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The Healthy Christian Leader - Discipleship Defined | Rob Laidlaw · Leadership Podcasts

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello friends, and welcome to the Healthy Christian Leader.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dwight Habermell, and I have our guest today, Rob Laidlaw.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, it's great to have you here.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome here.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Dwight.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate being here.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great to have you.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: For those who don't know Rob, Rob is a pastor here in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Rob, how long have you been pastoring now?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Pastoring total?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's been over 30 years.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you're a veteran.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Still learning as I go.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: The um, you know, one of the things that I've really appreciated about your ministry um over the years is you've really been a student of the word, and you you are one who is constantly growing and discovering and uh challenging ideas.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate it so much.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you brought so much to the body.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh now you have a training curriculum program that's you've developed online, which is called uh Strategic Discipleship.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's found at strategicdiscipleship.com, and there we provide four years of discipleship curriculum.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know having heard from many different leaders, it's a real encouragement and uh to them.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't already heard about that, you need to check it out online.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you need to know that it's free.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that that's that's the the big thing is so many curriculums out there, uh, they just cost so much.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when we wrote this, we said let's make it available to churches for free so that uh churches are struggling financially or in poorer parts of the world, they can have something that they can use without having to worry about the cost for it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a kingdom heart, and I it's such an encouragement to me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, Rob, thank you for your great work there.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna actually be talking about discipleship uh today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were gonna throw a title at this uh talk today, it's probably gonna be something like discipleship defined and trying to get our arms and our mind around discipleship a little bit.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've written this curriculum series.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: What's the backstory behind that?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we started doing our first church plant, we had all these people coming to our church that didn't have a faith background.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was exciting, but it was starting to be a bit overwhelming because we were just a small church plant team, and now we've got all these people that are coming that we we have to minister and we have to disciple in some way.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I sort of prayed to God saying, God, um, you need to send us some spiritually mature people who can come and help uh teach and lead and disciple these people.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and the response I got from God isn't what I expected.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember getting this incredibly strong impression.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it wasn't a voice or even words in my head, but it just the strong impression, which which I'm convinced is from God, is that's what I put you there to create.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so why are you asking me for spiritually mature leaders?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I sent you there to create spiritually mature leaders.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that made uh me sort of stop and go, like, ah, like how how do you do that in a short period of time?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do you take someone who knows nothing or is a skeptic and turn them into a kingdom leader?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, you know what?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh really what Paul modeled.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So well, this is the thing.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we start looking and saying, well, what is it that Jesus did?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like how did Jesus go about doing this?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because um we we need to come up with some sort of discipleship framework.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we weren't talking about like a 10-week discipleship program.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking how do you get someone from point A all the way over to point B and what are those points even?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's where we were looking at the the life and ministry of Jesus and realize, man, he he only had a three-year window of opportunity to take someone from being a skeptic and turning them into a kingdom influencer.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell All right.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you go about doing that?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, this was was the challenge because man, like if Jesus did in three years, shouldn't we also be doing that in in essentially a three to say four or five-year period?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now they were with him 24-7, which which we aren't typically doing.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: But so even if we said over a four to five year period of time, how are how are we taking someone from point A to point B?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and what are what are the experiences they need to have, the knowledge they need to have, all that sort of stuff.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so so we really start to look at Jesus' approach and thought, man, I I I think that's what we need to be doing.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: We need to have a a window of time of strategic and intentional discipleship that will get someone from this point to this point.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and at this point, we could then sort of launch them off into the kingdom as a kingdom influencer.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So now were there models that are biblical models that go predate Christ in the Old Testament?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what Jesus adopted wasn't a brand new concept.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: It had existed.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even in the Old Testament, you had uh people like um Moses and Joshua.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: You had uh Elijah and Elisha.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so over over uh this whole concept of apprenticing was there, uh live with me, learn my perspective, learn my theology, learn my beliefs, but also learn my lifestyle, and now learn this from me, and now you go and put it into action yourself.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that developed over time to the time just before the time of Jesus.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: You had uh philosophers like Socrates and Plato and Aristotle.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: They adopted this discipleship approach because they wanted to spread their philosophy.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how are you gonna spread your philosophy through the world?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he said, I'm gonna pull together some disciples, some students of mine, and they're gonna live with me.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And again, they are going to learn everything I have to teach them, but they're also gonna watch my approach to life.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as they learn my wisdom and my approach to life, the understanding is that they will then take that and they will gather disciples and they will pass that on to them.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really their strategy for spreading their uh philosophical belief system throughout the world, and and actually it worked fairly well.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So well, and it's beyond just philosophers and Jesus.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: We actually use that whole principle in the trades.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh in fact, we call it apprenticeship.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it deals with everything from you know, how do you do this or that technically to how do you organize a site, how do you approach work, yes, how do you think about what you're doing?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so discipleship is really apprenticeship on steroids, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It it takes the apprenticeship concept and it says, now, and so not just watch and model me, like actually live with me.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do life together, and I will journey with you through through life and and through all the experiences of life, not just in your business field, but in life in the big picture.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but yes, so apprenticeship would be a very focused uh aspect of discipleship.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship takes it into a much bigger um umbrella.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Most churches would probably agree with this understanding of discipleship that you're talking about.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's missing?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I find is that all churches disciple.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you're preaching the word of God, if you're teaching, you're discipling, you're passing on on uh wisdom and you're passing on lifestyle and character, that sort of thing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: What I find churches don't do is is they don't have a strategic good goal for discipleship.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship is just this ongoing nebulous thing to uh that you engage as in as a follower of Jesus till the day you die.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what Jesus did.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously that the disciples that Jesus had, uh he had that three-year window.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and once Jesus left, he was going to continue they would continue to grow as disciples, but there was a very specific goal in his three-year window of this discipleship that was to get them from being a skeptic to becoming a kingdom influencer, where he could say, now I'm stepping back, I will send my spirit, and my spirit will empower and equip you and lead you and direct you, but I physically am stepping back and leaving the kingdom now into your hands.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now be faithful with what you do with it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh he really had to get them to a point that at the end of the three years he could leave and entrust that kingdom activity was going to continue to happen.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, discipleship is ongoing, but I'm I'm starting to now understand that discipleship, we almost want to view it more as a university course.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh people will go off to university and they will study there for four longer years, even.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of that training, they believe that they should be equipped to go off and get employment with uh with competence in the field that they've been trained for.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the hope, anyways.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that they can leave that uh college or university and go off and get a job and they will be able to do the job because they've been trained to do it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, how I would understand discipleship is that the first phase of discipleship really has to have this specific target goal in mind that over a four to five year period of time, we are going to equip you with everything you need to know and understand, so that at the end of it, we feel confident to send you out to do church planning, to do missions, or maybe it's to stay, but you're gonna stay and assume responsibility for the church and for the kingdom.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is a little bit of the difference, is encouraging churches to say, um, no, there is an end goal, a specific end goal that we are aiming for.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And now the question is, what is our strategy to get from this point to this point?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: How are we going to do that?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's very interesting.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, how would you define discipleship?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's a lot of different ways you can do it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um in Genesis, we are created to be the image of God.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when sin entered the picture, that image got distorted and disrupted, and we are now much less than what we are created to be.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: We are not ruling and subduing creation like we are intended to be, and we're not walking with God and representing his rule as we are created to be.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you could say that really discipleship is just the journey of being restored back to image.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, specifically, we would say now that image is represented to us through Christ, who is the image of God, and so we're being restored to the image of Christ.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I even had a discussion with our small group this past week saying, I want you to think about who Jesus is, and then I want you thinking about who you are and what's the difference.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in what way does your life not look like Jesus' life?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And really, what discipleship is, is the journey for us to get you from where you're currently at so that you look like Jesus.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really want to help you grow, grow in that journey.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And to really uh really, when all said and done, we want you looking like Jesus.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Paul said, for me to live is Christ.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we would hope that you could say, hey, for me to live is Christ.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I will be Christ to this world.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so discipleship is the journey to get me through that point where I'm really representing accurately the message and the ministry of Jesus.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: With that in mind, how do you actually make this happen in a local church?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we felt that we need to start giving people some metric.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we we did create a definition for discipleship.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we said a disciple is a baptized follower of Jesus who devotes their life to the teachings, the mission, and the leadership of Jesus Christ.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this next phrase is very key assuming increasing responsibility for their own spiritual growth, for the discipleship and the growth of others, for the ministry of the local church and the global spread of the gospel.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want to keep telling my people is if you're growing as a disciple, well, one of the ways you can know you're growing as a disciple is that you can say, hey, am I actually assuming more responsibility for the kingdom of God this year than I was last year?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because someone who's growing as a disciple is going to grow in increasing responsibility and an understanding that, hey, it's it's my job of Jesus working through me to help the church be everything Jesus intends it to be and for the spread of the gospel to go where Jesus intends it to go.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So this idea that as you grow as a disciple, you you grow increasing responsibility.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's similar to a child growing up.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: As uh when a child is born, we do a lot of just spoon feeding that child, uh giving them the bottle or or bringing the spoon up to us.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But as the child grows, we expect that one, he's going to start feeding himself, but we just don't want it to get to that point.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: We want him to start assuming responsibility for the family that he's a part of, and then uh a responsibility for the community that he's within, a responsibility for the local church that he's a part of, and then ultimately responsibility for his own family as that comes into play.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So so really what we're saying is we want to uh really have some specific goals in that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um really uh the challenge for us when we started all this in our local church, we had people coming, and it was just a big deal for them to be showing up on Sundays.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: If they made it a couple of uh weeks and a month, man, they're they're super spiritual and they're they're doing great.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when we wanted to start helping them grow as disciples, we thought, boy, like how are we going to convince them to engage even more and to walk with us and journey with us in a more intensive and strategic way.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the ways we did that was we we put out a survey of everything that we felt we wanted a person to deal with over a four-year period of time.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we we labeled everything.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we handed the survey out to our congregation, and we said, we just want you to check the boxes to see where you're at.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we we put those sort of into four columns, four phases of discipleship.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we said, we want you to get a sense of where you're at.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because how do you even start to measure where you're at as a disciple?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: How mature are you, really?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: How do you even define that?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we typically say, Well, hey, I think I'm doing pretty good.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Me and God, we're close, and you know, but how how do how what's the metrics for that?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So so we gave them sort of this checklist of things that we felt they should know, disciplines that should they should have, experiences and such.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we had them go through that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of it, we had them write down how many years they'd been a Christian.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: For some, it it was only a few months, others it might have been 40, 50 years.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: But as they looked at uh where they're at, they realized, oh, but I'm only in phase two, out of four phases, I'm really only of I'm really only competent in in these phases.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there's all this that I don't know.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what it did for those that had been Christians for a number of years, it created a lot of tension.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in fact, with some of them, it it was it was almost anger.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: They said, like, if this is the basic stuff we should know, and I don't even know half of this, what's been going on in the 40 years I've been going to church?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh why haven't I been so why don't I know this stuff?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh and that was a good thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: It created this holy discontent in their lives, saying, Well, I want to be more mature.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I I I should be farther along than where I am, because uh many of them, even though they'd been journeying with Christ 20, 30, 40 years, they weren't really assuming responsibility.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: They were just attending or they didn't know all this stuff.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So uh our first step was to make them discontent and and create a thirst in them saying, No, I want to be more competent in my faith.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to have a stronger relationship with Jesus, I want to be more led more by the Holy Spirit, I want to bear more fruit, I want to see more impact for uh the years that I've been following Jesus.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's at least where we started with them.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's interesting because uh ministry actually challenges us to growth.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I can see that in my own journey and my own life, you know, as you serve, you grow.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's it look like from a practical standpoint?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you were to paint a picture for us, does it look like, you know, a workbook in front of a group of ten people and you're facilitating?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Does it which could be a little more akin to a Sunday school class, or does it look like a one-on-one scenario with people?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh guess give us a picture and how do you kind of get things started?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the answer to that is yes.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is the problem, and I think it's a danger when and I'm not saying churches shouldn't have uh a job description of discipleship focus in the church, um, but there can be a danger that comes along with that, that that discipleship is a specific thing that you do, and often they'll refer to small groups as being their discipleship focus.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the problem is discipleship is much bigger than that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the job of the church is discipleship.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 100%, I agree.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So everything is discipleship.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh and so really we want to encourage churches to be thinking through not just what is what is my approach to teaching a curriculum.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Curriculum does not disciple people.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh curriculum is just one component, or it or teaching knowledge is one component of discipleship.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And being in small group community is one component of discipleship.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But there's uh there's so many more aspects to discipleship, and they all have to be in play.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really encourage churches to understand that they need to think more uh globally with the church as far as everything we do has to accomplish our goal of discipleship.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, if I'm trying to get someone from this point to this point, everything we do in the church has to facilitate that process.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Every ministry we have uh has to play a role.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we would even expect every ministry in our church has to have clearly defined discipleship goals.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is this ministry going to accomplish that's different from the other ministries to help someone get from this point to this point?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is it going to speak into their life or build into their life that other ministries aren't?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need to duplicate ministries, uh, because we only have so much time and energy and resources.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's not duplicate the same inputs.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start figuring out how can we, how can each ministry have distinct, unique inputs into a person's life to help them from here to here?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so then as we map that out with our with our ministry leaders, that also gives us a point for uh holding them accountable.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, with all this time that you're spending this year, how are you getting people from here to here?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you set these specific discipleship goals.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are we accomplishing those goals?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are we actually moving people from here to here?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I I I I had this conversation with my small group uh last night.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about this idea that we want to get you from here to here.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everything we're doing is to help you to get to this point.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so in this group, here's how we want to help you do that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, in essence, you could take the discipleship material that you've created, and I'm sure others could create their own, but you've done a lot of that work, which is a great reference tool and work tool.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Would you then review the material and integrate it into various, like some content in material in sermons, some in small groups, some in Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So when we started this whole process, um, thinking, oh man, what how did Jesus do this?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: How did Jesus get people from here to here?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: We realized we had to have a clear understanding of what the here looks like, what the finished point looks like.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when we started mapping out, saying, okay, well, what's all the theology we would want them to know?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what are all the character uh characteristics we want them to exhibit?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what are all the uh and so we started mapping all this stuff out, writing it down, and we realize, okay, some of this uh would fit best in a small group discussion format.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some of this would be better as a church sermon series for the whole church globally.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Some of this would be more seminar uh approach, some of this would be more one-on-one or microgroups.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we start real uh slotting the different stuff that we had compiled and saying, okay, this we're gonna do here, this we're gonna do over here, this we're gonna do here.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when we start working.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, so essentially we came down to six areas of discipleship focus that we needed to clearly define and start creating strategies for.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh yeah, those six areas we can get into more in our next session, but uh but that's what we're we're trying to do is how can we help?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: People grow in all these different areas.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of roadblocks and frustrations have you hit as you've been implementing this over time?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you can provide discipleship environments, but you can't force people to be discipled.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably the biggest challenge is people really catching the vision, people surrendering, surrendering their lives to be disciples and to grow as disciples.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people just want to embrace Jesus and then live a comfortable life.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what discipleship.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship calls us into the uncomfortable.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship calls us to surrender our lives to the purposes and the mission of Jesus.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that the old 80-20 rule that 80% of the people or 20% of the people in a church are carrying 80% of the load?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a sense where the discipleship model reflects that, or do you find it actually changes those metrics?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely changes it.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: After I did that survey, and then we launched small groups, because we said, hey, for those of you who are frustrated with where you're at in your spiritual growth journey, we have a solution for you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: We are initiating our whole discipleship process, and one of the major focuses of that will be our small groups and the curriculum and the other things we want to accomplish in those small group environments.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we invite you to sign up.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no clue how that was going to go over with people who had no small group experience whatsoever, but we had eighty eighty percent of our church sign up for small groups and for our discipleship process.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just flipped the whole thing on its ear.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have typically found that 80% of our church has been involved doing 80% of the church.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that that has worked for us.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we feel good about that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: We want to know that everyone has a role to play.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we we'll even sit down and think through hey, this person isn't really involved in their area of gifted ministry yet.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: How can we help them find out what that is and get them having a meaningful contribution?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not just serving in the nursery once a month, not that that's unimportant, but but but more, what is their gifting and their passion where they can we can unleash them to have kingdom impact and kingdom influence?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, we are blessed to have a lot of young leaders who listen to this podcast according to the demographics we get back.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um what encouragement would you have to young leaders right now as they're engaging and um taking up really the charge for the church in the next season and generation?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the exciting part is that God has a unique role for you to play that only you can play in his kingdom, and he's calling you to that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he just doesn't want you just um existing through life until the day you die.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: He has a purpose for you to fulfill, and he's calling you to that purpose.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when we engage with that purpose, that's when we find our our own personal faith grows.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Our faith becomes exciting, faith becomes an adventure, and we start to realizing, hey, I can have impact, I can actually change things, but it's through the Holy Spirit working through me, through the giftings and the calling that he's given me.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really want people to get that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And even we we want our youth to be getting that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want our youth having meaningful service in the kingdom of God.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's so awesome, Rob Laidlaw, folks, um, and strategic discipleship.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, Rob.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Great to have you part of the program.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually looking forward to our next conversation, which is going to come up very shortly.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time on the Healthy Christian Leader.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, today's conversation was fantastic, but we're not finished yet.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back in the next video with the same guest with more discussion about leader health.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know the drill.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe and hit that bell.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Would you join us for the next episode?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can find new episodes every week in video form on the Erin Ministry YouTube page and in audio form as the Healthy Christian Leader Show wherever you get your podcasts.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Erin Ministries is an interdenominational network of friends in ministry with a mission to foster healthy Christian leaders.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Check out our website, Erin Ministries.com, for more resources and information on how to donate or to start a healthy Christian leader gathering in your area.