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EP10 - Are You A Liar? · Oh And One More Thing

0:10
Some old friends facing our fears, laughing through the
0:13
chaos and drinking some beers. So here's to the laughs, the
0:16
crumbs and the cheers. All the awkward moments and
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we're still here 'cause in the end, we're just doing our thing.
0:22
It's our crazy life. 01 more thing one.
0:25
More thing. Welcome to Oh and one more
0:33
thing, a podcast where 2 long time friends try to figure out
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what the heck is going on with this crazy thing called middle
0:38
age. It's a mix of stories of how we
0:40
navigate our lives and maybe some questionable advice.
0:43
Some days we're wise, other days we're just trying to remember
0:46
where the heck we left our phone.
0:47
So join us as we laugh, groan, and maybe even learn a little
0:50
something about surviving in the second-half of life.
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Oh, and one more thing. Hey, I'm Rob and welcome
1:07
everyone to Owen. One more thing.
1:08
Hey, I'm Brian. Hey.
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Brian, how are you? I am great.
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Fantastic. I thought I would open our
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discussion today with a joke. OK.
1:16
Are you laid on me? Here we go.
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So man buys a robot that slaps people when he tells a lie.
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Oh no. He decides to test it on his
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family. At dinner that night, man asks
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his son. Son, what did you do after
1:28
school today? The son replied.
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Oh I just did some homework and the robot slapped the sun.
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The sun said OK, I actually watched a movie with my friends.
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The father asked what movie? The sun said Star Wars episode
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5. Robot slapped the sun.
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The sun stammered away. OK.
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Oh showgirls. The father laughed.
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I would never watch movies like that.
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Robot slapped the dad. The mom laughed.
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He certainly is your son. The robot slapped the mom.
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That's funny, right? She was lying the whole time.
2:00
She was. Have you ever seen that movie
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Liar Liar with Jim Carrey? I have came.
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Out in 1997. Yeah, yeah, great movie.
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Well, for anyone who hasn't seen it, the movie's main character,
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Fletcher Reed, is a pathological liar and lawyer, and he finds
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his career turned upside down when he inexplicably cannot
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physically lie for 24 hours. Yes, yes, hilarious.
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Oh my gosh. 5 So many things happen.
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It's so funny. I was looking clips to the movie
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and I, I wanted to write them in here.
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I didn't know how to write them in, so I just was going to talk
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about them, right? But they're, they're so funny.
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I recommend anybody go watch it. Yes, absolutely.
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Did you ever tell a lie? Ever.
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That's that's a loaded question. Well, yeah.
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So how about a little white line?
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Yeah, I think those those are probably more common.
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I would say probably so, yeah. So what exactly is a white lie?
2:50
Oh well, I'm glad you asked. The white lie is different from
2:54
a serious lie because it's usually well-intentioned,
2:58
doesn't have a serious impact or consequence, and aims to serve
3:02
the receiver more than the liar. A serious lie, on the other
3:05
hand, is malicious and can wreak havoc if the truth is revealed.
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Additionally, the white lie is usually closer to the truth than
3:14
the outright lie, and also more socially.
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Acceptable, yeah. I I think that's the key.
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It's more socially acceptable, right on the situation.
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But yes, that's more common. Right.
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I would think so. Yeah.
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But the history of the term white lie traces back to the
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ancient association humans made between daytime and nighttime.
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Did you know that? I know.
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I know. That's really weird.
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Yeah. Eventually, this contrast
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shaped. Shaped how we equate the color
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white with purity and goodness and the color black back with
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deceit and negativity. Another example is the
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linguistic use of the distinction between black magic
3:52
and white magic. What's the difference?
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Well, in other words, the the white white in white lies
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Harkins back to the old age association with white as
4:00
goodness. But let's be perfectly clear,
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it's nothing to do with. Race.
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No, not. No.
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Not whatsoever. No, No.
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So is it ever appropriate to lie, do you think?
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I think, well, it's hard to say because you know, there are
4:14
situations we want to do that. Yeah, yeah, I I think especially
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when it comes to some family situations that's that's sort of
4:21
your immediate family, but maybe extended family and get invited
4:24
over to that family reunion you're just dying to not go to
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and oh sorry, got kids, got a. I'm dying to go to all my family
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meetings. Not saying our family in
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particular, I'm saying in general or, but you know what I
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mean. Or something from work invites
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you for dinner some night and you're like, that's just
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awkward, but you want to be rude.
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So, you know, you have to, you know, stay home and paint your
4:45
car that night or something. Because I paint my car every
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every week, yes. Something like that.
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So, so why, why do people lie? So we did a little bit of
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research on this. So is it ever appropriate to
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lie? And why do people lie?
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Well, these are some of the questions we are going to try
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and answer in this episode of Oh, and one more thing.
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Are you a liar, Brian? Are you a liar?
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Liar, liar fans on fire. Remember that when you're a kid.
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I do. People lie due to their pleasure
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seeking nature, which drives them to avoid pain and seek
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pleasure. We lie not only for personal
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gain, but also for the benefit of others.
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So there's a psychological theory of lying.
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It suggests that lying explores the cognitive, emotional, and
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behavior aspects of deception, encompassing many different
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motivations and that impacts the lies and on individuals and
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relationships. These theories suggest that
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lying is not a simple act, but a complex behavior influenced by
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various factors, including perceived benefits, social
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contexts, and personality traits.
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Wow, that was a mouthful. That was a lot.
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Let's break that down, yes? All right, so here are some
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theories. So the four factor theory.
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The four factor theory of deception developed by Myron
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Zuckerman explains lying as a complex process involving 4 key
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components, generalized arousal, guilt and emotions, cognitive
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effort, and attempts to control non verbal and verbal clues.
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These factors, when combined, can lead to deceptive cues, even
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when Myers try to hide their deception.
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OK. So that's pretty deep.
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That's pretty deep. Yeah.
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So general arousal, guilt and emotions.
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Yeah, that. So to me, that's the biggest
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reason why I tend not to lie, is the right the guilt.
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The guilt just kills me. Yeah, being Catholic.
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Catholic guilt is a real thing. Catholic guilt is real.
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Yes, it is and and the effort and you know that's what I love
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what some said comes and they get into a whole line episode
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and I for some reason I'm focusing back to a Big Bang
6:40
Theory episode where sure. Where?
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Leonard S Sheldon is to do a little white lie and Sheldon has
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to go down. Yeah, 'cause he's a full back
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story. Yes, it's a full back story.
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And he brings in an actor to play his druggie cousin and just
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it just snowballs into this huge thing.
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And that's how I feel every time I tell like a lie that I think
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that I can't keep under control, like that's going to happen to
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me. 'Cause they they spin out of
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control. Spins out of control.
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Yeah, that just doesn't work for me.
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So another theory is the tripartite theory, and I think I
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said that, right? That sounds right.
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This theory is also known as a theory of lying.
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OK, well that makes sense. And the dishonesty theory
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proposes that lying is determined by a perceived
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benefit, external risk, and internal conflicts.
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It suggests that people lie when they perceive the benefit of
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lying outweighs the potential negative consequences that they
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can can also justify their actions.
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Yeah, I think that's the key is when people think they can
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justify their actions by lying, that the lie is better than the
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truth. Yeah, I know.
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And and I get caught in that sometimes where I think I can, I
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can keep justifying that. And let me just say these are
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little white lies. Yes.
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OK, so yes, big deception lies. No, no, I can't.
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Do that. No, I can't do that.
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You. Can read my face like a book.
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My God. Right.
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I I'm horrible at lying. Yeah, you totally tell.
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Yeah, usually I like giggle uncontrollably too.
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OK, it's weird. I don't like.
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I'm going to look for that. Like, I totally can't keep a
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straight face. Yeah.
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Pathological lines. This concept often explored
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through a bio psychosocial developmental model.
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It's a lot of words. It stands like compulsive and
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often unfounded nature of lying in certain individuals
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potentially linked to personality disorders like
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antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality
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disorder. So I get that.
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I think we all understand what the pathological lying where it
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completely takes over your entire being.
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It's just who you are, right? And I think the first thing that
8:29
comes to mind when I hear that is, remember on Saturday Night
8:32
Live, John Lovitz did a character.
8:34
Yeah, I remember that. His name is Tommy Flanagan.
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Yeah, that's the ticket. Always live.
8:39
Oh my God, funny skit. Right, Yeah.
8:42
So you can obviously tell we're kind of reading these because we
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had to curate this, this content and it's very specific
8:47
information, right. So we're trying to get through
8:50
it without stumbling too badly. So some motivations for lying.
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Oh, by the way, we're not condoning.
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No, we're just giving you the background.
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So then we can talk about it. Motivations.
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Perceived benefit individuals Individuals may lie to gain
9:06
something they desire, such as an as of avoiding punishment,
9:10
gaining sympathy, or manipulating situation.
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Social context Lying can be influenced by social dynamics,
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such as protecting relationships, avoiding
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conflict, and maintaining social standing and also internal
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distress. Some individual may lie as a way
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to cope with personal issues such as low self self esteem or
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anxiety, so that's interesting too.
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And then there's cognitive load. Lying can be mentally demanding,
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requiring the liar to to construct a story, remembering
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details and managing non verbal cues.
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And that's part I would struggle with the most, the cognitive
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load, because yeah, there's no way I'm keeping my story
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together. That that's like The Big Bang
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theory when? Yes, yes, yeah, full story.
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I I can't do that. So some strategies used by
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liars. Again, not us, but some liars.
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Liars may attempt to appear calm and composed, even though the
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though they may be experiencing heightened arousal.
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Liars may construct A detailed story to conceal the truth, and
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some individuals may avoid eye contact as a way to appear less
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trustworthy. So, understanding the
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psychological theories of Lyme provides valuable insights into
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the motivations, strategies and impact of this of deception,
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which can be applied to various contexts including law
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enforcement and interpersonal relationships and mental health.
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So this has nothing to do with the fact that I get flustered
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when I talk in front of people or in a crowd, because I do dart
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my eyes away. I'm not lying, I just have a
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fear of making a contact with you and seeing you seeing into
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my soul. Right, exactly.
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So that's my fear. I'm not lying, I'm just looking
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down right? And I'm kind of fascinated with
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the people that like like law enforcement, especially that can
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to analyze somebody this their, their physical reactions, their
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body language, their, their eyebrow and like, Oh yeah,
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they're lying. And then carry on so they can
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get more out of them. That's amazing skill.
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Fascinating skill. That's stuff I can't do.
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So I got a story that I want to share.
12:01
It's not lying per SE, as much as it is just not offering out
12:08
all the truth. OK, so is that lying?
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Not sure. Let's hear your story first.
12:13
OK, so so when I go to the grocery store, I have a tendency
12:17
to fulfill one of my dirty little secrets, my habits in
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buying a candy bar. OK.
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And I will eat that candy bar as fast as I can in the truck on
12:27
the way home so no one knows. None, none the wiser, right
12:31
Until now. They.
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Listen to Everybody knows, right?
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But so I'll eat that, and mind you, the grocery store is a half
12:38
a mile away from my house, so I must scarf that down as fast as
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I can. What am I going to do with the
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wrapper? What do you do with the wrapper?
12:45
Usually I tuck it in my little garbage can in the truck, right?
12:48
Well, the other day my wife is taking the truck somewhere and
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she looks down and she sees the candy wrapper and she holds it
12:53
up and says next time you probably should hide this a
12:57
little bit better. And I'm like, oh, shoot, so I
13:03
wasn't lying. I just.
13:04
Never told her. I never told her, right.
13:05
So you need to be smarter. But kind of how we do it, we
13:07
just put a little jar in the kitchen that has like single
13:10
like M&M's and like Easter, little Easter egg things and
13:13
just take like two or three at a time.
13:15
It's just. It's just.
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My problem there would I? I wouldn't take two or three.
13:18
Graze. I would graze all day, yeah.
13:21
Yeah, there definitely is some willpower involved in in the
13:24
candy jar, right? Yeah, so is lying ever OK?
13:28
I think in certain situations it can, but I, I I think it depends
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on on kind of what's going on. So while line is generally
13:35
considered wrong, there can be exceptions where it might be
13:38
justifiable, often in situations where line is intended to
13:41
protect someone and prevent harm.
13:43
But I. Get that part?
13:44
Yeah, but I it's crucial to carefully consider the context
13:47
and potential consequences of line before you do it.
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So let's help with some examples of one line might be considered
13:53
acceptable so to protect someone from harm, right?
13:56
So particularly I'm imagining like a loved one.
13:58
If someone is in danger, lying to potential attacker to buy
14:01
time or protect the person in danger might be considered
14:03
justifiable. You'd lie to save me.
14:06
I would absolutely lie to save you.
14:07
Thanks. Absolutely.
14:08
For sure. For sure to ease emotional
14:11
distress. And this one makes a little more
14:13
sense to me. So lying to a person who is
14:15
emotionally fragile or vulnerable, such as a child or
14:17
someone nearing death, might be considered acceptable.
14:20
It prevents them from further harm or distress.
14:22
See, I don't think that's lying. It is lying.
14:26
I can't be clear it's lying. But you're doing it from your
14:30
heart, right? So young children, plug your
14:34
ears. So Santa Claus, Easter Bunny,
14:36
those kinds of things. You think young children are
14:38
listening to this? I'd like to think everybody's.
14:40
Listening to this, Yeah, I don't think they are.
14:44
OK, older children who still believe in Santa Claus and
14:46
Easter Bunny. I mean, that's, that's you're,
14:49
you're lying. I mean, you're basically lying
14:50
to them, so. Oh my gosh, I'm a pathological
14:53
liar. Oh.
14:53
Right for years and years. Years and years, right?
14:56
I lied about all that stuff. I lied about the tooth fairy
15:00
too. I've got the tooth fairy, yeah.
15:02
Do you get caught? No.
15:03
Oh my gosh. I got a story.
15:06
OK, so we always had money out for the tooth fairy under the
15:10
pillow, that whole thing. Well, I had to eventually get in
15:14
the habit of, OK, the tooth came out great.
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Oh my gosh, tooth hears and comes to me.
15:19
Great. I'd have to run upstairs and put
15:21
some change on my sleeping space, my pillow on my pillow.
15:25
So you remembered. So I remembered because there
15:28
were times where we would completely forget and the child,
15:33
our child would wake up and start crying.
15:35
Is the tooth still there? And we had to act fast.
15:39
And so we made-up a story that they're still making their
15:43
rounds. And you notice the windows open
15:45
now. We ran in there, open the
15:46
window. And during that time, the child
15:49
was crying. Yeah, the tooth fairy came.
15:53
Ohh, sneaky ohh and and they bought it every time they.
15:55
Bought it each time which is great and when I say each time
15:58
it's happened more than once. Do do do we think, have they
16:02
heard this story? Before, Yeah, they've heard this
16:04
story. Now there's no surprise.
16:05
Well, they're adults. I understand.
16:07
That OK all right, I'm lying to save someones life.
16:10
Well then I would do that. Yeah, even if it means deceiving
16:13
someone who may not be acting in good faith might be considered
16:15
justifiable in some ethical frameworks.
16:18
Right, makes sense. I would agree.
16:20
So some ethical considerations. Intent.
16:23
OK. The reason behind the lie is
16:24
crucial. Lies that are intended to
16:26
benefit others or prevent harm are generally more justifiable
16:29
than lies that are purely deceptive or malicious
16:32
consequences. Consider the consider the
16:35
potential impact of the lie, both positive and negative.
16:38
If the lie could lead to serious harm or damage trust, it may not
16:40
be justifiable. Makes sense?
16:42
Yes, and that's the one I would guess I would agree with the
16:44
most, I think. And relationship The
16:47
relationship with the person being lied to can also influence
16:49
the decision. In some cases, it might be more
16:51
acceptable to lie to someone you have a less close relationship
16:54
with than somebody you have a close relationship with.
16:57
So to any stranger you see, lie away.
17:01
I have a loved one. I'm gonna.
17:02
Lie every time I see somebody. Right.
17:05
This team walking in the store, oh, you look great today when
17:07
they're wearing like, you know, Birkenstocks.
17:10
I'm I'm lying. Right.
17:14
Yeah, so summary lying can be a complex issue, and whether it's
17:17
ever OK depends on the specific circumstances.
17:19
There may be rare situations where lying is justifiable to
17:21
protect someone or prevent harm. Yeah, I, I would agree.
17:25
You know, for myself, I believe in honesty since lying has never
17:28
gone well for me. You can totally see it on my
17:31
face, like I said before, and my ears will turn red.
17:34
So I depend on being honest or just keeping my mouth shut,
17:37
which you know, is still a trait I'm trying to learn, is keeping
17:41
my mouth shut because I have a tendency to say a little too
17:45
much. I think my problem is like, I
17:47
will like make a joke out of something and not realize that
17:52
it's that it's I'm trying to cover a lie.
17:54
So I make a joke basically. And yeah, that almost makes it
17:57
worse because then they get offended when like, no, that's
18:00
not, that's not what I mean, but.
18:02
You've frequently offended me, Rob.
18:03
Well, that's that's my, that's what I do.
18:06
I know you're just lying to me. Yeah, I'm kidding.
18:09
I know, I know. All right?
18:11
So social norms, relationships. No need to hurt someone just
18:14
because, right? Well, you wouldn't I I wouldn't
18:18
do it intentionally. No, not intentionally, but the
18:21
ones that really drive me nuts are keyboard warriors.
18:23
What do you mean by that? So social media is it's, it's a
18:29
great place to hang out, but it's also a cesspool of humanity
18:32
at times. Well, at times.
18:34
Come on. Not right now.
18:36
We're on social media and I'm not a cesspool.
18:39
I'm not saying all social media, but but you know what I mean?
18:41
It'll feel like you're behind the keyboards and they're like,
18:43
they just the guy. They gotta tell you what they
18:44
think. And here's my opinion then.
18:46
Yeah, man, Just it. We don't need to hear
18:48
everybody's opinion, man. It's it's OK once in awhile.
18:51
OK, but opinions foster a conversation.
18:56
Yes, conversations. Yes.
18:57
Just to be mean and to be little people.
18:59
No, True. Yeah, that's that that.
19:01
And and that's where it's hard to draw that lie.
19:03
It's hard to gather intent from behind the keyboard.
19:07
It's you can't, you can't see the emotional impact of that.
19:10
So that's a challenge, right. The most frequently told lie is
19:14
I'm fine or I'm OK. Yep, OK, I get that.
19:17
I say those. I'd say that all the time.
19:19
So slides often used to avoid making others feel uncomfortable
19:22
or drawing attention to oneself, even when the speaker may be
19:24
experiencing difficulties. Other common lies include those
19:27
about spending habits, enjoying food, or pretending to be
19:30
listening. See the enjoying food part?
19:34
I enjoy a great candy bar without anyone else know.
19:37
Absolutely. And they're pretending to be
19:39
listening. Sorry honey, but I've mastered
19:44
that skill because I'll be not paying attention.
19:48
And then my wife will say, did you even hear me?
19:51
And I'll repeat exactly what she said.
19:54
Doesn't make her feel good, right?
19:55
And I apologize for that. I think those all of us have
19:58
been in a very long term relationship so that that tends
20:01
to happen. Yeah, right.
20:04
The most frequently told lie is I'm fine or I'm OK.
20:08
I'm fine. I'm OK.
20:10
I know, right? Why so?
20:12
Why we all do that? Ever.
20:14
We all do it. We all do that.
20:15
Even when you're exploding inside and you just don't.
20:18
I just don't want to get that out there.
20:20
I don't want to talk about it. It's going to piss you off or so
20:24
I'm fine, right? But the tone makes it worse.
20:28
You know what fine stands for, don't you?
20:29
What does fine stand for? Freaked out, insecure, neurotic,
20:33
emotional. That's great.
20:35
Yeah, it's from a movie. Oh, of course.
20:39
But can you name the movie I? Yes, it's yes.
20:42
We'll come back to that. We'll come back to it.
20:44
It's it's got Wahlberg in it where they're stealing stuff and
20:49
and and. Catch me if you can.
20:50
No, no, not that one. No, it's the magicians.
20:53
No, no, oh, see, somebody is listening to this and they're
20:56
going nuts right now 'cause I can't think of the movie, but
20:58
name of it. But it'll come to me in 10
21:00
minutes, I promise. OK, so.
21:02
Yeah, but you're right. Those are easily told.
21:04
Every day, all day long, Yeah. But yeah, I, I agree mostly.
21:07
I mean, I, I, I, I personally probably use that two or three
21:10
times a week. Yeah, I'm fine when you're truly
21:12
not. When?
21:13
You're truly not. Yeah, Yeah.
21:14
And I think it's more just because you just, you just want
21:16
to get into it. You're not in the mood right
21:17
now. Just to.
21:18
Well, or you're doing it like we said earlier here, You're saying
21:23
that because I don't want to hurt your feelings anymore.
21:25
Yeah, that no, I'm fine. Yeah, because if I go to get
21:29
into it now, you're not going to be fine, right, Right.
21:32
And so I, I don't know that that's a justification or
21:34
anything, but you know, I, I say it and I always have that in the
21:38
back of my mind. It's like either I don't want to
21:39
get into it, or I just don't want to tell you the real
21:42
reason. The Italian Job, I knew it would
21:44
come to me. The Italian Job.
21:45
That's a good movie I like. That movie, Yes, love that
21:48
movie. I'm glad you tied that back
21:50
right. I hate to leave a listener.
21:52
Hanging. Yeah, I know.
21:54
All right, So the I'm fine and I'm OK.
21:56
This lie is often used to avoid making others feel uncomfortable
21:58
or drawing attention to oneself, even when the speaker may be
22:01
experiencing difficulties. Other common lies include those
22:04
about spending habits. OK, I, yeah.
22:07
I completely agree with that. Enjoying food?
22:10
Oh, like the candy bar? Or, you know, if you're a guest
22:14
or somebody invites you over for dinner and they make something
22:16
kind of just hinky and you're like, oh, yeah, that was great.
22:18
And you're like, can we stop at McDonald's on the way home?
22:23
That's never happened to me. Oh, if it did, I don't want to
22:26
know if it was at my house. No, I was never at your house.
22:29
No. You guys make phenomenal food or
22:31
pretending to be listening, right?
22:34
What? What?
22:35
What? No, I I have a tendency to
22:37
pretend to listen, but I we don't have to get into.
22:41
That, Yeah. No, no, I don't think so.
22:42
I think we all do it. Makes milk like schmuck.
22:44
Yeah, that's right. We're listening.
22:47
We're just maybe be daydreaming about the upcoming Timberwolves
22:51
playoff game and not really paying attention what we're
22:52
talking about. Is that why you're drifting?
22:54
No, no, we got 20 minutes. Let's go.
22:59
So, so to round up this topic of lying, here are some of the
23:02
biggest lies in history. And yes, I apologize.
23:05
We're going to read this. Read a lot.
23:07
OK, first one is the Ponzi scheme and this one to me is a
23:09
little interesting because we all hear the term Ponzi scheme
23:11
all the time. Right.
23:13
But do we really even know what it is?
23:14
Yeah, do we really get it? So I hope this explains all
23:17
this. Explains it.
23:17
So the infamous Charles Ponzi, who perpetrated this classic lie
23:21
in the early 20th century, is the namesake of the Ponzi
23:24
scheme. Oh, so it came from person?
23:25
I guess I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't either.
23:27
I I think I did, but I did. It's one of the things we
23:29
probably knew, yeah, but then you just not tip top of mind.
23:32
You wouldn't think of it. Heard it once and forgot about
23:34
it. Yeah, so the schemer attacks
23:37
attracts investors by promising high returns, but instead of
23:40
instead of investing their money, they retain A portion for
23:43
personal use and utilize funds for new investments pay off
23:46
earlier investors. OK, so that's I don't know
23:50
sounds sketchy sounds. Sketchy, right?
23:53
So Bernie Madoff, we all know who him and who he is, right?
23:55
Yes. OK, so he's probably one of the
23:56
most famous. He utilized the Ponzi scheme
23:59
formula to deceive investors out of approximately $50 billion.
24:03
Billion with AB billion. With AB, which he admitted to in
24:06
2008, Madoff scheme persisted for over a decade and I didn't.
24:11
Realize it was a long time. Yeah, it.
24:12
Was. That's a long time.
24:14
While he did invent the Ponzi scheme, he executed it on a
24:17
grander scale make both in terms of the amount of money swindled
24:20
and the duration of the scheme. Typically, Ponzi schemes
24:23
collapse quickly due to the constant need to find new
24:26
investors. However, Madoff he was able to
24:28
sustain the scheme by offering consistent returns exceeding
24:31
10%, which is a lot. Which is adding more people.
24:35
And more adding more people. Yep, irrespective of stock and
24:37
market performance and by enticing clients to reinvest
24:41
their profits. So eventually the scheme
24:43
crumbled under the weight of the increasing redemption requests
24:45
from investors. That is crazy.
24:49
That's crazy. Like we're talking earlier how
24:51
to the pathological liars carry that story, right?
24:56
And continually having to add to the story and all of that.
25:01
That's what's happening here. Yeah, for 10 years, 10 years.
25:03
I know that's a long time of your life to really hold up a
25:06
lot and what's particularly. Shocking was that due to his
25:09
esteem position, he was a former NASDAQ chairman and respected
25:12
like people respected this guy as a financial expert.
25:15
Right. So then why would you question?
25:16
Right. So, but in contrast, Charles
25:18
Ponzi, who the whole scheme was named after, he was a minor
25:21
ex-con when he initiated his scheme.
25:23
So ultimately he made-up a sentence to 150 years in prison
25:26
and passed away at 82 after serving 11 years.
25:30
Wow. So he lived the high life for 10
25:32
years and then died 11 years. I don't know if it's worth it.
25:34
I don't know if it's worth it either, but I don't know.
25:36
He lived the high life for 10 years, so another.
25:41
Biggest lie in history is the tobacco industry.
25:44
Yes. So we all know that, right?
25:46
The cigarette industry is responsible for some of the
25:49
biggest lies ever told. Despite the US Surgeon General's
25:52
1964 report on the dangers of cigarette smoking, manufacturers
25:57
spent decades denying addictive and deadly nature of their
26:01
product. Doctors used to like, subscribe
26:04
or prescribe. Like go smoke.
26:06
Yeah, go, go, go have a heater that'll cure all your ills.
26:08
Yeah, in the magazines, they were like, what makes you feel
26:11
better? But this sick, right?
26:13
Yeah. That's crazy, you know?
26:14
Yeah. And then it would show even ads
26:16
with kids. Hmm.
26:17
With cigarettes. Well, as a kid, tell me you
26:19
never bought candy cigarette. Candy.
26:21
Cigarettes. Yeah.
26:22
Candy like promote smoking, Yeah.
26:25
And especially the ones that they can puff the little powder
26:27
out of them like. Yeah, of course.
26:28
I'm really. I'm really smoking, poof.
26:30
Why wouldn't you do that? Because you wanted to be cool
26:33
like the adult and hold that. I'm holding my fingers to my
26:36
mouth like I'm smoking a cigarette right now.
26:37
You know, it's funny, that kind of tasted good too, so.
26:40
I don't need to chew them up, Sugar.
26:41
Yeah, I know. There, there's another big lie,
26:43
Sugar. Right.
26:44
Oh my gosh. But as recently as 1994, the
26:47
industry absurdly claimed that cigarettes were no more
26:51
addictive than coffee, tea or even Twinkies, Right?
26:55
OK, OK Twinkies I don't think are addictive.
26:58
No, God, no. First of the gross.
26:59
Yeah, well, the truth is that cigarettes are as addictive as
27:05
cocaine, alcohol and opium. Yes, that's crazy.
27:09
I don't put them in the same category.
27:12
And I yeah, I agree. I know the same category, but
27:14
addictive. Yes, I mean I.
27:15
I guess I 'cause I'm not addicted to cigarettes.
27:17
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I, I work with a
27:20
couple guys who smoke on a regular basis and we've been
27:22
pounding them to quit forever and it's just not happening.
27:26
I mean, it's it's a hard habit to crack.
27:28
And they're so expensive now. They're way expensive.
27:30
What's funny? Not funny, but my dad used to be
27:33
like a huge smoker. I mean, like he would 2-3 packs
27:35
a day. Oh, did he?
27:36
Oh, yeah, huge. And then this is back in.
27:39
Where was I? It was back in the early 90s, he
27:42
had a heart attack, OK, and it was due to the smoking and he
27:46
quit cold Turkey. How do you do that?
27:48
I I. Don't know, but he did.
27:50
Cold Turkey. Cold Turkey and I mean it's
27:52
been, we're pushing 30 years now and hasn't had one since.
27:56
My my grandpa used to do that, would smoke 2 packs a day and
28:00
drink 2 pots of coffee. Oh.
28:02
My God. Wow.
28:06
But research consistently showed that nicotine was addictive, but
28:11
cigarette companies continued to deny it.
28:13
Yeah, industry leaders repeatedly denied the health
28:17
risks associated with the 1st and secondhand smoke.
28:21
Today, it is widely accepted that smoking harms nearly every
28:24
organ in the body and leads to cancer, emphysema, heart disease
28:29
and other illnesses. Smoking causes one in five
28:32
deaths in the US, resulting, you know, over 480,000 deaths
28:36
annually. That's crazy.
28:38
That is, that's a lot you'd think we should learn.
28:40
In 1998, the four tobacco companies settled A lawsuit with
28:46
most U.S. states agreeing to pay 206 billion / 25 years to help
28:52
cover the medical costs of smoking related illness.
28:55
And the fact that they could pay 206 billion tells you a lot
28:57
about it does how much money they're making.
28:59
But you know, the, the, the world is changing, as in, I
29:03
think, I don't think smoking is nearly as exciting or, or
29:09
glamorous as it used to be. Now be truth truthful here.
29:13
Back in high school, did you have a smoker's bed?
29:16
To have a smoker's what? Smoker's pit.
29:18
Pit. We called ours the pit.
29:20
Oh, in in high school. In high school?
29:22
No, sorry, I never had high school, No.
29:23
Really. No.
29:24
You graduated five years before, but you didn't have a smoker's
29:27
pit. I guess what let me rephrase, I
29:29
did not know of a smoker. 'S pit.
29:33
You're such a goody 2 shoes. You had my idea.
29:35
I didn't smoke until I left high school.
29:39
Yeah, see, we did. And it's it's there's one
29:41
section where it was in the high school and there was always a
29:44
teacher out there during in between classes.
29:46
That's where if you're 18, you go out and have a smoke at
29:51
school. Funny, the teacher out there was
29:53
always smoking as well. But.
29:54
Right. Yeah.
29:55
And this is and this is this is in the 80s.
29:57
I mean, this is late, the late 80s.
29:58
This is not. I mean, it's not that long ago.
30:00
I'm sorry, but some people may seem like a long time ago.
30:03
That was not that long ago. And.
30:04
And maybe we did. But yeah, no idea.
30:06
It wasn't me, but when I went to school, after school started
30:11
smoking a little bit here and there, and I developed a really
30:13
bad, gross sort of habit, which is when I'd smoke, I'd clear my
30:18
throat and I'd make this weird little clearing of my throat,
30:22
but there's nothing there to clear.
30:24
And it actually became very apparent to my girlfriend, who,
30:27
by the way, is my wife. And she was like, why do you do
30:31
that as these cigarettes? And so, yeah, we both stopped.
30:34
Together. Yeah, it's probably a good call.
30:37
Alright, how about a little? How about a little affair?
30:39
That's always fun, right? Depending on who it's.
30:43
Back in 98, the Clinton Lewinsky affair, that was like all the
30:47
topic right there. Huge.
30:49
Yeah, news broke that President Bill Clinton had an affair with
30:52
the White House intern Monica Lewinsky.
30:54
Clinton publicly denied the allegations, but it was, of
30:57
course he did. Of course.
30:58
Why wouldn't you, right? But it was later revealed that
31:00
he had lied underoath about the affair during a sexual
31:03
harassment lawsuit filed by Paula Jones.
31:06
I remember all that. Yeah, I it was you couldn't miss
31:08
it further like 2 years. That's all that was on.
31:11
Yeah. Jones's lawyer sought to prove
31:13
that Clinton had a pattern of sexual misconduct and found
31:16
Linda Tripp, a former White House secretary who had recorded
31:19
conversations with Lewinsky about the affair.
31:22
Clinton was questioned underoath and denied the relationship, but
31:25
ultimately admitted to it after being subpoenaed.
31:27
So there too, I mean he was telling stories to hold that lie
31:31
for years and even they had proof he still tried to lie
31:34
about it, right? I mean, because of his position,
31:36
he had to I, I'm sure he felt he had to do it.
31:39
Right. But I mean, how do you hold that
31:41
together? I mean, just for that long and
31:43
Oh my gosh, that's the. See, that to me would give me a
31:47
heart attack. Yeah, the stress would be the
31:48
stress. Knock me out.
31:49
Yeah, House representatives impeach Clinton for perjury and
31:52
obstruction of justice, but he was acquitted by the Senate
31:55
despite making high approval ratings.
31:57
Clinton's legacy was tarnished by the scandal.
32:00
Yeah. Absolutely.
32:01
Well, I mean jokes are still made to this day about him and
32:04
her dress. Right, the stain on her.
32:07
Dress, I'm just I'm going to say is the stain on her dress not
32:09
going any farther than that so. And, you know, since we're
32:12
talking about presidents, there's all, of course,
32:15
Watergate. What?
32:16
What President Richard Nixon I am not a crook.
32:21
No. He's not, but that's all we'll
32:23
say. About when you talk about that,
32:24
yeah. Those are some big lies, yeah.
32:26
And the last thing I want to do it as we're on having our
32:28
podcast, having fun, is I don't want to get into politics, even
32:30
talk politics, but the environment that we're currently
32:33
in, it seems that everyone is lying, no matter what side
32:36
you're on, right? It's hard not to talk about
32:38
politics. Yeah.
32:39
But how is that? How do that?
32:40
How do we get to the point where that's now the norm?
32:42
I don't know. It's just like it's, it's
32:44
constantly on the news, it's constantly on the air.
32:46
We have different presidents that come in and out and so they
32:49
all make different changes and, and usually they're trying to
32:51
undo someone's change, somebody else and right, it's so
32:55
annoying. It's so annoying.
32:56
I just like over the years we've just as society, we we just
32:59
swayed so far from the middle. We're either left or right.
33:02
And to me that's just right. Can't we all just get along?
33:06
We can't. I know we can't just.
33:08
Tell little white lies. We'll be fine.
33:11
Have you ever used a lie detector machine?
33:15
No I haven't. Thankfully I have not I'm but
33:18
I'm really curious. I know I would fail.
33:20
I'm fascinated by one. I would love just to just to see
33:23
it in action. Yeah, I I would totally fail
33:25
because I would be so nervous. Yeah, and I saw this on a show
33:29
and I think it's true. I don't really know.
33:31
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the a true lie
33:34
detector test will also vibrate you on on the chair, on your
33:38
butt below What? So, yeah, so it sends a
33:41
vibration where you're sitting so to throw you off your
33:45
balance. And, you know, and it measures
33:46
all these different things. So what the show was talking
33:50
about is when you lie, you tend to flex your sphincter muscle.
33:54
And so it's measuring that. OK sure, that was hilarious to
33:59
me. I wonder if it's true.
34:00
I don't. Know that's true I also wonder
34:01
if it's true if again a movie I think it's Ocean's 11 where the
34:06
tech guy has to has the lie yeah and so they they told him to put
34:10
a thumbtack in his shoe so anytime he's worried when he
34:13
knows he knows he's going to tell a lie he steps down and
34:15
just is like in excruciating the pain excruciating pain but the
34:20
lie detector can't tell because it it makes a baseline where
34:23
it's the. Same.
34:23
Where that is, it's the same. It's the same effect every
34:26
single time, whether it's a truth or a lie, it's showing the
34:28
same thing. So like, they look at him like
34:30
you look like you're just dying right now, but you're telling
34:32
the truth. Yeah, right.
34:34
Yes, I am. Did you ever lie on a job
34:37
application? I have not have you?
34:40
Well, I did once. OK, I didn't get the job.
34:43
What did you lie about? My education.
34:45
Oh. Because I don't.
34:46
Have a bachelor's degree, OK. And so you get turned down so
34:50
many times for applying for jobs.
34:52
I'm like sick and tired of that. I just put it yes, that I had it
34:55
right. Well, I didn't get an interview
34:56
and I didn't. Matter, it didn't matter I so I
34:58
do interview few people, especially in the spring as
35:01
we're hiring and we had somebody recently who applied and part of
35:05
the our job is you, you, you drive a truck, you drive a work
35:07
truck. So you have to have a valid
35:08
license to be able to do that. So we interviewed him and he put
35:11
in the application. Yep, I got a license.
35:13
So shows up for the first day of work.
35:14
And so, well, actually, I got to go take my test.
35:17
Like what? Yeah, I got to take, I got to
35:19
take my test. OK, well, so take the day off,
35:20
go take your test comes back the next day.
35:23
So to pass. Well, yeah, pass, but I don't
35:25
get my license for 90 days now. I guess like what do you mean
35:28
you get it for 90 days? Yeah, he would just take his
35:30
permit test. Ohh no.
35:32
Yeah, so like, Oh yeah, dude, you can't work here.
35:35
Ohh, that that's tough for you 'cause you have to have certain
35:39
things in in order for your job. Yeah, yeah.
35:42
So yeah, that's crazy. Insurance tends to frown upon
35:45
hiring somebody that doesn't have a valid.
35:46
License do they? They do.
35:48
Why can't you just tell them a little white?
35:49
Liar, right. Shocker.
35:50
All right, all right, so to wrap things up, here are some basic
35:53
tips to help out those perpetual liars and what you can do to
35:56
change your ways. That's none of us, by the way,
35:58
but. Not, not a perpetual.
36:00
Perpetual. I'm a perpetual white liar,
36:02
Yeah. There you go.
36:03
No, I'm kidding. Yeah, so #1 understand your
36:05
trigger, pay attention, identify patterns, and explore
36:08
alternatives. #2 reflect on your lies, types of lies, underlying
36:15
reasons, consequences. That's the big one.
36:18
Number three, practice honestly, in honesty in small.
36:21
Ways or big ways or? Big ways.
36:23
Start small, give complete answers, but be tactful.
36:27
Always be honest. Come on.
36:28
Yes #4 set and respect boundaries.
36:32
Rob. Yes, this is my boundary over
36:34
here. It is your boundary, yes.
36:36
Do not cross my line. Learn to say no.
36:39
Rob. Yes.
36:40
No means no. No means no.
36:42
That's a whole new topic. That's a.
36:44
Whole new topic. And it's OK not to share
36:46
everything. See, I just didn't tell you I
36:48
ate the candy bar there. You.
36:49
There you go, I agree. I just didn't share, Didn't
36:51
share. I didn't lie.
36:53
Yes, I just didn't share, Didn't share. #5 Consider the worst
36:57
case scenario. Oh, what is the worst case
36:59
scenario? Challenge your fears long term
37:01
versus short term. Challenge my fears.
37:05
That's always my biggest problem.
37:06
Yeah. Yeah.
37:07
You think you can tackle your fears?
37:09
No, I'm afraid. Yep.
37:10
And then you just. Remember the last podcast about
37:13
being afraid? Plug that in here, right?
37:16
Number six, cultivate self-awareness and mindfulness.
37:21
Pick out the Yogi. Pay attention to your thoughts
37:23
and feelings and try journaling. Yeah, write those lies down and
37:28
get them out of your system. And then you really I feel
37:31
better about. It yeah, I'm not doing that.
37:33
I'd rather start a podcast because.
37:34
Then you would find my journal and read all the lies I wrote
37:36
about you, right? #7 build trust and connection,
37:42
focus on genuine relationships and practice empathy.
37:46
Empathy is hard for some people. Is very hard for some people.
37:48
Yeah, yeah. Genuine relationships I think
37:51
that's not. I don't find it hard to do.
37:53
I don't either. And finally, seek support when
37:56
needed. Talk to a trusted friend or a
37:58
family member. Consider therapy if you need it.
38:01
Don't be a pathological liar. I'll be here for you.
38:05
I want you to sing more, please. Absolutely.
38:08
I think I would do most the singing on this podcast.
38:11
I want you to do. I'm not, I don't think.
38:14
All right. All right, so that's it for
38:15
today, everyone. So thanks for listening.
38:17
We appreciate it. Please be sure to follow us on
38:20
the socials, mainly Facebook and Instagram.
38:22
That'd be. Great.
38:23
And shoot us an e-mail at Oh, and one more thing,
38:25
pod@gmail.com with any comments, show topic ideas.
38:30
We'd be happy to listen. Love to hear from you.
38:32
So are you a liar? I don't think we are.
38:36
We're not liars. No, we try hard not to be a
38:38
liar. So I think we're just trying to
38:40
give everybody a little bit of background about lying and you
38:44
know, you can make your choices. Oh, and one more thing, changing
38:48
a habit takes time and effort. Be patient with yourself and
38:52
don't get discouraged by occasional slip UPS.
38:54
That's right. Bye everyone.
38:55
Bye everyone. Hey, my teacher said real beauty
38:57
is on the inside. That's just something ugly
38:59
people say.