Latest / The Investor With Joel Palathinkal / Alison DeNardo: Mac Venture Capital

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Alison DeNardo: Mac Venture Capital · The Investor With Joel Palathinkal

• 0:00
  Sure.
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  I'm gonna say this out loud, and some people might think that I'm the worst, but I
• 0:07
  genuinely, this is how I feel.
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  I've never been worried about not getting into a deal.
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  Like That's great.
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  I've I've never had that concern, and I can tell you why.
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  So
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  Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I, Joel Palofinkle, your host, dives deep into the
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  minds of the world's most influential institutional investors.
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  In each episode, we sit down with an investor to hear about their journeys and how global
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  markets are driving capital allocation.
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  So join us on this journey as we explore these insights.
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  have a new BFF.
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  Her name is Alison DeNardo.
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  Her and I participated.
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  I even know how much I can talk about this.
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  I didn't sign an NDA or anything, but you and I participated in a pretty fun hackathon.
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  There was a couple celebrities and, you know, athletes involved and, you know, the result was
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  taking a problem and building a business and, you know, behind the scenes, a lot of memes and
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  aggressive text messages were involved.
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  So those are some things that you and I shared together.
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  But one thing that I really want to talk about is your journey into venture capital.
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  You know, a lot of people are really trying to break into venture capital that have not.
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  And people like you and myself and many of our friends have had their own quirky journeys.
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  And getting to know you just like me, you've pivoted in your career.
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  So welcome to the show, Alison DeNardo.
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  It's just been really exciting to build this friendship with you and I wanna just introduce
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  you.
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  You're the partner at Mac Venture Capital, based primarily on the West Coast.
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  And then you've, you know, you've also co founded Alden, which is a change management
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  platform for startups.
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  And then I think you've also been at Justin TV when they were on the ground, right?
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  I can kind of take you through that whole journey.
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  Absolutely.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, hope I didn't completely bash your bio.
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  Almost there.
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  It's okay.
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  Well, I'll let you fill in the blanks.
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  Welcome to the show and excited to maybe we can start with just your journey, where you grew up
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  and how you navigated to MacVenture.
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  Let's take that journey and then I'll guide the rest of the session with some questions.
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  Yeah, that sounds great.
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  Well, first of all, I'm glad that you consider me your new BFF because I was gonna be the one
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  to say that, so we're on the same page there.
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  Yeah.
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  So I can just start high level.
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  I grew up in a tiny town in Central New York, literally one square mile, two stoplights.
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  They just got a Dunkin' Donuts, which was a really big deal.
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  That's progress.
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  Just to yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  Just to give you a little bit of context on the footloose level town that we're dealing with.
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  So I grew up my parents were the only parents out of my grade that were educated, which
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  pretty is crazy.
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  And I decided very early on that I was going to graduate early from high school.
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  And no one ever had done that in my tiny school.
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  I had to protest the school board to be able to do so.
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  There were maybe some pitchforks involved, people trying to stop me, it was kind of a
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  whole thing.
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  But eventually was able to do it, graduated early, did a year at a state school, in New
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  York, SUNY Albany, and did not like it.
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  Just absolutely the college like typical college experience wasn't for me as far as
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  sitting in the lecture hall for three hours was something I could learn in fifteen minutes.
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  I just thought that was like really stupid, honestly, and a waste of my time because I
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  could learn differently.
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  And so I transferred to a program, an online program through Columbia, moved to Ithaca, New
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  York.
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  Was working four or five jobs from hotels, restaurants, bars, etcetera while I was doing
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  my school.
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  So making some money while I was doing my schooling was really great and getting all
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  sorts of experience.
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  And then I got an internship at a company called CenturyLink, if you're familiar with the
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  Seattle Seahawks, CenturyLink Stadium in Seattle.
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  Their traditional telecom, I was hired as an intern, which turned into me being the chief of
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  staff for the SVP of product when I was 19 at a Fortune 500 company, which was like total plot
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  twist.
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  And that just happened because I raised my hand at a meeting and he was there and he needed
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  someone to work on a project.
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  And basically my job was to be his resident millennial.
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  And so any project that they were thinking about rolling out or testing or whatever, he
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  would have me test it first.
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  And I basically tell him what ideas were super or not, which was really fun.
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  Mhmm.
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  And I was the one of two women in the top 100 people at a Fortune five hundred when I was 19,
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  which was absolutely insane.
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  Based in Monroe, Louisiana, just to throw that on top of there too.
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  Very traditional southern environment.
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  Southern I was there for about a year kind of for obvious reasons, Louisiana was not for me.
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  And I don't know if I told you this story about Justin and Snapchat, right?
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  I don't know if
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  I did.
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  I don't think you did.
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  No.
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  So let's kick that off.
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  Sure.
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  So post CenturyLink, or while I was still at CenturyLink, it was right when Snapchat stories
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  came out.
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  Yeah.
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  And the explore feature was not very good.
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  So I was looking at all these lists of people to follow on Snapchat and just ended up that
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  Justin Kahn was one of them.
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  So the you mentioned Justin TV.
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  The Justin of Justin TV turned into Twitch, sold to Amazon for a billion dollars casually a
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  few years ago.
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  Right?
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  He had just sold Twitch to Amazon and was running around San Francisco and was looking to
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  hire a chief of staff and he posted it on Snapchat.
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  And I had called him for a while, he posted stuff about entrepreneurship, starting
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  companies, etcetera, I thought it was interesting.
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  Then when he posted about this job, was like, oh, I can do that.
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  Like, I've never been in San Francisco.
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  I don't really know who this guy is, but like, he seems like fun and I could maybe do that.
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  So I don't remember applying to this day, I guess that I did and FaceTimed with him twice
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  for ten minutes and he said, I want you to work for me, you move to California next week?
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  Had never met him in person, had never been to San Francisco and didn't know anybody, I'm
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  like, sure.
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  So that's how I became Justin's student of staff.
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  Did everything from buying art to doing his book deal to helping manage his angel
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  portfolio, who's also a YC partner at the time.
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  So that's how I really just went for it in the VC and startup space and this was 2016.
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  And then in 2017, he was thinking about Atrium, which was his most recent company, which was
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  basically half law firm, half tech company.
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  I came on as the first employee of Atrium, built out internal operations, hired literally
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  100 people in the first year, which was absolutely insane, and then fell into the
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  venture world kind of accidentally with M Ventures, which was one of our previous funds.
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  Basically how that happened was Adrian and Mike.
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  Adrian Pente used to be the mayor of DC during the first Obama term, and Mike Palinck, was in
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  the talent in talent world in LA, worked at WME, kinda knows everything about everything.
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  They had come to the Atrium office to meet with Justin.
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  They were doing diligence, done some deal, Justin was like, oh, you should talk to Ally.
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  She has tested this product.
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  She knows the founder.
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  She can tell you more about it than I can.
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  And just to set the scene for you, like, mayor of DC, six foot something.
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  I've never seen him not in a suit.
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  Mike from LA, very LA, also kind of a taller taller guy and I'm five foot nothing in a
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  startup office wearing sneakers and jeans.
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  So there's like, just to set the scene.
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  So they're like, quick, your Uber's outside, tell us about this thing.
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  I'm like, okay, it's really stupid, it's never gonna be a business, you're gonna set your
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  money on fire.
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  And they stared at me for about thirty seconds, they're like who is this person and like why is
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  she saying this?
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  And it ended up that I was right and they offered me a job just about the same day.
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  So I started working for m Ventures in the 2018 while I was still at Atrium part time, bringing
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  in deals, working on deals, kind of the whole thing, and then came on full time as a partner
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  September 2018 with the close of our second fund.
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  And mVentures focused, early stage pre seed seed, average check was anywhere from 50 to
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  about 400 or so.
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  And we have about 90 companies under those two umbrellas ranging from wine in a can to AI for
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  interactive media.
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  Quite some range.
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  And then in 2019, we were thinking about our next fund and Marley Nichols and Troy Carter
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  out of LA and Cross Culture Ventures were doing the same thing.
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  So that's what Mac Venture Capital is now, is the convergence of those two teams.
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  We have five full time people split between, split hypothetically between LA and San
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  Francisco with a thesis of cultural change, social change, moving the world forward,
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  behavior change, etcetera.
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  And our check size ranges anywhere from 500 and 2,000,000 and a half.
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  So leading those early stage rounds, and we have 25 companies in our portfolio so far,
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  which is great.
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  And then, yeah, as you mentioned on the side, I run a company called Alden, which is my
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  namesake.
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  Basically, if you've ever seen the Zoho scandal, Olivia Pope for startups, corporate
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  fixing, basically really painful things that most people don't know how to deal with.
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  And basically I learned how to do that from Atrium, a massive scale, you learn how to
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  problem solve very quickly in PatternSpot.
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  And then I started a company recently as well called Two Pink Suits, is, I have one pink
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  suit, have another pink suit.
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  Her name is Heather, she's actually one of our portfolio founders.
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  And that is an advisory firm for women led companies in AI climate and operations heavy
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  businesses.
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  So pushing the world forward for women in those spaces.
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  Now I'm out of breath but hopefully that all makes sense.
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  No, that all makes sense.
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  I took a couple of notes.
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  I've been doing this new thing where I'm trying to structure these calls a little better.
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  So there's a couple of things that we can unpack just starting A
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  A lot going on.
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  Yeah, we can start wherever.
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  Look, I am probably the same or worse.
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  Have a lot going on and it'd probably be good if both of us cloned ourselves to maybe help
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  with the workload.
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  But I want to go back to your parents, right?
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  So, you grew up in this smaller town.
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  I have a similar background.
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  My parents did not do their master's or get really huge advanced degrees.
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  They wanted me to just kind of get some type of job and really do the same thing that my uncle
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  did.
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  My uncle was an engineer and got his master's I thought that was my path as well.
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  So, what was their take on education?
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  Did they give you a lot of pressure to go get an advanced degree?
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  Or did they really just let you just follow whatever you thought was good for you?
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  Because my parents, I come from an ethnic background.
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  So my parents are all about education.
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  But once I got my bachelor's, they're like, hey, just go settle down.
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  They didn't really care too much about me going getting a master's or an advanced degree or
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  even moving to New York.
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  They didn't really care about that that much.
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  But I was just curious like how your family was like with education or just kind of being a VC
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  and doing all these other cool things that you're doing?
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  That's a great question.
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  I think you can learn a lot about people from that question.
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  For me, so my parents, my mom always worked and my dad stayed home with us he always, he has
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  patents under his name, he has multiple companies and he just, he remote worked before
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  it was cool.
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  He can
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  And be there for my mom started her, she's a pharmacist, she started her own pharmacy when
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  she was 24.
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  And at that time you couldn't buy a house as a woman without your father co signing it.
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  Just like starting a business as a woman at that time was really challenging, but it was
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  just her and she did it and she was massively successful and sold her pharmacy when she, I
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  think she was 30 to what is now rated.
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  And it was just her and then eventually it was my dad.
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  So they were entrepreneurs from
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  Sure.
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  The time that they were out of college which was amazing.
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  So I grew up in this environment where that was encouraged.
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  Like I remember getting in trouble at school because I was trying to sell like bracelets and
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  really weren't supposed to sell things at school.
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  Like I always kind of had that mentality and it was encouraged from my parents.
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  I remember my dad like helping me with my price sheet and like all of that, which was really
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  awesome.
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  On the education standpoint, I think I was always encouraged to do big things.
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  Remember, and think both my parents were part of that, but I remember my dad handing me Life
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  or whatever Time magazine with Marissa Mayer on the front of it when I was young.
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  So like that was always setting that example to be able to want that and to like push myself to
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  do more and like basically get out of the shitty town that I was in.
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  Yeah.
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  And that was amazing.
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  And so they definitely encouraged me to graduate early and to do programs and do
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  internships as soon as I could, just to figure out what was right for me.
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  And then when I switched to my online program, they honestly supported that because and I
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  don't know if a lot of people believe me, but I think that if you had this experience, would.
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  I learned more about people and I'm better at my job because I was a bartender and because I
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  worked at a hotel because you learn how to read people, learn how to know what people want, you
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  learn how to like manipulate situations in like a positive way.
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  And I loved that.
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  Mhmm.
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  And so having a lot of money and making that money while I was doing my schooling rather
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  than taking, not being, not having student loans because I could pay it off with all my
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  jobs, so that was amazing.
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  And then when I moved to Louisiana, they were super supportive of that.
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  And when I moved to San Francisco to work for Justin, I was in my what it would have been,
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  like, my junior year of college, and I chose not to finish it because I'm like, I work for
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  Justin.
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  I work in San Francisco.
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  This is stupid.
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  I don't need to pay thousands of dollars to, like, have this degree that's totally
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  irrelevant.
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  So I actually never finished my school and I'm not mad about it.
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  Yeah.
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  Look.
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  I mean, there's a couple points to extract from that.
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  So number one, it's really great that your parents were the inspiration.
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  I mean, it's just awesome that your mom was a pharmacist and then on top of that, she started
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  a business.
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  So, my brother is a pharmacist.
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  He works at a big hospital.
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  Oh, nice.
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  But my parents were very fearful of entrepreneurship.
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  They're like, hey, that's the unstable way.
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  Would hear stories about people starting businesses and failing and all that.
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  So I didn't get it from my parents, but I think I got the inspiration just through a community
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  and friends.
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  And if you don't have that support system with your parents or your family, your immediate
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  family, I think you can build that same type of support from just the communities and go into
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  like minded events.
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  So I got that and then just reading books, some of the people that I would read about or just
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  read from, it's almost like you build a relationship with the author, right?
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  Because a lot of them talk about their journey.
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  So I really, really love that.
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  And I think a main point that you're hitting on, which is important to think about is the
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  future of education, you know, so, you know, I'm building a platform for venture and private
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  equity.
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  And yeah,
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  I believe what I'm doing is helping you just skip half of those steps and skip half of the
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  money that it costs to achieve the same goal.
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  I'm thinking, what was going on in your mind?
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  You're like, I'm already working at a pretty awesome company.
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  And there's people that are paying for college to hopefully get here.
• 15:47
  You already skipped like three of those steps and kept all that money in your pocket.
• 15:51
  And you know, it's funny when you mentioned the word chief of staff, I was checking out OnDeck
• 15:56
  and they chief have of staff fellowship.
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  So I thought that was just really interesting.
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  So right now there's the unbundling and then there's bundling, which innovates on
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  technology.
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  So I think you can do both and find innovation either way if you're doing either.
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  But that in mind, with both of us being people that have been able to find ways to skip steps
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  in the long and expensive process, Where do you think education is heading and what are you
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  excited about to help people just achieve their goals and find the career that they want?
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  Yeah, I think that's great.
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  And I actually didn't know about the ONDEC Chief of Staff Program, that's hilarious.
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  I think I mean, I'm of the same brain that you are of I think the days of or the, like, the
• 16:46
  traditional in venture specifically, and then I can go more broad if that makes sense.
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  I think the days of MBAs going into venture and probably white dudes named Brad and Chad are
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  over.
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  Like, I think that's totally irrelevant.
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  I think this is the or like the generation of what it is I would call like v three of venture
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  Mhmm.
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  Which it would be us, are more operator PCs.
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  People that have started companies, people that have a ground to stand on and can actually like
• 17:12
  help their portfolio founders rather than, oh, here's money, go make this more money and like,
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  I don't know how to help you build a sales channel.
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  I think it's totally irrelevant.
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  And so either operator VCs or people coming through your program with different
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  backgrounds, that's like so high level better or so much more high level just as far as
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  enriching the experience both for yourself and for your founders, I think that's amazing.
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  And if I was to hire like, I mean, we've hired people for the fund before.
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  I would not hire, I mean, that I wouldn't hire an MBA, I would rather have someone who had
• 17:51
  worked at a company, knows how to work really hard, or someone, my favorite people to hire in
• 17:57
  general are ex Deloitte consultants or ex McKinsey consultants because they know how to
• 18:04
  work harder than anyone else and they love working really hard and they love learning
• 18:08
  things.
• 18:09
  And you could put anything in front of them and they'll figure it out.
• 18:12
  Yeah.
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  And it's amazing.
• 18:14
  If I was to hire somebody tomorrow, that's probably what would I I would look for as far
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  as like an analyst or associate.
• 18:19
  What's like the best package that you've received from an applicant?
• 18:24
  Like, did somebody give you like a prototype or something that was just out of left field?
• 18:29
  I mean, the craziest I've gotten and it kind of made me laugh a little bit, but I didn't move
• 18:33
  forward.
• 18:34
  They built like this comic strip.
• 18:35
  It was like an animated comic strip of the story.
• 18:38
  And I thought it was really creative, but I just thought, man, this person probably is just
• 18:42
  not probably just too quirky for for the company.
• 18:46
  This is like an AI company.
• 18:47
  So, this is like a product manager.
• 18:50
  So, I was like, wow, you know, this I just thought it was really interesting the way that
• 18:53
  this person crafted the comic strip but recently, I've been impressed with people
• 18:58
  building instead of like a deck actually giving me like a notion page that has like air table
• 19:04
  widgets in it.
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  That's the most I've seen from like from like a Gen Z VC.
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  Yeah, I think I mean, this is all it's all about making yourself out.
• 19:15
  Right?
• 19:15
  Yeah.
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  So I can when I applied to work for Justin, I had I can find it and send it to you.
• 19:22
  It's probably hilarious now.
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  I had this, like, one sheeter with just a stick I had a bunch of big product when I was at
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  CenturyLink and we had, like, a not a demo day, but, like, a launch day.
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  And so there's a picture of me with, like, a trophy holding it up, and then so I had that in
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  the middle and then built out other true like fake trophies around me with different things
• 19:44
  that I've done or different places that I work.
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  So it was a visual representation of all the things that I've done.
• 19:49
  So was it like photoshopped or was it like animated?
• 19:51
  Was photoshopped.
• 19:53
  That's cool.
• 19:54
  Yeah.
• 19:55
  It's super cool.
• 19:55
  And I actually that was a prompt that Zappos does.
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  And I was like, oh, Zappos does this.
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  They're one of the best hiring companies ever.
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  Like, I could do this and send it to people and I'll stick out.
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  So that's what Zappos is looking for when they're trying to hire people.
• 20:09
  They want people to put together some type of visual visual I
• 20:13
  don't know if they still do that, but I was just doing research at the time of, like, what
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  are the best companies doing?
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  And that's what I wanna portray myself as.
• 20:19
  Yeah.
• 20:24
  I think summary I think the Notion pages are great because it helps me understand what the
• 20:29
  heck person honestly, you hear this statistic all the time and after seeing thousands of
• 20:33
  resumes at Atrium, a recruiter literally looks at your resume for less than six seconds.
• 20:37
  Yeah.
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  And like, I don't care about that.
• 20:39
  I want I'll see your LinkedIn.
• 20:41
  Like, I don't give a shit about your resume.
• 20:45
  I think I think there's a line though of like the video introductions.
• 20:50
  I'm not gonna watch that.
• 20:52
  Not gonna read your cover letter.
• 20:54
  But I think high level summary with visuals that I can obtain information in less than ten
• 21:01
  seconds are probably the would catch my attention more than anything.
• 21:04
  Yeah.
• 21:04
  Needs to be easily digestible and Yeah.
• 21:07
  You just get a stack of them.
• 21:10
  So when when it comes to Mac, you know, are you guys pretty agnostic?
• 21:14
  Because I think you got you talked about food tech a couple weeks ago.
• 21:18
  Right?
• 21:18
  So you guys look at cell based meats as well and plant based.
• 21:21
  So you guys are pretty diverse as far as anything that's transformational, believe,
• 21:26
  right?
• 21:26
  Sure, so in our previous, our Inventors portfolio, did everything, was totally
• 21:31
  agnostic.
• 21:32
  Invested in a few cell based companies, but most prominently NUGGS or Simulate, which if
• 21:38
  you've ever seen their Instagram is like 10 out of 10 marketing, cell based proteins made for
• 21:43
  chicken nuggets.
• 21:44
  It's amazing and delicious.
• 21:46
  And we have a couple others in that space as well.
• 21:49
  But with Mac, it's mostly agnostic, but with the overarching thesis of social change.
• 21:56
  And so just some of examples of some of our companies, We have a com we've there's, like,
• 22:03
  we did literally did four deals in, like, the last two weeks, so there's a lot in my brain
• 22:06
  right now.
• 22:07
  We have a company called Riff, which does after so the take a step back.
• 22:12
  So some of my partners are from the LA Hollywood world, and so we do a lot of, like,
• 22:17
  media infrastructure companies.
• 22:19
  Yeah.
• 22:19
  So Riff basically can take think about, like, friends from the nineties and could product
• 22:26
  place something into a friend scene from today.
• 22:28
  Mhmm.
• 22:30
  So, like, doing that aftermarket product placement has been really interesting.
• 22:34
  So that's something that we have done and are really excited about.
• 22:39
  We have even ranging to we have two or three aerospace companies, which I I'll send to you
• 22:44
  because I know you love that.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:47
  Ranging from, like, last mile Internet connectivity to satellites itself.
• 22:51
  Stokes Space, which is a YC company that just released fat round that we were lucky to invest
• 22:59
  in prior.
• 23:00
  That was awesome.
• 23:00
  And then most if if anyone's on like VC Twitter or tech Twitter, you probably saw like Pipe
• 23:06
  literally took over Twitter yesterday.
• 23:10
  We were lucky to invest in Pipe in 2019.
• 23:12
  Fat
• 23:12
  Wow.
• 23:12
  That was a good one.
• 23:14
  Yeah.
• 23:14
  So Harry Hurst was one of our previous portfolio founders in his last company, and
• 23:18
  then we invested super early in PIPE before they even launched, which is new type of net
• 23:23
  revenue generating source, which is really cool.
• 23:26
  So kind of all over the place, but with the things that are shaping the world in a
• 23:31
  different way.
• 23:32
  Sure.
• 23:32
  So I got two ones, right?
• 23:34
  So celebrity investors, what do you think of them?
• 23:39
  So some of them have been really successful and then some of them are kind of passively doing
• 23:44
  it part time, but you have a closer ear to the ground with this stuff.
• 23:48
  So talk to me about just the ecosystem with celebrities, trying to break into VC or doing
• 23:54
  VC, Any high level insights on that?
• 23:58
  Sure.
• 23:58
  So Allie Rappaport, who's a partner at Serena Ventures is one of my better friends and she is
• 24:04
  awesome.
• 24:04
  She's one of the smartest people on the planet.
• 24:06
  That's been great to watch her journey working with Serena one to one and building out a team
• 24:12
  and their investment portfolio is amazing and they're very active, which is great.
• 24:19
  And then it ranges from celebrities who are investing one to one angel checks directly.
• 24:25
  That's I think that's an interesting angle too.
• 24:28
  There is a firm called Plus Capital that, basically is a dual fund structure.
• 24:33
  So they have deep talent expertise and had worked with a lot of talent previously, and
• 24:39
  they have a fund that they'll invest directly, and then they have, somebody portfolios that
• 24:43
  they'll manage as well.
• 24:44
  So say, I'm, I don't even know.
• 24:48
  Say, I'm LeBron and they're a part of the Plus Capital family
• 24:53
  Mhmm.
• 24:53
  And I'm the investor.
• 24:54
  So I'll go find a startup that LeBron James might like and we'll negotiate great terms to
• 24:59
  get LeBron to invest as well and then they'll manage it.
• 25:02
  Sure.
• 25:03
  I think, like, as far as I know, that's how that functions.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:06
  So that's a little bit of a different model.
• 25:08
  And then for us, one of my partner, Charles King, who I believe is the coolest person on
• 25:13
  the planet, worked his way up through the mailroom at WME, which is one of the talent
• 25:18
  agencies in the world, was the first black senior partner ever and basically built black
• 25:22
  Hollywood for what it is.
• 25:23
  So Janelle Monae, Outkast, Tyler Perry, like names that you've heard, he built their careers
• 25:28
  from scratch, is amazing.
• 25:29
  And now he runs a company called Macro, which is an entertainment investing and production
• 25:33
  company.
• 25:34
  They just, I believe they won a Golden Globe and a couple other awards for Judas and the
• 25:39
  Black Messiah, who's one of their movies.
• 25:41
  And so when a lot of our companies, specifically in the media, or in any space,
• 25:46
  will come to us and say we want, for example, we were looking for women, celebrities who were
• 25:53
  willing to invest as well as be a spokesperson for the model.
• 25:56
  That's something that that's just like a service we can provide for those people because
• 25:59
  that's a world that we play in.
• 26:02
  And that's a lot of what we do is bringing those type of people to the table because we
• 26:07
  have that network, which is great.
• 26:08
  And then it's yeah.
• 26:10
  It's one of our well, it's a lot of fun for us because we have to bring people that we like
• 26:14
  into the room as well as it gets our company's product out into the world.
• 26:19
  Mhmm.
• 26:19
  And there's some celebrities and musicians and athletes that just have been really great
• 26:25
  venture capitalists.
• 26:25
  I mean, I think I posted in our private text message Nas.
• 26:28
  I mean, just that one deal that he did with Coinbase was just ridiculously successful.
• 26:35
  So do you see that evolution happening with other celebrities just wanting to be more
• 26:41
  educated and do it on their own versus hire an agency or hire some type of investment manager?
• 26:47
  Or do you think they prefer to be more passive?
• 26:50
  And then the other piece is, are you seeing many of them start to become emerging managers?
• 26:58
  I think it depends on what type of person.
• 27:00
  So I've seen kind of everything under the under the rainbow here.
• 27:05
  But I think most of the time, if it's a lot bigger celebrity and they have a talent agency,
• 27:11
  the talent agency has a venture arm that will bring deals to them, which is really helpful.
• 27:17
  Or, most in other situations, they'll build out their own team.
• 27:22
  So they'll hire someone like Serena with Ally.
• 27:24
  Like, she hired Ally to specifically build out her angel portfolio, specifically build out
• 27:29
  their investments with a certain thesis.
• 27:31
  And I think that's what I've seen more of recently.
• 27:33
  Sure.
• 27:34
  I mean, Ashton Kutcher was, like, one of the the bigger ones and probably induced promo for
• 27:38
  a lot of people because he's made some great investments as well in building out his
• 27:42
  practice.
• 27:44
  But I I I actually don't know what the most most common thing is, but from what I've seen,
• 27:49
  it's either having the agency Yeah.
• 27:52
  Venture team manage it and bring deals to the table and they'll choose to do that, building
• 27:57
  out their own practice with specific hires like Justin did that would be and add another
• 28:03
  counterpart Nick Coursetz who manages angel investments as well.
• 28:06
  Sure.
• 28:06
  Yeah.
• 28:07
  That's a good point.
• 28:07
  And it could also be, you know, outside of the agency, could also be their own single family
• 28:12
  office.
• 28:12
  I'm seeing that a So lot single family offices now, you know, they want to do direct deals,
• 28:17
  they're starting to build, you know, they don't want pay the carry and the management fees.
• 28:20
  They'll just hire somebody and build their own direct team.
• 28:23
  So I think that's, that's really exciting.
• 28:25
  You especially if you bring somebody in that super, super seasoned, that's really exciting.
• 28:30
  So Yeah.
• 28:31
  I I think that's that's I totally didn't think about that, but I think that's probably how
• 28:35
  it's structured with Serena Ventures or with other funds like that.
• 28:38
  It's structured as the family office and then making those direct investments, which I think
• 28:41
  is a great idea.
• 28:42
  Yeah.
• 28:42
  I got another one.
• 28:43
  So you were talking about just feeling lucky to get into a really hot deal.
• 28:48
  I feel that often and that's also just a really good signal for me.
• 28:52
  Right?
• 28:52
  So it's, you just know that you had to put in a lot of work to even just get into that deal.
• 28:58
  So you feel lucky that like that founder even squeezed you in.
• 29:01
  And a lot of times some of these deals, the check size that you're writing the minimum is,
• 29:06
  for me specifically, as a you know, pre seed to seed, sometimes series A fund, sometimes some
• 29:13
  of these deep tech companies, the minimum is really, really high.
• 29:16
  But I was able to somehow get in by adding value.
• 29:20
  So I don't know if you have any anecdotes or any stories on, you know, a company like Pipe
• 29:24
  or just a really, really hot deal that you're like, I'm just lucky that I got in.
• 29:29
  What were some of the special tricks that you did or just things that you did to add value
• 29:34
  and any advice you have on that to just get into some of the top tier deals?
• 29:38
  Sure.
• 29:41
  I'm gonna say this out loud and some people might think that I'm the worst, but I genuinely
• 29:47
  this is how I feel.
• 29:49
  I've never been worried about not getting into a deal.
• 29:53
  Extreme.
• 29:53
  I've I've never had that concern, and I can tell you why.
• 29:56
  So for me, coming from the, like, hiring space and coming from, like, working in bars and,
• 30:03
  like, I've I think one of my best skills is interpersonal relationships.
• 30:08
  And so from the first time I meet someone, I can learn everything about them in probably
• 30:13
  less than five minutes of, like, mother's name, where they're from, what they're worried about,
• 30:16
  like, maybe what they dream about at night, kind of the whole thing.
• 30:19
  Like I have no, no concerns about that.
• 30:22
  My partner Mike says I'm the best person to have at parties because I can make best friends
• 30:26
  with a stick, is great.
• 30:29
  So I think that's the level of care and the level of interaction that I bring to talking to
• 30:36
  founders.
• 30:37
  And so I think a lot of pitches are so transactional and I think that that's trash.
• 30:43
  Like, I think I I take at least the first five minutes to ask how are you?
• 30:48
  Or especially a lot of founders are back to back all day.
• 30:50
  Like, have you had lunch?
• 30:51
  Do you need a break?
• 30:52
  Do you have water?
• 30:52
  Like, whatever.
• 30:53
  And even asking that question of, like, are you okay?
• 30:57
  Do you need a water break?
• 30:58
  Indicates that you actually care about them, which
• 31:01
  Yeah.
• 31:01
  I don't think a lot of people do.
• 31:03
  I don't think a lot of VCs do.
• 31:04
  It's more transactional.
• 31:05
  It's like, quick.
• 31:05
  Tell us about this pitch.
• 31:06
  Like like, we gotta go.
• 31:07
  No.
• 31:07
  You you're building that relationship from the beginning and building that level of care from
• 31:11
  beginning.
• 31:13
  And actually seeing them a human rather than a vehicle to make money.
• 31:17
  I think that that's something that I see fundamentally different.
• 31:20
  And so I think the way that I can sum this up is my my personal mantra is I get to be
• 31:26
  everyone's number one fan for a living.
• 31:29
  And I try to embody that in everything that I do, whether it be hiring, whether it be
• 31:32
  supporting founders, even just interpersonal relationships.
• 31:37
  So that's what really helps me invest in the deals that I want to invest in is because I've
• 31:43
  built this relationship from the beginning regardless of whether you're gonna invest or
• 31:48
  not because you care about them as a human.
• 31:50
  When they start raising money, I want to be the first person that they come to because they
• 31:54
  know that I care about them and I can help them bring in other people too and kick in my own
• 31:59
  money if I choose to.
• 32:00
  I think that just caring about people is really more of a differentiator than anything else.
• 32:06
  And that's what I've seen from the other side of it too.
• 32:08
  When founders ask, like, how are you doing?
• 32:10
  Where are you today?
• 32:11
  Like, the that level of thinking really helps people stand out.
• 32:15
  And those are the people that I wanna do business with.
• 32:18
  Yeah.
• 32:18
  Yeah.
• 32:18
  And it's it's funny.
• 32:19
  There's a there's a quote that I heard from Chris Saka, like, multiple years ago, and he
• 32:24
  was just saying, hey.
• 32:25
  You know, I don't like to work with people that didn't have a a shitty job.
• 32:28
  And I don't think working in a bar is a bad job.
• 32:31
  I think it's like a dream job.
• 32:33
  But you know, it's not like a McKinsey, you know, 300 ks a year job.
• 32:37
  And look, my first job was in like fast food, you know, and I ran the register.
• 32:41
  But you know, when I was like 15 years old over the summer, I thought I was rich, making a
• 32:46
  couple $100 every weekend because I didn't really have to pay for anything.
• 32:51
  But I'll tell you, I took that job with pride.
• 32:54
  I really just enjoyed talking to people.
• 32:56
  And I really resonate with you because some of the biggest people skills and like just
• 33:03
  communication skills, being able to read somebody, those come from those college jobs.
• 33:10
  It's not I mean, you get it at McKinsey, I guess, but it's just at a different level and
• 33:14
  it's so buttoned up, right?
• 33:16
  You're just kinda working in a vacuum versus those jobs back in high school and college,
• 33:21
  you're really much more carefree.
• 33:23
  You're not as stressed out as you are being a real adult, having the real adult problems.
• 33:29
  You're just kinda looking forward to the weekend and spending your paycheck on partying.
• 33:34
  Sending your paycheck at the bar around the corner with this
• 33:37
  sticky bar.
• 33:37
  Or back into the bar, right?
• 33:38
  Just paying back
• 33:39
  Exactly. The
• 33:39
  The Yeah.
• 33:41
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  And I love that so much.
• 33:43
  And I think maybe that's why we get along so well because people have that.
• 33:47
  And I think that ties into like a lower sense of ego.
• 33:51
  Mhmm.
• 33:52
  I think a lot of people like you and I that have worked those jobs, you don't come into a
• 33:56
  room and you're like, I or the sense of entitlement, I think, is a little bit And it
• 34:01
  may or may not be tied to it, but I think having that low sense of ego and be like, I'm
• 34:05
  here, I'm doing this, it's taking up my space and not, like, inflicting yourself on other
• 34:11
  people is really important too, because that's what you see with, like, the generation of VC
• 34:16
  before us of, like, oh, I'm this we'll just go with the Brad example because this is kinda
• 34:22
  what I like to poke fun at of, like, Brad playing with daddy's money and I belonged in
• 34:26
  this deal because I am rich and I can do whatever I want.
• 34:29
  And then you're like, no.
• 34:30
  Like, can I can I swear?
• 34:32
  Is that okay?
• 34:33
  Yeah.
• 34:34
  Yeah.
• 34:34
  Yeah.
• 34:34
  Swear it.
• 34:34
  Yeah.
• 34:35
  Get it out.
• 34:35
  Brad, you're an asshole.
• 34:37
  Like, we don't want you here.
• 34:38
  And it's sort of like and that's becoming more and more apparent of Mhmm.
• 34:43
  The VCs that don't actually give a shit about people and that are just trying to make more
• 34:47
  money.
• 34:48
  And that's how people like you and I are getting into deals because we know how to talk
• 34:51
  to them, because we know how to, like, predict what they might need and because we know how to
• 34:56
  be there for them as people rather than being like, here's my money, like, go with
• 35:01
  Don't sort of judge me, but there was something that was like some sound bite on LinkedIn with
• 35:07
  Oprah.
• 35:08
  And Oprah mentioned Maya Angelou.
• 35:12
  I guess there's a quote from Maya Angelou that says, The measure of somebody's success is how
• 35:17
  many lives you touched.
• 35:20
  Think it also said something about, I think she had another quote that says, People really,
• 35:27
  they don't really remember as much about what you did, but it's really about how you feel.
• 35:32
  Yeah, how they make you feel.
• 35:34
  Yeah, and I really took that seriously because I always take that to heart, you know, when I'm
• 35:39
  trying to spend time with somebody, it's not really about, hey, know, I made these intros
• 35:43
  for you or, hey, I was able to raise some capital, but how did I make that person feel?
• 35:50
  And there's been times where it's been the other way around.
• 35:53
  There was, I'm not going to say this person's name, but this is another VC.
• 35:56
  But I was like, hey, I'm actually building something.
• 36:01
  Here's something that I'm working on.
• 36:03
  And the person was just like really, really condescending.
• 36:06
  And I just kind of sucked it in.
• 36:08
  I didn't really take the time to really go at him and really revert.
• 36:14
  I just kind of ghosted that person.
• 36:16
  But what's funny is I later saw that person get a review on like VC Guide.
• 36:22
  And the review was kind of like, this is a shitty person and this person was like
• 36:26
  condescending.
• 36:27
  So I just kind of left it at is.
• 36:29
  But how do you handle just shitty people?
• 36:32
  I mean, I think I just try to ghost them, but I don't know if you have any advice, you know,
• 36:36
  for other people.
• 36:37
  I mean, I don't think it's it's really worth your energy or time to, you know, seek revenge
• 36:43
  or anything.
• 36:44
  You just gotta feel like you're blessed because you have all these other good things in your
• 36:47
  life.
• 36:47
  But I guess maybe you can talk about what you think about how you you make people feel.
• 36:53
  I think you answered most of it, then also just dealing with difficult people.
• 36:56
  I'm so excited to answer this.
• 37:02
  Let me I'll talk about your example first, and then I'll go into that because this is gonna be
• 37:06
  a whole thing.
• 37:07
  This this person, he he was like, look, you know, you you don't know the first thing about
• 37:12
  VC and he he was just like, he went off on a ramp.
• 37:15
  I'm like, damn, like, what happened?
• 37:17
  Like, did you did you get into the fight with your girlfriend or something?
• 37:20
  Yeah.
• 37:20
  Like, where where is this coming from?
• 37:22
  Yeah.
• 37:23
  So I think that's the classic, like, Dale Carnegie thing, like, should never talk poorly
• 37:29
  about anyone.
• 37:30
  Yeah.
• 37:31
  And I think that, yeah, that person probably had something else going on and was projecting.
• 37:37
  Yeah.
• 37:37
  But also when you're looking at that person and he's a peer, like, how are the if he's talking
• 37:43
  to you that way, how does he talk to founders?
• 37:45
  Mhmm.
• 37:46
  That's problematic.
• 37:47
  And so that's so concerning to or how does he talk to people that he works with?
• 37:51
  And I think those are the kind of the questions.
• 37:53
  If was a founder Yeah.
• 37:55
  Like, why would I refer anyone to work for them if they're a dick?
• 37:59
  Like, I wouldn't.
• 38:00
  And the the ironic thing is I know some of his LPs now because of some of the stuff that I'm
• 38:05
  building.
• 38:05
  So but, you know, it's just I don't really take the energy to do that.
• 38:09
  I just feel that, you know, people will feel what they're on
• 38:12
  For their own, you sure.
• 38:14
  So I can, I'm happy to talk about this.
• 38:17
  So for me, being a woman in venture is a lesson in patience, I think.
• 38:24
  Sure.
• 38:26
  I, if you, if anyone follows me on Instagram, and I recommend the OOOD because I'm hilarious,
• 38:34
  I talk a lot about this because a lot of the times I'll anonymize the things that happen to
• 38:39
  me as a woman and just like talk about what I would do Mhmm.
• 38:44
  Because it's that action step that no one really talks about.
• 38:47
  So
• 38:47
  Yeah. I'm
• 38:47
  I'm starting to have some small posts that are anonymous.
• 38:51
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  So I have some posts that are anonymous and I recently worked with a couple girlfriends and
• 38:55
  I'm setting up this new account called Sexus in the City.
• 38:58
  I love it.
• 38:59
  Thank you.
• 39:00
  Coming soon this week.
• 39:01
  It's my weekend project.
• 39:03
  And I did kind of a test example on my Instagram story similar to the Wall Street
• 39:07
  Confessions of having people having women submit shitty things that people in their
• 39:13
  industry have said or done to
• 39:14
  them.
• 39:14
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  And then posting what I would do.
• 39:17
  So having that actionable step of what you should do afterwards rather than just like,
• 39:22
  this is a shitty thing that it's gonna make you feel bad when you read it.
• 39:24
  It can totally be a book.
• 39:26
  I don't know if you ever follow what's her name?
• 39:28
  Ten ten ways to look smart in meetings.
• 39:30
  What's her name?
• 39:31
  Sarah.
• 39:31
  There's a person named Sarah.
• 39:36
  Starts with the last name starts with a c.
• 39:38
  Let me pull it
• 39:39
  up Go while you're talking to
• 39:40
  ahead, I'm gonna find it.
• 39:41
  But yeah, keep going.
• 39:42
  So
• 39:43
  you're working That's on something that I think a lot about and being a woman in the VC space.
• 39:46
  I think that's, like especially or an attacker in any industry.
• 39:50
  Nobody ever talks about what to do Yeah.
• 39:52
  When something shitty happens to you.
• 39:53
  Sarah Cooper.
• 39:54
  Sarah Cooper.
• 39:55
  Yep.
• 39:55
  Thank you.
• 39:56
  Yeah.
• 39:56
  So she she used to work at Google, and she's just blowing up.
• 40:00
  She's all over TV now.
• 40:01
  But what she did is she wrote this post on how to look smart in meetings.
• 40:06
  And some of the things you can do is just interrupt somebody and tell them to move, go
• 40:11
  back to the previous slide Cause it makes it look like you're paying attention.
• 40:14
  You wanna hear it again.
• 40:15
  Yeah, but she turned it into this book.
• 40:17
  It was initially like a blog and then it turned into a book.
• 40:20
  But it was like all these things of how to So that's why I thought about that blog.
• 40:23
  Because I like, could totally be like a book, like an illustrated book that's like, here's
• 40:28
  what happened.
• 40:28
  And then like, this is this is like the solution of how you handled Yeah.
• 40:32
  I I think that's something I love that.
• 40:34
  And that's something that I'm working on actively myself.
• 40:36
  So you mentioned the word revenge, which I really like.
• 40:41
  So I think for me, it's so hard when just for an example, like, it's it's it's so hard not to
• 40:49
  react.
• 40:49
  Yeah.
• 40:50
  When somebody says something shitty to you or, like, assumes so this happened to me this week.
• 40:54
  I was we're doing diligence on some company and we were, doing a reference with somebody, who
• 41:00
  had previously invested in the company and had known them and whatever.
• 41:04
  And, and I'm the only woman at my firm, just for context, and I was supposed to be on this
• 41:09
  call, was gonna ask him questions about this company and, they set up the time, it worked
• 41:15
  for me, I chimed in whatever, and then he goes, Ali, can you send the calendar invite?
• 41:19
  And I'm like, first of all, I'm not an EA.
• 41:23
  Second of all, you shouldn't assume that because I'm the only woman on this thread,
• 41:27
  third of all, the time it took you to send the invite, you could already sent it.
• 41:34
  Yeah.
• 41:34
  And it it was just it's those small things that you're like, I want absolutely nothing to do
• 41:38
  with this person if that's if he makes assumptions about people.
• 41:41
  And there was some other language in there that was a little bit more condescending.
• 41:44
  But it's again, how did you feel?
• 41:47
  You know,
• 41:47
  it's like like
• 41:48
  you don't And you feel that and you're like, you know, you and I think it hits people like
• 41:53
  Yumi because we make sure that we don't ever we try consciously.
• 41:56
  Obviously, sometimes things get delivered wrong when we talk, but we would never try to try to
• 42:01
  make somebody feel that way but some people intentionally do.
• 42:04
  So it kinda for me that like that one email that that person sent me, I'm telling you like
• 42:08
  it stuck with me and maybe it's like pent up and this is my here to talk about but that's
• 42:13
  still like that is my memory of that person.
• 42:16
  Yeah.
• 42:16
  That's your memory and the emotion of that person.
• 42:18
  So my response to that was sorry, I'll just call him Brad just for fun.
• 42:25
  Sorry, Brad.
• 42:26
  I'm unable to make this meeting.
• 42:27
  I'm actively working on a few deals.
• 42:30
  I'll get the gist from my partners afterwards.
• 42:32
  Like, letting him know that I'm not the EA, which there's nothing wrong with being here.
• 42:37
  Letting him know that I'm not the EA and that I'm busy doing deals and that I I could not I
• 42:43
  opted out of the call because Mhmm.
• 42:45
  That's we treated people and, like, it was really hard.
• 42:49
  Yeah.
• 42:49
  And so I think just, like, I talk about this all the time of, like, one, making the other
• 42:55
  person identify their behavior and two, breaking it down and three, suggesting
• 43:01
  suggesting a better one is generally how I would deal with it as like a Yeah.
• 43:06
  Sequence.
• 43:06
  So in this case, addressing that a, that's not what's happening, b, this is actually who I am,
• 43:13
  and c, like, see you never.
• 43:15
  And so with, the vengeance piece, absolutely will let this fuel my hate fire forever.
• 43:22
  I mean, not forever, but, like, this type of thing.
• 43:27
  I think choosing not to react is really important.
• 43:29
  Like, I could have sent him an email about blah blah blah blah, like, whatever.
• 43:33
  But just opting out, choosing not.
• 43:35
  Sometimes there's a time and place where that's necessary, but Yeah.
• 43:40
  Just sending a thing, clearing that up, and, like, walking away is really important.
• 43:44
  And then with the vengeance piece, you can choose not to do like, venture is the most
• 43:50
  relationship driven
• 43:51
  It is.
• 43:52
  Business probably in the world.
• 43:53
  Mhmm.
• 43:54
  Yeah.
• 43:54
  Of, I only send deals to people that I like and that are good people and that I think could be
• 43:59
  helpful to this company and that I don't think is an asshole.
• 44:02
  And so anyone that's a shitty person is not gonna get deals and is not gonna get the good
• 44:07
  deals or is not gonna get sent the pipes of the world.
• 44:11
  And I can actively go against if somebody reaches out to me and say, hey, what do think
• 44:15
  about this investor?
• 44:16
  I'll be honest.
• 44:17
  And I've it's really hard to be honest and to have those conversations sometimes, but you've,
• 44:23
  it's better than the alternative of and like not mentioning that, then that looks bad on me
• 44:29
  if I let them work with someone who is misogynistic, for example.
• 44:33
  Sure.
• 44:34
  Yeah.
• 44:34
  I mean, it's funny.
• 44:35
  There's Chris Rock's stand up show, I think from like a couple years ago.
• 44:40
  He was talking about this.
• 44:41
  It's like, you shouldn't really be thinking about like, Oh, they're gonna get theirs.
• 44:46
  So this person may never get his.
• 44:48
  And I think he brought up like Donald Trump.
• 44:50
  He's like, Donald Trump, he's never getting his.
• 44:53
  I mean, he did get kicked out of the White House and get COVID and a couple other things
• 44:58
  in series that happened, and not to talk about politics.
• 45:01
  I'm trying not talk about politics or religion or anything, sometimes people never get theirs.
• 45:07
  So I don't think you should wish or even have any hate.
• 45:10
  I think it helps to just be happy with all the good blessings and friendships and
• 45:15
  relationships that you have.
• 45:16
  And best way to do it is ghost them.
• 45:17
  And I mean, I got this from a mentor of mine.
• 45:21
  When pitching deals to family offices, they don't do anything either.
• 45:26
  They just cut you off.
• 45:28
  And that's sometimes I feel like that's the best way to insult somebody just not even
• 45:33
  really bringing them into your ecosystem or even letting them know that you're taking
• 45:39
  energy to address it.
• 45:41
  I think that's really important.
• 45:43
  Think what you gave a really great example of, I don't remember what you said, but it was
• 45:49
  similar Of, like, think about I always think about myself as a bubble.
• 45:53
  Mhmm.
• 45:54
  And, like, if you say something to me, I can either choose to let it affect me or I can
• 45:58
  choose to, like, block it and be like, no.
• 46:00
  Not today.
• 46:01
  I'm not gonna let that bother me.
• 46:02
  Yeah.
• 46:03
  Because I have a thousand other things that I think about, and I'm not gonna choose to bring
• 46:06
  in that negativity into my sphere Yeah.
• 46:08
  And let it affect other people.
• 46:09
  Oh, this is what I was.
• 46:10
  I would like that guy who probably had a fight with someone and was projecting that on you.
• 46:15
  Like that just don't let that shit into your energy.
• 46:18
  And I'm slightly embarrassed.
• 46:20
  I feel kind of embarrassed for the audience here.
• 46:22
  I'm like, Hey guys, sorry, this is turned into a therapy venting session here.
• 46:26
  Know we're
• 46:27
  still talking about it.
• 46:29
  So relevant.
• 46:29
  Yeah, And I think it's relevant in in the interpersonal side of any business and venture
• 46:38
  as well as in the founder sphere as well.
• 46:42
  Yeah, I agree.
• 46:43
  Yeah, thanks, Antonio.
• 46:44
  I appreciate it.
• 46:45
  Yeah, and I think, so any more that you wanna share any kind of book pages that you got any
• 46:52
  other examples of like, hey, here's the problem and then how you can handle it.
• 46:57
  I think that'd be good for the audience too if you get any other ones off the top of your
• 47:01
  mind, fresh in the pipeline for your Instagram feed.
• 47:05
  Oh my god.
• 47:06
  I do.
• 47:08
  I'm just trying to think about what would be, like, a good one.
• 47:13
  There's a lot.
• 47:14
  There's so much shit that happens all the time.
• 47:17
  So this was in a previous job.
• 47:21
  This is it.
• 47:22
  This is heavy.
• 47:22
  This is heavy.
• 47:23
  But we're just gonna go there.
• 47:25
  This is in a previous job, but I'm not gonna say what or when or whatever.
• 47:29
  Mhmm.
• 47:29
  But we were looking for, someone we're looking to hire someone who is very specialized in what
• 47:36
  they do and found a great candidate.
• 47:38
  She was like one out of 10 people that can do this job and in the meeting when we were
• 47:44
  deciding whether to hire her or not, the person who she would have reported to that was the
• 47:48
  head of the organization said, well, she's perfectly qualified but what if she stays here
• 47:55
  for like a year and then she has a baby and leaves?
• 47:58
  Ouch.
• 48:00
  And like, I'm my blood is literally this was years ago and my blood is literally boiling now
• 48:05
  just thinking about it because there's so much in there.
• 48:10
  And I think I didn't I don't think I handled it as I should have at the time, and I don't think
• 48:14
  I had the strength of self to stand up to him.
• 48:15
  But I think what do we what happened and I mean, he should have gotten fired for saying
• 48:20
  that.
• 48:20
  Yeah.
• 48:20
  But he eventually did get his, but that's a whole separate thing.
• 48:23
  So I think we broke it down and just made it because he he's one of those people that, like,
• 48:29
  would not listen.
• 48:30
  He just was in his own world and, like, wouldn't listen to anything.
• 48:32
  Mhmm.
• 48:35
  We just said she's perfectly qualified.
• 48:38
  She's ready to take this job.
• 48:41
  She can do this better than anyone else and would be like, she's better than male
• 48:45
  candidates that we interviewed as well.
• 48:48
  And she's the best possible person for this job and, like, her reproductive choices are totally
• 48:53
  Yeah.
• 48:53
  It's not even I mean, she I doubt she talked about starting a family or anything like that
• 48:58
  anyways.
• 48:59
  It's literally just strictly just being judgmental because the person was a woman, I
• 49:03
  guess.
• 49:04
  Exactly.
• 49:04
  And, like, of child rearing age, which is just so fucking stupid.
• 49:07
  Yeah.
• 49:09
  And that so in that case, we identified the behavior of, hey.
• 49:14
  You just said this and you repeat it back.
• 49:17
  This is not okay because and suggesting a path forward or a behavior change.
• 49:22
  Mhmm.
• 49:23
  Which I think is the right and maybe not the right way, but it's a way to handle things.
• 49:27
  And I think just that identification of behavior
• 49:30
  Mhmm.
• 49:30
  Like, can be so impactful to people.
• 49:32
  Yeah.
• 49:33
  Whether they listen to you or not, and be like, hey.
• 49:35
  You just said this and it made me feel this way.
• 49:37
  And that's not okay because
• 49:40
  But it sucks because anytime you think it because, you know, that person might have made
• 49:43
  a mistake where, you know, look, I I'm one to be guilty of this just like the delivery is,
• 49:49
  like, really off.
• 49:50
  Like, sometimes I just say something that's awkward and it sounds stupid.
• 49:54
  And it's not because I'm a bad person and I'm trying to be disrespectful but sometimes the
• 49:58
  delivery comes out.
• 49:59
  So you gave them a chance to correct themselves.
• 50:02
  You're like, yeah, you're right.
• 50:03
  Like maybe his opportunity could be like, yeah, you're right.
• 50:05
  Sorry, that did sound kinda shitty.
• 50:07
  I take that back, you know, but there are people that just the ego takes over.
• 50:13
  Right?
• 50:13
  And they can't really take the chance that they had to backtrack it.
• 50:17
  Right?
• 50:18
  Yeah.
• 50:19
  So And I think a lot of the times that maybe not can leave that example where it is, but I
• 50:24
  think a lot of the times in those situations or for me, just transparently, I'm I'm 24.
• 50:31
  I have a partner at two venture firms.
• 50:33
  I run multiple companies.
• 50:34
  I've hired a 100 people, and I don't really promote my age because it freaks people out and
• 50:39
  then they treat me differently.
• 50:41
  And then they, like, get insecure.
• 50:44
  I make people really uncomfortable when they find out how old am.
• 50:46
  Sure.
• 50:47
  Because they get really insecure and then they try to target me with negativity because
• 50:51
  they're projecting, because they're scared, or they're like, oh, I haven't done that much in
• 50:55
  my life.
• 50:55
  She's done all these things.
• 50:56
  Like, yeah.
• 50:57
  Yeah.
• 50:57
  So it's like that people get really insecure when you're more success not maybe more
• 51:02
  successful, but, like, on a different path than they are.
• 51:04
  Mhmm.
• 51:05
  And that's a lot of the time when negativity comes out.
• 51:07
  I think that's maybe not a driver, but I think that's definitely a behavior of things that
• 51:11
  happen of if you're, or like with your example, maybe that guy was shitting on you because he
• 51:17
  has never built anything like that and he doesn't know how and he's scared and he like
• 51:22
  just attacked you rather than identifying or like figuring out his own behavior and building
• 51:27
  something for himself.
• 51:29
  Yeah.
• 51:29
  And I, you know, I have left corporate America because I dealt with that shit.
• 51:32
  And I was like, now it's cool because I have the freedom to build this community with good
• 51:37
  people.
• 51:38
  Right?
• 51:38
  And and have that bubble.
• 51:39
  So, you know, sometimes you don't you don't expect it.
• 51:41
  Right?
• 51:42
  I mean, you just kinda walk into this new opportunity and you get kind of a pulp because
• 51:46
  like, wait a minute, I thought most of these communities had filters already.
• 51:50
  And then you don't see the filters.
• 51:52
  And then what sucks is you kind of reflect on it like, did this person actually say this
• 51:55
  shit?
• 51:56
  Like, so it kind of throws you off for like a day.
• 51:59
  I mean, I'll tell you that threw me off for like a day.
• 52:01
  But sometimes I'll randomly think back on it and still it's like ingrained there.
• 52:05
  I'm like,
• 52:05
  It'll still bother you.
• 52:06
  Because it's because it's very, that's the one time this whole year, something like that
• 52:11
  happened.
• 52:11
  Other than that, I mean, the founders that I work with, I mean, we've truly built like
• 52:15
  friendships, and I don't even have that weird dynamic where I'm a VC because one day half of
• 52:21
  these founders are becoming VCs, many of them are emerging managers.
• 52:26
  In my program that's launching next week, many of them are ex operators and founders.
• 52:30
  So like you said, it's a small world.
• 52:33
  So these people come back full circle.
• 52:35
  You might be working for them at some point.
• 52:37
  You never know.
• 52:37
  And that's the thing too.
• 52:38
  So you
• 52:38
  don't know when you might need their help or you really ask them for a deal or something
• 52:42
  like that.
• 52:44
  You're a partner,
• 52:45
  and there could be somebody that's 50 years old that's looking for their next gig.
• 52:48
  It could be a partner role.
• 52:50
  And they might have to enter I mean, it's just I've been in those situations too where
• 52:53
  somebody I got one for you.
• 52:56
  So there is a So I'm not gonna say like the framework of where it happened because then it
• 53:04
  would be I never know, this person may be listening.
• 53:07
  There was a committee where I had to get approved for something and this person was a
• 53:14
  hater and didn't allow me to get approved.
• 53:18
  And
• 53:20
  so what I did is I just removed that person from my committee.
• 53:23
  I was able to because the lead person of the committee was the main person that I had to
• 53:29
  make happy.
• 53:30
  That person was a great guy.
• 53:31
  But this person really was trying to bring me down.
• 53:34
  So I just asked to restructure my committee and that guy was gone.
• 53:41
  And then I ended up getting approved and everything passed.
• 53:44
  Several years later, I was teaching this course and guess who randomly ended up being my
• 53:50
  student.
• 53:52
  And I had the ability to pass or fail.
• 53:55
  I mean, I was just nice about it.
• 53:56
  I'm like, you know what, it's cool, but it's just, it's kind of funny how things work out.
• 54:00
  You know, and and and that's why I say, mean, it could be easy.
• 54:04
  A very, very likely situation where these more seasoned people might have to work for you at
• 54:10
  some point because there's a great opportunity and they don't realize that and you'll see
• 54:14
  this.
• 54:14
  You will definitely see this if it hasn't worked already, but these people will probably
• 54:18
  work for you at some point.
• 54:20
  Yeah.
• 54:20
  And that's that's the best part.
• 54:22
  So my I'll just share this with you and I think you'll really like it.
• 54:26
  I don't I think I identify with the story that you just told.
• 54:28
  So I was taught from a very early age from my dad that you're the only one that's ever gonna
• 54:35
  be happy for you.
• 54:37
  Like Yeah.
• 54:37
  Full stop.
• 54:39
  And I think for me, I haven't been I hide the things that I do until they're, like, in a
• 54:45
  position that I'm ready to share Mhmm.
• 54:47
  Because I don't want the haters or I don't want people trying to attack me or I don't want
• 54:52
  people, like, getting in the weeds or whatever trying to stop me.
• 54:55
  And I think even when you're catching up with people, like, then the networking kind of calls
• 55:01
  that VC happens all the time.
• 55:03
  It's part of your job is to talk to other investors.
• 55:06
  I'll only share a high level of the things that I'm doing unless I trust them and truly I'm
• 55:10
  asking for what they think about it.
• 55:13
  Because I don't really wanna hear what they have to say unless I'm asking for feedback.
• 55:17
  Sure.
• 55:18
  Because no one's ever gonna be happy for you.
• 55:20
  And, like, they're only gonna look at internally and be insecure and probably shit on
• 55:24
  you, which is just such a crazy thing.
• 55:28
  But that's really helped me in my job and in my life.
• 55:31
  And I think something as well, there have been other, like, little tidbit that I had travel
• 55:37
  now, but I had an unopposed to note at my desk when I lived in San Francisco.
• 55:41
  Something that Justin said, he was right when I first started working for him, he was doing a
• 55:45
  panel somewhere and somebody asked him, oh, Justin, you've raised hundreds of thousands of
• 55:48
  dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars, very big difference.
• 55:50
  You've started all these companies.
• 55:53
  What's the attitude that you have when you walk into these investor meetings?
• 55:57
  And he said, and I I carry this with me personally and professionally, he said, you
• 56:00
  have to have the attitude of I'm gonna do this with or without you.
• 56:04
  And I think that ties perfectly into no one's ever gonna be happy for you but yourself
• 56:08
  because you have to have that determination to be able to do what you're doing and build what
• 56:14
  you wanna build and not let other people affect you.
• 56:17
  Whether it be, like, personally, like, you wanna go to the beach on Saturday and your wife
• 56:22
  doesn't wanna go Mhmm.
• 56:23
  But, like, you're still gonna go because it makes you happy.
• 56:27
  Or I'm gonna build this company even though, like, XYZ might think it's a bad idea and like
• 56:32
  I don't care or I think raising money is a great thing too.
• 56:34
  I'm gonna raise this fund and get on board or get out of the way is the attitude that I
• 56:40
  carry.
• 56:41
  Sure.
• 56:41
  Yeah, I mean, look, there's a guy, Jesse that came on to my show.
• 56:46
  He's at Alpha Partners and he really opened about this.
• 56:49
  I mean, he really wanted to be a VC.
• 56:51
  He knew that that's what he wanted to do.
• 56:53
  His dad was like, look, you can just work for my company.
• 56:56
  I have a stable job for you.
• 56:58
  And Jesse was like, no, give me three more months.
• 57:01
  And then three more months turned into a year, but he finally got the job because there's no
• 57:06
  point doing it and just doing this journey if you're not doing what really counts.
• 57:11
  And I think I resonate with that.
• 57:13
  Think Will Smith has been doing a lot of motivational stuff on Instagram but I think one
• 57:18
  of the things he talked about, especially with his wife is, he's not trying to make his wife
• 57:23
  happy.
• 57:23
  His wife isn't trying to make him happy.
• 57:25
  They're trying to be two people walking on a journey and they're trying to do their own
• 57:29
  journey of happiness, whatever that is.
• 57:31
  And that other person chooses to be on that journey with you.
• 57:35
  So I think you're right on the money there.
• 57:37
  Mean, I think, look, if you're gonna do something, just do it.
• 57:40
  There's a lot of limitations and challenges, but if you wanna raise your first time fund,
• 57:45
  find a way to do it.
• 57:46
  There's people that have spent a little of their own personal capital and they've just
• 57:51
  broken through walls to make it happen.
• 57:53
  Yeah.
• 57:54
  There's a lot of people out there that like yourself that are willing to root for you and
• 57:58
  that have done that before and happy to like reach back and pull you up.
• 58:01
  Yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 58:03
  And then I think another point is I think Jeff Bezos says his best.
• 58:07
  It's, don't tell people what you're gonna do, do it first and then like shock people.
• 58:12
  So I
• 58:13
  thought that was a really good mantra.
• 58:15
  So maybe we should talk a little bit about venture outside of the relationship.
• 58:21
  So maybe with founders, what is like that special formula?
• 58:27
  I mean, because you've been a founder as well.
• 58:29
  You're still a founder and entrepreneur.
• 58:31
  So what are some of the characteristics that you see as a common pattern for success as a
• 58:37
  founder?
• 58:37
  Sure.
• 58:38
  So for me, I think, I mean, a lot the things that we've talked about are applicable venture
• 58:42
  and in founding companies.
• 58:43
  And I think for me, I rely heavily on the psychology of people.
• 58:48
  So I'm gonna refer back to some of our previous conversations.
• 58:51
  So I think with founders, I really like working with founders that are low ego, that are
• 58:58
  willing tend to do all the things that we talked about that
• 59:01
  are Yeah.
• 59:01
  Have a spot on the wall in mind and they're just running towards it of, like, third, I'm
• 59:06
  gonna do this with or without you.
• 59:07
  Get on board.
• 59:08
  Get out of the way.
• 59:10
  And, like, that I can help them, like, kinda refine that too of sometimes when you're
• 59:15
  raising money for the first time, it's so hard and, like, you get so many no's and then you
• 59:18
  finally get a yes, but it's actually about which yeses you choose that are so important
• 59:23
  and kinda figuring out that journey.
• 59:24
  So low ego, with or without you attitude.
• 59:28
  Yeah.
• 59:29
  I really like people that have a personal tie to the business.
• 59:34
  Mhmm.
• 59:35
  So built like, building companies out of problems that they've had or they had a parent
• 59:40
  that was sick with one certain type of thing and they built a health tech company around it.
• 59:45
  Like, those are the types of companies that I really care about because they're bought in.
• 59:50
  Like, this is their life mission.
• 59:51
  They've seen it.
• 59:52
  That's caused them pain.
• 59:54
  They wanna fix it for other people rather than starting a company that you know is not that
• 1:00:00
  there's anything around it, but starting a company that, like, makes engineers 1% more
• 1:00:04
  productive that's gonna sell to someone to, like, two years that, like, no one really cares
• 1:00:08
  about.
• 1:00:09
  Like, cool.
• 1:00:09
  Someone will fund it.
• 1:00:10
  That's not gonna be me.
• 1:00:12
  And then I think, honestly, one of so I invested in this company recently who was
• 1:00:19
  founded, for one of the original Robin Hood founders, Nick Benz, Everywhere.
• 1:00:24
  So it's a sustainable sustainable textile company, and they figured out how to, when
• 1:00:30
  you're recycling material, entry me, introduce a certain component to make that material more
• 1:00:37
  biodegradable, which is crazy.
• 1:00:39
  So if you think about all the recycled fabrics out there now, that's still massively polluting
• 1:00:43
  the world with microplastics.
• 1:00:45
  And I could talk about this forever because I learned a lot about this to look at this deal.
• 1:00:50
  But I it's called Everywhere.
• 1:00:52
  And you can buy their shirts and they're working with companies, like big companies to
• 1:00:55
  be able to produce goods for them as well.
• 1:00:58
  But when we first started talking, they were introduced from a good friend, not like an
• 1:01:03
  industry character.
• 1:01:03
  Were introduced from a friend.
• 1:01:05
  And then when I first started to talk to them, I talked to them for, like, two hours about the
• 1:01:09
  company and then about other things and about, like, life and about Burning Man, kinda all
• 1:01:13
  over the place.
• 1:01:14
  Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  And, like, really built that connection.
• 1:01:16
  And I when I asked them, what are you looking for in your investors?
• 1:01:20
  One of the their three co founders, one of them said, well, we want people who are gonna be
• 1:01:24
  drinking with us when we all hit big.
• 1:01:26
  And I'm like, I'm here.
• 1:01:29
  I'll bring the champagne.
• 1:01:30
  Like, let's go.
• 1:01:32
  And then there's, like, it's a sentiment of, yes, partying together, but also being there
• 1:01:37
  through the whole journey and being that positive light to be able to get to the end.
• 1:01:43
  And that's something that I really love too.
• 1:01:44
  Yeah, you're gonna be drinking too, I would say, this goes back to just everything that you
• 1:01:49
  said, just being so directly important with venture, it's being there with the tough times
• 1:01:55
  and the bad times because you could be doing a drink with me one day because I'm venting about
• 1:02:01
  something that somebody mean said to me.
• 1:02:03
  But it's COVID and your business is about to go out of business, right?
• 1:02:08
  And you wanna have a drink to talk about it and figure out how you can work it through.
• 1:02:12
  So I think that's our responsibility too, would say to be there in the tough times as well.
• 1:02:18
  Yeah, I think that's so important.
• 1:02:19
  And I think that that type of relationship is really important to me of I wanna be the person
• 1:02:24
  you come to with good news, and I wanna be the person you come to when you have to lay people
• 1:02:29
  off and you don't know what to say.
• 1:02:31
  And I think the sec the latter piece is not something that happens very much if a lot of
• 1:02:35
  the times founders are scared because they have to say something bad to their investors, but we
• 1:02:39
  really wanna know.
• 1:02:40
  Like Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  I wanna know when things are going like, not going as well as they could because I can help
• 1:02:44
  you.
• 1:02:45
  Mhmm.
• 1:02:46
  And, like, I think that piece of being there and thick and thin is so important and the
• 1:02:49
  actual execution is something that us as VCs can be doing a lot better.
• 1:02:54
  Yeah.
• 1:02:54
  I think a huge thing too is self realization of your superpower.
• 1:02:58
  So, you have another business that focuses on fixing, right?
• 1:03:01
  So that's really a huge superpower for you.
• 1:03:05
  I think for me, I've done product as an operator for a long time.
• 1:03:08
  So I think just knowing what your superpower is and then really harnessing that, I think it'd
• 1:03:13
  probably help as well.
• 1:03:14
  I'm assuming.
• 1:03:15
  Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  And then let other people know like selling that.
• 1:03:17
  When I ever try to talk to founders, let them know that those are the things that I do and
• 1:03:21
  these are how I can help.
• 1:03:22
  Being very straightforward of this is what I'm best at and these are all the things that I can
• 1:03:26
  help you with.
• 1:03:27
  Like whatever it is, I'm available.
• 1:03:29
  And if I can't do it, I can refer somebody that is better at it than me.
• 1:03:32
  Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  And because venture is so opaque, right, there's no real formula to break into venture.
• 1:03:37
  You and I somehow, we're very fortunate to break in, but any advice for people?
• 1:03:43
  I think we talked about some really good things, right?
• 1:03:45
  I mean, just try to do things to be remembered.
• 1:03:49
  I think you really love people from a consulting background because they're really
• 1:03:52
  good at solving problems.
• 1:03:53
  But any other tips to maybe build relationships with potential prospects?
• 1:03:59
  Because as we know, half of the roles are not posted, Half of the jobs have been there for
• 1:04:04
  like six months, right?
• 1:04:06
  And somehow people miraculously get hired.
• 1:04:08
  So any other tips?
• 1:04:10
  It sounds like for you and me, was just organically but you know, any other
• 1:04:16
  recommendations for some of the people in the audience that either wanna break into venture
• 1:04:19
  or or, you know, try to build relationships or engage with VCs?
• 1:04:24
  Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Absolutely.
• 1:04:24
  So I would say, I would just, like, honestly slide into people's DMs.
• 1:04:31
  Like, 10 out of 10 slide into people's DMs.
• 1:04:34
  The worst thing they can do is not answer you.
• 1:04:35
  The best thing they can do is take a call with you and maybe hire you and or refer you to
• 1:04:40
  someone that's looking.
• 1:04:41
  And what I would say in that type of message is and that's what I I love when people do that.
• 1:04:48
  Like, or meet people wherever they are.
• 1:04:50
  Like, I'm big on Instagram.
• 1:04:51
  I'm not big on Twitter.
• 1:04:52
  So whenever, like I had a founder reach out to me.
• 1:04:55
  On the founder perspective, I had someone reach out to me on Instagram and she said, hi, I
• 1:05:00
  really love your content, like, it really aligns with my business.
• 1:05:02
  Would you be willing to take a call with me for, like, five minutes and kind of talk about
• 1:05:06
  this thing?
• 1:05:07
  And now she's, like, I'm interested in investing and she's, a friend and you never
• 1:05:12
  know what could happen.
• 1:05:14
  Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  And so what I would say is just keep the find it in the people's DMs.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah.
• 1:05:20
  And
• 1:05:20
  what you would say is, hi.
• 1:05:23
  My name is whatever.
• 1:05:25
  I'm working on building my skills in VC.
• 1:05:29
  I really give specific examples about something about them because people wanna have their ego
• 1:05:33
  stroked.
• 1:05:33
  Like, I really love your product experience.
• 1:05:36
  I love that you started off as an engineer and I had a similar backstory.
• 1:05:39
  Mhmm.
• 1:05:41
  Would love to talk to you sometime or just, like, happy to take in your content.
• 1:05:45
  And, like, that people love that and having their ego strokes and having that attention
• 1:05:51
  paid to them.
• 1:05:52
  Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  Especially with when you give specific examples because that shows that you care and that you
• 1:05:55
  did a little bit of research.
• 1:05:58
  That can be a great top of the funnel.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Do
• 1:06:01
  you think it's also good to Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  Oh, go ahead.
• 1:06:02
  Sorry.
• 1:06:03
  Don't
• 1:06:03
  wanna No.
• 1:06:03
  Was just
• 1:06:03
  gonna say and then I think too, asking people in your immediate circle for referrals Mhmm.
• 1:06:11
  Would be great.
• 1:06:13
  Or even in your in your larger circle of for me, like, I know I wanna learn more about,
• 1:06:19
  like, if I wanna learn more about, like, deep tech investments, I can ask Joel I mean, like,
• 1:06:24
  hey, Joel.
• 1:06:24
  I'm looking for people that are in deep tech that do you think who would be willing to talk
• 1:06:29
  to me for fifteen minutes to help me learn about this thing.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  Or with your like, this cohort, I with somebody like, you reach out to your friend who started
• 1:06:38
  a company, like, hey.
• 1:06:39
  Do you think any of your VCs that invested in your company would be willing to talk to me
• 1:06:42
  about their journey?
• 1:06:44
  Like, everyone and every VC loves talking about their journey.
• 1:06:46
  So Sure.
• 1:06:47
  Just asking for referrals very authentically, I think, can be a good source as well.
• 1:06:52
  Yeah.
• 1:06:53
  Another question I had was maybe acting like a VC.
• 1:06:56
  So actually sourcing deals, kind of already walking that walk.
• 1:07:01
  There's a Gen Z VC, two young kids that have already closed some capital and I'm going to be
• 1:07:08
  an LP.
• 1:07:09
  But one of their big focuses is community and content.
• 1:07:13
  I just think that's a unique edge that doesn't cost anything.
• 1:07:16
  It takes time.
• 1:07:17
  But if very helpful and valuable that can probably attract.
• 1:07:23
  I mean, think with your Instagram, you attract founders, right?
• 1:07:26
  And then you attract other co investors as well.
• 1:07:29
  So my question was like, do you think that's helpful to, you know or even if you don't have
• 1:07:33
  capital to source really high quality deals that are curated to to maybe a VC that may not
• 1:07:39
  even be hiring, but maybe you can, you know, shadow them or something
• 1:07:42
  like that. Yeah. I
• 1:07:42
  that.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah.
• 1:07:43
  I think I think I didn't mention that because I think it's implied in my brain.
• 1:07:48
  Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  I think that happens all the time with people that are looking to get roles in in VC will
• 1:07:53
  scout deals and refer them or, like, just slot like, cold email people.
• 1:07:57
  Be like, hey.
• 1:07:58
  I'm looking at this deal.
• 1:07:59
  This might be a fit for you.
• 1:08:00
  Yes or no?
• 1:08:01
  And then that gets you noticed, then you send more and more deals, and then you get to know
• 1:08:05
  what they like.
• 1:08:05
  And then the VC hiring process is very long tail.
• 1:08:11
  Forwarding for everybody, I'm sure you guys already know.
• 1:08:15
  And I think that can really help build a relationship too.
• 1:08:17
  And it shows that your ability to your ability to source deals as well, which is very
• 1:08:22
  important.
• 1:08:22
  And I think another assumed, you know, probably not even worth even mentioning, but just an
• 1:08:26
  assumed attribute is curating the right content the So right people, you don't wanna give the
• 1:08:33
  expression is you don't wanna give a steak to a vegan.
• 1:08:35
  You don't wanna give a deep tech deal to like a prop tech VC.
• 1:08:40
  So I think curating it effectively is a huge thing as well.
• 1:08:45
  Cool, we can, yeah, why don't we maybe we'll open.
• 1:08:48
  I know we got like twenty minutes left.
• 1:08:50
  You gave so many life nuggets and I think there were some really valuable ones from your
• 1:08:54
  parents as well.
• 1:08:56
  And you've had some amazing mentors.
• 1:08:58
  So I think any other big nuggets of life advice that you've received from a mentor that you'd
• 1:09:04
  like to share with the group here?
• 1:09:08
  I think I mentioned the two of you're the only one that's ever gonna be happy for you.
• 1:09:13
  Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  That's a good one.
• 1:09:14
  I'm gonna do this with or without you.
• 1:09:18
  Those are, like, my standout.
• 1:09:20
  Keep a note on your thing and, like, bring green that into your brain.
• 1:09:24
  Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  That that's been those two things have been so important in how I operate and how I handle my
• 1:09:30
  life and my business.
• 1:09:33
  I think something that I worked really hard on just in my own journey is being present where I
• 1:09:41
  am.
• 1:09:41
  And, like, I'm in the the whole mindfulness meditation circle too, and I'm, like, pretty
• 1:09:45
  crunchy.
• 1:09:45
  Literally live in, like, the mountains.
• 1:09:47
  So but I think for me and when you're in this type of environment, you're looking to get into
• 1:09:54
  venture, you're looking to start a company, you're so reactive and you're not thinking
• 1:09:58
  about where you are, what you're doing, and how you feel, which really impacts more than
• 1:10:03
  anything.
• 1:10:04
  If you take five minutes and go sit outside without your phone, without inputs, you think
• 1:10:07
  about you think things differently.
• 1:10:09
  That's why you have your best ideas in the shower because you're not distracted.
• 1:10:13
  And so for me, the phrase that I keep to that is be where you are Mhmm.
• 1:10:17
  And, like, take that time to be where you are, to be present with your people, or be present
• 1:10:22
  with yourself, to think about where you wanna be five years from now Mhmm.
• 1:10:26
  And be able to execute on that better rather than reacting reacting reacting and then maybe
• 1:10:29
  going in the wrong direction.
• 1:10:32
  Are those part of the frameworks of mindfulness?
• 1:10:36
  I mean, it's kind of a I practice transcendental meditation, which is a master
• 1:10:40
  based meditation.
• 1:10:41
  And I think that's core to that type of practice is to, like Sure.
• 1:10:45
  Cultivate that presence within yourself.
• 1:10:48
  And it's so it's so hard.
• 1:10:51
  Of, my my main thing is I was thinking about this this morning during my meditation, is,
• 1:10:56
  like, a lot of the or, like, with mantra based meditations, I can talk about this forever.
• 1:11:01
  Like, a lot of the times why you use a mantra is to be able to not you push out other things,
• 1:11:05
  and then you think about this one thing forever until you go to a space where everything's
• 1:11:09
  quiet, and then that's fucking great.
• 1:11:11
  Sure.
• 1:11:11
  So is that a so is a mantra is that a theme that you focus on when you meditate?
• 1:11:18
  It's more of so in transcendental meditation, you go through you have, like, a shaman.
• 1:11:23
  I don't know what the technical term is, but you have, like, a trainer who guides you
• 1:11:26
  through it and then they give it to you.
• 1:11:28
  Got it.
• 1:11:29
  So it's a sound or, like, a fake word or a syllable or something.
• 1:11:32
  Mhmm.
• 1:11:32
  And it's yours to keep.
• 1:11:33
  We don't tell anybody, but you with other meditations or there's this really great if you
• 1:11:40
  I don't know how what people are with this, but there was this, documentary on Netflix with Ram
• 1:11:46
  Dass who was, like, very into, like, the psychedelics movement.
• 1:11:49
  He's a guy that got kicked out of Harvard for the whole psychedelics thing Sure.
• 1:11:53
  And meditation in India in, like, the sixties.
• 1:11:55
  And he gave this mantra that it's I am loving consciousness.
• 1:12:01
  And if you just repeat that to yourself again and again and again with your eyes closed,
• 1:12:05
  like, sitting outside somewhere, you, like, find you in another dimension.
• 1:12:09
  It's crazy, and then you, like, remind yourself that, like, I am loving.
• 1:12:13
  I'm connected to all of these other people, and it's kind of a whole thing.
• 1:12:17
  But for me, the if you use, a gratitude journal or something Mhmm.
• 1:12:21
  Which I I would highly recommend, which is I really love that.
• 1:12:25
  It's just like be where you are or like today I'm going to be where I am.
• 1:12:29
  Sure.
• 1:12:30
  What's a good start for a beginner?
• 1:12:32
  So if somebody wanted to because it's something I wanted to do, but then the issue is like I
• 1:12:38
  forget about it.
• 1:12:38
  So what's a good way to be more disciplined about it?
• 1:12:41
  Where do you start?
• 1:12:41
  Is it an app or should you get a coach kinda like you've done to be more disciplined about
• 1:12:47
  depends.
• 1:12:47
  I mean, we should talk about this separately too because if you're interested, I'm happy to
• 1:12:51
  help you.
• 1:12:51
  Sure.
• 1:12:53
  I think it depends on what you want.
• 1:12:54
  So for me, the coach was the right way to go Mhmm.
• 1:12:59
  Because I had to do it.
• 1:13:00
  I had to show up to these lessons and you had to do the thing and then Yeah.
• 1:13:04
  Kinda all the apps support it and support your practice, which is great.
• 1:13:10
  Obviously, with meditation, like Headspace and Calm are great great places to start as well or
• 1:13:15
  even, like, Peloton Yeah.
• 1:13:17
  Has really great meditations if you use the app.
• 1:13:21
  And I think more than anything, you take an hour to, like, learn something and but it's
• 1:13:27
  building the habit that means more than anything.
• 1:13:29
  So I use this app that I'm I'm partial to.
• 1:13:33
  It's called Kin.
• 1:13:34
  That's, like, social habit tracking.
• 1:13:37
  Mhmm.
• 1:13:37
  So we have a meditation group that, like, I can add you to, and every day you check off your
• 1:13:42
  box, then that gets shared to the group.
• 1:13:44
  Like, Joel's meditated for ten days in a row.
• 1:13:46
  Mhmm.
• 1:13:47
  Da da da.
• 1:13:47
  You can talk about it.
• 1:13:48
  There's group that it's awesome.
• 1:13:49
  And then when you don't, be like Joel skipped his meditation.
• 1:13:52
  I can be like Joel, like, what the fuck?
• 1:13:54
  Like, why didn't you do this today?
• 1:13:57
  To kind of FOMO you into building those habits, which is really fun.
• 1:14:03
  And then I think the five minute journal is a real it's like kinda all over the place.
• 1:14:08
  The five minute journal is something that I've used for years.
• 1:14:11
  I use the app and it's just literally five minutes a day.
• 1:14:15
  You start in the morning with three things you're grateful for, three things you're gonna
• 1:14:19
  do to make today great, and then there's an I am statement.
• 1:14:23
  Just like I am where I am or I
• 1:14:25
  am Yeah.
• 1:14:25
  Going to be nice to myself today or something like that.
• 1:14:28
  Then I I can see that being a good way to set the tone for the day.
• 1:14:31
  I guess.
• 1:14:32
  Right?
• 1:14:32
  Yeah.
• 1:14:32
  Yeah.
• 1:14:33
  It's awesome.
• 1:14:33
  And then you do a prompt at the end of day of three great things that happened and then
• 1:14:38
  something else and you can add a picture.
• 1:14:40
  So you can scroll through, like, your life and see what happened every day and read those
• 1:14:44
  things and it's
• 1:14:45
  I really flashbacks kinda like Apple Photos does that sometimes where they'll take like a
• 1:14:51
  recap of like some
• 1:14:52
  Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  High level insights.
• 1:14:53
  Feel like not to be like a product nerd here, but there could be some really cool plays with
• 1:14:57
  like the data of like patterns of maybe common things that you did.
• 1:15:02
  I don't think they do that now.
• 1:15:04
  You I don't know if you can see, but you can like see my
• 1:15:09
  Oh, nice.
• 1:15:10
  That's, like, the that's the scroll of all the Yeah.
• 1:15:13
  The the couple weeks that you've been
• 1:15:15
  Yeah.
• 1:15:15
  Doing it over time.
• 1:15:17
  And sometimes it's, yesterday was, like I was, like, outside.
• 1:15:20
  Mhmm.
• 1:15:21
  Oh,
• 1:15:21
  nice.
• 1:15:21
  And I just took a picture or like And then
• 1:15:23
  you add some comments around it too to talk about how you
• 1:15:25
  feel.
• 1:15:25
  Yeah.
• 1:15:27
  Which is really fun.
• 1:15:28
  That's awesome.
• 1:15:29
  Well, hey.
• 1:15:29
  Know, I know we got ten minutes left.
• 1:15:31
  This is amazing.
• 1:15:32
  This is probably I I would say probably one of my favorite episodes because I think we just
• 1:15:36
  went really deep and we're able to open up.
• 1:15:40
  You know, I'd love to have anybody in the audience shout out some questions.
• 1:15:44
  You can also post it in the message here if you're shy.
• 1:15:48
  I have a question actually.
• 1:15:49
  Okay.
• 1:15:50
  All right.
• 1:15:51
  I'll be waiting for that.
• 1:15:52
  No, but thanks for the meditation tip.
• 1:15:54
  Actually, my roommate does it and I'm from Myanmar.
• 1:15:57
  We have like, Vipasana is like a very big meditation technique.
• 1:16:00
  Jack Dorsey does it.
• 1:16:01
  So I mean, I was kind of forced as a kid, like a Sunday school, you know, to do that.
• 1:16:05
  The mindfulness is very important.
• 1:16:07
  When I work at Goldman Sachs, also had weekly mindfulness session for all these people who
• 1:16:12
  were anxious to, you know, just like
• 1:16:15
  because everyone is so anxious.
• 1:16:17
  In the building, yeah.
• 1:16:18
  It's like mandatory mindfulness.
• 1:16:20
  My gosh.
• 1:16:22
  Well, it's like billions too, right?
• 1:16:24
  Because sorry to cut you off, Rob, but I was just thinking about, I don't know if you guys
• 1:16:27
  ever watch the show Billions, there's a woman there that she does like, I think she kind of
• 1:16:32
  like helps coach people on mindfulness, but it's also like performance coaching to kind of
• 1:16:36
  get your head in the zone.
• 1:16:37
  But I wouldn't be surprised if Goldman has those kind of performance coaches as well.
• 1:16:43
  But anyway, sorry, Rob, go ahead.
• 1:16:45
  No, no, no.
• 1:16:45
  I love Billion.
• 1:16:47
  So I know exactly who you're talking about Wendy and I love her too, but I'm a Bobby guy,
• 1:16:52
  you know, like not the check ropes guy.
• 1:16:54
  So anyway, that's Billions.
• 1:16:56
  If you guys haven't watched it, watch it.
• 1:16:57
  It's really good.
• 1:16:58
  I was gonna ask Alison about like, I see you were a co founder and then you were a founder
• 1:17:02
  for Truth Startups, before you become a founder itself.
• 1:17:05
  So I've been learning a lot from Joel about community building.
• 1:17:08
  And you know, I'm the type of person who didn't want to apply for a VC job.
• 1:17:11
  I had some mentors from Goldman and we started our own little stuff to kind of see where it
• 1:17:15
  goes with Marcus people, so FinTech, focusing on that.
• 1:17:19
  So I'm also doing some site on for fun.
• 1:17:21
  Right?
• 1:17:22
  So I was just wondering what's your experience like as a founder and co founder and, like, how
• 1:17:26
  did you kinda, like, find like, how do you transition from ideation to the product stage?
• 1:17:34
  So when I think the two things that you're talking about are have been service based
• 1:17:40
  businesses and not necessarily products, but I think I can still talk about that with, like,
• 1:17:45
  our product offerings.
• 1:17:46
  So with Two Pink Suits, is my, like, female advisory firm, that our ideation around that
• 1:17:55
  was, like, a thousand percent vengeance driven because kind of with the things that I had
• 1:18:00
  talked about before, like, being a woman in VC and being, like, a female founder, like,
• 1:18:04
  fucking sucks with the way it is.
• 1:18:06
  And, like, people just poor treatment, people saying shit all the time, we're sick of it.
• 1:18:11
  Like, we've seen all the numbers of, like, 2% of VC goes to women, and we're we were just,
• 1:18:16
  like so it was just trash.
• 1:18:19
  Like, honestly, was born out of 100% vengeance of, like, we're mad and we're gonna do
• 1:18:25
  something about it, and, like, very long tail vengeance driven technique to, like, make
• 1:18:31
  people get scared and be massively successful by doing something very differently.
• 1:18:36
  So the ideation phase was anger, and
• 1:18:39
  then we we broke
• 1:18:40
  that down into, like, okay.
• 1:18:42
  Great.
• 1:18:42
  What can we do about it to, like, actually make change?
• 1:18:46
  And that turned out to be we can provide, like, direct advice and investment to founders.
• 1:18:54
  The founders that we wish, like the founders that we were, that we wish we had more support
• 1:18:58
  on and things like that.
• 1:19:00
  And then that refined into our offering now of like we take advisor positions with companies
• 1:19:06
  within our vein that we can help.
• 1:19:08
  So we really broke that down, starting with the very large idea into how can we make money and
• 1:19:16
  how like, what do people want from us and what are they willing to pay for?
• 1:19:21
  And what works?
• 1:19:22
  We did a lot of testing too.
• 1:19:24
  We've thought about for almost six months of what can we offer to our community that they
• 1:19:30
  care about or that they want that they don't already have and where is that hole in the
• 1:19:34
  market and how can we fill it?
• 1:19:36
  So I think that was, I know that's a little bit different rather than like a physical product,
• 1:19:40
  but that's how we got to our service offering now of taking advisory or board seats with the
• 1:19:45
  companies that we wish we had helped and all of the things that you would do as an investor of
• 1:19:50
  come to us.
• 1:19:51
  We're bought into the business basically with advisor position to be able to help them with
• 1:19:56
  whatever they need.
• 1:19:59
  And then I think the other Alden, is the company, my corporate fixing company, that's
• 1:20:05
  basically, it's like me and an intern, which is really fun for now.
• 1:20:10
  My ideation there, my idea there was I'm a VC and I'm running these three processes all day
• 1:20:17
  and I miss working with founders, and I miss being the head of people, and I miss the
• 1:20:24
  operating skills.
• 1:20:25
  And I'm like, there are so many companies that I either we don't invest in or that need help
• 1:20:31
  or that I can make a huge difference in their trajectory by working with them for a month and
• 1:20:38
  helping them solve their problems so they don't have to go a year in the wrong direction.
• 1:20:43
  And that was just for me.
• 1:20:44
  I wanted to exercise that part of my brain, and I figured out I started with my boredom and
• 1:20:49
  broke it down into, like, okay, what am I good at?
• 1:20:51
  And, like, the third part was, like, how can I charge for it?
• 1:20:54
  And, like, how do I get those customers?
• 1:20:57
  And it was honestly just passionate, like, are the things that I really like to do in building
• 1:21:01
  building a business around it and, like, getting people to pay me for it.
• 1:21:06
  So no.
• 1:21:07
  I totally understand.
• 1:21:08
  So I actually was a scout for Launch With GS Fund, which focuses on like Black and Latinx
• 1:21:12
  and, you know, underserved communities.
• 1:21:14
  So I get where you're starting, like, you know, all this, like, underrepresented and all that.
• 1:21:19
  So that's why the one that we're building, me and my mentor, also is for like,
• 1:21:23
  underrepresented founders in fintech.
• 1:21:25
  Aside from that, when you mentioned about how to charge the customers, right?
• 1:21:29
  That's kind of like intriguing me.
• 1:21:30
  Lot of, I think there's like, of course, I want to be a VC, that's how I met Joel and, you
• 1:21:34
  know, he's been nice enough kind enough to like get me on board, and I learned a lot from him,
• 1:21:38
  now I'm like, kind of like, okay, let me try like, you know, things that I learned.
• 1:21:41
  He and I touched base with Joe about it.
• 1:21:43
  What I was kind of wondering is that I think to be a good VC or to be a good founder, you need
• 1:21:49
  to have like, it's either a spectrum, right?
• 1:21:51
  I learned a lot from that I could apply when you're building something, and I'm sure that
• 1:21:56
  when you're building something, you also know the tricks to get the funding, right?
• 1:21:58
  You have a checklist at VC.
• 1:22:00
  When you're working on figuring out how to charge the customer, how like, do you come up
• 1:22:07
  with it?
• 1:22:07
  I'm sure, like, you look at your competitors, there's a lot of way to charge, you have to
• 1:22:09
  differentiate it a little bit.
• 1:22:11
  So the revenue model building is one of the hardest thing for founders and the VCs who also
• 1:22:15
  assess that in order to determine whether they are viable investment or align with the thesis,
• 1:22:20
  even if it aligns, say, if it, if the revenue model is not right, but you still have to think
• 1:22:24
  ahead.
• 1:22:25
  Right?
• 1:22:25
  It could be corrected.
• 1:22:26
  It could be pivoted.
• 1:22:27
  So how do you figure that, like, how do you charge customer?
• 1:22:29
  I know, like, it could be a deep conversation, but just, like Sure.
• 1:22:32
  You look at some signals or, like, how do you think about it?
• 1:22:35
  Users, sellers, like, right, if you're in marketplace?
• 1:22:37
  Yeah.
• 1:22:38
  So basically for me and the, like, the corporate fixing side, how I figured that out
• 1:22:43
  was very roughly how I started with how consultants figure out their hourly rate, which
• 1:22:51
  there's like a formula you can look up, certain, like, three extra expenses minus
• 1:22:55
  whatever, and then, I broke that down into tiers.
• 1:23:01
  So I work with different stages of companies that have different budgets.
• 1:23:04
  So for example, if I was to work with a seed stage company that might have a smaller budget
• 1:23:08
  that may or may not afford, like, my hourly rate that I still wanna work with, I'd be
• 1:23:13
  willing to take, like, x, per hour or x retainer and part in equity.
• 1:23:19
  Then based on their current valuation, you figure out what that might be worth and then
• 1:23:24
  figuring that out and working with the company with where they are to come to terms,
• 1:23:29
  especially if it's a company that you really like.
• 1:23:31
  Then you get that sweet, sweet equity at a faster vesting than probably other people
• 1:23:38
  would.
• 1:23:39
  So that was kind of part of it of figuring out what are the different breakdowns of my
• 1:23:45
  customers.
• 1:23:46
  So seed, series A, B, and then figuring out what's ideal for me within the those areas, and
• 1:23:56
  what do I really want.
• 1:23:57
  So, like, ideal my my ideal situation with something like what I'm doing is a retainer.
• 1:24:03
  So whenever somebody can kind of like how you have your lawyer, whenever you have a question,
• 1:24:07
  you can ping them and they'll they bill against your retainer.
• 1:24:10
  Whenever a founder has a question or if they have a project that they want me to work on,
• 1:24:14
  I'm available, and I have, like five hours a week designated to them that I'm willing to
• 1:24:18
  help them with, that they don't use the five hours of their problem.
• 1:24:21
  But choosing to have that availability for them to be able to be available rather than, this
• 1:24:26
  was kind of the whole thing at Atrium was the legal billable hours disincentivizing people to
• 1:24:31
  come to you for help.
• 1:24:32
  And so having that, and I think consultants that's true too, or with something like this,
• 1:24:39
  they would be disincentivized to come to me with a question if I was billable because they
• 1:24:45
  would be afraid to ask me because I'm gonna charge them at the wazoo to answer this
• 1:24:48
  question rather than actually figuring out the solution together.
• 1:24:53
  So do you do you think that, like, in, like, social media, kind of like a nominal
• 1:24:57
  marketplace.
• 1:24:57
  Right?
• 1:24:58
  They pretend to be a marketplace, not necessarily a marketplace.
• 1:25:00
  Think about it, Facebook, for example, is one of the best examples.
• 1:25:03
  Shopify is like the reverse of that, right?
• 1:25:06
  So I think they're going like to like, I follow Ben Thompson, I'm sure like you heard about him
• 1:25:10
  too, you know, was, he did analysis about this whole like platform aggregator.
• 1:25:15
  And I was just wondering, in this day and age, like how Facebook did or like Yelp did, do you
• 1:25:20
  think that like zero feed model for like user and like users and then try to sync alternative
• 1:25:27
  revenue channel.
• 1:25:28
  Do you think that model is still a viable model in terms of, like, you know, the future of
• 1:25:32
  marketplace or, like, the social interactions?
• 1:25:38
  I don't do I I don't know if I'm the best person to ask that question.
• 1:25:41
  I don't do a lot of, like, social marketplaces.
• 1:25:43
  That's not really my domain.
• 1:25:45
  Mhmm.
• 1:25:46
  What I can give a good example of is a company called Public, which is actually stole a lot of
• 1:25:52
  users from Robinhood recently.
• 1:25:54
  So, basically, they Yeah.
• 1:25:55
  Heard about that.
• 1:25:55
  Yeah.
• 1:25:56
  They're stock exchange, and they're also a social media platform encouraging people to
• 1:26:00
  share why they invested in certain companies and commenting on it, like, I was reading the
• 1:26:05
  thread about Roblox today and, like, just crazy stuff.
• 1:26:09
  And I think I can give that example of Robinhood versus public of, like, public
• 1:26:15
  doesn't charge fees, but they'll do, like, a tipping system.
• 1:26:18
  So when I buy a stock, I can choose to tip a certain amount that goes to the company because
• 1:26:23
  they go, okay.
• 1:26:24
  This is great.
• 1:26:24
  Whatever.
• 1:26:25
  I get a portal.
• 1:26:26
  Right?
• 1:26:26
  I'm sure everybody has Adblock.
• 1:26:28
  And I actually talked with a product manager from Adblock through a friend.
• 1:26:32
  I was like, Oh, I didn't know that you guys have this big, you know, like I thought I never
• 1:26:35
  paid for Adblock.
• 1:26:36
  I used it for ten years.
• 1:26:37
  Yeah.
• 1:26:39
  But that's all I have.
• 1:26:40
  Don't want to give the time without the time.
• 1:26:41
  Allison, I realize that we're actually thirty minutes over, so I really apologize.
• 1:26:45
  No, that's okay.
• 1:26:46
  Didn't realize that we ran over.
• 1:26:47
  I was free.
• 1:26:48
  I do have a call in one minute, I can take a quick question if anyone has a question.
• 1:26:53
  I will just, to respect your time.
• 1:26:55
  I'll just rapid fire this final question, which is biggest challenges for you working and
• 1:27:00
  founding a VC firm.
• 1:27:02
  So if you wanna just do that rapid fire, we'll wrap up.
• 1:27:06
  I think the biggest challenge when I was going into it was being scared of, like, I could have
• 1:27:11
  started things much sooner because I was I was scared and I didn't know if I could do it right
• 1:27:15
  or if I was the right person to do it.
• 1:27:18
  The in the last three years, both building a VC and founding companies and building those, Time
• 1:27:27
  management is really has been a great challenge for me, but I think the lesson there is just
• 1:27:32
  figure I have a blog post on this I can share with you Mhmm.
• 1:27:35
  Of figuring out the time of day that's best for you to do certain things and, like, keep to
• 1:27:40
  that schedule religiously.
• 1:27:41
  Like, time block your time for every single task that you need to do.
• 1:27:45
  And b, I think, your own value too is really important of, like, you should figure out what
• 1:27:52
  your billable hours should be and, like, are you in that place now?
• 1:27:56
  And when someone wastes your time, how much money of your time are they wasting?
• 1:28:02
  And not doing work for free, I think, is is another thing of within that whole vein of,
• 1:28:06
  like, you shouldn't do work for free.
• 1:28:07
  Sure.
• 1:28:08
  Cool.
• 1:28:09
  All right.
• 1:28:09
  Well, I let you run to your meeting.
• 1:28:11
  Sorry for delaying you, but hey, this was so amazing.
• 1:28:14
  Thank you so much.
• 1:28:16
  This is one of the top episodes.
• 1:28:18
  So thank you.
• 1:28:19
  Yeah.
• 1:28:19
  No.
• 1:28:19
  Thanks so much for having me and thanks everyone for your questions.
• 1:28:21
  I love this too.
• 1:28:22
  And Joel, I'm glad that we're now best friends.
• 1:28:25
  We are.
• 1:28:25
  BFFs.
• 1:28:26
  Take care.
• 1:28:26
  BFFs.
• 1:28:27
  Have a good one.
• 1:28:28
  Yeah.