Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / From Fine Dining to Pickleball: Mike Gibbons's Journey Building Main Street Ventures and Toledo Pickle Company

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From Fine Dining to Pickleball: Mike Gibbons's Journey Building Main Street Ventures and Toledo Pickle Company · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:12
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. As you listen today, let one
0:18
idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Cotespotti
0:22
and today's guest is Mike Gibbons, Co founder of Toledo
0:25
Pickle Company, where he also leads the restaurant and bar
0:28
operations at this dynamic venue.
0:31
Toledo Pickle Company is a 40,000 square foot riverfront
0:34
pickleball and entertainment facility in the Basula
0:37
neighborhood of Toledo. They bring together through
0:41
sport, good food and playful energy.
0:44
Guests enjoy 10 indoor and two outdoor pickleball courts, a
0:48
rock climbing wall, arcade games and the waterfront restaurant
0:52
called Stay Out of the Kitchen Grill.
0:55
Since opening in January of 2025, the complex has been
0:59
hailed in local media as a key spark for the Glass City
1:03
Riverwalk revival. Ike brought more than two
1:05
decades of hospitality expertise to the project.
1:08
He also serves as president and CEO of Main Street Ventures, a
1:12
group known for award-winning restaurants across the Midwest.
1:17
Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
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Back benefits.com. Now back to our guest today, the
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CEO and Founder of Alito Pickle Company, Mike Gibbons.
2:17
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:19
It's my pleasure. So before we talk about the
2:23
Toledo Pickle Company, I want to learn about the work that you
2:27
did before with Main St. Ventures, company that owned and
2:31
operated fine dining and high end casual restaurants for over
2:35
45 years across 5 states. What was it?
2:40
Yeah, go ahead. So, so Main St.
2:42
Ventures was founded in 1981. I had two partners, Dennis Saris
2:48
and Dieter Bohm, and the three of us that actually all worked
2:51
for the CA Muir Corporation. I don't know if you're familiar
2:53
with them, but they had a restaurant, Columbus called
2:55
Engine House. Number 5 was one of their
2:57
places. And I started with them when I
3:01
was in college. I went to Xavier in Cincinnati
3:03
and I worked for Charlie's Crab, which is in Montgomery, OH, And
3:09
so I, I worked there, got my degree.
3:12
I was a pre law student under minored in, in majored in
3:15
political science. And when I graduated, they were
3:21
going to move me to Ann Arbor. And I thought, well, this is a
3:24
chance. I planned on going to law
3:25
school. Then I'll at least have them pay
3:28
for my move and I'll get up there and go to law school.
3:31
And I was promoted pretty quickly there.
3:33
I became the general manager of the Gandy Dancer, which is the
3:36
old train station. Ann Arbor still exists and it
3:40
went on to be a district manager with them and worked for Dieter
3:44
Bohm. Dieter was vice president
3:46
operations for the Muir Corporation.
3:48
Then in 1979, I left and joined Dennis Sarris, who was another
3:53
former Muir employee. And we teamed up and started
3:58
opening restaurants. And we had three places.
4:01
And Dieter was trying to get me to come back to Muir.
4:04
And you know, I was, I was a young guy that I was 2829 years
4:08
old. And I said to Dieter, because
4:12
he'd always said, you know, when I'm 40, I'm going to make a
4:13
decision on whether I'm going to go out on my own or not.
4:16
Dieter was probably 42 or 43 at this point.
4:19
And in fact, he just turned 90. And so, so I said, Dieter, why
4:26
don't you join us? And we kind of laughed about it
4:28
because, you know, we couldn't afford somebody like Dieter
4:30
about our payroll. And, and he and Dennis had never
4:34
got along. They were kind of Dennis was a
4:37
shoot from the hip guy and Dieter was very buttoned down,
4:40
black and white. This is, you know, this is this.
4:42
And so there was kind of that the personality difference.
4:45
They liked each other, but they were they were different people.
4:48
And I was somewhere in the middle.
4:50
And and I mentioned it to Dennis.
4:52
I said, you know, I had, I had lunch with home today and I
4:56
mentioned this to him. He goes, what the hell do we
4:57
need him for? And at this point, Dennis, this
5:02
was so many years ago, it's, it's interesting to think about
5:05
it now. Dennis was an alcoholic and he
5:09
had gone into rehab and he got out and he started thinking more
5:14
clearly. And he says, you know what, if
5:16
we want to do something, it would be great to bring someone
5:19
on with some experience that we don't have.
5:22
And so Dieter joined us in 1981 and we formed Main St.
5:25
Ventures and, and really the rest of its history, I mean, the
5:30
whole thing was, was the three of us sitting down talking about
5:34
what we wanted. And what we looked at was where
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the market was for our businesses.
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And if you think about what happened to the cities many
5:44
years ago, and you know, I, I look at it now and, and see it
5:49
happening again, But the, the developers were looking for
5:52
cheap land, you know, the shopping center.
5:55
You couldn't build a shopping center downtown, so you went out
5:57
to farms and you built a shopping center.
6:00
And then what did that do to the cities that gutted them?
6:03
So we saw that opportunity is back in the city.
6:06
So we came up with our company named Main Street because we
6:09
wanted to go back into the Main Street and bring people back
6:13
downtown. And we really started in Ann
6:15
Arbor and our Ann Arbor had a a mall that had really hurt their
6:19
downtown. And we ended up with six
6:22
restaurants in downtown Ann Arbor, where five were in
6:25
downtown and 1 was just a little off the, off the beaten path.
6:29
And, and, but that was, that was how the company was formed.
6:32
And in the vision that we had in the late 70s and early 80s was
6:36
to, to help revitalize the downtowns.
6:39
It was an opportunity to get cheaper rents than you would get
6:42
in the mall. And there was plenty of parking
6:44
because everybody was at the mall.
6:46
So Ann Arbor was the, the smart place to start.
6:50
That's where Dennis and I both live there.
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Dieter lived in Grosse Pointe. So we set up our office in Ann
6:56
Arbor and, and started, started doing that.
6:59
And then the other thing is we wanted it.
7:01
We didn't want to open one concept and we didn't want it to
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be a cookie cutter. We wanted things to be
7:07
different. We wanted, we wanted to, we, we
7:10
had, we had four or five real seafoods at one time.
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None of them looked the same. The menu was similar, but we
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wanted people to say, oh, let's go see the new real seafood
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because it's not going to be exactly like the other ones.
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And so we did the same with the we, we did seafood, we did
7:27
steak, we did Italian. And those were the, those were
7:30
the big things that we did and we tried to do, even when we did
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what I'd call the American grill type restaurants, we tried to
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make it a notch above anything else that was out there.
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And so we, we opened Italian, we had Grazi Polyosias, we had
7:45
several real seafoods, we had several chop houses and that was
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we, that's what we stuck with. And we felt like in Ann Arbor,
7:56
we had four restaurants and one street corner.
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We felt like, you know, if we don't compete with ourselves,
8:00
somebody else will. And, and so we wanted to kind of
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corner the market on that, give people some options.
8:05
So we had two Italian restaurants and once right
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across the street from each other in Ann Arbor, Grazi and
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and Polio. And polio was less expensive,
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more family friendly. Grazi was very high end, more
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northern Italy and pop polyo is more southern Italy.
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And so we, we just kind of from there, that's how we, that's how
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we grew. We, we built the, we built the
8:29
concept and, and you know, when somebody said, well, wasn't it
8:32
complicated? Well, you know, it, it's the
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operating systems were the same for all of them.
8:38
The only difference was a recipe book and the menu and the way
8:40
they looked. But when you look under the hood
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of a car, the engine's the engine, and that's what that's
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what we had. We had the operating system that
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worked that we could structurally put any restaurant
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in. So at its peak, how many
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different concepts? How many different locations?
8:56
We had five concepts and 26 locations.
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And what does it look like today?
9:05
There are still are the five concepts and I think they
9:08
probably have 22 locations now. And what is your involvement in
9:15
it, if any? Well, I, I sold Main St.
9:18
Ventures in 2019 and my partner Dieter retired in 2000.
9:25
As I said, he's he just turned 90.
9:29
Dennis was ill. Dennis had esophageal cancer and
9:34
he had his esophagus removed and he was doing fine.
9:38
And but it came back and he said, like, I got to get out.
9:42
And so I said, all right, we're going to sell.
9:45
You're going, I'm going. And so probably he, he was in
9:52
the hospital at that point, but I was, I was working with my
9:57
director of operations who'd been with me at that .14 years,
10:00
Kevin Godeko. Kevin, I had hired from
10:04
Carrabba's and he had been with me 14 years and I said, Kevin,
10:10
you ought to buy the company. He says, well, I, I don't, I
10:12
don't have the resources. I said, well, let's find them.
10:15
And so we went out, We found people to invest.
10:18
One of the key investors, a guy named Bill Martin, who is a
10:23
wealthy, wealthy man who lives in Ann Arbor.
10:26
He owns the Bank of Ann Arbor. And he actually was the the
10:30
interim athletic director at one time at University of Michigan.
10:32
He did it for a dollar a year. And, but smart, smart guy, smart
10:37
businessman and he is, he and his son and and I think six or
10:41
seven other people including Kevin and and some of the
10:44
district managers all invested and bought the company.
10:48
And so I had two restaurants that were relatively new at that
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.1 was the Toledo Chop House and the second was Grazian in
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Midland, MI. So we didn't have EBITDA.
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So I kept those until an EBITDA was established.
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They bought Midland and I didn't really want to sell Toledo
11:08
because I had investors in that one.
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I was the primary investor, but I had any time I had investors,
11:16
it was friends and relatives. And so I wanted to keep that,
11:18
make sure that they got the return that I hope they'd get.
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And, and so I've kept that and eventually I think they'll
11:26
probably want to buy it, but while I'm still in good health
11:31
and everything I want to, I want to be the one that that make
11:33
sure that our investors are taken care of.
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I can appreciate that. Good heart, good man.
11:39
So what first sparked your vision for creating this
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professional style pickleball facility?
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Well, I I was, as my wife says, I was flunking retirement.
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I was a little stir crazy and I had gotten active in pickleball
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and my son-in-law and my daughter were real active.
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We played a lot of pickleball and I live in Toledo, but we
12:04
played it in Sylvania. OH, and people always say, what
12:07
are we going to do in the winter?
12:08
Gosh, we like to play. We like to play.
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So Brian and my daughter Jenny were in Texas and they saw some
12:15
pickleball complex and they said, God, you got to see this
12:18
place. It's fantastic.
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And so I went out. I looked at a couple places in
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Kansas City. I looked at, I looked at a
12:25
couple places in Texas. I saw it was going on in
12:28
different in different spots and I wanted to do a little more
12:32
than what they were doing. I just want to build pickleball
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courts. I wanted to make something that
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would be differentiating. And so I created what I call a
12:42
family entertainment center. And so we've got 10 indoor
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pickleball courts, 2 outdoor pickleball courts, rock climbing
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wall. We've got a patio outdoors.
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They'll be, they'll be 300 feet of docks going in this summer.
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And so you can pull up in your boat.
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We've got fire pits out there and a bar out there.
13:00
We've got a stage out there with the entertainment of some kind
13:02
every night from karaoke to bands to whatever, you know,
13:07
there's always something going on, something entertaining.
13:11
The 40,000 square feet is on one floor.
13:13
We got another 10,000 square feet outside, another 6 or 7000
13:17
square feet upstairs. And so there's a little
13:22
something for everybody. And then what happens is the
13:25
entire place is a restaurant. Doesn't matter where you sit,
13:28
there's a QR code on the table. You take your phone, shoot the
13:31
QR code, you order the food magically appears a few minutes
13:34
later. So we, we can be serving 1000
13:39
meals and it's just, it's just no matter where you sit, we know
13:42
where you are. You can move from one table to
13:44
the next and we can still find you and bring you your food.
13:48
And so it's, it's been amazing. And I, I think the biggest
13:51
surprise to us was the number of events that are occurring.
13:55
I, I hired someone to be my marketing director, management
14:00
or membership, marketing, membership and catering.
14:05
She was so busy. She's now the catering director
14:09
and, and she's, you know, the events plan or everything else.
14:13
And we're having, I don't want to exaggerate.
14:16
We'll have an event every day of the week, though, and some days
14:20
it might be two or three smaller ones.
14:22
There are events that we never dreamed would happen, but it's
14:25
like an after prompt for one of the local high schools.
14:28
They took the building from 10:10 PM to 3:00 AM and came in
14:32
and played pickleball and had a blast.
14:35
And so 1 high school told another one.
14:37
Now we've got two more signed up for this year.
14:40
So it's just been, it's been great.
14:41
They do a big golf tournament in Toledo every year and so last
14:46
July we had 700 people in there for this, the the golf gala they
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call it, and they had a big silent auction and people
14:54
playing pickleball and we had a band and entertainment.
14:57
It was just, it was just a lot of fun.
15:01
Well, when you do something, you don't go half.
15:03
You went all the way. I mean, this is a giant
15:05
facility, lots of courts, the restaurant side of things.
15:10
You knew that space really well, right?
15:12
You had been in that space for years, the pickleball, the
15:15
family entertainment center part of it.
15:18
This was new. What were some of the things
15:21
that surprised you were that were unexpected challenges?
15:25
Well, the, the the interesting thing is putting together that
15:28
staff because they're really there's no pickleball pros per
15:33
SE. There's some really good
15:34
players. You know, it's in in Toledo now
15:37
Dick Columbus, I know has their their own professional team now.
15:40
And although there is a guy from from Toledo plays on that team,
15:45
so. And I knew most of pickleball
15:48
players in town. And the thing that's always a
15:51
challenge, pickleball players are cheap.
15:52
And they'd be the first ones to say it.
15:54
It's not like golfers or or even yeah, even tennis players,
15:58
they'll join a club. It's, there's I, I can remember
16:01
when I was building this place, it's late on a Friday afternoon
16:05
and this guy pulls up in this black Porsche SUV and he's,
16:10
he's, I think Indian. I know him really well now, Sam,
16:16
but he, he came up and he said, what, what's going on here?
16:21
And I said, well, we're building a pickleball club and
16:23
restaurant, blah, blah, blah. And he says, can I get a tour?
16:26
You know, I'm just leaving, you know, it's late in the
16:28
afternoon, the construction shut down for the day.
16:31
Says, is there someone that can give me a tour?
16:32
I said, Sam, come on, I'll, I'll show you Ralph.
16:35
So I walked through and he goes, wow, he's going, this is big,
16:40
this is really big. Says you're going to have a
16:42
sauna. I said, no, I'm not going to
16:43
have a sauna. You're going to have showers.
16:45
No, I'm not going to have showers.
16:46
Well, what's it going to cost to join?
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And I said, well, there's different tiers of membership.
16:53
So that's so expensive. And I and he said, well, why?
16:57
Why would you charge so much? I said, well, let me ask you
16:59
something. I love your car, that beautiful
17:04
Porsche. He says, yeah, it's really nice.
17:06
I said, why don't you drive a Kia?
17:08
He goes, well, what do you mean? He says a Porsche.
17:12
A Kia is not a Porsche. I said to little Pickles, not
17:15
just pickleball. There's a lot more to it.
17:18
And and The funny thing was after all that and I thought I'd
17:21
never see this guy get he was the first member.
17:24
He's there every day he's and not so it, it was, it was
17:29
interesting, but, but that really was kind of the hurdle
17:32
we're we're facing And we knew that was going to be a
17:34
challenge, although you don't have to be a member to play and
17:38
that, and that's a challenge to people.
17:39
We have to, you know, constantly reinforce that you don't, you
17:42
don't have to join. You come in and play anytime you
17:44
want. You can pay, pay for court time.
17:48
We have discounted times, you know, early afternoon, we don't
17:51
get a lot of play. So we're we're looking to fill
17:53
that, that those time slots, You know, every night it's packed
17:57
every morning it's packed. But, you know, there's time,
17:59
there's times in there where, you know, we, we reduce the
18:01
rates and, you know, it's like Uber does with their, their, you
18:06
know, types of rush hours and everything.
18:08
Yeah, surge pricing. So yeah, those, those are some
18:11
of the challenges. But I, I, I think the, the place
18:15
itself turned out so much better than I expected.
18:19
And I, you know, there was a, an artist that we hired to do a
18:23
mural on the building. And I had not met this guy and
18:27
he and I have got to be very close friends and I'm working
18:30
with them a lot of projects right now.
18:32
Guy named Dean Davis, who did the mural at one end of the
18:35
building. And I was so impressed with
18:37
that. I said, Dean, I want you to do
18:38
some stuff inside the building. So at one end of the inside,
18:43
there's a guy up there playing pickleball.
18:45
And at the other end of the building, there's a woman hit
18:48
the ball back and forth to him and he's and it's, it's
18:50
dynamite. I mean, you look at you go, wow,
18:52
that is impressive. It's all done with spray paint.
18:55
It is just, it's just amazing. You got to see it, to believe
18:58
it. And so he's done all my signage
19:00
in there. And now I'm working with him on
19:03
with the, the Metro Parks is doing a walkway through the city
19:06
of Toledo. So I'm working with Dean and
19:08
we're doing 100 works of art on the, on the walkway, whether
19:13
it's going to be a sculpture and, and I'm helping him raise
19:16
funds to get this done. He's going to oversee it.
19:19
We're getting involved with the School of Performing Arts in
19:21
Toledo for for some sculpture and some painting, but there'll
19:25
be a lot of different things going on down there.
19:26
So it'll be more than just a walkway, it'll be an art walk.
19:30
Why did you get involved with that?
19:32
Was it specifically because of the work that you were doing
19:34
with the artist at your facility?
19:36
Well, yeah, that was part of it. And I, and I'm a fan of Toledo.
19:39
I've, I've lived there since 1984 and I, I think Toledo is a
19:45
gem. It's a, it's a great place to
19:47
raise a family. And I've just been passionate
19:50
about that. And I've had, I had four
19:52
restaurants downtown and I had one in one of the suburbs.
19:56
And I, I think we've been a small part of a catalyst to, to
20:01
drive the downtown forward. And then another big one was Pro
20:04
Medica, which is the, the health system in Toledo.
20:07
And Pro Medica moved their headquarters downtown.
20:10
And when they did that, I put a restaurant in their
20:12
headquarters, the chop houses and Pro Medica.
20:15
And I it was interesting because the the CEO of Pro Medica's guy
20:18
named Randy Ostra here and I have pretty good friends and we
20:22
are at a wine dinner. And what was the old Key Bank
20:25
building that Pro Medica was buying to put their headquarters
20:28
in? And on the 1st floor there's
20:30
it's just massive, beautiful first floor, all glass, plate
20:33
glass, looking down the river. And I'm standing there drinking
20:37
a glass of wine and Randy walks over and he says, be a hell of a
20:40
place to put a restaurant, wouldn't it?
20:42
I said, God, Randy, it really would.
20:43
He says, OK, you're doing it. That was that.
20:46
That was a done deal. It was like, so I'm not talking
20:49
to anybody else. I want you to do it.
20:51
And, and we worked the deal and, and it's been great.
20:55
So I, I, I've been passionate about the downtown.
20:57
That's was really the answer I was trying to get to.
21:00
Yeah, and you've talked about how Toledo Pickle has been a
21:03
real game changer for Toledo Mayor talks about it all the
21:07
time. Why do you think it's been such
21:09
a big catalyst? I, I think it, it shows that
21:13
people are not afraid to come downtown.
21:15
Now It's, it's, you know, they're, there's a, there's a
21:19
baseball team down there. There's a hockey team down
21:21
there. I'm working, I'm working with
21:23
another group to bring professional soccer down there.
21:27
Toledo Pickles down there in the Vistula area, there's a, a thing
21:30
called Ostrich town, which is restaurants, you know, a little
21:35
bit of an environment, you know, it's starting, it's starting to
21:37
grow, it's starting to expand out into the, into the, the
21:40
whole area and it's just bringing, it's breathing new
21:44
life into downtown. What was at the location before
21:47
you put Toledo? Pickle there.
21:49
OK, now this this really is kind of a funny story.
21:52
I had two restaurants across the river.
21:54
I had Zias and real seafood company and we put those the the
22:00
the mayor back then was a guy named Cardi Finkbeiter and
22:03
Cardi's. The you probably have heard of
22:06
Cardi. If you paid any attention to the
22:08
news, He was the one who who said, well, let's put the deaf
22:11
people by the airport. It won't bother them.
22:13
You know, they're talking about he, he was famous for being a
22:17
gaff master. I hope he never sees this
22:19
podcast. But anyway, he, he, he called me
22:24
and my partners and I went down and we looked at several places
22:27
in the city and they had a, a old storage warehouse where they
22:33
kept trucks and salt and sand and everything for winter,
22:36
winter conditions. And he wanted to turn this into
22:40
a restaurant space. And he says this is this is a
22:44
crime. What happened here?
22:45
We've got this beautiful waterfront place and we store
22:49
salt in there. He says this is crazy.
22:52
So they moved it all out. And what did they do that built
22:55
on the other side of the river? They built up 40,000 square foot
22:58
building and they put the salt, the sand and the trucks in
23:01
there. And that was what was in this
23:02
space. So when we took it over, you
23:05
know, it was interesting. If I, in retrospect now I would
23:07
have taken the building down. It would have been much easier
23:13
to deal with because it was, it was a shell building, you know,
23:15
it was just, it was, it was, you know, what kind of A10 frame
23:19
building with columns. But the the interesting thing
23:23
was that the columns were were 60 feet apart from the wall and
23:28
30 feet apart from each other, which is the exact size of a
23:31
pickleball court. So it worked really well.
23:35
And so we moved the salt trucks out, but what we had, we had to
23:39
cut the skin of the building around 8 feet up because it was
23:41
all rotted out. And we had to, we had to tear up
23:44
any concrete that was entered to put new concrete down.
23:46
And so there were, there were a lot of hurdles getting that
23:49
done. But it was a, it was a joint
23:51
partnership. The city was involved, the
23:52
Toledo Metro Parks were involved in Toledo Pickle was involved.
23:56
And although that seems complicated, we worked really
24:01
well together. Everybody wanted the same thing.
24:03
Everybody wanted a good outcome. So now you've got, but when
24:07
you're building, you've got a contractor and you've got the
24:11
Metro Parks has a vision, Toledo Pickle has a vision.
24:14
The city backed out. They left it up to us and it was
24:17
a lot of coordination and it took a lot of time, a lot of
24:19
thought, but I think the the end result was better than any of us
24:25
anticipated. I think what's interesting, if
24:28
I've got my notes correct here, Mike, is that you broke ground
24:32
in 2025. You opened your doors in 2025.
24:37
Am I right there? Yeah, well, we broke ground in
24:41
July of 24 and we opened in January of 25 S sick.
24:45
It took us six months from from start to finish.
24:48
That's an incredible turn around time for a facility.
24:50
That size, it was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy.
24:53
How did you pull those rabbits out of those hats?
24:57
Well, it's not just one rabbit, that's a whole bunch of them.
25:00
Yeah, no, it was, it was really good planning.
25:02
And you know, it's interesting. We use a design company.
25:05
I've used them for years, Design Collective, and they're in
25:09
Columbus and they had done restaurants for me.
25:13
And I went to, I went to Brett and said, hey, look, I want to
25:17
do this pickleball club is we've done some of that.
25:20
So he and I went out to Texas to look at a couple places together
25:24
and we sat there at one of these places and I took a took at the
25:29
back of a place mat. We drew this place up and it, I
25:33
don't want to say it looks exactly like that drawing, but
25:36
it's pretty close. We had it pretty well figured
25:38
out. And the thing that could have
25:40
happened there, there's the there's the 1/3 of the building
25:45
is where the championship court and the restaurant are the
25:47
kitchen and everything. The other, the other two thirds,
25:50
there's the ten courts. There's a reception area, but we
25:54
could have put 12 courts there. So we put lengthwise and width
26:01
wise and, and if we did that, there'd have been a four foot
26:05
walkway between the courts. Didn't want that.
26:08
It's not for gathering, it's not for social and socializing.
26:12
So we, we put three courts running lengthwise and six
26:17
courts running across and then we had 25 feet between them.
26:21
And so in there, I've got trees, I've got, you know, lights, I've
26:26
got places to sit tables and chairs.
26:30
And so you can be playing pickleball.
26:32
You can order a beer and sit down between games.
26:35
You can order a hamburger. We set up a menu the, the most,
26:39
there's nothing on the menu over $20.
26:41
And you know, this was this was coming out of a tough economic
26:45
time, as you know, and it and, and what I wanted to do is come
26:48
up with something where family could go down there and feed
26:52
their kids, have a pizza, do whatever and, and not spend a
26:55
fortune to do it. And doesn't cost much more than
26:59
going to a movie. And you've got a lot more
27:01
activity and things. The kids, the kids down there,
27:04
they're, they're having a blast. So how would you describe the
27:08
revenue split membership, food and drinks and I don't know,
27:13
maybe like these events that you're talking about, you got 11
27:16
a day in there. So we have.
27:19
We have two systems in there, one for the courts and, and one
27:23
for the food and beverage. And, and it's about 5050.
27:28
But what happens in the winter, the court revenue goes up and
27:33
the food revenue goes down a little bit.
27:35
In the summer, food revenue goes up and court revenue goes down.
27:38
So it kind of, if I thought about it, I might have figured
27:41
that out in advance, but I, I, I was just worried about getting a
27:44
place open and, and we're going to, and I'm going to figure it
27:46
out as we go. But it, it, it's been
27:49
interesting. And, and December, this past
27:52
December was our, our biggest month ever.
27:54
And it was almost exactly 50% split food and beverage.
27:59
Then we had merchandise. And then we have, you know, I
28:02
call arcade games, but it's, it's the basketball, it's the
28:05
Steve ball. There's still some active energy
28:08
there. And we, we lease those machines.
28:10
Somebody runs that we they just give us a check at the end of
28:13
the month. Interesting setup.
28:17
Tell us about the story behind the restaurant name.
28:20
Stay out of the kitchen grill. What's behind that?
28:23
OK, so I was building the restaurant in my mind before we
28:28
ever started construction, and I was talking to the lady who'd
28:35
been my marketing manager at Main St.
28:37
Ventures, and she wasn't really happy with the new company.
28:43
And so I talked to her and I said, hey, what would you think
28:45
about doing something different? And it turns out her husband was
28:50
a chef for us for many years and now he works at University of
28:53
Michigan in the color department.
28:55
And I said, what about Alan? Would he be interested in doing
28:59
the menu with me? And she said he would love it.
29:01
So I, I hired him to help me develop the menu, gave him the
29:06
parameters, told him what I was looking for.
29:07
I don't want anything over $20. I, I wanted to be a value
29:11
oriented menu, but I wanted to be interesting and I was sending
29:14
them all sorts of items. I'd like to see this, I'd like
29:16
to see this. And, and he came up with a menu
29:19
and one day just out of, he sent it to me and says, it says, OK,
29:24
here's your menu for this. Stay out of the kitchen grill.
29:27
And I said, I love that, you know, and, and that was it.
29:30
He was just kidding around. And it's just a.
29:33
Name he came. Up Do you play pickleball?
29:36
I don't. I have not.
29:37
Played yet? Do you know what the kitchen is
29:39
in pickleball? I had forgotten that.
29:43
Please explain for the odd I had forgotten.
29:45
Yeah, the kit, when you're playing pickleball, you're not
29:48
allowed to go in the kitchen. And so unless the ball bounces
29:53
in the kitchen, you can't go in the kitchen.
29:55
You've got to stand outside that line to play the ball and so.
29:59
It's a zone on the core. Yeah, it's a zone on the
30:01
kitchen. It's called the kitchen.
30:04
The real name is the non volley zone, which means you can't you
30:06
can't stand in or hit it out of the air.
30:08
So so this thing and Alan had played pickleball and knew the
30:13
game and and it was kind of a joke when he said it.
30:16
So, you know, so that's it, it, it came up and it stuck And, and
30:22
then we're talking about the bathrooms.
30:24
And so instead of writing, men and women would put a jar of
30:29
Pickles on one and Nope. And an empty jar on the other
30:33
side, you know, so it's Pickles, no Pickles.
30:35
And, and Dean, the artist drew this up for me, would put it on
30:39
the on the wall in there. And people love it.
30:42
That's funny. What was a particularly big
30:45
challenge in the opening process that you had to overcome?
30:52
You know, there's, there's always hurdles the the trying to
30:55
get trying to get the permits. The city of Toledo doesn't
30:59
really have a department that does their own plans anymore.
31:05
So they have to send them out to be done.
31:07
So that that's a challenge. You know, you run it in in most
31:11
of the challenges we had were little challenges weren't,
31:13
weren't any big challenges because everybody wanted to get
31:16
done and everybody was helpful. You know, when you're doing
31:21
construction, you always have problems with contractors.
31:24
So we had we had our problems with those, but we had we had
31:27
some great Subs. The electricians were just
31:30
great. I, I really enjoyed work with
31:32
the guys. The plumber, the plumber was a
31:35
one man show guy named Smoothie. I don't know where the name came
31:39
from, but whenever something came up, I'd go over and I said
31:41
Smoothie, I got a problem. It's what is it?
31:44
And I tell him, he says, you don't have a problem.
31:46
I'll take care of it. And it was, it was just the way
31:48
it was. And but there, there were some
31:50
things where the concrete that was in there, we had originally
31:55
thought we were able to keep it, but it was 2 feet thick and it
31:58
was cracking and so we had to remove it all.
32:02
And then another thing we had been reading about there was a
32:06
there are surfaces. So if you can't play on
32:11
concrete, because if you hit a pickleball on concrete, it just
32:13
skids. So typical, typical quartz are
32:17
asphalt with with an acrylic 5 layer acrylic paint job on top
32:22
of it. Asphalt softer than concrete.
32:26
So if you're on concrete for a long time, it's tough on you.
32:30
But we'd read about these, these cushions that they'd put down on
32:33
the court and then they'd paint over it.
32:36
We couldn't find any to try and I didn't want to do it without
32:39
trying it. And finally we found a place in
32:42
Chicago. We called the owner, he says,
32:45
yeah, come on over. And and my son-in-law and I got
32:48
up on a Sunday morning early in the morning, drove to Chicago,
32:53
played the owner and about in the his contractor played
32:57
pickleball with him for about 1/2 an hour.
32:59
And I said, we got to have this. It was so fantastic.
33:03
It's almost like as soon as you walked on it, you felt you felt
33:07
comfortable. It feels even better than a
33:09
typical. Oh yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, you
33:12
don't. It's not, it's doesn't change
33:14
the way the ball bounces or anything else, but it's better
33:17
on your body. And, and so people will say,
33:20
yeah, gosh, if I go play pickleball outside, I'm I'm sore
33:23
when I'm done. But if I play Toledo pickle, I
33:25
don't have that same, that same soreness.
33:27
So it's just a little bit of, I don't even know that it's a
33:33
cushion, But when if you walk off concrete, you step, I say
33:36
God feels pretty good. It's a big difference.
33:39
Mike, every successful business has a great team behind it.
33:43
What's your approach to attracting and retaining great
33:46
talent? Well, you know, I remember one
33:51
time my dad said and he, I thought my dad was a great
33:55
businessman. He said if you pay peanuts, you
33:56
get monkeys. He says pay people well.
33:59
And when we form Main St. Ventures, we made all the
34:04
managers, owners of the bottom line.
34:07
So if if you, every, every manager shared in the profits.
34:14
And so if they did well, they did well and so did we.
34:19
And so we had general managers making 125 to $200,000 a year.
34:27
And it was, it was a pleasure to write the bonus checks at the
34:29
end of the year. And I and everybody say, boy,
34:31
isn't that tough to get $40,000 or $50,000 somebody.
34:34
I said, I can't wait to write the check because they earned
34:38
it. And that means this company did
34:40
really well. And, and so I think that was
34:42
part of it. We didn't have much management
34:44
turnover. The other thing we, we, we set
34:47
up programs for retention. So there, there would be times
34:52
we'd have 15 to 20 people going to college on our dime.
34:56
So it was, we had a tuition reimbursement program for, for
34:59
kids who were students. And all they had to do was work
35:02
20 hours a week to, to, to comply.
35:05
And then if they got an A, they got 100% of the money.
35:08
If they got AB, they got 90%. If they got AC, they got 80%
35:12
below AC, they were on their own.
35:14
And so I, I wanted to do well. And but the the way it worked,
35:18
you applied for this before you start taking your class.
35:21
You got the class approved and then sixty days after you got
35:24
your grade, no later than 60 days after you got your grade,
35:27
you'd get reimbursed. And that kept people around.
35:30
That was a good program for us. I don't think I've heard of that
35:33
in the restaurant space before. That's incredible.
35:36
And now I think the other thing that we were really known for
35:39
was our training programs. And you know, you, you trained
35:44
for a week before you got on the dining room floor and then you
35:47
shadowed for a week. And it was, I think people,
35:50
because they had to work so hard to get the job, they really
35:54
appreciate it and they weren't going to lose it.
35:56
It was important to them that we, we made them, we, we made
36:00
them very knowledgeable. They knew what they were doing
36:02
by the time they got on the dining room floor.
36:05
This question might be a little premature.
36:08
You guys have just opened your doors, having lots of success
36:11
turning the dials. You're right trying to get
36:13
everything just, you know, aligned correctly.
36:16
But what's the future of Toledo Pickle like where do you want to
36:20
take this? What's what's some growth
36:22
opportunities for you down the? Road, I think, I think the, the
36:27
revenue source that we see in the events is going to continue
36:32
to grow it. It's becoming it's, it's
36:35
building on itself. It's kind of a snowball thing
36:38
where somebody says, boy, I had my kids birthday party down
36:40
there. It was fantastic.
36:42
And, and so I can see that piece of it becoming bigger.
36:46
I think we we can draw better and better entertainers down
36:51
there that are going to draw more people to it.
36:57
I'm, as I said, I'm working with a group, I'm part of a group
37:00
that's bringing professional soccer to Toledo.
37:04
And if I have my way, it's going to be about 300 yards from
37:09
Toledo Pickle and it will be on the river as well.
37:12
And then between, and this is all part of the Metroparks
37:15
walkway still. And then part of that will be
37:18
about 1000 apartments. And so people who live in
37:23
apartments don't cook at home. So Toledo Pickles the perfect
37:26
place for me to go have dinner. And so I, I see a lot, I see a
37:30
lot of opportunities again, with, with the growth, with the
37:33
development, with things that are going on in Toledo.
37:38
You know, we opened with about 100 members.
37:41
We're at 260 members now we're going to cap it at 300.
37:45
And you know, we're, we're developing leagues, we're going
37:49
to do interleague type stuff. We're in Arbor, there's a club
37:53
in Ann Arbor. We're going to do some back and
37:54
forth there. I've got some friends in Canada
37:57
that own a club and they said, hey, why don't we send a group
37:59
up there for a week. We'll have a group come down.
38:01
So some things like that. We'll have some interleague play
38:05
right now we do, you know, we have women's night, we have
38:09
men's night. We have different leagues.
38:12
We have mixed play. You know, there's just anything
38:17
we're doing tournaments. I got a big tournament in
38:19
September. This was interesting because
38:22
this little old couple came in. I said little old couple,
38:26
they're probably my age, but came in and they were talking to
38:30
me about pickleball and lovely people.
38:34
I, I instantly liked them and they wanted to do a, a
38:37
fundraiser for Alzheimer's and wanted to know if I would be
38:41
interested. I said I, I'm more than
38:43
interested. I'll help you do it.
38:45
And so I'm on the, I'm on their committee and that's going to be
38:47
in September and they're trying to raise $100,000 for
38:51
Alzheimer's and I think we'll raise 250,000.
38:55
And I, I think it's, it's a doable thing, but it's been,
38:59
it's going to be really well planned.
39:01
They're very, very good at what they're doing and they're both,
39:06
you know, active pickleball players and everything.
39:09
I've got a meeting with them tomorrow.
39:10
We meet once a month on that and we got a really solid committee.
39:14
And so we're we're looking for advertisers and we're looking
39:17
for players. And, and so it'll be a three day
39:21
event, a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and it'll be people from
39:25
all over coming in. You have the day.
39:27
Yeah, it's September. Let me look real quick.
39:32
And while you're looking, I'm also going to ask, why did you
39:36
raise your hand to get so involved?
39:40
I, I think it's a fantastic 'cause my, my wife's mother died
39:45
from Alzheimer's and it's the 18th, 19th and 20th of
39:50
September. And, you know, I, I think it's
39:56
one of the most insidious diseases there is.
39:59
And I've, I've seen what it does.
40:01
I saw how hard it was not just on her mother, but the whole
40:04
family. It's just devastating what
40:07
people go through. And, and so I, I, I just jumped
40:13
on it. I just thought it was great.
40:14
Any the other thing that that I found through the years, you
40:17
know when we used to open restaurants.
40:19
We'd have a a friends and family night.
40:21
That would be the big opening party.
40:23
Well, that didn't do us any good, you know, because we said,
40:25
oh, it's wonderful. Yeah, it was wonderful because
40:27
it was free. So then, then what?
40:29
We decided we're going to, we're going to open.
40:31
We're going to do a fundraiser for whatever Lord's University
40:36
or, or something. So what, what I did for our
40:40
restaurants was every manager picked 2 charitable causes and I
40:46
didn't really, I don't want to say I didn't care what they
40:48
were, but I, I had to sign off on them.
40:50
But it could be the American Cancer Society, American Heart
40:53
Association, it could be a, a local, whatever, a local
40:58
kindergarten I but you got behind us and we helped them
41:01
raise money for their, for their cause.
41:03
And it was, it was you could do good and do good.
41:09
So I, I did, I set up a thing called the Night of the Vine for
41:14
Saint Francis High School. And the president of the school
41:17
is a father I always call father, Father Olaszewski, I
41:21
think. But, and he and I had breakfast
41:25
and he said, you know, he's trying to get me to write a
41:27
check. And I said, I can write you a
41:29
check or I can help you raise some money.
41:33
And he says, what do you have in mind?
41:34
I said, I, we do a lot of wine dinners.
41:37
And he said, well, what about a wine auction?
41:39
I said, well, I've never done one of those, but I think we
41:42
could. So we've raised over $2,000,000
41:45
for them doing these wine auctions once a year.
41:47
We raised about 200,000 a year. And it's been, it's been great
41:51
and interesting. We sell tickets to it.
41:55
We cover our cost, but they're making a lot of money.
41:59
So it's, I said you can do good and do good and, and everybody
42:04
wins. And so we've really tried to
42:08
balance that. And I, I think, I think, I think
42:12
business should be a catalyst for good in the community, no
42:14
matter what. And, and restaurants, it's, it's
42:17
easy to do that with. It's easy.
42:19
People like to be part of it. So tell us about the work that
42:24
you're doing to bring professional soccer to Toledo.
42:27
Are we talking MLS level? Is this a different level?
42:30
And how are? You all USLUSL and so I'm I'm
42:36
right now we have a group of investors and there probably are
42:41
three or four of us that are really active.
42:44
We have a franchise agreement with the USL and the challenge
42:49
is they they say if you want this to work, you need to build
42:52
a stadium for this purpose. So that's what we're working on
42:57
now. And if we can get that done,
42:59
then we're we're home. I don't want to say home free.
43:02
We're across another big hurdle, So what do you think that?
43:06
Looks like. Is that like the city chipping
43:08
in some money? Is it private investors coughing
43:10
up some? I.
43:14
Don't. Want to go too deeply into it
43:16
because some of it's but but there, there is money out there
43:19
that's available for this. The city doesn't have any money
43:23
to do it with and the county doesn't really have any money to
43:26
do it with. So there are some state funds,
43:29
there's some private funds and there's there's some ways to get
43:31
it done and and to show return to wherever it came from.
43:36
Mike, what's a particularly big challenge, personal or
43:40
professional, that you've had to overcome in your life and how
43:43
did you get through that? Well, I've had my share.
43:48
I mean one of the one of the kind of a silly one was I was
43:52
afraid of flying. And so as our company grew, I
43:55
had to fly. So I went and got a pilot's
43:59
license and learned to fly and, and that's how I overcame my
44:03
fear of flying and so. You don't do anything if.
44:08
I can do this, anybody can do it.
44:10
So, so, you know, I just didn't see how they got that big thing
44:14
off the ground. And once I really understood the
44:17
aerodynamics and, and, you know, all the, all the, you know,
44:20
thrust and drag and all that kind of stuff, it, it made sense
44:23
to me. And, and that helped me.
44:26
I I'm still a little afraid of heights, but I overcame my fear
44:28
of lying and. So let me ask you this, when you
44:31
have to buy a watch, do you learn how to build 1 yourself?
44:36
Because you really went. In degree, not to that degree,
44:39
but now I've got over 2 million miles with deltas so I'm over
44:42
it. Yeah.
44:44
That was one, I think, I think the other one restaurant
44:47
business is, is hard on your home life.
44:49
I went through a divorce that was painful and that was that
44:53
was hard. And I, I can remember the day it
44:58
was final. I was on my way to visit my
44:59
parents. We were living in Williamsburg,
45:01
VA, at the time. And I got the house and my dad
45:05
and I were sitting out back and I told him it was done.
45:10
And he said all things pass. He says, I know, I know you're
45:14
hurting now, but it's, it's OK. It's going to be OK.
45:17
And he was right. And I didn't think I'd ever get
45:21
married again. And 15 years ago I met a
45:24
fantastic person and we're happily married ever since.
45:30
What is her name? Sandra.
45:32
How did you meet? Sandra I don't want to get it
45:34
too confusing because my first wife's name was Sandra.
45:37
So I got she was married to a a golfing buddy of mine who who
45:42
passed away and I catered the wake and she kept trying to pay
45:49
me and I wouldn't let her pay me.
45:50
And and one day we she said, would you, would you like to
45:55
play some tennis? She was into tennis.
45:57
I said, sure, I play tennis. And so we started playing tennis
46:00
and and we just, we just hit it off.
46:02
We have so much in common. We do everything together.
46:05
We play pickleball together. She's just, she's just a lot of
46:11
fun and and we enjoy our lives together.
46:15
So before you met your wife, your second wife, and you were
46:20
going through the pains of that divorce, what were some things
46:23
that helped to get you through those days?
46:27
Work, you know, I think it I, I really did I threw myself into
46:32
the work, but the, the, the problem was that's probably what
46:35
was the cause of it in the first place.
46:37
I, I, I worked, I didn't have a good work life balance.
46:41
And you know, it's, it's interesting because I was
46:45
involved, I was involved in everything.
46:47
I was involved in the Michigan Restaurant Association.
46:49
I was involved in the National Restaurant Association.
46:51
And some of those things you feel like you're doing good
46:56
things and you probably are, but they take time and, and you have
47:02
to figure out how to balance that.
47:04
And, and so I don't, I don't think I, I was good at that and
47:10
I'm better at it now. I like to stay busy, but I, I
47:13
have, I have good perspective. I've got 2 great kids.
47:17
They're not kids, they're adults.
47:19
I have 8 grandkids and I'm a much better grandparent than I
47:24
ever was a parent and I'm involved in, in their lives.
47:30
You know, they're good relationships with all the kids.
47:33
And my oldest granddaughter's an engineer.
47:35
She lives in Charleston, SC. Her birthday was Valentine's Day
47:40
kind of cheated her, but and then I have a granddaughter
47:44
who's in law school at Belmont and she's coming down next week.
47:50
So, you know, it's, it's, it's great.
47:52
You know, I stay involved with them.
47:55
The kids, the 2 are still in high school.
47:57
One graduates this year was a soccer player.
48:00
This, this was one, this is one of the most touching things that
48:03
ever happened in my life. She Ava is her name.
48:08
Ava is a fantastic soccer player.
48:10
She was all conference, all city, Allstate, all Midwest
48:15
region. And but I'd after every game,
48:18
I'd send her a text and I'd say, Ava, I really love the way you
48:21
did this or I love that I did. This was a great move.
48:23
And you know, she, she just was elegant on the field and she'd
48:28
look like she was barely moving and she'd be flying by everybody
48:31
on the field. She was just so quick and, and
48:33
so committed to being good. And but I and she's very shy and
48:39
very quiet. So I'd send her a little text
48:41
and she'd give me a little heart back or a thumbs up or thanks.
48:46
So I didn't know it was affecting her.
48:48
And then one day or senior night, the day before senior
48:54
night, and she didn't, her mother didn't even know she was
48:56
doing this. She did this.
48:58
I don't, I don't know what she did it on, on what program.
49:01
But whatever they do and the first thing says, so you can't
49:05
make it to the game tonight. That's OK, my grandpa will be
49:11
there. And you know, it's funny because
49:14
this is what it looked like. I don't know if you can see
49:16
this, but that's her in the middle and all of those things
49:20
around. Those are all the messages.
49:23
I saw that. And even now I get choked up and
49:25
I see it. I just didn't know it had that
49:28
kind of impact on her. And at the bottom it says
49:32
grandpa my #1 fan. So.
49:37
You got me teared up on that one.
49:39
That's really cool. You know, and I think it's a
49:42
great reminder for folks to, you know, put out those those kind
49:46
words, those words of encouragement, that support for
49:49
folks, you know, even if you don't get, you know, this
49:53
glowing response back, it's having an effect on people.
49:57
You know you're touching their hearts in ways that you know has
50:00
a a lasting effect. You know, I, it's, it's, it's
50:05
interesting, even even at our age, when I play pickleball, I,
50:09
I, you always play double S, at least down here.
50:11
You do, you know, I'm one of the older guys that play in, but I
50:17
am always supportive of my partner, no matter how good they
50:20
are or what. And so everybody wants to play
50:23
with me, not because I'm so great, but just because I don't
50:25
get mad. If you miss a shot, that's OK,
50:28
you're going to get the next one.
50:30
Yeah, I love it. What do you think is your
50:32
superpower, Mike? I think my wife might be.
50:43
Yeah, I think, I think she's changed my life.
50:47
She really has. How so?
50:49
Yeah. You know, I, I think, I think
50:57
some it's, it's, it was a situation where all of a sudden
51:01
I just felt like someone had their arms around me all the
51:04
time. Someone really cared.
51:07
And I think it's been very special.
51:14
So I feel, I feel very, very loved and blessed.
51:17
Yeah. I love that.
51:21
What's your favorite thing to do outside of work?
51:24
And don't say pickleball. Well, that's one of them.
51:28
You know, I work out every day. I like to go to the gym.
51:31
I'm kind of a gym rat and I like to play golf.
51:37
Used to play a lot of tennis, but I got a bad hip getting a
51:40
hip replacement in April. And so I'm going to be out of
51:43
pickleball for, you know, I say 3 weeks, the doctor says 3
51:48
months. So we'll see.
51:49
We'll see. But yeah, I, I, I stayed busy.
51:55
I'm on lots of boards. I'm currently the, the chairman
52:00
of the Toledo Community Foundation.
52:03
I'm on one of Pro Medica's boards.
52:05
I'm on their investment committee.
52:07
I've been on the boards at board Lawrence University for years.
52:12
So I, I have a lot of things I'm on down here.
52:15
I, I live in a golf community. So I'm on their, I'm on their
52:19
House committee, which is those are all thankless jobs, you
52:25
know, but somebody's got to do them and if and, and everybody
52:28
has to take their turn, you know, so.
52:31
Good man. Mike, Hey, I've just got one
52:32
more question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to
52:35
do 3 quick things for the audience.
52:37
First of all, you got to check out Toledo Pickle.
52:40
Go to toledopickle.com. toledopickle.com.
52:44
Do I need to say it again? toledopickle.com.
52:46
It'll be in the show notes, but it's such an easy website to
52:49
remember. toledopickle.com. Also, if you're enjoying the
52:52
podcast, please take a moment to subscribe wherever you're
52:55
listening. It sends a signal that helps
52:57
others discover our show. So thank you for taking a quick
53:01
moment to do that right now. And as a reminder, you can get
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53:20
So last question for you, Mike. A year from now, what is 1 very
53:23
specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?
53:29
My mother My mother's 100th birthday.
53:32
Your mother is still with us. She, we celebrated her 99th
53:36
birthday, February 8th, and she's still living
53:40
independently. And I, I would, you know, I
53:45
keep, I keep kidding her because she gets a little smaller each
53:47
year. I said, you're never going to
53:48
die. You're just going to disappear.
53:50
And, and, but she's got a great sense of humor.
53:54
She's got her wits about her. She gets upset if she forgets
53:58
something, but I forget lots of stuff.
54:00
I keep telling her that and she'd still be driving if I
54:04
didn't take her car keys away from her.
54:06
And she's the mother of eight. I'm the oldest of eight kids and
54:11
all league. Well, my sister passed away last
54:13
year, but the seven kids were all there for the birthday
54:16
party. There were about 50 of us there
54:18
and she's a special lady. What is her name?
54:23
Rita. Happy birthday, Rita.
54:25
I love it. Well, Mike Gibbons from Toledo
54:28
Pickle Company, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing
54:30
both your time and your story with us today.
54:33
I really appreciate you being here.
54:36
It's been my pleasure, Anthony. Thanks.
54:37
Good talking to you. Folks, that's a wrap on another
54:40
episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
54:43
Thanks for learning with us. And if one thing stood out, put
54:47
that into action today.