Latest / Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing / #135| Why Being a ‘Good Girl’ Is Holding You Back & How To Finally Let Go of People Pleasing to Beat Overwhelm
Transcript
- 0:00Sara Fisk: I was a 40-year-old woman who was still going to church because I was afraid of disappointing my parents.
- 0:10Michelle Gauthier: You're listening to Overwhelmed Working Woman, the podcast that helps you be more calm and more productive by doing less.
- 0:17Michelle Gauthier: I'm your host, Michelle Gauthier, a former Overwhelmed Working Woman and current life coach.
- 0:22Michelle Gauthier: On this show, we unpack the stress and pressure that today's working woman experiences and in each episode you'll get a strategy to bring more calm, ease and relaxation to your life.
- 0:34Michelle Gauthier: Hi, friend, thanks for joining today.
- 0:40Michelle Gauthier: This is going to be a great episode about one of my favorite topics, which is people-pleasing.
- 0:44Michelle Gauthier: Today I'm talking to Sara Fisk, who is the host of the Ex-Good Girl podcast.
- 0:49Michelle Gauthier: I absolutely love the name of that podcast, isn't it great?
- 0:52Michelle Gauthier: Because, basically, if you're a good girl quote-unquote you're sort of forced to be a people-pleaser by society.
- 0:58Michelle Gauthier: Today, when you listen, you're going to learn some new information about people-pleasing why people-pleasing feels so familiar and comfortable, and how that keeps you stuck, how to stop abandoning your own needs.
- 1:12Michelle Gauthier: I think that is such a good way to explain exactly what we do when we people please.
- 1:14Michelle Gauthier: We just abandon what we actually need for what other people want.
- 1:17Michelle Gauthier: And, finally, a simple strategy that's geared toward building the muscle of saying no without the guilt part.
- 1:23Michelle Gauthier: Just a reminder that April is our celebration month for the two-year anniversary of Overwhelmed Working Woman and I am still collecting voice memos from listeners, where you tell me your name and where you're from your favorite part about the podcast and then you ask me a question.
- 1:40Michelle Gauthier: I have received so many great questions so far, but there are so many more that could be asked, so the link is in the show notes.
- 1:47Michelle Gauthier: It's really easy you just click on a button, speak, you have a chance to redo it if you don't like it and then submit it to me.
- 1:54Michelle Gauthier: I would love to hear from you.
- 1:56Michelle Gauthier: Also.
- 1:57Michelle Gauthier: Before we get into the episode, I want to tell you when you listen to this interview, you might notice that my audio is kind of terrible.
- 2:03Michelle Gauthier: Sarah's sounds great, but something was wrong with my microphone and I didn't know it and I did the whole interview and the interview is so good that I didn't want to not use this recording.
- 2:13Michelle Gauthier: So we have edited it to the best of our ability, but if it sounds kind of crappy, that is why I had to really embrace and practice what I preach.
- 2:21Michelle Gauthier: We love to do A plus work, but sometimes we have to do B minus work and just live with that because we got it done.
- 2:28Michelle Gauthier: So I'm putting this podcast into the A plus content but B minus on my audio.
- 2:35Michelle Gauthier: Thanks for hanging in there with me.
- 2:36Michelle Gauthier: Hey, Sara, thanks for joining us today.
- 2:40Michelle Gauthier: Great to have you.
- 2:41Michelle Gauthier: Oh, I'm so glad to be here.
- 2:43Michelle Gauthier: I'm excited to have you because you're an expert on people-pleasing.
- 2:48Michelle Gauthier: We talk about people-pleasing a lot on this podcast One of my favorite topics, because I used to be excellent at it, me too.
- 2:56Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, tell us a little bit about your story and how you were an ex-good girl.
- 3:02Michelle Gauthier: That's the name of your podcast, correct, that's?
- 3:05Sara Fisk: it.
- 3:05Sara Fisk: Yeah, it's the Ex-Good Girl Podcast.
- 3:06Sara Fisk: And here's what's funny is that even before I started doing that podcast, I thought of the name, and the name sounded so scandalous to me it took me a whole year to like really own it.
- 3:23Sara Fisk: That that was what I wanted to name my podcast, which just indicate how deeply I was invested in people thinking I was a good girl, because if I'm going to call myself the ex-good girl, then that means something right.
- 3:37Sara Fisk: It implies something yeah, totally, totally.
- 3:42Michelle Gauthier: Oh my gosh.
- 3:43Michelle Gauthier: Well, tell us how you got here, Like how did you get to be a good girl and how did you get to be an ex good girl?
- 3:51Sara Fisk: Well, all of us.
- 3:52Sara Fisk: If you are socialized as a woman, you are a good girl.
- 4:00Sara Fisk: You have been taught that there are certain rules that you need to follow so that people think you are kind and good and nice and sweet.
- 4:09Sara Fisk: And it's even a little more complex than that because, if you want to get to like how we all become people pleasers if we zoom way out, every single human that comes into this world is utterly dependent on the big people in their lives, and it is a survival technique that every baby is born with that they have to win the care and affection of those bigger, more capable humans, otherwise they die.
- 4:43Sara Fisk: And so babies cry and they see that somebody comes and helps them, and that's the first kind of connection that is made in a baby's brain.
- 4:53Sara Fisk: Is that, oh, I cry and something happens.
- 4:55Sara Fisk: And so they keep doing that and realize, oh, I like this, like snuggle that I get, I like my diaper being changed, I like being fed.
- 5:05Sara Fisk: And then they keep growing and they realize that there are more things that they can do to win more care and affection.
- 5:14Sara Fisk: I have five kids, I think.
- 5:15Sara Fisk: Do you have children as well?
- 5:16Sara Fisk: Yes, I have two kids, okay, so when they were little and they started smiling back at you.
- 5:21Sara Fisk: What did you do?
- 5:23Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, smiled and gave them everything they wanted.
- 5:26Michelle Gauthier: Oh my gosh, they're so cute.
- 5:29Sara Fisk: Right.
- 5:29Sara Fisk: And then they get more hugs and more snuggles, and so that connection is made oh, they like that, they like that.
- 5:35Sara Fisk: And I get a positive response.
- 5:37Sara Fisk: And so baby smiles more and learns to wave and learns to say hi and learns to say mommy and daddy.
- 5:42Sara Fisk: And then they start collecting information on the opposite side of that, which is oh, there are some things I do that they don't like.
- 5:51Sara Fisk: I remember sitting with my daughter on a chair and she was playing around with her hands and kind of testing the limits, and she slapped my face and I grabbed her hand and I pushed her away from my body and I said no, and she could tell by the tone of my voice and how my eyebrows went down and how I, like, physically removed her from me, that I didn't like that.
- 6:13Sara Fisk: And of course she dissolves into tears and cries and cries and cries because she has now been punished for something that she didn't know, she hadn't made the connection yet that that was quote unquote bad.
- 6:25Sara Fisk: And so we grow up collecting all of that information.
- 6:28Sara Fisk: This is what they like, this is what gets me rewarded and this is what they don't like, this is what gets me punished, and for the first part of our life that is appropriate.
- 6:39Sara Fisk: That's what we have to do to ensure that we have the care and affection of those big people.
- 6:47Sara Fisk: The problem is, as we grow, we can take better care of ourselves.
- 6:51Sara Fisk: We become adults, we have our own preferences, we have our own desires that we want for our own lives, but no one ever teaches us how to not people please.
- 7:02Sara Fisk: And that is kind of where I come in, because I was very invested in being liked, in my parents being proud of me in doing the things that would make my community think that I was smart and capable and hopeful, and a lot of this played out for me in my religious organization.
- 7:26Sara Fisk: I was raised in a very conservative religious denomination and leaving was seen as something really bad.
- 7:33Sara Fisk: And so it's.
- 7:36Sara Fisk: I say it kind of is a joke, but it's kind of not a joke.
- 7:39Sara Fisk: I was a 40 year old woman who was still going to church because I was afraid of disappointing my parents.
- 7:45Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, oh, my gosh, and that does not even sound funny to me.
- 7:46Michelle Gauthier: I'm like, oh, and that does not even sound funny to me.
- 7:48Michelle Gauthier: I'm like, oh, absolutely.
- 7:50Michelle Gauthier: I mean, even after all this work, to not be a people pleaser anymore.
- 7:53Michelle Gauthier: If I had to do something, that would definitely make my parents disappointed.
- 7:58Michelle Gauthier: It would still cause me a lot of pain, Like that's the last thing to fall for me, for sure.
- 8:04Sara Fisk: Yeah, for a lot of people, it is because those are the big people that you most depended on.
- 8:10Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
- 8:12Michelle Gauthier: That's so interesting.
- 8:14Michelle Gauthier: Okay, so how do you help people get out of people pleasing, like, what are the tips or strategies that you use to help them stop people pleasing?
- 8:25Sara Fisk: If we boil people pleasing down to its most basic components, they are these: People-pleasing is uncomfortable.
- 8:34Sara Fisk: When I was going to church and listening to things I no longer agreed with giving my time to an organization that I no longer felt aligned with my values, giving my money to an organization that I no longer felt aligned with my values, I felt trapped, I felt stuck, I felt angry, I felt resentful, I felt anxious, I felt fearful, right.
- 8:55Sara Fisk: But those emotions are familiar to me, right, as as women who are taught to people, please, we know all about resentment, please, we know all about resentment.
- 9:11Sara Fisk: We know all about dread, right, and, and fear and anxiety, because those are the emotions that come up when you self abandon over and over and over for other people, but they're comfortable and they're known.
- 9:21Michelle Gauthier: Yes, oh, my gosh, I have to have you pause just for a second.
- 9:24Michelle Gauthier: I love the idea of.
- 9:26Michelle Gauthier: I don't love the idea.
- 9:27Michelle Gauthier: I love the term self-abandoned.
- 9:29Michelle Gauthier: Tell me what you mean by that.
- 9:32Sara Fisk: It's when you want something different than I want and I choose you and I abandon myself without thinking.
- 9:42Michelle Gauthier: Oh my gosh, I'm totally taking that away.
- 9:44Michelle Gauthier: That is such a great term and just way to think about it, I'm going to abandon myself and I'm going to jump on board with you, just leave myself behind my thoughts, my feelings, whatever.
- 9:55Michelle Gauthier: Okay, yeah, that's great.
- 9:58Sara Fisk: And if we have time I want to come back to that because it matters in healthy, connected, loving relationships that we do choose the other person sometimes.
- 10:08Sara Fisk: But there's a specific way to do it where it's not people pleasing and it's not self-abandonment.
- 10:13Sara Fisk: So hopefully we can come back to that.
- 10:15Sara Fisk: But getting back to like boiling people pleasing down to its basic components so people pleasing is uncomfortable, but it's the known discomfort, not people pleasing is also highly uncomfortable because now I'm afraid of what people are going to think of me.
- 10:33Sara Fisk: I am worried about what somebody who is disappointed in me is going to think and feel.
- 10:39Sara Fisk: I am scared in a different, new way.
- 10:44Sara Fisk: But this not people pleasing fear and discomfort and anxiety is actually feeling.
- 10:51Sara Fisk: That is what allows me to have new freedom, new self-awareness, new self-connection and it moves me in the direction of becoming my own sovereign person.
- 11:06Sara Fisk: Mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
- 11:08Sara Fisk: And so when you boil people pleasing down to its basic components, you just say different words and feel different discomfort.
- 11:18Michelle Gauthier: Uh-huh.
- 11:19Michelle Gauthier: Yes, but it's not like one is easy and one is hard.
- 11:22Michelle Gauthier: Like they're both just two different kinds of uncomfortable.
- 11:25Michelle Gauthier: I love that.
- 11:27Sara Fisk: That's right.
- 11:27Michelle Gauthier: I love that, and I think our brain easily confuses discomfort and comfort and thinks that when something feels familiar, that it's comfortable and it's like that comfortable, oh, absolutely, people please.
- 11:40Michelle Gauthier: But it feels so familiar that it's like I don't know, like wearing a really uncomfortable sweater but wearing it every day and being like, oh, oh, I'm just going to put on this sweater, even though it's itchy and I hate it.
- 11:51Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, I know what this sweater feels like.
- 11:54Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, exactly, I know exactly how I'm going to feel all day when I'm wearing this sweater.
- 11:58Michelle Gauthier: That's making me itchy just thinking about it.
- 12:00Michelle Gauthier: Ok, I love that.
- 12:01Michelle Gauthier: Those are great points.
- 12:02Michelle Gauthier: Can we go back to how to self-abandon?
- 12:09Sara Fisk: in a good way.
- 12:09Sara Fisk: The most important feelings for humans are safety, connection and dignity.
- 12:19Sara Fisk: Oh, dignity, we have to have those things, okay, and that's why when you hurt someone's dignity by shaming them, they react in kind of such, you know, volatile ways or they withdraw.
- 12:34Sara Fisk: It's really essential that we feel that we are safe, that we have places where we are connected, where we belong, and that we are worthy of dignity, and so everything we do as humans is to get those things for ourselves safety, connection and dignity.
- 12:51Sara Fisk: So when we think about not people pleasing it can threaten our safety, because, on a very basic kind of tribal emotion, biology programming level, we need to be part of groups, we need to be accepted in communities, in families, in organizations.
- 13:14Sara Fisk: I mean, I have so much sympathy when it felt like I was going to disappoint, sympathy when it felt like I was going to disappoint my parents, it felt like I was going to die, and so many people listening to this can probably identify with that emotion of like wanting to disappoint someone else because that's what's best for me, but not being able to do it because the emotion is just so big, and so I have so much empathy for that.
- 13:39Sara Fisk: And so when we're talking about self-abandoning.
- 13:42Sara Fisk: One of the things that we have to recognize is that we self-abandon so that we can belong in groups, and sometimes that is normal, appropriate, good behavior.
- 13:57Sara Fisk: For example, if I'm in a group of people who are LGBTQ, let's say, I want to abandon my homophobic stances on things so that I can agree, so that I can be safe, so that I can expand my vision of what it's like to have a human experience that's different from my own.
- 14:22Sara Fisk: So this idea of self-abandonment isn't good or bad.
- 14:27Sara Fisk: It just depends on how it feels to you to do it and where you use it as a tool for safety, connection and where you use it as a tool for safety, connection and dignity.
- 14:38Sara Fisk: So if you and I are in a relationship, if you and I are and we want to take our relationship to a place of more connection and safety, I want to know what's important to you and I want you to know what's important to me, and I want to be able to respond to that and reciprocate, because that is what form connected, vulnerable, healthy relationships is.
- 15:06Sara Fisk: I adjust based on what you want and need, and sometimes you adjust based on what I want and need, but here's the difference that is critical.
- 15:16Sara Fisk: If I am adjusting in ways that I don't consciously know where I don't like my reasons for doing it, that's people pleasing.
- 15:31Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, that makes sense.
- 15:32Michelle Gauthier: So, if you're like I'm just thinking, I went to this charity event last weekend and it was a charity that was talking about it was for kids to go after school to this gym to work out, and they were talking about how the parents of those children are often able to give their kids physical safety, food safety, you know, providing them with the right nutrition, food safety, you know, providing them with the right nutrition, all those things.
- 16:01Michelle Gauthier: And I really literally had to like get myself to that place and think I am so lucky that I have never had to worry that my kids aren't going to be safe at home, you know, and so like getting into that mindset and being in the mindset of everybody who was there so that I could like be part of that and support that group.
- 16:19Michelle Gauthier: Is that an example of where I?
- 16:21Michelle Gauthier: It was like a new way of thinking for me, but it wasn't against my beliefs.
- 16:26Michelle Gauthier: It was just like empathy and understanding of a different perspective.
- 16:31Sara Fisk: That's it.
- 16:31Sara Fisk: That's it, and, and sometimes it even can go beyond that.
- 16:37Sara Fisk: Let me give you an example from my personal life.
- 16:40Sara Fisk: So my grandmother was 96 when she passed away almost two years ago, and my daughter is gay.
- 16:50Sara Fisk: And when she came out, one of the things that she asked me is do you think I should tell grandma?
- 16:57Sara Fisk: And I was like, well, let's talk that through, because her ability to understand this, her ability to adjust to it, her ability to kind of make sense of that with her worldview, is limited.
- 17:10Sara Fisk: And also, daughter, you get to be who you want to be and you get to tell whoever you want to tell that you feel safe with.
- 17:19Sara Fisk: And so we investigated her reasons for telling her and for not telling her, and she decided on her own that that was not something that she wanted to share because of her perception of the limitations.
- 17:34Sara Fisk: And so from the outside that might look like people pleasing.
- 17:38Sara Fisk: You're not telling your grandma that you're gay, you're not living your highest, most authentic truth, and I can understand that.
- 17:45Sara Fisk: But the reason that it wasn't people pleasing is because she had made it a conscious exercise to go through her reasons for either sharing that or not and she had made a choice that she was happy with.
- 18:01Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, I think that's great.
- 18:02Michelle Gauthier: That is, it's a big difference, and I think it's a huge a lot of times people can't see the difference between those from the outside, but when it's you, you know it.
- 18:12Michelle Gauthier: I feel like you can tell when you're in alignment with the choices that you're making and, to your point, as long as you know your reasons and you like your reasons, nobody else's opinion matters.
- 18:22Michelle Gauthier: That's where the pleasing doesn't happen.
- 18:24Michelle Gauthier: So if somebody said that's exactly taller, if you're going to be your most authentic self, and she could just be like nope, I'm not going to do it, I like my reasons, they're OK with me and I am willing to stand by my reason, and so not people.
- 18:41Sara Fisk: Pleasing is all about knowing your reasons, liking them and then being willing to feel the uncomfortable emotion of taking the step to not people, please.
- 18:56Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, yes, exactly, I absolutely love it.
- 18:59Michelle Gauthier: Something I talk about a lot, which is sort of like at the end of people pleasing is saying no, but those two are very tied together and I think it really is just a muscle, like when I started going to this gym where I go now, I couldn't do a single pushup.
- 19:14Michelle Gauthier: The other day I did a whole bunch of pushups.
- 19:15Michelle Gauthier: I was like, wow, that was hard but it wasn't impossible.
- 19:18Michelle Gauthier: And that's how I feel about saying no.
- 19:20Michelle Gauthier: I can totally say no now.
- 19:22Michelle Gauthier: Yes, it used to cause me a 10 out of 10 discomfort, and now it's like a zero or maybe a one, depending on the situation.
- 19:29Michelle Gauthier: So for anybody out there who's thinking this all sounds horrible, this is too much.
- 19:34Michelle Gauthier: It's going to be so uncomfortable it will be, that's correct, but it's not going to be forever and always super uncomfortable.
- 19:42Sara Fisk: Let me just give one other little tip there.
- 19:43Sara Fisk: Let me just give one other little tip there.
- 19:45Sara Fisk: All of us know that there are some situations that feel very risky to not people please, and others that feel less risky.
- 19:56Sara Fisk: Start with the less risky situations first, because you're literally building a new emotional muscle.
- 20:05Sara Fisk: None of us are going to walk into the gym and start trying to do bicep curls with a 25 pound weight, right?
- 20:13Sara Fisk: If we're going to just continue this little beautiful exercise metaphor we've got going on here, right, we're going to start with maybe five pounds and we're going to do as many reps as we can until we max out there and then we're going to build and go to 10 and then, to you know, up from there.
- 20:30Sara Fisk: But one of the things that I think gets in people's way is that sometimes they opt to not people please.
- 20:37Sara Fisk: In relationships where there is a lot at stake and it's overwhelming and feels truly terrifying, don't start there.
- 20:45Sara Fisk: Start with.
- 20:46Sara Fisk: This is a favorite example for me to share, because the opinions vary wildly.
- 20:52Sara Fisk: Start with sending food back at a restaurant when you don't like it, right?
- 20:59Sara Fisk: Yeah, for some people that feels wildly terrifying, other people like, no problem.
- 21:04Sara Fisk: But if that's scary for you like.
- 21:07Sara Fisk: Start there.
- 21:07Sara Fisk: Start with somebody you're never going to see again.
- 21:10Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, I love that.
- 21:11Michelle Gauthier: That's so great, great example.
- 21:14Michelle Gauthier: Oh my gosh, I'm sure some people that sounds absolutely terrible.
- 21:19Sara Fisk: Yes, yeah, yeah, so find, find something that feels less terrible.
- 21:24Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, yes, that's great.
- 21:25Michelle Gauthier: Something I say, too, is just realizing that you are people pleasing, or about to people please, or that you're saying yes when you want to say no, it gives you points in the direction of starting to work that muscle, Like just to say, okay, I didn't send my food back and the reason I didn't is because I didn't want the waitress to not like me.
- 21:44Michelle Gauthier: That's exactly it.
- 21:45Michelle Gauthier: You're moving in the right direction, you know that's building really critical awareness.
- 21:52Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
- 21:54Michelle Gauthier: Well, this has been so interesting.
- 21:56Michelle Gauthier: I love your take on people pleasing.
- 21:59Michelle Gauthier: I want to ask you two questions that I ask everybody on the show, just to get your perspective on it.
- 22:04Michelle Gauthier: So what is something you know overwhelms obviously our favorite topic on here.
- 22:06Michelle Gauthier: So what is something you know overwhelms obviously our favorite topic on here.
- 22:08Michelle Gauthier: So what is something that you do when you feel overwhelmed that can make you feel better almost right away?
- 22:15Michelle Gauthier: Slowing down, okay.
- 22:19Sara Fisk: Tell us what that looks like for you.
- 22:20Sara Fisk: When I start to feel overwhelmed, it's like the hamster wheel.
- 22:24Sara Fisk: I just want to go faster and faster and faster, and this actually happened last Saturday.
- 22:25Sara Fisk: I just want to go faster, and faster and faster, and this actually happened last Saturday.
- 22:30Sara Fisk: I had a bunch of projects I wanted to get done for the day.
- 22:33Sara Fisk: They were not going as quickly as I wanted.
- 22:35Sara Fisk: I couldn't get the help that I was wanting, and so I found myself just kind of frantically going from room to room doing a little bit here and a little bit here and a little bit here, and I was like wait, hey, slow down, calm down, slow down.
- 22:49Sara Fisk: And then I laid down on the floor in my just like okay, take a break, slow down.
- 22:57Sara Fisk: And then what's the one thing we're going to do next?
- 23:01Sara Fisk: Then the one thing after that, because my brain really thinks that doing things faster is the way to get out of the overwhelm, and for me it's the opposite.
- 23:11Michelle Gauthier: It just makes me feel extra stressed and extra like I am just going to combust from the inside out Exactly and it just takes your brain offline, almost like you can't even think straight when you're in that speedy mode like that.
- 23:26Michelle Gauthier: I love that that's a great one.
- 23:28Michelle Gauthier: And what is something that you do to save yourself time or do less?
- 23:34Sara Fisk: I order my groceries.
- 23:35Sara Fisk: Oh yes, good one, good one.
- 23:38Sara Fisk: I went back and forth with this.
- 23:39Sara Fisk: I am a penny pincher, I'm a deal favor, and I actually did all the math to like what is it to get it delivered?
- 23:48Sara Fisk: What is it?
- 23:49Sara Fisk: And it's.
- 23:50Sara Fisk: I realized that this is this is a point of privilege that I am able to do this, and I don't want to make it sound like I think that everybody can or should do this, but for me, the amount of time that it takes to get in my car, drive down, do all the shopping it's really worth letting someone else do that for me, even if I just want to sit on the couch and rest.
- 24:13Sara Fisk: I don't love going to the grocery store.
- 24:15Sara Fisk: Some people do.
- 24:15Sara Fisk: Then please, by all means, do it.
- 24:17Sara Fisk: It's not something I love.
- 24:19Sara Fisk: So finding those things that I don't love and offloading them or stopping doing them is that's been a big thing that I've worked on this year.
- 24:28Michelle Gauthier: That's awesome.
- 24:29Michelle Gauthier: I really do think that it saves money too, because you don't buy all the random crap like you make.
- 24:35Michelle Gauthier: That's exactly the meals, you order the things that you actually want, and, yeah, it's much harder to just add some random thing that you're like, oh, I really don't want to eat that, but I'm just going to get these candy bars or whatever it is that you don't really want.
- 24:50Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, I love it.
- 24:52Michelle Gauthier: I love it.
- 24:52Michelle Gauthier: My favorite thing to do.
- 24:53Michelle Gauthier: I do it on Sundays, and my favorite thing to do is put in the grocery order and then I take a nap and then when I wake up the groceries are there.
- 25:01Michelle Gauthier: I'm like I am winning at life.
- 25:03Michelle Gauthier: I just took a nap.
- 25:06Sara Fisk: It's so great, and there's something about not having to go to Costco.
- 25:10Sara Fisk: I just love it.
- 25:13Michelle Gauthier: I just I don't know if it's just stimulating and I don't like it, or either no, there's nothing about that.
- 25:19Michelle Gauthier: I like, and, for people who do like, my ex-husband likes it and he used to always go for us and I was so grateful.
- 25:26Michelle Gauthier: So, yeah, when we got divorced, I was like I'm going to find some new solution.
- 25:30Michelle Gauthier: I cannot do this, and getting married again seemed harder than ordering yes, oh my gosh.
- 25:36Sara Fisk: A hundred percent that Instacart subscription way easier than finding a man who.
- 25:42Michelle Gauthier: Exactly, exactly, oh my gosh.
- 25:45Michelle Gauthier: Okay, so tell people where they can find you.
- 25:48Michelle Gauthier: We didn't mention your podcast.
- 25:49Michelle Gauthier: Tell us that again, and then anything else you'd like to share and I do workshops every month.
- 25:55Sara Fisk: One free workshop every month, one paid workshop, and by paid I mean like $9, super cheap.
- 26:12Sara Fisk: Because I really want women to have the fundamental skills that it takes to not people-please.
- 26:19Sara Fisk: I teach them in those workshops.
- 26:21Sara Fisk: I also have a free Facebook group called Stop People-Pleasing.
- 26:24Sara Fisk: I am in there multiple times a week, coaching, sharing things, making sure that people have the next step, because my like secret world vision for all of us women is that we're just free to make whatever choice we want and that we don't carry around the guilt and the heaviness and the burden of people pleasing anymore.
- 26:48Michelle Gauthier: Yes, love that so much.
- 26:50Michelle Gauthier: So where should people go if they want to know when those classes are, when those go?
- 26:55Sara Fisk: to the best place to find those is actually, and thank you for asking.
- 27:00Sara Fisk: On my Instagram page, seraphist Coaching, there's a link in my bio and you can always find the most recent, best information there about what's coming up.
- 27:11Michelle Gauthier: Okay, okay, awesome, great.
- 27:13Michelle Gauthier: I need to sign up for one.
- 27:14Michelle Gauthier: Those sound great.
- 27:15Michelle Gauthier: I'd love to have you.
- 27:17Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, okay, great, great, well, thank you so much for being on, and here's cheers to not people pleasing anymore.
- 27:24Michelle Gauthier: We did it, thanks.
- 27:26Sara Fisk: Michelle, we did it.
- 27:27Sara Fisk: Thanks, michelle, we did.
- 27:34Michelle Gauthier: Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast.
- 27:36Michelle Gauthier: If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at michellegothiercom.
- 27:42Michelle Gauthier: See you next week.