Latest / Beyond The Trailhead / Hest Founder and CEO Aaron Ambush | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 38
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome back to another incredible episode of Beyond the Trailhead. We've got a great guest with us this week, ⁓ Aaron Mbuski with Hest Outdoors. Aaron, thanks so much for being on this week. I really appreciate it. speaker-1: Yeah, thanks very excited to be here. speaker-0: Awesome. Well, I I got to try out some of your mattresses. And ⁓ for some of the listeners out there, ⁓ they've probably been in REI and seen your products. And ⁓ you have a really comfortable chair ⁓ that I've seen as well. ⁓ you have a bunch of different products, but ⁓ wanted to have you on because ⁓ you guys began ⁓ you were telling me in 2019 and I wanted to talk about how you began, how you started the company, what sparked the idea behind it. ⁓ and then we'll kind of roll into how you got into ⁓ like brick and mortars like REI and and the difference between that versus ⁓ say D to C. So I guess Aaron, without further ado, go ahead and ⁓ go ahead and just let us know a little bit about Hest than yourself. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ Hest was born out of a pain point of mine. I drive to my campsite a lot and in particular back in twenty nineteen I was getting ready for a river trip and kind of dreading going home to my closet and going through all the air mattresses and determining which ones had holes and how I was gonna pump ⁓ up on the river and just not looking forward to sleeping poorly for the the nights we were gonna be out and I've always been in product design pretty long career in the outdoor industry. And with product design, you start with research and prototypes. And when I researched what we experience in our home beds, it's pressure point relief, so you have blood flow, ⁓ body alignment, so you're not stiff and sore. And then you actually have temperature regulation, like your bed breathes that allows you to go through different temperatures in the night and ⁓ current technology or at the time in outdoors ⁓ was air, which is a wonderful solution for compact, lightweight mattresses that you hike into the wilderness with. ⁓ but if you're driving or floating to your campsite, you can solve that problem a little bit differently with the product. And so just started leaning into different ways you could do that at the same time. Ben the box industry was taking off. ⁓ highly compressed engineered polyfoams, delivered door-door step in a small box. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and just literally started ordering foam, testing foam, ⁓ looking at different ways ⁓ we could solve this. And ⁓ Billy got excited about something for me. And then as I kind of shared it with other friends and ⁓ started to think about it more, it just felt like it could become something that we could build a business around. speaker-0: Okay. And so w I know you had said you've been in the industry for a long time. So what other things did you do in the industry before this? speaker-1: ⁓ depends how far back you want to go. ⁓ I mean my career started in Jackson Hall. ⁓ I was working at Pearl Street Bagels ⁓ out of college, being a ski bomb and wanted to get into product design. Lifelink is located in Jackson Hole. ⁓ their kind of famous product was the Crokey. but they also had backcountry products they were building at the time. ⁓ a tour for one of the customers that was coming in and an engineer there ⁓ went and toured their facility in Jackson back in the mid nineties. ⁓ pretty awesome. ⁓ got to know them really well. They eventually hired me and instead of going back to grad school I just kind of did grad school there to learn about product design. They CAD was coming out ⁓ and we just were building prototypes and building ⁓ machines that would build production products and learned a ton, got in started going to the outdoor retailer and met the group at K two skis ⁓ at one of the trade shows, interviewed for a job there and in nineteen ninety eight I moved to Seattle to be a ski engineer, ⁓ back when skis were sixty five millimeters underfoot. and was there for eighteen years, ⁓ overseeing skis, ski boots, ski poles, snowboards and just really learning the whole product realization process. So kind of s started as an engineer, ⁓ and then evolved into knowing a lot more about product and yeah, running an organization. speaker-0: Okay. Yeah. So you know quite you know quite a bit about designing something. So that gives you a good background. Cause I think a lot of people will, you know, they'll create a product out of necessity, but they might not have the background that you have. So how has that helped you versus someone who say has no experience? speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's been a big advantage. ⁓ and that I do have a lot of experience and know how. I mean, sure you you see the stories of young on entrepreneurs that come out of college or quit college to build the next big company. But in my case, I think it was a great advantage that I had spent as much time as I had ⁓ developing products. whole product realization process is quite complex and ⁓ you get into supply chain, you get into all of the logistics that it takes to take an idea and deliver it to a customer. ⁓ I feel like that was pretty awesome that I had those years of experience that I could apply it to to my startup as we created Hust from scratch. speaker-0: Okay. And I guess with with HEST, you started it in twenty nineteen. So was the idea a long time coming before twenty nineteen or was twenty nineteen when you launched the product? speaker-1: ⁓ I had the idea in 2016. I guess that was when I was getting ready for the river trip. talked to a bunch of friends. I had this idea. I'm gonna start a company from scratch. ⁓ people that had started companies of their own and pretty consistent feedback that it takes longer, costs more money, so get a day job. ⁓ so Got a day job at a product design consultancy in Seattle. A good friend owns it. We worked together at K two years and years ago. and so joined them doing product design for other brands, but also was a pretty remarkable opportunity for me to then build Hest ⁓ and kind of go through the steps of finalizing our first mattress and first design that we eventually launched in 2019. speaker-0: Okay. And how many product revisions do you think you went through for, you know, like what was the first initial product? Was it just the mattress and then you kind of spread out from there or? speaker-1: Yeah, we ⁓ we launched with the Hess sleep system. It's kind of the the ultimate ⁓ most comfortable way that you can sleep outside. It's also pretty bulky. ⁓ but if you're willing to ⁓ carry that mattress and buy that mattress, it is definitely the most comfortable. And so it that product, ⁓ it uses our engineered foam on the top. We use ⁓ you know. Technical fabrics that you could find in outdoor apparel to surround the foam and protect the foam. Also allow your body to conform to the foam. And then we put that on top of an inflatable stand-up paddle board. ⁓ so that really creates this durable, waterproof, stable platform. It really recreates what we experience in our home bed, ⁓ usually. ⁓ and then it deflates on the bottom, rolls up, and really launch that. intentionally with the goal of really going after this problem. I mean, a lot of people we were talking to, I mean, a lot of people leave camping because they can't sleep or they only spend a few nights out because the the sleep deprivation adds up. ⁓ so we just really wanted to go for the most or the best solution that we could come up with that we thought people would still be willing to buy ⁓ and be very intentional about that. from a brand from a product solution and then see what the customer reacted to. ⁓ I mean people talk about MVP ⁓ minimum viable product. This sleep system was that we built 75 of them, ⁓ launched them direct to consumer just to see how the customer reacted. ⁓ I'm I have a lot of strong opinions about the product design process, but like focus groups for instance. Yeah. It's great input. But I believe until somebody pulls out their credit card and buys a product, you really don't know how that product's going to do. And so really wanted to just test this sleep system and see how it reacted. And ⁓ it it definitely landed and solved a problem for for enough customers that we kept leaning into that. speaker-0: Yeah. So it's funny you said something about a focus group because I had just heard something about a focus group for a movie, for example, that everybody had said certain things and then the director had said, No, I'm just still gonna do whatever I think is right. So I guess my question just leading into that would be like what what's the good and the bad about a focus group group? Or do you think you even really need to to do those? speaker-1: at the loading question, ⁓ especially for somebody who's been in product design. I mean, there's definitely value. You you learn about your customer, you learn kind of what their thought process is, what their pain points are. ⁓ but I think the challenge with a focus group is a lot of times people don't really know what they want because they just haven't seen that product or experienced that. So it's hard to take them somewhere that they've never been. Like I always talk of ⁓ vision versus envisioning product. Like it's hard to envision what that product will be. And so ⁓ it's hard to take a customer there. ⁓ used to have a ski athlete, incredible athlete. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And you'd always get into these conversations like, How could we improve your skis? How could we make this better? And he's like, No, I just like my skis. I don't want anything different about them. ⁓ so versus some athletes could envision what a product improvement could do to their life and their ⁓ activity. So yeah, I think that's the challenge is just ⁓ until somebody has really experienced a new product or an innovation. Hard for them to have an opinion. But you can certainly learn more about the customer, where their heads are at, what you know, how price affects them, what what are pain points. So you have to be pretty tactical with a focus group to get value out of it without just bogging yourself down and convincing yourself you shouldn't innovate. speaker-0: Yeah. At what point do you think someone should say, okay, I've done enough focus groups or I've gotten enough input. I just need to launch my product. Is there ever a point 'cause I know there's there's there's people out there, I see them all the time, where they're still like waiting, they're like perfectionists and it's like it's better done than perfect, you know, like at what point would you get say to get there? speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ think there's a lot of ways to approach that. ⁓ I mean, I I think prototyping with physical consumer products is like the most powerful thing you can do. ⁓ and getting an idea out of your head and into a physical prototype can be a cardboard duct tape prototype, all the way to like really nice 3D printed sample from a factory sort of thing. But Yeah, I think there's like the different gates that you go through. You show your friends, you show people that you trust, ⁓ you show somebody that doesn't know you that can have an opinion. But I still believe until they pull out their credit card, you really don't know ⁓ how this product's going to do. So yeah, I think you need at some point you just have to go to market and learn and know that You're gonna learn something. No product is perfect. ⁓ and be willing to take that feedback. And usually it's constructive and can inform future products. ⁓ I mean, to quickly back up. I mean, that was one of the other reasons I created Hust was that I in product design back in the day, ⁓ I mean, you would a product realization process would look like you have a pain point or you determine something, a white space in the market, or you determine, you know, you're s you have some input that determines you should develop this product. ⁓ then you go down the process of evaluating technologies, prototyping, ⁓ you know, exploration that would come, you know, land at a new product. Then you show a focus group, ⁓ maybe, or you get focus group input. At the beginning of that, ⁓ back in the day you didn't have direct consumers. So you would show your reps ⁓ and ask them for feedback. Usually they might they like the color, they don't like the color, they like the price point, they don't like the price point. ⁓ if that passed muster, you would then go to a trade show, show it to dealers, ⁓ convince try and convince them that this is a product that's going to sell and do a great ⁓ new service to the customer or solve a problem. And then a year later, you would usually deliver that product in the store. And then there's a shop employee standing in front of a customer who actually has a credit card and is going to decide if they're going to buy. And that's like a at least a two year cycle that we were living as product designers. Yeah. And the feedback that you got from the customer or shop employee was usually the worst. So you really never had this direct feedback loop that could design better products. And as e-commerce came along and everything got so democratized in this day and age, like the idea that you can go from a prototype to something that you can build and then deliver to a customer pretty democratized and learn from that customer, I think is just one of the most brilliant things for product design. And ultimately You learn quickly and you develop better products. And that's what I was so intrigued with with Hess dot com and why we launched originally as an e commerce brand. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I think that's such good input because people don't realize the process ⁓ back then compared to now, you it would take you is how long to get actual consumer feedback versus now it's it's shaved so much time off and allowed you to to really kind of come out with your product and then make revisions a lot quicker and stuff like that. With with your ⁓ mattresses and stuff like that, what were some pain points that you think were there? 'Cause You know, some people might think, ⁓ it's just another mattress, right? Like when a new inflatable pad comes out, people are like shouting it from the rooftop. And until you lay down on it, you don't really realize it. And the more I try different mattresses and stuff and understand that ⁓ that world, the more I realize, ⁓ the way that I sleep, I need a certain type of mattress. I might need baffles differently of an inflatable versus ⁓ with a foam mattress, I might need a different type of foam or whatever. You know, 'cause I have bad back issues and stuff like that. So did you have any hurdles with with people when you're like, Hey, this is an amazing mattress. You have to sleep on this to believe it. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean, we have hurdles to this day. ⁓ we we are kind of a unique solution that is not what people expect. ⁓ so to this day, and I mean, getting our product in front of customers is by far the most impactful when people do have a chance to interact with it, lay down on it. ⁓ they're kind of blown away. Like a lot of customers say it's more comfortable than their home mattress. ⁓ and it's Yet, you know, yet it's portable enough that you can roll it up. If you're car camping, if you're overlanding, if you're sleeping in a rooftop tent, ⁓ like it's a solution that is worth the extra bulk to have a more comfortable sleep. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ for sure. Like, ⁓ so I guess that could help us go into the next portion of it is ⁓ 'cause I know you have your online, but you're also ⁓ in REI. And so that gives people a great chance to get their hands on it. And I'm sure you're in in other stores, but I mean REI ⁓ in my mind, unless you have otherwise, is probably one of the bigger places that you're in 'cause it's nationwide. So does that help? I'm sure it does, but does that help with sales and people being able to get their hands on it? Do you even push people to instead of ordering on your site, say, hey, why don't you go to REI, try it, or go to this place and try it and then order it. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, we started as an e-commerce brand. I mean, back in 2019, that was gonna like change the world. The margins are great. It's cheap ⁓ customer acquisition, all these things. But it was pretty quickly after we launched, it was January of twenty twenty that REI emailed us and said, Hey, we're curious to learn more about your mattress. Would you be willing to come present to us? And you just Don't say no at REI. I mean, obviously there's lots of benefits of being in a retailer like that. And I would say one of the big benefits is the store footprint and being able to get our product in front of more customers as a small startup. We knew that that was really important. ⁓ so yeah, we ⁓ shipped our first palette of sleep systems to them March of 2020. The world shut down for the pandemic. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ I had like four thousand dollars in the checking account. ⁓ convinced a friend who has a factory in Asia to build more sleep systems because we had a feeling that REI was going to do well with them. ⁓ fortunately the world did come back and everyone went camping. So ⁓ it was crazy tailwind for us and REI bought I mean they're at the time REI was buying anything they could to help people spend more time outside. ⁓ And it was kind of a nice onboard for us that we were able to ship them more product, ⁓ and build a strong relationship to this day. speaker-0: Yeah. So that initial email from REI to the that first order, what was that process like for anybody who's listening who's, you know, has a product or brand themselves and they're like, because I think your story is unique in that they reached out to you. A lot of times people are waiting at a trade show or they're emailing, trying to get in contact. It's that whole like it's who you know kind of an industry. ⁓ kind of thing. But how how was that for you? speaker-1: ⁓ I mean I do feel very fortunate that they took interest in us. ⁓ and I think but I would also say there was intention on from the product design to the early PR that we got to the early branding that we did. Like we really we wanted to be recognized and w wanted to be in a position where they would be intrigued or another retailer would be intrigued. ⁓ and yeah, I think it's kind of your classic ⁓ there are buyers within these retailers and they are doing the best that they can to determine what's a product they can buy that could sell well to their customer. And so usually there's a meeting of sorts where you share the product, share the price point, you share the margins, all things that would give them enough information to determine if this is something they could be successful with. ⁓ I think at the end of the day, like if it's a product that a retailer can be successful with, that's a win win for everyone. And that yeah, the buyer ⁓ is going to be excited about that. ⁓ you're gonna be excited as a brand. And so and yeah, it's hard to get those first conversations. I think it's one of those things that when we used to have trade shows, it was a lot or When we used to have more consistent trade shows, I would say, where ⁓ a new brand could go and have a booth and all of the retailers ⁓ were walking around and it it was a nice casual check touch point that a buyer could learn more about a brand and ⁓ I think nowadays it is a little harder, I think, the to to pierce through and get an email or get an introduction. Or get a first conversation. Yeah. It's just harder. ⁓ it's not at I mean, I think as as soon as you can get to the human level of like interacting with somebody, yeah, that's when you're at least gonna determine if there is interest or not. ⁓ and I do think this day and age it is it is harder to get to that, but I know outdoor retailer does still exist. ⁓ switchback, I think like you mentioned, there's there's other trade shows that are popping up. ⁓ And the success of those trade shows in my mind is retailers attending. ⁓ that's that's why a brand would want to go. That's why a new brand would want to go. And so if we can continue to find those environments where a brand can go because retailers are going to be there, that's a great way to ⁓ for a new brand to get in front of retailers. speaker-0: Yeah. Do you think that ⁓ and I and I've mentioned this before on this show that a lot of times just like you were just mentioning, like getting to that human level. I mean, meeting somebody and then them getting to know you, like you'll hear on Shark Tank all the time, they'll be like, I love your product, but I don't want to work with someone like you because you're just gonna be a thorn in my side, you know? So when I you know, you go to the trade shows, you meet people. ⁓ not saying that you're have to be the most amazing person in the world. If you have a great product, people are still gonna love it. But ⁓ you know, what percentage do you think it is product versus personality sometimes that weighs into that factor? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I think everything in business is human. ⁓ from supplier relationships to your team members, to your retailer relationships. ⁓ But I think at the end of the day, the r the retailer needs to be confident that they can be successful. ⁓ and that you're going to stand behind your product, that your product is going to sell, that you understand the customer. ⁓ so I think there's just a lot of layers to that. And yes, if you can have a conversation, you can at least that's a that's that's a better first filter than a cold email. of understanding is this person. Somebody who's reasonable has ⁓ you know, is this somebody that has probably thought through a lot of the pitfalls and or risks and we could work together and learn together. So yeah, I think it's always gonna come back to that human interaction is the most powerful. ⁓ but at the end of the day, the retailer needs to be able to be successful with your brand, with your products and that. Long term or short term is what will drive the success for everyone. Yeah. speaker-0: That's good. So I I guess going into talking about success a little bit then, what what does it look like for Hess success for you guys in the future? ⁓ you know, moving forward? speaker-1: Yeah, I think ⁓ obviously the sleep system was kind of this novel approach to sleeping better outside. ⁓ and then I mean, honestly, I just got I get a lot of satisfaction out of designing products that help people enjoy the outdoors more. I kind of got that feeling first at K two with designing skis that allow people to ski the mountain and really enjoy the benefits of being outside. And yeah. ⁓ I think since starting Hest, we've really leaned into that opportunity and I get a ton of satisfaction out of that. So ⁓ looking at the pain points and one being sleeping poorly outside, ⁓ I think it's just something that we have been really thankful that we've been able to build a business around that. And you know, we just finished our hestival last weekend and it is really This desire to create an experience that embodies who we are as a brand. We we want the outdoors to be accessible. ⁓ and yes, I think there's wonderful benefits to backpacking into the wilderness, but the accessibility of car camping, of driving to your campsite, Hestable, for instance, we rent out an orchard, drive to your campsite, it's a very family friendly. ⁓ you're getting kids outside, hopefully off screens. you're just Offering this benefit that can be found all over the country. We have customers ⁓ from Florida to Maine to California to Washington, and ⁓ the accessibility of car camping of and the access to it through better products ⁓ is something that we've just really leaned into and we think it's you know, we're just kind of getting started. We we started with sleep because we feel like that's a big opportunity and brings better access ⁓ to our customers. But like the chair right now, some people joke that you a lot of people fall asleep in their chair, yes. But I think there's also like just a comfort angle and just our desire to design better products that people sit longer outside and are more comfortable and and you know choose that, be it in their backyard or at a campsite, ⁓ at some national park. Like All those things to us. ⁓ yeah, I think the outdoor industry can get targeted on each other, but I think the target is technology and the distraction that is created for all of our customers and how it easy it is to go buy a TV at Costco and have all this entertainment fed at you versus ⁓ buying technical gear that helps you enjoy the outdoors and spend more time outside. Like I think the health and wellness benefits of what we should all be working towards as an industry ⁓ are are significant enough that I think it's a worthwhile pursuit that brings me a lot of satisfaction. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's good. That's a good point. Like you go to the Costco, buy a seventy inch T V for three hundred and fifty dollars and it just makes you just sit there for days on end. I when I when I was ⁓ first got into the outdoors for my with my family, we did, you know, car camping and then they still love the car camping side of it and everything else. ⁓ my oldest daughter, she loves going out. Going into the backcountry now a lot more and everything. But I think everybody has that stage of where they're comfortable at. You know, like some people are like, ⁓ they love car. Like for me, I don't mind overlanding, but still away from everybody. I don't like the whole you go to a place where there's 800 cars and RVs around and stuff like that. It still has to be kind of remote. But my kids, they love meeting new kids at the campsites. Mm. We meet like they love l meeting the people that are camping beside us and then they end up playing in the lake and everything else. So like you said, I would rather my kids be out there in the water playing around and twisting ankle than sit on the the couch and get hemorrhoids or whatever from just sitting there watching T V all day. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean you can read all the reports, right? There's there's way more danger on your phone than there is crawling around in the creek or yeah, you know, playing in the water. So yeah, I mean you certainly mentally ⁓ that can turn into physical. ⁓ there's way more danger by giving a teenager a phone than giving them something to go outside and play with. In my opinion. speaker-0: Yeah. No, I think it's not even your opinion. I think it's definitely a fact that like I I watched those ⁓ those videos where it shows high school back in you know, the nineties before everybody had cell phones, you know, in the early two thousands and then high school now and kids are just even my daughter says at lunchtime everybody's just on their phones because it's the only time they're allowed to have their phone. And then with us we would all be talking and every and and playing around, walking out to lunch. talking and goofing around the hallways, but everybody's just instantly on their device. And then depression and everything else. And when you go outside, you have that connect with nature and the fresh air, the sun, just so many good, good points. I love that companies are really trying to help not just the bottom line, but you really have like yours was created to help people get ⁓ outdoors and better their life. So ⁓ really thank you. So I guess I wanna ask two more questions. One is, and I never got this from you, I kinda got a little bit of it earlier, but do you have an oat crap moment when you were building your brand? ⁓ maybe recently, or, you know, that you were like, ⁓ man, if this happened, you know, it was crazy. speaker-1: ⁓ man, ⁓ I feel like that's every day. I mean, ⁓ if you want to have high highs and low lows every day, you can start your own company. ⁓ yeah, I I mean for me, it is risky to start some well, for anyone, it's risky to start something from scratch. I mean, there's just so many challenges with just The idea of starting a small business and then you layer in tariffs, ⁓ inflation, consumer sentiment. ⁓ it's just really hard to start a business. and for me, it's always been ⁓ de-risking the best I can through better products and ⁓ really leaning into that. and yeah, I don't think there was ever one moment. ⁓ but I do I do think it's worth reflecting that I come I call myself a naive optimist that ⁓ it works really well in product design. because you always think there can be a better way of solving a problem. ⁓ but I was just super naive on the cash side and the capitalizing side of a startup. And ⁓ you can listen to podcasts and it's just very real. Like we're We're out there building products before we sell them. And factories are not going to do that for free. And so ⁓ I think that has been the ⁓ shoot moments for me of like, hey, we have this great new product. REI just ordered a bunch of them. How the hell do we pay for them? ⁓ like I think that that has always been the surprise and the like real pain point for a small business. ⁓ you know. Growing responsibly is kind of a a goal that and staying profitable is but both those things are really hard. ⁓ you you get excited, you get a new order, you say yeah. Of course you're gonna say yes. Yeah. Then you have to figure out how you're gonna pay for it. So I think those are the those are the the challenges. ⁓ but yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's good. I mean I I tell people all the time I I'm never gonna create my own product. I say that now, but I really I'm like I I've I'm like I'm not gonna do anything like that because I don't know I don't have that risk. I couldn't take that risk and I I I just don't think I could I could stomach the stress. have you I Two more actually one more qu this was a quick one. It's just like maybe one of the weirdest places that you've seen your product since you've launched, you know, like maybe you've seen it in a unique location or someone's using it in a way that, you know, as a product designer, you never thought someone would be using your product. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean we had one guy fly from South Africa to Seattle and used our sleep system as their bed. So there wasn't really room in the plane. ⁓ but they would pull it out and sleep next to the plane. So I thought was pretty cool. ⁓ I mean, honestly, I'm still we're just such a young company that yeah. I mean, I saw our pro travel pillow in the airport the other day and I was taking pictures of it and sending it to the team. Like we're we're still a tiny mighty brand that gets excited when we when we see our product. ⁓ yeah. I mean, even to this day, we have a ha a van that has Hest logos on the side and I'll go to the gas station and somebody comes up to me and says that they love their Hest product and ⁓ they're like, You you must work for the company. It's like, yeah, ⁓ I I drive the van. Yeah, you're right. and like those are still incredibly rewarding ones in just you starting with saying that you've used our product, like that we're still so young, ⁓ in my opinion, that ⁓ anytime I see the product or hear somebody enjoying the product or sleeping better, yeah. It's really meaningful for me. speaker-0: Yeah. No, it's great. I I know that fulfilling sensation that you get when you see 'cause from my wedding photography side of things, when I take pictures of somebody's wedding and I end up we end up becoming friends and I go over to their house and it's blown up on the wall. I'm like, ⁓ this is awesome. They actually used it instead of just keeping it on their computer and I see it and I know it's gonna be there for, you know, ten years plus, you know, or you're in the airport and you see it. I that fulfillment of, hey, it's it's working and you I'm sure you want to walk up to them and be like, hey, that's my thing. Like this is so cool. But then you don't want to be like they think you're full of yourself, like, hey, I created this thing. speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ yeah. But super satisfying to see. Yeah. speaker-0: That's great. ⁓ and last question before I get into our little rapid fire round of just getting to know you a little bit is ⁓ what ⁓ what advice would you have for somebody who's on the trailhead of their own business? One quick piece of advice as they're starting their company. speaker-1: Yeah, I I think try it. ⁓ I mean it like I said, there's th so many things have been democratized versus what it was for me. It's it's easy to prototype with 3D printing and ⁓ the ability to go buy a sewing machine. it's easy to set up a website and sell product. ⁓ I mean sourcing products not easy, but you can certainly get to a a a viable product that you can try. ⁓ I think just like starting small and learning. ⁓ because you're gonna fail. Like that's the other thing with all of this is ⁓ products will fail, you'll make bad decisions. ⁓ but it's really the learnings from that that then inform your future success. And so I I just think try it. ⁓ whatever that means, if it builds to them and give ⁓ to your friends and see if they like ⁓ or set up a website and start selling. ⁓ it's so much more accessible to do that than it ever was. And ⁓ the things you can learn about yourself, about your product, ⁓ is is very valuable and definitely worth it. speaker-0: That's cool. Well, thank you, Aaron. ⁓ before I go into these are just like a few quick questions or literally one-word answers, just kind of give us a little bit of get to know you ⁓ yourself. ⁓ if people are looking for Hess, ⁓ you know, where can we find you? I thought we already said, but where can they find you online and on your socials? speaker-1: ⁓ our website is Hess dot com. our social is Hest Outdoors and we're found in retailers like REI, Shields, Backcountry. ⁓ and definitely reach out. Info at Hess dot com might come to me, ⁓ but it definitely comes to somebody in our small team and it will be one one step away from me. So speaker-0: Awesome. Okay. Well, Aaron, I'm gonna just ask you a few quick questions to get to know you and your background. ⁓ so I guess without further ado, the my favorite question is favorite national park. speaker-1: ⁓ Grand Teton. speaker-0: Grand Teton. Okay, ⁓ solo hike or crew mission? speaker-1: Crew mission. speaker-0: Yeah. I I'm I'm solo, but just with like one other person versus I don't think I could do solo. ⁓ this one I love is the worst worst trail snack you've ever tried. speaker-1: ⁓ everything usually tastes better outside. but I think the original power bar, if anyone ever tried those, they were pretty bad, especially if it was the least bit cold. speaker-0: Yeah. And then what's your favorite go to trail snack? speaker-1: I mean a good handful of GORP with ⁓ and M's is hard to be. Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ all right. Tent, hammock, or cowboy camping. speaker-1: ⁓ a tent. I mean my tent or car camping cality. speaker-0: Yeah. So ⁓ what's one app that you can't live without for work? speaker-1: ⁓ the shop if I ⁓ speaker-0: Shopify. ⁓ next is the biggest splurge you've ever made for your business. speaker-1: I mean we bought a sprinter van, they go to events and ⁓ drag our products around and show ⁓ So that was a big splurge. speaker-0: ⁓ Hestival you were talking about earlier, I saw some pictures online and some ⁓ video clips and stuff. That looked that looked awesome. So that van probably helped out a lot then. speaker-1: Yes. No. It was special and we devoted a lot to public lands and awareness of protecting our public lands and it turned into a really special weekend for all of us. speaker-0: That's cool. So you have it planned already for next year? speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. All right. And favorite way to unplug. speaker-1: I'm excited. ⁓ I'm most passionate about biking. I I feel like it's my mental massage as well as my physical ⁓ benefits. So any form of biking, mountain biking, gravel, road, ⁓ that's my way to disconnect. And I can't be looking at my phone while I'm biking. speaker-0: Do you still ski as well? speaker-1: I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still a very passionate skier ⁓ to this day. ⁓ it's just a little bit of a drive and not as accessible. ⁓ yeah and easy to disconnect. speaker-0: Yeah. right. And then ⁓ last question is if you could collab ⁓ with any brand, who would it be? speaker-1: boy, I have a long list. ⁓ Yeah. I think it'd be cool to do a pillowcase with like yeah. You're gonna have to edit this one 'cause I didn't think of th I don't know if this was on the list. Well it'll be a good couple. speaker-0: I threw under the bus with this one. I th I threw you under the bus. Now you gotta fix speaker-1: With that. Well I could I could say some brands like ⁓ I would love to do like a pillowcase with Varori. ⁓ so maybe I'll leave it there. Okay. I'd love to do a pillowcase with Varori. speaker-0: Okay, perfect. Cool. Well, awesome. Aaron, thank you so much for being on. ⁓ I mean, everybody who's listening, I'm sure they learned a ton. I learned a ton just about the the design portion of it and your background and stuff like that. So everybody who thank you much so much for listening and ⁓ we look forward to the next episode. And Aaron, thank you again. ⁓ I'll maybe I'll see you at Hestival ⁓ next year. speaker-1: Thanks Craig. ⁓ thanks, appreciate it.