Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 012 - H. H. Holmes -The Real Story

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012 - H. H. Holmes -The Real Story · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast.
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  Speaker 2: To Who Did What Now? The History podcast.
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  Speaker 3: With me your egregious host Katie Charlewood Broadcast bit.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway, Let's get down to what we're here for.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: History stuff. Shut your mouth and give me history.
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  Speaker 3: So let's get down to what we're all here for.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: You're like give me some facts.
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  Speaker 2: Well give me one way.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Second, because I have to sign my sources to be
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to be respectful about this.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: This week we are talking about America's first serial killer.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Apparently H hate Holmes. People talk like he's this big boogeyman.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: He's a monster, he's you.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Know, he's this monster, he's the devil.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I think he's just a prick.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: To be honest, sources, we have H.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Holmes The True History of the White City Devil by
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Adam Selzer.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: We have Eric Larsen to the Devil in the White City.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: And then I've got articles on History dot Compritannica dot com,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: Biography dot Com.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Etcetera, etcetera. Let's talk about this, shall we.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Haj Jolmes, America's first serial killer, the notorious Devil in
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: the White City.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: He who built a murder castle.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: To lure innocent victims in during the World Fair. This
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Macabur hotel had trapdoors, basement crematorium shoots that let down
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: to the basement, and sealed rooms and gas chambers.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: And on and oh.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: The demon is all a lot of bollocks. And I'm
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: gonna tell you why. Let's start at the beginning in
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: a move that surprises absolutely no one. Hit JH.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Holmes is not this gentleman, if we can call him
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: that real name.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: He was born Herman Webster Mudget on May sixteenth, eighteen
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: sixty one, in Gilmanton, Gilminton, New Hampshire. His parents were
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Levi Horton Mudget and THEO Date Page Price, and both
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: his maternal and paternal side were direct descendants from the
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: English immigrants who had settled in the area. Herman Webster
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Mudget was the third of five children. He had an
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: older sister Ellen, an older brother Arthur, a younger brother Henry,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and a younger sister Mary. Now I don't want to
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: be mean about this, but it appears to me that
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Holmes here is suffering from a severe case of middle
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: child syndrome.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: So Mudget slash home.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: His family aren't poor.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: You know, his dad comes from this farming family, and
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: his dad's always working. He's like farming, he's trading, he's
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: painting houses.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: You know, there's always money coming in.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: And as Herman is going through his school and he
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: is noted to have higher than average intelligence, which is
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I think a compliment. Higher than average, you're better than
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: general and you may hear that, like he tortured animals
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: and did all this kind of stuff, and it's like,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: because they're trying to make him fit into this.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: General serial killer pattern. You know, a lot of serial
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: killers have a certain sort of origin story, shall we
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: say so, Usually there's a.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Childhood head injury.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: There's torturing, maiming or killing animals. Sometimes they're a victim
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: of abuse, whether it's physical, emotional, or sexual.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: They seem to.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Be a common line that runs through But as far
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: as we know, Homes didn't have any of that going on.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: It's sometimes suggested or added in to kind of support
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: this serial killer theory, but there's no evidence.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: There's no evidence to this.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: So when he turns sixteen, he graduates from Phillips Exeter
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Academy and he takes teaching jobs in Gilmington and then
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: in Alton, and on the fourth of July Independence Day
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: eighteen seventy eight, he marries Clara Lovering in Alton and
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: they have a son, Robert Lovering Mudget and he's born
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: on February third, eighteen eighty. So after this, homes and
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: roles in the University of Vermont in Burlington. When he's
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: like eighteen. But for whatever reason, he's like unhappy with
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: being there.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know why.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's because he's barely better than average. Who knows,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: and he fucks off after one year. In eighteen eighty two,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: he joined the University of Michigan's Department of Medicine and
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Surgery and after two years he graduates.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So he's a doctor and he graduates in two years.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: I realized this is the past and they're just handing
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: out doctorates like jib jibs. But like, two years just
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: seems a little bit slim.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Even in the eighty and eighties, it just seems bit slim.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: They're in two.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Years, you're gonna have enough knowledge to be a jit
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: what a general practitioner, maybe a mortician maybe, I don't know. Anyway, Yeah,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: graduate in EDDY in eighty four and oh yes, the
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: absolute gobbler Mouch that is H. Jolmes or Herman Webster
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Mudget as he is at this time. He works in
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the anatomy lab. And he also he puts out all
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: these insurance claims because he's a week slack at bastard.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: So what he does is he puts out these insurance
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: claims on these people steals the cadavers from the lab
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: and then like injures them or disfigures them or burns
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: them in some way and makes it look like they
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: died in an accident. And then and he claims the
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: insurance money. So while he's studying medicine, he is defrauding
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: insurance companies. Some people go to college, they get a
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: new hobby. Sometimes they learn to play the guitar. Sometimes
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: they enjoy a good game of skiball. But this motherfucker
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: right here, his hobby was defrauding life insurance companies. Mudget
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: graduates in eighteen eighty four, but before he does, his wife,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Clara leaves him. She fucks off back to New Hampshire
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: with her bibby Robert. Robert what a weird name for
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: a baby, anyway, So she leaves him because he's a
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: violent piece of shit, and then she never hears from
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: him again. So Holmes moves around a bit after that,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: and he gets to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and he gets a
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: job as a keeper in Norriston State Hospital, but he
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: ends up quitting after a couple of days. Maybe maybe
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: getting to the cadavers was a bit more work this time.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: By the time he gets to Chicago, Herman Webster mudget It,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: in a move of that surprises absolutely fucking no one
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: had decides to change his name to doctor Henry Howard Holmes.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: So apparently one of the reasons that he chose the
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: name the surname Holmes was as an homage to the
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: fictional detective by Sir Arthur Gornan Doyle Sherlock Holmes. Maybe
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: he really liked alliteration. Maybe he just wanted it to
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: spell who knows, I mean really, So, yeah, August eighteen
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: eighty six, he's in Chicago, and you know, at some
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: point comes across this drug store, this pharmacy owned by
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth S.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Holton and her.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Husband, and it's at the northwest corner of South Wallace
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Avenue and West sixty third Street in Englewood. So doctor Holton,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: that husband. So he and Holmes, they're both Michigan and alumni.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: And he's actually only a couple years older than Holmes.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: And he thinks, you know what, this dude is really
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: hard working. So he's like gives him a job and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: he keeps him there. So fun fact, so like, for
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: some reason, when this story is retold, the Holtons are
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: seen as like these elderly people, and that even though
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: himself was only like a few years older than Holmes,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: And for some reason they always portray the story as
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: you know, he convinces the wife to get a live
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: insurance policy on the husband, the husband dies, and then
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the wife mysteriously disappears after leaving him in charge of
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: the drug store slash pharmacy.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: However, this is.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: A straight up bollocks because both doctor and missus Holton
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: outlived homes and survived until the twentieth century. So like
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: directly across from his drug store across the street, there's
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: a sempty plot and Holmes is like, hmmm, I like this,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: and he has a plan. But before that he gets married.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: And now you're thinking, isn't he already married?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes he is.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: At some point in eighteen eighty six, when he's like
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: still married to Clara, he marries Marta Belle in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: and like a few weeks later he felts for divorce
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: from Clara. The reason for the divorce being and the
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: reasoning petitions the divorce is saying, like that she's a cheater.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: She's cheating on me, says the bigamist.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: But the claims they.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Couldn't be proven, and partially because she wasn't even notified,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Like he never got to the point of actually notifying
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: her of this information, Like he knows where she is.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: She could have found her, but then that would have
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: mean her knowing where he was, so especially after having
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: a name change. So yeah, Clara's never informed of what's
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: going on, and the divorce doesn't go through, it's never finalized,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: and it actually ends up being dismissed in eighteen ninety
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: one on the grounds of want of prosecution, basically meaning
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: you didn't bring any proof, you didn't have any follow
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: through govuck yourself. So Holmes didn't actually live in Chicago.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: He actually lived in like he technically lived in Wilmot
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: in Eloi with Murta and Lucy, but then he would
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: bugger off back to Chicago in order to do shit.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: In eighteen eighty seven, construction begins in the empty lot
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: that Homes purchases for this two story.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Mixed use building.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: So the bottom floor what I would call the bottom floor,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: but a lot of the stuff I read referred to
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: it as a first floor.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: But to me, the first floor is after the ground floor.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So you've got the ground floor, then the first floor.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: But here first floor means the ground floor, so we're
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: gonna go with that, just in case I'm gonna gets
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: a little bit. It doesn't make sense to somebody like
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: me who was very confused, and I was like, so
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: it's a four story building and it's like no, So anyway,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: two the story mixed use building on this bottom floor
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: the first floor, you know, it's all retail spaces and
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: shop fronts, and he wants to build like a drug
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: store in there, so he's got his own so on
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: and so forth.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: So this murder castle.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: So he's building this place and it ends up being
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: a labyrinth, and it ends up having these and it
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: has these hidden spaces.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, so here's the thing.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: The hidden spaces are tech nically correct, but it wasn't
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: for murder. It's basically like having a smuggling compartment on
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: a ship or whatever the fuck, because he would use
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: it to hide stuff that he'd gotten from his suppliers.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: So basically, Holmes hires all these architects, and he aires
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: a steel company eight Na Iron and Steel, and they
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: end up actually assuming him in eighteen eighty eight. But
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: home is like he also doesn't pays architects, he doesn't.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Pay furnature suppliers.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: He just doesn't pay people like I think the reason
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: why he kept because he kept firing and hiring like
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: contractors and architects and things like that. So like it
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: wasn't for like this big of labout blah bla blah blah.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: A part of it was so that nobody knew what
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: was going on. Obviously, because he wanted to have places
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: to store his shit, because he was a fucking because
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: he was a conman and a thief and just a
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: shitty person in general. But so sometime between eighteen eighty
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: eight and in eighty ninety one, he decides he's going
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: to add a third floor. So he tells vestor investors
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: and suppliers that he wants to use it as a
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: hotel for the World's Colombian Exhibition, which is basically the
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: World's Fair in Chicago. Huh. This creditor of Hhh Holmes,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: John Debru He's in the drug store and he dies
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: on April seventeenth, eighteen ninety one, and he dies of apoplexy.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: What we don't know is if Holmes was involved or not.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying it's suspicious I'm saying he probably did it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: You know. I think I think mister Debrell was coming
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: over looking for his money or looking for something back,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: and Holmes was like, Okay, I'm not getting at this one.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Bim boom boom poisons the motherfucker. Anyway, take this drink,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: don't ask why it smells of almonds. So later on,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: later in eighteen ninety one, Ned Connor and his wife
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Julia Smith had moved into the apartments in Holmes's building,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: so those two also have a kid together, Peril and
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Ned ends up working in the Julia recounter in the pharmacy.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: So Julia and Holmes they start having an affair. When
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Ned finds out about the fair, He's like, fuck this
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: for a game of soldiers off, He pops, quits his job,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: moves away, He leaves Smith, and he leaves their daughter,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Peril behind, So Smith she gains custody of Peril, and
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: she stays at the hotel and she stays in the
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: apartments and continues her affair with Holmes. So eighteen ninety
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: one Christmas Eve, Julia and Perl up in Vanish disappear.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Only while later on Holmes claims that Julia dies as
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: a result of a botched abortion, because you know, he's
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: a doctor and he tries to like give her an
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: abortion and she dies as a result of it. One,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: this doesn't explain what happened to Peril, and two it
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: seems more likely that she was probably causing more trouble
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: than she was worth. So she dies of a botched abortion.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: He fucking panic, So she dies, He covers up whatever way,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: so he strips and mounts the skeleton and then sells
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: it to like a lab or a hospital or a
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: doctor or whatever. And what happens to Peril, Well, she
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: was small. She would have been easy to get rid of,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: but like ugh, and this is not the first of
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: women who know Holmes to disappear. It seems like it's
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: much easier to get rid of a mistress than it
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: is to you know, be with her or whatever, because hey,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: j Jilmes, mister Maggerier is a fucking misogynist. So there's
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: another chick who is apparently another one of Holmes's flings,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Emmeline's Segrand and she works in the building in May
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: eighteen eighty two, and then she disappears in December. And
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: then Edna van Tassel was supposed to be known by Holmes,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and then she disappears. So Holmes he's out working on
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: the chemical bank on Dearborn Street and he meets this dude,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Benjamin Pitzel. He's a carpenter who's gone a bit of
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: a criminal past because who didn't, and basically home starts
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: who in Pridzol as his sort of right man man.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: They become business partners and they basically get involved in
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: all of these schemes. Shall we say it's early eighteen
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: ninety three. There's this actress Many Williams, and she moves
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: to Chicago. Doctor Holmes here claims that he met her
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: in an employment office. So he meets this Mini, offers
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: her a job in his job as his personal stenographer,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: and she's like absolutely one hundred percent So Many Williams.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: She has this property in Fort Worth, Texas, and Holmes
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: convinces her to transfer the deed to a man called
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Alexander Bond.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Alexander Bond is just another alias of Herman Webster mudget.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: H h fucking homes so many volumes.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Her dad was like an actual physician, so he leaves
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: his oldest daughter Mini like money and real estate and
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: you know all that stuff that Holmes wants to get
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: his filthy going little fucking hands on.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And when she meets Holmes, he's going.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: By the alias Edward Hatch, so he's draining her for money.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: So Holmes tells many that he's gonna marry her right
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: so many sister Nanny is going to come in and
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: visit because she's going to be at her sister's wedding.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: So she travels in. She's like, I'm gonna be made
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: of honor. It's gonna be five us. I'm gonna get
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: you the right flowers. I'm gonna fight with anybody who
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: ruins your day. I'm here for your sis. So what
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: happens is she travels in from Texas and Holmes meets
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: her at the station, saying, I'm going to take you
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: in to your sister, no worries. I'm the her new hobby.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I'm the hobby to be. It's gonna be all nice.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: So he takes her, so Nannie never actually sees her sister.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Homes make sure to take all of Nannie's money, and
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: then he kills her. Initially, in his paid confession, I
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: swear to God, he says that many killed Nanny because
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Nanny was because she was jealous of hers. She hit
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: her on the head with her chair, and he just
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: covered up the crime by throwing Nanny's body in a lake,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: because you know, you know how it is so yet
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: homes and Williams, many Williams. You know, they start acting
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: like husband and wife, but they don't actually get married.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: They rent an apartment in Lincoln Park in Chicago, but
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: by July fifth, eighteen ninety three, neither of the Williams
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: sisters were seen alive. The william sisters many he poisons,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: and Nanny he suffocates and then disposes after making her
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: sign over everything she owned to him. And apparently at
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: some point he goes traveling and looks for the Williams brother.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I couldn't find confirmation on this, but like this is
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: a this is the ticket, if you will. He apparently
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: goes and finds the brother so he can kill him,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and therefore is no one to contest his claims on
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: the Williams property. We get to take that with the
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: pinch of salt. At some point, at some point during
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: all this, the reason some of the bodies weren't found
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: was Holmes actually pulled a barking hair properly did it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: So he and you know, sometimes another person whom he hired,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: so he basically prepares them for medical purposes. So he
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: decides to use all his connections, all his medical training
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff, and he makes skeletons to be
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: sold to schools and medical labs in atom training all
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: that kind of stuff.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: He basically strips that, you.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Know, removes the flesh, dissects them, removes all the intestines,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: and sanguinates the whole sheebang and then whatever is left,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: the goo that has left ends up getting chucked in
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: like a limpit or is bit an acid and things
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: like that, any sort of way to break down the
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: smoshy body parts. And these these skeletons, I mean, whoever
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: this hired assistant was, I don't know, but they might
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: have thought they were just doing like work work and
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: not you know, disposing of human remains post murder. But whatever.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: So somewhere between eighteen ninety three and eighteen ninety four,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: the world fares over which, by the way, very few
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: people actually came to stay in his quote unquote hotel.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: He never really used it as such.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Eighteen ninety three eighteen ninety four, he's got these creditors
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: are hounding him. He's already been stared by one motherfucking group.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: So he's, you know, he's going to get the hell
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: out of Dodge. So eighteen ninety four, where does he go?
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Fort Worth? He's like, Aha, the property from the Williams sisters.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: What a crazy random happen stands?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: WHOA.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: So he actually gets arrested in Saint Louis, Missouri for
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: the first time. He's arrested for the first time because
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: he's charged with selling mortgaged goods. He gets built out
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: and so when he's in jail, you know, he becomes
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: he becomes what's it called the Buddies Buddies Buddies prison
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: pals with this dude called Marian Hedgepath Hedgebirth is serving
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: this twenty five year sentence and the two of them
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: have this plan to defraud an insurance company out of
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So the plan is to take a policy out of
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: himself and then fake his death.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: He promises Hedgweth like a five hundred dollars commission in
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: exchange for the name of a lawyer who can be trusted.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: So Holmes gets bailed out anyway, and he goes to
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: this attorney called Jip the Whole, who finds this scheme
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: absolutely glorious. It's brilliant, it's fantastic, it's genius. But the
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: insurance company becomes suspicious and they refuse to play, and
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: so Holmes is like, okay, nope, decides instead to speak
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: to good old Pitzell Pitzel Pidezell Pidzell. Eh, well, this
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: is going to change the more, is it? So Pizel,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: you know, the career criminal from earlier. He's like, Benjamin
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: was calling Benjamin Benjamin, so what cheesers? So Benjamin agrees,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: so he's like, yeah, I'm a fake mo own death.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: My wife can get the ten thousand, my wife can
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: collect the insurance policy, and we can all split it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: It'll be it'll be super awesome. We'll blood it three ways.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: So Holmes Whole and Benjamin now his schemes go. It's
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: a wee bit convoluted. So he's going to go to
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: Philadelphia and set himself as an inventor under the name
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: of B. F. Perry, and then he has to be
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: killed and disfigured in a lab explosion. Ho has to
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: be the maybe it's how I'm gonna call him Hole.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: His job is to be the official person on this.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Pitzel has to be, you know, the fall guy, the body,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: and Holmes his role is to find an appropriate cadaver. However,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: he decides it's a much better idea to kill Benjamin.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: He knocks him unconscious and then sets him on fire.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: So when Holmes confesses, like he says that Pitzel was
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: still alive when he you know, after he chloroformed him,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: because I mean, chloro roman general has to be very specific,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: but how you have to think of the body weight
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: of the person that's using it, and if someone inhales
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: it too strongly or too quickly, or if they're panicking,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: they can inhale too much of it and they could die.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: That's just how chlorophorm works. And it's not quick. Chloroform
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: is not quick. You have to be really strong.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And I just I don't know how forensics worked in
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: the eighteen nineties, but as far as they could surmise,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: it seemed that the chloroform had been administered after the death,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: which is like, okay, so what do you know, genuine corpse.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: So the insurance company they pay out Holmes, who is
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: a charming and charismatic con man because of course he
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: fucking is, convinces widow who is unaware she's a widow.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: She thinks that.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Benjamin has just it's just off hiding somewhere, that he's
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: in England or Europe or something like that. And somehow
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: this absolute glumpus convinces this per woman to allow three
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: out of her five children to be in his care.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Her eldest daughter and her baby stay with her. So
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Holmes is traveling throughout America. So he's traveling throughout the
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: United States with these three kids, and also he's telling
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: missus spizeer to go like, you know, a similar route
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: sort of parallel actually, and he's using all these different
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: aliases like Edward, Harry, Henry whatever.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's even using his actual name at one point,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I don't fucking know.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Well, as far as she's aware, he's traveling with
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: her children. So when Holmes is traveling around with the kids,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: he's like taking them to zoos and stuff, and he's
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: using them for schemes. I mean, traveling around with three
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: children makes you seem like a more respectable fellow, It
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: really does. However, once they outlive their usefulness, he decides
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: they can no longer live. So at some point during
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: this in eighteen India, he gets married again to Georgina Yuck.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: He's renting this house on sixteen Saint Vincent Street in Toronto,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: which no longer exists, by the way, and he forces
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Alice and Nelly into a trunk, drills a hole in
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: it into this like large trunk locks it, drills a
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: hole in it, puts a pipe in it, and pumps
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: gas inside to kill them. I think most of his
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: murders were done like by gas or by sort of poisoning.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Things that were that didn't involve a.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Lot of physical hands on because I don't know if
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: you already just strangle somebody, But that's like a lot
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: of effort, and I don't think he wanted.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: To do that. I think he wanted to use the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: easiest route possible for him for some reason.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: The bodies are nude when he buries them in the
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: cellar of this rental house. And then at one point
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Homes rents this cottage in Indianapolis where he goes to
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: like a local drug store pharmacy, buys a bunch of
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: drugs and he uses them to kill young Howards pipes
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: of that's so, that's those three kids all dead. He
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: goes to a repair shop and sharpens a bunch of knives,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: chops the body up, puts it in a fireplace.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And burns it.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: So Holmes ends up being arrested in Boston on November seventeenth,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: eighteen ninety four, after being trapped there from Philadelphia by
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: the Pinkertons. Like the Pinkertons, the Pinkerton Detective Agency, those
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: motherfucking Pinkertons anyway, who are we wile to discuss at
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: some point? Also, yes, so him and his unsuspecting third wife,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: who seems to you know, think that her lovely husband
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: is helping these children who mysteriously disappear for some fucking reason,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: are so like it appears that her and him are
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: getting ready to just like flee the country again. So
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: they're demanding to go somewhere, just escape. So basically they
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: hold him because he has an outstanding warrant for horse
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: theft in Texas. The reason the Pinkertons were involved is
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: because Fidelity, the insurance agency, Fidelity Mutual Life Association, they
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: were like suspicious and his ex salemate, Hedgepit had basically
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: tipped them off, going yeah, there he is, because he
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: was like, I didn't get my money.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Fucking prick, because he.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Was still a bit get disgruntled about not getting his
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: money from beforeese He's like, I must screw you over
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: a bit.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So Holmes is arrested.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: So obviously, like they find the bodies of the two
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: girls and they get suspicious. So they start investigating the
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: castle and what they do find so they find like
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: hinged rooms and secret compartments and stuff. They find the
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: basement where you know, they've got the remains of the
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: bodies of you know, his ex mistress, and I say, X, mistress,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: we don't know if it's them, but like chances are
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: it's it's them. So the police start checking out the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: castle as it's called, and what do they found but
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: furniture and other supplies and stuff that Holmes just hadn't
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: paid for.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: He just scammed a bunch of people out of it.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: So in eighteen ninety five, Holmes is put on trial
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: for the murder of Benjamin Pitzel and he has found
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: guilty and he is sentenced to death.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So this is where Homes starts acting, shall we say so?
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: After he is convicted, right, Holmes starts confessing to all
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: these murders. Quite a few of these people were supposedly
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: killed by Holmes, but they weren't. So he says he
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: kills Robert Robert Leecock, who's like a former schoolmate. He
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: says he kills him in eighty eighty six for a
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: life insurance policy. One, this policy is never taken out,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: and two Robert Leecock didn't die until eighteen eighty nine,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: so that's wrong. He also confesses to the murder of
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: miss Kate Durkey, who was also alive, and there's like
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: more of them, Like he says he murdered them, but
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: they just didn't. So the heirst newspapers are like, okay, Holmes,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: we will pay you seven and a half thousand dollars
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: for your confession, and he's like, right, okay, super, So
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: he confesses and makes his money. But also in addition, furthermore,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Holmes gives all these different accounts of his life, so
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: like at one point he's saying he's in a another
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: point he's saying he is.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Possessed by Stayton.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: He talked about how he's a monster who was like
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: the reason he exists is to kill, and that he's
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: filled with monstrous urges and he picked people with the
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: purpose of killing them, and blah blah blah blah blah
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: bla blah blah blah. And he talks about how he's
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: beginning to resemble the devil. But you know, fuck him,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: we don't care. You know, he can say his bullshit
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: all he likes. It just seems like he's like, you
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: know what, I'm going out. I'm going at the bang.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: I think he just does it to fuck with people.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: He just wants to. He wants this notoriety, you.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: So, before before he's due to get you know, a
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: shortstop and a sudden drop, he asks to be buried
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: ten feet deep and his coffin to be like contained
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: in cement, which they do, because he was like, I
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: don't want grave robbers to steal my body for the section.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Oh sucks to be you done it. So on the
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: seventh of May eighteen ninety six, Henry Howard Holmes is
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: hanged at the Philadelphia County Prison.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: He was super calm and child.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: Gets the rope. He gets his ort drop in a
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: sudden stop. Except it's not so sudden, is it? Unfortunately
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: for doctor H. H. Holmes here, his neck doesn't actually
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: snap upon the descent. Instead, what happens is he is
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: strangled slowly. He dies an excruciatingly slow death, and is
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: twitching for over fifteen minutes before being pronounced dead. So yeah,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: he is buried in a coffin covered in cement and
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: it's six foot deep. In eighteen ninety five, the castle
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: was broken into by some men and who came at Arson.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: They basically came at Arson, So these two dudes set
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: the place on fire, and even though it's like being
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: cut by fire, the building actually survives until nineteen thirty
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: eight when it is torn down.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Good vulcan redd ends.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Oh and currently where this murder castle was, the post
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: office is there, the Englewood branch of the United States
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Postal Service. They must feel super happy there. Okay. So
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: by tim twenty seventeen comes along, there's all these conspiracy
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: theories about how Homes faked his death and that how
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: he's like he escaped. So his descendants agreed to have
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: you know, the body exhumed and tested. See, the thing is,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: because the coffin was encased in cement, the body hadn't
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: actually like decomposed in the manner that it normally would.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: So the clothes are all perfect, and his even his
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: mustache is there. His mustache is all like intact. So
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: they do DNA testing on it from and they check
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: his teeth and they're like, yeah, this is homes no worries,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: we got the dude.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And then they rebury him. No harm, no fill. So
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: that is the story of.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: HH Holmes, Herman, Webster, Mudget utter gobshite. Frankly, here ends
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: our tale of murder. So what so what have we
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: learned today? Don't trust men with mustache. I'm telling you
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: bay Lakish Kaiser, Volhelm the Second, Henry Howard Holmes, Stalin Hitler,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: anybody with a weird mustache, just like no, I'm telling
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: you so Like you know that mixologist you know with
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: the Daber mustache, don't trust him. He's a deviant somehow.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know how, but he's a deviant. Maybe he's
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: a devent in the way you like, but well, never know. Anyway,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: stay safe. Also, we need to know that we need
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: to go back and check fact check. Unfortunately, in the
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: eighteen nineties a lot of the newspapers were like so
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: sensationalized that like a lot of the information we get
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: is often misconstrued. It's kind of like the concept of
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: the ripper when they talk about about rapper killings. It's
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: just the manner of killing, which you might it's that
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: sort of slashing, like a slash or kill, as opposed
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: to homes, which was very much into the whole poison thing.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: And also you know, setting people on fire while they're
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: still alive. But like whatever, okay, never mind, and that
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: is today's show, and hopefully that associated your curiosity regarding
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: the man that is H. H. Holmes Triple H. Sorry
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: it's not funny. He would have been a terrible wrestler.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I look forward to chatting to you next week. We're
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: gonna talk about some sober awesome ladies.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Whoh whoa, whoa, whoah women. I can't wait. I'm so excited.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: But for now, I shall bade farewell and I shall
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: say adios au revoir of we to then my friends.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Bye bye,