Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 131. How a former teacher built two businesses from scratch, and what she'd do differently - Shannon Pruitt

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131. How a former teacher built two businesses from scratch, and what she'd do differently - Shannon Pruitt · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to the All figured Out podcast.
0:02
My name is Andrea Barr. Thank you for joining me again
0:05
this week. I'm going to be honest, I have
0:08
had some fantastic people reach out to come on the podcast.
0:12
We are at a stage now where people are reaching out asking
0:14
if they can come join me. And it's a really hard decision
0:18
to make when people are saying, hey, like, you know, I think I
0:22
have a story to share. And it's actually one of my
0:25
favorite parts of having this podcast is meeting new different
0:28
people, hearing their story, hearing what they think might
0:31
resonate with this audience here and then Co creating and really
0:34
shaping an episode that you will get a lot of value out of.
0:39
And Shannon Pruitt from Sunday News came across my desk and I
0:46
thought I, I wonder if we've had too many episodes that are
0:49
related to Shannon's work. So she is a brand strategist and
0:53
designer. She helps founders build brands
0:55
that feel really good on the inside.
0:58
She, as they do on the outside is what she says, which I love.
1:01
And she works predominantly with parents, are predominantly with
1:05
mothers, I should say, but does work with a lot of parents.
1:08
And so I thought, you know, we've had some, we had Sam
1:11
Burmeister on the podcast recently to talk about copy.
1:14
We've had a lot of entrepreneurs and how might we make this
1:16
relevant to an audience that I'm starting to learn is a real
1:22
blend of working professionals who work for somebody else and
1:25
entrepreneurs. And so Shannon and I got on the
1:27
line and I just immediately felt just, I don't know, she just has
1:32
a beautiful energy about her. She's warm, she's lovely.
1:37
And she has is was a former teacher and is now the owner of
1:42
Sunday Muse Design. And so I said to Shannon,
1:46
pharmacology said, OK, what might we talk about that could
1:49
really resonate with this audience who aren't necessarily
1:51
all entrepreneurs? And I think we really nailed it.
1:54
We in our conversation explored so many different topics.
1:58
Shannon shared her story of going from being a high school,
2:02
really high level English teacher in the education system
2:05
to becoming a wedding planner, having to close down or deciding
2:09
to close down her business and then COVID hits, but right
2:13
before she was about to sell it. So that was a crazy story.
2:16
And then how she figured out with a six month old daughter,
2:20
Intel, that she wanted to pivot to become a brand strategist.
2:25
She has. It's a really fascinating story.
2:27
I of course, dig in hard on how she made that decision.
2:31
Like how did she really know that it was brand strategy that
2:35
she wanted to do? How did she really reconcile
2:37
like the financial side of it, leaving the wedding industry,
2:40
which is quite lucrative, going into something and really
2:43
unknown territory. How did she make that decision?
2:46
What role did her husband play in this decision?
2:50
We go really deep into it. And then we had such an awesome
2:54
discussion at it towards the end of the episode on personal
2:58
brand. So whether you are in a
3:01
corporation, you're working for somebody else, you are an
3:05
entrepreneur, we talk all about how you can really harness your
3:09
own personal brand to reflect who you want to reflect.
3:13
And she even shares with us for those of you who might be
3:16
thinking about starting a monetized personal brand.
3:19
So say I'll become a lifestyle creator or a food Blogger or
3:23
something where you're not really sure where it's going,
3:25
but you want to just start. She has some wonderful tips
3:29
about how you can go about doing that.
3:31
We even talked about if you're consultant, when do you want to
3:35
need to create a logo? And like all the things we go
3:38
everywhere. This was such a fantastic
3:40
episode. I'm so excited and happy that
3:42
this is coming out in the early new year.
3:44
This is being recorded in December, but it is such perfect
3:47
time because if you are somebody who has really big goals and
3:51
dreams for something that you want to do, a little idea, a
3:54
little seed that you want to germinate in 2026, then this is
3:59
the episode for you. And if you're just someone who
4:02
wants to do really well at work and you want to be seen and
4:05
recognized for who you are and have a really strong
4:09
professional personal brand, then this is also for you.
4:13
I hope you enjoy. This is all figured out.
4:20
I'm Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
4:23
a mom of two, and I absolutely believe that you can continue to
4:27
grow personally and professionally while protecting
4:30
family time. We're about to figure out this
4:34
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
4:45
Shannon Pruitt, thank you so much for coming on the All
4:47
Figured Out podcast. It's lovely to have you here.
4:50
So excited to be here. I have been looking forward to
4:52
this for quite some time. I love it.
4:55
Now tell me, where are you located and who is in your
4:59
family? I am in South Carolina, in the
5:02
United States and the Upstate. If you know anything about South
5:05
Carolina, kind of close to the mountains, but we're also like
5:10
just a couple hours from beach, so it's perfect.
5:13
Yeah, it's nice, but it's just me, my husband, and our almost 5
5:18
year old daughter who is a bundle of joy.
5:21
OHP. That's so wonderful.
5:23
I just love your accent too. Although is it a weird because
5:27
you're probably like this isn't an accent, this is my voice, you
5:30
have an accent. Like does it sound like I have
5:32
an accent? I don't hear right now, but I
5:34
heard it the first time we talked and every now and then
5:38
I'll hear it on the podcast. But then it's like what's a non
5:41
accent, right? Right, right.
5:44
I think weird, yeah. And I don't hear mine but I hear
5:47
my voice all day everyday so. Right.
5:52
Oh my gosh. OK.
5:53
And I was just saying to you, before we hit record, I want to
5:56
start asking people how they introduce themselves because I
5:59
think there's something so especially as this topic we're
6:02
going to be getting into. Yeah, there's something so
6:04
interesting about how we introduce ourselves or like you
6:09
know, based on the evolution going to get into your career
6:12
story, we're going to get into your the business that you run
6:15
now. But like today, Shannon, how do
6:18
you introduce yourself? It depends on who I'm talking
6:21
to. I mean, who am I talking to?
6:22
To you. Yes, and the listeners all
6:25
figured out listeners so. Can parents?
6:27
I am Shannon. I'm Shannon Pruitt.
6:29
I'm a mom, I'm a wife. I'm a woman who is just trying
6:32
to do all the things without burning out.
6:36
That's the thing. But if you're if you're eating
6:39
down to the brass tacks. I am a brand strategist and
6:43
creative director and I work with mostly women, women owned
6:48
brands and businesses, building their brands, their websites,
6:52
their marketing and just helping them feel really confident out
6:55
in the world so they don't have to think about it.
6:59
And I feel like what's so cool and related to you introducing
7:02
yourself in that way is I have a feeling a lot of the work that
7:05
you do now is, is like the design and the strategy and the
7:11
branding side of how somebody introduces themselves.
7:14
Oh yeah, for sure. And I can speak from personal
7:17
experience that when nothing could change internally or based
7:21
on what I'm doing in the world, like the work I'm doing in the
7:23
world isn't that different. However, when I've revamped my
7:27
website or I've like dialed in my brand and my strategy and how
7:32
I talk about what I do, like my confidence and how I talk about
7:36
what I do is so different or being like, oh, check out
7:39
andreabar.com. I'm like actually excited.
7:42
Actually, I'm not that excited to send people there right now.
7:45
Oh no. Yeah.
7:46
I know I'm bored. Do I need to go look?
7:49
I got the ick, I've got the. Egg.
7:51
I got the ICA few months ago with my own and so it's in the
7:54
middle of an overhaul because. Oh my gosh.
7:57
OK, take us all the way back. I'm so excited for people to
8:00
hear the story and for me to hear the full story.
8:02
I've only gotten bits and pieces, but I want to hear the
8:05
full story. You were working in a full time
8:07
job while you were building your first business.
8:10
Take us back to that. Time we're going.
8:12
Matt, how did you do? That I don't know.
8:15
I don't know. I was, I was a full time
8:18
teacher, school teacher and I I had always, always been somehow
8:27
immersed in the wedding industry.
8:29
Don't really know how it happened.
8:31
What I know, Chris, like I mean. You don't ask me to be part of
8:37
that industry with a 10 foot pole.
8:38
Well, I want no part. Of it back, that's not what I
8:41
say. People can still come up to me
8:43
and be like, can you help me with that?
8:45
Nope, I will not. I'm sorry.
8:47
We are closed, closed for business, which we'll talk about
8:51
in a minute. But I don't know, I don't really
8:55
know how that happens. But somehow it happened.
8:57
But I had a full time teaching career teaching and dependent on
9:01
where I was at the moment, but basically teaching middle and
9:04
high school students and the upper grades, the advanced
9:07
college level courses, which plays into a lot of what I do
9:10
now as well. But yeah, it's cool how it all
9:13
came back together. But somewhere in there in 2015 I
9:19
started, I was like, I, I thought I was talking to a
9:22
friend and she was like, why don't you just start your own
9:23
wedding planning business? And I just just kind of like, I
9:28
can do that. Why not, you know how to do it?
9:32
Why are you working for all these other people?
9:34
Oh, I don't know. I didn't really think about
9:36
that. And so I just started, which I
9:42
do, and maybe at some point in this conversation we can talk
9:44
about, but just started. I I didn't know what the heck I
9:48
was doing as far as starting a business, but I started it and I
9:54
was not expecting it to grow like it did.
9:58
It grew so fast. I don't think I was fully
10:01
prepared for how the growth that I experienced, which was cool,
10:05
but also looking back, yeah. And so let's Fast forward a few
10:13
years. And that sorry, sorry Shannon,
10:15
this is pre kids. Yes, yeah, this was, yes, 100%
10:20
important. Detail.
10:21
Yes, because that I needed to do.
10:24
To play, yeah, yeah, No, I was single, zero kids.
10:29
I was after work. I'd go to the gym, I'd work out,
10:33
I'd go home and I'd work and then do.
10:35
I got tired and I enjoyed it. It's a crazy person, but I
10:40
enjoyed it. Yeah.
10:43
But then we Fast forward a few years and business is doing
10:47
great. It's doing fantastic.
10:49
But I also got married and all of a sudden I realized that our
10:54
schedules were completely different because it's wedding
10:58
professional. You're working nights and you're
11:00
working weekends. And you were still working as a
11:03
school teacher at. This point, this moment, yes, I
11:06
was. Wow, so you were working
11:09
actually around the clock? Yes, 100%, while also trying to
11:13
balance life. It wasn't working, which is what
11:18
made me have the decision like something's gotta give.
11:22
So the teaching took. I quit teaching, which I had.
11:26
That was the plan. That was what I wanted to do.
11:27
I didn't want to do it anymore. That is a discussion for another
11:31
day. But I loved my business, loved
11:34
it so much. So fully leaned into that.
11:37
So did that and then in 2019 started revisiting the idea of
11:45
selling the business and just because again, our schedules,
11:49
even the schedule just wasn't lining up.
11:52
I just it, it didn't work. It doesn't work.
11:53
I don't know. I still to this day don't know
11:56
how wedding vendors do it so met with somebody to sell the
12:01
business and he was like it's valued at X dollars.
12:05
I was like what? I had no idea.
12:08
Can you headache? What's the Can you tell me the
12:10
ballpark? I don't remember to be.
12:13
Honest. Like, are we talking like, you
12:15
know, in the six figures? Oh yeah.
12:18
Wow, yeah. For the intellectual property,
12:24
for the kind of client base, the brand that you had built, yes, I
12:27
think that's interesting. That's a.
12:28
Really cool reminder to people expecting that.
12:32
I just remember going home. My husband, me, like he told me,
12:35
I mean, it was in these six figures.
12:37
I don't remember the exact number, I could go back and
12:40
look, but I. Don't know.
12:41
Yeah, that's so interesting. There's a reason why I don't
12:43
remember anyway, I had several interested buyers.
12:49
I was, this is fantastic. Where are you going to sell this
12:52
business and have some money that we can do something with
12:55
and then COVID head. And for any of you who don't
13:00
know what happened to the wedding and event industry
13:02
during that, it flipped on its head.
13:04
It absolutely flipped on its head.
13:07
Events were having to get rescheduled completely, like
13:10
picked up from location A to location B.
13:13
You couldn't have all these people at an event, couples,
13:16
they're devastated. You understand that at all these
13:18
things, people are having to close their businesses and all
13:21
these interested buyers pulled out.
13:23
They were like, I don't want to do this.
13:25
I can't blame you. I wouldn't want to either.
13:28
And the the guy helping me sell the business is like, well, in
13:32
order to keep up the value, you have to keep going.
13:34
And I just wasn't willing to do that.
13:37
Then we found out we were pregnant.
13:38
So I was like, yeah, we're just going to be done.
13:42
Which, you know, it is what it is, but ended up doing my last
13:48
wedding in May of 2021, four months after my daughter was
13:52
born, and then just a couple months later decided to start
13:56
this business. Because then.
13:59
I I missed it. I missed owning my own business.
14:01
I missed building that brand. And we were trying to figure out
14:05
what I could do while being able to stay home but not having to
14:08
work nights and weekends. And so out of a conversation one
14:13
night with my husband, I realized, hey, you know what?
14:17
When I was planning weddings and I would refer all of these
14:20
amazing talented businesses to couples, a lot of times they'd
14:25
come back and say, hey, no, we don't want to hire them.
14:28
And I couldn't figure out, you know, I couldn't figure out why.
14:31
I'm like, well, why not? Can you please share with me?
14:34
Because I know what they're capable of.
14:36
I have seen their work. I've tasted their cake, I've
14:38
tasted their food. I've seen them in action.
14:41
And more times than night they come back and say this, the
14:45
website is outdated, this brand looks like it's from 1995
14:49
through social media is like, what are they even doing over
14:53
there? And so these couples are looking
14:56
for relevancy. They're looking for things being
14:58
updated. They are looking for something
14:59
modern. And some, not all, but some
15:03
vendors were so busy they couldn't update it.
15:05
They couldn't do it or they didn't know.
15:08
And so. One thing, know that like maybe
15:11
they didn't know the value, like maybe they weren't hearing that
15:15
because that's a hard thing to deliver to somebody.
15:16
Hey, just so you know, I'm not hiring you because you seem like
15:19
you're stuck in the past. I mean, I'm personally not
15:21
giving that feedback. So that's an interesting
15:24
insight. Yes, and it's hard.
15:27
I remember very trying to vary like kindly gently tell some
15:31
people like, hey, you might wanna look into updating this.
15:36
But it's also hard because that wasn't what I was doing at the
15:39
time. So they, you know, they took it
15:43
for whatever it was worth. I love it.
15:44
Keep going. We got time, alright.
15:46
Long form. Long form baby.
15:48
Then this wedding planner that I had been friends wife came to
15:51
me. She said hey I know you're doing
15:53
copy and I would love to hire you for that, but can you?
15:56
And for those of you who don't know, happy is that that's the
15:58
words on your website, that's the words on your social media,
16:00
that's any written form of communication that you're
16:04
putting out there in the world. It is what you were saying to
16:08
talk to somebody, to try to get invent somebody to take any sort
16:11
of action. It doesn't have to be to buy
16:13
from you or hire you, but to take any sort of action.
16:16
And that was a lot of what my teaching career consisted of.
16:21
So anyway, this wedding planner came to me and she said, can you
16:24
also design my website? I really liked yours.
16:26
When you were planning wedding settings, did you do yours?
16:29
I was like, yeah, I did the whole thing.
16:30
Just like, how did you do that? I was like, I just learned how
16:32
to do it. I don't know.
16:34
So anyway, one thing led to another.
16:37
Fast forward several years after that and here we are.
16:40
I'm doing brand strategy, brand identity copy, website design,
16:45
SEO and mostly for wedding vendors, but also a lot of women
16:50
just in general, which is so cool.
16:52
A lot of other moms or just even women who aren't moms and just
16:57
are busy like I was back in the day.
17:00
So it's super relatable and it's just fun to help them but.
17:03
Such. People.
17:04
Story from teacher, what a cool. I love these stories like a
17:09
teacher that is, it's such a specific niche and the fact that
17:13
you have the confidence and the wherewithal or whatever you
17:16
would say you're the, you're the linguist, not me to be like, you
17:21
know what, I could see how this could be transferable into
17:24
other, other pathways. And that takes a lot of, like I
17:28
said, confidence. So good for you for doing that.
17:31
Now I want to I want to go to that moment where you're sitting
17:33
at the dining room table with your husband.
17:36
You have a four month like this is kind of in and around the
17:38
time that you just had your daughter.
17:40
She was and that's when we started this business.
17:43
Yeah. So you're like, OK, something's
17:44
gotta give. And the stakes were high.
17:47
So this is different than when you left teaching.
17:50
The stakes were so different. You had a part, a husband,
17:54
partner that you had to be making this decision with, which
17:58
is not talked about enough. How hard that can be.
18:00
Very hard different, especially when we got married late later
18:05
in life and our mid 30s and yeah, we were not used to having
18:10
to make decisions together so. Totally.
18:12
And then you've got this little human.
18:13
You're like, Oh my gosh. Now this isn't just like a
18:15
hypothetical child that I'm trying to think about my career.
18:18
You're like, you're here and you're a wee baby and you're
18:22
very needy. You need me, right?
18:25
In the best way, yes. And so take me to that moment
18:29
where you and your husband are sitting there weighing all the
18:33
options and looking at who you are, what you like, what your
18:37
skills are. How did you navigate that?
18:41
It was honestly him. I hadn't thought about this.
18:44
You're going to give him the credit for?
18:45
This I am. Oh yeah.
18:48
Good for you. Sitting there and he's like,
18:50
well, why don't you do this? I was like, what are you talking
18:53
about? He's like, why can't you do
18:55
this? And I said, well, what do you
18:56
mean? And so he said, well, you, you
18:58
know how to do ABCDEFG. You've got the experience over
19:03
here. You were designing weddings.
19:05
I've seen your design boards that you were giving all these
19:07
couples. That is branding.
19:09
You're branding an event. Why can't you go brand a
19:12
business? You know, the writing, the
19:15
words, how to sell. You taught how that you taught
19:18
high school, college level kids how to do that.
19:21
Why can't you just go do that for a brand?
19:25
Oh, I don't know. I didn't think about all this.
19:29
Wow. And how did that align with the
19:31
part of the wedding planning business or the part of the work
19:34
that you enjoyed doing? Is that a part that you always
19:38
had an also enjoyed or was it just a marketable skill that
19:40
you? Had that was the part of wedding
19:43
planning that I enjoyed the most was the designing.
19:45
I left that part. I loved getting to put these
19:48
together, these design boards for these couples about how this
19:51
could look. I loved getting to show them,
19:53
hey, this is what your venue space looks like at this moment
19:56
and this is what it could look like for your wedding day.
20:00
And then taking them to their rental store and looking at all
20:03
the swatches and the linens and the tables and all the chair
20:07
options. And no, that was my absolute
20:09
favorite part. And then out of all of that and
20:12
being able to show them, OK, here's concept one, here's
20:15
concept 2, here's concept 3. Concept 3 was always my wild
20:19
card. Like something they weren't
20:22
expecting. And more often than not, that's
20:25
the one they would choose. OK, so fun.
20:28
Yes, yes, cool. And that's what I say now when
20:31
I'm designing brands, which is so fun.
20:33
I I love it. I love it.
20:36
That is, oh, I love this. OK.
20:38
Now, as it pertained to the financial side of this decision,
20:42
this is a big one. So a lot of listeners who might
20:45
be grappling are not even grappling, but just curious
20:48
about could this be something that they do?
20:50
Could they go into that marketable skill that they have
20:53
the part of the work that they do in their nine to five that
20:55
they're like, wait, I love this and I'm really good at it, but I
20:58
hate all the other bullshit in the day and I don't want to be
21:02
commuting or or whatever. They're curious, how did you
21:06
have that discussion from a financial perspective?
21:08
Because you were walking away from a, I'm sure pretty
21:11
lucrative industry. Yeah, into the unknown.
21:16
It was it was not easy. It was not easy.
21:19
It was basically a let's see if this works OK.
21:22
Also acknowledging the fact that hey, you're, you don't have the
21:25
time to run a 40 hour a week job.
21:29
You just don't. So we're going to acknowledge
21:31
that. We're going to accept it and
21:33
we're going to do what you can in the time that you have.
21:36
Because with that being said, I, my daughter has stayed home with
21:41
me the past four and almost five years, other than a couple of
21:46
hours at a preschool a few days a week and then grandparents
21:49
graciously stepping in when she's been home.
21:51
And so I'm working like today I had about a total of three hours
21:56
and that's it. And so we're doing I've, I've
21:59
become very efficient, become very efficient.
22:02
So just acknowledging the fact like, OK, you, you don't have
22:07
the time you don't have this is not gonna be the time that you
22:10
can commit to a full time job. So let's go into that.
22:13
Except that because also me, I tend to be a perfectionist and
22:19
I'm gonna wanna work all those hours and if I can't then I'm
22:22
gonna get mad and frustrated with myself.
22:25
So to acknowledging that taking some of the funds from the
22:27
previous business and to kind of start it, but to be honest with
22:31
you, this didn't take, it doesn't take a lot to start.
22:35
It really truly doesn't. It takes more money than I'm
22:38
sorry, more time than it does money to start it.
22:41
Yep. Yeah, OK.
22:43
I wanted, I want to lean into this because I'm raising my
22:46
hand, asking for a friend. I, I work.
22:50
It sounds like I, I do commit more.
22:52
I have more hours. We have a bit more childcare
22:54
than it sounds like you have. And I still maybe because I'm so
22:59
passionate about this business, I still feel moments where I'm
23:04
not, I'm not proud to say that. I say it's like 4:00 and I'm
23:10
like, OK, then like hang with my kids now send her nanny home or
23:13
she's going to help us do something else and I'm going to
23:15
hang. And then I have this idea that
23:17
comes to me or I have this e-mail I want to send or like,
23:21
that was not my previous life. I was, I've always been an
23:24
overachiever 100%. But like, I wasn't like, Oh my
23:28
God, I would just kill to send this e-mail right now.
23:30
Like, how do you manage that? How do you handle those moments
23:33
where you're like, I'm with you when I want to be present and
23:36
I'm now so excited about this thing?
23:38
Oh my gosh, it's so hard. It's so hard.
23:40
And I'm not perfect. I'm not perfect with it.
23:43
A lot of times I will just voice note.
23:48
I do voice notes a lot because it's so much faster than typing
23:51
totally out into my phone. So I'll see you later.
23:55
I will literally open the calendar app on my phone and add
23:59
a note. Hey, this idea, leaning back
24:01
into it tomorrow or whatever at a specific time where I know
24:05
that I'm alone. But there's a lot of times too
24:07
where I just, I won't. If we're being completely
24:10
honest, I'll just be like, hey baby, give me 5 minutes.
24:13
I'll be right back. Yeah, yeah.
24:16
And you know, then the sometimes the guilt seeps in, but it is, I
24:23
don't know, it's a, it's a hard balance.
24:25
But I also try to look at it from the standpoint of she's
24:27
also watching me build something and tender something that maybe
24:33
she feels empowered she can do one day.
24:35
So. Yeah.
24:36
And actually include her sometimes I try to include her
24:39
sometimes when I can. I mean, she's 4.
24:42
Including her means like here's my Pantone swatches.
24:44
You want to play with my momma's colours.
24:47
And she loves that. She loves that.
24:49
I mean, who wanted it? Ah, that sounds like a dream, a
24:53
childhood dream, right? Are they all like a a fan thing?
24:57
Like attached on like a ring. No, these are these are just the
25:00
cards, the cards, the individual cards, but she spills them all
25:03
over the floor and you know yeah organizes or colour and what she
25:08
does with them, she gets it to her a little imagination and
25:10
just keep. Does like you shared before this
25:13
there was a monopoly incident? Yes, there was a Monopoly,
25:16
right? Yeah.
25:17
I mean, this is life. This is when we talked about.
25:19
I just was kind of laughing. I was like, this is, of course,
25:22
this is happening right before this podcast interview.
25:24
But like, it couldn't be any truer to what we're going to
25:28
talk about, I guess. I was sending her upstairs to go
25:31
hang out with my mom, who was here right now watching her.
25:33
And she, they're going to play Monopoly Junior.
25:36
And so she pulled them Monopoly Junior box out of the cabinet.
25:39
And I just heard it. I heard it all.
25:41
I heard it all, all, every single tiny little piece of all
25:45
everywhere. And of course she and her little
25:47
tiny body is so upset about it. And so I just stopped and I just
25:51
helps her clean it up and then sent her on her way and she was
25:54
all good. But I mean, you know, 2 minutes
25:57
before getting on here with you, that's what happened.
25:58
So yeah, we work. Around Friday do gosh, aren't
26:03
we? Aren't women mothers just the
26:04
best piters in the entire universe?
26:07
Go us. Let's go us.
26:09
Let's go us. There's a lot of times I may
26:11
look like I'm in a fog or can't remember what I'm doing, but.
26:15
But here we are. We made it.
26:16
That's right, we're and we're in the listeners ears right now.
26:19
We're with you and maybe you had your own version of Monopoly
26:22
today. Maybe it was the coffee, maybe
26:24
it was the water bottle. Usually it's all of those things
26:27
for me on any given day. We're not yet in board game
26:30
land. There have been a couple
26:32
incidents already today where I'm like, oh, there goes the
26:35
crock pot. Juice from the meat that's
26:36
cooking on the counter. Yep, Ohhhhh.
26:39
Not the crockpot juice. OK.
26:43
Shannon, we need to pivot into personal brand.
26:46
All right, let's talk. About I love the topic of
26:49
personal brand. I'm going to share with you what
26:50
I was in corporate. I worked in the fashion industry
26:54
and I worked for a really fantastic billion dollar fashion
26:58
brand here in Vancouver. There's only a few of them, so
27:00
you know it's one of two and and I will say the words personal
27:08
brand came up a lot, which is so interesting in a corporate
27:13
setting. So we did talk about that.
27:15
So I was in the learning and development department.
27:17
You're responsible for professional training and
27:21
development. I was on the professional
27:23
development, personal development side, which was
27:24
really fun. And this came up a lot like how
27:27
do we have help people hone, harness, develop their own
27:32
personal brand so that they can be successful internally was the
27:36
ask. And so I think this is kind of
27:38
an interesting topic to have Someone Like You come on to
27:40
share with us. So if we were to 1st speak to
27:44
the corporate employee or the person, I say corporate as like
27:47
someone who works for somebody else.
27:49
I mean, you can work at a gas station, doesn't matter.
27:51
What would you say? Like if someone was like, I just
27:53
feel like I'm not myself at work or I, I don't love like, Oh my
27:59
gosh, if you're watching this on YouTube, that stupid reaction
28:04
always comes up and I turned it off.
28:06
I went into my settings after the last time it happened.
28:09
Ah, the things are just drive you crazy with technology.
28:12
Like who wants that? Who wants that?
28:14
Turn it off so. It's like the thumbs up bubble
28:16
that pops up for anyone who's just listening.
28:18
OHT drives me crazy. Anywho, OK so the person who's
28:23
like I want to revisit my own personal brand.
28:28
I feel like you've got thoughts on this.
28:29
I know this isn't particularly you're like niche area of
28:32
expertise and like the working for someone else, but where
28:35
would you get someone to start in any branding exercise?
28:38
I have a lot of thoughts you would where would I get somebody
28:43
to start on this? Exercise.
28:44
Yeah. You're like, I want to reach
28:46
2026 is like, this is gonna happen.
28:48
This is gonna launch in 2026 this episode and someone's like,
28:50
this is my year. Yeah, I think you need to figure
28:53
out first and foremost what do you actually wanting to do?
28:56
Like, why do you want a personal brand with four?
28:59
Why? Like, I think you've got to get
29:01
down to that because every, I feel like everybody and their
29:05
mom is talking about having a personal brand right now.
29:08
And I'm like, but why? Why do you want one?
29:12
And then are you gonna be able to commit to actually building
29:14
this because it's gonna take work.
29:16
And that's what I think a lot of people don't realize.
29:19
I had a conversation with a client, gosh, a couple weeks ago
29:24
and she's starting a personal brand and we did some work
29:27
together and then we had a call to catch up.
29:30
And she was like, I just thought that I could just do this stuff
29:33
and that it would just start happening.
29:35
I was like, oh girl, no, we got you got to keep going.
29:38
You gotta keep working. So I think really coming back to
29:42
why are you wanting a personal brand?
29:44
What is this going to do for you?
29:45
What are you wanting to do with it?
29:47
Because without it, you're just kind of throwing stuff out into
29:51
thin air. Yeah.
29:52
OK. So I this is so interesting.
29:54
I love that you answered it that way because where I was coming
29:57
at, it was more as like a person's personal brand, like
30:00
internal personal brand versus turning into a business.
30:02
So what you were saying was more the person who's like, I want to
30:05
monetize myself? Is that what you meant?
30:08
Well, that is, yeah, that's what you were meaning.
30:11
But if we're totally from the internal perspective as well,
30:14
that yeah, I think is starting with you need to get really
30:18
clear on who you are because you can't create a personal brain
30:21
without knowing that. Yeah.
30:23
Well, I think that this your advice also stands as somebody
30:26
who does do this work a lot. I work with people who are in
30:29
career change, transitions, career development or just how
30:32
do you navigate being a working parent, mother?
30:37
And it is true. Like I think your initial
30:39
response to that was you have to understand like what you want
30:42
out of this. You have to understand why
30:43
you're doing this. So if it is an internal so, say
30:46
so. I worked at Aritzia, so secret.
30:49
I'm just I just joke. So at Aritzia, if I was still a
30:54
corporate employee and I was like, I want to harness my
30:58
personal brand, you have to understand, like, what do you
31:02
want out of it? And not in a sleazy way.
31:04
Like that's that's kind of my, that's my initial reaction.
31:07
But like, what is this gonna do for you?
31:09
Like, by, by developing yourself as a human being.
31:13
Like, what do you want out of that?
31:14
We're right, yeah. I would love to ask that
31:18
question to so many people I see who are just kind of quit
31:21
building a part if you can't, if you're not watching, you're
31:24
listening. I'm doing the air quotes like
31:25
building a personal brand. Like, OK, I would love to know
31:28
what you're doing. Like why are you doing this?
31:31
What is your ultimate goal? Because I don't know, I'm big on
31:36
coming back to your way for anything.
31:38
Like, why are you doing something?
31:39
It helps you stay grounded. It helps you stay focused.
31:41
And I know that sounds so cheesy and so dumb, but really, truly,
31:44
you can get off track so fast, and then if you get too far off
31:48
track, you're losing sight of why you started.
31:52
Yeah, it's so true. Whenever I'm doing like the
31:55
career development work with somebody who's a parent, we
31:58
always go big and we go far out. We go to the five, to the 10 to
32:02
the 20 year. We actually talk about
32:04
retirement usually in the first hour of working together for in
32:08
the VIP day, because if we don't know where you're going, we,
32:12
what is the purpose of what you're doing now?
32:15
So it's like, OK, you're you're happy and content being in a
32:19
corporate setting right now. What?
32:22
How does that serve your future? You do you wanna become the CEO
32:24
or do you wanna keep on this corporate path?
32:26
Or are you like, I actually don't need to invest that much
32:30
time and energy in this internal brand because I want out in two
32:34
years? Right.
32:35
That's what I mean. It's so it's a great.
32:38
Great place to start. Yes, I just.
32:42
Yeah, I don't want any. More than likely, if you're
32:46
listening to this podcast, you are.
32:48
You don't have a ton of time. I don't know who does anymore,
32:51
but like, you're not wanting to waste time on anything.
32:55
So let's get down to the heart of it and figure out what it is.
32:58
Because if you are wanting out in two years, then maybe you
33:02
don't really spend a lot of time on it.
33:04
Maybe you can do a few things, but yeah, I don't.
33:08
Know maybe you're allowed to coast A.
33:10
Bit right, Yes. People don't say that.
33:12
Enough. No, they don't.
33:13
I actually read an e-mail recently talking about costing.
33:16
No, that's funny that you just brought that.
33:17
Up, I need to get on your e-mail list.
33:20
OK, so Shannon now, now let's go back to what you initially
33:25
started talking about, which is totally where we're headed
33:27
anyways, which is the person who wants to create a personal brand
33:33
that they might one day monetize.
33:35
So OK, here's the case study. I'll give you the case anyway.
33:38
Oh, I didn't know it was gonna case study.
33:40
Give it to me to get a case study.
33:41
Your former educator, I'm sure you sounds like you did stuff
33:44
like this before. OK, here's the case study.
33:46
The person who works cool corporate tech SAS job, they're
33:51
like middle manager director maybe And they're like, yeah,
33:53
this is great. I don't want to be here in two
33:56
years from now, 2028. I don't want to be here anymore,
33:59
but I have no idea what I want to do.
34:02
But I'm kind of excited by seeing all these creators out
34:05
there and all these personal brands.
34:07
So I don't really know my why per se, but should I just start
34:12
posting on Instagram? Should I just start?
34:15
Like, where does that person go without wasting time that they
34:20
don't actually have? Yeah, playing quote UN quote on
34:23
Instagram. Sure.
34:24
Yeah. What do you do you know?
34:26
That's a good question. Laughing because of my loving
34:30
relationship with Instagram. But I think, I don't think you
34:35
wait. I don't think you wait to get it
34:37
perfect because the gosh, you're never going to get it perfect.
34:40
It's not going to ever be perfect.
34:41
And I think there's something beautiful about doing something
34:44
imperfectly. But all that to say, I think
34:47
before you post something, OK, you've got to figure out what
34:49
you're going to post. So what is it that let's say it
34:53
lights you up, what do you get excited about?
34:56
Like, you know, what is it? Is it traveling?
35:00
Is that cooking? Is it art?
35:04
Is it walking around your downtown area and popping into
35:10
different restaurants? OK, So what is it going to be?
35:12
Because that if you're passionate about that, like, I
35:15
don't know, I'm thinking of this person in this case study you're
35:17
giving me. Like, maybe they are a foodie.
35:19
Maybe they love visiting local restaurants.
35:21
OK, well then on your time off, you're going to eat anyway.
35:24
So go pop into a couple of restaurants, film what you're
35:28
eating. I don't know.
35:29
I'm not a social media manager by any means, but like, make
35:33
some sort of content out of something you love.
35:36
Let's say you're into fashion. So go to a couple of your
35:39
favorite boutique stores, get a haul, try it on and show people.
35:44
Look, I'm a sucker for those videos.
35:46
Like, you know, find what it is that you enjoy doing and turn it
35:52
into some sort of content. And from there you can build
35:55
your personal brand from there. That's going to evolve into
35:59
something bigger if you keep it up and if you're reaching the
36:02
right people, the right audience.
36:04
How often would you say from your experience as a brand
36:08
strategist? So as we now think about like
36:10
the strategy of it all, because OK, now I'm going to back it up.
36:14
I notice that there's so many lifestyle quote, UN quote
36:17
lifestyle creators out there who look like everything is just
36:22
Willy nilly. But I suspect the best of them
36:25
do have some sort of strategy in place or have refined it.
36:28
So now this is the question I wanted to ask was around like,
36:31
what's the permission level of a, a person?
36:34
Like how often is a person allowed to continue to like
36:36
refine and change And like, so they start off as a foodie, but
36:40
they're like selling so much I can eat.
36:42
And like, I don't, I don't know. I actually like posting about
36:45
like travel more. Like how much do you have to get
36:48
right from the start? I guess that's my.
36:50
Question, I don't know that you have to get anything right from
36:51
the start. And this may not be like the
36:54
popular advice, but I don't think you have to.
36:58
I think you can just do it. I think with the way and I, I
37:02
guess since we're talking social media, I mean, and it is what it
37:06
is like with the way it's growing.
37:08
If you want to pivot, pivot. If you want to try something
37:11
new, try it. I mean, I don't think it's going
37:14
to hurt. I think of some of the top
37:15
creators and they're not just talking about one or two
37:19
different things. They are.
37:21
There's a slew of stuff they're showcasing, so why not Wow.
37:25
I love it. Good.
37:26
OK, Permission. Yeah, I would say that from my
37:29
experience in starting, I'll figure it out, starting my
37:32
coaching business, even though they're kind of similar brand,
37:36
they're almost 2 separate brands a little bit now.
37:38
They do converge. But I felt like from my coaching
37:41
business in particular, like I would love the podcasts, like
37:45
the business podcast. And it was always like Nish,
37:47
nish, Nish. But it wasn't until I worked
37:49
with a slew of people that I knew where I wanted to niche.
37:52
Yeah. And then I became a mom and it
37:54
became very relevant and I was like, oh, there's a huge gap
37:57
here. Right there.
37:58
It is, but I realized I was like, yeah, the life coaching
38:01
thing, that just general coaching thing is not for me.
38:05
I personally like I love that space for for myself in therapy,
38:09
like just like a bring whatever come as you are.
38:11
And then I loved talking to people about their careers,
38:15
like, you know, you're not supposed to talk about work too
38:16
much with your friends or family.
38:17
So I was like, yeah, use me as that person that you can talk at
38:20
work to. Absolutely.
38:22
Yeah. And so I think there's something
38:24
to be said about that because you don't know.
38:26
You and I are full of like, I see you've rolled her eyes so
38:31
many times as like you're saying something, but like you don't
38:34
know until you try, right? You've gotta like post the thing
38:37
to be like, oh, that, that felt good, or oh, that felt weird,
38:40
right? Or then people DM you back about
38:42
the subject and you're like, oh, I'm kind of bored.
38:44
Like I actually don't care. About this at all, right?
38:48
Well, I think you have to like, I was looking a little bit this
38:51
morning, actually. I think in terms of social media
38:54
and the algorithms constantly changing, it could be that
38:58
something flopped because the algorithm is changing, or it
39:01
could be that what you created didn't resonate with who you're
39:05
trying to reach. So you've got to look at the
39:08
data and look at which one. Can we figure out which one it
39:10
is? Is it the quote algorithm or is
39:12
it that discontent didn't resonate with the audience?
39:18
Hmm. Very good point.
39:20
Now, Shannon, if somebody has and there's so many, I would say
39:24
most people listening have had at some point or do have a dream
39:29
like a sparker seed of an idea that they're excited about that
39:34
they keep thinking about, have probably been thinking about for
39:36
a couple years. What is the where do they start
39:40
to create any sort of brand and just like nurture an idea where
39:47
would you start? Wow, that's a good question.
39:49
I think, well, we're still talking personal brand.
39:53
It could be anything, something you know.
39:55
Do you know how many people have come across and worked with me
39:57
who have said that they have dreams of opening a cafe?
40:00
Oh my gosh. Yeah, so cool.
40:03
Like a beautiful corner store cafe, like all people from
40:07
different we're talking tech, lawyers, marketing.
40:11
Like it's so interesting. That's the number one thing I.
40:14
Hear that? Is psychology there?
40:16
I'm sure. Yeah, OK.
40:18
Cozy cozy happy vibes. Bell love coffee.
40:21
Yeah, total opposite of what they're used to.
40:25
I think if you're gonna start doing anything, I don't know.
40:29
Now I've got the cafe in my head, but I think starting
40:33
small, getting it out there and trying it.
40:37
So maybe it's, let's think the cafe person.
40:41
I don't know if it's a bakery. That's a hard 1 cause that's a
40:44
standalone like OK, no, you're right bakery, I see where you're
40:47
going. I mean, maybe it's like selling
40:49
some products at your house. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of
40:52
immediately is I've got a friend and she is constantly,
40:56
constantly begging and I'm always joking.
40:59
Like when you're ready, I'm going to create your Lido, you
41:03
know, but she'll create these babies.
41:07
Beautiful, delicious cookies, bread.
41:10
I don't, I don't know. I'm not a Baker and it was and I
41:15
finally told her was like, these are good.
41:17
If this is something you really are interested in, go.
41:21
I mean, this sounds so small. Go back and go buy some like
41:25
brown bags off of Amazon wherever or maybe we're not
41:30
using Amazon, but wherever. Go buy them and then like stick
41:34
them in there instead of just giving somebody you're a loaf of
41:36
bread and wrapped up tinfoil or wrapped up plastic wrap.
41:42
Let's be a little bit more intentional about it.
41:44
Go buy a bag, get a sticker on it, put some sort of sticker.
41:48
Start small. I don't know, that's one
41:49
example. Just because it's so relevant
41:52
and recent and real. Let's say it's somebody who I'm
41:57
trying to think of another example.
41:59
So like a consultant, you know, the people who are like I have
42:01
like, you know, you know, maybe they don't have a lot of extra
42:04
time, but they could really use some extra money.
42:06
Let's let's be real here. Yeah, that's a real thing.
42:09
And they're like, I could really use a couple 100 bucks a week.
42:12
Extra OK, then find somebody who needs your consultancy and offer
42:16
it to them because figure out the price point.
42:19
Make it. You're gonna have to make it
42:21
lower at the beginning. It just is what it is.
42:23
It's gonna have to be lower than what the industry standard is,
42:27
but you're starting out, so you have to accept it and just offer
42:30
it. Maybe even do a couple for free.
42:34
Get some testimonials. I mean, it sucks, but you gotta
42:36
do it. I mean, this is how both of my
42:38
businesses, you gotta do some free work in there to get going
42:41
so you have something to show so you get those testimonials.
42:45
So start it and just offer it for free.
42:48
Find a couple of people after that maybe to charge for a lower
42:51
amount and slowly build it from there.
42:55
And then I mean you can get into the naming, you can get into the
42:58
brand colour palette and then the website and all the things.
43:00
But I I'm probably unpopular opinion among the designers, and
43:06
I am one, is you don't necessarily need that to get
43:08
started. It is going to be important when
43:11
you start growing, but I don't think you need it to get
43:14
started. Just start.
43:16
It feels like a pitfall that a lot of people, myself included,
43:19
can like. It's it's it's fun, it's
43:22
creative, it makes it feel real. However, it could feel real, but
43:27
not even be real yet because you spent too much time and money on
43:32
the branding side. And I'm saying that to somebody
43:34
who's a brand strategist, but I feel like you would.
43:36
Agree. No, I do agree because I think
43:38
there is a lot of the work that I do with branding is very
43:42
strategic, very much grounded. And getting back to that, why
43:46
and the purpose, there's a reason for every single pixel
43:48
that we put somewhere, every single curve and a letter, one
43:55
shade off and a colour for the colour palette can make a huge
43:59
difference. And so I think before you start
44:02
investing in that or even DIY ING it, just get it out there
44:06
because you can, you can go down there, you can go down the
44:09
rabbit hole of fonts and colours and website and all the things.
44:15
And that's going to eat away time for what you're really,
44:18
really good at. So I love that and I was saying
44:22
to you when we had our intro calls, some of the brand
44:25
packages that you have are so well priced at like just, it's
44:28
like it's just the kickstart. You might want say it is really
44:31
important to you or you have a business where you want to get a
44:33
stamp for the brown paper bag and you need a logo.
44:36
There are people like you out there, Shannon included, who's
44:39
for hire where you can invest a little bit.
44:42
And if that, if that is what you need to be like, OK, I want to
44:45
pay that back and then soar from there.
44:48
I also get that there's different.
44:49
Oh yeah. Different types of.
44:51
People, you can do that. You can buy a logo kit or a semi
44:58
custom brand kit and you can either customize it yourself or
45:01
you can have someone like me customize it for you.
45:04
There's just there's so many different ways that you could do
45:07
it. So good.
45:10
Now I like the way that you talk about branding and personal
45:14
brand, I find very holistic. And what I mean by that is that
45:17
it really feels like you take the whole package into
45:20
consideration. Like even when you talk about
45:21
the, the wedding planning and you're like, oh, the design,
45:24
you're not just talking about the stationery, you're talking
45:26
about like the vibe, the feeling as it pertains to a person who
45:31
is looking to like refine their own personal brand when it comes
45:36
to their confidence, their aesthetics, how they talk, what
45:40
stories they tell. Can we riff on that for a bit?
45:44
Like, give me your thoughts on that side of things, like the
45:49
how you come across at a dinner party like those.
45:51
Like, I don't even know what the question is, but I think you're
45:54
picking up what I'm throwing. Down here, I mean, I could talk
45:57
about that. I I think there's Ohgi get out
46:00
the story. I could talk about how you
46:01
present yourself in different situations, listen your audience
46:04
and know who you're speaking to. I think everybody loves a good
46:08
story. Everybody loves a good story.
46:11
And so as a personal brand, what is your story?
46:14
And it's not just, it's not, it's not your resume.
46:18
It's not here's what I can do. No, no, no.
46:20
It is you're. So boring.
46:21
The beginning of this, when I shared my story, I wasn't just
46:24
saying like, here's the jobs I've had or here, you know, it
46:28
was and it is. It's an actual story.
46:31
People love that. What's the beginning, middle.
46:33
And maybe there's not an end yet, but what are people going
46:37
to relate to you about your personal story?
46:41
Are you that tech mid level BP of a SaaS company and you want
46:48
out, You are burned out, you're done and here you are.
46:51
And what was the moment that you realized that you were burned
46:54
out? And so now what are you going to
46:55
do about it? Like, what is the story?
46:59
And then like how you present yourself coming into a room of
47:04
people, whether it's online or in person, I think like I
47:09
totally could have shown up to this recording and my hair clip
47:14
and dry shampoo everywhere and T-shirt, you know which you
47:19
know, moms, I don't know. I'm one of those who that's what
47:23
I will wear the entire afternoon, but this is not my
47:29
brand. That's not my brand.
47:30
I'm not going to show up here like that.
47:32
I'm not going to have a mess behind me during this recording.
47:37
So if you are doing that and you're building a brand, OK, and
47:41
you're filming a tick tock, a real, whatever it is, you're on
47:45
an interview. What are your what's your
47:47
surroundings? What are you presenting out to
47:48
the world? Does it match your brand?
47:51
Because people are going to see everything that you put out
47:54
there and they're going to associate it with your brand,
47:57
personal or not. They are going to associate it
47:59
with your brand. And so you've got to make sure
48:02
it all is aligning with how you want to be seen and remembered.
48:05
And because ultimately, your brand is what people are saying
48:08
about you. Oh, I love that.
48:11
I had a moment recently too, where I started the words that I
48:16
was saying about myself. I can't remember if I've talked
48:18
about this in the podcast, but I was interested in the phase like
48:22
the, it was a really busy fall, like a really fun full fall, I
48:26
will say. And I just felt like I kept
48:29
using the words like, oh, I'm, I'm in a state of chaos or like,
48:33
Oh my God, I'm so chaotic. Oh, sorry.
48:35
Oh my God, I'm, I'm all over the place.
48:37
That's what I was saying constantly.
48:39
And I was at a business mastermind with a business group
48:41
I'm a part of. And I just, we did this really
48:44
cool exercise and I just had this moment of clarity being
48:46
like, first of all, like, sure, the days are full and busy and
48:50
sometimes like I drop a ball or two, but I'm dialed.
48:53
And that's not the brand that I'm, I'm, I'm out to create a
48:58
brand that is authentic because my podcast is called all figured
49:01
out. And I do not pretend like I have
49:03
any, you know, all of it figured out, but I do have a lot of
49:07
things figured out. And my brand is also supposed to
49:09
be uplifting to say like, Hey, you might not have everything
49:12
figured out, but lean on other people, get experts in your life
49:16
to like help you fill in the gaps.
49:17
That's the whole vibe. And so by virtue of me
49:19
continuously putting myself down to other people, I actually had
49:23
this moment where I was like, am I inciting doubt in other
49:26
people? You know, am I planting that
49:28
seed that didn't even exist? Yes, yes in their brain because
49:33
I'm shit talking myself to them. And then there are ultimately
49:38
going to associate that with you and it's going to be this
49:42
negative like feeling towards you as a brand, even if it's not
49:47
intentional. Oh, it's crazy.
49:49
Like how what even the slightest little thing is going to do and
49:53
the perception people have of us, this whole lightest thing,
49:58
it's crazy. As long as technology out there
50:00
about that, it's so. Cool.
50:01
So going back to the work that you did when you were a teacher,
50:05
So what exactly? What exactly was it?
50:07
Were you in English teacher Is that?
50:08
English. Teacher OK, OK.
50:11
And so how do words like as our final thoughts as we wrap today,
50:15
like how do words written words, the words we say, like how does
50:20
that really shape our brand? Oh my gosh, it is.
50:23
I will. I, I love design.
50:27
I love design. But I will be the first person
50:30
to tell you ultimately, at the end of the day, your message,
50:34
which you were saying, whether out loud or ally or on paper,
50:39
that is the thing. That is the main thing.
50:42
That is the most important thing.
50:44
So what are you saying? And that sounds so cheesy and so
50:46
dumb, but ultimately it is more important than the look of your
50:52
brand or your personal brand because that's what people,
50:55
again, they're gonna associate it with you, but that you've got
50:59
to figure out what the message is that you're putting out
51:01
there. And that relates to the story
51:03
you were talking about. I have to ask to have you read
51:06
the story Brand 2.0? Yeah.
51:09
That is such a phenomenal book. And for anyone listening who has
51:12
it, read it. Dan Miller.
51:14
I think Dan Miller is his name, and he wrote a revised version.
51:18
Donald Miller. Donald.
51:19
Miller. Miller is somewhere over there
51:21
on my. Shoes because then I'm listening
51:22
to a podcast and he called himself Don and I was like,
51:25
whoa, you're not done. You're Donald Miller talks about
51:29
like the heroes journey and one thing that I feel like you and I
51:33
really jam on when we first met was just the putting your
51:37
customer or the person that you're with as the hero in the
51:40
story. And I thought that was so it's
51:44
just so wise And what a shift from like you see these personal
51:48
brands that make people feel like they're all about the
51:51
person, like the person you follow on Instagram.
51:54
You're like, oh, they're the hero, they're the hero.
51:56
But what I have a feeling if you, if we really drill into it
52:01
is so in the hero's journey, it is there's a guide.
52:05
And spoiler alert, Shannon is the guide.
52:08
I'm the guy. Like we're working with our
52:10
clients. We are the guides.
52:11
We are not the heroes. And what I think is like these
52:15
personal brands that we all follow, what they, the ones who
52:18
are really good, put us as the hero even though we don't
52:22
realize it. There's the thumb, thumb again,
52:25
thumb goes up, a thumb goes up. We love it.
52:28
What do you think about that? How does that relate to this
52:30
topic that we're talking about here?
52:31
So it's funny, my brand's tagline is every brand has a
52:37
muse. And around here, that's you
52:39
because I see. So you forget the clients you
52:43
work with, me for the clients I work with, I am your muse to a
52:46
point. I am your guide, but I'm guiding
52:48
you to see what you probably already have in the ideal for
52:53
me. The ideas that you have, maybe
52:55
we're refining them or maybe maybe it's something that you
52:59
don't quite realize is there, but I'm showing it to you.
53:03
But ultimately I'm getting, I'm losing track of what the
53:06
question was because I'm getting really into it, but.
53:08
No, I don't even know. I don't even know if I asked you
53:10
a question going I don't love this.
53:11
Alright, but I think not, I think it just ultimately at the
53:15
end of the day, it you are not the hero of this story of
53:21
whatever message again, the copy, the words that you're
53:23
putting out there, you are not the hero of it.
53:26
It's it's your audience, it's who you're trying to reach.
53:28
I mean, even if you think through like is your doom
53:31
scrolling at night and you're watching different tick tocks,
53:34
reels, whatever it is that you watch and these even the
53:37
lifestyle creators out there like you may be watch, I'm
53:41
thinking of one creator. She's always showing these easy
53:44
recipes for tired parents, OK. And I'm like, well, she no, she
53:49
is not the hero here. She's making me the hero because
53:53
I'm going to go get my three ingredients and make a yummy
53:55
dinner. And she is empowering me.
53:57
She's guiding me to do it. So even all the personal brands,
54:02
even all the lifestyle brands, they're not the hero.
54:06
It's it's who they're talking to or the client.
54:09
It's the customer. It's so beautiful.
54:13
I love that. It's such a, it's such a
54:14
beautiful, I don't know, you euphemism analogy of like
54:17
something to think about is like a really scalable way to think
54:20
about how to move through life. Like people who listen to this
54:24
podcast know I'm obsessed with things like negotiation and like
54:28
and career development and like or just even negotiating with
54:31
your with your little humans or with your partner.
54:34
It's like if you're positioning your needs for as the as the
54:39
only needs present and what you need and you are the hero and
54:43
help me, help me like nobody. It's just not how we work.
54:47
It's psychology 101. So I think you're so right.
54:50
I never even thought of it in terms of like, you know, that
54:53
person is making the three ingredient dinner.
54:55
They are absolutely not the hero.
54:57
They're not winning. They're having to film it.
54:59
They're having to type the caption.
55:01
There's a lot going on from them.
55:03
It's not fun. Or maybe it's probably fun for.
55:04
Them. But you are then becoming the
55:08
hero because look, Shannon has now created this beautiful 5
55:11
minute dinner with three ingredients.
55:13
Right. She's winning.
55:14
Yeah. See, that's so cool.
55:16
What it what it? What a transition.
55:19
What is next for you? What is next for Sunday Muse
55:21
Your your design studio brand? I am actually in the middle of
55:26
my own brand recalibration is what I call it because I got to
55:30
the point where I just, I got a little far away from the heart
55:35
of who and what this business is.
55:37
I became too much like every other designer out there chasing
55:40
this editorial vibe, this like modern sheet like and it's not.
55:45
And that's not the people I'm working with either.
55:48
It's like people like you and me and anyway, so I'm in the
55:52
middle. Of I'm sorry, we are modern and
55:54
chic. We are in our love to say, wait
55:55
a minute, we're modern, but we're also not uptight.
56:00
I think that's the difference. You know.
56:02
That's the difference. This is not an uptight like you
56:05
can come to a client call with me and you can be messy.
56:08
You can look messy. If you need to look me, you need
56:10
you need to cancel because your kid spilled monopoly all over
56:14
the floor and is having a meltdown.
56:15
We need we can reschedule. You know, you need to have a
56:18
call with your kids and your laptop.
56:19
That's fine. And so that's it just didn't
56:24
make sense anymore with the brand I was putting out there to
56:26
put together these women and these power suits, you know, and
56:31
the studio. I'm like, that's not what I'm
56:34
doing and that's not who I'm working with.
56:36
So I am personally in the middle of a little brand recalibration
56:39
and really ready for 20/26. And I'm just really, really
56:43
looking forward to who I get to work with in 2026.
56:46
A lot of past clients, they stay on for quarterly brand support,
56:51
which is so fun. I love continuing to support
56:55
women, but also who else comes on to the client roster.
56:58
So I was just good for you that. Is so much fun, and in addition
57:02
to your recalibration, what is something that you know between
57:06
working and parenting and life? What is something you're trying
57:09
to figure out right now? All of it.
57:12
I'm literally trying to figure out how to.
57:14
How do I manage my time in the day?
57:16
How do I get the work done? Get the workout in, get the
57:20
shower in, get the dinner clean? I'm always I'm always playing
57:23
with the schedule because I am and circles back to the
57:27
beginning of the conversation. I try so hard not to work when
57:31
she isn't with some sort of childcare or when she's not
57:34
asleep. So just always trying to figure
57:38
out how to make that work and I have not 100% figured it out.
57:43
OK. Well, we're all with you.
57:44
Yeah, we are all with you. But it sounds like you're doing
57:47
a wonderful job. Thank you so much for just being
57:50
so open, willing to just go with it.
57:52
We had plans for this episode and we I think we delivered, but
57:56
it it just went in some really cool directions that we didn't
57:59
even expect. So thank you so much, Shannon,
58:02
and I hope you have a great 2026.
58:05
Yeah, you too. Thanks, Andrea.