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Oli Extension Apprehension? Cards on Short Leashes in 2026 · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes beside Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn, and gentlemen,
0:16
Speaker 1: as usual, before we start, we beg okay, we want
0:21
Speaker 1: more subscribers blue past six thousand. As you know, the
0:25
Speaker 1: goal is to get to seven thousand subscribers. So if
0:30
Speaker 1: you enjoy Cardinal Territory as much as we do, go
0:33
Speaker 1: ahead and reach out and hit that button and subscribe
0:37
Speaker 1: and subscribe to Cardinal Territory. All right, gentlemen, full squad
0:43
Speaker 1: is in Jupiter, Florida. The Cardinals are getting ready for
0:47
Speaker 1: the season ahead. Ali Marmal, who we're all friends with,
0:52
Speaker 1: is at the Helm, thirty nine year old guy, young manager,
0:56
Speaker 1: in the last year of his contract. So my quest
1:00
Speaker 1: to you to get us started in this episode of
1:03
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. And I'm going to start with Lance because
1:06
Speaker 1: he looks he looks the least engaged, So I'm gonna
1:10
Speaker 1: start with Lance. Ali is overseeing a rebuild. Now you're
1:15
Speaker 1: a manager that's looking for another contract. Right, they talked
1:19
Speaker 1: about maybe getting him one, maybe extending him hasn't happened.
1:24
Speaker 1: If you're Oli Marble, what's the goal of this season,
1:27
Speaker 1: so you look good. Obviously, you have a team that's
1:30
Speaker 1: gonna go through some growing pains.
1:32
Speaker 2: What's the goal for Ali Marble Lance now?
1:35
Speaker 3: I think the number one thing he needs to show
1:39
Speaker 3: anybody is that these guys can improve daily and that
1:43
Speaker 3: he can make sure that they stay engaged when they're
1:46
Speaker 3: going to go through some losing streets this year. These
1:50
Speaker 3: young guys have to be able to you know, you
1:53
Speaker 3: have to keep him accountable, but they've got to be
1:55
Speaker 3: able to grow at the same time. So it's going
1:58
Speaker 3: to be a trying year for him, I think in
2:01
Speaker 3: certain ways, because it's not about winning, it's about developing.
2:04
Speaker 3: And then when you're losing at the big league level
2:06
Speaker 3: trying to trying.
2:07
Speaker 4: To develop it, it can it can be tough.
2:10
Speaker 3: But the main thing with these guys is you see
2:13
Speaker 3: things that probably fans and us won't be able to see,
2:16
Speaker 3: but behind the scenes and stuff like that, seeing these
2:20
Speaker 3: guys grow, do their work, make sure they're getting better
2:24
Speaker 3: a little bit at a time, and then by the
2:26
Speaker 3: end of the year, you know, you're starting to see
2:29
Speaker 3: every day big leaguers and guys that you can kind
2:31
Speaker 3: of build the future around. So I think that's going
2:34
Speaker 3: to be the main thing for him this year is
2:36
Speaker 3: to be able to hold the room and keep it
2:38
Speaker 3: right when you lose, because it's it's tough to do that,
2:41
Speaker 3: but also keep these young guys moving in the right
2:43
Speaker 3: direction and you know, getting them to develop the way
2:46
Speaker 3: that you need them to be to be a successful
2:49
Speaker 3: major league team when when when the time comes.
2:52
Speaker 1: I think Ali has done a great job of keeping
2:54
Speaker 1: the room good, bad, things going well, things not going well.
2:59
Speaker 1: His player played for him. But Kyle, I'll ask you
3:02
Speaker 1: a similar question for Ali this year under these circumstances,
3:07
Speaker 1: what are the expectations.
3:12
Speaker 5: Uh, it's a good question. I mean, I don't know.
3:16
Speaker 5: I think building building some type of culture that is sustainable.
3:23
Speaker 5: I suppose I don't know that that's hard. The only
3:27
Speaker 5: people that really know the expectations of what makes it
3:30
Speaker 5: a good year are the people who've been in those conversations. Ollie,
3:33
Speaker 5: I'm front office, rest of the coaching staff. We can
3:38
Speaker 5: sit here and speculate what might get him an extension.
3:42
Speaker 5: And Jim, I know you love speculating and you know,
3:47
Speaker 5: giving everybody your hypothesis and what's gonna happen. I know
3:50
Speaker 5: you're like that word, but I don't know. It's such
3:54
Speaker 5: a tough spot to be in. I've seen it with
3:57
Speaker 5: Paul Malder in Minnesota firsthand, where he was you know,
4:01
Speaker 5: new regime came in. He ended up winning Manager of
4:04
Speaker 5: the Year in twenty seventeen because it went from one
4:05
Speaker 5: hundred losses to the playoffs. He was there in twenty eighteen,
4:10
Speaker 5: we just barely missed the playoffs, and then they got
4:12
Speaker 5: a new manager, and then with Rock Coball Delhi. I
4:17
Speaker 5: don't know, only Tim and all in those guys have
4:20
Speaker 5: had those conversations. But I think if you trust him
4:24
Speaker 5: to oversee this part of the process, in my mind,
4:28
Speaker 5: you trust him going forward when it goes well and
4:31
Speaker 5: when you start to move back into the playoff un so,
4:35
Speaker 5: I think the right thing to do would be, Hey,
4:38
Speaker 5: as long as the development and the culture side of
4:40
Speaker 5: things go well, then you can expect to be here
4:43
Speaker 5: moving forward.
4:45
Speaker 1: I don't go with hypothesis. I would say nuanced analysis.
4:50
Speaker 1: That's what I provide based on many years of being
4:53
Speaker 1: a regional cable of journalists. But Lanes, yeah, you have
4:57
Speaker 1: to admit, yeah, I have to admit that this is
5:00
Speaker 1: a tough job for any manager, Being a big league
5:03
Speaker 1: manager is a great thing, but winning isn't what you're
5:07
Speaker 1: based on. And generally a lot of the teaching and
5:10
Speaker 1: learning happens in the minor leagues.
5:11
Speaker 2: When you're rebuilding, it's a different story.
5:14
Speaker 1: So how much of a challenge is this for Ali
5:18
Speaker 1: knowing he's got to teach these kids, he's got to
5:21
Speaker 1: get growth out of these kids.
5:23
Speaker 2: At the same time, he'd like to get an extension.
5:28
Speaker 3: I think that you're gonna see. I mean, he has
5:31
Speaker 3: a background in this, right, He was in the minor leagues.
5:33
Speaker 3: He was in the minor league manager and stuff, so
5:36
Speaker 3: he knows.
5:37
Speaker 4: What it it entails to have to do that.
5:40
Speaker 3: But what happens is you get put in a win
5:44
Speaker 3: loss record in the big leagues that make you look
5:47
Speaker 3: worse manager like as a manager than you are because
5:51
Speaker 3: everyone based stuf on win loss. But I think he's
5:55
Speaker 3: you know, he came into a group that was expected
5:57
Speaker 3: to win, he did a good job.
5:58
Speaker 4: Then now he's.
6:00
Speaker 3: Being asked to see the next group come and see
6:04
Speaker 3: what we can build. So then it's like, okay, so
6:07
Speaker 3: he came through the minor leagues doing that anyways, so
6:10
Speaker 3: why wouldn't it be like, Hey, here's what we got
6:12
Speaker 3: going forward. The only thing that you ever see when
6:14
Speaker 3: you see a new front office come in and they
6:17
Speaker 3: keep the old manager, it gives them a year of
6:21
Speaker 3: another year where they can say, oh, well, I didn't
6:23
Speaker 3: have my own manager. So that's my only worry because
6:26
Speaker 3: Oli and I are. You know, I like Ali a lot,
6:29
Speaker 3: we're close. I just hope that he's not like sitting
6:32
Speaker 3: there gonna wear it for him and then him's gonna say, okay,
6:35
Speaker 3: you know, now I'm going to do my own manager.
6:37
Speaker 3: So it gives him another year in this rebuild too.
6:40
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, it's my first year with my new manager.
6:43
Speaker 3: And if you if that's kind of the way it's
6:45
Speaker 3: going to go, that sucks for all. It really does,
6:47
Speaker 3: because he doesn't deserve that. But if you're a front
6:51
Speaker 3: office and you have a really bad year and the
6:55
Speaker 3: kids don't take off and do this and that, okay, cool,
6:58
Speaker 3: I can let Ali go and then I can.
6:59
Speaker 4: Bring my own manager.
7:00
Speaker 3: It gives me another year of saying, give me some
7:03
Speaker 3: more time, and then then it becomes okay, here we are.
7:07
Speaker 3: So that's my only worry because that's kind of how
7:10
Speaker 3: we've all seen it go in every group we've been
7:12
Speaker 3: to right, you get a new front office this and that,
7:16
Speaker 3: but the old manager wear it for a year, and
7:17
Speaker 3: then I got two years of of newness that I
7:21
Speaker 3: can get away with until I have to actually start
7:24
Speaker 3: proving that I'm worth the higher as a front office guy.
7:27
Speaker 4: So it's an interesting place for everybody to be in.
7:31
Speaker 1: See now, Lance is being honest, because we have seen
7:35
Speaker 1: that before. But to me and Kyle, you know him.
7:38
Speaker 1: Both of you guys know Ali pretty well. He played
7:41
Speaker 1: for him.
7:42
Speaker 2: There's a guy.
7:44
Speaker 1: To me when I look at Oli, it's a guy
7:46
Speaker 1: who can handle it. There's some pressure there. Obviously, he
7:49
Speaker 1: knows he's gonna he's gonna take some some shots because
7:53
Speaker 1: the team is going to go through some ups and
7:55
Speaker 1: downs and plenty of downs.
7:57
Speaker 2: What is it about.
7:58
Speaker 1: Ali that you know that that tells you that maybe
8:01
Speaker 1: he can get through this and then beehims guy?
8:05
Speaker 5: Well, relationally, he's just really really good.
8:08
Speaker 4: You know.
8:08
Speaker 5: I think we mentioned this on the servant up before
8:11
Speaker 5: we got here at foul Territory. At work, he just
8:13
Speaker 5: Ali relationally really knows how to not only handle the
8:17
Speaker 5: locker room, but he handles the media well, he handles
8:20
Speaker 5: the relationship with the front office well, and He really
8:25
Speaker 5: acts as the buffer when needing to be there, and
8:28
Speaker 5: he kind of wears it a little bit when when
8:31
Speaker 5: times aren't going well, and I think that buys him
8:33
Speaker 5: a lot of equity in the locker room. I think
8:36
Speaker 5: that's one of the reasons why players enjoy playing for him.
8:41
Speaker 5: He walks around and maybe a lot of managers walk
8:43
Speaker 5: around the outfields or a VP, but he walks around to
8:46
Speaker 5: get a temperature of everybody when you're there on any
8:49
Speaker 5: given day. Probably I don't know, and I was a veteran,
8:54
Speaker 5: so maybe it was a little bit different, But ninety
8:56
Speaker 5: percent of the days I showed up, I had some
8:59
Speaker 5: type of converse with Ali about how this is going,
9:02
Speaker 5: how that's going. And there was a lot of players
9:04
Speaker 5: I think could say the same thing. That if they
9:06
Speaker 5: weren't intimidated to say hello to the manager, then they
9:09
Speaker 5: probably had a conversation with him, even if it was just, Hey,
9:13
Speaker 5: how's your kids doing, how's your body feeling. That's that's
9:17
Speaker 5: one thing about Ali that makes him really really good,
9:19
Speaker 5: And not all managers are like that. So I don't
9:24
Speaker 5: know how I think he I hate to speculate if
9:27
Speaker 5: it doesn't work out here because I think he's the
9:29
Speaker 5: right guy for the job. But I say that because
9:31
Speaker 5: if it doesn't work out here, Oli will have a
9:33
Speaker 5: job somewhere else. In my mind quickly, because relationally, he
9:37
Speaker 5: has what it takes to be a good manager in
9:39
Speaker 5: this day and age in the big leagues and to
9:40
Speaker 5: be successful.
9:43
Speaker 1: He's also good about, like established establishing relationships with the media,
9:49
Speaker 1: Like he's good on all fronts like the media.
9:52
Speaker 5: Are you sure you guys are friends, Like, are you
9:54
Speaker 5: guys actually friends? Like Lance and I are friends with him?
9:57
Speaker 2: He would say no. He would say no as he
10:00
Speaker 2: told him.
10:01
Speaker 1: I actually told him, well, he makes me think we're friends.
10:07
Speaker 2: I saw he can played the room.
10:09
Speaker 1: I told him I was going to make a thumbnail
10:11
Speaker 1: for this podcast, and I was going to pick out
10:14
Speaker 1: an unflattering picture, just because I like to let him
10:17
Speaker 1: know that I have a little juice. It isn't much,
10:20
Speaker 1: but a little juice. Plus you know, sounds like we.
10:22
Speaker 5: Where's that thumbnail, Jim, where's the thumbnail? I want to
10:25
Speaker 5: see you do this. I don't know if you're going
10:27
Speaker 5: to do it or not.
10:28
Speaker 1: We'll see you watch It's on my phone and I'm
10:32
Speaker 1: using my phone now. Now we're going behind the scenes
10:35
Speaker 1: of Cardinal territory lance. I'm gonna ask you because he
10:39
Speaker 1: didn't want to say it. Kyle didn't want to say it.
10:42
Speaker 1: You'll say whatever comes up, it comes out. So do
10:46
Speaker 1: you think that Ali will get an extension?
10:49
Speaker 3: I think he should. If you're going to let him
10:52
Speaker 3: wear this year and firing, that's that's a dick move,
10:56
Speaker 3: to be honest with you. There's really no way to
10:59
Speaker 3: say it. I think with what you're building and hims
11:03
Speaker 3: had two years of you know, conversations and everything with
11:09
Speaker 3: Ali because he's been in the organization for two years,
11:12
Speaker 3: they knew, they knew who needed to be moved where
11:15
Speaker 3: and what needed to happen. So they know each other
11:18
Speaker 3: well enough to know, hey, this is what we want
11:20
Speaker 3: to build and all that. So if those communications have
11:23
Speaker 3: happened and and everybody's you know, sees the future head,
11:27
Speaker 3: why would you not a guy that's been there, it's
11:30
Speaker 3: been in the organization, he's going to see the see
11:32
Speaker 3: the rebuild through. Why not give him a two year
11:35
Speaker 3: extension right now on things that are going because these
11:38
Speaker 3: young guys will see that and be like, Okay, here's
11:40
Speaker 3: what we need to do. Because he's good to be here.
11:43
Speaker 3: And I got to do this or I'm not playing here.
11:47
Speaker 3: If a guy's on a on a short leap as
11:49
Speaker 3: a manager and you're a young player and you see,
11:52
Speaker 3: oh we're losing and people start calling for his head
11:55
Speaker 3: and he doesn't have an extension, you might get guys
11:58
Speaker 3: not listening to him. That might be a thing because
12:01
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, he's probably gone and we'll get a
12:03
Speaker 3: new manager in next year. So if you want to
12:05
Speaker 3: actually build a culture and do these things, the guy
12:08
Speaker 3: that's actually good, that's there every day right now to
12:11
Speaker 3: make these guys accountable, you need to have his back.
12:15
Speaker 3: So that's why I think an extension is probably should
12:18
Speaker 3: be had moving here forward this spring training so these
12:21
Speaker 3: guys know, hey, I'm going to be here and he's
12:23
Speaker 3: going to be here.
12:25
Speaker 1: Kyle, I'm one of the half backwards. As a tribute
12:28
Speaker 1: to Ali, do you think a manager who wears his
12:31
Speaker 1: hat backwards can get an extension? You see the way
12:36
Speaker 1: you see the way phrase that to you to make
12:38
Speaker 1: it easier for you to answer.
12:41
Speaker 4: Yeah.
12:42
Speaker 5: I think if I was in times shoes, I would
12:45
Speaker 5: be giving Ali an extension for when I think we
12:50
Speaker 5: should be back to the playoffs. So if that's in
12:52
Speaker 5: two years, then that's your extension. You get him through
12:55
Speaker 5: that year. And I think it's it's easy for us
12:58
Speaker 5: to see that when things don't start, when things don't
13:01
Speaker 5: go up with managers, they don't care about the two
13:03
Speaker 5: years left on the deal. They pay that guy to
13:05
Speaker 5: get the right guy. So you give all of his
13:07
Speaker 5: extension and to when you know, you think you're in
13:10
Speaker 5: the playoffs, and along the lines, you just have you
13:13
Speaker 5: have checks on where you think the organization should be.
13:16
Speaker 5: And if you're not keeping up with where you should
13:18
Speaker 5: be and you're not, you know, staying in line with
13:21
Speaker 5: that timeline, then okay, you make a cage. But I
13:25
Speaker 5: think operating under the extension would be better for everybody
13:31
Speaker 5: in this case.
13:33
Speaker 1: Yep, be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
13:35
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. You're watching
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Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
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14:49
Speaker 1: Next topic, So we talked about the rebuild. We've been
14:53
Speaker 1: talking about it for a while. Not a reset, but
14:55
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of players now I'm the Cardinals. Young
14:58
Speaker 1: players who the Cardinals have seen before. Now they're gonna
15:03
Speaker 1: get a longer.
15:04
Speaker 2: Look.
15:04
Speaker 1: My question is, and I'll start with Lance on this,
15:08
Speaker 1: of all the players, who do you who do you
15:09
Speaker 1: think might have the shortest runway meaning we've gotten the
15:13
Speaker 1: look now you kind of got to produce while other
15:16
Speaker 1: guys are young enough where they might be given more time.
15:19
Speaker 2: Do you have a guy who might fit there?
15:22
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the only one that's kind of
15:25
Speaker 3: in that mold he got to arp this year was Gorman, Right,
15:28
Speaker 3: So Gorman's it's it's like a make or break for him.
15:30
Speaker 3: I think, so that would be the leash that you
15:35
Speaker 3: would probably go to moving forward. And I say that,
15:40
Speaker 3: I mean he's got Yeah, that would be my guess.
15:43
Speaker 3: I think everyone else is kind of like, hey, still
15:47
Speaker 3: young enough and all that. But when you look at
15:48
Speaker 3: him and what he's accomplished already with being able to
15:51
Speaker 3: hit some home runs, when he's done it, he's just
15:53
Speaker 3: got to get there and do it a little bit.
15:55
Speaker 3: So leash wise, that's probably the one. I think fan
16:00
Speaker 3: are like, hey, like letting play the first half, but
16:02
Speaker 3: if it's not there, it's not there.
16:04
Speaker 4: I think that would be the shortest leash there.
16:07
Speaker 1: Answer, Kyle, do you have a guy then I'll give
16:11
Speaker 1: you mind.
16:13
Speaker 5: Yeah you're gonna answer it, Okay, I'll try to make
16:15
Speaker 5: this quick then. Uh yeah, I mean, I don't know.
16:19
Speaker 5: I think you probably have. I don't know. That's a
16:23
Speaker 5: tough one. I don't know that you maybe Gorman okay,
16:26
Speaker 5: but if you're going to give them a half a year,
16:29
Speaker 5: why not give him the full year? You know, same
16:31
Speaker 5: with Walker, Right, you got these guys around because you
16:34
Speaker 5: want to see what they can do for a full year.
16:36
Speaker 5: I hate judging somebody on two months of a season
16:39
Speaker 5: because I've been that guy that has two months of
16:42
Speaker 5: a season and then four really good months, And had
16:44
Speaker 5: I been given up on after the first two months,
16:47
Speaker 5: then the rest of it wouldn't happen. You know, we're
16:48
Speaker 5: in this for one sixty two. When you're in that
16:50
Speaker 5: locker room. It's something that I've preached multiple times, you know,
16:55
Speaker 5: to young guys. It's like, hey, don't judge yourself on
16:57
Speaker 5: one start, one week, two weeks, give yourself one sixty two,
17:02
Speaker 5: and then when you get to the end, take a
17:03
Speaker 5: look back and see where you're at.
17:05
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to say my guy has to
17:07
Speaker 1: do it in the first couple of months. I'm saying
17:10
Speaker 1: this year, and it's a guy who you guys love,
17:12
Speaker 1: I love him to Polonte, right, And I say this
17:16
Speaker 1: because Polante has had really good stretches, He's shown he
17:21
Speaker 1: can make it. Then he has had others not so good,
17:24
Speaker 1: where he falls back into some things. I think this
17:26
Speaker 1: is the year that the Cardinals are going to look
17:29
Speaker 1: to him to put it all together, and he can't
17:31
Speaker 1: be in the starting rotation. Maybe he's better suited for
17:35
Speaker 1: the bullpen. I think he can be a good starter,
17:37
Speaker 1: But I think in this case, this year, with the
17:39
Speaker 1: rebuild going on, the Cardinals are going to look at
17:42
Speaker 1: Polonte and say, all right, this year, we expect you
17:46
Speaker 1: to be the best version of Andre Polante that you
17:49
Speaker 1: could be.
17:50
Speaker 2: Final question for you, gentlemen.
17:52
Speaker 1: One of the things that hem Bloom has brought to
17:55
Speaker 1: the Cardinals, and I don't know all the specifics, but
17:58
Speaker 1: I read a lot, hear a lot about it, is
18:01
Speaker 1: that he's sort of upgrading player development, meaning more tech,
18:07
Speaker 1: more analysis, in particular with pictures. Now I've heard over
18:12
Speaker 1: the years the Cardinals could use this upgrade. But I'm wondering,
18:16
Speaker 1: you guys, in your stories, you're both pictures Lance when
18:20
Speaker 1: you were pitching. How did you see player development for
18:24
Speaker 1: pictures sort of evolved, if it did at all.
18:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think every organization is different. Right when
18:32
Speaker 3: I came up with the Cardinals, it was throw your sinker,
18:36
Speaker 3: get quick out, so we don't try to strike people out.
18:38
Speaker 4: Things like that.
18:39
Speaker 3: And when you leave I went to Minnesota, they had
18:42
Speaker 3: a different philosophy. Yankees wanted me to do something totally
18:46
Speaker 3: different when I got there. So I think the main
18:49
Speaker 3: thing with all these you know, all the numbers that
18:52
Speaker 3: everyone's chasing now is like, Okay, they put a lot
18:55
Speaker 3: of technology in, but are where we out on getting
18:58
Speaker 3: guys to help them use that on the field. So
19:02
Speaker 3: that's going to be the next phase, right, you know
19:04
Speaker 3: what you're supposed to do, but you know is it.
19:06
Speaker 3: Are you going to change everything about yourself to chase
19:08
Speaker 3: certain things? Or are you how are you going to
19:10
Speaker 3: incorporate it throughout the season? How are you going to
19:13
Speaker 3: incorporate it to your arsenal, your pitch ability, you know,
19:17
Speaker 3: your pitch shape. How you going to do all those things?
19:19
Speaker 3: So we can get all the tech in the world,
19:21
Speaker 3: But if you don't have anybody there to teach them
19:23
Speaker 3: actually how to pitch, and use what they're seeing on
19:26
Speaker 3: the tech to get actual hitters out.
19:28
Speaker 4: It's surely not going to matter.
19:29
Speaker 3: So that's going to be the next thing, Right, Okay,
19:33
Speaker 3: you have all this tech and I've got this great
19:35
Speaker 3: spin rate or I've got this great vertical or horizontal
19:38
Speaker 3: on this pitch. But how you're going to teach them
19:40
Speaker 3: how to get and out with it? And what are
19:42
Speaker 3: you going to do to set it up so you're
19:44
Speaker 3: not you know, over exposing in or you know, teach
19:47
Speaker 3: them actually how to pitch with it. So it's going
19:49
Speaker 3: to be an interesting philosophy. I guess are we just
19:53
Speaker 3: chasing numbers now in tech or are they going to
19:56
Speaker 3: chase it both of them with withouts, because I don't
19:58
Speaker 3: know if they've added any pitching development. They've added people
20:02
Speaker 3: that look at a computer screen effort, But the pitching
20:05
Speaker 3: development is people that actually can teach you to develop pitching,
20:09
Speaker 3: not show you a spreadsheet on here's what you should do.
20:12
Speaker 3: Good luck, sir, because that's what it sounds like. Its
20:14
Speaker 3: more is than anything else.
20:17
Speaker 1: Kyle, tell me a story about your development as a
20:21
Speaker 1: pitcher as you went.
20:22
Speaker 2: Through the major leagues.
20:24
Speaker 5: The first story that came to mind just now was
20:28
Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen. Wes Johnson comes in as the pitching
20:32
Speaker 5: coach and he's like, listen, as a pitching staff. We
20:36
Speaker 5: threw too many fastballs last year, and we got to
20:39
Speaker 5: make sure we're throwing more off speed pitches. And Jacob,
20:43
Speaker 5: Rizzy and I look at each other and we said,
20:44
Speaker 5: do you realize Lance Lynn was one of our starters
20:47
Speaker 5: last year. He's now in Chicago. You cannot blame us
20:51
Speaker 5: for Lance Lynn throwing eighty five to ninety percent heaters
20:54
Speaker 5: as a starter, and he was a lot of the
20:56
Speaker 5: problem here. So we fixed throwing more off speed pitches
21:00
Speaker 5: just by having Lance not in the story rotation. So
21:03
Speaker 5: thankfully we didn't have to make too many adjustments. But
21:07
Speaker 5: that was one thing that Wes Johnson wanted to make
21:08
Speaker 5: sure it worked on, was throwing more spin. So Lance,
21:13
Speaker 5: thank you for upping the heated percentage and causing a
21:16
Speaker 5: twenty minute meeting in spring training that we all love,
21:19
Speaker 5: even though you weren't there anymore. I texted them right
21:22
Speaker 5: after that meeting. Actually so, but I do think Lance
21:26
Speaker 5: makes a good point. I think Dusty and Julio and
21:29
Speaker 5: those guys are they're the right people to be able
21:31
Speaker 5: to take the tech and to describe to them how
21:35
Speaker 5: to use the tech right. It really is what it is.
21:37
Speaker 5: You can have all the research and development in the world,
21:40
Speaker 5: but if you can't apply it, and you can't create
21:42
Speaker 5: people that can pitch with that tech and with that information,
21:45
Speaker 5: you have a problem. So I think they have those guys.
21:49
Speaker 5: I think now it's somewhat getting in the minor leagues
21:52
Speaker 5: as well. Can we teach these guys how to use
21:54
Speaker 5: the tech in the right way earlier and not just
21:57
Speaker 5: pitch to the iPad because I think that's one thing
22:00
Speaker 5: that kind of can get young guys in trouble is
22:02
Speaker 5: that they get this idea through the minor leagues that
22:05
Speaker 5: I need to chase this type of pitch, and then
22:08
Speaker 5: they get to the big leagues and realize, well, all
22:09
Speaker 5: the big league hitters have seen that type of pitch already.
22:12
Speaker 5: Now I need to be able to pitch with that
22:14
Speaker 5: type of pitch. So it's nuanced, you know. But I
22:19
Speaker 5: think that's that really is a big part of it is,
22:21
Speaker 5: you know, trying to start that development a little bit earlier,
22:23
Speaker 5: and you know, hopefully we have those pitching coaches in
22:25
Speaker 5: the minor leagues that can do that.
22:27
Speaker 1: If you're a veteran lance and you go to a
22:31
Speaker 1: new team and they try to reinvent you as a pitcher.
22:35
Speaker 1: I don't know if you encountered that, but how would
22:38
Speaker 1: you react to that? If you're a major league pitcher
22:41
Speaker 1: with a resume and they're trying to tell you something
22:44
Speaker 1: that you don't do that they believe.
22:47
Speaker 2: Will make you better, how do you handle that?
22:50
Speaker 3: I think every team I went to, the pitching coaches
22:52
Speaker 3: have an idea of you know, hey, what you do well,
22:55
Speaker 3: what you could do better at and they give you ideas.
22:59
Speaker 3: For me, I was always open to hearing whatever you
23:01
Speaker 3: had to say, and if it's something that I can incorporate,
23:04
Speaker 3: then so be it. But some of that stuff you
23:06
Speaker 3: can learn and you can help your teammate with too.
23:08
Speaker 3: So I was always on board with, hey, you know,
23:11
Speaker 3: I'll listen and do whatever you know, try whatever you
23:14
Speaker 3: need me to do, you know, and then you learn
23:16
Speaker 3: something new every day. You learn that that worked for you,
23:19
Speaker 3: you learn that it doesn't work for you. So that
23:21
Speaker 3: was the That was my mindset on things. And then
23:25
Speaker 3: when I kept going and you started bouncing around, you
23:28
Speaker 3: need to get a lot of different uh I call
23:30
Speaker 3: them terminologies, right, People always talk uh pitching, but everyone
23:34
Speaker 3: has their different terminologies for some of the similar things.
23:37
Speaker 3: So I feel like the more terminology you use, the
23:40
Speaker 3: more you're able to develop relationships with different guys on
23:43
Speaker 3: on different ways to help people. So I always use
23:46
Speaker 3: that as a way to you know, kind of help myself,
23:49
Speaker 3: but also help a teammate if you know he's going
23:52
Speaker 3: through something or they're trying to you know, change something
23:54
Speaker 3: with him, and be like, hey, I know you're thinking
23:57
Speaker 3: this and this I think of this terminology. I've heard
24:00
Speaker 3: this terminology of being able to do it and incorporate it.
24:03
Speaker 3: And you can help guys that way too. So every
24:06
Speaker 3: team gives you a little bit, a little bit of
24:08
Speaker 3: something to make you better, and then you're always adding
24:11
Speaker 3: in this game, you always want to do a little
24:12
Speaker 3: bit right because the hitters are trying to catch up
24:15
Speaker 3: to you and or they're trying to find patterns and
24:17
Speaker 3: stuff like that, and it's teams that are always finding like, hey,
24:20
Speaker 3: this is you know, get you ran into it when
24:23
Speaker 3: he started to say, hey, this work pitch worked really
24:26
Speaker 3: well for you, but you might be overusing it, so
24:28
Speaker 3: we need to you know, hide it with this pitch
24:30
Speaker 3: and adding.
24:30
Speaker 4: This side of the plate.
24:31
Speaker 3: So stuff that you just don't realize over the course
24:34
Speaker 3: of a year, and then they see it because they
24:36
Speaker 3: had to face you.
24:38
Speaker 1: So, Kyle, open minded approach by Lance Lynn who's always
24:42
Speaker 1: open minded, not stubborn at all. Do you did you
24:45
Speaker 1: follow the same approach?
24:49
Speaker 4: Yeah?
24:49
Speaker 5: I think so, hold on like the actual same approach
24:53
Speaker 5: as lance Or did I.
24:54
Speaker 2: Have meaning that you listen with a smile and you
24:58
Speaker 2: go okay. Yes.
25:00
Speaker 5: I've been accused before of not listening, which was really
25:03
Speaker 5: interesting to me because I always felt like I was
25:06
Speaker 5: pretty open minded to coaching.
25:08
Speaker 2: When I was bringing the question to you, you weren't
25:10
Speaker 2: listening there.
25:11
Speaker 5: But it's fun asking for clarification. Jim, that's it. We
25:14
Speaker 5: can talk about after the show. I don't want to
25:16
Speaker 5: place anybody else's time. I think you have to be
25:20
Speaker 5: open minded. I think one thing when it comes to
25:22
Speaker 5: a veteran coming in as a pitching staff, you have
25:26
Speaker 5: to gain that trust and make sure that that veteran
25:29
Speaker 5: understands that you are there only to make them better,
25:32
Speaker 5: not to put your fingerprint on their career. There's a
25:35
Speaker 5: lot of coaches that have been in that camp where
25:38
Speaker 5: they just try to make changes, to make change when
25:41
Speaker 5: sometimes it's not necessary. But you can get a veteran
25:44
Speaker 5: to buy in if you can build that trust. First,
25:47
Speaker 5: ask more questions to figure out, Okay, if you want
25:50
Speaker 5: to change a slider, take two weeks and figure out
25:52
Speaker 5: why this guy throws a slider this way. Take another
25:55
Speaker 5: week to figure out, you know, maybe is he open
25:58
Speaker 5: to the change, and then go after it. So you
26:01
Speaker 5: got to build that trust and build that relationship if
26:03
Speaker 5: you want players to really buy in and be willing
26:07
Speaker 5: to make the changes that you would. I never would
26:10
Speaker 5: have canned my slider in twenty twenty two if I
26:13
Speaker 5: didn't trust Caleb in the pitching staff in Philadelphia when
26:16
Speaker 5: he came to me that day to see if I
26:17
Speaker 5: wanted to throw a sweeper. But it's that trust, in
26:21
Speaker 5: that relationship that made that happen.
26:24
Speaker 1: I trust that the people watching this program enjoyed it,
26:27
Speaker 1: and that's going to do it for this edition of
26:30
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time for the next episode.
26:33
Speaker 1: Hopefully that one won't suck.