Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / What we’re hearing about the Cubs behind the scenes

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What we’re hearing about the Cubs behind the scenes · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome into North side territory file territory networks, Cubs podcast.
0:09
Speaker 1: I'm Saudi Sharma with my partner, Patrick Mooney. We are
0:12
Speaker 1: your Cubs beat writers over at the athletic Patrick. We
0:16
Speaker 1: are going to talk a little bit about, uh, Cubs
0:19
Speaker 1: coaching staff Cubs for an office. There's been a lot
0:22
Speaker 1: of little things that have happened over the past week
0:25
Speaker 1: to 10 days that are relevant. Uh, we can start
0:30
Speaker 1: right away with the Cubs losing an assistant GM, Jared banner, uh,
0:36
Speaker 1: is now the GM in Baltimore. That would put him
0:39
Speaker 1: the number two behind Elias. Mike Elias, right?
0:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Elias. Yeah, thank you.
0:48
Speaker 1: And this is someone who, he's been with the team since, man,
0:56
Speaker 1: I should remember this off the top of my head, 21?
0:58
Speaker 3: I believe it was like the end of 20, heading
1:00
Speaker 3: into 21. And he had a few different titles over
1:09
Speaker 3: the years, but obviously overseeing the farm system, working as
1:14
Speaker 3: assistant general manager, very extensive background in scouting, player development,
1:20
Speaker 3: administration with none of the Cubs, but the New York
1:24
Speaker 3: Mets and Boston Red Sox as well.
1:26
Speaker 1: Right, right.
1:27
Speaker 2: I think after farm director, he was.
1:33
Speaker 1: he was in charge of like, he oversaw the revamping
1:36
Speaker 1: of the pro scouting department that they, I'm not even
1:39
Speaker 1: sure what they call that department anymore.
1:42
Speaker 2: But he, and.
1:43
Speaker 1: Obviously probably what he's best known for with the Cubs,
1:47
Speaker 1: it's kind of pounding the table for Pete Crow Armstrong
1:51
Speaker 1: at the 2021 deadline. Obviously a huge trade that has
1:57
Speaker 1: shaped this current version of the Cubs without Pete Carr-Armstrong.
2:02
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there'd be a lot of optimism around
2:04
Speaker 1: the Cubs, but he is a huge reason why they
2:10
Speaker 1: are a playoff team for back-to-back years and likely MVP winner,
2:14
Speaker 1: elite defensive player, and someone that kind of makes you
2:21
Speaker 1: feel like, okay, here's a player that the Cubs can
2:23
Speaker 1: build around and try and win a championship with.
2:28
Speaker 3: I mean, Jared was on our show a while ago
2:31
Speaker 3: and had some good Pete stories. I think it was
2:35
Speaker 3: oversleeping on his first day at Instructional League and missing
2:39
Speaker 3: COVID testing, but out of that came a good relationship.
2:42
Speaker 3: But I think more than that, it was Pete's senior
2:49
Speaker 3: season at Harvard-Westlake gets shut down early because of the pandemic.
2:55
Speaker 3: Even though he was a team... USA guy in a
2:59
Speaker 3: high profile part of Southern California. He was off the
3:04
Speaker 3: grid for a bit while he had that shoulder surgery.
3:08
Speaker 3: He was recovering from it and on a rehab program
3:13
Speaker 3: leading up to that 21 deadline.
3:15
Speaker 2: And that.
3:17
Speaker 3: Banner had really seen it up close in a professional environment. And,
3:25
Speaker 3: you know, the Cubs famously said, We're not asking for
3:30
Speaker 3: Pete as their number one target at the start of
3:36
Speaker 3: those conversations, but as it evolved, Jed Hoyer credited Banner
3:41
Speaker 3: as the one who was pounding the table for Crow Armstrong,
3:46
Speaker 3: that he had kind of seen it up close, the explosiveness,
3:54
Speaker 3: the athleticism, and got a feel for the person as well.
3:59
Speaker 3: And you're absolutely right. Where would the Cubs be without Pete?
4:04
Speaker 3: I have no idea. He absolutely elevated this entire operation
4:12
Speaker 3: when you talk about a team built on pitching and
4:15
Speaker 3: defense and an offense that needed a superstar to carry it.
4:21
Speaker 3: And so Banner now gets a chance to kind of implement,
4:29
Speaker 3: or I don't even really know how to describe the
4:31
Speaker 3: Orioles at this point, to be honest. They were building
4:33
Speaker 3: towards something, and they've kind of stalled here, and maybe
4:39
Speaker 3: a fresh set of eyes, a couple different ideas might
4:45
Speaker 3: help get them back on track to what looked like
4:48
Speaker 3: a really promising team, like a sustainable contender. It hasn't
4:53
Speaker 3: quite worked out that way, but that's part of why
4:57
Speaker 3: he's going there. Yeah.
4:59
Speaker 1: I mean, you can really use the Orioles as like a,
5:03
Speaker 1: we'll see how they bounce, but if they can bounce
5:05
Speaker 1: back and how it looks, but you can use them
5:06
Speaker 1: as like a cautionary tale of like, it can seem
5:09
Speaker 1: like you're on this perfect upward trajectory and headed for, uh,
5:14
Speaker 1: headed for consistent playoff success, uh, you know, playoff appearances
5:18
Speaker 1: and like you're set up for a while and, and
5:21
Speaker 1: things can fall apart quickly with a couple, you know,
5:24
Speaker 1: wrong decisions or lack of aggression or creativity or whatever
5:28
Speaker 1: you want to call it. You know, I think we'll
5:32
Speaker 1: see how the banner hire works for them. I don't
5:36
Speaker 1: think the Cubs, you know, it's interesting how assistant GMs work.
5:41
Speaker 1: It's like the, like someone like you just like slowly
5:46
Speaker 1: see people moving through the ranks. And it's like, yeah,
5:48
Speaker 1: it seems like he's headed for an assistant GM title.
5:51
Speaker 1: Like it, I think the, he was the one of
5:54
Speaker 1: three assistant GMs.
5:55
Speaker 2: Am I right?
5:56
Speaker 1: Garrett Giotto, uh, SN Bakari and Jared Banner were the
6:00
Speaker 1: assistant GM. So how do the Cubs fill that role?
6:02
Speaker 1: Do they need to fill that specific role? I think the,
6:06
Speaker 1: you know, the way you, it's just different types of
6:08
Speaker 1: people with different skill sets. Um, I'm not sure if,
6:12
Speaker 1: if you need to fill that exact role or how
6:14
Speaker 1: that works out, uh, for the Cubs specifically, but obviously
6:18
Speaker 1: a great opportunity for Jared Banner. And, uh, you know,
6:21
Speaker 1: if he, If the Orioles do turn it around, it's
6:25
Speaker 1: going to look great for him as well. I mean, obviously,
6:29
Speaker 1: it's not one person, but it does help him quite
6:32
Speaker 1: a bit if.
6:33
Speaker 2: That's what happens.
6:35
Speaker 1: Another name out in kind of like the news cycle,
6:40
Speaker 1: also associated with Pete Crow Armstrong, assistant hitting coach John Maley,
6:46
Speaker 1: who obviously we've known.
6:47
Speaker 2: For a very long time. uh, was with the Cubs starting.
6:52
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get the year right, but it's
6:54
Speaker 1: a probably 15 would be my guess. Uh, 2015 hitting
6:59
Speaker 1: coach for that world series team in 16. Um, he
7:04
Speaker 1: was let go for Chili Davis after the 17 season.
7:08
Speaker 2: Is that right? Am I remembering my Cubs hitting coach history?
7:12
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty good. Yeah. I think off the
7:14
Speaker 3: top of my head, I think you got it.
7:15
Speaker 1: And then went to the Phillies, uh, came back to
7:19
Speaker 1: the Cubs after a stint with the Phillies. It was
7:22
Speaker 1: a triple, it was in the minor leagues, then triple a,
7:25
Speaker 1: and that's where he built his connection with Pete. Um,
7:28
Speaker 1: I remember being told at the time when he was
7:30
Speaker 1: at triple a and Pete was kind of working his
7:33
Speaker 1: way through the minors, uh, the Cubs, the Cubs really
7:38
Speaker 1: wanted to get him up to triple a that year,
7:40
Speaker 1: whatever year that was. Cause they're like, we're not sure
7:42
Speaker 1: how long John Maley is going to be at triple a. Um,
7:47
Speaker 1: And I believe he did interview for some jobs outside
7:49
Speaker 1: of the organization before becoming the Cubs assistant. Currently, his
7:54
Speaker 1: current role, assistant hitting coach at the major league level.
7:59
Speaker 1: Just a guy, and I don't think I've mentioned what
8:03
Speaker 1: we're talking about here.
8:04
Speaker 2: He's apparently, I want to word this correctly. Why don't
8:08
Speaker 2: you word this? He's a contender for? Yeah.
8:14
Speaker 3: As of midweek, our understanding is that the Mets sort
8:21
Speaker 3: of have him on their radar. Um, but at that
8:27
Speaker 3: point things had not formally proceeded, uh, to a point
8:34
Speaker 3: where things were actually happening. They were kind of at
8:38
Speaker 3: the start of their search, um, more than like, uh,
8:44
Speaker 3: targeting and actively like being on the verge of, of
8:47
Speaker 3: hiring mainly, but you understand why he's would be on,
8:51
Speaker 3: I guess anyone's candidate list, but particularly in New York when,
8:55
Speaker 3: you know, David Stearns was an assistant general manager with
8:58
Speaker 3: the Houston Astros when mainly worked there.
9:01
Speaker 1: Oh, right.
9:02
Speaker 3: I remember the Astros were kind of building up and
9:07
Speaker 3: he's working with Jose Altuve, Dexter Fowler, uh, players like that. And,
9:14
Speaker 3: doing a nice job there, which gets him back to Chicago,
9:19
Speaker 3: you know, where he grew up, where his family, where
9:21
Speaker 3: he has roots. He missed one stop in there. He
9:26
Speaker 3: was in Anaheim with Joe Madden. So not that he,
9:30
Speaker 3: not that he made Shohei Otani and Mike Trout, but
9:34
Speaker 3: it's a very interesting, like he just has this great
9:37
Speaker 3: frame of reference. So like the idea of working with
9:40
Speaker 3: Juan Soto in New York would not be like intimidating
9:44
Speaker 3: i mean they fired a guy who had a director
9:48
Speaker 3: of major league hitting title which would i guess would
9:51
Speaker 3: be two steps up from uh an assistant major league
9:56
Speaker 3: hitting coach so this is one of those we'll have
9:58
Speaker 3: to see where it goes. And we'll certainly be checking
10:03
Speaker 3: back on that, but it was kind of an interesting,
10:06
Speaker 3: I believe Kevin Long is another name that was out there.
10:09
Speaker 3: And I believe he has a relationship with Juan Soto and,
10:13
Speaker 3: you know, lots of connections in New York and knows the,
10:18
Speaker 3: National League East, another former Phillies hitting coach. It seems
10:24
Speaker 3: like some of these hitting coach jobs just sort of
10:30
Speaker 3: get recycled and passed around. But I think we both
10:35
Speaker 3: appreciate Maley just for the perspective he has as someone
10:43
Speaker 3: who's seen, I mean, worked in the old Wrigley community
10:48
Speaker 3: clubhouse and batting cages, uh, really helped, you know, Kyle Schwarber,
10:54
Speaker 3: Chris Bryant, you know, worked with that whole group and
10:58
Speaker 3: saw it through. And, um, on a personal level, I
11:02
Speaker 3: gotta give him a lot of credit for like being
11:04
Speaker 3: willing to come back and leaving things on good terms.
11:07
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, he was fired after the
11:11
Speaker 3: Cubs made their third consecutive national league championship series as
11:16
Speaker 3: part of a broader shakeup. And to his credit, he
11:21
Speaker 3: moved on. He kept working, kept adding to his resume,
11:24
Speaker 3: you know, building more relationships, making more connections. And you're
11:31
Speaker 3: absolutely right. I believe it was 23. And to keep
11:33
Speaker 3: this kind of full circle, like the current Mets manager,
11:38
Speaker 3: Andy Green was David Ross's bench coach during that time
11:41
Speaker 3: and respected the work that he did. And, you know,
11:45
Speaker 3: Andy Green very well thought of like, he, he's a
11:48
Speaker 3: very observant person and would know what, what, uh, mainly would,
11:52
Speaker 3: would bring to the table. So definitely like a situation
11:54
Speaker 3: to monitor for sure.
11:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:56
Speaker 1: And, and just in general, I want to say this
11:58
Speaker 1: about mainly, first of all, like always been easy to
12:00
Speaker 1: work with, like very, like great to talk to about hitting, uh,
12:04
Speaker 1: he's like well-respected around the, like there's a lot of
12:07
Speaker 1: hitting coach names around the game who kind of like
12:10
Speaker 1: are like mainly disciples, you know, like, uh, like, uh,
12:15
Speaker 1: Andy Haynes, uh, I poachy who was Anthony, I poachy
12:19
Speaker 1: who was with the Cubs before he's like, he was
12:22
Speaker 1: close with Mailey, uh, you know, the, uh, Justin stone
12:26
Speaker 1: who runs, who's the Cubs director of hitting.
12:29
Speaker 2: Is that the, his title?
12:30
Speaker 3: Yes.
12:31
Speaker 2: Uh, I think so.
12:31
Speaker 1: Uh, he, he, uh, is a big Mailey fan and,
12:36
Speaker 1: and you know, like Mailey's just like well known in,
12:39
Speaker 1: in around the game and, and has a good rep. And, uh,
12:42
Speaker 1: I think he, you know, We'll see where this goes. Obviously,
12:46
Speaker 1: it would be a jump in title. So if it
12:48
Speaker 1: goes well for him, good for him. Tough loss for
12:52
Speaker 1: the Cubs as far as a voice, a well-respected voice
12:54
Speaker 1: in the clubhouse as far as the coaching staff goes.
12:58
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then talk a little
13:00
Speaker 1: bit more about the coaching staff and some people that
13:02
Speaker 1: are returning.
13:04
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13:07
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13:09
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14:06
Speaker 1: Patrick, a little bit of news that we heard yesterday. uh,
14:10
Speaker 1: recently and had in one of our pieces is that, uh,
14:14
Speaker 1: you know, coaches returning, I guess it isn't always like
14:17
Speaker 1: breaking news, but it is, it is a worthwhile bit
14:20
Speaker 1: of information that Tommy Hottaby pitching coach and Casey Jacobson
14:24
Speaker 1: assistant pitching coach are expected to return, uh, to the
14:28
Speaker 1: coaching staff. Uh, this was a, a tough year for
14:33
Speaker 1: the pitching staff for so many reasons, uh, immediately waylaid
14:38
Speaker 1: by injuries, uh, Justin Steele never returned. Cade Horton made
14:44
Speaker 1: two starts, I believe. Ben Brown breaks out and then
14:50
Speaker 1: is lost for the season. The bullpen, just a litany
14:54
Speaker 1: of injuries to the bullpen, including Daniel Palencia never really
14:59
Speaker 1: being himself for much of the year and being on the.
15:02
Speaker 2: Shelf for probably about half of it, it felt like.
15:06
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm probably missing some very obvious injuries and some,
15:09
Speaker 1: some big moments. It felt like, um, they were running
15:13
Speaker 1: a fire drill, the pitching coaches and, and in general, like,
15:18
Speaker 1: like all season long, it felt like it's like damage
15:22
Speaker 1: control or like, how do we fix this?
15:25
Speaker 2: Uh, so while I.
15:28
Speaker 1: Understand some of the criticism for the pitching coaches and,
15:31
Speaker 1: and you know, this is, You know, sometimes you can
15:34
Speaker 1: put injuries on, like, are they doing the right things?
15:36
Speaker 1: I didn't see, like, a trend with injuries, some pretty
15:38
Speaker 1: random weird injuries there.
15:40
Speaker 2: Edward Cabrera is.
15:41
Speaker 1: Another name of a pitcher that just did not have
15:44
Speaker 1: high expectations in battle injuries and in effectiveness. I think
15:50
Speaker 1: they were in, like, constant problem-solving mode. Like, how do
15:53
Speaker 1: we fix this? And, yeah, by war, the pitching was
15:57
Speaker 1: really bad. It was bottom, like, five in baseball games. by, uh,
16:03
Speaker 1: like ERA, they were like mid tier. And that has
16:05
Speaker 1: a lot to do with, I think the defense, but
16:08
Speaker 1: also just like, how do we get through this moment?
16:10
Speaker 1: How do we fix this? And they did a decent
16:12
Speaker 1: enough job, obviously an issue and something that needs to
16:16
Speaker 1: be monitored. But, uh, Tommy had to be, has had
16:19
Speaker 1: some pretty good seasons as pitching coach. I'd say that
16:22
Speaker 1: we're where the war may not be good, but then
16:26
Speaker 1: the results are good. And that's what really matters is,
16:30
Speaker 1: or they're solid enough, and you can give him some
16:36
Speaker 1: credit for that. This was a tough season in general.
16:43
Speaker 1: It's hard to pin it on the coaching staff, but
16:46
Speaker 1: I also understand people who would be like, well, they
16:49
Speaker 1: didn't do well, so who's to blame? I mostly lean
16:53
Speaker 1: towards players in those situations, but just....
16:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, organizations usually find scapegoats, though, but I
17:02
Speaker 3: think it's worth taking into account everything, the entire body
17:07
Speaker 3: of work for this coaching staff. Covering it day to day,
17:13
Speaker 3: it just felt like really another injury, and I was
17:18
Speaker 3: kind of waiting for the bottom to fall out, and it.
17:23
Speaker 2: Didn't.
17:24
Speaker 3: Obviously, they got swept in San Diego. That didn't look Great,
17:28
Speaker 3: but I think you expect them to sort of add
17:34
Speaker 3: to the staff and maybe reshape some of their systems
17:40
Speaker 3: or processes, whatever the case may be. I think we've
17:44
Speaker 3: covered this long enough to know that it's not about
17:47
Speaker 3: any one person or any one coach. This is a
17:50
Speaker 3: systemic problem, and this is what Jed Hoyer was hammered
17:55
Speaker 3: on during his end-of-season performance press conference like where's the
17:59
Speaker 3: pitching like why is this so hard what are you
18:03
Speaker 3: going to do differently moving forward like this is very
18:08
Speaker 3: much echoes um the beginning of that post-2016 world series
18:13
Speaker 3: window uh you know and even that world series was
18:16
Speaker 3: won without with basically zero contributions from homegrown pitchers and
18:24
Speaker 3: obviously it doesn't you don't get extra points if your
18:27
Speaker 3: draft picks pitch well in the majors. Like it's, but
18:30
Speaker 3: it's just like, you see the same cycle of having
18:33
Speaker 3: the go out into free agency and just like fill
18:37
Speaker 3: so many holes on your roster and then go out
18:40
Speaker 3: at the trade deadline again and give up some big
18:44
Speaker 3: time prospects for rental players. It's just, it's going to
18:53
Speaker 3: be one of our main focuses this off season. I'm
18:55
Speaker 3: just really trying to dig in of like, what's, what
18:58
Speaker 3: has gone on and what is going on now to
19:00
Speaker 3: address it.
19:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:02
Speaker 1: And, and to be clear, someone did ask this on Twitter,
19:05
Speaker 1: I believe, uh, it, how to be like, isn't in
19:10
Speaker 1: charge of like player development and the minors and drafting. Like,
19:13
Speaker 1: that's not, that's not his role. His role is just
19:16
Speaker 1: the major league level and trying to help those pitchers
19:19
Speaker 1: get better. Look, they, I don't think they maximized everything
19:23
Speaker 1: as much. Like they, they want to be better at
19:25
Speaker 1: the major league level with pitching.
19:27
Speaker 2: Uh, they like, uh, One of the.
19:28
Speaker 1: Quotes I saw about Jared Banner, someone– I can't remember
19:33
Speaker 1: where I saw this from, so I'm sorry. I'm not
19:35
Speaker 1: giving the reporter credit here. But Banner's– like someone got
19:40
Speaker 1: a quote saying like Banner's focus is like he pushes coaches,
19:44
Speaker 1: major league coaches, to like the development doesn't end once
19:48
Speaker 1: they get to the major leagues.
19:49
Speaker 2: Like constantly.
19:50
Speaker 1: He wants coaches to constantly be pushing players to get
19:53
Speaker 1: better at the highest level like major league players need
19:57
Speaker 1: to continue to evolve and get better uh that is
20:00
Speaker 1: on the coaching staff so that's part of hot of
20:02
Speaker 1: his responsibility i i don't know for sure if they're
20:05
Speaker 1: adding to the staff uh but but it did feel
20:08
Speaker 1: like they could have used some assistance at the highest
20:13
Speaker 1: level as far as there was a lot, maybe last
20:16
Speaker 1: season was an extreme case, but it just seemed like
20:18
Speaker 1: they were constantly like working on things and trying to
20:21
Speaker 1: get things right. And they were almost spread too thin
20:24
Speaker 1: at times. So we'll see what direction that goes. But
20:28
Speaker 1: I like how to be, isn't in charge, like this,
20:32
Speaker 1: this lack of talent in the minors, that's not on
20:34
Speaker 1: how to be, I mean, it's an organizational issue. It's
20:37
Speaker 1: something that Jed Hoyer, has admitted to as an issue.
20:41
Speaker 1: And like you said, I think it's going to be
20:43
Speaker 1: a big focus for us all winter long and see
20:48
Speaker 1: how it goes going into next season.
20:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I get it if you look at it
20:56
Speaker 3: and say he's been there for a long time. Granted
20:59
Speaker 3: that he started before the 2016 World Series in his
21:05
Speaker 3: role as a run prevention coordinator. And I think that's
21:07
Speaker 3: part of the fan frustration just in general with this era.
21:11
Speaker 3: Like it's a lot, you know, it's hard to, we
21:14
Speaker 3: have a lot of people who've been in one place
21:16
Speaker 3: for a long time. It's hard to sustain every single year. And,
21:22
Speaker 3: you know, that's part of these jobs. You have to
21:24
Speaker 3: take the heat. But I think in general, like Tommy
21:28
Speaker 3: is an extension of the front office that they get along,
21:31
Speaker 3: they collaborate pretty well. They rely on his, expertise uh
21:37
Speaker 3: often and he gets along pretty well with Craig Council
21:43
Speaker 3: it sort of seems that way I mean Council did
21:46
Speaker 3: not have you know he was kind of uh it
21:49
Speaker 3: was kind of an arranged marriage right of uh you
21:51
Speaker 3: know when he left the Brewers and really inherited a
21:55
Speaker 3: staff and I think to Council's credit gave individuals a
21:59
Speaker 3: chance to kind of prove their own merits and um
22:02
Speaker 3: you know at this point it seems like there's going
22:05
Speaker 3: to be some continuity there.
22:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it, it, it does seem that way. Uh, one random, uh,
22:13
Speaker 1: tidbit that we got this week, uh, it kind of
22:16
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere. Uh, Cubs, uh, farm director, Jason Kanzler,
22:21
Speaker 1: who has a, a background. He was a player and
22:25
Speaker 1: then was.
22:26
Speaker 2: Assistant hitting coach.
22:28
Speaker 1: I believe, uh, he was a hitting coach with the
22:30
Speaker 1: major league staff for the Houston Astros. And then, uh,
22:35
Speaker 1: came over to the Cubs to be farm director a
22:37
Speaker 1: few years ago. He has interviewed for the Mariners managers
22:43
Speaker 1: job like that. That was a surprise name, uh, an
22:47
Speaker 1: outside the box name for sure for the Mariners. Uh,
22:51
Speaker 1: but you know, like farm directors have become managers before.
22:55
Speaker 1: There's usually like you go to be a base coach
22:58
Speaker 1: and then a bench coach or something like Brandon, that
23:00
Speaker 1: was Brandon Hyde's path. Um, there are coaching coaches on
23:06
Speaker 1: staffs around baseball who have been farm directors. Uh, I like,
23:11
Speaker 1: it's hard to pick one out. Like just say like, yeah,
23:14
Speaker 1: I remember a farm director going directly from that role
23:16
Speaker 1: to manager, but, uh.
23:18
Speaker 2: Maybe it's happened before.
23:19
Speaker 1: There's definitely been, uh, random jumps from front office to manager.
23:26
Speaker 1: So it's not completely out of the box, but an
23:31
Speaker 1: interesting interview. And I did not expect to see that
23:38
Speaker 1: happening for Jason Kanzler, but I'm curious to see what
23:42
Speaker 1: direction the Mariners go here.
23:43
Speaker 3: I would definitely recommend checking out the article you wrote
23:49
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. And I think the headline was
23:51
Speaker 3: something like, who is Jason Kanzler? Meet the Cubs new
23:55
Speaker 3: farm director. And at first I was kind of taken
24:01
Speaker 3: aback and like, well, this is definitely a long shot
24:04
Speaker 3: and maybe it is, but when you dig in a
24:07
Speaker 3: little more, it's like, okay, you have the front office experience.
24:11
Speaker 3: You are a member of a world series winning major
24:15
Speaker 3: league coaching staff working under Dusty Baker. You can point
24:20
Speaker 3: to someone like Jeremy Pena, a World Series MVP as
24:24
Speaker 3: a rookie. He was telling when the Cubs were doing
24:27
Speaker 3: their video presentation to Alex Bregman. Kanzler played an outsized
24:34
Speaker 3: role in that because they have so much history together
24:41
Speaker 3: and because they sort of speak the same language in
24:43
Speaker 3: terms of hitting and just that like baseball gym rat
24:47
Speaker 3: mentality that Bregman appreciates. The Mariners seem to be kind
24:54
Speaker 3: of all over the place, like in the last several
24:56
Speaker 3: years of just kind of, you know, a little bit
24:59
Speaker 3: stuck trying to shake things up. Classic, like they do
25:06
Speaker 3: one thing really well, develop pitching, struggle with the hitting
25:11
Speaker 3: on the hitting side. And so, you know, I would get,
25:15
Speaker 3: you know, Joe Espada, Rocco Baldelli, two other known candidates.
25:19
Speaker 3: So they have a lot more experience. They could be good,
25:22
Speaker 3: like second chance guys, but it certainly doesn't hurt. If
25:29
Speaker 3: that's your ultimate goal to go through the process and
25:32
Speaker 3: get your name out there and maybe learn something too,
25:36
Speaker 3: if you just ultimately come back to the Cubs.
25:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's two sides to this.
25:40
Speaker 1: So like, I understand why he made like, it's a,
25:44
Speaker 1: it's a out of the box, uh, interview, but also
25:47
Speaker 1: like you said, it makes sense. Like you have the
25:49
Speaker 1: former player, he's been on a coaching staff. He does
25:52
Speaker 1: have strong communication skills. There's a reason he was part
25:55
Speaker 1: of that presentation for Alex Bregman. Um, he also understands
25:58
Speaker 1: how the front, how front offices work. He's, he's not
26:01
Speaker 1: like anti analytics or something like that, but so he
26:05
Speaker 1: can understand these things. He probably works well with someone,
26:08
Speaker 1: you know, like with DePoto and Hollander out, he could
26:11
Speaker 1: work well with them.
26:12
Speaker 2: Uh, it makes sense.
26:14
Speaker 1: I understand why. And he's a personable guy. Like I said,
26:18
Speaker 1: good communicator, all those things matter. And it's, I'm curious
26:23
Speaker 1: to see what direction they go, but ultimately going through
26:26
Speaker 1: the process is good for him for sure.
26:29
Speaker 2: And it's just a little bit more experience.
26:31
Speaker 1: I always wonder with the former players in front offices,
26:36
Speaker 1: when they get those types of opportunities, is it like,
26:39
Speaker 1: that in-game competitiveness, you know, when we've probably talked to
26:43
Speaker 1: over the years, talked to like guys like David Ross and,
26:46
Speaker 1: and Craig council, you know, guys that we've worked with
26:51
Speaker 1: that who have had some front office experience, but ultimately
26:55
Speaker 1: it's like, well, what drives you as a former player?
26:57
Speaker 1: It's like getting those in-game competitive juices flowing and like,
27:01
Speaker 1: really like that drives these guys. And that's what they
27:05
Speaker 1: look forward to. It's like, would you rather be a
27:06
Speaker 1: president of baseball operations or a manager? I think a
27:09
Speaker 1: lot of them like lean towards like, yeah, I want to,
27:12
Speaker 1: I want to like be in the game. I want to,
27:14
Speaker 1: I want to feel that I want to be in uniform. Yeah.
27:17
Speaker 2: I don't know if like, I'm sure cancer would take
27:19
Speaker 2: any such role. Those are the dreams, right?
27:21
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, those guys, they're playing resumes were a
27:23
Speaker 3: little bit different than. Yeah.
27:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
27:27
Speaker 3: With all due respect.
27:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
27:30
Speaker 1: World series winners, multi multi world series winners, I think
27:34
Speaker 1: for both Ross and council.
27:36
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
27:38
Speaker 1: Uh, one final thing, uh, you know, the, the Cubs
27:42
Speaker 1: hired Steve Miller to be their inner VP of, uh, international, uh,
27:50
Speaker 1: what is it?
27:52
Speaker 2: The VP of the international department.
27:53
Speaker 3: Basically to run, to run the international scouting.
27:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:57
Speaker 3: That is the expectation.
27:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:59
Speaker 1: And which he had the director role with, uh, the rays, uh,
28:04
Speaker 1: obviously a great organization.
28:05
Speaker 2: It, If you look back at.
28:08
Speaker 1: Their international, I don't know how, if it's been standout recently,
28:12
Speaker 1: but I looked at it as a quality scout and
28:15
Speaker 1: a veteran guy who's been around for a while. So
28:19
Speaker 1: another area where the Cubs are making some changes and,
28:24
Speaker 1: and trying to, I, you know, I don't want to
28:27
Speaker 1: frame everything in the sense of the Brewers, but when
28:29
Speaker 1: you talk about pitching and you talk about international I,
28:33
Speaker 1: Those are two standout areas with the Brewers. So you're
28:36
Speaker 1: playing catch up with them at all times, it feels like.
28:39
Speaker 1: And that's who the Cubs are playing catch up with.
28:42
Speaker 1: And those are two areas where the Cubs are way
28:44
Speaker 1: behind or aren't close to the Brewers.
28:48
Speaker 2: How about that? The Brewers are probably the best.
28:50
Speaker 1: In baseball in those two areas. And the Cubs are
28:54
Speaker 1: looking to catch up in both areas.
28:57
Speaker 3: The Cubs need to be better in international football. At
29:03
Speaker 3: the same time, it feels like who is their best
29:06
Speaker 3: homegrown pitcher this year? Javier Assad. These things take a
29:11
Speaker 3: long time. Miguel Amaya more than proved himself as a
29:16
Speaker 3: quality major league catcher. Pedro Ramirez had a better year
29:21
Speaker 3: than Matt Shaw or some of these other players they've
29:25
Speaker 3: drafted recently. I think all three of them look like
29:28
Speaker 3: they'd be key components of next year's team. I think
29:31
Speaker 3: we're going to dig in on this more uh, over
29:34
Speaker 3: the next couple of weeks of just like the international
29:38
Speaker 3: pitching pipeline just hasn't been there. And I think there
29:41
Speaker 3: are probably lots of reasons for that. We'll see kind
29:47
Speaker 3: of how they adapt and evolve in that space. Cause
29:51
Speaker 3: I think they have to, you, yeah, you look at
29:52
Speaker 3: what the brewers do. No doubt. Um, we'll say I'm
29:56
Speaker 3: going to add a good story in the athletic, uh,
30:00
Speaker 3: About how the Brewers kind of kept going after David
30:03
Speaker 3: Stearns and Craig Council left. And one person they mentioned
30:06
Speaker 3: was former Cub Carlos Villanueva, who I believe is titled
30:09
Speaker 3: special assistant, but is someone who we see at the
30:13
Speaker 3: GM meetings, who's very, very much behind the scenes and
30:17
Speaker 3: probably works a lot more and a lot harder than
30:21
Speaker 3: you'd think for a former player who had a really
30:23
Speaker 3: nice long career and could do a lot of things
30:26
Speaker 3: in the game, but wants to work for the Brewers.
30:28
Speaker 3: I think that's telling. And I think he's worked with
30:31
Speaker 3: Freddie Peralta. And so I think this is the beginning
30:37
Speaker 3: of when you look at the different sections of the
30:40
Speaker 3: pitching infrastructure, I don't think it's all about Steve Miller.
30:44
Speaker 3: I don't think Cubs were not, you know, like terrible internationally.
30:53
Speaker 3: Like they said, there's like, you know, several contributors. I mean,
30:58
Speaker 3: they're where their trade chips come from at the trade deadline.
31:02
Speaker 3: It's like almost always from internationally. I mean, Jefferson Rojas,
31:06
Speaker 3: Moises Ballesteros, you go back to Laboratoris, Eloy, Eloy Jimenez,
31:10
Speaker 3: like they've, they're, um, have been lots of wins in
31:17
Speaker 3: that area, but just the, the pitching component from the
31:21
Speaker 3: top of the organization to the bottom just needs to
31:23
Speaker 3: be addressed. And, We'll kind of see where this goes.
31:26
Speaker 3: I think you're right. Like Tampa does everything well. And like,
31:31
Speaker 3: this is never about one person, but yeah, I don't
31:33
Speaker 3: like Tampa is not like known as a spectacular international
31:40
Speaker 3: group right now. And that's not Steve Miller's fault. That
31:43
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that a year from now we could be
31:45
Speaker 3: saying something totally different. Like that's how long these things take.
31:48
Speaker 3: And also how quickly certain players can pop.
31:53
Speaker 1: Well, and you could say the same thing about the
31:55
Speaker 1: Cubs with international, like a year ago, we would not
31:58
Speaker 1: be saying like, look at, you know, Pedro Ramirez and
32:02
Speaker 1: even Javier Assad coming off a so-so year. Miguel Amaya
32:06
Speaker 1: was an injury, like it was injured all the time.
32:09
Speaker 1: So he didn't really know like what he'd do over
32:11
Speaker 1: full season. Uh, like you just don't know, like guys
32:16
Speaker 1: break out suddenly and they're still so they're, they're signed
32:18
Speaker 1: at such a young age. Like it's, it's hard to
32:21
Speaker 1: evaluate that area. Uh, But ultimately, obviously, the Cubs feel
32:26
Speaker 1: like they need to be better in that area.
32:28
Speaker 3: We both heard separately that Steve Miller has a very
32:32
Speaker 3: good reputation as a scout, a good demeanor, very experienced
32:41
Speaker 3: as a coach, as a scout, working for the Blue Jays,
32:44
Speaker 3: working for the Rays, has a really nice resume, no doubt.
32:52
Speaker 3: I just sometimes see this in comments or on social
32:55
Speaker 3: media of just like, Oh wow. Like if someone's hired
33:00
Speaker 3: from the rays, that means like whatever the rays are
33:03
Speaker 3: good at, then your team all of a sudden becomes
33:05
Speaker 3: good at that too. Like Cubs hired Carter Hawkins from Cleveland.
33:11
Speaker 3: And I think he's largely done what they've expected. Uh,
33:15
Speaker 3: but the Cubs are not like some pitching factory at
33:18
Speaker 3: the level of Cleveland now, like Craig council, I think
33:21
Speaker 3: he's done a, fine job as the Cubs manager, but
33:24
Speaker 3: it's not like the Brewers suddenly crumbled. It's like, I
33:28
Speaker 3: think these two teams in the world series to sort
33:30
Speaker 3: of like wrap it up, you see, it's, it's not
33:32
Speaker 3: about one person. It's not about one decision. It's just
33:34
Speaker 3: like year after year of being good in lots of
33:38
Speaker 3: areas finally gets you to this point. Yeah.
33:41
Speaker 1: Milwaukee like is so emblematic of that, whether it's players, manager,
33:47
Speaker 1: front office people, they, they, lose people all the time
33:51
Speaker 1: and continue to just like build, they have this machine
33:54
Speaker 1: that they've built in and it's quite impressive. Uh, and yeah,
33:59
Speaker 1: we'll wrap it up there. It should be a fun
34:01
Speaker 1: world series. I'm looking forward to it. I know like
34:03
Speaker 1: it just as a baseball fan, I think these are
34:05
Speaker 1: two fun teams to watch. I'm sure Cubs fans don't,
34:08
Speaker 1: don't want to see Milwaukee winning the world series, but
34:11
Speaker 1: the way they play right now, especially the post season,
34:14
Speaker 1: they've just been electric. It, uh, I'm excited to watch
34:18
Speaker 1: it and follow it. So we'll be back next week
34:22
Speaker 1: or no, we got another episode this week. So we'll,
34:24
Speaker 1: we'll have another episode for you and, and we'll be back.
34:28
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and watching to Northside territory. Make sure
34:31
Speaker 1: to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel and
34:33
Speaker 1: subscribe to the athletic where Patrick and I are on
34:36
Speaker 1: top of all things Cubs.
34:37
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening and watching everyone. Take care.