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I Choose … Detours over Dead Ends with Elizabeth Smart · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

0:01
Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,
0:09
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
0:12
Speaker 1: the choices we make, and today I am going to
0:15
Speaker 1: introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single
0:18
Speaker 1: day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen
0:23
Speaker 1: years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and
0:27
Speaker 1: held her for grueling nine months. They took her as
0:31
Speaker 1: their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she
0:35
Speaker 1: knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling
0:39
Speaker 1: you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is
0:43
Speaker 1: here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices
0:46
Speaker 1: she has made since her rescue, the choice to not
0:50
Speaker 1: only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours,
0:54
Speaker 1: Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with
0:59
Speaker 1: the help of what she calls rest stops along the way,
1:03
Speaker 1: we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will
1:07
Speaker 1: certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please
1:11
Speaker 1: welcome Elizabeth Smart.
1:13
Speaker 2: Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me.
1:16
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to
1:18
Speaker 1: say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention
1:23
Speaker 1: your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right,
1:28
Speaker 1: how did that come about?
1:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm
1:33
Speaker 2: all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every
1:36
Speaker 2: time I kind of think like the retelling of my
1:40
Speaker 2: story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along.
1:45
Speaker 2: And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no,
1:48
Speaker 2: people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough
1:50
Speaker 2: from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent
1:54
Speaker 2: a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors
1:58
Speaker 2: and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how
2:03
Speaker 2: I realized that when you share your story, you give
2:07
Speaker 2: permission to other people to share their stories. Let you
2:11
Speaker 2: talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other
2:13
Speaker 2: people to share their trauma. And so then when this
2:16
Speaker 2: opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on
2:18
Speaker 2: a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I
2:22
Speaker 2: would be on. This is great.
2:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to
2:29
Speaker 1: continue to be heard because it's an important one. You
2:32
Speaker 1: had a terrible thing happened to you early on in
2:34
Speaker 1: your life. I remember watching in real time as the
2:37
Speaker 1: news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was
2:41
Speaker 1: gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a
2:46
Speaker 1: new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're
2:50
Speaker 1: not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I
2:55
Speaker 1: want to just focus on your path forward.
2:58
Speaker 2: Right.
2:59
Speaker 1: In fact, you said that you don't want your book
3:03
Speaker 1: or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma
3:06
Speaker 1: dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you
3:09
Speaker 1: mean by that, Well.
3:10
Speaker 2: Just that this book is not meant to dive into
3:15
Speaker 2: the gory details of what went on. I mean, I
3:18
Speaker 2: feel like my first book was the retelling of my
3:22
Speaker 2: story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably
3:26
Speaker 2: ever go into on a public stage. And this book
3:30
Speaker 2: is different. This is not my first book, this is
3:32
Speaker 2: not my story. This is more trying to really identify
3:36
Speaker 2: the steps that I took that have allowed me to
3:40
Speaker 2: move forward.
3:42
Speaker 1: So this is very important for those nine months back
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Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you
3:49
Speaker 1: had to learn to be strategically silent as a form
3:54
Speaker 1: of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're
3:58
Speaker 1: choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you
4:03
Speaker 1: consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield
4:09
Speaker 1: to now your voice being sort of your superpower.
4:12
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had
4:15
Speaker 2: so many mentors to look up to, so many people
4:19
Speaker 2: that I admire, and my family has been certainly every
4:25
Speaker 2: member of my family has been one of those mentors
4:28
Speaker 2: and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually,
4:32
Speaker 2: I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt
4:34
Speaker 2: like I felt like it was days later, but now
4:37
Speaker 2: I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was
4:40
Speaker 2: flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work
4:43
Speaker 2: on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and
4:46
Speaker 2: every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like
4:51
Speaker 2: he was going up to our capital to law before it.
4:55
Speaker 2: And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared
5:00
Speaker 2: or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families.
5:03
Speaker 2: He was talking to the families, trying to provide help,
5:05
Speaker 2: trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could.
5:12
Speaker 2: And then he was going to search centers and helping
5:14
Speaker 2: to do searches for other people. So I had the
5:17
Speaker 2: incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents,
5:21
Speaker 2: my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the
5:25
Speaker 2: importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you
5:29
Speaker 2: borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got
5:32
Speaker 2: it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did
5:34
Speaker 2: you fill it all the way up full with gas
5:36
Speaker 2: even though maybe it only came to it half empty?
5:39
Speaker 2: Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did
5:41
Speaker 2: you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that
5:46
Speaker 2: was kind of our family. I don't know just how
5:50
Speaker 2: they were, And so I never thought that, I mean,
5:55
Speaker 2: I would give back simply by telling my story. But
5:59
Speaker 2: when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know,
6:05
Speaker 2: was the better part of a decade later, after I
6:07
Speaker 2: was rescued and finally shared all of these details that
6:12
Speaker 2: I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling
6:16
Speaker 2: like I haven't given any context to this. This just
6:19
Speaker 2: feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed,
6:24
Speaker 2: like if all this is going out where I didn't
6:26
Speaker 2: want to go to begin with, Like it needs to
6:28
Speaker 2: serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose.
6:31
Speaker 2: And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my
6:34
Speaker 2: opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know,
6:37
Speaker 2: would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like,
6:40
Speaker 2: little by little, I don't think he ever tried to
6:44
Speaker 2: like pull me into it, but just his questions and
6:47
Speaker 2: his example just kind of helped lead me in through
6:51
Speaker 2: shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I
6:54
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more
6:57
Speaker 2: like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's
6:58
Speaker 2: out there, so I'm yes.
7:01
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people
7:03
Speaker 1: go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined
7:08
Speaker 1: by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself
7:12
Speaker 1: by your strength and your life after the event. How
7:16
Speaker 1: did you get there? What were the mental steps that
7:21
Speaker 1: took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from
7:25
Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter,
7:29
Speaker 1: the wife, the mom.
7:31
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's really like one of the
7:33
Speaker 2: core of what this book is. And I mean it
7:36
Speaker 2: starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life.
7:40
Speaker 2: I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we
7:43
Speaker 2: all have this image of how we see our life
7:47
Speaker 2: laid out in front of us. We have like this
7:49
Speaker 2: this road, if you will, of what our life, where
7:52
Speaker 2: our life is going to take us. And I haven't
7:55
Speaker 2: met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right
8:00
Speaker 2: sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something.
8:04
Speaker 2: And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay
8:09
Speaker 2: to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that
8:13
Speaker 2: you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents
8:17
Speaker 2: they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I
8:19
Speaker 2: could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married.
8:23
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact.
8:28
Speaker 2: And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all
8:34
Speaker 2: moved on with our lives. But at the same time,
8:36
Speaker 2: like there is some grief around like holidays or special
8:43
Speaker 2: events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely,
8:49
Speaker 2: you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths,
8:53
Speaker 2: grieve the life that you you thought you were going
8:56
Speaker 2: to have, but it's also important to not just stay
9:00
Speaker 2: in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong
9:02
Speaker 2: with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But
9:07
Speaker 2: you need to find your way forward. You need to
9:10
Speaker 2: find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just
9:14
Speaker 2: as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower,
9:19
Speaker 2: maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like
9:22
Speaker 2: there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes
9:26
Speaker 2: maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah.
9:30
Speaker 1: I know you have a strong religious belief system that
9:33
Speaker 1: you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people
9:37
Speaker 1: believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or
9:41
Speaker 1: traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny,
9:45
Speaker 1: that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to
9:48
Speaker 1: reference your source has chosen this path for you, and
9:52
Speaker 1: if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking,
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Speaker 1: you will overcome it. My question here is, in your
10:00
Speaker 1: years of healing, did you ever question that faith or
10:05
Speaker 1: did you ever or did you just accept that this
10:08
Speaker 1: was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling.
10:13
Speaker 2: So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had.
10:19
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith
10:21
Speaker 2: that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe
10:24
Speaker 2: I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know,
10:26
Speaker 2: but I also just feel like for me, like belief
10:30
Speaker 2: is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's
10:34
Speaker 2: word for it, Like I have to know something before
10:37
Speaker 2: I believe it or not.
10:39
Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right,
10:41
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't either.
10:43
Speaker 2: That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's
10:46
Speaker 2: happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did
10:48
Speaker 2: I always just think that was the plan for my life?
10:51
Speaker 2: I guess I still as a child and still now
10:54
Speaker 2: I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by,
11:00
Speaker 2: I want to believe that he loves us. And if
11:03
Speaker 2: he loves us, I don't think he would say you're
11:06
Speaker 2: going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to
11:08
Speaker 2: go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're
11:12
Speaker 2: gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't
11:17
Speaker 2: believe that a loving God would want that for us
11:21
Speaker 2: in our own I think other people make decisions, and
11:24
Speaker 2: we're all free to make our own decisions. I think
11:28
Speaker 2: God always wants the best for us, and we can
11:33
Speaker 2: let him in as much or as little as we
11:35
Speaker 2: want into our lives. And I think that you know,
11:40
Speaker 2: if you do let him in, you can I think
11:44
Speaker 2: easier find your way forward easier than if you just
11:49
Speaker 2: shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about
11:56
Speaker 1: that before, and I was never like a real faith believer.
12:01
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had that support. But once
12:05
Speaker 1: I decided that I was missing faith in my life,
12:08
Speaker 1: it just really changed everything. I felt so so much
12:11
Speaker 1: more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know,
12:14
Speaker 1: so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back
12:18
Speaker 1: on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I
12:20
Speaker 1: think that's what we all should do as we get
12:22
Speaker 1: older and kind of define what it is that we want.
12:26
Speaker 1: I think that's so admirable.
12:28
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.
12:35
Speaker 1: This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and
12:38
Speaker 1: I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something.
12:40
Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in your position right now now that
12:44
Speaker 1: you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly
12:48
Speaker 1: at night? How do you sleep in the next room
12:50
Speaker 1: to your babies and not just lose your mind with
12:53
Speaker 1: worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever
12:57
Speaker 1: sleeping through a night after what happened to you.
13:00
Speaker 2: Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember
13:04
Speaker 2: just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat
13:07
Speaker 2: to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my
13:09
Speaker 2: heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting
13:12
Speaker 2: for it to like settle back down into my chest
13:15
Speaker 2: and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't
13:18
Speaker 2: know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like,
13:23
Speaker 2: there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay
13:26
Speaker 2: with this and I feel like I do need to
13:29
Speaker 2: know where they're at. I need to know who they're with,
13:33
Speaker 2: like I need to. I just I need to know
13:38
Speaker 2: what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I
13:42
Speaker 2: don't think I could function because I just be a
13:44
Speaker 2: hot mess all the time. Yeah.
13:46
Speaker 1: I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what
13:50
Speaker 1: you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was
13:54
Speaker 1: just the one thing for me as a mom. And
13:57
Speaker 1: then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I
14:01
Speaker 1: just my heart goes out to what that must be like.
14:06
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's good that I have my husband
14:10
Speaker 2: here to be the voice of reason.
14:13
Speaker 1: Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes
14:19
Speaker 1: you need that voice of reason to get you to
14:22
Speaker 1: just calm down do you teach your kids about your past,
14:25
Speaker 1: about what happened, and how do you do that without
14:29
Speaker 1: allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their
14:33
Speaker 1: future or their fear.
14:35
Speaker 2: So one of the I wish I came up with this.
14:37
Speaker 2: I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not.
14:40
Speaker 2: But one of the best pieces of parent and advice
14:43
Speaker 2: I was given was when your kids start asking you questions,
14:47
Speaker 2: that's the right time to start talking about it. And
14:50
Speaker 2: remember I was given that advice before even my first
14:54
Speaker 2: was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice.
14:57
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure
14:59
Speaker 2: there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're
15:01
Speaker 2: going to use the correct body part names, like I'm
15:03
Speaker 2: not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like
15:07
Speaker 2: penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow
15:10
Speaker 2: or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because
15:13
Speaker 2: for me, like as a kid growing up, I was
15:16
Speaker 2: just like oh, but so like I had all these
15:23
Speaker 2: ideas of how I was going to parent my children,
15:26
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm
15:28
Speaker 2: going to give them like the answers, like I won't
15:30
Speaker 2: be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's
15:32
Speaker 2: conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing
15:37
Speaker 2: me to speaking to my oldest when she was three
15:40
Speaker 2: years old about them, because she started asking questions. I
15:45
Speaker 2: was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm
15:47
Speaker 2: not ready to go.
15:48
Speaker 1: How does she know at three years old to ask
15:50
Speaker 1: questions about it.
15:51
Speaker 2: I was getting ready one day to go to a
15:53
Speaker 2: parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going?
15:58
Speaker 2: Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed
16:01
Speaker 2: down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like,
16:04
Speaker 2: why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble.
16:06
Speaker 2: I was like no, I was like, I'm going down
16:09
Speaker 2: there to make sure that people who do bad things
16:11
Speaker 2: don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things
16:15
Speaker 2: do they do? She's like why are you going? Did
16:17
Speaker 2: they do something to you? Oh?
16:18
Speaker 1: She's curious about everything.
16:22
Speaker 2: So I mean that did end up me talking about
16:25
Speaker 2: what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't
16:29
Speaker 2: it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really
16:31
Speaker 2: started off as you know, a long time ago, when
16:34
Speaker 2: I was very little, there was a man and woman
16:37
Speaker 2: who came in and took me and they hurt me,
16:39
Speaker 2: and they hurt me for a long time. But now
16:41
Speaker 2: they're in prison, so I want to make sure they
16:42
Speaker 2: stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was
16:45
Speaker 2: kind of that first conversation with her. But then as
16:50
Speaker 2: as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well.
16:53
Speaker 2: And like, you know, when I say no to things
16:56
Speaker 2: that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you
17:00
Speaker 2: remember what my job is. My job is to keep
17:02
Speaker 2: you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting
17:05
Speaker 2: you do this because this is not safe.
17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids,
17:11
Speaker 1: but I can imagine it being double hard for you
17:13
Speaker 1: because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's.
17:19
Speaker 2: Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know,
17:23
Speaker 2: sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not.
17:28
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as
17:30
Speaker 1: they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those
17:34
Speaker 1: questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the
17:37
Speaker 1: documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from
17:40
Speaker 1: kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's
17:43
Speaker 1: gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth.
17:46
Speaker 1: And I think that that's you're going about it the
17:49
Speaker 1: right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes
17:52
Speaker 1: I feel like I in sort of create more fear
17:56
Speaker 1: in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies
18:01
Speaker 1: out there. But also at the same time, I think
18:04
Speaker 1: you need to be afraid. You need to have a
18:07
Speaker 1: certain level of fear in order to remember to keep
18:10
Speaker 1: yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going
18:13
Speaker 1: to happen to you.
18:15
Speaker 2: I think for me it's very important that I mean
18:18
Speaker 2: all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong
18:22
Speaker 2: and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to
18:25
Speaker 2: always be polite. I was always raised to you know,
18:28
Speaker 2: respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it
18:33
Speaker 2: was very hard for me to say no. So I
18:37
Speaker 2: want them to feel like they can fight back, that
18:40
Speaker 2: they can say no, that they have my permission to
18:44
Speaker 2: not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate
18:48
Speaker 2: with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand
18:55
Speaker 2: up for themselves and that all back them up. So,
18:57
Speaker 2: I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or
19:00
Speaker 2: sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that,
19:03
Speaker 2: and they turned around and like they defended themselves and
19:07
Speaker 2: maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the
19:10
Speaker 2: I don't know the principle or something was like, oh,
19:12
Speaker 2: you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd
19:14
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and
19:17
Speaker 2: I want her to feel strong, and I want her
19:20
Speaker 2: to know that nobody has the right to touch her
19:22
Speaker 2: and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone.
19:25
Speaker 2: I've heard this example given so many times, and I
19:28
Speaker 2: think it's such a good example. If you look at
19:32
Speaker 2: the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you
19:36
Speaker 2: would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator
19:39
Speaker 2: with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the
19:44
Speaker 2: prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as
19:48
Speaker 2: human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't
19:52
Speaker 2: get into that elevator, we will still do it because
19:55
Speaker 2: we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to
19:58
Speaker 2: appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we.
20:02
Speaker 1: Don't want to make it awkward.
20:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings
20:07
Speaker 2: in our gut, the little voice in the back of
20:10
Speaker 2: our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me
20:12
Speaker 2: being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid.
20:15
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And
20:19
Speaker 2: as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too.
20:23
Speaker 1: Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help
20:27
Speaker 1: you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones,
20:32
Speaker 1: no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier
20:35
Speaker 1: than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious,
20:38
Speaker 1: how did you find the right people after all this
20:42
Speaker 1: to help you navigate these detours as you call them.
20:46
Speaker 2: So for me, it was just it was I mean,
20:52
Speaker 2: it was finding people who just liked me for me.
20:56
Speaker 2: Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart
21:01
Speaker 2: or because of the past, or because I got extra
21:05
Speaker 2: attention or anything like that. They just they liked me
21:08
Speaker 2: for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband,
21:12
Speaker 2: he had no idea who I was. He didn't know
21:15
Speaker 2: my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like,
21:19
Speaker 2: never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me,
21:23
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah,
21:27
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more.
21:30
Speaker 2: And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing,
21:35
Speaker 2: because on the other hand, I had so many kind,
21:38
Speaker 2: well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know
21:42
Speaker 2: you must be struggling so much. What would you like
21:44
Speaker 2: to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you
21:47
Speaker 2: experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like?
21:51
Speaker 2: And even though I know they're being kind, it also
21:54
Speaker 2: just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that
21:58
Speaker 2: they wanting to like dig in more and more and
22:01
Speaker 2: more for which again, that was just not something I
22:05
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it
22:09
Speaker 2: in the past. So that is a I get I
22:11
Speaker 2: feel like a very basic example of you know, well
22:15
Speaker 2: meaning people but maybe not the best to be around
22:19
Speaker 2: versus people that really loved me for me and my
22:23
Speaker 2: past made no difference to them at all.
22:27
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid
22:31
Speaker 1: of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a
22:33
Speaker 1: way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to
22:36
Speaker 1: them or some sometimes you can be off putting if
22:39
Speaker 1: that's what you need to do, but like if they
22:41
Speaker 1: were close friends and family, like, how did you say,
22:44
Speaker 1: like I need space from you and I don't want
22:46
Speaker 1: to discuss this.
22:48
Speaker 2: I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh,
22:53
Speaker 2: you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank
22:55
Speaker 2: you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let
23:00
Speaker 2: you know if I need to talk about it later,
23:03
Speaker 2: but I'm okay right now.
23:04
Speaker 1: And then you just sort of like you like, thin
23:07
Speaker 1: the weeds a little and find you're right the path
23:10
Speaker 1: of the little patch of grass that feels right. I'm
23:13
Speaker 1: so glad that you found your husband. I mean, what
23:17
Speaker 1: a wonderful gift to have somebody that's walking beside you.
23:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm so happy we found each other.
23:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. You call them detours, like I mentioned, you also
23:35
Speaker 1: call them rock slides, those unexpected events and experiences, whatever
23:40
Speaker 1: you call them. Those can end up causing a lot
23:42
Speaker 1: of pain. And you have experienced, you know, some pretty
23:47
Speaker 1: major detours, from the kidnapping to that phone call from
23:51
Speaker 1: your dad telling you that he and your mom are
23:53
Speaker 1: getting a divorce that I'm sure shook you. I'm sure
23:56
Speaker 1: there have been other painful events in the course of
23:58
Speaker 1: your life so far. How do you work through that
24:03
Speaker 1: residual pain, I guess is my question again.
24:06
Speaker 2: I feel like it it is like going through these
24:09
Speaker 2: steps in the book, you know, like grieving the loss,
24:13
Speaker 2: then you know, trying to navigate a new way forward
24:16
Speaker 2: pursuing connection. So I mean, for instance, in my parents' divorce,
24:21
Speaker 2: my siblings were going through the same thing, and so
24:24
Speaker 2: I feel like it brought us together in some ways
24:30
Speaker 2: that maybe it wouldn't have either otherwise. And listening, I
24:37
Speaker 2: feel like it gave me like a new understanding and
24:40
Speaker 2: compassion for other people who would experience the same things.
24:44
Speaker 2: And you know, I think back to like my childhood
24:47
Speaker 2: and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced,
24:50
Speaker 2: and I had no idea what that was. That was
24:52
Speaker 2: like as a kid, and you know, they'd be like, oh,
24:54
Speaker 2: I'm going to my mom's house and I'm going to
24:56
Speaker 2: my dad's house now. And now I'm like, man, I
25:00
Speaker 2: feel like I can't that sounds awful. I can't imagine.
25:05
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because my parents divorced when I was
25:08
Speaker 2: an adult. That's terrible. So I still feel like it
25:10
Speaker 2: gave me compassion and empathy, and you know, it's caused
25:15
Speaker 2: me to like pursue more connections in my life, meaningful connections.
25:21
Speaker 2: It forced me into well force is maybe the wrong word,
25:25
Speaker 2: but before my parents were divorced, i'd say, my relationship
25:28
Speaker 2: with my dad kind of piggybacked off of my mom
25:31
Speaker 2: because I talked to my mom so much before they
25:33
Speaker 2: were divorced that like, if my dad was around, just
25:37
Speaker 2: be like, oh hey Dad, Yeah, how are you doing? Yep,
25:38
Speaker 2: We're good, okay, yep. See yeah. But then you know,
25:42
Speaker 2: when they divorced, like I had to be very intentional
25:46
Speaker 2: about my relationship with him because it couldn't just piggyback
25:49
Speaker 2: off my mom anymore because they weren't together anymore. So
25:53
Speaker 2: I feel like that was a good good I mean,
25:59
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a good thing for me to really
26:02
Speaker 2: establish my own relationship. But yeah, kind of opened a
26:06
Speaker 2: different door for you as far as that connection, I think. Yeah.
26:10
Speaker 2: And then you know, like as you move forward down
26:13
Speaker 2: these new paths, finding like the joys are the reasons
26:16
Speaker 2: to be thankful along the time. I mean again, had
26:19
Speaker 2: I not been kidnapped, you know, I'd like to think
26:23
Speaker 2: that I would still care as much as I do
26:26
Speaker 2: about sexual abuse, violence, subduction, domestic violence, I'd love to
26:32
Speaker 2: think that I care as deeply as I do. But
26:35
Speaker 2: also I think I probably would have continued living a
26:37
Speaker 2: life where those conversations were not being had I can
26:41
Speaker 2: very easily imagine maybing like oh those are terrible, that's
26:44
Speaker 2: so sad, that's terrible, But that doesn't happen very often.
26:48
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen to me, So like people who know
26:51
Speaker 2: what they're doing are already dealing with it, whereas now
26:54
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is everywhere, Like you want to talk
26:57
Speaker 2: about an epidemic, like talk about domestic violence or sexual abuse,
27:03
Speaker 2: like numbers are through the roof.
27:08
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are just like, like you said,
27:11
Speaker 1: it's not happening to me. That's terrible. But there's that also,
27:15
Speaker 1: that just ability to kind of shut it off because
27:18
Speaker 1: either it's just so ugly we don't want to look
27:21
Speaker 1: at it, we don't want to think about it, or
27:23
Speaker 1: if we do, maybe we'll bring it into our lives
27:25
Speaker 1: or something exactly.
27:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now I'm grateful that it has given me
27:32
Speaker 2: this empathy and understanding and confecsion and like desire to
27:40
Speaker 2: want to change is our nation? Our world?
27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, lit up a passion inside of you that maybe
27:48
Speaker 1: never would have ignited.
27:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what do you do.
27:52
Speaker 1: Though, when your brain reminds you of stories that you
27:56
Speaker 1: don't want to think about anymore? Like how do you
27:58
Speaker 1: quiet the those memories or voices inside your mind.
28:03
Speaker 2: So I feel like there, I mean, I feel like
28:06
Speaker 2: it's something actually you preach and it's kind of choosing
28:10
Speaker 2: to take care of yourself or having practices that you
28:14
Speaker 2: make a part of your life so that when maybe
28:17
Speaker 2: something does become too much, you can step back and
28:20
Speaker 2: take a break. Because I think breaks are great. I
28:22
Speaker 2: think breaks are wonderful.
28:23
Speaker 1: So makes are the.
28:24
Speaker 2: Best going for a walk? Is that listening to an
28:28
Speaker 2: audiobook or a podcast, or a piece of music, or
28:31
Speaker 2: maybe it's playing music or singing music yourself, or making
28:34
Speaker 2: a cake, or just doing something that's engaging your senses
28:40
Speaker 2: in something other than just sitting, like letting those memories
28:44
Speaker 2: overtake you.
28:45
Speaker 1: And you've had that, I'm sure, those moments where it's coming,
28:49
Speaker 1: it's happening, you're starting to swirl down that memory of
28:51
Speaker 1: a toilet, you know, and those that's when you consciously
28:55
Speaker 1: are like, Okay, nope, we are going to focus on
28:57
Speaker 1: something else right now.
28:59
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, definitely, I have had those experience.
29:03
Speaker 1: That takes such self awareness, I think, and it also
29:07
Speaker 1: takes a certain amount of strength to It's almost like
29:11
Speaker 1: training your brain to not think certain things because you
29:18
Speaker 1: know they're not going to do you any good.
29:21
Speaker 2: I yeah, I agree completely. I think our brain has
29:26
Speaker 2: so much power and influence on how we live our
29:31
Speaker 2: daily lives, and I think it's so important for us
29:34
Speaker 2: to train our brains to be kind to us because
29:38
Speaker 2: I think if you just like go down that toilet
29:41
Speaker 2: bowl of negativity, that is what your brain is going
29:44
Speaker 2: to say to you. That's just going to make it
29:45
Speaker 2: even worse and worse. But I think when you find
29:48
Speaker 2: yourself going down that negative spiral, if you have like
29:53
Speaker 2: spoken kind words to yourself repeatedly, and you have incorporated
30:00
Speaker 2: like healthy practices into your life, or have been able
30:02
Speaker 2: to say no, I'm not comfortable with this, or felt
30:06
Speaker 2: like you have some control given back to you in
30:09
Speaker 2: your life, like the ability to say no, the ability
30:12
Speaker 2: to have a car to be able to get into
30:15
Speaker 2: to drive away if a situation feels unsafe, or a
30:18
Speaker 2: phone to call someone to come pick you up. I mean, like,
30:23
Speaker 2: I think it's these are just like really important practices
30:27
Speaker 2: to engage in regularly, and starting by speaking kindly to
30:31
Speaker 2: yourself in your inner dialogue.
30:34
Speaker 1: Yes, that inner dialogue is so can be so crafty,
30:41
Speaker 1: so wicked sometimes to just undermine us and knock us out.
30:48
Speaker 2: I agree completely. I have run a number of marathons.
30:52
Speaker 1: And how many marathons have you run?
30:56
Speaker 2: Well? In my book, I said four, and I was
30:58
Speaker 2: about to run five. I go to the fifth one,
31:01
Speaker 2: and the morning of the fifth one, it actually was
31:03
Speaker 2: canceled due to weather and accidents.
31:07
Speaker 1: Oh no, so you drained and then it was canceled.
31:09
Speaker 2: I trained, and I've still only run four.
31:12
Speaker 1: But before hi, I've never run to the corner. So
31:16
Speaker 1: good job for you.
31:18
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. But in each marathon, there's always been
31:21
Speaker 2: like a wall that I have hit. I feel like
31:25
Speaker 2: it's usually between mile like eighteen and twenty one where
31:29
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I can't do this. Why am I
31:32
Speaker 2: torturing myself? I paid for this torture. I paid to
31:37
Speaker 2: like for this misery. My whole body hurts. What am
31:41
Speaker 2: I doing? I shouldn't have done this? And I kind
31:43
Speaker 2: of start that negative self talk, and then I'll have
31:47
Speaker 2: my my like, I'll catch myself in this negative self talk,
31:51
Speaker 2: and like my brain will say, Elizabeth, pull yourself together.
31:55
Speaker 2: You survived nine months with these two monster. You are
32:01
Speaker 2: not going to let this little marathon stop you. Like
32:05
Speaker 2: you are not going to stop at twenty miles or
32:08
Speaker 2: twenty one miles, you are going to finish it. If
32:10
Speaker 2: you have to curl on your hands and knees, like
32:13
Speaker 2: you are stronger than this marathon. Usually at that point
32:17
Speaker 2: in time be like, Okay, I can do this, I
32:18
Speaker 2: can finish and I did.
32:21
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean that is like kind of like parenting
32:24
Speaker 1: yourself from within, you know, like you said, basically, once
32:31
Speaker 1: you conquer something that you didn't think you could conquer,
32:33
Speaker 1: and in your case a very extraordinary situation, but even
32:38
Speaker 1: in smaller situations, once you realize, look what I've done,
32:43
Speaker 1: I can do anything. Now, there's nothing I can't survive,
32:48
Speaker 1: it really gives you that sort of like peace to
32:52
Speaker 1: rely on yourself in a whole new way.
32:55
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I just think, you know, people come to
32:59
Speaker 2: me all the time and they're like, oh, Elizabeth, you're
33:01
Speaker 2: so strong. You're so strong. I could never go through
33:04
Speaker 2: what you went through. That is just something so far
33:06
Speaker 2: beyond me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Well,
33:09
Speaker 2: if you told me what I was going to go
33:11
Speaker 2: through before I went through it, I would say the
33:13
Speaker 2: same thing. I would say, Well, I couldn't do that.
33:16
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me, like, I'm not strong enough to
33:18
Speaker 2: go through that. I think I'd rather die than go
33:19
Speaker 2: through that. But when you don't have a choice, yeah,
33:25
Speaker 2: you don't have a choice. You just survive. You just
33:28
Speaker 2: do what you have to do. And I wish everyone
33:31
Speaker 2: could recognize that in themselves. We will all go through
33:36
Speaker 2: something in life where you think I I can't do
33:41
Speaker 2: this or I can't go on, But then you also
33:44
Speaker 2: realize you don't have a choice. You can't just wave
33:49
Speaker 2: a magic wand and make the situation disappear, right, You
33:53
Speaker 2: just have to go through it. And Wow, Like, aren't
33:57
Speaker 2: we all so strong? Aren't we all so incredible?
33:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it's within us all. I think we just
34:02
Speaker 1: don't know it.
34:03
Speaker 2: Sometimes aren't people just incredible and amazing?
34:08
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about sort of like the
34:10
Speaker 1: victim versus survivor topic. There's a quote from your book
34:16
Speaker 1: where you say, here is where I see the difference.
34:18
Speaker 1: While survivors are working tirelessly to overcome their rock slides
34:24
Speaker 1: and navigate their detours, victims have fallen prey to the
34:28
Speaker 1: idea that they are their trauma.
34:32
Speaker 2: I mean, the.
34:32
Speaker 1: Truth is, you were a victim, but you've chosen to
34:38
Speaker 1: be a survivor, and that is incredible, But do you
34:40
Speaker 1: think do you ever feel like labeling victim or survivor
34:45
Speaker 1: can become problematic? Because I mean, the truth is it's
34:49
Speaker 1: not a linear thing, this healing that has to happen,
34:53
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a daily choice.
34:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like the only person that can
35:00
Speaker 2: label you accurately as yourself. So I'm not going to
35:05
Speaker 2: sit here and be like, she is a survivor. She
35:07
Speaker 2: is not. He's a survivor. She is a survivor, he's
35:10
Speaker 2: a victim, right Like, I will never sit here and
35:13
Speaker 2: do that. I think it's in each one of us
35:17
Speaker 2: to decide for ourselves what are we And you're absolutely right,
35:21
Speaker 2: healing is not linear. And I mean you can be
35:25
Speaker 2: going along like five ten years down the road being
35:29
Speaker 2: like life is just great, like no problems whatsoever, and
35:33
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's just like something something
35:36
Speaker 2: blows up to the surface and you're like, but I
35:38
Speaker 2: already worked through this, Why is this coming up now?
35:43
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's totally normal. That it doesn't mean
35:47
Speaker 2: you didn't heal, or that you're not better today than
35:50
Speaker 2: you were ten years ago or five years ago or
35:52
Speaker 2: however long like that that just happens as part of life.
35:56
Speaker 2: I mean, and you work through it again, and you
35:59
Speaker 2: keep moving and you keep you don't give up. You
36:02
Speaker 2: don't just think, well I failed, I didn't maybe I
36:05
Speaker 2: didn't do enough therapy sessions, or maybe I didn't you know,
36:07
Speaker 2: like do enough self reflection, or like you don't give up.
36:11
Speaker 2: You just keep trying. And you know, I feel like
36:17
Speaker 2: none of us should give up on ourselves, Like none
36:20
Speaker 2: of us should surrender to what our own worst trauma is,
36:26
Speaker 2: like believe in yourself, believe you deserve more than your
36:29
Speaker 2: worst experiences. Mm hmm.
36:32
Speaker 1: And is there something in to be said about not
36:37
Speaker 1: not allowing yourself to label yourself a victim or to
36:41
Speaker 1: sort of take a trauma and lead with it for
36:45
Speaker 1: the rest of your life.
36:47
Speaker 2: I think labels are very dangerous because I think they
36:51
Speaker 2: do limit you and you don't see beyond that. You
36:55
Speaker 2: just see, oh, well, this is me, like kidnaps. I'm
36:59
Speaker 2: just nap girl, Like that's all'll ever be. And if
37:04
Speaker 2: I truly thought that, then like I would still be
37:08
Speaker 2: in that same mind space that I was twenty twenty
37:13
Speaker 2: two years ago. But I'm I'm not in that mind
37:18
Speaker 2: space anymore. And so I just like you can let
37:25
Speaker 2: your certainly people can let their traumas define them, but
37:28
Speaker 2: they don't have to, and it might take time to
37:31
Speaker 2: work through them. But that doesn't mean that that's what
37:33
Speaker 2: defines you, right.
37:36
Speaker 1: I think it's so important for people to realize that,
37:39
Speaker 1: but it's really hard when you're in it.
37:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, remembered shortly after I got home. I remember thinking, Man,
37:47
Speaker 2: if I died tomorrow, what would people say at my funeral?
37:51
Speaker 2: Like they just talk about, Wow, this is such a tragedy.
37:54
Speaker 2: She lived such a tragic life, survived abduction and kidnapping,
37:58
Speaker 2: only to die now. And I remember just thinking that's
38:01
Speaker 2: all anyone would talk about. And I remember thinking at
38:03
Speaker 2: that point in time, I was like, when I eventually die,
38:06
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to talk about my kidnapping. I
38:10
Speaker 2: want people to laugh or make fun of me, or
38:14
Speaker 2: be like this was so funny when or like this
38:17
Speaker 2: was a special memory, or I was like I don't,
38:19
Speaker 2: like I want it to be about me, not my abduction.
38:22
Speaker 1: Right, I mean I can I can definitely see what
38:26
Speaker 1: you're saying, because inevitably someone in the press or someone's
38:30
Speaker 1: going to you know, you know when you do leave
38:33
Speaker 1: this planet, that's going to be talked about, and really
38:36
Speaker 1: you don't have any control. But what you do have
38:38
Speaker 1: control is surrounding yourself with the people that you know
38:41
Speaker 1: no more than that and love you deeper than that.
38:45
Speaker 1: So that's where those connections and that support system really
38:48
Speaker 1: comes comes in handy.
38:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely, which is why relationships are so important, and find
38:57
Speaker 2: the ones that build you up and love you and
38:59
Speaker 2: support you through thick and thin.
39:03
Speaker 1: Have you had to let go of friendships that didn't
39:06
Speaker 1: serve you, Yes.
39:08
Speaker 2: I mean I'd see a lot of the ones that
39:11
Speaker 2: weren't solid faded on their own. I mean I didn't
39:17
Speaker 2: necessarily have to go through and be like, hey, you're out,
39:20
Speaker 2: You're out. You didn't. I feel like a lot of
39:24
Speaker 2: them just kind of died on their own. There have
39:28
Speaker 2: been some that have been more more difficult, because you know,
39:34
Speaker 2: like sometimes you can really love a person and feel
39:39
Speaker 2: like you do anything in the world for them, and
39:41
Speaker 2: then you just realize that feeling is not reciprocated and
39:45
Speaker 2: you're pouring love and energy into a relationship that is
39:48
Speaker 2: not pouring love and energy back into you, and that
39:53
Speaker 2: could be really hard.
39:54
Speaker 1: To Absolutely, I want to know more about this in
39:59
Speaker 1: your book you you call them rest stops. So these
40:05
Speaker 1: are just your techniques, your tips that have worked for
40:08
Speaker 1: you in order to heal and move forward in your life.
40:14
Speaker 1: I can just name a few, and you can expand
40:16
Speaker 1: on them, allowing yourself to grieve the lost path and
40:21
Speaker 1: the destinations that disappeared with it. Why is that important.
40:27
Speaker 2: Because kind of going back a little bit to what
40:30
Speaker 2: I was saying earlier, I mean, you do have this
40:32
Speaker 2: vision of how your life is going to go, and
40:36
Speaker 2: when that vision is disrupted, it can be heartbreaking. It
40:41
Speaker 2: can be devastating. You know, like you thought you were
40:45
Speaker 2: going to marry this man, You thought he was the
40:47
Speaker 2: love of your life, and then he dies in a
40:49
Speaker 2: car accident. And I mean, not only are you grieving
40:53
Speaker 2: the loss of someone you love, but also the life
40:56
Speaker 2: that you envisioned for yourself, like having a found together,
41:00
Speaker 2: going on vacations together, growing old together, and you're grieving
41:04
Speaker 2: that loss as well. So it's like I would, honestly,
41:10
Speaker 2: I encourage you to not be shy about being sad
41:15
Speaker 2: or angry or hurt when your life changes its path.
41:19
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's okay to feel those emotions and it's
41:22
Speaker 2: okay to sit in that pain for for as long
41:26
Speaker 2: as you need.
41:28
Speaker 1: You say, avoid the trap of comparison. I agree one
41:33
Speaker 1: hundred percent. It's a trap. Have you avoid it?
41:37
Speaker 2: Like just recognizing we are all different? I know we
41:41
Speaker 2: say it all the time. I hear it. I feel
41:43
Speaker 2: like you hear people be like, we're all like snowflakes,
41:45
Speaker 2: you know, like every snowflake is different, or you're like
41:47
Speaker 2: your fingerprint, everyone's different, or dental records, whatever, like everyone
41:53
Speaker 2: is different. But actually truly believing that because we're all different,
41:57
Speaker 2: I mean, someone else could be kidnapp in just the
42:00
Speaker 2: same manner as I was, go through the exact same
42:03
Speaker 2: things with the exact same monsters, but we would still
42:06
Speaker 2: have different stories because we're individual, we're different people Like
42:11
Speaker 2: whoever was the other person who went through that? They're
42:14
Speaker 2: not me and I'm not them, so we'd be different.
42:18
Speaker 2: And I feel like, too far, too often have people
42:21
Speaker 2: say like, oh, I went through something similar, but nothing
42:24
Speaker 2: in comparison, And I want to be like, well, there
42:26
Speaker 2: are no comparisons. There's no way to accurately compare what
42:32
Speaker 2: one person went through versus another person. Because we're all different.
42:35
Speaker 2: We all have our own unique set of skills that
42:39
Speaker 2: you just can't compare to anyone else's.
42:42
Speaker 1: H Absolutely, I think sometimes we forget I know I do.
42:45
Speaker 1: I forget that even like in my relationship with my husband,
42:49
Speaker 1: I forget that he's a different set of eyeballs, he
42:53
Speaker 1: has a different complete, different take on any given situation,
42:58
Speaker 1: or even what something looks like for him is completely
43:01
Speaker 1: different or maybe completely different than what it looks like
43:05
Speaker 1: for me. And I think in the world, we kind
43:08
Speaker 1: of walk around thinking everybody is sees the way you
43:12
Speaker 1: do or thinks the way you do, but so not
43:15
Speaker 1: the truth.
43:16
Speaker 2: It really it really isn't I mean, yeah, we are
43:20
Speaker 2: all just so different. And even like another another silly example,
43:24
Speaker 2: I have this friend who she like if she had
43:29
Speaker 2: pursued sports when she was younger, like, I have no
43:33
Speaker 2: idea how far she would have gone, but I invited
43:35
Speaker 2: her to come train with me for a marathon. I
43:38
Speaker 2: convinced her to run a marathon with me, And I'd say,
43:41
Speaker 2: I'm actually a pretty disciplined person, Like if it's something
43:45
Speaker 2: I care about and want to do well, and like
43:47
Speaker 2: I can show up, I can do the work as
43:49
Speaker 2: I can do the runs, and like I like followed
43:53
Speaker 2: the plan. I mean, like she was good, but I
43:57
Speaker 2: know that I followed it more than she. And then
44:01
Speaker 2: race day came and I was like, yes, I'm gonna
44:03
Speaker 2: do so well. She blew me out of the water.
44:06
Speaker 2: Really oh, she destroyed me. And I was just like,
44:10
Speaker 2: but I traded so hard. But that was like me,
44:15
Speaker 2: just like, what is she doing that I'm not doing? Like,
44:19
Speaker 2: but that's just because we're different people, Like, we're just different.
44:23
Speaker 1: It just seems like such a waste of time to
44:25
Speaker 1: compare yourself, right.
44:28
Speaker 2: Exactly.
44:28
Speaker 1: Yes, you say, resist the urge to isolate, pursue connection fearlessly.
44:37
Speaker 1: Sometimes that can be easier said than done.
44:40
Speaker 2: I agree, I'm probably a naturally more reserved person.
44:46
Speaker 1: Would you say you're an introvert. Yes, yeah, I'd.
44:49
Speaker 2: Say I'm a functioning introvert. Like right, small talk I
44:52
Speaker 2: can and then if you have to at the end
44:55
Speaker 2: of the night, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired, nobody
44:58
Speaker 2: else talk to me. I'm done, right, this is it.
45:01
Speaker 1: I need to go recharge. Yeah, that happens to me too.
45:06
Speaker 2: But I mean finding I think I think the difference
45:09
Speaker 2: is finding the people that you don't feel exhausted after
45:13
Speaker 2: being with finding the people that recharge you, that you
45:18
Speaker 2: enjoy being around. So maybe it's not having you know,
45:21
Speaker 2: a hundred friends, maybe it's just having one or two.
45:25
Speaker 2: But by being around them, you don't feel like you're
45:30
Speaker 2: being drained. You feel like you are receiving instead of
45:34
Speaker 2: just giving.
45:36
Speaker 1: Yes, you also say, when it comes to dreams, set goals,
45:42
Speaker 1: not deadlines.
45:44
Speaker 2: Yes, I fall prey to both. Like just honestly, I
45:51
Speaker 2: do fall prey to both. I'll be like, by this day,
45:54
Speaker 2: I am going to have all of this done, or
45:57
Speaker 2: like even in this book by you know, in six months,
46:01
Speaker 2: the first draft is going to be done. Right does
46:06
Speaker 2: that ever happen? No, No it doesn't. But just setting
46:09
Speaker 2: the goal to like write the book. You know, this
46:12
Speaker 2: process has gone on for I want to say, over
46:15
Speaker 2: a year and a half. Maybe we're closing it on
46:17
Speaker 2: two years now. I need to I need to go
46:20
Speaker 2: back and rethink it all. You know, like it here,
46:24
Speaker 2: I am.
46:25
Speaker 1: Like here, it is, this is where I am right here,
46:28
Speaker 1: I am.
46:28
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you know, deadlines can be helpful,
46:32
Speaker 2: they can move us, but I also think they can
46:35
Speaker 2: be very very detrimental because then you're like, I didn't
46:38
Speaker 2: make it. I didn't do it. This was all for naught.
46:41
Speaker 2: I'm a failure, right, And then you just go back
46:45
Speaker 2: down into that negative spiral.
46:47
Speaker 1: So I know you're a huge family person, so committed
46:52
Speaker 1: to your family, and so they've just been such a
46:56
Speaker 1: great support to you. Now that your parents have divorced
46:59
Speaker 1: and you made a huge I choose me moment when
47:01
Speaker 1: he came out, how has that affected your family dynamics?
47:08
Speaker 2: I feel so heartbroken for both my parents. You know,
47:12
Speaker 2: my mom was in a marriage for thirty years. She
47:16
Speaker 2: thought they were going to be together their whole lives,
47:18
Speaker 2: like they had built a life together, and then for
47:22
Speaker 2: my dad to come out, like I can't imagine how
47:31
Speaker 2: heartbreaking and difficult that would be for my mom to
47:35
Speaker 2: feel like her life and everything she'd work for had
47:38
Speaker 2: all of a sudden just this partnership had just crumbled
47:40
Speaker 2: and disappeared. And on the other hand, I mean, feeling
47:45
Speaker 2: like you're not living like my dad, and feeling like
47:49
Speaker 2: you're not living who you really are, and like keeping
47:54
Speaker 2: a massive secret that you feel like identifies you to
48:01
Speaker 2: a degree, Like how impossible a situation is that? Because
48:06
Speaker 2: I mean I had neither me nor any of my
48:09
Speaker 2: brothers or my sister had any clue ever ever thought
48:14
Speaker 2: my dad was gay. I mean, none of us. That
48:16
Speaker 2: was never even a thought that went through our heads.
48:18
Speaker 2: So it was a pretty big shock to all of
48:24
Speaker 2: us when that happened. And you know, there's been there's
48:30
Speaker 2: been good things, like really forcing me to build a
48:36
Speaker 2: relationship with my dad separate than the one to my mom.
48:40
Speaker 2: But again, like there's sad things, you know, like birthdays
48:44
Speaker 2: and holidays where you know it's like, oh, oh we
48:48
Speaker 2: had mom at the last one, kids dad's turn or
48:50
Speaker 2: you know my mom. You know, I just it's it's
48:54
Speaker 2: more difficult.
48:55
Speaker 1: It's definitely more difficult. Yeah, I know, having been through
49:00
Speaker 1: a divorce and having kids and now having to share them,
49:03
Speaker 1: and it's so much more of a burden on them,
49:07
Speaker 1: I think emotionally than it is even on me or
49:11
Speaker 1: their dad, because you know, we've moved on in our life,
49:15
Speaker 1: but your childhood, the core of who you are. When
49:19
Speaker 1: that gets shaken and turned upside down, you have to
49:23
Speaker 1: sort of forge a new way. And you know, in
49:26
Speaker 1: my case, I'm just so grateful that my daughters have
49:28
Speaker 1: one another. So when they're struggling or being challenged with
49:34
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and I'm sure you rely on
49:36
Speaker 1: your brothers and sisters a lot for that too.
49:39
Speaker 2: I mean, we definitely. I feel like I was always
49:42
Speaker 2: pretty close with a lot of my siblings. I mean
49:45
Speaker 2: I feel like we were all pretty close always. But
49:47
Speaker 2: it's definitely brought us in many ways closer. Just being like, hey,
49:53
Speaker 2: did you feel this way? Or like I thought this,
49:56
Speaker 2: or like am I crazy? Or yeah, I mean how
50:00
Speaker 2: has helped us become closer as well.
50:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's one of the good things that's come
50:07
Speaker 1: from it, for sure. Way to see the positive, Yeah
50:11
Speaker 1: like that.
50:12
Speaker 2: I mean I'm not always like super positive. Sometimes I'm like,
50:16
Speaker 2: I hate this. I wish they'd never gotten divorced. I
50:18
Speaker 2: mean I don't want them to be unhappy. I would
50:20
Speaker 2: never want either of them to be unhappy. I of
50:22
Speaker 2: course I always want them to be happy, But selfishly,
50:24
Speaker 2: there's a part of me that's like, this would just
50:27
Speaker 2: be easier if you had never gotten divorced. Yeah, it
50:32
Speaker 2: would have been easier for me. It wouldn't have been
50:34
Speaker 2: easier for them.
50:35
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that sometimes we forget that how
50:41
Speaker 1: difficult it is on the kids divorce, But.
50:45
Speaker 2: I mean it is, It's happened, and now you know
50:49
Speaker 2: what to move forward as best we can figure out.
50:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, gratitude, forgiveness, hope, all those things are so important.
50:59
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, Elizabeth Smart, what was your
51:03
Speaker 1: last I Choose me moment?
51:06
Speaker 2: Probably this morning when I should have probably done the dishes,
51:11
Speaker 2: but I decided to work out instead. And the dishes
51:14
Speaker 2: are still upstairs in the sink.
51:15
Speaker 1: Now they can wait.
51:19
Speaker 2: That's what I told myself.
51:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good, that's just a simple, like everyday way stuff.
51:26
Speaker 1: That is, it's not the end of the world that
51:27
Speaker 1: the dishes aren't done. What's more important is your health
51:30
Speaker 1: and your sanity.
51:31
Speaker 2: Yes, my sanity. I would focus on that.
51:34
Speaker 1: Yes, okay. Well, Elizabeth's book Detours Hope and Growth after
51:39
Speaker 1: Life's Hardest Turns is available now. You guys, thank you
51:43
Speaker 1: so much for joining me, Elizabeth, your story, your perseverance
51:48
Speaker 1: is going to help so many people.
51:50
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jenny. It was such a pleasure coming on
51:53
Speaker 2: and chatting with you. Thank you.
51:54
Speaker 1: I loved it. It's really nice to meet you, and
51:57
Speaker 1: you are an inspiration.
51:58
Speaker 2: It's very nice to meet you.
52:00
Speaker 1: To thank you