Latest / Authentic Living / Digital Transformation and the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Kamales Lardi

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Digital Transformation and the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Kamales Lardi · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Our interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:41
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
• 0:51
  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:55
  Thanks tuning in again to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 0:57
  Today, I have a colleague Kamala Salardi.
• 1:00
  Kamala and I, I think met almost a year ago, at the Forbes of Women's Executive Council of
• 1:05
  which she was the chair and, I have since taken on that role.
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  Camales brings a breadth and depth of, knowledge in as a strategic and bold thinker in
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  digital and business transformation.
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  She's been in, in this role for about, I believe, about 23 years.
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  And she's a teaching fellow at Durham and she's a keynote speaker and she's recently released
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  her new book.
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  At Carmales, thanks so much for being here with us today.
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  Thank you
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  for having me, Roxanne.
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  It's it's been a pleasure getting to know you as well.
• 1:41
  So let's talk a little bit about those 6 traits that so you really like you said, you go I I
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  there's two things that you said, Kamalas, which I love, you you know, inside out, which
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  is like, we have to we have to look and see, really, and you have to be really truthful.
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  I think going through this process about, you know, I mean, love the fact that I created this
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  product, but when when you kind of go through this analysis, you're realizing, It's taking
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  this much hours and the revenue stream is really, you know, you're always pumping air
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  into it, and it's not so good.
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  So you have to really be willing and and to be transparent with what is.
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  Another thing you talked a little bit about is leadership and what leaders need to do to
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  connect to the customer.
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  And I I wanna talk more about this.
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  I think that's very, very vital like you said, with with things like social media, you know, I
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  if I have a bad experience today and I put something on and I've got a big enough
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  following, I can quite quickly disrupt, something within a company, right?
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  So we have a lot of power as the consumer.
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  So let's in the book, you talked about those 6 traits because you said, you know, it's the
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  it's the vision.
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  Right?
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  Like, everybody has to buy into the vision, but the lee it starts with the CEO or the senior
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  team.
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  So tell me how you kind of work with them.
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  Let you know, you might have a CEO that that thinks, Lardiance associates, we we definitely
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  do wanna work with you, but, you know, with teams that have been working together for a
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  long time.
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  There's history.
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  There's disconnections.
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  There's people that have, some implicit power that we may or may not know about or there's
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  alliances, all that stuff.
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  So with with c with CEOs that you've worked well with, meaning that, let's say they're a
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  good CEO or somebody with that can transform, but they're working with a difficult kind of
• 3:27
  senior team, what is your approach with with, an environment like that?
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  So I I 1st of all, I think to preface that, leadership teams, you know, many companies, let
• 3:38
  me start with this.
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  Many companies do approach digital transformation with a technology team or a
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  transformation team.
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  And one of the biggest challenges with that is you can take the transformation to a certain
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  level to a project or initiative implementation level.
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  But in order to really benefit from digital transformation, you need to transform
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  organization wide.
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  And something that I personally experienced and had to learn was I had to 1st transform as a
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  leader in order to initiate transformation in organizations.
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  And this was something that what's, you know, with any transformation, with any journey that
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  we go on.
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  And I think you have this detail out in your book as well, which I found really refreshing
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  because we had a really nice alignment to the work that, you know, that I do on the ground
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  with the customers as well.
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  Really transforming means looking at yourself your leadership style, your approach in an
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  organization, the way you are, you know, how self aware you are, but also how you connect
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  with your team, how you motivate teams.
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  And this is something I had to learn by doing, right, going through that transformation
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  process myself.
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  And so today, I do a lot of digital mindset coaching for leadership teams and board
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  members.
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  And this means you know, oftentimes, I'll be very honest.
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  They are older men, who lead organizations.
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  And it is very interesting because we do tend to have very perspectives, we come from a
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  completely different mindset.
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  And one of the experiences I had during COVID was I was doing a coaching with a person from,
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  you know, who had 35, 40 years experience in leadership.
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  And He had never led an organization where people were not physically present.
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  And so he broke down in tears because this was extremely challenging, right, for someone who
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  had a secretary who did most of his digital interactions.
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  And now he would have to face this on his own and kind of lead people and lead teams.
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  It meant letting go of control.
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  It meant trusting people.
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  Beyond your physical space.
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  So these kinds of transformations, and, you know, what I did with him was we entered into
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  the the virtual reality space metaverse and we did our coaching sessions in there.
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  And he completely forgot that we were not physically together in the same room.
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  And so this was, I think, an eye opening moment because he realized, okay, technology has the
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  ability to extend our capabilities.
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  If we use it in in the right way, if we know how to use it, we can go beyond zoom.
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  We can go into a space where we feel like we're connected with another.
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  It's almost, you know, almost reality, I would say.
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  So one of the things I do with leadership teams, in the formal project environment is
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  really to look at stakeholder analysis.
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  And I can sell it from experience.
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  There's always one person in the room who doesn't buy who doesn't buy in.
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  I I hope that sometimes it's a couple.
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  At least at least one.
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  And it's usually either the head of of technology or, you know, the the head of HR or
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  something like this.
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  Somehow the trends are, you know, undeniable.
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  But a stakeholder analysis helps to understand, you know, who the people are in the room.
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  What kind of influence they have.
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  Who do I need to connect with to get buy in and to empower, to transform and I do work very
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  closely with leadership teams because even if you come in from the the roots, right, from the
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  ground up to transform the company, leadership teams drive the real transformation.
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  It is the top down that can implement organization wide change.
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  You need that top down mandate.
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  And a a big part of that means taking people on this journey, leadership teams need to
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  transform.
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  What I found in my experience and maybe you can share your experience in this as well.
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  You can't transform unless you're ready to.
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  Right.
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  And this is where I choose my battles.
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  There are some leadership teams that are know, ready to go on that journey with us to
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  transform the organization.
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  And there are other team members who might say, we just want to implement a project.
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  And then it's they're not ready and it's not the time.
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  And so this this is really a journey.
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  It's an evolution.
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  We go on this journey with the company as far as your readiness is, and we take them to the
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  next step as far as they want to go, but you can't force this transformation either.
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  Within the book, I do detail a couple of things that I've observed leadership teams, business
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  leaders need to have in the digital future.
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  So I've detailed those out as 6 traits for leadership for future organizations.
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  And this involves one of the key things is really abundance thinking or abundance mindset.
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  And that is being able to think beyond your current boundaries.
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  Current industry boundaries, current business boundaries, current physical boundaries, We
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  have now with new technologies, the ability to enter new markets, to, you know, even startups
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  can have on day 1 of business access to a global marketplace.
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  So our traditional industry boundaries, you know, our our physical boundaries as well, you
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  don't need a branch to enter a market.
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  You don't need a physical office.
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  Companies can exist virtually and still be a $1,000,000 business.
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  And so these traditional boundaries are no longer valid.
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  And business leaders need to be able to think beyond those boundaries and understand that
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  technology creates those seamless, existence as well.
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  The other element is really around empowering people, being able to, trust that your teams
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  can do what they are meant to do and empowering them to do it.
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  And a good amount of this is, you know, understanding that failure is a learning, a
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  learning process, that you have to develop with failure, without failure, you don't learn.
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  And this is a key element that many corporates don't tend to embrace.
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  I would say the next element is around consciousness and empathy, which is really,
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  really important.
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  To be aware of your round your surroundings, to be aware of why people do what they do and what
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  people behave in the way they behave.
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  And what I've learned is resistance to change usually comes from an element of fear fear of,
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  losing controls, fear of not knowing something or not understanding something, fear of
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  becoming irrelevant in the tech environment, And so understanding this and having empathy
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  towards it and having an understanding for how we can take people on that journey you know,
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  you can learn new skills.
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  It's not difficult to learn.
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  You have to shift the way you look at your role.
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  All of these kinds of of things need empathy and a certain amount of vulnerability to
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  connect with people.
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  Looking at, flexibility and adaptability, we've seen a lot of that during the COVID
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  environment, which is the next element.
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  So within COVID, many businesses were able to pivot and transform and very quickly shift and
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  adapt to the new environments, which is the non physical space.
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  And also closeness customers, which is something you mentioned.
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  What I found very surprising, is most C level executives don't have direct interactions with
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  their customer base.
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  Mhmm.
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  And they, you know, rely on HR or marketing teams or even sales teams to get an
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  understanding for the people on the ground.
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  And this is this is, I think, this should change.
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  We see many organizations now taking their c levels 2 branches to connect with customers,
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  you know, on-site really to understand how people use their products and services, what
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  their needs are, what is the problem space?
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  And I think this connection makes these leadership teams more human as well, and more
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  accessible.
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  So these are some, great example I'd like to see more corporates, incorporate.
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  And the last one is, of course, courage and conviction.
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  Transformation, digital transformation can be a really tough process.
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  And you need people who are bold enough to initiate and to stick with it and to drive that
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  change.
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  So those are the elements that I detail out in book.
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  Well, I I think it's your point.
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  Right?
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  You can only take a team as far as they're willing to go.
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  And I I say sometimes it's pockets of work that you do.
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  You do it.
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  You can only take them along that far.
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  And then if there's you recognize the next steps that they need to make and you're getting
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  massive pushback, then that means they're ready not they're not ready to take the next step of
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  the journey, and you have to say that to them.
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  You know, I think we've done, you know, really good work together.
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  This is where I think we need to go.
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  This is my sense of what I'm getting from your environment.
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  You know, you need to reflect on this and give me direction because, of course, you know, it's
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  like you'd be doing that tug of war, to one end.
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  And then you're not gonna be able to create the change, and then that's the legacy of you being
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  in the environment and you wanna leave on that note that you've done the part that you agreed
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  to.
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  So I think, you know, what you talked a lot about is, and I would say definitely courage
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  like you're saying when there's translation, but trust, you know, if I talk a lot about
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  psychological safety, like, so that people can make mistakes, you know, like like you said, in
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  corporate, it's it's like you're not allowed to make mistakes.
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  And and how do your leadership, you know, the different various levels of your leadership
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  teams how do they address when there are, mistakes and and, you know, how how do teams
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  respond when there is a mistake?
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  That gives you a real good context of what's happening so that, you know, that's and that's
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  oftentimes when people can learn from that you know, there could be such massive things that
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  could going forward from those mistakes.
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  But again, if people can't openly talk about You know, I I actually did this wrong, and this
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  is what I figured out.
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  You know, the people listening to them can gain but the leadership teams or the leaders have to
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  be able to have the capacity to hold that space and not shut people down.
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  And then if people are in fear to your point, they're they're not gonna be able to evolve
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  into the optimal use of of their skills, right?
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  Absolutely.
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  I I think there are several things that I've I've done in the past that have helped that.
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  Right?
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  So what you're talking about in many organizations come down to the the culture.
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  And some organizations do have a very directive strict culture of, you know, 0 tolerance for
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  failure.
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  Particularly if you go into, for example, financial services or pharmaceuticals where you
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  have very regulated environment.
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  There tends to be very strong kind of control functions and, you know, compliance body that
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  that is very strict about how things are done.
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  And I think one of the the key elements here is, and I do go into that at the beginning of
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  the book, which is kind of why, you know, the book isn't necessarily just a textbook.
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  It does have a lot of elements around how technology should be implemented.
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  But it does go into the element of looking at, how do you drive, how do you create purpose
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  within an organization, and how do you connect people to that purpose?
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  And how do you identify values that connect people together and drive transformation.
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  One of the things that I've done in the past, was you know, working with, a CEO.
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  And for him, you know, that he walked into a culture.
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  He'd been there for a couple of years.
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  But he had walked into a culture and an organization as a newcomer, in a very directive
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  environment where people waited.
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  People know there was a fear of hierarchy people waited to be asked a question before
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  they spoke in meetings.
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  So one of the things that we did was to create an artificial environment to demonstrate that
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  there's a new culture.
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  Setting up a town hall session for all employees, partially digital and partially
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  physical, and have him there in the physical space, basically answering questions.
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  And positioning people, pre settings certain people in the room who are going to ask the
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  toughest questions, the taboo questions.
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  And we had two or three people in the room who had been, you know, we pre agreed here are the
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  questions, ask these questions, and he responded very positively.
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  And then provided his honest and authentic response to those questions.
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  And this started to create an environment where people recognized, okay, we're shifting now.
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  We can ask there's no consequence to being outspoken.
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  We can speak up and we can ask the tough questions that are concerning us.
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  And so this trigger then a shift and a kind of a refreshing change in the organization where
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  people realized, okay, this person is far more accessible than his predecessor.
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  And there's not going to be a negative consequence if I approach him and I speak to
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  him and if I wanted to have a dialogue.
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  And so these these are kind some of the artificial ways that we create those
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  transformations as well.
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  Amazing.
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  Yeah.
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  Because people need to see, and
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  it really, especially if the CEOs have been had to play this, you know, bureaucratic top down
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  kind of role.
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  Well, you know, and then all of a sudden, it's like there's a new sheriff in town, but nobody
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  knows that there's been a change of rules of engagement.
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  They're like, I'm not gonna believe it until I see it.
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  So I like that that people can actually see it and say, wow, it's interesting.
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  To be able to be in that space.
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  That's a that's a nice, I would say, a bit simulated, but if the if the CEO is able to
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  deliver that people are kind of able to at least drop their guard a bit and start to
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  recognize, okay, we can start risking a bit so that eventually, you know, of course, it would
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  still take time, and safety over time and consistency and those types of things.
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  If their CEO's listening, and maybe they've they've attempted this in the past.
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  And, you know, and maybe they're like, well, I tried this before and, it didn't go so well or,
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  because I'm, you know, maybe they're more of an, a bureaucratic structure still, but they're
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  recognizing that they have to shift off and to try transformational.
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  What kind of things would you tell them to start to consider or some things that they
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  should you do a lot of digital mindset reflection with with these individuals?
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  What are some of the things that DCUs should start to, reflecting on about potentially
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  starting to make a shift again?
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  I I think one of the key things I would advise them to look at is, their own leadership team,
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  right, their direct reports, people that are working with them, the closest kind of network
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  of people within their their, organization.
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  And I would advise them to look at or try to identify people that they can use as advocates.
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  Right?
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  So within your own leadership team, looking at who is able to go with you on this journey and
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  support you.
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  A lot of times, you do find CEOs working very closely with COOs, and and, you know, them
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  having a very strong camaraderie in terms of how do we partner up and drive the change?
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  And also being able to identify maybe not within leadership, but maybe levels below them
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  Who are the people who have influence?
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  An influence doesn't come with position or authority.
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  Influence does tend to come sometimes with you know, personalities, the gravitas of the
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  person, or even length of time they've been in an organization, size of network, being able to
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  identify who the people that they need to connect with, to create kind of almost a task
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  force of people that are going to help them drive this transformation.
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  You need to have those.
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  When we look at transformation in an organization, we don't look at changing a 100%
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  of the people.
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  We don't look at changing even 60%.
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  We look at finding those 20% that will transform that are already bought into it that
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  are open to it.
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  Convincing them, and they are the ones, you know, these are the people with the network,
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  with the influence.
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  They are the ones that are going to advocate for the change.
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  And if you find those personalities in the company and take them on board and power them
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  and create an environment where they can drive the change for you as well, is not a one man
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  job.
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  It is a team effort, and they are going to then start influencing people.
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  They're going to start creating more advocates and creating classroom change across the
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  organization.
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  Within the leadership team, there's always going to be people who are against it.
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  And I think One thing I would advise leadership teams is also understanding motivations,
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  understanding motivations of people.
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  If someone's resisting change, what is the resistance about?
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  Is it something that they're afraid of, or is there something more sinister behind it?
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  And sometimes we do actually discover there's a reason someone doesn't want to open up their
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  area of business or their business unit simply because there are things that are not going
• 19:55
  right that they don't want exposed.
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  So the transformation process is challenging.
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  This is why I said earlier, you have to be bold and you have to stick with it.
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  And oftentimes, understanding motivations behind resistance then can uncover how you
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  approach that issue as well.
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  And it's not just the motivations of people.
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  I think it's also about understanding your own motivation as a leader.
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  Why do you think this is important to do?
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  Because if you're not convinced a 100%, you can't convince anyone else.
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  So you have to understand your motivations very, very strongly as well and communicate
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  that.
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  And then that's when the passion comes through.
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  On an operational level, there are a couple of things that I would say, is put your money
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  where you can find the best value in return.
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  It's not just about the new shiny thing in the market.
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  You know, a lot of people are talking about chat GPT and AI.
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  Last year, it was metaverse the year before that was blocking.
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  So we do find these trends coming out, a lot of them on LinkedIn as well.
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  Forget the trends.
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  Find the real things that can bring business value for your company and your customer base
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  and investing those things.
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  And, you know, uh-uh, I I'm probably one of the only consultants out there who would say, if
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  I can't bring value to you, I would tell you I can't bring value I I don't mind losing a
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  contract, but I don't think you should implement something that your company doesn't
• 21:16
  need.
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  And I think this is a an important element of you know, making sure you you put the money
• 21:21
  where you your limited resources where you are bringing the most value.
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  In the last I would advise is as well look at looking at dual transformation.
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  There are companies that focus on transforming internally, their core processes, their core
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  business, And there are companies that focus on innovation, the new thing, the next business
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  idea.
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  I believe it should be a dual transformation where you change your current business at the
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  same time you're changing for the new as well.
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  And this is not so easy to do because you you you kinda lose focus and you don't know what to
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  what takes priority.
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  There are times when it gets really challenging with resources and so on.
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  This dual transformation is something that I do address in the book, in the best practices as
• 22:04
  well.
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  Amazing.
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  So, and I, you know, one thing I I wanna say is, legacy, right?
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  Cause when I talk to leaders, I talk about, you know, what is your Like, you know, you and I
• 22:15
  started off talking about what what guided us.
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  But I think a lot of times with awareness, with that for that meter to be able to to invest his
• 22:22
  or her time to really get connected and get clear headed about what, you know, why did they
• 22:28
  start their journey?
• 22:29
  And I often, you know, say when they are no longer there in whatever capacity, whether they
• 22:35
  sell their business or they move on to somewhere else, what legacy or imprint do they
• 22:39
  wanna leave behind?
• 22:40
  As well to become very, very clear about the steps in between because it could be very
• 22:45
  dizzying in between.
• 22:46
  And if that leader loses contact with that internal space within themselves about why
• 22:51
  they're leading or what made them want, to be a leader.
• 22:56
  And are they in alignment with their values so that in turn it becomes easier to get a a
• 23:01
  really good vision about where you're going with your company as well?
• 23:04
  Or the company that they're leading.
• 23:06
  And I think those becomes things.
• 23:07
  And of course, leaders are very, you know, with my arena, the mental stress on them, the
• 23:13
  burnout, you know, the demands that they have on them are very, very high level, but I often
• 23:19
  say to them, you know, you have to take that time to take care of yourself so that you can,
• 23:23
  and in turn, take care of others and connect to others and then be able to kind of steer the
• 23:28
  ship in the, you know, because without the leader being completely healthy and aware, it's
• 23:32
  it's difficult to maintain this level of capacity on, you know, like you said, a 2 3 or
• 23:37
  5 year kind of process.
• 23:39
  So, Kamala, this has been amazing for your book.
• 23:43
  Again, tell us the the name and where people can get it.
• 23:47
  We will have a link in the, show notes for the book and for anything else that where people
• 23:53
  can get ahold of you.
• 23:55
  So, the book is called the human side of digital business transformation published by
• 23:59
  Wiley, and you can get it.
• 24:01
  It's actually available globally today.
• 24:04
  So that's very exciting, across the the world in the US in Asia and so on.
• 24:10
  The easiest way to it would be either on Amazon or on my website, kamlesh larvae.com.
• 24:16
  And I'm very active on Twitter and LinkedIn so people can find me there well, and I'm happy to
• 24:21
  continue the conversation if they're looking to do that as well.
• 24:26
  And, I think that's it.
• 24:27
  Is there anything I missed?
• 24:29
  No.
• 24:29
  No.
• 24:29
  I think you didn't.
• 24:30
  And, Kamales is spelled k a m a l e s l a r d I.
• 24:35
  So, she's she's active LinkedIn, like as she said, or also Twitter.
• 24:39
  So what am I taking away?
• 24:41
  I I'm taking away that at the end of the day, it's really about, that internal purpose of
• 24:47
  individuals that are leading.
• 24:49
  You know, it's not about the next shiny object.
• 24:52
  Like like you said, the metaverse or chat GBT.
• 24:55
  It's really about getting quiet and looking internally and then also thinking about what's
• 25:01
  the touch point that I'm not aware of about what my customer might be experiencing with my
• 25:06
  product.
• 25:07
  And I love that, concept of the ecosystem and that your c leaders C suite leaders need to
• 25:13
  have that kind of visit or touch point to really, really understand how their product
• 25:18
  lines or their technological elements that you're trying to implement is affecting the
• 25:24
  average person.
• 25:25
  We have there's a bit of a disconnection there.
• 25:27
  So I would suggest is if anybody's needing, to have a chat, reach out, get the book, and then
• 25:35
  you would, I'm sure you're gonna key in a lot of things there.
• 25:37
  You can reach out to Kamala after that.
• 25:39
  For anyone wanting to know about authentic leadership, what I would suggest, is just going
• 25:44
  to my website robsanderhodge.com for a stat quiz There's a really, really quick quiz, that
• 25:50
  you can look at.
• 25:51
  How authentic are you, in the areas of leadership?
• 25:54
  And, you know, I'm sure you do a lot of things well.
• 25:57
  There's a couple of blind spots that we all have, then we would send you a very quick
• 26:01
  report with some recommendations.
• 26:03
  Again, Kamala, thanks so much.
• 26:04
  And for everyone, thanks for hanging out with us and look forward to chatting with you again,
• 26:09
  next week.
• 26:10
  Take care.
• 26:10
  Thank you.
• 26:11
  Bye bye.
• 26:12
  Hi.
• 26:13
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 26:18
  healthy change.
• 26:20
  Roxanne is a kino speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 26:29
  blueprint.
• 26:30
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.