Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Rob Kollin on Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, and Developing Future Public Health Leaders

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Rob Kollin on Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, and Developing Future Public Health Leaders · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

0:02
This is where health insurance leadership comes together.
0:05
Becker's fourth annual spring payer issues roundtable brings
0:09
together over 400 payer and health plan executives
0:12
and more than 100 speakers to Chicago April.
0:16
This year's event includes keynote conversations with the
0:19
industry's top leaders and former president George w
0:23
Bush. For the full agenda and event details,
0:25
visit beckershospitalreview.com
0:28
and click on the events tab in the
0:29
upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you
0:31
here in Chicago.
0:34
This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
0:37
Podcast.
0:38
I'm thrilled today to be joined by a
0:40
brilliant professor. We're joined today by professor Robert
0:43
Collin. And doctor Collin, Robert Collin,
0:46
teaches leadership. He teaches in the master's of
0:49
public health program. He'll he'll tell us more.
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We're gonna talk about trends, about leadership, about
0:54
his watching.
0:55
Robert, can you take a moment and introduce
0:57
yourself and tell us a bit about you
0:59
doing what you do? Awesome. Well, Scott, thanks
1:01
for having me. Super thrilled
1:03
to be here, and thanks for the the
1:05
kind compliment. So from an in introduction and
1:08
a little bit about what I do, you
1:09
know,
1:10
following my LinkedIn profile, which I'm active on
1:12
LinkedIn
1:13
and love following all that Becker's is producing
1:16
there.
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I'm a husband, father, which are the two
1:19
most important things,
1:20
an educationalist,
1:21
which is code for being a lecturer here
1:24
at Kent State's College of Public Health,
1:26
and a cycling adventure advocate.
1:30
So
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I've had about two decades of industry experience
1:35
on outside of
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higher education.
1:37
So I spent about seven and a half
1:40
years in health insurance,
1:41
working for a regional payer,
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and nearly fifteen years in telecommunications.
1:47
So my goal really is to bring the
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professional
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real world
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into the classroom
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along with creating some impactful
1:57
educational experiences.
1:59
Scott, as you suggested, I am currently a
2:02
lecturer at Kent State University's,
2:06
College of Public Health.
2:07
And I'll take a moment just to kinda
2:09
share our mission along with,
2:12
some of my educational background.
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I support our mission here at Kent State's
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College of Public Health
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to advance public health by preparing leaders, and
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I'm gonna underline that word,
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scientists and practitioners
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to collaborate with community partners
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in conducting
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impactful research
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and
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practice to solve public health challenges.
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Again, my focus is focusing on teaching leadership
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courses
2:39
to the next generation
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of leaders. And I take out the word
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public health leaders,
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because we have students going in a variety
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of,
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different
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industries and fields.
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In addition to my professional work experience,
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my own educational
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journey
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has definitely guided my role as a lecturer.
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I started my undergrad,
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degree at Tiffin University in,
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Tiffin, Ohio in the
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western part of the state, and I was
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a student athlete there, running,
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collegiate cross country for a year.
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I completed my bachelor's degree in business at
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Baldwin Wallace University. I actually finished up there
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when it was Baldwin Wallace College,
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and I have two masters from Weatherhead School
3:28
of Management
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at Case Western Reserve in Cleveland, Ohio.
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My first
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master's in change management.
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One of the constants, right, is change along
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with a master's in management science,
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focused on health care.
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And and so what an amazing background in
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career.
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Let's
3:47
talk about leadership for a second to start
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off with. There's so many things that you
3:52
do that I'd love to talk about, like
3:54
cycling, like family, and so much more. But
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let's let's start with leadership.
3:59
When you work with emerging leaders and talk
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with emerging leaders,
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what advice would you give to emerging leaders?
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You know, what advice? How do you how
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do you start with thinking about how you
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advise or think about mentoring,
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emerging leaders?
4:13
That's an awesome question, Scott. Thanks for asking.
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There's really three items of advice I'd like
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to share, and then actually,
4:21
from the nineties, pay something forward.
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So, you know, leadership definitely starts with paying
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attention, and I think we'll circle back to
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appreciative inquiry, you know, here a little bit
4:33
in our talk here. But paying attention not
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only to people
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and
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systems,
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but also the leader themselves as an emerging
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leader.
4:43
You know, titles
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matter far less than
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empathy,
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being curious.
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And I'm gonna use the word courage very
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specifically
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to ask
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better questions.
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You know, I'll emphasize that real leadership is
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less about control
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and more about creating conditions
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for others to do their best work is,
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I think, the first piece of advice.
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The second
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is
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kind of aligned to my own teaching philosophy
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where I'm trying to to do in the
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classroom
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is bring the real world into the classroom.
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So staying connected to the real world.
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It's important
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and great to, you know, be focused
5:25
and theory
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driven
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and clearly strategy matters.
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But all of those
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need to be connected, you know, with
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lived experiences. So whether
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in public health, in higher
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ed, or health insurance,
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leaders need to
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have an understanding of how policy and decisions
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impact and land on the humans that they're
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supporting, serving,
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or they're and using customers.
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What I think that
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unfolds as
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is
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meaningful listening. Right? Being able to listen to
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understand versus listening to respond,
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which is super hard in our very fast
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paced environment,
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engaging with communities.
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And
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as all great things happen through others,
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kind of respecting the experience of that frontline
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team.
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Oftentimes, the frontline team
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has the answers,
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and oftentimes, it's the
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role of the leader to be able to
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extract that and be able to turn that
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into something actionable.
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My third bullet point from advice,
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and this is I think I've learned from
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my own
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pinch point and failures
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is really encouraging
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them to embrace
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being
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uncomfortable. Right? The concept of being comfortable
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in uncomfortable situations.
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It's more of a
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signal or sign for growth
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versus a failure.
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And these either these areas of being uncomfortable
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can be during career pivots,
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uncertainty
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in leading and complex situations,
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or just when kind of your path detours,
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from, you know, where you're not planning to
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go from either a
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process or a career perspective.
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So these pinch points and this discomfort
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is an invitation, I think, to learn and
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grow.
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And, again,
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it's a it's a challenge to be
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comfortable being uncomfortable
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as,
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leaders.
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Yes. Let me ask you this question, Robert.
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When you see leaders getting things right, when
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you see leaders sort of operating,
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how do you think they should be operating?
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What does that look like?
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Yeah. I I think,
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obviously, their leadership style
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makes a big difference,
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to that.
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And I know my own leadership style has
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changed over time.
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We'll talk a little bit more about Serbian
7:55
leadership. I think at 50, I'm a more
7:57
Serbian leadership leader than when I was,
8:01
30,
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but really
8:03
trying to lead in an authentic manner based
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on that person. You know, from talking to
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students that have gone from undergrad
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maybe to a master's program and getting into
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a leadership role.
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What I hear from the student sharing is
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when they need to kind of fake it
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or act the way that they think they
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should act is when they have the missteps.
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And when they're able to lead in an
8:27
authentic
8:28
manner to themselves
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is where they thrive is what I've experienced,
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Scott.
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Thank you. So the more that they're operating
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like themselves,
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authenticity
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when when they're trying to put on ears
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or pretend to speak in a certain voice,
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act a certain way that doesn't feel legitimate
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or authentic to them, it's very hard to
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be a centered congruent leader and if people
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really relate to you over the long run.
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I'm gonna ask you a question, Robert. It
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used to be that we talked about, is
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it more important for a leader to be
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liked or respected?
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And if you went back twenty plus years
9:00
ago,
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universally, people would have often said, it's more
9:04
important to be respected than liked.
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He has that changed over the years. Is
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it now how do how do you think
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about that respected versus liked as a leader?
9:14
Any thoughts?
9:15
Yeah. That that's a great question. And if
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I had the answer to that, I think
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I would have an awesome book published,
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to to that point. I think it's a
9:24
an outstanding question. I'll actually kind of, you
9:26
know, jump a little bit
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to one of the trends that I'm watching
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to kind of help answer,
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that question.
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So one of the three items I wanna
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talk about from a trend perspective
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is emotional intelligence
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as a trend in leadership. And
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by no means is emotional intelligence a new
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topic.
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However, about a year ago, Forbes published a
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great article titled
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the importance of emotional intelligence and leadership.
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And
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the two quotes I prepped for our chitchat
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today
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is that leaders with a high
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emotional intelligence tend to prevail.
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It's not because they command attention,
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but because it's their ability to bring people
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together.
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And then the other
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quote is cultivating empathy for your employees
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and caring about them from their challenges
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motivates them, and that's key. So to help
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answer that question,
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I really do think it's a it's neither
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or both. I don't believe
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that
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you need to be a, like, a friendly
10:37
light leader to be effective,
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but one that has consistency
10:42
of how you deliver
10:43
your leadership.
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And,
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you know, respect, I think, you know, ties
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into that. So if if I could pick
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one as a leader,
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I think I would pick respect
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over,
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you know, being liked from my experience
11:00
at 50 now.
11:02
No. No. And and and I love that.
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When you see a leader you touched on
11:06
this a little bit.
11:07
When you see a leader operating not how
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they should be operating,
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you know, in business, in health care, in
11:14
any place, you know, I I don't wanna
11:15
stay out of politics, but but in business
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or health care, what what does that look
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like sometimes? Give us a sense of that.
11:22
Yeah. And and thanks for narrowing the scope.
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I think that makes for the the best
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discussion.
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I really do think about
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Serbian leadership.
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And for anyone that knows
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Northeast Ohio,
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Kent State is off of I 76 that
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runs east West across the state.
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And the where I'm going with this is
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Robert Greenleaf,
11:42
the father of Serbian leadership actually started their
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career
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with AT and T, the legacy AT and
11:49
T,
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just a few miles east of Kent in
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Gunnison,
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Ohio. So
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the opposite of Serbian
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leadership is more of that, I think, command
12:02
and control
12:03
leadership style.
12:05
And
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what always,
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I guess, entertains me is when a leader
12:11
tells you, oh, I'm the, you know, I'm
12:12
the fairest or I'm the the most liked
12:14
manager,
12:15
and then you kinda have this command and
12:17
control, there's a little pinch point there.
12:20
And
12:21
I'm gonna quote a rush song. And, Skye,
12:23
I think that might be of your musical
12:26
era. You know, it's easier to show someone
12:29
versus tell from a leadership perspective.
12:31
And when a leader
12:34
shows their
12:36
maybe less servient side is where you run
12:39
into that that miss mixed match. I hope
12:41
that,
12:43
resonates with you, Scott. Well, certainly,
12:46
Rush, you know, I'm a few years older
12:48
than you, so this is a little bit,
12:50
frightening for the audience. But Rush was my
12:52
one of my absolute favorite,
12:55
rock bands of all time and and remains
12:57
so.
12:59
And and I could actually
13:01
sing to you songs like he's today's Tom
13:03
Sawyer, but I will not do that. Or
13:05
or or songs like Salesman,
13:08
from from Rush, but absolutely love Rush. And
13:11
and I and I love the concept of
13:13
show when how you act, seeing how you
13:15
act, and so forth. I I love that.
13:18
Talk more about
13:20
leadership.
13:21
How important are is communication style for leaders?
13:26
Any thoughts there and things that you could,
13:28
share with us on that?
13:30
At least from you know, as
13:33
a a frontline customer service rep at the
13:36
phone company
13:37
years ago
13:39
to, you know, being a manager within,
13:42
a regional health insurance provider,
13:45
I think you almost have to ask
13:48
what someone's, you know, communication style is.
13:52
You know, two things come to mind. I
13:54
remember
13:55
at the regional insurance
13:57
provider, I had a very
13:59
embedded team with, you know, decades of experience,
14:03
and our team focused on HRAs,
14:06
FSAs, and HSAs.
14:08
And, you know, they knew that line bit
14:10
of business way better than I did.
14:13
And early on, I had a
14:16
I'll call it a pinch point with one
14:18
of my direct reports and, you know, they
14:21
had decades experience.
14:23
They
14:24
got great feedback from the clients,
14:27
but we always
14:28
seemed to clash.
14:30
And
14:31
maybe on week three or four,
14:33
call them into the office and say, hey.
14:35
You know, just wanna chat through some things.
14:37
And, you know, this is what I'm seeing.
14:39
It seems like, you know, we you and
14:41
I are not communicating, you know, well together.
14:44
And as it turned out, they were very
14:47
analytical
14:48
and really wanted all of the details and
14:50
all the details laid out.
14:52
And because I was maybe less experienced in
14:55
some of those details along with my own
14:57
communication
14:58
style,
14:59
we were struggling.
15:00
And after that conversation and probably took a
15:02
couple weeks to kinda smooth those things out,
15:05
we were able to to better align.
15:08
You know, I I there's a great book,
15:10
by Bill George
15:12
called True North. And within that book
15:15
might have been the executive from Starbucks,
15:18
maybe it was someone else, but they really
15:20
talked about
15:22
some leaders
15:24
are more charismatic and people kinda gravitate towards
15:27
them. Other folks, you know, have, different communication
15:30
styles,
15:31
but equally effective.
15:34
Putting my higher ed hat on or keeping
15:37
this higher ed hat on,
15:39
what I like what I tell students and,
15:42
you know, for any of the younger professionals
15:44
listening to this or leaders that are mentoring
15:48
younger professionals,
15:50
I think what we need to get to
15:53
is being
15:55
comfortable public speaking. And it doesn't mean that
15:58
you are the best public speaker or the
16:00
most charismatic,
16:02
but being able to be comfortable,
16:04
you know, one on one conversation,
16:07
or in front of the boardroom.
16:09
What I personally have found
16:11
while working at the telecommunications
16:13
company
16:14
is I am comfortable up to about the
16:16
audience size of 3,000 live in person.
16:19
And,
16:20
that
16:21
situation of being uncomfortable,
16:24
really strengthen my future ability
16:26
to speak in front of, large groups. So
16:29
I don't have
16:30
a specific communication style that works.
16:33
But
16:35
in working with teams, kinda going through that
16:38
storming and norming process,
16:40
oftentimes, we'll ask them ask them some discovery
16:43
questions
16:44
associated with communication, I think, is a is
16:46
a good solution for a path forward.
16:49
I I think what you just said is
16:50
so fascinating about speaking in front of different
16:52
size audiences.
16:55
I think that is such a fascinating discussion.
16:57
Because sometimes it could be more intimidating
16:59
to speak in front of audience of 10
17:02
than 1,000
17:03
because you're very intimate with that 10 then.
17:06
And they really can see and feel how
17:09
you're feeling in in what you're doing,
17:11
where sometimes you could be in front of
17:12
a thousand and not speak at people, but
17:15
sometimes it could be easier because you're not
17:16
as intimate with the audience. And I love
17:19
that concept. There's certain sizes where each of
17:21
us feel more comfortable speaking with than others.
17:24
Some of us are very comfortable one on
17:25
one with people. Others are very comfortable with
17:28
groups, and and sort of knowing yourself is,
17:31
is is is really true.
17:33
Fascinating.
17:35
Fascinating.
17:36
Robert, I know I've gotta let you go
17:37
pretty soon, professor.
17:39
Anything else you'd like to share with us
17:40
today about leadership or what what's top of
17:42
mind for you currently?
17:44
Yeah. I think the,
17:46
the concept of emotional intelligence, I'll just kind
17:49
of briefly,
17:50
touch on. I had the opportunity
17:52
to
17:53
work through,
17:55
emotional intelligence,
17:57
with a local health department.
17:58
And I think the
18:00
two
18:01
aspects
18:02
of emotional intelligence
18:04
for future leaders
18:06
is it does help leaders read the room,
18:08
and that kinda even tie back to
18:11
that communication,
18:12
topic.
18:14
The other is
18:16
emotional intelligence improves collaborations.
18:19
Health care, public health
18:22
has the opportunity to create burnout,
18:25
and emotional intelligence
18:27
helps kind of
18:29
reduce that risk, help managers recognize
18:33
the signs of fatigue, frustration,
18:35
and disengagement,
18:36
and respond to their team with empathy
18:40
versus,
18:41
you know, command and control or,
18:43
compliance driven.
18:45
I think
18:47
in closing,
18:48
the three points I hope to, you know,
18:50
share
18:51
is one of the trends I'm seeing is
18:54
master's in public health,
18:56
the degree,
18:57
showing up more and more in job recs,
19:00
you know, based on the skill set and
19:03
the lens they bring to the role.
19:05
Also,
19:06
the,
19:08
best practice that I heard back in the
19:10
in the nineties,
19:11
what I'll pay forward is as emerging leaders
19:15
are able to increase,
19:17
you know, their their salary,
19:19
this great leader from the telecommunications
19:21
world made the suggestion of
19:24
putting some of that into their retirement account.
19:26
And I'm not a financial advisor.
19:28
I've learned from my own successes
19:30
and,
19:31
failures
19:33
in saving for tomorrow. But there is a
19:35
great TED talk,
19:37
that is titled saving for tomorrow tomorrow
19:40
that suggests you put some of your extra
19:42
earnings
19:43
in for the future. And because of compound
19:46
interest,
19:47
if I was a gun leader, I hope,
19:49
I would have heard that earlier in my
19:51
career.
19:53
No. I love that.
19:54
Robert, professor Colin, it is just a pleasure
19:56
to visit with you today. Thank you for
19:58
taking the time to talk leadership with us
20:00
on the Beckers HealthCare podcast.
20:02
Really a tremendous pleasure to visit with you.
20:05
Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks
20:07
for hosting, Scott.