Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 351 - Still D.R.E.

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 351 - Still D.R.E. · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: M hm hmmm. Been eating cheeseburgers.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Everything is going to hail down here in Ductor. He
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is not to bees and jobs chokepeas and the trimble.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Bee Babe and t Beats and Joby Rock contenjob Brady.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: And Timms and Joby's jobs.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: And then tumble Bee Ba and trimmer beats and chobes Frock, Cony,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: job Baddy.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Charlie. Color is set in and.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: Five cha cha.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Tell me nothing?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Five time to.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Set up show kill we.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: And here we go. It's right, Joe, what's up? Everybody?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number three hundred and fifty one of
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the Lone Gumbing Podcast. Sorry, I've got this uh doctor
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Dre song on my head.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: We would play it if we didn't get.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Copyrighted, Yes, we would, long beachingle would.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: It's so good, great song and a fantastic title. Plady
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: by you by the way.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I try.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna be talking about uh the d are
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: this evening? The director the directory O Revolution is Studion
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Dello whatever oh, otherwise known as the d r E.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is the over under of how many times
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: we were gonna butcher that?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the only one, because I ain't gonna say
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: it again.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: That I was gonna I was trying to trick you,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: because I'm not gonna say it either.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: However, henceforth be known as the d r E Yes, yes,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, I was gonna I was gonna name the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: episode Beatings by Dre instead of like beats by Drake.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: But uh, I went ahead and decided to go with
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the other one though. First, So Joe, go ahead and
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: welcome to everybody in if you will please, sir, of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: course I.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Would love to if I can get my mouse working.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Uh whoo's eye waiting to be acknowledged here.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have tiny answer one's ready one of the first.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Mister Jack Taylor, how are you, sir? And of course
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: mister Paul Cummings as well. Welcome to the evening, sir
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Sally of course standing up late across the pond, and
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I mentioned this in the chat, Sally, I have some
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Joe's hockey highlights for you, but that is a segment,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: segment that has saved for members only on Wednesday. So
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: m hm, mister I know a little bit of a
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: teas well. Hey, you got you gotta hype the members only, right,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: mister Scott Edwards Viva Lone Government Podcast. Yes, sir, South
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: to West, how are you, sir? Mister big band Josh
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Aloha everybody?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: What's up joshy?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I guess that means he's in Hawaii?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Where is he?
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Not?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Just using aloha?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: He might be Hawaiian? You never know, he could be.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Mister slacker Dan, how are you? Howdy friends? How do
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: you do? Sir? Anthony Tripp? Morning? Everyone?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Good day sir. It's a morning where you're at, but
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: it ain't here in Australia. Yeah. Yeah, you know what
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I like to do, Rob the Future.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I have done this to you a few times. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: love to say morning, like when we meet up, like
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: a few minutes before the show. It throws everyone off.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I do it to a lot of people and they're like,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: it's not morning, and I'm like, obviously.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: But they don't get the troll.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But mister Roger, good evening everybody.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Apparently myam gets the troll. We beat this a bit.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: The pieces Moose Heaven. How are you, sir?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen you in a few weeks I think,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: or maybe.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Longer, but welcome, welcome back, sat.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Hey now t biz t Booze straight ada, Havannah, Yeah,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Havannah will come up a couple of times. Havana PSB obviously,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: how are you sir? Of course Trey if I haven't
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: already said his name, I don't.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Think I did about forgot about Trey.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: That is a good one, sir, That is a good one.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Uh pro valan from double Prova Wan, Yes, I continue
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: to uh mister Paul, how are you, Lenichi? And then
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the double B. Of course we could have convinced without
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the double B.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: You know, that's just how the man do you? Brandon? Yeah?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Sometimes Yeah, sounds an excuse, rob of why he's six
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: minutes later just saying.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: That will be the background. You know, he's here. That's
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: all that matters, all right, That is that, sir? Awesome. Well,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: for those of our member folks who hang out with
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: us on Wednesday night, you knew we kind of took
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a giant shite on Jefferson Morleys for his recent tweetings
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and claims and all of that stuff. Because once again, Joe,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the entire JFK research community was served up a giant
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: plate of nothing burgers. Again. Now, the reason I kind
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: of take this personally, Joe, is because you know, It
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: kind of makes the entire conspiracy side of the JFK
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: assassination research community look like idiots when our biggest mouthpiece
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: continues to fire off horseshit. Now, we gave him credit
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: where credit was due. Okay, you wanted these damn Joe
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Needy's files, and you finally got him. But he's making
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: claims that just are not there. And if you would
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: like any proof of that, go back and listen to
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Wednesday's show, or hey, head on over to Fred Liftin's
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: blog where he has about ten blog entries just tearing
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the man apart as only Fred Lifton can do. And
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: this is exactly what I'm talking about. He's serving it
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: up on a silver platter for the loan nutters to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: just feast on, beast on. Because while we do have
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the Joe needyes files, and while hey, now we can
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: prove that Howard was George Joe and needes Howard being
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the guy that the DRE was reporting to and writing
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: letters to and informing to, Okay, there is no definitive
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: link between Oswald and the DRE. Before Oswald does anything,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I believe Joe the first time that we have Carlos
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Brignier reporting anything out of New Orleans. Two, the Miami
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: chapter of the DRE, which was the main one, the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: one that reported directly to Howard if you will, Okay,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Carlos Brigner is not reporting directly to the CIA. And
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: we had this little conversation on Wednesday where Carlos Brgnier
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: was much like Lee Harvey Oswald in the FPCC. Okay,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: he's the only delegate of the DRE in New Orleans. Okay.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: You have to remember their headquarters, their main branch is Miami.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: After they were exiled from Cuba, right after Fidel Castro
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: kicked all these kicked all these people out. Many of
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: them left formed different groups, some stayed with the DRE.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, the CIA took a shine to
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the DRE and would use them as a propaganda group.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to read something here from a CIA
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: internal memo, Joe, Okay, just to explain to everybody exactly
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here, and I'll throw it up
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  Speaker 1: on the screen as well. The DRE was conceived, created
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and funded by the agency in September of nineteen sixty
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and terminated in December of sixty six. It was an
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: excuse Me outgrowth of the activist student group in Cuba,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: which fought against Batista and later against Castro. Many of
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the leaders came into exile around September of nineteen sixty
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and were subsequently trained and infiltrated into Cuba by the
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Agency in late sixty where they operated by obtaining intelligence
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: setting up action teams up through the Bay of Pagan's invasion.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: While the DRE was initially set up as a psychological
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: warfare outfit, the organization was given a large amount of
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  Speaker 1: paramilitary aid in funds and material. After the Bay of Pigs,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the DRE engaged in independent military actions, which declined at
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: agency direction and in because of a reduction in funds.
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  Speaker 1: From late nineteen sixty two until termination of the group
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, members were used as political action
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  Speaker 1: agents for publishing propaganda which were sent throughout the hemisphere.
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  Speaker 1: They attended international student meetings at agency direction and produced
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  Speaker 1: radio programs and special propaganda campaigns. After the cutback and
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  Speaker 1: military operations, many of the best DRE members relocated in
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  Speaker 1: other areas. At present, there are delegations in most Latin
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  Speaker 1: American countries which have maintained some contact with various agency
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  Speaker 1: stations over the years. Although the DRE is no longer
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  Speaker 1: very active, during the organization's six year period of active existence,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: personnel were in contact with several jam wave staffers, II
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  Speaker 1: Howard and outside contract agents. However, from January sixty five
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  Speaker 1: through December of sixty six, contact with DRA personnel was
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  Speaker 1: limited to only two agents, Juan Manuel Salvat with Joe
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: will get into a little more later. He was the
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  Speaker 1: current DRE Secretary General who is now operating a bookstore
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  Speaker 1: in Miami, Florida, and also Fernando Garcia Chaconne, who was
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: relocated to l Salvador. Now, all this was released Joe
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  Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety eight by the CIA. This is
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  Speaker 1: what we call old news. And again, at the time,
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  Speaker 1: the DRE was receiving up to twenty five thousand dollars
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  Speaker 1: a month to fund their propaganda campaigns and conduct their
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  Speaker 1: little raids into Cuba. Right now, I want to talk
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  Speaker 1: about one of the leaders of the DRI, a guy
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: by the name of Louis Fernandez Roca, Yes, who Morley
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  Speaker 1: did manage to interview, I believe, back in the nineties,
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  Speaker 1: and he told Morley that his contact at the CIA
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  Speaker 1: was a man named Howard. Didn't know his last name.
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  Speaker 1: Howard spoke confidently with a New York accident and accent,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: sorry and more an ornate pinky ring. In Fernandez Roca's view,
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  Speaker 1: he compared favorably with the DRI's previous handler, Ross Krozier,
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  Speaker 1: who we'll get into more here a little bit. He
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: was a great human being, but he was a sergeant.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Rocus says. When I was dealing with this guy Howard,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I was talking to a colonel, all right, which means
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: this guy had a military backstop, if you will, false identity.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And I believe he was outed as Howard Gebler. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: we talked Wednesday night about a real life Howard Gibler,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: who looks a whole hell of a lot like George
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: jo and Edes, and who got put in a Haitian
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: prison in nineteen sixty five before he was rescued by
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a adventure very adventuresome female pilot. Now we talked also
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Wednesday night about was it sixty four or sixty five,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: sixty five or sixty six, something like that. I am yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Mary Haverstick, the woman who wrote the book about Jerry
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Cobb June Cobb, and how they kind of shared an identities,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: either wittingly or unwittingly. I don't know. I have not
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: read the book yet. I do have it.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: It's coming maybe a future JFK TLG book review.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But she posits, you know that possibly, much like Jerry
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: and June Cobb had this weird identity thing going on
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and both of them being used by the CIA, that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: possibly Howard, this Howard Gebler guy is a real guy, right,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and his identity was used by George Joannedes Jesus, Joe,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: what you doing? Sorry you disappeared, Joe. Your camera's off.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to change my lighting because I was
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: getting some reflection. Oh okay, and I had to do
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: it my head's phones and so sorry about that story.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So they would meet this Fernandez Roca would meet Howard
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: anywhere from three times a week to once every two weeks,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just depends on how often he had something to tell him.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: And they used to have a couple of coffee at
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: a Hojo's that's a Howard Johnson's Northern Folk down on
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the US one. Yes, So there's lots of examples of
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: letters that were written to Howard by various members of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the dre out of Miami informing them about certain things
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: right now, apparently, and I don't I don't know if
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: if I have it, I think I do, Joe, But yeah, okay,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So apparently Carlos Brignier wrote this on August twenty first, okay,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and it's titled press relief. I think he means press release. Now.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he sent this to the headquarters
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: or if he released this to the press in New Orleans.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Don't have that information because it's just a press release,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: press relief. But the DRI did release this, did they?
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Did I say that?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: No, I was saying, whether it's the main office or
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: him himself.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Well, we have no proof that anybody but bringing A
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: released this by himself, Okay, because it is signed by him.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, it's not signed you know, the DRE
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Right. No.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And then this is the document I've always heard, you know,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: heard about about the Cubans telling people to write their
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: congress people about you know, the Marxist Lee R. Vey
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Oswald before the assassination. This is that document, press release.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is it. But again, I don't know
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: if this was sent to Miami. I don't know, because
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: once we get We don't have anything official, per se
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: from the DRE itself until December twenty third of nineteen
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: sixty three, when they released let's see this paper, the
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Trincherta Extra Extra read all about it. President of the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: USA assassinated, Sir.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: That this was released on November twenty third. No, am
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I wrong about that?
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I just said, Joe, Oh, I.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Thought you said December. I'm sorry, I must hurt you. Sorry,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: that is my fault.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The day after the assassination, Yes, the DRE, not
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Carlos Brigner, but the DRE out of Miami, okay, released
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this little extra edition of their Tinchera newsletter, okay, and basically, hey,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the president has been assassinated. Yeah, no shit, the presumed assassins,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and you see who they are up there, yes, Lee,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald and Fidel ca. Now, of course, Carlos Brignier
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: would go on to write a couple of books and
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: do a lot of talks on the road for the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: extreme right wing organizations like the John Birch Society and
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: implicate Fidel Castro as being behind the assassination and puppeteering
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Oswald to pull it off. And he has stood by
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: this theory all these years.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: A friend to the end, Joe, Yeah, I mean and
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: it and all the Cuban exiles have have maintained this
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: their whole lives. We can go down Donald list.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, a lot of newspaper articles that came out
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: on the twenty second about Oswald and even early the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: next day, contained a lot of information about Oswald's past
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that was gleaned from what he did in August of
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three in New Orleans. Again, he was on
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the radio, he was on the television. You know. As
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: soon as he got arrested for this, Bill Stuckey and
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the mother the other dudes were sending all kinds of
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: information to the FBI, CIA, whoever and letting them know
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: this guy's pro Castro leanings, pro Communists, Marxist leanings, you know,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the Union. Yeah, his background, former marine, all the whole
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: nine yards, you know, the perfect setup narrative before it
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was changed to He's just a lone nut right the
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: next day, but on Friday, after he's arrested, all this
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: inform is coming out very late. It's coming in fast
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and furious and starting to appear in various extra editions
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: of newspapers all across the country and world in fact,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: right very quickly. Yes. Now what's interesting is the DRE
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: also sent a copy of the Oswald interview that Brigia
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: did with Oswald on the radio or the TV. I'm
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: not exactly sure which, m hm. As you can see
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: it here, it just says from the Dr Doctor Dre
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: to Howard and it's magnetic Scott's magnetic tapes. Yeah, but
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: we don't know when they sent it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I actually believe I've read that it was the day.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Of the twenty second, so maybe so. I mean, you
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: would think that they would have sent it if they
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: thought it was important. After the fractice, after the you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the court hearing, and after debate with Oswald, you'd think
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Carlos would obtain some of this and send it to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the DRI then and not wait, yeah.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Just to interrupt you, Rob. According to what Jane Romans
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: said by Jefferson Mortley, Joe and Edes receives tape of
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Oswald on November twenty second, sixty three. Joe and Edes
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: learns that his assets and the Cuban student director at
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: DRAI had collected inte intelligence on Lee Harvey Oswalt, accused
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: killer of Kennedy.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so they didn't send it until November twenty second.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Right, if you believe that he didn't know John Edes
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: didn't know about oswaldt before then, which I'm not sure
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I believe.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Well, we have no proof of that. That's this whole thing, right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: We talked about the golden thread that that that Morley
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: has been pulling on for all these years, and it
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: just keeps unraveling. We have no sweater on the other
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: end here. Yeah. Now, I wanted to bring up too,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: some of the folks that are bolstering and supporting Jefferson
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Morley and all this.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh and and you are right there. There
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: is no proof that he Joan Edie knew of Oswald
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: before November twenty second. But I was just saying, I
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: find it hard to believe that somehow he didn't get
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: word of this. That's what I would say.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you and you and Jefferson Morley can keep on
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: believe daydream, believe in there, buddy, until you got right now.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I like Matt Crumpton. We guessed on the show. We've
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: been on his show. So this is nothing personal towards Matt.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: But if you read his tweet, here very carefully. That
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: supports Jefferson Morley. Okay, it says the alternative to believing
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: this is a big deal, it's believing the CIA has
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: happened to assign a guy as liaison to an investigation
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: into the JFK assassination who was the same guy who
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: ran an op with Carlos Brignier that interacted with Oswald.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: What a small world. Sorry, I don't think it's all
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: a coincidence. Now, I'm a word smith, Joseph, and you are.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: You must pick and choose your words very carefully when
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you're talking about this case. There is absolutely no proof
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: whatsoever that George Joeynedes ran any kind of an op
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: with Carlos Brgner. Right or wrong, Joe.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Technically us technically you're correct, Yes, Joannes ran operations with
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the DRE. We have no evidence he ran anything would
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: bring ye.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Am I wrong. No, you're right. Okay, you just said
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: it backwards, but that's I usually do.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, thank you for a clire.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you have to be very careful how you
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: word things, because when you are a mouthpiece for the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: conspiracy side of things, and you have a podcast like
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: we do, you have to be very specific in what
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you say. There's absolutely for him to definitively sit here
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: and say that Joe and Need he's ran an up
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: with Carlos Brignier.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Uh is.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Irresponsible, I'll say, or he's misinformed. But again, this is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: how these things get compiled into everybody losing their minds
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to think that this is something when it's nothing. It's nothing.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: It's a whole lot of nothing. Yeah. Now now we
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: know his name was Howard Cool. He had another aka
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Walter Newby Cool.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think we already knew for a long time
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: that that Howard was John Edies. We just didn't know.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Gelbler right, and we didn't know with a one hundred
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: percent certainty. It was thought that he was right.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the words amount of thus.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: But that we have the documents to actually prove it now.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: But the documents don't prove anything between the DRE and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Oswald or Joe and Edie's running anything. If to me,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: if Oswald was doing anything for any agency in New Orleans,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: it was more than likely for the FBI I doing
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: like a counter intelligence program, right, yeah, because the CIA
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: would not use Oswald to infiltrate one of their own
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: personally funded organizations. Okay, Remember Carlos Brigner is the only
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: delegate of the DRE in New Orleans. Now, I did
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: come across something that these johomies put out there in
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: New Orleans. They put put together a pamphlet, Joe, will
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the USA be next Cuba Betrayed? Okay? This is a
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Carlos Brignier special that he printed up and had published. Right.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: The reason we know that is because on the back
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: of the pamphlet there's this and it's the first time
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that I've ever seen anyone else in New Orleans associated
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: with the d r E in New Orleans. Check this out,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: BAM published by Cuban student director at New Orleans Delegation
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: PO Box two five oh X, New Orleans, Louisiana, doctor
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Carlos Brignier, Delegate, Celso Hernandez Secretary and Miguel Aguado Cruz.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: The cruise is not on here, but that's who it is,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: is the treasurer.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Hm.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Hmm, interesting, isn't it, Joe? Yeah, because huh what was
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: this published? Steve Well? I have no idea, uh, but
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: these are the three scuffuses who were in the street
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: fracus with Oswald on Canal Street the exact three yet doctor,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: doctor Carlos Brigner is the only delegate. You have Acelso
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: as a secretary and Miguel as a treasurer, and the
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: only thing that I could find that is bringing money
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: into this thing. Four Carlos bringing a is You can
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: order these pamphlets from him, you know, for a dollar,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: five dollars, ten dollars, depending on how many you would like.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, hashtag a grift.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Hashtag a grift. Now I find it interesting, Joe, and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I was trying to remember what the hell was Oswald's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: PO box in New Orleans. I didn't really have time
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: to look it up, and maybe somebody might know off
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: the top of their head.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know at the top of my head.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't either, but I thought it might be
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: interesting to see how close they were together. Yeah, not
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: that it matters.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: We have some slews in the chick that could do
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: that quickly.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So very interesting that they're running this anti Castro
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: group with no real members other than themselves, much like
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Oswald is running an anti or procast group with no
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: real members and a fictitious secretary. Right, Yeah, very true. Now,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the name Hernandez pops up in various places along the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: way for all this stuff, and maybe that's for another
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: show to follow that thread down the highway. But Joe,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: if you'll give us some background on some of these
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: other players in the DRE and also who predecessed or
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: predecessed Howard Giebler a k. George Joannes as the handler
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and what what initiated the change over from Ross Krozer
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: to George Johann's ak Howard for the DRE at a
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: very critical time. And we'll take a closer look at
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: some of these some of these guys associated with the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Miami chapter of the d R.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: E Yes, So, like you mentioned, let's start with Ross Krozer.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Who James uh says his PO box is three hundred
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: and sixty one, like three zero zero six one, Thank you, James.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: What was that three zero six five?
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Three zero zero six one? Oh? Or no that that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: po box was twenty six oh five? Oh kay? So
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: they were way way way far apart. What's bond Duke?
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I like your thinking there though, Elaine Whitman, what's up body? Hey?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, we had a couple more people come
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: in turnhorse, what's up buddy?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Knock one?
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Time, John Nolan, Timothy Ryan and miss if I miss
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: anyone else psychologist hearing so thankfully friend of the show Carlines.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Savastano has a really good summary of Roschkrozer from his
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Two Princes and a King website.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Ross was born during.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Nineteen twenty two and in his youth was educated in
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: the Illinois city of de Kalb, probably butchered that the
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: cow He enlisted with the United States Air Force amidst
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty and supported its military counter intelligence efforts. Krozer
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: became Chief of Section for the Caribbean Air Command political
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: analysis efforts, but as decade was ending, he subsequently departed
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the Air Force. In the course of nineteen forty nine,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Ross was a contract agent for the agency and four
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: years later was managing projects to infiltrate the Cuban Communist Party.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Amid the same period, he was granted clearance for use
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: in agency operations PB success targeting Guatemala's political leadership. Amongst
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four, Ross created a spy network inside the
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: University of Havana, given the cryptonism am fardc Fhodarch. He
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: subsequently assisted several Clandestline Agency projects in South American countries
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: and Cuba. In the course of nineteen fifty eight, he
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: was assisting in Mexico City Station projects and further attacked
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Communist aligned targets, and was sent by the Havana Station
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: the same year to meet and gather intelligence on Fidel
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Castro and his revolutionary forces. Amidst nineteen sixty one, Ross
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: was assigned to the Miami Station and was a case
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: officer for the DRI I'm going to say it wrong.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: The Dre Cubans Exile Group was supported by the agency
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: to further anti Castro operations that included propaganda, sabotage, and
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: nearly any illegal project which reduced the Castro's regime's power.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Krazer's agency contract was terminated in the fall of nineteen
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: sixty three, following internal comments of overly emotional behavior and
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: related documents that he was employed by US Posal Service
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a year after being dismissed by the CIA, So he
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: became a mailman rob.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: As one does after they leave the CIA.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And you know, I have some documents and a really
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: good story coming up that I think might lend credence
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to why he was relieved from the CIA, or or
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: contract was terminated. I guess this is the right term
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: where it's matter and I'll come back to that. So
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: one Manual Salvat, also.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Known as the Cuban Jim Dugenio. I'm sorry, did I
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: say that out loud?
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because I'm looking for pictures of these
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: guys and I know that's him in his later life.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: On the on the far right, I'm looking right in
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the middle. Damn, that does.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Look like him.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: And on the left picture, I think he's much younger
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: there with the Cuban flag above him, and I couldn't
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: verify that's him, but I kind of looked at all
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: three and was.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it looks like he likes so yes, yeah, yes,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: so he.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Juan Manuel Salvat was a Cuban activist and dissident who
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: played a significant role in the anti Castro movement as
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: a co founder of the DRE. He was born in
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: La Grande Las Villias, Cuba. He studied at a Jesuit
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: school and later at the University of Havana, which he
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: became the secretary General of the Federational and the FEU
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: some other student group in fifty nine. During this time,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: he published several university newspapers and became involved in anti
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: communist activities. And we're going to see a trend here
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: with the propaganda right with whether it's Joe and EIDs
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: or Salvat who ended up creating his own publishing company
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: after In nineteen sixty, he co founded the Dire at
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: the University of Favana with other students included including a
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: couple other Skafuzas to oppose Fidel Castro's growing Communist influence.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: The group protested the visit of the Soviet diplomat in
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty, which led to their expulsion from the university.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Facing repression including beatings, arrests, and expulsion, Salvat went into
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: hiding for three weeks before seeking asylum. So then he
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: goes to the United States for exile in nineteen sixty,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: arrived in Miami in June of nineteen sixty, helped establish
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: the Dre in exile, which became a prominent anti Castural organization.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Known for his militant activities and ties to the CIA,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: and he conducted sabotaged propaganda campaigns and notable raid on
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: the head Vana Hotel on a Havana hotel in nineteen
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: August nineteen sixty two, so blah blah blah, all this stuff.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: He loved the DR.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty six after the DR disbanded.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And he had to stand on the back of the
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: boat so that you know, they can get over all
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the waves the way.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: But his contributions to the DR and his later cultural
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: efforts made him a significant figure in the Cuban exile community.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: So yes, now we're going to go to Luis Fernandez Rocca.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: He was a big sing in D in the DRE. Two.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: He was and I would argue maybe the biggest BSD
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and I'll explain that in a minute.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: But he.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Was a key figure in the DRE, prominent leader during
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: the early nineteen sixties. He was the secretary general by
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. Fernandez Roca was a central figure. He
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: was receiving, He was the one that was actually receiving
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: rob the twenty five dollars monthly and distributing, yes, and
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: distributing it, which I mean, when you have the money,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: you have the power, that's right, and you're distributing it, right.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: And I couldn't find a picture of him because he
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: kind of like disappeared in later life if you will,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: as in there at least there's no pictures.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: On him on Google, but on Rocco Fella Records.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: That would be great. So it's an appropriate joke. So Rob,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a lot about on this show
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: the process, a lot of shit that's true and a
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: lot of nonsense. But among the not nonsense is we've
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: talked about how there's a process to how documents are
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: created and how there's a flow of documents. Right, Like,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: for example, something comes out in the news, someone complains,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Slash makes an inquiry. Then you know, the the agency,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: whether it's a chief of station or a special agent
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: in charge, you know, gets the ship flows downhill, gets
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: the memo and they and they get asked what's going
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: on here? And then they have to get back to
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the boss with an explanation of what's going on here,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and then the boss will go back to the initual
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: initial originator of the request and to give a report. Right,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And you could kind of track that whole flow of documents.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Right real quick, Joe, before we get too far into this, sure,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I believe Josh was that asking about the DRE being
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: a CIA organization from the get go, Well, kind of
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: they were actually formed in nineteen thirty four, which predates
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the inception of the CIA. They were active for a
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: couple of years, then went away. They came back again
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four for a couple of years, and
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: then went away again, and the CIA kind of co
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: opted them back into existence in nineteen sixty with a
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: lot of support from Cubans because, of course, you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: university age students are the most active politically, you know,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: so of course these are going to be the people
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: you're going to focus on the minds you want to change.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: They're young, they're impressionable, they're willing to do crazy shit,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, they kind of I mean, they
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: just kind of brought it back for a third time.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it didn't take much prompting with the help
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: of you know, the University of Havana students. Right.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: It's because they had such a developed kind of stay
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: behind network of people of students in Havana, right, And
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: that's why the CIA recognized their value. Hey, these guys
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: have a lot of context of people in Cuba that
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: we could learn things from, gain intelligence from. That was
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: one of the main reasons.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and oh, who is at the University of Havana
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty Carlos Brignier was studying to be a lawyer,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: but somehow he ended up to be a doctor. Joe,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how that works. It's called cuban. Uh,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what keuban magic. Yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: And and fun fact about uh, Louis Verne's Roca. He's
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: also a doctor. He got kicked out in medical school
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: in Havana and then got uh later got his doctor's
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: degree in America.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: And from Friendly Chrismin Well.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: When I was searching on him, he had some lawsuits
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: about it was like a like delivered babies whatever that
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: doctor is called uh, And he had like a bunch
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: of lawsuits against him that came out, came up on
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: my searches.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised. Just let the nurses do most of the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: work here. I'll smack it on to day that's after
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: it coming out. Yeah, I need a sponge down here,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: M four steps. Yeah.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, salvat Roca, Bringier, they all kind of
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: originated from the University of Evana, right, See, so that's
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: kind of the common denominator there in terms of the
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: dere But I want to I want to look at
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: this timeline, Rob, I put this together today, So in
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: late nineteen sixty two, it's agreed upon. Cuban missile crisis
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: lasted from about October sixteenth to October twenty eighth of
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And allegedly the information about the Russian missiles
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: in Cuba came initially from sources from within the DRE,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: later confirmed by you two flyover photos. Yes. Yeah, so
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the DRE was essential in giving us the information first.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: That's why the CIA had no problem funding them to
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: the tune of twenty five grand a month, which is
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: a fuck pile of money in nineteen sixty Okay.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that we know about, right in that amount officially,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: So Kennedy kind of de escalates, right, and then November sixth,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: the November ninth, you have the two articles that come
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: out about missiles hidden in the Cuban.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Caves, also from the dr.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is the common theme here. Kenneth O'Donnell, special
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: advisor to the President. Kennedy sends a memo on that
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: same day. The second article comes out to the CIA
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: director John McComb asking what the hell is going on here?
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to show you that's a second November fifteenth, remember,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: ain't them for the record? Dick Helms as a meeting,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: he summons Lease Fernandez Rocup, I'm guessing to DC. They
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: didn't give the location definitely DC. And you can probably
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: assume since the memorandum happened on the fifteenth, that the
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: meeting was a couple of days before the fifteenth, right, So.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Immediately Dick Helms, after getting you know, so McComb gets
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: the the complaint from from O'Donnell, right, and he goes
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: and of course mccoon doesn't really know what's going on here,
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: so he then talked to Helms.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: He goes, what's going on here. Helm's immediately knowing that
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: it came from the DRA summons roc Up to DC.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: And then, by the way, you were going to have
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: a new contact who will report directly to me. And
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: that person was named Howard or Joe, Joe and Edes.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: So they got themselves into some shit here and I'm
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: gonna I have the whole documentary record. I think this
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: is the article on the sixth. It doesn't have a
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: date on it, but it was in the CIA document
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Exiles tell of Cuban missiles hidden in Cuba case, and
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: of course Kennedy, at this point, I just de escalated
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: the Cuban missile crisis, and here are these guys from
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: the d are trying to escalate it.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know who media contacts they used, but there
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: were some.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: This is the map that was attached to the article,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: which actually gives a little tells you where the missiles
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: are hidden in those caves. This is the one on
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: November ninth, underground bombers in Cuba. Right. Cuban refugee sources
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: said last night Soviet mad fighters and bombers were stored
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: in secret Russian built underground hangars, some with as many
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: as sixteen floors beneath the surface, at eleven strategic airbases
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: in Cuba's six preferences. The DRI issued a detailed report
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: on the eleven bases, which is said was brought here
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: by couriers from Cuba, which again they had a ton
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: of couriers and stay behind contacts in Cuba. So it's
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: not something to just dismiss right away. Here we go,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Kenneth O'Donnell letter Membrandum for director John McCombe. The President
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: has asked me to call this newspaper article to your attention,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: and he'd liked to have this situation looked into. Would
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: you be good enough to submit a report for me
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: for a referral to him on this subject? Many thanks, right,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: essentially calling Director McCone, what the hell is are you
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: guys doing.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Here, whereas Tanabaum will say John McCain, John.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: McCain, Oh yeah, that never gets old. So this is
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the kind of headliner the heading as I indicated in
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: my letter on fourteen November. So he responds five days
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: after the letter, I'm sending you additional information and response
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: to your request on nine November for comment on the
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: UPI article concerning quote underground bombers in Cuba attached as
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: a CIA memo assessing this report, the subject of secret
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: storage of military supplies and Cuba will continue to be
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: given the most careful study and analysis in the intelligence community.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So he's kind of saving face here, right, We're going
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: to do everything we can type of thing.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Go back to that real quick. Sure. I like howse
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: is signed and then typed John mccoone read above another
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: type John account. Yeah you didn't even bother to say it. No, no,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: it's hand Yeah, that is true. That's weird.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: That is weird. I mean because the president's pissed off
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: and is asking you to look into this and why
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: the organization you're funding is putting out things like this
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: When I just squashed nuclear war, you know what I mean,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: I could understand why you'd be upset at this, that
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: these things are coming out from your camp.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so he responds, very officially, We have no
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: evidence to confirm the reported presidence of Cuba of secret
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Russian built underground hangars at eleven strategic air bases. There
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: are two kinds of activity, however, which are underway and
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: which could possibly have led to the reports of underground hangers.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: One is the construction of covered aircraft reverence blah blah blah.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: The other is used of natural or man made caves.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: So they're kind of hedging their bets here. We know
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: that the Cubans, is the next page, have been using
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: caves for storing conventional military weapons for many years. History
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: just repeats itself with I ran these days, huh. But
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: there is no hard information linking the caves with the
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: concealment of Soviet missiles in Cuba. There have been, however,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: recent observations of Soviet trucks emerging from a cave near
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: one of the four Coastal Defense Cruise Missile sites.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: So, and they go on to discredit the story by
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: saying that they couldn't have had it there because laborers
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: have been working on their proper of underground installations since
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: February nineteen sixty ie, some months before the Soviet Union
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: in Cuba formally re established diplomatic relations. So they kind
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: of us like some technicality to get out of it. So,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: but before mister McCone responds to JFK, you have mister
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Dick Helms summoning Luis Fernandez Rocca aka kind of the
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: big swinging dick in the dri the one who's accepting
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: and distributing the money. Yeah, oh, I just saw this
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: time and place thirteen November nineteen sixty two. So O'Donnell
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: sends the message to mconne on ninth and four days later,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Rocca is summoned to DC.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: To mister Hill his office, Yes, to the principal's office.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And bro it's it's a great analogy just to the
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: principal's office because Rocca comes in like a student that's
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: apologizing trying not to get suspended.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to mention.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: I just want to mention two things before starting the
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: conversation with mister Elmes. I'm very sorry about the difficulties
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: which may have been caused by the Miami Herald newspaper incident. Again,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: just completely screwed. He desired, because that's where they're getting
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: all their money from. He desired to thank mister Helms
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: for his quote deference and express his greatest appreciation for
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: being given the opportunity to discuss their problem with mister Elmes.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Mister Helms replied that he fully understood and accepted the
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: explanation about the newspaper article and was happy to have
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to discuss the agency's relationship with mister Grope's group.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Of course, the dri number two.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: If you ever published some fucking shit like that without
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: our approval again, boy prob Yeah something you literally.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Just summarized what is in this document. Not joking. Mister
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Holmes stated he was familiar with the dre situation and
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: desired to work out a slightly different way of doing business.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: You realized there have been more ups and downs in
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: the relationship and that the agency was not lily white
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: and abiding by many of its commitments, but that many
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: of the changes were due to factors beyond the agency's control.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: He continued, there were no decisions as yet made by
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: the US government regarding the future of handling of the
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: cash problem. The primary items being considered at the present time,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: both in New York and Washington, were the removal of
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the missiles and bombers from Cuba and on sign's inspection.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: If a time comes when the DRE, this is Helms.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Time comes when the DRE feels their course of action
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: is no longer compatible with US policy. Mister Helms wanted
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: to make this point clear. The DRE should be frank
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: and honest, and so stated, AKA, don't go behind our back.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: He did not want to be devious about our relationship,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: but he wanted to develop the relationship as a quote
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: reasonable collaboration. This get's even better, mister Helms and Ford
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: broca he was changing the agency contact for the DRE
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: in Miami. He also stated the new contract contact would
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: be able to come to mister Helmes for any clarification
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: needed regarding the relationship.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: And this is exit Ross Krozer, enter Howard Gebler, Yes,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: and Joe.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, so they got in so much trouble right that
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: they help us had to personally assign Joe and Edes there,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: you know, someone he trusted. He literally is like, we
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: have to change things up up here. Just like a
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: sports team when you're losing, right, when you're zeroing six
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: to start the season, guess what the coach is getting fired.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: They're going in another direction.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Right, Joe needs down there, you know, with this other persona.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: And he was backstopped as a military officer, okay, And
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: he was keeping a tight, tight, tight eye on the Dre,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: meeting with him up to three times a week if necessary,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: to keep an eye on them and make sure that
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: they weren't doing anything stupid. Right.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: So, and that's a great point, Rob, because I'm gonna
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: go back to my point in saying that there's no
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: way Joe and Ned he's keeping a tight eye on
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: the Dior at this point would have not been aware
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: of their TV and radio shows with Oswalt. I know
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: it's not in the documents. I know it can't be proven.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I know other people are saying assuming that, but for me,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: it's hard to believe.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: That was my point. I don't think it's that hard
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: to believe. I mean, you gotta remember, Joe, they're focused
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: on what's going on in Cuba and where all these
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: guys are at, which is in Miami. Okay, they're not
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: worried about technically, worried about one delegate in New Orleans
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: or one delegate in Arizona or one delegate in California.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: You know that that stuff is just ancillary news that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: might come rolling in once in a blue moon. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: how important is it really? It doesn't directly affect what
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: we're doing here in Miami and with Cuba right here.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, No, listen, I completely understand your point. And you
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: know that's completely fine that we might disagree with.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying. Who gives a shit if you have
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: some idiot, one loan idiot in New Orleans being a
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: pro Castro supporter, right, but.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: You have to bring news, You have to bring yer
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: press release in August, you have them going on TV
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: and radio. Was Joanneedi so busy that he just looked
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: over that.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Possibly we don't know who bring bring you couldn't He
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: might not have even sent it to the Miami his
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: his people in Miami. We don't know.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying, but would he not get like work
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: if he was keeping such.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: An eye on it, right, like Field and I on
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: the guys in Miami and in Cuba, the network. The
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: only way he's going to know anything is if they
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: tell him, right, and it would have to be deemed
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: important enough for them to tell him. But how important
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: is it really that you have one screwball in New
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Orleans handing out leaflets on the street saying Viva Fidel.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean, listen, I can totally buy
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: into that because he was high up, you know, he
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: was like one of the top people at chant Wave,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: you know, so probably doing ten other things, twenty other
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: things more.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, one of the ways they were more focused
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: on what and worried about what was going on in Cuba,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: then what one jackass is doing in New Orleans. And
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: we have he wrote evidence whatsoever to support the fact
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: that the d R ever said anything to Howard about
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Oswald period into discussion.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't I don't disagree with
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: any of that. I think it's a good conversation and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: that we disagree a little bit, all good.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: You know, Next Thursday you can catch Joe as the
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: new co host of JFK Facts with Jefferson Morland.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Come on, no, no, but I'm saying because he was
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: put put in there specifically to keep an eye on
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: these skufusas right at the DRI, these people at the
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: DR in Miami.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Right. But even if Joe and Ed's ever went to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: New Orleans, Yeah, I have no idea ever did he
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: ever meet bring a ever?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: No documentation on it, So we can't assume.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: So, no, we can't.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So anyways, it's a good food for thought, you know.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good nothing burger. Eat it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: All right, let me continue here. As for a future
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: operational program for the DRE, mister Helms stated that presently
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: presently did not know what this could would be. Mister
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Rocus stated that, in all honesty, he could not guarantee
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: that under all circumstances, the DRE would be able to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: continue the relationship with the CIA, for a change in
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: US policy towards coexistence with Cuba would differ from what
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the DRA believes is a duty to their country, and he,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: as a Secretary General Roca to his men, this would
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: mean a break in our relationship, as they felt they
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: must continue fighting Castro in any form possible. So here
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: they are in this memo acknowledging the differences they have,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: and and Broca is even saying to Helms like, yo,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: if you guys like want to coos this with Cuba,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: like we're out. You know that's like the bro translation.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean that's that's the gist of it, right.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: He did give mister Helmes his word of honor. He
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: would inform his contact with mister Helmes when the deer
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: he felt they could no longer cooperate with the agency
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: because of the difference in what they believed.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: And we don't even know what Helms is even telling
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: his diet. Is he telling him about the Castro plots, like, Hey,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: just chill out, don't worry, we're handling Castro. We've got
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: things in the works. We're going to take care of
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: this bastard. Don't you worry. You'll get your country back? Yeah?
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, probably not. I mean that shit's compartmentalized up the s,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Why would Helms? I mean,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: he could say something like you just said, like we're
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: working on things, right, but he's not going to give
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: them specific plans. But you know, Rocca's playing hardball.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Too here.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: And and I think that's that's what a lot of
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: the Cuban exile communities help.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Rocan knows that we that we need him and his
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: intelligence as much as you know, vice versa, that they
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: need us because take care Castro yes, because making a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: do it on their own right, right, A.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Good point, That's a really good point. Roccas stated claimed
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: that they were anxious to cooperate with the agency and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: it was foolish to think without agency support they could
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: continue their present level of activity. Roccan, in fact, stated
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: that eighty to ninety percent of their activity would cease
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: if agency funds were discontinued. This would be suicide. The
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: memo goes on to say, and according to Roca, this
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: he did not want. Provided he did not want and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: thought as satisfactory arrangement could be reached. So, you know,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: this makes a lot of sense to me. Just people
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: that are really strong in their beliefs, just holding their ground,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: both needing each other, right. And I think the memo
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: was kind of saying that, So.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Let's go to a quick joy. Yeah. Sure, Sally says,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: how many people actually listen to the show? Was it
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: a big station? I think people make Oswald to be
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: way more than what he was. And what you're talking
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: about is, of course the show Latin listening post. It
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: was literally a five minute show on some raggedy as
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: AM radio station. It was a thirty some minute interview
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: that was cut down into five minutes. Yeah, and how
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: many people actually listen to this? Probably not many.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you scroll through your am radio dial, you'll
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: see how much bullshit is there.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, there's a bunch of bullshit there. Yeah. And again,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: how many people actually listened or the ones that did,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: who cared? You know, like I don't know. Oh, the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: double B comes through boom once again. Oh, thank you, sir,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: much of lies. We appreciate it, Yes, sir, we do.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: And I guess I've been mispronouncing Roca. That's road Shaw,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: not surprisingly that I.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: It's a hard ch James mhm Roach. Thank you so
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like Huma, right, Joe Homa Huma home you Ah.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't know how to pronounce it if I didn't
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: have a girlfriend there in the past. Yeah, you've heard
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: it all before. I like to I like to bring
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: By the way, speaking of girlfriends, Erica came to the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: game last night and I was not happy about my
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: level of contact.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. She exclaimed. He doesn't even touch me this
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: much at home. What did you say, I don't.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: She just doesn't want me to be like one hundred
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: cte Joe.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: You know, hey, Joe, every once in a while, you
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: got a slammer against the boards.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: If you know what I'm saying, all right, I'm gonna
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: continue in this memo. Regarding the new contact, mister Helms
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: stated he wanted to select a man who would and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: could maintain the collaboration he had outlined and would be
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: helpful and of assistance to the DRI. He also stated
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: that this contact would be responsible to him for the relationship.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Mister Rocha stated he wanted to be the point of
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: contact in the DRI and if in his absence, either
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Manuel Salvat or Jose Lasa would be the alternate points
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: of contact. Mister Helms added there was one other point
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: of utmost important, and this is where we get into
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: what you talked about before, Rope, and that was that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: if in the future that DRI desired, desired or wanted
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: to have a press conference or desire to appear on
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: TV quote, let us know about it. End quote. Mister
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: Helms stated he didn't want to tie their hands, and
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: he intended to deal with them as responsible men. But quote,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: give us a fair warning end quote, as in, don't
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: do anything we don't give you permission to do, or
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: you're going to lose your money. It's kind of the translation.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: And they didn't stop. As we'll see, mister Helms did
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: not waste the dear wanted the dra to think we
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: desired to tell them what or they can or cannot do,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: but he felt it was in their interest to get
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: our reaction on such manners. Mister Helms added, you, mister Roacha,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: or a responsible man. I'm a responsible man. Let's do
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: business in a mature manner. Mister Roacha fully agreed. House
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: called him to DC Luis Fernandez Rocha and just completely
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: roasted him over these articles that we showed previously. Right,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: there's some other interpretation.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: Tony says, I thought it was worth a mention that
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: Cubans were banned from being FBI agents. The first Cuban
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: born agent was hired, not hired until nineteen eighty and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: interesting Joe that they sent him to New York City
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: to spy on Joe's extended family. The Italians.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is really interesting. They're kind of leveraging a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: past relationship right with Cubans and the mafia type of thing.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think interesting. The FBI didn't trust
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: Cubans until nineteen eighty. Yeah, I mean that is really interesting,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I actually have an interesting FBI documented in
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: a second. But we're going to fast forward here to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: the end of nineteen sixty two to September eleventh, nineteen
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: sixty three. And this is to the Chief the Special
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Affairs Staff from the Chief of Station jam wave Ted Chackley,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing at the time, in response to our query,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: a Dearie representative delivered the attacked reply, which we found
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: under separate cover, to Howard rob Yes from Fernando Garcia
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Chacon subject ten million dollars offering made by mister Louis
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Fernando's roacha for the death of Castro. So here roach
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: is getting in trouble again. It's September of nineteen sixty
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: three for allegedly offering a ten million dollars bounty on
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Castro's head as Kennedy's Kennedy is trying to make.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Peace and ten million dollars in nineteen sixty three was
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: a lot, a lot, a lot of money.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like one hundred millions. Jesus, A magazine of
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: dubious reputation.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: And invite all the rogues and marks from around the
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: world to sit to set off for Cuba.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: A magazine of dubious reputation recently published an article written
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: by a man supposedly called Luis Gutierrez, accompanied by a
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: document signed by our Secretary General Louise Roacha offering ten
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: million dollars reward for the death of Castro. Certainly, what
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: stated in this article is false. So this is the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: DR response to Howard to the CIA, mister Roch had
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: no connection with it or made such a deal. The
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: person that wrote this article is named like a former
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: member of the DR, mister Louis Gutierrez.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: Convenient, right, However, both names are common in Cuba, just
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: like John Smith in the US.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: John Martin. Yeah.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: But that's their response, the CIA, like, oh, it could
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: be not anyone, we don't know, right, Like anyone's named
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: Lewis Gutierrez.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: They're all good years Fernandez, Sanchez.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Fernandez, Yeah. So essentially they're saying this wasn't us, right,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: The d response to the ORCI. At the same time,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: we state that mister Lewis Gadires, for a member of
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: the Diary, has had nothing to do in this matter
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: since he has completely abandoned this type of activities. Lastly,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: we wish to state that is completely irresponsible for Louis
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Fernande's roots to offer ten million dollars since it is
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: by all well known that he does not have such
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: an amount of.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: No shit the CIA does.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: But again, Dury causing drama. Right, like we just detailed
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: in the end of nineteen sixty two with the missiles
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: in the Cuban caves, to this, to the Kennedy assassination,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: and you showed this earlier.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: You show this.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: This was a statement by the DRE which they actually
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: released on November twenty second, sixty three, but it was
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: included in the publication the day after, right, you showed this,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: You show that. So fast forward a little bit to
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four. This is an FBI document now, so
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: again no, really not really involved with the DRE, not
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: to my knowledge at.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Least suspicious of the DRE.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: More likely exactly on June twelfth, nineteen sixty four, mmt
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: ie A Cuban exile who was a member of the
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: DRE and Miami, Florida, advised that as of mid April
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: sixty four, the DRE suffered from factionalism growing out of
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: its plans for military action against Cuba. The factions were
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: represented by her named is Rojo, who supported infiltration and sabotage,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: and by Borja, who favored hit and run attacks against
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: the Cuban coast. According to m mt Ie, the document
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: of the Dominican Republic was the government of the Dominican
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Republic was disposed to make available to the DR a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: base in which the DR in the Dominican Republic from
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: which to operate against Cuba. Also was anticipated that the
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: Dominican Republic, which furnished the DRI, with some weapons and
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: possibly boats. MMT one stated that Israeldo Borja had been
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: able to influence DRI leader Juan Manuel.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Salvat and the Cuban Jim Dudino Yes Yes, which.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: He was able to obtain the necessary funds to repair
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: and equip the DR boats Juan Ing and Virgilio, which
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: are under Boorhaus control, whereas the faction headed by Hernandez
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Rojo was unable to get the same financial assistance from
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: the dri AS headed by Salvat. I wonder why again
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: ROACHA is distributing the funds. There are different factions within
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the DRE. Some people want to attack this way, some
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: people want to attack that way.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: And the naviies are getting restless, is what's happening. Yeah,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: especially in the wake of the assassination of President Kennedy.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, Yeah, exactly about as.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: A subject of Cuba suddenly seemed to disappear off everyone's
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: lips after.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: That, right, for some reason, right, right, and they're trying
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: to keep it in the news, you know, and like
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: a public attention. So but interesting, FBI has a Cuban
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: exile informant of the DRE telling them what's going on here, right,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: because of course the CIA would never share exact details
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: of the plans of what's going on. Right, Joe and
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Edes is not talking to Hoover in the special Agent
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: in charge of Miami right about this shit. But interesting
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: to see the interagency conflict that we frequently mentioned.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is what I'm saying. This, This is where
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Joe and Neede's attention would have been. He would have
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: been worried about what was going on in Cuba and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: worried about what was going on in Miami with the
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: dr itself, because the ship started to get out of
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: hand real quick after Kennedy is murdered. Yes, yep.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they weren't robbed. They weren't supposed to release
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: what they released about Oswalt right away. I believe Howard said,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: let me consult with Washington again back to you, and
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: they just released it anyway, their publication on the November
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: twenty third, So they're saying kind of screw the CIA
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: and what they think. We're going to try to take
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: advantage of this opportunity, right yep. And it goes back
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: to the conversation with Helms, like if you're going to
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: do anything, can you please let us know about it
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: type of thing. It's very consistent when you go through everything.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: It was very intriguing to me. Mmt one further advised
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: that as much as Luis Fernandez Roca was the General
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Secretary of the DRE, he was prevailed upon by those
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: DRA members who favored quote the fight from within Cuba
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: action to exert his influence against the military taxes planned
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: by Borja. However, Roca was unable to overrule Bora because
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Boraf is a member of the executive board of the
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: DRE and appeared to have one Manuel Salvatz, also a
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: member of these board, under his control. According to m
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: MT one, this situation within the DIRE was so divided
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: that Fernandez Rocca presented his resignation, whereupon Salvat became the
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: leader of the DRI Subsequent to the resignation of Roacha,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: Angel Hernandez Rojo can't make this up also presented his resignation,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: and this was followed by several others who had previously
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: been active members. So you have longtime members quitting over
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: internal disagreements, right, Roacha trying to do the fight from within,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: maybe the you know the students in Havana. Borja trying
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: to be like, screw it, let's do boat attacks and
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: just let's shell them with our till type of thing. Fascinating.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: MMT one advised that Borja has since taken over the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: military section of the Diary and as of June twelfth,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: sixty four, appeared ready to undertake some military action. June fifteen,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: sixty four, Roacha advised he had resigned his position as
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: Secretary General of the DRE. In the beginning of April
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: for purely personal reasons, primarily to study for an entrance
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: examination of the University of Miami Medical School. He said
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: he had no dispute with other leaders of the Diary
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: and in fact was in accord with plans of the
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Diary as fostered by Juan Manuel Salvat, now regarded as
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: the leader at Miami. And it kind of goes on
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: and more in the same Essentially Rocha said, I'm just
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: gonna go back and study to be a doctor again.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Screw this Cuban exileship. Right fast forward to sixty seven
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: memoranda for the record CIA document Possible dri animus towards
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy is my last slide rock. The memorandum makes
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: a record of recollection, recollection which has been brought up
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: brought to mind in recent weeks since my return from
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: Yugoslavia in late November sixty six. In spring sixty one,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: upon returning from Berlin, I was assigned to jam Wave.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: One of the cases on which I worked from then
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: until shortly before my reassignment to headquarters in late summer
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: sixty three concerned funding of overseas elements of the DRE
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: which had its main office in Miami. The case officer
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: for this group during this time to spring sixty one
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: was mister wash Krozer, since reassigned, I believe that that
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: it is this group the DRE which has been refused
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: referred to an investigations into the President's assassination as the
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Diary whose New Orleans representative is said to have had
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: contacts with Oswald. They're talking about bringing it. I have
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: assumed that since my time. Assume that since the time
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: I was transferred from Miami and scheduled for my next assignment,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: redacted chief of base officers better and more recently informed
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: than myself, had probably exhabited in detail all aspects of
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: the Dary involvement, in order to rule out any slight
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: possibility that compromises the CIA sponsorship of this organization might
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: in any way embarrass the agency. Recent news reports of
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: investigations centering in New Orleans talking about Garrison on the
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: assassination have once a brought to mind the concern I
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: felt in November of sixty three, by which time, however,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: I was far removed from current knowledge of the operation.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: I do retain a distinct recollection that Deire leadership, specifically
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Luis Fernandez Rocha, who I met several times, did hold
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: sentiments of chadrin and embitterment that President Kennedy had not
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: more forcefully pursued a quote liberation of Cuba. Whether or
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: not this animus, which could be discerned as occasional signs
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: of anger or the contempt or of discouragement, might have
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: been translated into a wish for revenge, may be better
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: known to other officers who dealted the group in the
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: summer of sixty three. And this is from Calvin Thomas,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: whose name was redacted.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Rob.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we've talked about the new documents and the
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: brackets a doctor. This is the twenty twenty five release,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: but he's pretty much saying, yeah, they had did not
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: like Kenemy Kennedy and would not have reacted well to
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: news that he was planning to coexist with the Castro regime.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Well, not necessarily the Castro regime, but more the Russians,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: you know, because there he's still at this time, these
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: Castro applots are still afoot, right, He's trying to have
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Dayton with the Russians, not necessarily Castro. Right. Yeah, and
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: again this with all this wild shit going on, you
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: can see why the CIA are playing the cover your
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: asking and deep sixing all this shit because they didn't
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: want news of this coming out. How they collected information
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: and intelligence well groups they are working with and funding
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: the propaganda techniques and all of this stuff. And so
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: you can see how because one of the CI groups
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: that they're funding, or i'm sorry, one of the anti
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Castro groups that they are funding, one of their delegates
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: had contact with somebody who killed the president a couple
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: months before the assassination. And not necessarily that it means
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: anything other than exactly what it means. There was contact,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: there was a scuffle, there were words. But if word
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: got out that the CIA was funding this organization, you
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: can imagine the backlash. You can imagine an outward suspicion,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: even though not necessarily anything had to have happened, or
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it was anything like overtly that they were
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: trying to trap the r v Oswald into something or
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: set him up to do something. It just it's just
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: one of those things that doesn't look good and they
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to have to explain. Yeah, added to the
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: list doesn't necessarily mean they were overtly culpable for the assassination,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean they were working with Oswald, you know, to
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: set him up for anything. All that necessarily means is
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: they had a working relationship with an anti Castro group
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: that was funded by the CIA, and one of their
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: delegates happened to run into Oswald in New Orleans. That's it.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: That's all we have proof of. But it's still a
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: difficult story to have to explain to people and to
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: have them understand exactly what the CIA was doing and
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: why they were doing it. That's my point.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, but you know, you could see how the
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: dre is causing drama throughout nineteen sixty two and right
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: after the assassination. Yeah, in nineteen sixty four and nineteen
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: sixty seven still or I mean, I mean that was
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: a that was the date of the document.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: The guy was like, again, they wanted the US government
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: to do something about Castro. It was in their best
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: interest that we do something about Castro, because they knew
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: no matter how many you know, shitty boats they sent
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: towards Cuba, it's not going to make a difference. They're
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: not going to make a difference and most likely going
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: to end up dead or in jail. Yeah, which they
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: weren't in any rush to do so.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and how would these people react, rob hypothetically if
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: they heard that Kennedy was in back channel negotiations with
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Castro in the fall of nineteen sixty three.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, by this time, too, we had outlawed
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: this shit with the Neutrality Act that specifically prohibited any missions,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: you know, leaving the United States shores for anything, you know,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: to attack Cuba. So really their only friend was the
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: CIA or our military. And if these people in the
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: DRA thought that they were meeting with someone from our
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: military with it, you know, the guy said he was
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: a sergeant, he was, you know, a military person, and
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: we have the documents that they use to get this,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: Howard Jebler's military backstop, So they thought they're dealing with
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: a member of our military. They might not even have
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: known he was CIA.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Who the hell knows, well, Roach, I would have known
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: being someone to but not everyone else, right, because he
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: was someone to helms his office. But yeah, I mean
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: there's all types of cover or ass shit going on,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: especially you know that here they are talking about setting
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: up bases in the Dominican Republic because you're not allowed
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: to launch attacks from the US, right, the FBI is
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: going after you. The CIA is kind of like has
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: like a no look, no doublesque policy.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: It's it's a mess, it really is.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: And Rocca may not have known before he was even
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: summoned to to d C that he was dealing with
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: the CIA.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: And because I came across from Helms as you know,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: this is what we are telling you to do, it
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: was more of a a lot of suggestions. Yes, you know,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: it's not a good look for us for you to
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: be saying all this ship. You know, he could have
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: thought he just got himself in trouble with the CIA,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily that he was he was actually
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: working for the CIA. We had no idea, right.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean Howard, it's not good trade craft
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: for Howard in theory to come out and say, hey,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I work.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: For this U.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: You know, because if he's appearing to them as a
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: military officer, he could have said, you could have met
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: with Rocca or wrote Roachoor whatever he can met with him,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: said look, you know, it's not a good look for
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: you to be saying, you know, coming out and saying
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff. In fact, I've been told that our CIA
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: wants to talk to you in person in d C.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: Here's your plane ticket, you know type of thing. Yeah,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: I would advise you to show up and be briefed.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you go into Helm's office, that's probably
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: not a good meeting. You're going to get your ass
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: handed to you. And I think that's what happened after
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: like I displayed with those doctors.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he got a good talking to and it didn't
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: necessarily have to come from Howard the military guy, you
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: know what I mean.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I just thought it was fascinating, just like
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: see that trail of documents and like how everything developed. Right,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: this is very consistent to what you know, we've talked.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: About a lot in the past. That's the real story, folks,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: not this made up horseshit. That's fantasy land, you know,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: stuff that that Morley is out here peddling as some
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: sort of giant revelation screaming from the hilltops that I've
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: told been telling y'all for twenty five years. George showed
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: is this, and George showing Needy is that? And it's
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of nothing, a whole lot of nothing
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: at least so far. Now, you know, I'm one to
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: give credit where credit is due. If any more things
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: come out to say otherwise, then I'll eat my hat
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: right here live want Almgoming podcast. But I don't think
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: I'll be eating anything except a couple of gummy.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: Bears and couple nothing burgers.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: A couple nothing burgers, maybe a twizzler or two here
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: or there. But uh yeah, I mean, the reality of
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: the story of what is going on is much more
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: interesting than supposing these magical connections between George Jo Needie
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: and Lee Harvey Oswolm. You can see why, given this
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: guy's background and what he was dealing with in terms
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: of the DRE and Cuba, that he would be called
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: out of retirement to run interference during the HSCA investigation,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: and not necessarily because they did anything nefarious, but because
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: this guy would have known exactly where not to step.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: That's true, and he got a metal for it and
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: died in nineteen ninety m and probably a star in Langley.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: Probably I think Roacha died in twenty twenty one.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of these Cuban exiles live a long time.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: How bet Salvat didn't didn't make it out of the seventies.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing congestive heart failure before the end of the
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: seventies from one too many cheeseburgers. But hey, who knows.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: He might have outlived us. All.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna ask your favorite question I see.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: Oh Lord, all right, Joe, you got anything else? That's
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: all right, Grab the damn dog. It's time to dance
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: our way up out of here with Dino folks. Thanks
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: for hanging with us. You see you had a party
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: in the chat. Always fun to hang.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Out with you.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: I hope you learned something. No, we did, Hi Ruby, Ruby,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: thanks you for stopping by. Hi Folly.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: The greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next Wednesday. Members only and if you're
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: not a member yet, followed the Lincoln the description. We
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: join us as a COVID operator or hire port this show.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: If you can't hit the damn light button here the show?
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: Watch it again? Why not watching all the loop? He
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: started to play All damn night. We appreciate it. Yes,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: good we did our job. Yes, good night. All have
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: a lovely weekend, and we'll see you next Weddin's Day
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: for another exciting edition of the Member show till then.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: Oh and be looking out for a quick hits this
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: weekend at some point to drop two just saying you're welcome. Peace, Yes,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: and a book review awesomely for sure. Definitely he's not tomorrow.