Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #75 - Alex King, Founder of Terignōta

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#75 - Alex King, Founder of Terignōta · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I'm so stoked to bring you guys an episode with Mr Alex King.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: The Pacific Northwest-based sub-ultra athlete joins us on the podcast to tell his story.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It was a great conversation.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: It was really candid.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We talked about a lot of different aspects of Alex's career over the years.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: We got pretty deep into his Achilles injury.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We talked about the goal and the push and the drive and the want to become a professional athlete in the sport and kind of where that's put him in his journey now.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And then, most importantly, we dove into his new venture, which is the brand he launched this year called Terragnoda.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: It's a really just a very dope brand, very aesthetically pleasing, simple, yet significant.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Basically, the kit.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Alex figured out a way to produce the kit at a very affordable cost and it's interesting, it's comfortable and it's taking the trail world by storm.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: You probably most recently saw Brett Hornig wearing a pair of Terragnoda shorts at the Black Canyon 50K, so they're starting to get a little popularity to them, which I love seeing.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Alex is an amazing human, super kind, interesting, introspective guy.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: He has a lot of different thoughts on a lot of different topics and I just really appreciated his perspective on the sport.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one, none other than Mr Alex King, the founder of Terragnoda.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It's time, ladies and gentlemen, we are live, people, earth.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Listen up.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA.
• 2:39
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• 2:48
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• 2:51
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• 2:57
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• 2:59
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• 3:09
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• 3:10
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• 3:15
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• 3:20
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• 3:30
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• 3:36
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• 3:41
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• 3:43
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• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, and check out Ultimate Direction.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Alex King.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: How are you, man?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I'm doing well.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks, dude.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Well, happy Monday man.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: How's your day going so far?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going well, just dealing with some customer service stuff and getting some packages shipped out.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Nice man.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, one of the reasons, one of the obviously you know this is a sub ultra podcast, you're you kind of mix it up between the ultra and the sub ultra scene.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Obviously, there's some great conversation there, but one of the main things that I was so excited to chat with you about is you've launched this brand called Terragnoda Um, and I thought it had beautiful branding, great messaging and just really stellar products from what I can see.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So I'll let you take it away from there to maybe introduce yourself, talk a little bit about that and go from there.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Alex King, as you mentioned, and in November I launched a brand called Terragnoda.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: In November, I launched a brand called Terragnota.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: It's a trail running brand aimed at making trail running accessible to everyone and just reducing the entry price to trail running.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Well, and yeah, high performance trail running also because, yeah, you can, you can grab a pair of shorts and a t-shirt and at Walmart and go run, but to uh, pursue a higher, higher level and, honestly, just get more enjoyment out of the sport.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice to have nice gear and nice gear is expensive.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I wanted to start to bridge that gap.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, dude, I um so on the website there was something your story is something I really connected with you, know I um so on the website there was something your story is something I really connected with you know where, and you could tell the story of, like, what got you thinking about it, cause I thought that was just a something a lot of people can resonate with.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, I guess it kind of goes back to like I don't know, five years ago, when I started pursuing running, like, um, more, I mean never, I've never been like a full-time athlete.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: But when I started pursuing running in more of a professional capacity, um, and putting more effort and time and money and resources into it, um, uh, yeah, I just realized like for the past five-ish years, I've been committing a lot of my life and a lot of my finances and time to running, thinking that at some point it would pay off and, like you know, I could get sponsored or at some point, yeah, at some point I would get paid to run or whatever.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But that never panned out.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I always felt like I was, you know, on the brink of, on the brink of making it in trail running, theoretically, whatever that, whatever that means, yeah, and I had a few setbacks, as you mentioned earlier, uh, or maybe we were offline, but uh had a few setbacks along the way, one of them being uh rupturing my achilles, uh, which we can talk about later um, we'll get into that but, yeah, just like, throughout the throughout the whole process of like giving my whole self to trail running, I just felt like I was like, uh, like, so much trail running is supposed to be this simple, like quote unquote, free sport, but so much of my finances were going to trail running, whether it's racing or buying apparel or travel or gels or whatever.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Um, uh, yeah.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: So, and I like knew I also knew the other side of it, like knew the business side of it.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I had, I had worked for a kiteboarding company in maui for a year and a half and I did a lot of the design and also sourcing from Chinese manufacturers, and so I knew the back end of it and what businesses were actually paying for the apparel and then what they were selling them for.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: And I knew there was a huge mismatch there and knew it could be done cheaper.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And I also just love getting things made and solving problems in that way.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean there's so many factors that amounted to me starting Terragnota.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: It's hard to put them all into one bundle.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, just my yeah bundle.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just my like.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's beautiful.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I listen and the story on the website and I'll direct uh listeners to the website in the show notes.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: But it was like what did you say?
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: You were in boulder, you saw a pair of like 50 bucks.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: You wasted 50 bucks on a pair of socks.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So like this the story on the website it's it's a it's a true story, uh, but it's not the only story.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: That, or the only, yeah, the only factor that led me to know.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Obviously it was like, uh, a catalyst for it, yeah, so the story on the website it's like yeah, I was in boulder, I was staying with a friend there doing a training camp, um, and I needed some new socks, and so I went into the uh, I don't know what, what running store it was, um, but uh, yeah, went in, walked out with two new pairs of socks, fifty dollars later and I was like I just, yeah, 50 bucks for two pairs of socks that are like fine, they work, but they're gonna wear out super quick.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And it just seemed crazy and and at that point I was like it just sounded like a fun challenge to try to get like see if I could get a sock made for cheaper and like, just do it for myself, um, cause I was tired of paying, yeah, 25 bucks for a pair of socks or whatever.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Um, so that was like the initial little catalyst of Terragnota, uh, as it is now, is now, um, obviously it's expanded from socks, but, uh, the challenge, um, of just like seeing seeing how hard it would be to like find a manufacturer design.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about socks design a sock, um, uh, and go through that process and yeah, it just sounded like a fun challenge to me and and something that I wanted to do for myself, so yeah, Dude, I mean to piggyback off that.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I just think that there's such a space like for.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I just want to make a few points here.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: The first one is is like we ha, this is the greatest sport on earth, and the reason I'll say it is because it's not like in the NBA or any significant large professional scenes, where we could just create a brand without a couple million dollars of funding.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Right, it's easier to go and be able to do something like that in trail running, which is amazing.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Second point I'll make is with all of the money coming into the sport and these gigantic corporate, corporate brands like dude.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a good example.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: The other day I saw Satisfye launched like a new belt.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm working with one of my sponsors right now, ultimate Direction, and we're designing the future of what their belts are going to look like, right.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So I popped onto their website and I'm looking at it and I was like it's like a hundred bucks or something like that.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I was like maybe I'll just order it just to.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You know, that way I've got like a sweet little sub ultra belt and you know, I can kind of see the ins and outs and send this to our designer and see what we can do with it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, just checking it out and it's like, dude, you got to pay flat rate unless it's like over, like 200.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Like who the hell is buying this?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: stuff Like it's crazy.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just the mention of Satisfy gets my blood pressure going.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and like you know, they paid, I don't know, 10 bucks, five bucks.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I honestly am not familiar with satisfied's belt, but you know they paid five or ten bucks to get that thing made oh yeah yeah it's crazy like their profit margins have to be the highest, and this is nothing against them oh, absolutely yeah people buy it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: If you want to buy it, go more, more power to you.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: But like I can't imagine that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Like first of all, it's not everybody in the space and second of all, it's like they have to be the most profitable company in the in in the game.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: There's no way they're not.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Like it's crazy yeah, I mean, yeah, uh, I I'm curious how much they spend on just random marketing things, though like, yeah, they're for sure the they for sure have the highest profit margins.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, they're just like.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I mean I think marketing in general is there's so many things that are not productive with it, like I don't know.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I was at black canyon two weeks ago or whenever it was um, and satisfy had like sponsored an aid station there and they had these stickers that were very ugly, uh just like random stickers laying around there everywhere that were like, yeah, I don't know who would ever want one of those stickers, but I was just.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: It just made me think of like Satisfye had to buy these stickers like I don't know, like I don't know 50 cents a sticker or whatever, and they had thousands of them and but like that meant that like money comes from somewhere.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Like that money comes from people buying this short and they have to just charge more for the short.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: And the same thing goes like at another aid station, hoka was just like handing out a bazillion free uh like fanny pack things, which I guess that's cool to get a free fanny pack, but also like everybody has to then pay for it, like they're not actually free.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Everybody's paying for it through the gear and like through yeah, and it's fine.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I just think like there's so many parts of marketing that do nothing other than make the gear more expensive, like yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting take and it's so correct, man.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, and like you have to, I mean you're thinking about it too from, I guess, more from the brand marketing side, where they're trying to tell the story of or whatever story they're trying to tell, but it's it's not even like more storytelling, it's more so just wasteful spending, where the storytelling is great, like if you see a high production value youtube story on somebody, on some athlete or whatever, like I love that shit, like it's entertaining, it, like brings inspiration to me, brings value.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, just like these like little frill marketing things of, yeah, handing out free bandanas or fanny packs or stickers or whatever that people are like psyched on because they're free but they're never actually going to use and you still have to pay for them, and I think that also goes like I mean, this is like a different kind of a different uh discussion point, but like, uh, in the same vein of marketing just leading to higher prices is like so much of marketing goes outside of the sport of trail running.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Like when you buy meta ads or google ads or whatever like that when a company buys meta ads or google ads, they have to pay for those ads and those ad payments come out of just making the product more expensive.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and then that like all that money goes to meta or Google, who doesn't care about trail running, and like it doesn't stay in the sport, and I just think there's like so many aspects of marketing that have become like a status quo of how you're supposed to do business but that don't do anything to provide value to like the customer or honestly to the business, because they're just like sure they might make more money by selling more shorts via these ads, but they also have to spend money to buy the ads or whatever.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Do these marketing things, whether it's giving away free stuff or whatever it is.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I this is.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to put this one back on you, cause I'm very interested in to hear the way you think, because one of the things I thought was very interesting so far from a brand perspective with Terragnoda is you tell a really solid story and, like the website is aesthetically pleasing, it tells it's simple, it's it displays the products in a very simple way, tells the story and then on top of that, your Instagram story or your Instagram, like you have this like really awesome reel of just like hey, I don't want to live, what is it?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I don't want to live in this trailer or something like that.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Like I just want to make this simple.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want shit to be too expensive.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Like, check out Tarik Noda.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I guess that's the cliff notes of it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just would be curious to see, like, what is marketing to you or what is marketing to you to Tarik Noda.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Like what are your thoughts on that?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like all those things are just my life, like it's not.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's marketing, because it's like you know, I am trying to tell the story of tarot note and why it exists and why I think it is a valuable business to exist in the trail running space.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But it's like the truth, like yeah, I have, uh, I like, going back to what I said before, like I've spent so much money on trail running, like, and I'm not, I'm not I don't want to sound like I am like this, like it's all been my own decision, like I have, I love trail running and I'm like happy to spend money on it.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: But but, uh, yeah, I mean it's like it's true, like I could have I just spent I don't know, 400 at the feet or whatever, and that could have paid for half a month's rent in like a real house which would be nice at some point to live in.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: And like the simplicity of the website comes from me.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Just you know, like I just made that website by myself.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I can't put, I'm not a website designer, I don't know how to do the cool complex things or whatever Like, but it like it, just it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Just it's like they're out of necessity and yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's authentic, dude, I mean it's 100% you.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It seems like, and it's just very, very straightforward the point, very authentic.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: It's nothing fancy like dude.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I had uh, I'm sure you know who kyle siegel is, who's the founder of raid research.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, like he paid some guy in india like five grand to like do his website form, which he said on the podcast.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So it's not like, it's yeah, it's like, but like paid some guy in india to do his fancy website for him.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, it's really cool, but like the sweat equity into just doing it, building it yourself, and like having your own thing behind it is is, you know, just as noble and it tells just as noble of a story yeah, and I, I think I mean honestly paying five grand for websites, like quite cheap, yeah, and like the big scheme of things, um.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I totally agree and I think, like I hope, that sure, I'm gonna have to do some marketing at some point and keep making Instagram reels or whatever, but I hope that the product is good enough and brings enough value, in a sense, to sell itself.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: If you make a good product, you shouldn't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars just to sell that product.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I hope, I hope that like people are psyched on it, people uh, tell their friends about it and just like, yeah, 29 bucks for a pair of shorts, like $22 for a t-shirt?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me where you could For a high quality running t-shirt.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Dude, that's impossible to find.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: What was that like having, especially with your background?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I know you had said you'd worked for a brand in the past from a sourcing perspective.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I've talked to a lot of founders in one space or another and they always tell a really interesting story about the supply chain and finding the sourcing.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Um, is it just like reaching out to like a supplier in china to be able to build, like make it for you, and then like giving them design?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Is it like that simple or how does that work?
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean, honestly, it is pretty simple.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I think people think it's like yeah, it's, it's quite simple.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Um, I did, yeah for my, for my.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I worked for n Nash Kiteboarding and I did spend quite a bit of time in China, in Shenzhen, working like at the factories, getting things into production and things.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know just the language you have to use, like I don't speak Chinese, obviously, but I learned like the language and communication style you have to use to communicate clearly with them, and I think that's like the biggest hurdle is just like learning how to get your message across clearly with the language barrier.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Clearly with the language barrier, because I mean all the factors that you work with.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Have someone who speaks english, okay, um, but just okay, like there's still so much that's lost in translation, and so if you're, if you, if you're not like super dialed on what you want, how you want it made, and like provide just the right amount of information to to them, um, and also are just like really patient with them, um, yeah, then then it's hard.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I, I for, for Terragnota specifically like yeah, I just reached out to like 20 factories and like got a ton of samples sent to me and just like looked over the samples, saw what the build quality was like.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Um and another.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Another way I like judge suppliers is by their communication skills, because if I, if I like can't communicate with somebody quickly and clearly like there's not, even if they make good product, there's not a good, there's no point in pursuing that Um.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it like it's super simple If you want something made in China, you can get it made in China and it's like it's so fun honestly, like like just the possibility, the possibilities that exist there are insane.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Like I think there's a bad, bad rap that gets thrown around about made in China and like, sure, there's like tons of junk that's made in China that we don't need, but it doesn't matter, that's made in China, it's just junk anyway.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, there's tons of junk that we don't need generally, but uh, yeah, I love working with uh suppliers and manufacturers in china.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It seems like the world is your oyster and you can like literally do whatever you want and like have an idea and get it made, get a sample of it so fast so you've had, you had the idea to start this for a while.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see when you were like, okay, you decided, all right, I'm a hundred percent going to do this.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And what was that process like, from deciding one morning or whenever you decided I'm going to do this, to where we're at right now how, how long has that been?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: And like, how difficult was that process for you?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: yeah, um, I mean, I like, uh, where do I start with this one?
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I have been like having this idea in my head of like making making an outdoor brand for years and years, um, uh, but it's just never.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we all have tons of ideas and they just never happened.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Um, and then when the yeah, like the, so the story of the sock was, I don't know, in like last early summer of 2024, um, and that's when I started like reaching out to factories getting samples of the socks, um, and just like seeing if it was possible to work.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like playing around really, and like, cause I wanted to cheap fun sock and I love design things.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So I was, yeah, just having a good time doing that, and then I went.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: So then I ran CCC in Chimney at the in like August of 20, at the end of august of 2024, um, and while I was in chamonix for a couple weeks before the race, I like had a bunch of downtime because I, yeah, you're like tapering and it honestly kind of sucks to be in chamonix when you're tapering.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But, uh, I filled my time with um making a website.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Uh, just like, I still didn't.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I still like wasn't like totally in um, on like launching this thing, but I was just like, well, I'll make a website, so you, I don't know just see what it just go a little farther.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Um, and I like, uh, had the name from a previous project that I did, getting like I made I got this bike that I sourced in China and anyway, I had a name from that.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Um, and so my, my race, my ccc, didn't go super well.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and after after the race, I was sitting down with ryan thrower at a bar and we're having a beer.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I honestly, I didn't know, have a beer with.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like didn't know ryan super well, but he's I don't know Ryan it's a good person to have a beer with.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like didn't know Ryan super well, but he's I don't know, he's just like a guy that you feel like you can share things with, I guess.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, I don't think he knows this, but he was the first person that I like told the idea of Tara noted to.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: That was not like a really close friend or family or whatever.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he like he was just like asking me what was good.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what he asked me.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: He's just like asked me what he was getting me excited or what was I working on these days?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Um, and I like sheepishly told him about my Terragnota idea and he was like so psyched on it and so supportive and just like, dude, you got to do that.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that was like kind of the moment.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I was like Ryan Thrower thinks this is a good idea.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Like fuck it.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Like I should just, yeah, let's do it.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I should just, yeah, let's do it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and it was after a bad race at CCC where I was like well, my hopes and dreams of being this professional, sponsored athlete who gets paid money to do this is not going anywhere, and it hasn't been going anywhere for a long time, and, yeah, it's just like well, what do I have to lose?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Let's give it a shot.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Dude, I love that I did.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy that, like ryan thrower is so intricate to this, to this thing, like that's crazy, because, and for people that don't know.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Like, ryan thrower is the co-founder of free trail with dylan, and look at what they've been able to build, which has been crazy.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, if he thinks it's a good idea, it's a good idea, yeah yeah, and I mean it was.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: It was like just just like the having the conversation with like somebody, like just talking about it openly with somebody, um, who was in who's like in the trail learning world and and also it was just like so supportive and like psyched, and yeah it was.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: It was like a great.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: A great, the great.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It was like the bump I needed to get to get going and like really really go for it where did the name come from?
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I know you kind of just mentioned something with a bike in china, yeah well.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So, uh, when I was recovering from my Achilles injury, I like got super into biking and gravel biking specifically, um, and I had a, yeah, like a entry-level Canyon gravel bike, um, but I wanted something better, lighter, faster, but I I mean it's kind of the same thing as, like, what Terragnoda is now I wanted a bike that could perform better.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I wanted a carbon bike and all the things electronic shifting, everything but I didn't want to spend 10 grand on that.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: So I reached out to a couple suppliers in China and actually got actually got.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I got two different bikes.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I like put together two from bikes and got some sweet carbon wheels and everything, and but I needed, like I want it.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I wanted to put a name on the bike, like I didn't.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I wanted to like look like a real bike, not just like some black carbon frame.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: So, uh, oh, and also I was having a friend uh conversation with my friend, nick benzer, who had also done the same thing, getting a carbon frame sourced in china, and he was like, yeah, it was sick, but then I could never sell the bike because nobody wants like a no-name bike, uh, made in china, because they're, like you know, questioning the quality of it and so I was like, well, what if I just like made up a cool name and like put it on the frame?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So people thought it was like a cool bike.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So I was like, so I made up a name called taragnota and like put it on the, uh, yeah that's crazy, sent it to the factory and and put it on there and um, yeah, terra ignota it comes from.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I I had this like whole list brainstorming names and, uh, terra ignota comes from the.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not a, I'm not a pro in latin, but terra ignota comes from the latin words terra and ignota, which means land unknown.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and I just smushed them together and that's how the name came about.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Um, I thought it was also like kind of fitting um taragnoda, meaning land unknown, as I was, like you know, like in an unknown place for myself at the time, coming coming back from like this big injury and unsure if I was like gonna be able to run again and my life had been like blown up in a way, and so I was like I was in a very unknown space.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Um, so if at the time and then I didn't want to think up another name, so I just used that for this dude.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: That's, I keep, I think, just the creativity coming up with the name alone.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: It's bananas.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: That's really good.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: You think like a mountain name or something like that.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: You brainstorm a million times.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I would have never gotten that in a million years.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: That's creative.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about, because I've heard rumblings of some of the creative things that you've done?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Was it woodworking or something like that?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Like you have a strong background in creativity, correct?
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: So, um, the last before I started this, last three or four years, I had a business called Roostworks which, um, yeah, I built tiny homes for people and did a bunch of fine woodworking and also made, um, made some race medals for people or for races I guess, mostly schema races Um, yeah, so I and I like grew up just I grew up just loving to build things.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Um, I've always just didn't really matter what it was, but I grew up building go-karts and, uh, dune buggies and stuff, um, and working, yeah, just working on engines.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Um, so I've always loved to like, yeah, tinker and build, um, and so, uh, yeah, after I, after I left nash kiteboarding, I started this company, roostworks, which was also just a one-man show in a old cow barn in trout lake, washington, where I lived before, um, building tiny homes and screwing around with wood.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: So so, yeah, that's great.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Well, it's, it's very obvious, both through conversation and both, like I said, website and and a lot of the like, even in the design of the apparel that you have, like it's not to quote Don Draper, but it's simple yet significant, right, like I love that.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So you could see, like the creativity from you kind of come through in that, which is very unique.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: What do you think about managing a business like this, Because obviously it's different than a woodworking business or other types of businesses.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Do you like it?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could be candid, you could tell me what you think so far.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious to see what it's like to start something like that, because I could tell you from like a podcast perspective, like that's a difficult business to do and just like what you're doing, that is not an easy business to do.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, I mean I love it.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like of course it's like very stressful and overwhelming at times, but uh, it just feels like a super fun puzzle to put together and like obviously I love the designing gear part of it and like getting to getting to make apparel and then like go run in it myself and like that's super cool and very fulfilling.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Um, but like in the, in the, in the reality of it, there's that's like such a small part of it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, uh, a lot of it is like or a lot of the things that are stressing me out right now are like figuring out how to finance inventory that, like you know, I have to pay for now, that will be here in three months, which I can start selling.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Then that uh, yeah, that I won't like recoup the costs of for like probably six months.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean obviously I don't have a ton of money.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Um, so that that's.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like stressful but also like a fun.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like stressful but also like a fun, yeah, puzzle to figure out.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, right now my solution to that is like get a bunch of new credit cards that don't have that have like 0% introductory APRs until sometime in 2026 and like just hope that I'll have the money by then.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Get some good points out of it, yeah.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Another thing is like um sizing.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Like sizing the clothes has been like a bane of my existence recently and like I know that a lot of people who have ordered know that too, obviously, because I've been dealing with a ton of um, yeah, just exchanges and like uh, specifically with like the women's shorts, like yeah, I, I screwed up sizing on those um and so, yeah, just uh, that's been super stressful but also also a fun, yeah thing to figure out and improve on for the next batch um, getting like shipping and fulfillment like dialed in and making the process of that smooth is like it's all just like these little challenges of in different subjects that are like subjects, that are like fun projects to like figure out and um it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I think also part of the part of it is like it's just me right now um, like I'm not.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I don't have anybody working with me so it it still doesn't feel like super official.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, mean, I know it's like I've sold a lot of stuff and spending a lot of money and like I have a lot of things.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I have like everything into it, but it still just feels like a fun puzzle to figure out.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Um, so, while there's been like, yeah, obviously very stressful and overwhelming moments, I uh, overall I'm loving it and I also just want to say like they're like with the sizing thing specifically, I I had like I had like a mental breakdown when the shorts came in and I like realized they were smaller than smaller than uh, I had specified with the factory but and I was like, oh my god, this is over.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Like I just waste all this money.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Everybody's going to yell at me, whatever.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, just like had all the bad thoughts, but I was like, well, I guess I'll just like keep on going and see what happens, ship them out and um, yeah, and just like having that thought of like all the bad things.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And then the reality of it is like everybody is so like patient and understanding and like realizes like I'm trying to do something that I think is cool and I hope they think are cool too, and so they've like given me so much leeway and like obviously I've, yeah, made it, made it right with every one of them either exchanging shorts or whatever.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: But, um, like, instead of people yelling at me, it's actually like I just get to have like a fun conversation with like 200 people on the internet like who are psyched on what I'm trying to have like a fun conversation with like 200 people on the internet like who are psyched on what I'm trying to do with Terranota, and it's like it's pretty cool.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: So, dude, I love it, and the best thing about it for me to hear is that, like, yes, it's challenging, yes, there are really hard times, but like you're basically getting an MBA just by like figuring shit out, like that's basically all the important aspects of getting the MBA, like that's basically all the important aspects of getting the MBA, like that that's what you're doing right now.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And like learning how to run a business and learning how to deal with customers and all of these issues.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And like you're staying in the course.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Like the beautiful thing that I hear is like you're staying in the course because it will work, because it has to, and that's the way it'll be.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like one of those things yeah, I love to hear that you're having fun with it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: And like, oh, man, the and it's like I don't know.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: One of the things I love to hear so much, too, is like you're going to have these extreme downs and then like, when you hit these big ups, they feel so much better, like it's such more of a dopamine hit when you start to get things to click.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, it's so cool.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: It's cool to see you know, you kind of figuring out in real time too, which might be a little stressful for you, but it's, it's fun, you know, and I think I think, like the downs, the extreme downs are, like so often, not actually real extreme downs.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: They're just like these extreme downs that we make up in our own heads of like projecting the future onto ourselves now instead of just like this happened, this is how it is.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna like take another step and like hopefully the world doesn't collapse or whatever.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Like I think the extreme downs are, like so often, self self-imposed extreme downs yeah, well, dude, you're an athlete.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: We're used to doing things at such a high level yeah, exactly, yeah that like it gets, like you want perfection in it and like it's never going to be perfection as much as we want it to be.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: You know it's.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It's a tricky thing.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I can speak so like, so much the same to that, because you want something to be so perfect and so dialed and, yeah, getting it there is interesting, and then you're hard on yourself if it's not.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: You know the way you want it to be or as perfected as it was, but you'll also see it grow over time, which is cool.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah it's, it's uh, it's cool.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Man, I honestly I wish you the absolute best of luck in this endeavor.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Like this is such a cool thing to watch, like from the outside, as you build it.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Um, do you think we hit everything with Taragnona?
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Cause?
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I want to start telling your story a little bit, a little bit more.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, yeah, I mean there's obviously we'll, we'll, we'll be more in the future, but yeah, I mean I think that was a great introduction to Taragnona.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and, like I said, I'll put it in the show notes so people can tug all on over.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, one more question when you it kind of started with socks and it's more of those, why stop there?
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: You've got like a pretty much a full kit now for for you know, for the runner.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Um, what was the idea?
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Inspiration to just go like let me do the full kit.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Was that the idea from inception?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Or like, where did that one come from?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: yeah, um, I mean, it started the sock, it started with the socks and while socks are an important piece of the kit, they're not the most fun or glamorous or visual piece.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really, I just wanted to design more things.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I'm constantly thinking of the next thing I can design, whether it will ever come out in tarot or whatever I like.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Just love, yeah, thinking up ideas until, like I didn't want to just um, do a sock and be done and be like, oh, this is a sock, like whether or not I started Terragonota, like I would have.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I wanted to like, oh, can I make some shorts, though can I make like a nice shirt?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Like I just like love experimenting with designing and building things and getting things made and uh, so, yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess the answer to that question is just like I didn't want to stop and so I needed something else to do.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: One last thing before we pivot to you if you do do any pieces of gear, can you please do like a sub ultra, like we need a sub ultra belt, somebody needs to do it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: But like for a, what do you mean?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: The shorts are a perfect sub ultra.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, they, they count.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: But like I don't know, I haven't tried the shorts yet, so I'll be able to speak to it after I try them I think, because honestly I think, like I've never tried the, I've never tried the red belt I know you had kyle on, but, um, it's too big too bulky for like a for sub.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah but maybe like that would be like an ultra belt and the shorts would be like the sub ultra belt or something I could see that I like that idea.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know it like to.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know there's something like for the detachable, but the shorts do work too, and you can kind of fit the uh, you know something to where there's no balance and kind of tie them tight.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Well, just try them out.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: You're gonna try them, I'm gonna try them yeah, all right, so let's pivot to you.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Um, you need very little introduction.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like you've been in the sport a long time.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: You are a great competitor, you've got a lot of accolades to your name.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: You've done a ton.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious to like kind of wind back the clock a little bit.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I want to see, like, what your relationship with running is Like.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: When did you, did you do it from a young age, running, cross country and track, like like what's your, what's your background in the sport?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: like, what's your, what's your background in the sport?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I like, uh, I ran.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I get growing up, I played, yeah, all the sports in in school.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Um, we, I went to a super small school.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: It was like, uh, it was 100 and 100 and I don't know 50 people at the time, k through 12.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Um, so super small school.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: So you had to, you had to play all the sports or we wouldn't have enough people to play the sports.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Um, so I played soccer and basketball and ran track in high school.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Um, and, yeah, I, I don't think it gets.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think, uh, I've ever given him credit for getting me into ultra running, but I think, well, my brother and I were, uh, when we were little, we had a babysitter named tim dearden and anyway, when, when we, yeah, got out of the baby needing a babysitting age and um and um, yeah, anyway, tim Tim Dearden like took us out on uh longer runs like once every once a week or once every couple of weeks, and like he was the first person who like took me around Matt Adams, and, yeah, my brother and I would like always most of my brother, but my brother and I would always like just complain and like, yeah, be like like this is terrible.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Why are we doing this kind of thing, I mean?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: But we always liked it.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Obviously because we like chose to go.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, tim tim dearden like got us running further on trails and like doing more, yeah, around the mountain kind of things, um, in I don't know, middle school, maybe in in high school, for sure, um, and yeah, that's kind of like the very beginnings of it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And then in college I didn't run track or cross country or anything in college, but I did.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I just like ran a lot for fun for me and to explore places around where I was going to school in San Luis Obispo, yeah.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: And also in college I did my first ultra as well.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: My mom is a big ultra runner, she's done like a bazillion ultras and I was like, well, my mom can run a 50k, like I think I can run a 50k too.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: So my first ultra I did, yeah, sometime my freshman year of college or something.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, that's kind of where it started dude.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: That's a cool story, man.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I it's interesting to hear how.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I always love hearing how people got into the sport and what got them excited.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: It's crazy that in college you found it Cause like what are you?
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: You're late twenties, right now, yeah, I'm 29, 29.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: So it's been a few years since you've gotten into your first race.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: You've been in sport a while, dude.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: What was it like?
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Um, because I know you dabbled you do both sub ultra and ultra last year.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Um, I'm trying to think, like, where I want to go, like at what point in time did you get serious about it?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Where you're like yeah, this is pre-solomon.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Like when you were like wanted to go get sponsored, like yeah, I think that my, my, uh, my running my ultra career, quote-unquote has been in like two parts really because, like at the beginning, when I, yeah, when I was, like, um, my first year in college, I was, so, I did my first ultra when I was probably like 17 or 18.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Though from there to like I don't know, 22 or something, it was just more to finish the race, um, and like see if I could run 100 miles.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Um, just like see if I, yeah, see if it was even possible.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, so, like my first, my first life in ultra was just like finishing the race, um, and I like, yeah, did the typical 50k, 50 mile, 100k, 100 mile, build growth, um, I haven't done 100 miles since then, but, um, then it's hard.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I can't remember the timeline exactly, but I think it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: I think it was after college, um, I can't remember the timeline exactly, but I think it.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I think it was after college, um, or one of the summers, late college, that I like learned about FKTs.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Um, and like, yeah, when I learned about FKTs, it was like the start of my second life in ultra, which was like trying to be more competitive and seeing what I could actually do, and I like actually training for things.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so like, my first foray into like, into like competitive running was like trying to get the Mount Adams FKT, which was, which not Adams is like, or Mount Adams is right next to trout Lake, where I grew up and um lived after college for a little while.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, that was like first time I really wanted to be competitive at running or mountain Not that you run up, not Adams, but yeah.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, the dichotomy too.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: The sections and stages of your career, that's cool.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: What was it like for you, cause, when you were with Solomon?
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Like, you did a lot of stuff, like you went to what did you?
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: You destroyed the course record of volcanic.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: You went and had a great race at Mount marathon.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Um, like, what was that period of life, like, like, like for you in your life?
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: How was that?
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was only a year that I was with Solomon.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Um, I had like I ran in Solomon gear.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: My bad yeah.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter, my, I ran in, I have.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I ran in Solomon like my entire life.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Just cause that's.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I just, like you know, started running in Solomon's and I like like the shoes.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: So I was like, why would I switch?
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And I always thought Solomon made it interesting shoes that worked for me.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: So I had run in Solomon forever.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I was only.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I was sponsored by them for a year, um, as as an athlete, um, but just just with, I just got gear from them.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I just got a gear, stipend or whatever from them.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't get travel budget or or, uh, I didn't get paid at all.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: And I thought like I, I accepted, I like thought that I was like worth more than a year stipend or whatever like definitely, definitely are, when I signed the deal, or yeah, when I signed the contract for a year and I was like, but you know what I like I got nobody really knows who I am.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: I gotta like get my foot in.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, but you know what I like I got nobody really knows who I am.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I gotta like get my foot in the door and, like you know, make some relationships or whatever.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Until I was like fine with that.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Um, I thought it'd be like a, yeah, just like a good entry into the professional running world.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, I thought I had a good year.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I did those things you listed and I got second at Puerto Vallarta Puerto Vallarta, a hundred K by UTMB.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't know, I did some FKTs and yeah, I like thought I put together a pretty good year.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Um, and I like thought I put together a pretty good year.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Um and and um, yeah, at the end of the, at the end of that year, like I mean I think this is like a very common thread with people trying to get sponsored or professional athletes now that it's like communication, communication with brands is like and maybe some more than others is like infuriating, and so like at the end of the end of I don't know what that year was 2022 or yeah.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, I was like trying to talk with solomon about, like, yeah, having another contract, and like getting paid and um, but like I couldn't even talk to them, like, uh, just couldn't even get in touch, um, and so like, uh, the and like, but I figured that I would like get another contract, so I like didn't pursue other brands or whatever, um, and like, the end of the year rolls around and the team manager at the time, uh, staff, right.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh sorry, it's fine, it doesn't matter.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Um, she, uh, it was like she like offered me a contract for the next year, which was the was like.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: She like offered me a contract for the next year, which was the.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: It was the same exact deal as like five grand of gear, zero travel, zero pay, but also like, instead of like being titled as an athlete, I would be titled as an ambassador, which I, like this just felt wrong and like terrible.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Um, so I was like, well, I guess not doing that.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Um, but it had like it was like too late to, yeah, do anything else.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think really that that year, just like it just like made me see the realities of like trying to become a professional trail runner.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Like I think it's more of a pipe dream than a real thing.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know like maybe now, yeah, more people are making a bit more money, um, but and I I hope that's going in the right direction um, yeah, it really jaded.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: It really jaded my idea of like, or like dream of trying to become a professional trail runner, um, and and so, yeah, it, it seemed, the year seemed, uh, it was cool to like, I don't know, get an inside, look, meet some cool people, but yeah, oh, it's interesting.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I, I and I think you weren't the only one that year.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: 22.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: You weren't the only one affected by that where they moved people down, Like there was quite a few athletes that they did.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they really shrunk their athlete team.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: And then this past year there was a full-on purge.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: They got rid of everybody.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I can't speak to what goes on internally there.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I really have no idea.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: There's no reason to say anything negatively there.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: It is interesting to get the inside look, and how different brands do are different.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: But like the common thread here I think the conversation is too is like you've had all these amazing finishes, you're a phenomenal athlete, now you're building something, but like it doesn't.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: You're not defined in any way by whether or not you're with a brand or not.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: It's just it's and I think people miss this misconception or get this misconception where it's like, oh well, if you're sponsored, it's a defining thing.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: No, it's just like a big help to be able to have the resources, gear wise and travel wise, to be able to go do the races and do the things you want to do.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Right, like that's.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: That's the.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like the like a big thing for me would have been just like I wouldn't have had to been so stressed financially like in the rest of my life if I didn't, if I could have like not even made money from trail running, but just like not spent a ton of money on trail running.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that would have been, yeah, just like a big help, but also I don't, I don't, I don't have any like yeah, negative, obviously.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Like at the time I was like kind of yeah, just like a big help, but also I don't, I don't, I don't have any like uh, yeah, negative Obviously.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Like at the time I was like kind of annoyed um with Solomon and the team manager, but like I, yeah, I totally understand it's like just a business, um, and like I personally was like I don't even know what, like I don't know if I sold any Solomon shoes, Like why would they pay me anyway?
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I know, anyway, I know it's just like just a business and like the team manager only has so many resources she can work with.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: So like yeah, no hard feelings, but definitely left me with a little like weird taste for professional trail running.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no for sure, and I think these conversations are very important to have and the reason I say that is because I get reached out to a lot by whether it's friends at the podcast and a lot of younger folks ask me questions on, like well, advice for this and advice for that.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: And it's like you have to be prepared to have those conversations because there's a lot of stories out there from people with far more experience like you who have far more experience than a lot of these young whippersnappers coming up and can actually like be able to provide advice for athletes coming up in the space, Right, you know, like things like that.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: I think those are good conversations to have and they're healthy too.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Like everybody thinks it's this darling thing and in some cases it really is like it's a beautiful thing, but in some cases like both sides of the story, I think need to be told to understand it.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's, and everybody has their own journey.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: You know like now you can rock tarot.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: no data race and it's like, yeah, I can just be sponsored by myself.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly, Dude, I've thought long about that.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Like I want to get like start getting some like pod sponsored, like uh, like racing gear, like to uh to just rep, rep that brand.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I think it'd be kind of fun, you know, as you kind of grow your own brand in the sport.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: So, um, let's talk, not to do double negative here, but like, let's talk Achilles.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Um, I know you had a.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Really you're like the only trail runner I know that has torn an Achilles tendon and you did it in a pretty, pretty nasty way.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: You were playing basketball, right, If I remember correctly.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Um, talk about that experience, dude, and like cause, you came back and like you're still an amazing athlete.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Like you, you didn't seem like you missed a step.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, you took fourth last year.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Uh, at what was it?
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: The Y East trail, fast 28 K, which was pretty competitive.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Like you're still.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: You know you didn't really slow down.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Like you're able to come back at a solid level.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: So talk to talk about that.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like you say that and thank you for saying that, Um, but it does feel like.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: It does feel like I'm like, uh, it, it feels like my, it feels like I'm a different person than pre pre Achilles which I don't know, maybe weird, but I mean both like, yeah, I feel fit right now, but, um, just not at all in the same way I did before.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Um, anyway, so, I guess, going yeah, like I was, it was it was fall of 2023, I was signed up for ccc and like again, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to ccc, I'm gonna like do super well, get sponsored, make it big, yada, yada, yeah, um, and a couple weeks before ccc, I was up in like the North Cascades doing, yeah, a bunch of big days, some super just like fun, adventuring, um, and there was a trout Lake fair three on three basketball tournament that, uh, I was doing with my brother and another guy.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: So I like came, it was on Friday and so I came back like 4 PM on Friday and got back to trout Lake and the basketball tournament was a few hours later.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we did that, we played a ton of games and then like, uh, one of the last games.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I was just like not doing anything cool, just like driving to the hoop and like fell down and like thought somebody had tripped me and like I like look back at my brother, I was like dude who tripped me.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: He's like dude.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: You just fell down and uh, yeah, and I like immediately knew what it was like I reached, like grabbed my ankle and like completely soft on the back of it, oh, and just like like it didn't hurt I mean, later it hurt, but at that point it didn't hurt um, uh, but just like this flood of yeah again, like projecting the future onto myself right then, like this flood of everything that this was going to entail to like ever run again, was like devastating.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Um, and I just like had my brother and another guy like walk me out of the court thingy without saying much and got in the car and made it to the hospital somehow.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, I got a ride eventually, but uh, yeah, and then, um, fortunately, my, my uncle, is an orthopedic surgeon.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Is that the right term Knee surgeon?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: He's a knee surgeon and does Achilles and stuff as well at the Stone Clinic in San Francisco.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I flew down there a couple of days later and he stitched it back together and stayed there for a couple weeks doing, yeah, pt and stuff, um, yeah, but I like got back on.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I was like on a bike the day after surgery, not like an indoor stationary bike with one leg not my achilles leg but like um, just like immediately trying to do everything I could to get back to running someday.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like the.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: I guess the thing like I would want to say about injury is like the Achilles injury was like it was bad and yeah, I hope nobody ruptures their Achilles.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: But the thing that was the hardest for me was like after, after like the initial trauma of it and after like being in this like intensive, like I stayed with my aunt and uncle in San Francisco for a couple of weeks and like went to PT every day and for, yeah, I think it was two weeks, um, and after being like this initial intensive recovery phase, like I still had I don't know three months where I couldn't walk, um, and like my life and like also, I couldn't work, like I was building tiny homes at the time, um, and so like, yeah, couldn't work, couldn't walk, everything was really hard, like making food was incredibly hard and um, but like I had passed that initial trauma stage where people are like worried about you, uh, or like it's like in their minds still worried about you, uh, or like it's like in their minds still, um, and so, yeah, I think the hardest part about injury is like this part after the initial phase where you still have like a ton of recovery to do and you're not the person that you like were, or I mean, you're still a person you were want to be, but you're not like the physical person you were want to be in like so limited for so long.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: But like it's so easy for everybody else to just like forget about it, and which is totally fair.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Everybody has their own life going on.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: But like, for me, the hardest part of recovery was like getting through this like long empty phase of where I like couldn't do anything.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: I like couldn't.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: I mean I still like saw friends once in a while but didn't see many people because like, yeah, the most, the way I socialized most was like going with a run, going out for a run or doing some activity.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Um so yeah, like that was for sure, the hardest part of my Achilles injury was just like mental health man yeah.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Um, um, yeah, I don't really know where to go from there, but yeah, no, I'll take it from from you, like I I could imagine and you don't want you can be as candid as you want with this one but like, just like the suffering, like I don't know.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: So, first of all, like you were an athlete at an extremely high level, so there's the death of that and not knowing if you'll ever be the same again.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Then it's just the day to day, which has got to be horrible because you can't even you know it's, it's, it's gotta be a pain in the ass to even take a shower, let alone make lunch, you know.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: And then like, yeah, like you said, like there's, you're kind of alone, where, yeah, people stop checking in on you.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: It's kind of just, you can't work, you can't do this.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Like, can you just be a little like, explain more on, like what that does to your mental health?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Like what were you doing to stay positive at that time?
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean like the.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: The thing that like saved me kind of was this sounds really weird, but the thing that saved me was like a swift um, uh, and just like being able to bike, um, and like get or not like bike outside, but like being able even just like with one leg, one leg propped up on a chair and like get, like this, like energy, but also just like rage and anger, like out at something like having a release for that, which ended up being swift, um, uh, was like, uh, like, uh, yeah, was like a very, very essential thing for me.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, but I think it like I don't it's hard because I don't, I don't like, I don't like blame anyone.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: I guess I should go back, like for like three, three months.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: I just like I, you just like feel alone.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: You just like feel very, very alone and like you might never, uh, you might never like re-enter this like community that you were in or this like life that you had and there's like so much uncertainty there and you like feel alone about you.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Feel alone because you are alone, like I was just like in my little.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: I was like renting this little corner apartment in a barn, um, and it was like I don't know what 16 by 16 foot space and like then I had my bike like set right outside the door and like that was my whole little world and like, yeah, you're just like uh, and I don't like blame anybody for like not checking in or like coming by and hanging out because I was like boring, like couldn't do do anything.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: But I think the experience like did make or I hope at least it made me more like empathetic to like the boring part of injuries, which are like usually the hardest part of injuries, and like hope that I and hopefully other people can yeah just like keep supporting friends who like are in the boring part of injuries that are like so mentally difficult because like your life is just like thrown upside down and but it's like not exciting or yeah.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, dude, I appreciate you for being open about it and being candid, because it's a difficult, obviously an extremely difficult period of time in your life, you know, and to be in the other side of it Now, those reflections I think a lot of people can.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know it's uplifting and I think a lot of people could take something away from that, especially those listening to this that you know might be going through their own thing with injury and, and you know, to know that, like yours, was relatively catastrophic from a Achilles perspective, and then to be on the other side of it and still compete, you know and be, you, know you and be.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Who knows, you might be better than you were before, dude.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll find out.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, but I just think it's amazing to hear that story.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, One of the things I'm curious about is you did come back, You're back now and, like I said, last season 2024, was a really solid one for you.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Um, you did, you know pretty damn well at everything you touched.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Obviously, CCC was a little bit of a different conversation, but like what?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Uh, at least on the sub ultra space I could speak for you said you mentioned.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not the same, or I don't feel the same.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Can you, can you get dig into that a little bit more?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Because like paper you had a great result dig into that a little bit more because, like paper, you had a great result.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I like, um, I mean one like.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Is it physically?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like for like very, very balanced, still on my uh left leg, which is what the one I tore my achilles on like, um, it sounds crazy but I like can barely do a single-legged calf raise on my left leg.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: Still, um, like, I can get my heel off the ground like an inch, um, and that's about it, um and uh, yeah, so, like, physically, I still have a lot of work to do and it's like I hope my calf muscle will come back someday.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: It's still yet to find out and I think more so it's like mentally I feel like it doesn't.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I just don't feel as like carefree or like loose when I'm running, especially technical terrain.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: The thought of jumping off something sounds crazy to me right now.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it like, uh, like I use, like I used to play soccer and basketball a ton, even after, like I would after, like in my adult life.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, and like like cutting on a field sounds crazy right now, cause it's like, uh, just that motion, and I mean I broke my ankle doing that, so I feel your pain.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, uh, yeah, just like mentally I'm not as as like loose, I guess.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Uh, so it, and like I hope my fitness is there and like I did have some okay results last year, I uh and I like feel fit.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I still like it's just hard for me to like I guess it's more hard for me to just believe, like believe that my fitness is as good as it once was, like believe that my fitness is as good as it once was.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and I like haven't proved that to myself that it is.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think like it just will take me a long time to like accept that I am fit again and like can compete at a high level again.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I don't know, I think it's.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: The hardest part is just like letting yourself believe that you're like back but do you think I don't know if you've thought deeply into this, but like, at what point do you think you'll be convinced?
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: do you know it's hard, that's a difficult one, right, if I like do something I have never done before, or like one of the things I was thinking about is like I should try, like I should like go for a I don't know an FKT that I have done before or something, and like see where I stack up, or like do a race I've done before and like see see how I am.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: But it's also like so I mean, it's just so difficult to compare year to year and times, times to time.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, I'm also like nervous to like go after an fkt I've done before because like what if I'm not?
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: You know what, if I like I'm like way slower, I'm gonna be like really sad about it.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a hard thought, man.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, joe gray always says the same thing about looking the man in the mirror and it's a terrifying thought to me, like you gotta look the man in the mirror and sometimes prove them wrong, and it's like, woo, you know.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: And it's like that, prove yourself something you know.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: And it's like, hey, what's what happens if you're not as fast?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Like dude, you still compete at a great level, like whether you, whether you, whether you beat yourself, or you know, or you go beat others, like at the end the day, like one of the things I can say, cause I've stood on a start line with you before at I think it was broken arrow iron face back in the day, and that was a little more of an intimate race, cause it was me, you and Adrian Ballinger.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember that.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Um and like we bumped fists, but, dude, you were so focused.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing you on the start line and like you were just like innately focused on, on the task ahead, whereas, like I don't know, maybe I just wasn't as focused, I don't know, but I just remember that one thing about you is like you were very focused, very seemed like like I don't know, just very focused.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I think that's the best way I could describe it yeah, um, I don't know where I'm going with this, but like well, I think, like the focus is, uh, like the.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: The thing that makes me the most nervous about like trying something I've tried before is, like because I do want to be better than myself, like I whether or not, like I can go do well at a competition, if I like know that before I could I could have done better, or whatever.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Like that's a hard thing to like be fine with and like know that.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: Like hopefully I will still be improving in my fitness, like for a long, long time.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that, yeah, the thing that scares me the most is not having not like it doesn't matter if I like can't, if I like beat or don't beat these other people, if I like am not improving in myself, like that's yeah, tough, interesting.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it is, it is.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Let's move on to uh competition, because I know, um, you are on the start line for gorge waterfalls coming up in just a few, like a month and a half, two months, months, maybe a little less than that.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Are you excited, like, do you find more balance in your training now that you've got the business?
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Like does that help you kind of shift gears every now and then?
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure I wouldn't say balance is a great word for it, but it definitely makes me more appreciative of the time that I can like get out and train and like, yeah, I went for like a three hour run on saturday and it was like the first time I had like not stared at a computer screen in like a long time and like been out of this little room in a long time and just I was just like so psyched to get out.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was like muddy, raining weather but I was like so happy just to be out running and training.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and so it like definitely has me like and don't get me wrong, I love doing this business but it like has made the time that I do get to put towards running and training like so enjoyable and just like feels like a, feels like a vacation, like a.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: It feels it feels very nice.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, regarding gorge waterfalls itself, like, uh, I'm excited to race.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: Um, I don't know if I'm excited to race Gorge Waterfalls.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: I haven't had a great.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: I've done the 100K once and the 50K once and neither of them have went Well.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: The 50K was fine, but it was my first race back from Achilles, but the last time I raced the 100K it was pretty bad personally.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: So we'll see.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually have a race coming up and the second weekend of March, which is the mid South double in Oklahoma Okay, 50 K on Friday and then a hundred mile bike ride on Saturday.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm like pretty psyched about that, not like, yeah, I want to try super hard and like do my best, but uh, more, just like excited for the experience of it.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I haven't ridden my bike in a while, so excited for that dude, that's sick.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I especially, like you know, I can like speak for just the the thrill of being able to do a double like that, a 50k, a hard 50k, and then go smash yourself on the bike the day after.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: That's dope yeah that's cool.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: I wish there was more events like that.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know that existed.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oklahoma, all right hopefully it's warm too.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, we'll see.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been looking at the weather, you know we'll see nice.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: I saw you were on the start list for uh circ series crystal yeah, I thought that would be fun.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: I hope hope to see the first circ, uh, the first circ series race, and maybe in Washington.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it's like the first year, so that'd be fun.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: The circ series races have always like intrigued me, but yeah, I've never felt like going to Colorado or whatever for a 5k or 10k or whatever they are, so seems super yeah, cool to check it out.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm excited to stand on a start line with you again.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: It'll be fun like that.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: That course looks very compelling.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I've never been to crystal, I haven't really run in washington that much, so it'll be fun to get up there and see what it's all about.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see september race.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: What else do you have on the calendar, or what are you thinking about other than uh?
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: yeah, uh, the thing that's like getting me the most excited right now is like summer, summer, long days out exploring the mountains.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: Like not, I mean, yeah, I hope, like, uh, I hope to do some cool FKTs and like long link ups and whatnot this summer.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: Like I just moved to Leavenworth in October, so I haven't, yeah, and I moved here to enjoy the mountains and it's, I mean, I can enjoy the mountains too, also in winter, but I haven't really this winter.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm like really psyched to, yeah, get out and do just long days and explore in the mountains and, um, I'm also just like psyched for training.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: My, it's been feeling good and uh, made my, yeah, it's like making helping my mental state.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, so that's been nice.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, there's not a ton of like races that I am really passionate about at the moment, but just but I am still passionate about about like trying hard physically and I want to like put that effort into things that mean a lot to me, like, yeah, whether it's like a mountain fkt or like a cool new link up or whatever, but yeah, I like that and I think it's a good answer.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: Dude, one of the things I find like as like with having a podcast and also racing and then having a job, like just being busy is like you have to be very deliberate in what you do, selectories.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: You can't just pick 10 or 15 things and say I'm going to go do all this, this and that, whereas, like you wait for the fitness to see where it's at and then it's like all right, let me hop into this and, you know, see where that's at.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: Or, you know, you plan maybe, like you know a few things and fit that in.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, you have to be deliberate with it, which I find produces better results.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so well, listen, dude, we're kind of well over an hour now.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: I want to get into some ending questions, yeah, um, and I'd love to start with who inspires you that's a good question.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Um, I think there's so many people.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many people who inspire me Like in, so many people who inspire me in ways that are not like these grandiose things, but just like how they live their life, in a little minutia of life, or how they approach life.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: I should have been more prepared with this question, but off the top of my head uh, I'm gonna say that this is maybe unexpected for people who know me, but I'm gonna say my brother um inspires me, um, and definitely he doesn't inspire me in every aspect of his life, but I think his like ability to like commit, uh commit to like whatever, uh just like commit to his life and like pursue that fully, um, and his also his like commitment to community and his like ability to uh, yeah, like we all uh, when I was living in childlike, like he would always be the one to like initiate, um I don't know game nights or like have people over for dinner or whatever, and like.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know why that inspires me, but it's like.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: I like, yeah, it's a, it's a.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: His commitment to his life and his like commitment to the community is, yeah, is inspiring to me and something I like want to aspire to bring more into my own life.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, my brother, at this exact moment, is the one who's inspiring me.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: It's a good answer, man all right.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: So you're on a start line, you're getting ready to go race.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: What's the song?
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: and it's the song you're listening to I don't know if I have one particular song.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Um, I think my like pump up songs are kind of weird for pump up songs because they're all.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: I've heard some.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: I've heard some.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: Well, they're just like very mellow uh, like Tom Rosenthal will for sure be like if I just put Tom Rosenthal on, like he has like 10,000 songs out, and if I just put him on shuffle, like I just get like happy and psyched.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: So anytime I'm like running and I just need to like check out for a little while and get in a better mood, I just put Tom Rosenthal on shuffle and like I feel better.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm just going to say literally any one of Tom Rosenthal's songs.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: I like that, tom Rosenthal.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever listened to Tom Rosenthal.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, put him on and you're going to feel better about yourself.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: I like, as soon as we get off this call, I'm putting them on.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Um, all right.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: So I usually ask a goofy question at the end, something around Bigfoot, uh, aliens or AI.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: Because you're a Pacific Northwest guy, I got to ask you the Bigfoot question.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: All right, do you believe in Bigfoot?
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: Do I believe in Bigfoot?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Um, no, but I do like the idea of Bigfoot and I like the idea of there being more things out there, and I also just like the idea of like you know, going and walking around the woods and like maybe you will find Bigfoot, because you never know until you know, and like I don't know, so do I think Bigfoot exists?
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: No, but I'm stoked to keep the myth alive.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, dude, the PNW is a big place, like you never know.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: Big woods, yeah you never know, and that's what I.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: That's a great thing about it.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: It's like we will never know and, yeah, there's no way to prove it either way.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: So keep on walking around the woods and looking.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: There you go, dude, before we go, I am curious to see how you like living in Leavenworth, because that's a cool spot.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a hard question to answer right this moment because it's been pretty dreary the last while and I have not been able to explore and get out in the things that make Leavenworth so great, and I think the town itself is kind of weird, uh, with the bavarian theme, um, but I, yeah, love the community that has like been super welcoming and accepting and like me here, uh, and I'm like so stoked to have some warm, sunny days to go explore the surrounding areas.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, well, I might well like this.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: The last couple months haven't been.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I could have been anywhere the last couple months.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: It probably wouldn't have mattered, but I'm, yeah hyped to be here in leavenworth and, um, yeah, is there like a like a solid trail running community there like any a lot of runners or?
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: there's not a ton, there's not a huge trail running community, but there's a huge outdoor community like skiers, climbers, people who run, but I don't think they would call themselves trail runners.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: There's a I think there's a good trail running community in winatchee, which is like 30 minutes away.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, there's like a huge outdoor community, but I wouldn't say like a huge trail running community specifically, but like that's kind of the vibe that I like, like anyway, like I like the more, yeah, technical climb ski aspect of trail running, which yeah.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: It was a great conversation dude, I am so excited for where you're going to take Tarik Noda, Like I, I hope this is one of the fastest growing brands in in in the sport in the next year or so.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: It'd be sweet to see.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, and we'll.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: We'll definitely keep in touch and uh, yeah, Anytime you want to come on and tell a story, the microphone's yours, so that sounds great.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me on.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: I yeah, it was.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: It was super fun.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome dude.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what'd you guys think?
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a great episode.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: I really want to thank Alex so much for coming, coming on the podcast, not only to just help him tell his story, but to help tell the story of Taragnota and why it deserves such an important place in the market, in my opinion.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Just offering a simple, yet significant, no thrills, simple kit from head to toe, high quality products and the most important thing is it's cheap, it's affordable, you don't have to remortgage your house to get them, which I just really enjoy.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: So I definitely want to wish Alex the absolute best of luck on his venture with this.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: Guys, before we get going, we're going to hop on Instagram.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Let's get some followers for Alex.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: First, you can find him at Alex King runs on Instagram that's his handle and then secondary follow, tarik Noda.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: You can hop on.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: You could find Tarik Noda by just typing in T-E-R-I-G-N-O-T-A.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Their hashtag there is explore your unknown.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: You can find them at TarikNodacom.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: I know Alex was pretty candid and open about when he's got his next drops coming for gear or for merch.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: So you guys will be able to get them within the next month or so.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: I believe is what he said.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: Um, for the shorts as well.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: I think the shirts are still, um, still in stock, some of them, um, and he's got some socks as well and all kinds of good stuff.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: So hop on their uh, hop on their Instagram or hop on, hop on their website.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Yikes, um and uh, and throw throwing an order.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: Send them some support, guys.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: Where else are you going to find such a high quality shirts and shorts for like 20 something bucks?
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: Like I'm on, I'm on, I'm on the website Now the shirt is $22 and the shorts are 29 for the men's and women's.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Like it doesn't get much.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: The hat is 19.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Like these are high quality products at such an affordable price.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: Like why not support this brand?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, I want to wish alex the best super exciting venture that he's got going on.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: We'll probably have him back on in the next year, a couple months, to share his story as the brand continues to grow and just kind of takes over, which we're excited to follow.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: So, um, yeah, guys, thanks for this episode, thanks for following along episode, thanks for following along, um, if you enjoyed this one, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, um, or um, youtube and uh, yeah, this episode is brought to you by ultimate direction USA.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Um, next time you guys are interested in picking up a?
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Uh, a belt or a vest or a handheld flask, uh, use code steep stuff pod for 25% off your cart.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: And yeah, thanks, so much, thank you you.