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The Occult Rejects with The Gentleman Occultist · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: What? All?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, we got a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: very special guest. Well there all the special guests on
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: this show, but very excited to have this guy on.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I definitely think we'll have a great talk and might
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: even have them on again in the future. But before
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: we get to that guest, let me announce the other
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: rejects and the special guest we got with us today, Judith.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: We got Judith the Loon. She's back on again with us.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: What is going on? Judith?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: How are you hi?
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: I'm jujitth the Loon.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: You could catch me on YouTube under the Loon and
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: on x as the Loon at the Loon fifty.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And we got my managin. What's going on?
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: So?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: What is that? Boss? Mister ninety three? So okay, what
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: do I do? So? I have a show called Threshold Saints.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I just dropped an episode with CJ from He has
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the fire Blood and blown Ig account, which is like
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: a sort of like a syncretic Buddhist folk sorcery that's
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: his style, but he is a Buddhist, so we had
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: like a total sperg autistic Vaudriana discussion on different Buddhist
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: duties and protectors in just like a very mythological way.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: And obviously the Gray Lodge. Our next Gray Lodge space
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: is February thirteenth, Friday Night, Gnostic mass. It is will
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: is the cause of fire. So we're going to do
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: an exposition on a on of the sun and Gnostic
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: set set not set, sorry, excuse me, not nastic set,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: nastic set. Excuse me, sorry about that because people often
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: conflate them, but they're actually distinct figures. So do you
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: want to check me out? Check me out on a
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: substack So it's threshold Saints. So substack dot com, on
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: ig and Twitter at threshold Saints as well as my
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: personal account at wukonrie Born, wuk and reborn. Thank you guys,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: appreciate it so much.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So I didn't have you always had a substick.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: No, it's it's like a new thing for me because
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the people were like, you need a landing page, and
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: all the millennial podcasters use substack, so it kind of
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: made sense for me, like naturally to do it. Plus
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I do short form writing, so it does. It does
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: kind of make sense, and I'm glad I did it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Oh that's good stuff, nice, very good. And you got
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: special guests with them with us today. I've been on
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: our show before trying to get around here eventually. Well
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: she's here it now, but you know, uh yeah, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: she actually helped me with this guest too. Again. She
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: came across the guests, she said it to me, and
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I tot he fit the show. So, Serena, we got
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Serena Saints and Clay with us today. What is going on? Serena?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: How are you? Please let everybody know where they can
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: find all your amazing work.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on. I am
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Strina Saints. I am a chaos switch occultist Persefanie Dt.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I have a podcast called Beneath the Bloom that Nick
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: has actually been on and Blake's episode is coming out
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: in a few weeks, so please come and subscribe if
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: you want to see our conversation. And I also use
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Forseephanie's mythic Descent as a way to guide people through
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: their own union shadow work. So you can find me
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: on YouTube and Instagram and if you want to see
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: the more chaotic side of me. You can try to
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: find me on TikTok, but I'm mourning you it might
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: not be a good idea. Thank you so much for
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: having me.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: No, that's awesome. Well, thank you for coming on. I
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it. And people, for real, go check out
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: our channel she's had Obviously she's had some good names on.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Me and Blake have been there. No, but for real,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: she's had some guests on that I wish I could
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: get on, So definitely go check out our channel. She
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: came out pretty much hitting the fences already with the guests.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I'm really impressive. And she does look at it a
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: little bit more of an academic sense as well, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I very much upload that, so please go check that
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: stuff out. And then finally, my man Blake, the gentleman
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: o cultist, the guest. Please, sir, let everybody know what
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: your idea is and where they can find all of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: your stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Well, first off, thank you guys so much for having
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  Speaker 5: me on. I've checked out several of your guys' shows
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  Speaker 5: and I've really enjoyed like the program that you guys have.
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  Speaker 5: I'm really honored to be here and hanging out with
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  Speaker 5: you guys. My name is Blake. I'm the Gentleman Occultist.
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  Speaker 5: You can find me on TikTok Instagram. I do have
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: a YouTube channel, The Gentleman Occultist, but currently I only
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: post like my shorts and stuff. Do have plans for
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: long form content eventually, but we're not there just yet.
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: But yeah, that's that's where you can find me.
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  Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, thank you very much. If you didn't mention
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the YouTube, I was gonna mention it. I was going
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to say, I really think you should start adding more
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to it because I did notice yet she just have
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  Speaker 1: a couple of shorts up there.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Good working on that stuff.
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  Speaker 5: It's the baby on the back burner right now. I
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  Speaker 5: need to start growing it.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, YouTube needs more gentlemen and c occultists out there,
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  Speaker 1: so please.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely so.
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  Speaker 1: Uh again, the first question I ask all these people
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: that come on for the occult, which seems to be
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: every guest, Now, what is it that got you into
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: this stuff? Like how did you find yourself being one
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  Speaker 1: day like I'm going to make this my life?
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: Uh yeah, So essentially, I grew up very fundamentalist religious
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  Speaker 5: and so, you know, a strict religious devotion was always
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: something that was, you know, part of my childhood. Interestingly enough, though,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: I had a witch grandmother who you know, was always
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: kind of there in the fringes teaching me spooky things.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: And even though I was I was raised very religious,
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  Speaker 5: I was very fascinated by the things that she was
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: interested in. Specifically, she was into taro. I remember her, like,
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  Speaker 5: you know, giving me tarot readings when I was a kid.
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  Speaker 5: She was into reiki, she was into you know, energy
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  Speaker 5: healing and stuff like that, and she always had a
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  Speaker 5: bag of you know, crystals and stuff, and I was
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  Speaker 5: so fascinated, even though for me, I was always told,
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: you know, this is evil, this is spooky. You know,
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: you can't really go near it. You're gonna let demons
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  Speaker 5: into the house and stuff. And so for me, it
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: was always something that was known but kind of you know,
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  Speaker 5: scary and fascinating at the same time. And when I
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: started to get out of my religious you know, indoctrination,
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: I feel like I started to look more into a
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: variety of different interests and specifically I did get into
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  Speaker 5: Buddhism initially for a long time, it was kind of
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  Speaker 5: my gateway out of fundamentalist Abrahmic religion. And so after
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: you know, learning about you know, the teachings of Buddha,
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: understanding you know, causes of suffering and how to eliminate suffering,
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  Speaker 5: it eventually transcended into I joined the Free Masons shortly
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  Speaker 5: after that, and as a Mason, I learned a lot
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  Speaker 5: more about, you know, kind of the the conflict that
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: we have our aversion to death. And I think death
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  Speaker 5: for me is always something that was very terrifying, especially
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: because coming out of my original faith, I you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: didn't have any concept anymore of like what the afterlife
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  Speaker 5: could possibly be, because you know, you have this thought
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  Speaker 5: in your mind and it, you know, it makes you
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: feel very comfortable for a long period of time, until
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: all of the sudden your beliefs kind of go out
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  Speaker 5: the window, and with that all of the confidence you
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  Speaker 5: have in concepts of the afterlife or where you're going
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  Speaker 5: to go after you die and stuff. And so that
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  Speaker 5: was very terrifying. Honestly, I went through a really bad,
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  Speaker 5: like dark Knight of soul. And the thing about Masonry
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  Speaker 5: specifically too, is they they kind of use the concept
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  Speaker 5: of death and rebirth and memento morii as lessons to
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  Speaker 5: teach you that you should be a little bit more
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: focused on your life currently and how are you going
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  Speaker 5: to live your life to build a legacy. How are
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: you going to use the time you have, because it's
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  Speaker 5: never as long as you think it is, and you
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  Speaker 5: better start working on, you know, doing meaningful things. And
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: so from there it just kind of became I took
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  Speaker 5: some religious anthropology classes in college, I started learning more
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  Speaker 5: about other religions. I started learning about ceremonial magic. I
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: have some a lot of friends that are not only Masons,
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  Speaker 5: but Pelamites as well, who would too Gnostic masses and
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  Speaker 5: stuff like that, and so really it just kind of,
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  Speaker 5: you know, gradually progressed. I think I went down the
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: pagan witch route first, and then you know, started kind
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: of going more into ceremonial stuff, and you know, here
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  Speaker 5: I am. So it's been a very eclectic and interesting journey.
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  Speaker 5: I think a lot of it was more just coming
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  Speaker 5: at things from a scholarly perspective at first, because I
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: was so kind of curious and afraid and wanting to
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  Speaker 5: remove that ignorance in my life because you know, like
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: I said, a lot of this stuff was satanic. For
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: a large part of my life. And so now that
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: I no longer necessarily believe in, you know, these things
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  Speaker 5: being satanic? Well, what is it then? What is it
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: that draws people to this kind of stuff? And and
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: can I find the same similarities in terms of like
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: the miracles or the power that Abrahamic religion has? Can
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: I find those same things in other practices and beliefs?
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  Speaker 5: So I think that was kind of the main call
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  Speaker 5: for me is you know, you think about people that
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: are profits or people that are healers and stuff like that, Well,
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: where does that power come from? And is there you
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: know it is it satanic just because it's someone else
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: doing it and not your belief system that's allowing you
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: to do that? You know what I mean? So Okay, well,
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: now that there's no dogma anymore associated, where does that
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: come from? And where does that all? You know, where
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: does that all lead?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: That's really I really liked what you said that A
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: lot of that stuff I haven't wonderful. My I did
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: have like the same background where you know, I had
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a I guess the occult to kind of witchcraft in
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: my face young but kind of interesting, how like you
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: were saying about like I think, like for me, I
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: think like the fear of hell or even Satan somehow
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: made me want to look into it because I'm like, fuck, like,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: who is this motherfucker this place that's going to get me?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like I think that actually
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: made me interested in it, Like this is you know
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: what I got comment from me? I gotta know what
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: what's up? Right? And I think you're smucking into it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: It's like kind of what brought me into the occult
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: in that sense, like or it made me I guess
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit more interested in looking at that stuff.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: But uh well, and that's that's kind of you know,
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: how how things are, right, the more accult they are.
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, a cult. The definition of a cult just
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: means hidden. It comes from the Latin occultists, and so
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: it just means something that is not like pushed in
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: your face. It's something beneath the surface. And for a
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: lot of fundamentalist religion, anything that isn't part of that
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: same fundamentalist system is a cult. I mean, it's such
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: a broad category. It's such a broad term, and unfortunately
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: because of it's not only exciting because it's hidden, it's
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: also you know, it's it's deemed as other or evil
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: because it's hidden by fundamentalism.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I agree. What did you think about the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: nastic mess?
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: Very eye opening. Honestly, I was ill prepared the first
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: time I went did.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: You did you know the titties were coming to.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: No, no idea.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't know anything. That fucked me up. That fucked
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: me up. I was like, this wasn't on this wasn't
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, right, yeah, yeah, it was like anything else happened.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Oh sweet to God. I was like, oh, anything else happens,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Yeah, I thought. I was like,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh fuck, it's eyes white shut. I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: was like, wow, I actually ended up in that position.
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: It was a very ice white shut moment. Absolutely.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? Yeah?
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: But oh I enjoyed it though, I mean it was, Uh,
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: what's interesting is speaking of like ceremony and stuff like that.
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: I I went with the specific intention of, uh seeing
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: what the ceremony was because I knew that it was
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: similar in some instances to some Masonic ceremony needs. And
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: sure enough, there is a lot of similarity in some
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: of the ritual with the Gnostic Mass that I think
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: was directly taken from Freemasonry.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh for sure not. Yeah, I think this stuff
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: taken even in the initiations in the Oto, there's a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: lot of similarities were to some of the Masonic ones.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So I yeah, yeah, that in the Catholic Church very sorry,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: go ahead, that in the Russian Orthodox Catholic Church is
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: very very uh influential and cray stuff.
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, a lot of ceremonies there as well.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well he does mention that he was, I
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: guess influenced by the Russian Orthodox. That's what he says
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: with the Gnostic Mass. But yeah, I actually thoroughly enjoyed
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it once I got over that whole you knows scare
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a first, Judith, did you Yeah, Judith, did you have
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a child? Did you child? Did you have a child?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: At the for any of the we have to do
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that together. We had to have at some point. No,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: we never did, all right, I mean I used to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: child all the time. At one point, you might ever remember,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I was in a lot of the Gnostic messes. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: was actually pretty into it.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I think we used to miss each other.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I know, yeah, I smile. I'm figured I
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: would have I guess not, but uh, yeah, I do
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: think very important. I think it does show the man
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: crossing the abyss. That's my opinion. So I guess that's
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the whole point of being a magician. But uh yeah,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: so uh, I guess what kind of what stuff are
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: is it that are you into? Like specifically, Like I
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: guess kind of like what are you drawn to the most?
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: Sure? Well, once you kind of start to find a
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: practice that you really enjoy, I think a lot of
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: may occult journey so far has been trying to find
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: where that actual practice is. And you know what that
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: what that repetitive practice is. I think I've dappled in
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: a lot of different things and some of it to
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: some effects, some of it to no effect. And I
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: think that trying to find the the ticket that really
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: resonates with me is where I'm at. I've been practicing
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: a lot in terms of like witchcraft. I think witchcraft
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: is one of my favorite types of practices. Honestly, you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: sigil magic, spell work, things like that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Oh it's funny. I uh, I think it's fun regardless.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I think that stuff, Oh you can get so like
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: arts and gravsy with it.
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh absolutely, it's very arts and craftsy. I'm all
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: about that. Uh, and you know, kind of similar ish
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: to uh Serena. I. I work with Haites and uh
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: specifically UH Cathonic gods because again, you know the concept
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: of memento mori it's it's not only terrifying, but it
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: can be an enormous motivator for your life and and
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: your intentions. And so I kind of use cothonic gods
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: as not only a way to focus that intention, but
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: as a way to you know, kind of really put
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: the momento more concept at the forefront of my mind
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: at all times, because again, nothing will motivate you more
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: than realizing just how short mortal life is and how
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: much you need to really work at what you're trying
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: to accomplish. Uh. So I I instead of you know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: fearing death like I used to, I use it as
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: a motivator and so, you know, working with Cathonic gods,
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: Hades and Anubis and stuff like that kind of help
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: focus that intention.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Nice. Thank you. Did any ofviews have anything you wanted
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to add or anything you wanted to ask?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Sure, I've got a quick one or well, I actually
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: have two. But I think we'll start with Buddhism because
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that makes sense because I know so it makes it. It
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: made sense for you know, Ike Baker, I don't know
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: how familiar are with him, but he also started out
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: in then I'm obviously a Tontic Buddhism. The non Norman
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: kind very different. Obviously there are is overlap, but it's
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: pretty different. But I do think it's interesting because a
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: lot of ocultists either start out in Buddhism to sort
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of like reset the clock, if you want to say
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: it like that, or they end up in Buddhism. So
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I've interviewed Gregory Peters, who studied with nam Kai Norbu
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and Zogchin and then he had like tontric experiences in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Nepal with like goddesses and so he's like a very
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: eclectic Typhonian, but he would consider himself like kind of
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: a dharma bro, as the kids would say on Twitter.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And so I just wanted to know, like, can you
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: get into some of your experiences, Blake, and why that
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: was like important and useful for you to sort of
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I know you touched on it, but just as like
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a conceptual way of thinking it kind of like a
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: beginning of the marga. Maybe you could say, yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, absolutely so for me again, when I came
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: out of fundamentalist religion, I think that it was a
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: very true madic experience for me, and I was I
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: was very much searching for a way to relieve my
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: own suffering, and I had started learning about Buddhism specifically.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: I think Alan Watts was a huge kind of catalyst
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: for me getting over a lot of my trauma. I
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: really dove into Alan Watts lectures. I read a bunch
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: of his books, and then I was listening to podcasts
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: about Buddhism as well. I had a good friend of mine.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: He's not only a Buddhist, but he's a priest at
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: a local Buddhist temple. I went to a couple of
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: his sermons and ceremonies there. He's a pure land Buddhist
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: and I think for me learning the kind of life
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: lessons that the actual Buddha learned. You know, he was
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: a prince, and you know he was a lot of
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: the suffering that is attributed to human life was hidden
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: from him. He didn't understand certain concepts of like aging
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: and illness and death. These were all hidden from him
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: throughout his youth, and it wasn't until he was an
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: adult where he discovered suffering by seeing sick people and
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: seeing old people and seeing dead people, and it was
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: another thing that like rattled him. And this is just
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: you know, in the in the the legend of the Buddha,
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: you know, he left his princely life in order to
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: go out and seek a cure for suffering. And so
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: I think I found a lot of my own kind
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: of journey in the journey of the Buddha, because you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: he was it was a shock to his system. Oh
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: my god, nothing is as I thought it was. I
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: need to go figure out how I'm gonna how I'm
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: gonna get over and heal this. And so I saw
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: a similar journey through the Buddha to kind of chart
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: my course toward healing. And so, you know, not only
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: listening to lectures, but you know, getting into meditation. I
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: think meditation helped a lot. My mind at the time
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: was absolute chaos, and learning meditation and trying to build
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: a meditation practice, especially with other meditators as well. I
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: found some online meditation groups and we would do like
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: zoom meditations together, and so trying to just find a
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: way to bring my mind back into a peaceful state
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: was a big catalyst for healing my my suffering and
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: trying to follow the Buddha's example. And you know, like
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: you said about, you know, a lot of occult is
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: kind of either start or end in Buddhism. I definitely
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: think Buddhism is kind of a gateway because it's the
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: type of practice that is a religion. But it's also
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: not exclusive, because you can be a Christian and be
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: a Buddhist. You can be a Hindu and be a Buddhist.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: You know, it's kind of one of those shared religions
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: where anyone can kind of get into it without having
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: to be like a devotee of a separate denity or something,
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: and so it's very welcoming for people who want to
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: kind of branch out of their religion and learn more about,
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: you know, other Eastern practices that can eventually lead you
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: down in occult path.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much for sharing that. I also
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: think it's interesting you talk about meditation because it's something that,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: like Nick Hammer's Home a lot on the show, I
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: also do on my show and on the show. And
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I think youth is also like very into this mindfulness idea.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So I think we're all in concert when I say,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: like meditation number one, and every occultist that we've had
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: on from David Rankin on has said meditation is their
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: main practice. It might not be their only practice. As
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: you were saying, like, dharma is very flexible in a way,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: like yeah, it would be great if you know people
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: embrace dharma fully, but like, yeah, you're right, it is.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: People can be dharma curious, darmacure and like and try
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: out different sort of aspects of meditation and also darma
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: as a religion, and they can and they can see
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: if like that flavors is right for them. So thank
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you so much for saying that. I also sorry about it. Oh,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask you if you had ever
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: mapped Hades to the Kabbalistic tree and where you would
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: put him if you did, and if you don't, that's okay.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I'm just a Kabala nerd and I like that sort
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: of thing. But you know, it's all fair. So thank
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you so much.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: You're probably gonna hate me, because honestly, the Kabbala is
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: one of my most recent interests in terms of learning
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: about the Kabbala, and unfortunately it's such a major backbone
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: for so many other different types of practices and beliefs
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: that I feel unprepared. Honestly, we just had a couple
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: of lessons from people that are experts in Kabbala, and
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: so I've been fortunate enough to have people in my
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: life who are kabalistic, you know, scholars and experts, and
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: so I'm trying to learn as much as I can
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: from them because I do see so many similarities and
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: how much Kabbala influences other practices that I feel like
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: that is one of my biggest shortcomings as an occultist,
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: is not having enough of a fundamental concept of you know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: the Sepherroth and the you know, the tree of life
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: and stuff like that. I've had it explained a number
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: of times. I understand kind of like the history of Kabbola,
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: but unfortunately I haven't done a lot of work in it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: And that is one of the big kind of focuses
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: right now, is trying to learn more about it, because
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: I would love to be able to have a good,
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: genuine answer for you in that respect, and I know
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: a lot of occultists should probably have a better foundational
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: understanding of Kabbola than I have.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really fair and honest answer. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I actually don't find that like, I don't find there's
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: no deficiency in that at all. It's just like you're
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: just saying exactly where you're at with it, and it's
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: totally fine. And I'll even offer you something just is
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: this is my Spikelau of opinion. I personally think I would.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you feel about like the astrological
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: linkages or the outer three and the something that we
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: often debate about on the show, but I definitely think
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: there's like a Plutonic obviously and death, so that thus
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: dothic connection if you associate Pluto with death. So I'll
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: just offer you that you can you don't have to agree.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: That's totally okay. I'm sure there are people out there
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: that are mad at me for saying that, but that's
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: kind of where I what I think just initially.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: No, I appreciate it, thank you. I mean, I again,
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: and Kabbola and you know, making those correspondences and stuff
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: like that. The more knowledge I can have the better,
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: so I'll absorb it.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think once you get into that stuff, that's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: gonna be a whole rabbit hole. It's going to open
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: up a lot for you. You might even start seeing
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: more stuff be like, wow, the occult symbolism in front
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: of my face is insane. Absolutely yeah No, But I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: mean even for myself, I practiced magic for a while,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: probably about a year before I joined the OTO, and
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: was in the OTO for by like six or eight
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: months before I even forced myself to sell look at
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the Cabala. So, I mean, it wasn't the first thing
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I got into either. I kind of really didn't want to,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: but at one point I was like, I think this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: is going to be a problem actually trying to understand
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: more of this order if I don't get into Cabala.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like, what's the point of me even
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: looking at seven seven seven? You know what I'm saying,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Like it's so cabalistic. So yeah, yeah, yeah, So it
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: was just I finally just gave in and then I
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: was like, wow, I've been missing out. I was like,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: this shit is fucking great. I was like, oh, I
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: can even understand taro better by looking at it on
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the tree. So yeah, it worked out good.
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: That's the thing. It's it's got it, It's got its
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: fingers in so many different occult practices and traditions, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: it you're almost kind of hindered by not having as
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: much of a understanding. And so that's I think that's
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: why I'm trying to focus more on it right now,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: because I want to be able to strengthen other understandings,
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: and so they kind of go hand in hand.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: On SLI, you know, I found it was interesting you
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: both said it. The whole thing about a Buddhist, a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Buddhism being like easy. There was a lot of people
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I knew. I don't know if June Judith, I don't
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: know if you remember told Mike he was a Buddhist.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that was kind of like how he
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: was able to like kind of get and get involved
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: into the OTO, and then when he left the OTO,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: he just went back to Buddhism. And and I think
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: funny how if you look at uh was a god.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Anton LaVey's daughter and her husband that went over to
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the temple is Set. When they left, they converted to Buddhists, and.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Her they did, she did like a five year retreat
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: actually a karma Kagu karma. Yeah, they're big, like they're like, well, respec.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah they are actually, yes, they Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And Nicholas Shruk is in it too, like I don't
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: know his how much he's in it, Like she's really
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: in it. Yeah he I don't know how much he's
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: in I've never spoken to him, but like he's he
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: seems in it if you follow his Instagram.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I thought about actually trying to get them on,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, it might be too.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: We're incredibly interesting.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I just don't know what the type of ship I'll
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: deal with, you know, God, you must be like just
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: be a Satanist now some shit. I don't know.
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: That would be That would be very interesting.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just because unfortunately the show does teeter
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like halfway into the conspiracy world. Like I'm friends with
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: some of those people, so you know, I'm already pushing
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: it talking about the occult. You know, it's not Old Dixon.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Demons is a problem with that. So yeah, having them on,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sure i'd be like I ended up on the
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: William Ramsey Show a couple of months from now. Tin's like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you just said that.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: No, it's fine, I understand get it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I totally get it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: We we ride the polarities right on the show, and
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: it's all about right, so everybody gets it. You know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: if you're in a call podcaster, there's like it's unfortunate.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: But there's like a limit to how much you can
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: actually discuss in public. And I don't just mean like
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: secret knowledge or anything like that. I just mean you
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: have to there's a just level of discernment needed to
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: like discuss things because people can take it in any
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: way and you don't necessarily want them to take it
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: in that way, but you might also want to discuss
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: like form my episode with CJ, we discussed like mythological
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: things like Tibetans used to believe that they were demon worshippers.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: That's how Tibetans would describe themselves. So we have to
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: discuss those things. But that doesn't mean that I'm saying
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: for people to go worship demon. So that's I'm just
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: using that as an example. But I you know, it's
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: it's so hard, it's like you really it's a fine line.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: So I totally get it. Sorry about that well.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: And demon in other cultures is different from demon in
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: you know, Christian cultures. They we use similar language, but
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: they all mean different things. And in some instances demon
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: means evil and in some instances dem and just means
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: another type of spirit.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: You know, so are they even dame on completely different
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: at that point? You know that was like Plotina's had
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: his name on up here to somebody so they could
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: see if he was a good person or bars. You
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, so it's like that's yeah,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: so who knows. Uh, yeah, sorry about that. Rant. I
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: don't know. I was going to ask you something. Oh,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: did Sharmin or Julia did the interviews before I keep
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: going forward, just not putting you on the spot, did anyviews,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: have any questions or anything you wanted to say?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I did have something I kind of wanted to mention.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: So I know that you said that you're you grew
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: up fundamentalist and that like anything that was outside of
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: your Christian upbringing was satanic. And I'm curious what your
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: opinion is if it wasn't so polarized, if you weren't
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: raised so polarized, like this is what is good and
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: everything else is satanic. But I'm just like been kind
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: of sitting with the concept of if in some of
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: the Christian upbringing, if they allow more multiple truths, then
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: would people be able to stay Christian longer? I guess,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: you know, or be able to take in more information
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: because equating like Buddhism to being satanic or being inherently bad.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: I think that if I does that make sense. I
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: don't know exactly what I'm asking, but I just feel
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: like it sounds like you were raised super, super polarized.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And maybe if it wasn't so polarized, do you think
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: that you might have been able to stay Christian or
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: taken more information? But is the fact that it was
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: so structured? What kind of cracked your you deconstructing from Christianity?
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: Wow, so I think it's kind of twofold. The methods
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: of indoctrination and fundamentalist religion are not for the benefit
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: of the person who it's affecting. So it's not for
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: my benefit. I'm not benefiting from the indoctrination. The structure
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: is benefiting from my indoctrination. So the reason fundamentalism exists
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: is because it needs to circumvent any other type of
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: thought process that you have which allows you to think
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: anything is other than what the structure wants you to
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: believe it is. And whether or not that is intentional,
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: or whether or not that is just as a byproduct
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: of the structure existing itself, I don't really know. I
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: think a lot of it is intentional. I think a
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: lot of it is a structure built around complete obedience.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: And so the way that things are kind of labeled
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: as this is good because this is what we believe,
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: and this is evil because this is outside of what
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: we believe. That doesn't benefit anyone. And I think, honestly,
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: if you're a person, it depends on how long you're
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: going to survive in that fundamentalist mindset. If you're a
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: person who has a mind that eventually leads you to
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: asking too many questions and coming out of it, I
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: think you're going to have a visceral negative reaction to
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: it when you come out, which is what happened to me.
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: I had a visceral negative reaction to Abrahamic religion because
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: of coming out of the fundamentalist aspect of it. I
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: abhort it. I didn't want to be a part of
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: it whatsoever. And so I think in that instance, the
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: fundamentalist aspect, as long as you're in it, you feel great,
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: But the second you're out of it. It feels like
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: a stab in the back, and you don't want to
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: feel that stab in the back. And so if it
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: was a little bit more open to other concepts, I
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: think people would probably stay Christian longer because it's not
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: like you have this hoodwink that is being revealed all
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: of the sudden. It's kind of like, hey, yeah, you can,
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: you can be a Christian and you know, learn about
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: these other other things. Especially too, when I started learning
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: about the concept of Christian ceremonial magic, I was, you know,
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: like they've been practicing this since, you know, before the
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: fifteen hundreds, Yet all of the sudden it's it's satanic
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: to you know, do spells in the name of Jesus Christ.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: It's satanic to you know, you know, have these, you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: to do ceremonial magic in a Christian sense, Like who's
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: whose decision is it?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: That that's evil? And so I think if if it
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: was a little bit more open to allowing people to
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: kind of experiment more, it wouldn't necessarily push people away
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: from fundamentalist religion. I think it would be more inclusive.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: I think people would be more comfortable with experimenting and it,
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: you know, as long as it's something that you're genuinely
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: interested in. If the only reason you're interested in it
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: is because you've been told your whole life that this
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: is the only thing you're allowed to be interested in,
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: then you're going to realize that if that's not true,
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: then what else am I being lied to about? So
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: the whole thing ends up becoming a big lie I
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: guess I would rather have learned about. And the thing
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: that is so wild about studying more about the occult
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: in general is so much of it is also influenced
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: by Abramic religion. And you know, if you go into,
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: like if you're a person who is interested in Abramic
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: religions and you get into you know, solemnnic magic and
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: stuff like that, that's very influenced by Abramic faith. If
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: you think about even you know, kabbala and stuff like that,
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: that's Jewish mysticism that has been you know, kind of
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: converted over time. And so if you were allowed to
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: study those things, I think it would make it much
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: more impactful of a practice. Instead of saying oh no, no, no, no,
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: the second you say magic, the second you grab a crystal,
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: now it's Satanic, you know, you know, and I think
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: that's where, you know, learning more about Buddhism and stuff.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: When I was practicing Buddhism, I was like, what what
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: is evil about this? Like I genuinely can't figure out
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: what about this is evil? Why am I always being
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: told that stuff like this is? And so it becomes
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: you know, you start to see the man behind the curtain.
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: And I think it would be better if organized religions
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: allowed for people to kind of experiment more because the
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: second you come out of it, you have this negative
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: reaction and it just steers you in an entirely different direction.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting that you're just saying, well,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: for one, I think that I think it was great,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: a great answer, thank you very much. And I could
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: totally see how like even for myself, and I've even
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: said this about where I'm at, North Carolina is supposed
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to be one of the biggest, the biggest is the
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: biggest state for I think witchcraft of the witchy community,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and I do think it's also because of how extreme
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: religious they can also be. So I think it's like
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: kind of like a snapback, you know, like a pushback
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to it. But the thing where you're talking about Hebrew,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: you know, the Abrahamic religions. They're also the most prevalent
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: when it comes to occult symbolism and probably influencers in
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the in the occult world. Like even for myself from
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: being in the Oto or ceremonial magic order, most of
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the oldest symbolism that I would see on anything would
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: be from a combination of all those, probably even in
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: some of them. Not that I'm going to get into it,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and Judith, you know, I'm not asking you to say anything,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: but even looking at the initiations and certain things done
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: in there, knowing the setting and some of the symbolism
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: in there, you will actually see Hebrew, Christian, Catholic, and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Islam actually in a sense. So I do find that interesting.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Even that mean the Masons even to use them as
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: an example about the Shriners to use Islamic symbolism, you
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: will see. I think the three Abrahamic religions are like
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: kind of the top dogs when it comes to like
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: a cult symbolism. I think in a sense or like
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: there their views of the of it and orders. I mean,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: even when you start getting at it, like if you
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: want to start looking at alchemists, I mean that basically
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: came out of Islam. I mean the earliest alchemists that
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you go back and look at, most of them are
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Rolls Louming, you know. And you were even talking about
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I think like the Buddhism having like some story of
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a prince. They got one prince Holly Yali or whatever,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: same story he was a prince and gave it up
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and became like this, you know, mess or alchemist, you know.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So I mean even they even got the same kind
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: of like crossover stories and shit. I even think the
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: father of chemistry was a It was an Islamic alchemist.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I forgot his name. I covered him. So it's just
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it is interesting how you will my opinion, you know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: even the Catholic Church a cult as fuck, you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: so you all three of them, it's you know, I
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: probably a cult in my opinion.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: But it was a great question. I just want to
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: say that, Serena, that was a really good question because
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I think like for me, like I take it more
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: like I think like did a great answer for that.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: But I I just feel like I take it as
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: dualism as the poison. It's not the religion or the name.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Like I don't I don't really care what other people
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: believe because I can't really control it personally, right, Like
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: my own Like this is very cubalistic, Like I it's
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: my own sphere of influence, my own malkouth is only myself.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: So you know what, how much can I extend beyond that?
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I can't control what anyone thinks. But I also think,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: like that's a fundamental question, like if Christianity or any
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: of the major face were more flexible, I guess maybe
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: a good word to other kinds of paths or other
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: kinds of maybe they just need to be more esoteric.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I think that's the case that we've made on this show.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: A lot is like it's all there, but it's so decoherent,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it's not really it's not codified properly, or it's codified
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: for people that are in the quote unquote inner or
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: secret temple, and so it's very inaccessible to like the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: mass congregation. And this is like for all religions, and
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: this is actually for a lot of secret societies as well.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm not criticizing them, like I'm cool with a
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: lot of people from Temple have said and Golden Down
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and all of that. Like I've spoken to all of
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: those people. But I just think like a lot of
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: this systematization is actually lost. I'm not saying it's completely lost,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: but I'm saying that I think that people are actually
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: putting it back together. I think that's what podcasting in
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: their occult space is a lot of what actually people
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: are doing is they're trying to piece things back together.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Be in dialogue with people, be relational with people, even
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: if you don't agree, and that's actually can be really
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: generative and positive to not to disagree on things because
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: you can sort of decide what you want to believe.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Sorry, I didn't mean to go on
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: a round, but I just want to say that was
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: a great question, and I saw something that I often
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: think about as like a quote unquote sorcer or whatever.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I am so.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Well that is because I do think that it is
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the reason for people to go and go the other direction.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, uh well, if I can, if I can respond,
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: I think I agree with you about the dualism part
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: specifically too, because I think that dualism is an important
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: building block, like if we look at you know, like Taoism,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Yin and Young like it's it's an important building block,
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: but I don't think it's as a strong enough structure
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: to really build a lot of things off of. And
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I think that it can be helpful, but when we
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: only look through things through a dualistic lens and not
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: be able to hold multiple truths, I think that you know,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: things will crack because it's not that simple, and our
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: existence isn't that simple. Life isn't that simple, and when
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: we try to oversimplify it. While I think that that's
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: kind of why so many people are leading organized religion,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: and I do think that like structure is needed. And
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: as someone who grew up in organized religion, I missed
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: the community of it. I miss some of the like
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: I missed some of the aspects of it. And I
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: do see that there's like a lot of eclectic practices
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: these days, and I kind of miss the community aspect
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: from a lot of this stuff and a little bit
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: of the structure, like being able to go somewhere where
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I can go and worship, Like I don't really have that,
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: And so I'm trying to like think of, like, oh,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: how can we take all the best parts of organized
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: religion and then all the beautiful parts of like finding
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: your own eclectic practice and trying to marry them. And
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I feel like one of the truths that I've recently
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: come up to is like dualism is kind of ruining
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: organized religion, and I wish it was a little bit
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: more flexible. I guess.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: That was another great answer. And I'm very Buddhists actually,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: because we only we believe that most things are relatively
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: true and there's only one primordial truth. So I just think, wow,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: that's kind of a that's a very interesting framing stream.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: I co sign whatever you want to call it.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Nice Did anybody else have anything before I continue?
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: Based on what Serena said in regard to you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: how do you marry these ideas? I think that's you know,
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: structure is great, and in terms of you know, someone
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: who is a fan of ritual, I can get very
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: ocd when it comes to ritual. And so I'm not
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: saying that, you know, we shouldn't have structure and things
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: like that. I think it's when those things are excluded
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: from other practices. And you know, there's a lot of
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: syncretism in occultism. There's a lot of syncretism in paganism,
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: and that's fine. Syncretism has always existed in paganism and
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: in occultism and stuff like that, and you know, it
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: shouldn't just be like throw every you know, throw everything
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: in with the kitchen sink and just you know, oh,
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: it's all gonna work. But yeah, I think, you know,
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: the great thing that I remember about going to church
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: was that feeling you get of community, that feeling you
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: get of when you genuinely feel like you're worshiping. It
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: gives you like a high. It gives you this euphoric experience,
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: and that's what organized religion is supposed to elicit. You
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: get this. I'm struggling to remember what the actual term is,
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: but it's the same experience you get if you go
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: to music festivals and stuff like that. There's this collective
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: hw you get when you're doing something joyous together with
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: other people. And so you know, I definitely wouldn't say
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: I found that in occultism necessarily. I think a lot
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: of occult practice, for the most part, is going to
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: be very solitary, unless you join a really strong mystery
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: cult or something like that that allows you to practice together.
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: But it's you know, probably still not going to be
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: like jumping in the air and singing and stuff like that.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: So when you did mention ritual stuff like that, I
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: also thought I was going to ask you a little
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: bit about when it comes to those types of practices,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: what is it that like, Like I don't know, like
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: eve into the lesser banishing ritual, the pentagram, the hextagram, Like,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like when you say that, what is
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a ritual? Like what kind of ritual experience do you have?
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: What I'm saying, Yeah, LBRP headless or less stuff like that, right.
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: I think ritual for me, especially coming from a Masonic background,
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: I really enjoy structured ritual and I enjoy the concept
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: of being able to learn something that you can continue
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: to perfect because I you know, just you know. And
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: it's kind of a contradiction when it comes to like
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: spell work, where spell work can end up being very
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: much intuition and even though there are specific spells that
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: you do, it's I would separate spell work from ritual work,
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: and you know, because there's definitely a separate component to it.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: And I think at the beginning too, I was a
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: verse to some certain ceremonial magic because again that snapback
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: effect of having an aversion to Abramic religion. When you're
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: doing something like the LBRP, you're invoking a lot of
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: Biblical angels, you know what I mean. And if you're
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: a person who's you know, against Abramic religion and then
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden you're doing a ceremony that has
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: to do with ties to the Abramic faith, it almost
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: feels like, you know, you feel like it's it's you're
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: you're kind of getting your own self pushback from it
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: because you don't want it to be associated with that anymore. So,
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: you know, trying to find other rituals as well that
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: are not based on you know, Holy Guardian angels and
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: stuff like that, or you know, uh Abramic influences, whether
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: it's you know, demons or angels or deities and stuff
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: like that. Definitely still looking for more of those.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Nice, nice good if you want to.
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: I did have an inquiry, but it's more on the
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: your your your mystery school and how you came about
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: to develop it, because you said you didn't have much
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: you're learning about the Kabbala now so and you have
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: a you have a wigan I believe, or a more
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: pagan background and Buddhist so I'm on how you came
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: up about developing it without the Kabala being part of it.
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, you're You're absolutely correct. And the great thing
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: about the program so far is that I am one
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: of those people who I will never claim to be
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: the smartest person in the room. The benefit that I
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: have is being able to find people that are also
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: very smart and being able to cultivate knowledge from other people.
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: And so luckily, you know, I have a lot of connections.
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: I have a lot of friends in my pocket that
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: are like PhDs and stuff like that. And so when
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: I started developing this idea of building kind of like
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: a modern day mystery school, I reached out to a
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: number of those people because they are also people that
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: I would consider interested in the occult or are experimenters themselves,
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: titioners themselves, And so for me, it was kind of
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: a how do we build something that allows people to
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: come together to kind of shed dogma, to shed fear
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: and shame and learn together as a collective where it's
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: very open ended, but we can have people a part
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: of it who are able to kind of pick up
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: different corners at the same time. You know, I know
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: where my corner is and I know what side of
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: this school that I can hold up, But how do
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: I find someone else who is a Kabbalist who can
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: hold up that corner of the school. And you know,
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: are there other witches out there who want to help
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: hold up other corners? And so for me, the Mystery
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: school it is. It started as a very nascent idea,
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: but it rapidly started growing and right now we have
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: just under like eight hundred p people that are involved,
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: which is really exciting because the discussion when you get
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: that many people involved, is very diverse. And so I
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: think having that diverseness of clientele is great because again
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: we have Coblists, we have we have Satanists, we have
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: you know which is we have Pagans, we have coblists,
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: we have ceremonial magicians, tarot readers, astrologers, you know. And
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: so the good thing about having a mystery school like
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: that is I don't have to be the know all
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: be all. I can bring people together and let them
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: flex their strengths. And that allows them people who are
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: probably really well skilled but probably haven't ever taught anything, Well,
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: now is your time. You know, you can't you don't
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: really know what you know? Well, unless you're able to
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: teach it to someone else. And so I think that
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: it gives people who may be aversed initially to kind
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: of pushing themselves in that direction a place to do
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: it where they are safe and where other people can
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: kind of learn and we can all work together as
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: we go. So yeah, that's exactly the reason why I
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: brought my good friend on who is a cobl list
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: because I was like, you know what, we need to
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: have something in here to to really you know, make
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: this a bedrock foundation. And and they are working on
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: their own course as well. They're going to be developing
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: their own courses which will be available in due time.
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: So it's all it all, you know, we're getting there.
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: It's it's a slow but exciting process.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: What kind of stuff? Uh, what are be some of
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: the things you do have on this? Say? Well, what
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: made you even like yeah, give us the whole? If
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you don't buy, maybe even give us the whole? Like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: you know, what did you come up with this idea?
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: What is it that you're looking to do that?
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: Oh man? So I uh had a very interesting conversation.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: I am I've been a closet practitioner for for a
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: large part of my post religious life. Uh, primarily because
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: again I was raised fundamentally and so all of my
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: family are fundamentalists, and so I've had to hide a
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: lot of things from them. And so you know, whenever
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: people come visit, you know, oh, time to cover up
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: the altar, time to cover up all my supplies, get
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: rid of these symbols, take those off the wall. And
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: so it was something that I constantly felt like I
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: wasn't living my authentic self. I was always in the
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: broom closet, so to speak. And so I had a
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: very interesting conversation with my religious grandma, not my witch grandma.
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: My my witch grandma passed away unfortunately a while back,
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: but my fundamentalist grandmother gave me a call and told
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: me that she was very upset because the rapture was
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: coming soon and she was sad that I wasn't going
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: to be going with her. She was you know, her
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: and all the rest of my family were going to
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: leave and I was going to be left behind. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: so it was kind of in that moment where I
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: kind of realized, like what am I even hiding myself from,
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: Like my my family already thinks I'm going to go
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: to hell. Why am I trying to pretend like I'm
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: still this, you know, good Christian boy. And it kind
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: of like shook me in this way where I was like,
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: you know what, if they already think I'm going to
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: go to hell, why don't I just like full on,
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: full send, be my true authentic self and do something
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: about it. And so so I've always wanted to build
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: a community of occultists. I think that the occult is
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: something that really started this new chapter in my life,
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: and I wanted to be able to share that with
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: other people, especially people who were going through the same
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: fundamentalist deconstruction that I was going through. I think that
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: the process of learning the occult was very pivotal in
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: my healing journey, and I think that it can be
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: a way that not only heals other people of their fundamentalism.
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: I think occultism honestly is something that can save society.
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: I think that our culture in general is very much
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: leaning towards this structured, you know, Christo dominant society, and
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: it's leading us down a path that I think is
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: very negative. I think the concept of belief in the
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: rapture is very damaging, not only to your your psyche,
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: but also to society because if you think that the
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: planet is a temporary existence that we can just use
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: and destroy and then we're all gonna you know, we're
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: all gonna be shipped off to heaven or and the
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: rest of us are going to burn in hell. The
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: concept is so damaging because long term thinking goes away,
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: stewardship of the planet goes away, and we should be
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: people who like, look after our society, our planet. We shouldn't.
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: We should be thinking long term and occultism and other
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: religions allow for more long term thinking, and unfortunately there's
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: too many people in positions of power that don't have
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: that same long term thinking. I'm going on a very
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: long winded, uh you know, kind of kind of conversation
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: right here. But all that to say, a cultism is
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: going to help society heal and grow, And how are
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: we going to do that if we don't start building
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: things that allow people to learn it in a safe
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: way where they can remove dogma, where they can remove
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: shame and fear and.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Be more.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Geared towards welcoming other people and learning more. You know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: Paganism especially too, Paganism is all about respect for nature,
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: It's about respect for you know, sanctity of life. And
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: I think if anyone started studying more about paganism and
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: looked at our connection with the earth and stuff like that,
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: we wouldn't see life and the planet as just this temporary,
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: uh frivolous material that we can abuse while we you know,
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: fuck off to heaven and I apologize on a cussing
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: is loud here, you know that we can just you know,
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: screw and you know, we go off to heaven and
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: everything else gets left behind. We should be cultivating a
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: society that allows for us to flourish in the future,
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: and I don't think that the modern religious mindset is
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: leading us in that direction. So how do we combat
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: that with a cult you know, study with a cult
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: structure to kind of counterbalance that, I guess is where
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: I started coming up with the idea of the Mystery School.
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: Getting back to the actual question that was asked.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Nice, thank you, sir, Thank you. I know, like me
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and you were talking earlier, uh just chit chatting a
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: little bit, and uh you I had said, I've said
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: it on the show multiple times here and there, and
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I think you kind of have a same feeling, do
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you think like we're going to maybe possibly have I
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: think we have a chance, a really good chance of
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: almost having some of the kind of like type of
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: a cult renaissance, you know, coming you said, you kind
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: of feel the same way.
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: You think it's starting to become something that's being a
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: little bit more accepted, to be able to look at
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: be looked at now than it was per se even
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: twenty thirty years ago.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: I genuinely do. And there's a lot of people online
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: who are talking about what the new Renaissance looks like
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: if you look back at history. I'm a big believer
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: in life being this kind of cyclical pattern. Right, Everything
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: is cyclical. There's times and seasons and they change. And
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: even though you know we live in the twenty first century,
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: we still reflect the same structure that happened in the
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: fifteenth century. So if you look at things in a cycle,
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: what was happening prior to what we would consider the renaissance, right,
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: What was happening prior to that. There was political upheaval,
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: there was religious up people, there was deconstruction happening. People
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: were learning more, people were finding ancient occult books and
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: translating them into their modern languages.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Was a huge thing.
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, scholarship in that time, you know, discovering hermetic texts.
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: There were thousands of hermetic texts that were found and
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: translated into the modern language, and so it was a
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: flourishing of ideas being based off of a refinding of
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: ancient knowledge that was lost during the Dark Ages. So
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: you have all of this knowledge that happened, you know,
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: around let's you know, let's say the turn of the millennia,
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: and then you have, you know, all of this knowledge
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: that was developed and written about thousands of hermetic texts
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: and stuff like that. Then you go through this fundamentalist
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: period of time where you have the Dark Ages, you
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: have the inquisitions and stuff like that, and then you know,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: once what it was the actual term I'm looking for
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: when when you know secular secular, Like there was a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: secular revival that decided to kind of push away religion
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: for a little bit to learn more about the self.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: And we started developing, you know, tools, and we started
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: developing science. And so if you look at that pattern
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: of you know, you have this renaissance, a dark age,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: a renaissance, a dark age. We're at the tail end
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: of what I think the next dark Age has been
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: And even though I say dark age, yeah, we had
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: an explosion of technology, We've had an explosion of the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: Internet and stuff like that. That's all great, but what
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: have we been doing with it? And where are we
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: going now? I think we are on the cusp of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: what I think could be a very impactful renaissance for everything,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: not even just occultism, a renaissance of human secular philosophy
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: that you know, kind of builds toward this hopefully utopia.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: I'm a huge believer in the concept of utopia if
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: we're all able to come together and create a society
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: that is, you know, perfect and amazing, and obviously, you know,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: for most it's a pipe dream, and honestly, it probably
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: is a pipe dream. But I think that we can
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: always focus on how do we get to that utopia.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: We can ever get there unless we're putting stones now
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: to eventually lead to some utopia. So I think we're
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: at the cusp of a renaissance. I think occultism is
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: going to start blossoming. I think that paganism especially there
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: are large pagan communities that are only growing in size.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: And you know, I've heard the opposite as well, you know,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: Catholicism and Abramic religion is getting very popular in other
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: parts of the country, so I think there's kind of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: like a shifting based on geographical location. But yeah, we're here,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: and I think it takes people who have the same
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: kind of pioneering mindset as you know, what makes organized
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 5: religion so powerful and so prevalent. It's people with big microphones,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: it's people with big buildings. And you know, if you
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: think about like what it takes to be a religious scholar,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: it takes years of schooling if you go through if
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: you want to be a clergyman, you have to go
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: to seminary school, you know what I mean. There's so
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: much structure around being a religious devotee in the Abramic
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: you know, whether it's Catholic or Christian or Jewish. You know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of training and struct Sure, occultism doesn't
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: really have anything like that, and I think we need
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: to start developing our own, you know, kind of occult
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: schools that allow for us to practice the same way
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: and not to create like priesthoods necessarily. I don't think
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: creating like a priesthood is the best way, because there
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: are plenty of you know, pagan priesthoods that you can
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: go through. But you know, I developing occultism as a
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: school of philosophy or history is the is the way
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: we're going to start edging our way into this heavily
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: organized religion kind of you know bulwark that that has
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: been existing for two thousand years at this point we
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: got to push back in some way. And I think
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: finding what that angle is to push in is where
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: is where we're at right now.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: I have a question about that. So within yours you
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: don't see any coexistence?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: Oh, I think coexistence is absolutely possible. I think the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: thing is is there isn't coexistence now. I think that's
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: the biggest thing. We don't live in a society where
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: that coexistence is allowed. We live in a very dualistic society.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: And being able to bring the occult up again, it's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: about balance, right, And it kind of you know, reflects
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: back to Serena's question earlier about well, if people were
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: allowed to study other things, would they have a different
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: kind of all around thought structure about it? And I
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: think yes, you know, people can still consider themselves Christian.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: I have nothing necessarily against the Christian religion. You know personally,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: I think that there's just too much in terms of
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: the dogma associated with it that is the problem. It's
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: not necessarily the lessons, it's not necessarily the teachings. I
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: think it's more just the structure around it and how
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: it leads people. Apocalyptic religions in general are a problem, right,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: And I would absolutely categorize Christianity as an apocalyptic religion
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: because of the concept of the rapture and the tribulation
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: and stuff like that. They don't think that anything good
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: is going to come from this planet. They want to
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: see an end to it. They want to see the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: destruction so that they can go to heaven, and that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: is like the main core concept. Right.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: So let me push back against you a little bit, Blake,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I think this is a good place. Is that that
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: is very much a fundamentalist interpretation. Like I grew up
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: in a very syncretic household. My dad is Indonesian Chinese.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Talked about this many times on the show My mom's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: French Canadian. I grew up in a very mixed religious household.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: My dad practice is a religion called Cabatin on which
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: most people don't even know about. It is so the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: reality is is like your experience. And also I want
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: to say this utopianism is also a millenerian. You might
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: not understand it to be like that, but in a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Buddhist view, both of those things are extremism. We would
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: say they're both. It's too far, You're not You're supposed
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: to build your own malcouth first, So I would I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: would just say, like to follow up what Judith is saying,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: It's like, I do agree that the aon is shifting
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: and we are moving into a new yoga, and Tantra
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: also agrees with that. It's not just like me coming
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: up with that. Absolutely, we are leaving cal Yuga or
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: we have and I believe we are going into the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: aon of the Daughter as I've called it, or the
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: aon of mad as tollinmac calls it, which I have
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: no problem with either one, and I just think that.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: But I think it's a psychic aon. I think it's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: actually a post magical aon. I know this is a
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: little radical, but I do think it's much more about
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: the self, not the self as in psychological or scientific,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: because there is you have to admit that there is
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: something very superficial and in Kabala. We would even say,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: like all institutional sort of formations are both of bina
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: an tiffer it, so they have like this kind of
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: physical edifice and sort of a physical manifestation in people's
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: imaginal or imaginary Both of those things are very dualistic,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: as you were saying. So it's not about like recreating
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: the institutions of the past. It's about like looking forward
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: to see like what institutions we can then create that
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: aren't going to replicate exactly the same structures as before.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: But it's not about necessarily dismantling. It's not about being
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: a material like anarchist where you're going to like go
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: like set things on fire, right, you just are going
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: with it, and you're kind of reconstituting yourself, rectifying yourself
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: and then moving up the tree, if you want to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: call it. That That's how I would think of it.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: So I would just say, like back to is that
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think that most people people might have the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: opinion that their experiences in whatever religion it is, because
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: it doesn't just have to be Christianity. There's a very
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: dogmatic Buddhists, a very like it depends it depends on
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: like your you know, cultural religion, like religion that is
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: embedded in culture, tends to be very dogmatic regardless of
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: what it is. Dualism is very much about the individual
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: mind and their perception of like the outer reality. So
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, I just think we can control ourselves,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: and so I just prefer not to like say, oh,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: it's going to be utopian or millenerian, and I reject that.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: And I also said that have said that to I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: and other people like I don't agree with that Gurdja
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: or the Edward Casey opinion. And I know that that
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: is kind of a a very important sort of cornerstone
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: of many of the people who belong to the Golden
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: End Tuble of Set. I just don't personally believe in
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: an apocalyptic ending either, So I don't think it's totally
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: fair to say that it is a Christian phenomenon. And
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: I also think that fundamentalism, as in reading texts as literal.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: I have met many many occultists and many many Pagans
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: who also read texts as very literal. So I don't
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: think that that is a Christian phenomena. I think that
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: that is just an individual phenomena of the mind. Again.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: So that's all I want to say. I just it's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: just a little bit of content. It's not really contention.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: It's just I think it's a good polarity. Maybe.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: No, I appreciate you speaking up, And I don't mean
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: this specifically as a there's only one enemy to this,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: to this concept. You know, I one hundred percent agree
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: with you. There's there's dogmatic occultists, you know what I mean,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: Every every you know, type of faith and practice will
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: have fundamentalism and dogma in it. And I think the
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: problem is that I don't necessarily think a pagan who
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 5: has the ability to write in past laws is going
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 5: to do the same amount of damage as a fundamental
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: is Christian who is able to write and pass laws.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 5: So I guess that's maybe where I'm coming at, because
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: you know, unless you are a devout Christian and you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 5: have these you know, these boxes ticked in order to
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 5: you know, run for office and stuff like that, it's
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: very hard for someone who is not fitting in that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 5: same exact structure to have positions of authority where it
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: affects the world in a global capacity. So I guess
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: that's more what I mean in terms of that. But no,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 5: I don't disagree at all. I think fundamentalism is everywhere
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: and the concept of utopia, and you know, I don't
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: know if I'm using that term incorrectly, but is more
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: about just the alleviation of fundamentalism in a way where
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: coexistence is a lot more prevalent than you know, us
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: versus them. So yeah, I agree with you though, absolutely.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you so much for allowing me
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: the space to sort of say that. In return, I
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: would just say to your last point about like, I
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: don't personally feel that anyone is really I don't think
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: we live in a world where I think we live
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: in a very free world, and we are free aged
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: like we are very agential if we choose to be.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: So I don't personally feel like I walk outside and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I live in a quote unquote Christian
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: nation and feel oppressed by that. But that's just maybe me.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: I just I don't feel that. And I know a
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: lot of people who you know, have institutional power that
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: are non normative in their lifestyle presentation or religious peculiarities,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: whatever those may be. So I really don't see it
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: as like pagan is in any way in twenty twenty six, Like,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: I don't see them as like an oppressed minority, just
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: personally destroying perspective.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: H one thing I did, why did anybody have any
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: sergeries or I.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: Was gonna ask the question because you you framed it
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: as if we have an upcoming renaissance and during the
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: last renaissance it was we we've seen artworks and all
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: those beautiful So what did what what productive beautiful thing
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: do you see coming from this vision of renaissance that
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: you believe is coming.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: Oh goodness, my thumbnail are absolutely uh. I mean I
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: think people are tired and you know this is uh.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: I don't have any like studies. I don't have any
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: citing sources for this, for this information that I have.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: It's more just like anecdotal. People are tired of like fakeness.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: I guess, you know. I think AI has become such
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: a thing where people are so excited about it, but
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 5: it's it's really easy to you know, see through AI,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 5: and a lot of people are like, ah more AI
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: slop and blah blah blah blah. And I think authenticity
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 5: is something that uh, you know, one it gets to
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: a breaking point where we're tired of of kind of
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: like the status quo. Certain things can kind of feel
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: like a like a cultural prison. And and especially with
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: you know, the advancement of technology, right and again anecdotal,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: but you know, I feel like people would rather read
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 5: an actual book than than you know, hold a kindle
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: in their hand. You know, I think that there are
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: things about technology where it gets to a point where
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: we kind of want to go back to a more
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: authentic expression of what art looks like, whether it's painting,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 5: whether it's writing poetry, and stuff like that. I feel
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 5: like when I started experimenting with occultism, I was more
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: inspired to be interested in things like poetry and art
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: because being able to learn more about these symbols and
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 5: being able to look at ancient, you know, Renaissance pictures
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: and trying to piece, you know, pull apart occult symbolism
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: in those. You know, Uh, there's a there's an amazing
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: art work called Melancholia that has so much interesting occult
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: symbolism in it and stuff, and you could just look
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: at it and stare at it and you know, pull
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: things apart all day. But you know, it's an authentic expression.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: It's something that someone actually made, and so I hope
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: if we are to have this beautiful occult renaissan, that
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: that type of structure would maybe come back. You know,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: cult occult music, occult poetry, occult artwork and stuff like that. Books.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: You know, I think there's a lot of fantasy books
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 5: which are really fun and stuff. But I mean, I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 5: don't know, maybe I just haven't read any, but I
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: would love more like occult modern occult grimoires even, you
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: know what I mean. We have so much ancient texts,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 5: We have so much ancient stuff, and we do have
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 5: some like turn of the century stuff as well. Not
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: to say that everything occult is ancient, A lot of
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 5: it is more modern, but you know, full on grimoires
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 5: of modern occult practice. That would be kind of what
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: are archaeologists a thousand years going to from now going
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: to look back and say, oh, this is where, you know,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: this era of occultism really made an impact. You know
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 5: what is that going to be? I guess I don't
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 5: I don't really know. I hope that we can make
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: an impact in some way where one hundred a thousand
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: years from now, you know, archaeologists look back and go,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 5: that was a good period of occultism.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: One thing I did want to say. I think like
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: even when I say like a renaissance and like Judith
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: mentions like the art, yeah, of course obviously that came
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: upon that. I often think that that is the result
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: of people having magical experiences, you know, is that that
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: art now comes to be because they're trying to express
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: something that they experienced. So like, I do think like,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: if if we start going into like I guess, you know,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: knew a cult of renaissances, people start having their own
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: magical experiences, crossing the abyss, out of body experiences, this
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: and that, things that rock their core and changed them
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: and left them with visions and stuff. I think that's
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: when you'll start seeing art or you know, even maybe
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: music might change, it might actually start getting better, you know,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: and other things. You know. I do think that will
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: be a side effect of people having that experience. I mean,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: I would never have even tried to entertain doing a
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: podcast if it wasn't from the experiences I had from
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: magic exactly. That's what inspired me to start doing it.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: So I do think that, you know, that could be
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: possibly like the side effect of you know, a part
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: of going with the renaissance. Another thing I did want
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: to add, and I it's kind of like, I don't know,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: maybe it might sound a little shitty to get into,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: but I do think it's kind of reality when you
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: start looking at like just even the ideas of magic
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: and orders themselves. I'd say, like most of the stuff
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: that like really is huge nowadays really isn't any older
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: than the seventeen hundred. So it might be influenced by
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: things much older, like Plato or Neoplatonism and stuff, but
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of these things that happened to have names,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: you know, even like you know, the Golden Down, the Oto,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: the Temple is set, that's even younger. Even the Masons.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Really they have gone through a few generations of like
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: people that have been the mouthpiece for them. And I
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: do think, like I'm just real at least for the
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Oto as well. But for the most part, if you're
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: still looking at the people that represent these ideas of
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: the Lima or the Oto, they ain't got much time
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: left just keeping it real. So who's going to be
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: the people that are going to be talking about that
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: stuff after they're gone? Just people that are around now
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: that weren't being listened to in the past, you know,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: there's something to that effect. I'm just you know, in
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: another ten twenty years, just you know, the people that
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: might have been faces or influencing these thoughts or these
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: types of schools of thought really won't be here to
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: keep giving their point of view on it. And the
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: times have changed as well. You know, even with just technology,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: we have a total generation of people that look at
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: things differently or able to read more, look at other
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: things more. That wasn't as easy two hundred years ago.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: You weren't going to go Like for me, if I
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: want to start doing science and trying to look at
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: at the occulture, you know how hard that would have
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: been for me. There was no internet for me to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: just google shit. You know what I'm saying, Like, how
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: would I in a library?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, and so and I just you know,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: just keep it a real I do think that's even
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: something that's coming to be soon too, is that the
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: old school and thoughts of what magic was might even
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: be changing a little bit by the people that are
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: involved in it now and are taking that I guess
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: the torch if you want to look at it that
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: way and going forward with it, I do think, uh,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Magic's being looked at a little bit differently than it
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: used to be. I think it's going back more of people,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: my opinion. I'm seeing a lot more people that look
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: at it a little bit academically or more in a
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: polymath sense, which is way the way the way it
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: was during the Renaissance.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, so I think that that might analogy is
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: the course? Go ahead? Yeah, you know, I just agree.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: H boy, No, I know that's kind of like a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: shitty way to look at it, but I'm just you know,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: just keeping it real. I mean, eventually things end and
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: it keeps going in other ways. So yeah, I just
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: think that we're on a verge of maybe being a
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: little bit more open to things that others generations before
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: us might have been a little bit close minded on,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: you know, And I think that might help bring the
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: appeal to more people to get into it.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: I think that that's one of the cool things about
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: your school is what are you doing with that? But
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: you're kind of building legacy, honestly, right, You're building a
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: platform or anybody who makes any sort of like temple
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: or mystery school, like, you're creating a structure for things
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: to grow outside of you and to continue on and
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: I think that that's that's awesome because on one hand,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: I think that some old ideas need to die. Sorry,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: Like you know, some things are wrong, Like you know
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: some of the old stuff is I think that there's
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: like a lot of romanticism and like antiquity, like something
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: old equates good. And I'm like, not necessarily, you know,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: like I don't think that that's true. Although we can
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: find a lot, we can learn a lot from the past,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: but some things, some old ideas need to die. Sorry.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: But I think that we also there needs to be
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: I think I just keep talking about balance, and it's
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: so just the same thing I can keep coming back
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: to is like we can learn from the past, but
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: we also need to be able to grow and to
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: create new ideas. But one of the cool things about
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: technology and your school and other people who do stuff
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: like what you're doing is you're building a legacy where
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: other people can come in and share their ideas and
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: continue to grow. But I mean, one thing I think,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: especially specifically with the renaissance that we're talking about right now,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: is we have this incredible tool like the Internet, like computers,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: like technology that no one has ever had before. And
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: I was even listening to Nick the show that you
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: were on earlier, you guys were talking about like the
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 3: burning down of the Library of Alexandra, and it's like,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: you know, we in the past, like we could lose
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: all of our records, like we had the ability. But
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: right now, I mean, unless like the Internet is destroyed somehow,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, we have the really really
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: cool thing about this specific movement that has never really
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: happened in the past is we have ways of archiving earth,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: archiving our beliefs and then sharing them with each other
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: on like a really easy worldwide scale instantaneously.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: That was really great, Serena. I totally agree with you.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: That's even a great cabalistic metaphor you use, like to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: build something outside of yourself, like very malcouston net sock,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: like you're planting the seeds in the garden, like the
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: seeds of the pomegran it. Maybe you could even say
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: that's very cobalistic, right, because of pomegranate is the perfect
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: metaphor for So yeah, I appreciate that. I agree, and
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: I think it like is even that what Nick said,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: like everything's so recent, like all magic is very recent,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: and it's all actually replicable. I agree with what Nick
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: was saying about, like if you're having higher separatic experiences
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: or tontric experiences, or you're seeing the colors. There's a
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: lot of people, a lot of people behind the scenes
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: who are not podcasting, who might be maybe even peripherally podcasting,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: but not like regularly, like on how Nick does, who
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: are really really looking at like the different systems. Like
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: I study Kabala with someone and he is really into
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: the idea of Buddhism and Kabala having like a thirteenth
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: century convergence. Now I just said, like everything is more recent,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: and I agree it's all about syncretism at different times.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: So I don't even really personally believe in it. I'm
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: not contradicting anyone. This is just my weird axial age
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: historical appraisal. But I don't really believe in a dark age.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: I think you can look at anywhere in the world
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: and there were different things happening at different times. I
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: think different places are on different kinds of time scales
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: or time wheels. It's a very tontric way to think.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I definitely think that we're in a convergent
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: time and like Serena saying, like what we're doing right now,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: like we're on a podcast with I'm with two pagans,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: I'm with Judith who looks at mindfulness, Nick who's Exoto,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm practicing Tntra Buddhism and Hebrew, like
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: traditional medieval Hebrew Kabala, so like we are actually doing
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: it right now, like we are doing it in discourse
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: right now, like the we're doing Plato one oh one.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Magic arises in discourse. And that's what I think. I mean,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: I just think that the podcasting is it Like I'm
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: not saying it's like it's perfect. There's a lot of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: people who I don't agree with, but that's okay too
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: because they're people have to use discernment too. I think
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: that's a big part. Like they're talking about Mars in
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: the chat, and you can look at cabalistically and sort
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: of understand Mars as the gross astrology of the tree
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: and say, yeah, we are moving into a more gevoratic
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: era where people will to actually need to exercise a
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: lot of personal discernment and not everything is going to
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: be true. And like Serna said, sure, old things need
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: to die. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with certain
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: institutions completely like fading away. But it's again, we live
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: in a cycle, so there is no real old ideas
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: and there's no real new ideas. We're just constantly reconstituting it.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: But I'm excited for not necessarily AI. And I agree
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: with you one hundred percent blank, like you know, like
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: I do not believe in the either the AI apocalypse
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: or the AI utopia. I think it's a tool, a
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: techne and I think we get to use it to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: say a on of man. I know I said a
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: on of the daughter, and it is, but it's also
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: the aon of man if we choose right, because we
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: have to be of our own free will to choose
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: that for ourselves. So we get to I think we'll
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: be able to use the technology if we want to.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: And like, yeah, knowledge is free, death is free. Death
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: is definitely liberated by the Internet. There's no question about that.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: It's it's all available you can get. I can access
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: the most transgressive leftime path Grimoires, I can access all
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: of Chaos Magic, I can read Oto Materials, Golden Dawn, everything.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's all accessible to me, hosted interestingly on
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of government websites like the Internet Archive and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: like CIA dot gov. I'm just saying, it's all there.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: They host, they're the mat like the CIA is the
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: biggest host of all the of all the grimoires. I'm
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: just saying, So, if you're like a young mage cell
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: like me, well, I'm not that young, but I mean
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: if you're you know, if you're interested in magic, then
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: that's a place you might go. So yeah, it's it's
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: it's about what we're going to do with it. But
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: so I'm excited. So I just want to say, sorry,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't mean to.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: Awesome you get.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, uh oh you're I give us, like if
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: you don't mind, maybe a couple examples of like some
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: stuff that you do feature in your academy. We try
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: to entice some of the listeners, you know what I'm
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: saying to go there and check it out.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: Sure, absolutely. Uh Well, a couple of the courses that
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 5: I've developed so far, I'm working on a lot of
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 5: kind of like foundational stuff to try to build kind
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: of like the core knowledge, and then I want to
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 5: eventually get into more advanced stuff.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 5: And then as a traditional mystery school, I'm going to
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 5: have my own stuff as well that isn't specific to
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: any one particular practice. So a lot of the things
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 5: we have right now, uh you know, uh one oh
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 5: one on occult symbolism, right, a little bit of symbolic literacy,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: history of the occult. How do we look back and
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: see the growth of occult from one thing to the other.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 5: What constitutes the occult? You know, what are some major
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 5: time periods of occult history that you should know about.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 5: So a lot of the early stuff is foundational. I
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 5: learned a lot about runs. I've learned a lot about
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 5: palmistry and stuff like that. So I have a you know,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: kind of one oh one foundational understanding of runes and symbolism, palmistry, premer.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 5: I have the Whel of the Year, which was a
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 5: lot more of a very interesting kind of deep dive
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: than I expected. But it's not only just a hey,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: this is what the will of the year is, and
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: this is how to practice certain things in the Will
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: of the year. It also talks about kind of the
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: history of some of where those traditions come from, because
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 5: it is also very eclectic. It's from a bunch of
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 5: different traditions that were kind of brought together to be
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 5: one cohesive thing that is now attributed to the wheel
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 5: of the year, but they were all kind of separate
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: practices from different cultures. I'm working on a masterclass on
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 5: kind of pagan history and tradition as well, because what
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: a lot of people don't know is a lot of
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 5: modern paganism is not a direct union with ancient paganism.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 5: A lot of it has been disrupted by history. And
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 5: so the concept of this class is to teach, you know,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 5: this is what ancient pagan religion looked like from a
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: specific lens, and this is kind of how a modern
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 5: interpretation of that is present. It take Heathenry for example, right,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 5: modern Heathenry may be different in a lot of respects
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 5: to what ancient Germanic religion looked like. Obviously, you know,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 5: similar deity, similar you know, practices and stuff like that.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 5: But the concept of modern paganism is mostly about trying
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 5: to redevelop and restructure those ancient religions and bring them
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 5: into modern times. And so a lot of my classes,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 5: unfortunately right now, are not going to be particular to
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 5: practice necessarily, aside from like, oh, I'm going to learn
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 5: about rooms, so that I can do rune divination, or
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: I can learn about palmistry so I can read poems. Right,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 5: A lot of the classes are more about more of
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 5: a scholarly understanding of occult institutions because a again, you know,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 5: kind of like what we were talking about. If you
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 5: think about what it takes to be a student and
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 5: practitioner of other religions, it takes a lot of kind
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: of historical knowledge. You need to learn the roots, you
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 5: need to understand the foundations before you can kind of
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 5: go into the deeper things. And so a lot of
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 5: my stuff is very foundational currently, and I am working
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 5: with other experts to develop other practice type things. Like
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: I said, I have a buddy who's going to be
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 5: working on the Kabbala, which is probably also going to
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 5: be more of a scholarly take than it is going
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 5: to be about a practice take. But that is kind
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 5: of like the next evolution of the school is let's
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 5: stop talking about the how and why and let's get
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: into the actual practice eventually, So all that is coming
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 5: in due time. I also have been developing what I
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 5: consider kind of my three gateways of Enlightenment, which kind
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 5: of deal with going through a self mastery process of disillusion,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 5: like you know, shedding your former self, shedding your dogma,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 5: shedding shame, kind of get riding of the unauthentic side
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 5: of you. And then the second gateway is alignment essentially,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 5: not alignment. I'm still developing it obviously, So the first
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 5: one is like disillusion, right, get rid of your former self,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 5: and then eventually you get into like shadow work. So
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 5: shadow work, in my opinion, is a very important occult practice.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 5: So how do we practice shadow work and how do
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 5: we come to a realization that from a like Youngian
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 5: psychology perspective, the idea of the shadow side is not
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 5: to kill the shadow, it's to integrate it and to
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 5: understand it in a way that actually empowers you. So
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 5: the course that I'm kind of working on takes you
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 5: through disillusion, it takes you through shadow work, and then
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 5: eventually it is going to be about realignment. So how
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 5: do we align with our true will? Which also borrows
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 5: a lot of kind of imagery and symbolism from thelema.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 5: You know, not to like appropriate it in any way,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 5: but I do appreciate how concepts of thelma attribute to
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 5: true will and the understanding of alignment with true will,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: and so how do I help people go from I
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 5: feel shame, I'm angry, i feel disillusioned, and then how
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 5: do I transform that into I know exactly who my
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 5: authentic self is, and I'm living as my authentic self.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 5: So that is kind of what I hope the Mystery
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 5: School starts becoming is kind of a blueprint on using
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 5: a cult practice as a pathway to self mastery.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: Have you been reading Alice Bailey? Somebody's asking.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 5: No, I have, not very nice if there are reading recommendations,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 5: though always happy.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: You know. One thing I did want to ask you
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: about I wanted to ask you earlier. I think it
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: was very interesting that you brought it up. Uh, can
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about what I guess you
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: mentioned Christian magic people? Could you maybe give it good
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: you know, just talk about that a little bit about
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: what Christian magic is to you, or like how you
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: see that or types of magic you know, can you
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: let people know about Christian magic from your point of view.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 5: One of the first books that I remember receiving as
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 5: a gift that opened my eyes up to this idea
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 5: was the Book of Oberon, and it is an Elizabethan
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 5: magic grimoire from the fifteen hundreds that was developed during
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 5: the time of Shakespeare, and it is a compilation of
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 5: a bunch of different types of Christian ceremonial magic. And
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 5: so if you think about some of the famous occultists
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 5: like John Dee for instance, who you know, what's so
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 5: fascinating is that he was the royal occultist to Queen
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: Elizabeth the First. She literally had her own alchemist occultist
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 5: on hand to help, you know, read the stars to
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 5: figure out when her coronation should be. They were practicing
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 5: ritual magic that was paired with Christian theology, and it
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 5: wasn't something that was very widely used. From the historical
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 5: research that I've done, it wasn't like everyone in their
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 5: mom was doing Christian ceremonial magic. It was a lot
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 5: more about who can actually get their hands on these
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 5: grimoires and texts, and a lot of times that were
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 5: people that were in the royalty, people that were associated
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 5: with royalty or could get their hands on things like that.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 5: And so for me, it was kind of this eye
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 5: opening revelation to go from this is all evil to Wow,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 5: Christians are performing ceremonial magic, what the hell? And so
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 5: I loved I think that was a nice kind of
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: step down for me because it allowed me to look
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: at something that was adjacent to my beliefs, but was
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: also a huge step into a realm that I was
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: completely unfamiliar with and to this day. And the thing
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 5: that's also very interesting is the grim Wire actually talks
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 5: about correspondences with other pagan deities as well, so it
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 5: gives you a little bit of a primer on other
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: beings that are outside of the Abrahamic religion. And there
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 5: is a lot of syncretism in it, which kind of,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 5: you know, also points you into different directions based on
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 5: what you're interested in. But there are sigil magic in there,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 5: there are rituals, there's ways to create your own incences.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 5: They've got a bunch of lists of how to create
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 5: your own different types of incenses. There is a consecration
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 5: ritual in there that I still do for things because
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 5: I love to. If I want to do something with
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 5: the intention of making it a magical practice, I want
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 5: to be able to consecrate it because I feel like
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: consecrating things is very important. So you know, there's a
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 5: there's a consecration ritual in there. But you know, I
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 5: think that if you're a Christian who is interested in magic.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 5: It's a good way to kind of peak just slightly
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 5: outside and go ooh, what is all this stuff out there?
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 5: Because it does use you know, Jesus Christ, it does
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 5: use the angels, it does use familiar imagery that isn't
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 5: going to spook you away. You're not just diving right
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 5: into stuff that is completely foreign to you. So it's
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 5: a good adjacent way to get into ritual ceremonial magic
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 5: if you are coming out of like more of a
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 5: fundamentalist concept of Christianity. And I really appreciated that. And
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 5: I think that again, it's kind of like a gateway too. Well,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 5: if I can learn about this, what else is out there?
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 5: And I think that's what the occult is. It's a
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 5: constant question. You're asking yourself of okay, what else? Okay,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 5: what else? And it's a never ending it's a never
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 5: ending question. I don't think there will ever be the
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 5: end of that what else is out there?
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: You know? Thank you for adding all that. I appreciate that.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: It's just even when I got into the cold believe
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: it or not, I was actually surprised when I noticed
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: how much christian and Catholicism like there was people who
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: just practice purely that style magic. And I was like, oh,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. I just you know, I don't think
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of people know that actually. You know, there's
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: like even like I remember, I think they did a
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: class on it at the Lodge, like Pennsylvania Dutch stuff,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: and I mean that's a lot of like basically kind
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: of almost like Christian magic, and like they were showing
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: how you know, like those mendalas that they make a
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: lot of those things are like on houses from back
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: in the day, Like you see those things on the
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: front of the houses. That was them kind of tossing
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: up like they're mark I don't know, if you know,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: not everybody's putting them on their houses now for that
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: reason because they probably just think like, oh, the's decorative,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, because the house next door
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: has it. So but uh, you know, back in the day,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: that was like them actually kind of like putting up
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: like their their thing, you know, and they were Christians,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: but they practice some sort of witchcraft the magic. Yeah,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting. Uh. I just want to
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: ask you that because I don't think a lot of
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: people are well, not in the ocult community. But you know,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people probably listen to
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: my show that might be a little surprised that Christians
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: have their own forms of magic, absolutely right, even how
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: much the psalms are used.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, there's there's psalms in the in the Grimoire
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 5: as well. They use psalms as part of the incantations
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 5: and stuff.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, like this one people that just do
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: salm magic, you know, or on one.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: Of the oldest Yeah, that's sorry, Nick, that's one of
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: the oldest, you know, to texts of magic. Psalms are
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: absolutely magic. Every single letter in kabbala. I mean you
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: can you can use kabala to understand all the texts,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: all the psalms. They have secret meanings, they have letters
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: associated with them, they have certain flashing colors, even just
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: versus that all the numerology is there. There are invocations,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: there's it's it's a very it's a simple tool. Like
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: you can use it in a very folk magic sense,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: and then you can also use it in a much
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: higher ritual magic sense, or even just a practical kabala
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: sense if you're just doing like like how I could
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: do cabala not as magic, but as like a wisdom.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: There's strictly conceptual wisdom science like mandolas, like you brought
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: a mondolas. You can just think of the tree like that.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: That's how I approach it more just as like a
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: series of meditations, colors ideas. So, but you can definitely
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: use the psalms for that, so the people are always surprised,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: like psalms have an infinite potential. Almost you could probably
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: reconstruct the tree, to be honest, from the psalms alone,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: if you understood the numerological pattern. I don't.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying I understand it. I definitely don't. I'm
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: just saying that it's there if you're high IQ and
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: mathematical enough.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: Well there's also who do too, you know who do
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 3: use the psalms, and that's space off of Christianity as well.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: It's like a blend of like African spiritual tradition and Protestantism.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: So that's also I would argue sort of a form
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: of Christian magic as well.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, Nick, you and I did the series on Oba, right,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: and like the Delaurence Company and like all the Jamaican
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: and Trinidadian sort of like syncretic contrac Christian Sufi folk
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: magic from the Caribbean. So yeah, it's absolutely. I definitely
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: agree with us Serena saying like there's it's it's like
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: the Jewish drugstore magic, like they were the ones who
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: sort of gave the psalms to people buying like roots
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: and candles. Absolutely, it's all pervasive and because magic is
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: better together, like death is more of a syncretic sephera
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: if you want to call it that. Like knowledge should
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: go together, knowledge makes sense together. It's not really meant
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: to be separated. Doesn't mean it's all the truth. It
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: just means that it's it should be in contour to
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: each other, so you can actually sermon tree.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: Yay. Do anybody have any questions or anything they wanted
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: to add anything, Judith Serena, Jim real good. All right,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: I think we could probably wrap it up here. Thank
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: you will for coming on. It was really good talk.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: It was great to you. It was nice to get
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: annoyed and hear what you're into and what you're doing.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: And I am sure we can get you on in
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: the future to talk about something else. I'd love to
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: talk to you about your site even more. Actually, down
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: the road, so it sounds really good man. Thank you, yeah, no,
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: of course, no, thank you, thank you, Jerena, thank you
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: for suggesting him. Great show, Judith, real quick before we
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: wrap it up, let everybody know they can find your
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: amazing work.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 3: First, thank you for coming on.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: And it was a pleasure meeting you. I wish you
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: the best of success because we need a lot of
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: mystery schools out there, So thank you very much.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 3: You can find me.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 4: On YouTube under the loan or you could I'm you on.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 3: X at the loon fifty. Thank you for having me.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, thank you, Agen the Ninja. What's going on, sir?
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, boss, and thank you of course
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: Judith and also Serena. This is our first time together
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: on alive. But it was really nice to meet you,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: and your answers were actually really surprising, and I agreed
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: with it all. Not that I wouldn't bet, I just
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: it just surprises me because there's very few women in
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: the ocul To who have I find to have very
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: substantive sort of like not just it's not just witchcraft,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: it's like much more substantive o'callon noledge. So you really
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: impressed me, not that you should impress me. But I'm
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: just saying you did so. Thank you so much, and
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: of course, Blake, thank you so much for doing it,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: for being here, and I really appreciate that you took
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: my pushback. And it's not I think you're doing a
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: great thing. I just I like to be discursive, and
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: you know that's just my way I have been doing it.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's the astrology. I know, Nick Kate's when we
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: blame astrology for any of our personal qualms, and I
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: do too. For the record, I do too. It's not
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: an excuse. You can't be a shitty person just because
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: you know whatever. Pluto is an Aquarius, but he has to,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: you know. Anyways. So the point is is, thank you
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: so much. I appreciate it. All people can check me
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: out Threshold Saints. I have two episodes with Saschke dropping
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: on February second. So he invented crystal quantum computing that
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: can work on nineties computers, So it's sort of self emergent.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: AI very cabalistic. He's a cabalist, he's a chaos magician.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: He worked at CERN. He's kind of a crazy dude,
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: but he's my friend, so I'm really excited for those
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: to drop, and then so much coming up. I have
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: an episode of Baker coming out, and I'm sure I'll
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: eventually talk to both Serena and like maybe down the road.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: So oh and Nick Nick Nick's coming on for mister
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: ninety three. So third episode, yeah, let me shout that out.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: That's right, ninety third episode, so thank you so much.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: And Judas coming on too. I just haven't figured it out.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: I'm very busy, but it's it's happening. So thank you
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: guys all. And they checked me out and obviously sub
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: to the Mystery School and some just Serna's channel as well.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys, appreciate it.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: Check out the Grey Louch hell yeah.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, check out the Grey Lodge. Thank you, sorry, Nick, Yeah,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. Check out the Great Lodge Friday
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: Nights Friday, February thirteenth. Will is the Cause of fire.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: Very nice, very nice. Thank you again, Jenn, always appreciate
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: what you make the show. And Serena, what is going on?
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: Please let everybody know where they can find your amazing one.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on. And I'm
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 3: glad I impressed you, Jan because you do seem very
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 3: discursive in your own words, so I take that as
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: a gold star. You can find me on YouTube and
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: Instagram under my full dame and yeah, I come check
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: me out and thank you so much for having me on.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: No, no, thank you very much, appreciate it. I'm glad
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: you came on. And definitely go check out our channel.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: Like I said, she's had some really good guests on there.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: She's had Navis Lynn on the R. Tell us about that.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: So good for you. And yes, all right, gentlemen of cultists,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: please let everybody know where they can find all of
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: your stuff. One more time.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, finally, thank you guys so much. It was such
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 5: a pleasure to be here. Great meeting all of you. Uh, Serena,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 5: I enjoyed our conversation. I'm so happy that you are
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 5: here with us tonight. It's so fun to hang out
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 5: with you. And uh, really, I appreciate the back and
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 5: forth and I'm definitely not one to shy away from
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 5: any type of pushback. I think the only way we
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 5: continue to grow is to have constructive discourse and to
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 5: to you know, challenge ideas and and you know, find
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 5: a way to push to consensus. So thank you all
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: so much, so much fun hanging out with you. I
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 5: am the Gentleman Occultist on all platforms uh TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 5: even YouTube. Uh To find my mystery school, I use
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 5: a plat form called school s koo l and it
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 5: is the Gentleman Occultist on that school platform. I will
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: provide a link. The name of the school will change
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 5: eventually because kind of like what Serena had said, you know,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 5: you're building something that exists beyond you, and the school
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 5: was originally just for me to kind of build a
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 5: place for us to hang out and talk. As it evolves,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 5: so is the whole concept of it. So it will
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 5: have a name change to align with a more universal
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 5: and you know, future proof existence. But for right now,
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 5: it is the Gentleman Occultist on school as well. We're
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 5: the number one occult group on the platform.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: That's what's good for you. That's awesome, nice stuff, nice stuff.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: You know. One thing, like you said, you know, I
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: do think it's you know again, I have multiple people
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: on the show because I just know a very little
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: bit about what I'm into, you know what I'm saying,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: So I have people from other angles or other beliefs
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: come on the show because you know, I think that
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: makes a difference. You know, I think you can learn
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: from other people. So very well said sir. And yeah,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: definitely go check out his I don't know if your
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: TikTok is like your Instagram, but definitely if you have Instagram,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: go check out his instagram. He's got great reels. You know,
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: he does like little things on specific topics. I definitely
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: think it's worth checking out. It might give you a
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of ideas of things that you didn't know exist,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: or you know, it's a good place to start. So
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: definitely go check out his instagram. I think it's well done.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: Good job, sir. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Everybody in the chat, thank you very much for showing up.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: Zachary Hubbard. I saw you were in there again, mister Jamatre.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: I gotta get you on the show at some point.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for stopping by and blessing us
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: with your presence. Uh yeah, that's what's up. And everybody
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: else in the chat, that's why we go live. I
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: appreciate the comments, I appreciate everything and that's in there,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: and for the most part, people that are there from
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: the beginning, stay till the end, so that's what's up,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: and until the next one, everybody'd be uh well later