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Biden Shifts Into Thigh Gear · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm boundaryless Jon Lovett.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Tommy is in D.C. because he left something at the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: White House. Ha ha ha!
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And he's on vacation.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Republicans set a date for the Iowa
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: caucuses and the sprint to January begins. Ron DeSantis and
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie try out different lines of attack on Donald Trump.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And President Biden takes on his two biggest political challenges,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the economy and his age. Then Delaware congressional candidate Sarah
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: McBride chats with Lovett about her campaign and her chance
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to make history as Congress's first openly trans representative. But first...
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Big news.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Big news.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Starting today.
• 1:01
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  Speaker 1: to Crooked.com slash friends. Also, in case you missed it,
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  Speaker 1: Love It or Leave It is bringing the Errors Tour
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to New York City on July 27th and Philadelphia on
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: July 28th.
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  Speaker 2: We're going to have some amazing guests that we're going
• 2:01
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  Speaker 1: There you go. All right. Let's get to the news.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Iowa Republicans have chosen a date for the first contest
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of the 2024 election. The caucuses will be held on Monday,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: January 15th. That's also Martin Luther King Day, a nod
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to the party's passion for civil rights. And it's also
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the trial date of E. Jean Carroll's second defamation suit
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: against Donald Trump, a nod to the party's passion for
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: women's rights. So that's exciting. These caucuses will be earlier
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: than they were in 2020 and 2016 when they were
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: held in February. And that means the New Hampshire primary
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: will likely take place on January 23rd, eight days afterwards.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And then there will be a full month before the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: South Carolina primary on February 24th. Trump campaigned in Iowa
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: over the weekend where he hit Ron DeSantis on his
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: ethanol record and stopped by a Dairy Queen for what
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: was apparently the first time in his life. Let's listen.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: I'm proud to be the most pro-farmer president that you've
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: ever had in the White House. Every Iowan also needs
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: to know that Ron DeSantis totally despises Iowa ethanol and
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: ethanol generally.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Everybody wants a blizzard.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: What the hell is a blizzard? Before we get to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the serious stuff, did you want to defend Donald Trump
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: for not knowing what a blizzard is?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do. I do want to defend Donald Trump
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: on this one.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. It's not a New York thing.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: It's not a Long Island thing.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with you people?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: No, yeah.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Nothing great about New York. You're from Boston.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Do you know how many Dairy Queens we have? I'm
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: sure it's a lot. There was like two in North Reading.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And we're in a town of like 10,000 people.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's where you have your weddings and funerals. We
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: just don't have them. When I was growing up in
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Long Island, we didn't have Dairy Queens. I didn't know
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: what it was. I think they're there now. There was
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: one in Manhattan. That's gone. There is one... Dairy Queen
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: in the five boroughs right now, and it's at the
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Staten Island Ferry Terminal, which is, I think, below Yoga
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Studio and Lesbian Bar on places Trump goes. Like, so no,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: he doesn't know what a fucking blizzard is.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Does he not travel the country? The man loves fast food.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: He loves chains.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure. I mean, I think that I've earned some
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: credibility on this issue as someone with eating habits of...
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: A Midwestern Republican whose wife cries because he won't go
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: to the doctor.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: But that is precisely why it's so appalling.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: No, look.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: You should know better.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I should know better.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You could recite the Cheesecake Factory menu by heart.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I really could. I really could.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: We went to Culver's. You knew your way around Culver's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: when we were in Wisconsin.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I did. I felt like a real expert.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: So you should get some blizzards.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Anyway.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Anyway. Everyone was also sharing a Biden tweet from 2019
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: where Biden was in a Dairy Queen and he knew
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: what a blizzard was. And he took the blizzard, he
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: tipped it upside down, which is what you do to.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's apparently what the people do.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Then he was offering it to everyone, but not Donald Trump.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's great that Donald Trump and Joe Biden
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: are both two old guys who've had extremely weird lives,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: but then can, like, try to do relatable... They both
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: do relatable stuff well.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I think that Joe Biden has had a less weird
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: life than Donald Trump in terms of, like, regular people stuff.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I will say that. I think he's... That's not just
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: being partisan. I actually think he's had a much more...
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even say that about Barack Obama.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: But like Joe Biden.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: So anyway, let's talk about Iowa. So Trump lost Iowa
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to Ted Cruz in 2016. I remember Trump lost Iowa
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in 2016. I had forgotten until I was prepping for
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: this that it was to Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz won something.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Isn't that weird?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, but he sort of, it was, I believe like
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like a clean win. It wasn't like we
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: knew right away. It was like, it got kind of like.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like a shadow app win or anything.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, not as bad as a shadow app win.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Not as bad as what we did to help Buttigieg
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: lose to Bernie, I believe is.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: What we did.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what we did. But yeah, Ted Cruz
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: won Iowa and the momentum made him, as we all remember, unstoppable.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So Trump lost Iowa and then he steamrolled the rest
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: of the early states on the way to the nomination.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: How important do you think the state is for him
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: this time around?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Sort of a tough question to answer. We'll talk a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: little about the Harry Enten story about Iowa versus New Hampshire.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It it just right now, if you look at the
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: polling and the polling at the state level is like
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: pretty spare right now, it's hard to rely on. But
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: right now, if you look at it, you can kind
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of squint your eyes. And what you see is Trump
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: is dominating nationally. He's above 50. And maybe in Iowa,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: New Hampshire, he's also dominating in some polls above 50.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: But maybe there's like a little bit of weakness based
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: on campaigning. Now, beyond that, can you say that Iowa
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: is going to matter? New Hampshire is going to matter?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I just I don't think we know right now.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's two schools of thought on Iowa.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: One is if Trump wins that state after losing it
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: in 2016. and having been the frontrunner nationally for the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: whole race, and having been basically the closest thing to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: an incumbent, he's like a quasi-incumbent, then the momentum makes
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: him pretty tough to beat. But I was thinking about this,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and this could also happen. Trump wins Iowa. Everyone else
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: in the race, but maybe the second or third place finisher,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: drops out after Iowa. And then people start thinking, oh,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: you know, Trump's going to win the nomination. New Hampshire does...
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: what New Hampshire often does and does the opposite of Iowa.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And then I didn't realize now there's going to be
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a full month between New Hampshire and South Carolina. So
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: at that point, then Trump has multiple court dates and
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the media at that point gets bored of the, okay,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Trump won Iowa, maybe Trump won New Hampshire, or maybe
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: he got, you know, someone got a little closer in
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Now there's a whole month between South Carolina.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Now I do think at that point, like who's strong
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: enough to beat Trump in South Carolina. That's where it
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: gets tricky. But I do think that month gets, that
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: month is trickier for Trump.
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: But the point you made in the middle there about
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: his legal troubles, it's just.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Then everyone gets, the Republicans get all.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Well, it's more that like, yes, there are some external
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: factors that might weaken Trump in ways that are outside
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of his control. But in the end, the result will
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: be less about the tactics of what was the sequence and,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: you know, which candidates mounted a fight in New Hampshire
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: versus Iowa versus South Carolina and more about like the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: underlying conditions of the race in which at some point
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: something happened that made Trump weaker than he is right now.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let's talk about that Harry Enten piece you mentioned.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: He's an analyst at CNN, just wrote a piece arguing
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that Trump's opponents might have more luck in New Hampshire
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: than Iowa because the data shows voters there are more
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: moderate and more college educated and wealthier than they are
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: in Iowa. What would you think of Harry's argument?
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: No bad ideas in a brainstorm. Yeah, I mean, look,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: so the challenge there is it's like Donald Trump starts
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: in a much stronger position now than he was in 2016.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: If you look at the polling out of New Hampshire
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: in 2016, by July of 2015, roughly where we are
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: right now, Trump was starting to just dominate in those
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: polls roughly in the 30s. He stayed there, did not
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: move till election day in which he got in the 30s. Now,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: John Kasich, we all remember him, and that was his
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: best and final of in Ohio.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: The next time we saw him was in the Democratic
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: National Convention video.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So so he was on his personal journey. But so
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: you have to look at that and say, OK, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: think the point Harry's making seems right, which is Trump's
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: coalition has shifted. The group of people he put together
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: to win in 2016 will look different than the group
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: of people he will put together in 2024. The mix
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: will shift more conservative. But the problem is that shift
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: belies strength across the board and across these categories. And
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: so then you look at what happened in 2016 and
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you say, all right, well, Ted Cruz, where did he
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: do well? He did well in your places like Idaho
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and Kansas and Iowa, the place that kind of drew
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: out the more conservative and evangelical voters. Now you're starting
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: from saying that Trump's going to do better with those people, right?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: He's going to put together a coalition of some of
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: his voters now, most of them say, plus some of
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the Ted Cruz voters. That leaves an opening, an opening
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: for what? Someone's going to cobble together people that have
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: left Trump plus the Kasich group. So then you're going
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to start looking where? You're going to look to New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Illinois, Virginia.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Except for New Hampshire, by the time you get to
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: those states, it's like, it's over by then.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: So I don't, I just don't understand how the math
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: is going to work when maybe there is some weakness
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: there in groups that he'd been strong with in the past,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: but his overall weakness domination, just it has to change.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Something in the current makeup of the Republican electorate has
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: to shift in a big way, in a way that
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: is bigger than tactically choosing between Iowa and New Hampshire,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: which right now we're kind of moving together anyway.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Harry makes two points, right, of note. Iowa
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: hasn't been good at picking Republican nominees in primary season
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: since 1980 that didn't feature a Republican incumbent. The Iowa
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: winner went on to win the nomination only twice. Dole
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: in 96 and W in 2000, though notably in both cases,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: they had been the front runner before Iowa, which Trump is.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire in the same time period picked five out
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: of seven. But here's the thing about the New Hampshire electorate.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: It is more moderate than Iowa. It is more college educated.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: All those stats are right. Even if you look at
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: polls right now, I think there was a St. Anselm's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: poll from late June that showed like Christie is in
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: third now at 5% or 6% in New Hampshire. And
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Christie's winning among, or Christie's doing a lot better among
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: more moderate voters, among Democrats who might vote in the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Republican primary, among college-educated voters. That still is like leaving
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: him at 5% to 6% for now. But then I
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: was thinking about New Hampshire. Think about 2022 in the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Senate race. New Hampshire Republican voters nominated crazy Don Bolduc
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: over Chuck Morse. Boldik, for everyone who forgets this, was
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: an election denier who wanted to abolish the FBI, called
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Chris Sununu, the very popular Republican governor of New Hampshire,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a Chinese communist sympathizer. Boldik had no money, didn't run
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a single ad on television. And meanwhile, Chuck Morse focused
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: most of his attacks on Maggie Hassan, not on Boldik.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And his super PAC still ran millions and millions of
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: dollars of ads against Bolduc, and Bolduc won. So clearly,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the Republican electorate in a midterm in New Hampshire is
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: probably more conservative than in a presidential primary, particularly because
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I think independents and Democrats can vote in the New
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Hampshire Republican primary, so that could screw with it a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: little bit. But there is a Republican electorate in New
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Hampshire that is all in for election denying crazy people.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you kind of like, you kind of sort
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, go across like New England into
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: upstate New York and you see like, this is what
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Elise Stefanik has been grappling with in upstate New York.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: There is a Trumpy, Northeast Republican that is all in
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: on this.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And they're not evangelical Christians, right? They're not like social
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: conservatives in that way. I mean, some of them are,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: but it's Trumpy in a different way.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And look, and Don Bolduc did not beat Chuck, Morse
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: by a lot, but he beat him by a couple
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: of points. He beat him by enough.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And again, Trump overall is stronger today than he was
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: in 2016. And so what you're saying is not just
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: that what you're seeing is a weakness in groups that
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: he was strong in the past. You have to find
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: so much weakness that it overcomes the advantages he's already
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: bringing to the table. Because does anyone think right now
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: that if the election was held in Idaho or Kansas,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: that Donald Trump is not going to pick up all
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: those evangelical voters that in the past he lost. Even
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: like there's very little good polling out there. But you
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: go to Florida, you don't find good DeSantis polls. You know,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: you go everywhere. His his it's the kind of like
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: robustness of Trump's coalition that I think is making this
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: a little people are afraid to say it's sort of uneventful.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: But that's how it feels.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Which is why I like Harry's point about the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the difference in the electorates between the two states demographically
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: is correct.
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: But if you are a Republican running against Donald Trump
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and you have to figure out a strategy, it's to me,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: it makes more sense that your strategy is I have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to stop him in Iowa because if Trump loses in Iowa,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: then maybe some of those Trumpy New Hampshire voters are like, oh, well,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis just won Iowa. Maybe he's a winner now.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: We've been calling him a loser for a year, but
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: maybe now he's a winner and maybe Trump's not the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: right guy to do this. And, you know, he's he's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: going to be on trial and maybe there's distractions and blah, blah, blah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And so I think the That's their best hope of
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: stopping Trump and then hoping that in New Hampshire they
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: pick up some of those voters.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: But I think that I think that's all true. But
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: it's just where we are right now. It could obviously change.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You would not say right now that where this is
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: being won or lost is on tactics like, oh, if
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: only I'd started in New Hampshire versus Iowa. Trump has
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to be fundamentally weakened as a candidate, either by his
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: own failings or by some outside force, a legal that
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: he does not control of. And. One of these people
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: has to catch fire. Both of those things has to happen.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Right now, neither one's happening. So it doesn't matter where
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you fucking campaign.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I mean, of all the things you just mentioned,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the only thing you can control as a candidate, if
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you're one of these other Republican candidates, is your own
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: strategy and your own tactics, right?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the message, right? The story you're telling.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: The message, but also where you put your resources, right? Like,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: where are you going to run most of your ads?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Where are you going to spend all the money on advertising?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: What are you going to say about Donald Trump? How
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: hard are you going to go with Donald Trump? All
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: those decisions will lead you to either focus heavily on
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Iowa or New Hampshire. I mean, it was like us
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: in 08, right? We were like, if we don't stop
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Hillary in Iowa, there's no Obama campaign. So like everything
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: goes into Iowa.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Of course. But what I'm getting at is none of
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: these campaigns, none of these campaigns have figured out a
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: story to tell in Iowa or a story to tell
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: in New Hampshire. And so it's just before we've gotten to, hey,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: where do we want to put our money? It doesn't,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: right now we're, they are so far from having any
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: hope of getting any traction in either state that's like,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: It's like, let's not worry about tactics right now. You're
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: all foundering.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the stories that they're telling. There's
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a new mail piece being sent to Iowans back in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Iowa from a group called Advance Our Values that the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: mail piece thanks Trump for standing up for LGBTQ rights.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: It calls him a transgender trailblazer and notes that he
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: got a standing ovation for affirming gay rights at a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Mar-a-Lago log cabin Republicans event. It seems like from looking
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: at the mail piece, it's like a less homophobic, homoerotic
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: version of the DeSantis ad.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: That we talked about last week. Which is why I'm
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: so conflicted about it. Do you think it's any more effective?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: First of all, love a dirty trick that makes Trump
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: seem cool as hell. That is awesome.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: So the piece is, go Google it because it's just like.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It's so ham-fisted.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Rainbow behind Trump and Trump's like thumbs up.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know who this is for.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know who this is for. Also, this is
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: like the longest tale of a stupid fucking 2016 news cycle. Remember,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: there was that news cycle where Trump was going to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: be pro-gay and that was a whole story. And I
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: was like, no, he's not. He's been anti-gay marriage since
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the year 2000. And so it's the longest tale since
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: that news cycle. We just went through, what is it,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: a week or a week and a half ago. His
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court handed yet another victory to the right. on
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the anti-discrimination law in Colorado. I don't know who's persuaded
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: by this. As you've pointed out, this thing's not being
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: won on policy right now anyway.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I don't even know which Republican voter is like, oh,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court handed... Thanks to Donald Trump, the Supreme
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Court handed us a victory because now someone... can't get
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a website for their gay marriage.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Well, the point being, no one is consuming any news
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: that's saying Donald Trump is pro-gay. I don't know what
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: hyper-engaged Iowa voter who's trying to figure out who to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: vote for in July, six months before anybody votes, is
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: being persuaded by a mail like this. So it just
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: feels silly.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know who... Forget about hyper-engaged voters. I don't
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: know who just woke up yesterday from a five-year coma
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: would believe that Donald Trump is a transgender trailblazer. It
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: just doesn't really... Not subtle. Not subtle. It doesn't really pass.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I like the dirty tricks where they say election day
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: is Wednesday. Don't forget to show up.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: So there's another group called Win It Back. The people
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: running it have some ties to Club for Growth. This
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: group is launching a multimillion dollar ad campaign in Iowa
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and South Carolina with a different anti-Trump message. Let's listen
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: to the TV ad.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: I'm not really a fan of what's going on right now.
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: I mean, the Democrats are just unbelievable.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It's a mess.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: It's a hot mess. I love Donald Trump. I love
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: what he did. Once he got in, I thought it
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: was a breath of fresh air. He was attacked all
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: the time, and it seemed like, you know, it just
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: seemed nonstop, the drama. It affected my feelings.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Family.
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, with my own sister, I didn't
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: get invited to her Thanksgiving after a while. He's got
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: so many distractions, the constant fighting, something every day. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure he can focus on moving the country forward.
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: The election is really important because we're going in the
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: wrong direction. I mean, we definitely need somebody that can
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: freaking win. I think you'd probably lose that bet if
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: you voted for Trump. You want somebody as smart who
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: actually knows how to build teams to solve issues, focus
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: on the issues that really need to be fixed.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: When a backpack is responsible for the content of this ad.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: What a cuck that guy is. What do you think
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: about that message?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of one of, like, those dog trainers,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the dogs that have, like, that are just like huddled
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: in the corner, scared of all people. They're like, come on,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: come on over here. It's okay. You'll be okay.
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: Come on over.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: You're all right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I'm okay. I'm not dangerous. I'm all right. Come on over.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Think about it. Think about it. It's, at least as
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: an argument, I do think it's like, you feel the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: grappling with what the candidates are all grappling with, which
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: is in order for anyone to make any headway, some
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: of this has to be made, some argument has to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: be made against Trump to people that love Trump. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: they're at least experimenting with like, even all of the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: words are clearly just so carefully chosen to be a
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: little bit sanded off, sound a little bit normal to
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: try to find a normal vernacular for discussing why Trump
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: is weak. So in that sense, I think it's it's
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: it's a it's the argument that they need to be making.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because I totally agree with that. And
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I think I think it is probably the best message
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: about Trump for a Republican audience of voters who are
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: open to supporting another Republican other than Trump. And so
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: if you are someone and I'm sure this is this
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: ad was made by people who listen to focus groups
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: of Republican voters who are not like diehard Trump people
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: and are definitely voting for Trump and ad makers and
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: consultants and all the rest. And so I think it's
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: all put together. But almost the ad, as good of
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a message as it is, almost underscores the bigger problem,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: which is that like you can't beat something with nothing.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And there's no like you need an alternative to what
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: that guy's saying that is appealing to those voters. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: all that he offered in the ad is someone who
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: can put together a team, someone who puts together a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: team and focus on issues and not drama, which is like, again,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: these are all the issues that people have with Trump, right?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Like he, it's chaotic. He fired all these people in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the White House. They all turned on him. Everything was
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: drama all the time. He wasn't focused on blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: But like, So then what's the alternative?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I didn't even get that.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I think that's all true. But I was what I
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: was stuck on is, OK, great. You're slowly easing Republican
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: voters into an argument like a like a bath. Is
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: there enough time for this level of subtlety? Like they're
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: trying to like soften this group of people. And it
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: feels like this was the work that they just did
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: not do for years.
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: This is trying to undo six and a half or
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: more years of just total uncertainty. obsequiousness and a refusal
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: to make this kind of argument.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: And I just, I mean, it's tough because I don't
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: think you can undo that with Donald Trump is an asshole, right?
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Because not that I would say that, but something like that,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: because clearly Republican voters love Donald Trump. And even if
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: they're going to back another Republican for the nomination, it's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: not going to be because they suddenly decided, Oh wait,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: we hate Trump. Actually, you know, it's going to be like,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: It's going to be what that guy– it's giving people
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: a permission structure, which that guy did at the beginning,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: which was like, oh, I love Donald Trump too and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I liked what he did in his office. But then
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it got a little crazy. But it's still– like you said,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: it's still not sharp enough.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that if an argument like this is
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: going to work, it's not going to be just because
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: of ads like this. It's going to be because of–
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and this is why I think the ad is– good
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: it is designed to replicate conversations they think people are
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: having like real conversations that people are having in the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: world now those conversations are going on they really are
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: right you hear about them they just that this clearly
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: this is born of focus groups that had a group
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: of republican mostly trump voters or a mix of trump
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: voters who talked about it in this way and they're
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: trying to push that conversation but you know we i
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: think that we just don't know like Is there any
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: kind of momentum to that? Can that take on a
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: life of its own and create space for another candidate?
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And then one of them has to actually say why
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: they should be president.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: The key is that you need a candidate. So let's
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: talk about the Republicans who are ostensibly trying to beat
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump in the primary. Ron DeSantis' campaign just announced
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they raised $ 20 million in his first six weeks as
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: a candidate, while his super PAC has raised $ 130 million
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: since March. Some of that was transferred from his time
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: as from the super PAC when he was governor. The
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: New York Times also had a story over the weekend
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: about how Iowa's very popular governor, like very, very popular
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: with Republicans, especially Kim Reynolds, who has said that she
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: will not endorse in the primary election. is being viewed
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: by Trump's team as neutral in name only when it
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: comes to Ron DeSantis. Now, of course, after this New
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: York Times article, then Donald Trump today was truthing up
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: a storm about how like Kim Reynolds sucks. So not
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: really subtle what he, what team Trump thinks of Kim Reynolds.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I think you saw the story. I think you literally
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: just saw the story.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Despite all this, Trump has still raised about $ 15 million
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: more than Ron DeSantis over a longer period of time,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: but still. has a lot more endorsements, and is beating
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: him by double digits in every state poll and national poll.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: So when Maria Barbaromo asked DeSantis about his struggling campaign
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: over the weekend, here's what he said.
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: But here's this weekend's headline from the Politico playbook. Failure
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: to launch Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' campaign to topple Donald
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: Trump has stalled. We are way behind, says a top
• 26:10
  Speaker 7: DeSantis PAC official sounding the alarm.
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: What happened?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Ha ha ha.
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: Oh, Maria, these are narratives. The media does not want
• 26:20
  Speaker 8: me to be the nominee. I think that's very, very clear.
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: Because they know I'll beat Biden. But even more importantly,
• 26:26
  Speaker 8: they know I will actually deliver on all these things.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: First of all, I think we need to clip the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: laugh and just play it every time we talk about
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: It's like if Goofy had a book burning. Does that
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: make any sense to anybody?
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: There was a Disney joke in there, too, somewhere.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But anyway, we'll figure it out. Is that believable at all,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' spin?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's been that, you know, the media doesn't
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: want him to win. The media doesn't want him to
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: have his, he's going to succeed if he wins is
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: obviously ridiculous. But where I do, like, I do think
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: he is right. It must be extremely frustrating for to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: be trying to make a case against Donald Trump. And
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: every question is about why you can't and won't make
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: an effective case against Donald Trump. Like that is a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: shitty doom loop for any candidate to be in though.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: He needs like, that is the environment. That is what
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: is happening. People are following around waiting for him to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: seem weird and fuck up.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And he's in that doom loop because he has been
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: making shitty arguments about Donald Trump and is quite strange. Also,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was thinking back to, again, how many
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: interviews like this Barack Obama had in 2007. And the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: part of our spin that was a little more believable
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: is that in those state polls, particularly in Iowa, not
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: so much in New Hampshire, but in Iowa, we were
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: a lot closer to Hillary than Ron DeSantis is to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump right now. And I think if DeSantis... it's
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: getting late to say it's still early, but I guess
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you could say that. If he was closer in some
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: of these state polls, maybe he could, you know, maybe
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: it's a little more believable. And if people didn't just,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: just didn't know him yet, but his name ID is
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: so high and his favorability rating, which I thought would
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: help him among Republican voters is also quite high. His
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: favorability rating nationally is bad, which doesn't bode well for
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: his electability argument anymore. But among Republican voters, It's looking
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: like they like Ron DeSantis just fine, but they're just
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: not sold on him as the candidate. How much do
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: you think it matters that DeSantis does seem to have
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of money and might have the quiet
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: support of Kim Reynolds?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: John, I think we all remember how big of an
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: influence Terry Branstad had on the 2016 primary. You remember
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: what he said, right? Why don't you tell the people
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: what Terry Branstad said in 2016?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I barely remember Terry Branstad.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You don't remember the legendary influence of former Iowa Republican
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Governor Terry Branstad?
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I also didn't know that Trump made him ambassador to China.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, Trump did make him ambassador to China, which I
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: didn't realize either, which is strange. Well, I think so.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Right before the Iowa caucuses, Terry Branstad was asked, do
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: you think Iowa should vote against Ted Cruz because his
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: position on ethanol? And he said yes. So he didn't
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: endorse anybody, but he endorsed voting against Ted Cruz, who
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: won the Iowa caucus. So, you know, the influence of
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: an endorsement, even from a popular governor, maybe it helps, but.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Also, let me tell you what Kim Reynolds is going
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to do here. Kim Reynolds is... Maybe she's supporting DeSantis
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: right now. She's not an idiot. She's not going to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: come out and say she supports DeSantis when he is
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: shitting the bed. If DeSantis catches fire and then suddenly realizes...
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: close to Trump in the polls, as we get closer
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to IACOC, maybe she shows some political courage and comes
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: out and endorses DeSantis, but she's not going to do
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it now. So he's not going to have her support
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: unless something changes. And it's not her endorsement that's going
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: to make something change.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I guess like, what is he, he's getting
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: restaurant recs?
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Like what's he getting from this?
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So I don't know that that helps that much. What
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: do you think about the money?
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: You know, national ad campaigns can't save terrible movies that
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: soon bomb and the money would matter. It all, look,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis, he is a fundamentally unappealing person, but his
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: argument's bad. So, you know, you got to get one
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: of those things right. Look, we all, like, there have
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: been charismatic politicians and... They're not always the best speakers.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, you would say, is one of them. Joe
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Biden can be one of them, but they don't always
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: make the best argument. And then there are politicians that
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: are super mild-mannered and nerdy and kind of not the
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: most charismatic people, but they're methodical and disciplined and smart
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: and effective. What are we getting at? What does Ron
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: DeSantis bring to the table here? I don't care how
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: much money you have.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: No, I think the money ensures that he can stay
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: in the race for as long as he wants to
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: embarrass himself. So... because there's a lot of these candidates
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that either drop out before Iowa because they just didn't
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: have the money, or they don't do well in Iowa
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and then they drop out. You have as much money
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: as Ronda Santos, you could probably stay in for a
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: little while, right?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: When is Florida? When is the Florida vote?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably, it's either Super Tuesday or after.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: But it's either March or after that.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I think even before that, I think once, again, this
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: month between New Hampshire and South Carolina. I think once
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: South Carolina and then Nevada happen, you're sort of in... Right.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Unless something fundamentally changes and suddenly it's a neck-and-neck race
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: between Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, in which case it's
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: a long primary, which, you know, could happen. Unless you're
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: in that scenario, then, like I said, Ron DeSantis... We're
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: not sticking around.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Which, in this case, having a giant war chest won't
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: matter anyway.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: And remember, Jeb Bush's super PAC spent $ 100 million. $ 100 million.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: And.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Just, it is amazing to think back to 2016 and
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: look at that and say, man, if only Republicans had
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: an alternative as charismatic as Jeb Bush.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: No, it's like if Jeb Bush were, had the same
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: level of charisma, but was a bigger asshole.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. He's a, yeah. Okay.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: That's what Ron DeSantis is so far.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree with that.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Now, Chris Christie, our boy Chris Christie, he continues to
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: take a different approach to Trump than DeSantis or the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: rest of the field. Here he is on Fox News
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: responding to Trump's Iowa event.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: He doesn't care about the American people. He droned on
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: for an hour and a half yesterday in Iowa. He
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: lied about the farm deal with the Chinese. They haven't
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: even complied with a quarter of what they agreed to
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump to do. in terms of buying soybeans and
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: other things from the farmers in Iowa. And he spent
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: the rest of the time talking about his own indictment.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: This is not somebody who's fighting for the American people
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: and their future. This is all about his ego. What
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: he cares about the most is trying to undo the
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: loss he had to Joe Biden in 2020. But since
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: he's a three-time loser, having lost in 2018 the House
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: of Representatives, lost the White House and the Senate in 2020,
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: and in 2022, he wound up losing two more governorships,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: another seat in the Senate, and we barely won the
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: House by five votes, when in fact, you know, you
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: had a president whose popularity was at 35%. So he's
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: in this for himself.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And himself only.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I could guess that at Mesh's box.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Here is what's interesting about that to me, because we
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: just talked about that ad from the Win It Back
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Super PAC ad, which we both decided was not quite
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: sharp enough. Chris Christie is doing the opposite of that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: He does not have DeSantis' money polling. Not that it's
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: that enviable, but he's still not polling like DeSantis. Or endorsements.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: But do you think his message, now that he has
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: a story, he has a message, could it ultimately help
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: him vault ahead of DeSantis?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Well, look, it's actually the same criticism that we had
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of that ad, even though this is a sharper argument.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: It is an argument against Donald Trump. It is not
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: an argument for Chris Christie, one of his chief lackeys
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and toadies, until the moment Trump personally tried to fucking
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: kill him. So will Republicans hear what Chris Christie says?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Will it lead to people to say,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and therefore he's the person I want? You hear an
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: argument like that from Chris Christie and you find it compelling.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know why that leads you to vote for
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Chris Christie versus Ron DeSantis. It makes you look for
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: an alternative. But whether or not it's just... Look, if
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: what Chris Christie is saying catches any traction at all,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: it is an open question as to whether it leads
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: people to come to him or just lead people to
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: look to anyone but Trump.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if Chris Christie is truly... on a
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: kamikaze mission and nothing else, then that's that, right?
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: If Chris Christie genuinely believes that there's a chance he
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: could win this thing, then the only strategy I can
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: imagine here is, all right, I will kick the shit
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: out of Donald Trump because I need to do that,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: number one, to make the argument. And number two, I
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: need to get attention. And that'll get him the attention.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: And then once you get the attention, then you start
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: making the case for yourself. That's the only strategy that
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I can think of there. The problem for him, of course, is...
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: his unfavorables with Republican voters are quite high, except in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire, he's doing a little bit better because of
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: that electorate, as we talked about.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: And because he's there. He's really there. But by the way,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: that's what he did in 2016. He lived in New Hampshire.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Right. 55% of Republican voters in New Hampshire think the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: election was stolen from Donald Trump. This is back to
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: our New Hampshire, not so moderate conversation. So if you
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: have that support, or at least you have that many
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: people as election deniers in New Hampshire and you're Chris Christie,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: now you see that this is the conundrum that they
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: all face. Even if they are all running perfect campaigns
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and are great candidates with stories or whatever else, is
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: that they are dealing with an electorate where the majority
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: of the Republican electorate loves Donald Trump, thinks he did
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: great as president, and thinks he actually won the last election.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And if that's what they think, then why would they
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: go for someone else? I mean, that's the problem. And
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: in the NBC poll nationally, Christie's favorability is among Republican voters,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: 13% favorable, 43% unfavorable.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: So that's what's tough.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have to think, okay, you're counting on
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the fact. So you say, all right, let's say Trump is,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: you say Trump is sub 50 in New Hampshire. You're
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: working with a little bit over a majority that is
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: still undecided between the alternatives. And in fairness to people
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: that believe there's a possibility, in the same way we
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: were saying DeSantis' name ID is high, Donald Trump's name
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: ID is 100%. So if there are people in New
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Hampshire being asked who they're going to vote for and
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: they're not saying Donald Trump, that means something, right? Very
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: easy to say you're going to vote for Donald Trump
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: right now. They're not. Then you say, okay, yes, a
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: majority of people in the Republican primary now say that
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: the election was stolen, but they also have been trained
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: by their boss to perform loyalty on this question. This
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: is a shibboleth for demonstrating your fealty to the Republican cause.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: And that those people, while they may say that and
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: even maybe think that, it's not the most important issue
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to them. The most important issue to them is winning.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And so then the case has to be from Chris Christie.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Not only is Donald Trump weak, not only does he
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: not deliver, not only is he going to lose, I'm
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the one that's going to win. And here's how I
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: do it. I'm a more charismatic and interesting and popular
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and moderate seeming Ron DeSantis.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: And like, let's do Chris Christie's Fantasy scenario, the best
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: case for Chris Christie, right? So Ron DeSantis, his campaign
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: just collapses and we see that in Iowa, right? And
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump wins Iowa. Ron DeSantis either comes in second
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: or third, maybe even worse. And everyone else is out
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: of money. And so you get the Tim Scotts and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the Nikki Haley's, maybe they drop out at this point
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: or maybe they're out of money or whatever else. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: then you go to New Hampshire and now Chris Christie's saying, okay,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, me and Donald Trump one-on-one and somehow Chris
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Christie pulls off a win in New Hampshire.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Or it's close, right? Or he does better. So in 2016, Iowa, yes,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Ted Cruz wins Iowa, but it was by a couple
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: points with Trump and Rubio right behind. They go to
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: New Hampshire and it's not just that, yeah, Trump only gets,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: so Trump gets 35% in New Hampshire, not exactly a blowout,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: but the nearest person is John Kasich, who's almost 20
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: points behind him With Cruz and Rubio barely breaking 10.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump defeated them after losing in Iowa, which gave
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: him momentum going from there. But if you can imagine
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Trump wins out of Iowa, he goes to New Hampshire.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: There's a surprising finish for one other person like Chris Christie.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Then there's a whole period of time to campaign before
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: they end up in South Carolina.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: But that's the problem.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: But it's South Carolina.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Let's just pretend Chris Christie wins New Hampshire that he
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't even come in second. He's the winner of the
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire primary. And then he's going to go to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: South Carolina and face that electorate, which is like, that's
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: not a Chris Christie electorate.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're booing Lindsey Graham at Trump rallies. It's not
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: his space.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So that's. why it's tough. Now, let's go back to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis. So let's say Ron DeSantis just starts talking
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: like Chris Christie. How does that work out?
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there is something about DeSantis is trying. He is
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: DeSantis is a smart person. It's the one thing I
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: guess he has. He's trying to put together an argument
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: that is against Trump, that implies and then gives him
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: a chance to make the argument he has for himself.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: The Chris Christie argument right now is just pure anti-Trump.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: He doesn't ever come back to if he does, it
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't get picked up. But the core of his argument
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is just anti-Trump. And it doesn't really reflect well on him.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: DeSantis' anti-Trump argument is meant to be a mirror of
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: his pro-DeSantis argument. So, yeah, I mean, I guess if
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: DeSantis seemed a little bit more folksy and charismatic and
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: off the cuff while making a slightly sharper version, that's
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: still possible. that still was kind of trying to make
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the argument for how great he is and how well
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: he's done in Florida. It couldn't be worse than what
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: DeSantis is doing right now.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: What DeSantis is doing right now is running a version
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: of the Cruz campaign from 2016 when Ted Cruz was like,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's not the real conservative, social conservative. He's this
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Manhattan billionaire, right? And I'm the real conservative and I'm
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the evangelical. And DeSantis is trying to run to Donald
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Trump's right on that. And I think that's dumb because
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think that Republican voters are voting based on
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: policy or even ideology at this point, traditional social conservative ideology.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I think what Christie has that's smart in his message
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: is that Donald Trump is in it for himself. And
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: part of that, like, you know, it's the drama, which
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the guy was getting at in that ad, right? There's
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: too much drama around Trump. And if I was Ron DeSantis,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I would be saying Donald Trump is in it for himself.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And look at me. Look what I did in Florida.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I'm in it for people. These are the victories that
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I delivered. And this guy, he only cares about himself.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: He only cares about his own shit all the time.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: He's selfish. And I'm actually, you know, going to deliver
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: on stuff for you. As opposed to trying to position
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: himself to Trump's right on thing, which I just don't
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: think people are going to believe. And I don't necessarily
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: think it's going to work.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's, I think DeSantis, I think it's
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit more nuanced than that because I think
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: that's one piece of it. I think he's trying and
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: it's not mattering to kind of just outflank Trump on
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: policy and just take that off the table. I am
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the true conservative. If those are what you, these are
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: the issues you care about, I'm your person. Turns out,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: not a lot of meat on that bone. But he
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: is also making an argument, does it in the book,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: he was doing it, he was doing it in his
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: some speech around not having chaos, around keeping your head
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: down and just getting things done, delivering.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Like these are all- That's not coming through, you're right.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: That is part of his argument. It is, but it is, yes,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: but- His argument now is, you know, transgender trailblazer.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, listen, we don't know. Well, the ad. The
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: other ad from him, yeah. Yes, the other ad from him, yes.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: And then there's Casey DeSantis with just this unhinged mama.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: They're coming for your children.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: They're coming for your children's thing, which is just a reminder. Look,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: we can disagree on certain things as a country. You
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: can't let a Disney adult within 100 fucking miles of
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the White House. That's dangerous. It's dangerous. Casey DeSantis is dangerous.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: This is a video that, for people who don't know,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the video that the DeSantis campaign put out, that Casey
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: DeSantis tweeted that's just all about, like, you know, Fauci
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to, like, forcibly mask our children. It's got kids
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: crying with masks on and, you know, like, gay pride
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: parades and it's very.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's very, it's just, you know, it's... It's
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: a little over-torqued.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's... It's a little over-torqued.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: It's like, It's anti-trans, anti-gay, anti-science fash porn, I guess.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: It's just this very... She was the one who put
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: out that video that was like, on the eighth day,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: God sent a fighter. Which is basically saying that literally
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis is God's gift to us.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: So I would say that... God's a shitty gift giver.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: It's like, is there a gift receipt in the bag?
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: God....
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: But I don't think her judgment is often state of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the art.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: No.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's talk about our pal Joe Biden.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: He's in Europe this week for a meeting with King
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Charles and a NATO summit, neither of which we're going
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: to talk about since it's timed perfectly with Tommy's vacation.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: But the president did have a busy couple of days
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: before he left. He visited a clean energy manufacturing company
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina, Republican Congressman Joe Wilson's district. Yeah, that
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Joe Wilson. a company that's adding jobs because of the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act that Wilson voted against. And Biden got
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: a pretty good laugh when he announced that he'll be
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: visiting another Republicans district soon.
• 44:14
  Speaker 9: Since I took office, we've seen over 60 domestic manufacturing
• 44:17
  Speaker 9: announcements all across the solar supply chain. One of the
• 44:21
  Speaker 9: biggest is in Dalton, Georgia. You may find it hard
• 44:25
  Speaker 9: to believe, but that's Marjorie Taylor Greene's district. I'll be
• 44:33
  Speaker 9: there for the groundbreaking.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: What do you think of Biden's strategy of doing events
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: in these districts held by Republicans who voted against various
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: parts of his agenda?
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: I'll start by saying one thing that I didn't understand
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: about politics until I moved to D.C. and started working
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: in politics is how much of official Washington congressional offices,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Senate offices, the White House, How much of it is
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out ways to get the media to
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: talk about policy? Just day in and day out. Press releases, events,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer going to a gas station every Sunday.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Your favorite example.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: My favorite example. Just like everybody trying to figure out
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: a way to get coverage on, you know, the stuff
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: that's less fun and less easy to cover than polling
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: and all the rest. And this is just a great
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: way to do that. It just, it gets pickup. It's funny.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: It highlights Republican opposition to very, very popular things. It
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: gets and otherwise politically not interesting trip for reporters to
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: seem more interesting. So it's like, it's great.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: So I don't think that people, voters generally care, unfortunately,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: about charges of hypocrisy.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: No.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Because the idea that, oh, a Republican voted against this
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: bill and then went to the groundbreaking and took credit
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: for the clean energy facility that's getting more money and
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: creating jobs. What a fucking surprise. And I think people
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: think that about Democrats, too. Voters are very cynical about
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: politicians in general. But I do think that voters care
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: or voters can care about Biden's message that he is
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: helping people and creating jobs in places that did not
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: vote for him. And that is a very good contrast
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump and possibly Ron DeSantis, whose message basically
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: is like, we are running for president of red America
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and red America only. And if you don't vote for us,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: we're not for you. We're not going to help you out.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Fuck off. And Biden is trying to go out there
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and say like, you can vote for me. You cannot
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: vote for me. I'm still going to come to your
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: district and I'm still going to try to help you out.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm still going to try to make your life easier.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all true. But even before you
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: get to that, which is actually like a, like, a
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: slightly more sophisticated understanding of what's happening beyond just, hey,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: this bill you may have heard a little bit about,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: it is good. It has good things for our state.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: You might not have known that before now. Hey, there's
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: a local news coverage that's going to show you that
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: we're groundbreaking on something you didn't realize was going to
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: be affected by a bill that got passed in Washington.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: There's just sort of like the basics that this helps
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: get people get in people's minds that they might not
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: have known about.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Well, even the way he handled that, though, by, you know,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: making a joke about it. Like, he could have gone
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: there and been like, and Joe Wilson voted against this
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: because he doesn't care about you. And Marjorie Taylor Greene
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: voted against it. I'm going to go. But instead he
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, I'll go to the groundbreaking. It's great.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And so if you catch that on the local news,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: is it going to win over a bunch of Republicans?
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Probably not. But are there a few people who might
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: be like, you know what? It's hard to really hate
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: that guy.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: So I like it. Biden's other big political challenge, aside
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: from the economy, is, of course, the perception that he
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: is too old to run again. He addressed that directly
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: on Friday when CNN's Fareed Zakaria asked him whether he should, quote,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: step aside and let another generation of Democrats take the baton.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: The president answered, quote, one thing that comes with age
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: is some wisdom. I just want to finish the job,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and I think we can do that in the next
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: six years. There were also pictures of Joe Biden at
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the beach over the weekend. I saved him in a
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: folder called Taxes. where he was rocking a polo and
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: a short bathing suit that led to quite a few
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: social media jokes, including this viral tweet, quote, if he
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: keeps leaning into the frat guy energy, it will be
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: a landslide. Donald Trump may have inadvertently helped burnish that
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: image by today accusing Joe Biden of doing the cocaine
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: that was found in the White House, quote, in order
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: to give his presidency a little life and energy. What
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: do you think? Is an 80-year-old president who rips lines
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: at Rehoboth in a five-inch inseam bathing suit and aviators?
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Is that the kind of leader we need right now?
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: It's the kind of boyfriend I need right now. Yeah,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: but by the way, look, when did... Like, are five-inch
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: inseam shorts fratty? I thought the frat guys have the
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: longer shorts.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I thought these were more... They used to. I don't
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: think so anymore.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I'm into it. I also think Biden... There's something about
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Biden is like the perfect kind of 80 year old
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: in that in half his pictures, he looks 60 and
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: half his pictures looks a fucking hundred.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because from the same trip, he was
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: he's so he's on the beach with jill the first
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: lady and there's a bunch of people around him and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: and like secret service is there too but like he's
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: just sort of like mingling with the other beachgoers and
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: he's got his shirt off and and And he's looking
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: a little older there. And Republicans are sending that around.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: And then Democrats are sending around the picture where he's
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: in the bathing suit, his polo, his aviators. And he's
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: looking pretty fit. Yeah. Looking pretty good.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: He's looking great.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It depends on how you catch him.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: It's an angle thing.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: And who among us?
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Who among us doesn't have a good or bad angle?
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: He's so relatable.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: So we laugh at this, but there was actually a
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: real Politico story today with the headline, the testosterone primary
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: of 2024. is getting out of hand. And the story
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: is all about how, and this is the quote from
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: the story, the presidential contest has careened into a frenetic
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: fit boy summer side quest in which candidates are drawing
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: fewer contrasts on policy and proving more keen on comparing
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: feats of strength. The piece also included one of the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: worst sentences I have ever read in a political story
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: in my life.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Let's hear it.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Quote, Thirst traps are a new wedge issue. Thirst traps
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: are a new wedge issue. Agree or disagree?
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to dignify that with a response.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I do think this combines like two things. One is
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: there are a few candidates who are like there's one candidate,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Republican mayor who's running.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Francis Suarez.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Who like got some headlines because he looked fit on
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: a jog. And then you have RFK Jr. doing low
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: weight bench presses with his torqued out old body that
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: seems chemically enhanced.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: No to vaccines, yes to steroids.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: But it is worth keeping in mind. And again, like, listen,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not really very interested in doing, like, lizard brain,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: strong person, good leader. You know, like, I don't really
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: think we need to.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, a lot of Republican voters probably are.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except their favorite person in the world is a
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: 78-year-old man who's afraid of hills and famously is allergic
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: to exercise and orders his burgers well done. and hasn't
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: had a real salad that wasn't a fucking iceberg wedge
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: in 25 years. So they don't think they really care
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: about it all that much.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: The Francis Suarez thing is very funny. He was bragging
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: about his sixth place finish, what he called his sixth
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: place finish in a 5K. And it turns out he
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: actually placed 87th. And the sixth that he got, his
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: sixth place finish, was in his age group. And the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: age group was 45 to 49. Yeah.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Still pretty good. Still pretty good.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: That's just, that covers five years?
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Well, there is something actually interesting happening, which is there's
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: kind of like a right-wing discourse that runs from like
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan to Jordan Peterson and a little bit some
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: of the kind of pro-Trump right that's a little fascistic
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: around like real, Tucker Carlson's like, Real men are strong,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: and they have high tea, and they don't eat vegetables,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: but it's like.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk, this weekend, challenged... First of all, he called
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg a cuck, tweeted that, and then followed up,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: came back to his tweet, as we all do, like,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the next day, responded to his own tweet, and challenged
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: him to a, quote, literal dick-measuring contest.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you start to just... I mean, obviously, that's ridiculous.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: And I don't think they should do it.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: But you start thinking it's like before the cage match,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: after the cage match.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Is there some sort of way that is that something
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: we'll do? Is who's going to do the measuring? Is
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: it some kind of prisoner? Who signs up for that
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: fucking job?
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, it's like all these like this endless, like ridiculous.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: It's it is this like like the it does feed
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: into this like they really don't know how to be
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: men anymore. I mean, Elon Musk went through that whole
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: news cycle where. He was being hosed down by an
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: agent on a boat where he looked chubby. And so
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: the next thing he knows, he's talking about being on Ozempic.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Hope it's working for him. It just... Guys, therapy. Get therapy.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Talk about what being a man means to you in
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: that room. Get some guidance.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Go from there. I mean, the more serious flip side
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: to all this is Biden's with age comes wisdom argument.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: His team has been telling reporters they intend to make
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: that case, sort of like on background. You see it
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: in articles. This was the first time, I think, we've
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: heard it from Biden himself. What do you think of
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: that argument?
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: So I think it's the first time he's doing it
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: outside of maybe the Correspondence Center, where he did it there.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, right.
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: And he was sort of joking there, but yeah.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: But it was, I'm not old. He said, I'm not old,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I'm wise, or whatever, some version of that. It was
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: the one that ended with the Don Lemon speech. I'm
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: not over, I'm over the hill or I'm not, I'm
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: probably in my prime.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not over the hill, I'm in my prime.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: But I think they've like really, they are aware that
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: this is his biggest weakness as a candidate, right? Like
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: we've talked about this. They clearly are trying to figure
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: out their way to navigate it. Part of it is
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: going to be with jokes and trying to play it down,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: which he's doing a great job of doing. He has
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: this kind of go-to line now. And actually what's great
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: about it, it actually like previews this argument, right? He
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: always like, Look, I may be 200 years old, but
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this before, which is a
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: way of describing your vast wisdom and experience. So I
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: think it's great. I think it's the right way to
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: talk about the issue. They're not running from it the
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: way they were before. Or not that they run, but
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: they're recognizing that they have to hit it on.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I think it is much better to own the benefits
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: that come with age than to run around constantly trying
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: to prove that you're not as old as you are.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: What he should say is, I'm old, I'm wise, and...
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: You may not know this, but my ears, nose, and
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: scrotum are still growing.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. What?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: That's a part of aging.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: That is a part of aging. There was also an
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Axios story today.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: So there's that. There was also an Axios. His nose?
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: When you started talking nose, I thought we were going
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: into another cocaine.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, no, no.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's more room for Coke to go up.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Is that your point?
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: This guy knows what a blizzard is. Too many cocaine jokes.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: There was also an Axios story today. A very long
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Axios story. It was like most of the Axios morning
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: newsletter about how Biden apparently has a quick trigger temper
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: with his staff during meetings. And so it's all about,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: you know, if people aren't prepared, he's yelling at them.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: He's grilling them. He's getting angry. always in private, you know.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: And the story says at one point, some Biden aides
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: think the president would be better off occasionally displaying his
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: temper in public as a way to assuage voter concerns
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: that the 80-year-old president is disengaged and too old for office.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: So what do you think? Should Biden be more of
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: a dick?
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he goes like, goes full Karen at
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: a Chipotle. I would think that'd be cool. No, first
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: of all, front of the show, Tim Miller pointed out
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: that the anecdotes in the story were all pretty old.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: It was like, One of them was yelling at Jeff
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Zients when he was COVID czar about the lack of
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: COVID testing, which doesn't seem like a morning fit of peak.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: It seems like a deep frustration with a policy failure
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: on the part of the government.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Seems quite fair.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Seems like a big deal. And also that person and
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Zients became chief of staff. And then the other anecdote
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: was about fundraising during the 2008 campaign, which is like
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: pretty far back to go for Biden to lose his temper.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: That said, like, You know, there's a lot of ways
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: to show that you're energetic without losing your shit at people.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: I personally don't know what they are, but people tell
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: me that they exist. And I would say try some
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: of those.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: It to me is a little bit part of the
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: conversation we were just having about like the trying to
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: out masculine, the fake masculinity that the Republican candidates are doing.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Like senile old man is not a great image. I
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: don't think grumpy old man yelling at kids to get
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: off your lawn is that much better. I really don't.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: I don't either.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I think when Biden shows passion about injustice that Republicans
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: are causing or trying to help people, like when he's
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: energetic on the stump, like I go back to the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: State of the Union speech, some of his democracy speeches,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: like I think that's good. That kind of energy is good.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: But I don't think just like yelling and being outraged
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: all the time is good. I realize that like some
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: people of our partisan persuasion might like that, you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: show a little anger. I don't think that I don't
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: think most most voters want that.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And I also like I again, I think his joking
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: about going to Marjorie Taylor Greene's district is going to
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: be much more effective than yelling about Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: And also just sort of like past results are indicative
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: of future performance. Some of his best moments that have
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: been energetic have been him mixing it up with Republicans,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: but with a smile on his face. Some of his
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: worst moments in public life over the last 50 years
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: have been the moments of That like followed him because
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: he lost his temper and yelled at somebody on a
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: rope line, had a bad moment. I don't think like
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: it's all well and good to say like, oh, when
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: he gets angry and test like that, that, that, that,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: like wait till you see it.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: And by the way, some of his best moments in
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: public life have been when he has shown kindness and
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: compassion and grace to people. Many of them who've lost
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: someone like he has lost people in his life. And
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: those are his very best moments when he is when
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: he is quite kind, you know. So, you know, I
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: don't think he should be a dick.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: No, I agree. Unless he could start an OnlyFans, he
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: does the bathing suit, yells at people for money, I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: guess for fundraising. That is.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: A little nose candy. Yeah, a little extra money, a
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: little spending money for the weekend. You know, do a vid,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: head to Hakkasan, have a great time. A little blow
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: if he can afford it, as his boss once said.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: That's right. Now we're off the rails. When we come back...
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Lovett talks to Delaware congressional candidate Sarah McBride about her
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: run for the House.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: She is a state senator from Delaware running for the
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Democratic nomination to represent Delaware in the House. Sarah McBride,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: welcome to the pod.
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me. Long time listener, first
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: time caller.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Well, welcome. So your announcement video talks a lot about
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: family medical leave and coffee. It does not mention that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: you would be the first out trans person to serve
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: in Congress at a time when the country is in
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: this massive debate about trans rights and trans acceptance. Can
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: you talk a little bit about why you made that
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: choice and more broadly how you think about the role
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: identity plays in the campaign?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: Sure. Well, obviously, I'm incredibly proud of who I am,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: I'm proud to be trans. And that background, that experience
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: is an important one that I bring to the table,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: but it is just one part of my life experience.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: It's just one aspect of the experiences and perspectives that
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: I'll bring to the table in Congress. Because ultimately I'm
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: not running just to make history. I'm running to make
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: a difference. I'm not running to be the transgender member
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: of Congress. I am running to make progress on all
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 6: of the issues. that matter to Delawareans up and down
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: this state. And I wanted to reinforce that for people.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 6: I knew that the media would talk about my trans identity.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: I knew that the media would focus in on the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: historic nature of this campaign. But I wanted to focus
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: in on the issues that I've been thinking about as
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: a state senator, that I've been working on, that I've
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 6: been delivering on, and the issues that I'll be focused
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: on in Congress, like early childhood education, paid family and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: medical leave, gun safety, and reproductive rights.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: You know, one thing you've talked about is that one
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: of the reasons trans issues have come to the force
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: so much is because there is an effort on the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: right to manufacture a lot of outrage and fear around this. Now,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: when I worked for Senator Hillary Clinton, and this is
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: a memory that's almost 20 years old now, so I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: may get the details a little bit wrong, but she
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: was really proud about the fact that she was going
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: to work with every Senate Republican she could, except for
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Saxby Chambliss, because Saxby Chambliss... ran an ad about Max
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Cleland that maligned him in a despicable way, even though
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: he had lost three of his limbs when serving in Vietnam. Now,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: you would be serving in a house with a majority
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: that's gone full disgusting on LGBTQ issues. How do you
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: think about, it's not fair that this comes to you,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: but it would, that you would be deciding basically the boundary, right,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: between like, are there people that you wouldn't work with
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: because they're heinous or are there people that you would
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: just view as a challenge? Like, how would you think
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, first off, I think it's important that as
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 6: a member of Congress who's a first from a particular community,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: we demonstrate that we can do the job that we're
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 6: elected for. And that includes a willingness to work with
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 6: your colleagues. Now, I think there are Republicans in Congress
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 6: who won't work with a single Democrat. Um, but I
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 6: actually am willing to roll up my sleeves, dive into
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 6: the details and work with people who I may disagree
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 6: with on every other issue. If we can find common
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: ground on the issue before us. I think when I
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 6: ran for the state Senate here in Delaware, people thought
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: that there was no way that I'd be able to
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: work with more moderate members of the democratic party, let
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: alone conservative Republicans. But I'm actually proud that of every bill,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: almost every bill that I have introduced and passed in
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: the Delaware State Senate, I've been able to pass those
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: bills with bipartisan majorities, including major Democratic priorities like paid leave.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: And then I've been able to find common ground with
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: the Senate Republican leader on expanding access to rural health care.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: And we've worked really closely on issues of oral health.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: And so I think there are issues outside of the headlines,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 6: outside of the evening news, to the degree that people
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 6: still watch the evening news, where Democrats and Republicans can
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: actually work together. But yes, there's no question that there
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: are real divides and real partisan divisions. And ultimately, let
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: their pettiness contrast with my desire for progress. Let their
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: cruelty contrast with what I believe is at the heart
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 6: of my politics, which is compassion. And let that contrast
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 6: serve as a visual representation of the fact that they
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: have absolutely no policy proposals for workers and families in
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 6: this country and that their attacks on trans people, their
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 6: lack of willingness to engage with me is meant to
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 6: appeal to a small faction of an ever shrinking Republican
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 6: party and to distract from their policy failures.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Is there like a little part of you that's like
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: wants to be on the House floor and see some
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: of these people and maybe you're not working with them
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: day to day, but like, hi, I'm Sarah, I'm not
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: a monster, I'm not a, you know, that has to
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: be a little bit exciting.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, it should be uncomfortable for
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 6: these people to push forward these types of policies. It
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 6: is very easy to do that when there is no
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 6: one from the impacted community in the spaces that you're in.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 6: They should have to look me in the eye. They
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: should have to answer my questions when I'm up on
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: that dais. They should have to have, seek my vote
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 6: on certain things, particularly if we're in the majorities. They
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 6: should have to work with me and spend time with
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: me and be in spaces with me so that they
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: can feel bad about what they're doing. And even though
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 6: some might not, a lot of them will feel bad
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 6: when they have to look me in the eye because
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 6: they're doing this for political gain. They don't actually believe
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: in these horrifically cruel policies. And so that's one of
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: the reasons why representation is so important. Because it changes
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 6: the conversation, it changes the priorities, and it changes policies.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: So Senator Chris Murphy got in a little bit of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: a kerfuffle. I don't know if you saw this, but
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: he kind of put out a Twitter poll. And what
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: he said was, there are a lot of social conservatives
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: who believe in populist economic policies, and it would be
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: a good idea to have those people a part of
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: the Democratic left coalition and accept a bit more intra-movement
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: friction on cultural issues as a consequence. Now, he clarified
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: this and said, there should be no compromising on LGBT.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Q rights. But if we want to build a majority
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: that brings in people that maybe agree on raising the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: minimum wage, agree on expanding the social safety net, but
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: aren't with us on social issues, our door should be
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: open to those people, in part because maybe we can
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: persuade them. As someone who has very clearly thought about persuasion,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: what do you make of that argument? Do you agree
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: with it? Do you disagree with it?
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 6: I think there's no question that we as a party,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 6: as elected officials, should never compromise on basic human rights.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 6: I think there's no question that our party, when it
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: comes to candidates that we should support, should have sort
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 6: of threshold questions and basic human rights should be one
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: of those threshold questions. I do think that as a society,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: as individuals, as citizens, we do have to maintain the
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: connections with people who disagree with us, who might not
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: be there yet. And yes, that includes on issues that
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: I might personally struggle with comprehending why someone might be
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 6: on the opposite side of it from me. But in
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: order to have social change, we need some level of connectivity.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 6: We can't allow for those bonds to dissipate so much
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: that no one's holding them accountable, that no one's having
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 6: conversations with them and opening their minds and changing their
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: hearts on these issues. And I also think that the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 6: reality is that to govern, you have to build coalitions
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: that have diversity of thought in those coalitions. And maybe
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: on that one issue before you, you're like-minded, but you
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: disagree on other issues. And so I think we have
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 6: to be able to hold both of those truths in
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 6: our approach to politics, that we have first principles on
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: these issues when it comes to who we elect and
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: how we operate as a party, while also recognizing that
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: both there are citizens, but also ultimately people that we
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: might have to work with who get elected, who disagree
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: with us on some fundamental questions, but for whom we
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: can find common ground with on the issue before us.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: So you've pushed back a bit. Now, there are people
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: who I think have made a pretty kind of, I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: don't know, travel a little too quickly from A to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: B to say, you're a trans person, you know the Bidens,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: you changed Joe Biden's mind on trans issues. I think
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: that seems like a lot to ask of one person.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: can you at least take any credit for getting him
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: into shorts with a five inch inseam?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: Listen, if you ask my friends, I'm the last person
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: that could take credit for any kind of cutting edge
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 6: fashion that someone's wearing. But I'm incredibly proud to call
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden a friend and an ally. I've seen some
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 6: of this coverage. I've been asked about it a lot,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 6: our relationship. And I think you're right. It is not
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: one person and it's not one relationship. I truly think
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 6: It's this president's big heart. And I also will say,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: I think it's him carrying on his son Beau's legacy,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 6: who I had the chance to work for when he
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: was attorney general and also work with in pushing forward
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: a non-discrimination bill here in Delaware to protect the LGBTQ community.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 6: And I think Joe Biden feels closer to Beau when
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 6: he's carrying on his legacy, when he's carrying on his work.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 6: And so I think a lot of credit doesn't just
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 6: go to the president's big heart. It also goes to
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 6: the president's late son.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Do you have a fun or goofy Biden story you
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: can share? A moment where he calls you kid at
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: a time that makes no sense? Anything? What do you got?
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: Oh, man. Well, I'll tell you the first time I
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: met the president, I was 11 years old. And I
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 6: met him at a pizza shop in Delaware. And he
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 6: ripped out a schedule that he had from the day
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 6: and signed his name on it. And it was my
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: prized possession. And I might have been the only 11
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: year old in the United States who was cherishing a
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: schedule that had the nomination of Thomas Pickering on it.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 6: But my favorite Joe Biden story is not a funny one.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 6: It's in 2013, in January 2013, at the Naval Observatory,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 6: I had just come out as trans. And I was
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: still very nervous. I was just finishing up my internship
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 6: in the White House. And I saw the vice president
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: then at, at, from a distance and he pulled me
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 6: in and said, Bo is so proud of you. Jill
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: is so proud of you. I'm so proud of you.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: The whole family is so proud of you. And I
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 6: just want to know, kid, are you happy? And I said,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 6: I was happy. And he said that made him so
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 6: happy and gave me the biggest hug.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, Sarah McBride, thank you so much for being here. Uh,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: so good getting to have you on the show. And, uh,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Good luck out there. I guess you raised a lot
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: of money really quickly.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: I've been incredibly grateful for all of the folks who
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: visited sarahmcbride.com to donate and volunteer and help us have
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 6: momentum as we launch this campaign. Okay.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just letting you get it in. Well, thanks for
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: being here. Have a good one.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 6: Thanks so much.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Sarah McBride for joining us today. We will
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: talk to you on Thursday. Pod Save America is a
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Madeline Herringer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Mia Kelman, Ben Hefko, and David Tolles.
• 1:11:41
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• 1:11:44
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