Latest / Go Long Podcast / Happy Hour Replay: Doug Whaley on UFL’s growth, Sammy Watkins & the Buffalo Bills/Pittsburgh Steelers 2026 hopes

Transcript

Happy Hour Replay: Doug Whaley on UFL’s growth, Sammy Watkins & the Buffalo Bills/Pittsburgh Steelers 2026 hopes · Go Long Podcast

0:00
[music]
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, everyone.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: This is awesome.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm so thrilled to bring back these happy hours.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Back when we started Go Long in November of 2020, it was a staple.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Every week we'd bring on folks from around the NFL, players, former players.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Execs, coaches,
0:42
SPEAKER_00: just trying to bring people as close as possible to the real deal,
0:46
SPEAKER_00: give you the chance to ask questions.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: So what a pleasure to welcome back one of those first guests.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I still remember,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: actually it was a podcast that we did with Doug Whaley,
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Jim Monis, shortly after publishing the first two-parter at Golong on Josh Allen.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of pressure on Josh Allen at that time with the backdrop being...
1:09
SPEAKER_00: That Patrick Mahomes was a real possibility.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: So six years later, we're bringing it full circle.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Had to get Doug back on this time, a happy hour.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: How in the hell are you, Doug?
1:20
SPEAKER_00: It's great to see you again, man.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: And life's great.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm truly blessed.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Healthy kids, family's doing great.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: We're enjoying the summer.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: The UFL, we're really making strides.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: We got to the point now where we're not picking up the phone, calling players.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Agents and players are calling us.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: How do I get in the league?
1:39
SPEAKER_01: How do I get in the league?
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Because they see it's a legitimate pathway to the NFL.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: So life's grand.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for those who don't know, Doug Whaley, you are in charge of personnel.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's the official title?
1:54
SPEAKER_00: GM for the whole league?
1:56
SPEAKER_00: I know Jim is your right-hand man again, so you guys are finding the talent.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's Senior Vice President of Player Personnel slash GM of the UFL,
2:05
SPEAKER_01: and it's a really unique setup.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: And the way we have it is eight head coaches,
2:11
SPEAKER_01: they're full time,
2:12
SPEAKER_01: but we mimic it similar to a college where the head coach has full autonomy
2:18
SPEAKER_01: and authority over personnel, over coaching and stuff like that.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: But the caveat is they pick from the player pool that myself and then our scouts
2:28
SPEAKER_01: and our league scouts.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Populate so they can't sign anybody unless we sign off or and put them in
2:35
SPEAKER_01: the player pool so it's it works very good because it helps
2:39
SPEAKER_01: the coaches be more focused on the people they evaluate and we eliminate guys
2:44
SPEAKER_01: that they don't need to watch and one of the things about scouting that people.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Don't really think about is everybody thinks, oh, let me find the guys that can play.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: But you also have to eliminate the guys that can't play.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's a part of the business that you don't talk about,
2:59
SPEAKER_01: but it's an important part of the business.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And you know what I love is you, Jim, Russ, The Rock, everybody involved with the UFL.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: From day one, you guys haven't chased the gimmick, right?
3:13
SPEAKER_00: The cheap sell, like the big name that...
3:17
SPEAKER_00: We'll make the headlines,
3:18
SPEAKER_00: and it'll get the clicks,
3:20
SPEAKER_00: and it might make you money in the short term,
3:23
SPEAKER_00: but that type of player, that type of signing isn't sustainable.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: We all know who those names are.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: You're finding real substantive talent all over the country.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: What is that process really like to find the best of the best?
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, these guys want to be in the NFL, and a lot of them are in camps right now.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Where do you start to flesh out rosters?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: So right now,
3:46
SPEAKER_01: what we're doing is myself and all the scouts in the UFL are really concentrating on
3:52
SPEAKER_01: the NFL training camps.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: And we'll look at undrafted free agents, sixth, seventh round guys.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: We'll put reports in on those guys.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Any guys that are third on the depth chart or lower, and we'll put a player pool together.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: We'll have reports on all those guys.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And put them in the pool.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: But we also look at guys.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: We have showcase events.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's our form of the combine.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: And we have 10 throughout all of the fall.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: And we've had one in D.C., one in St. Louis already.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And then we'll have eight more all the way up until December.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: So anybody that wasn't in an NFL camp and they feel like they want to get evaluated
4:33
SPEAKER_01: by UFL personnel, we push them to the showcase events.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And those are our Two major tranches of players that we really pick from.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Our sweet spot, though, Tyler,
4:45
SPEAKER_01: has been those guys that are in the league for about two or three years,
4:49
SPEAKER_01: have been on and off practice squad,
4:51
SPEAKER_01: maybe had a cup of coffee on an active roster and realized, hey,
4:56
SPEAKER_01: whatever circumstances I am, I'm not being able to catch on to a team long term.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: I need to get to a place where I can showcase my skills,
5:06
SPEAKER_01: For a 10-game season,
5:07
SPEAKER_01: get developed,
5:09
SPEAKER_01: show my skills against other professional athletes in a professional setting
5:13
SPEAKER_01: with professional coaches, and have the NFL evaluate me to make that leap.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at it, we have just from 2026 UFL players, we got 57 players on NFL rosters.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And since spring football, there's 94 players in the league from spring football.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at 57,
5:37
SPEAKER_01: that's close to 20% of our league that is making the jump to NFL rosters now.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Some great numbers there, Doug.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you watch the product, too,
5:52
SPEAKER_00: and you guys are doing so many innovative things that bring the viewer right inside
5:56
SPEAKER_00: of the huddle.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, to hear the coaches,
5:58
SPEAKER_00: what they're saying on the headset, to get the banter with the officiating.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: All that stuff, I got to think, has stickiness, too.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: It seems like the ratings are solid.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: The interest is solid.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: And the NFL, I should say, the sport in general...
6:13
SPEAKER_00: The NFL has been dying for a minor league.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: The NFL is such a developmental problem.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's known it, and other leagues have tried and failed.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: Do you think you guys have kind of like decoded this whole thing
6:25
SPEAKER_00: and figured out what works for this to last long term?
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, any successful organization, it starts at the top with ownership.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: With Mike Rapoli, owner Spartwater, Body Armor, he's the one that...
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Came in just last year as a majority owner,
6:46
SPEAKER_01: along with Redbird Capital, Dwayne Rock Johnson, Danny Garcia.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: But he has taken a lead.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: And the thing he wanted to make sure is, hey, listen, we have to give fans what they want.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And they want access, access that they can't have in the NFL.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: But also they want something that's true to football.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So all our innovations, we got to make sure they're not gimmicks.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And gimmicky, but they're true to football, but pushing football to where fans want to see.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: And one of the biggest rule changes we have that promotes
7:19
SPEAKER_01: or stamps what we're trying to do is once you cross the 50, no punting.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: How frustrating it is for fans and media people where you have a fourth and three at
7:30
SPEAKER_01: the plus 35 and a guy punts and It's just maddening for our fans.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: So we know we don't have the upper echelon talent.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: We're scratching the surface of that.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: So what else can we give fans to get them intrigued?
7:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's aggressive football that is highly We have certain players that are in
7:49
SPEAKER_01: a radius of that market that teams can allocate so they have some affinity for
7:53
SPEAKER_01: that region and that market.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: People that come out and see like, oh, I remember him, Louisville.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: He played at Louisville.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: So blah, blah, blah.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: So those are the type of things we're doing to get fan interest.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: But to keep the fan interest is the play on the field.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And every year it just it just keeps getting better and better.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Who was your favorite player to watch this past season or even a guy
8:30
SPEAKER_00: that you think has a shot in an NFL training camp right now?
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I think Cam Gill, he's a defensive end from the Louisville Kings.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: He came in,
8:40
SPEAKER_01: he's one of those guys that's undersized,
8:43
SPEAKER_01: but with his quickness, his ability to bend the edge and really get skinny.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: And when I say skinny,
8:48
SPEAKER_01: he doesn't give offensive linemen a Something to touch and really put a surface,
8:57
SPEAKER_01: a broad surface for them to get their hands on and give the punch or lock on
9:00
SPEAKER_01: to them.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: So it's going to be interesting to see if that can translate to the NFL.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: But again,
9:05
SPEAKER_01: with 57 players,
9:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm just excited for all these guys,
9:08
SPEAKER_01: because what I tell people is when I was in the NFL,
9:12
SPEAKER_01: We were able to grant people their lifelong wishes.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: A lot of these guys have been sacrificing,
9:19
SPEAKER_01: giving up blood, sweat,
9:20
SPEAKER_01: and tears since they were six,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: seven years old, and they reached the pinnacle of the NFL.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: And it was great to see guys,
9:27
SPEAKER_01: when we call them on draft day,
9:29
SPEAKER_01: and you just hear a deafening sound of everybody in their background just excited
9:33
SPEAKER_01: and everything.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, now we're getting to the point where we're able to grant guys their wishes
9:39
SPEAKER_01: that never got that dream up.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: To come to fruition.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: So these guys have been banging their heads,
9:47
SPEAKER_01: sitting there, when is that phone call going to happen?
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I got to stay ready because you never know.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: And then when we get them in the UFL and then they make that jump to the NFL,
9:57
SPEAKER_01: it's just really exciting for us.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're here for, to give these guys an opportunity.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: It really is like every dream that every...
10:08
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure we have some people on the call that can relate.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Like every old washed up high school football player,
10:13
SPEAKER_00: like we all have it 20 years later where you're playing Randolph again in
10:18
SPEAKER_00: the section six final Ralph Wilson State.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: He got another shot to give these guys a second chance.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: It's unbelievable.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: You're probably seeing that same joy.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: I think this is this is real.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: The dream is still alive, everyone.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And for them,
10:32
SPEAKER_01: and you see them coming into camp and how focused they are,
10:35
SPEAKER_01: but how appreciative they are to have this opportunity and have this avenue
10:40
SPEAKER_01: to really utilize, to really decide, hey, I can make it at the next level.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Or it's one of those things where after two or three years,
10:50
SPEAKER_01: maybe in our league, they're like, okay, I've maximized it.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: I've gone further than a lot of people, but It's time for me to get on with the life.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Now, don't quote me on this stat,
11:01
SPEAKER_01: but I think what I heard was the NFL has been in existence over 100 years.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: If you take everybody that's ever played in the NFL,
11:11
SPEAKER_01: I think it equals 25,000 people over 100 years.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So when you talk to the NFL,
11:17
SPEAKER_01: you're talking the creme de la creme, the best of the best, the upper 1%.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So in the UFL, you're talking maybe the top 2% or 3%.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: So the top 2% or 3% of any profession, you've really made a mark on the profession.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, you've got to be proud of what you accomplished.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, Doug,
11:39
SPEAKER_00: for those who don't know,
11:39
SPEAKER_00: obviously running the UFL,
11:41
SPEAKER_00: you're working those NIL negotiations with the Pitt Panthers,
11:45
SPEAKER_00: GM of the Buffalo Bills from May of 2013 to May of 2017,
11:51
SPEAKER_00: a decade with the Pittsburgh Steelers before that.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: So, Bill, Chris, Al, Kyle, we got a great crew in here.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Anybody just jump in.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Ask anything you'd like.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Doug, the beauty of Doug Whaley, you are an open book, man.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: You can pick up the phone and chat about anything and everything.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: So go ahead, Al.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Tyler.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Doug.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah,
12:18
SPEAKER_02: you've done some amazing things,
12:20
SPEAKER_02: getting Shady, getting Jerry Hughes, a lot of amazing talent.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm just curious if you could...
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Take us back into the draft room.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: When you were looking at Sammy, I know Sammy was number one on most boards.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: From what I read, Mike Maycock, all the draft experts were saying he's number one.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: He's a lock.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: He's the best.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Bills obviously made the move.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Got him, yeah, below one.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: But, yeah, but then, like, just curious, like, what was going on in that room?
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, What were you guys thinking at the time?
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Just Sammy was amazing, brought so much juice, just to get your thoughts on that trade.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, at the time, we had a young quarterback in E.J.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Manuel, and we thought,
13:11
SPEAKER_01: OK, what we need to do is pair him up with a bona fide number one wide receiver.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: And as you just said,
13:18
SPEAKER_01: out of that class,
13:20
SPEAKER_01: it was him, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. Those were the top of the guys.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: And when you look at when you're evaluating talent
13:30
SPEAKER_01: and you're stacking your draft board,
13:32
SPEAKER_01: it is a combination of what the scouts think, but also what the coaches think.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to force a guy on a coaching staff that they don't like
13:42
SPEAKER_01: because he'll never have a chance.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And then coaches don't want to force players that we don't like in personnel
13:48
SPEAKER_01: to have us draft them.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: So what we do is we try to come to a consensus on one player or a group of players
13:56
SPEAKER_01: that we all feel good about.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: And at the wide receiver position,
14:00
SPEAKER_01: we thought, Sammy was the one where we all saw the same thing.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: We all had the same vision for him and how he could compete and help elevate not only E.J.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Manuel, but the Buffalo Bills.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So and obviously we weren't.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: We didn't see anything that everybody else didn't see.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, he was number one on a lot of people's board.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: The thing that we found out and it was an educational moment for myself is.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: The thing that we didn't know was
14:31
SPEAKER_01: a guy like Sammy Watkins had had success every step of his football career.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: He never had a setback.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And when he finally and when he got to the Bills, he had some really good moments early.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: But what happened and it really derailed him more mentally than physically and is
14:48
SPEAKER_01: when he got injured and he never knew how to deal with that injury,
14:53
SPEAKER_01: how to deal with that setback.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: And it really threw him off his game.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Not only in football,
15:00
SPEAKER_01: but if you talk to him and Tyler,
15:02
SPEAKER_01: I know you've talked to him and wrote about it even in his life.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And those are the things that as a GM,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: you don't really think about until you're confronted with it right there
15:13
SPEAKER_01: because you're thinking these guys are elite athletes.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: They know how to handle success,
15:17
SPEAKER_01: but more importantly,
15:18
SPEAKER_01: they know how to take a punch and come back swinging even harder.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: But some people that have never had a setback or something bad happened to them,
15:28
SPEAKER_01: when it does, some of them just don't know how to handle it.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what really,
15:33
SPEAKER_01: he had a good career, but he didn't have the career everybody thought he would have.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the main reasons why.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: I see.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: How do you test for that?
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, all these guys are number one out of high school, number one out of college.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: There's some people who never have adversity.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: So if you don't see that,
15:51
SPEAKER_02: do you just probe with their coaches,
15:55
SPEAKER_02: their position coach, and see how they react to setbacks in practice?
16:00
SPEAKER_02: How do you get that if they don't have anything major?
16:03
SPEAKER_02: Like would you call it with Sammy?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people do, right?
16:05
SPEAKER_02: That's hard.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of those things where you're dealing with humans and they're
16:09
SPEAKER_01: the most unpredictable beings on Earth.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: And even though you may talk to the coach,
16:14
SPEAKER_01: you may talk to his high school coach,
16:15
SPEAKER_01: you may talk to their mental professional at the school and say,
16:20
SPEAKER_01: what's this guy's mental makeup?
16:22
SPEAKER_01: You can do a lot of research and they can have some key KPIs that point to, oh, he'll be OK.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: But you just never know how someone's going to react until they go through that situation.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: So I wish it was something that was more concrete to be able to check the boxes.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: But that's why scouting and player evaluation is just so hard because
16:47
SPEAKER_01: the unpredictability of the human.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Doug.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: That's such a great point, man.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: The adversity question, I mean,
17:00
SPEAKER_00: that came up chatting with Chase Edmonds about Kyler Murray
17:05
SPEAKER_00: and their really good friends.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And he said he'd never faced adversity in his life.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Really?
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Never lost a high school game.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: Three state titles.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Heisman Trophy winner, number one pick.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of players who have never faced it.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: And you're right, Doug, man.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Sitting down with Sammy in Orlando for that story at Bleach Report was so eye-opening for me.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it was even for you.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: I think he was kind of revealing for the first time.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Like the drinking and the partying and staying up late and not sleeping much and how
17:36
SPEAKER_00: that contributed to these injuries.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: And it became this vicious cycle of sadness and depression and not being able to stay healthy.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And, oh, now my brother is tied up in this Rico investigation and family members and friends.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And I got to handle that.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting pulled from people back in Florida.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine trying to juggle that all if you're Sammy Watkins with the pressure
17:58
SPEAKER_00: of being a high pick.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's on you because you got to stay healthy and you got to produce.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that we have to as a society,
18:08
SPEAKER_01: but more importantly,
18:09
SPEAKER_01: as sports fans realize that as well as trained as these athletes are,
18:15
SPEAKER_01: any professional athletes, they've Well-trained, well-prepared, but they are humans.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: And there are things that go on in their life that can affect them personally,
18:26
SPEAKER_01: but can also affect their play.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: If you were going through a divorce,
18:30
SPEAKER_01: you're probably not being the best employee and hitting on all cylinders
18:35
SPEAKER_01: and producing at the highest level because you have that stress at home of divorce
18:38
SPEAKER_01: or whatever is going on in your life.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: The difference is you go to work every day.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: You're not on NBC with...
18:48
SPEAKER_01: 20 million people watching you and you're working five days a week,
18:53
SPEAKER_01: four weeks a month, 52 weeks a year.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Players,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: NFL players or any sports,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: they have a finite number of chances to really produce and show what they can do as
19:06
SPEAKER_01: a professional athlete.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: So when you have 17 games,
19:09
SPEAKER_01: if you're down in the dumps and depressed or you haven't been sleeping and in
19:13
SPEAKER_01: a five-game stretch, you're not putting up the numbers, that's going to affect them.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's what people got to understand.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: You're dealing with people and humans and just like you have problems and issues, they do too.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: So you got to kind of just kind of dial it back and say, Hey,
19:28
SPEAKER_01: is this guy really not performing because he was overdrafted or he isn't as good
19:33
SPEAKER_01: as we thought?
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Or are there other circumstances, extenuating circumstances that are affecting his performance?
19:42
SPEAKER_00: I think Kyle has a question coming up, too.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Just lastly,
19:46
SPEAKER_00: on that 2014 draft,
19:48
SPEAKER_00: if you could do a do-over, Doug, who would you take at that pick?
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Mike Evans.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for a receiver, Mike Evans.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And the thought process there was, I mean,
19:59
SPEAKER_01: the coaching staff didn't see Mike Evans as
20:02
SPEAKER_01: a bona fide outside number one wide receiver.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: In their system that we were running at the time, they thought he was going to be a big slot.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And we were saying, you can't draft a guy where we were drafting to be a slot.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: At that time, everybody wasn't running 11 personnel.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: It was just starting to be invoked.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So we're like, unless you're an outside number one, like an X or Y, that's just too rich.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I said we finalized that, hey, Sammy's that guy.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Go to Ben.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: All right, Kyle.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I never did text you back, Kyle.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I was fishing with Sonny today, and I never got back to you.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm a bad friend.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I will get back to you after this happy hour.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: Take it away.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: I know Banged Up Bills has a good question for Doug.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
20:50
SPEAKER_02: I actually was driving home from getting the kids from their different activities
20:54
SPEAKER_02: and didn't realize I was on mute.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: But, Doug, thanks for doing all this stuff.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: I really enjoy everything that you're doing with the UFL there.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: I did have a comment and a question.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: So like Tyler said, I do a thing called banged up bills.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm a physical therapist by trade.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: I look at the bills injuries,
21:16
SPEAKER_02: league injuries,
21:18
SPEAKER_02: everything that involves the injury report and whatnot, I like to look into.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: So I like that the UFL designates between right and left sides for body parts,
21:27
SPEAKER_02: whether it's hamstring or calf or whatever body part it is.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: I think it's important to understand pattern recognition and then know how
21:33
SPEAKER_02: that player is going to perform based off of that particular side that
21:37
SPEAKER_02: the injuries is on there.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: So kudos to the UFL for doing that.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: My question is, I've really gotten to more analytics and injury data stuff.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: So if somebody...
21:51
SPEAKER_02: I've asked the analytics guy already this,
21:52
SPEAKER_02: but I've been told the scouts kind of just look at the injury reports.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: They kind of get an idea of the practice participation and they kind
21:59
SPEAKER_02: of guesstimate what things are looking like heading into the week of
22:03
SPEAKER_02: whether guys can play or not.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: If the analytics team,
22:07
SPEAKER_02: the GMs,
22:08
SPEAKER_02: if they had more concrete data on how teams operate for specific injuries,
22:13
SPEAKER_02: would they find value in that?
22:14
SPEAKER_02: Or is that just more noise in identifying how for game planning?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: No, it would be definitely valuable, but I know this much.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: No team would want that out.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: If I'm the Bills and I have this information,
22:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm not putting it out there to Kansas City or to the other 31 teams.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Now, what you want to do, though,
22:35
SPEAKER_01: is take that information and then sit down with your medical staff,
22:40
SPEAKER_01: with your performance staff and say, okay, Is this a trend?
22:44
SPEAKER_01: If this is a trend,
22:46
SPEAKER_01: what are we doing that perpetuates this trend or what can we do to stave off?
22:52
SPEAKER_01: So you want to keep that information in-house,
22:54
SPEAKER_01: but it would be very valuable if you could add analytics to it.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: In the recovery process,
23:01
SPEAKER_01: analytics with the tracking data and all that has helped with return
23:06
SPEAKER_01: to play immensely.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, about load management.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So that analytics part is thoroughly useful in the football today.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: But you don't want that information getting out to your opponents.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Well,
23:22
SPEAKER_02: if you had somebody in-house looking at that stuff or had the ability to track all
23:27
SPEAKER_02: that stuff,
23:28
SPEAKER_02: looking at your opponent, though,
23:29
SPEAKER_02: you'd have a pretty good advantage of knowing who's going to play based off
23:33
SPEAKER_02: of how they operated off these previous injuries, correct?
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: No doubt about it.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry I thought you were talking about a different – but, yeah,
23:40
SPEAKER_01: if you had someone studying their performance program,
23:44
SPEAKER_01: the history of their medical team,
23:46
SPEAKER_01: how they do stuff, what are they – Guys have got injured.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Have they got them back earlier than expected, later than expected?
23:55
SPEAKER_01: So those are the type of things that you could really use, be useful in game planning.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: That's pretty much answered my question.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: I know that like teams will look internally and identify certain trends and try
24:07
SPEAKER_02: to keep that stuff in house so they can,
24:09
SPEAKER_02: you know,
24:10
SPEAKER_02: prevent,
24:11
SPEAKER_02: given the team a, their opposing team information that can help play against.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: But if you have somebody inside,
24:18
SPEAKER_02: But I assume that there's only so much bandwidth for analytics to look at.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: They probably just, let's look at the stuff we can control and then move on from there, correct?
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, it depends on how big your analytics department is.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And that starts at the top.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that's happening now.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: When you look at it,
24:35
SPEAKER_01: ownerships change from the original NFL owners that grew up in the business
24:39
SPEAKER_01: in football.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: You're getting business people coming to own sports teams now.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of them made their money.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Using analytics to help them gain an edge.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: And they're starting to push that into sports.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: And sports people are starting to realize that instead of being subjective
24:57
SPEAKER_01: and saying, oh,
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I think,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: or I believe,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: or let me use my past experience,
25:02
SPEAKER_01: you can put numerical data to help make decisions or help make informed decisions.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: That really helps answer some of the questions I've had and really helps me kind of Hey, Ty.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Doug.
25:16
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Bill.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: First off, Doug, thanks for keeping the team in Buffalo.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for ending the streak.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think guys like you get enough credit for keeping the team in Buffalo and
25:41
SPEAKER_03: The foundation for the new stadium,
25:43
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:43
SPEAKER_03: for example,
25:44
SPEAKER_03: that we've got this year,
25:45
SPEAKER_03: but building on the business side,
25:49
SPEAKER_03: I guess it's kind of a two part question,
25:51
SPEAKER_03: but I guess one part is,
25:55
SPEAKER_03: how did you keep the Bills so competitive when,
26:00
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:01
SPEAKER_03: those of us that are kind of old timers remember kind of the cash to cap
26:05
SPEAKER_03: the Ralph Wilson thing?
26:07
SPEAKER_03: And then you've got Dan Snyder where,
26:10
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:10
SPEAKER_03: the salary cap was a light suggestion and,
26:14
SPEAKER_03: you know, how you kept the bills competitive.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: And then secondly,
26:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
26:18
SPEAKER_03: I guess from your perspective,
26:21
SPEAKER_03: what was key in keeping the team in Buffalo was kind of the way Ralph had set up
26:26
SPEAKER_03: the way the team would be sold.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: I guess his niece, Mary,
26:30
SPEAKER_03: the Pagoulas,
26:31
SPEAKER_03: maybe just some perspective on that kind of a long question, but yeah, thanks.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: Thanks again.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll answer the last part first.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: A lot of that goes to Russ Brandon.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: He's the one that led the sale of the Bills.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: But you've got to also think about it.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: When the Bills had that stretch, I think it was 18 years of non-playoffs, he was the man.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: That headed at the business department and the business side to make sure
26:55
SPEAKER_01: that they were still viable as a franchise to be able to sign free agents,
27:02
SPEAKER_01: get sponsorship deals and everything.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: So he was a magician and he's a great relationship person
27:08
SPEAKER_01: and he built relationships throughout Western New York,
27:12
SPEAKER_01: in Ontario, Canada,
27:13
SPEAKER_01: all of those to really make sure that Bill's Mafia had something
27:18
SPEAKER_01: that they knew was going to be theirs and wasn't going to And that was one of
27:22
SPEAKER_01: the reasons why I think Pagula was one of the persons besides him with
27:26
SPEAKER_01: the asking price to being able to pay that.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: But with his roots in Western New York,
27:33
SPEAKER_01: he he was one of the guys that said, we're not moving it.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: We're keeping it in Western New York.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: So for Russ to identify and make sure.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: That Pagula was one of those people that understood this is something that
27:46
SPEAKER_01: the NFL wants, and more importantly, Western New York wants.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I give all credit, and he is one of the main reasons why the Bills are there today.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: To keep us competitive,
27:59
SPEAKER_01: it all came down to us realizing that we have to hit on our draft choices.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And yes, you're going to miss.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a saying in scouting, if you haven't missed, you haven't scouted.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: But what I'm talking about is your fourth through seventh rounders.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: You need those type of guys to be able to come in and be very solid backups
28:20
SPEAKER_01: that can contribute, if not Develop into starters.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: And then what we also turned our attention to is what we call dust settle free agents.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: And those are the free agents when day one and day two, you get the big name signed free agents.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: And every once in a while, we'd sprinkle one of those in.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: But we used to really focus on those dust settles,
28:41
SPEAKER_01: those guys that signed at the end of the first week,
28:44
SPEAKER_01: beginning of the second week, like the Corey Grahams, like the Booby Dixons.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Those are the type of guys that Outperform their contract,
28:53
SPEAKER_01: solid citizens,
28:54
SPEAKER_01: great players that aren't the marquee free agents,
28:58
SPEAKER_01: but can come in,
28:59
SPEAKER_01: help your team win,
29:01
SPEAKER_01: give you depth, or come in and outperform their contract as starters.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: So that was our focus and really our game plan to keep us as competitive as possible.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Again, the thing we just never were able to hit on until we left was the quarterback.
29:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I remember some of those free agents.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, those are great, great pickups.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I went to a D.C. Defenders game at Audi Field.
29:29
SPEAKER_03: It was a great atmosphere.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Did you take part of the beer snake, I guess, is the
29:35
SPEAKER_03: question.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: I did not.
29:38
SPEAKER_03: I have footage of it, though.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: I was close with it.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's an impressive thing.
29:43
SPEAKER_03: And then, yeah, they got the Viper or whatever.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: They have an actual snake as the mascot.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: So great, great tie-ins there.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: Good stuff all around.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Doug, in 2017, you and Jim led that search that led to Sean McDermott becoming the head coach.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: By May, you're let go.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: It's been almost a decade since then.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Sean's out.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Joe Brady's in.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: What do you make of the state of the Buffalo Bills?
30:15
SPEAKER_00: This is a team that did find the quarterback.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: They get Josh Allen.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: He's the center of the universe.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: But they haven't been able to get to a Super Bowl.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And what do you see coming in 2026?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, when I was there, it was let's make the playoffs.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those things where they're the victim of their own success.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: And plus,
30:39
SPEAKER_01: when you add to the fact that you have Arguably the second best quarterback in
30:45
SPEAKER_01: the NFL.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: The pressure is just immense to,
30:49
SPEAKER_01: and I wouldn't say waste his years,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: but capitalize on his formative years, his years where he's at peak performance.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: And the bar gets raised.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: And it got raised from making the playoffs to now making a championship game
31:07
SPEAKER_01: to now making the Super Bowl.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of pressure on Joe Brady.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Making an AFC Championship is the bottom of the barrel.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: That's your Mendoza line.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: You have to get in.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things where it's a good thing for the fans,
31:27
SPEAKER_01: but their expectation and the pressure on the people inside that building,
31:30
SPEAKER_01: the coaches, the players, they have to lean into it.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: From just what I'm hearing from Dawkins talking and Josh Allen talking,
31:39
SPEAKER_01: They're accepting of what is expected of them.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: So I always harken back to Charlie Batch,
31:47
SPEAKER_01: and he said this one thing that I'll never forget,
31:49
SPEAKER_01: and I was part of two Super Bowl teams, and it cements it without a doubt.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Competitive teams, the culture set by the coaching staff.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Championship teams, the culture set by the locker room.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: And just listening to those players,
32:11
SPEAKER_01: excerpts of interviews and everything,
32:13
SPEAKER_01: I think that locker room is starting to come together and saying,
32:17
SPEAKER_01: it's not Coach McDonough, it's not Coach Brady, it's us.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: We need to get this right,
32:23
SPEAKER_01: form together as a unit with one goal in mind, and that's to win a championship.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: And just some of those things you hear coming out, I think they're on the right path.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: And from a GM's perspective,
32:39
SPEAKER_00: what do you make of the moves like this offseason to get over the hump, right?
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Trading for DJ Moore,
32:44
SPEAKER_00: you got Bradley Chubb,
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Dee Alford, TJ Gardner-Johnson, some defensive help in the draft.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: If you're kind of tweaking this thing and trying to find the right ingredients for
32:57
SPEAKER_00: the locker room, you're right, that's huge.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: But just personnel man to personnel man.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: I think you look at it,
33:03
SPEAKER_01: obviously they wanted to try to get some firepower around Josh,
33:08
SPEAKER_01: with those moves on offense and in defense,
33:10
SPEAKER_01: because of the switch in defensive philosophy and defensive scheme,
33:16
SPEAKER_01: they needed to invest in that defense.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Sean had a defensive philosophy and scheme that was rooted in the NFC South,
33:25
SPEAKER_01: and it was Wasn't translating to football today,
33:30
SPEAKER_01: but more importantly, the teams that they're playing.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: So they needed to retool that defense and have guys come in that fit
33:40
SPEAKER_01: that new scheme, not only physically, but mentally and with their attitude.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you look at the quarterbacks in the AFC, you better be attacking.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Not sitting back, not being stagnant.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: You've got to mix shit up before the snap.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: That's going to change, right?
33:57
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be crazy, you would think.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: You have to be aggressive.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to try to throw them off their game mentally.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: But if you sit back and just think,
34:06
SPEAKER_01: oh, we're going to be disciplined enough not to make a mistake and we'll be okay.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Quarterback play is just too, in the AFC especially, is just too good these days.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: I know Chris is on the call.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, definitely fire away with any more questions you guys may have for Doug.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot too.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: He's a very smart man here with a ton of experience.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this, Tyler.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: I know you have a long history with Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: What do you think of that reunion?
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Man, I did not think it was going to happen, Doug.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Back in – Gosh,
34:50
SPEAKER_00: 2021 is – or I guess 19 is when things fell apart, so a couple years before that.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: It was ugly at the end.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: You know,
35:00
SPEAKER_00: at that point,
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Rodgers is doing whatever Aaron Rodgers wants at the line of scrimmage,
35:05
SPEAKER_00: and it was hard to blame him.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I think schematically things got stale.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: They also didn't have the personnel.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: But you know what, Doug?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Like over the last few years, I've been pretty impressed with Mike McCarthy.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, in Dallas – That's a different world down there.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Football is secondary to everything else.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I think it drove him nuts to just be at the cafeteria.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: This is what one person told me.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: He's in the cafeteria in between meetings, right?
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Eating real quick.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: And you got a long line of marketing execs and people
35:36
SPEAKER_00: in different departments throughout the building.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And there's stadium tours walking by.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: He basically said in so many words, if I knew it was this bad, I don't know if I'd be here.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
35:47
SPEAKER_00: you know what you're getting into,
35:48
SPEAKER_00: but you really don't know what you're getting into in Jerry's world.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: And he figured out a way to win 12 games, three years in a row.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Rodgers is 42.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: His arms still damn good.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: His mind is elite.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: But there's only so much you can do at 42 years old, right?
36:07
SPEAKER_00: And then you look at the Bengals.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: You look at the Ravens.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: You look throughout the AFC.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: I feel like 7 and 10, 8 and 9 is the seal.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, last year, a lot broke their way.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: All of the injuries.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Everything broke the Steelers' way.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: I can't see that again.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Even the last game.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Missing the field goal.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: The Ravens missed the field goal, and that's how they sneak in.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're right there in Pittsburgh, so what do you make of it, Doug?
36:36
SPEAKER_00: If you're building a team, I don't know.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm short-sighted on this.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: I feel like the Steeler fans are ready to take a step back if it means five steps forward.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: The Roonies make it clear, we're not going to rebuild.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Rebuilding isn't what we're about.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's admirable to fight like hell with Devlin freaking the Duck Hodges
37:00
SPEAKER_00: to be fighting for a playoff spot that year.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: But it pays to give a GM power who will look at the forest,
37:10
SPEAKER_00: not the trees, and think about the long-term plan for an organization.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: You see it all the time.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: They never really think long-term, it seems, in Pittsburgh.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's probably from the top down.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's definitely from the top end.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: And when he got hired, everybody asked me what I thought.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: And I said, go back to the postseason news conference or press conference that Art Rooney gave.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: And he said, I never believe on giving up on a season.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: We're going to do everything to be as competitive as possible every season.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: And then when you look at their expectations,
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Next biggest question mark is finding the next quarterback.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: So when you look at Mike McCarthy,
37:51
SPEAKER_01: a proven coach that can keep their teams as competitive as possible,
37:57
SPEAKER_01: but more importantly, maximizing quarterback talent.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: What he did with obviously Aaron,
38:02
SPEAKER_01: what he did with Dak,
38:04
SPEAKER_01: but this is going to be the first time he's actually identified and developed.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Because Aaron was there when he got there.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't him identifying.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: So the Drew Aller pick is squarely on Mike McCarthy's shoulders.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: And Mike McCarthy's saying, this is the guy that I can make and develop and maximize.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: But from the Steelers standpoint,
38:26
SPEAKER_01: you have a veteran coach that can come in,
38:29
SPEAKER_01: has coached already two of the most iconic franchises, Steelers being a third.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: And he's had all of those franchises together.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: In a competitive mode.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Now, are they contenders?
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Green Bay, yeah.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: They slack.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: Dallas, somebody can.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the Steelers are contenders for championships, but they will be competitive.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: So you see a future for Drew Aller with Mike McCarthy's fingerprints all over it, maybe?
38:58
SPEAKER_01: They do.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm holding my judgment.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Great first step, though, how he played this first game and preseason game.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: But when you look at how he played, I said he just needs to execute.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And they did a good job of giving him plays that were easily executable
39:19
SPEAKER_01: to gain confidence with him.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: A lot of those plays were one, two, three, hit the skinny, one, two, three, hit the slant.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Not much dropping back, reading coverage, going to one to two.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: But When you're trying to break down a player and build him back up into
39:34
SPEAKER_01: the image you want, you got to give him success early.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: And that's what they did.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's encouraging to me of not only how he performed,
39:43
SPEAKER_01: but the overall philosophy of trying to get him to be that guy.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to be this year,
39:49
SPEAKER_01: probably next year, but you want to see incremental growth from that guy.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And we'll see what happens if he can build on it and Game two this Friday.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: To the extent that you'd like to take us inside your interview.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you interviewed for the GM job, right?
40:09
SPEAKER_00: When Omar Khan got it.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: What was that
40:12
SPEAKER_00: like, Doug?
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean,
40:14
SPEAKER_01: being there, I had,
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I'd only been with Tomlin two years before I came to the Buffalo,
40:21
SPEAKER_01: but I knew Art, I knew Grant Dan Rooney Jr.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: So it was one of the more, Get to reacquaint it.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: And what did I learn leaving the Steelers?
40:30
SPEAKER_01: What different philosophies and coming from a place that was in search of
40:37
SPEAKER_01: a quarterback, they're thinking, okay, we need to get one.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: What was your game plan for that?
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Obviously told them about how we maneuvered around to have the Bills in position to draft Josh.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: So it was a lot of that type of stuff.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's how we do it.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: Here's how you did it.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: You know how we do it here.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: What is something that you learned outside the organization that you could help us
41:03
SPEAKER_01: with the situation we have now?
41:05
SPEAKER_01: So it was an honor to be there.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Now, when they went with Omar, totally understand it.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: He had been in there.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: He had worked with Mike before, but more importantly, he had worked with Art hand in hand.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: So for them to have him be the GM, I totally get it.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: And the philosophy of how they're building this team Is something that I subscribe to.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: They don't have that franchise quarterback right now.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: They're just throwing darts.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: But what they're trying to do, though, is if you look at their drafts, build up the trenches.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Build up everything around that quarterback.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: So if they ever do get a young quarterback, he's not coming in on a depleted team.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: They're going to have three first round picks on the offensive line.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: They had a first round pick on the defensive line.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: They got three ballets.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Beast of pass rushers.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: They got DK Madpath, Pittman, Jeremy Bernard.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: So they're sprinkling in talent all the way around.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: So when that quarterback gets in, it's not a rookie trying to be the savior.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a rookie just like when Roethlisberger came into playing at the Steelers.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers had a number one defense and a number one rushing attack.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: That helps a quarterback immensely.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: He's got to find the quarterback, right?
42:23
SPEAKER_00: No pressure.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: That's all you got to do.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Just click that position into play.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Hey, anything else for Doug here before we sign off?
42:37
SPEAKER_00: Hey, Doug, one more.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh, sorry.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, Christopher.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: So, Doug,
42:43
SPEAKER_02: you mentioned access,
42:45
SPEAKER_02: and that's one of the things that I appreciate
42:46
SPEAKER_02: about Tyler running these is it gives us regular people access to people
42:51
SPEAKER_02: that we wouldn't regularly have access to.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: And so, Tyler, thank you for organizing that.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: It's really awesome to be able to participate.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Doug, do you think they fired the right person?
43:06
SPEAKER_02: Because I just look at this roster.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: We're at the cap,
43:10
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:11
SPEAKER_02: and if Josh wasn't on this team,
43:14
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:14
SPEAKER_02: you put like a, you know, a 10 to 15, you know, ranked quarterback on this team.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think they don't, I don't think the Bills make the playoffs, you know?
43:22
SPEAKER_02: So I was just curious what your thoughts were.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: The only thing I say,
43:26
SPEAKER_01: and it was,
43:28
SPEAKER_01: if you really look at it,
43:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they fired the right person,
43:32
SPEAKER_01: but I think one of the reasons why Sean was fired is if you go back
43:38
SPEAKER_01: to Every situation where he could have affected the game in a positive way
43:45
SPEAKER_01: and he'd be the difference for them to win, he never made the right call.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And then when you look at it when this last year where there were a lot of
43:58
SPEAKER_01: the elite quarterbacks in the AFC either not performing at a high level or injured,
44:04
SPEAKER_01: this was, again,
44:05
SPEAKER_01: a time where he – And the Buffalo Bills needed to take advantage of that pathway.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: And it never happened.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: So is he a good coach?
44:13
SPEAKER_01: He's an excellent coach.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it came down to Terry thinking that he got us to where from where we were to
44:21
SPEAKER_01: where he got us to.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: He tips his hat to him.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: But it's now he didn't think he believed he could be the guy to take him to
44:27
SPEAKER_01: the ultimate goal,
44:29
SPEAKER_01: which is to the Super Bowl and winning a Super Bowl because of those issues.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: In-game moments where it's crucial, it's 13 seconds left in Europe, you know what I mean?
44:38
SPEAKER_01: You're up against Kansas City, making the right call there.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: Against Denver at home and blitzing and giving them another time and
44:48
SPEAKER_01: then they come back and win.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: So all of those in-game moments where it actually, he could make the call to win the game.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: It just never came to fruition.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's if you had to point to anything,
45:02
SPEAKER_01: that would be the reason why I think Terry let Sean go.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean,
45:10
SPEAKER_02: I think if he would have done it after 13 seconds,
45:13
SPEAKER_02: I think I would have been okay with it.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: But I think I thought he did better, you know, afterwards.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, he dealt with injuries.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, Josh had like the four interceptions or whatever against Denver.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean,
45:26
SPEAKER_02: I agree where there were instances where McDermott,
45:30
SPEAKER_02: I feel like if he didn't see a situation before,
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Like he kind of struggled with that decision.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: But once he saw that, like he corrected it.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: But I guess it's kind of like, how do you prepare for every situation, you
45:41
SPEAKER_01: know?
45:43
SPEAKER_01: And you're right.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's a very prepared man.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: And you're right.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: If he's seen it before, if he or he prepared for that situation.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: But that's the difference between good coaches and great coaches.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Great coaches have that innate skill to when it's crunch time,
46:00
SPEAKER_01: being able to make the right call.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that Denver game, you've got the Allen turnovers.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: No doubt about it, Chris.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: You ain't wrong.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Those were huge.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: 27-23, third and long.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: Looks like he's sending the dogs.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: They back off.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Bo Nix finds Cortland Sutton.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And then I think the two plays that probably stood out, too,
46:29
SPEAKER_00: are when Denver went after Darnell Savage right at safety, when a safety goes down.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: And then they go after Dane Jackson.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: I think when Tredavious White went down, two touchdowns.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: It was almost like Sean Payton was kind of – he sensed weakness and attacked.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And those are kind of like those specific moments you're talking – and then there's
46:50
SPEAKER_00: the bigger picture of like this team has just been banging its damn head against
46:55
SPEAKER_00: the wall.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: The emotions in January, Terry Pegula referenced it after Denver.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean year to year to year.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: It's something – Had the change.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: They didn't want to completely fumigate the building and reset everything
47:11
SPEAKER_00: when there's been a lot of winning.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Josh Allen is the center of the universe.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: So you bring him in all these nine head coaching interviews.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Time will tell, right?
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean,
47:22
SPEAKER_00: nobody can sit here and say,
47:23
SPEAKER_00: damn it, they did the right thing and it's going to lead to a Super Bowl.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: But I get it.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: I can follow the logic, you know, with seven months to really think about it.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Because that relationship is so important, head coach and quarterback.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: It was bad before.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: It's really good now.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: I think that gives you a chance to win a Super Bowl.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And our good friend Jim Monas always says,
47:44
SPEAKER_01: there's – The most important relationship in the building is the relationship
47:49
SPEAKER_01: between the quarterback and whoever's calling those plays and the head coach.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: And the second most important relationship is the relationship between owner,
47:58
SPEAKER_01: head coach, and GM.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: But the first is that quarterback and the play caller.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: No doubt about it.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Doug, thank you so much.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for those who don't know, I was just texting Doug today.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Hey, we should do a happy hour.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: And boom, here he is.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Same day, hopping on on a Wednesday night.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: This was fantastic.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: I know I was talking with Jim, too.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: He said that we have to get together in the flesh,
48:28
SPEAKER_00: maybe a little Villaggio, Nick Petillo, down my neck of the woods.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: Is that all right with you?
48:35
SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: First of all, thanks for having me.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: Everybody that joined,
48:39
SPEAKER_01: thanks for spending some time with me on this evening,
48:42
SPEAKER_01: but I will be up this winter and we'll get a little Bellagio and I'll get
48:47
SPEAKER_01: a little skiing in as well.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: That's what I like to hear down to the good old Southern tier.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you everybody for hopping on.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: This was, this was fantastic.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Just excellent questions across the board.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And thanks again, Doug, for, for hanging out.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to do it again.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Take care of everybody.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the evening.