excited, but I was faking some of it because I thought I have no clue what I'm about to step into.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And here's my thought.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're on the train, dude.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: There ain't no getting off now.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever this is, it is about to be.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it freaked me out.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, not not fear, but I knew some pain was coming.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was worse than you thought, because uh it seems like you would imagine the worse.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think I have a way that I just sort of dance around that kind of stuff.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, the the recovery has been I mean, I had no frame of reference for it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: There were different aspects of it that just were horrible.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: All I can tell you is I woke up.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, they they're they're doing drugs, and so you'd you know you'd sleep a bit and then you'd wake up and you'd be like, oh, what in the world?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: My kids my kids, of course, after the fact, they laugh at me how I was moaning and groaning.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: But that was for about 48 hours.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: And here's the crazy thing.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know that I'd say that was the worst of it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because you you get a transplant, they do the the two key things are anti-rejection and anti-infection.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Anti-rejection just wipes out your immune system, which means you better not get an infection.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you they put you on, like I'm still probably taking 30 to 40 pills a day.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't exaggerating just now?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: Good gosh.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm taking definitely between 20 and 40.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Every day.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, there's some of them I'll be taking for the rest of my life, which I'm grateful for.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: But here's the deal: a couple of these drugs don't play.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was hallucinating, uh, couldn't sleep, jittery.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like when I say jittery, I mean shaking.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like shaking.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, enough discomfort that I enjoyed that I could breathe, but honestly, it took me longer than you would think to really be able to appreciate it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I like how you articulated that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like I would lay in, I mean, here we're in ICU, but they're, you know, again, thank God they're doing their job, but they're waking you up every couple hours and poking you and whatever.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: But it didn't matter.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: I would sleep, I'm not kidding, Joey.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would sleep three minutes.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason I know that is I would look at the clock.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: A few minutes later, or what I didn't know how long, I'd kind of come out of thinking, oh, I I finally got some sleep.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'd look at the clock and it'd be three minutes.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Dang it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm not kidding.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, it was like that for five days.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, gosh.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: I did not sleep.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't mess with you, man.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, dude.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: One of the one of the uh side effects of the medications is hopefully temporary diabetes.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm talking like full-blown, like I take six insulin shots a day right now.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Gracious.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Six.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Did you know that before going into all this?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: They told me I'd probably be a diabetic.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now they didn't they they said permanent, we don't know, but often you are a person is just a byproduct of the drugs.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it never occurred to me that I'd be taking insulin shots every day.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm talking six.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I'd check my insulin four times a day and get a shot every time, and twice a day I get two shots.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you give yourself your own shot?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Colleen did it for a while.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm uh tomorrow will be uh seven weeks, I think.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, I'm doing incredibly well.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: The doctor told me Tuesday at our appointment we were we were working on the diabetes stuff, and he said, Thank God this is our biggest problem.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, what do you mean by that?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Because there's other others that are much, much worse.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, This one's to be expected, and uh we can manage it.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: He said, We can manage your your sugar.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and I said, Well, what do you mean?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: And he named a couple things, and I said, Yeah, I'll stick with what I got.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the recovery, I mean, you know, like I tried to post a little bit, my thoughts were just foggy and drifty, and I would probably put it this way, this weekend, past weekend, and I think you you know you mentioned already, you can probably tell because you know me so well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: I really feel like myself again.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: My voice is kind of back, you know, stronger.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Still not sleeping great, but I'm on some pretty strong stuff.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'll typically go to sleep probably around, I don't know, ten thirty, eleven, and I'm up at four o'clock.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been up two, three times because the diabetes makes you go to the bathroom a lot.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: So But here's the deal, dude.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I ain't whining.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: I feel better than I thought I'd ever feel again.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And let me let me say that again.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: I feel better already, and I'm not even where I'm going to get to, than I thought I'd ever feel again.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um that's a pretty good deal, dude.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty good deal.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: This scripture came to mind as I was putting together some notes for this conversation.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not only so, but we also think before you do this?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have somewhat of a plan, Mister.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wish it would show a little bit.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: It says, not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character hope.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And hope does not put us to shame because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of this is already coming out in conversation, but what are some of the most significant character development, faith growth, new revelations up until this point?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, you've already talked to this some, but anything else that comes to mind when I ask it specifically like that, like how's God growing you through this?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Let me say something that's not exactly on the point of your question.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: The word suffering.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't deserve to use that word.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Suffering is someone who deals with issues beyond their control that affect every area of their life, every day of their life.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've had a temporary, I mean, if you think about it, obviously it was a big deal, but I don't feel right calling it suffering.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not even a temporary suffering?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You were you weren't suffering temporarily?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, Joey.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just not comfortable with it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Almost like you don't you don't deserve to have that label.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, man, Chip has been suffering.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's something about that phrasing that doesn't resonate.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know, Joey.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: You're catching me a little bit off guard.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I just know I'm not comfortable with it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, and I'm trying to be careful how to say this, but my life on the whole is so much better than I deserve.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know some people automatically want to correct me.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, you deserve it.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus loves me.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: He he uh appointed me to things just like he has you.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: He loves us all the same.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm blessed because I know his love.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: He loves everybody.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I wake up every day and I feel it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: I swim in it, I breathe it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody doesn't do that.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I did that through every second of this experience.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I just I don't know that I can call myself I'm comfortable saying I just that was suffering.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Was it inconvenient?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just went the opposite extreme, man.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't inconvenienced these last eight years.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm so sorry for this little ordeal that you've uh this little mishap.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't prepared to pick my words carefully.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just I'm not comfortable with that.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen people suffer.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes you good at this sort of thing, because I think with podcasting, it's good to be able to think out loud.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's just so interesting.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's really given me pause for thought for sure.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how how long are the and and we'll get into the age of these lungs and all of that, but how how long are new lungs supposed to last for the person that just got them?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if nothing else takes you out, these lungs will last you how long?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: In the process I've been in, you're around uh like at rehab today.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm around people waiting for lungs, just like I was, and I'm around people that have had the surgery.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm around people at different stages, and you talk to people who know people.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I talked to somebody today who told me about somebody who's had their lung transplant was 20 years ago and they're healthy as a horse.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Dang.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: I talked, I talked to someone whose mother, their mother had a lung transplant 21 years ago.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: She's 90, I think, and still doing well.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now, are there people that things get off the rails?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: But as far as the way you worded it, how long are the lungs good for?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: The lungs aren't the issue.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, pretty much your body's tolerance.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, my life's gonna be different in some ways.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've got to be much more aware of uh the threat of infection.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it'll ease off after about a year.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like for for about a year, Joey, I probably can't go to church.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: To protect yourself?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, can't go to restaurants, can't hug up at my grandkids.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because kids are just germ farms, yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Disgusting little things.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: They are, they're just gross.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're gonna probably keep one of my grandkids uh in March, I think it is.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And the only reason we're willing to do it, able to do it, is either I'm gonna sleep in the guest room or they're gonna sleep in the guest room, Colleen and my granddaughter.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And and I've already told her, I said, baby, we we'd love to have you stay with us, but you can't sit in my lap, we can't hug and we can't sit in bed and watch movies.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're not gonna be able to do any of that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, I'm okay with that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: On on that, Joey, my deal is it's hard to get your head around that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's like right now, I'm what did I say, six, seven weeks out.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can't raise my hands above my head.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: I have to be very careful.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Anything upper body, because I have staples holding my chest together.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Dang, yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and they want, and they're permanent, they're they're gonna stay there, but they they need the chest bone to fuse back to itself.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and and and there's times when I'll get in or out of bed and I'll be like, dude, you're not supposed to do that.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Colleen, where where's your mask?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or somebody will come around us and she'll say, tell them they need to put a mask on.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, whatever.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: Again, this journey is new for me, but from what I gather, all of that incrementally loosens a little, but never back to where it once was.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: You had said earlier in this conversation that how how good you feel, you never thought you would feel this good, and you haven't even reached the capacity of how good you're gonna feel.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know relatively what that timeline is on average to where, hey, congratulations, you you you did good, you have these new lungs, and this is pretty much your new life.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's gonna be ways in which you're, you know, like staples there forever.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I'm not saying going back to normal, but when do you plateau and it's like, okay, I did it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: There's some uh milestone demarcation points, roughly.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: One would be eight to twelve weeks.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Some of the harshest drugs I'm on start tapering around, I think one of them next week.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that's gonna be cool.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: You you know, you start to drive, you're allowed to drive somewhere in that eight to twelve week zone.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Another big one's around three months.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Around three months, you typically your medications have come down, you know, so there's kind of a shift there.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Six months, I think there's a bit of another one where they loosen up some of the restrictions.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Probably to answer your question, that's where I'd land.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Probably a year post-surgery is when you're most likely to say, okay, this is life as it's going to be.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever medications I'm gonna be on for the rest of my life, which I will be some, that'll probably be settled by then.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Those would be the best ones I know for now.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I'll you know, I'll be going to the pulmonologist for the rest of my life.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I don't think it'll be all that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, we're getting ready to we we've got we've gone twice a week now for meeting with the transplant team.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think next week we're gonna back off to once a week.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think pretty soon we're gonna go to once every other week.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: But cool thing, Joey, is like I had the doctor appointment Tuesday.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: He said your lungs are they're good as good as we could ever hope for.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: He said you are at a hundred percent of what we hoped you'd reach.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: And and I can tell, dude, I do these pulmonary function tests every week.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, dude.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: The other day I was doing it and she uh said, take a deep breath, and I thought it was never gonna stop.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: It just kept going.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like years, man.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was beautiful.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Such gratitude.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was just beautiful.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think I'm beyond gratitude, Joey.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know what I love.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking even with what I did for eight years, dude, and that's why I can't call it suffering.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love my life, Joey.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: I love my wife, my kids, my friends.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: I am I I love my life, man.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm beyond gratitude, man.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: I wrestle with the possibility of it being over.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's not.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm beyond gratitude, dude.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good album title, book title, beyond gratitude.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: You coined it.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you're willing to share, because I know I well, I don't know if this is tricky territory out of respect for the other family, but I did want to, I think this was brought up with your family in the last recording, and I was like, uh, well, let's reserve this for chip, but tell us what you know about these lungs and who they belong to.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: All right, here's what I'm gonna do.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: I have not spoken to them yet, and we're going to possibly this weekend, in fact.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to be careful because I don't want to ever say anything, go anywhere that they would not be comfortable with.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a very unusual way that this came about.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'll talk a little slower so I can think a little more carefully and be careful.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh to the family, first of all, as I just said, I'm beyond grateful.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: I am beyond grateful.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: And every breath I take for the rest of my life, I owe to you and your pain, the pain that you're going through right now.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: I do pray for you guys.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what's cool is months ago, when we knew it was time to get on oxygen and get on the list and all, we were praying one day, and Colleen tearfully said it just she just realized that for me to get lungs, some other family has to lose a loved one.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so we started that day, every day, praying for that family.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, didn't know who was gonna be, but we started praying that day for a family that was gonna suffer a tragedy that we were going to benefit from.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's the wrong way to say it, so forgive me.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: What happened is a family experienced uh an untimely death.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure I'm right on this, but around 50-year-old, or in the 50s, let's say, and they had, you know, signed up to be organ donors.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so the appropriate medical people said, Are we are we still gonna do that?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and and you know, we have to do things with the body to keep it where the organs are uh alive.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I have sketchy but fairly decent details.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: The question was asked is there anyone you want to give any of these organs to?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Which I didn't know you could do.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, here's where it gets interesting.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's a relational connection such that the family knew about my situation.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa my gosh.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're halfway up the coast, and I think I probably met the wife of the husband uh when she was a kid because of the relational connection to a family in the middle.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: So she's asked, is there anyone you want to make these organs available to?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: She immediately said Chip Chuck.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Golly, I did not expect that.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: What that did was it immediately put me at the top of the list.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: You can't not do that.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: If they want to give those organs to me, the organ donor company can't say no, he's not high enough on the list.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, in other words, it was like they just reached out and saved my life.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh now, you still got the match issue.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta you got a blood type, you gotta there's just a lot of things that have to line up.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: So we get a call from the middle person, and I and again, and forgive me, I'm not giving money details because I just I just don't want to dishonor anybody.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: We get a call, you know, you still need lungs, and I said, Yeah, sure do.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Tells me a little bit.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, if I'm honest, and the person who's who I'm referring to, please forgive me for assuming this.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought, I'm not sure she understands.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot that goes into those lungs matching.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, you know, I'm really, really this is initially.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really, really happy she thought of me, but I'm not gonna get all excited yet, because I don't know where they're at in the process.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the next day, I think it was, I get another call, and it's the person who's passed, sibling.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, this is interesting.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do you need lungs?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yes, ma'am, I I need them desperately.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm still thinking, where where where are we in the process here?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: And probably a little what what do you call it?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Self-defense, not let myself get too excited yet.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I could tell this person was very, very sincere.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and she said, We want these lungs to go to someone that's that's gonna do something with their life.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh kind of.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: That won't that's not her exact words.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, okay, all right, this is interesting.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Then I get a call from uh uh uh organ procurement company.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: So the law the short of it is we start swapping the appropriate details.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: What hospital am I engaged with?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh do I have the proper ID numbers?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, we are ready to like start crunching numbers on is this gonna work?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm still thinking, like, have they matched us?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Have they like, what in the world is going on?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: She says, we're gonna contact Medic University and get the ball rolling.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So the next day, we're driving to John's Island, like I said, phone rings.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Is this you know Chip Judd?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh this is so-and-so from Medic University, and I said, Okay And uh she very brightly says we have lungs for you.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I was stunned for a second.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Okay, you mean you've got s some possible She said, No, we have uh lungs that match you.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: And Coley and I, of course, go crazy.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: And um I mean I don't know what the chances are mathematically of a loving, sincere, grief-stricken family saying, I want him to get these lungs, and they match.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know the mathematical statistics of that, but I know they're not they're not big.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: We could put some nerd like Jack Hoy on that assignment to figure it out.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: So sure enough, we uh went home, threw a bag, well, we already had them kind of thrown together, had surgery the next day around one o'clock.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that that is quite a story.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was not expecting that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's really a little bit more amazing because of some details I had to leave out.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And again, the family, I I I cannot express how grateful I am.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's this weekend or not, I I really look forward to connecting and I I like to think thoughts of eternity and the special connection that you may have with that dude as a friend, you know.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I kind of foresee the new kingdom.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: We know who we were and who we are, you know, we're not oblivious to life on this earth.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um well I had a question that was kind of some theological speculating that I don't uh uh now thinking about it, I don't find appropriate at this timing.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let me say something about that, Joey.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: You asked me earlier what kind of learnings and things of that sort.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, I didn't feel good enough to really process for a while before surgery because of my breathing had gotten so challenging.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know if people realize, but I couldn't get up and walk around my condo without having a tank of oxygen.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was getting bad.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, then after surgery, but here's my thing to where you were going there.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do I think it's gonna like reroute my spirit my spiritual perspective of things?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: But it is gonna fuel some of the stuff you already know I have a little bit off-center views on.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be fun.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big Jordan Peterson fan, and I'm actually doing a course he did on Nietzsche or Nietzsche, however you say his name.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, most people would have a very dim view of him.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's up with that, man?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm kidding.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: He's been misrepresented.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he's famous for saying God is dead.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's not what he meant.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: He meant we've killed the only source of truth and stability we had, and that's why things have gone to, you know, where?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because we threw out our foundation of reality.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: He really didn't do what many people say that he did.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, he might have done the exact opposite.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't a lot of people consider him a nihilist?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, probably.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: And he probably was.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a phrase that Jordan used that Nietzsche philosophized with a hammer.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And what he said was basically, if you don't smash the foundations, you're not really changing anything.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's some pretty close to foundational beliefs the church operates under that are just not helpful.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we won't get into it right now, but we we will later.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this has fueled that in me.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: That we gotta do better, man.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we gotta do better.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel almost like uh a reboot has happened with your zeal for ministry?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like pick pick that wording apart.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Does it feel like a reboot of excitement?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna answer it in kind of a weird way.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably one of my biggest fears because I don't want my life to get out of control again.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that's been great about even before surgery is it made me stationary, it made me have to stop.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: I love thinking, I love reading.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, there were probably let's just say a month that I couldn't really do either.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: I was shaking so bad I couldn't read.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine that, Joey.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was shaking so bad I couldn't even read.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was crazy.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have laughed unless you kind of opened the door for me to laugh.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, really.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I couldn't think either because I'd I I'd have a thought and I just couldn't follow it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: But like I said, this weekend I feel like I turned a corner.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: I feel more like myself, and I can feel that excitement of thinking, dreaming again, coming up with some ideas and all.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want to I want to manage it better.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want to do what God saved me to do, and I could almost say saved me again to do.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And Colleen and I talk a lot about it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's a pace we we're gonna strive for.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: We want a mix of family, fun, depth in our spirituality, breadth of impact, but we want to balance better.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be a nice person.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I know most people think I am, but I'm not always.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: I can be impatient, the aid in me can come out in ways that it's just like as soon as it's happening and over, I'm like, dude, where was Jesus in that, man?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: I want to have a careful re-entry.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like some wisdom.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: I really want to do what God wants me to do, but I want it I want it to look as much like Jesus as possible.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, man, I love you.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know you never that.