Latest / Salish Wolf / #80 Cubby Hoover on Project Quiver

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#80 Cubby Hoover on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

• 0:06
  Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
• 0:09
  the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
• 0:12
  world's finest traditional bow carvers.
• 0:14
  I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
• 0:17
  Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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  book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
• 0:23
  unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
• 0:26
  the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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  photograph his woodcraft in detail, and share his story here
• 0:32
  on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver, the
• 0:36
  art of life. Through bow craft and this
• 0:38
  journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
• 0:47
  All right. How's it going man?
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  Finally good to meet. You.
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  Yeah. Good to meet you, too.
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  I'm glad we finally managed. I was beginning to worry that
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  this wasn't going to happen, but here we.
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  Are Yeah, man, I my schedule has been crazy lately.
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  Absolutely insane. What are you staying busy with?
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  I'm a youth pastor, so it's, you know, I got 50 some odd kids and
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  regularly like 30 kids. So it's just constant going.
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  We got all the sports going on and so I'm showing up to all the
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  games and yeah, so it's just, it's just been crazy, but good,
• 1:23
  everything's good. So yeah.
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  Yeah, that must be rewarding. How long you been doing it?
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  Think we're about at seven months now, full time.
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  So wow, relatively new. Yeah, very new, very new.
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  Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of stuff happened in my life that
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  kind of led to that point. But all, well, not all good
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  things, but, you know, it led me there and I'm thankful for it.
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  It's a, it is very rewarding. But yeah, it's been a, it's been
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  a crazy few years, that's for sure.
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  Yeah. Wow, do you go buy a cubby?
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  Is that Yeah, your name OK? Yeah.
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  Yeah, cool. Yeah, my my real name is Steven,
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  but nobody calls me Steven. I've been Cubby since I was, I
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  don't know, knee high to a grasshopper.
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  So it's been a long time. Who named you that?
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  My older brother DJ is his name. But whenever we're, I don't
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  know, it's probably 3 or 4 years old.
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  And he tried to say Bubba came out Cuba, and then it turned
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  into Cubby, and it just stuck. It's an interesting name to grow
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  up with, you know? Yeah, Yeah.
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  Have you ever heard that song by Johnny Cash?
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  A boy named Sue? Probably, but I doesn't ring
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  about. It follows this, yeah, follows a
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  story with this boy named Sue, and he kind of lived a a hard
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  life because of his name and very similar to that, yeah has.
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  It been difficult. Well, you know, you know, kids,
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  they, you know, in my stature, I'm a, I'm a thicker gentleman.
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  So cubby turned into chubby and, you know, there's just a lot of
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  teasing with that. But, you know, water off the
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  back ain't no big deal. But yeah, it it put me into some
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  situations where I had to, you know, get a little scrappy here
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  and there. Yeah, it's amazing how things
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  like that can shape us. It's that probably is literally
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  shaped the man you are today. Yep, absolutely.
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  Yeah, 100%. Yeah, where are you based?
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  I'm in Purdy, Missouri. So like southwest corner of
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  Missouri. Yeah.
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  Purdy, Purdy. Like it's URDY.
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  Like it's real Purdy there. It's real Purdy.
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  It's real flat. It's real flat where I'm at.
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  Is it OK? Yeah, I don't know if I've ever.
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  No, it's not sure. I've been to Missouri, I've been
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  driven through Saint Louis. And anyway, but I don't think
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  I've been to any of the good parts, not that that's not a
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  good part, but to any of like the the forested areas and
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  whatnot. So many bow woods come from
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  there. Yeah, man, yeah, Osage is
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  prolific where I'm at. Yeah, That's that's I'm
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  thankful, yeah. Whenever I started getting into
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  bow making, I wasn't aware of like what best, you know, Woods
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  made made good bows and and yeah, thankfully it's right in
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  my backyard. It's the it's the best food out
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  there in my opinion. So.
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  Yeah. Oh, that's, you're not the only
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  one with that one, that's for sure.
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  And so it's flat where you are. Is it forested?
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  Well, yeah, so like where I'm at, it's pretty flat, a lot of
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  farmland, a lot of, you know, cattle raising goes on over
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  here. But just 30 minutes SI hit.
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  So I don't know if you know where Eureka Springs is or, you
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  know, northwest Arkansas. There's a lot of hills and
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  valleys and forested areas. So I'm real close to the
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  mountains and, well, the mountains.
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  It's really just big hills over here.
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  But yeah. Cool.
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  How close are you to Fayetteville?
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  It's about from here, probably, probably about an hour and a
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  half, so not too far. I used to live in Fayetteville,
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  lived there for 4 1/2 years. Yeah.
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  Do you know Rick? Rick Spicer.
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  Yes, Yeah. Rick Spicer is a good buddy of
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  mine. I love that guy.
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  He's, he's the reason I'm here, you know, actually.
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  Wow. He's, yeah, he's been a huge
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  influence in my life, so. Tell me more.
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  Oh, I think it was 2000, 17 or 18 probably.
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  I was working full time at a, AT shirt factory and printing
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  shirts and I was in the embroidery part of that.
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  And one of my buddies was like, hey, there's a, there's a
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  archery class going on. This guy named Rick Spicer's
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  putting it on over at Packrat. And at this point, like, you
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  know, I'd shop bows, you know, mostly like compound or, you
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  know, small recurves growing up, but not serious.
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  And I was like, yeah, man, I'd be interested in going and
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  learning how to how to shoot again.
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  And so me and my buddy Drew McLaughlin, I'm thankful for
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  that guy because he introduced me to Rick, went to that class
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  and fell in love with archery. And I was like, man, I got to
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  get a bow. And so I talked to Rick and he
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  he was like, well, you should, you should look into making some
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  bows. Like you've got, you know,
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  carpentry background. And you know, I was asking him
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  about like draw length and all those things.
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  And he was, and me being a bigger guy, it kind of my draw
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  length like because of my chest, like it was a little different.
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  And so I was like, I'm going to start making bows for chubby
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  guys. And so, yeah, I mean, I fell in
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  love with it and didn't have enough money to to buy a bow at
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  the time. So I was like, yeah, I'll start
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  looking into, you know, how do I get started into making bows?
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  And so I just started, I got the bow your Bible, read that front
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  to back multiple times, started watching videos.
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  You know, I found Corey Hawk, big inspiration to me, good
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  buddy of mine. Love that guy to you.
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  Great, great guy. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's
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  fantastic. It's all to the earth.
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  His whole family is just fantastic.
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  Yeah. Clay Hayes started like watching
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  a lot of his videos and then I found board bows and I was like,
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  OK, I can make this happen. I can go to Lowe's and buy a red
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  oak board, make my first bow. So that's kind of where it
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  started. Then it and it all spun from
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  inspiration from Rick. He's, he loves the, I don't want
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  to call it a sport because it's more in a sport, but yeah, he,
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  he loves archery. He's got a passion for it and
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  just kind of set that fire in me so.
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  How long ago was that? I think that was 2000.
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  I want to say it's 2018, maybe in the later later part of 2018.
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  Yeah, well, he had a lot of good influences there.
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  Good, good group of people to know and resources to have.
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  And have you been to the Bruja Bush rack?
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  Yeah, yeah, I go. I try to go every year.
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  I miss. Did you last?
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  You miss this year? Did you go this year?
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  I went this year, yeah. Yeah.
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  How was I made it this year? It was fantastic, man, getting
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  to see all my good friends and getting to teach some survival
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  or some, I guess, bushcraft skills to some kids.
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  And, you know, I made a bow while I was out there, worked on
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  a bow. Anyways, I didn't get it
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  finished, but it's always a good time.
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  And just with others that are making stuff, Corey was right
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  next to me. He knocked out a little kid bow
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  in like just a few hours. It was wild.
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  I think he I think he used a piece, piece of I don't know
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  what he used actually. I was so busy and fixated on
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  this little thing that, you know, I wasn't really paying
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  attention to him. But I, I look over at one point
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  and he's got a, a whole, you know, sapling.
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  And then I look over again and it's a bow, you know, that needs
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  a he's a, he's a machine man. He really is so.
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  But yeah, it's a good time, man. I love it.
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  I love it. I'm hoping to go next year with
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  my family. Dude that would be so cool.
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  That would be amazing. Yeah.
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  Are you going to run the race on it?
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  Yeah. Well, I can't run anymore.
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  I used to be a competitive runner, but I had a terrible
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  ankle injury. So I'm I can do everything
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  except for a run, which is kind of ironic because that used to
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  be my entire life was running. I can, I can literally do every
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  sport, but if it involves running, I I'm going to pay the
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  price. My ankle will just lock up for
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  the next week and be very angry at me.
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  So I avoid that. But I will I'll do the race on a
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  slower version of it. Yeah, yeah, I've never, I've
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  never run the race. I've heard it's grueling and it
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  just totally kicks your butt. But I've, I've wanted to, but
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  I'm, I'm always there building a bow or something.
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  And so I don't think I'll probably run it, you know, which
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  is fine. Yeah, yeah, well, maybe I won't
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  commit to it yet, I'll have to see.
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  But sounds like it would be fun. My family would probably want to
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  do it. But yeah, I I had a great chat
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  with Rick a few months ago on here and he's a really nice guy.
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  Sounds like a a great thing that he has going on with the event
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  and with with Pack Rat shop and whatnot.
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  So. Yeah, he's, he's really built a
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  pretty awesome community of, of just golden humans.
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  Everybody I've met through him is just fantastic.
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  I'm very thankful for Rick for sure.
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  That's amazing. That's really awesome.
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  So how's the bow making journey been for you?
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  Was it? It's been really instant love.
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  Well, yeah, yeah, man. So I made my first board bow and
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  it was an absolute abomination. But it shot.
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  It shot. And, you know, I found a local
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  3D archery course that was putting on some tournaments
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  every, I think it's like every other weekend and went and shot
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  my my board bow in those in those tournaments.
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  And, and I did pretty well with it.
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  You know, my shot placement was really great.
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  And but yeah, that that first bow was, was, you know, it's
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  shot, it did its job, but it's not pretty at all.
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  And yeah, so from that point, like there was a, there was a
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  point in that first year shooting it where it developed
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  cracks and I would bind it with rawhide.
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  And I mean, it had like 3 different, you know, I think it
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  was like by the end of the, whenever I retired and I think
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  it had four rawhide bands on it to keep it together.
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  And I just kept on shooting it and I, I finally made another
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  one. And then after that, after I
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  made that second one, it just, I just started making them all
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  that I could out of boards from Lowe's and, and, you know,
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  trying to further my knowledge on what, what species of wood
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  was good. And, you know, from reading the,
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  the Bowyer's Bible, I knew like I needed to get my hand on some,
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  on some Osage. And so I started figuring out
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  what plant or what that tree looks like and where it is and
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  all that stuff. And I figured out, hey, it's,
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  it's, it's. And this time I was living at
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  Fayetteville and I was like, man, my parents live in
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  Missouri. I'm going to go check out their,
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  their property. And I went to their property and
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  like, I'd say probably 40% of their little force that they
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  have on their land, it's all Osage.
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  And I was like, Oh my gosh, yeah.
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  So I started, I started cutting down trees and knocking out
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  staves and started, you know, during my, my wood.
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  And then I think I got my hands on some on some age dosage and I
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  made my first Osage bow and, and that's what I shot for a long
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  time. And then it, you know, after
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  those stage that I got cured, I, I, it was all over.
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  I, I was just building bows after bows, giving them to
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  family members and friends. And then I was like, man, I
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  think I want to, I want to do this for real.
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  I want to I want to pursue a career in this.
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  And so that's kind of where it where it all started.
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  Did you grow up on your parents property?
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  No, I grew up. I grew up in well, Rogers AR
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  Gentry, Arkansas and Rogers before it is before it became
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  what it is today. And it's I mean, the population
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  down there is just wild. Walmart moved in and you know,
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  all the OG Northwest Arkansas people kind of like moved out.
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  And so I, that's kind of what I did.
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  But eventually after starting my or after finding the love of
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  making bows and then and then whenever I was like, I want to
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  pursue this, my wife and I sold everything we had moved into a
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  camper and then moved on to my parents property for a few
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  years. And that's that's where I got
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  all my material and set up my shop and I just got to work.
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  So that's kind of how that became a a thing, but.
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  That that's cool. You you talked earlier about the
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  draw length you is yours A do you have a long draw length?
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  You were. Talking about, make a pose for.
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  For chubby guys, so I don't know what is it make the draw longer.
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  What I found is like with our, with bigger guys, you know, your
• 14:51
  chest might get in the way or your belly might get in the way.
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  And, and I, and I figured out that like if I, if I lean over a
• 15:01
  little bit, my, my, my form is not like a classic form.
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  It's, it's something I've made-up to shoot and, and to do
• 15:11
  what I need to do. But my true draw length is 28
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  inches. So it's normal, but I usually
• 15:18
  shoot like 26 whenever I'm out out hunting.
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  You know, I hunt off the ground. I don't hunt from a tree stand.
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  And so my form is never like exact whenever I'm in a hunting
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  scenario. And so I figured out like, OK,
• 15:34
  26 inches, I can hit that. And so that's kind of what
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  that's what I use is 26 inches. But for chubby guys, you might
• 15:42
  have a true 28, but you got to work around what you got going
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  on. And and so sometimes that shifts
• 15:50
  a little bit. So does that come that
• 15:53
  workaround, Does that come from the bow or does that come from
• 15:55
  the shooting style? Comes from the shooting style
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  I've I've seen like so like, you know, not understanding fully
• 16:03
  the mechanics of form and all that stuff.
• 16:06
  Whenever I first started, I was like, I'm going to, you know,
• 16:10
  try to figure out how to make this more available to chubby
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  guys to figure out what their drawing is.
• 16:14
  And then, you know, after I learned more, I was like, well,
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  it's really just mostly like around your shooting style.
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  Find a comfortable shooting style for you that you can, you
• 16:27
  can, you can do repetitively, like find those anchor points
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  and whatever works for you. It might not look like the
• 16:33
  perfect form to everybody else, but for you it's exact every
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  time. And that's what I've learned
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  over the years of doing this is it's, it's all in this in the
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  style of how you shoot. And just as long as you can find
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  something consistent, that's what matters.
• 16:48
  Yeah, I agree. And I've seen so many different
• 16:50
  styles and some people who have such unorthodox styles who are
• 16:54
  damn good shots. So yeah, that's cool.
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  So you said you got so excited about it that you wanted to kind
• 17:05
  of make a go out it, make a career out of it.
• 17:07
  So are you doing this as a part time career?
• 17:11
  Yeah, right now I've had a lot of lot of things come up.
• 17:16
  I guess how do I answer this question?
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  Yeah, right now it's it's kind of a part time.
• 17:26
  If somebody reaches out to me for a custom Commission, I'll
• 17:31
  build them a bow. But I'm not actively pursuing
• 17:34
  building my my company, building my brand or anything like that
• 17:40
  because of my position right now with the the youth pastor
• 17:45
  position. I don't have the time that I'd
• 17:47
  need you to devote to a a full time career with that at this
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  point. It's just not where it's not
• 17:54
  where my life has me right now. But I'm still building bows and
• 17:57
  I'm still teaching bushcraft or survival courses if I can.
• 18:02
  But I'm not actively pursuing that stuff at this point.
• 18:06
  So if somebody reaches out to me for a custom bow, I'll knock it
• 18:09
  out. But yeah, yeah.
• 18:12
  How did you get into bushcraft? I kind of hit this point in my
• 18:18
  life where, you know, there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in
• 18:22
  the world back in 2018-2019. And I was really, I've always
• 18:28
  been interested in that world, you know, and I think the show
• 18:33
  alone kind of made that more accessible to me.
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  I didn't have anybody in my life that taught me these skills, but
• 18:42
  I always appreciated it, respected it and loved it and
• 18:46
  and so you. Were on the own right.
• 18:51
  I was, yeah. Yeah.
• 18:53
  When was that? Season 11?
• 18:54
  That was, well, I guess three years ago now, maybe 4I it's
• 19:01
  been a blur, man. Yeah, I think four years ago
• 19:04
  maybe is whenever we started filming.
• 19:08
  OK. So you had developed some
• 19:09
  bushcraft skills prior to that? Oh yeah, 100% yeah.
• 19:14
  I just, I just full swing got into it, man.
• 19:16
  Yeah, OK. And then where were you on the
• 19:19
  show? Where?
• 19:20
  Where was it based? That was in in Nuvik, Canada,
• 19:25
  and I think it was like 110 miles into the Arctic Circle.
• 19:31
  Wow. That was the furthest N at that
• 19:33
  point, I think that the show had been.
• 19:36
  It's pretty wild. It was absolutely wild.
• 19:39
  Was it cold? Yeah, it whenever I got there
• 19:44
  was like towards the end of summer.
• 19:46
  So OK, we had some days that were like up into the 60s
• 19:51
  Fahrenheit. So we went swimming in the
• 19:54
  river. But like, but most of the time
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  it was a little chilly, rainy. I think it snowed on the 1st on
• 20:01
  the day that we were we were heading out, there's a little
• 20:04
  bit of snow. But each day that I was there
• 20:07
  and, you know, I was in T-shirt and.
• 20:10
  You know, it wasn't freezing. And then at night I was just
• 20:13
  like laying on top of my sleeping bag.
• 20:16
  So no, not super cold for me. The the, the, the contestants
• 20:21
  that stayed there a little longer experienced some real
• 20:23
  cold weather, but I didn't, I didn't get to experience that,
• 20:26
  unfortunately. How many days were you out
• 20:29
  there? Oh, man, it's embarrassing, but
• 20:33
  I was out there for four days. Have you seen the have you seen
• 20:37
  the show yet? That that.
• 20:39
  Season I've, you know, I've and I've actually only ever seen
• 20:44
  like one or two episodes and this was years ago at my sister
• 20:47
  in So maybe I saw hit like a couple episodes of his season.
• 21:00
  Yeah. So yeah, I was, I was out there
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  for four days on the on that fourth day, I went, I went
• 21:10
  trying to find, trying to find better water access, trying to
• 21:13
  find a better fishing spot. And I took my bow, took my
• 21:19
  quiver and walking through that dense brush down there by the
• 21:24
  river, it's just Willow and and Alder, you know, all these like
• 21:29
  little saplings just growing in together.
• 21:31
  And I mean, it's, it's overbearing really.
• 21:35
  But you know, I'm pushing through that and I get probably,
• 21:40
  I think it's about 30 minutes out from my, my camp that I was
• 21:45
  making and realized, man, this whole side of this river that
• 21:50
  I'm on, it's kind of like an off branch from the main river.
• 21:54
  But this whole side that I'm on is just cut back.
• 21:57
  It's just, you know, 6 to 8 foot drops to just mud and sand and
• 22:03
  kind of pain to get down to get to the water.
• 22:07
  And so I turned back and started heading back and I was going to
• 22:11
  go the opposite side of where my camp was.
• 22:14
  There's this Big Lake and about 5-10 minutes in the walk back,
• 22:20
  I'm holding my quiver like football carry just a no, no,
• 22:26
  But, and whenever you watch the show, you can see that I, I keep
• 22:30
  on dipping that quiver and one of my arrows fell out and I
• 22:36
  didn't notice. I got kind of got hung up in
• 22:38
  some brush and took a few steps back and then pushed my way
• 22:43
  through that brush. And whenever I, I LED down with
• 22:46
  my left foot arrow shoved in the back of my leg right at the bend
• 22:51
  of right at the bend of my knee. And gosh, so I knew like, you
• 22:57
  know, I've got arteries there. You know, you got the femoral,
• 23:00
  femoral turns into popliteal right there at that split.
• 23:04
  And, and I'm looking at this arrow and I'm thinking to
• 23:08
  myself, like, man, I might die. And so I turned, I turned the
• 23:14
  camera on and it was about, you know, I know, like if you hit
• 23:20
  the, the femoral, you, you and your, your blood or your heart
• 23:25
  rate's up, you got all this adrenaline, blood's going to be
• 23:28
  pumping. And so before I messed with the
• 23:32
  arrow, I turned my camera on and started saying bye to my wife.
• 23:37
  But I started, you know, watching the clock kind of sit
• 23:41
  down. And eventually I saw 5 minutes
• 23:44
  on that clock And I was like, hey, I'm not dead yet.
• 23:46
  I'm going to, I'm going to doctor myself up.
• 23:48
  I'm going to stay. So I cut my pants, which was
• 23:52
  kind of a bummer. I remember thinking to myself,
• 23:55
  which is really ridiculous, but your mind does crazy things out
• 23:58
  there. But I have these, you know,
• 24:02
  they're like $200 hunting pants on.
• 24:06
  And I was like, if I, if I, if I cut these off, I can't save
• 24:09
  them. So I'm just going to cut a
• 24:10
  little bit of a hole so I can patch them up later.
• 24:13
  And so I started cutting and then stall the arrow finally
• 24:17
  where it where it entered. And there wasn't a whole lot of
• 24:20
  blood at this point. So I went to working on it and
• 24:25
  got my Leatherman out, started sawing it and I felt every tooth
• 24:29
  of that leather Leatherman hit that arrow and it just like
• 24:32
  vibrated through my leg. And so I was like not doing
• 24:35
  that. I went to put my Leatherman back
• 24:39
  in. I had the arrow in my left hand
• 24:41
  just like holding it, you know, still on my leg.
• 24:45
  And I felt it give a little bit. So I was like, I can pull this
• 24:48
  sucker out. So, you know, looking back, I
• 24:52
  know how dangerous that was. I wouldn't advise anybody to do
• 24:56
  that. But you know, the shock I was in
• 25:00
  the, the adrenaline, I had all that stuff.
• 25:03
  I was just fixated on thing. And so I pulled it out.
• 25:09
  I had a, a tourniquet in my quiver.
• 25:11
  I had a Israeli bandage in my quiver.
• 25:14
  And I just, I grabbed the first thing I could, which was the
• 25:17
  Israeli bandage, wrap myself up, bothered myself, gathered all my
• 25:22
  stuff and, and took off back to camp.
• 25:26
  Got back to camp and sat there and argued with myself for a
• 25:30
  little bit, started preparing. And then, you know, I was like,
• 25:34
  no, I'm staying. So I started preparing to, I was
• 25:37
  going to Stow myself up with my fish hooks that I brought.
• 25:42
  I stood up to go get some water, but I had to make that climb
• 25:47
  down to the water. At this point, I was probably a
• 25:51
  couple 100 yards from the water's edge and I stood up,
• 25:55
  grabbing my pail, took a step with my left leg that got the
• 25:59
  arrow in it. And I just fell over.
• 26:01
  And I, and at that point I stopped.
• 26:04
  I'd looked around and, you know, realized I can't, I can't walk.
• 26:07
  I'm going to have to crawl. And then I started seeing all
• 26:10
  this blood and I was just like, man, there's the population of
• 26:15
  like the bear density. I can't remember the exact
• 26:18
  numbers, but I know there was a lot of Grizzlies in the area
• 26:22
  because every morning I woke up, I saw a new grizzly tract right
• 26:26
  by where I was building my permanent shelter.
• 26:29
  And so, you know, I had a moment of clarity and I was just like,
• 26:33
  man, there's blood everywhere. I can't defend myself.
• 26:36
  I can't walk. I'm not going to die.
• 26:39
  But like, you know, this is a really dangerous situation.
• 26:43
  And so I proceeded to argue with myself for about another hour
• 26:47
  and then made the call to to call myself out.
• 26:53
  It was a bumper. Yeah, it was rough.
• 26:56
  I had a lot riding on that, you know, a lot.
• 27:01
  But, you know, I'm thankful for the experience.
• 27:05
  And but I was determined to stay.
• 27:08
  And that that's a determination just really pushed me, I think,
• 27:13
  beyond. I wasn't thinking about myself
• 27:20
  at that point. I was thinking about, you know,
• 27:24
  staying on the show, proving myself.
• 27:25
  And, you know, I just had this moment of clarity where I was
• 27:29
  like, man, if I stay, I'm going to be in real in real pain.
• 27:32
  I might might get sepsis or I might get mauled by a bear.
• 27:36
  You know, there's all kinds of possibilities.
• 27:37
  And so, you know, I know there's a lot of people out there with a
• 27:40
  lot of different opinions of me, you know, whatever they want to
• 27:46
  say. They've said a lot of stuff, but
• 27:48
  they weren't there. And like, I made the best
• 27:50
  decision that I knew. And I knew with that caliber of
• 27:55
  wound that I would have been pulled anyways if the Med team
• 27:59
  showed up for a Med check and they would have pulled me
• 28:03
  anyway. So I just kind of, you know,
• 28:05
  made that decision for myself, so.
• 28:10
  Pretty intense. Yeah, Yeah, you could say that.
• 28:14
  Yeah. How long was it?
• 28:18
  Was there a goal for how long to stay out?
• 28:19
  Or you just have to outlast everyone else.
• 28:22
  Yeah, you just, you just kind of outlast everyone else.
• 28:26
  I predicted, I think, I think I said maybe like 90 days.
• 28:35
  And that was that wasn't my goal was 90 days.
• 28:38
  I was just going to. I was determined to stay as long
• 28:41
  as it took. But but, you know, things
• 28:44
  happen. I think I think that's well, I'm
• 28:47
  not going to give away the well, I mean, it's out now.
• 28:50
  It's been out for a while. So I think it's like 86 days was
• 28:54
  like the the, the longest that somebody stood out there, stayed
• 28:58
  out there. And the guy that won it deserves
• 29:00
  it. And he was just a phenomenal
• 29:04
  human being, phenomenal outdoorsman, you know, stayed
• 29:10
  cool and collected and respectful the whole time.
• 29:13
  And I really look up to that guy.
• 29:15
  He was a a master at what he did and he 100% deserves it.
• 29:20
  But you know, I, I still, my goal was to beat everybody out
• 29:26
  there. You know, I didn't really have
• 29:29
  a, a set date. I was just like, I'm going to,
• 29:31
  I'm going to be out there till, till it's done so.
• 29:34
  Yeah, with your beau carving, where has it?
• 29:45
  Where has it LED you? So basically you started with
• 29:48
  four bows and you moved to your parents place, had an abundance
• 29:50
  of Osage. Where did that kind of take you
• 29:54
  with things? I think, you know, a lot of what
• 30:01
  I've experienced the last several years has a lot to do
• 30:05
  with the community that I got wrapped up in thanks to Rick
• 30:10
  and, you know, then the the alone crew.
• 30:15
  You know, it led to a lot of really cool experiences.
• 30:20
  I've met a lot of really awesome people that have kind of just
• 30:24
  brought me in to what they've already got going on.
• 30:27
  And so, yeah, I've, I've made a lot of bows for a bunch of
• 30:32
  different events that, you know, people have invited me to you.
• 30:35
  And so it's, it's just, it's let it, it's led me to a lot of
• 30:40
  really great experiences, great connections with people.
• 30:45
  My, the business really never took off, but I think that's
• 30:48
  because of the timing of everything.
• 30:52
  You know, I, I just moved to my parents property.
• 30:57
  We had just started a garden, got my bow business moving,
• 31:02
  started started making some bows for I got a few commissions and
• 31:07
  started posting videos on YouTube and Instagram and
• 31:11
  started doing like TikTok lives. And that's whenever the show
• 31:16
  kind of picked me up, they reached out and they're like,
• 31:18
  hey, we were interested on having you on the show.
• 31:21
  And I think this was like maybe six months into me moving, you
• 31:27
  know, me and my wife just kind of uprooting and moving out to
• 31:31
  the country and living in a camper.
• 31:33
  And so everything was really new, but everything started to
• 31:37
  pick up right then. And then and then I just went
• 31:40
  Mia for a while because, you know, you can't, you can't post
• 31:45
  on social media. And, you know, I mean, I was
• 31:48
  still posting videos, but I really wasn't pursuing building
• 31:52
  the company at that point because all of my time and
• 31:55
  effort was going to getting prepared for, for the show.
• 32:01
  And then facing that. I think people are afraid to use
• 32:05
  the word failure, but I failed and I failed at my goal.
• 32:10
  And that's OK. Like failure's part of life.
• 32:12
  Then you just got to keep on keep on going.
• 32:15
  But I think whenever I got back it, it kind of got me into and
• 32:27
  I, yeah, I, I think I was a little depressed, you know, or
• 32:34
  shell shock. I had a lot of, a lot of, a lot
• 32:39
  of stuff going on my brain that I had to kind of work through.
• 32:41
  And then facing all those negative comments, then just
• 32:44
  like the weight of that failure kind of hit me.
• 32:49
  And so everything kind of went stale for a while.
• 32:54
  And instead of going straight, I mean, I, I started building bows
• 32:59
  again pretty immediately whenever I got back home, but I
• 33:03
  had to pick up a lot of extra work, you know, framing and that
• 33:08
  kind of like general construction work just for
• 33:12
  immediate income. And so that kind of that kind of
• 33:17
  kept me busy for a little bit. But yeah, I went through some.
• 33:22
  I'm leery to use the word depression.
• 33:25
  Yeah. You know, but but yeah, I mean,
• 33:30
  I guess it was a, it was a type of depression that just kind of
• 33:37
  made me sink back a little bit and kind of slowed things down.
• 33:40
  And I didn't have quite the drive that I did before.
• 33:43
  There's just a lot going on mentally at that point.
• 33:47
  But I still tried to, you know, stay in the community and and go
• 33:52
  shoot at tournaments and be involved and all that as much as
• 33:55
  I could. But I knew, I knew things
• 33:58
  weren't clicking like I wanted them to you.
• 34:01
  I lost the momentum. And that's not to the fault of
• 34:04
  the show, but just the timing of everything showing up just kind
• 34:09
  of slowed everything down. Does that make sense?
• 34:10
  Yeah, Yeah, it does. And what was your, was there
• 34:18
  anything that you were doing that helped you to come out of
• 34:21
  that reluctant to use depression, but what was it that
• 34:26
  helped you move through that? I talked to you some previous
• 34:32
  contestants on a loan that kind of, you know, went out before
• 34:37
  they wanted to and just ask them what they've experienced.
• 34:42
  And the production crew also provides a a therapist to talk
• 34:50
  to you. And so I talked to him a couple
• 34:52
  times and he really encouraged me to you like Manny, even if
• 34:56
  you don't feel like it, like get out there and do it.
• 35:01
  Whenever I got back, I, I had a conversation with him and, and I
• 35:06
  was like, man, I just, I love hunting.
• 35:08
  I love getting out in the woods. It's hard for me to get out of
• 35:11
  bed some days, you know, just have that motivation.
• 35:13
  He's like, he really encouraged me to do it anyways.
• 35:16
  And so it was right at the beginning hunt hunting season.
• 35:21
  And so, you know, I, I'd hobble out there with my bum leg and
• 35:25
  just sit and wait and started doing more and more of that,
• 35:31
  just getting outside, doing doing the things I love.
• 35:33
  Started building bows again, started going fishing.
• 35:37
  But the problem with building bows was that was income.
• 35:42
  That was my job. That was the in the motivation I
• 35:46
  had behind that was just to pay bills.
• 35:49
  I had lost the, the love of the craft at that point.
• 35:54
  And so it was really hard for me to get back into that because
• 35:58
  all it was is a way to make money, a way to make ends meet.
• 36:03
  And so I kind of shifted from that to just doing stuff that I,
• 36:07
  that I loved that was not to make money, not to provide for
• 36:11
  myself, hanging out with friends, going fishing, going
• 36:15
  and shooting my bow instead of like, you know, worrying about
• 36:18
  the business. So it was just a lot of go out,
• 36:23
  do something that you enjoy for yourself and get back involved
• 36:27
  in that kind of stuff. And that's that's what I did.
• 36:30
  And eventually I started building bows again just for the
• 36:36
  love of it, but it took a while. It took a while to get there.
• 36:42
  Yeah, there's a lot of, there's very few Bowers, I think, who
• 36:45
  have been able to turn it into a full time job and still be able
• 36:49
  to maintain that passion, that Spark Ford and a lot of the, a
• 36:52
  lot of the Boggers who I worked with for Project Quiver are
• 36:55
  relieved that they didn't do that.
• 36:57
  They were at a crossroads at some point realizing they could
• 37:00
  make an income from it, make a living from it.
• 37:02
  And people like Waylon Olive and Corey Hawk and Jake Fenwick,
• 37:06
  they did that and they love it and they're doing great with it.
• 37:10
  And then there are other people who are really glad they didn't
• 37:12
  do it because they felt like it would have taken away that
• 37:17
  whatever it is that Beau carving for themselves brought to them.
• 37:21
  Yeah. Yeah, I, I definitely see that
• 37:26
  it's a, it's a passion. And whenever you turn passion
• 37:29
  into business, sometimes for some people like myself at the
• 37:33
  time, I think it was just the timing of everything that did it
• 37:35
  for me and the pressure that just kind of turned it into
• 37:42
  something that, you know, I didn't fall in love with.
• 37:47
  And I, I hate that like, but you know, I don't, I don't want to
• 37:51
  view this thing that I love, this creative aspect of it and
• 37:56
  this art form. And, you know, the love that I
• 37:59
  do have for archery and, and building bows.
• 38:02
  I never wanted that to become a, a pressure thing, never wanted
• 38:06
  that to become something that, you know, pushed me away from
• 38:10
  that love. But it, it did for a little
• 38:12
  while. I still love making bows.
• 38:15
  I still love making Commission bows.
• 38:18
  It's just not, it's not quite on the trajectory of where I'm at
• 38:22
  right now. So, you know, it's just, it's
• 38:25
  just part of it and realizing that and that that's OK.
• 38:28
  Like you're not, you know, you're not a failure because of
• 38:31
  that. Like, you know, stick with where
• 38:36
  your love is and and be honest with yourself and, and move on.
• 38:41
  You know, like it is what it is. You can't let that.
• 38:43
  No, you're. That's that's definitely not a
• 38:46
  failure and it would be, it would be, it'd be more of a
• 38:51
  failure to force yourself to continue doing something that
• 38:55
  you were no longer passionate about just to make exactly.
• 38:58
  And that that doesn't make sense that that's failing yourself and
• 39:01
  then your loved ones because you're not able to show up for
• 39:03
  them either if you're out there doing something that you're just
• 39:06
  not enjoying anymore. Sadly, that's what I think the
• 39:09
  majority of people in the West do.
• 39:11
  They go out and work a job that they don't like.
• 39:14
  Sometimes they hate it just to make ends meet, to bring home
• 39:16
  the paycheck and they're not fulfilled.
• 39:19
  So something like Bo carving is a hobby.
• 39:22
  It's phenomenal. Or any hobby.
• 39:24
  You know, people need these hobbies, whether it's hunting or
• 39:26
  archery or Bo carving or Flint knapping or whatever it is.
• 39:31
  You mentioned earlier that you got out to a bunch of different
• 39:36
  archery events. What sort of events?
• 39:39
  Like are those shooting events or were you going to some of the
• 39:41
  big Jamboree or the big archery jams?
• 39:46
  Whenever I got involved in the archery world, the first one I
• 39:50
  went to was over in Prairie Grove, AR.
• 39:54
  It's called Cane Creek Archery Club and you can find them on
• 39:57
  Facebook and I think Cane Creek archeryclub.com.
• 40:01
  They got the website. But that's the first one that I
• 40:04
  kind of got involved with. The guys out there are fantastic
• 40:09
  mentors of mine. They are lovers of the craft and
• 40:14
  they build bows. They Flint Knapp, they all the,
• 40:18
  all the survival stuff, all the bushcraft stuff, the primitives,
• 40:22
  the primitive world. They one guy out there, his
• 40:27
  name's Bondo. Well, that's his nickname.
• 40:30
  Everybody calls him Bondo, but he's a, he's kind of a big
• 40:34
  mentor to me and kind of pushed that craft.
• 40:38
  I, I would ask him questions all the time.
• 40:40
  So I really got wrapped up in that archery club.
• 40:44
  Now we we work with them, my wife and I work with them to
• 40:49
  kind of run that archery range. Put it on their website.
• 40:55
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you are.
• 40:59
  That's kind of our baby really it's, it's their baby.
• 41:03
  But we, we love that community. And so we just wanted to support
• 41:07
  that and lift it up and, and bring as many people as we could
• 41:10
  just to, you know, bring back the love of archery and, and
• 41:15
  build that, that community down in Northwest Arkansas and kind
• 41:21
  of create, you know, what you see in these bigger archery
• 41:25
  events around around the state. We wanted to create that here,
• 41:31
  you know, bring that to Arkansas.
• 41:33
  And so that's that's our goal there.
• 41:34
  We're still pushing to to build it.
• 41:37
  We're still pushing to make it bigger, create really cool, cool
• 41:41
  events. But that's the one that really I
• 41:43
  spent a lot of time at. And then of course, you got the
• 41:47
  Tennessee Classic. That's one that I try to make it
• 41:50
  to you every year. I haven't been in a few years.
• 41:55
  And there's OJM as well. There's a lot of that's a cool
• 41:58
  one that's over here in Missouri.
• 42:00
  They just build bows that a lot of bow building going on there.
• 42:04
  So that's cool. But really I just stick to you
• 42:06
  Cane Creek Archery and Tennessee Classic.
• 42:09
  Those are the main ones that I that I focus on.
• 42:13
  OK, yeah, I hope to my daughter and I are really hoping once our
• 42:16
  book is published to do a bit of a tour next year and hit all
• 42:18
  these major archery events. I've not been to any of them.
• 42:22
  So I know like Tennessee Classic is definitely on our our list to
• 42:26
  go to and maybe, oh, jam and guitar and I don't know, they
• 42:29
  all sound like like fun things. Yeah, man, I love them.
• 42:35
  I love the competition. I love mostly just going to see
• 42:39
  and, you know, people that love, love archery and like spending
• 42:44
  time with those folks and the primitive side of it.
• 42:46
  You know, there's a, there's a lot of good friends that I have
• 42:48
  all over the place that, you know, show up at these events.
• 42:51
  And so for me it's, you know, go to go to shoot with some
• 42:55
  buddies, maybe build some bows and just, you know, reconnect
• 42:59
  with, with these wonderful folk. That's what it is for me.
• 43:02
  And it's, it's just a wonderful community.
• 43:06
  Just, you know, whenever you get involved into that, you just
• 43:09
  meet all these wonderful people that just kind of like encourage
• 43:14
  you, lift you up and, and, you know, drive you to be better.
• 43:18
  And that's, that's a real good time.
• 43:19
  So. Cool.
• 43:22
  Yeah, I'm excited to go to some of them.
• 43:25
  You you mentioned earlier that hunting was kind of one of your
• 43:28
  big therapeutic things that helped you move through.
• 43:31
  How long have you been hunting? That kind of started around the
• 43:36
  same time as building bows for me.
• 43:38
  I didn't grow up a hunter. My family, you know, I've got a
• 43:43
  couple brothers that will go out and you know, they'll shoot a
• 43:47
  couple deer a year with their daughters, but they're they're
• 43:52
  all rifle hunters. Nothing against the rifle
• 43:54
  hunter. It's just not my, it's not my
• 43:57
  thing. You know, I want to do the hard
• 43:59
  stuff, but I want to get out there with a stick bow and, you
• 44:03
  know, be close enough that I can hear him breathe.
• 44:06
  And, you know, it's more intimate, more more involved.
• 44:11
  And so the love of that kind of started with the building bows.
• 44:16
  And so, yeah, I guess 2018, I started really digging into
• 44:21
  hunting. And, you know, I've always been
• 44:24
  a fisherman. I've always fished, I love fly
• 44:26
  fishing, but never really stepped into that hunting world,
• 44:30
  mostly due to time, you know, the career I was pursuing at the
• 44:36
  time didn't really lend well to me being out and hunting.
• 44:42
  But now, you know, I, I try to get out there every year, Less
• 44:45
  so the past couple years. Like I said, it's just been wild
• 44:48
  the last couple years. So but yeah, I'm, I'm looking
• 44:51
  forward into you settling in and getting back out there and, and
• 44:55
  pursuing all these things that I have been that I love.
• 44:59
  But but yeah, the hunting's kind of stepped down to you with
• 45:02
  everything else, which is kind of a bummer.
• 45:04
  But trying to get back out there, trying to get my life to
• 45:08
  a point where where I can, you know, focus on all these things
• 45:11
  that I love and, you know, get back into my hobbies and doing
• 45:16
  all that stuff. So but yeah, I, I love hunting
• 45:19
  mostly white, white tailed deer. I love the just the elements of
• 45:25
  figuring out how to get closer, where they're at, where they're
• 45:28
  coming from, what they're eating, you know, the time
• 45:31
  cycles of everything. And you know, the, it's been
• 45:36
  such a learning curve because this this hunting community has
• 45:41
  there's all kinds of, you know, scent control or, or, you know,
• 45:47
  you got to play the with, with the wind.
• 45:49
  There's all these, you know, opinions out there and I loved
• 45:54
  trying to figure out what works best for me.
• 45:58
  And for me that's just that's wearing wool clothing doesn't
• 46:02
  have to be packed out camo, you know, that helps with the scent
• 46:07
  control a little bit and just going to where the deer are
• 46:10
  going to be and like the game of figuring out all that was really
• 46:14
  interesting to me. And you know, hunting with a
• 46:18
  stick bow hunt with a primitive setup or, you know, self bow and
• 46:24
  razor heads doesn't matter. But like that aspect of it
• 46:29
  getting trying to get closer, learning how to do that.
• 46:34
  I just, I love that spot that, that or that part of it.
• 46:39
  And just going and sitting in the quiet and just being, you
• 46:43
  know, waking up early, watching the sun come up, hearing all the
• 46:47
  birds wake up and all the critters and creatures.
• 46:50
  And then, you know, finally here comes the deer.
• 46:52
  And it's just a really cool thing to see, you know?
• 46:55
  Then those deer just start creeping through and, you know,
• 46:59
  it's just cool to see them just appear out of nowhere, you know?
• 47:03
  And I just, yeah, I love everything about it.
• 47:08
  Are you hunting only with a primitive setup?
• 47:10
  Yeah, yeah, I think this next season coming up, I'm going to
• 47:17
  do some gun hunting just to fill my freezer.
• 47:20
  You know, my wife and I, we try to operate the best we can with
• 47:26
  the lifestyle that we have to live as self reliant or
• 47:32
  self-sustaining as possible. So we like to grow our own food.
• 47:36
  We like to eat what we harvest, what we hunt, what we kill, what
• 47:41
  we fish. And so sorry, what was the
• 47:47
  question? I got distracted.
• 47:49
  No, I asked. If you're hunting with primitive
• 47:51
  archery equipment. Yeah, that's, that's my love.
• 47:54
  That's, you know, I love to get out there and hunt with the
• 47:57
  primitive stuff. But I'm finding, you know,
• 48:01
  sometimes I don't get, you don't get as many beer that way.
• 48:05
  It's it's more rewarding to me whenever I do.
• 48:08
  But but yeah, that's that this coming year, I'm going to
• 48:12
  probably start some, some rifle hunting as well, just to fill
• 48:15
  that freezer. Yeah.
• 48:18
  And when it comes to your bushcraft skills, which I guess
• 48:21
  is relatively new to you in the last sounds like 8 years or so
• 48:26
  outside of bow carving and what else has kind of been a, a
• 48:32
  passion of yours that's developed or something that
• 48:35
  you've been really drawn to in the bushcraft realm?
• 48:40
  I think like being proficient at natural, natural materials,
• 48:47
  primitive materials, so Flint knapping, cordage making, fire
• 48:52
  making from anything that that you can find in the woods where
• 48:57
  you're located. So it started, you know, here in
• 49:01
  Arkansas or here in Missouri, what's around me that that I
• 49:04
  could use that that will be good for me.
• 49:06
  What can I do to be as down as possible that I can just go out
• 49:13
  to the woods with a knife and my Archer gear and, you know, water
• 49:21
  bottle, You know, I've got purification system the I use
• 49:24
  the Grail, which is fantastic. So I like to keep everything
• 49:27
  light and and condensed and as easy to use.
• 49:32
  But I like that aspect of that challenge to use those natural
• 49:36
  materials gets me more connected with the earth.
• 49:39
  It gets me connected with my surroundings and the more I can
• 49:45
  learn about what I have here locally, the better, the better
• 49:49
  I am because I, I just, I have this drive to be as proficient
• 49:54
  as I can be in the woods whenever I'm there.
• 49:57
  I don't want to have to rely on all this technology to make me
• 50:01
  proficient. I don't know where that drive
• 50:04
  comes from at all. It's, I don't know.
• 50:08
  It's deep down in my bones, you know, it's, I think it's in all
• 50:11
  of us somewhere. Well, it's ancestral and I feel
• 50:16
  we're being driven that way to probably inadvertently just by
• 50:20
  society because we can no longer a lot of people, myself
• 50:24
  included, I, I can't rely on any other systems or anything to
• 50:28
  take care of me or my family. I just don't trust them anymore.
• 50:31
  And so having that self-reliance and having the skills to be able
• 50:35
  to survive on your own and find your own food and build your own
• 50:39
  shelter and whatever it is, build a fire, those, those
• 50:43
  things are so important. I was just talking, had a, a few
• 50:48
  bushcraft survival people on here recently.
• 50:52
  And yes, was it yesterday, 2 days ago, I was talking to Luke
• 50:58
  McLaughlin. You familiar?
• 50:59
  With Luke, yeah, well, I've never, I've never talked to the
• 51:02
  guy, but I know who he is. Yeah, the Holistic Survival
• 51:06
  School, we had a great chat and we talked a lot about this stuff
• 51:09
  and how like what he's teaching to people, it's so much more
• 51:13
  important, I think, than what's being taught in schools and in
• 51:17
  colleges and in universities. Because really, I mean, those
• 51:20
  things that have most of those things are being taken over by
• 51:23
  AI anyway. But the things that can't be
• 51:26
  taken over are us being out in nature and knowing how to
• 51:28
  survive and kind of going back to our roots.
• 51:31
  So it's, it's beautiful. I would love to be able to do
• 51:35
  more of it and learn more of it. So I'm, I'm really excited that
• 51:38
  I get to talk to people like you and Luke and learn and learn
• 51:42
  from you guys. Even just through these
• 51:43
  conversations, they get excited about learning more.
• 51:45
  And I've got two kids and my son loves bushcraft stuff.
• 51:49
  And so hopefully, like when we go to the Brew Ha bushwhack next
• 51:53
  year, we can pick up some skills or when we go to some of these
• 51:55
  archery events. So so cool.
• 51:59
  You're hunting primarily with primitive kit.
• 52:01
  Are you building exclusively primitive bows, or does that
• 52:06
  depend? Yeah, so all the bows I build
• 52:11
  are are stealth bows 100% through and through.
• 52:16
  You know, I'll put venue backing on some if if the bow lends to
• 52:21
  that rawhide backing. But yeah, like my, the bows I
• 52:26
  build are all primitive. It's, well, not totally
• 52:30
  primitive, I'm sorry. They're, they're self bows.
• 52:32
  I usually use synthetic string material, you know, unless it's
• 52:37
  commissioned otherwise I just, I use a synthetic material just
• 52:45
  for the longevity of things. The there that's, that's part of
• 52:48
  my ease of, of the, the sport, You know, I, I kind of fudge the
• 52:53
  rules here and there. I'm not a purist.
• 52:56
  That's that's forgivable. And of the 14 people included in
• 53:00
  Project Quiver, there's only one who was not using synthetic
• 53:03
  bowstrings, and that was Chuck Loffler, who was making
• 53:08
  primitive replica bows and using primarily linen.
• 53:11
  But yeah, for the same reasons you just mentioned.
• 53:14
  It's just, I think Bowers are Bowers because they love working
• 53:17
  with wood. Not all Bowers want to be making
• 53:21
  strings because, and I've seen videos of like I think Clay
• 53:25
  Hayes making natural strings only to have them break because
• 53:29
  he nicked them with a knife or something.
• 53:31
  It's just like I just spent I don't know how many hours making
• 53:34
  this string and it just blew up on me.
• 53:36
  Yeah, yeah, I've, I've made Yucca strings, I've done, you
• 53:44
  know, Cindy strings, I've done, I've done natural string.
• 53:49
  I've I've messed with it, but and they're fun.
• 53:53
  You know, I've made several little fishing bows, you know,
• 53:57
  just like AD style bow and and you know, there's some Yucca
• 54:01
  right there. So I'll make a string with that,
• 54:03
  you know, go shoot a few fish and make a river cane arrow.
• 54:07
  Like it's fun to to do those things to mess with all that
• 54:11
  natural stuff. But yeah, I think like just just
• 54:15
  to that for the ease of, you know, the Commission builds for
• 54:18
  sure synthetic string and stuff like that.
• 54:21
  Like that's, that's that's where I stay if I'm, if I'm building a
• 54:25
  Commission bow, unless they specify I want, you know,
• 54:28
  natural cordage and and then, you know, I'll do that.
• 54:31
  But yeah, most of if I'm building a bow, it's going to
• 54:35
  have a synthetic string. Yeah, and do you shoot off the
• 54:38
  knuckle with most of your bows or do you put aero shelves?
• 54:41
  I like to shoot off my knuckle. I if if I do a shelf, it's going
• 54:51
  to be like a stacked, stacked leather shelf.
• 54:56
  Yeah. And so if I wanted to you, I
• 54:58
  could take this off and just shoot off my knuckle.
• 55:02
  But yeah, I love, I love shooting off my knuckle.
• 55:06
  There's just, I guess like the way I explain it is like the
• 55:10
  difference from driving an automatic vehicle as opposed to
• 55:13
  a standard, like you just steal everything, you know.
• 55:18
  And so I love that. I love shooting off my knuckle
• 55:21
  there and, and I just feel more connected to everything.
• 55:25
  And, and so whenever you're cutting a shelf in, First off,
• 55:29
  like if you don't do it right, you can mess with the integrity
• 55:31
  of the bow. It'll break right there at that,
• 55:34
  at that joint, you know, and people, people do it.
• 55:39
  They've figured out ways to to carve a shelf in to make it more
• 55:42
  center shot and all this stuff. But like, man, if you build it
• 55:45
  right and if your arrow's right, like shooting off the knuckles,
• 55:50
  the way to go for me. I just I agree.
• 55:52
  Completely. I've actually, I've never shot a
• 55:55
  bow with a shelf. I've never built a bow with a
• 55:56
  shelf. I don't have.
• 55:59
  I don't have an interest in it. And I like, I shoot all my bows
• 56:02
  both hands with both hands, so I'll shoot left and right.
• 56:06
  And so I love my bows to be able to do that and shooting off the
• 56:10
  knuckle. It's I've just never done it any
• 56:12
  other way. So that's the way I prefer it.
• 56:14
  And I think bows are so much more beautiful from that, just
• 56:19
  the visual aspect when they're carved in such a primitive way
• 56:23
  that they don't have the modern risers or shelves or any
• 56:27
  anything that gives them more of that modern luck.
• 56:31
  Yeah, 100% I agree, man. It's there's something, there's
• 56:34
  an elegance to it. You know, it's this, this
• 56:37
  fluidity throughout the entire bow that just man, like Corey,
• 56:42
  like that dude, every time he shows me a bow whenever we're
• 56:47
  bruja, I'm just like, oh, it's a masterpiece, man.
• 56:50
  And like, and part of that is because he builds, you know,
• 56:53
  these, these bows with no shelves.
• 56:55
  And it's just this, this fluid, seamless masterpiece.
• 56:59
  Then, you know, he's a he's he's a huge inspiration to me.
• 57:02
  And I love his work. Every, everything I've seen from
• 57:05
  that guy, I'm just like, man, like it's, it's just gorgeous.
• 57:10
  And he's, yeah, he pushes me. He, you know, every time I see
• 57:14
  something that he's doing, I'm just like, all right, I got to
• 57:16
  step up my game. Like, you know, he's just making
• 57:19
  these like, I mean, you could hang them in a museum.
• 57:21
  You know, he's just incredible. Yeah.
• 57:24
  And there's, you know, not to not to knock anybody that's
• 57:27
  that's cutting shelves in and making, you know, more of a
• 57:30
  modern stealth bow. It's just not my style, man.
• 57:33
  Like, just not, Yeah, you know. Yeah, I think Corey's motto for
• 57:38
  organic arteries, everything a bow needs and nothing it
• 57:40
  doesn't. And yeah, his bows are just that
• 57:43
  pure, elegant, simplicity, beautiful just the way our
• 57:48
  ancestors have made them for thousands of years.
• 57:52
  You're working mostly with Osage, is that correct?
• 57:55
  Or are you now working with other woods?
• 57:58
  Mostly Osage I've leaned into like black locust.
• 58:05
  I've done a few Hickory, a few ash.
• 58:10
  What else have I done? You know, of course the red oak
• 58:13
  board bows. I really don't build any of
• 58:17
  those anymore unless I'm teaching like teens how to make
• 58:19
  a bow. That's a really, like good
• 58:22
  introductory. You know, it's forgiving and
• 58:29
  well, it can be forgiving. It's just simple, more simple to
• 58:32
  work with milled lumber or, you know, dimensional lumber,
• 58:36
  especially whenever you're getting started.
• 58:38
  But like, yeah, for me it's it's Osage as king man That's it.
• 58:45
  It holds up to you. Some abuse, holds heat well,
• 58:50
  holds up to heat well. You know, if I'm, if I'm putting
• 58:53
  reflex in the limbs or anything like that, like I've just found
• 58:57
  Osage to be just everything that I need it to be.
• 59:03
  And I love the challenge of how Osage grows.
• 59:07
  Do you, I mean, it's a, it can be a twisty, snaky, you know,
• 59:13
  relentless wood to work with, but like it's strong and it's
• 59:18
  dirty and it's fast and you know, I just I love Osage black
• 59:24
  focus is I like working with that because it's similar to
• 59:29
  Osage. But you know, whenever you get
• 59:33
  into Hickory and ash and all these things, it's, it's your
• 59:37
  tools react differently to that wood.
• 59:41
  So there's a learning curve there as well.
• 59:43
  You then I tend to use different tools like, you know, if, if I'm
• 59:47
  working with Hickory or ash, mostly if I'm working with
• 59:52
  Hickory, I'm using more like spoke shaves and your draw knife
• 1:00:01
  just kind of grips into that, that those fibers a little bit
• 1:00:06
  more so it doesn't react the same way.
• 1:00:08
  So it's just like, man, I, I've, I've found Osage, I've found
• 1:00:12
  black locusts that operates pretty similarly with with the
• 1:00:16
  tool setup that I have. And that's kind of where I sit.
• 1:00:20
  You know, I know it. I know it well.
• 1:00:22
  And I know what to do with it. And so I've not really ventured
• 1:00:25
  into other things unless I'm building like a, you know, a
• 1:00:29
  green from a green state or like a green sapling or something
• 1:00:33
  like that. Then I'll mess with something
• 1:00:35
  like like Hickory ash or Elm or hackberry or Mulberry.
• 1:00:42
  You know, those are also fun to mess with.
• 1:00:44
  But I kind of just stick with what I know.
• 1:00:49
  What are the tools you're using for Osage?
• 1:00:53
  Very simple setup, use a draw knife, hatchet, chisel, you
• 1:01:02
  know, of course, sandpaper, Draper card scraper, sometimes a
• 1:01:07
  spoke shave, depending on like how detailed I want the like the
• 1:01:13
  handle to look, you know, and I can get little fine details in
• 1:01:16
  there and just carve that handle really cool and special.
• 1:01:19
  I enjoy doing stuff like that. But mostly, yeah, it's just it's
• 1:01:24
  I think like if I were to list out my my setup, it's a a metal
• 1:01:28
  ruler, a pencil card scraper, handsaw like a little like a
• 1:01:38
  fine tooth handsaw. The draw knife, I'm missing
• 1:01:46
  anything and the chisel that's kind of like that's, that's
• 1:01:50
  what's in my, you know, I've got this leather roll that just
• 1:01:52
  holds all those tools and I can take it wherever with me.
• 1:01:56
  But that's, that's generally what I used.
• 1:01:57
  And of course, like for all the finished work, you know,
• 1:01:59
  sandpaper on sandpaper on sandpaper, it's just a lot of,
• 1:02:04
  you know, hand sanding. I really try to stay away from
• 1:02:07
  the power tools, mostly because with power tools you can get a
• 1:02:12
  little carried away and totally ruin a bow in the matter of
• 1:02:16
  seconds. So, and I like, I just like to
• 1:02:19
  pay attention to all the details and make sure I know that grain.
• 1:02:23
  I know that bow from, from tip to tip, you know, I know every,
• 1:02:28
  everything on it well because my fingers have touched everything.
• 1:02:33
  So it's more of a, it's more of a way to make sure that I'm
• 1:02:38
  paying attention to the quality of what I'm creating as opposed
• 1:02:42
  to just rushing through a boat. Yeah, and I didn't hear you say
• 1:02:47
  RASP. Are you not using RASPS at all?
• 1:02:49
  Yeah, Rasp as well, 100%. Yeah, that's that's that's one
• 1:02:53
  of the main tools I use. Do you have like a Nicholson?
• 1:02:56
  Style of rasp OK. Yeah, Nicholson or just a fairy
• 1:03:01
  rasp. Fairy rasp is probably one of my
• 1:03:03
  favorite, especially for you know that that first like
• 1:03:09
  getting a a bunch of mass off those limbs if I need to you and
• 1:03:13
  then I moved to to a smaller raft for that finer detail.
• 1:03:19
  I'll even use. I know it's a little UN.
• 1:03:24
  I don't know what the word is that, but I'll use a metal rasp.
• 1:03:28
  You know, I'll go from from the from a wood rasp, which is kind
• 1:03:32
  of leaves a really rough edge after you get on using it or a
• 1:03:36
  rough surface. And sometimes I'll take that
• 1:03:39
  metal rasp and just kind of smooth that out before I go to
• 1:03:43
  my sandpaper, depending on, you know, if the boat needs it or
• 1:03:46
  not. But I found, you know, that
• 1:03:49
  those fine teeth on the on the metal rasp like just really kind
• 1:03:54
  of helps me smooth that out before I hit it Sandpaper.
• 1:03:58
  So yeah, rasps are definitely, definitely a big part of it.
• 1:04:02
  And use a tillering tree. Yeah, think like the first
• 1:04:10
  couple years it was just a very simple basic.
• 1:04:14
  It was actually attached to a tree, which is kind of funny,
• 1:04:18
  but but yeah, no, no grid system behind her or anything.
• 1:04:22
  It was just, you know, clear backdrop, backdrop of the sky.
• 1:04:27
  And that's kind of what I would use.
• 1:04:30
  But then eventually I built myself a, a tiller tree that has
• 1:04:33
  like a big pegboard behind it, got it all gritted out and just
• 1:04:37
  so I can get more consistent with my tailoring, but still
• 1:04:41
  pretty basic, kind of a lot like Corey's setup is kind of what I
• 1:04:46
  used. You know, I, I appreciate that
• 1:04:49
  guy's work so much, the attention to detail that he puts
• 1:04:54
  into things. And so if there's anybody I try
• 1:04:57
  to emulate, whenever I see something that lends to that
• 1:05:04
  side of things, the, the, the attention to detail, I try to, I
• 1:05:07
  try to make that part of what I do as respectfully as I can, you
• 1:05:11
  know, and you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to steal anything
• 1:05:16
  from anybody. But whenever I see something
• 1:05:18
  good, you know, I'm like, I need to up my game, like, you know, I
• 1:05:22
  need to take a, take a page from the masters here.
• 1:05:26
  And that's, you know, it's so I'm continually growing.
• 1:05:30
  I'm always looking for the better tools or, and you know,
• 1:05:34
  the better way to do things to, to get that consistency.
• 1:05:36
  And he's one of the guys that I, I really follow in that so.
• 1:05:43
  Another thing you didn't mention, some Bowers use
• 1:05:46
  extensively, some don't touch, but calipers use calipers at
• 1:05:49
  all. No, none.
• 1:05:53
  It's all I do a lot of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:59
  I think it, it just adds an element of that and attention to
• 1:06:05
  detail. And I know like with calipers,
• 1:06:07
  like, you know, you can get really precise measurements.
• 1:06:11
  You know, it's just for me, that's just a little step too
• 1:06:16
  far unless I'm like recreating a bow to the exact, you know,
• 1:06:21
  measurements and like this, this kind of thing, like I, I just, I
• 1:06:24
  don't think I would mess with them.
• 1:06:26
  Yeah. And then what sort of so you
• 1:06:32
  mentioned you do some backing on your bows, do you put self
• 1:06:35
  knocks or tip overlays? Yeah, I like the tip overlays,
• 1:06:42
  like deer antler, that's kind of what I used.
• 1:06:47
  And then I love copperhead or, you know, snakeskin backing.
• 1:06:56
  But yeah, I, I like the tip overlays, but it's not totally
• 1:07:00
  necessary. It's just for the flash for me,
• 1:07:02
  you know, if, if somebody wants it, they want it and I'll put it
• 1:07:06
  on there. And sometimes, you know,
• 1:07:10
  depending on the, the dimensions of the knocks that I put on, I
• 1:07:16
  try to get like a really fine knock as much mass as I did as I
• 1:07:20
  can take off the the tips of that bow, the better for the
• 1:07:24
  hand shock. And so if I've got something
• 1:07:26
  that that requires self knocks, like I'll put overlays, then
• 1:07:33
  I'll put overlays on there. But yeah, I just try to try to
• 1:07:38
  stay as natural as I can, you know, with with that stuff.
• 1:07:42
  But but I love the, the artistic part of that as well.
• 1:07:46
  You know, I'm just kind of fancying up the boat.
• 1:07:49
  Yeah. Are you using primarily
• 1:07:51
  materials that you have harvested or?
• 1:07:54
  Yeah, that you've harvested? Harvested like the deer antlers
• 1:07:57
  and the snakeskin backing. Yeah, yeah, it's stuff that I
• 1:08:02
  that I've harvested or that I've traded.
• 1:08:06
  You know, I'll go to the Tennessee Classic and all right,
• 1:08:09
  say I got a, a hatchet that, you know, I don't use anymore.
• 1:08:12
  I'll trade it for a couple snakeskins if they got them.
• 1:08:15
  And, you know, so there's a lot of bartering and trading that
• 1:08:17
  that goes on. But yeah, most of the material I
• 1:08:21
  use on my bows are things that I've harvested myself.
• 1:08:26
  That's cool. And when you're harvesting your
• 1:08:29
  own meat or harvesting a deer, are you using everything?
• 1:08:33
  Yes, yeah, absolutely everything I can use.
• 1:08:36
  What are you doing with the hide?
• 1:08:39
  Yeah, I process the hide out, you know, I flesh it and then I
• 1:08:45
  usually take the hair off unless I'm making like a, you know, a
• 1:08:50
  rug or something. I'll leave the hair on.
• 1:08:51
  But but yeah, I flush it out, turn it into rawhide mostly or
• 1:08:56
  buckskin for my handle wraps, that kind of thing.
• 1:09:00
  But yeah, I do the whole process, flush it out, do a
• 1:09:04
  brain tan on it. If it's, you know, if it's
• 1:09:08
  buckskin, if it's rawhide, I'm just draping down that rawhide
• 1:09:13
  and drying it out, stretching it out.
• 1:09:16
  And then I'll use that for backing on some of my bows.
• 1:09:19
  But I try to try to utilize the entire animal for everything I
• 1:09:24
  can. I've just now I love seeing some
• 1:09:28
  of these guys like Phillip Liebel, another fantastic dude,
• 1:09:34
  just all around outdoorsman. But I've seen some of his
• 1:09:38
  fishing arrows that he's been using and he's using like the
• 1:09:41
  toe bone from the deer. And so like even down to the
• 1:09:44
  bones, I'm, I'm going to start making, making toe bone points
• 1:09:49
  or, you know, bone needles and stuff like that.
• 1:09:53
  So I'm really, I'm really excited to get another deer to
• 1:09:56
  start, you know, getting into those primitive tools from from
• 1:10:00
  bones and even down to like the scraper for the for the, for the
• 1:10:04
  deer skins. And yeah, so my intention is to
• 1:10:09
  is to further my knowledge in completely using everything from
• 1:10:14
  that deer. So like, yeah, that's that's my
• 1:10:18
  goal. I saw another guy using a
• 1:10:19
  jawbone. Well, he handed me a jawbone at
• 1:10:25
  Bruja and was like, try this out for scraping your Yucca for
• 1:10:31
  cordage making. And I used it and I was like,
• 1:10:33
  man, it's brilliant. It's better than, you know, I
• 1:10:35
  usually use a spoon and I was like, it's better than the
• 1:10:38
  spoon. And so down to stuff like that,
• 1:10:42
  Yeah. So my goal is to try to use
• 1:10:45
  every single part of that animal that I can.
• 1:10:48
  Yeah, I enjoy following Will Harrison and his brand tan
• 1:10:53
  leather. You know Will.
• 1:10:54
  Yeah, yeah, I know Will. Yeah, met Will probably four
• 1:11:00
  years ago at Tennessee Classic, saw him online.
• 1:11:04
  We started chatting online and he's one of the guys that I'd,
• 1:11:07
  you know, I'd ask little questions here.
• 1:11:09
  He makes a lot of really crazy snaky bows, just like, I mean,
• 1:11:13
  wild designs. And so I hit him up on a few
• 1:11:17
  questions that I had and we just kind of connected on that.
• 1:11:22
  And yeah, he's a great deed. I love his music.
• 1:11:26
  I love everything that he does. You know, it's just, it's pretty
• 1:11:30
  awesome. My daughter and I really tried
• 1:11:33
  to get him for Project Quivering to be part of our book, but we
• 1:11:36
  didn't succeed. But if we do a volume to, if we
• 1:11:39
  do a volume to, I hope we can get him.
• 1:11:41
  But. Yeah, he's, he's he's pretty
• 1:11:43
  awesome. He's an interesting fellow, but
• 1:11:46
  I like him. I like him a lot.
• 1:11:48
  Yeah. Every time I go back to
• 1:11:49
  Tennessee, the Tennessee classic, he's there and I love
• 1:11:54
  seeing him. I love getting to spend time
• 1:11:56
  with him. He's just a interesting guy and
• 1:11:58
  he's got a lot of, lot of knowledge on these snaky bows
• 1:12:03
  that we really connected on. Cuz like whenever I first
• 1:12:06
  started, all of my material was, was just really snaky, crazy
• 1:12:11
  stuff. And, and I think that's kind of
• 1:12:13
  what, what pushed me to become the bow here I am today, because
• 1:12:17
  messing with all that snaky stuff, there's all kinds of
• 1:12:19
  stuff that pops up that you have to figure out and, and deal with
• 1:12:24
  that, You know, to get a good shooting bow, you know, there's
• 1:12:27
  knots and the, the grain is wild.
• 1:12:29
  And, and to come out with a bow that that shoots well, that is
• 1:12:34
  tillered well and performs like it's supposed to, you know,
• 1:12:39
  messing with that subpar material, you know, lends to
• 1:12:46
  kind of learning a lot more and, and pushing yourself at your
• 1:12:50
  craft. And in fact, I would tell
• 1:12:52
  everybody that wants to start making bows mess with the
• 1:12:56
  hardest stuff 1st. And like, like if you can get
• 1:13:00
  good at making a really good bow out of subpar material, like
• 1:13:04
  whenever you get your hands on a pristine stave, you're going to
• 1:13:08
  make an excellent bow. So start off there, start off
• 1:13:11
  with some crummy stuff that nobody else wants and push
• 1:13:14
  yourself grow. Do everything hard first.
• 1:13:18
  I think reality, the most real thing you can experience is
• 1:13:21
  through really tough, hard experiences, so.
• 1:13:26
  Great advice. I think it brings us closer to
• 1:13:28
  to the stave. We have to have more presence
• 1:13:31
  with it or patience with it, more awareness.
• 1:13:34
  You have a perfect stave. Like you said, it's on your
• 1:13:36
  experienced. It's easy, easier to carve that
• 1:13:39
  into a bow. But when you're sitting with a
• 1:13:41
  really difficult stave, you got to sit with it for a long time.
• 1:13:45
  And I was, I think it was, you know, maybe Steven Bieber
• 1:13:50
  provision bows or someone I was speaking to recently was saying
• 1:13:53
  how they will sometimes study a stave for months and months and
• 1:13:57
  months before they ever start to carve it.
• 1:13:59
  Just to really get to know that stave and figure out what's
• 1:14:03
  going to come out of that, rather than trying to force
• 1:14:05
  something to come from it. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:14:08
  Stephen Bieber is a really cool dude.
• 1:14:10
  I'm at him at the Tennessee Classic my first year ago and we
• 1:14:13
  built a bow together while he was building a bow and I was
• 1:14:16
  building bow, but we were right next to each other and we just
• 1:14:19
  hit it off and that need man, he could he's making some
• 1:14:24
  impressive bows with his design that he's he's come up with.
• 1:14:28
  I think it's really cool to see. You know, the the he's pushing
• 1:14:32
  some some levels, he's pushing some some boundaries and pushing
• 1:14:36
  that wood to limits that I don't think a lot of other people are.
• 1:14:40
  And I think it's just really cool to see somebody take that,
• 1:14:45
  you know, what you're supposed to do and just kind of like
• 1:14:49
  pushed it. And it's really cool to see, I
• 1:14:52
  think his first, well, what does he call him?
• 1:14:56
  I'm trying to remember the animal right now and I it's,
• 1:15:00
  it's a large, it's like a cow or a Buffalo, isn't it?
• 1:15:04
  Yeah. Oh, it's a water Buffalo.
• 1:15:06
  Or. But it's not a water, is it?
• 1:15:08
  No, no, it's damn it. It's a really.
• 1:15:15
  It's right on the tip of my tongue but I can't remember.
• 1:15:17
  And it's a cool name. Yeah, sorry, Steven, but yeah.
• 1:15:21
  Yeah, sorry, Steven, my bad, bro.
• 1:15:24
  But you know, to to see that that first design that he did
• 1:15:29
  and what he was using to get those curves was a dinner table,
• 1:15:33
  you know, and I don't know if he shared that information with
• 1:15:36
  you, but it was just this round dinner table that that he was
• 1:15:39
  attaching this to you. And then eventually he came up
• 1:15:42
  with a form and, you know, the the guys on on to something.
• 1:15:45
  And I just I love seeing that creativity.
• 1:15:48
  Yeah. It's, it's just impressive to me
• 1:15:51
  and just the guy's a demeanor, his demeanor's really cool.
• 1:15:55
  It's an. He's a great guy.
• 1:15:58
  Yeah, I really enjoyed. We had a we had a really awesome
• 1:16:01
  talk. Hope to meet him in person, damn
• 1:16:05
  it. K Porn K Porn K.
• 1:16:07
  Porn, yes. Yeah.
• 1:16:09
  It's a cool name, man. It's he knocked it out of the
• 1:16:13
  park with that and I love the design.
• 1:16:14
  I, I, I shot the bow that that he made at the Tennessee Classic
• 1:16:18
  and I love how it shoots the, you know, it was, it was just
• 1:16:23
  impressive to see it really works as and I'm thankful for
• 1:16:26
  that time that I got to spend with him and I hope to, I hope
• 1:16:30
  to get to see him in person again.
• 1:16:32
  Yeah, yeah. It's so cool how these Bowers,
• 1:16:35
  primitive Bowers especially, that's for me especially because
• 1:16:38
  that's what I'm so drawn to. But they're carving bows the way
• 1:16:41
  bows have been carved for 10,000 years, but they're still
• 1:16:45
  sometimes modifications and things kind of they they carve
• 1:16:50
  at the edge. So they're literally trying new
• 1:16:52
  things and testing new ideas. And it's amazing that after
• 1:16:55
  10,000 years of bow carving that someone like Steven can come
• 1:16:58
  along and have another innovation to it and yet still
• 1:17:01
  keep it so basic and so true to the original craft.
• 1:17:07
  Yeah, I agree. It's good to see.
• 1:17:11
  Yeah, yeah. Kubby, what are you working on
• 1:17:15
  right now? Anything exciting that's coming
• 1:17:17
  down the? Pipeline.
• 1:17:19
  I've got a couple Commission bows that I'm finishing up.
• 1:17:23
  I'm excited to get this is 1. I started at Brew Hall and it'll
• 1:17:28
  just be like a simple Debo. It's got some cool back set to
• 1:17:33
  it, but this is Black Locust. I'm excited to get that one
• 1:17:36
  finished. I'll probably finish that up
• 1:17:38
  this week. But yeah, as far as like
• 1:17:46
  furthering plans for, you know, my company, I'm kind of like I
• 1:17:51
  said, taking a taking a back deep to that.
• 1:17:54
  And if if somebody reaches out for a bow, I'll make one.
• 1:17:58
  But I'm really focused on the kids at my church and and then
• 1:18:03
  my local archery club getting involved in that, involved more
• 1:18:10
  in local event. We got the black bear bonanza
• 1:18:13
  that's coming up with the local BHA in Arkansas.
• 1:18:20
  And that's just kind of raising awareness for bear hunting.
• 1:18:25
  And so I'll be involved with them more trying to make a bow
• 1:18:28
  every year for that event that that comes up.
• 1:18:32
  And I think this, this next one coming up next year, I'm going
• 1:18:36
  to try to be there making a bow real time that way anybody can
• 1:18:42
  come and kind of see, watch the experience and, and try it out
• 1:18:46
  themselves if they want to. And, but I always try to make a
• 1:18:50
  bow specifically for that event to help support that.
• 1:18:55
  And they, you know, they do like a kind of like an auction type
• 1:19:01
  thing for it. And there's all kinds of, of
• 1:19:04
  different companies that show up and, and donate stuff to you
• 1:19:08
  that, and that's, you know, I want to support that best I can.
• 1:19:12
  So, so that, that's another event that I'll show up to you.
• 1:19:16
  But really trying to stay local, try to try to impact the, the,
• 1:19:21
  the community and my, my realm of influence.
• 1:19:25
  And so that's kind of where my, my passion is right now and, and
• 1:19:30
  just support the local community the best I can with everything I
• 1:19:34
  got. So I see my local club and you
• 1:19:37
  know, local events that are going on on here.
• 1:19:41
  Just my best to do my best to be a part of that and bring
• 1:19:45
  whatever awareness I can and whatever support I can.
• 1:19:48
  Just really grow that community. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:19:52
  Any recommendations for someone who I should interview Bowyer?
• 1:19:56
  Anyone that you feel is? But not see the guy I think
• 1:20:04
  about as the last that I think he's like done a public
• 1:20:10
  interview was 20 years ago maybe, but that's Bondo.
• 1:20:16
  You know, he's his name is David Bond and.
• 1:20:21
  David Bond. David Bond and I can, I can get
• 1:20:25
  you his information. I don't know.
• 1:20:27
  I don't know if he'll do the the podcast.
• 1:20:29
  I don't know if he'll do an interview.
• 1:20:31
  You know, he's not in it for recognition.
• 1:20:33
  I've tried to get that guy to do something to be recognized
• 1:20:37
  because he's just, like I said, he's a golden human being and
• 1:20:42
  has a lot of information and a lot of knowledge and he's not
• 1:20:46
  keeping it secret to keep it secret.
• 1:20:47
  I mean, he shares it with everybody that comes in his
• 1:20:50
  presence. But he's just a very humble,
• 1:20:54
  kind hearted man and a force to be reckoned with.
• 1:20:59
  You know, he's, he's man. Yeah, he's he's incredible.
• 1:21:05
  So if if I were to suggest anybody that I look up to you
• 1:21:09
  100%, it'd be that guy. I just don't know if you can get
• 1:21:13
  them. OK.
• 1:21:15
  Well, thanks. I'm trying to think of of who
• 1:21:18
  else that you haven't already interviewed.
• 1:21:26
  There's a guy named Chase. He's a buddy of mine and he just
• 1:21:30
  started making bows. I don't know if you would fit in
• 1:21:35
  what you got going on, but the dudes incredible at his
• 1:21:39
  primitive skills, Flint napping, he's processing all of his own
• 1:21:43
  hides. And I mean, he's just he's a
• 1:21:45
  he's an avid outdoorsman hunter, incredible at his work and just
• 1:21:51
  one of the one of the best Flint nappers I know personally.
• 1:21:56
  But he's another guy. His his his handle.
• 1:21:59
  I think you may have talked to him.
• 1:22:00
  His handles echoes of Paleo I believe.
• 1:22:06
  Oh, yeah, he, well, I, I think he referred you to me and I
• 1:22:10
  think I did ask and I think he said no.
• 1:22:13
  But I'm not. Sure.
• 1:22:15
  Yeah, I'm trying to think of everybody, everybody that I
• 1:22:18
  know. And like, it seems like you're,
• 1:22:21
  you've kind of like collected all the people that that I would
• 1:22:24
  have suggested, like Waylon, all of Corey Hawk, Steven Bieber,
• 1:22:28
  you know, Yeah, I don't know if you've had Clay Haze on or not.
• 1:22:33
  Yet, but I would love to have Clay on and I I wanted Clay in
• 1:22:37
  the book as well, but we didn't have any luck connecting with
• 1:22:41
  him so. Yeah, there's, there's several
• 1:22:44
  of those guys that are just going to be they, they're
• 1:22:46
  reclusive. Yeah, if you're listening, Clay,
• 1:22:48
  reach out. Love to have you.
• 1:22:50
  On Please have you in the next book.
• 1:22:52
  Where can people find you Cubby? You can find me in Pardee,
• 1:22:57
  Missouri. That's the best way to do it.
• 1:23:01
  You can find me in Teen Creek Archery Club down in Prairie
• 1:23:04
  Grove, but Instagram it's Cubberson's custom bows or just
• 1:23:11
  Cubberson's on, on Instagram, YouTube it's Cubberson's custom
• 1:23:15
  bows and yeah, Facebook Cubberson's custom bows.
• 1:23:20
  But that's, that's kind of where I'm at right now.
• 1:23:23
  I'm not very active on social media at this point, but I'm
• 1:23:27
  looking to start, yeah, I'm looking to start making some
• 1:23:30
  videos again, just just because I've had some people reach out
• 1:23:33
  and just like, hey, you know, you're the whole reason I got
• 1:23:36
  into this. And like, you know, we, we love
• 1:23:39
  you and we want to see more from you.
• 1:23:40
  And so for those folks, I might start putting some stuff out,
• 1:23:44
  but I'm just, you know, I'm over the social media stuff, man.
• 1:23:49
  Yeah. I want to.
• 1:23:51
  Influence for the people. Yeah, I my, my influence.
• 1:23:55
  I don't want to be an influencer.
• 1:23:56
  I don't, I don't want that. I, but I want to influence the
• 1:23:59
  people right next to me, you know, in my, in my area, not
• 1:24:04
  because I don't care about everybody else, but, you know,
• 1:24:07
  there's a lot of people here that I really want to spend some
• 1:24:11
  intentional time with. And that's kind of what my
• 1:24:13
  life's about, you know, is, is just being as intentional as I
• 1:24:16
  possibly can with the people right next to me.
• 1:24:19
  And I have a lot of love for for everybody else that's not right
• 1:24:23
  next to me. But my time and my focus is on
• 1:24:26
  my family and those, those right in my community and just giving
• 1:24:31
  everything I have to those folks.
• 1:24:33
  And if you're in the area, you get the same treatment.
• 1:24:38
  And that's just, that's where I'm at, you know?
• 1:24:40
  Beautiful. Well, I hope to be right beside
• 1:24:43
  you at some point in the near future so we can continue,
• 1:24:46
  continue the connection. Thank you so much for doing
• 1:24:49
  this. You have any questions before we
• 1:24:50
  sign off? I don't, I just want to say I
• 1:24:53
  appreciate you, you reaching out to me.
• 1:24:56
  I've I've, I've been a fan of what you've got going on and I'm
• 1:25:00
  a fan of all the people that you've had on.
• 1:25:02
  I think you're doing brilliant work and just bringing awareness
• 1:25:05
  to to this community and this this love of, of making bows,
• 1:25:09
  man, I think it's I think it's pretty fantastic what y'all are
• 1:25:12
  doing. Awesome.
• 1:25:14
  Thank you, Kabir. I really appreciate it and
• 1:25:16
  thanks again for coming on. Yeah, brother.
• 1:25:28
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• 1:25:31
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