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Tigers First Half Grades Plus All-Star Game Reactions · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:09
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieren
0:13
Speaker 1: Steckley with me is always a man who likes to
0:16
Speaker 1: swag when he surfs. He is Cody staven Egg and
0:19
Speaker 1: how you doing.
0:20
Speaker 2: I'm doing good? Number one. I've never been surfing. Can't
0:23
Speaker 2: say that would be my move even if I did.
0:27
Speaker 2: We've had what four days without the Tigers here? You guys,
0:30
Speaker 2: you guys forgotten about baseball yet? I mean the All
0:33
Speaker 2: Star Game was pretty entertaining if you were tuned in.
0:36
Speaker 2: But yeah, things about to to kind of reset and
0:40
Speaker 2: get going. Here. Do we want to revisit the All
0:43
Speaker 2: Star Game for a little bit.
0:44
Speaker 1: Well, there were a lot of Tigers highlights, right like
0:46
Speaker 1: they MVP any All Star MVPs.
0:51
Speaker 2: Any is the entire second half threatened due to the
0:56
Speaker 2: lack of performance in the All Star Game. This thing
0:59
Speaker 2: does account. I don't think this matters at all. Trek
1:03
Speaker 2: Scoogle gave up two soft hit singles and then the
1:06
Speaker 2: Kettle Marte double. It'll be fine, he was Scoob bel
1:11
Speaker 2: for the record, is always pretty chill on start day.
1:13
Speaker 2: But he walked in the clubhouse and he looked at
1:16
Speaker 2: me and a couple others. He's like, hey, you guys
1:18
Speaker 2: want to talk, And I was like, you're starting today.
1:23
Speaker 2: It was like, I know it's the Altar game, but
1:24
Speaker 2: I feel morally wrong, and you know you're not supposed
1:26
Speaker 2: to start to talk to the starting picture from a
1:29
Speaker 2: media perspective. On the day starts. He's like, oh, I
1:32
Speaker 2: forgot I was pitching today. So that gives you a
1:34
Speaker 2: little insight into like where he was at. And that's
1:38
Speaker 2: not to say he wasn't like taking it seriously or whatever.
1:41
Speaker 2: It's just the Alcar game. You know. Trek was having
1:44
Speaker 2: a good time, showed out on the red carpet whatever.
1:46
Speaker 2: He seemed to kind of revel in it. But no
1:49
Speaker 2: one else got any hits. Casey Maes gave up a
1:52
Speaker 2: homer to Corbyn Carroll whatever. I think it is what
1:56
Speaker 2: it is. I think it was still good to have
1:57
Speaker 2: the Tigers well represented there. I think the guys showed out,
2:00
Speaker 2: they had some you know, Hobby Glabor, had really good
2:03
Speaker 2: times with their families. I don't know, I just don't
2:08
Speaker 2: have any grand takeaways. I was there, I like I
2:10
Speaker 2: was in Atlanta. I thought it was a great showing
2:12
Speaker 2: for the game when talking about the home run derby
2:15
Speaker 2: if you want, But from a Tiger's perspective, I guess
2:18
Speaker 2: it would have been nice to have like a big
2:21
Speaker 2: Tigers moment on that stage, right, Maybe we'll get one
2:25
Speaker 2: of those come October.
2:27
Speaker 1: Still matter, Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things
2:30
Speaker 1: like it. And by the way, I'm in a hotel
2:32
Speaker 1: room in New York, so that's why my voice is
2:34
Speaker 1: a little bit more tempered. I don't want to get
2:36
Speaker 1: a complaint on me, but like it's one of those
2:38
Speaker 1: things that.
2:38
Speaker 2: People out there are going to be like here and
2:40
Speaker 2: should be in the New York hotel all the time
2:44
Speaker 2: looking at you, doctor Robin land.
2:48
Speaker 3: Facts.
2:48
Speaker 1: So like the it would have been a nice kind
2:53
Speaker 1: of check mark in the in the storybook part of
2:56
Speaker 1: the season. But at the same time, the sal people,
3:00
Speaker 1: it's like, maye your favorite highlight from the Dodgers All
3:05
Speaker 1: Star Game in twenty twenty or yeah, I know there
3:08
Speaker 1: wasn't one in twenty twenty, but you see what I'm saying,
3:09
Speaker 1: Like like it's like it's like a year without the
3:14
Speaker 1: All Star Game, but like what what was or even
3:16
Speaker 1: night you take like what was what was Corbyn Carroll's
3:18
Speaker 1: moment in twenty twenty three, you know what I mean,
3:21
Speaker 1: what was Cory seekers in twenty twenty three. I don't know,
3:24
Speaker 1: so so like, yeah, it would have been cool. Oh yeah,
3:27
Speaker 1: it would have been really cool. But I also think
3:29
Speaker 1: like the spotlight itself was the moment Trek Schougle miked up,
3:35
Speaker 1: you know, shockingly saying a bad word online, telling.
3:38
Speaker 2: People would have thought that might happen.
3:41
Speaker 1: And also being you know, all of them being great
3:44
Speaker 1: ambassadors for the franchise and it being a staple of
3:48
Speaker 1: everything that they've accomplished to this point this season. And
3:51
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this a little bit more recappy. We
3:54
Speaker 1: haven't really done like a quote unquote first half ish episode. Yeah,
3:58
Speaker 1: so that will be kind of the theme of every
4:00
Speaker 1: But I did want to remind everybody we have foul territory.
4:03
Speaker 1: We have a great giveaway going on right now at
4:05
Speaker 1: chat BCC group Chat if you think you know ball,
4:09
Speaker 1: there's a trivia contest, and by the looks of it,
4:13
Speaker 1: people take this very seriously as I do at trivia.
4:16
Speaker 1: As Cody knows, prove it with our authentic shot at
4:20
Speaker 1: winning an authentic MLB jersey of your choice worth up
4:23
Speaker 1: to four hundred dollars.
4:24
Speaker 3: Here's how you enter.
4:25
Speaker 1: Go to foul Territory dot chat, play trivia, crush it
4:28
Speaker 1: and you might win. We are picking one winner from
4:31
Speaker 1: the top ten scores at random, so it's not just
4:33
Speaker 1: get the get the top, you know, somebody at random
4:36
Speaker 1: from the top ten scores. Deadline is July twentieth at
4:40
Speaker 1: eleven fifty nine pm Eastern, so that is foul Territory
4:45
Speaker 1: dot Chat.
4:47
Speaker 3: I love trivia.
4:50
Speaker 1: All right, well, aside from the All Star Game, and which,
4:54
Speaker 1: by the way, I thought it was a great thing
4:56
Speaker 1: for Major League Baseball. I thought the Hank Aaron honoring
4:59
Speaker 1: Hank Aaron element that they did was I can only
5:01
Speaker 1: imagine what was like seeing in person, but like on TV,
5:04
Speaker 1: it looked great. You know, nice to see missus Aaron
5:07
Speaker 1: there as well. And you know the Braves legends thrown
5:10
Speaker 1: out the first pitch and oh that stuff. I thought you,
5:13
Speaker 1: Homer Derby, was a lot of fun. Even the swing off.
5:15
Speaker 1: Do you have a swing off?
5:15
Speaker 3: Take Cody? This might be the time.
5:19
Speaker 2: I am normally all four progressive innovations in the game,
5:25
Speaker 2: things to make the game better, more entertaining, faster, all
5:29
Speaker 2: about that love the pitch clock. I have no qualms
5:33
Speaker 2: with the new extra innings rule everring now and then
5:36
Speaker 2: a player, if a team loses on ground ball to
5:41
Speaker 2: the right side sack fly, player would be like, we're
5:43
Speaker 2: not even playing real baseball? What is this? And I
5:46
Speaker 2: think I the swing off was great for the All
5:49
Speaker 2: Star Game. No, we don't need extra innings and in
5:51
Speaker 2: the All start I do not think this should become
5:55
Speaker 2: a thing in the regular season or can you imagine
5:57
Speaker 2: the World Series being determined on a going off like
6:01
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe that'd be fun to watch, but
6:03
Speaker 2: from just a competitive perspective, this is not the game.
6:08
Speaker 2: This is not what teams do, especially maybe no better
6:11
Speaker 2: example than a team like the Tigers, which leans into
6:15
Speaker 2: chaos and pinshitting and small margins and then all of
6:18
Speaker 2: a sudden it's all right, Like you're gonna pick tork
6:21
Speaker 2: Riley and somebody else to go up there and try
6:26
Speaker 2: to hit you a few home runs. I don't even
6:27
Speaker 2: know who the they're I guess if he's healthy, Abby,
6:31
Speaker 2: it would Hobby be great or terrible at that. I
6:34
Speaker 2: honestly have no idea. Yes, yeah, yeah, no, I I
6:39
Speaker 2: am really currently really anti this ever becoming a thing
6:43
Speaker 2: to determine games in the regular season. I think it's
6:46
Speaker 2: just too different from the actual sport.
6:52
Speaker 1: I'm gonna zag a little bit. I'm gonna go a
6:54
Speaker 1: little bit more progressive than you on this, Cody. I
6:56
Speaker 1: think in the regular season, like, okay, because we all
7:00
Speaker 1: acknowledge it's silly, right, we can all acknowledge it's silly.
7:03
Speaker 1: Even if you like it, it's still silly. I think
7:07
Speaker 1: position players pitching and throwing forty five mile an hour,
7:11
Speaker 1: you know, well lollipops into into the batter's box is
7:15
Speaker 1: also silly. So I go from the frame of silliness
7:19
Speaker 1: is already in the game, okay. I think that if
7:24
Speaker 1: you play ten innings and you can do the extra
7:26
Speaker 1: runner and the ghost runner whatever for the tenth inning,
7:29
Speaker 1: and you know, have have that be like the last
7:33
Speaker 1: real baseball ending that you play, and then you swing off.
7:36
Speaker 1: So basically no game is played more than ten in
7:39
Speaker 1: the regular season. No game is played more than ten
7:42
Speaker 1: innings of actual baseball, and then after that you do
7:46
Speaker 1: swing off because you know, arms, fatigue, travel, like all
7:51
Speaker 1: these other things that we implemented changes for. Anyway, I
7:54
Speaker 1: just think I think actually that would be okay. I
7:57
Speaker 1: would be okay with that because you it's not just
8:00
Speaker 1: extra endings, it's the you know, eleventh inning on Basically,
8:04
Speaker 1: I think it would be okay because at that point,
8:07
Speaker 1: at that point, we're really stretching these guys.
8:09
Speaker 2: Then I could get tucked into that. I'd want to
8:12
Speaker 2: see it get play the tenth and eleventh right just
8:16
Speaker 2: because or or I think if you do that, then
8:20
Speaker 2: you have to eliminate the automatic runner on the tenth
8:23
Speaker 2: because it's too easy for both teams to score one run.
8:25
Speaker 2: And then although the data actually says like that's not
8:28
Speaker 2: happening a lot, it just feels easy. But I guess
8:33
Speaker 2: maybe I could get on board with that. I could
8:35
Speaker 2: also get on board it might really offence some people
8:39
Speaker 2: just having ties. You probably one hundred and sixty two
8:42
Speaker 2: of these, you have like six or seven ties. It's
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Speaker 2: okay that.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if that's progressive or progressive,
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Speaker 1: but it's unique, and I like.
8:52
Speaker 2: Both the competitor and like, if I were a player,
8:55
Speaker 2: I would be so pissed if I tied. Sometimes that
8:59
Speaker 2: feels tying. I think field worse than losings. It's like
9:02
Speaker 2: we really like we didn't even get to hash this out.
9:07
Speaker 2: But you can have ties in other sports, including like
9:11
Speaker 2: the NFL, and you can't have a tie in one
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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty two game season.
9:17
Speaker 3: I agree, I respect that take.
9:19
Speaker 1: All right, We're going to get to grading the various
9:22
Speaker 1: elements of the Tigers season thus far, going into the
9:27
Speaker 1: quote unquote second half.
9:28
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9:33
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9:37
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9:45
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9:47
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9:51
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9:54
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9:58
Speaker 4: hearts were made for. Play that moves you all right?
10:04
Speaker 1: Coming back here, Cody, I actually think this is a
10:07
Speaker 1: fun exercise to do because you know, the headline is
10:11
Speaker 1: the six All Stars. The headline is best record in baseball,
10:15
Speaker 1: lead the division by ten plus. I mean that was
10:17
Speaker 1: you know, every time a tier came to the plate
10:19
Speaker 1: or went to the mound like that, you know, that
10:21
Speaker 1: was like the talking point.
10:23
Speaker 3: So this kind of helps kind of.
10:25
Speaker 1: Frame a little bit like how we got here, while
10:29
Speaker 1: also like you know, acknowledging the positive and even though
10:32
Speaker 1: we just had a couple of negative podcasts because of
10:34
Speaker 1: how they went into the All Star break, it kind
10:36
Speaker 1: of contextualizes things a little bit. So first off, something
10:40
Speaker 1: I think is kind of easy aj hinch his coaching staff,
10:47
Speaker 1: Like if we were to grade them, I don't know,
10:51
Speaker 1: like you just have to be an A, right, doesn't
10:53
Speaker 1: it have to be an A for aj Hinching company?
10:55
Speaker 1: Because again, it's nearly sixty wins dominating the division to
11:00
Speaker 1: this point, and it's not like injury luck has been
11:05
Speaker 1: like they've had quote unquote injury luck that's gone in
11:07
Speaker 1: their favor with some guys that you know, you wouldn't
11:10
Speaker 1: be surprised if they missed time. But at the same time, Jackson,
11:13
Speaker 1: Joe carry Carpenter, you know, like Labor you know, I
11:17
Speaker 1: know wasn't that long, but Labor got hurt there for
11:19
Speaker 1: a little bit. Jake Rogers at the time we thought
11:21
Speaker 1: could have been a I don't say devastating, but a
11:24
Speaker 1: pretty significant injury. And then Dingler emerges. It's just like
11:28
Speaker 1: there hasn't been like this uncanny health streak for the
11:31
Speaker 1: Tigers this year to get them on the verge of
11:33
Speaker 1: sixty wins, and the fact that they've been able to
11:36
Speaker 1: navigate a lot of this stuff with this record and
11:40
Speaker 1: winning in a variety of ways, which will you know,
11:42
Speaker 1: obviously talk about.
11:43
Speaker 3: You know, moving forward.
11:44
Speaker 1: I just feel like I don't really believe in a
11:47
Speaker 1: pluses because a plus like that just seems like where
11:51
Speaker 1: you go from there. But it's got to be an a,
11:53
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know if it like amyas
11:55
Speaker 1: seems like too harsh, so I just kind of put
11:57
Speaker 1: like a flat A.
11:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's nothing more subjective most of the
12:02
Speaker 2: time in grading coaching because you're really looking at how
12:05
Speaker 2: players do and trying to draw some correlation to how
12:08
Speaker 2: coaches impact that. But got the best record in baseball,
12:12
Speaker 2: I think the coaching staff gets an aaj Hinch just
12:14
Speaker 2: continued to manage with a creative style, throwing out different
12:18
Speaker 2: lineups every day, it seems like, and it continues to work.
12:23
Speaker 2: You know, you have an offense that is overachieving. We'll
12:26
Speaker 2: talk about that more here in just a second, but
12:29
Speaker 2: it seems like a good look for the hitting Coaches
12:32
Speaker 2: continue to rank well in terms of percentages of fly
12:36
Speaker 2: balls converted out, So that looks good on George Lombard
12:39
Speaker 2: and those guys working with the outfielders going first to third,
12:43
Speaker 2: Baby taking extra base is the Joey Korra special man.
12:47
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's frustrating when a guy gets thrown out, But
12:50
Speaker 2: the more and more I see, the more's like Zoe
12:53
Speaker 2: Corer is a dog in the third base box. He's
12:56
Speaker 2: an asset to this team. The guys who get the
13:00
Speaker 2: most love Chris Ftter, Robin Lund, we're not talking about
13:03
Speaker 2: them as much. The bullpen is struggling. Uh. They've still
13:07
Speaker 2: kind of got enough out with some guys to help
13:09
Speaker 2: weather some of the injuries. The rotation's been pretty stable
13:14
Speaker 2: despite like a couple injuries, spite some ups and downs
13:17
Speaker 2: from Jack Flaherty. Keep in mind, guys, they've gotten a
13:20
Speaker 2: little more out of too already. The Chase Lee's the world.
13:23
Speaker 2: The improvements still in Smith made just to make his
13:26
Speaker 2: major league debut. Wouldn't be surprised if there's more internal
13:31
Speaker 2: improvements to come from the pitching staff in the second half.
13:34
Speaker 2: Coaches getting it from me, all right.
13:37
Speaker 1: And another thing too, like that, I think kind of
13:42
Speaker 1: clouds everything around this is that like, if you were
13:46
Speaker 1: to define the Tigers' identity, it's not gonna be, oh
13:51
Speaker 1: that their home run hitting. It's not gonna be their
13:53
Speaker 1: stolen bases. It's I mean, it's really not They're certainly
13:56
Speaker 1: not their bullpen and you know, not really starting pitching.
13:59
Speaker 1: It's just like everything, right, It's just it's just it's
14:02
Speaker 1: a culmination of everything. And what is that reflective of
14:06
Speaker 1: It's reflective of coaching, you know what I mean? Like
14:08
Speaker 1: so like that that that part I think kind of
14:12
Speaker 1: puts it over the top in terms of like is
14:15
Speaker 1: this you know, you said it's you know, players doing
14:17
Speaker 1: the job, and AJ is always one to be quick
14:20
Speaker 1: to say that, you know, it's like it's a player's game.
14:22
Speaker 3: The player's got to be able to do it.
14:23
Speaker 1: But at the same time, man, uh, they're bought in
14:27
Speaker 1: and they don't and players don't just buy in for
14:29
Speaker 1: the sake of buying it.
14:31
Speaker 3: You know.
14:31
Speaker 1: It's a reflection of AJ and his staff and all
14:34
Speaker 1: that stuff. So I think I think that's a good
14:36
Speaker 1: grade there. Offense is interesting in the American League, Cody,
14:42
Speaker 1: the Tigers are third and o ps seeah where they
14:46
Speaker 1: are in home runs they are fifth in home runs.
14:49
Speaker 3: What's that? Do you like? You like doubles?
14:51
Speaker 1: They are actually behind in double six and double low
14:55
Speaker 1: any uh any concerns there and third and RBI. So
14:58
Speaker 1: they are you said about the various use of lineups
15:02
Speaker 1: and then we've mentioned a couple of injuries there. They
15:04
Speaker 1: are getting high level production and key areas without a
15:10
Speaker 1: Aaron Judge, without a Juan Soto with respect to Riley
15:14
Speaker 1: Green and stuff. But like, I do believe that there
15:20
Speaker 1: are times they are a little bit prone to.
15:24
Speaker 3: Valleys in cold streaks and.
15:27
Speaker 1: Then when you're your most noteworthy hitter, Riley Green is
15:30
Speaker 1: also like the strikeout king. I think that's a kind
15:33
Speaker 1: of a fair fair statement there. I'm going B plus
15:39
Speaker 1: because the number, the numbers are good enough that like
15:42
Speaker 1: you can't be overly like certainly not Tiger's Twitter level concerned.
15:48
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there are real holes. There
15:51
Speaker 1: are guys that you're needing to step up. And that's
15:54
Speaker 1: going to be a theme for the second half is
15:56
Speaker 1: like are you what are you going to get out
15:57
Speaker 1: of Parker Meadows? You know, you know it's it's what's
16:00
Speaker 1: carry Carpenter's hamps dring, Like there's definitely room for improvement.
16:05
Speaker 3: They've weathered some cold streaks.
16:07
Speaker 1: However, like it doesn't, it doesn't feel right given an
16:11
Speaker 1: A to this team might be plus.
16:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting point. I kind of agree in
16:17
Speaker 2: that the actual production the numbers are a little better
16:22
Speaker 2: than it feels. But maybe that is a sign that
16:27
Speaker 2: we should stop feeling that way. I don't know. I'm
16:30
Speaker 2: going to give the Tigers lineup an A because they
16:32
Speaker 2: were in sixth in baseball and run scoring. No one
16:36
Speaker 2: thought that coming into this season. The goal for me,
16:39
Speaker 2: I think, was to have an above league average offense.
16:41
Speaker 2: They could rk somewhere between ten to fifteen in run
16:46
Speaker 2: scoring and continue to have dominant pitching. I thought that
16:50
Speaker 2: was going to be the formula for the Tigers to
16:51
Speaker 2: get back to the playoffs. Well, there's sixth in run scored.
16:54
Speaker 3: There.
16:55
Speaker 2: We don't think of them as a home run hitting lineup,
16:57
Speaker 2: but they're eighth in homers. That's legit, and like you said,
17:02
Speaker 2: pretty much any other metric you want, they're doing pretty
17:06
Speaker 2: well in the lineup. Feels like there's some holes. I
17:11
Speaker 2: don't know, look at the bottom half of this order.
17:14
Speaker 2: It's it's it's become a quote unquote long lineup when
17:17
Speaker 2: you're nine hole hitter started the All Star Game. Look
17:21
Speaker 2: At what Dylan Dingler, although he has cooled off, that
17:24
Speaker 2: hasn't been talked about a ton yet. Look at what
17:26
Speaker 2: he has provided. Zach McKinstry is the top half of
17:31
Speaker 2: the order hitter now. And when we're talking about guys
17:35
Speaker 2: like Meadows and Veerling, like, I think those are two
17:38
Speaker 2: guys who are going to play really high level baseball
17:41
Speaker 2: at some point in the second half. Even though I'm
17:46
Speaker 2: a little concerned, I wonder, like in the postseason, are
17:49
Speaker 2: the Tigers gonna just not be able to produce runs
17:53
Speaker 2: at the clip it's required. You look at what they
17:56
Speaker 2: have actually done on the field, and I have to
17:59
Speaker 2: give it an.
18:01
Speaker 3: I like that.
18:01
Speaker 1: You know, at a certain time, your preconceived notions have
18:04
Speaker 1: to be eliminated, right, I think that's something that we fought,
18:08
Speaker 1: and I actually do think Tigers fans, media, you know,
18:12
Speaker 1: like the local media, have done a good job of
18:16
Speaker 1: transitioning from what we thought we knew to what we're seeing.
18:20
Speaker 3: But it's but it's still it still exists, you know
18:23
Speaker 3: what I mean?
18:23
Speaker 1: It still exists, So you still have to kind of
18:25
Speaker 1: catch yourself every every now and then, But.
18:28
Speaker 3: You know, we didn't.
18:31
Speaker 1: We don't talk about it a lot because they don't
18:33
Speaker 1: do it. But you talked about Korra being like an asset,
18:38
Speaker 1: and he is. That's one of the funniest conundrums about
18:41
Speaker 1: this team is that they are aggressive on the base
18:44
Speaker 1: paths with the ball in play, like when the ball's
18:48
Speaker 1: not in play, like you know from the bat. They
18:51
Speaker 1: are the least aggressive team in baseball. They have the
18:55
Speaker 1: least amount of stolen bases in the American League forty
18:58
Speaker 1: which how much does MC history have fifteen.
19:03
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a coincidence they've started being a
19:05
Speaker 2: little more aggressive of the last couple series. Obviously that's
19:10
Speaker 2: based on who's pitching, who's catching, times at the home plate,
19:14
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I've asked a J. Hinch about this.
19:16
Speaker 2: He said, Look, those are two separate things. You know,
19:19
Speaker 2: base running aggressiveness and stolen based aggressiveness are two completely
19:23
Speaker 2: different things. How often is it worth giving up and
19:28
Speaker 2: out trying to steal second base? And the Tigers have
19:33
Speaker 2: their reasoning. They don't feel it's that valuable overall team speed.
19:36
Speaker 2: It's a reflection of that too. They don't have that
19:39
Speaker 2: many burners on the base pads, which kind of makes
19:43
Speaker 2: it even more impressive how often they go first to
19:46
Speaker 2: third or you know, second to home, first to home.
19:50
Speaker 2: I'd like to see him steal a little more basis
19:52
Speaker 2: just because the theory that's out there most of the
19:57
Speaker 2: time is that you have to steal at a rate
19:59
Speaker 2: about seventy five percent. I don't have their success rate
20:03
Speaker 2: in front of me right now, but I'm pretty sure
20:05
Speaker 2: they're still well above that, which to me says you
20:07
Speaker 2: could probably go a little bit more. But I agree
20:12
Speaker 2: with Aj it's it's it's a separate thing.
20:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it. It means that they're, like I would
20:22
Speaker 1: be curious if they're going to continue that kind of
20:24
Speaker 1: like just a little bit more aggressiveness, kind of tow
20:28
Speaker 1: the line a little bit more, because I think.
20:31
Speaker 2: The Tigers have an eighty two percent stolen based success rate,
20:35
Speaker 2: which is the third best in baseball.
20:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is not sustainable.
20:38
Speaker 2: You want to, right, you want to keep that high,
20:42
Speaker 2: But that also says I don't know if you go
20:44
Speaker 2: from eighty two to seventy eight, but you're getting second
20:47
Speaker 2: based more often, that's probably worth it. And I think
20:50
Speaker 2: if you did a deeper study, it would confirm that.
20:53
Speaker 1: I would also think that in a playoff series, like
20:55
Speaker 1: you want that as a like a play essentially in
21:01
Speaker 1: your pocket, like like you know, not just McKinstry. You
21:04
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, Like you want to you want
21:06
Speaker 1: to be able to medals is on beer lanes on
21:09
Speaker 1: And this is a situation catcher, pitcher, whatever, score Like
21:13
Speaker 1: this is a situation where it might not be a
21:16
Speaker 1: bad idea, but I would like to see it happen
21:19
Speaker 1: a little bit or even a little bit more, just
21:21
Speaker 1: so that that's also part of the scouting report, you
21:25
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So just something that I'm going
21:28
Speaker 1: to be keeping an eye on. All right, We're going
21:30
Speaker 1: to transition to pitching grades. That's It's kind of an
21:33
Speaker 1: interesting one the more I thought about it.
21:35
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22:41
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, Cody, I wanted to actually
22:44
Speaker 1: start with Bullpen. I feel like, even though you know,
22:47
Speaker 1: not start with starter, but I want I wanted to
22:50
Speaker 1: start with Bullpen because this is the one this is
22:54
Speaker 1: the one area we talked about it a lot of
22:57
Speaker 1: past couple episodes that you are most concerned you, the
23:01
Speaker 1: general Tigers observer, are most concerned with, but also should
23:07
Speaker 1: have a decent amount of confidence in their ability to
23:10
Speaker 1: figure it out. So trying to trying to kind of
23:14
Speaker 1: center that idea, I think is probably the number one
23:18
Speaker 1: source of Tigers discourse. And there are a lot of
23:21
Speaker 1: ideas out there, and some of them are good and
23:23
Speaker 1: some of them are bad, but I think they're all
23:24
Speaker 1: kind of coming from the same place. Here's just one
23:30
Speaker 1: one element to kind of visualize it. They are eleventh
23:35
Speaker 1: in the American League and era the bullpen or relievers
23:39
Speaker 1: if you want to be more specific. Now, some of
23:41
Speaker 1: these numbers are going to be a little bit skewed
23:43
Speaker 1: because of openers and you know, things like that, so
23:46
Speaker 1: you know you can keep that in mind, but at
23:48
Speaker 1: the same time, that's not good. And then what's the
23:51
Speaker 1: number one concern for the bullpen not getting enough? They
23:55
Speaker 1: don't have a swing and mis guy really or need
23:58
Speaker 1: some more swing and miss. Well, they are thirteenth in
24:01
Speaker 1: strikeouts in the American League. So those are obviously bottom tier,
24:07
Speaker 1: bottom tier numbers, and I think we've always kind of said, well,
24:11
Speaker 1: they're a little top heavy. Have some guys you feel
24:15
Speaker 1: okay about, have been some good stories. There's a little
24:18
Speaker 1: bit of regression to the mean, and like Chase the
24:20
Speaker 1: LEAs of the world, but at the same time, like vest,
24:23
Speaker 1: you're still a guy you believe in. I think Kinlee
24:26
Speaker 1: is still a person that is highly useful. Maybe has
24:29
Speaker 1: probably been over extended a little bit. I talked about
24:32
Speaker 1: on that on the last episode. I think I'm going
24:39
Speaker 1: I think I'm going C plus here. Like if this
24:42
Speaker 1: was done two weeks ago, it probably would it could
24:45
Speaker 1: have been as high as a B plus, maybe even
24:47
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think I was going to get
24:49
Speaker 1: an A because of the depth, but like I think
24:52
Speaker 1: we've been I think we've been subject to old the
24:55
Speaker 1: concerns that were out there the past couple of weeks,
24:58
Speaker 1: and infrastructure pushes this to a C plus. I think
25:04
Speaker 1: if there wasn't Fetter and company in Hinch and even
25:06
Speaker 1: Harris and his staff, I think I might go lower.
25:10
Speaker 1: But like there's a confidence level that in some way
25:12
Speaker 1: this is going to get figured out. We talked about
25:15
Speaker 1: that on our last episode. So I'm going C plus
25:17
Speaker 1: for bullpen.
25:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I go a little lower. I think I'll go
25:21
Speaker 2: a hard See, it's been pretty bad the Tigers in
25:26
Speaker 2: the span of the broader view of Major League Baseball.
25:29
Speaker 2: I don't really like to look at stuff by league
25:31
Speaker 2: anymore because there's a balance schedule.
25:33
Speaker 1: You play everyone, but it's still your most direct peers.
25:36
Speaker 1: So that's why I do it, because you're you're not
25:38
Speaker 1: competing with the with the pirates for playoff positions, So
25:41
Speaker 1: that's why I do it.
25:42
Speaker 2: But you're right.
25:43
Speaker 3: It is balanced that you're right.
25:45
Speaker 2: So they're twenty first in bullpen the ra four out
25:48
Speaker 2: one three since June first. As I've pointed out, their
25:53
Speaker 2: BULLPENNIRA is over five. It's been one of the very
25:56
Speaker 2: worst in the league overall, with rate among relievers dead laugh,
26:00
Speaker 2: last thirtieth. That stuff's not that's that's not gonna play.
26:04
Speaker 2: That's not going to get you through the World Series.
26:06
Speaker 2: In a way, when you look at that, it's kind
26:09
Speaker 2: of amazing that Tigers have the best record in baseball
26:11
Speaker 2: because they have one of the ten nine or ten
26:14
Speaker 2: worst bullpens in baseball. I think it helped that they
26:17
Speaker 2: have been good at protecting leads, which speaks to vest Tanee.
26:22
Speaker 2: They haven't blown a lot of leads, but in tight
26:25
Speaker 2: games or you're trailing by one or two in the
26:27
Speaker 2: middle innings, doesn't seem like this bullpen has been built
26:31
Speaker 2: to succeed in that that that We've seen guys pitching
26:34
Speaker 2: Bridge Rolls really well getting the Tigers from the sixth
26:38
Speaker 2: to the eight and they haven't quite Chase Lee's done
26:41
Speaker 2: that a little bit, but they haven't quite had that guy,
26:44
Speaker 2: certainly not multiple guys. We are seeing Tiger Holton pitch
26:47
Speaker 2: a little bit better recently. I think that's huge, But
26:50
Speaker 2: the lack of swing and miss is still a big concern.
26:52
Speaker 2: You know. One of the great mysteries of what the
26:54
Speaker 2: Tigers did last season. They had the best era in
26:58
Speaker 2: baseball over August and September. They also had by far
27:02
Speaker 2: the lowest batting average and balls and play from August
27:05
Speaker 2: to September. And so my question something I thought a
27:08
Speaker 2: lot about this offseason into spring training, like where they
27:11
Speaker 2: just getting quote unquote lucky for two consecutive months, and
27:16
Speaker 2: then you start looking deeper and you start looking at
27:18
Speaker 2: stuff plus models, It's like wow, really, And you talk
27:21
Speaker 2: to some people and I think they had scientifically suppressed
27:25
Speaker 2: babbit a little bit just by throwing nasty sinkers and
27:30
Speaker 2: stuff like that. It's a little bit of an oversimplification,
27:33
Speaker 2: but then you look at this season and it hasn't
27:36
Speaker 2: carried over. Their babbit is pretty league average. It's two
27:40
Speaker 2: eighty six, fifteenth in the league. Actually, still a little
27:44
Speaker 2: bit below kind of conventional league average, which is two
27:47
Speaker 2: ninety to three hundred. But that's all to say they're
27:51
Speaker 2: not holding opponents to a two forty babbit anymore. Goes
27:57
Speaker 2: back to that you're gonna have to have more swinging
28:00
Speaker 2: to survive in this league, especially in smaller samples like
28:03
Speaker 2: the postseason.
28:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the smaller sample thing is something that you
28:09
Speaker 1: know keeps I don't want to say keeps me up
28:12
Speaker 1: at night, but if I if I have free range thought,
28:15
Speaker 1: that kind of that kind of goes over there, and
28:18
Speaker 1: again it starts out real small sample size as as
28:22
Speaker 1: we saw last year. All right, moving on to starting pitching,
28:27
Speaker 1: starting pitching, Tigers figured this was good. I mean, this
28:31
Speaker 1: was a influx. Yeah, I'm sorry being really recappy. Everybody
28:35
Speaker 1: like knows this or writer, but like you know, this
28:37
Speaker 1: was like you got more than what you know how
28:39
Speaker 1: to deal with. And if there was ever an example
28:42
Speaker 1: of a yeah, it's gonna get figured out on its
28:44
Speaker 1: on itself to pair a phrase Joe Tory, this would
28:48
Speaker 1: be obviously you have schoolbl like that that that raises
28:52
Speaker 1: your floor quite a bit miz being an All Star. Yes,
28:56
Speaker 1: he gave up the home run, but it was also
28:58
Speaker 1: nice to see him get a k all right, like.
29:00
Speaker 3: That was that that was really cool as well. May
29:02
Speaker 3: is being an All Star.
29:04
Speaker 1: You know, Joe out for the year, out for you know,
29:07
Speaker 1: however long that's gonna be. Obviously we don't know, but
29:10
Speaker 1: there were flashes of Joe, you know what I mean.
29:13
Speaker 1: Flaherty was a guy that you brought in and and
29:15
Speaker 1: he he's been i would say, ascending a little bit
29:20
Speaker 1: his past several starts.
29:23
Speaker 3: There.
29:23
Speaker 1: I've been some missus Maida in general. I know it's
29:27
Speaker 1: kind of both, but we have to mention a. Maida
29:29
Speaker 1: in general was obviously a miss and we you know,
29:34
Speaker 1: Dietrich it was fun while less, you know what I mean,
29:39
Speaker 1: Montero with the plan with him is still you know,
29:41
Speaker 1: kind of doing both guys here, but you know, guys
29:43
Speaker 1: at least kind of profile is staring pictures. It's you know,
29:47
Speaker 1: Reese Olsen hasn't really been allowed to get going. We'll
29:49
Speaker 1: see He's gonna kick off the second half of the
29:52
Speaker 1: season down in Texas. There's a lot more room to
29:57
Speaker 1: grow with this squad, but they also don't have the
30:02
Speaker 1: arsenal that we thought they were going to have coming
30:07
Speaker 1: into the year, with injuries and and and play and such.
30:13
Speaker 1: I kind of think I'm going B plus here. I'm
30:16
Speaker 1: going to be plus because my expectations were high and
30:19
Speaker 1: they've been quite good. But and the mice thing is awesome,
30:25
Speaker 1: but the depth has been tested in a way that
30:28
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to go with an A. But
30:30
Speaker 1: if you're interested in some in some counting numbers, their
30:33
Speaker 1: third and opponent average, they are and this is American League,
30:38
Speaker 1: obviously fourth in strikeouts and in era they are I
30:42
Speaker 1: believe it's third.
30:43
Speaker 3: Double checking, yes, they are third.
30:47
Speaker 1: They like the hitting, there's a lot you just look
30:49
Speaker 1: at the numbers and it's like they kind of tell
30:51
Speaker 1: the story. But if you're thinking about how you feel
30:55
Speaker 1: and then you're projecting out a little bit, it can
30:58
Speaker 1: be a little bit tougher. So I'm going I'm going
31:00
Speaker 1: B plus, which is weird for a staff that has
31:03
Speaker 1: Ye the cy young favorite and another All Star. But
31:07
Speaker 1: I just I wanted to see more from more guys
31:11
Speaker 1: I'm confident in to give a name.
31:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is easily the hardest one to
31:17
Speaker 2: grade because they have the sixth best rotation era in baseball.
31:21
Speaker 2: They have a cy young favorite, they had an All Star,
31:24
Speaker 2: but that word top heavy kind of comes back around.
31:27
Speaker 2: It'd be really nice if he still had Jackson job ascending.
31:31
Speaker 2: Unfortunately he's on the shelf. Jack Flaherty, he's been a
31:34
Speaker 2: lot better lately, but he's been up and down second
31:37
Speaker 2: half last season. Gives me some some worry and like,
31:41
Speaker 2: just what does Jack flerity look like in September? Montero
31:47
Speaker 2: Reestulson has a two nine to five r now, but
31:50
Speaker 2: he's only made eleven starts. I think this all adds
31:53
Speaker 2: up to why I'm gonna get it a B. The
31:56
Speaker 2: raw performance good right, three point three four to three
32:01
Speaker 2: rotation era the reason I'm gonna be though, Let's look
32:04
Speaker 2: at the innings logged by Tigers starters ranks twenty third
32:09
Speaker 2: in the league. Now that two is a little bit
32:11
Speaker 2: skewed based on openers. If a guy goes one inning,
32:15
Speaker 2: that goes down as one inning for the starter. Ker
32:17
Speaker 2: Montero's four innings or whatever are not accounted for in this,
32:22
Speaker 2: but that also speaks to that's somewhat by design, that's
32:25
Speaker 2: somewhat out of the Tigers have designed things This also
32:28
Speaker 2: speaks to you've had a decent amount of short starts
32:30
Speaker 2: other than Schoogle, how many times of other guys really
32:34
Speaker 2: gotten you deep into games. That's still I think an
32:38
Speaker 2: important measure of the strength of a rotation, And right
32:40
Speaker 2: now the Tigers don't have a rotation that is doing that.
32:45
Speaker 2: Even if you look at their overall innings, how much
32:47
Speaker 2: of that is skewed by the outlier that is Trek Scougle.
32:51
Speaker 2: He's thrown one hundred and twenty one innings. Only one
32:54
Speaker 2: other player has reached one hundred. That's Jack Flaherty. You're
32:58
Speaker 2: just not a outside Schooble. You don't have horses carrying
33:02
Speaker 2: you deep into games. You're trying to either be creative
33:07
Speaker 2: with opener strategies or get through five. But then you're
33:10
Speaker 2: turning over things to a bullpen that has not been
33:13
Speaker 2: that good, a bullpen that probably has not been that
33:15
Speaker 2: good in part because it's been used a lot because
33:19
Speaker 2: a combination of injuries and other factors, guys not throwing
33:22
Speaker 2: that well. Like all all, all of this is related.
33:27
Speaker 2: So the big thing that comes up is the lack
33:29
Speaker 2: of innings you were getting from your starters. That's why
33:32
Speaker 2: I'm getting it a be despite good raw numbers.
33:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think a good way to put it.
33:40
Speaker 1: If you're a gambling man, you can say bet on.
33:42
Speaker 1: If you're not a gambling man, you can say steak
33:44
Speaker 1: your reputation on. Like besides Schooble and you gotta be
33:49
Speaker 1: and you gotta gotta have a game of something like
33:51
Speaker 1: who are you staking your reputation on? There's arguments to
33:55
Speaker 1: be made for several but there, but there's no there's
33:58
Speaker 1: no like you know, slammed dumb case there.
34:01
Speaker 3: And I think that that's kind of.
34:02
Speaker 1: Like the way to put it with with with respect
34:04
Speaker 1: to schoobl who you know, by the way, is we're
34:06
Speaker 1: gonna start to get a whole lot of I don't
34:10
Speaker 1: want to say campaigning, but there's gonna be like.
34:13
Speaker 3: You know, shouldn't Hunter Brown be the cy young favorite,
34:18
Speaker 3: you know, Garrett Crochet.
34:19
Speaker 1: And by the way, these guys all have have had
34:21
Speaker 1: amazing seasons and have great claims, but that's gonna start
34:25
Speaker 1: to come a little bit.
34:26
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just scoopl is gonna have to continue
34:29
Speaker 2: pitching at a really high level. But he leads the
34:31
Speaker 2: league in strikeouts, walk ratio, strikeouts for nine walks per
34:35
Speaker 2: nine whip fip like war these other guys here just
34:41
Speaker 2: like our r e ras that take lower.
34:44
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna it's gonna be a thing, all right,
34:48
Speaker 1: front office Cody, just to rehash every some of the
34:52
Speaker 1: moves that the that the Tigers have made.
34:55
Speaker 3: They brought in Alex Cobb.
34:56
Speaker 1: We're not gonna grade each one, but I would say
34:59
Speaker 1: that's probably no an a uh Labor Torres, Jami Jones,
35:04
Speaker 1: Thomas Nido, John Breba, Tommy Tommy Canley, Jack Flaherty. These
35:11
Speaker 1: are some high end uh contributors to a team, and
35:15
Speaker 1: then some you know, nice little spot contributors, and then
35:19
Speaker 1: somebody who for reasons that maren necessarily their fault, have
35:23
Speaker 1: contributed nothing. So uh so those are and then obviously
35:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot of moves on the margin. I know
35:31
Speaker 1: I'm over simplifying it, but this this is sort of
35:34
Speaker 1: similar to coaching in my opinion, where it's like, how
35:36
Speaker 1: harsh can you be when this is a team that's
35:38
Speaker 1: been constructed over the course of a couple of years,
35:42
Speaker 1: that has put themselves in position to be heavily division
35:45
Speaker 1: favorites division you know, favorites to have the best record
35:48
Speaker 1: in the American League like second or third, you know,
35:52
Speaker 1: World Series odds at midseason, Like how.
35:54
Speaker 3: Harsh can you be?
35:56
Speaker 1: I'm going sort of similar, I'm going a minus just
35:59
Speaker 1: to have of like there's you know, nobody's bat in
36:02
Speaker 1: a thousand doing this, you know, So like I said
36:05
Speaker 1: the same thing with the A plus, but at the
36:07
Speaker 1: same time, you got the best record in baseball. You've
36:11
Speaker 1: been doing this a couple of years. The farm system,
36:13
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna bump it up to an A
36:15
Speaker 1: the farms. I'm gonna include the farm system in there
36:17
Speaker 1: as well as you know, some of the highlights. Clark
36:20
Speaker 1: Rassinio McGonagall number one guy in Baseball America's prospect list.
36:24
Speaker 1: So like, I'm bumping up to an A in the
36:26
Speaker 1: moment here, but you can't be an A plus when
36:29
Speaker 1: we just talked about the lack of depth and starting pitching,
36:31
Speaker 1: and when the guy you paid fifteen million dollars has
36:34
Speaker 1: yet to log an ending.
36:35
Speaker 2: So yeah, this is a hard one too, because again
36:38
Speaker 2: we're talking about the team with the best record in baseball.
36:43
Speaker 2: But then you go through like, well, what did the
36:45
Speaker 2: front office do to improve the major league product this year?
36:48
Speaker 2: And it's like well, Glaber and Kinley have been very good,
36:51
Speaker 2: and Cop has been a huge miss. John Breva is
36:54
Speaker 2: no longer on your team. The strength of this front
36:58
Speaker 2: office has been continues to be the smaller things, the
37:03
Speaker 2: few games you got out of Thomas Nido, the production
37:06
Speaker 2: you've gotten from Jami Jones. Let's go to the bullpen.
37:12
Speaker 2: Chase Lee great example that was last year's trade deadline.
37:15
Speaker 2: I don't know the open mindedness to bring in the
37:17
Speaker 2: guy like Dietrich GenZ who won you one game at
37:21
Speaker 2: the major league level. I don't know identifying a guy
37:25
Speaker 2: like Bailey Horn who's only thrown two winnings, you know,
37:28
Speaker 2: but you've had some success like these little things that
37:31
Speaker 2: probably add up to three or four wins over the
37:34
Speaker 2: course of the first half. But then I look and
37:36
Speaker 2: it's like, well, we've talked about this bullpen and it's
37:39
Speaker 2: been taxed and this and that. Scott Harris, known for
37:43
Speaker 2: the waiver wire, has only brought in one guy, and
37:46
Speaker 2: it's Carlos Hernandez and he has been terrible. So it's like,
37:50
Speaker 2: I think there's a case they should have made some
37:54
Speaker 2: sort of addition earlier over the past month to help
37:58
Speaker 2: fortify this pin a little bit. If I'm grading on strictly,
38:04
Speaker 2: how has this front office impacted the major league roster
38:08
Speaker 2: this season? I think I'd have to say more like
38:10
Speaker 2: a B maybe B plus when you really think of
38:14
Speaker 2: how good glabor Torres has been. What a great signing Kaneley.
38:19
Speaker 2: I know he struggled recently, but man, imagine without Tommy Gainley.
38:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, it Then you bump. Then you're like, well,
38:28
Speaker 2: they're the best team in the baseball. They have maybe
38:30
Speaker 2: the best farm system in baseball. You consider the whole
38:33
Speaker 2: conglomerate of the past couple of years, I think I'd
38:37
Speaker 2: have to go a minus. So it's kind of two
38:39
Speaker 2: different rubrics there.
38:42
Speaker 1: For like, you know, does the front office I don't
38:45
Speaker 1: think I've ever phrased it to you like this, does
38:47
Speaker 1: the front office get credit for Torq having twenty two
38:50
Speaker 1: or whatever home runs at the All Star Break?
38:53
Speaker 2: Yeah?
38:53
Speaker 1: The old motivator, you know, like you forced Torque to
38:57
Speaker 1: finally finally Yah.
39:00
Speaker 2: Maybe just some of the messaging to him too. If
39:03
Speaker 2: I had to guess, without sitting in on every meeting,
39:07
Speaker 2: that's probably goes more coaching staff. The coaches I'm sure
39:11
Speaker 2: had more daily dialogue with him. The hitting coaches Michael
39:14
Speaker 2: Bertar and he'll put in a ton of work with
39:16
Speaker 2: Torque directly in Arizona this offseason. Keep Beauregard. They we
39:22
Speaker 2: didn't talk about that when grading the coaches. They get
39:24
Speaker 2: a lot of credit I think for the the resurgence
39:27
Speaker 2: of Spencer Togles and Hobby Bias and all those.
39:31
Speaker 1: Guys, Zach McKinstry, and then like we're not gonna We're
39:35
Speaker 1: going to wrap up here. But you know, if you
39:36
Speaker 1: were to do a most Improved award, there's a lot
39:39
Speaker 1: of candidates.
39:40
Speaker 2: It's a tough one on this team. I want to
39:43
Speaker 2: give it to, but I think you have to give
39:45
Speaker 2: it to Hobby Bias because he was the worst qualifying
39:48
Speaker 2: hitter in baseball and now he's pretty good.
39:50
Speaker 1: Not only that, but the steady improvement over two years, well,
39:53
Speaker 1: you know, it's not strict to this season of col
39:55
Speaker 1: Keith is something that is a feather in their cap
39:58
Speaker 1: as well. So so yeah, hopefully some of that triculates
40:03
Speaker 1: over to the Parker Meadows of the world. Again, We're
40:05
Speaker 1: going to talk next week about, like you know, some
40:08
Speaker 1: of the big storylines that we're looking for in the
40:11
Speaker 1: second half of the season. In a way that's going
40:13
Speaker 1: to define this Tiger's team. But anything positive we said,
40:18
Speaker 1: anything negative we said over the past like forty minutes
40:21
Speaker 1: or so. It was a lot of fun to watch
40:22
Speaker 1: this team. It's a lot of fun to talk about
40:24
Speaker 1: this team. It's a lot of fun to see these
40:27
Speaker 1: guys grow or just like have these like you know,
40:31
Speaker 1: meteoric rises right before our eyes. And we appreciate all
40:34
Speaker 1: you guys for following us along at Cody Stavenhagen, at
40:36
Speaker 1: Kiran Underscore s Dectly pod pages, at Tiger Territory Underscore, YouTube, Instagram, Apple, Spotify,
40:43
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
40:44
Speaker 3: You guys know what to do.
40:45
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you. So for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm
40:49
Speaker 1: Kieran Steckley. Everybody have great dech