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How to Navigate the Messy Middle (with Stephanie O'Brien-Martin) · The Daily Writer

0:07
SPEAKER_02: Hey friends, welcome to episode 82 of the Born to Create Podcast.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: My name is Kent Sanders and I'm an author, professor, and creative consultant.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: This is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Do you ever feel like you're caught between where you are and where you want to be?
0:27
SPEAKER_02: Are you frustrated because you see your potential, but you feel stuck in the present moment with no clear way forward?
0:34
SPEAKER_02: If so, you're going to love this amazing conversation that I have in store for you.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Stephanie O'Brien Martin.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: She's the founder of Moved by Purpose, and she coaches Christ-centered leaders and entrepreneurs who realize they need a different approach to how they achieve and succeed.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Through her life experiences, professional training, and her counterintuitive way of working with people already considered successful, Stephanie guides people to anchor and align their lives in a new way by stepping back from the pace and pressure that got them to their current level of achievements and align with God's plans and purposes for them.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie is a master certified life coach and author of the fantastic book, The Messy Middle, encouraging you through the frustrating gap between where you are now and where you want to be.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie is married, lives in the Detroit, Michigan area, and she loves coffee.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Some of the topics that we talk about in our conversation are why Stephanie wrote her book, The Messy Middle, the danger of being distracted by people's success stories on social media, how to deal with people who are jealous of your success, the importance of not being a negative person in somebody else's life, and much more.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: After the conversation, be sure to check out the show notes at KentSanders.net slash podcast eighty-two.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: That's KentSanders.net slash podcast 082.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: So as I'm recording this, I'm sitting in my home office.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm a college professor, so during the summers I have a lot of flexible time and I work from home pretty much all summer.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: So I'm recording a batch of podcast episodes right now.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm actually recording this episode on June the 18th, 2019.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: It is currently 12 52 p.m.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: But I'm going to backdate this, I think, uh back to April or May or sometime.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: So what happened is that I got way behind on my podcast episodes.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: I got really busy with some client work, several projects for multiple clients, as well as my own writing and some things with my day job.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: And I just could not release a batch of episodes on time, so I'm actually kind of playing catch up.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: And as I'm recording this, outside there is a guy mowing his lawn, and my next door neighbor is getting his house roofed today, so there's guys pounding on the roof and it's really noisy.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: And but I'm sitting here recording this, and I just want to encourage you to create in the midst of chaos.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it means that you've got to catch up on work that you're behind on, as I'm doing, as I'm batching a bunch of podcast episodes.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Now, when you see the release date of those, that won't be apparent, but I'm recording these kind of in one big lump, about 10 or 12 episodes.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: You've got stuff in your life that maybe you're behind on or things that don't seem like it's the perfect situation, but I just want to encourage you to go ahead and create, as we're going to talk about in in the conversation in a few minutes, just create within the messy middle.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Just do the work.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Sit down at and at your desk or in your studio or wherever it is that you do your creative work and just do it.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be in the most awesome mood.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Life doesn't have to be perfect.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, everything doesn't have all the stars don't have to align.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: But just sit down and get it done.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: It's all about doing the work on a daily basis.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: And to be honest with you, I got way behind on my podcast, and now I'm sort of paying the price for that and catching up on a bunch of stuff.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: But here I am today, I'm doing the work, I'm sitting down and recording this, bringing this to you, and I'm doing it in the midst of a lot of noise outside and sort of some other chaos going on in my life.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's all good.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: That's that's how we get the creative work done.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: So I just want to encourage you wherever you are with that, to just go ahead and do the work.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: Even though it's imperfect, even though it's not exactly going to be the way that you would like it, it's all okay because it's just about doing the work and putting it out there for other people to experience.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Now, one of the dangers of doing that though is doing it by yourselves.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly why I have created a Facebook group called the Born to Create Community.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: And you can check this out at Kent Sanders.net slash Facebook group.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: That's KentSanders.net slash Facebook group.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: That is a link that'll actually go directly to the Facebook group.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Just hit request to join, and I will approve you to join the group.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: There are less than 100 people in this group, so it's kind of a small intimate group, but man, I'd I love the guys in this group.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: We have a great time just sharing ideas and encouraging each other in our creative journey.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: So make sure and check out that link.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: That'll also be in the show notes.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Now before we get to the interview, I want to um take a few minutes to answer a listener question.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: This was sent in by my good friend Mark Gravisky.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: Mark is a pastor and author and also the host of the Parables That Preach podcast.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: There will be a link to that in the show notes, so make sure and check that out.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Mark asks this question.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: He says, Making my creative life a priority is a challenge.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Between my children, wife, work, and exercise, I don't schedule enough time for my creative life.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: And man, Mark, I can so relate to that.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Now I know that you have a couple of factors in your life that make it difficult to schedule big blocks of time.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: One is that you have several young kids at home, and also you're a pastor, which by definition means that you're your work isn't just scheduled from 9 to 5.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: I've been a pastor before, and I teach at a Christian college, of course.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Mark knows all this, but for those who are listening, they may not know that.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm very much within the realm of ministry life.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm not a pastor right now, but I'm I'm around pastors all the time.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: And my my brother's a pastor, that's my own background.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: So I have a pretty keen awareness of just the crazy schedule that sometimes pastors keep.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: So I know in your creative life that is a big challenge.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: So I want to give you two simple suggestions for how to get your creative work actually done.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think these suggestions will be helpful to anybody who's listening no matter what their life situation.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So two simple strategies.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, they're simple in the concepts, but they're not always simple to apply.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: So here's number one, think in terms of pockets of time, not big chunks of time.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: I know in my life I'm tempted to get discouraged if I can't find like a five-hour block of time to just sit down and write or work on podcasting or other stuff during the week.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: But maybe sometimes we're thinking in we're thinking in terms of too big of chunks of time.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Thinking in little chunks can be really helpful.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: For example, is there a 30-minute window during your day that you can use to fill your creative well or to do some creative work?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Is there maybe even a 15-minute window where you can work on your podcast or some writing or read a book?
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we think that 15 minutes is not a chunk of time that's worthwhile, but you can actually get a lot of stuff done in a focused 15-minute block of time.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: For example, sometimes if you're waiting for a meeting to happen, or you're waiting to pick up somebody from from waiting to pick up a kid from school, or maybe you'd have dropped your spouse off to go shopping, or and you're waiting in the car, or maybe you're waiting at the DMV to get your license renewed, or whatever it is.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: We have these little blocks of time during our day that sometimes we just kind of throw away.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we're playing on our phone or we're just sort of zoning out or whatever.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: But those can be super valuable for getting things done.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I think if you add up all those little wasted moments during the day, probably we all have about an at least an hour of day.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: An hour of time each day where we're just not using that time very well.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: I know I'm guilty of that, and I just want to throw that idea out there to think in terms of little chunks of time and not necessarily huge chunks.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: So that's the first suggestion is little chunks of time and strategy number two for getting creative work done is to schedule it on your calendar.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: There's a saying that goes, what gets scheduled tends to get done.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: At least I think that's how it goes.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: If that's not how it goes, then somebody correct me, but the gist of the idea is the same that when we put things on our calendar, those are the things if we file a work calendar that do tend to get done.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: And that may mean that we have to make hard choices about things that we don't do.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of times being an artist and a creative is as much about the things that we put on our stopdoing list as it is regarding things that we put on our to-do list.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: So when you're a pastor, I know that's hard because you don't control your schedule the whole week.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes things happen and you have to respond to emergencies and that sort of thing.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's just part of part of life, I realize.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: So start with small pockets of time, but then also schedule some blocks of time on your calendar that you're pretty sure you'll have to yourself.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: It may be, you know, a block of time in the evening after the kids go to bed.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: It may be in the early morning, it may be during lunchtime, but try to block out a couple of times on your calendar each week where you can spend some focused time creating, reading, or doing things that fill up your creative well.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Again, it's not always going to work.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Life happens, and we all realize that, but give those two suggestions a shot and let me know what you think.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: Mark, thanks for sending in your question, and I'll be sending you an ebook and an audiobook of the artist suitcase, my previous book.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: And for everybody else listening, if you have a question about the creative life, habits, mindset, productivity, or writing, you can submit your question by going to Kent Sanders.net slash podcast and filling out the question form, and that will come right to my email inbox.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: And if I use your question on the podcast, I'll send you a free copy of my book, The Artist Suitcase, via audiobook and digital copy.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's get to the conversation with Stephanie O'Brien Martin.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, Stephanie, welcome to the podcast.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm really thrilled to be able to talk with you after interacting with you for several months online back and forth about uh various things.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: It's uh just really fun to be able to chat with you.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Kent.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: It is an honor to be trusted by you to share about who I am and what I do with your audience, and I really appreciate the work that you do.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks very much.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: I do want to, before I get into some specific questions, uh a couple things related to your book, which is called The Messy Middle.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: First of all, congratulations on writing a book, which is a huge goal.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: And second of second of all, I want to tell you that I this is a great book.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: As I was going through it, I thought, this is like an x-ray for my soul because you know, like she somehow she has been into my journals.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if she's broken into my house and stole my journals or what's going on, but but it's like you know, she is is reading my mind as far as you know the mindset of a creative person and an artist and how we all think about the middle of projects and stuff.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: So really awesome job on this book.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm really proud of what you've accomplished with this.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And I get that feedback a lot.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: So you're breaking into people's houses on a regular basis.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I'm used to like human emotions and the art of creating is actually a messy process.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people admire a complete finished work, but very few, unless they are building something or creating something, really understand what's behind that and what really went into that work.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: So can you take a couple of minutes and share the journey that went into creating this book in the first place?
12:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's called the messy middle, so that obviously is indicating, hey, there's a messiness to this process.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: And and I know, you know, I've read some of your story and um really appreciate that.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: So if you can kind of share with the listeners what led up to the book and and why you wrote it.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: So my story, um, you know, I I started off my career a very typical way, following the career plan and path that society lays out for you.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: You um go to college, graduate, get your job, and live happily ever after.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And that I realized was not my reality at all.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And um the career I had selected was social work because other people had realized that like you have a gift, you have a gift of really deeply connecting with people, um, which is funny, you know.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people will say, like, you're in my mind, what on earth?
13:18
SPEAKER_00: And um just you have this gift and you would make a great counselor one day, and so um, not knowing anything about entrepreneurship or really creating, I never called myself a creative, or um I just followed that path and found that I was very unfulfilled in that because it wasn't really letting me use my God-given gifts and talents in the way that really ignited my soul and the way that I saw it touched other lives, which was such a blessing to me.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, so to make a very long story short, I we know Dan Miller with 48 Days to the Work You Love.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you have discontent in your career, that's the book to read.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: And um, I I started reading it and um and really just searching for what can I do with this gift of mine that isn't this, because I know like this, what I'm doing, and this plan that I thought that I had would work isn't working.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's when I learned about coaching.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And so I started this journey, and it was funny because that was when I knew I was like, oh yes, this is it.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: I know this is it, this is this is my life's work, this is my purpose.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: And so I began building this with this um delusional thought.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay, that it was going to be well, ignorant.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Um I understand and I relate.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: That it was going to be easy, that it was going to be fast, um, that because it was my purpose and what I'm here on earth to do, that everything was going to be blessed and prosperous, and everything I touched would succeed.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And that was not at all the reality.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So um I'm I'm like, I'm like, okay, I know that this is what I'm here on earth to do.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know this is what I'm called to do.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: Why is it so hard?
15:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was filled with setbacks and heartbreak and discouragement and wanting to quit and being confused and overwhelmed and a lot of emotional angst um that's actually quite exhausting because it shouldn't be this way, it's not supposed to be this way, so I thought.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is what inspired me to write this book.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I would see a lot of these people that were very successful and lots of success stories, and it all looked so easy.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: They all made it look like it was fast and easy.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: That if you bought this plan and did this, then you would have this success too.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Yet I would do that, and that was not my result.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you get into thinking something's wrong with me.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Maybe everything I thought was totally incorrect, and maybe I should just give up and go back to safe traditional employment or work or um, you know, rethink this whole thing altogether.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's what inspired it.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it was through it was through my angst and pain and and learning um and capturing these thoughts.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was journaling, a lot of this was my own journal, so that's funny because you're like, oh, did you read my journal?
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, I read mine, um, and then observing that there's a lot of people going through this, and not a whole lot talking about it in a public way, yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just felt like um people need this, they need to know that they're not crazy, and they need to know that they will get through the other side.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't know when that's gonna take and how long that will be and what that's even gonna look like for you.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've seen too many people give up in the messy middle um and never make it to the other side.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: And this is where dreams die.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's what were you gonna say?
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I think that is well, you're prompting a lot of different thoughts in my mind, actually.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: One one major thought that that I had was so many times I've sit back and been discouraged about something, whether it be something with, you know, the blog or podcast or a book or something with a client or my own lack of motivation or whatever it is, and I just sit back and go, what's wrong with me?
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Why can't I do this?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Why does it seem so simple?
18:36
SPEAKER_02: So it's really refreshing to hear somebody just kind of call that out and be honest, and and just to hear that other people have asked themselves the same thing too.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's great to hear that, hey, maybe there's nothing wrong with this, maybe it's just this is this is the normal creative process that it is messy and it is frustrating and it is gonna be difficult.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: So maybe that's just the realization that we need to have is it is hard and we shouldn't expect it to be easy.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: And I love the inspiration and the motivation and like the pump up and the pep talk.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: That totally is appropriate, and there's a time and place for it.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was very hesitant to even release this book because in the middle of it, I was like, I asked my editor, I was like, this kind of feels like a downer.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's kind of like highlighting like all the negative stuff that nobody wants to hear or really know.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: And she was just really encouraging and said, but people need to hear it, they need to know it because this is the reality.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: This is what this process is.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I'll I'll be brave and release it.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: So well, I'm glad that you did because I relate to everything that you're saying in the book.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: And something I wanted to ask about, you hit on this just a minute ago, kind of in passing, was the idea of being distracted or discouraged by people's success stories.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: And that's actually one of the symptoms that you talk about in the book.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: So you mentioned four symptoms distorted thinking, dramatic emotional states, distraction by other people's success, and the dread of trying and failing, all of which I relate to, but can you elaborate on this idea of being distracted by people's success stories?
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh yes, I can.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Um that is okay, so in the world of social media, um it is so easy to get sucked into these extreme images that are constantly portrayed in front of us.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Um the highlight reels of these people's lives.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: You're seeing all of these massive wins and huge things, and then you can see on the other dramatic swing of things some pretty dark trauma um as well.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: So you like you're seeing this, this there's it's filled with just extreme, extreme things about life constantly.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: And if you're marketing your business at all on social media or just on social media at all, like this can really mess with our thinking.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: That is so true.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: It really messes with us because our our brain is just constantly bombarded with these things that tell us that we are wrong, that we are missing out, that we are doing something wrong, that we're not good enough, that we need to try harder, do more.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, and while I do like sitting back and learning from our mistakes and um Taking a moment to assess what could I do differently or do I need to do differently, if at all.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Um I I think a lot of times we don't need to assess that much and um make it all about like what we're not doing and what they're doing right and what they have and that what we don't have.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And that honestly will just suck a lot of creative energy out of you.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know if this is your experience, but you know, there and I'm just kind of confessing publicly.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: This is sort of like uh a public confessional, I guess.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: So I almost need to call a priest or something.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: But you know, there have been times, and maybe you can relate to this, where you see somebody's win on social media, and by social media I mostly mean Facebook because that's where I tend to hang out the most.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: Um but you see somebody's win, but then in your mind you go, you know, to to try and take them down a peg in your own mind, you go, well, I know this about them, so maybe they're not so great, or you know, uh I saw them do this, and well, I know this about their story, and that's really not entirely accurate what they're presenting.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: But it's like you see this darkness within your own spirit of uh you see somebody else's win that may be totally legitimate, but yet there's this impulse that we have to tear people down instead of just saying, hey, that's awesome that they had a win.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: What can I learn from that or how can I support them?
23:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know how to get rid of that impulse totally.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we never really get rid of it, maybe we just learn to manage it somehow.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that those thoughts are very um natural kind of snap reactions in a human mind to it's a self-preservation, it's part of um kind of like the ego's job to protect and self-preserve.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we can totally manage it.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll get those snap thoughts from time to time, and then I'm like, what am I doing?
24:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't know this, I don't know this about them.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: That's totally not fair.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: They deserve that or they have earned that, and that doesn't mean anything about me, and it doesn't mean anything about them, like in and it's just watching the judgment.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're aware of that.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Awareness is key.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: It's it's um people are not always aware of what they're thinking, and this is like the dark rabbit hole that it can go down.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but your awareness, you can just help like note that you have thought that and then shift it.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: You can create or start thinking a different thought, and the more you do that, the more um the negative train of thought, like the less you're on the negative direction, yeah.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Um of that train of thought.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: And you I always say you can always jump off the train.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: It's just like the more you practice it, the quicker you realize like you stepped on the train and you're gonna get off.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: We're not even gonna take off very far here.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: So hope that helps.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really does.
25:16
SPEAKER_02: And I I find myself slipping into that negative mentality sometimes on social media, but yet I wonder sometimes okay, are the things that I'm posting about myself or my life or a win that I've had or something, you know, are am I being totally honest about those, or am I framing that as, oh, I'm so great and I'm I've just had this win or something.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it it does cut both ways, I think.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: And we have to be careful about how we're presenting ourselves and presenting sort of an honest picture.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and this is a huge thing, and I love that you want to have an honest presentation of where you're at.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: And I have found I check myself with every post.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I am I do an honest assessment of where my motives are, and I am like, am I doing this to get attention, to try to prove something to somebody, to try to build myself up somehow, which this is not the way, um, or am I doing this to help somebody to inspire them and lift them up?
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And is there anything in here that could be at all like mis um misleading?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, you can't always control what the mind, other people's minds interpret.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: That's that's impossible, but you can do the best you can to really kind of do that honest assessment of what is my motive, what is my intention, um, what am I wanting to accomplish with this?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: And is there any smoke and mirrors in here?
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Great question.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything misleading or misguiding or potentially making a portrayal of something that is not accurate?
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And I really like doing that.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it really helps me keep things in check.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: At the same time, we have to kind of be careful that like we can't live life um constantly trying to coddle everybody's feelings.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, if there's a victory, own the victory.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to apologize for a great success and hide out because it may trigger somebody and make them feel bad because they're not there yet and they get jealous.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Um so there's that sweet balance, you know, and I'm still learning it.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: Now let me drill down a little bit on this idea of our relationships with other people and how we deal with those in when we're in you know the messy middle as you frame it.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: And I I love that title, by the way.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: It's just a really great title.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that was what you originally were going to call it, but you know, just marketing-wise, congrats on a great title.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: I get that feedback a lot by book uh like authors or other people in the book industry.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: They're like great title.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I love the cover too.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: It's a really good cover.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: So very nice.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: But I wanted to to ask you specifically, so in in the book, and I'm sorry, I don't I didn't write down what page this was.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm a college professor, so I should know better than this.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not I'm I'm very sloppy in my research here.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I wrote this down uh from your book.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: You said you were talking about uh that our pursuit of success in the usual manner starts to fade when we realize a few things are going on, and you list several things, but one of the things that you mentioned are as an obstacle success is uh, as you call it, disdain from friends and colleagues.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh and I was really struck by that because uh and I wanted to ask you about that specifically.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: How do we deal in our lives with people in our families or colleagues or friends, people who know us on a personal level?
29:09
SPEAKER_02: How do we deal with those people who are jealous of our success or they don't like what we're doing?
29:14
SPEAKER_02: They in other words, it bothers them that we're tr trying to strive for being creative or trying to strive for success in some way.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: How have you dealt with that in your own life?
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this was a very huge area for me to really learn on a very deep level how to navigate through this.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Um so what I have come to learn is that when we give ourselves permission to dare to create and dream and live a life that we want, um that and other people are stuck, um, maybe don't have the courage, they're they're locked in the prison of their own mind.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, good phrase.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Um they when you dare to show up and I call it shine bright and really step into who you are and who you were created to be.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes that light, when people are in darkness, that light provokes them.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is powerful.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I learned.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I realized like it is not about me, it's about them.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: And that they're in darkness, they're hurting, they're wounded, they're afraid, they're not giving themselves permission, they're not loving themselves enough to dare to do what you're doing.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: And so when they're around you, you reflect what they are not doing.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like a referendum on their own lack of success.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, the lack of action, um, their lack of willingness to step out and want.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I find that people that are stepping up and rising, even though they may get, you know, they're they're they're less likely to get um upset with your success because they're taking action themselves.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: But when people are very stuck, um, you know, they've been in a miserable, miserable job for 30 years and complaining about it, but have done nothing to change that, and you're over here daring to create and build this exciting life, um it really agitates people that are stuck, that are, that are stuck.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I've learned like some people just don't like it.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Um I love them anyway.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: And you've gotta be strong and not, I know, it and do your best to not let it get to you.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: And the stronger you are and the more you believe in yourself and the work that you're doing, the less that bothers you.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's I I quote in the book um Nehemiah 6.3, I am doing a great work and I cannot come down.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love that because that disdain is typically people trying to bring you down.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And that is where you've got to learn, I am doing a great work.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: You focus on that, you call them up to you, not you go down to them.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, and in some ways that can actually motivate us.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: There was a couple years ago, a good friend of mine was they were having dinner with another old friend of mine who I hadn't actually seen in a while.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: So, friend number one, the one who is nice to me, they were uh you know, they were having dinner with friend number two who who you know was not being nice to me.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: And anyway, friend number two was telling friend number one, this is back when I released my last book, they were kind of like um talking smack about it and saying, Oh, this was stupid, he th thinks he wants to be a writer, and this is just a stupid little book he's doing, and what what's the point?
33:39
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be successful.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: And I hadn't even talked to friend number two in a long time.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: And it was so weird because when friend number one was telling me this, I thought, wow, you know, there's there's not only a lot of pain in that person's heart, but it really motivated me to think, oh yeah, well I'm gonna show them I'm gonna work even twice as hard now to try and make this successful.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: So there is a sense in which we can let that negativity drag us down, or we we can let it build us up and to be a better person, which is what Nehemiah did, of course.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, just like knowing what they're doing, he knew what those people were doing that were trying to tempt him with fear and lie and accuse and slander his motives and manipulate and control all of that nonsense.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: He knew what he was doing.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: He saw right through it.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: He's like, no, I'm not, I'm not coming down to that.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: So I I get that.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: There are people, and you know, sometimes now I'm I'm getting I'm the more confident I am in who I am, the more um lovingly boldly I'll say the um that I am with people that will make comments like that.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: And um I'll just straight up ask them questions about that.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, why does my efforts bother you so much?
35:11
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Um start those questions with I'm curious.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: It it takes the defense away.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: So um instead of like, what makes my efforts, you know, you're just like, I'm just curious.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Like come from a place of curiosity, and like what it does is it exposes like they realize that they're um it's about them.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's really good.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: Um there are times when I do podcast interviews, and it doesn't happen every interview, but there are times whenever somebody says something that really throws me for a loop in a good way.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: And what you just said that really threw me for a loop because it is about them.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna be thinking about that for the rest of the day.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: But we have an interview to continue, so I'm gonna set that in my brain.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna set that in a box and set it aside, I'm gonna come back to that in a couple hours and give that some more thought.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: Because it makes me think of myself also when I have at times been critical of other people in my life, you know, and we all have done that.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: It it just makes me realize wow, my criticism about that person has a lot more to do with me and my own the blackness in my own heart and my own jealousy, much more than it has to do with that actual person.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I learned um about judgmentalism and criticism.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And this was is a powerful freedom.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: I just did a training on this on um how to overcome the fear of being seen.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: And um that a very common thing of being afraid to step out is I'm afraid people will judge me and criticize me and say all these ugly things about me.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: And I said, like, some somebody's struggling with a habit of judgmental thinking and criticism, that's exposing what's inside them.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: It's a mirror of what they are, yes, not you.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
37:04
SPEAKER_02: That is so true.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a profound thought, it takes a minute.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: So now, whenever I find myself judging and criticizing, I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna stop that.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna work through that.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it only drags you down, you know, as a person.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: It does.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't help you at all.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't accomplish anything.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: It just you think it's self-soothing.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: What it is, it tends to be a self-soothing, um, a perceived way to soothe yourself because you're sad about something that you don't have.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: And so you try to just, oh, well, you know, they had this, you know, best-selling book, but you know, did they have to sell their soul to get that?
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, whatever.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: Like you're like, oh, that's not legit, you know, whatever success they have.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, unfortunately, there is some corruption and shady things going on.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a reality.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna turn my like pretend that that doesn't happen, but it's also not my business.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, it is it is funny because you know, since you're an author as well, that there is sort of that balance that you have to maintain between really celebrating people's wins and successes, but also realizing that there there is an element of the writer community that it's kind of smoke and mirrors, you know, like like the New York Times um bestseller list.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: And you know, whenever you see an Amazon number one bestseller, you know, that that doesn't always really mean anything.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it can mean it means it was like number one in an obscure category for an hour or something.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: So there is that element of it, but but I'm surprised sometimes at about how my mind is so quick to jump to those things whenever I see someone's success.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: So it's like, wow, why why do I always have to find the the negative part of it?
38:55
SPEAKER_02: And I don't always do that, but there there is an element probably of all of us that that tends to do that.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: And you know, like I'm the same way, because my big thing is marketing.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, um, and like I said, the motives.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: What are you putting out there?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of just marketing in general that's a lot of hype.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a lot of claims of highly sought-after number one bestseller, blah, blah, blah.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nature of the beast.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: And um and a lot of it is smoke and mirrors, and um, you know, but that the in my opinion, I think there's a lot to unlearn in that.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't do business that way.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's not true.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: So I love I the bottom line is is what I'm saying true.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: And if you see people, a lot of people that are doing that and making those claims, they might have been told to do that because that's what right people tell you you need to do.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Um and we're all just I think we're all just doing the best that we can, you know, with what what we have and where we're at.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: So but is there stuff that is not appropriate and a lot of you know shady stuff going on?
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is, and I know that.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Um but I just turn that into how can I be different?
40:21
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: The way to and the way to counter that is by being excellent and honest ourselves and just being the best that we can.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Just focus on your omission.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, if there is something, I mean, I I mean, I think it ends up getting exposed anyway.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Typically, yeah, it does.
40:41
SPEAKER_02: It really does.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: So something that you mentioned in the book is uh the importance of developing a community around you.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: And of course, we see that with Nehemiah.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, you've alluded to that a few times in this interview.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: But can you talk more specifically about how we can surround ourselves with positive, success-oriented people?
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Because that's not natural for us necessarily.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: We have to be intentional about that.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: So how can we go about doing that type of thing?
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I was like trying to think of like a practical thing because I'm like, I just did it.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, well, let me break down.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, how did I just start doing it?
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Um Well, and maybe that's part of it is maybe there isn't necessarily a process.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it is just one by one, we're we're trying to sort of move the the negative people further away from us or from our circle of influence and bring in more successful people just on kind of like a daily basis, you know, almost.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, mine was simple.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Like I there was no like a lot of people, um, younger people that I first talked to, they're like, oh my gosh, I'm like doing this thing and all the like the disdain from friends and family, right?
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Like nobody gets what I'm doing.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: They they're almost like offended that I'm doing this, and um there it that is kind of a part of it.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: It is a part of it.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And what I've just found is that the more I chose to rise, the the more people that were also rising showed up in my life.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just happened very naturally.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: It was like the more you choose, it's it's so much about your choices, your intentions, your actions, your thinking.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, that people were like attracted to me.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: I was attracted to them, and that like-minded thing happened very naturally.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: And the falling off of people that were refusing to rise, um, that distance happened very naturally.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: There were, I've never had to have a conversation of like, I can't have you in my life anymore.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: Like that's a tough conversation.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: It is, and I've never really had to have that.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: I it just naturally happened where the people we had nothing we related to anymore, nothing in common anymore.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: And um that you know, they just didn't understand the way I was living, and it agitated them so much that they didn't want to be around me.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: So it worked itself out um very naturally for me.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: I know that some people have to have those tough conversations, but that was not the case for me.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: It was a very organic distance while I moved into a m uh a community of people that were rising and helping build each other up.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: And maybe this is a good time to put in a little plug for Dan Miller's forty eight days Eagles group on Facebook.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, that that is really a key part of my well, it's become a part of my daily life, really, to check in there and hopefully add some value to others and also ask questions and you know I mean there there's so much there's so much we could go into about that, but that's kind of how I got to know you and see see your work and see how you were such a valuable contributing member of that community, which was really fun to see.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's a solid community.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: And there's like Facebook groups, and then there's you know, you can have a small group at your church or um you know, or entrepreneur groups with people that are solid in mindset because there's there's plenty of entrepreneur groups of people that are are victims.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's true.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: That is true.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: And there's an element to this too where I think we have to ask ourselves, okay, am I ever that negative person that somebody needs to eliminate from their life?
44:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not just a one-way thing, it's it's it's not just an issue of okay, how can I move away from negative people?
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Is am I repelling anybody by my own negativity?
44:55
SPEAKER_02: And you know, like you said, just kind of doing a a check, a self-check on that.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: I think that's really important.
45:00
unknown: Yeah.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: And I like to think that too.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and I did in the messy middle.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: I repeled plenty of people because I was filled with victim thinking.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: And poor me and self-pity thinking in the middle of the middle.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: It's easy to do.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: It's very easy to do.
45:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, as we start to kind of wind this down, let me let me throw a couple of uh final quick questions at you, if that's okay.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh one is is there any specific habit or practice that you would recommend people can put into put into practice into their lives today to start becoming more successful and to get through the messy middle?
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I don't know how many people in your audience are people of faith, but um, I am one.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: My faith is very important to me, and um I have learned what has become my signature program, the power of flow versus force.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: And flow is what I define as very elevated thinking, a high level of faith and trust in God, who God made you to be, owning who you are, and um unapologetically living that out.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: It sounds great, it's actually very hard to constantly live out.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Um and um so I do a practice of like aligning and surrendering um to God in the morning, aligning what is his priority for today?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: Who does he want me to reach?
46:39
SPEAKER_00: And who do I want to be?
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, who does he want me to be?
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Who can I love on today?
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Who can I reach out to today?
46:46
SPEAKER_00: What needs to be said today today?
46:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and just that checkpoint is so powerful, and it's incredible how many lives are touched, including your own, when you do that.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: And that was a really big game changer because it's easy to get up and immediately get into a grind mode, and that's what I call forth, which is um how can I make things happen?
47:14
SPEAKER_00: What do I like like this hustle, grind, make it happen?
47:17
SPEAKER_00: And there's there's there's an appropriate time and place of like you gotta just do what you need to do to get it done.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Um but at the same time, am I coming from a place of like trying to meet my immediate needs, needs?
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Am I coming from a place of fear or am I jealous?
47:38
SPEAKER_00: Am I competitive right now?
47:40
SPEAKER_00: In a in a the negative form of like, I want them to lose and tear them down, kind of thing.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and it's just that check-in of like, what am I in a panic?
47:50
SPEAKER_00: Am I stressed?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Am I overwhelmed?
47:52
SPEAKER_00: That's an invitation to just surrender, get into flow, align, relax, you're loved, you're taken care of.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: This isn't all on you.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: You're empowered, um, and you're supported.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: And that reminder and that check-in has been a game changer for me.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's a lot more peaceful way to live.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: And that was how I got through the messy middle.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: That's when it ended when I learned how to relax.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: That is great, and I and I and I would specifically encourage all the men who are listening to this to really pay attention to what Stephanie said.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: Because of course I'm not going to necessarily speak for all men, because not every man is the same, but but I do know that men tend to be more competitive and just tend to view life in terms of of competitiveness.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: So that that surrendering, especially, you know, and you know, of course, this whole show is called Born to Create, and coming out of the idea that that God has created us to to bring something great into the world and to fulfill our our creative purpose and to be in a relationship with Him and so forth.
48:58
SPEAKER_02: So that surrendering is so difficult, but such a key part of all this.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And the the I get like like I said, there is a time where we like go out and battle and we conquer, right?
49:17
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a time for that.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: Um but we've also like what I love about David was he was a warrior, a king, but he didn't depend on his own battle might and all of his training.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: I love how scripture says he sought the Lord for every battle plan.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: He sought the Lord, and when he didn't, it wasn't good, and that's what I mean by surrender, like yield, like you know, like remember who you serve, like what you're building is because you were born to do this, but you're not alone on it.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: Check in with the creator and ask, what do I need to do today?
50:05
SPEAKER_00: What do I need to remember?
50:07
SPEAKER_00: What do who do I serve?
50:09
SPEAKER_00: It's so powerful, and it's a much more peaceful way to live.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Entrepreneurs and high driving women.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Um we all need that reminder, but especially like high driving men and women and entrepreneurs could use that reminder, that fresh reminder.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, Stephanie, you have shared a lot of good stuff today.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate you making time to do this today.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: I love the book, and I am happy to help support it and get the word out about it.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: So good stuff.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: It was a pleasure and an honor, Kent.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: I love chatting with you.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay, thanks so much.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Stephanie.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of fun doing that interview, and she shared a lot of great wisdom that I know can benefit your life as well.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: Here are three takeaways that you can start putting into practice in your life and creative work.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Takeaway number one, your pain can help point you in the right direction.
51:07
SPEAKER_02: You noticed in the conversation that Stephanie mentioned she was in a position, she was in a role that she didn't like and that was kind of soul sucking.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't think she used the term soul sucking, but in essence, that was the the concept of it is it wasn't something that she wanted to do.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: She was in a field and a career that was not good for her and somewhere that she didn't want to be.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: So she made a decision to go a different direction.
51:31
SPEAKER_02: Now it's easy when we look at our lives, when we're in the messy middle, when we're in a situation that we don't want to be, to get angry and upset about that.
51:39
SPEAKER_02: But instead we can use our pain, like Stephanie did, to point us in the right direction.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: So whatever you're going through now, if it's a painful situation, if it's a job or career situation, maybe something with a relationship or some type of creative situation, whatever it is, if it's something that is painful to you, use that as a catalyst to then point you in the right direction.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: One of the big things that I got from Stephanie's uh from Stephanie's work and from our conversation is that we have choices that we can make in life.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: We have options about how we spend our time and what direction our life is going to go.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: We have a responsibility for our lives.
52:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's not a matter of just passively accepting whatever life throws at us.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: It's a matter of taking charge of your life and taking ownership.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it may take a while to get where you want to be, and it may take a lot of work and years of effort, but ultimately we do have the option of going the direction that we want to go.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: So use your pain, use your the negative things in your life, the things that are not pleasant in your life to help point you in a direction that you do want to go.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: Takeaway number two, social media does not represent reality.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Probably my favorite part of our conversation was how we were talking about the fact that whenever you see people's wins and successes on social media, it's very easy to feel jealous of that because we see the reality of our own lives.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: We see our struggles and our frustrations and our half-hearted efforts that don't go anywhere, and we see all of the stuff in our lives.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we tend to maximize the negative and we tend to minimize our wins and successes and the positive things.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: And what Stephanie mentioned, which I think is so true, is that whenever we're scrolling through Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, all we're seeing is the highlight reel of up of other people's lives.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: And those things are not a reflection on us.
53:32
SPEAKER_02: That is just curated content from their lives.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: And we all do the same thing.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we none of us probably tend to put all the negative stuff from our lives on social media.
53:42
SPEAKER_02: So realize that whatever you put out there is your highlight reel, and whatever other people put out there is their highlight reel.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: And whenever you see somebody's wins and their successes and all the great photos from vacation and the beaches and whatever else things that they're putting out there that that are so great, remember that that only represents a portion of their life, and it doesn't have any reflection on you at all.
54:05
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we see people's wins and we emotionally process those as a judgment on our own failure, which is not accurate because those wins have nothing to do with us.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: So just keep that in mind.
54:16
SPEAKER_02: Social media does not represent the totality of somebody else's life.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: Key takeaway number three is that other people's negativity is a reflection of their state of mind.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie had a super great insight, and I think I mentioned in the interview that, you know, I've got to stop and and reflect on this some more.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: And this happens many times in podcast interviews.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: Somebody says something, and I just go, wow, that was an amazing insight.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to spend some more time thinking about that.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: And this is something I'm gonna I'm gonna be thinking about for a while.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie said, your light provokes their darkness.
54:53
SPEAKER_02: And man, that is so true.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: Whenever you start achieving more and changing your life and becoming more positive and rising out of mediocrity, other people respond to that many times in negative ways because that's an irritating force to them.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: For somebody who's stuck in mediocrity, whenever you change your life, that irritates them because that is that is basically like a referendum.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: That's a judgment on their mediocrity.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: Now we may not mean it that way, but that is the way that they emotionally process it.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: Just like I talked about in the last point, where we see somebody else's win, and sometimes that provokes negativity in us.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: Our wins can also provoke negativity in other people.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: So whenever you're winning and whenever you're changing your life and you're creating and having success, other people sometimes are going to respond negatively to that.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: And we may think, wow, that just came out of left field totally.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't come out of just left field because that is the reaction that some people do have to that.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: So keep in mind what Stephanie also said when we were in that portion of the conversation, that the more she chose to rise, the more people showed up in her life who were also rising.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: And man, that is so true.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: The more effort that you make to be an excellent creative person and an excellent artist, the more people who will sh who will show up in your circle who are doing the same thing.
56:10
SPEAKER_02: It's all about your choices and your action and your way of thinking.
56:16
SPEAKER_02: You can't control other people's responses, but you can control what you do, and that is the whole point.
56:21
SPEAKER_02: So I love this interview.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of good stuff here that I'm going to be thinking about for a long time.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: Make sure to grab Stephanie's book, The Messy Middle, for free.
56:29
SPEAKER_02: There is a link in the show notes, which are at Kent Sanders.net slash podcast082.
56:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, hey friends, that wraps up this episode of the Born to Create podcast.
56:41
SPEAKER_02: I want to thank my friend Stephanie O'Brien Martin for taking the time out of her busy schedule to share this amazing conversation.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: And also I want to say a huge thank you to you for listening.
56:52
SPEAKER_02: You, the listener, are the reason why this show exists, and there's tons of podcasts out there.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: But man, I so appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to listen to the show.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: It really means a lot to me.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear your thoughts on the show.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: What do you like?
57:06
SPEAKER_02: What do you not like?
57:07
SPEAKER_02: What do you find helpful?
57:09
SPEAKER_02: What is not helpful?
57:10
SPEAKER_02: Let me know your thoughts.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: Shoot me a message on Twitter at KentSanders, or send me an email at Kent at KentSanders.net.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: And if you have any suggestions for good guests, I'd love to hear those as well.
57:22
SPEAKER_02: I also want to encourage you to subscribe to the show.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: That is the best way to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app.
57:32
SPEAKER_02: You can find lots more resources to help you unlock your creative genius at KentSanders.net.
57:38
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, my friends, remember that you were born to create and design to make a difference.
57:43
SPEAKER_02: Now go create something awesome.