Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / How State Legislation Shapes Your Hunting, Access, and Conservation Future (Ep 744)

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How State Legislation Shapes Your Hunting, Access, and Conservation Future (Ep 744) · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:02
  Mike Brasher: Hey, everyone. Join us on this episode as we sit down with Kaylee Liger of the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation and Swanee Evans from Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. They guide us through some of the importance of state legislation and how it affects what we as hunters, anglers, trappers, and recreational shooters get to do now and into the future. Great discussion on important issues. Stay with us.
• 0:28
  VO: Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast.
• 0:32
  I'm your host, doctor Mike Brasher. I'm your host, Katie Burke. I'm your host, doctor Jared Henson. And I'm your host, Matt Harrison.
• 0:46
  Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, the only podcast about all things waterfowl. From hunting insights to science based discussions about ducks, geese, and issues affecting waterfowl and wetlands conservation in North America. The DU podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails.
• 1:12
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• 1:34
  Mike Brasher: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I am doctor Mike Brazier, I'm gonna be your host on this episode. And we have a a special series of discussions that we're gonna have here today. I'm on location at the guest house at Graceland for a summit, a conference that's happening here in town.
• 1:52
  It is the National Assembly of Sportsman's Caucuses, and I'm joined here in this little room where we're where we're kinda camped out by two folks who are gonna help us kick off this series of discussions, tell you a little bit more about what this summit is, who's attending, and really this relates to the importance of legislation at the state level. It's what we're gonna be talking about today. We've talked a lot on the Ducks Unlimited podcast about how we work at the federal level on things such as NAKA and Farm Bill and a whole host of other things. There's a ton of work that happens and a ton of decisions that are made at the state level that affect all of us that love to hunt and fish and trap and spend time outdoors. And we don't spend much time talking about that.
• 2:37
  Our Ducks Unlimited policy staff spend a tremendous amount of time in state capitals across the country making relationships with the important decision makers there, with our other partner organizations. And the discussion today is gonna give you a little bit of insight to how some of that works. First two people here that I'm gonna introduce are for are from different organizations, but we all work together. So first, I'm gonna start with Kaylee Lager, the assistant manager for Mid Atlantic States for the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation, and we're gonna tell you what the Congressional Sportsman Foundation is here in a moment. But, Kaylee, welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast.
• 3:14
  Kaylee Lager: Thank you, Mike. I appreciate it. It was nice to finally be able to meet you in person.
• 3:18
  Mike Brasher: I know we've chatted online and and email a few times. You've participated in our Duck DNA project. I think it was last year. Did you do it two years in a row or just the first just yet last year?
• 3:27
  Kaylee Lager: I believe it was just last year.
• 3:29
  Mike Brasher: Okay. Yes. Alright. And you'd were able to submit some samples?
• 3:32
  Kaylee Lager: I was. Yes. And to my surprise, every black duck that I harvested did not have any game farm mallard in it, so I was pretty satisfied and excited to participate and provide you guys with some data. So thank you for running that program with, doctor Lovretsky and all the other folks at DU.
• 3:48
  Mike Brasher: That's right. We've and we're continuing to do that this year, and lots of things are happening right now, and appreciate your support for that. And next, we have a return guest to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. He was with us a couple of years ago, I think, on an episode where we had a lot of fun and had a lot of laughs, but he's now with a different organization. That guest here is Swanee Evans.
• 4:09
  He is now the director of government affairs for Pheasants Forever at Quail Forever. Swanee, welcome back.
• 4:14
  Swanny Evans: Thanks for having me, Mike. I'm excited to be back.
• 4:16
  Mike Brasher: It's not quite the same atmosphere we were in over there at the Ducks Unlimited studio. I apologize to Kaylee for not being able to share that with you.
• 4:23
  Kaylee Lager: That's okay.
• 4:24
  Swanny Evans: Next time, though. Right?
• 4:25
  Mike Brasher: But you that was even now that I think about it, that was before we even moved to the bigger studio that we now have. We expanded.
• 4:32
  Swanny Evans: It was pretty tight in there, but it was a nice spot. We had a lot of a lot of fun.
• 4:36
  Mike Brasher: Yeah. You'll have to come back sometime actually physically in the studio.
• 4:39
  Swanny Evans: I'll be there.
• 4:40
  Mike Brasher: Okay. So let's talk a little bit about, I guess, where do we wanna start? So, Kaylee, I'm gonna ask you kinda what you do, but partly I think part of that explanation or answer is gonna be, like, what is the Congressional Sportsman Foundation? So introduce people to you and and what you do and what your organization does.
• 5:00
  Kaylee Lager: When I first started at CSF, it was it was a learning curve because, again, you know, being a a hunter my entire life myself, it was something that I, you know, I had never really heard of CSF as a hunter. And then when I started working in the legislature in Maryland, I had, you know, some people talk about CSF and I was kind of interested in in what that was and what what they did. And so through that, I found that, you know, CSF is a policy driven organization. They exist and we exist. It's right there on our website to inform, influence, and defend policies that protect and promote outdoor traditions.
• 5:33
  So that's hunting, fishing, trapping, recreational shooting, and everything that deals with conservation. So to kinda give you an overview, we've actually been in existence since 1989 and we were founded right there in DC on Capitol Hill, primarily starting out focused on federal policies. You mentioned that's something that a lot of people pay attention to and are usually sometimes more aware of than state level stuff. So then in 2004, they realized how successful the the federal caucus was, the bipartisanship, the nonpartisanship, and realized that these things that we do and that we love don't see party lines. And so they said, most of the issues that we're facing that really impact sportsmen and women on a day to day basis happen at the state level.
• 6:17
  So we need to sort of shift and and transition to also include those folks. And so that's where, you know, the NASC network evolved, the National Assembly of Sportsman's Caucuses. And to kinda give an overview, and again, it might be to some, confusing to some folks, so I'd like to think as the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation as the the the parent or the umbrella. And then under that umbrella is three caucus groups. So as I mentioned, it started out with the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus, which again is made up of members of Congress, both sides of the aisle, doesn't matter where you're from.
• 6:50
  If you support men and women who hunt, fish, trap recreational shoot, and you appreciate conservation and what sportsmen and women do in The United States Of America, then, you know, we we would like to have you on the caucus. And so then the next step is the governor's sportsman's caucus, and that's kinda self explanatory. It it consists of governors in The United States. And then the next step is that NASC network, Mike, that I had just mentioned, the National Assembly Sportsman's Caucuses, which is made up of state legislators. So a few years ago, and I can't remember the exact year, we finally got to all 50 states, Hawaii being our last to join the NASC network.
• 7:23
  So in every state in The US, there's a a state legislative sportsman's caucus and within that are co chairs. So we usually like to have and then, you know, trying to stay in the bipartisan nature if we can help it. We'll have, you know, try to have an even split with co chairs and then there's just, you know, your regular members. And that's what the NASC network is. It's the ability for state legislators to be able to talk to other state legislators and say, hey, you know, we're we're seeing this here in Maryland.
• 7:50
  I'm gonna use as an example as a Marylander. We're seeing this in Maryland, but have you guys seen this in Montana? And if so, yes. Okay. Well, you know, how did your state handle it and how did the legislators handle it in your state?
• 8:00
  And it's just basically just a giant network of being able to compare and contrast notes and see kind of the the policies that are trending nationwide, which as you both know, and it's it's the same thing at the federal level, you see somebody come up with an idea, good or bad, and then someone, you know, kinda picks it up here and there. It's the same thing. It spreads across The US. So at the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation, my role, I do state policy work for the Mid Atlantic Region. So I'm covering Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, and West Virginia.
• 8:32
  So I'm in the state capitals working with the state legislative sportsman's caucuses in my area and I'm doing just that. I'm paying attention to policy at the state level and regulations that impact sportsmen and women in conservation at the state level. So, you know, I won't get into too much detail because I'm sure we're gonna tune into it a little bit later here. But, you know, for example, things that come from license fee increases, things that come to increasing access to public lands, you know, things such as the kind of ammunition that you can use. Those are all things that we pay attention to and get involved in.
• 9:03
  Mike Brasher: Adam Putnam, our CEO, spoke yesterday morning, and I this has been a this these past couple of days have been a tremendous learning experience for me because I've never been to one of these these conferences. You have these every year. They move around. This year, it's in Memphis. Ducks Unlimited is the who's the host?
• 9:19
  The presenting sponsor. Yes. Sponsor.
• 9:21
  Kaylee Lager: Thank you to DU for that.
• 9:22
  Mike Brasher: Happy to do it. And so I've had I've had the fortune of being here for a little while these past couple of days and soaking everything in and listening and watching and trying to figure out how some of these works because I've been to a lot of conferences, I've been to a lot of workshops, and I always try to figure out what's the value of these different things, and it's been really, really apparent the value of this gathering and the relationships that are built among the people that attend this. And Adam put it very well, and you touched on it, Kaylee, whenever he said yesterday morning, states are the laboratories of democracy. As you said, there are it is at the state level that a lot of these, in some cases, bad ideas bubble up. In a lot of cases, good ideas bubble up.
• 10:04
  And these states can be sort of the the test grounds for some of those the test grounds for how to make them successful, the test grounds for how to change them to make a bad idea good, or the test grounds for figuring out how we just combat what would be a terrible idea for sportsmen and women, hunters, anglers, shooters. And it's at these type of meetings where I've just, in a short period of time, seen the value of the relationships built between folks like you and the legislators that are the ones that are making those decisions, sharing those experiences, accelerating the pace that the individual states can make on any of these particular issues, good or or bad. So it's been phenomenal to to sort of see that. And, you know, Ducks Unlimited is centered around has a mission centered around waterfowl, a migratory resource. And so we work across all these different states, and a lot of the lot of the work that we do, as I mentioned at the outset, is well, it's not exactly true.
• 11:06
  A lot of the big picture work that most people would be aware of that are familiar with Ducks Unlimited on the policy side is that of a federal nature. Duck stamp, you know, federal duck stamp, knock off, farm bill I mentioned. But there are a lot of other things at the state level that we do that don't get a lot of attention. But in situations like like your organization, Suwanee, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever. Mean, you you too work at both the at the federal level, state level.
• 11:34
  This the the type of policy work that y'all do at the state level may be a little bit different in some cases than what Ducks Unlimited would work on at the state level, but I there's also a lot of overlap. But in your role, talk about the work that you do because you said you are you're you're government affairs at the state level now. Is that tell me a little bit more about that and and the type of work that that you do.
• 11:58
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. So Pheasants Forever and Quill Forever for a long time have had a lot of expertise at the federal level when it comes to policy. So Farm Bill, like you were just talking about. Andrew Schmidt, who is my counterpart, he's the director of government affairs on the federal side. A lot of people call him the farm bill Jesus.
• 12:15
  He he's got red hair like me, longer hair at at one point. I think that's where that name came from. But he he is deferred too often on farm bill topics with his expertise. You know? So we've been a go to organization on that front for a long time.
• 12:30
  And that's not to say that we didn't work in in state government affairs, but we haven't really focused on it. And in recent years, there's been a lot of demand from our membership and our partners for us to get more involved in state government affairs. And so we brought on an individual at a manager level. Her name was Suzanne. She did an excellent job.
• 12:48
  I had to step away for family reasons and other stuff, nothing related to performance. But they they realized there was a lot more demand here, and there was a lot of interest from our membership at the state level. And so they elevated the role to a director. They brought me on to build out a state affairs team. So our plan going forward, I've only been on board for for five to six months now, but our plan is to hire on regional managers and to work through our members and our partners, of course, and try to dive into a lot of these state issues.
• 13:20
  So our focus is is on upland habitat, access, education, and then obviously the advocacy portion of it. But when we talk about state work and and a lot of the things that that we're gonna talk about with with Kaylee today, a lot of the topics, it's so interesting because a lot of the authority when it comes to wildlife and hunting lies at the state level. And so you can have a very large influence. And then when you talk about lobbying and state legislatures in general, you're talking about most of the time a lot less people to deal with legislators. Right?
• 13:53
  You've got on average, I think it's about a 140 legislators on average. It it varies by state. But you've got less less legislators. They're a lot easier to access. You know, they're a lot easier to get in contact with and work with.
• 14:08
  And a lot of those state sessions, it varies by state, but a lot of those state sessions are only a couple of months. So change happens really fast whether that's good or bad. But that just reinforces the importance of having organizations like the Congressional Sports Foundation and then other, you know, large membership based nonprofits that are focused on state government affairs work to make sure that we're there to capitalize on opportunities, but also defend what we care about when it comes to wildlife and habitat.
• 14:35
  Mike Brasher: A question about the you said you now have sort of two positions, two directors of government affairs. I think you were telling me this last night. I I whenever you first introduced your new title to me last night, I asked you if you were the new Jim English. Jim and I are good friends. He used to, you know, be what was his title?
• 14:53
  Was was it was it director of government affairs or was
• 14:56
  Swanny Evans: it but some
• 14:57
  Mike Brasher: he worked mostly at the federal level, almost exclusively. Right?
• 15:00
  Swanny Evans: He did, but he he did work on state stuff as well. So the first time I met Jim was actually at a NASC summit, which is the the conference
• 15:07
  Mike Brasher: that we're
• 15:08
  Swanny Evans: at right now. And he had a great beard. Yeah. You know? So I was immediately wanted to talk to him.
• 15:13
  And we bonded over Ithaca side by side shotguns.
• 15:17
  Mike Brasher: Oh, imagine.
• 15:18
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. And I've got one that was built in the forties. He does as well. And so we kinda hit it off, but I still talk when I started this role. I immediately contacted him and kinda got caught up.
• 15:27
  But, yeah, he he retired, I guess, from federalist forever. He's still
• 15:32
  Mike Brasher: That's crazy.
• 15:32
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. Know. He still does
• 15:33
  Mike Brasher: He still
• 15:33
  Swanny Evans: work work. Yeah. But he he did engage at the state level. But, yes, mostly playing in the federal sandbox as I understand it anyway. I was obviously not with the organization at the time.
• 15:43
  But he's still been a great resource for me to reach out to and talk about what's happened historically.
• 15:47
  Mike Brasher: And so your position is is to bring enhanced focus to state legislation?
• 15:53
  Swanny Evans: Absolutely. So my position is to focus on all 50 states. Actually have members, Quail Forever and Pheasants Forever members in all 50 states. And my focus is going to be those state legislatures. We're obviously gonna have to prioritize because that's a lot of states.
• 16:10
  But we are so lucky to have partners like Kaylee and Congressional Sports Foundation and Ducks Unlimited. I've been working with Matt Little, Ed, Kyle Aurora up there in the Midwest. So our partners are our greatest resource and then, of course, our members as well. So we're looking at ways to really empower our membership to use their voices. You know, we've we've got over a half a million member supporters and partners that we've accumulated over the years that are really passionate about Upland Habitat and hunting.
• 16:39
  So being able to empower them to use their voice through action alerts, different sportsman's day and women's days at the capital, It's just it's gonna be really impactful to, you know, getting them engaged, hopefully, the the end result of these policies and helping out our partners as well.
• 16:56
  Mike Brasher: Kaylee, tell me if I'm correct here, but my interpretation of kinda what I've learned, what you've said is that when you think about who we work for, who our constituents are from a CSF standpoint, your constituents are the same as ours. They are the hunters, anglers, trappers, recreational shooters across The US. Right?
• 17:16
  Kaylee Lager: That's correct.
• 17:17
  Mike Brasher: What has been very eye opening to me I I mean, I I wish I wish more people knew about the great information that your that your organization accumulates and facilitates the exchange job to all the people that are making the decisions that affect us as that constituent group. And what I'm talking about is that 300 plus page document that y'all have that I there was a QR code in the in the hallway, and I scanned it and pulled it up, and it's over a 100 issues that are summarized as that are important. When I say issues, I'm talking about active either emerging or active policy issues, some good, some bad. A lot of them are really bad from from our standpoint, a constituent standpoint. But the the issue is summarized.
• 18:07
  The experience has been summarized. It provides a wealth of knowledge there, provides some examples of where some states have been successful in achieving something or or in defeating something. And that document alone, I mean, to think where these 50 states would be individually if you didn't have some some kind of forum or group to sort of facilitate that information exchange, it's kinda scary to think about in the face of our constituent group becoming an smaller and smaller percentage of the overall population that's doing all the voting and putting these people in these positions. Right?
• 18:42
  Kaylee Lager: You're absolutely right, Mike. Excuse me. It's it's just fascinating to me, and it's funny because when I open that document, that's basically what we work from. So, Suwanee, I'm sorry that you're that you're covering all 50 states. I feel for you.
• 18:56
  Fortunately enough, through the years, CSF has grown and really invested in their in their state policy team, and that looks like what PFQF is looking to do as well. So that's that's awesome, and we love all of our partners. Nothing works better, you know, when there's an issue and we can all get on board and, you know, maybe submit testimony that's a letter of support or a letter of opposition. And it it is strong when you have, you know, five, ten, 15, whatever it may be, sportsman conservation groups on that letterhead signing saying, hey, This is excellent or, hey. This is terrible, and these are the reasons why that support is very important.
• 19:28
  And, Swannan, you know, as a part of the the Pennsylvania, policy work group, we do some of that work there up in PA. But, you know, it's it's that document that you just mentioned, Mike, it's basically what I work off of. It's my my kind of my guide. So if a bill is dropped and, you know, it touches on one of those plethora of of pieces that are in that document, I can say, okay, this was this happened in, you know, Washington state. What was the result of that?
• 19:57
  What are some of the consequences? Did it pass? Did it not pass? And I have the opportunity to kinda take a deep dive and look at that and then share that information with legislators in the state where the the bill has come up or when folks have an idea of legislation that they may wanna introduce, they can kind of come to us and say, you know, hey, I kinda had this idea to do this initiative or what are your thoughts on doing this? And I'm able to go back and look at that document and say, well, this is the history of it in other states.
• 20:24
  How would this impact yours specifically and what are some maybe some lessons learned either good or bad of how we could approach this?
• 20:40
  VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
• 20:56
  Mike Brasher: I think it would be interesting at this point to talk about some examples of these state policies that are that our listeners might find, number one, most, I guess, or that that might that might resonate mostly with them might say, hey, that's doggone important. I'm glad there are people thinking about that. Swanee, I asked you the other night, like, what are some of the most important issues in real quick fashion? You rattled off three, four or five of these. I'm like, Oh, yeah, I've heard about that.
• 21:22
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do that again. What are some of the most important issues at the state level that you want people to know about that we've either had success on. And it doesn't have to be birds. It doesn't have to be waterfowl.
• 21:33
  It doesn't have to be even, you know, quail, fizz. I mean, it could be big game, any of those types of things, and or it could be all encompassing. What are some of the biggest issues that you think people would wanna know about?
• 21:42
  Swanny Evans: Dedicated conservation funding is a huge one, and and we should probably roll through these and then dive into them. Hunter access is another big one, and and access in all senses of the term, whether that's being able to hunt on particular day, which we should definitely talk about here in a minute. Kaylee had a recent win up in Pennsylvania there. Or access as in actual land to hunt in. Public land acquisition and management is is huge.
• 22:07
  You know, we've talked about our three previously on the podcast, access being one of the most limiting factors. When we this is not the most sexy one to talk about, but as nonprofits, we rely on membership and and fundraising efforts. And so oftentimes we're looking at laws that are frankly just outdated or haven't been, you know, modernized about raffles, being able to buy raffle tickets. So there's a lot of different things like that, and we can start going down the rabbit hole on them. But maybe we should start with specific examples from Kaylee's region, and then we can expand into what's happening in the rest of the country.
• 22:42
  So do you wanna jump into Yeah. Sure. That's particular day we should talk about?
• 22:46
  Kaylee Lager: Absolutely. So, you know, folks who aren't in Pennsylvania or maybe not in the Mid Atlantic slash Northeast region, you know, when you look at Sunday hunting and there's you're in the West or you're in the Midwest,
• 22:58
  Mike Brasher: whatever it may be. Gonna blow some people's mind if they haven't heard about it that there are some of these things that are even on the books.
• 23:03
  Kaylee Lager: Right? Exactly right. So it's funny because growing up in Maryland, we still do not have Sunday waterfowl hunting, and that's, yes, that's something that I've been working on very hard with our partners, the U and Delta, to try to get Sunday hunting out. Waterfowl hunting. Absolutely.
• 23:17
  We we can turkey hunt on Sundays, and it's by county. It's a very confusing patchwork. Folks, if you wanna hear more about it, you know, please feel free to reach out to me. Won't bore you on that.
• 23:24
  Mike Brasher: Reminds me of the reminds me of the sale of alcohol in some Southern states and what you can and can't
• 23:28
  Kaylee Lager: do. That's exactly right.
• 23:30
  Mike Brasher: Yeah. Exactly the right. Remnants of
• 23:31
  Swanny Evans: the Blue Laws
• 23:31
  Kaylee Lager: Yeah.
• 23:32
  Swanny Evans: Is what it was.
• 23:32
  Kaylee Lager: So you and it's really only in the Northeast. It's the king's laws or the blue laws, the antiquated blue laws where it was, you know, certain things you couldn't do on Sundays. Right? So you couldn't grocery shop, you couldn't dance, you couldn't tell your fields, you couldn't you basically could do nothing but go to church on a Sunday and obviously, you know, times have changed and and, you know, people's wishes have changed and so with that, they started repealing some of these blue laws. Okay.
• 23:57
  It's kinda silly you can't till your field on a Sunday or you can't, you know, go buy beer to watch the football game on Sunday. It's kinda silly. So these things have been repealed. But one of the things that continued to stay was the prohibition on hunting on a Sunday, which again, as you mentioned, Mike, you know, folks who don't live in this region, that's they What do you understand that that's a thing, that there's people who can't hunt on a Sunday. But, yes, folks, that does exist.
• 24:21
  And Pennsylvania, fortunately, after, you know, since our country existed, is now finally able to hunt on Sundays because that legislative prohibition, it was in statute through legislation that the Pennsylvania Game Commission could not set any kind of hunting dates, bag limits or anything on a Sunday for it was all game species. A few years ago, they did allow three specific, Sundays for deer hunting and then one was up to the game commission, which I believe that they chose to be a bear. One day, could bear hunt on a Sunday. But regardless, what just passed in Pennsylvania, representative Mandy Steele, was to lift that legislative prohibition. So now what that did is it gave the game commission, the wildlife experts in the state who, you know, have gone to school for this, spend a lot of time out in the field and, you know, I obviously don't have to tell tell you Mike and other biologists and such out there, but the game commission now has the authority to regulate hunting completely.
• 25:19
  There's not a legislative blockade there that's saying, okay, the legislature's still saying we can't hunt on this date. Sundays have been open. It's the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Listen to which constituents, it's hunters, and they open it for deer season this year. Still some discussions going on about spring turkey season and waterfowl hunting on Sundays in PA, but they're kind of I believe right now, they're going through the survey process with their their their hunters up there.
• 25:41
  But again, this was this was on the books since the founding of our country and it took till 2025 to get that removed. So you can imagine CSF worked on it for about fourteen years. There was legislators there who remember, you know, when they first started twenty five years ago, this was an issue and a conversation that was had. So, you know, PFQF, DU, CSF, Delta, I mean, all all of these organizations, we came together and we said, you know, it it it's time, and and the legislature finally saw the light of day and
• 26:10
  Mike Brasher: Because there was there was opposition to changing it still. Right? Because it was was it cultural? I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of different reasons for for different groups wanting to oppose something, but tradition, I'm sure, was part of that.
• 26:22
  Kaylee Lager: It was. It was. There was opposition because they you know, there were some people saying there were some noise complaints, but I believe some of the biggest hurdles that we faced specifically was some of the other user groups. Right? So you had your hikers, your bikers, your birders, your horseback riders saying, hey, we want a day where we can go out and not worry about being shot.
• 26:41
  Well, you know, in Pennsylvania and many other states, hunter non hunter conflicts are extremely low. And how we look at it is is hunting seasons are very regulated, so in only a particular time of year, while these other user groups that are not regulated as such can do it 365 a year. So, you know, that was kind of a a a direction that went through and the legislature understood and we were finally able to get some traction on that. And it it came close last year. Politics came in play as politics do.
• 27:14
  But this year, we were successful and we're very excited that I can finally check that off my list.
• 27:20
  Mike Brasher: The you might have said this and I missed it. Are there other states that still have those those laws on
• 27:24
  Kaylee Lager: the books? There there are. Yes. So Maine specifically has zero Sunday hunting opportunities. I believe Massachusetts is also kind of in the in in the same boat there.
• 27:34
  Maryland, as I mentioned, does not have Sunday waterfowl hunting opportunities. There is some Sunday waterfowl hunting or, excuse me, Sunday hunting opportunities for other game species, like I had mentioned, turkey, deer, but it's very complex because it's broken out county by county. Some counties, you can hunt on Sunday, and if you do, it can only be till 10:30, summer all day. It's very confusing. Yeah.
• 27:55
  And then Delaware back in 2024, repealed their Sunday hunting prohibition. So it's gaining traction. Yeah. I don't know what the last state's gonna be to hold out. I'm hoping that if it's not Maryland, hopefully, that'll happen in 2026 or 2027.
• 28:12
  But, again, it it it couldn't be done without partners like DU and PFQF and all the other, you know, critter groups out there that really care about these things as sportsmen and women.
• 28:22
  Swanny Evans: Can can you imagine not being able to hunt the whole weekend?
• 28:24
  Mike Brasher: No. That's crazy. The first time I heard of it, I was like, what are you talking about?
• 28:28
  Swanny Evans: That's half of most people's opportunity.
• 28:30
  Mike Brasher: I know. Yeah. Exactly.
• 28:31
  Swanny Evans: Just from an r three perspective, it's I mean, it's a must have. Yeah. But we still have North Carolina has limitations on Sunday hunting.
• 28:39
  Kaylee Lager: You're right. You're right.
• 28:39
  Swanny Evans: There's a lot of kind of fragmented ones where it's not outlawed completely like Maine is, but it's, you know, just limited opportunity.
• 28:47
  Kaylee Lager: It is. It's a lot of patchwork of prohibitions. Like, in again, too, like North Carolina, you can't waterfowl hunt on a Sunday, but you can do other species. So, again, it's and they have the right to. The that was removed legislatively, but that I believe it's a commission they have not implemented.
• 29:03
  So it's not in the legislature. The legislature, it's it's out of their hands. It was given to their wildlife professionals and that board of commissioners, but they have just not implemented it.
• 29:12
  Swanny Evans: It's a hot topic.
• 29:13
  Mike Brasher: You know, you mentioned dedicated state funding for the for the state agency. James Cummins is gonna talk with us a little bit later on about that. So let's kinda set that one aside unless there's something burning that you wanna talk about in regard to that.
• 29:25
  Swanny Evans: Oh, I'm I'm burning over
• 29:26
  Mike Brasher: here, Mike.
• 29:28
  Swanny Evans: I'm burning.
• 29:28
  Mike Brasher: Do do you wanna do you wanna touch on that a little bit?
• 29:30
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. Let's talk about So
• 29:32
  Mike Brasher: we can cover it twice. It's that important. Right?
• 29:34
  Swanny Evans: It's that important.
• 29:35
  Mike Brasher: Okay.
• 29:35
  Swanny Evans: James will understand. So dedicated conservation funding is really interesting. And I started started really thinking about it years ago when we were pushing for an effort in Georgia. My old boss, he's the CEO of Georgia Wildlife Federation, Mike Worley, really helped
• 29:49
  Mike Brasher: push through yesterday morning.
• 29:50
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. Yeah. So Mike helped push through the the Georgia outdoor stewardship amendment, which allowed for a a percentage of the state level sporting goods sales tax to be moved into a fund to do public land acquisition and management. So it generates about $30,000,000 a year. It's dedicated for anything from green spaces to hunting opportunity.
• 30:14
  So it's really interesting. But I was at the the kind of the turning point for me where I started thinking about this at at a bigger scale was I was at a it was an AFWA, which is the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies or North American meeting. And this was a number of years ago, but those are the the two meetings where all 50 state directors, the Natural Resources Agency's directors come together every year. And Josh Millspaugh was a a professor at the University of Montana. He's the Boone and Crockett chair.
• 30:43
  And he and one of his students, I think it was Charlie Bucher at the time who's now with Watershed Results, did some research looking at conservation funding for the state natural resources agencies. And when they broke it down, looking at all 50 states, almost 70%, it was 69% of the funding came from either hunting, fishing licenses, those permit sales, Pittman Robertson, or Dingell Johnson. So the overwhelming and it varies by state, but the overwhelming majority of the funding is coming from those sources, not a lot from the general fund or apportionments along those lines. And that's where the importance of these alternative funds come in, dedicated conservation funding. So you've got some really good examples.
• 31:23
  Georgia being one of those. Missouri and and Arkansas have it, I think it's an eighth of a percent sales tax coming off of their sales tax that generates, I mean, millions and millions dollars a year. Other states are pulling off the lotteries, but we are working with CSF in a number of states right now to ensure that the conservation funding continues and that we add new streams. So the the states that we're working we're sitting in Tennessee right now. Tennessee tried to increase hunting and fishing licenses.
• 31:53
  That got pulled back. They weren't allowed to do it, and they're going to need more funding to keep doing what they're doing, to to implement public land management, the wildlife research, everything else. And that's where this dedicated conservation funding comes in. So we're part of a coalition working with Tennessee and and all the partners here to identify what that funding stream could look like, where we should pull it from, whether that's the lottery, a percentage of an existing tax, you know, some new tax. Like anytime there's a new tax imposed in Montana last year, they called it weed for wildlife was the slang I remember that.
• 32:28
  Yeah. The cannabis tax. And so a portion of that coming off for wildlife. So it's just one of those things that we we don't think about a lot as hunters, but it's extremely important. So if you if you're a hunter and you're listening to this and you see that issue popping up or you get an action alert from Ducks Unlimited or for and QF or or see a a post with an alert from CSF, about sending an email.
• 32:51
  Think about reaching out to your legislators because that's that's something that's really crucial.
• 32:55
  Kaylee Lager: I was gonna say, if I if I could, Mike, to interject here, that takes us to one of CSF's top priority. So every year, we kinda sit down and identify our top 10 for the year from, again, those trends that we're seeing across the country. And one of those, as you mentioned, dedicated funding and conservation funding. So, you know, Suwanee, obviously, he painted a really good picture of these state fish and wildlife agencies. Their funding, a lot of the times, very majority is is not coming from the general fund.
• 33:22
  It's it's on so when
• 33:23
  Mike Brasher: you say general fund, you're talking about tax.
• 33:25
  Kaylee Lager: Tax tax. Tax Yeah. So you're you're everyday Joe Blow who's walking down the street who doesn't hunt fish or do any of those things and, you know, he has to pay taxes and it goes into that state fund that goes towards education and roads and all of that good stuff. A lot of these agencies get, if any, very little.
• 33:43
  Mike Brasher: Most of that funding for those agencies comes from license
• 33:46
  Kaylee Lager: Licensing sales. Yep. And then federal match dollars. Yes. Yep.
• 33:49
  So your your Dingle Johnson Act, as you mentioned, your your Pittman Robertson Act and the sale of the hunting, fishing licenses and trapping licenses and permits. But the issue that we see specifically and again, everyone feels the growing pains of inflation. Right? Cost of business continues to go up, so it does the same for the state. And while it's sometimes people look at it as, oh, it's another tax, the state just, you know, they they take all of my money, they do all of these things.
• 34:14
  It's not really the case for the State Fish and Wildlife Agency. And so legislatures, what they like to do is they'll get a constituent or they wanna do a feel good bill and again, these people are are very, you know, deserving. But they'll say, you know, I need to do a feel good bill this year. I need to do a discounted hunting license for first responders or I need to do librarians in my county deserve to get a free fishing license, whatever it may be. The legislature sometimes doesn't understand the financial impact that it has on the state fish and wildlife agencies.
• 34:47
  And so when the legislature has the authority to continue to give away those funds that they are not giving the state fish and wildlife agencies, It's taking from that money that they're able to put back into conservation and to public access to fix up your boat ramp, to do controlled burns, to do all these important conservation projects, wetlands, managing wildlife management areas, things like that. And so the state agency is coming to, you know, us and partners and saying, you know, we wanna do all of these initiatives, these good things that you guys are coming with us to be proactive, but we just don't have the funding to do so. So one of CSF's top 10 priorities this year is for the reimbursement of free and discounted hunting and fishing licenses. So what that looks like is say, you know, after 07/01/2026, say, Maryland's legislature wants to pass a bill that would give, like I said, firefighters, municipal police officers, whatever it may be, a free or discounted hunting and fishing license. The state would then have to reimburse the agency for their lost funding.
• 35:48
  Folks that don't really necessarily know how Pittman Robertson or Dingle Johnson work is the state, the money that they get from their fishing or hunting licenses that is sold, then puts them in a position where they can collect funds from the federal government that is through those two acts. So there's a formula. So if a state sells x, then they can get y from the federal government, and that's what your state gets every year to do conservation work.
• 36:14
  Mike Brasher: How much those states get from the from those federal sources of funds depends on how much they're able to collect at the state level. Right? So whenever they're when they're they don't get that money from those discounted licenses, it's more than that that they're losing. They're also losing the opportunity to get that federal match.
• 36:30
  Kaylee Lager: Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly. So it's almost a compounded loss. Absolutely.
• 36:33
  Yep. So, you know, a state says Maryland, sell, and I don't know the exact number, 300,000 hunting licenses a year. That's gonna go into the formula to the feds to say, okay, Maryland gets x amount of dollars from us because they have this many, you know, certified licenses, hunting licenses or fishing licenses sold, so this is what we're gonna give them and that's that's what they operate off of. And we mentioned Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania's Game Commission and the Fish and Boat Commission both are just about a 100% funded by the sale of hunting and fishing license.
• 37:02
  They do not get anything from the state at all. So when these bills, especially in states like that, when it's such a large impact of their funding comes from these sources and the legislature wants to give them away, again, well intended, but fiscal fiscally irresponsible in the long run, they're really feeling the impact. And, again, cost of doing business goes up, increase in need for conservation project goes up, but there's no funding.
• 37:28
  Mike Brasher: And, ultimately, if you follow that down the line, it takes away from the hunting and fishing opportunities and trapping opportunities of the everyday people that would get out and wanna use those public lands. Right?
• 37:36
  Kaylee Lager: Exactly right.
• 37:37
  Mike Brasher: And and so this is a great example of the role of folks like yourself is to first educate the decision makers on the add on consequences of those those decisions. Like, hey, understand what you're wanting to do, but make sure you under you know how this affects things, opportunities, and resources farther on down the line. Right?
• 37:57
  Kaylee Lager: Absolutely. You're a 100% right.
• 37:59
  Swanny Evans: I've got an incredible segue.
• 38:01
  Mike Brasher: That's stupid.
• 38:02
  Swanny Evans: So we're talking about hunting licenses, and Ducks Unlimited is huge on college campuses. And there's you know, we're we're talking about discounted licenses or free licenses are really the problem. We are a fan of reducing some hunting license burdens, and that is specifically surrounding college students. So there's been an effort that CSF has has really pushed hard and curious.
• 38:26
  Mike Brasher: Explain why. What's the difference there? Right?
• 38:28
  Swanny Evans: We we are gonna explain why. Yeah. So when you look at hunting, it it from a recruitment and retention perspective, a lot of people lapse out when they go to college. So we wanna do everything we can to ensure that people hunt when they they travel for college. And a lot of states, I think it's is it 31 states now?
• 38:46
  Kaylee Lager: At least yes.
• 38:47
  Swanny Evans: Yep. So currently, I I think it is 31 states allow for nonresident college students. So if I'm a resident of Georgia, but I moved to Montana and I'm a full time college student there, I can actually buy a hunting license as at a resident rate. So I'm much more likely to continue hunting because the burden if I had to buy as a nonresident, as a college student, would be pretty extreme. I mean, it's a significant increase.
• 39:15
  And we actually have data to support that in Montana specifically. This was a number of years ago. Once again, Josh Millspaugh at the University of Montana, he's gonna owe me something for bragging about him this whole time. But it was him and one of his students, I think it was Jonathan Carlin, and they looked at Montana was a great case study because they made that change. They allowed nonresident full time college students to be able to buy at a resident rate.
• 39:39
  They saw a 35% increase. I'm I'm speaking in rough numbers here. I think I'm getting it right. But a 35% increase in participation from those college students when they did that. And that happened, I think it was for a five year span or something along those lines.
• 39:51
  But then they did a general license update. And as part of that, something that I I think might have been a little unintended is it reverted back. And so it increased what those nonresident students were gonna have to pay by, like, 700%, something crazy. And the participation dropped off by 70%. I mean, was significant.
• 40:12
  So they were able to demonstrate a case study here of, no, it's not just a theory. It is reality that when you charge those students more, you don't allow them to buy at a resident rate, they are not gonna hunt as much. They're not gonna purchase as much, which hurts the bottom line from a Pittman Robertson perspective. It also hurts our participation, which we ultimately care about the most. We want people to engage in the outdoors.
• 40:34
  Mike Brasher: And that's the time of their young life when I'm sure there's research to to say this, to to show this, but it's that's gotta be a very formative time of their life where they're figuring out what they want to do, the things that they enjoy, the things that resonate with them. They they're developing the means and independence of doing that. And anything that we do that makes it more difficult for those folks to to try hunting, it's a bad thing.
• 41:01
  Swanny Evans: Right? That I mean, we do have that research. Lincoln Larson out at NC State, he was educated at UGA, so he got a good education. But he went to work for NC State because you gotta work somewhere. Right?
• 41:11
  But he's done a bunch of the research on college students and kind of that social science human dimensions realm. And that is the time of your life where you're out from under your parents' thumb, so you're likely to try new things. Also, the We want them to try good things. Good things. The habits
• 41:27
  Mike Brasher: the habits
• 41:28
  Swanny Evans: that you pick up.
• 41:29
  Mike Brasher: Hunting, fishing,
• 41:30
  Swanny Evans: fishing, like, you're saying. They they tend to stick too. Yep. What you get into in college, you tend to carry throughout life. So we want that to be hunting.
• 41:38
  We want it to be the outdoors or fishing or whatever it might be. So we wanna incentivize that. But that's why Kaylee should talk about what she's got going on in Pennsylvania.
• 41:46
  Kaylee Lager: Yes. I know. I was gonna say Suwanee's done a really good job of explaining CSF's top 10 priorities. I really appreciate that.
• 41:52
  Swanny Evans: I gotcha.
• 41:53
  Mike Brasher: I I do wanna be mindful of the time.
• 41:55
  Kaylee Lager: Yeah. Absolutely. I'll I'll make it quick. As as Suwanee mentioned, that's obviously that's, like I just said, one of our top 10 priorities as well. And, again, it is kinda confusing to say, okay, hey, we don't wanna give free and discounted hunting licenses for for this group, but then here I come right behind that and saying, well, college students, you know, they they get they get a little pass, but the difference is is you're either gonna get they're gonna participate or they're not.
• 42:18
  And as you mentioned, the study that came out of Montana, it's their their participation increased, did you say, 4%?
• 42:25
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. So when they initially changed it, it went up by 35%.
• 42:27
  Kaylee Lager: 35.
• 42:28
  Swanny Evans: Okay. But then when they increased it
• 42:30
  Kaylee Lager: It dropped off.
• 42:31
  Swanny Evans: It dropped off by
• 42:31
  Kaylee Lager: 70 So there you have it right there. So giving these broke college students the ability to participate in something that either they've been doing their whole lives, but now they're in college and it's either they're paying for dinner or their school books and they don't wanna pay a $250 non resident, you know, hunting license. It's either they're gonna do it or they're not. So providing these college students the ability to do it maybe at a cheaper cost is gonna keep them in it and it's gonna keep them in it for the long haul. As you mentioned, what you do in college kinda sets the stage for your adult life in most cases.
• 43:03
  But when it comes to the r three movement, it's very important in keeping these folks engaged and out there and continuing to buy licenses because as we had just mentioned, they're either gonna buy it or they're not. And if you provide them the opportunity to do so at
• 43:16
  Mike Brasher: a cheaper cost, it's better than than them not buying one at all. The the other reason why that time of a person's life is probably so important in their experiences during those years is be is because it's experiential learning. There it's one thing to have mentors. It's another to go from that mentorship to independently pursuing it on your own because then you have to figure out how it works, how do you do this, where do you go hunting, what kind of gear do I you're responsible for all those decisions. And what if they can figure that out at that phase of independence, then then they've got some confidence.
• 43:55
  Even if it even if they leave it for a few years, they have some confidence to know how to go back to it once they once they reach their once they're out on their own.
• 44:03
  Kaylee Lager: No. That's that's exactly right. And still, you know, one of my favorite things to do and again, safety's first is I enjoy hunting by myself because it tests my skills as a hunter. I really enjoy the turkey hunt as well because again, it's usually just me out there against the bird and the same thing if if I'm duck hunting by myself and it's an like a wildlife management area that I can walk into and I don't have to worry about falling off the boat or doing anything crazy like that. It kinda tests your skills as a hunter and when you're successful, you just have that much more gratitude and self respect.
• 44:30
  And it's a great feeling. So we're we're kinda hoping to do that with with the college student age group there is to give them the fuel to to be successful on their own and and to feel confident to go out and do that and at a reasonable price. But in Pennsylvania specifically, and I I keep saying PA, but they're really on fire up there, is there's a bill to do exactly that. It's for for the reimbursement of free and discounted, hunting and fishing license that was introduced, and then also for the college student, nonresident college student fees. And also, it's it's also good to note that it's not more than four consecutive years.
• 45:04
  So if you have somebody that's going and, you know, they they failed some classes for either whatever it may be and they've been there for six years, it stops at four years so that way the state, you know, it's not quote unquote milking the system or however you wanna look at it. But that's something that, you know, legislators have been able to to get on board with. We are huge on r three as as both of your organizations are. And again, when they hear from all of us kind of saying the same message, it it sticks and resonates a little bit better. And that kind of points me to the importance of collaboration, not only between our organizations, but between sportsmen and women themselves.
• 45:38
  If we can all kind of sing and dance the same, it's it's a lot better when there's just a few of us. So with that, I I encourage folks to please pay attention to what's going on in your states. Federal level's very important, but but really pay attention to what's going on in your state house. And if there's something that you don't like or something that you like or an idea you have, reach out not only to, you know, your representative, but but reach out to folks who are members of the legislative sportsman's caucuses or or reach out. If you live in my region, please feel free to reach out to me.
• 46:07
  Reach out to Suwanee, you know, reach out to Mike to d u. You know, we talk and if there's an issue that we might not necessarily be able to help you with, we can certainly point you on the direction of of who to to contact. So
• 46:19
  Mike Brasher: If y'all are listening to this and you have any questions or want contact information from Kaylee or Suwanee or myself, you can always get that just by emailing us at dupodcast@ducks.org, and we can get you connected to the right person. That'd be the easiest way to do that. There are a host of other issues piece issues and legislation related to those issues across all these different states. A lot of them involve a little bit of hand to hand combat when you talk about, what is it, ballot box biology or what's the phrase that folks use?
• 46:45
  Swanny Evans: That's the one.
• 46:45
  Mike Brasher: That's it? That's right, John. Where where the where, yeah, the the there's a movement in some states to to wanna roll back some of the opportunities that we have or would like to have as hunters, anglers, and trappers, and those things have been prominent in some states, and we can't we can't pretend that those won't come to our state either. Right?
• 47:05
  Swanny Evans: Absolutely. Yeah.
• 47:06
  Mike Brasher: There's a number of issues out there, whether we're talking big cats in in some of the Western states, you're talking about bears in other states, or a host of other issues. I mean, even saw one of the issues in there talking about how some states have imposed were able to impose catch and release only for some under some type of angling opportunities. And and I don't think that was related to to the ecology of the fish either. I think it was related to this sorta the sorta anti hunting, anti fishing
• 47:34
  Kaylee Lager: Social pressure.
• 47:35
  Mike Brasher: That's right. Social pressure. So that's the other thing that your group keeps an eye on, summarizes, and and it it really my eyes were opened this week about the importance of having a group like yours and all of your fellow staff across The US and being on top of all of those issues and serving as that critical conduit for transfer of information and experience and tactics and strategies because state legislators have full time jobs, have other have have full time lives outside of out outside of the time that they spend at at state houses. I've interestingly enough, I was riding up the elevator last night or two nights ago and just happened to be to get on the elevator with the state representative of my home county. We were like, oh my gosh.
• 48:18
  Because he had no idea I was gonna be here. He had no idea that or I had no idea he was going to be. And I guarantee you, he's not thinking about all of these issues that are in that in that document, but they are important at some level, at some time, for even those states, for all those states. So any final pressing issues before we close out? Kaylee, I know you have another meeting that you gotta get to.
• 48:41
  Kaylee Lager: No. You're good. You're good. A lot of the issues, again, is is again, I don't wanna, you know, continue to beat this drum, but it's the funding. I mean, a lot of the things that we're seeing now or it's rather, you know, cuts from state agencies, you have states that are in fiscal and and budget crisises where they're saying, okay, we can't spend any more money and and kind of going the opposite direction.
• 49:02
  We need to start making significant cuts. I mean, we saw that at the federal level, and then obviously that translated over to the state level with with with state politics and and, you know, fiscal disasters that are kind of happening everywhere. But keep an eye on the funding because, again, it's something that, you know, you might not pay attention to off the off the bat, but it's gonna trickle down to you and it's gonna affect those WMAs that you wanna go to, those state forests you wanna go to, you know, those lands that say, example, PFQF put money in towards and, you know, they worked with the state agency, but now the state agency is kind of being derelict not because intentionally or for for ill will. They just don't have the money to continue to maintain it, and that puts stressors on the nonprofits such as DUPFQF that, you know, are doing boots on the ground conservation work outside of the policy work that they do. So just pay attention to what's going on in your state legislature.
• 49:52
  It's gonna impact you, you know, you're you're paying attention to, okay, they have, you know, they might wanna increase your taxes this year. There might be something that's gonna, you know, in Maryland, ban the use of gasoline, you know, leaf blowers, things like that. Those impact your day to day life, but so the decisions that are made, either for the regulatory or legislative process for fish and wildlife issues. So pay attention, reach out to your legislators, reach out to your NGOs, your conservation critter groups, just kind of stay abreast of what's going on because it's gonna trickle down and you'll see it in your backyard if you're ready
• 50:25
  Mike Brasher: for it or not. Suwanee, final thoughts from you and observations from you on the importance of Kaylee and CSF and the work that her colleagues do.
• 50:33
  Swanny Evans: Yeah. We couldn't do what like I said, I'm one person. We're just getting started in this the state affairs realm. And even once we grow a team, we still would not be able to operate the way that we do without our partners like CSF and DU and and many others that are here and and that that aren't here. So we rely heavily on those relationships.
• 50:53
  It is very much a relationship game and we're we're almost always all working together on different issues. Obviously, there's some things that we're gonna be interested in that maybe DU won't engage in and vice versa, but we're always communicating on about that. I mean, was just talking with Bronson with Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and we were talking about ballot box biology and what's going on and what's bubbling up in Colorado. You mentioned proposition one twenty seven from last year with a big cat bill. There's another initiative coming on that is going to try to add a commission that's gonna over you know, it could destroy the the state wildlife agency as we know it, and something similar is going on in Oregon.
• 51:29
  So there's all these things that we need to pay attention to.
• 51:32
  Mike Brasher: States are the laboratories of democracy, and there are a lot of bad ideas out there too in amongst those laboratories. These are some that you're talking about. It's an absolutely big it's accurate statement.
• 51:43
  Swanny Evans: But and we wanna ensure the the conservation funding that Kaylee hit on is huge. The ability for our organizations to operate is huge with raffle tickets. We're we're engaged in Washington with Matt Little, one of your staff up there. And then we're engaged in Ohio right now on a electronic raffle, online raffle issue in in Ohio with Kyle Roura. And then Pennsylvania is is dealing with you can't buy a raffle ticket with a what is it?
• 52:08
  With a credit card.
• 52:09
  Kaylee Lager: Yeah. And and people are doing that because they just you know, they don't know that that law exists. Yeah. And and Nikki with DU, he was a big proponent of that, like, last year, and I know that that's still kinda going through. So, again, as as Swanee mentioned, it's just it's a cumulative effort here.
• 52:23
  Mike Brasher: Yeah. And you just don't think about those things, and I'm sure a lot of people are surprised. There have been some issues, some legislation in California that limited our ability as Ducks Unlimited and other conservation organizations to advertise to certain age groups, advertise certain firearm products to certain age groups. And there you can understand some of the some of the intent behind that bill, but then you're like, it's also the unintended consequences that oftentimes legislators don't think about whenever they're trying to do good. And so it's your job and our jobs to to remind them, say, hey.
• 52:55
  This really has a detrimental impact on on good conservation work. Let's see if we can figure out a way to rewrite this bill, amend this bill a little bit to still preserve what it is you're trying to achieve while not one eye causing harm in these other areas. And so I know our some of our teams worked on that last year or two years ago whenever that came about, and so just another example. Right.
• 53:20
  Swanny Evans: So the to to put a bow on it, I think I would just commend Kaylee and CSF and the leadership there for hosting this summit. I think it's extremely important. You already commented on it, Mike. But this is the only meeting that I'm aware of that I've ever attended where you're going to have state natural resources agencies, directors, and commissioners. You're gonna have state representatives and senators.
• 53:45
  You're gonna have leadership from these large nonprofits like the ones that we work for and and many others that are represented here. And then you've got industry as well. You've got the trade associations. You've got federal ammunition. You've got all sorts of people coming together to talk about these issues, how important they are.
• 54:02
  Not everybody agrees on exactly how to handle it, but that's what this forum really provides is that opportunity for discussion and finding that common ground and figuring out how to move forward. I just I think it's a huge value that this conference provides.
• 54:16
  Mike Brasher: A fun question to close out to each of you. What's your favorite duck, Kaylee? Mike, that's a tough one.
• 54:23
  Kaylee Lager: It's as as an Atlantic flyaway person, I'd I've been leaning towards black duck, but I can't lie to you. I get very excited when I see Widgin. Nice. Okay. I've I've it's pretty much a tie, but, yeah, I have I have nothing wrong with shooting black ducks.
• 54:36
  Yep. And, it's kinda neat because you have people from the other flyaways who who, you know, don't either see them often or don't see them at all. It's kind of like the cinnamon teal for the rest of the world. But
• 54:47
  Mike Brasher: Were you listening to the conversation yesterday that we had with with senator Ducampson?
• 54:51
  Kaylee Lager: I don't think I was. Was that what it was about? Yeah.
• 54:54
  Mike Brasher: That part of his question, yes, was related to that. And I think I even mentioned the black duck being the equivalent of the cinnamon teal to a of
• 55:01
  Kaylee Lager: eastern Well, there you go. Yeah.
• 55:03
  Mike Brasher: For sure. Exactly. Have I asked you this before? We didn't we didn't discuss this on our previous if I if we did, I forgot. So you're No.
• 55:10
  Swanny Evans: You didn't ask me my favorite duck. I wish you had. It might have been a different answer. I I'm gonna go with the wood duck because I live in Georgia. I live in the Piedmont.
• 55:19
  I mean, that's the opportunity. It's the most beautiful duck. It it is very tasty. I went this past Saturday morning and I was shooting this little CZ double barrel Bobwhite with the two triggers, you
• 55:30
  Mike Brasher: know. Twenty, twenty eight, 12.
• 55:32
  Swanny Evans: It was a 20 gauge. Okay. Yep. And one barrel was bent to the right, one to the left because I was just shooting on all sides
• 55:38
  Mike Brasher: of them. Okay. Know? Okay. I
• 55:41
  Kaylee Lager: was gonna say I'm or I'm make I'm counting your digits here. You're still good.
• 55:46
  Mike Brasher: That's really interesting. Wood duck has was James Cummins' favorite favorite duck. It's it is also mine. It's yeah. I like that.
• 55:56
  Swanny Evans: Why is it the wood duck for you, Mike?
• 55:58
  Mike Brasher: Well, because it is a resident breeder of the state where I grew up, Mississippi. It is one of the most colorful duck species that we have out there. There's some charisma and compassion between the you know, this sense of charisma and compassion between the male, the the the drake and the hen, between a wood duck pair. They have saved many a hunt for me. They are also one of the best tasting and most consistent tasting ducks out there.
• 56:30
  Swanny Evans: How do you cook them?
• 56:31
  Mike Brasher: Well, I pluck the feathers. At least I'll pluck the feathers off the breast and thighs and legs, and then I will, you know, sort of take that off of the off the keel, off of the off the carcass. So then I've got these two halves, essentially, with the skin on, and ideally, birds are gonna be nice and fat with that real pearly white fat. And then I'll score the breast and score the skin lightly and marinate them in olive oil or avocado oil and salt, pepper, and some rosemary, and kinda let them rest for six hours, something like that, and just in a cast iron skillet, start them start them low, let that fat render out skin side down, and then cook them to a 125, 130 degrees. And using a thermometer has been a game changer for me.
• 57:18
  I've heard heard other people say this as well just because you can go from perfect to horrible on Very quickly. On wild game, duck especially because of how thin it is. And so I try very and I can't yet eyeball it. I've been doing it for years, but so I always go back to that little thermometer because things are different from one, but it's
• 57:37
  Kaylee Lager: Also depends on what burner you're using when
• 57:39
  Mike Brasher: you're It does. It does. But the the fat is such a it's a nutty, creamy, and it's it's amazing.
• 57:49
  Kaylee Lager: I'm glad it's almost dinner time. No. I'm getting hungry. Yeah. Was gonna say, yeah, we're not too far.
• 57:53
  Swanny Evans: You live around here. Right?
• 57:55
  Mike Brasher: Are you kidding? I don't have any wood duck in the freezer, though. Thank you all so much for joining us here. Kaylee Lager, the assistant manager for mid for the Mid Atlantic States for the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation, and Swanee Evans, the director of governor government affairs for Presidents Forever, Quail Forever. This has been a fabulous conversation.
• 58:15
  Thank you all for your time. Thanks for everything that you do. So thanks. Appreciate y'all's time.
• 58:20
  Kaylee Lager: No. Thank you very much. I've had a blast.
• 58:22
  Swanny Evans: Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it.
• 58:24
  Mike Brasher: Also, we'll thank our producer, Chris Isaac, who does a great job getting all these this information together and out to you and to you, the listener. We thank you for supporting the podcast. We thank you for supporting all of our conservation organizations that are represented by the groups that are that are here. We encourage you to get involved, figure out what those issues are that are occur occurring in your state. Use the resources that we've talked about here on this episode and and let your state senators and representatives know what's important to you.
• 58:54
  And most importantly, as we always say, thank you for supporting waterfowl and wetlands conservation.
• 59:03
  VO: Thank you for listening to the DU podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Birddog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Birddog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
• 59:26
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