Latest / The P[w]rescription / SOW WON HOF 2026 W/ Rich Latta [Modern/US, Ballot talk, Melanin]

Transcript

SOW WON HOF 2026 W/ Rich Latta [Modern/US, Ballot talk, Melanin] · The P[w]rescription

0:01
I like to get my prescription from Larry. Lock
0:05
in. Aw, shit. What's up, what's up, what's up?
0:58
This is Dr. Larry, aka The Great Swag Skate,
1:03
aka Goonther, aka... You know what? I'm gonna
1:09
do this. The King of the Fountain. this is your
1:13
host lariat and of course welcome back to the
1:17
state of wrestling wrestling observer news hall
1:21
of fame show this time we got the 2026 edition
1:25
and uh i got some great guests here uh i'm gonna
1:30
introduce my friend uh he has a youtube channel
1:33
he covers historical wrestling he actually got
1:35
me to talk about uh my uh my fandom apoc on his
1:40
show uh Good friend of the guy good friend of
1:44
the show here. He's been on the first the first
1:48
guy I invented on for like my review shows Tennessee,
1:51
what's up, Tennessee? Hey, how's it going there?
1:55
Hey, man, if people wanted to watch your stuff,
1:57
where can they watch you? I didn't go on YouTube
2:00
um 10 -4 -10 You also go on blue slide again
2:03
10 -4 -10 Yeah, man 10 -4 -10 from Stone Mountain,
2:09
Georgia like Jake the snake Roberts but he ain't
2:12
he ain't doing the fenneling like jake the snake
2:14
so we're good um also we have with us here the
2:20
most illustrious guest one of my favorite peoples
2:25
in pro wrestling because i don't fuck with a
2:27
lot of people in pro wrestling but this dude
2:29
i fucks with hard not like that let me pause
2:34
myself but we have here one half of one nation
2:37
radio You can catch him on YouTube on Rich Lata
2:41
Pro Wrestling. Yeah, I kind of killed the lead.
2:44
We got Rich Lata. What's up, my dude? What's
2:48
going on, man? Glad to be back and excited to
2:50
talk about some Hall of Fame stuff, man. Heard,
2:53
you know, you're rolling in the dough now. There's
2:55
big business going on here on this show. Hey,
2:59
hey. You know, yeah, we standing on business.
3:02
So thank you for telling me that because let
3:05
me say, I hope that one day the Dave Meltzer's
3:09
Wrestling Observer News Hall of Fame letter ends
3:12
up being on stuff like Polymarket, which is,
3:15
you know, where you could trade on anything and
3:18
it's a future betting site. So, you know, you
3:21
could go and click my affiliate link and go over
3:24
and, you know, maybe bet on something because
3:26
I know what Rich is known for on his channel,
3:30
on his podcast, One Nation Radio is also the
3:32
sports talk, especially NBA. And, you know, as
3:36
we're sitting here, because I'm going to probably
3:38
release this this week, rich Luca, man. Look,
3:44
man, I love it. I feel like we've officially
3:48
gotten a real start of a Luca downstairs era.
3:52
And I am nothing but pleased with his play and
3:56
how the team is looked. And, you know, he's making
3:59
a run at MVP, I think. Yeah, man, that's that
4:03
I predicted on the show was. Luca for MVP and
4:08
like he's plus 450 right now if you look on the
4:11
sites So if that's something that you're gonna
4:14
bet on right now taking a look at plus 150 for
4:18
MVP side Yeah, you do it now because like the
4:23
longer the season goes the smaller that gets
4:24
so buy one It's buy one is slow. So when it gets
4:27
time to it, it'll pay off 10 do you you watch
4:32
you watch NBA you watch anything like that man?
4:34
You watch any sports? I watch basketball mostly
4:36
on NFL Yeah, yeah. Hey man, the Hawks beat my
4:42
Niners over the weekend. I mean It was what it
4:46
was pretty couldn't like handle that defense
4:49
They couldn't get the ball downfield and I don't
4:52
know if the Hawks the Falcons are your team,
4:54
but you know Patriots oh man Patriots Hey, but
5:02
um Yeah, it's good to have you guys on the show
5:05
and I know I said this on the discord rich on
5:10
the social suffix this word by the way social
5:13
suffix discord that is You know, that's a public
5:16
discord. You can join Go check out social suffix
5:19
calm also with one of the best newsletters and
5:22
wrestling go ahead and do that yeah, I found
5:26
both ten on the on the Social Suplex Discord
5:29
and Rich is on there, he's talking. I remember
5:33
I said this to you because when you announced,
5:36
you tweeted out, right, that you finally got
5:38
the, after years of talking to Hall of Fame,
5:42
you finally got the ballot, right? And I said
5:47
this, I said like, it's nice to finally have
5:51
some melanin in the voting block, because. Yes.
5:57
My word, it was, it's just. You know, it's almost
6:03
Christmas time, so I'm dreaming of a white Christmas.
6:06
I was dreaming of some diversity. Let's get some
6:10
diversity, equity, and inclusion in this voting.
6:13
So to hear that my guys, they already said they
6:17
had it. So he's going to join us later, Arturo.
6:19
He got his ballot. And Rich got his ballot. I
6:22
was so excited. I was so happy for you, man.
6:26
And I'm going to start off here with asking,
6:28
how did it feel to get that? Um, it was kind
6:33
of still a shock, uh, still like I had kind of
6:36
had an inkling. Like it was, it was headed towards
6:38
that direction. Big shout out to Trish, uh, for
6:40
sure for, uh, you know, her role. I'm sure if
6:44
I don't know Trish, I don't know how long it
6:46
takes for me to end up getting one of these things.
6:49
But, um, I did a lot of work over the, uh, previous
6:53
four or five years covering it year to year on
6:55
the podcast and, uh, writing the cases for. uh,
7:00
Mercedes Monet and Junkyard Dog. Well, the Mercedes
7:02
one was this year, but the Junkyard Dog one was
7:04
a big one that I kind of got known for in Hall
7:07
of Fame circles, uh, I would say. And, uh, well,
7:12
you know, when I saw it come through, it was
7:13
just like, oh snap. Cause like I had, I think
7:16
I was taking a nap and I woke up out my nap at
7:17
like one o 'clock or something like that. And
7:20
then, you know, I saw it come through and you
7:22
see that Dave Meltzer, uh, it was like RE, no
7:25
subject. Dave Meltzer, and then like, he sends
7:28
you like this broken email sort of, you can only
7:31
get it on your mobile device, like where you
7:33
can see all the names. It's weird. Like, but,
7:36
um, I was very happy and I guess the reason I
7:40
was happy was because, you know, you hear the
7:43
hall of fame that I'm like, man, like, well,
7:45
it's a hall of fame. Like, I would love to like
7:47
have some type of voice in that. If I'm a, you
7:50
know, public and vocal and wrestling fan and
7:54
you know, somebody that They either follow my
7:56
Twitter account or my YouTube channel and stuff
7:58
like that. It's just like another, um, you know,
8:01
stripe. So, so to say of like, Hey, maybe, you
8:04
know, you should, uh, care a little bit about
8:06
what I have to say, or it's a little bit of,
8:09
of, you know, a role in, uh, you know, how I
8:14
approach and cover pro wrestling, like, Oh, I'm
8:16
a hall of fame voter and stuff like that. And
8:18
I know some people may think of the Observer
8:21
Hall of Fame and they get real weird about it,
8:24
whatever, and it's like, all right, man, how
8:25
many Hall of Fames have you ever heard of or
8:27
been in? I'm in a Hall of Fame, like a different
8:30
one. There's something called lessbeef .com,
8:34
where it's like freestyle battles, rap battles,
8:36
and stuff like that. I joined the site in 2006,
8:39
and I got put in the Hall of Fame in 2014, maybe?
8:45
I want to say something like that, but it's just...
8:47
Hall of Fame like a random Hall of Fame if you're
8:50
in like anytime you're in a Hall of Fame of anything
8:52
I think or have in this case the ability to influence
8:56
that I feel like that's cool or important so
9:00
And you know it was it was real honor and you
9:03
know just the way I'm looking at It is like alright.
9:07
I'm I feel like I my role in it is to be you
9:11
know a person that looks at a lot of the modern
9:14
stuff or whatever use my strengths, you know,
9:16
what I really feel like I have. And then, you
9:18
know, shore up everything else like no one's
9:20
going to be a perfect voter like no one's going
9:23
to. You know, there are some people that that
9:25
vote in every region shout out to them, you know,
9:29
and there are some people that are, you know,
9:31
if you're an older person, how how much are you
9:35
willing to show love to the modern candidates?
9:37
So like I'm kind of looking at it kind of from
9:39
that. perspective first, and then looking in
9:43
and saying, all right, who's close? Who do I
9:45
need to learn a little bit about? So it's been
9:47
a fun process and I hope it continues for many,
9:50
many years. And I got to say this, man, the JYD
9:54
article hit with so many people. I know I've
9:58
talked to people who are, you know, people from
10:00
the South. Actually, my good friend Kenny, Creole
10:04
King Kenny over on Twitch, he actually had a
10:07
really good story because his dad actually was
10:10
a bodyguard for JYD whenever he rolled through
10:13
New Orleans. When he was talking about what JYD
10:19
meant in the area, it's like when you hear the
10:24
stories of John Henry, this mythical man that
10:29
comes into the town and everybody loves him and
10:32
everybody sees themselves in him. the impact
10:37
that this man had on business, like, for Bill
10:42
Watts to be able to drop his racism and to push
10:46
JYD as his top guy in the South, because he recognizes
10:51
what that means. And at that time, you know,
10:55
when we're talking about combat sports in the
10:56
80s and the 70s, like Mike Tyson, Leonard Spinks,
11:03
Muhammad Ali, like you, You had this, I'm back
11:08
to Sonja Liston, and you look at the athletes
11:12
that were big then. Damn, I'm going to say another
11:17
name, because me and Joe Green, because if I
11:19
said that other name, I would be in trouble.
11:21
But let's say it's some drink you have with breakfast.
11:26
OJ. But you had these guys that were stars. And
11:31
of course, they're African -American and Black
11:33
athletes. And for, for a JYD to hit as he did,
11:38
and you know, that's coming off other black,
11:41
black superstars, like, you know, Big Cat Ernie
11:45
Ladd and your, and your Thunderbolt Pattersons
11:48
and your Bobo Brazils and one of the guys that
11:51
got into the Hall of Fame last year in the Mexico
11:54
division, Doral Dixon. Like when we did like
11:57
a deep dive on Doral Dixon, I like learned like
12:00
he was actually not just a top star in Mexico,
12:02
but like He worked on top in New York and WWF
12:05
worked on top. Like he was in Hollywood. He was
12:09
in like Michigan with like working with the Sheik
12:12
and all that stuff. And you learn this history.
12:16
And I wanted to ask Matt, like, because you wrote
12:18
that whole article on JYD and we saw like that
12:24
boost that he got, right? Yeah, it's been a thing
12:28
like like and it wasn't like a media but like
12:31
over the four years that that column has existed
12:33
He's risen up like I didn't take this on when
12:37
he was like in the 40s or you know He was in
12:39
the 50s or whatever and it was like all right,
12:42
whatever I think he was in like the 20s or something,
12:45
right? And I was like, this is dumb. Like yeah,
12:48
and then I was just like, you know what? I remember
12:51
reading King of New Orleans like years ago. And
12:53
then I read it again. And then I wrote that column
12:55
and I'm not going to say it was all up to me
12:59
or whatever. Eventually, you know, the candidates
13:01
reveal themselves, right? Yeah. But you know,
13:06
I'd be remiss to say, Hey, I send this thing
13:08
out every year. And I think, you know, a few
13:10
more people, you know, just either kind of look
13:13
at it. And then just the way I wanted to write
13:15
about it was like the, the, the stuff that I
13:17
felt like junkyard dog doing. My biggest argument
13:22
was like, it's no less historically significant
13:24
than anyone else. Like the money in New Orleans
13:27
spends the same as it does in New York. Right.
13:30
And like, if he was in New York, you know, we
13:33
wouldn't even be having this conversation. Hey
13:36
Rich, remember our whole combo round with JYD,
13:39
which is the other president that's held against
13:41
him. Oh, he used cocaine. Oh fucker, it was the
13:44
eighties. And the other, like the other burn
13:48
was like, oh, he left to go to New York. motherfucker,
13:50
everyone left to go to New York. I mean, like
13:53
the real issue is like, obviously the cowboy
13:55
was mad that he left. And I think some of it
13:58
was, I think these stuff, those things that are
14:00
sticking to JYD are things that like everybody
14:03
else did. It just, they stuck to JYD. But I mean,
14:07
as you're saying, he was a huge draw in the South.
14:10
And then he went to WWE and he was like, you
14:12
know, he was the B draw for a period. Then he
14:13
drew money elsewhere. And he was like a really
14:15
important figure because like, but I think what
14:19
held them back, because before we started the
14:21
show, I actually was watching Dark Side of the
14:23
Ring on JYD. And the footman, the foot soldier,
14:28
Mr. America, Tony Atlas, said on there, like,
14:32
you can't be doing what the white man be doing
14:34
and getting away with. That's not you. So I think
14:40
we're all people of color. That's not a lie.
14:47
I think that it's amazing what he accomplished
14:50
in pro wrestling, not just in Mid -South, not
14:54
just like in the Superdome, but like what you
14:56
said, being the B draw for WWF. And he, you know,
15:01
he had a fall off, but a lot of guys have a fall
15:04
off, like after that big run. And, you know,
15:10
cocaine is a hell of a drug, to quote, Rick James,
15:14
but I believe that The work speaks for itself.
15:18
The legacy is what it is. You talk to any Gen
15:21
X wrestling fan, they know a couple of names.
15:25
They know Macho Man. They know Hulk Hogan. They
15:28
know Andre. And they know the dog. So who that
15:32
going to be that dog? Yeah, I think this is the
15:36
year he gets in. So hope it happens. We've had
15:39
this conversation before. I had the point where
15:41
I almost literally... One of the reasons I asked
15:44
Dave for a ballot, I got a ballot this year.
15:46
I was like, I'm going to vote for JYD. I think
15:48
we got the right candidates in Mexico in last
15:55
year. And I want to get JYD in. So that was kind
15:57
of like my dot. And I want to make sure that
16:00
people vote for Monet, or my two key drivers
16:02
for getting this ballot. Yeah, he was like right
16:08
on the doorstep. He was like 59%. What ends up
16:12
happening with JYD all the time is he gets these
16:14
massive numbers on the public ballot, and then
16:16
he does really badly in the private, right? Which
16:18
is like, so the people who don't share the ballot
16:20
don't really go with him. But like, you know,
16:22
we have been kind of campaigning for a while
16:25
to try to get him in, right? So, I mean, we got
16:28
to keep the noise up. We got to get him in. Yeah.
16:31
By the way, if you want to follow public ballots,
16:34
go to HOF tracker on Twitter. That's run by JML
16:41
and his buddy there. They do really great work
16:44
when it comes to Wrestling Observer News Hall
16:46
of Fame. Of course, JML, you would hear him on
16:49
here, but unfortunately, he has a prior engagement.
16:52
But you heard him here with us for a full 10
16:54
hours talking Hall of Fame last year. He's got
16:59
to pass. He's earned a pass. Yeah, yeah. And
17:02
I think the other person that Rich did write
17:05
about, of course, And you were a big proponent
17:07
of her last year. You almost convinced me last
17:10
year. Mercedes Monet. You can see her influence
17:16
in the wrestling business across the globe. She
17:20
is a global star. And her influence in wrestling,
17:26
you hear all the young people talk about her.
17:29
You can hear the Japanese talent like Kazuki
17:32
and them talk about her. She's this superstar,
17:36
she's inspirational. And it took me a while to
17:41
get there. But I think I might be on board now.
17:47
One of the really interesting things is somebody
17:49
like, I'm probably gonna try to share my screen
17:51
a little bit, but like, some people kind of like
17:53
one of the things I argued about last year, and
17:57
I said, look, she's one of the great, like, will
18:00
make anybody look like a star, like I could probably
18:03
work for a star much with Mercedes because she's
18:05
that damn good. And so one of the voters, like
18:10
one of the guys who hangs out, like Sugisul,
18:11
like basically went out and did analysis and
18:14
like looked at all the matches that are on cage
18:16
match. And he found that the two greatest carried
18:18
like statistically, like the two people you want
18:21
to be working, if you want to get like a really
18:22
good score on cage match or from Dave are Mercedes
18:25
Monet and Kentik Vasha, right? These are the
18:28
two people who will get you the best, the best
18:31
lift relative to your average score. So like
18:35
she she can like the person most likely to carry
18:37
Carmella to a great match right and I think one
18:41
of the things that's been kind of interesting
18:42
is I think Mercedes case has gotten stronger
18:45
the further away we get from the horsewoman and
18:48
while Becky's case has gotten weaker right because
18:51
essentially while Becky like did get like super
18:54
duper over at one point we can kind of see that
18:57
like and this has been my argument with like
18:58
Mercedes not only is she great at making everybody
19:01
look like a million dollars but like I think
19:04
she is the most important like US women's wrestler
19:08
ever. Because if you take her out of the equation,
19:11
then what the hell does the women divisions in
19:14
the US look like? Because effectively, anywhere
19:18
she goes, she's like the most important piece
19:20
of making those people look so good. She sets
19:23
up the rest of the horsewoman in Charlotte in
19:26
particular for her career. And we know how WWE
19:29
holds Charlotte up. It's all... pretty much on
19:32
the back of Mercedes, like really. And then like
19:34
she had these unique challenges that no one else's
19:38
face is like, I feel like her degree of difficulty
19:40
is way higher. Have you ever, have you ever heard
19:47
the line about like Michael Jordan did it against
19:49
plumbers? You ever heard that? Oh yeah. Mercedes
19:52
kind of did it with, had to do it with plumbers.
19:57
And models and fitness models and like people
19:59
like, and again, like, no, no, like I'm not.
20:02
And dealing with them getting pushed over her.
20:06
That's another element to this that I don't think
20:09
people necessarily think about. Her Booker was
20:12
Vince McMahon for the first 10 years of her career,
20:16
or however long it was, the first decade of national
20:19
television. It was Vince McMahon. It don't equate.
20:24
She's not a muscle woman. She's not a powerhouse.
20:28
She's not blonde. buxom, you know, um, she's
20:34
like a smaller, you know, competitor. And yet
20:37
time and time again, she found herself more over
20:40
than anyone with more like diehard fans with
20:43
greater matches than everybody with like having
20:46
to fight for those few spots that existed ever.
20:51
And then you, you take a, you know, what she
20:54
did ever since she left WWE and it gets like
20:57
even clearer in my eyes, just like. every belt
21:01
everywhere. Her ability to just make people like
21:04
look at her match with Vakera, look at her match
21:06
with Maya, look at her match with Ekko. These
21:10
are matches of like, my god, just make this person
21:12
look like the best. I think there's a stat, I
21:17
forget exactly how many people she's like given
21:20
the best match to, but it is a significant match.
21:24
The series with Willow is excellent and she made
21:28
Willow. losing that New Japan Strong title to
21:32
her. And talk about New Japan Strong, she was
21:35
used as a draw for New Japan in the US. And her
21:38
shows drew strong for strong. I also want to
21:41
say this, she has the best theme in wrestling.
21:44
Shout out to whoever made that. Oh, oh shit,
21:46
Rich Lada. Yeah, I think, I think she's just
21:54
very historically significant. I think she's
21:56
got a work case. She's got a historical significance
21:59
and you know, there are drawing elements. You
22:02
know, I'm not someone that necessarily digs that
22:06
deep into the numbers and everything like that,
22:08
but I just remember hearing about her effect
22:11
on Smackdown on Fox and when they would send
22:13
her to NXT and go head to head with Dynamite,
22:15
all her quarters would kill. And then like, you
22:19
know, This past year, she was in number two match
22:22
at all in essentially. And going into it, you
22:25
know, everyone was saying she had to hot our
22:28
program. So, you know, she's not going to get
22:30
credit for that obviously, but I think it's just
22:33
important to mention. And, you know, she's like,
22:37
like she's somebody I think that is really important
22:39
to the women that are coming after her. And you
22:43
can just look at how she lifted her peers. Like
22:46
people are going to follow the Mercedes Monet
22:48
blueprint. And that could be someone she's often
22:53
compared to now, like Kendall Grey. When Kendall
22:56
Grey gets tired of things in WWE, however it
22:59
is, and she's like, damn, I could be the top
23:00
woman internationally, essentially. Maybe I step
23:03
in and sign with AEW and then work for all these
23:06
other companies. She literally opened the door
23:08
for people to do that in America. Yeah. You don't
23:13
really see American women wrestlers sort of have
23:18
this path post WWE. Usually the path they go
23:21
on is, okay, I'm done. I'll go to TNA and then
23:25
I'll do these conventions and make my way on
23:28
these conventions. So it's really great to see
23:33
Mercedes make that path for these wrestlers and
23:36
let them know that there's life after WWE. There's
23:40
a real life after WWE. And yeah, these are just
23:44
such... I just wanted to talk Mercedes and JYD
23:48
because Rich pretty much wrote the articles on
23:51
them. Pretty much made a strong, strong, strong
23:54
case for them. And Arturo, man, we went over
24:00
most of this modern class last year. I don't
24:02
think most of them actually got in. But I mean,
24:06
you could list them and then we could talk about
24:07
the two guys that are. So last year in modern,
24:12
the people got the candidate to win were CM Punk.
24:15
Cody Rhodes and Sabu Punk got 66, Cody got 64,
24:24
Sabu got 64. Because it's 61 % to get in, right?
24:28
No, it's 60 plus. 60. Anything over 60, right?
24:34
Okay. And it kind of became important because
24:35
at one point, so Tiahousa was 59 and he almost
24:40
got in, but like there's a miscount, like he
24:42
didn't get in. We talked about JYD, he's 59,
24:45
and I think for the next closest for modern was
24:49
non -wrestler was Ted Turner, which again, I
24:51
blame Brian Alvarez for that, because he's a
24:54
non -wrestler, but Brian made it a lay appeal
24:57
for people not to vote for Ted Turner, and so
24:59
Ted Turner did not get it before he died, so
25:02
I blame Brian for that one. He did, like, no,
25:07
I mean, here's the thing, I wrote the case for
25:09
Ted Turner, I've been advocating for him. I thought
25:12
he was going to get in last year. There was good
25:14
momentum. And then like Brian kind of like, oh,
25:16
he's never like, and it's just off of even off
25:19
of like that documentary that came out last year.
25:21
And then I talked to like a lot of guys that
25:24
do like the WCW podcast. It's like my buddy Corey
25:27
over there from Voices of Wrestling. There's
25:30
a lot of what Ted Turner means to pro wrestling
25:33
because without Ted Turner, there is no pro wrestling
25:37
on cable television. because that show existed
25:41
before you would say people don't understand
25:44
that Ted Turner came up with cable like pretty
25:46
much had a whole cloth right and it was his thing
25:49
and he made wrestling like a centerpiece for
25:52
it and he for a good 30 years made sure that
25:56
like wrestling was a viable national proposition
25:58
right and he put like he gave contracts to everyone
26:02
he was a strong supporter he was a fan he was
26:05
like he was part of the george wrestling war
26:07
he's part of the like black one like and without
26:09
him vince and his dad basically like take over
26:13
way sooner so it is the there there's probably
26:17
not a more significant figure from a positive
26:20
perspective wrestling that that turn are really
26:22
on this ballot right and i'm in the wrestling
26:25
business um but uh arterial you know let's go
26:29
over like the so the closest guy Let me go, the
26:33
closest guy in modern was, the closest was briscoes
26:40
who got 49 % last year. And so let me actually
26:44
get the, so the candidates for this year, the
26:50
briscoes who got 49 last year, and Simojo who
26:54
got 37 last year, the hardy boys who got 36,
26:58
the Steiner's who got 35, but haven't been as
27:01
high as 62 before. And I kind of, we'll talk
27:03
a little bit about that. But I kind of feel like
27:05
that they might be the Steiner's year this year.
27:08
John Moxley, who got 32 last year. Randy Orton,
27:12
who got 35. Or actually no, Randy Orton got 32,
27:15
but he's been a size 35. Becky, who got 28. Edge,
27:20
who got 28, who's been a size 50 before. Bill
27:25
Goldberg got 27, he's been a size 31. The Outsiders
27:31
got 21. mercedes got 11 which we gotta like we
27:35
gotta we gotta we gotta pump those numbers baby
27:37
uh trish who got 11 and seth rollins who somehow
27:42
improbably just to make me look bad got 10 and
27:45
the reason i say that is because seth like is
27:47
the i think that's is the only the second person
27:49
ever to get back on the ballot for a third time
27:51
And I basically went on a whole tear about why
27:54
the hell is Seth Rollins back on? He's been voted
27:56
off twice, right? He managed to stick around
28:00
this time. The only other person who'd do that,
28:03
there's one other person who does, AJ Styles.
28:06
But in AJ Styles' case, the third time he got
28:08
on was basically after being the best wrestler
28:11
in the world in Japan for two years, right? And
28:15
then coming into WWE and everyone was like, yeah,
28:17
he's all the way, but we gotta get him up now.
28:19
Then the new candidates or returning candidates
28:22
are Batista who's been as high as... Batista
28:24
hasn't been on a while. He was on like 2011 to
28:29
2013. He got as high as 17. Booker T was on I
28:36
believe before 2011. He never actually rated
28:39
and Kane who was on in 2012 and immediately fall.
28:44
And then we got Gunther or Walter and we got
28:49
the probably the worst candidate, in my opinion,
28:52
the worst candidate ever to be in a Hall of Fame
28:53
ballot from like, again, non - I'm talking about
28:58
from a wrestling perspective, not from a real
29:01
life perspective. It's not like Dick Murdoch
29:03
being a member of the KKK. This is like from
29:06
a not qualified to be on this ballot, Jeff Jarrett.
29:09
But he's on the ballot and he's probably going
29:11
to stick to level J. He's probably going to stick
29:12
around for a good 10 years. Oh, man. Well when
29:17
I think about these guys right the guy that sticks
29:20
out to me the most from these new batch of candidates
29:22
is Batista Because of how big of a draw he was
29:27
global. Um, I'm gonna say this I I Was not a
29:32
but the I was not gonna be a Batista voter, but
29:34
I've been talked into I could kind of go into
29:37
it later and I'll explain a little because like
29:39
essentially when you think about the post uh...
29:43
what it was there's like a big bulldozer because
29:45
the report or people laugh and so it goes into
29:48
the toilet and that first year of defeat the
29:50
comes in with that rossamania under he's responsible
29:54
for turning the business around and then i want
29:56
to take a look at it it's him to start the year
29:58
then they put the rocket on cina in uh... so
30:01
do you have to be a bit of the first draft Sina
30:04
gets drafted to Raw, they strap the rocket on
30:06
him. And pretty much for that period, for like
30:08
2 -5 to 2 -10, until like Batista leaves, it's
30:11
really both of them on the both brands. And some
30:14
of them, sometimes they're not, but they're really
30:15
the two figures. And really, you know, Sina is
30:17
1A, but Batista is like very clearly 1B. And
30:20
he's like a significant draw, and he's like better
30:23
work on some of that. So the case where we're
30:25
comparing him to Goldberg, and I've talked myself
30:27
into it, because if you add in like his broader
30:29
cultural significance and kind of like... You
30:32
know dudes become like a massive star too. And
30:34
I think that like For that period. I mean you
30:37
got to look at that as a hot period and really
30:39
he is the one being assumed as one a right more
30:42
than more than edge, right? I feel Because like
30:47
I know a lot of my cousins. I know a lot of like
30:50
my Filipino brothers out there. Shout out to
30:51
you Zack Sabre jr. Shane Hayes My Filipino brothers
30:55
out there, but uh Like he was basically the gateway
30:59
to WWE for a lot of Filipino wrestling fans,
31:02
a lot of Asian wrestling fans. It was really
31:05
Batista and John Cena that opened up that side
31:08
of the world to pro wrestling. Because like you
31:11
hear like groups like the guys in BTS love John
31:15
Cena. And these same people love Batista because
31:19
these are the two figures, these two superheroes.
31:22
And I think that what they brought was stability
31:26
to WWE after those first couple years of what's
31:30
happening next after the invasion, after all
31:33
this, after all the big stars left, what's next?
31:36
And what was next was John Cena, Batista, and
31:39
to a lesser degree, Rey Mysterio, Edge, and Randy
31:42
Orton. I think one thing I could say about Batista
31:46
is it was always - appreciated from him how he
31:49
always got better. This was a guy that had like
31:52
a late start in the business. I think like he
31:55
was like 35 or something when they crowned him
31:59
or something like that. I'm not sure. Something
32:01
like that. I know he got a late start in the
32:02
business and he didn't have time to waste. So
32:06
he immediately became a star. And as you mentioned,
32:10
that program with Hunter pretty much like saves
32:14
like so much of like the goodwill, you know,
32:18
that is just begging to be had from the hunter
32:21
thing. And, you know, you take his run, like
32:25
you mentioned 2005 through 2010, you could talk
32:29
about even the comeback or whatever in 2014 to
32:33
where he was there for six months. And it's a
32:35
fascinating six months as you look at that, what,
32:39
12 years later. Or so he's basically pushes his
32:43
baby face. He's kind of just out of touch And
32:46
then he flips it on a dime and they push him
32:48
as a heel. He's excellent He's doing, you know
32:50
big business with Danielson they do the whole
32:54
shield and evolution thing. He's a huge part
32:57
of that and You can just look at like obviously
33:01
the guy was a draw and you could see like he
33:05
was somebody that I think a lot of people just
33:07
gravitated to. And you really can't tell the
33:10
story of WWE or even wrestling in general, in
33:13
my eyes, without a guy like Dave Batista, like
33:17
in that time, because a lot of people turned
33:20
away from wrestling, I think, that decade when
33:23
he comes along. It's post Attitude Era, it's
33:26
post Austin Rock and just post WCW. It's like
33:32
who are the new people and he's one of them.
33:34
Like you see that guy on a commercial. It's like,
33:35
Hey bro, who is that? Like, and you know, I,
33:39
I just think over time, but he says, and then
33:43
you can talk about when he came back again, what
33:45
Hunter in 2019 and like going into that WrestleMania,
33:49
they were, they were killing their quarter hours.
33:51
Like they were, you know, cutting these great
33:53
promos and like, you know, producing business
33:55
and, um, you know, the magic really wasn't all
33:58
that by the time they got to, uh, Cross mania
34:01
35, but they were old as hell then. But when
34:03
you add it all up in totality, like this is somebody
34:06
that meant something to wrestling in my eyes.
34:09
I mean, I think the thing with him, and I have
34:10
the numbers up here now, I mean, they were down
34:13
to about 700 ,000 tickets in 2004 before they
34:16
did that. So essentially like you'll forget they
34:18
called the reign of terror, which is the big,
34:20
long triple H reign, which is a disaster. And
34:22
then like he ends it at that mania and tickets
34:25
are up 70 % that right. everybody buys are up
34:29
20 but again like the thing with it is it's like
34:32
there's two reasons it's batista early in the
34:34
season and early in the year and like the back
34:36
half of the year is the read the cina rocket
34:38
right and again really 2005 2010 when batista
34:42
leaves is is both of them on the both brands
34:45
but i mean it's kind of important that really
34:47
they're kind of like moving them back and forth
34:50
eddie's also there so there's some some of that
34:52
is also eddie but like i think batista and cina
34:55
of the guys who were there are the two most important
34:57
And when he comes back in 2014, I mean, the tickets
35:00
do go up. He's there for half a year. So tickets
35:02
do go up. So it's part of tickets coming back.
35:05
They launched Network, which is kind of like
35:07
they do that on the back of what he's doing.
35:09
But like, that's kind of weird because he does
35:11
actually like, he quits in June and he like basically
35:13
just like f's off because he doesn't like the
35:16
creator in 2014, right? And again, like by that
35:19
time, I think he's already kind of like working
35:20
on, he's working on the Marvel stuff. And he's
35:22
like, you know, he's well on his way to being
35:24
like a very successful. And also they don't believe
35:27
him. They don't believe him that this Disney
35:30
movie this Marvel movie is gonna hit They left
35:33
him off. Oh, yeah, whatever. He'll be back He
35:36
was bringing them Guardians of the Galaxy to
35:38
help promote summer summer. They said now we're
35:41
good One of the biggest movies of 2014 would
35:45
like with what he says like but he says legitimately
35:48
a good act, right? He's a legitimately a guy
35:50
directors good directors love to work period
35:57
I mean, yeah, I mean like I mean You know, that
36:01
takes, there's a, well, Woody Strode is also,
36:04
but like, if I mentioned Batista with Woody Strode,
36:07
that means Batista's doing a fucking great job,
36:09
right? So Roddy was really fucking good, too,
36:11
in some roles, too. It's like, but Batista is
36:14
in that, like, elite echelon of a guy who just
36:17
can, like, is just great because I think directors
36:19
love him because he has no shame. He's like the
36:22
best, it's like, Cena's a little bit like this,
36:24
too, where Cena will do fucking anything. Like,
36:26
some of the best stuff - Just watched the Oscars
36:28
last year. Yeah, he's and you put him in a comedy
36:30
just he has no shame You'll do whatever you need
36:32
him to do. It's the same thing with Dave They
36:34
will do whatever is needed to get something over
36:37
and I think ultimately But the point being and
36:41
I mean depends on how you feel that because the
36:44
run is really 2005 2010 and it's like it's not
36:47
a full run because he gets hurt so like three
36:49
and a half years then about half a year in 2014
36:52
and then like the other comeback, which is that
36:54
great? So really it's more like it's like a four
36:57
-year period, right? The point of comparison
37:00
we use is Goldberg on this. For point of comparison,
37:04
Goldberg's run, I have the exact numbers, double
37:07
ticket buys. They literally double ticket buy
37:11
for the year that both Goldberg was on top for
37:14
WCW. But it's a really, really short run. You
37:17
do have with Goldberg that he comes back later,
37:19
and he has a great run when he comes back. But
37:22
I kind of think, honestly, I've been talked into
37:25
going through it. I think Batista, if I'm comparing
37:28
Batista to, like, Randy, he's better than Randy.
37:32
If I'm comparing him to Cope, he's better than
37:33
Cope. If I'm comparing him to Goldberg, I have
37:36
to give the edge to Batista, right? So I'm like,
37:38
if all that's the case, right, then I kind of
37:42
have to say, well, I mean, like, you're also
37:43
right in the Reign of Terror, and, like, you
37:45
look at everything else, and to me, that he's
37:48
winding up. He's like, yeah, I've got my balance.
37:49
He's winding up as a yes. I've got him as, like,
37:52
yes, I'm going to vote for Batista. Which I wasn't
37:55
planning to but like I've talked myself into
37:57
it. Okay. Oh You know, we talked about reign
38:00
of terrors. We talked about guys Throwing business
38:05
away and and being you know, uh repellent to
38:08
business Let's talk about it the king of finessers
38:12
the all -time greatest finesser in pro wrestling
38:15
maybe We got jeff jerry j e double f j a double
38:22
r e double t Somebody somebody else somebody
38:26
else take it first before I come in and bury
38:28
them, please Ten ten go go go mr. TNA ten and
38:35
a Well, well could you even put that as a positive
38:40
for him? Be honest creating TNA fine, but well,
38:46
I mean here's the thing like so like there's
38:48
a guy we Know the voters called white mark. He
38:50
has a system. He says you got drawing work rate
38:54
historical significant. He says Like, he raised
38:57
people from 9 to negative 2. 9 is, like, if you're
39:02
a 9 in work rate, you're a Masao, right? And
39:04
if you're negative 2, that means you're fucking
39:06
everything up. You're a negative influence. Like,
39:08
you're bad, right? And Jeff is the first candidate
39:11
I've ever rated negative in 2 category, because
39:14
he killed WCW, right? And he, like, I kind of
39:19
feel, I mean, he was constantly burying, like,
39:22
going on top and he was very somebody was like
39:24
more doubted and he's actually and it was sort
39:28
of thing that is also a negative because my ongoing
39:31
argument is like if if if if if that there is
39:34
something else was like and never get to the
39:36
rest of it here it doesn't exist i think the
39:38
u .s. wrestling scene is better off here it is
39:41
I got one question for you though. I'm looking
39:43
at your chart here and I see the outsiders with
39:46
a six in this same category. And then I have,
39:49
I see Jeff Jarrett with a negative of help kills
39:51
WCW. How did Jeff Jarrett kill WCW more than
39:55
Kevin Nash? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So
39:59
I'm separating. Your point is valid. I should
40:02
basically, essentially I would probably give
40:04
him a seven or eight without the fucking Booker.
40:08
It's really complicated like the outsiders are
40:11
really complicated case because it's like if
40:13
you get to a nine That means like they could
40:15
probably so I'd be fine with the outsiders in
40:17
the Hall of Fame possibly on a good day, right?
40:20
Whereas Like double J if he didn't exist I feel
40:24
like wrestling would be better off right or if
40:26
he if he went into like singing Or he went into
40:29
like go. He sold gold for living, right? Which
40:34
is an old teenager, but but effectively the problem
40:37
the other problem with this is Here's the problem
40:39
with TNA, right? And I say this as a former and
40:41
from employee, right? TNA was never run under
40:46
any fiscal rule, under any sort of reality of
40:51
economics, right? So they didn't run it as real
40:53
business. It was essentially run as a vanity
40:55
project. And because of that, you have this business
40:58
that was a second business. It basically made
41:02
the idea of a second wrestling company in the
41:04
US. like a laughing stock. It devalued that idea.
41:08
It made it a non -serious idea. And it made it
41:11
much, much, much, much tougher for an actual
41:13
second promotion to emerge. And it took somebody
41:15
like Tony Khan, who had like the deep pockets
41:17
to make it do it. And even then, we're in a situation
41:20
where people are like, ooh. You have to fight
41:22
the skeletons of that. So, I mean, I have a hard
41:26
time. And people like him because like, Jeff
41:29
Garrett is catastrophic. I'm saying like, as
41:31
a worker, I'm saying he's fine. And the reason
41:34
I say he's fine is because he's very charismatic.
41:36
He can do the comedy worker like routine in incredible
41:40
punches. But here's the thing. So could the honky
41:44
-tonk man, right? And I'm not putting the honky
41:47
-tonk man on the spot, right? If you actually
41:49
see Wayne Ferris like in Memphis, he's actually
41:52
really fucking good, right? And nothing against
41:57
Jeff, but like what is Jeff Jarrett's best match?
42:01
I mean, he's, he's had some good ones. Like you
42:04
probably saw him against Brian Christopher back
42:07
in 93. Uh, he had the one against angle and Oh
42:11
nine. Of course, the one with Sean Michael was
42:13
in what the 95 in your house. Yep. 95. Yeah.
42:17
But are we putting him in off of that? No, I'm
42:20
not putting him in as a, as a wrestler off of
42:23
my special work. Nah, like he's somebody that
42:27
I think like he had the ability. But if you look
42:31
at like what he was doing in the nineties, he
42:36
was not in an era that was like, Hey man, you're
42:39
in, you're in the WWF attitude era. He there's
42:43
no work rate. Canada. It's really emerging out
42:45
of there. Uh, after a certain point, um, go over
42:49
to go to WCW. You're not a cruiser weight. What's
42:52
the incentive to work hard. I mean, we want to
42:57
compare guys who are on a similar scale, maybe
43:00
a little bit more. Somebody like Rick Martel
43:02
was a really good fucking worker. Somebody like
43:04
Dino Santana was a really good fucking worker.
43:07
And my argument is like, I don't know, I mean,
43:10
I don't know why in the world is stiff Jared
43:12
on this balance. It's the thing that I'm like,
43:14
I mean, I guess he's friends with people, but
43:16
good Lord, why are we even having him on this
43:19
balance? You know what I think it is? I think
43:22
it's like that CNA Dark Side of the Ring that
43:24
dropped. Jeff Jarrett is an ultimate likable
43:26
person. Like three episodes. Yeah, he's an ultimate
43:30
likable person. Everyone loves him. Nice guy.
43:35
And I think he has been around for so long. I
43:39
know when I watched it and whatever level of
43:42
BS was in it, I'm sure there was a bunch of BS,
43:44
right? Because it's Dark Side of the Ring. But
43:46
I had left watching that like, wow. wrestling
43:50
needs more people like Jeff Jarrett in it. Like
43:54
people that have visions, like even if, you know,
43:56
they don't have it all together, like, you know,
43:59
monetarily, like Jeff Jarrett is a hustler. Jeff
44:01
Jarrett is a, he's a connector. Is he a Hall
44:04
of Famer? I'm not going that far, but like I
44:07
see the reverence. Yeah, absolutely. I've made
44:15
my case for it. I feel like, I feel like he was
44:18
actively armed. And I think if he like, I mean,
44:22
I think he's, he's fine. It's a comedy guy working
44:24
on the beat, but like, that's not what we don't
44:27
live in that world. Right. We live in the world
44:29
where he like, he was, he was, he was like, ah,
44:32
double J wins again. Right. Like, um, and I have
44:37
to kind of like judge him by that and judge him
44:39
by that. Like to me, he's like, he's the only
44:42
person I've ever read it negative and together.
44:44
I'm like, why? Uh, I throw, I throw a bro. So
44:48
just just like to fast forward how I think so
44:52
Jeff Jarrett Kane Booker T Perfect WWE Hall of
44:57
Famers. I mean, I think I like to like I want
45:01
to I'm gonna You're putting me in a position
45:04
staff that have been Kane and Booker T, right?
45:06
Um, so Kane was legitimately a draw at times,
45:11
right? and he's legitimately a guy, he's not
45:15
a great worker by any stretch of the imagination,
45:17
but he's a safe worker and he's a believable
45:19
guy in that role. It is kind of funny, we had
45:22
a long conversation on it and we realized that,
45:24
like, you know where that gimmick came from,
45:26
both the Undertaker and the Kane gimmick, right?
45:28
We basically figured out that it probably came
45:31
from Jason at Terrible in Puerto Rico because,
45:33
like, all the boys who like basically the boys
45:35
in the office in puerto rico were like that gimmick
45:37
was a four and they essentially like brought
45:39
it over to wwe but made it even more or less
45:42
like jason right i don't know if you like rich
45:44
are you familiar with the jason al terrible gimmick
45:46
no so it's like did they dress this big dude
45:49
as jason right friday the 13th jason and so like
45:52
he worked he worked in puerto rico he worked
45:53
in fmw but again all the people in the puerto
45:55
rico office in the fmw office are like you know
45:58
it's like the guy who's gorilla's kid you know
46:00
So like, that's probably how they got like, oh,
46:03
let's do the monster gimmick in WWE, but even
46:07
less, let's make it even less apparent that we're
46:09
basing it on like Jason, right? And so it came
46:12
in the other day. When Kane first came out, like
46:15
I think he's a terrible candidate, right? But
46:17
that year, like when he first shows up and he's
46:19
just appearing and not letting people wrestle
46:21
matches and seeing that as a kid, this was an
46:24
awesome spectacle. I mean, here's the thing.
46:28
He's a monster hero, which is what he was. He's
46:31
a decent monster hero who had like good longevity.
46:35
He was, I mean, I mean, he's objectively not
46:38
a good worker, but he's not like a singer, right?
46:43
He had a pretty good career. Yeah, he had a pretty
46:46
good career. He was he's pretty, you know, remarkable,
46:50
as in he's a iconic kind of character for people
46:53
of a certain age. you know a lot of us here are
46:57
there were times there were times in the editor's
46:59
area where he was like at worst the second like
47:02
for a short period or it's the second biggest
47:04
draw in the company right uh yeah so definitely
47:07
in 99 and 2000 i mean i went to i went to a raw
47:10
right uh in georgia where like basically it was
47:14
like the most over people in that raw were like
47:17
kane were kane and the rock there's a whole thing
47:19
about like basically like rock and kane on the
47:21
mic like they actually get really working But
47:23
I remember the whole thing about, like, Rocket's
47:26
Kane to say, boom, dang, bye. The progress goes
47:29
crazy. Obviously, guys, different era, right?
47:32
But I will recognize that Kane was super duper
47:38
over to the point that I have to kind of say
47:40
he's probably about worthy. He is definitely
47:44
not a whole thing, but, like, he's not nowhere
47:46
near the category of, like, Dipterre. He's ballot
47:51
worthy. That's what I what I'm saying. He's ballot
47:53
-worthy Perfect WWE Hall of Famer kind of guy
47:56
and Booker T And Booker T is a guy who I mean,
48:01
he's not nearly as big as a draw as Kane Although
48:03
he has periods where he's working on top when
48:06
they're doing that particularly on the smackdown
48:07
and also WCW He's a guy got buried by oh a black
48:12
wrestler got buried by Jeff Jarrett. Oh my god.
48:15
That's that's so strange When did that happen?
48:19
Oh god, and then like He's a better, like I've
48:21
got him as a two, he's probably more like a three
48:22
in terms of work rate. He's a, he was a very
48:24
good worker at times. It's a little bit tricky
48:26
because like his claim to fame, if you know,
48:29
he's, it's a series with like Benoit and Benoit
48:32
was like only one of the best wrestlers that
48:34
ever lived, right? In terms of work rate. I'm
48:36
not talking about this personality. Let's not
48:37
get into that, but like, it's like, it's really
48:39
hard not to look good when working a series against
48:41
like somebody like Benoit. Although Booker T
48:43
is a decent worker, also a decent tag guy. Like,
48:46
so he, I mean, i'd probably be a little bit too
48:49
low he's probably like a seven because i do think
48:51
there's historical significance there in terms
48:53
of how he's presented on tv and kind of like
48:56
like his prominent role he wasn't the first but
48:59
he was an important kind of figure in terms of
49:02
that i think he's one of the like i think it's
49:04
him and the rocker like i think i like the only
49:06
guys like actual get it like a title win for
49:08
like a top belt on wwe tv like i said black black
49:12
men to get a uh... for for I think Mark Henry,
49:18
I don't know if Mark Henry ever got a title win
49:19
on TV. Yeah, he got it on pay -per -view in 2011.
49:24
He got the world heavyweight belt on ordnance.
49:27
WWE is not very good with representation. And
49:30
so, like, there is some historical significance.
49:32
So I do think Booker T is a less. Booker T is
49:35
a ballot king, right? I'm not going to say he's
49:38
not he's not a Hall of Famer, but he's ballot
49:40
worthy. Does that make sense? Yeah, it feels
49:43
like he's going to going to. that fall off the
49:46
ballot zone. I'm struggling with it because I
49:52
think a lot of stuff that I loved about Booker
49:53
T was how cool he was, right? But cool is subjective,
49:56
right? And then I don't necessarily find the
50:00
King Booker stuff cool, but that's when he actually
50:03
got a push in WWE, right? You got his WCW, but
50:09
if you know anything about those world title
50:11
reigns, You kind of got to throw all those out
50:14
in WCW. So it's like, you know, everything with
50:17
the lawsuit and they were scrambling and, you
50:20
know, in 2000, man, they was, they was just putting
50:22
the belt on whoever the fuck. But, um, yeah,
50:26
it, I just feel like there should be more of
50:30
like, there's no drawing case whatsoever. I feel
50:33
like the work rate, as you said, when you take
50:37
away those Benoit matches, we not really working
50:38
with much at a top level. And we'll talk a little
50:42
bit like, so some of those, like when they were
50:44
Harlem Heat, right? They were a great tag team.
50:48
That tag team is great, and they're working some
50:51
great, great teams. Those nasty boy matches,
50:54
man. Those nasty boy matches. Those nasty boy
50:56
matches, spider matches. That shit was the bomb,
50:59
right? So he was legitimately, I'm going to say
51:01
he was a legitimately great tag worker, right?
51:03
So he's a legitimately great tag worker. He is
51:06
a good worker who can work elite matches with
51:09
league competition. He's kind of put in a prominent
51:12
like a position on TV. He does well with it in
51:15
a hard period So again, he is ballot worthy,
51:18
right? But he doesn't like he doesn't click anything.
51:21
He doesn't click White he doesn't click anything
51:24
to me that says Hallowframer. He's all quite
51:26
good. That makes sense, right? He's he's almost
51:29
there Tony kook up Tony kook up. Yeah, that's
51:32
like Yeah, but no dude, yeah And that brings
51:39
us to the one guy that made the ballot, the most
51:42
recent domination we have here, who I think is
51:45
done dirty by being put in the US division. Gunther.
51:50
I mean, Gunther. I keep saying Gunther. I said
51:53
that, by the way, before that freaking clown
51:55
on TV has been saying that. I'm Gunther. So yeah,
51:58
let me just calm myself. You know what one of
52:00
my favorite feuds, independent feuds, non -US
52:04
feuds ever is? There's a great view, the WXW
52:08
view, which is Ilya and Gunther, Ilya and Walter
52:12
versus the Osseo. That view, and it's kind of
52:17
like, and again, Gunther is like perfect for
52:20
working this style of like big heel program.
52:23
But that particular feud with him, with like
52:26
baby Cal Fletcher, with like Mark Davis, with
52:29
the comebacks from Mark Davis, and like obviously
52:31
Gunther and Eli just working on top of their
52:33
powers. Just kind of, I mean, Gunther is, sorry,
52:36
Walter is a guy who is so good at that particular
52:39
style of feud and just making somebody look like
52:41
a million dollars, right? And he's actually like
52:44
quite good at the main event style for WWE too,
52:47
and like what kind of style of big building.
52:49
I think the problem with him is a little bit
52:51
of a Sami problem where like, I know he's one
52:54
of the greatest workers ever, he's one of the
52:56
greatest peer workers ever. He's at this great
52:58
body of work, but like, we're in the part where
53:00
WWE is very angry. Even though they gave him
53:03
the win over Cena, but right now he's getting
53:05
very angry. But it's just kind of funny that
53:06
Sami had something like that, Sami Zayn, and
53:09
Sami got buried, but now I think Sami's eventually
53:12
gonna get back on the balance, probably might
53:14
get into the hall, because he's actually having
53:16
like, for WWE... quite a decent run right now
53:19
on top. They finally get the ball, right? And
53:22
I think what's going to happen is like numbers
53:25
are up after the CM Punk run after CM Punk drops
53:28
the belt to Sammy numbers are up. Here's the
53:31
thing. Like we're talking about, I mean, Generico
53:33
is one of the greatest workers of all time. So
53:35
like every time they like, every time Generico
53:38
has been like close to the top, it's been really
53:41
good. He's like, he was critical for NXT. They
53:43
put him. on the bloodline thing. And I, and again,
53:45
I think history will bear me out when I said
53:47
that the most important person for the bloodline
53:49
was Sam. Right. And I think like he's even saying
53:52
that in promos now, it's all like it might stick.
53:54
Yeah. But getting back to betting, getting to
53:59
Walter, the application here to Walter's, I do
54:01
think Walter has a Walter will eventually have
54:04
a top level WWE run. I kind of think because
54:08
it's just, I've seen him do it. Right. It's just,
54:12
that office is so fucking broken that we're gonna
54:14
have to wait three or four years he's gonna pull
54:16
off the ballot like even though he probably shouldn't
54:18
because i mean the work right there but he's
54:21
not he hasn't had that that run on chop to get
54:25
him over to me he's a hall -famer but i'm not
54:27
going to vote for for a while yeah uh i'm gonna
54:31
compare his case a lot to tomohiro ishii because
54:34
like i think like i am i am i am insulted for
54:37
walter for that comparison keep going i think
54:39
walter is better than ishii oh yeah But like,
54:43
you know, I'm thinking about the matches where
54:44
I've seen him live. I saw him and Keith Lee destroy
54:47
each other, like live. I saw him kill Zack Sabre
54:50
Jr. for the PWG belt. I've seen, you know, that
54:55
match, because I know Rich talked about it, like
54:57
the match three years ago of Sheamus Drew and
55:00
Walter at WrestleMania just beating the shit
55:02
out of each other. I was there in person when
55:04
he wrestled PCO. That thing just turns up out
55:08
of nowhere. We're gonna we're gonna mention i'm
55:10
gonna mention the cancelled guy careful, like
55:12
I love this feud with david star. That's a great
55:14
feud I mean, I mean regardless of i'm not gonna
55:18
get into that but like the feuds off the work
55:20
with i've seen with the devil in view Like I
55:22
could see I could see myself voting for walter
55:25
one day just looking at his match list Which
55:28
is just disgusting like it's on the top level
55:30
of like of almost anyone by the way people who
55:33
have it again I mentioned at the start people
55:35
who haven't seen the ilia walter versus Aussie
55:39
open feud run to find it you can find it on fun
55:42
It is so fucking good because like particularly
55:45
like baby baby cow fletcher celly is so good
55:48
Uh, it's yeah, I gotta say this too. Uh, if you
55:52
if we get the weight back on walter Please if
55:56
we get the weight back on him because like I
55:58
think that would play into it kind of like He
56:01
like he lost the weight great for him great for
56:04
his knees, but like he lost weight Yeah But I
56:08
think he's a good enough worker to get around.
56:10
I think it's just like it's a matter of like
56:13
they because WWE like it's all these politics
56:17
and they put like they just don't put the right
56:18
guys on and like, oh, they when they do put these
56:21
guys on, they actually like move business. We
56:23
keep saying, hey, you should put this guy on
56:25
and they don't do it. I think it's the same thing
56:27
with Walter. It's like, brother, you should be
56:30
doing that. But no, we got to do more Roman because
56:32
Roman brother. We got to do more Roman and we
56:35
got to put Walter versus dine housing. Yeah.
56:37
He's just booked incredibly bad. It's just going
56:40
to make it hard for him. Like, you know, like
56:42
I said, I just ran out of votes or else I would
56:44
have considered them. But it's, I don't know
56:48
how he's going to necessarily add to his case
56:50
without that top level push. headlining one of
56:54
these summer slams, headlining one of these wrestlers.
56:56
Oh, he did headline one summer slam against Sam
56:58
Punk. Headlining one of these WrestleMania's
57:01
or something like that, because retiring people
57:03
doesn't move me like it didn't move the office.
57:05
Like they still see him at the same level. Like
57:08
he's one of those, the second guys. Yeah. He's
57:13
only 39. So I mean, like he's like, yeah, he's
57:17
going to get it. When he's like proper 40, you
57:19
know, he'll get a run with proper four. Yeah.
57:23
And that covers the modern list that we have
57:27
for Wrestling Hall of Fame Wrestling Observer
57:30
Newsletter. And I wanted to go over your public
57:33
ballot, Rich, because you ended up posting that
57:36
on your Twitter, which I find great. We need
57:40
more public ballots out there. And I wanted to
57:45
go through it because I really found your picks
57:48
interesting, man. And yeah, I'm going to go through
57:53
them. Because I wanted to look at it, what you
58:00
got. So for historical performer candidates,
58:06
you voted for the Bulldogs, Arne and Tully, June
58:10
Byers, JYD, the Heart Foundation, Sputnik Monroe,
58:15
and the Von Erics. I want to go through your
58:18
thought process on them. Yeah. So just quickly
58:21
on these, so I don't take too much time. So I
58:23
thought those three tag teams, um, were probably
58:26
my picks out of all of them. I thought they all
58:28
brought something to the table that's kind of
58:30
ripped off to this day. Um, and I think, you
58:34
know, aren't until you're a great team dynamite
58:37
kid and Dave Boyd Smith were trendsetters. They
58:39
wrestled a ton of those matches against the heart
58:41
foundation junkyard dog kind of goes without
58:43
saying that's been, you know, my long run cause
58:45
June buyers. I ended up reading a column from
58:47
Jonathan Snowden. you know, looked at where she
58:50
was previously. I'm like, I feel like if she's
58:52
that close, I need to, you know, look at it.
58:55
And I'm like, oh yeah, I probably should vote
58:56
for her. Sputnik Monroe being a draw to African
59:02
-American crowds and like, you know, a little
59:04
bit of working, you know, there like getting
59:07
his money and stuff, but being cognizant enough
59:09
to, you know, put that many people in the houses.
59:13
And the Von Erichs, you know, I did the movie
59:16
work on me. I don't think it did, but, uh, you
59:20
can't talk about Texas and world -class and like
59:24
they're eerily similar to junkyard dog. Like,
59:26
as far as like the time that it all went down,
59:31
they had their own region of the country. They
59:33
were hot as anybody. Um, you ever watched any
59:37
of those women when the Vauners made their insurances?
59:40
No, those are Hall of Famers. Can you hear the
59:44
squeals? You can definitely hear the squeals.
59:46
Yeah. Oh my God. So like, you know, I was trying
59:51
to think who was my most difficult cut there
59:55
on that one. Just looking through our ass, like
59:59
Wild Blue Curry and Bob Ellis and Oli. Yeah,
1:00:05
Oli Anderson. I was looking at Pampuro Furpo
1:00:08
as well. I'll probably be looking more into him.
1:00:10
Oh yeah. Fampiro Furpo, a lot of his run is actually
1:00:14
takes place in Hawaii and Australia. So he gets
1:00:18
a lot of like footage that's hard to get to get
1:00:20
a hold of. Yeah, I mean like right now, right
1:00:23
now I'm more on I'm personally on Oli and like
1:00:28
Gordon and Goliath because I've looked a lot
1:00:30
of LA and Gordon Goliath and like Dave's another
1:00:32
guy who loves them and I agree with him. They're
1:00:34
like super duper over. Yeah, because I'm kind
1:00:38
of like an important lead attack team, but I
1:00:39
mean I get some I mean some of that I'm like
1:00:42
I'm an anti Bulldogs guy and my arguments like
1:00:45
Davies already in and I Sorry, yeah, so the bullet
1:00:50
dynamites in Davy I'm not sure of and like I
1:00:53
feel like we get a little bit over station with
1:00:56
grids So like it's not that I don't think they're
1:00:58
deserving Hall favor, but like they're not a
1:01:00
priority for me in that picture So that would
1:01:05
be my difference on you. But I get voting for
1:01:09
the Bulldogs, to be clear. Yeah. And you also
1:01:15
voted in the modern US North America division.
1:01:19
You voted for Big Dave Bautista, Mark A. J. Briscoe,
1:01:25
Goldberg, Samoa Joe, John Moxley, and the CEO.
1:01:34
Mercedes Monet. I agree. I agree. Yeah. Just
1:01:40
quickly on those, we talked about Batista a little
1:01:42
bit earlier. I just think he marked a period
1:01:45
in time and was a top star, did great business,
1:01:48
had good enough matches, and was a unique enough
1:01:51
performer. I think he stood out over somebody
1:01:54
like Copeland in my eyes. Mark and Jay Briscoe,
1:01:57
they feel like the other side of the coin are
1:01:59
the Young Bucks. uh, in my eyes and you got some
1:02:02
singles work in there. You probably don't, you
1:02:04
have a, you have it on a smaller scale for sure,
1:02:07
but I think they're so good as far as, you know,
1:02:09
their longevity and how, you know, their matches
1:02:11
are, uh, they're, they're on there for me. Uh,
1:02:15
Goldberg, I was there, man. I'm, I'm a WCW, uh,
1:02:18
voter and you know, uh, a live -ist, you know,
1:02:21
I will always spread the gospel of people in
1:02:24
WCW that contributed to WCW that made it work.
1:02:28
Samoa Joe is somebody I've recently come around
1:02:31
on just for the fact that he gets to the top
1:02:33
of every company there is. And I think he's so
1:02:35
respected amongst, you know, his peers, fans,
1:02:39
such a unique guy with tons of great matches.
1:02:44
Even, you know, some uneven booking throughout
1:02:46
his career. No, no question. But he finds a way
1:02:49
in one sneaky thing that I don't think people
1:02:52
recall about Joe is in 2017. When he's feuding
1:02:57
with Brock Lesnar, they are popping numbers.
1:03:01
They are popping numbers. And then like after
1:03:03
he beat Samoa Joe, right? The interest for WWE
1:03:06
on Google trends, it falls off a cliff, literally
1:03:10
after Joe. And anytime they would push Joe, it
1:03:13
would work, right? I've mentioned this before
1:03:17
and I'll mention it again. There's a couple of
1:03:19
things like, so when he comes in to... NXT he
1:03:21
comes in on this deal where like supposedly he's
1:03:23
gonna stay working on the end he's just coming
1:03:25
in for dates and immediately walks in he's one
1:03:28
of the biggest mortars in the company he's like
1:03:29
and they immediately go like they tear that up
1:03:32
like no you're coming in full -time right then
1:03:34
that year when he's working that you're right
1:03:36
like they do that great ball supplier factory
1:03:38
with the others and if you go look at the numbers
1:03:40
for those like houses when he works Roman and
1:03:42
he works a Brock and they're like big -ass numbers
1:03:45
that he pulls like really big numbers on that
1:03:47
and if you go look at the video game for that
1:03:50
year he's the guy in the video game so like they
1:03:55
were very much prepping for like giving him a
1:03:58
run on top so like everything looks like they
1:03:59
were gonna push him on top at the time and the
1:04:02
problem is he gets hurt but like there was every
1:04:04
indication because you know that he works for
1:04:06
a man he works for a rock they're working even
1:04:09
they're building him up they know he's drawing
1:04:11
they're gonna push him on top he just has bad
1:04:13
luck and like gets hurt and so like they never
1:04:15
do actions but they were thinking about it really
1:04:19
hard and I think another thing with Samoa Joe
1:04:23
which I mentioned is every time you go into one
1:04:25
of these mechas or buildings where like the hardcore
1:04:28
fans are he's always one of the most the person
1:04:30
who's the most overt and I think a large part
1:04:32
is because he's a guy who probably sold more
1:04:34
videotapes than anyone right he was over like
1:04:37
rover in france man in france like people who
1:04:40
are buying tapes from the rh era from that era
1:04:43
and we don't have the numbers like the first
1:04:45
time they see those people and shit like yeah
1:04:47
yeah i mean like david the first time they go
1:04:49
to france and he gets like that godlike reaction
1:04:51
he was he's over in uk he's over in japan he's
1:04:54
over in mexico people were getting these tapes
1:04:56
and getting these like matches are very familiar
1:04:59
with sumo joe because he's an he's the important
1:05:01
figure like he's the guy working like danielson
1:05:04
he's the guy working kentucky lawson he's the
1:05:06
guy like you know he is he's sumo fucking joe
1:05:10
right like by the way like who's your who did
1:05:15
you cut like because like for me like you're
1:05:17
Your ballot is very similar to mine. And I'm
1:05:19
like, I'm kind of like that last vote for me.
1:05:21
Who was your last vote by the way? So looking
1:05:24
at the U .S. region as far as my last vote, it
1:05:28
was definitely not Trish. It was not Seth Rollins.
1:05:33
Who was it? It might have been Becky. That's
1:05:38
where I'm at. Like right now I have Becky. I
1:05:40
have Becky at like five or six. And I'm like,
1:05:45
I'm kind of like if I I'm debating her, or Goldberg,
1:05:50
or Spinos. It's kind of where I'm at, right?
1:05:53
I think I've kind of like, because God, she really
1:05:55
has kind of like, like as for this case, it's
1:05:59
gotten stronger. They feel like they're going
1:06:01
two different ways in their careers or whatever.
1:06:04
And I chalked that up to Mercedes being like
1:06:06
five years younger than all her direct contemporaries,
1:06:09
which is like, she's, it feels like Mercedes
1:06:13
has. For me, how I look at him, like, do you
1:06:15
hit this imaginary marker in your career? And
1:06:17
everyone's is different, right? And like, in
1:06:20
my eyes, Randy Orton has never hit the marker
1:06:22
in his career still. He's 46. I feel like Mercedes
1:06:25
has already put enough on the board that if she
1:06:27
got hit by a bus, we'd be like, yeah, bro, that's,
1:06:29
that's it. Like, and then everything now she's
1:06:31
in the bonus for me. And Becky is just like,
1:06:35
has stalled out seemingly. Did you know that
1:06:39
like Mercedes is three and a half years younger
1:06:41
than Bianca? Yes. I wrote that in the column.
1:06:45
It's the same. It's like, she's like, she's 30,
1:06:48
she's not even 35 yet. It's so insane. We're
1:06:51
looking at 10 to 15 more years. Dude, it's similar
1:06:55
to like the Megumi Kuro or the Manami Toyota,
1:07:00
like having this sort of like legendary career
1:07:02
and not even being 35 yet. It's, yeah, it's like,
1:07:05
it's a little, you know, I mean like, I think
1:07:06
Okada is kind of like the column. Yeah. It's
1:07:09
silly, right? And you know, you're speaking Okada,
1:07:12
so let's go through like the land of the rising
1:07:14
sun, which you voted in. You voted for Hayabusa,
1:07:20
Kenta, Tamnakano. I love my Twilight Princess.
1:07:27
Zach Sabre Jr. and The Great Sasuke. Solid picks
1:07:30
there, man. Yeah, as far as Japan for me, like
1:07:35
I'm just say this, people are going to laugh
1:07:38
or whatever, but. Hayabusa and Great Sasuke,
1:07:40
that's Habanero and Black Ninja from the video
1:07:43
games to me when I was a kid. So like, that's
1:07:46
how I knew of them. And then, oh, they were actually
1:07:49
great in real life too? Oh, okay. Easy vote for
1:07:52
me. Hayabusa has picked up a lot of steam in
1:07:55
recent years. And you can just see the, you know,
1:07:58
historical significance, the influence and all
1:08:01
that. Kenta, I read Case Low's column, really
1:08:05
enjoyed it. Turned me on to a lot of information
1:08:07
about Kenta. That you know, I didn't necessarily
1:08:10
have like I had only ever started watching kenta
1:08:13
when he came to NXT You know, I had a large gap
1:08:16
in my wrestling viewing throughout the 2000s
1:08:20
and then you know I've gone back and you know
1:08:21
watch some of the great kenta matches and I'm
1:08:24
like, oh, he's the guy that everyone ripped off.
1:08:27
Oh I recommend watching Danielson versus kenta.
1:08:34
I recommend You know, I recommend definitely
1:08:38
Kenta versus Marufuji. My biggest recommendation
1:08:41
is Kenta versus Ricky Marvin. Three minutes of
1:08:43
the best wrestling we're ever going to see. By
1:08:45
the way, I'll mention this. Kenta versus Sua.
1:08:49
Oh, yeah. Judo Sua, man. We did some analysis
1:08:51
on award shares versus all -time matches in terms
1:08:57
of award shares awarded by the one voters or
1:09:00
some sort of voters and the percentage of great
1:09:03
matches, either rated by Dave or an encased match.
1:09:06
And this is a list of the best works. It's like
1:09:08
Ric Flair, Misawa, Kobashi, Okada, right? If
1:09:12
you go, OK, the guys who are in the top corner,
1:09:15
who's not in the hole, right? And it's like Will
1:09:19
Ospreay, Mox, Zack Sabre Jr., Joe, Kenta, and
1:09:24
somehow Davey Richards, who had a period where
1:09:26
like, who was like, but like, it kind of is telling
1:09:30
the guys who come up on that list. And then the
1:09:32
next tier is like Nigel and Mario Fuji. Otani
1:09:36
and ricochet edge and yeah, Adam page Phoenix
1:09:40
and Jeff Hardy. Yeah Yeah, sack is a guy who's
1:09:48
grown on me I I was not like a huge supporter
1:09:51
sack initially, but I do think that he's done
1:09:54
like he's he's very much brought on I think the
1:09:56
stuff he's doing now with the tags how he's kind
1:09:59
of like he kept going He is definitely a guy
1:10:02
who kind of deserves the kudos Like by the way,
1:10:06
like my I'm actually like, you know, you know
1:10:09
in Japan I'm gonna probably vote strategically
1:10:11
rich Yeah, very much. I know Hayabusa is gonna
1:10:14
get in so I'm not gonna vote for Hayabusa He
1:10:17
was so close last year at 59 man See right now
1:10:22
where I'm sitting is I'm voting like tiger I'm
1:10:25
voting Sasuke Sasuke does not get enough credit
1:10:27
like we we've got How many hours do we have,
1:10:30
like, on the Jacob? We have, okay, after today,
1:10:33
we have about 40 hours on the J Crown. The impact
1:10:37
of Sasuke, not only through the Jacob and all
1:10:41
the junior work, and then going on finally with
1:10:43
Chanoka Bro, which is a lot of people's favorite
1:10:45
motion. And the work he's done to put people
1:10:49
over. And people understand, this is like the
1:10:51
Norteña promotions in Mexico. He's done it outside
1:10:54
of the metropolitan Tokyo area. It's really important
1:10:58
for the business in Japan. He has a huge historical
1:11:00
significance, an incredible worker. To me, here's
1:11:04
the point I'll make. Sasuke fell off the ballot,
1:11:06
but the year he fell off the ballot was one of
1:11:07
the most insane years in Japan. I think it's
1:11:10
like 96. Sasuke, I'll find it real quick because
1:11:14
it's one of these... Okay, he falls off. I think
1:11:18
that great Sasuke, he represents a lot for the
1:11:22
style of junior heavyweight wrestling, the independent
1:11:25
era of pro wrestling in Japan, Hayabusa also,
1:11:29
but Hayabusa has that one New Japan match. He's
1:11:33
an underrated draw too. Yeah, you know, Hayabusa
1:11:37
and Sasuke also started their careers in Mexico,
1:11:40
which, you know, last year I felt so happy that
1:11:43
Gran Hamada got in. Yeah, so essentially, Sasuke
1:11:47
falls off. Him and Amada fall off. But it's a
1:11:51
year that basically it has... It's Sakuraba,
1:11:58
Chono, Ultimo Dragon, Don Fry, Amura, Hase, Funaki,
1:12:03
Hachikom, Volkan, Jurakiya, Seiji Sakaguchi,
1:12:08
Amada, and then Sasuke and Amada fall off. But
1:12:12
I'm like, yeah, if you look at that... That's
1:12:15
four or five votes and with all those names man,
1:12:17
and I was like, yeah I mean like he wasn't gonna
1:12:19
get any votes at that time, but it really is
1:12:20
2004 We're 22 years from that in terms of like
1:12:24
mission ochre bro still being a thing, right?
1:12:26
Yeah, I think that is Kind of a critical. Well,
1:12:29
he's also like, you know, he's a politician.
1:12:31
He's like like a statesman He's got a lot of
1:12:34
really good positives. So to me is a guy that
1:12:36
I definitely have like Also a really nice guy
1:12:40
if you're gonna message him on Twitter message
1:12:43
him in Spanish, because he will respond in Spanish.
1:12:46
We were going to talk about here, of course,
1:12:48
Tom Nakano, one of the best joshi wrestlers,
1:12:52
one of the best wrestlers of the last 10 years.
1:12:55
And, you know, one of the best bookers I've ever
1:12:58
seen in pro wrestling with what she's done and
1:13:00
started on. My God, Tom Nakano, absolutely with
1:13:05
it. No, that's important. Do we officially know
1:13:07
that she has the book? We don't. We don't. We
1:13:12
assume. Is it kind of like Panico or like kind
1:13:15
of like the Interpol A situation? She's like
1:13:18
the Shadow Booker. She's the Shadow Booker. She's
1:13:20
like Taker, but really it's not Taker. Oh, we
1:13:25
got to confirm. It's Borash. Yeah. It's Borash,
1:13:27
not Taker. It's Borash. Yeah. Thank you, Roy,
1:13:30
for confirming that one. But yeah, so Pam's really
1:13:33
the person working with Taro Kata. It's important
1:13:38
because I do think it's kind of like The run
1:13:40
that started is on is a run that like really
1:13:42
has to be incredible like Because they lost all
1:13:46
the they lost all the supposed stars. They lost
1:13:48
Rossi and they've never missed and I think she
1:13:52
she is the most critical person to making side
1:13:55
right so like You know, I mean then they had
1:13:59
she's kind of like in that door man They had
1:14:01
to see me crawling on her knees back. So like
1:14:03
she what she wasn't my favorite amongst like
1:14:06
all the people that were there so like I look
1:14:08
at 2023 Stardom as like when Joshi was all whole,
1:14:12
essentially. There wasn't Amerigold. Everyone
1:14:13
had not started leaving for America yet. It was
1:14:16
like the loaded lineup. You had Shuri and Utami
1:14:18
doing their thing. You had Julia and Tam. You
1:14:21
had the young people like Saaya Kamatani on the
1:14:25
rise. You had Azumi. You had Starlight Kid and
1:14:28
like... Yeah. It's like a little floating around.
1:14:32
Like there was just like, you know, all the other
1:14:34
foreigners, uh, that, that came in after a while,
1:14:36
there were no foreigners, uh, with COVID and
1:14:38
all that. But what brought it back for me for
1:14:42
Tam was like, everyone that I liked was on the
1:14:44
other side of Tam. Like I was always rooting
1:14:46
against him to Connell that's a boy. Um, you
1:14:49
know, I was really big fan of, and then, uh,
1:14:52
she joined Tam and I was heartbroken. And I was
1:14:54
like, damn, I thought you could be a star on
1:14:56
your own. And then she became like a underling
1:14:58
to Tam. And then. There were just so many people
1:15:01
from Marissa Hoshiki that I loved, uh, what was
1:15:04
on the opposite side of Tam. And then Saia ends
1:15:07
up on the opposite side of Tam and then eventually
1:15:09
like she feeds her a career essentially. Um,
1:15:11
I liked Julia, uh, more, more than Tam at the
1:15:15
time. And it was just like, okay. But the reason
1:15:17
like I was investing in all these views, I was,
1:15:21
it wasn't necessarily to see someone beat Tam,
1:15:23
but Tam would just ended up there. And she's
1:15:26
like this through line from 2019. almost to the
1:15:30
time she retires of stardom of like this small
1:15:33
company exploding. And some people are going
1:15:35
to point to Mayu Watani, they're going to point
1:15:37
to others. But I think people that were really
1:15:40
watching it closely, every time it was like those
1:15:43
long stories with Tam Nakano would keep looping
1:15:47
back around. And there is no separating Sayaka
1:15:50
Matani's success from Tam Nakano. It would almost,
1:15:54
I remember at the time, there was an oddly, there
1:15:57
was like a parallel. It was like what Kenny Omega
1:15:59
was doing for Heyman Page was what Tam Nakano
1:16:02
was doing for Sai Kamatani. And we were covering
1:16:05
it in real time on One Nation Radio. And it was
1:16:07
like, I don't know if people see it like that,
1:16:09
but obviously her retirement drew and she developed
1:16:14
into a really great wrestler in her own right.
1:16:18
I think the look may throw some people off, but
1:16:20
like, I feel like she deserves to fight the battle
1:16:23
on the ballot and similar to a Mercedes in a
1:16:27
sense. I'm like, if she falls off the ballot,
1:16:29
I think it's embarrassing and embarrassing from
1:16:32
a, from a standpoint of we do not have enough
1:16:35
voters that are, that have watched this really
1:16:38
important part of Japanese wrestling, which was
1:16:39
stardom from, you know, the, the late 2010s into
1:16:44
right now. Like that has to be represented, especially
1:16:47
like for When Bushiroad was in charge and then
1:16:50
they sold and everything like that. Or I think
1:16:54
they still have started actually. When they're
1:16:56
indie promotion and then they get bought by Bushiroad,
1:17:00
all this stuff is important. And all they've
1:17:01
done is like turn out wrestler after wrestler
1:17:04
after wrestler that has come out and get signed
1:17:07
by companies in America. And the person that
1:17:10
was there that was this great storyteller, this
1:17:13
great wrestler. and this brutal fucking wrestler
1:17:17
like that doesn't even look like it is Sam McConnell.
1:17:20
So like, yeah, in my mind, like I was like, when
1:17:23
I was looking at the Japan, I was like, oh, yeah,
1:17:25
let's start with Tam and then we'll figure out
1:17:27
everything else. I kind of call her like for
1:17:31
what she was for Stardom. She knows she was not
1:17:33
the ace, but she was the anchor of the promotion
1:17:36
for like seven years. Yeah. And just absolutely
1:17:41
great run from her. Who else was on your like
1:17:45
like So I thought about EO, but like, I didn't
1:17:51
know how to necessarily separate like, all right,
1:17:53
how much of this stuff is she done in WWE? Where's
1:17:57
that? Like I'll, I'll look at EO another time
1:17:59
because she's somebody else I would consider
1:18:01
voting for. Um, I also was looking at, look,
1:18:07
Tiger Jeet Singh. Like I had heard the stories
1:18:10
and I'm like, I think I need to check into this
1:18:11
terrible wrestler from everything I hear, but
1:18:14
super draw. With a no key. I could see myself
1:18:19
like, you know, looking into it in the future.
1:18:24
My thing with Jay is he is the, like, he is the
1:18:29
urban foreign heel. Like he is the trope -namer
1:18:32
of foreign heel. He is the most important heel
1:18:36
in New Japan history. And I did say New Japan
1:18:39
history, there is no more important heel. Like
1:18:41
without him, like... You know, he was really
1:18:43
struggling and tiger is the one who helps him
1:18:46
put the button seats, right? And if he's so poor
1:18:49
to that run so influential for that and so copied
1:18:52
I mean they reran they're ready. No key. There's
1:18:55
one of the best views in Puerto Rico is they
1:18:56
read in the inoki Tiger did sing to Puerto Rico
1:19:00
with Carlos Corona because Ayala and like everyone's
1:19:02
a y 'all attacks at coloner his wife at a dinner
1:19:05
banquet and like breaks this glass trophy on
1:19:08
cologne who's wearing all white and like everybody's
1:19:11
covered in blood and so it's really there because
1:19:14
like the thing with the dnoki uh tired of saying
1:19:16
uh famous talk on the mall is there's a video
1:19:18
but the carritos and eclas they got the video
1:19:21
right yeah uh and so i mean like i'm smiling
1:19:24
and he's there's there's like he was drawing
1:19:27
he look at some of the houses he drew with fmw
1:19:29
in the night so Mean Tigers today at the after
1:19:35
FMW reunion show for the Megumi Kudo For the
1:19:38
show the other part The fact is that he's apologizing
1:19:43
because he didn't bleed enough for him. Come
1:19:45
on. Yeah, he's a household name in Japan He's
1:19:49
also kind of like also a meter. He's done a bunch
1:19:51
of like charity work in Japan He's like a he's
1:19:55
also like a he's somebody who's taking the name
1:19:58
of wrestling like very well place so I do think
1:20:01
To me I kind of have to start with him because
1:20:04
like as bad a worker than he is there is no like
1:20:07
Japan is in Japan Also big in the community and
1:20:14
Brampton and Ontario's yes works works really
1:20:17
well in that community and you know You're being
1:20:19
a Puerto Rico. So let's bring up the non wrestlers.
1:20:21
This is the last Like so I so what do you think
1:20:24
of somebody like Takiyama Yoshihiro Takiyama
1:20:28
I thought great wrestler like for sure but like
1:20:32
falls short like just in comparison to You know
1:20:36
the list that I had already somebody in the future.
1:20:39
I might look at I've grown on him because like
1:20:42
he's he's my cut right now. He's the one I'm
1:20:44
debating whether I like if I drop I might drop
1:20:47
him if I drop him I might go to fuck yeah Because
1:20:51
like really he's a guy who was a real he's obviously
1:20:55
got he's got the fright the hammer fight, which
1:20:57
is legendary He's also a very underrated draw,
1:21:00
a great worker. They would bring Takeyama in
1:21:04
when business was struggling, and he would get
1:21:07
money for everything. Takeyama -Nakamura match,
1:21:10
because there's two, right? There's the first
1:21:12
one where Takeyama beats him as a young boy.
1:21:15
And then there's the second one where it's Nakamura
1:21:17
fully evolved into Swag Skate. And without that
1:21:21
match with Takeyama, he doesn't become fully...
1:21:24
The main event Shinsuke Takayama. Takayama is
1:21:27
the guy who's like, I'm definitely voting for
1:21:30
Takayama at some point. I just don't know if
1:21:33
this year, because I do kind of feel that Tam
1:21:35
probably needs to vote for. So it's one of those
1:21:38
kind of like, I have to like think about it.
1:21:40
Kento was the guy I worked on the server and
1:21:41
I voted for. But I thought about it and really,
1:21:44
you know, you remember how big he was in the
1:21:47
scene of time and how important, how relevant.
1:21:50
Looking at this, like, I mean, Kakeyama is the
1:21:55
one that jumps out. Mochi I love but I can't
1:21:57
see my lovely. Yeah with these guys on the list
1:22:01
it's hard to go back to Mochi because Mochi's
1:22:03
case is entirely uh it's a longevity and uh and
1:22:06
a wrestling case. I love Mochi by the way I want
1:22:08
to be clear that I love it but like but no. I
1:22:11
love Mochi I love Mochi Jr uh you know we saw
1:22:14
him like as a young boy in the j -cup 95 uh crazy
1:22:18
stuff there uh let's talk let's talk let's talk
1:22:22
non -wrestling. Yeah. Non -wrestlers. Rich Lada
1:22:27
voted for Jim Johnston, Gorilla Monsoon, Rossi
1:22:32
Ogawa, Tony Schiavone, Kevin Sullivan, Iron Mike
1:22:37
Tenay, and Ted Turner. Damn. This is a very WCW
1:22:40
list you got here, brother. It sure is. Yeah.
1:22:44
That bottom four. I'm going to ask you Rossi.
1:22:47
Okay. Talk me the Rossi. So Rossi for me is like...
1:22:53
in charge of that stardom run for sure that I
1:22:56
just spoke so lonely of up until the split and
1:22:59
the sale, you know, until he sells to Bush Road.
1:23:04
Depending on who you ask. I loved his booking
1:23:07
style when I was watching it. You can take it
1:23:11
back. You know, they say he was involved in AJW
1:23:14
back in the day. For me, that's almost enough
1:23:18
right there. If you were involved in AJW and
1:23:21
you were built up stardom to the point that a
1:23:23
corporation had to buy it out from a small independent
1:23:25
repotion, I'm probably going to vote for you.
1:23:32
Yeah. I mean, that's good, but probably yes.
1:23:36
Well, that same small success. He has plenty
1:23:39
of fails with JD, uh, Marygold. He had promised
1:23:43
when we started, but it's been slipping off.
1:23:47
It's tough. Don't forget Arjun. He got that failure
1:23:53
with Arjun. I feel like Rossi's case has gotten
1:23:56
weaker because of the fact of how successful
1:23:58
they've been after him. To me, it does look like
1:24:05
the girls deserve a little bit more credit. It's
1:24:11
tough, right? I'd love to get a deeper case on
1:24:16
him. It's like a little bit like solid or like
1:24:19
we've just got a ballot or like I don't like
1:24:21
there is a case But I don't know the justification.
1:24:25
I need more detail sense You know what like I'm
1:24:29
gonna point out because like I've been thinking
1:24:31
about voting for Tony What what what did you
1:24:35
decide to like like like push down and vote for
1:24:38
Tony's um, I would say for me like I'd never
1:24:44
Like when I look at Gorilla Monsoon and Tony
1:24:46
Schiavone and I would hear how bad they were
1:24:49
for other people, I would always kind of go the
1:24:51
other way. I'm like, they made me care about
1:24:53
everything. They made everything epic. They were
1:24:57
on the call for some of the biggest things that
1:24:59
ever happened. And like they like defined the
1:25:02
companies in my mind. And I think Schiavone is
1:25:06
just somebody everybody likes. I don't hate them
1:25:09
in AEW either. Um, I know, you know, some people
1:25:12
say, yeah, he might, you can push a button on
1:25:14
them and I'll say a line and stuff like that.
1:25:16
But I think that he's just like, if you look
1:25:19
at it from the eighties, like from Jim Crockett
1:25:23
promotions all the way up, they send them to
1:25:26
the WWF for a year. And it's like a fish out
1:25:28
of water, but they're just like these, uh, you
1:25:31
know, kind of, Oh, that's weird. That happened.
1:25:34
And then he's right back in WCW, like almost
1:25:36
nothing ever changed. And I feel like I watched
1:25:40
the Turner Network wrestling, right? And the
1:25:45
voice of that wrestling is Tony Schiavone. What
1:25:50
else? Yeah, that's pretty much it. I think he's
1:25:55
like, could it have been anybody else? Maybe,
1:25:59
if they were there as long as him, but they weren't.
1:26:02
I think Tony to me is a guy who does not get
1:26:05
enough credit for being really important for
1:26:07
AEW. I think, I mean, I obviously the role with
1:26:11
him and Alan's voice is kind of like the most
1:26:13
critical voice for X &W. But I think he's been
1:26:15
of the booth more than anybody else to me. He's
1:26:19
the steadying influence. He's the guy, you see
1:26:21
him on like what he does, these like, like bike
1:26:24
segments and video segments. He's the guy who
1:26:27
basically kind of like keeps it together, brings
1:26:29
it together to me. Right? Like, uh, and he's
1:26:32
actually like, look, like him and Nigel actually
1:26:34
have got good chemistry, right? And like, he,
1:26:37
like, he, or like, he has great chemistry with
1:26:38
like a light or like, like, so Tony's kind of
1:26:41
like, and he had great chemistry with Britt at
1:26:43
the start. We will forget that. Like the segments
1:26:45
with her, like, you know, Britt being good on
1:26:47
the mic, a lot of that was, she was really good
1:26:49
working with Tony. Right? Um, and again, full
1:26:52
credit to Britt too, but like he has been. kind
1:26:56
of like an underrated figure in terms of the
1:26:59
veteran announcer and the voice that people kind
1:27:01
of trust and know being on the mic. And I think
1:27:03
that I want the point. I think it was it like
1:27:06
clicked with me during the Fox special where
1:27:08
I was like, he was the guy who kind of used the
1:27:10
guy. Yeah, he's the guy who's keeping it all
1:27:12
together. And I was like, man, I mean, because
1:27:16
like who's seen more and been around more than
1:27:18
Tony Schiavone. It's only like Jim Ross at this
1:27:21
point. And Jim Morales is a guy who's a very
1:27:23
problematic figure. You can kind of like look
1:27:25
at it. And Tony's never been that, right? Tony's
1:27:27
a guy who like, it's funny because every single
1:27:29
female performer who's ever worked with Tony
1:27:31
speaks loyally of Tony Shalani. Like I've heard
1:27:34
the interviews. They love him. Like, like Britt
1:27:36
and I know like Missy and like everyone just
1:27:39
speaks like incredibly well of him. And I think
1:27:43
that's like, that's kind of really important.
1:27:44
Like, I think like we underrate, I think he's
1:27:47
a guy that like is very important to that market
1:27:49
and important to that. like Booth, right? And
1:27:53
I mean, I feel like he's a guy who's very important
1:27:57
to this wrestling world right now. What about
1:28:00
somebody like Stanley Weston? I know it's been
1:28:03
a public conversation. I know you didn't vote
1:28:05
for him, but I'm curious. Stanley Weston, I have
1:28:10
not really done much research on him. So he's,
1:28:12
by the way, I'll mention it because he's the
1:28:14
guy who did all the boxing mags and all the,
1:28:16
he's the pro wrestling wrestler, pro wrestling
1:28:19
illustrated culture. Uh, and he's the guy who
1:28:22
founded all that he's already in the box And
1:28:24
so like to me he's the guy that like i'm kind
1:28:27
of like i'm he was a scientist He almost got
1:28:29
in once and I almost feel like I kind of have
1:28:31
to because historically nobody's done before
1:28:34
for like Like those mags to me when I was in
1:28:38
Puerto Rico, right? Like how am I getting a lot
1:28:40
of this territory stuff? Like you go to the newsstand
1:28:42
It's all the mags that he put out and he made
1:28:44
sure to have out there for like showing me the
1:28:47
stories and telling me the stories of what's
1:28:49
going on right i think that like it's maybe for
1:28:52
older voters like me it's kind of like a really
1:28:54
important part of fandom right maybe a little
1:28:56
less for younger fans but but to me it's something
1:28:59
that like i mentioned um anybody else who was
1:29:03
like anybody who was a cut for you or anybody
1:29:05
who you like who left on the bench you thought
1:29:06
about you know i i thought about zane brezlov
1:29:09
um and also uh salvador uh So third and I was
1:29:15
like, you know what? I'm gonna take a little
1:29:17
bit more time on that just because anything could
1:29:19
happen to see him LL at this point Same as a
1:29:24
guy who was really critical for WWE. He did live
1:29:28
events that Goldberg run He was part of that
1:29:30
goal He's like the guy who brought in and like
1:29:32
even Dave kind of expected like live events pick
1:29:34
up because like really good and there was like
1:29:36
I think Dave kind of like also took a shot because
1:29:38
like like, you know, like Jeff didn't hire St.
1:29:42
Brasloff. St. Brasloff is available. He brought
1:29:43
him into new life business, right? I don't know
1:29:48
where I'm at on that because I do think there's
1:29:49
more deserving people in front of him. I mean,
1:29:52
we talked about Ted. I'm the guy who wrote the
1:29:53
article on Ted. And I think people should start
1:29:57
there. And I agree. Gorilla is really important.
1:30:01
Gorilla also had a hand. And Gorilla was critical
1:30:04
in providing the money for starting the Puerto
1:30:05
Rico office. Puerto Rico territory. And Colón
1:30:09
of those guys. Gorilla was a guy who was there
1:30:12
at the start and helped that get off the ground
1:30:14
And he like worked a bunch of matches here So
1:30:16
he's like he's really important to that territory
1:30:18
too. So that to me helps this case as well Kevin
1:30:22
is a guy who's underrated as a booker. I'm not
1:30:25
a Kevin guy, but I respect someone like I mean
1:30:27
I understand why you go today is a guy who is
1:30:30
really important in terms of like making a new
1:30:32
job and can like bringing that to the floor and
1:30:35
like He's a guy who's got like influence everywhere
1:30:39
Like I think I you know, I'm gonna vote for him
1:30:41
because I do think it's also He's probably like
1:30:44
he's the guy who's best whose case is most helped
1:30:46
by TNA, right? Like where I'm like, I'm generally
1:30:49
not a guy who leaves TNA helps your case, but
1:30:52
I do think in Mike's case I do think it's a real
1:30:54
positive. Um Yeah, but I mean like I think like
1:30:58
I like I have a sweet spot for Dave Brown But
1:31:00
I don't know that he's necessarily all favor.
1:31:03
I know some guys who vote for the Grand Wizard
1:31:04
I respected but I don't know that it's I mean,
1:31:10
yeah. Ventura, where are you on Jesse? Did you
1:31:15
ever see yourself voting for Jesse? You know,
1:31:18
I could see myself voting for Ventura because
1:31:21
I thought he was a great announcer. That might
1:31:24
be a blind spot in hindsight, looking at my list.
1:31:28
He might be the next one, if I were to... I will
1:31:31
say this, and I will agree with people who've
1:31:33
said this from being there at the time. Jesse
1:31:35
was as big a draw as Logan or close to it. for
1:31:38
some of those early Saturday night main event.
1:31:40
He was a big deal. And he was kind of part of
1:31:44
the draw. And kind of like Orndorf, you kind
1:31:47
of have to give Jesse his flowers for the drawing
1:31:49
on top of that arrow, right? And again, obviously
1:31:53
everything else - He might mess around and get
1:31:54
in because he was at 57 % last year. He might
1:31:57
not even need me. Yeah, I think there's a couple
1:32:01
names that I think. I think Jesse's going to
1:32:02
get in. I think Ted's going to get in on the
1:32:03
death bump. I think Gorilla might be close. I
1:32:07
mean, I do think we're gonna get some non -restless
1:32:09
this time around and I think that's kind of like
1:32:11
what they fucked around and put a couple like
1:32:13
at Salva There's such an interesting name to
1:32:14
throw in because like there is no definitive
1:32:17
I mean I get exactly why you put Sal Sal in because
1:32:20
people who don't know what happened is I think
1:32:22
it was his uh Was it his brother or his dad who
1:32:24
was controlling? I forget I always forget but
1:32:26
I don't think I think his dad I think so Sal
1:32:29
gets control I think like 2019 ish right of the
1:32:32
office and really the hot like you have to look
1:32:35
at this period now This period now is one of
1:32:39
the best periods of Mexican wrestling ever in
1:32:41
terms of drawing, which is kind of insane because
1:32:45
like, I mean, I'm a guy who's looked at the history
1:32:47
of Mexico and they're drawing some, like we're
1:32:50
drawing numbers or like, you know, you, you have
1:32:53
to kind of like compare them for like Hogan or
1:32:56
like, or like, you know, you got to break out,
1:32:58
like, you got to break out like Hogan on top.
1:33:00
stone cold on top to get the numbers and as much
1:33:03
as we would love to put in mystical twice and
1:33:05
maybe we could put in like even that's that idea
1:33:06
or something but you kind of have to like look
1:33:09
at everybody else around them and go okay i mean
1:33:11
and i do think there is there's definitely a
1:33:14
case to put salvador on the ballot right now
1:33:18
how much do we credit him and is that enough
1:33:22
to vote for him that's where I get stuck because
1:33:24
I feel like it's too it's too early in the process
1:33:28
for me to really narrow it down but it's a fascinating
1:33:31
conversation to have I think it's like if he
1:33:33
if he walked away now I think if he's the one
1:33:36
who's responsible for the business turnaround
1:33:38
from like 19 to now because it was down like
1:33:41
it was down like people were talking about CMLL
1:33:43
like it was a dead company well I mean like there
1:33:45
was a whole thing about like the idea was WWE
1:33:48
wanted to buy CMLL I think, I think the hang
1:33:52
up was like, I think seem all didn't want to
1:33:54
sell the building. I mean, they wanted that they
1:33:55
were fine. Sold the promotion. I didn't want
1:33:57
to sell the arena. And that was kind of like,
1:33:59
or like, so, I mean, yeah. Like in 2020, they
1:34:04
were one of the companies that were thinking
1:34:07
about selling to WWE. It was them and all Japan
1:34:09
and big Japan, but you know, things happen. Yeah.
1:34:14
I mean, again, I think it's a real interesting
1:34:16
kind of conversation around them and, uh, Did
1:34:21
you, by the way, like, so like, what was your
1:34:23
process, Rich, for like not voting in the other
1:34:26
regions? So I thought about voting in Mexico,
1:34:30
but I was like, yo, I feel like such a novice
1:34:33
and some of that stuff. I love Volodora Jr.,
1:34:36
L. Dandy's. great. Somebody that my homeboy Josh
1:34:39
from keeping it strong. So always tells me he's
1:34:42
amazing in the eighties. I just haven't seen
1:34:45
enough. Only person. Yeah. I mean, who, who were
1:34:50
any of us to doubt El Dandy? Yeah. Also, uh,
1:34:53
El Dandy is our buddy. Roy Lucier is chiropractor.
1:34:56
Oh, look at that. But, but I, uh, I thought I
1:35:00
would leave it up to the more, um, tapped in
1:35:03
Mexico region voters on that one. Yeah. It's
1:35:07
weird though like I was like two years ago I
1:35:09
would never voted for Mexico, but I think I've
1:35:11
spent like to the point where I ended up doing
1:35:12
the Espantos case I've done enough research in
1:35:15
Mexico at this point where I ended up doing the
1:35:17
ballot for all the Espantos right and Mexico's
1:35:20
a fascinating region to me now because we're
1:35:22
like kind of coming up to like you know it is
1:35:24
like who do we vote for and like and I think
1:35:28
for the most part Mexico's a region that's been
1:35:30
well served in terms of like most people who
1:35:33
should be in more or less I mean there's a couple
1:35:35
of like omissions I think and I think again like
1:35:38
I'm probably gonna end up voting in that region
1:35:40
I'm gonna end up voting with like Chicana, Los
1:35:42
Espantos, and probably Mascarita and it's gonna
1:35:45
suck because I want to vote for Rollo Junior
1:35:47
but I kind of have to vote for Mascarita. You're
1:35:50
also gonna look at a medical asesino like No,
1:35:54
medical as you know medical he's you know, no
1:35:56
medical hits and medical as you know was like
1:35:58
I was an auto inductee in 1996 what the one that
1:36:01
they're like that they're talking about is infirmero,
1:36:03
so because the way that infirmero, okay White
1:36:06
wave in mexico to the original white wave in
1:36:08
mexico was like oh santo santo medical as you
1:36:12
know the killer doctor and then the Infirmero
1:36:15
the nurse was the third guy and then like when
1:36:18
medical as you know dies of cancer he was like
1:36:20
basically He goes to texas. He's like a huge
1:36:23
star in texas and he gets sick He's like because
1:36:25
he's mexican, but he's also like a heavyweight.
1:36:27
He's a bigger kind of dude So like they love
1:36:29
them in states, but he got cancer and he died
1:36:31
very quickly and then like so They and they ended
1:36:34
up building like a second. Oh i got around like
1:36:36
i've seen I just remember which is wagner and
1:36:40
i don't like I just remember we actually bought
1:36:43
one of the books on mucha libre history You can
1:36:46
buy it actually on amazon. It's uh, one of the
1:36:48
excerpts in there is by our buddy arlando ruiz
1:36:52
They do a really great in -depth sort of like,
1:36:55
it's a history book, coffee book on the history
1:36:57
of pro wrestling in Mexico. And I think it's
1:37:00
graded. And, you know, you should also listen
1:37:02
to the Mexico case we did last year because we
1:37:05
went over so much in that one hour. Octagon,
1:37:09
we love you. We love you Octagon. We love Octagon.
1:37:12
Octagon es mi favorito. Like seriously, Octagon
1:37:16
and El Santo is my favorite tag team from that
1:37:18
period. Oh down. It's not my car. They're better
1:37:20
than this. See This is your mass. You don't see
1:37:24
this is the mass that he should wear. It doesn't
1:37:26
belong to you But uh, yeah, I love I love that.
1:37:31
Well, one of the matches we love to rich Well
1:37:33
a match that we love sharing with people like
1:37:34
there's this great match call. So we'll have
1:37:36
said He's one of the candidates working. He's
1:37:38
basically the vet in a match with like a couple
1:37:40
young boys including in some of the young boys
1:37:42
It's Misawa and El Dandy working as young boys
1:37:49
Yeah, I mean Yeah, so kamikaze masala and samurai
1:37:55
shiro Yes, yes. Yes. So very kind of interesting.
1:38:00
So and rest of the world Did you think about
1:38:02
it a little bit or like you are you like me or
1:38:03
like I'm looking at lessful world I'm not sure.
1:38:07
Um There's a guy named steve gray that I want
1:38:10
to look more into that. I heard a lot about um
1:38:14
Rest of the world for me is kind of a blind zone
1:38:17
though It's hard. I mean, like, I've actually
1:38:22
gone... I'm thinking of not voting in the rest
1:38:24
of the world. And so we will understand that,
1:38:26
like... I've probably talked to the guys who
1:38:29
do the research a lot to the point where I've
1:38:31
gone to the TVE archives to look for all Cetarre
1:38:35
matches and the newsreels. I've literally sat
1:38:38
there and looked through all the newsreels from
1:38:40
1946 or 1947, 1948 to find matches to say, hey,
1:38:45
we found this footage. And I'm thinking of not
1:38:48
voting in the rest of the world region because
1:38:50
I read them and I'm like... um and i'm like keeping
1:38:53
that like because it is a region where like you
1:38:55
really to me if you're gonna vote on this right
1:38:58
i feel like you have to it is your word that
1:39:02
you did the research right so yeah i i'm probably
1:39:06
gonna end up voting in the rest of the world
1:39:07
region but like i still feel like i need to spend
1:39:10
like a couple days just making sure i read all
1:39:12
the cases right by the way i'll mention this
1:39:15
like one of the things like i keep you follow
1:39:16
me on twitter I put this up and I have the hall
1:39:20
of fame reference which has cases that have been
1:39:23
prepared It has the ballot it has cases or say
1:39:26
like written up article videos matches for every
1:39:30
one of the canvas for the most Right now trying
1:39:32
to also find riches articles on moment Mercedes
1:39:35
Monet and JYD on there Yeah for the most part
1:39:38
like if I don't have something for somebody I'll
1:39:40
try to make sure that like people can bring me
1:39:43
cases. So I'll be like the burberry rooms like
1:39:45
that when arena case and like Like you mentioned
1:39:48
the case on June Byers. So I'll try to make sure
1:39:56
that people have this so they can read up and
1:39:57
make a comparison. I think when we talk about
1:40:00
June Byers because she's one of those rough house
1:40:02
Texas wrestlers, I think we made the comparison
1:40:05
of her to a bruiser Brody. Yeah, we compared
1:40:08
her to a bruiser because her style, she works
1:40:10
at the big Boston heel. I think one of the things,
1:40:14
and Rich, I don't know if you agree with me on
1:40:15
this, which is like one of my takes with the
1:40:17
all fame is always for this kind of thing where
1:40:19
it's all fame, it's about myths, it's about folk
1:40:22
heroes, it's about legends. One of the things
1:40:23
I always look at is if somebody's all famer,
1:40:26
they should inspire a conversation, right? So
1:40:29
like when we put these cases up, I'm kind of
1:40:31
like looking to see who's willing to make the
1:40:33
case and defend it. So there's a lot of passion
1:40:35
around someone. Like if a lot of people are making
1:40:37
the case for J .Y .D. and like everyone's like
1:40:39
passionate about making that case and we're talking
1:40:41
about it, there's a lot to talk about. that generally
1:40:43
suggests to me that it's a person who is worth
1:40:46
our time and likely Hall of Famer if that makes
1:40:49
sense. It's like Sputnik, and Sputnik being a
1:40:52
folk hero in Memphis and they have songs about
1:40:54
him and whatnot. So it's important, it meant
1:40:57
something. And I think that ultimately, that's
1:41:00
kind of how I view some of this stuff. To me
1:41:02
it's like, this is why I got mad about the Seth
1:41:04
Rollins thing. Nobody was making the case for
1:41:07
Seth Rollins, why is he back? Yeah. Oh, man.
1:41:12
Like, look, I may give crap to the British voters
1:41:15
who all want Big Daddy back, but at least they're
1:41:17
willing to do the research to talk about Big
1:41:19
Daddy. Could you imagine the Seth Rollins research,
1:41:22
what that would look like? You'd be watching
1:41:25
Hell in a Cell 2019 and terrible title reigns
1:41:30
and 20 -minute promos to start the show. I think
1:41:34
here's the thing with Seth. It'd be rough. Here's
1:41:37
the thing. I think Seth is going to go in eventually.
1:41:39
not as a standard, the shield will go in, right?
1:41:43
They will put the shield in and the shield will
1:41:47
go in like fast, right? And rightfully so. But
1:41:53
I still feel bad. I know we kind of skipped over,
1:41:57
he voted for Moxley and last year him only getting
1:42:00
through to 32 % and being one of the wrestlers
1:42:03
to win wrestler of the year twice. Yeah, it's
1:42:06
just stupid. mentioned that okay, so nobody noble
1:42:10
no one who's not in the hall has has more award
1:42:14
shares like there's nothing also happens in baseball
1:42:17
then like John Moxley's like his record is clear
1:42:20
now his match styles a little bit I know it's
1:42:23
a little bit Less than what people kind of like
1:42:26
like some people like the blog style I think
1:42:28
with box but to me God, I think that if you were
1:42:31
on the fence with box I mean this year should
1:42:34
have like taking you off the fence. I mean, I
1:42:35
don't know Like I was kind of pointing this out
1:42:38
to someone like essentially like the TV numbers
1:42:41
that a W is pulling it from the book like if
1:42:43
you go from the point that the death writers
1:42:45
rain started right to now like I think they've
1:42:50
like I mean like they're their numbers are the
1:42:54
biggest the best they've been on TV since 2034
1:42:56
nobody's doing that and they're doing that while
1:42:59
being simulcast on HBO they're like like I mean
1:43:02
nobody's putting up these numbers and really
1:43:04
it's all about mocks and he also did like the
1:43:07
big largest non -wwe house of century like in
1:43:11
like in texas and like he's helped like he helped
1:43:14
like i was i was making this argument like who
1:43:16
helped launch roman who helped get like oh yeah
1:43:20
anytime roman and sef's crowd reactions were
1:43:23
in trouble they would staple them to moxley yeah
1:43:26
and moxley who helped like get hand man over
1:43:28
who like rehab hangman who helped like with with
1:43:31
getting kenny who helped get kenny over to an
1:43:34
american audience right and i know kenny was
1:43:36
a big thing but like who's like the first big
1:43:38
rival that also kind of helped them stabilize
1:43:39
the force of aw because mox was the big star
1:43:42
coming in right and like he keeps doing this
1:43:44
where he keeps like he look at what osprey's
1:43:47
doing and like like how he like super put him
1:43:50
over in that match and how he helped him kind
1:43:52
of build that and like if you were on the fence
1:43:55
i mean like look at what like look at him during
1:43:57
the pocket look at that match with mark davis
1:44:00
Like, I mean, I don't, to me it's been a no brainer,
1:44:04
but I think the last two years make it even more
1:44:07
of a no brainer. It's just WWE champion, IWGP
1:44:10
champion, AW champion, the only person to do
1:44:13
that. It's a who time wrestler of the year. Uh,
1:44:16
more days of the AW championship than anybody.
1:44:20
Is the shield the best, the best WWE faction
1:44:23
essentially? Yeah. I mean, they're better than
1:44:27
all the ones that came after them for sure. like,
1:44:31
and he's the leader of that faction. So I mean,
1:44:33
like he's the leader of the faction. He's the
1:44:35
one who helped get like, I mean, so like, I don't,
1:44:38
I mean, like the thing with my, some people might
1:44:40
fight you on saying the bloodline is better than
1:44:42
the shield, but they'd be wrong. They'd be wrong.
1:44:45
I like, but the bloodline doesn't exist without
1:44:47
like. Yeah. I mean, um, so they'd get you in
1:44:52
the business part for sure. But like, just like
1:44:54
week to week match to match for the shield, six
1:44:57
mans were like revolutionary to. the style of
1:45:01
WWE television that was on at the time. People
1:45:04
didn't even like Trio's matches in WWE, they
1:45:07
still don't. No, what style they brought in there,
1:45:11
of course, we brought up the guys Sasuke and
1:45:14
them. They took that Trio style that you would
1:45:17
see in Dragon Gate and made it mainstream for
1:45:20
the American audience. And I do think that -
1:45:24
For Seth Rollins, that is the strongest candidate.
1:45:27
That is his strongest case. We're going to be
1:45:29
in the Hall of Famer. It's part of the shield.
1:45:32
But I do think that John Moxley himself has such
1:45:34
a strong case. It is so weird that he has such
1:45:36
a low percentage. It's just weird. I think the
1:45:39
thing, I think modern, I've said it. I think
1:45:42
modern, the vote is going to go to the sliders.
1:45:45
because the Steiner's I think the Steiner's have
1:45:47
done their penance to the voters and I think
1:45:49
like we see kind of signs that they're going
1:45:50
to get some of that. I'm kind of hoping that
1:45:52
the other person starts getting those votes too
1:45:54
is Mox. I mean I think Mox and Joe to me Mox
1:45:57
and Joe are no brain like like modern as long
1:46:00
as I have a vote I'm going to vote for and I
1:46:02
can I'm going to vote for Mox, Joe, and Mercedes
1:46:04
right? Why does it go? I just I just get a vote
1:46:07
for them and like everything else after that
1:46:10
I have to think about but like I don't have to
1:46:11
think about Mox I don't have to think about Mercedes
1:46:13
and I don't have to think about Joe. All three
1:46:17
of them will make the Hall of Fame cooler. I
1:46:22
can't have a Hall of Fame without these three
1:46:24
people. Absolutely. And I want to thank our guests
1:46:29
here, Tennessee and Rich Lada for coming on.
1:46:33
Ted, I'm going to let you plug your YouTube.
1:46:35
Bro, go ahead and plug your YouTube. It's been
1:46:37
a pleasure sitting here putting a little input.
1:46:39
But more importantly, just sitting here, sorting
1:46:41
out the history and all these candidates. and
1:46:43
all this and here y 'all dropping all this knowledge
1:46:45
um if you want to reach me or anything i'm on
1:46:48
blue sky at 10 -4 -10 again on youtube same name
1:46:51
10 -4 -10 absolutely ten i love having you here
1:46:57
brother all the time oh yeah of course good to
1:47:00
talk to you man yeah uh we have of course uh
1:47:05
one half of one nation radio i call him the ace
1:47:09
of one of uh social suplex because that's my
1:47:12
favorite show i'm sorry rest of y 'all but Much
1:47:14
love to Social Suplex, but Rich Lata, thank you
1:47:17
for coming here and sharing your ballet and sharing
1:47:20
your knowledge on pro wrestling, because a lot
1:47:22
of people don't know how much you know about
1:47:24
pro wrestling. Dude, you know so much. Hey, man,
1:47:27
I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I don't know
1:47:29
a lot, but what I do know I'm very passionate
1:47:31
about. And I love to explore and share the things
1:47:39
that I've come to love. And hopefully I can blend,
1:47:44
you know, just my sense of humor with everything,
1:47:47
but thanks for having me on doc. Uh, got to do
1:47:49
it again. And, um, yeah, man, just, uh, glad
1:47:53
to be here. Check me out. ROPW one nation radio.
1:47:56
Yeah, man. Um, of course, Arturo, man, we're,
1:48:01
we're on this journey again with the hall of
1:48:03
fame. And I love that we set the tone last year
1:48:06
with the 20, 25, so we don't have to go and do
1:48:07
all the work again. But you do all the work on
1:48:10
this. You make all these charts. You follow all
1:48:12
the, all these. This reference sheet is amazing.
1:48:15
Thank you. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going
1:48:18
to give a shout out to the power podcast. I think
1:48:20
that's been like really, really helpful to do
1:48:24
that. And a lot of people like, but in particular,
1:48:27
because him taking the missions, Ryan taking
1:48:28
the, the, uh, the, uh, the banner of doing cases
1:48:33
or anybody who doesn't have a case, right. Has
1:48:35
been like really cool and important and we get
1:48:37
to have this conversation. And I get to spend
1:48:40
a month doing Mexico research. Because I got
1:48:44
to put my money where my mouth is, right? And
1:48:45
I do think that there's some great cases this
1:48:47
year. People should go and listen to those. Because
1:48:51
even if it's like the Jeff Jarrett, is he really?
1:48:54
Should we talk about something else? Oh, man.
1:48:59
That Jeff Jarrett conversation was something.
1:49:01
You could also follow Numbers on Twitter. He
1:49:06
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if you're... I'm gonna promote my underwear go
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your game up step your underwear game up I'm
1:50:00
going to ask a question for everybody. Give me
1:50:03
two people that you want in the hall from the
1:50:06
ballot, if you had your druthers that get in,
1:50:08
and give me one person you'd like on the ballot.
1:50:15
My two are going to be JYD and Mercedes Monet.
1:50:19
I would like in, as far as someone that I would
1:50:22
like on the ballot, that's a little bit more
1:50:25
difficult because I don't know exactly everyone
1:50:27
who is orbiting that. eventually, we're gonna
1:50:33
have to talk about Will Ospreay in a few years,
1:50:35
aren't we? We had a preliminary conversation
1:50:39
about Will Ospreay, and my opinion with Will
1:50:41
Ospreay is, if you're a know -on Will Ospreay,
1:50:43
then I don't need to listen to your opinion.
1:50:45
Right. No, I'm sorry. We just don't need to have
1:50:50
this conversation. I'm gonna go with J .Y .D.,
1:50:54
but I'm gonna go with Samoa Joel as my second,
1:50:56
and I'm gonna say that like... I always use that.
1:50:59
I talk about the Savio Vega test, right? I always
1:51:02
say like, like when I'm comparing these candidates,
1:51:04
so they'd be on the ballot. Like I compare them
1:51:05
to like Savio Vega. People don't know Savio was
1:51:08
like a huge star in Puerto Rico. TNT. He also
1:51:11
has the run with Stone Cold and WWE was sniff
1:51:15
and run. He's been an agent. He's agenting in
1:51:18
TNA and like he's agenting to play now. And he's
1:51:21
also like, he was like a, like a rival when like
1:51:23
him and Muda were young boys. So to me, actually,
1:51:26
you know what? I think Savio should be on the
1:51:28
ballot at some point down the line, because I
1:51:30
do think that let's have a let's have a conversation
1:51:32
around them, because I do think he's a guy that,
1:51:35
you know, he I think he's he's got a case for
1:51:39
at least a conversation. Let's have that conversation.
1:51:43
Ten, you you got you got two people you want
1:51:45
on. OK. Not for sure, but I'm going three for
1:51:49
three with J .Y .D. and also on the ballot to
1:51:53
go in the briscoes. Just 20 years of excellence
1:51:56
as a tag team. Come on, it's no brainer. I respect
1:52:00
that. I respect that. Reach for the sky. Well,
1:52:04
love the briscoes, man. For me personally, we're
1:52:08
gonna go four for four on this. Grab them cakes.
1:52:11
Who that gonna beat that dog? JYD absolutely
1:52:15
belongs in the Hall of Fame. He's belonged in
1:52:18
the Hall of Fame. He's somebody that I believed
1:52:22
in, somebody that... you know, I go back and
1:52:24
watch some of his old stuff, the promos, and
1:52:28
you look at the joy of when like you see like
1:52:31
when I see the old heads of my family that watch
1:52:33
wrestling talk about JYD and that kind of joy
1:52:36
transfers into me even though like there's talk
1:52:38
about like memories of seeing him like fight
1:52:40
Ted DiBiase in the Mid -South Coliseum and all
1:52:43
that stuff. So I did I did have uncles that actually
1:52:45
watched that so uh JYD for me definitely and
1:52:49
the second guy that I absolutely wanted to Hall
1:52:51
of Fame, the great Sasuke. One of the most influential
1:52:56
wrestlers of all time, promoters. This man learned
1:53:00
Spanish because he fell in love with his wife
1:53:03
off of looks alone. And so he had to learn Spanish
1:53:06
to talk to her because, you know, he had to get
1:53:09
that Latino, that Latina, you know, and he brought
1:53:12
her to Japan. They're still married to this day,
1:53:14
to this day. Look at that. And one of the guys
1:53:18
that I want on the ballot and Arturo, we're keeping
1:53:22
it Puerto Rico. Ricky Banderas Ricky man Ricky's
1:53:27
such an interesting case Ricky Banderas I think
1:53:30
he's worthy of being on the ballot because he
1:53:33
has that run in Puerto Rico like he's drawing
1:53:36
he would drew like 10k 15k in Puerto Rico for
1:53:39
like He's drawing 15k in the day there and Ricky's
1:53:43
such a weird Ricky Banderas is a guy I've mentioned
1:53:45
him before and you were probably more familiar
1:53:47
he's like he was a And Ricky's like this guy
1:53:53
who who probably even more ten years earlier
1:53:56
ten years later is a huge star Because he's just
1:54:00
a star in the wrong area He was big in trip of
1:54:06
the odds like during that whole thing Yeah, but
1:54:08
imagine imagine Ricky Vandera is like now right?
1:54:12
Like yeah, I mean I was thinking of getting to
1:54:16
book Milt Muertes. If only Milt Muertes was the
1:54:19
same age as Penta? Yes. I think that Ricky Banderas
1:54:26
has such a solid case to be on the ballot that
1:54:31
I will love him there. And the runs, he has the
1:54:34
numbers, he has the matches, he has the longevity,
1:54:37
credibility. I think that Ricky Banderas would
1:54:42
absolutely be excellent to be on the ballot.
1:54:48
I think we should probably talk about the new
1:54:55
level as well at some point I will say and I
1:55:01
said this they're one they were one of the biggest
1:55:03
draws for them in that era really important team
1:55:06
and I think them getting a KW is gonna be like
1:55:09
really I don't think like I think like Loki and
1:55:12
I've mentioned this before I think TK is trying
1:55:14
to make trios a thing which I do think is really
1:55:17
smart because Trios particularly when you'd like
1:55:20
doing TV wrestling like they're doing it's like
1:55:23
it's really good because like it gives It gives
1:55:26
you a high -action match and tell these stories
1:55:28
and it's a really kind of like it I do think
1:55:32
it's fitting for the TV a little bit more than
1:55:34
the acting so like i'm really interested to see
1:55:36
where this goes because yeah it is a really good
1:55:39
thing you also get to use uh more of your names
1:55:42
on the card because not everybody can fight for
1:55:44
a singles title so putting like hangman bandito
1:55:48
brody and kofi and and austin and swerve in there
1:55:54
those are like those are huge names like kofi
1:55:57
like people don't understand how like kofi is
1:56:00
like a huge figure in wrestling to a lot of guys
1:56:03
a lot of guys i know here like in california
1:56:05
like that are on the way up how they look up
1:56:07
to kofi as like oh that's a legend to them yeah
1:56:11
that's like a guy they want to one of the reasons
1:56:14
i stopped i remember clearly one of the reasons
1:56:17
i stopped watching wwe regularly was when when
1:56:20
when brock buried kofi and i mean we're clearly
1:56:23
going like okay this is not for me and i remember
1:56:26
like if i remember like that's the premiere for
1:56:28
the smackdown and i think that's I kind of think
1:56:31
that's like uh I mean like I remember that like
1:56:34
you know just people put this investment into
1:56:38
it next and in this level next level new day
1:56:42
as a trio uh I like there's there's no way that
1:56:48
they don't have a case there's I mean I think
1:56:50
the problem the problem is going to be the problem
1:56:52
is going to be that like tag teams have a hard
1:56:55
time in the ballot right But I do think there's
1:56:59
no argument that they aren't ballot -worthy,
1:57:01
right? I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't
1:57:03
been on, because both of them were over 40. Yeah,
1:57:07
that's crazy. It's crazy to me that they haven't
1:57:10
been on, and maybe something where I need to
1:57:12
say to the guys, hey, I may need to send a note
1:57:14
today, like, hey, you should have these guys
1:57:17
on there, because I do think that they have kind
1:57:20
of... They actually know this. They definitely
1:57:23
have a case. And there's no argument that they
1:57:25
weren't one of the biggest draws for this period
1:57:27
for a very long time. There's a point where they're
1:57:29
building TVs around them because they're so big
1:57:31
and so huge for the audience, right? Absolutely.
1:57:36
Yeah, but Arturo, my man, this brings us to a
1:57:40
close here on our first round on this Hall of
1:57:44
Fame journey, where we did a pretty damn good
1:57:46
coverage of the modern and of Rich Lotta's Ballet.
1:57:51
Thank you guys for all coming here and listening
1:57:53
to us here. I appreciate it. Like, honestly,
1:57:56
from the bottom of my heart, I know like there's
1:57:58
a lot of ads on this show, but you know what
1:58:00
those ads mean? That means that this show is
1:58:04
getting on a new level. They're on a new level.
1:58:07
And I want to say thank you to the listeners
1:58:09
for listening to this. I want to say if you're
1:58:11
voting in this, please take our show. Listen
1:58:14
to our show. If you're still on like the teeter
1:58:16
-totter of who to vote for, listen to the show.
1:58:18
Maybe we convinced you. Maybe not. But I absolutely
1:58:21
love doing your show every year. And I love adding
1:58:24
Rich and Ten to the, you know, to this sort of
1:58:28
lore that we have doing the Hall of Fame coverage.
1:58:30
So thank you, Rich Lata. Thank you, Tennessee.
1:58:34
Thank you, Arturo, again, for doing all this
1:58:36
work, man. And to the listeners out there, we
1:58:39
got a lot more coming. We got a lot more guests
1:58:41
coming, a lot more big guests. So keep tuned.
1:58:45
Stay tuned in. Lock in and see. you next time.